General Debate 21 December 2009

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Yvette

A NEW CHRISTMAS TRICK

WARNING FROM POLICE – THIS APPLIES TO BOTH WOMEN AND MEN    
BEWARE OF PAPER ON THE BACK WINDOW OF YOUR VEHICLE

NEW WAY TO DO CAR-JACKINGS
 You walk across the parking lot, unlock your car and get inside. You start the engine and shift into Reverse. When you look into the rear-view mirror to back out of your parking space, you notice a piece of paper stuck to the middle of the rear window. So, you shift into Park, unlock your doors, and jump out of your car to remove that paper (or whatever it is) that is obstructing your view. When you reach the back of your car, that is when the carjackers appear out of nowhere, jump into your car and take off. They practically mow you down as they speed off in your car. And guess what, ladies? I bet your purse is still in the car. So now the carjacker has your car, your home address, your money, and your keys… Your home and your whole identity are now compromised!  BEWARE OF THIS NEW SCHEME THAT IS NOW BEING USED…  If you see a piece of paper stuck to your back window, just drive away. Remove the paper later. And be thankful that you read this e-mail. I hope you will forward this to friends and family, especially to women. A purse contains all kinds of personal information and identification documents, and you certainly do NOT want this to fall into the wrong hands.  Please keep this going and tell all your friends
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December 21, 2009 10:58am
andrei

More religious extremism in Godzone. Now there are some religious nutters hanging of the MFAT buiding in Wellington apparently.

Where will it end?
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December 21, 2009 10:58am
Monty

Has Labour actually achieved anything this year? That have moaned a lot and Goof has faked anger at every little utterance of John Key for the entire year but really his (and the Labour impact has been near zero.

Languishing at 30% in the polls Labour are thankfully in a no win position. mainly ignored, national are getting on with the job of undoing 9 years of socialism and the best thing is that he is doing it in such a way that the sheeple of NZ do not even realise it.
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December 21, 2009 11:00am
Redbaiter

NZ Herald editorial on Copenhagen-

“If there is a silver lining, it is that so many leaders felt compelled to travel to Denmark to acknowledge something must be done about climate change. The unanimity at this level meant the conference could not be a total failure.”

More chicanery and deceit from this contemptible rag that has never sought to bring the public the truth on AGW, but has instead made itself part of the deception.

The writer deliberately ignores the well known fact that most of the undeveloped nations attended because they anticipated a lolly scramble with the developed nations providing the lollies.

AGW is nothing but a fraud that is itself falling apart because of rampant cronyism and greed. You won’t ever read this in the Herald though, a propagandizing Progressive broadsheet that, in a complete betrayal of traditional journalism, has positioned itself well and truly on the side of the fraudsters scammers and cronyists.

More sanctimony and lies from the mainstream media. Who is surprised?
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December 21, 2009 11:02am
Redbaiter

” Now there are some religious nutters hanging of the MFAT buiding in Wellington apparently. ”

So right. Where are all the “protectors of private property rights” on this one??
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December 21, 2009 11:04am
PinkGina

Twas the night of Thanksgiving and out of the house,
Tiger Woods came a flyin’, chased by his spouse.

She wielded a nine iron and wasn’t too merry,
Cause a bimbo’s phone number was in his Blackberry.

He’d been cheatin’ on Elin, and the story progressed,
Woman after woman stepped up and confessed.

He’d been cheatin’ with Holly, and Jaimee, and Cori,
With Joselyn, and Kalika – the world had the story.

From the top of the Tour to the basement of blues,
Tiger’s sad sordid tale was all over the news.

With hostesses and waitresses, he had lots of sex,
When not in their pants, he was sendin’ them texts.

Despite all his cryin’ and beggin’ and pleadin’,
Tiger’s wife went investin’ – a new home in Sweden .

And I heard her exclaim from her white Escalade,
“If you’re gettin’laid, then I’m gettin’ paid.”

She is not pouting – she’s of jolly good cheer,
Her prenup made Christmas come early this year.
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December 21, 2009 11:06am
Pete George

Yvette, that is a regular email hoax.

Public urged to delete carjacking email – http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/21832.html

NZ even gets a mention on it in http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/carjack.asp
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December 21, 2009 11:06am
Chthoniid

Yvette- check out Snopes for internet scams. This has been doing the rounds for years.

The US origin is indicated by the phrase “parking lot”.
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December 21, 2009 11:07am
Redbaiter

“Yvette- check out Snopes for internet scams.”

They’re right in this instance, but hardly worthy of any plaudits as anyone with a working brain cell can usually detect the lack of authenticity in these emails.

That said, Snopes is just a husband and wife team, with no particular skill set that qualifies them as professional authenticators, and they’re liberal mindset and Democrat political connections are factors that cast a growing shadow over their claimed objectivity.

They have a completely undeserved reputation as fraud busters, especially when they’re major players themselves in the Obama birth certificate scam. Sure, Snopes can be helpful, but they’re by no means unchallengeable.
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December 21, 2009 11:17am
reid

Anyone been following the Iran/Iraq oil well situation?

I wonder if there’ll be an attack on an Iraqi radio station?
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December 21, 2009 11:20am
goonix

Oh so Snopes is in on the vast socialist conspiracy too? lol. Just lol.
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December 21, 2009 11:20am
Yvette

OK, I see
“New Zealand experienced a resurgence of the rumour in 2009 when a version in circulation included the NZ Police logo . . . ” Snopes
well, the logo bit was true.

Thank you everyone
[ Yep, It is probably better to get screwed over on kiwiblog than at night in a parking lot ]
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December 21, 2009 11:24am
Monty

Paul Henry oversteeped the Mark with Retard comment – this is so funny – and the quote

“TVNZ’s head of news and current affairs, Anthony Flannery, said TVNZ was sorry.

“We apologise to those who were hurt and distressed by it.”

But he said in 600 hours of live TV each year, Henry rarely overstepped the mark. ”

The leftards will hate this – he oversteps the mark every day and that is why he is so popular and the best morning NZ TV ever.
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December 21, 2009 11:24am
Pete George

Yvette, Redbaiter is right about one thing, it is easy to learn to recognise these sort of hoax emails. Overuse of CAPS, warnings about weird things, non-local terms are common signals. And any email that urges you to pass it on (“tell all your friends”) is highly suspect.

A simple way to check them is to do a google on some key words from the email plus “hoax” and it will confirm for you.
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December 21, 2009 11:32am
Paulus

Have heard from senior Aussie friend in UN in NY that BanKM is taking enormous internal flak “for not using his power and authority” in Copenhagen. Seems all playing into Clarkies hands.
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December 21, 2009 11:37am
Pete George

Oh, and Yvette, if you want to test this method, try a google on: obama birth certificate hoax
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December 21, 2009 11:37am
tristanb

Why would you believe ANY of these forwarded emails? Have any ever been true? Have the police EVER got out information by telling people to “forward this to all your friends”?

BTW, does anyone know how to do a Western Union transfer? I’m keeping it quiet, but I’ve been contacted by African royalty and stand to make a heap of cash helping them out.
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December 21, 2009 11:38am
Fletch

Looking for evidence of global warming in the news? Instead I found these items over the last few days –

Five Deaths As Snow Sweeps Across America

Winter Cold Snap Jolts Europe, Worse To Come

They even had to shut the Eiffel Tower because of it.

Rail Passengers Spend Cold, Dark Night Stranded in Chunnel

Yep, passengers were stranded in the Channel Tunnel for a night because four trains stopped working. The reason?

Eurostar spokesmen said the breakdowns occurred when the trains, leaving freezing temperatures in France, hit the warmer, damp underwater atmosphere of the Channel tunnel, causing the electrical systems to seize up.

Temperatures continued to drop in Britain, and travel conditions worsened on British roads, especially the main highway from Dover, the English road terminal for the Channel tunnel, to London, where signs Saturday night warned motorists of delays of four hours or more.

A severe cold front has gripped the country for several days, causing the closure Saturday of several busy airports, including London Gatwick and Luton.

So much for global warming…
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December 21, 2009 11:46am
MikeMan

BTW, does anyone know how to do a Western Union transfer? I’m keeping it quiet, but I’ve been contacted by African royalty and stand to make a heap of cash helping them out.

Tristan.

It is a VERY complicated process, please forward me the account details for the African Royals and the funds via NZ bank transfer and I will handle all of the details for you 🙂
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December 21, 2009 11:50am
Fletch

‘Western Union…do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do. do-do-do-do-do’

Sorry, every time I see the Western Union sign that Monkeys song goes through my head.
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December 21, 2009 11:53am
Murray

Nice to see Geeenpeas get some of their own back at them. apaprently they didn’t like it either.

Another boo hoo moment from the left.
http://www.theospark.net/2009/12/video-cfact-drops-banner-on-greenpeace.html
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December 21, 2009 11:53am
Tassman

Open greetings to all concern!

I may have written the analysis of the Republic according to its modern affairs, but there is a brand new video out on ‘The Fall of the Republic’ which discloses what the global government stands for. The super structure of the NWO is already in place. I figured that the National’s sweetening of the Maori Party and the Super City is preparing NZ towards this NWO.
And one of those structures involves security, and the Internet. Anyone who connects to the Intern looses his/her privacy. It was the topic of this website a little while ago, yet with technology some of the participants in here have used the same technology to obtain private information and use it against their targets. So who exactly is risking security is not the ordinary surfer but the so-called professionals themselves to advance their political agenda.

Well, I did say that Western Civilisation is on the slide, and I have absolutely nothing to hide…. I am very helpful with the truth and have real evidence. I have a website in here http://www.noonchorus-blogspot.com and in here http://www.gihtrust.co.nz/

So if you are really clued up and all that powerful, why then are you beating up on the ordinary innocent folks when your target lies with the invasive corporate powers of banks, finance, and multinationals?

Or is it that you are full of it that you have no idea of what you’re doing……
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December 21, 2009 11:59am
Pete George

FFS Fletch, next thing you will be claiming temperatures dropping at night are proof of something you are trying to push.
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December 21, 2009 12:00pm
Murray

Don’t make eye contact and back away.
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December 21, 2009 12:01pm
Sonny Blount

FFS Pete,

Next thing you know the IPCC will be claiming hurricanes as proof of something they are trying to push.

http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/LandseaResignationLetterFromIPCC.htm
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December 21, 2009 12:01pm
Sonny Blount

More religious extremism in Godzone. Now there are some religious nutters hanging of the MFAT buiding in Wellington apparently.

Where will it end?

I hope someone sends them the bill for the police time. Come to think of it, maybe they are in collusion with the gangs who are out burglarising about now.

I’m going down there to tell them what I think of them
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December 21, 2009 12:04pm
Tassman

I thought so…

My blog is here http://www.noonchorus-june.blogspot.com
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December 21, 2009 12:04pm
Pete George

Sonny, that letter is dated 2005.
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December 21, 2009 12:05pm
Inventory2

Fletch said “‘Western Union…do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do. do-do-do-do-do’

Sorry, every time I see the Western Union sign that Monkeys song goes through my head. ”

Except Fletch, it wasn’t the Monkees! I’m not 100% sure, but Jay and the Americans rings a bell ….
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December 21, 2009 12:08pm
RightNow

Pete…so what?
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December 21, 2009 12:20pm
Steve

Pete George @ 11.32
“A simple way to check them is to do a google on some key words from the email plus “hoax” and it will confirm for you”

Google “Cop15 Hoax” and have a wander/wonder around
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December 21, 2009 12:32pm
Rick Rowling

I wish climate change skeptics didn’t (so often) sound so much like evolution skeptics.

I’m not saying they’re wrong, just that it’s a shame that the method often comes out the same:

“here is a theory with many very complex variables, many predictions from many researchers and enormous amounts of data. *This* example doesn’t line up with *that* prediction, therefore the *entire* theory is bunk.”

/unconvinced either way, but less than impressed with wattsupwiththat type web sites…
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December 21, 2009 12:59pm
malcolm

Good luck, Rick.
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December 21, 2009 1:05pm
Pete George

RN – and Sonny et al have brought up already about 2005 times. I would have thought they would be bringing up something current, like who plagiarised who, Wegman or Rapp.
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December 21, 2009 1:05pm
Murray

When the climate hysteria merchants stop lying maybe people will stop pointing it out.

Reality and truth don’t date as much as the lying assed left would like them too.
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December 21, 2009 1:10pm
RightNow

Pete, from March 2009, this ‘minority report’ names 700 scientists who disagree with the doomist’s view.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9

“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future
warming.” – Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi
University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace
member.

“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers
higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large
number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished
without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the
U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian
geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.

“Nature’s regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less
moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary
balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr.
Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was
once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself
solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate
changes after the fact.” – Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in
man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC
committee.

By the way, if we want to talk about ‘consensus’, this trumps the 50 or so scientists that contibute to the IPCC’s official stance. “The over 700 dissenting scientists are now more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.”
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December 21, 2009 1:25pm
jag

@ Rick,

The other side of the fence being guys like John Darroch (the guy who was strapped to the MFAT building in the name of Climate Change this morning).

A quick browse of his Flicker account (bit.ly/5qbNMQ) is enough to suggest he is the absolute definition of a rent-a-crowder with interests ranging from anti-free trade marches to banning duck shooting to union strikes to anti-animal testing to climate change action.

I’m not firmly in either Climate camp (‘apostles’ or ‘deniers’) but I have to say that guys like Darroch “championing” a cause are an absolute turn off for me – no matter what the cause.

The best thing that those in favour of action on Climate Change can do is drop these ex-Socialists, Maoist, Marxists, and miscellaneous rent-a-crowders. Is it really any wonder that people fear that there is a secret social agenda driving this whole debacle
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December 21, 2009 1:26pm
Pete George

Deep Climate has been doing some detective work and has found an extraordinary similarity between a paragraph of the Wegman Report (which demonstrated that the Hockey Stick algorithm was wrong) and a paragraph of a book written by a sceptic physicist, Donald Rapp.

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/12/18/the-heights-of-bizarre.html

Not just a paragraph.

Pages 2-9 in Rapp’s book seem to be copied verbatim (with some additions) from Wegman. It’s much too similar to be a coincidence. The text is not indicated as a quote and, even if it was, this is quite beyond what would be acceptable.
(Ori)

I’ve also had a look at the first section, on tree rings, comparing the Wegman report with the relevant section in Dr. Rapp’s book. I have to agree with Watchman: these pages need a citation to Wegman. It’s over 700 words with only a few modifications, nearly verbatim.
(Ted Carmichael )

I think the bigger question is why Springer would publish such drivel, with all sorts of dubious references and phrases like “global warming alarmist”. Imagine the uproar among contrarians if a textbook contained the word “global warming denier” to describe people like Rapp.
(MarkB )

An unsubstantiated claim has been made that Wegman copied from a book draft which would be more serious.
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December 21, 2009 1:27pm
Murray

God you’re desperate.
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December 21, 2009 1:35pm
RightNow

Pete, it sounds like an act of of plagiarism, in which case it is a matter for the courts.
Similarly if some scientists are guilty of obtaining moneys by deceit (perhaps by faking research in order to secure grants) they should be before the courts.
Also if someone is guilty of obstructing a Freedom of Information Act request they should also be before the courts.

Most importantly is who do you trust? I most certainly do not trust the AGW doomsayers, they have too much big money encouraging them to fudge the facts, and their track record to date indicates they’re very, very wrong.
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December 21, 2009 1:38pm
RRM

Geez Pete, it’s only dodgy when the “Pro AGW camp” is doing it. Try to keep up.
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December 21, 2009 1:40pm
Brian Smaller

‘Western Union…do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do. do-do-do-do-do’

Sorry, every time I see the Western Union sign that Monkeys song goes through my head.

When I see the Western Union sign I see Somali bag men sending thousands of dollars of benefit cash back home via the ANZ in Lower Hutt, and that song sometimes now you mention it.
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December 21, 2009 1:42pm
Ed Snack

Pete, quoting a raving out and out nutter like Deepclimate, who has trouble enunciating his name for all the spittle flying with the abuse, is not doing your case any good. DC is just an example of the old “if you can’t attack their science, attack the person” schtick that is so completely prevalent in warmenist thinking today.

DC has finally caught on to the idea that Wegman’s report excoriated Mann and supported the view that the “hockeystick” is a “hokeystick”, so rather belatedly he sets out to muddy the waters. Rap’s book was published 2 years after the Wegman report, and the report was cited in the book as a source. At least by using Wegman Rap has some chance of quoting an honest source, which wouldn’t have occurred had he, for example, used Realclimate instead.
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December 21, 2009 1:44pm
Pete George

Yes, it does sound most like a case of plagiarism. It’s dodgy when anyone does it. It’s also dodgy in a purported textbook to be openly referring to “global warming alarmist”.

I think this is most likely minor – like most of the so-called email scandal. If something like this had surfaced against a mainstream climate scientist we would probably have a problem with global foaming at the mouth by now.

Ed – Deep Climate might have gotten the blame around the wrong way, but he is obviously correct about significant amounts of copied text.

DC may have jumped to conclusions because Wegman is known to have not correctly attributed sources eg to Wikipedia.
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December 21, 2009 1:46pm
MikeNZ

Tassman
Give my regards to aidie and I’ll visit him and the others in prison.
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December 21, 2009 1:48pm
Fletch

Inventory2, hmmm you’re right.
Google says it was The Five Americans.
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December 21, 2009 1:51pm
RightNow

Dr. Edward Wegman—former chairman of the Committee on Applied and Theoretical Statistics of the National Academy of Sciences—demolishes the famous “hockey stick” graph that launched the global warming panic.
Dr. David Bromwich—president of the International Commission on Polar Meteorology—says “it’s hard to see a global warming signal from the mainland of Antarctica right now.”
Prof. Paul Reiter—Chief of Insects and Infectious Diseases at the famed Pasteur Institute—says “no major scientist with any long record in this field” accepts Al Gore’s claim that global warming spreads mosquito-borne diseases.
Prof. Hendrik Tennekes—former director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute—states “there exists no sound theoretical framework for climate predictability studies” used for global warming forecasts.
Dr. Christopher Landsea—past chairman of the American Meteorological Society’s Committee on Tropical Meteorology and Tropical Cyclones—says “there are no known scientific studies that show a conclusive physical link between global warming and observed hurricane frequency and intensity.”
Dr. Antonino Zichichi—one of the world’s foremost physicists, former president of the European Physical Society, who discovered nuclear antimatter—calls global warming models “incoherent and invalid.”
Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski—world-renowned expert on the ancient ice cores used in climate research—says the U.N. “based its global-warming hypothesis on arbitrary assumptions and these assumptions, it is now clear, are false.”
Prof. Tom V. Segalstad—head of the Geological Museum, University of Oslo—says “most leading geologists” know the U.N.’s views “of Earth processes are implausible.”
Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu–founding director of the International Arctic Research Center, twice named one of the “1,000 Most Cited Scientists,” says much “Arctic warming during the last half of the last century is due to natural change.”
Dr. Claude Allegre—member, U.S. National Academy of Sciences and French Academy of Science, he was among the first to sound the alarm on the dangers of global warming. His view now: “The cause of this climate change is unknown.”
Dr. Richard Lindzen–Professor of Meteorology at M.I.T., member, the National Research Council Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate, says global warming alarmists “are trumpeting catastrophes that couldn’t happen even if the models were right.”
Dr. Habibullo Abdussamatov–head of the space research laboratory of the Russian Academy of Science’s Pulkovo Observatory and of the International Space Station’s Astrometria project says “the common view that man’s industrial activity is a deciding factor in global warming has emerged from a misinterpretation of cause and effect relations.”
Dr. Richard Tol–Principal researcher at the Institute for Environmental Studies at Vrije Universiteit, and Adjunct Professor at the Center for Integrated Study of the Human Dimensions of Global Change, at Carnegie Mellon University, calls the most influential global warming report of all time “preposterous . . . alarmist and incompetent.”
Dr. Sami Solanki–director and scientific member at the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research in Germany, who argues that changes in the Sun’s state, not human activity, may be the principal cause of global warming: “The sun has been at its strongest over the past 60 years and may now be affecting global temperatures.”
Prof. Freeman Dyson—one of the world’s most eminent physicists says the models used to justify global warming alarmism are “full of fudge factors” and “do not begin to describe the real world.”
Dr. Eigils Friis-Christensen–director of the Danish National Space Centre, vice-president of the International Association of Geomagnetism and Aeronomy, who argues that changes in the Sun’s behavior could account for most of the warming attributed by the UN to man-made CO2.
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December 21, 2009 2:12pm
Elijah Lineberry

The NZ Herald reports that it was money from illegal drugs trafficking which kept many banks afloat during the financial crisis of the last couple of years.

Some foreigner called Antonio Maria Costa – head of the United Nations Drugs and Crime department, says some $352 billion of drug profits entered the financial system and was just what the Doctor ordered in terms of providing liquidity! hahaha!

I am not sure whether this is a case for legalisation ($352 billion in profits means the War on Drugs is well and truly lost) or a case for continued prohibition (to provide ongoing liquidity for struggling banks! hahaha!)

http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
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December 21, 2009 2:25pm
jag

As far as I’m aware the “drug” that has propped up investment banks in the last 18 months has been high-frequency trading.

In saying that, high-frequency trading isn’t exactly the most honest dollar earned.

The only trafficking associated with that is of human labour in the form of PhD’s in Quantitative stats.
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December 21, 2009 2:36pm
malcolm

I am not sure whether this is a case for legalisation … or a case for continued prohibition …

Or just an example of The Broken Window Fallacy.
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December 21, 2009 2:44pm
hj

RightNow (557) Says:
December 21st, 2009 at 2:12 pm

“Dr. Edward Wegman—former chairman of the Committee on Applied and Theoretical Statistics of the National Academy of Sciences—demolishes the famous “hockey stick” graph that launched the global warming panic.”

Is that the short list?
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December 21, 2009 2:46pm
Pete George

I bet this surprises a few people.

No advantage in learning to read from five

Children who learn to read at age five are unlikely to be better readers than children who learn to read at seven, according to new research.

Research by Sebastian Suggate for his doctorate in psychology at Otago University found no difference between the reading ability of early (from age five) and late (from age seven) readers by the time those children reached their last year at primary school.
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December 21, 2009 3:50pm
Sonny Blount

So you won’t be teaching your kids to read until after they’ve started school then Pete?
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December 21, 2009 3:53pm
Pete George

It’s a bit late for that Sonny. It doesn’t say learning earlier makes them worse off, just not better off. The good thing about this is it could mean the first few years at school may be good for turning around kids who start without encouragement to learn.
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December 21, 2009 3:58pm
Sonny Blount

first few years at school may be good for turning around kids who start without encouragement to learn.

Thats a good point Pete. Let’s hope that the lazy parents don’t read it as a good reason to delay their teaching.

Although it sounds like an interesting result that provokes further investigation and explanation.
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December 21, 2009 4:58pm
Fletch

Has anyone else with Freeview discovered TV3Plus1?
It’s the TV3 channel, but delayed an hour – Can be useful eg, miss the TV3 News at 6pm, and you can watch it on TV3Plus1 at 7pm.

It’d be cool if TV1 and TV2 had it as well.
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December 21, 2009 7:38pm
wreck1080

Record snowfalls in the USA.

30 people freeze to death in Europe.

Eurostar cancelled due to extreme cold snap.

Global warming my A**.
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December 22, 2009 7:40am
Pete George

How thick some people are, or are they just acting it, surely they can’t be that stupid. Tremain does the same bozo act in today’s cartoon. Winter sort of happens every year. Fletch posted something similar at 11.46 and it gets 25 votes – are there that many dumb people here? Or do they use any excuse to vote against AGW no matter how ridiculous the post?

It’s warmer here today than it was yesterday. That means as much – ie nothing as far as global temperatures and climate are concerned.
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December 22, 2009 7:55am
Sonny Blount

Or do they use any excuse to vote against AGW no matter how ridiculous the post?

Pete, of course they do. And AGW disciples do the same, I heard on National Radio yesterday claims that people had already died due to global warming in Africa, this is simply a disgusting thing to say IMO.

The majority of people here disagree with AGW theory, and believe it to be very damaging. Our facts are in political competition with your beliefs. This is the same as cheering when Australia One sank, when club sides beat the Springboks, or when a competing company loses a client.

Its quite normal.
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December 22, 2009 8:32am
Pete George

So people who criticise our politicians when they talk bullshit are no better themselves? Many of the “facts” are in competition with reality.

It seems to be win at all costs and stuff the consequences, and stuff any collateral damage. It’s very sad that blatant dishonesty is seen as simple a means to an end.

But it explains why there is so much repeat bulshit here.
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December 22, 2009 8:57am
Sonny Blount

Why the reporting of ordinary winter effects is important in the AGW debate:

W.R. Keatinge and G.C. Donaldson of Queen Mary’s School of Medicine and Dentistry at the University of London note: “Cold-related deaths are far more numerous than heat-related deaths in the United States, Europe, and almost all countries outside the tropics, and almost all of them are due to common illnesses that are increased by cold.”

CO2 Science summarizes the Southern Medical Journal study:

Keatinge and Donaldson report that coronary and cerebral thrombosis account for about half of all cold-related deaths, and that respiratory diseases account for approximately half the rest. With respect to the first of these sets of problems, they say that cold stress causes an increase in arterial thrombosis “because the blood becomes more concentrated, and so more liable to clot during exposure to cold.” The sequence of events, as they describe it, is that “the body’s first adjustment to cold stress is to shut down blood flow to the skin to conserve body heat,” which “produces an excess of blood in central parts of the body,” and that to correct for this effect, “salt and water are moved out from the blood into tissue spaces,” leaving behind “increased levels of red cells, white cells, platelets and fibrinogen” that lead to increased viscosity of the blood and a greater risk of clotting.

Keatinge and Donaldson report that “even in climates as warm as southern Europe or North Carolina [USA], cold weather causes more deaths than hot weather.” They also note that “rising temperatures could reduce overall mortality rates.”

Another important study by two UK health bodies, the Department of Health (DoH) and the Health Protection Agency (HPA) released this year provides additional evidence that cold weather is by far the greater threat to health and life. However, the media spin on the DOH/HPA report, Health Effects of Climate Change in the UK 2008, presented headlines that completely contradicted the findings of the report. “Climate change soon could kill thousands in UK,” declared the Guardian.

British writer Rob Lyons summarized important data from the DOH/HPA report:

Actual experience over nearly 40 years suggests good news overall. For example, “mean annual heat-related mortality did not rise as summers warmed from 1971 to 2003.” That means we’re able to adapt to warmer temperatures. Indeed, the authors note: “Heat-related mortalities are substantial throughout Europe, but the hot summers in southern Europe cause little more mortality than the milder summers of more northerly regions.” If we’re prepared for warm weather and we take simple precautions, then heat shouldn’t be a problem.

So, for different UK regions, the authors estimate the following decline for hot weather-related fatalities (cases per million of population, 1971-2003):

• South-east England from 258 to 193 in 2003;

• Rest of England and Wales from 188 to 93;

• Scotland from 125 (in 1974) to only eight in 2003.

Meanwhile, deaths due to cold weather fell dramatically – overall, by more than 33 per cent. Far more people are affected by cold snaps than by heatwaves, so the change is more significant than for hot-weather deaths. Here is how cold-weather deaths fell between 1971 and 2003:

• South-east England from 9,174 to 5,903;

• Rest of England and Wales from 9,222 to 6,088;

• Scotland from 9,751 in 1974 to 6,166 in 2003.

As Rob Lyons notes, the declining mortality rates and the concomitant temperature increases should be cause for rejoicing, not hand-wringing:

We should be shouting this from the rooftops: far fewer people are dying because of the temperature than in the past. Milder winters are far more important than hotter summers in achieving this, along with other changes to how people live….

If warm weather is that bad, why does it seem to be the dream of every retiring person in Britain to move to the south coast or, better still, Spain or Australia? Unsurprisingly, in a temperate country accustomed to miserable weather, with cold winters and often poor-quality housing, higher temperatures are almost certain to have a net benefit for the UK. Yet this doesn’t fit in with the general atmosphere of climate change alarmism that encloses newspapers like the Guardian. Even the BBC, which is hardly shy about climate alarmism, gave the story a more balanced headline: “Global warming ‘may cut deaths.'”

An October 2007 article by S. Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery, “Health Fears About Global Warming Are Unfounded,” assembles an impressive array of research confirming the “cold is deadlier” thesis. Dr. Singer, a noted author, geophysicist, professor of environmental sciences, and former director of the U.S. Weather Satellite Service, and Avery, an agricultural economist and environmental researcher, contend that that the Earth’s moderate warming is not anthropogenic (man-made) and has been and will continue to be a net benefit to human health. Singer and Avery write:

There are certainly deaths and illnesses due to heat waves. These typically include heat stroke, heart attacks, and asthma attacks. Deaths and hospitalizations from heat waves make headlines whenever the temperature hits very high levels.

Yet we see the same sort of headlines during cold waves. The elderly die in inadequately heated homes. People get skull fractures from falls on the ice. Men die of heart attacks while shoveling snow. People get colds, flu, pneumonia, and other respiratory diseases. Infectious diseases proliferate. Hospital admissions rise.

“Global warming alarmists present the fairly simplistic theory that higher temperatures will drive more extreme weather events, and these events will raise human death rates,” say Singer and Avery. “But overall, cold weather is more effective at killing people than heat waves.”

Global warming, they point out, would raise maximum summer temperatures modestly while it would raise winter minimum temperatures significantly. Both factors should help reduce human death rates.

“From 1979 to 1997, extreme cold killed roughly twice as many Americans as heat waves, according to Indur Goklany of the U.S. Department of the Interior,” Singer and Avery write. “Cold spells, in other words, are twice as dangerous to our health as hot weather.” (Emphasis added.)

They continue:

….

In Germany, heat waves were found to reduce overall mortality rates slightly, while cold spells led to a significant increase in deaths.

The German authors say the longer a cold spell lasts, the more pronounced the excess mortality – and the higher death rates seem to persist for weeks.

Hot spells, in contrast, cause a short surge in deaths followed by a period of lower death rates that persists for more than two weeks.

95,000 Excess U.S. Deaths during the Cold Months Each Year

22 12 2008

Guest post by Indur Goklany

Now that the cold weather is here, we should remember that more Americans die during the cold months than at any other time of year, notwithstanding any global warming.

The figure below, which is based on data from the US National Center for Health Statistics for 2001-2007, shows that on average 7,200 Americans die each day during the months of December, January, February and March, compared to the average 6,400 who die daily during the rest of the year. On this basis, there were 95,000 “excess” deaths during the 121 days in the cold months (December to March, assuming a non-leap year).

So bundle up if you go outside, and keep warm indoors as well.
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December 22, 2009 9:04am
Sonny Blount

It seems to be win at all costs and stuff the consequences, and stuff any collateral damage. It’s very sad that blatant dishonesty is seen as simple a means to an end.

Yes indeed Pete, it is very sad what the AGW crowd are doing. There will be significant upheavel and lasting damage within the scientific community when it all unravels.
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December 22, 2009 9:08am
Pete George

The anti crowd seem to be leading the charge to defeat reasonable debate.
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December 22, 2009 9:24am
Fletch

How thick some people are, or are they just acting it, surely they can’t be that stupid

Pete, the only ‘stupid’ people are those who believe mindlessly without looking into it themselves and seeing the facts.

OPEN YOUR EYES!

The fact is that the science is not settled. There are people who believe differently on both sides. What comes across as a sure indicator of the truth is the lengths the warming believers have gone to – fudging results & graphs, using standover tactics against journal editors, silencing and removing dissenting reporters at Copenhagen, rewriting hundreds of wiki articles to try and get rid of the medieval warming period, pushing of the AGW message by leaders who stand to make billions – I really could go on and on.

As I said, the science may not be settled one way or the other, but the human actions around the subject are all that’s needed by someone with open eyes to see the truth.

If everything was as you say then there’d be no need for fudging of data, for lying and all the other unscrupulous actions we’re seeing.

I’m sure as they’re leading us all up against the wall to be shot, you’ll still be saying you are right.
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December 22, 2009 12:39pm
Pete George

If everything was as you say

What do I say Fletch, have you ever taken any notice? You seem to keep making assumptions, I don’t know what they are based on but it doesn’t seem to be reality.

I know the science is not settled, it never will be. I also know the weather is not always settled, hence some places get snow in winter, regardless of whether there is any AGW or not. That’s the point I was making, it seems stupid to say “huh, it’s snowing somewhere, that proves something about climate trends”. If that is the level of your understanding on this issue it doesn’t give a lot of confidence about whatever else you keep repeating.

I’m sure as they’re leading us all up against the wall to be shot, you’ll still be saying you are right.

I’ll be saying I’m right about what? You seem to be paranoid.
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December 22, 2009 12:55pm

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