General Debate 18 September 2009

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Akaroa

First again! Too early for constructive thought though!!
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September 18, 2009 7:53am
andrei

Who have been naughty boys then?

Who is going to clear the Augean stables of NZ Defense HQ of Helen’s legacy?
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September 18, 2009 7:58am
Neil

I watch much sadness the continuing battle between Bill English and Labour/Progressives over his housing problems.
I will not enter the detail of the debate but find it a little strange to see Bill’s name on the Clutha-Southland electoral roll,along with his wife.
I gather that your primary residence is where you spend most of your time. I know Bill spends most of his holidays in Dipton.
When I heard that some of Bill’s children are on the Wellington Central roll I was quite surprised.
Bill’s decision to “live in” Wellington should be applauded – it keeps the family together while air travel to the south is easy. The electorate is huge !!!!! However with airports in Dunedin,Invercargill and Queenstown it means he can cover the elctorate more easily.
I make this one comment though – how can Bill and Mary put down Dipton as their primary residence when they are living there only for about three months of the year.
It was inevitable that this matter would be discovered by political opponents.
As a strong supporter of National and Bill English I want to see this sorted out. I want a definition of “primary residence”.
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September 18, 2009 8:06am
Michaels

STUFF need to know that John Key’s office is in Huapai not Kumeu.
Where has the little thing of “facts” gone with the msm??
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September 18, 2009 8:22am
Cerium

Agreed Neil, I generally think Bill English is good value, and unfortunate to be the one that is the focus of both the housing allowances and primary residence as both issues have ticked away for ages. It was “convenient” to let things ride in the past but both have needed clarifying and tidying up.
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September 18, 2009 8:25am
radvad

Rush Limbaugh yesterday in response to the Dems, and specifically Jimmy Carter’s efforts, to characterise Obama’s opponents as raaaaaaacist. El Rushbo makes a good point.

***
“I have no quarrel with a president of any race. Obama is not black to me. He’s not half black, half white. He’s president of the United States, and as such, given his agenda, he poses a grave danger to the American I believe in. And that’s all that matters to me. I couldn’t care if he’s a hermaphrodite. I don’t care who he sleeps with. I don’t care where he eats. I don’t care what he eats. I don’t care how he drives. I don’t care about any of that. I don’t care about his haircut. I don’t care whether he’s getting gray. I don’t care about his tie. I don’t care about any of this. I care about his intent to remake this country into a country unlike any of us have ever seen. I have serious concerns about today’s media and their new standard, which is this: Any criticism of an African-American president’s policies or statements or misstatements is racist, and that’s it.

Therefore the question: Can this nation really have an African-American president? Or will the fact that we have an African-American president so paralyze politically correct people in the media that the natural scrutiny and process through which all of our presidents are put through and vetted do not occur because of the fear in the State-Controlled Media of themselves being called racist and the desire to be able to call everyone else racist. In other words, we have a blank slate. We have a president here who is not scrutinized, who is not examined. There is no attempt to be suspicious of power anymore. So is it possible that we really have an African-American president? Or does having an African-American president paralyze the process by which people with that kind of power in our representative republic are kept, quote, unquote, honest?”
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September 18, 2009 8:29am
billyborker

andrei (357) Vote: 2 1 Says:

September 18th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Who have been naughty boys then?

Who is going to clear the Augean stables of NZ Defense HQ of Helen’s legacy?

andrei, a more pertinent question would be “What the fuck is NZ doing sending troops to Afghanistan?”

What interests does NZ have in propping up the kleptocracy of Karzai?

Why are we supporting a government that insists on executions for simply deciding against myth as a basis for life?

Why are we supporting a government that thinks women are fourth class citizens?

Why are we engaged in an undeclared war against a popular nationalist movement?

Surely there are far better things we could use NZ troops for than aiding and abetting a bunch of criminals and thieves.
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September 18, 2009 8:32am
billyborker

radvad, to summarise, Rush Limbaugh said “I’m not a racist, but …” followed by “Some of my friends are black, but …”
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September 18, 2009 8:34am
billyborker

FUCK! I’ve just realised I’m at the wrong blog, I wanted kiwiblog, not khiwiblog. What have you done to Dhavid Fharrar?
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September 18, 2009 8:40am
TripeWryter

Neil:
If you look at any of the electoral rolls for the Pahiatua electorate during the 1960s you will find the name of Keith Jacka Holyoake, and his address was the farm out the back of Dannevirke that he owned, but to my knowledge hadn’t lived there, certainly since he became Opposition Leader. He lived in Wellington.
From memory, Mrs Holyoake registered as a voter in Wellington Central.
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September 18, 2009 8:42am
kaya

Ipredict should run with this one DPF – What do you reckon the stock would be worth at the end of day one, 93%?

Bring it on, this will keep the shocking decision by Key to ignore the votes of almost 1.5 million people firmly to the front of people’s minds. He should have acted when he had the chance.

“Mary Harris, Clerk of the House of Representatives, has received a proposal to promote an indicative referendum petition under the Citizens Initiated Referenda Act 1993 (the CIR Act).

Clerk of the House receives referendum proposal

The proposal is from Larry Baldock, and the wording of the question proposed to be put to voters in an indicative referendum is:

“Should Citizens Initiated Referenda seeking to repeal or amend a law be binding?”.

Under the CIR Act, the Clerk of the House is now inviting comment on this wording. Comment should focus on the criteria set out in section 10 of the CIR Act: the wording of the question should be such as to—

convey clearly the purpose and effect of the indicative referendum, and
ensure that only one of two answers may be given to the question.
Anyone wishing to comment must send three written copies to:

The Clerk of the House of Representatives

Parliament House

Parliament Buildings

Wellington”
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September 18, 2009 8:50am
CraigM

Obama has extended the hand of trust and friendship to Russia. By axing plans to build a missile defence system based in Eastern European countries that were previously part of the Soviet Union, he has either blinked first, or made an historical decision that will lead us towards a safer world.

Not unexpectedly the countries concerned are nervous. Trust in Mother Russia is not overly forthcoming amongst its former annexed states. Perhaps rightly, many will feel they were coerced by the West into joining NATO, promised protection from Russian retaliation and have now been left to their own devices. Obama thinks that his warships will be sufficient protection. Unless he plans to have a fleet permanently placed in strategic locations, they will be useless in the event of a surprise attack. Russia is yet to prove she has lost the will to control her former empire, as recently displayed for all to see in South Ossetia.

Obama claims the defence system was always intended to protect Eastern Europe from Iran, not Russia. In reversing the plan to build the missile defence system, is he saying that the USA no longer considers Iran to be a threat? That Iran doesn’t have and will never have long range missile capability? That if Iran did have such a capacity, he trusts them to never use it against NATO countries?

Surely that brings about an entirely new foreign policy strategy for the USA. Will economic sanctions against Iran now be lifted, if Iran is no longer seen by POTUS as a threat?

Only time will tell if it this calculated risk will lead to stronger economic and political ties with Moscow, or if Eastern Europe has been sold out. If it is to be the latter, then have we just seen the first seeds of a new cold war sown by Obama?
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September 18, 2009 8:55am
Cerium

“Should Citizens Initiated Referenda seeking to repeal or amend a law be binding?”

I probably would agree to the repeal part of that. But “amend” is too general and potentially too powerful. Would a referendum that proposes that the tax laws have an amendment that “all tax rates should be halved” get enough votes? Quite possibly, it would likely be popular, but in practice it could be a disaster.
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September 18, 2009 8:57am
kaya

“FORMER PSYCHIATRIC PATIENTS CAN SUE”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2875133/Former-psychiatric-patients-can-sue

Isn’t Sonja Cooper a great for helping all those people who were badly done by all those years ago? We need more people like Sonja to set examples so the rest of us can aspire to be so concerned for our fellow NZers.

“Wellington barrister Sonja Cooper received the most from legal aid funds for the final six months of last year, topping over $1,580,000 in payments for her psychiatric-related claims in the six month period.

For the 18 months up until the end of 2007 Ms Cooper received over $2.8 million, placing her in second place nationally behind major law firm Kensington Swan, whose total for the 18 months was over $3.6 million.”

Source:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0802/S00300.htm

“FIRM PUTS ABUSE COMPO AT 50 MILLION”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/2669312/Firm-puts-abuse-compo-at-50m

Now that we have anti smacking legislation a group of us should contact her and sue the government because we were beaten with canes and paddles in the 1960’s.
It’s only because we would want to say fairness and justice. (Insert on Tui billboard).
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September 18, 2009 9:00am
KiwiGreg

“Quite possibly, it would likely be popular, but in practice it could be a disaster”

Why? Are you really suggesting that if the majority of an electorate wanted reduced taxes they “shouldn’t be allowed” to have them?
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September 18, 2009 9:04am
wreck1080

I see the govt are bringing in new energy taxes next year. eg, I heard 7c increase on 1l petrol, and more expensive power bills.

By all rights, these should be fiscally neutral. Will our other taxes drop to compensate?

They had better, or the emissions taxes will be shown to be what they really are…. a tax grab.
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September 18, 2009 9:10am
Cerium

You know I didn’t say “reduced taxes”, I said “taxes halved”, if something like that was legally forced on a government it would have to have a massive impact, much of it negative.
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September 18, 2009 9:10am
tom hunter

AUGUST
– leftie trolls racer, Joe90, Borker and a couple of others are cockahoop over a advertisers boycott protest being pushed against Glen Beck and Fox
– leftie trolls are excited by US politics.

SEPTEMBER:
First, Glen Beck, Fox and blogger Gateway Pundit destroy Van Jones, former leader of the main group behind the Beck boycott. NY Post sticks it to the NYT over it’s failure to cover the developing story….

Although Abramson’s excuse was not an excuse, she proceeded to offer another one: “Mr. Jones was not a high-ranking official.”

Oh. And here I was, thinking that he was “one of Mr. Obama’s top advisers,” as I was told by, well, The Times, on its Caucus blog on Sept. 5. Confusing, confusing.

Only in Timesland can you be in charge of doling out $80 billion in contracts (“A Small White House Program” — The Times’ John M. Broder, on Sept. 6) and be less important than the Naked Cowboy……

…..Jones wasn’t an obscure functionary. There was a huge profile devoted to him in The New Yorker back in January. He was a “legendary figure” in the environmental movement, says The Washington Post. He got four breathless fanzine pages devoted to him in Times columnist Thomas Friedman’s bestselling book, “Hot, Flat and Crowded.” He was a rising cstar, maybe even a supercstar.

….and then cruelly taunt their senile, cross-town, sister

….Newspaper of record? The Times isn’t so much a newspaper as a clique of high school girls sending IMs to like-minded friends about their feuds and faves and raves and rants. OMFG you guys! It’s no more objective than Beck is.

Second, one of the largest protest marchs to Washington DC in history occurs, by people opposed to DC spendathon and the reaction is:
– There’s a protest? By little people?
– Racists!!, and…. and… stupid…..and mendacious…..and greedy……and RACISTSSSSSSS!!!!

Third, Glen Beck, Fox and “two kids from the cast of High School Musical 3” destroy ACORN. Jon Stewart notices this with,
The Audacity of Hos”

I’m a fake journalist and I’m embarrassed these guys scooped me.

Commentary options for racer, Joe90, Borker, et al:
A – Who’s Van Jones?. ACORN who? We don’t care about US politics.
B – Silence (also the US MSM option)
C – RACISTSSSSSS!!!!!…….choke, cough,…..splutter….. swallows bile….. RACISTSSSSS!!!!!
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September 18, 2009 9:17am
3-coil

While listening to Radio NZ National this morning (approx 8:10am), they interviewed Erima Henare who is the Maori Language Commissioner re the spelling of Wanganui.

Several times he stated that Wanganui ” have should have an H in front of the W” and even the interviewer Geriatric Geoff made the same idiotic claim.

So, there we have it folks: the new politically-correct spelling for poor old Wongers is to be “Hwanganui”.

Edit: hopefully that’s the end of the matter, and not just a couple of senile old duffers pissing in each others pockets (and inadvertently creating yet another future grievance/argument).
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September 18, 2009 9:18am
godruelf

Looks like the stuff poll on the H in Wanganui has been hacked. 85% in favour with 12000 responses. Guess it indicates the respect for democracy some of the yes vote have. Interesting comparison to the Herald poll on the same topic. 69% against change on just over 1000 responses.
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September 18, 2009 9:20am
kaya

I need an economist or financial whizz to help me with this one. I have asked this question a number of times and can’t get an answer from anyone and it shouldn’t be that hard I would have thought!

When we hear people talk about “the cost of borrowing” (for the country) and our national debt being forecast at 10 billion or whatever, who do we borrow the money from? Please, no technical jargon! In plain English can someone tell me where we borrow money from? It looks to me like every country in the world (apart from maybe China) has a huge debt so I wonder who is it all owed to?

Explanations in English and in less than 50 words receive a chocolate fhish. sic
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September 18, 2009 9:27am
Cerium

Online polls are the least reliable sort of polls, easily manipulated.

It would be interesting if Wanganui/Whanganui was polled after the findings of the Geographic Board were released – presuming some of the respondents would read it.
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September 18, 2009 9:29am
Fletch

Something fun for today, I think…

Has anyone else seen LAMEBOOK?

What it is, is that people send in screenshots of the stupid or amusing things that they see from/to friends on facebook or other social networking sites. Some gross stuff on there though, so be careful.

The 1st post yesterday was some girl changing her status to ‘Single’ and a guy replying underneath, ‘woo, back in the market ey? Wanna go out tonight?’ or something similar, and the girl replying that actually her boyfriend had died in a crash months ago but she was only changing her status now. Embarrassing to say the least.
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September 18, 2009 9:31am
Rakaia George

Well now that we’ve established that there is a “right” and a “wrong” spelling of names…every “Smyth” in the country should be changing the spelling of their name to “Smith” right?
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September 18, 2009 9:33am
Fletch

Kaya, I think we borrow from other countries? Not sure, but a good question. I’m no financial whiz either.
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September 18, 2009 9:36am
philu

“..Second, one of the largest protest marchs to Washington DC in history occurs,.”

reality check there tom..

there were 60-75,000 marchers..

and many of the signs held etc..were clear evidence of the inherent racism of many of those marchers..

(yell out if you need links/evidence..eh..?.glad to help shed the light for you..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 18, 2009 9:36am
Rakaia George

Oh and I’d like to show my support for the protesters at Picton on the news last night – the report was just washing over me, but a correctly-placed apostrophe on a placard is such an attention-grabbing rarity…
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September 18, 2009 9:43am
Cerium

Cooking apes? This is food for thought – literally.

The unrivalled success of the human species is down to our mastery of flame and our use of it to transform raw food into cooked. Ours is a species built on hot dinners, not cold plants and berries. For our ancestors, marriages of men and women were ancient pacts built around food, not sex.

The advent of cooking led to a restructuring of society and, in particular, liberated men from the chore of chewing but chained women to the stove.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/biology_evolution/article6837386.ece
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September 18, 2009 9:44am
Redbaiter

Dicky- I’ve posted twice on Not PC in an attempt to respond to your post to me, but Chief Censor Mr. Cresswell deleted it both times..

http://pc.blogspot.com/2009/09/down-to-doctors-maori-megatron-and.html#c1668438738621004223

I’m amazed that “Not PC” has such a fragile hold on the minds of its readers that they are apparently threatened by my rantings.

….and I guess you are so so lucky to have Mr. Cresswell there, an all powerful colossus of ‘liberty’, standing astride this site, and protecting you from exposure to words that might offend your precious Libertarian sensibilities.

Its enough to make Cubans and North Koreans envious.

Anyway, here it is again-

“The Nats are rapidly proving themselves the moral equal of Helen Clark.”

Dicky, I don’t know why the hell you would think it necessary to lecture readers on the duplicity and feebleness of the National party.

..and it just makes me want to throw everything in the air at your constant references to them as examples of the “right wing”.

For fucks fucking sake..!!! They are not right wing. They are totally dominated by thinking that only differs in the slightest degree to the mixture of geriatric Marxist 1940’s and Progressive 60’s academic thinking that dominates at Labour.

The only strategy the Nationals could think of to get themselves into power was to demonize Helen Klark and then make themselves the Labour Party with a different leader.

They cannot present any real opposition to socialism because they do not have the ideas to articulate or the ability to articulate them if they had them.

Here’s some weekend homework Dicky. Write on a piece of paper 5000 times- The National Party and the Republican Party and the Conservative Party (that’s in the UK Dicky) are left wing not right wing political entities.

The wider struggle is cultural Dicky, and it boils down to repairing the damage done to the right wing image by the left and their useful idiots (like you).

Even more confusing for you Dicky, and an idea you might like to read up on, is that the small government individual liberty right wing is not way out there, its actually mainstream, and was pretty close to the status quo before you and your Gramascian/ Progressive comrades started your long march.

Check out the man in the street nature of the current protests in the US Dicky, for proof of this assertion. They’re not radicals, they’re just the long suffering middle class finally demonstrating that they’ve had it up to here with the left’s cultural and political domination.

But let’s leave that for another session. I wouldn’t want to overburden your young and obviously impressionable mind. For now Dicky, let’s just aim for understanding of the fact that the National party cannot, except by the most clueless idiot, ever be held up as an example of a right wing political force.

Maybe you should just go here-

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/crusaderrabbit/8756592179139203826/

and find out how those outside the Libertarian bunker view that Nats.

BTW, In case I’m not able to get back in time for next weeks lesson, the homework assignment will be to write 5000 times- “The Progressives and the Socialists are the real enemies of liberty”

Do it, or its a damn good caning when I do get back. (even if you do, in your Libertarian immersion, enjoy it)
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September 18, 2009 9:45am
TripeWryter

And, am I alone in wondering if Air Vice-Marshal Peter Stockwel RNZAF is getting a bit desperate in his justification for the bringing home of the soldiers who were photographed with a bomb that had a message addresed to the Taleban?

I heard him quoted on the radio as saying one of the reasons was they might have given information to the ‘enemy’, and that by their being identified they and their families could be targeted (by …?)

If Air Marshal Stockwell is that worried about protecting the identity of his people in a war zone, well and good. But he needs to go further — such as, banning ALL photographs of Defence people there. Like in Navy Today, the RNZN’s monthly magazine, and Army News, the Army’s biweekly newspaper. No more supplied photos to the NZ media.
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September 18, 2009 9:47am
Fletch

Oh good grief – anyone seen this?

GENEVA — British rock group Duran Duran and heavy metal band Scorpions are among 55 world celebrities who have joined in recording a song to draw attention to the global warming crisis, organisers said on Monday.

The song is part of a mass media campaign on the threats of climate change organised by the Geneva-based Global Humanitarian Forum, headed by former UN secretary general Kofi Annan.

The song entitled “Beds’r Burning”, which was originally recorded by the Australian group Midnight Oil in the 1980s, can be downloaded from the Internet for free and will be presented to the public at a launch in Paris on October 1.

“If we do not stop the (greenhouse gas) emissions today, global warming will be still be with us in 40 to 50 years,” warned Walter Fust, director of the Forum, at a press conference in Geneva.

The media campaign featuring the song is aimed at putting pressure on world leaders to reach an agreement on tackling climate change at a UN-sponsored conference in Copenhagen in December.

Some of the other popular artists who add their voices to the anti-global warming song include French ‘Piaf’ actress Marion Cotillard, Senegalese star Youssou N’dour, Irish singer/composer Bob Geldorf, Chinese singer Khalil Fong, and even a Nobel peace laureate, South African archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Idiots..
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September 18, 2009 9:55am
Rakaia George

@Fletch. *facepalm*
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September 18, 2009 10:05am
3-coil

Fletch (9:55am) – ironic really, when you consider that it was probably Duran Duran’s excessive use of hairspray since the 80’s that caused the ozone hole…

The “jet-set” lifestyle is only for the slebs, not the plebs.
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September 18, 2009 10:07am
Jack5

New topic for a minute if I may…

Now that Canterbury Engineering students have abandoned their annual Undie 500 run to Dunedin, can we expect Otago’s tubby cops, Mayor Stadium Chin, and the university vice-chancellors to show the same toughness with batons, riot helmets, arrest, and home invasions, to the criminal patched gangs?

We’ll see flying saucers land at Momona first.

Why would kids go to Otago for university when the town that survives on them cheers on otherwise under-employed cops to bash them around? Dunedin treats students like thugs, and gang thugs like tourists.
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September 18, 2009 10:13am
side show bob

I see Shonkey has been investing, one of those investments is a dairy cow to go with his racing horse. At least he knows a good investment when he sees one, just a shame some fool wants to tax the arse off the poor thing. Daily news Taranaki.
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September 18, 2009 10:14am
Repton

I probably would agree to the repeal part of that. But “amend” is too general and potentially too powerful.

No Right Turn has a post on this, where he points out (amongst other things) that “repeal” is not as simple as you might think. For instance, IANAL but I think if the recent referendum had been “Should the new S59 be repealed?”, and if it had been binding, then a “yes” vote would have simply removed that bit of law from the books. With no special wording around children, they would have been covered by general assault laws and all smacking/etc would have been a crime. Which means, essentially, you need the ability to amend laws if it’s going to be useful.

So NRT suggests that if we are to have binding referenda, the referenda should all be of the form: “Here is a new law: […] Should it be passed?”

Which, for one, would remove any claims of ambiguity, and for two, might help increase the civics knowledge of the general populace.

Would a referendum that proposes that the tax laws have an amendment that “all tax rates should be halved” get enough votes? Quite possibly, it would likely be popular, but in practice it could be a disaster.

I think you have to trust the people to think for themselves. There would certainly be a big campaign for a “no” vote, highlighting the reduction in the tax base and the consequences of that (reduced or removed public healthcare, schools would change high compulsory fees, university rates would go up, etc etc). I don’t think people would blindly thing “Woo, more money!” and vote for it without considering the consequences.
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September 18, 2009 10:16am
philu

dpf..i’ve linked to/commented on yr nbr piece on english..

“..(my problem with farrars’ piece is that he is ignoring the elephant in the room..

the fact that the very eligiblity of english ..to even qualify for ten years of ‘away-from-home-allowance is studiously ignored by farrar..

and given that what disqualifies from eligiblity .. english has in spades..

i am puzzled by farrars’ non-mention of theses facts..

namely:

if you spend most of your time in wellington..

if your wife lives with you in wellington..

if your wife works in wellington..

if your children live with you in wellington..

if your children go to school in wellington..

these all disqualify you from any out-of-town allowance..

and these facts all pertain to bill english..

this is the ’story’ in this story…

and is what will see the end of english as finance minister..

(which the far-right in national will delight over..but that’s another story..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/commentwhoardavid-farrar-it-was-within-the-rules-rightwinger-farrar-opines-on-the-personal-gougingtroughing-by-our-finance-minister/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 18, 2009 10:29am
nz capitalist

It was nice to meet some of you chaps, especially Mr Farrar and Mr Slater, at the Blogger Drinkies last night at Galbraith’s in Auckland; I found the evening splendid with quite a lot of intelligent things being said by the libertarians (naturally) and was impressed some the Tories were able to grasp them…

We must do it again some time; Thursday 1st perhaps?
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September 18, 2009 10:33am
Cerium

Jack5: “Dunedin treats students like thugs, and gang thugs like tourists.”

Some students are thugs, the problem is they haven’t been treated as thugs enough in the past. And that has encourage other thugs to join the fray. All four who have appeared in court so far were employed people (didn’t say if they were also students or not). Dunedin in the weekend was deliberately pre-organised crap.
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September 18, 2009 10:37am
Fletch

According to the news today, students are putting on another festival called “Hammered in Hamner” (and no I am not kidding).

http://www.ucsa.org.nz/clubs/clubevent/hammered-in-hanmer/

More riots?
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September 18, 2009 11:15am
bearhunter

Fletch, if they go to Hamner, I can only hope that they are all held there for detox and not released until they are straight and sober. I imagine six to eight weeks of intensive therapy and medication should cure them of their thirsts…
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September 18, 2009 11:27am
Cerium

They weren’t riots in Dunedin, just disorder for the hell of it.

The Hamner exercise is supposedly all controlled. It just depends on whether there outside opportunists wanting to create some mayhem. As bearhunter says, Hamner could be an appropriate destination (if they still have the alcohol unit there).

Doesn’t seem like the binge drink mentality is going to change soon. Many young people seem proud of wasting themselves.
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September 18, 2009 11:30am
billyborker

OI!, you bunch of oiks, its Hanmer.
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September 18, 2009 11:51am
Fletch

lol, you’re right billy.
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September 18, 2009 12:10pm
Cerium

That’s easily fixed billy, ah no, hang on, it’s not a Maori name.
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September 18, 2009 12:13pm
nickb

How much taxpayer money is this parasite going to cost the NZ taxpayer over the course of her life?

A better solution would have been to dtop her in the middle of the Tasman on a raft, and tell her to paddle back to NZ.
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September 18, 2009 12:18pm
village idiot

But Rodney Hide, who has publicly stated on numerous occasions his support for STV, voted against it, and thereby ensured its defeat. This is astonishingly hypocritical, especially since Rodney Hide has justified his implacable opposition to having Maori seats on Council, by claiming his ardent support for STV instead.

Sue Kedgley

Rodney? A hypocrite? Again?
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September 18, 2009 12:19pm
Cerium

The ODT reports quite a range of dipsticks charged from the Dunedin mayhem, 62 in all:

27 from Otago University
8 from Canterbury University
3 from Lincoln University
3 from Otago Polytechnic
2 from Telford Rural Polytechnic
1 from Victoria University

2 high school students from Dunedin
1 high school student from Napier

15 non-students including:
6 unemployed
2 builders
1 trade assistant, shearer, mill hand, landscape gardener, forestry worker and retailer

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/74549/high-school-kids-charged-over-undie
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September 18, 2009 1:21pm
virtualmark

Kaya, I’ll attempt at answering your question on who the Government borrows money from … but I doubt it can be done in less than 50 words.

The Government raises its debt by issuing bills and bonds (roughly speaking … bills run for one year or less, bonds for more than one year) to four main groups:
1. The New Zealand public. These are called Kiwi Bonds, and any NZ resident can buy them, in multiples of $1,000 up to a max of $500,000.
2. Big financial institutions. Typically by selling Government bonds, in multiples of $1,000,000. Often brought by mutual funds (think superannuation funds) which might be based here or be from overseas. May sometimes be broken into smaller parcels and then on-sold to the public.
3. Offshore retail investors. These are Government bonds that are sold to individual investors who live in other countries outside New Zealand (ie Japanese housewives, Belgian dentists etc). Often go by catchy names like EuroKiwi bonds, Uridashi bonds etc.
4. Other “Governments”. What are called “sovereign wealth funds”, which are Government-backed investment funds say in places like the Middle East or Asia. We have a “sovereign wealth fund”, but we call it the “Cullen fund”. Similar funds in other countries will buy NZ Govt bonds.

As far as I know … at the moment the Government is mainly drawing from Option 2 on that list. I don’t believe there’s a lot of Kiwi bonds being issued nowadays. And I don’t think there’s been any big Eurokiwi or Uridashi issues for a while.

The actual part of Government that manages this debt programme is the Treasury’s Debt Management Office. They’ve got a website at http://www.nzdmo.govt.nz
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September 18, 2009 1:37pm
pentwig

You must go to frogblog and see the touched up picture of Sue.

She has surely employed Herr Clarks PR agent.
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September 18, 2009 1:39pm
BlackMoss

Kaya, Re Debt:

I’m no whiz but I always assume govts borrown off large organisations/banks/investment funds overseas. When the govt issues government bonds they are effectively borrowing money. Anyone can buy those bonds though.

(It’s a bit much asking for facts on a forum like this isn’t it…?)
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September 18, 2009 1:43pm
freethinker

Cerium/Repton
About 15 years ago Califonia did a similar thing with property taxes – proposition 13 – there were claims of no police/firemen/schools etc – it didn’t happen the state just found ways of living within the budget and redistributing the tax base. Califonia from memory is the 7th largest economy in the world so if its possible there what the problem with something similar in NZ. Before any such referendum however there would be widescale public discussion so govt & any other interested parties would have their chance to put their case so even if taxes were halved and public services reduced as a result the electorate would know this possibility and by voting for the reduction implicitly accept the consequences – a far better system than a few pollies deciding what is best and jo public suffering the consequences which is why they will shovel shit uphill to stop any transfer of power to the electors. John Key may have done NZ a big favour in presenting the citizens with the opportunity to be heard – an unintedend consequence – and the possibilty of removal from office if he is seen to be against majority opinion.
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September 18, 2009 1:44pm
side show bob

Pentwig, must get her photographers name, could do wonders for me, might even turn out half presentable.

Speaking of Melons, at the moment Fox news is running a special on hope valley, Fresno Ca. The taps to the food bowl of the US have been turn off and thousands are been forced off the land. I guess this is what happens when far left green freaks get hold of the reins of power, all for a two inch smelt (fish). Whats really funny is these idiots who live in the cities, no surprise there, are effectively killing off their own food supply. Shit the states are going down the shit hole.
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September 18, 2009 2:06pm
CraigM

“AP NewsBreak: Nuke agency says Iran can make bomb”

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9AP714G0&show_article=1

Continuing on from my thoughts posted this morning (8.55), this low-profile article appears on the same day POTUS makes his announcement. Surely this makes the decison to drop the missile shield even less likely to have been done for any reason other than to appease Russia.

Iran must still be seen by the US as a serious threat, so did POTUS lie when giving the reasons for dropping the planned missile shield?

Has POTUS just given NATO allies the shaft and handed them a future of intimidation by Russia?

If the missile shield really was (partly even) there to defend against possible attacks from Iran, why shelve it now, when Iran is clearly capable of making a nuke and a long way towards enabling a delivery system?

This just doesn’t add up.
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September 18, 2009 3:16pm
CraigM

Ok , last post on this for today…THIS STINKS. POTUS wasn’t even smart enough to wait a few days.

“Obama helps strengthen General Electric-Putin ties”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obama-helps-strengthen-General-Electric-Putin-ties-59644627.html

Eastern Europe has been sold out to the benefit of Obama’s friends.

All those who believed Obama when he said he was for CHANGE, start queuing here with your apologies.

He is for CHANGE alright, changing the flow of money into other pockets.

HOW EMBARRASSING IT MUST BE TO HAVE EVER SUPPORTED OBAMA OR EVEN BELIEVED A WORD THAT CAME OUT OBAMA’S MOUTH. YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME.
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September 18, 2009 3:31pm
Gerrit

Wonder who the lucky person will be in New Zealand that gets this lovely new neighbour.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/one-woman-crime-wave-deported-on-charter-jet-20090918-fuma.html
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September 18, 2009 3:37pm
Repton

I don’t believe there’s a lot of Kiwi bonds being issued nowadays.

That’s because the interest rate is crap — maxes out at 3%pa over 2 years, whereas you can easily find banks that will pay 4% over short term deposits, or 5% over 2 years.

Hmm. Imagine if the government offered competitive interest rates (e.g. 4-5%pa) but only to Kiwisaver funds. The government gets to borrow money and New Zealanders benefit through their retirement savings, instead of foreign banks through their profits..
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September 18, 2009 3:41pm
Jack5

New topic for a minute if I may…

Australia deports one-woman stirrer to NZ (link below).

Did NZ start something by foisting H1 on New York?

The link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10598174
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September 18, 2009 3:50pm
Cerium

Craig: what’s so bad about Star Wars that never worked properly and never would becoming down to earth defence?
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September 18, 2009 3:53pm
tom hunter

POTUS wasn’t even smart enough to wait a few days.

Indeed. Can’t wait to talk to my Polish inlaws in Chicago after they overwhelming voted for this boofhead.

My first question to them will be if they think anybody in the Obama administration realised the significance of September 17, 2009. My inlaws certainly do, and I’ll bet Vlad-the-impaler does as well. What would be really funny is if turns out to have been arranged with Russia in advance as a diplomatic overture, with the Russians picking the date!

Smartest. President. Evah
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September 18, 2009 4:20pm
virtualmark

CraigM, re the US decision to drop (or, more accurately, defer) the BMD system in the Czech republic and Poland …

This is all but certainly a decision connected to the P5+1 deadline for Iran to come to the table on its nuclear plans. It seems clear the US and Europeans would like to impose sanctions on gasoline if Iran doesn’t deal before the deadline expires on the 25th. It seems clear that the Russians in particular would subvert those sanctions by allowing gasoline imports from the Caucasus and ex-Soviet central Asian republics that Russia can pull strings with. It seems likely that an understanding has been reached between the US and Russia along the lines of “You’ll observe the sanctions, and we’ll call off our plans to build a BMD system in Eastern Europe”.

To the Czechs and Poles the BMD system represented US feet on the ground in their territory, reinforcing their confidence that the US would be a guarantor of their security if the Russians were to get toey. It’s a symbolic thing really though – no one’s expecting Russia to get too toey with the Poles or the Czechs – but given the recent renewed cosiness between Germany & Russia I can see why the Poles in particular might feel a bit nervy right now. History suggests that when Russia & Germany get friendly they try to re-draw the maps of the Central European plain.

Meanwhile the Russians are irked that the US is interfering in Russia’s near abroad, where Russia has a natural strategic interest. The Russians have no real time for Iran (remember Russia invaded Iran during WWII), but to Russia Iran is a useful way to pull the US’s tail and remind them that Russia too is a major power who needs to be respected.

So you’d have to think that some sort of understanding has been reached between the US and Russia where they, ahem, help each other with their respective problems. But that’s not to say the Americans can’t extend some other sort of security guarantee to the Czechs and Poles that doesn’t involve BMD systems. And that’s not to say that the American’s can’t re-do the BMD plan later if the Russian’s don’t fulfill their side of the bargain.

I’d say the timing of this announcement is all tied to the September 25th deadline set by the P5+1.

As for whether Obama was smart enough … I’d say that Obama and his advisors are plenty smart enough to make good decisions. Very few people have managed to get to the US presidency by being dumb and having dumb advisors. George W excepted. Obama’s team have far more information to hand than we can ever hope to see from public sources. I’d suggest it’s a bit hasty to say that he’s made a dumb decision here.
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September 18, 2009 4:23pm
virtualmark

CraigM … re the question of whether Iran can make a nuclear bomb …

I suspect the key word here is “bomb”. The first step for Iran is to see if they can make a nuclear device. That is, something that can reach a critical mass and go bang … but is probably the size of a small truck, takes days to assemble, and isn’t by any means a useable weapon. This seems to be where North Korea is at the moment.

Much harder to believe that the Iranian’s can leap past that step and go straight to having a robust reliable deliverable weapon that can be easily mated to a delivery system. That’s a whole order of magnitude more sophistication.

And then there’s the question of just how much nuclear material Iran has at its disposal. If they build a device, make it go bang, then run around saying how great they are … does that mean they can’t make another bang for several years?
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September 18, 2009 4:33pm
CraigM

Cerium – I pretty sure the missile defence system planned was land based.

Virtual – From my earlier posts you may see I was asking more questions than offering opinions. As the day went on and different media (no one seems to have all the pieces) started reporting different aspects of this issue.

My comment around him not being smart was of course sarcastic and aimed at the fact that different aspects of this issue are coming from various sources and making him appear to have been rather ‘light’ with his explanation re Iran.

I’m not convinced about his advisors political smarts though, they are a very strange group and my vote is still out on most of them.

I do believe he has compromised with Russia and if is as honest as he wants us to believe, why not tell the truth and face the consequences. He (and Putin) has used Eastren Europe as a bargaining chip. Add in the issue of his friends at GE and this smells, whether it is smart or not.

I guess we await the announcement of at least one major joint Russia/ GE project in the near future.
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September 18, 2009 4:44pm
Cerium

The only way of knowing how it works with Russia is if Obama stands up to them when he needs to. There is no way of knowing how communications are going behind the scenes, but I think it is likely to be better than “looking into Putin’s eyes”.
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September 18, 2009 4:50pm
CraigM

Virtualmark – posts are crossing.

I would be very worried about Iarn being able to make one go bang. Very possible the ‘test’ would be over Israel. Once you make one go bang, who is going to take the risk you don’t have more waiting?

I’m hoping that Iran do turn up for talks. I love the place and have friends there, but like them I don’t trust the current government.

This is serious politics Obama is playing. Countries and lives are at risk and I really don’t think the MSM has put it together yet, or they are playing it down.
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September 18, 2009 4:50pm
tom hunter

And that’s not to say that the American’s can’t re-do the BMD plan later if the Russian’s don’t fulfill their side of the bargain.

The Secretary of Defense has already announced that a more modern system could be implemented in 2015. They may not have wanted to announce that at all, but are already having to deal with criticism of the decision.

It’s a symbolic thing really though….

Yes it is. No one ever believed the huffing and puffing of the Russians several years ago when the system started to get implemented, because everyone knew these systems could be easily overwhelmed by the sheer number of missiles Russia could employ. When the claim was made that this all about Iran even the Russians could see that, although they pretended otherwise.

But if one is going to talk about the importance of symbology then the last thing Obama should have done in this case is make the announcement on September 17. That’s very symbolic to Poles! It’s actually the little things like this, the Brown-DVD stupidity, the “Restart” hilarity, and so forth, that tell us that this administration has some very strange blindspots of ignorance.

The symbology intended may have been “smart diplomacy”, but will be interpreted by both Russia and Iran as allowing them to move full speed ahead: the Iranians with their missiles and nuclear weapons; the Russians with their continuing political, economic, and diplomatic intimidation of their European neighbours. In any case the important player in sanctions is not Russia but China.

Very few people have managed to get to the US presidency by being dumb and having dumb advisors. George W excepted.

Oh please. Every president has made at least one monumentally dumb foreign policy decision in office, sometimes only seen as such in hindsight but still. Love the usual slam on Bush. Thought you’d go for Reagan and Iran/Contra.
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September 18, 2009 4:52pm
Steve

pentwig @ 1.39
“You must go to frogblog and see the touched up picture of Sue.”

Yeah it’s that Dihydrogen monoxide that does it for her.
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September 18, 2009 5:04pm
philu

isn’t john keys’ committment to the invasion of afghanistan..

..looking more and more of a ‘bad idea/move’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 18, 2009 5:04pm
philu

hunter said:..

“..Oh please. Every president has made at least one monumentally dumb foreign policy decision in office, sometimes only seen as such in hindsight but still..”

yes..but ‘the shrub’..made so many…

about the only thing he can claim any brownie points for..

is the large increase in aid to africa..during his term..

everything else has been a fucken unmitigated/blood-drenched disaster…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 18, 2009 5:08pm
racer1

“Steve
pentwig @ 1.39
“You must go to frogblog and see the touched up picture of Sue.”

Yeah it’s that Dihydrogen monoxide that does it for her.”

Lucky National wasn’t successful in banning it then huh?
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September 18, 2009 5:10pm
virtualmark

tom hunter, craigm … it seems that Robert Gates is very lukewarm on the GMD system that’s in place in Alaska & California and which Rumsfield said would go into Poland. There’s a view that he didn’t need a lot of prompting to pull the plug on the European installation. And yes, there’s a view that newer systems with more reliable capability will still be installed somewhere in Europe in the next 5 years.

tom hunter … re the September 17th date, I very much doubt that the US was unaware of that history – how many people do you think the US has in its embassy in Warsaw? Don’t you think they’d have pointed out the symbolism in the date? Perhaps the date of the announcement though has been driven by other things?

CraigM … as for whether the Iranians will ever try to nuke Israel. For my part I just don’t see that happening. States tend to be led by highly rational actors, and I don’t think Iran is any exception. But certainly, a highly rational actor could well think that his best strategy could be to appear quite irrational. When Ahmadinejad talks about wiping Israel off the map he’s arguably playing mainly to his domestic audience. And to sow enough seeds of doubt in the minds of other states that they feel they can’t dismiss him and must deal with him. But you can’t tell me that Ahmadinejad doesn’t know full well that one nuke at Israel means total annihilation for Iran. He might look crazy, but if truly was crazy then he wouldn’t be where he is.

Remember, the main motivation of authoritarian regimes like Iran’s (and North Korea’s) is regime protection. Ranting about Israel … that’s mainly to build a domestic following. Unaffordable nuclear programmes … that’s about driving patriotism (the West are agin us!) and laying down a marker that means the major powers have to deal with you and have to think twice before trying to topple you.
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September 18, 2009 5:28pm
virtualmark

Tom hunter … “Oh please. Every president has made at least one monumentally dumb foreign policy decision in office, sometimes only seen as such in hindsight but still. Love the usual slam on Bush. Thought you’d go for Reagan and Iran/Contra.”

Sure, most Presidents make a howler or two. Often times though what looks like a howler is, with analysis, the best option from a bad hand. I don’t see Iran/Contra as Reagan per se making a howler. Reagan’s overall intent seemed the best option from a bad hand, and Ollie North and a few others seemed to take the ball and run with it a little too far.

And no, I’m not a leftie trying to bag those God-fearing Republicans. I’m not a partisan leftie or rightie – I see both as having their strengths and weaknesses, both being equally capable of stuffing things up (just stuffing different things up), and more than anything else I believe that it doesn’t matter what political leaning you have, 90% of what a President/PM/Government end up doing is forced on them with little ability to be “left” or “right”.

But George W … that man managed to make howlers with no redeeming features. It’s to our lasting regret that he didn’t get his first choice of job (being Baseball Commissioner). Because the guy was a pillock at his second choice job.
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September 18, 2009 5:35pm
virtualmark

tom hunter … as a simple example of my view that “Most of what looks like a howler is just having to play the best option from a bad hand” … if you were President of the United States then what would you do about Iran? What do you think is the best option?

Because I can’t see any good options. Lots of options sure. Just no good ones.
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September 18, 2009 5:38pm
Steve

racer1,
Dihydrogen monoxide.
National were not successful banning it? did they try?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
The point I make is, all is not what it seems.
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September 18, 2009 6:18pm
Banana Llama

I do believe the American Government had made a number of deals with the Soviets over the decades in regards to missle defense systems and Nato in eastern Europe, the missile defense shield was in violation of those agreements, probably a good thing the pin was pulled otherwise other agreements could be considered no longer valid.

Eg: post cold war borders.
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September 18, 2009 6:30pm
Steve

Quiet now isn’t it? Public Servants have finished work and left the buildings.
Tomorrow and Sunday the normal people will be here. General Debate could be quite different, with comments from the workers who finally get some computer time. That means those boring shits filling in the day will not have a Public Servant computer to use.
Fuck, if they use too much at home they will have to pay: OMG my kids used up the monthly 1GB and now I gotta pay to use the net!
Friday at 6pm is like a switch turned off.

racer1, stick the dihydrogen monoxide where the global warming sun don’t shine. Dihydrogen monoxide enima is a good brain cleanser
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September 18, 2009 7:10pm
Hurf Durf

Obama claims the defence system was always intended to protect Eastern Europe from Iran, not Russia. In reversing the plan to build the missile defence system, is he saying that the USA no longer considers Iran to be a threat? That Iran doesn’t have and will never have long range missile capability? That if Iran did have such a capacity, he trusts them to never use it against NATO countries?

Surely that brings about an entirely new foreign policy strategy for the USA. Will economic sanctions against Iran now be lifted, if Iran is no longer seen by POTUS as a threat?

I hadn’t thought of it like that, Tom. Well caught. Things are definitely hotting up: the mysterious missing Russian ship supposedly carrying long-range anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, Netanyahu’s secret trip to the Kremlin, talks in October where Russia has already said they won’t institute sections and Iran won’t slow its nuclear development, Sarkozy saying Iran is developing a nuclear arsenal and former Israeli ministers saying that Israel will likely attack Iran by the end of the year if harsher sanctions aren’t put on Tehran. Concerning times indeed.

Obama got thoroughly condemned by Lech Walesa, though considering that he helped bring down the USSR it won’t affect Barry that much.
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September 18, 2009 7:13pm
Paul G. Buchanan

virtualmark has pretty much covered the geopolitical issues involved in the BMD deferment, quite succinctly in fact. I would simply add that the US needs Russia as leverage on Iran more than the Russians need the US as leverage on Europe (since Russia is the primary nuclear supplier to Iran and a major arms exporter to the theocracy). This quid pro quo is risky because the Russians might renege, but barring some major turn of events they would have to be desperate and irrational to do so. There is of course a cost savings to the Obama administration in deferring the deployment during these tight economic times, and the announcement does not preclude the Czechs and Poles from procuring BMD from third party proxies or other states (say, Israel). No one ever really believed the fiction that the deal was about defending Poland and the Czech Republic from Iran–or defending the rest of Europe from Iran either–so this is all about diplomatic maneuver and symbolism rather than a real defense against Iranian (or for that matter Russian) aggression.

It will give ammunition to the rabid US right, though, which could have negative consequences for the Obama administration when dealing with security conservatives in the general electorate at a time when it is already besieged by a disloyal ultra-nationalist-fundamentalist coalition. The fact that Gates signed off on it provides a bit of cover on that score.l

For the analytically inclined, you have to love these geostrategic chess games.
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September 18, 2009 7:52pm
virtualmark

Hurf Durf … the Europe-based interceptors were intended to protect the USA from Iran. The particular system is a mid-course interceptor that strikes the missile before it starts to descend on to its target.

The reason the Poles and Czechs were keen to have it installed in their countries is that it represented a firm visible symbol of the USA’s security guarantee, particularly guaranteeing added protection from the Russians. Which is precisely why the Russians have objected so hard about it.

Personally I see dropping the BMD system in Eastern Europe suggests the USA is confident the Iranians won’t have an ICBM before 2015. Sure, the Iranians have medium range missiles derived from Scud technology (which in turn is basically an updated German V2 from WWII). But this move by the Americans suggests they know the Iranians won’t have a multi-stage ICBM with a reliable warhead any time soon.

Also interesting to comment on the Arctic Sea (that mysterious missing Russian ship). Obviously something very dubious has been going on there, and none of the explanations to date (which have been provided by the Russians) stack up. Unlikely though that it was shipping long-range anti-aircraft missiles to Iran. If Russia wanted to send that sort of ordnance to Iran it’d be much much easier to send it direct to Iran by air or by ground. Why put it on a ship which will travel through seas you don’t control, and when your “enemies” have the most powerful navy in the world and can basically intercept any ship they like? Also, the Arctic Sea’s class of ship has had numerous reliability problems … why entrust such a valuable cargo to a dodgy ship?
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September 18, 2009 8:04pm
Steve

Deadliest Catch huh?
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September 18, 2009 8:21pm
nickb

Kaya if you or labrator are around I had a look at the uni library for that book by Edward Griggin. no luck, I couldnt find it. Did see that book called “The History of Money” that one of you were reading I think, I was going to get it out but the size of it put me off haha, dont have much time on my hands at the present
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September 18, 2009 8:41pm
Viking2

The Joys of Living in Australia
The Joys of Living in Australia or New Zealand or wherever

“The pharaoh collected a large amount of taxes that he used for large government projects such as building pyramids and temples. These taxes also supported the wages of skilled workers, scribes, artisans, and military personnel, as well as financing large projects done by peasants during times of flood.”
History Link

Sound familiar?

The ancient Egyptians were quite fond of a bit of slavery too.

You know slavery, it’s where you work and work and work for someone else but you don’t get to enjoy the fruits of your labour.

Well, if Pharaohs Kevin Rudd and Ken Henry have their way with the upcoming tax stitch-up, chances are you’ll be pushed even further into servitude.

Already, the average Australian worker (that’s right, the average) has more than 20% of his or her salary confiscated by the government before it even hits their bank account.

That’s just the beginning. Think about it this way though. If you work a five-day week, every Monday, the work you do is to pay off the Federal government’s income tax demand.

Come Tuesday and you have to work half the day to pay off your superannuation guarantee. That’s money which is guaranteed to be taken from you, but without any guarantee you’ll get it back.

The rest of Tuesday and into Wednesday is taken up with paying off the GST and other levies and surcharges you find yourself paying for every day.

By the time you get to the close of business on Wednesday you should have paid off a raft of other taxes, such as rates, vehicle registration, medicare levy, medicare surcharge (or private healthcare), payroll tax, and don’t forget all the company taxes you ultimately pay for through higher prices for products and services.

So, as you roll into work on Thursday morning, it looks as though you’re about to earn some cash for yourself…

Not so fast bucko. If you’ve got a mortgage, chances are that’s another 20-30% of your income going straight to banks, just to keep a roof over your head. Now, all that by my calculations brings us up to – about right now on a Friday morning.

That means you’ve got the rest of the day to work for yourself. But as if it couldn’t get much worse there’s one more hurdle for you – inflation.

By the time you finish work this week and get paid next week (if you’re lucky) or next month, the dollars that you worked 40 hours for will actually be worth less to you than the dollars you worked for last month. Your average salary of $62,000 at the start of the year, adjusted for inflation will only be worth about $60,000 by the end of the year.

You need a 3% pay rise just to get back to breakeven. Talk about running just to stand still.

So, at about the time of the two o’clock smoko this afternoon, the money you earn for the rest of the day is yours to earn and spend as you please.

But don’t worry, if that doesn’t sound like much, because you’ve always got the credit card to fall back on. Out of interest, the total purchases on credit cards in July by Australians was $19.1 billion.

Look, play around with those numbers as much as you like. Chances are I’m not far off the mark.

And what does the mainstream press have to say about any of this? Nothing of course. The best they can come up with is rubbish like, “Rudd helped you hang onto your job.”

No! No he didn’t. It was your money. You helped yourself hold on to your job.

That was the money you worked for which was confiscated by the government and then divvied out to its favourite chums, are handed back as a bribe.

Rudd didn’t help anyone. Remember, if you were lucky enough to get the $900 bribe, it actually cost you around $4,200 from your taxes to fund the Fairy Ruddfather’s spending.

Only, you haven’t really paid for it yet, but you will. Because the government has just borrowed the money and will demand that you pay it back. Even though you’ve gotten nothing for it, and didn’t even ask to go into debt.

But in reality, the Fairy Ruddfather is just one of the Pharaohs. His co-conspirator is the real danger man.

That’s Treasury Secretary, Ken Henry. Without exaggeration, this man is one of the biggest threats to the individual rights and freedoms of all Australians.

The man is a menace.

Maybe you think that’s a bit harsh. After all, he is a public servant. And people aren’t supposed to criticize public servants. Doubtless he would tell everyone he could be earning much more in the private sector but he’s forsaken that to “do his bit” for society.

Let me explain what I mean when I label this man as the biggest threat to individual rights and freedom…

Reading the story in yesterday’s Australian Financial Review (AFR), your editor was stunned by two things. The reporting of the story, and the content.

To quote from the article:

“Dr Henry has invited about 20 representatives of key business and tax groups to attend a meeting in Sydney on October 15 to give feedback on reform directions to him and panel colleagues Heather Ridout and Greg Smith.”

The article goes on to quote from the letter of invitation:

“This consultation session provides an opportunity for you to provide feedback on the refore directions that the review panel is considering. The views of stakeholders are important to the review panel in ensuring that the possible reforms take business circumstances into account and are sustainable.”

He’s also planning on meeting with other accounting lobby groups.

Anything ridiculous strike you about consulting accountants about tax proposals? It’s like asking a butcher if we should all become vegetarians. Tax groups are hardly likely to recommend abolishing taxes, or even making the tax code simpler.

It’s in their interest for it to be as complicated as possible.

But more than that, where’s our invitation? Where’s your invitation? I mean it’s you that contributes every dollar to tax revenue whether it’s direct or indirect.

Of course, you’ll be told “this is much too complicated to trouble you with. You just get along and concentrate on working, that’s a good citizen!”

It got us thinking. Have you ever watched someone talk to someone who’s disabled in a wheelchair? In many cases they’ll either talk to them slowly like a six year-old, as though loss of leg usage has someone affected their brain power, or they’ll completely ignore them and talk to the carer instead.

Well, reading that story in the AFR yesterday it seems like the pollies view the humble taxpayer as nothing more than a cripple in a wheelchair…

Just go to the Treasury website and take a look at the submissions. There’s thousands of them.

Special interest groups as far as the eye can see. Each backed by research and PhDs and tax experts by the dozen.

Granted, there are also many submissions from individuals. Self funded retirees scared out of their wits at the prospect of Pharaoh Rudd and Henry swiping their life savings outrights or by stealth.

Here’s a sample:

“I am writing to you about my growing concerns with the direction being taken by ‘Australian’s Future Tax System Review’ and the possible harmful impact on my retirement savings.”
Carol Anderson

“I am greatly concerned at reports that the Henry Tax Review is considering recommendations to remove or change the dividend imputation scheme.”
Jan Attwood

“I am shocked to hear that government is considering the abolition of dividend franking credits. At this time when elderly self-funded retirees such as ourselves, are having difficulties meeting costs with reduced dividends and low interest rates; to also lose franking credits, would drive many of us to having to rely on the pension, and to give up private health insurance.”
Jocelyn Banks

“I am concerned that the proposed possible changes will negatively affect dividend income I was planning to live on.”
Elizabeth Every

Those are just four individual submissions. Like most of those from individuals they barely make it onto a second page. And like most of them we can guarantee anything they have to say will be ignored.

Thankfully the Tax Review panel received submissions like the 55 pages from the likes of the Australian Bankers Association.

Or the Australian Social Inclusion Board which laments, “Varied treatment of income, as well as exemptions, deductions and concessions available in the existing system provide opportunities for people to pay less than their share of tax.”

That would involve the government deciding what the “share of tax” would be we assume. Or maybe the Australian Social Inclusion Board could quantify what the “share” should be.

Then there’s the fund managers of course, AXA have chimed in with the unsurprising declaration that, “AXA believes that in order to achieve Australia’s desired objectives in relation to self funded retirement, an increase in the Superannuation Guarantee is required.”

And we shouldn’t forget the trade unions who will do all they can to ensure you don’t get to keep your hard earned wages:

“This Review is ideally placed to consider a series of taxation measures to ensure that the top income earners in our community, who benefited from neo liberalism over the last three decades (while their share of total income doubled) are those in the forefront of new progressive taxation policies.”

You’ve got to give the unions some credit. They may as well have quoted Wolfie Smith, “come the glorious revolution they’ll be the first against the wall!”

For ‘progressive taxation’ read, “give us what you’ve earned.”

It’s nothing more than theft of your property (income). Can we really believe that Pharaoh Henry will turn his back on the ‘progressive’ taxationists and declare taxation to be immoral?

Of course not. Pharaoh Henry has carte blanche re-form (that’s right re-form, not reform) the tax system. It will be a re-forming that ensures individual tax burdens are increased while special interest groups and lobby groups are thrown a few bones to keep them quiet.

Individuals will find a greater tax burden either directly or indirectly, and a destruction of their retirement savings.

Increased public spending and borrowing by the government in your name with the demand that you pay for is nothing short of coercive rule by a bunch of megalomaniacal bunch of bureaucrats.

We’ll wait to see what Pharaoh Henry has to say when his report is published, but we can guarantee you’re not going to like it.
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September 18, 2009 8:49pm
reid

nick re: Griffin, you should be able to find it on the net. I got a free pdf quite a few years ago.
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September 18, 2009 9:50pm
kaya

Black Moss and Virtualmark – thanks for your answers, helps a bit. I just wonder with all the deficits where is the money going to!
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September 18, 2009 10:18pm
kaya

Viking2 – interesting points. but I reckon the same shit is happening here and almost everywhere else in the west. Government is growing everywhere and need paid for. Redbaiter pointed it out the other day, I have said it and so have many others, we have less productive people carrying more and more deadwood. It has to be paid for somehow.
I remember laughing in history classes hearing about how they used to have things like window taxes and wig taxes in England in the 17th century. Same shit these days, just a bit more sophisticated – right up until enough people decide enough’s is enough.
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September 18, 2009 10:27pm
big bruv

Kaya

Did you see the report that came out of the USA today that said that the government wastes 50c of every dollar they take in tax.
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September 18, 2009 10:33pm
nickb

Cool cheers reid might look into it!
I think I was reading that earlier bruv, deadweight loss of taxation is massive, especially when you create a massive beauracratic welfare agency within IRD under the guise of giving some back to you in the form of WFF…
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September 18, 2009 10:49pm
kaya

bb – hardly surprising, Governments both local and central around the world are creating work for themselves and for others. It is no conspiracy, it is just the way it is. We don’t have enough real jobs anymore. Govt and council people have to try and justify what they do so they create work and ultimately more jobs, just to maintain the beast. Departments and jobs that are meaningless are created at random.

It’s exactly the same as cancer, it has to grow to survive. Just how long we wait before dragging it back down is one of those questions no one knows the answer to. I would say it is relatively close. Nobody minds a bit of regulation and governance but we are close to the point of ridiculous.
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September 18, 2009 11:12pm
Fred

Kaya

If you are interested in more; http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/ and the crash course http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse and anything by Niall Fergusson
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September 19, 2009 8:37am
kaya

Thanks Fred.
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September 19, 2009 6:25pm

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