General Debate 12 November 2009

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Patrick Starr

better headlines;

‘Troughing Trevor treats himself to taxpayer Twickenham trip’
or
‘Open Season as Mallard Ducks off’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10608731
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November 12, 2009 8:01am
Kevin James

How much longer can Labour put up with Phil Goff? What an incredible weakling.
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November 12, 2009 8:07am
MikeNZ

Is it any worse than a family wedding I wonder?

It seems the UK has our troughing problem too, but they seem to be doing something with some of their offenders.
http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/

Don’t you love the “My share of the National debt Button!
Perhaps DPF could have one for Kiwiblog?
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November 12, 2009 8:07am
Grant Michael McKenna

I think that Fill-in offered himself as the sacrificial lamb to lead the Labour Party next election, knowing that it will lose, and that he will then be rolled by Trevor, who is repositioning himself as a ‘man of the people’. Fill-in is doing all the apologising for things that people didn’t like about the previous government, and is thereby clearing the decks for his replacement.
In other words the Fill-in’s incompetence is part of the plan, which is why I don’t expect him to get ‘rolled’ but rather to resign after the next election.
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November 12, 2009 8:14am
Murray

You’ve picked the wrong day for that comment Kevin, Goff gets the only pass mark on Hone this week.

Give it a fortnight and take another swing.
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November 12, 2009 8:14am
Rufus

Tax in savings – I hate it.

I earn money – I get taxed on it. Fair enough.

Then I prudently save some for later, which makes a (very)little interest, a nice little bonus.

Then the government taxes that too! Basterds.

I don’t understand why. Take, take, take. Damned if you do (save), damned if you don’t (save).

Can any enlightened minds explain why savings in the bank need to be taxed?

Why can’t we have a tax-free ISA savings scheme like the UK has – at least it encourages people to save money, reducing debt.

Rufus
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November 12, 2009 8:16am
david

Whahey, Murray Mexted finally gets the axe. The Sky commentary might actually start to be worth listening to.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10608735
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November 12, 2009 8:22am
Patrick Starr

Mexteds psychic energy disrupted tranmission
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November 12, 2009 8:29am
MikeNZ

Rufus
I wrote to Cullen about the same thing and got a very nice bullshit letter back satying they were looking at many ways to encourage savings!
Maybe I should do the same to English and have them framed side by side.

Why don’t we allow (retired resident in NZ) people over 65 not to pay tax?
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November 12, 2009 8:29am
Pete George

Murray Mexted finally gets the axe.

Funny thing is that he says it was because he was critical of the NZRFU. I guess all the people critical of his inane comments over the years didn’t matter. But maybe his criticism was “an ideal sacking opportunity”. Mexted seemed to have a big blindside – he was usually blind to what was actually happening, on both sides usually but to the other side when Wellington were playing..
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November 12, 2009 8:31am
MikeNZ

Trivia
I was told he is the only person to hold the World Spoof Championship two world cups in a row.
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November 12, 2009 8:38am
Manolo

With his latest admission Mallard qualifies not only as a small town thug, but as a world class parasite.
How on Earth people in Hutt South can elect and re-elect this crook is beyond me.
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November 12, 2009 8:40am
nickb

What is Whale doing?

http://bryanspondre.gotcha.co.nz/2009/11/12/family-first-mo-fo/

Kick out all the morons you share your blog with, you are one of the best in the country, why would you put rubbish like this on it.
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November 12, 2009 8:45am
philu

i clicked on that..now i have to go and wash my eyes..

why t.f. is whale promoting/presenting this low-rent version of a penthouse letter section..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 12, 2009 8:52am
peterwn

Kevin – I gave you a thumbs down. Phil Goff is enormous value to the Nats – the gift that keeps on giving.
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November 12, 2009 8:57am
Simon

With Obama dismantling the US health system there are real opportunities for NZ in the area of medical tourism. Can Key get another slot on Letterscum?

What is the National party doing to help promote NZ’s private medical system in the US?

Rich Yanks aint gonna put up with Obamacare.
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November 12, 2009 8:58am
Inventory2

Manolo said “With his latest admission Mallard qualifies not only as a small town thug, but as a world class parasite.
How on Earth people in Hutt South can elect and re-elect this crook is beyond me.”

I guess that the old adage that “it takes one to know one” holds true here in a perverse sort of way.
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November 12, 2009 9:00am
Pete George

I am not sure how the ‘family first mo fo’ bigots at the troll farm would respond to this anecdote.

I find this “anecdote” repulsive, and I am baffled why anyone would almost proudly admit to crap like that. I was debating with the targets of his abuse but don’t like his story nor his method. I think it’s best to try and build bridges, not burn them down and then shit in the creek.
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November 12, 2009 9:02am
Colonel Masters

Repulsive. But I never see the others who share Whale’s new site, as I go directly to http://whaleoil.gotcha.co.nz/ – rather than http://www.gotcha.co.nz
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November 12, 2009 9:14am
peterwn

Re Hone Harawira

We are too gentle and patient in NZ. In UK he would have been woken at dawn and carted off to the cop shop for his abusive language.

See:
http://tinyurl.com/yg4ka5s
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November 12, 2009 9:19am
tom hunter

In all the kerfuffle about Honi’s comment and questions about Joris’s position, I’m surprised DPF did not haul this piece out of his archives two years ago:

Nor may Maori activists or their supporters sensibly be called racists. Racism has nothing to do with skin colour, and everything to do with power. Anyone who argues that those arrested in Tuhoe and elsewhere last month are more powerful than the state authority unleashed on them is deluded. Or trying to win votes by any means necessary.

That’s from the Herald on Sunday, and was cited in this Kiwiblog thread – Definition of Racism – in which DPF professed himself amazed at how racism had been “re-defined”, although I did like his pithy, follow-up comment:

The way they define power structure means they are automatically excluded from it – even if a Cabinet Minister!

Indeed. As I commented at the time:

Hate is Love. War is Peace. Pah, crude! Power is Powerlessness is infinitely more subtle and brilliant.
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November 12, 2009 9:27am
MikeNZ

Peterwyn
Only it seems if you’re white and malign the Islamics or brown faces or in this case a bureaucrat.
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November 12, 2009 9:36am
Brian Smaller

How on Earth people in Hutt South can elect and re-elect this crook is beyond me.

Because there are a lot of really dumb welfare bludgers in Wainui, Naenae and Taita.
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November 12, 2009 9:38am
philu

“..why t.f. is whale promoting/presenting this low-rent version of a penthouse letter section..?..”

and it is so badly written..

well-written erotica has its’ place..

this is public toilet wall material..

someone give spondre a marker pen..eh..?

and point him at a loo..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 12, 2009 9:39am
PinkGina

Pete

The irony with Mexted being stood down is that he is right.

The NPC comp this year was fantastic with those teams likely to go playing great rugby. Mexted’s comments on ReUnion tuesday night were informed and expertly presented. maybe he knew something was up.

Mexted is a principled person, i would suggest he doesn’t need the money and he makes a commentary alot more interesting than the boring and dull string of alternatives they put with Nisbett
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November 12, 2009 9:40am
Buggerlugs

Police are no longer investigating a road rage complaint against Labour MP Trevor Mallard, saying the parties have “agreed to disagree”.
Interaction between the two continued, culminating in Mr Mallard claiming the passenger got out of the car and swung a bag at him, and the passenger claiming Mr Mallard took a swing at him.
Wellington area commander Pete Cowan told The Dominion Post newspaper the accounts of Mr Mallard and several witnesses were “at odds with the initial complaint”.

So in other words Mallard has once again not let the facts get in the way of airtime…

[DPF: Actually I think the Police are saying that Mallard’s account is consistent with the witnesses, but inconsistent with the car driver]
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November 12, 2009 9:43am
RightNow

That Spondre sure is creepy. It seems he never figured out what he wanted to do with his life.
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November 12, 2009 9:45am
Pete George

I think Mexted was only partly right. The NPC was a success this year in the provinces, but the S14 bases struggled to draw crowds due to spectator fatigue (too much rugby) and the fact that NPC is at a lower level than tests and S14. The provinces created the excitement, but they need the big franchises for this. And the smaller unions can’t afford to carry on as it is.

I rarely found Mexted’s commentary interesting. Many of his comments were meaningless or the bleeding obvious, like “this scrum is an ideal attacking opportunity”, and he either wasn’t watching very well or he had no idea about the laws.
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November 12, 2009 9:48am
RightNow

Buggerlugs, without wanting to defend Trev, it seems the other party (who made a complaint) was the one not consistent with the facts (or the accounts from witnesses / Mallard).
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November 12, 2009 9:49am
Pete George

accounts of Mr Mallard and several witnesses were “at odds with the initial complaint”.

So in other words Mallard has once again not let the facts get in the way of airtime…

?? The way I read this the initial complaint did not stack up against Mallard’s and several witness accounts.

…as RN said.
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November 12, 2009 9:51am
RightNow

Trev Alert confirmed by the media: “Mr Mallard publicised the trip yesterday on Red Alert, the Labour MP’s blog.”
(from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10608731)

Since the apostrophe is before the s, that means it belongs to the Labour MP (Trev). Otherwise it would be the Labour MPs’ blog wouldn’t it?
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November 12, 2009 9:53am
Johnboy

“?? The way I read this the initial complaint did not stack up against Mallard’s and several witness accounts.”

But were the witness’s not some of his cycling buddies hence probably liarbour supporters and hence unable to utter the truth, being totally unfamiliar with the concept of honesty?
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November 12, 2009 9:57am
Johnboy

“Because there are a lot of really dumb welfare bludgers in Wainui,——-”

I feel deeply hurt by your comments never having bludged in my life however I have to admit you are absolutely correct in your assessment Brian but should also add the high number of civil servants who reside in the Hutt area and depend on the socialists for their daily bread.

This of course is true also for all the Wellington area and undoubtably is the reason we always seem to end up with useless Liarbour wankers for our MPs.
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November 12, 2009 10:03am
nickb

“someone give spondre a marker pen..eh..?

and point him at a loo..”

Heh. Colonel that is a good idea, will change my link.
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November 12, 2009 10:05am
Luc Hansen

This is an extract from a NYT op-ed by David Brooks on the Fort Hood massacre.

“But unlike the other animals, people do have a drive to seek coherence and meaning. We have a need to tell ourselves stories that explain it all. We use these stories to supply the metaphysics, without which life seems pointless and empty.”

My question is WHY?

Why do we need to tell stories, create folklore and invent myths, which in themselves are harmless but when re-interpreted to suit a particular world view, cause a few extremists in the caves of Pakistan and the cities of the west to justify savage and ultimately pointless acts of wars in self-perpetuating cycles of misery for ordinary folk just like you and I.

The same writer made this statement in the same article: “the war narrative of the struggle against Islam is the central feature of American foreign policy.”

And the Jerusalem Post today wrote this: …declares [Fort Hood massacre] “proof that the war of civilizations is radicalizing American-born Muslims.”

Gwynne Dyer in the Herald said roughly the same thing – it’s not the individual: it’s the invasions of Muslim lands, whether by overt or by proxy invasions. “Time to get real.”

So we have a purely invented narrative, formed from a weakness of human character, informing brutal, anti-human acts.

And nothing will change until we accept that this life is our only life, that we are masters of our own destiny, that we are not beholden to invented stories and their mythical characters, our existence IS our purpose and the survival of our species is our goal.
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November 12, 2009 10:09am
Brian Smaller

Because there are a lot of really dumb welfare bludgers in Wainui,——-

I feel deeply hurt by your comments never having bludged in my life however I have to admit you are absolutely correct in your assessment Brian but should also add the high number of civil servants who reside in the Hutt area and depend on the socialists for their daily bread.

Don’t get me wrong – there are plenty of smart welfare bludgers in Wainui, Naenae and Taita as well.
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November 12, 2009 10:09am
philu

heh..!..this is about one of you rightwing trolls..who ‘saw the light’…and moved left..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/hi-im-marty-and-im-a-recovering-republicani-was-a-feminazi-hating-liberal-bashing-loudmouth-who-tried-to-befriend-bill-oreilly-man-i-was-such-a-douche/

“..Every day I wake up with the same thought: “I used to be such a goddamned idiot.”

I am a former Republican.

And I wasn’t merely the libertarian, live-and-let-live, fun-at-parties kind of conservative .. whose primary concern is balancing the budget; ..

..I was a spiteful, narrow-minded, fire-breathing paranoid lunatic ..

.. who questioned the patriotism and morality of my liberal fellow citizens.

Recognizing the error of my ways has done wonders for my mental health .. but left me with constant, unremitting remorse; ..

..I really want to go back in time and kick my own ass..”

gotta love that ‘Recognizing the error of my ways has done wonders for my mental health’ line..

..eh..?

es..pecially as so many of you are obviously such ‘sick’ fucks..

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 12, 2009 10:13am
Johnboy

“smart welfare bludgers’

Brilliant Brian. At last a proper title for civil servants. 🙂
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November 12, 2009 10:13am
Cadmus

Jack5 No I’m not a Nazi as you put it. I have meet many diffent people over the years. The guy that fought in Nam was in the Hitler Youth. He was a kid when the war in Europe ended. The US didn’t like letting ex german service staff fighting in Korea, due to the fact WW2 had only ended a few years before.

He also informed me many ex german who had military service in WW2 also fought in the big asian bun fight! .

I have also meet another guy who had an interesting story he was in a concentration camp and survived the war ,Tattoo and all. It was such a great story you could make a movie about it!
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November 12, 2009 10:19am
philu

are you bored..?..winston..?

(chafing/champing at the bit.?.

missing ‘the smell of the ring’..?.)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 12, 2009 10:24am
scanner

If you don’t like Bryans’ post on Whale why come here whinging about it, go and have a crack at either him or Whale in their own arena, if you’ve got the nuts, it’s expected from The Fecal Phool, it’s his job to piss and moan about everything.
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November 12, 2009 10:31am
Cadmus

Murray ..Do you live in Australia, and yet post here?
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November 12, 2009 10:44am
philu

“..go and have a crack at either him or Whale in their own arena, if you’ve got the nuts,.”

it’s not so much a matter of ‘nuts’..

as ‘ew..!..why bother..!’

and..um..!..nckb ‘brought it here’..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 12, 2009 10:56am
Redbaiter

Michele Bachmann-

CNN do a reasonably fair (for them) profile. A Conservative, you won’t read anything nice about Michelle in NZ’s Progressive dominated media.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/11/michele.bachmann/index.html?eref=rss_politics&iref=polticker

Hope she runs for President.
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November 12, 2009 11:02am
scanner

So why join in Fool, there are times when you can make sense, but most of the time you a tosser.
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November 12, 2009 11:06am
Pete George

I see what you mean about trusting the media…

When Michele Bachmann appeared on Sean Hannity’s Fox News TV show to celebrate her anti-health care reform rally, she said it had drawn as many as 45,000 — a figure almost everyone else put at up to 10,000. Then Hannity showed video that began with scenes of Bachmann’s Thursday rally under a clear fall sky but shifted to a much larger protest (9/12, it turns out) under heavy clouds in which the trees are still green.

http://minnesotaindependent.com/49536/bachmann-hannity-beck-stewart-rally-912
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November 12, 2009 11:12am
tom hunter

It would seem that even the leftist jew-bashers have finally begun to realise where their obsession is taking them – straight into the heart of Islamist insanity.

Even the standard, reflexive rants about the past or current ‘horrors’ of Christianity seems too stupid to indulge in any more. Yet rather than confronting the Islamist issue head-on, what now seems to be happening is tired, dispirited, hand-waving at generic “religion”.

And so we have David Brooks quoted talking of a “narrative”, yet with a rather crucial piece missing, a piece that indicates even that he has finally awoken:

With their suicide bombings and terrorist acts, adherents to this narrative have made themselves central to global politics. They are the ones who go into crowded rooms, shout “Allahu akbar,” or “God is great,” and then start murdering.

When Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan did that in Fort Hood, Tex., last week, many Americans had an understandable and, in some ways, admirable reaction. They didn’t want the horror to become a pretext for anti-Muslim bigotry.

So immediately the coverage took on a certain cast. The possibility of Islamic extremism was immediately played down. This was an isolated personal breakdown, not an ideological assault, many people emphasized.

Major Hasan was portrayed as a disturbed individual who was under a lot of stress. We learned about pre-traumatic stress syndrome, and secondary stress disorder, which one gets from hearing about other people’s stress. We heard the theory (unlikely in retrospect) that Hasan was so traumatized by the thought of going into a combat zone that he decided to take a gun and create one of his own.

A shroud of political correctness settled over the conversation. Hasan was portrayed as a victim of society, a poor soul who was pushed over the edge by prejudice and unhappiness.

There was a national rush to therapy. Hasan was a loner who had trouble finding a wife and socializing with his neighbors.

This response was understandable. It’s important to tamp down vengeful hatreds in moments of passion. But it was also patronizing. Public commentators assumed the air of kindergarten teachers who had to protect their children from thinking certain impermissible and intolerant thoughts. If public commentary wasn’t carefully policed, the assumption seemed to be, then the great mass of unwashed yahoos in Middle America would go off on a racist rampage.

Worse, it absolved Hasan — before the real evidence was in — of his responsibility. He didn’t have the choice to be lonely or unhappy. But he did have a choice over what story to build out of those circumstances. And evidence is now mounting to suggest he chose the extremist War on Islam narrative that so often leads to murderous results.

The conversation in the first few days after the massacre was well intentioned, but it suggested a willful flight from reality. It ignored the fact that the war narrative of the struggle against Islam is the central feature of American foreign policy. It ignored the fact that this narrative can be embraced by a self-radicalizing individual in the U.S. as much as by groups in Tehran, Gaza or Kandahar.

It denied, before the evidence was in, the possibility of evil. It sought to reduce a heinous act to social maladjustment. It wasn’t the reaction of a morally or politically serious nation.
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November 12, 2009 11:20am
Luc Hansen

Tom, you seem to miss Brook’s point,which I simply extracted. It’s good to see you popped over to read the article, but I fail to see how your more extensive quote throws any more light on the issue, but read his last sentence again.

His point is that the foreign policy of the US is now directly inciting what are essentially acts of internal terrorism, and the US is putting its head in the sand by pretending Hasan was just a traumatised individual. His act was well planned; his actions deliberate; and his reasons were political more than personal. This is an educated man who presented a paper advocating that Muslims be excused from wars on Muslim lands.

But as with the 9/11 attacks, the US and its sycophantic friends will now treat the symptoms rather than the cause.

You just need to try to see all people as they are, individuals where differences in religion, colour or ancestry does not diminish them as human beings. And it is this that should inform our policy settings, not your wild eyed panic at the imagined invading hordes of Koran quoting fanatics, probably, in your dreamy feverish fantasies being confronted by hordes of Bible quoting fanatics – most with American accents, no doubt.
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November 12, 2009 12:59pm
MikeNZ

LUC
Here is a comment from an Canadian Muslim that puts it the FT Hood event in perspective.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story_print.html?id=2204684&sponsor=
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November 12, 2009 1:05pm
MikeNZ

If the Israelis are looking at this for incoming missles why can’t we do the same for Tsunamis?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1257455202899&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
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November 12, 2009 1:23pm
Kris K

Luc Hansen 10:09 & 12:59 pm,

Hasan was just doing what any ‘good’ Muslim should; he was modelling himself upon the founder of Islam – Mohammed the terrorist (paedophile, treacherous liar, adulterer, murderer, etc).

When they come, Luc, and they will come, your life will be worth no more than that of the Christian or the Jew. You condemn yourself and your descendants to at best Dhimmi status, at worst annihilation.

The aims of Islam are clear; are on public record; and are voiced by adherents and the leaders of Islam.
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November 12, 2009 1:38pm
Patrick Starr

John Key said;
“It is a serious issue that it sparks up some sort of unrest or ill-feeling when it’s unnecessary. When National and the Maori Party joined for a political relationship, I think that set race relations in New Zealand in a very positive tone. I believe that continues and I’d hate to see it undermined by the feelings, thoughts or comments from Hone Harawira.”

well John, when you lie down with dogs…….
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November 12, 2009 1:42pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 1:23 pm,

If the Israelis are looking at this for incoming missles why can’t we do the same for Tsunamis?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1257455202899&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Very interesting, Mike. And I agree.

The fact that the article says the “rocket alert system in Israel that will be able to calculate the precise location of an impact zone, and alert residents in an affected neighborhood via their cellphones” would tend to imply that shortly after launch the trajectory and velocity of the rocket would be calculated to quickly establish impact location. Presumably this will take seconds to do this calculation, and shortly follow up with sending out the alert via cellphone. One would assume, also, that the general alert would sound in the affected region for those without cellphones, or with bad coverage.

So within seconds the alert (in Israel) will be sounded, and yet we in NZ can’t even get it right three to four hours out from a tsunami’s possible arrival.
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November 12, 2009 1:55pm
nickb

Well isn’t the Harawira hui going to be a jack up and a whitewash.

I cracked up at this line from Stuff website- sums it all up really:

“The opening session of the hui is closed to the pakeha media but Maori Television is allowed to cover it”.

“Pakeha media”- hahaha
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November 12, 2009 2:40pm
philu

no starr..

it is the maori party who are lying down with dogs..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 12, 2009 2:46pm
Tassman

I look forward to waken by that slow ache in the guts; I struggle but anticipate getting up and into the bathroom. While listening to Radio NZ international I experience that emptiness feelings as the sounds of splashing is heard from below. I close my eyes and indulge in that moment of relief which basically makes my day. Feels like a million dollar afterwards…
It’s just like the same old Tories who would in numbers whether it’s majority rule or totalitarian and fascism jump to accuse someone of racism, but the anti Honism are themselves guilty of the same allegation in parliament, and on the media. Their ideology and therefore lifestyle in based upon it.

I can’t wait til tomorrow !
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November 12, 2009 2:51pm
malcolm

Winston has found a gap in the door and is putting his foot into it:

“Maori Party dividing NZ – Peters”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3056741/Maori-Party-dividing-NZ-Peters
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November 12, 2009 2:52pm
sbk

..”The opening session of the hui is closed to the pakeha media but Maori Television is allowed to cover it”…pakeha media?…Is that confirmation that MaoriTV is in reality, the media arm of the Maori party ?.
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November 12, 2009 3:42pm
PinkGina

nickb

Classic stuff eh

The hui was called consider disciplinary action against Harawira with a swimming display and no pakeha media.

Will he sink or swim?
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November 12, 2009 3:46pm
nickb

Isn’t it a joke?

It will be a public slap on the hand, and a private congratulation that he managed to take the taxpayer for a trip to Paris- ironically the home of much “pakeha raping and pillaging” in the colonial world.
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November 12, 2009 4:06pm
nickb

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3056741/Maori-Party-dividing-NZ-Peters

The main question which arises out of this is:

Who the fuck cares what this insane corrupt egomaniac thinks?
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November 12, 2009 4:15pm
emmess

Can anyone see the irony in this?

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters earlier used a speech to Grey Power in Wanganui to attack Mr Harawira for his abusive comments.

“When an MP can vilify other New Zealanders on an overtly racial basis – and not be instantly dismissed from his party – we are in deeply dangerous territory.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10608838
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November 12, 2009 4:18pm
labrator

“Pakeha media”?! So the Sydney Morning Herald could send someone? I think that’s called discriminating by race and should be illegal.
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November 12, 2009 4:23pm
Luc Hansen

Kris K – you’re just as mad as hatter; reading your lunacy makes my day 😉 I see DPF is obviously quivering in fear as he traverses those hostile Muslim lands! All three monotheistic Abrahamic religions have their extremists and Islam is no different. Did you not see the Orthodox Jews dancing in the streets of New York while Gaza was being bombed, hysterically delighting in the murder of men, women and children alike? Or maybe you approve of their behaviour?

Mike, thanks for the link. The major problem with this analysis is that it ignores the fact that we, the West, are feeding this jihad monster every single day in nearly every single Muslim country.

The Muslim world, even if it was a single, united entity, which it is not, simply does not pose a threat to the West. We are over there swatting flies with remote-controlled Hellfire missiles for venal geo-political advantage. Then we wonder why they come to hate us.
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November 12, 2009 4:23pm
nickb

At least I am glad Joris has put the record straight.

Whitey attacks darkie = Racist, intolerant bigotry
Darkie attacks whitey + Protected by freedom of speech, tut tut.

Thanks for your complaints to the Human Rights Commission fellas, but don’t bother next time if the culprit is of Maori origin, what we know now is that their freedom of speech to attack whites and incite racial hatred is a protected human right, being freedom of speech (presumably Harawira would claim it was a treaty right also)
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November 12, 2009 4:34pm
Kris K

Luc Hansen 4:23 pm,

Having you consider me “mad as [a] hatter” is actually a compliment to common sense and the facts on the ground.
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November 12, 2009 4:38pm
democracymum

I see it is being reported the President of the Maori Party is suggesting Hone stands as an independent.
The problem with this scenario, is that under MMP it strengthens the Maori radical base, rather than diluting it.

Come the next election, Hone can buddy up with The Maori Party again (this time as a coalition partner) to pressure the unfortunate largest party for the best post election bribe (at the white mofo’s expense of course)

You know it’s been a bad week for the Government when Phil Goff looks more like a leader than JK and you can’t help agreeing with Winston Peters.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3056741/Maori-Party-dividing-NZ-Peters
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November 12, 2009 4:47pm
Tauhei Notts

Different subject, but it is General debate.
Merry Christmas for the country’s cow cockies.
They will be getting a seventy five cents per kilogramme of milksolids deferred payment on Friday 18th December. That is the biggest deferred payment that I can recall.
This will have a big impact on rural New Zealand.
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November 12, 2009 4:50pm
Pete George

Coerced abortions, as well as involuntary sterilizations, are commonplace in China:

Among evidence provided by two human rights organizations, ChinaAid and Women’s Rights Without Frontiers, were tales of pregnant women essentially being hunted down and forced to submit to surgery or induced labor.

A woman pregnant without permission has to surrender her unborn child to government enforcers, no matter what the stage of fetal development.

…most late-term infants died during induced labor, some lived and “would be left in trash cans. Some of them could still live for one to two days.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/10/AR2009111013891.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Similar things have been discussed here recently, this seems to be the reality of it. A grim read.
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November 12, 2009 5:09pm
Hurf Durf

Puke sez the West is to blame for everything, as per usual. Take your guilt and shove it.

Looks like the fact is being established that shrinks and the FBI knew that Hasan was a nutter and a fundie at least a year ago, but refused to do anything because that would be raaaaacist. And now 13 people are dead. Sad but true.
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November 12, 2009 5:30pm
dad4justice

Haha honkie asks is the Hone saga going to be another blackwash?
What the hell eh bro!
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November 12, 2009 5:44pm
Fletch

The problem in the Hone saga is not so much the cussing, but it’s the ideology behind the statements he has made; he made a slip caused by his anger at the time he was writing his email and revealed his true colors. We don’t need someone with activist intentions in the political position that he is in, and neither do the Maori party.

It’s not good for Maori, and it’s not good for Pakeha.
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November 12, 2009 5:51pm
MikeNZ

Fletch
He was just voicing what Pita and Turia think anyway but are wise in not blurting it out.
It’s what they set the party up for.
I like the fact that he calls a spade a spade, at least we know where he stands.
Not so the smiling assassin as he trashes the social contract.
Guess who I have more respect for?
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November 12, 2009 5:55pm
EPMU

Hone plays he race card lol

http://i34.tinypic.com/30c1477.jpg
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November 12, 2009 6:04pm
Steve

Tauhei Notts@ 4.50.
Why did you spoil everything? The religious nutbars have been raving since DPF has been away.
Even comments about Hone hardly get looked at, just these God botherers doing what they do best, talk shit.

Can a new General Debate have its’ own post tomorrow? and leave the old General Debate for the Bible Bashers please?
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November 12, 2009 6:04pm
EPMU

Unemployed bible bashers by the qty of the dribbling thats been going on
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November 12, 2009 6:08pm
MikeNZ

Steve
Blame the Atheists 🙂

EPMU
Shame don’t you have broadband in your office or on your phone like DPF?
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November 12, 2009 6:22pm
EPMU

Stealing company time Mike?
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November 12, 2009 6:36pm
Kris K

Steve 6:04 pm, & EPMU 6:08 pm,

When the religious nutbar, Bible bashers are NOT around then you guys (atheists) will really have something to worry about!

If you guys think the world is currently going to hell in a handbasket (I know Pete George thinks it’s getting better), then when the Christians are silent by their absence, and you guys have the place to yourselves, then let’s just say ‘the lid will be off’ and evil will REALLY have free reign.

Something to look forward to … NOT.

[I could give you chapter and verse, but I would hate to bore you]
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November 12, 2009 7:04pm
Pete George

Not exactly Kris, that’s not what I’ve said. In some ways it’s getting better, in some ways it’s getting worse. Generally in NZ the standard of living and life expectancy, both actual and potential, have kept improving, and we haven’t had to deal with any major wars or epidemics. But I think society is also getting more selfish and violent.

If you are expecting evil to take over then sit back and wait, because that’s what may well happen. But if you believe that with a combined effort things could be incrementally improved then there’s a good chance of that happening.
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November 12, 2009 7:10pm
EPMU

Yes, you would bore me. Very very very very much.
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November 12, 2009 7:21pm
Jadis

What Pete said… mostly.

Ultimately it comes down to attitude and how you care for people. You can make a changes in the world without ‘knowing’ Christ, and you can make a difference without accepting God (or similar).
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November 12, 2009 7:24pm
Pete George

I think it could be a smart move by the Maori Party, putting the responsibility on Harawira and suggesting that if he wants to act independently he should consider being Independent. If he wants to stay in the party he should work with the party. His choice.
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November 12, 2009 7:25pm
Kris K

Pete George 7:10 pm,

In some ways it’s getting better, in some ways it’s getting worse. … But I think society is also getting more selfish and violent.

Fair enough – I stand corrected.

If you are expecting evil to take over then sit back and wait, because that’s what may well happen. But if you believe that with a combined effort things could be incrementally improved then there’s a good chance of that happening.

As you would probably know, my personal view is that evil WILL inevitably take over, not because anyone is sitting back and waiting, but because man is a sinful, corrupt, and evil being; and he has thrown of his only defense; an intimate relationship with his Creator and God.

Increasing selfishness, violence, sexual depravity, and a general lack of moral standards are ALL symptomatic of man’s divestment of God in his society in general, and in the lives of individuals in particular.

[Apologies in advance to all Bible bashees]
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November 12, 2009 7:37pm
Steve

Can you Devil dodgers please excuse me?
Im gonna throw up.
Take it to a chat room
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November 12, 2009 7:45pm
Pete George

You could always come up with something alternate and interesting Steve?
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November 12, 2009 7:48pm
Steve

Now that brown racist prick won’t even go independent. All the bro’s on his side.
Nah watch out Pita, he wants to be leader of a racist party, the one and only leader
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November 12, 2009 7:48pm
Kris K

Jadis 7:24 pm,

What Pete said… mostly.

Ultimately it comes down to attitude and how you care for people. You can make a changes in the world without ‘knowing’ Christ, and you can make a difference without accepting God (or similar).

While people might like to think that Mankind can improve his lot by self effort, it belies the fact that the root problem is that we are sinful beings. No amount of education, technology, etc can address this root problem. The only solution is by Man becoming a new creature without sin; and this is only possible through the Christ of the Bible indwelling us.

The evidence that Man is failing by his own efforts confronts us each day in the papers, on TV, and here on the net. The ONLY solution is for Man to turn to God – and sadly, most aren’t going to (according to the Bible).
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November 12, 2009 7:52pm
Steve

Pete George,
Stick your religious bullshit where the Global Warming Sun don’t shine.
I don’t need something alternate, religion sucks. If you want it, that is fine but don’t push your bullshit to me
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November 12, 2009 7:53pm
Pete George

Ah Steve, I’m not into it myself.

And I find it a bit sad when Kris says that there is only crap without it, because that’s not my experience.
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November 12, 2009 7:59pm
Kris K

Steve 7:45 pm,

I thought GD was Kiwiblog’s version of a chat room?

… and I’ve heard that exorcising evil spirits is often associated with vomiting …

Do you feel better, Steve?
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November 12, 2009 8:01pm
Steve

Pete and Kris can have sex and travel, I’m not interested.
Go try and convert Phool
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November 12, 2009 8:07pm
Steve

GD is a political blog you fucking morons
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November 12, 2009 8:09pm
Kris K

Actually Steve,

‘G’ stands for GENERAL, and ‘D’ stands for DEBATE.

Half the stuff debated here is non political. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you go and rotate somewhere else.
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November 12, 2009 8:16pm
Pete George

The best solution is for people to have responsibility for themselves. Having a god to blame things on, hoping a god will sort your shit out for you, that works counter to self responsibility. Through better education and science we are evolving away from needing to rely on the prop of religion, and we are waking up to those that try and exploit others through religion. It isn’t an easy transition but it’s the way to go forward. Those that want to retain a faith need to recognise that other people can find viable alternatives.

Those who want to remain in the “must believe in my specific stuff or be damned” camps will be left behind in history. Diversity of belief and custom is healthy.
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November 12, 2009 8:23pm
Kris K

Pete George 5:09 pm,

Coerced abortions, as well as involuntary sterilizations, are commonplace in China: …

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/10/AR2009111013891.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Similar things have been discussed here recently, this seems to be the reality of it. A grim read.

A grim read indeed!

From the article:

The one-child policy has created other problems that threaten women and girls. The traditional preference for boys has meant sex-selected abortions resulting in a gender imbalance. Today, men in China outnumber women by 37 million, a disparity that has become a driving force behind sex slavery in Asia. Exacerbating the imbalance, about 500 women a day commit suicide in China — the highest rate in the world, which Littlejohn attributes in part to coercive family planning.
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November 12, 2009 8:31pm
Kris K

Pete George 8:23 pm,

Don’t get me wrong, Pete, I’m all for personal responsibility.

I try to use all the tools in the toolbox. It’s just that one of my tools (a pretty major one) is my faith and Christian beliefs. That doesn’t mean that the other things at my disposal are diminished; in fact quite the opposite, those other things are enhanced by my faith.

You and I would, no doubt, have many things in common that we regard as important. For me, my faith works in partnership with my other values, beliefs, and practices. A ‘both/and’ situation if you like.

My faith isn’t so much a prop, but rather an anchor.
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November 12, 2009 8:42pm
Pete George

It makes me want to think again about supporting trade with China. But….as bad as this sounds, how would things be in China if they had no child restrictions – what would their population and quality of life be?
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November 12, 2009 8:43pm
Steve

Chat room, Pete and Kris
L8R
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November 12, 2009 8:55pm
Kris K

Pete George 8:43 pm,

It makes me want to think again about supporting trade with China. But….as bad as this sounds, how would things be in China if they had no child restrictions – what would their population and quality of life be?

That’s the dilemma of trading with countries which have a different value system to ours. My bugbear is our trade with Muslim countries – you can probably guess why.

If China had no child restrictions I imagine they would be a whole lot better off than they are now. 37 million more men than women, and 500 women a day committing suicide is nothing to write home about.

As we’ve just been discussing the causitive link between women in NZ who have abortions and womens’ mental health; I wonder how many of those 500 (women) daily suicides in China are related to the state forcing abortions on women who don’t gain permission for their child? I’m sure they’d make up a good chunk of that number.
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November 12, 2009 8:56pm

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