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September 3, 2009 12:09pm by David Farrar

General Debate 3 September 2009

Better late than never.

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Ryan Sproull

I’m never better than late, myself.
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September 3, 2009 12:15pm
Simon

A game for all the family.

So you want to be in charge of monetary policy.

http://www.frbsf.org/education/activities/chairman/
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September 3, 2009 12:16pm
Auberon

I’m so, so glad that Cactus has fronted up so quickly and removed herself from Gotcha. Not a good match.
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September 3, 2009 12:23pm
mickysavage

Michael Laws really should take a deep breath and get a grip on himself. His bullying of 12 year old kids for having a different view on Whanganui’s name is appalling. He really should get anger management.

And his banning of gang patches is another extraordinary breach of the NZ Bill of rights. It is nanny state using a baseball bat.

Where are all the supporters of freedom?
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September 3, 2009 12:34pm
kaya

Former PM Mike Moore has written an excellent, well reasoned piece on the whole “anti smacking” bollocks.

http://tinyurl.com/pdd6bn

No matter who or what you support, that is a well written piece that defines the whole issue succinctly.
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September 3, 2009 12:40pm
tvb

I see David Bain wants the weapon the killed his family – back. Why I wonder???? If it were me I would be happy for the Police to keep this killing instrument that slaughtered my whole family. Is he going to mount it on the wall – as a monument – to what??? Spooky.
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September 3, 2009 12:42pm
Leg Break

Never a good look when a mayor’s policies are driven by increasing his radio ratings.
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September 3, 2009 12:48pm
philu

mr farrar…seeing as the oecd child poverty stats show how ‘abysmal’ our results are..

(and as such are a total indictment of labour..

..but that was then..and this is now..)

d’ya thnk a discussion on what national should do about this should be instigated..?

‘cos really..!..we can’t just let it/this continue..eh..?…

(here is something for some perspective..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/when-i-give-food-to-the-poor-they-call-me-a-saint-when-i-ask-why-the-poor-have-no-food-they-call-me-a-communist%e2%80%9d/

“..Is anyone else here having trouble with the fact that we are even having this conversation?

Is anyone else having trouble believing this topic is really controversial?

I have been asked to talk about the ethical dimension of health care.

Here’s one way to frame such a discussion:

If an infant is born to poor parents, would we be more ethical to give medicine to that child so he or she does not die prematurely of preventable diseases..

.. or would we be more ethical if we let the child die screaming in his or her parent’s arms .. so we can keep more of our money?

Or, let’s say someone who worked for Enron, and now is penniless, contracted bone cancer.

I’ve been asked to discuss whether we are more ethical if we provide such people medicine that lessens their pain.

Or would we be more ethical to let them scream through the night in unbearable agony so we can pay lower taxes?”

I can’t believe I am standing today in a Christian church defending the proposition that we should lessen the suffering of those who cannot afford health care..

.. in an economic system that often treats the poor as prey for the rich.

I cannot believe there are Christians around this nation who are shouting that message down .. and waving guns in the air because they don’t want to hear it.

But I learned along time ago that churches are strange places;..

.. charity is fine, but speaking of justice is heresy in many churches.

The late Brazilian bishop Dom Hélder Câmara said it well:..

.. “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist.”

Too often today in the United States, if you talk about helping the poor, they call you Christian..

.. but if you actually try to do something to help the poor..

.. they call you a socialist..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 12:58pm
nickb

Have you got a link Auberon?
Gtocha is disappoiting IMO, links just go nowhere and the sites formatting’s all fucked.
Always enjoyed WO and Cactus, but then theres the others..
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September 3, 2009 12:59pm
Auberon

Here you go nickb

http://www.asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/
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September 3, 2009 1:00pm
nickb

Phil why does the government take the fall for this?
Where is your condemnation of useless parents shirking their responsibilities and committing child abuse?
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September 3, 2009 1:00pm
philu

we are talking about widespread child poverty..near the worst stats in the oecd..

(nz..a ‘great place to bring up children’..yeah right..!..)

again..?..’child’..’poverty’..have you ‘got’ that..?..

and..

“..Phil why does the government take the fall for this?..”

i can’t believe you asked that..

if not the govt of the day…who..?

and the countries with the best/top results in caring for their children..?

(with us..at the bottom..)

are the hgh-tax/strong social support scandanavian countries..

go figure..!

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 1:07pm
dime

does anyone know how “willie and JT” keep their jobs on radio live? the ratings cant be good. im not a violent person, but as soon as i hear willie jackson i want to hit something
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September 3, 2009 1:11pm
Simon

Fair pts philu the challenge is diverting money from the middle class to the real needy.

Good luck with that.
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September 3, 2009 1:17pm
Cerium

Yeah, Kaya, Mike Moore sums it up quite well. There are not many positives out of the whole debacle, and less winners.
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September 3, 2009 1:18pm
Cerium

This deserves more prominence:

The late Brazilian bishop Dom Hélder Câmara said it well:

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist.”
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September 3, 2009 1:21pm
Simon

Philu what are your favorite vegan meals? I bet if you ran with your 5 favorites they would cost bugger all to prepare.

Philu’s 5 favorite vegan dishes a must for every beneficiary family.
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September 3, 2009 1:22pm
philu

here you are simon..

more vegan recipies than you can poke a stick at..

http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan+recipies

(and yes..it is a cheaper lifestyle..

but as the recipies show..you don’t lose in taste/flavour..

you gain..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 1:34pm
nickb

Oh phil, can you answer me this then, I’m a bit confused.
Why, after nearly 40 years of universal benefit/DPB system, are children still in poverty, (I wouldnt mind wagering moreso than when universal welfare was implemented under the Kirk government?)

And, have you ever stopped to consider the moral hazards implicit in the DPB? Why, if the government will support a single parent, do useless dropkick fathers (and mothers) have any incentive to provide for their kids in the case of separation? None phil, none at all. This is the main reason I’d bet child poverty is made worse by universal welfare.

And by implication your posts suggests that welfare in NZ is not generous enough. Why then, after NZ taxpayers throwing billions and billions of dollars at the problem over the last few years, has the problem not gone away? As Not PC stated once, why not pause to consider that South Auckland hs the most government in NZ? Massive welfare dependency, WINZ offices everywhere. And there is more crime, drug use, and child abuse there than anywhere else in NZ.

And anyway phil, the DPB can’t be too harsh if it allows you a big enough stipend to start your own website and purchase illegal drugs (and sit around all day)
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September 3, 2009 1:39pm
philu

“..Why, after nearly 40 years of universal benefit/DPB system, are children still in poverty,.”

it started going really bad..driving over-crowding/health/poverty-issues when richardson/shipley gutted the benefit system in 1990..

(and during those nine years of national..they increased the minimum wage by 87 cents..while costs just rose and rose..

(and to the eternal shame of labour..they also turned their backs on the poorest..

and did nothing to undo that driving of sole-parents etc…into poverty..)

..hence yr double-whammy..of the children of poverty on state support that is clearly inadequate..

…and the children of poverty of the working poor..thru that supression of low-wage workers’ incomes..))

“..this is the main reason I’d bet child poverty is made worse by universal welfare..”

that assertion is clearly disproven by the ‘universal welfare’ states/countries being those that are number one etc..

..in caring for their children..

“..And by implication your posts suggests that welfare in NZ is not generous enough. Why then, after NZ taxpayers throwing billions and billions of dollars at the problem over the last few years, has the problem not gone away?..”

(because..that welfare has mainly gone o the middle class..those on state support/the poorest don’t ‘qualify for that ‘entitlement’..remember..?..

once again..to labours’ shame..

they created two classes of families..the ‘deserving’..and the ‘undeserving’..))

i’ll ignore yr ad hominem at the end..

and ask you..as a third year law student..

..what your formulsa wd be to remove us from the bottom of the child poverty tables..?

..or do you favor doing nothing..?

..or does yr ideology dictate you favor gutting the social welfare system even more..?

..and thus making child poverty/suffering even worse..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 1:57pm
Brian Smaller

OK – lets here the howls of outrage from people who think water boarding was the greatest crime of the last epoch when they read this report:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133214

Apparently is is not gay to rape male prisoners in Islamic law – unless they get aroused – then you are in the shit, so to speak.
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September 3, 2009 2:05pm
Ryan Sproull

OK – lets here the howls of outrage from people who think water boarding was the greatest crime of the last epoch when they read this report:

Wait. Who?
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September 3, 2009 2:09pm
MikeNZ

I don’t agree with Mike Moore in that he assumes it is ok to make a parent break the law if they give their kid a smack on the bum.
A smack on the bum is never assault.
I also disagree with him that it is ok to write law you are allowing people to break.
the political bollocks of key and goff well neither of them have done us proud have they?
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September 3, 2009 2:12pm
philu

btw..that ‘red alert’ site both sucks and blows..

mallard deems any questions on labours’ record to be ‘personal attacks’..and just deletes them..

so..every comment there…has been approved by mallard..

( i was there five minutes..and had my first comments deleted/was warned/and had a ‘no further correspondance will be entered into’…

..whoar..!

(and aside from anything else..is this what we pay him all that money to do..?..(four grand a week..?..isn’t it..?..)

..to be a fucken blog censor..?

..what a sad joke..!

and red alert is as much a waste of time..as the rightwing blogs that censor to that degree are..

..and does labour no favours..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 2:14pm
philu

“..A smack on the bum is never assault..”

can i come around and smack you on the bum there..?..mikenz..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 2:17pm
RightNow

It’s high time benefits cease being paid as money, but switched to vouchers or similar. Something that can’t be spent on tobacco, alcohol, gambling and fast food. Nobody is going to suffer from it, in fact thousands of children will benefit from it.
Sure there’ll be some transition problems, and no doubt some black market activity, but those issues can be overcome if addressed properly. Perhaps to avoid the black market it could require the benefit recipient to present photo ID when using the vouchers (or perhaps a form of debit card) so they are not transferable.
Just think of the issues it can solve, such as dodgy men shacking up with welfare mothers to leech off their benefits. Children actually getting food instead of abuse from parents who’ve drunk and smoked and gambled away the whole week’s benefit in one day. And hopefully it would shame some of the career bludgers into getting a proper job so they could actually go and drink at the pub.
And phlu would either have to find a job that pays real money to buy his pot with, or give up the weed.
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September 3, 2009 2:19pm
Steve

Phool,
Have you seen a sign? Do you think it may happen to you here?
One can only wish
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September 3, 2009 2:19pm
philu

any rebirth of labour..

will have to include the shedding of incuubi such as mallard..

he still thinks eveything is the same as before..

that he can just trot out the same old..same old..

imho..these child poverty stats should have everyone from the last labour government on their knees..

..offering mea culpas in supplication/begging fucking forgiveness/promising to change/do better..

instead we get mallard arrogantly strutting around the place…

..he hasn’t got a fucken clue..!

and is really..just a spondre..

a little man with a censors’ pencil..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 2:27pm
side show bob

PhilU, just don’t get it do you. For the utopian socialist state to prosper and grow one needs a increasing “needy” population. My God man just imagine the chaos if there was sufficient wealth for all to take care of themselves. No big government (gasp), No nanny state (gasp), No WINZ (gasp, gasp) No DPB (gasp,gasp,gasp). While you may be well intentioned surly even your good self can see our present system is a crock of shit, sadly for the good people of NZ we have been cursed with politicians that are love the system and are loath to let go of the reins least they become irrelevant.
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September 3, 2009 2:39pm
Repton

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/2831670/World-faces-more-severe-pandemics

Patients in developing countries often cannot finish a course of antibiotics because there are not enough, or they cannot afford them.

That has led to an increase in antibiotic-resistant infections, he said.

[…]

“This unjust distribution of research resources could come back to haunt us all, rich and poor alike, if we enter an era of extreme drug resistance where antibiotics are no longer effective.”

Development of vaccines, accessibility to medicines, development of new medicines, building healthcare infrastructure in poor countries, increasing the size of the global healthcare workforce, poverty alleviation and improvement of living conditions in poor countries, were all solutions to the current situation, Dr Selgelid said.

In the “long run” the cost of these initiatives will “result in enormous savings because allowing disease to run rampant costs plenty of money too”.
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September 3, 2009 2:43pm
pentwig

Phoolu

Calm down man…..
Mallard is only expressing his freedom of choice…..

… have another toke….
……and be grateful Mr Farrar doesn’t do the same ……

……phoo eh….???
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September 3, 2009 2:44pm
philu

ssb..you advocate the cutting/doing away with state support..

how will that help us move from this shameful position..?

how have we fallen so far..?

from leading the world on these issues..

to now being one of the worst..?

and i ask you the same questions i asked nckb..(he must be in class..he hasn’t replied yet..)

namely..what do you advocate we do to protect/care for our children better than we are now..?

especially when you consider that the countries that are number one..

..are ones with high-tax/universal social support/no poverty..

..and all of that formula is an anathema to you..?

..is it not..?

if so..what is yr formula..?

(btw..this is not a left/right/labour/national issue..

..this is something we all should be deeply shocked about..

..and vowing to turn it around..

with an urgent discussion on exactly ‘how?’..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 2:47pm
Simon

Good links Philu.

Eat a lot of Korean food and until about the early 1970s the average Korean had no meat or dairy in their diets so they know how to cook vegetables, rice etc very well. Always have I guess. Tastes better than mashed spuds anyway. Somewhat changed now of course with the rise incomes etc.
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September 3, 2009 2:47pm
Brian Smaller

Simon – I would never touch vegetables and rice. Mr Muliaga stated at the inquiry over his wife’s death that they only ate vegetable soup and rice (apart from the odd treat of taro) – and look what it did to her.
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September 3, 2009 3:11pm
RightNow

phlu: “namely..what do you advocate we do to protect/care for our children better than we are now..?”

Replace benefits with vouchers instead of cash, so they can’t be used for tobacco, alcohol, gambling and fast food. Might be a problem for you until your own crops are ready, but overall think of the benefits. Kids getting clothes and food instead of their parents smoking and drinking and blowing it on the pokies. Young women not having kids for the income, loser males not latching on to them for their benefit money. Clearly there is some major political reason this isn’t already done in NZ. I can see why Labour would oppose it, but not National. Perhaps I’ll suggest it to Wodders.
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September 3, 2009 3:25pm
backster

From Mike MOORE’s article “We now have unaccountable, well-funded commissions on just about everything. These commissions pump out recommendations that are always costly and seek law changes.

NEVER a truer word spoken. The National Government had an opportunity to get rid of these useless aggregation of former Socialist MPS and Party Hacks and allowed them to continue to be a burden on the back of hard working poorly paid taxpayers.Worse still their appalling influence can be seen in John Key’s decision to thumb his nose at his supporters who were almost unified in demanding democracy.
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September 3, 2009 3:41pm
SeaJay

Mickey Mouse Moore finishes his piece Esperanto with vegetarianism. wtf?
Vegetarianism is ALWAYS a good idea Lord Lamburger!
Heh, quite fun over here in the mosh pit.
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September 3, 2009 3:50pm
big bruv

I have just listened to Auckland super city mayoral candidate Len Brown on radio live.

To the people of Auckland, if you vote for this man then you have rocks in your head, Brown epitomises all that is wrong with left wing politics and the so called progressive movement.
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September 3, 2009 4:00pm
Cerium

Plenty of time for good candidates to front up bb. The early ones seem a bit over anxious to get over the start line.
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September 3, 2009 4:31pm
trout

Len Brown is like the athelete that sprints the first 100m of a 10,000 metre race to be seen in the lead, and then fades never to be seen again. He has no mojo – the left will find a better candidate – the stakes are too high.
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September 3, 2009 4:37pm
nickb

Phil I did give you my answer. You havent answered my question. Why after decades of generous welfare, billions of dollars down the drain, are children still in poverty?
And dont bullshit about WFF to middle income earners being a reason. Apart from the fact that most people on this blog, myself included, despise the communist bullshit that is WFF, it was only introduced in 2007.
The DPB has been around since the mid 70’s.
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September 3, 2009 4:40pm
big bruv

I dunno Trout, over the last few days I have heard many pinko’s urge their friends from the left not to stand against Brown.

One thing was clear, Brown was keen to distance himself from the Labour party, the interviewer kept mentioning that Brown was a member of the Labour party and Brown was extremely keen to play that down.
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September 3, 2009 4:42pm
racer1

“nickb
Phil I did give you my answer. You havent answered my question. Why after decades of generous welfare, billions of dollars down the drain, are children still in poverty?”

I don’t know, how about you answer my question. How come after hundreds of years of prisons and even the death penalty in some countries, why do we still have crime?

(In regards to your earlier question a few months back on kiwiblog, have you ever considered that you are the problem, not the economics department of what ever university you are at? because really, you are coming across thick as pig shit, if you ever tried to put forward an argument like the one you have above, you would be very lucky to pass)
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September 3, 2009 4:47pm
philu

stop playing lawyer bullshit ncb..

what is your solution to turn araound our dismal child poverty stats..

..here..now..

not some fucken abstract head-of-pin lawyer bullshit games..

just answer the fucken question..

what do we do..here..now..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 4:48pm
philu

“..… have another toke….
……and be grateful Mr Farrar doesn’t do the same ……”

how do you know farrar dosen’t toke..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 4:52pm
nickb

Well racer, this report is especially ironic that child poverty is so high after we’ve had 9 years of your mates in power.
How many kids do you reckon could be lifted out of poverty for the cost of a $700+million train set?
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September 3, 2009 4:54pm
nickb

And my point is, no matter how much the government throws MY money (and good parents’ money) at dropkick, delinquent, useless parents who cannot be fucked making a living to support their family, their will be people out there content to drift their lives in the hammock which is NZ’s social welfare system.

How the fuck can you legislate/make policy to simply stop people being fucking useless bludgers?

I don’t see how it is possible. Ber in mind that most of these children in poverty have parents that solely fit this definition. Why? Because any responsible, caring parent that had the willpower and responsibility who found themselves in a dire situation, would get off their arse and do something about it, and only use welfare as a safety net until they found a real job to support themselves.
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September 3, 2009 5:01pm
philu

no answers..eh ncb..?

i did note three times in my earlier comment the ‘sins’ of labour..

but anyway..just bitching at labour still..?

that’s all you have..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 5:01pm
philu

“..How the fuck can you legislate/make policy to simply stop people being fucking useless bludgers?..”

i dunno..!..

..close all the law schools..?

(i mean..95% of lawyers are nothing but ‘fucking useless bludgers?.’

eh..?..

what’s that..?

you’re training to be one..?

oh..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 5:05pm
Bok

First we remove children from drug users and criminals.
Stats show overwhelmingly that children brought up in households where drugs and alcohol is a major factor, are up to 20 times more likely to suffer child abuse and neglect.

member.preventchildabuse.org/site
pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-1/52-57.htm

Secondly we remove the children from homes of convicted criminals (rape, murder and armed robbery) because those children is ten times more likely to become criminals or suffer neglect.

Phil save us the anguish. Think of the ladies in the chemist whose lives you have ruined forever, before grandstanding about child poverty. Get off your arse and get a job. No sorry, you are to damn lazy. You could have contributed to helping the nation with generating or producing, instead you are probably responsible through your leaching for ten or more children going without.

And before you start playing with yourself again about my weight or your fantasy safari suit. Suck on this! If I need to, I can lose weight, If I want to I can wear jeans….

You will always be the slime-ball that abused those people in the chemist shop, stripped them of their human rights and raped their lives… And you can never change that. The least you could do is stop playing the caring sensitive person here. Look at others opinion of you. (the most negative karma of all?) You have no right to ask the question because you are in fact the problem.

And yeah, safari, suit, fat obese….. but never a slug that uses weapons on women.
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September 3, 2009 5:05pm
serge

and Turia suggests even more benefits to combat child poverty? Perhaps a good way is not to pay more than 20% of any benefit in cash….the rest in some form that can only be used for food and clothing (utilities and rent already deducted). The problem lies with the recipients spending the money in “other things”.
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September 3, 2009 5:07pm
Bok

And now I again apologise to DPF and other readers here for losing my cool. but having that lowlife scream “answer the fucken question….” at some-one else here was just a bit much for me. I’ll give myself 50 demerits DPF to save you the hassle. But by christ some-one needs to save that arse hole’s son from becoming just like him.
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September 3, 2009 5:08pm
nickb

Good to see you dodged the question then phil.
There are none so blind as those who do not want to hear, or something like that, isnt it the saying?

And it seems to me that those focussing on solely the children and the governments responsibility to them, do not actually give a fuck about the children. Phil I put it to you that those who are enraged by fuckwit parents care more about these children in poverty than you do. We know what the real cause is, and dont have our hands out for more all the time.

And phil, have you ever heard of a lawyers children being in poverty and a drug-infested house?
Or a lwayer wasting their years away on welfare?
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September 3, 2009 5:09pm
nickb

Good posts Bok
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September 3, 2009 5:10pm
Angus

Too bloody right !
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September 3, 2009 5:14pm
Owen McShane

It’s just not fair. the Australians are richer than we are.
So to close the gap with Australia by 2025 the easiest way is to ask them to impose a new tax called the “Poor NZers Tax” which they collect and redistribute to New Zealand.

After all they have a duty to lift all us poor New Zealanders out of poverty.
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September 3, 2009 5:19pm
philu

so..boks’ abuse to one side..

not one of you righties have any ideas..?

except food stamps for the poor..?

..instead of money..?

any thoughts on the formulae used by those countires that are number one..?

y’know..!..those higher-taxes..universal social support models..?

and btw..children in poverty are also the children of the working poor..

(keeping in mind last time national were in power..they raised the minimum wage by 87cents..in nine years..

..not even ten cents a year..

it is govt policy such as this ..and their gutting of social support..and labours abject failures to repair that..

..that has brought us to this place..

i mean..!..

it’s not fucken rocket science..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 5:46pm
Bok

Oh god!! The man is as thick as two short planks as well.
The intellect of a gnat
The value of dog shit.
No longer worth my time.
This is like watching David Capill trying to become the next children’s commissioner.
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September 3, 2009 5:51pm
nickb

Hahaha Graeme Capill you mean?
Agreed Bok, I had put philu and racer on my permanent ignore list. A lesson for next time I want to respond to their moronic envious rantings
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September 3, 2009 5:55pm
philu

did someone fart..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 5:58pm
philu

have many other people in yr life called you a ‘fool’..?..nckb..?

i’m picking there’s been a few..eh..?

and..a lawyer..?..you say..?

and..

just no ideas on that child poverty..eh..?

you just cut and run..eh..?

and take the fat fuck with you..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 6:02pm
kaya

Anyone read former PM Mike Moore’s piece in today’s Herald.

http://tinyurl.com/pdd6bn Critical both sides in the smacking debate, well written.
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September 3, 2009 6:26pm
Hurf Durf

Hey phool, child welfare will be even worse when the system collapses out of bankruptcy and there’s no economy left anymore.

Good to see you dodged the question then phil.

Surprise surfuckingprise. He did the same thing when I called him out on his bullshit about Big Dairy and wealth redistribution. Guy’s a fucking coward who shuts up and crawls into the foetal position to protect his worthless fucking ideology at the first challenge.

I’m having mince tonight. It’ll be even more tasty when I consider the vegan shit phool will be wolfing down.
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September 3, 2009 6:39pm
Steve

Bok,
“Oh god!! The man is as thick as two short planks as well.”
Bit unfair. I knew a man who had the nickname 4×2, four by two. He worked, he was a bit slow but he worked dam hard.
So it is unfair to compare Phool with 4×2 who did his duty for his Govt and fellow man.

“did someone fart..?” well there is only one thing here that stinks to high heaven. That would be the person that continues to approve a handout every week for Phool.

Get a life and get a job you low life bludger Phool
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September 3, 2009 6:44pm
starboard

whore will be tokin up large now..its after 6…expect more drug fuelled la la la …loser…
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September 3, 2009 6:53pm
Hurf Durf

Oh look, the Huruld passes off another bullshit myth from Levi Johnston about Palin as legitimate news (I won’t post the link because I don’t want to give them traffic, but you’ll find it) even when MSNBC thinks he’s a total liar talking out of his arsehole. I don’t particularly like Palin, but when every worthless, unsubstantiated confabulation is brought up as news, I can’t help but defend her (the shit about her losing hair is another recent one). It’s like with Melissa Lee: worthlessing cocksucking advocacy journalist scum who can’t stand the fact that some women vote with their brains, not with their genders. And don’t even get me started on Daniel Hannan, Laws, Paul Henry etc. Redbaiter can be extreme, but he gets to the heart of it oh so well. Fuck TVNZ, fuck CanWest, fuck Shitsty Minutes, fuck the Huruld and all the fucking rest. Fucking liars. I’m glad the global news media is haemorrhaging money.

Rant mode off.
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September 3, 2009 7:01pm
wreck1080

Approximately half the posts here are either written by PhilU, or comments about PhilU.

That is around 30sh of the 60 odd posts (+1 including mine ha ha).
i
PhilU is a waste of space (in my opinion), and he tries to annoy using stupid formatting.

I encourage people not to respond to PhilU. This guy is getting boring. He seems to thrive on response.
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September 3, 2009 7:02pm
Viking2

Quote of the Day. Very insightful.

Servant of the people

Posted by ZenTiger in John Key, S59, Smacking Referendum, ZenTiger

On John Key and ignoring the Smacking Referendum result:

“”What Key should be saying to the people is not, “trust me,” but “I trust you”.””
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September 3, 2009 7:10pm
starboard

On John Key and ignoring the Smacking Referendum result:

cant wait for the next poll results…me thinky Jk and National gona drop like a stone..
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September 3, 2009 7:23pm
Patrick Starr

“and btw..children in poverty are also the children of the working poor..”

if you cant afford em – dont have em.

Simple really
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September 3, 2009 7:31pm
MikeNZ

Wreck
I never read philu just give him bad karma.
we can disagree here and I do most often with cerium, ryan spoull and mickeysavage at times.
But Philu just wants to screw with people.
so I ignore him and read the rest of you.

sometimes you make me think and even change or amend my position.
often you word it so much better than I.
and to those of you who make me smile or on occasions laugh, thanks as it’s needed some days.
cos life can be a bitch some days of the week even here in Godzone, a little bit of paradise.
on a windless day.
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September 3, 2009 7:40pm
Sam123

I’m also in favor of a voucher/coupon system for welfare recipients. There is also the benefit of the Govt been able to negotiate volume discounts with suppliers (eg- supermarkets and power companies) to provide those on welfare with services. The reality is if your on welfare its not your money therefore you have no freedom as to how to spend it.
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September 3, 2009 7:56pm
Steve

Now you gotta love this:
http://www.newzealandnews.net/story/538192
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September 3, 2009 8:00pm
Viking2

Steve; seems to work in reverse here. The unintelligent manage to bred prolifically.

This had to happen. Just the first of many. who could be surprised.

http://pepei.pennnet.com/display_article/368050/6/ARTCL/none/INDUS/1/UK-fraud-investigators-make-carbon-trading-scam-arrests/

UK fraud investigators make carbon trading scam arrests

20 August 2009 – The British tax office has arrested seven people in London in a suspected 38m pounds ($62.6m) value-added tax fraud in the European market in carbon allowances, it said.
More at link
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September 3, 2009 8:08pm
side show bob

Agreed Viking2 and starboard. Many people around here are very disappointed with Nationals stance, most feel betrayed, some are angry, I’m a bit of both. I think the worst thing is the disappointment, after nine years of arrogant government hell bent on transforming NZ into a socialist cesspit it was with hope that I gave National one of my votes. I believe big bruv was right when he suggested we have a new leader same as the old one only with better fitting pants. Shonkey’s smacking bill isn’t working despite the propaganda. Greg O’Connor was on the radio this afternoon talking about the break down of order in many schools throughout the country. It seems expellings are at record levels as schools have no control over pupils. Where are the bloody liberals, the arseholes have remove rights to disciplining children, especially the parent and we now have kids running riot. Is Shonkey and his naive mates in National blind to all this? do all in National think the same way? If not why the complaisant silence from the rest? If I and thousands of others wanted more of the same we would have voted for that last insane maggot, fuck, wake up National, have you not learnt anything by sitting on the benches for the last nine years. Get your shit together.
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September 3, 2009 8:14pm
philu

and that folks..is what passes for a reasoned dialogue with the denizens of the right..

..on the subject of child poverty..

..and the solutions they have to offer..

(holy intellectual wasteland..!..batman..!)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 8:15pm
philu

so..ssb..no answer to the ‘what would you do?’ question..?

you got..nothing..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 8:19pm
side show bob

Viking2, do you think the British tax office would make trip down under, we have a few here trying to pull the same scam, unfortunately it’s our own government.
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September 3, 2009 8:21pm
starboard

agree all the way ssb..I too voted National with the hope of a new broom sweeping clean. If JK carries on down the road of ” I know best fuck democracy “..he and the Nats are finished after just one term.
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September 3, 2009 8:21pm
kaya

Viking2 @ 7.10 pm- Nice quote.

An amazingly poor decision by Key. I can only think his backroom analysts have come up with this on the basis that the new government have a positive “bank balance” with public opinion that can be reduced with the odd unpopular decision, as long as the account doesn’t get too low.
The problem with this one is that National inherited an account that was already heavily overdrawn after the shite we had to put up with from Labour, problem was his analysts didn’t seen it. Bad move.
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September 3, 2009 8:23pm
starboard

..ignore whore…he’s stoned…
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September 3, 2009 8:23pm
Sam123

@Philu – what is your solution then?
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September 3, 2009 8:24pm
Hurf Durf

Developing on my last rant, someone should tell the fourth estate that this really, really isn’t news. At all. But hey, it suits the totally fair and unbiased media.
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September 3, 2009 8:37pm
philu

“..# Sam123 (6) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 1 Says:
September 3rd, 2009 at 8:24 pm

@Philu – what is your solution then?..”

i would think the obvious first step would be to look at the countries that are numbers one..two..and three..

..and see what they are doing..to get the great outcomes they get..

..and take it from there..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 8:45pm
kaya

Sam123 – ffs don’t encourage him, he was nearly asleep.
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September 3, 2009 8:48pm
side show bob

Sorry Philu, had to rush off and feed the cows, fill the calves hay rack and set up fences for tomorrow , then cook tea. I guess my answer would be no more of the same shit that has lead us down this path. I’m all for helping people Philu but people are a lot like animals, will they are I guess. I will give you an example. Sometimes you will get a cow go down after calving, can be many reasons but usually has milk fever. This in it’s self is easy enough to fix but if the weather is inclement the animal may not be able to stand. So We usually lift the animal with a tractor and put it in a nice warm shed and cover it’s body with hay so it can warm up. We may then feed it with meal, give it water and sometimes a bit of fresh grass, they usually come right in a day or two but may need help to stand. Anyhow despite what you may think cows can be very cunning, a lot like people, I have had cows down for a week but the grass outside the hay shed had been eating off but the cow would still be down it the morning and refuse to get up. I would go out at night and the cow would be standing in the middle of the paddock pigging out but be back in the shed and down in the morning. If they still refuse to get up the electric fence unit usually does the trick, you have to be cruel to kind.. You see Philu if we can’t get the cow milked out in about five or six days there is a good chance she will dry off and will be nothing but another unproductive mouth to be fed. This country to has many unproductive mouths that need to be fed and I believe, just like my cows you have to be cruel to be kind, we need to jolt many into reality, you may include yourself if you so wish.
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September 3, 2009 8:50pm
lilman

Poverty ,shit shit and more shit.

The real reason that kids go without is that the parents(both of them) are peices of shit.
Kids come first, thats the way we were told to do it,not the old” Ive got to do this and my kids are missing out.”
Any drug user,A-class should have their kids removed and they should be shot, dont care about them, they are the total failure of the system and they need to be dealt with.
All child molesters suffer the same fate as well muderers, shit im sick of soft cock do-gooders.
As for the treaty,if ever there was a load of bullshit written about an outdated ,over rated doco then Ive yet to see it.
Len Brown, what a tosser.
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September 3, 2009 8:54pm
philu

so..more cruelty is yr answer..?

“..just like my cows you have to be cruel to be kind..”

you are ‘kind’ to yr cows..eh..?

wow..!..you have either had an irony-byepass..

or you are kneck deep in denial..

so..basically..you have nothing..?

..on the child poverty issue..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 9:00pm
side show bob

Whatever PhilU. I’m off to bed, have to get up soon. Oh, if you think I’m in denial then I’ll take that as a complement.
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September 3, 2009 9:09pm
Patrick Starr

Excessive welfare defies spencers “survival of the fittest”.
If you want to stop human progress, simply continue to give financial incentives for the unworthy to breed without natural accountability
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September 3, 2009 9:23pm
Whafe

There is not doubt that the vast majority think philu is a fuck witted oxygen thief of the highest order. I like the vast majority on Kiwiblog just ignore him. BUT….

I have to say that I am starting to be a little annoyed that DPF just allows this crap from philu to continue, yes it is free speech which I agree totally with, but a blog member such as philu adds nothing…. In life, things cease being worthwhile if people dont add to….. Not at all saying I add a HUGE amount, but I am in more disbelief by the day that DPF carries on allowing this fuck head to waste bandwidth on Kiwiblog!
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September 3, 2009 9:34pm
philu

so ..whafe..

what would you suggest we do about the child poverty stats/problem..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 9:45pm
pentwig

DPF

For goodness sakes why??
I know that you believe in freedom of speech, but hell , Philu’s tripe?
It’s time David, believe me it’s time.
You are allowing this hypocritical bludger to denigrate your site.
Other sites either moderate him or ban him.
His criticism of you and your website on other sites is unbelievable as I am sure you know.
Philu appears to be immune from your demerit system even though he abuses it everyday.
I, like many others are saying why!!
For the sake of this excellent site his unintelligent ravings needs to be addressed.
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September 3, 2009 9:48pm
Hurf Durf

There is no utopia, phool.
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September 3, 2009 9:51pm
philu

so hurf..you think we should just stay down at the bottom..?

and..have those at the top/with the best outcomes..found a ‘utopia’..?

wouldn’t logic dictate we look at what they do..

and hurf..re yr ‘utopian’ allegations..

do you really think this is as good as it gets..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 9:57pm
mattyroo

I found a link to Whale Oil’s site that has decent formatting and you don’t have to scroll through that fuckwit spondre’s tripe.

http://whaleoil.gotcha.co.nz/

Still not as good as the old site, but better than the amalgamated mess.
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September 3, 2009 9:58pm
philu

pentwig…r u spondre..?

in fact..i’m pretty sure you are..

the writing style..the site-advice..

the familiarity..

and only 11 comments to the name..?

ladies and gentlemen..

i present to you..

the ‘new’ spondre-alias..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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September 3, 2009 10:00pm
mattyroo

Actually whore, why don’t you get Spondre to be a co-blogger with you?

Then we could have all the losers of the blogosphere in the one place, and I know that I will never accidentally stumble across either of you two gobshites.
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September 3, 2009 10:01pm
Whafe

philu (5605) Vote: 0 1 Says:
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:45 pm
so ..whafe..

what would you suggest we do about the child poverty stats/problem..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

Fuck Stick – I will not answer your questions….. I have no respect for you as a human being, hence will not engage with you.
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September 3, 2009 10:07pm
hj

On TV7 last night there was a program about women i n Ethiopia who have bladder damage caused by obstetric proceedures. It was quite heart renching. I was reminded of a book I read about how to be happy. The psychologist suggested that the best way to be happy is to help other people (“it is better to give than to receive”). Then I thought of NZ where they have fast tracked that process: they just put their hand in your pocket and like the monkeys in the forest in Bali they get sick of asking they just demand.

philu Says:
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 pm

so..more cruelty is yr answer..?

People need to feel that if they have children they can’t necessarily expect the rest of society to support them. It is still a rule of society that we all contribute as best we can and that we help people who deserve help, but that doesn’t include people who conceive on the basis that the state (wouldn’t dare) let their progeny starve.
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September 3, 2009 10:12pm

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