General Debate 2 February 2010

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Don the Kiwi

See the govt. has signed up to Jokenhagen.

I’m pretty pissed about that. I guess we’ll all have to foment an uprising.

TO THE BARRIERS!!
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February 2, 2010 9:20am
Manolo

I listened to Nick’s Smith interview on NewstalkZB this morning defending the government’s decision to sign-up to Copenhagen.
He wouldn’t do it on his own, so it must be something empty-suit Key himself has approved.

It is a poor decision that will translate into higher taxes for the rest of us. Taxes to be paid via more expensive petrol, higher electricity rates, and increased cost of living.

Key was elected on the promise of not to raise taxes. Here it goes, up in smoke, another empty promise by his spineless government. Shame on the National Party.
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February 2, 2010 9:31am
Brian Smaller

I guess that answers the oft asked question: When will National repeal the ETS? Never.
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February 2, 2010 9:35am
Pete George

Key was elected on the promise of not to raise taxes. Here it goes, up in smoke, another empty promise by his spineless government.

What have they raised that wasn’t already put in place by Labour?
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February 2, 2010 9:39am
Patrick Starr

I understand Bernie Madoff said his only regret was he didnt think of an ETS first
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February 2, 2010 9:43am
MikeNZ

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/printarticle.cfm/ignoring–climategate–15339

If you read the puff piece on Global warming and Climategate in the Dompost his morning here’s some relevant reading.
Thank God for Curmudgeon to add some perspective.
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February 2, 2010 9:43am
Hagues

Pete George “What have they raised that wasn’t already put in place by Labour?”

They replaced Labours ETS with their own one (when they could have canned it altogether). So any ETS tax raises that come in are due to National’s ETS.
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February 2, 2010 9:45am
peterwn

Broadband again. Vector retained the right to install communications cables on Wellington power poles when it sold off the network. Interestingly, Vector did quite a bit of pole upgrading in Wellington prior to this, which struck me as a bit odd, as poles being replaced were concrete poles in reasonable condition, and the old MED was notorious for being conservatively engineered. I think I now see why, this helps ensure that a Vextor comms cable can be carried without too much pole upgrading at the time..

As the Government is sponsoring the projects, presumably related resource consent applications for a broadband network on power poles will be ‘called in’ by the Government. John Banks in Auckland has expressed firm opposition to this when he was previously Mayor.
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February 2, 2010 9:48am
Captain Neurotic

So… the Select Committee for Maori Affairs on how to reduce Maori smoking rates is on the way at the moment… shall we celebrate by sharing stories about Hone’s bro Shane Bradbrook?

I listened to him speak the other week and I quote… Q: “Have you read the decision of Poh v BAT?” A: “Yeah, bullshit decision! Some cop out excuse about her personal choice to smoke as the dangers of smoking were well known… ”

He further went on to speak about how smoking should be banned in NZ by 2013… but not crimilised… nor enforced…

The guy is a complete loony who has no concept of how to solve a problem except to blame a corporation…
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February 2, 2010 9:48am
MikeNZ

Do the Chinese get it on Climate Change?
http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/02/the_chinese_get_it_on_climate.html

Do you think Key will ever get it?
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February 2, 2010 9:49am
dime

havent heard much about the “fire at will” law. toad promised me numerous examples of employees being hard done by.
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February 2, 2010 9:52am
Murray

You didn’t expect a socialist to honour a commitment though did you dime?

They only exist at all due to the short term memory of the great unwashed.
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February 2, 2010 9:55am
Patrick Starr

“if all the nations of the world cut their carbon emissions by 30 per cent, at a cost of trillions of dollars, mostly to the West, it would stop global temperatures from rising by 0.02 Celsius. You couldn’t even measure it with a thermometer”

……….classic

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/ten-antianticommandments-and-lord-moncktons-verbal-bombs-20100201-n72y.html
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February 2, 2010 10:00am
Manolo

I wonder that after a few days DPF is kind enough to tell us the conclusion he reached in his “provocative” article on the ETS.
Has seen the light and recognised AGW is bogus, a hoax, nothing but a scam, a con, a pretext to hike taxes? Could that be possible? 🙂

Is DPF breaking ranks from the official National Party line?
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February 2, 2010 10:16am
MikeNZ

Anyone got a birthday on Feb 11th
Seems the Iranians are planning a fireworks display maybe?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/02/iran_will_deliver_telling_blow.html

Not sure about Iran and Liberty though.
“The Islamic Revolution opened a window to liberty for the human race, which was trapped in the dead ends of materialism,” Ahmadinejad said during a cabinet meeting on Sunday.
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February 2, 2010 10:17am
dime

murray – of course not. just my way of pointing out that the lefts hysteria over the law was unjustified.
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February 2, 2010 10:22am
dime

From Stratfor:

Russian aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi announced Jan. 29 the first flight of the PAK-FA, its latest design. A fifth-generation configuration, the prototype incorporates stealth characteristics, advanced avionics and other state-of-the-art jet-fighter features. While it remains in a very preliminary stage of development, the design is significant because it means that Russia now has a fifth-generation test bed in the air.

Indeed, the Jan. 29 flight marks the first flying test bed of a stealth fighter outside of the United States

The airframe itself evinces considerable influence from the successful Sukhoi “Flanker” design dating back to the Su-27. Hence, important questions arise, including the extent to which the new design is superficially imposed over an Su-35 airframe (the latest model of the Flanker); the extent to which truly fifth-generation-quality technology will actually be included; and the extent to which the subsystems can be integrated (which was a significant challenge in the development of the American F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II). In praising the flight, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin pointed out that the engines remained a particularly challenging area.

In short, other than the very noteworthy rollout of what appears to be a next-generation airframe, little “under the hood” was revealed, and its radar cross section remains unclear. Nevertheless, the PAK-FA is a significant development and warrants considerable scrutiny as it moves forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA
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February 2, 2010 10:26am
Chicken Little

I’m pretty pissed about that. I guess we’ll all have to foment an uprising.

TO THE BARRIERS!!

Don – Looks like thats what it’s going to take.

Too much $$$$ involved for our soft-cock politicians to grow some balls.

Key can pledge/sign all he wants.

I pledge to do everything in my power to bring down National at the next election if they don’t repeal this stupid legislation.

If Key thinks a few squealing Leftie activists are bad, wait till he gets one very, very pissed off Rightie on his arse.
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February 2, 2010 10:29am
MikeNZ

dime
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/dc-comment/games-gwadar-643

It seems between the Russian stealth planes and the Chinese navy bases the future will be interesting.
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February 2, 2010 10:35am
Nefarious

I blame the romans.
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February 2, 2010 10:50am
Jaime Raine

http://comixed.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/129060759168382676.jpg
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February 2, 2010 11:11am
Dirty Rat

Great to see Chris Knox back playing last night, and Ian McCulloch is still the coolest man on the planet
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February 2, 2010 11:16am
dime

no ones cooler than izzy stradlin 🙂
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February 2, 2010 11:32am
Nefarious

except Frank Zappa
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February 2, 2010 11:36am
Pita

An interesting “News clip” by the BBC’s Charlie Brooker…Clearly or TVNZ has been taking lessons…Well worth a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGSXMuWMR4
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February 2, 2010 11:55am
menace

So smokers cost the health system 1.5 billion per year and if you do some math they also pay this much or perhaps even more through the taxs added to there tobaco prices.
In a free society it would appear that we have brought our right of choice OR?
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February 2, 2010 12:21pm
Manolo

“I pledge to do everything in my power to bring down National at the next election if they don’t repeal this stupid legislation.”

I make the same pledge now. I will use letters to the newspapers, to my MP, e-mails, phone calls, whatever it takes to help defeat the spineless National Party.
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February 2, 2010 12:56pm
Dirty Rat

dime (1765) Says:

February 2nd, 2010 at 11:32 am
no ones cooler than izzy stradlin

Does he play in Nickelback ?
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February 2, 2010 1:00pm
Dirty Rat

menace (121) Says:

February 2nd, 2010 at 12:21 pm
So smokers cost the health system 1.5 billion per year and if you do some math they also pay this much or perhaps even more through the taxs added to there tobaco prices.
In a free society it would appear that we have brought our right of choice OR?

As pointed out a few months ago, the Government makes a profit on tobacco tax. Smokers die young
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February 2, 2010 1:01pm
mawm

Chicken Little and Manola – the problem is who to vote for if not the gnats. Certainly none of the commies, not the racist party and ACT just don’t seem to get into the act.
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February 2, 2010 1:11pm
dime

hows this for a headline

“Jeb Bush is back, and some think he’s looking presidential”

HAHAHAHAHAHA fuck i would love nothing more than to see a 3rd bush as president!
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February 2, 2010 1:13pm
freethinker

Chicken Little (602) Says:
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:29 am
Manolo (1161) Says:
February 2nd, 2010 at 12:56 pm

Lets be democratic and ensure through signatures that binding referenda are enacted, prime ministers then will not require balls or brains the collective wisdom of the electorate will prevail and if they stuff up they will bear the cost instead of paying for the stuff ups of MPs.
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February 2, 2010 2:04pm
Chthoniid

@MikeNZ

… Churchianity gave us the inquisition. but then you know that.

http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/
Carnmer’s reply to Dawkins.

Apologies with the carry forward from yesterday’s debate. I’d just like to make a couple of quick comments.

First, the ‘true Xtian gambit’ and all variations of it, that asserts if anybody (or any institution) does wrong, they aren’t real or true Xtians is tiresome evasion.

Second, the whole point of Dawkin’s critique of theodicy is avoided by the good archbishops ad hominem attack on Dawkins. Read my link. Read the story of the 11 year old Haitian girl. Read the story of her suffering with her crushed leg- with not even unconsciousness there as a salve. She suffered pain right throughout her ordeal. And when she was rescued by human agents, your God reached down and killed her anyway, suffering to the last with a plea of ‘don’t let me die Mummy’.

That is the story that Cranmer was being challenged to defend- and 150,000 other stories like it. God’s hand was on the swtitch. One flick, and 150,000 people will die in a nasty way. And if you are are Xtian, then the story is, God flicked that switch.

And he made them suffer- like the girl above- he made sure that pain and fear would be all that were aware of in their last days. This is theodicide and in a time like this, theologians need an explanation. Because if any human had done this, they’d be indicted as a war criminal.

There’s a good reason why Dawkins does not critique Santa Claws or the Easter Bunny. It’s that groaning mass of human suffering and grief that is Haiti. But for Cranmer, the real outrage- the manufactured outrage- is that Dawkins isn’t moderate enough. Yeah, there’s a guy who has his priorities right.
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February 2, 2010 2:05pm
frankflintstone

So smokers cost the health system 1.5 billion per year and if you do some math they also pay this much or perhaps even more through the taxs added to there tobaco prices.
In a free society it would appear that we have brought our right of choice OR?

As pointed out a few months ago, the Government makes a profit on tobacco tax. Smokers die young

so smoking would never be banned as we’d have years of health costs and no income from it
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February 2, 2010 2:32pm
Komata

Frankflinstone,

As with cigarette / tobacco sales, likewise it is unlikely that the Drinking Age in this country will be raised any time soon, (despite what may be being said to the contrary) or that the price of Petrol and Diesel fuel will be lowered – the New Zealand government (irespective of political stripe), simply gets too much money from them in respect of taxation.

On that basis, would YOU kill (or at least maim) the goose that gives you golden eggs?
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February 2, 2010 3:41pm
david

Is John Key’s risk-taking history being felt? http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-business/nz-super-invests-in-catastrophe-bonds-20100202-na8r.html
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February 2, 2010 3:44pm
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

I’ve been on a month-long “Weblog Holiday”, with apologies to 10cc (if you ask who are 10cc are and why should I apologise, you’re too young to understand!).

Over the last month I’ve reduced my media consumption by 90% (internet down 60%, TV/radio now approaching nil), and to balance I increased reading, exercise and (lamentably) the quality and quantity of wine consumption. It’s been a great month!!

Not sure why I’m back. Oh BTW, what’s happened to karma here at KB?
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February 2, 2010 7:51pm
Viking2

TV news tonight reported a female had today exploded herself somewhere in some God forsaken Country ruled by the Islamists.
Pondering this I wondered what a female gets for the job. Males are after the 8 virgins apparently so the question is is the female bomber a lesbian and therefore from the Labour Party or is there some other incentive that we are yet to hear about.
Oh how the mind boggles.
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February 2, 2010 9:04pm
Hagues

krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed) “Oh BTW, what’s happened to karma here at KB?”

Can’t remember the exact computer jargon, but apparently it was attracting some sort of DOS or DOT attack. Been off for about a fortnight.
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February 2, 2010 10:35pm
MikeNZ

Chthoniid
Not at all we have eternity to go back and forth as you well know.
Why do you keep attributing suffering to being God’s deliberate action to/against people.
I’d like to know where were you hurt and by whom ?

If all your going to do is sound like a Dawkins person, always blaming the bad stuff against God as if that is His intention why should we engage with you, clearly your mind is made up.

You never attribute to the persons free will the consequences of their choices or actions, both on themselves or others, even your disparaging of the Christian evasion line (true xtrian gambit) in your 2nd para ignores the reality of Churchianity being man’s kingdom based around human politics and buildings and other “stuff”.

Not Christianity, which is based in/on an ongoing relationship with God through Jesus/Yeshua, you can call Him a myth or anything else you want but you know deep down in your soul that is a lie.
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February 3, 2010 5:32pm
krazykiwi (formerly getstaffed)

Hagues – Thanks for that
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February 3, 2010 7:28pm
Chthoniid

MikeNZ

Christianity makes a number of claims about the truthfulness of its doctrine, and attaches extraordinary consequences to not believing. Hence, I don’t see that there should be a problem testing the truth of those claims, especially in the ‘difficult cases’. There’s not much of a test in ‘easy cases’ afterall.

The question is simple (in the context of Isaiah 45:5-7). If we take the claim that God is benevolent and a morally pure being, why did he flatten Haiti? If any human agent had effected the same destruction and loss of human life, that person would be indicted as a war criminal.

I don’t share your presuppositions about having a soul, nor that introspection is a useful way to establish the truth of Christianity. Sorry.
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February 3, 2010 8:48pm

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