General Debate 20 November 2009

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getstaffed

@getstaffed 2:25: Luc claims that anything he disagrees with is a distortion, and further, that anyone who writes something disagrees with is guilty of personal abuse

@Luc 3:51: getstaffed, what a pompous prat!

Glasshouses. Stones. Hypocrisy.
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November 20, 2009 5:46pm
getstaffed

To the best of my knowledge, and correcting a rather excited comment the other day, European imperialism has blighted the Middle East since 1798. That’s 200 years, and we wonder why they haven’t developed more.

Yeah, that’s what I hear them all complaining about in Dubai.
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November 20, 2009 5:50pm
Chthoniid

Technically, I think progress in the Muslim world hit the wall in the wake of the Mongol invasions. Before then the medieval Muslim world was quite advanced, made brilliant progress in the fields of astronomy, mathematics (algebra anyone), medicine and political philosophy.

The Mongol invasions effectively split the old Abbasid caliphate into a Mongol (Ilkhanid) then Persian (12er Shi’te) area, based in Khurasan, and a more Sunni Turco-Arab area. The increase in military conflict caused a massive diversion of resources away from learning and culture. In Salah al-Din’s time, Egypt supported about 5000 professional cavalry (ghilman, or toassin). The 12th-13th C saw an expansion in hospitals and colleges (madras). By the Mameluke era in the 15th C, Egypt was supporting 40,000 professional cavalry and the taxation was oppressive. But such military expansion was necessary to confront the Mongol khanates.

Within that context however, the Muslim world still threatened eastern Europe. Hungary fell after Mohacs in the early 16th C, whilst major expeditions were still organised into the 17th C against Vienna (and the Hapsburg empire). The relationship between the Muslim world of the NE and Christian Europe is complex and multi-faceted. It is rather simplistic to label one side as more imperialistic that the other.
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November 20, 2009 6:09pm
Luc Hansen

@ Jack5 again

Don’t worry, I’m just as down on Greek imperialism, Roman Imperialism, Ottoman imperialism, Chinese imperialism…but the most recent is, of course, European and I am European. And I might say, I’m damned glad to be European after what we have been up to for the last few centuries!

Still waiting to see what you want to do about Islam that’s different to what I advocate, which is, first and foremost, freedom from us.
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November 20, 2009 6:12pm
Luc Hansen

Chthoniid said…it is rather simplistic to label one side as more imperialistic that the other.

Have I missed something? Who said that?
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November 20, 2009 6:14pm
Sonny Blount

I defend the right of Muslim countries to their religion and to self determination

I certainly don’t. If another culture or nation stones women to death for silly reasons or threatens the lives of others then they must be stopped. And if the coercion they require to stop is death then so be it.

Where we have the power we should sort this behaviour out. Just because it doesn’t directly affect me doesn’t make it acceptable.

The argument of being able to find crimes by others is rather silly, if a criminal identifies a wrong by another, it does not make either wrong ok. And if you say why fix some of the world instead of all of the world then you will never fix any of it.

Acceptance of barbarism is not cultural tolerance, it is turning the other cheek out of cowardice and indecision.
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November 20, 2009 6:39pm
Luc Hansen

Another typical getstaffed comment. Pick put an exception and make it the rule. Add Kuwait. Lots and lots of oil and relatively small population.

You make an art form out of sniping but never actually contribute anything meaningful, in my opinion.

By the way, Chthoniid, that’s a good contribution above, I should have added earlier.
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November 20, 2009 6:45pm
Luc Hansen

OOH Sonny, Sonny, Sonny! Welcome!

Tell me, tell me do, you say they must be stopped, what do we do?

The Vietnam syndrome of destroying the village in order to save it?
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November 20, 2009 6:47pm
getstaffed

Another typical getstaffed comment

Luc, I just can be bothered with your hatred and bigotry. At one stage I took you seriously (even if not agreeing), but not now.

If anyone who expresses an opinion that you disagree with with to be lambasted with insults (c.f. “All I’ve seen from Jack, Tom, RightNow, getstaffed, is their usual noise and filth”, “The white supremacists here…”) then your ranting will just have to go unanswered.

Here’s a suggestion: Open your other eye and find fault where there is fault to be found (eg Islam’s mandated treatment of women) and then perhaps, just perhaps, you’ll be taken more seriously.
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November 20, 2009 6:59pm
Redbaiter

“If anyone who expresses an opinion that you disagree with with to be lambasted with insults (c.f. “All I’ve seen from Jack, Tom, RightNow, getstaffed, is their usual noise and filth”, “The white supremacists here…”) then your ranting will just have to go unanswered.”

Don’t be such a fucking wimp. Go after these arrogant sneering condescending bastards. They have no shame. You want them to keep winning? No. So go after them.
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November 20, 2009 7:05pm
getstaffed

“..Last time you showed your face in public I hear you had to scuttle off like a cowardly rat..”

do tell..!

Short memory phil? Read about it here. You will recall that you’re the ‘obnoxious ass‘ in the story.

The story concludes:

The reaction from aforementioned obnoxious ass was simply spectacular. He stood up called us all racists and anti-semites, forgetting that he had just 5 minutes before been telling how evil the Jewish State was for killing innocent Palestinians. He then stormed off muttering and screaming to resounding applause and high fives from all the rest of us.
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November 20, 2009 7:11pm
Hurf Durf

Hey Puke, this one’s for you.

Smuggling into the Gaza Strip from Egypt beneath the Philadelphi Corridor has returned to the busy levels that prevailed before Operation Cast Lead last winter, The Jerusalem Post has learned. Estimates of how many tunnels are now functioning range from several hundred to 1,000, although the most authoritative figures indicate that between 350 and 500 are currently operating. The IDF claimed to have destroyed about 300 tunnels duringCast Lead. Israel has long asserted that the Egyptians could put an end to the entire smuggling industry within 24 hours if they wanted to, using military obstructions along the length of the Philadelphi Corridor.

And as Omri Ceren points out:

Israel will object to the international community. That objection will be ignored. Then the IAF will have to launch one of their periodic anti-tunnel bombing raids. That’s how it’s been since the end of Cast Lead, as far back as March: rocket fire that eventually hit a synagogue, followed by a complaint to the UN, followed by nothing, followed by the inevitable. And when it happens again I have no doubt that the international community will react with exactly the self-reflection and fairness that we’ve all come to expect.
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November 20, 2009 7:12pm
getstaffed

Don’t be such a fucking wimp. Go after these arrogant sneering condescending bastards. They have no shame. You want them to keep winning? No. So go after them.

*sigh* You’re right of couse red. It’s just sometimes I don’t have the time and/or energy to fight defensive battles, and in Luc’s case he is well read on Middle East history coupled with a creative imagination and a well honed revisionist translation ability. Jack5 continues to knowledgeably push back against his hatred, which is good.
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November 20, 2009 7:24pm
philu

this is for kkk…all the other god botherers..

and those who like to laugh..

it is the master..

george carlin

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/george-carlin-religion-is-bullshit/

just watched this .. again..

it is very funny..!

(and gets five stars ..and has had over 6 million views)

his rendition of the ten commandments .. down to one..

..is also worth seeking out..

in fact..anything by george carlin is worth seeking out..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 20, 2009 7:28pm
Jack5

Re getstaffed at 7.24….

If this guy Hansen’s first name is really “Luc” his problems may well stem from being teased through childhood by calls of “Lucy”.

It would also explain his threatening to run for teacher/mummy (Red Boris in the case of this thread) when the heat goes on.
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November 20, 2009 7:30pm
philu

big fan of anti-semitism are you stuffed..?

like ‘jew-jokes’..?

just sit and laugh along..?

d’ya..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 20, 2009 7:32pm
Luc Hansen

getstaffed said ” Here’s a suggestion: Open your other eye and find fault where there is fault to be found (eg Islam’s mandated treatment of women) and then perhaps, just perhaps, you’ll be taken more seriously.”

Open your own eyes and actually read what I write. Above you will find that I said find all religion foolish – I should have added tragic. I said, or thought I said, I dislike and reject much of Islam’s practices, not just the treatment of women. I wish they would disown the violence inherent in the Koran, but most Muslims do by their actions, anyway. I do not demonise over 1b people for the actions of a few. I support military action against Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. I do not support military action against civilians.

I repeat, I uphold equal human rights for all, including the freedom from attack from their parents for Kiwi kids, and including Muslims.

Do you?

Now go ahead, find a tangent out of that.
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November 20, 2009 7:37pm
Jack5

C’mon Philu, have a laugh at yourself occasionally.

From your reported performance at the outing (Hurf Durf’s 7.11 link), what would happen if you were caught short at a border post between Israel and Palestine? You would pee yourself while you jigged from one leg to the other trying to decide whether to go to the Palestine WC or the Israel one.
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November 20, 2009 7:37pm
Pete George

So by the look of things Tony Blair is not going to be head of the world government. Another conspiracy will pop up to take it’s place no doubt.
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November 20, 2009 7:42pm
Jack5

Labour’s just about ended its run in Britain, too. Election in May they reckon.
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November 20, 2009 7:47pm
Redbaiter

” It’s just sometimes I don’t have the time and/or energy to fight defensive battles, ”

Yep fair enuff tiger. I know what you mean. These leftist morons are probably all not working as well, so have time to spare.

But remember this-

Never defend. Always attack. Attack attack attack.

Let the Progressives know we are coming after them.
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November 20, 2009 7:49pm
getstaffed

I said, or thought I said, I dislike and reject much of Islam’s practices, not just the treatment of women

No Luc. You are a terminal apologist for Islam’s heinous value system. Only when cornered in a rate like a cage you do quickly jumble together a fictitious ‘statement of belief’ like your 7:37 comment citing what you dislike (presumably hoping no one will actually read it…). That’s your ‘Personal Brand’ pal. Have the guts to admit it. I guess you’ll call this a tanget. Go right ahead.

Edit: Red – heh!
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November 20, 2009 7:56pm
Pete George

Let the Progressives know we are coming after them.

Go tiger. Don’t forget to put your dentures in, especially the fangy ones. You’ll really get places by attacking the majority.

Attack (yawn) attack (yawn) attack (yawn) with nothing of substance. The wishy washy war. Nothing to defend.
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November 20, 2009 8:04pm
philu

and is that it..?..red..?

that’s as far as your thinking goes..?

empty..meet vacuous..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 20, 2009 8:11pm
Luc Hansen

getstaffed, you have simply fulfilled my expectations. Well done.

Now I think I have sussed out all the Muslim bashers here today and the only conclusion I can come to is that you are all seriously deluded. You equate my defence of Arabs and Muslim human rights, which we advocate for ourselves, to support for all they do. That is distortion, writ large.

Just what do you have against my suggestion that we get out of their lands? It would be instructive to hear.

But I won’t hold my breath. You and the others I have mentioned just don’t present a serious argument. It’s all totally destructive; nothing at all constructive.

Except Sonny. His option is genocide. At least he is upfront and doesn’t appear to cower behind a pseudonym.

Hurf, your point? Is it that because Hamas fire rockets, this justifies wholesale slaughter of civilians? Please answer.

By the way, I just watched a news item that showed Palestinians in Gaza stocking up on tinned and preserved food in anticipation of the next Israeli onslaught. They say they got caught by surprise last time, but they are already resigned to the next massacre. I wonder what Israel’s excuse will be this time, not that it really matters. Impunity comes with US protection in the Security Council.

Anyone want to change the subject and get back to where we started, morning sex?
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November 20, 2009 8:43pm
Steve

Yeah well nothing like a dawnbreaker
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November 20, 2009 9:01pm
Hurf Durf

Haha, Delirium thinks he’s a majority. Cute.

Just what do you have against my suggestion that we get out of their lands?

They won’t stop there, clown, no matter how hard Fisk whines.
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November 20, 2009 9:04pm
getstaffed

Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples appeared to today indicate Mr Harawira would be allowed to stay in the party, saying it had coped with disagreements before.

Who would have thought: A racist man being given quarter by a racist party.

Pita: This is not a about a ‘disagreement’. This is about you condoning blatant racism from one of your representatives. Hang your head in shame.
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November 20, 2009 9:06pm
tom hunter

Getstaffed

Luc, I just can’t be bothered with your hatred and bigotry. At one stage I took you seriously (even if not agreeing), but not now.

Indeed. Soon after Luc turned up in early October, quoting Fisk, Finklestein, et al, I commented that:

I think that you’ve attempted to indulge in their debating style – the misdirections, the throwaway soundbites, the refusal to argue on point, and of course the constant implication that your debating opponent operates from the most base of motives while indulging in special pleading about the need for civility.

But given your sad attempts here it would seem that you just don’t have the chops to pull it off.

And it has not changed. The lawyer F.E Smith – mostly known on this site for his passionate defense of the current criminal justice system (e.g not exactly a fire-breathing right-winger) – took Luc to the woodshed a few nights ago over his puddle-deep knowledge of the last 1000 years of Islamic history and the Crusades. I believe he applied the word “bigot”, which seemed entirely earned.

Today we witnessed the hilarity of the Pilger-driven “pipeline conspiracy” of 2001 – an idea so detached from reality that it never even gained traction in far-left groups inclined to believe it was possible.

But when Luc’s under debating pressure he’ll pull anything out of his arse.

From now on I’ll stick with mockery:

“The president of the ” Leader of the Free World” gloats over the impending revenge execution of a terrorist.”
Racist.

“Let’s ignore sex with young girls. Many many countries allow sex nowadays with girls as young as 13”
Misogynist – at a minimum.

“…I’m going to forward your comment to the Human Rights Commission for their opinion”
Liberal Progressive.

What I am defending is the ~~Muslims~~ South Africans right to work through their own issues, in their own lands.
Bold Defender of Global Human Rights.
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November 20, 2009 9:08pm
Hurf Durf

And of course, there’s always the idea of Gazans not supporting Hamas thuggery – that they’re just “hostages” of Zionist aggression. Bollocks writ large. Always conveniently ignoring that the “mass slaughter” of Cast Lead was a few thousand out of a million people.

Billions of dollars of Western aid to “rebuild” – for what? So they could spend all that money on dozens of missiles? Imagine where Hamas would be if it weren’t for their Western water carriers.
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November 20, 2009 9:13pm
Steve

getstaffed,

Read the lines, Hone has leverage. He will not go independent as I thought.
Hone will crash anyone who stops him fro Supreme Leader of the Maori Party.
Little deal with Tainui and Hone will be President of Aotearoa.
In your dreams HARAWIRA, you racist germ
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November 20, 2009 9:14pm
getstaffed

At least he is upfront and doesn’t appear to cower behind a pseudonym

Luc, care to post up your full name, address and phone number? Or are you hypocritically cowering behind a pseudonym while attempting to belittle those that choose to keep their private details private?

Hint: ‘Luc Hansen’ doesn’t appear in Whitepages and your blog doesn’t have any personal details, save for an email address of luchansen@live.com. In the spirit of equal disclosure, mine is getstaffed@live.com , and my photo is here
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November 20, 2009 9:19pm
Steve

What’s in the yellow bag? getstaffed
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November 20, 2009 9:22pm
getstaffed

tom – your comment was well on the mark.

Steve – yes. Hone just says, rather undiplomatically, what most of the racist Maori party members think, but won’t say. At least he doesn’t try to cloak his racism is delicate political prose. Yellow bag has yummy Boerewors
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November 20, 2009 9:25pm
Steve

If I dare reverse that political prose I get branded
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November 20, 2009 9:29pm
Ross Nixon

A bit late in the day to add some “breaking news”, but I couldn’t hold back…

Climate scam busted wide open!
Someone has hacked/released 62MB of private correspondence and files from the climate alarmists at East Anglia’s CRU.
It was uploaded to a Russian FTP server, and it is spreading around file-sharing sites.

Now their scheming and data-fudging is no longer hearsay. You can see them discussing it.

This is big!
The National Examiner’s article on this is here. http://is.gd/4ZqiI
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7806 has more comments and quotes from the leaked correspondence.
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November 20, 2009 9:36pm
Hurf Durf

Ross:

Hahaha, the bastards! I hope this is real, this will cause public support for this con to plummet.
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November 20, 2009 9:48pm
getstaffed

Ross, yes I’ve been digging on that today. There’s lots more to come on this

And in related news, the US ETS claims a significate victim: The Columbia Falls Aluminum Company in Montana (once the largest in the world) has shut down its aluminum production because it cannot purchase the necessary electrical power to continue its operations

Hurf – don’t count on it. Our ‘elected’ dictators will simply push ahead despite any increased criticism. Too much as stake for them personally.
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November 20, 2009 9:54pm
Steve

For General Debate tomorrow:

Phool, go fuck yourself.
Devil dodgers can do the same, you wankers need a room to spit the religious bullshit into.
Yeah you you you.
Never has there been so much bloodshed as in the kingdom of God.
Stick it where the Global Sun don’t shine
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November 20, 2009 10:17pm
getstaffed

Ross et al, re that climate data being hacked:

The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.

In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
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November 20, 2009 10:48pm
Luc Hansen

From Hurf: Always conveniently ignoring that the “mass slaughter” of Cast Lead was a few thousand out of a million people.

So Hurf, what’s your definition of mass slaughter? Is 3000 dead, out of around 320 million, in the Twin Towers mass slaughter? Was 168 dead in the Oklahoma bombing , mass slaughter? Hell, was 5 killed in the Bain family in Dunedin mass slaughter? In my book, yes to all. Maybe to you only if you were one of the victims. It’s always just so much easier when it never happens to us, isn’t it?

But it is refreshing that you do see the Zionist aggression that is always evident. I think, in fact, that that term is becoming increasingly passe. Over 50% of non-Arab Israelis are Israel born. I have no idea of the proportion of Palestinians outside Israel born since 1948, or even 1967 (Khalid Meshal vividly remembers the trek into the West Bank from his centuries old village to escape Israeli bullets), but it must be much, much higher. These future generations will one day usher in peace and coexistence and I wish them all well.

From Tom: The lawyer F.E Smith – mostly known on this site for his passionate defense of the current criminal justice system (e.g not exactly a fire-breathing right-winger) – took Luc to the woodshed a few nights ago over his puddle-deep knowledge of the last 1000 years of Islamic history and the Crusades.

Yep, too many wines that night and I got sprung good and proper. But what struck me is that that is all your passionate lawyer got me on: a misspeak, as Hillary would say. I feel pretty good about that 🙂

Bigot: from Wikipedia “The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.” If advocacy of equal human rights for all, including mad fundamentalist Pastors and Mullahs, so be it. But maybe you should look in the mirror. it’s called projection.

And Tom, yes, I supported the right of South Africans to work through their own problems, in their own lands. The majority South Africans. Like 30,000,000 to 3,000,000 majority. Yes, black South Africans.

getstaffed, don’t you worry, I am sure if you were a debt collector you would find me, no problem. If you really want reassurance about my bona fides, ask DPF to contact me so he can then set your little mind at rest while retaining security for my family.

Have I missed anyone?

😉
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November 20, 2009 10:56pm
Luc Hansen

National Examiner – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
17 Oct 2009 … The National Examiner is a supermarket tabloid owned by the American Media Corporation. Like other tabloids, its contents have often come …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Examiner – Cached – Similar –

And TBR…ah, ANDREI!

Why am I not surprised…
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November 20, 2009 11:01pm
getstaffed

Wow ‘Luc’.

You claim to be posting under your own name, while hiding behind a pseudonym. You are the only commenter I’ve seen here at Kiwiblog who’s lied like this.

You win the brazen hypocrite of the month award.
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November 20, 2009 11:15pm
Hurf Durf

Is 3000 dead, out of around 320 million, in the Twin Towers mass slaughter? Was 168 dead in the Oklahoma bombing , mass slaughter? Hell, was 5 killed in the Bain family in Dunedin mass slaughter? In my book, yes to all. Maybe to you only if you were one of the victims. It’s always just so much easier when it never happens to us, isn’t it?

Considering that most of the people involved in that were killed, whereas most of the people in Gaza were not killed, those are three pretty bad examples.

And if by “Zionist aggression,” you mean “Israel’s right to self-defence” then yes I do see it.

Over 50% of non-Arab Israelis are Israel born. I have no idea of the proportion of Palestinians outside Israel born since 1948, or even 1967 (Khalid Meshal vividly remembers the trek into the West Bank from his centuries old village to escape Israeli bullets), but it must be much, much higher. These future generations will one day usher in peace and coexistence and I wish them all well.

Blaming dem immigrunts? How progressive.

while retaining security for my family.

How cute, Puke wants to retain security for his family. Of course, people in Beersheba aren’t afforded that luxury because they’re racist imperialist Zionists.
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November 20, 2009 11:22pm
Ryan Sproull

What do you call a fly without any wings?
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November 20, 2009 11:34pm
Ryan Sproull

A walk!
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November 20, 2009 11:34pm
Luc Hansen

getstaffed

that’s called projection. It’s a term used in psychology.

Hurf, what are you saying. That everyone, including women and children, in Gaza were a target?

The people in Beersheba could try what we are doing over here – return land to the indigenous people.
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November 20, 2009 11:35pm
getstaffed

Luc, no it’s called lying. That’s a term used in every day life.
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November 20, 2009 11:36pm
Luc Hansen

Chthoniid (718) Vote: Add rating 20 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 20th, 2009 at 8:06 am

Just a quick couple of shots before the mayhem begins.

********************************************

You gotta admire the foresight 🙂
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November 20, 2009 11:37pm
Luc Hansen

getstaffed, you really should getreal

But, if you are correct, I wish the IRD would send those demands to the real Luc Hansen!
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November 20, 2009 11:39pm
Hurf Durf

That everyone, including women and children, in Gaza were a target?

In a warzone, potentially everyone is a target. The IDF’s attempts to minimise civilian casualties in an Egyptian-created ghetto are admirable and should be congratulated.

The people in Beersheba could try what we are doing over here – return land to the indigenous people.

Oh yes? Does that include the land on which your house is situated?

And, of course, after you show them the deeds you’ll more than approve when the Army of the People of the Land start firing missiles at your house because, after all, they’re fighting for justice!
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November 20, 2009 11:40pm
Luc Hansen

Hurf said: The IDF’s attempts to minimise civilian casualties in an Egyptian-created ghetto are admirable.

Whatever delusion takes your fancy. Opening the war by killing traffic cops and kids leaving school. The modern napalm, white phosphorous, used against schools, hospitals, UN buildings. Have you actually read any of the Goldstone report? It takes a strong stomach.

Gaza has actually existed since time immemorial. Modern Egypt has never claimed ownership of the land or granted the people Egyptian citizenship. Unlike Jordan and the West Bank, it never annexed Gaza after 1948.

And unlike Israel and Palestinians, we have arrived at a peaceful process of reconciliation and reparation with Maori, so long as we continue that process for as long as it takes.

And also unlike you, I don’t see the issue of historic Palestine as an either/or scenario. History is replete with examples of former bitter enemies reconciling.

Peace be upon you, comrade.
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November 20, 2009 11:56pm
Hurf Durf

The Goldstone Report? Sorry, I know agitprop when I see it. And considering the UN is made up of third world shitholes, much like “Palestine,” I have no truck with such organisations.

Gaza has actually existed since time immemorial.

Of course it has.
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November 21, 2009 12:02am
Luc Hansen

You seem to be in a reasonable mood tonight, Hurf, for you. So may I ask what is your preferred solution to the Israel/Palestine debacle?
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November 21, 2009 12:10am
tom hunter

Yep, too many wines that night and I got sprung good and proper. But what struck me is that that is all your passionate lawyer got me on: a misspeak, as Hillary would say. I feel pretty good about that

Oh please. Smith referenced merely the last of several of your ignorant rants about Crusades vs. Jihad and the 1095 date, all of which were equally hysterical in the style of your hero Fisk. Each of those were rants several sentences long. A “misspeak” is when a word is misplaced (someone meant Iran not Iraq).

But why should I be surprised. I wasted time checking one of your rebuttal links to a story in the JPost and I wrote up the results last night in a quick post. But since you seem to read little of your material or links, let alone the responses, I’ll put it up to you again.

The enduringamerica link is about exposing the story of a rape-before-execution sanction, supposedly issued by some key religious adviser in Iran – as having started as a piece of black comedy satire on an Iranian website.

The JPost story is a reporter talking by telephone to a member of the Iranian Basiji militia, who had just been released from jail for having set free two kids – a 13-year-old boy and a 15-year-old girl – who had been arrested during those protests against the rigged elections in June. He talks about the rapes he has performed.

Even though Ryan provided the link to the latter story I figure I have to tell you the gist because if you had actually read the article you would have realised that they’re about two completely different stories. I’ve bolded that last as an additional attention getter for you
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November 21, 2009 12:13am
Hurf Durf

Israel retains its current borders and also absorbs the Golan Heights. Gaza is annexed by Egypt, West Bank by Jordan. Both countries take over administration and security of their new territories. Egyptian and Jordanian security forces and police take over. Direct rule by central authorities is enacted. The old leadership is purged, the terrorists among them arrested and dealt with, and they inject (with US, EU and Israeli financial support if proven to be 100% abiding by these rules) economic and infrastructure development into the new territories. Families shown to have no connection to Pali terrorism given financial incentives to move into Egypt or Jordan proper to reduce the population density. Local government gradually enacted if extremism seen to be properly expunged.

These are just off the top of my head. If done properly, Israel/Palestine won’t be an issue in five years.
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November 21, 2009 12:21am
Ryan Sproull

If done properly, Palestine won’t be in five years.
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November 21, 2009 12:24am
Hurf Durf

Palestine hasn’t been viable for sixty years. They had their chance for statehood. They blew it.
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November 21, 2009 12:26am
Luc Hansen

Thanks Tom. I stand by my postings except for that one sentence. Tell FE Smith to by all means return. There are three sides to every story, as we know. I only ever lay claim to one.

And we are supposed to believe that a Basiji militia member just happened to contact a JPost reporter, or vice versa.

You may believe in fairies, I don’t.

I believe lots of bad things about Muslim and Iranian practices but nothing emanating from JPost. Did it make Haaretz?
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November 21, 2009 12:26am
Luc Hansen

Thanks Hurf

But they are still there, so what next?
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November 21, 2009 12:27am
Luc Hansen

Sorry Hurf, I missed your earlier post.
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November 21, 2009 12:32am
getstaffed

The great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ had a problem with his new book.

The back/front cover opens out to show a picture of the Earth, complete with hurricanes and Arctic ice as shown in the first photo, which is from the Amazon press release. One hurricane and plenty of Arctic ice.

Now the great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ must have decided that the photo needed some work before the public release, so out came photoshop and, as shown in the second photo, lots of scary hurricanes and, hey, where’s the Arctic ice?!? BTW, hurricanes are at a 30 years low positively confounding those who claim they are somehow connect to CO2 emmissions.

The great profit Algore (All credits be to him)™ is a fraud, a charlatan and is completely bereft of integrity.
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November 21, 2009 12:39am
Luc Hansen

There are just a couple of problems with your scenario, Hurf.

First, there is the overwhelming international consensus of the two state solution based on the June 4 1967 armistice lines.

Second, Egypt has never shown any interest in annexing Gaza, and Jordan has agreed to borders with Israel and relinquished all claims to the West Bank.

I am not getting into the rest of your post because the points I have raised make them irrelevant.

My final point is this: Palestinians, in spite of the constant Israeli occupation, dispossession and oppression, are hanging in there. It took Maori in NZ a long time to start to get redress and I think you will find Palestinians just as resilient.
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November 21, 2009 12:47am
Hurf Durf

I’m basing it on what’s most practical and sensible, not on what’s “fair” or “just.”

As for the Palis, 12.26am sums it up best. They’re only “hanging in there” because Israel has chosen to exercise phenomenal restraint and haven’t kicked all of them out of there for being incapable of governing them sensibly and because Egypt and Jordan has seen what happens when a shitload of Palis move in (see Lebanon and Jordan in the 1970s) to know they want them to keep the fuck away. So the best thing for both? Keep them locked up in a pair of ghettoes. That’s politics for you.
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November 21, 2009 12:51am
Luc Hansen

getstaffed, what is the basis for your assertion and straw man argument?

This is from Pew research:

Is the frequency of hurricanes increasing?

Globally (not just in the North Atlantic), there is an average of about 90 tropical storms every year. According to the 2007 Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC-AR4), globally “[t]here is no clear trend in the annual numbers [i.e. frequency] of tropical cyclones.”

However, in the North Atlantic there has been a clear increase in the frequency of tropical storms and major hurricanes. From 1850-1990, the long-term average number of tropical storms was about 10, including about 5 hurricanes. For the period of 1998-2007, the average is about 15 tropical storms per year, including about 8 hurricanes. This increase in frequency correlates strongly with the rise in North Atlantic sea surface temperature, and recent peer-reviewed scientific studies link this temperature increase to global warming.

There is an ongoing scientific debate about the link between increased North Atlantic hurricane activity and global warming. The 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change rates the probability of such a link as “more likely than not.” (end quote)

If Al Gore presented “more likely than not” as a cast iron certainty then he is certainly in the wrong. But so are you, it seems.

The IPCC say there is no direct link between specific weather events and global warming but, over time, trends emerge consistent with global warming projections.
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November 21, 2009 12:56am
Luc Hansen

But Hurf,

South African whites tried that and look what happened there.

Israel has not exercised “phenomenal restraint” as you say; rather, it is constrained by the international community from completing the ethnic cleansing/genocide it really wishes for. And that constraint will always be a constant.

The periodic massacres of Lebanese and Palestinians Israel is so fond of will only serve to increase the resolve of the international community and when the US finally swings into line, Israel will have to get real.

However, I expect a lot more Arab blood to flow before this is resolved, so sad.

Let’s just agree to disagree and move on.
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November 21, 2009 1:05am
Hurf Durf

Israel is not South Africa, no matter how much you progressives want it to be.

Also completing something implies that it has started. I hope you have some evidence for that phenomenal claim or I shall be forwarding your comments to the Human Rights Commission.
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November 21, 2009 1:18am

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