General Debate 22 March 2010

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KiwiGreg

Of course this is only reported because it involves Maori. If this were a non-Maori group paying themselves taxpayer money with no measurable outputs it wouldn’t even be news, but then it probably wouldn’t be happening either:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3483551/3m-project-on-hold-after-cash-doubts
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March 22, 2010 9:12am
Richard Hurst

The American protectionist lobby have fired their first shot against NZ:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/3483622/US-politicians-attack-NZ-deal

What a surprise: Its John Kerry joining the war on us. Better stop those evil Kiwis eh John?
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March 22, 2010 9:15am
Chuck Bird

Hon Rodney Hide, MP for Epsom

INVITES YOU

to his regular Epsom feedback forum

with special guest

Peter Shirtcliffe

(Retired businessman and Co-chair, Put MMP to the Vote)

to talk about the MMP Referendum

Monday 22 March 6.00pm-7.30pm

Mecca Cafe

Cnr Nuffield St and Remuera Rd

Newmarket

Free Entry. Cash bar and coffee available. Everyone welcome.

For more information phone Brian on 09 524 6173

Read more about Put MMP to the Vote at http://www.petershirtcliffe.co.nz

Peter Shirtcliffe CMG is a former chairman of
Telecom New Zealand and has held many other
leadership positions in New Zealand business. He
was also the founding chairman of the Enterprise
Education Foundation and later a trustee of the
Enterprise New Zealand Trust. He was awarded a
CMG in 1988 before receiving the New Zealand
Commemoration Medal in 1990.
Peter was the founder of Coalition for a Better
Government in 1993, working tirelessly to educate
New Zealanders about the perils of MMP.

Background on Peter’s Speech
The evening will start with the speeches at 6.30pm.Rodney will speak first for 10 minutes which will
be followed by Peter Shirtcliffe. There will be plenty of time for questions and debate. The formal part
of the evening will finish by 7.30pm.

Peter Shirtcliffe says the referendum process was muddled and designed more as a “tick-the-box”
exercise by a government which for now was in love with MMP rather than a process to give
New Zealanders the best electoral system.
“There is a real opportunity not only to throw MMP out but to deliver a Parliament of far fewer MPs
than we have now. First past the post, preferential voting and the supplementary member systems
can all run with 100 MPs. MMP cannot. “The government should be looking at reducing the size of
the House of Representatives –– in other words, giving more with less.” Shirtcliffe suggested that
people should be allowed to vote preferentially on the alternatives to MMP to ensure that there was
a strongly favoured alternative attracting an absolute majority of support. Mr Shirtcliffe said turnouts
at MMP elections had been considerably lower than in first-past-the-post elections, reflecting
widespread public disdain for MMP.

Visit Peter’s website http://www.petershirtcliffe.co.nz for more information

Free Entry. Cash bar and coffee available. Everyone welcome.
For more information phone Brian on 09 524 6173
Read more about Put MMP to the Vote at http://www.petershirtcliffe.co.nz
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March 22, 2010 9:16am
jcuknz

How sick is the Catholic Church you may well ask after you read http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21dowd.html?th&emc=th which tells of an inquisition by the church against American nuns who are finally speaking out about the real purpose of the church which is to look after the less fortunate in society. The church offering apologies but suggesting no penalty for sexual transgtressors while stuck in its anti-abortion mindset is willing to let millions suffer for want of a health care system. Religion is good but man perverts it.
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March 22, 2010 9:24am
Michaels

How the bloody hell am I supposed to have my morning coffee’s when some bastard has stolen my coffee grinder?!?!?!?
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March 22, 2010 9:34am
KiwiGreg

“How the bloody hell am I supposed to have my morning coffee’s when some bastard has stolen my coffee grinder?!?!?!?”

Pop down to Starbucks
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March 22, 2010 9:47am
KiwiGreg

“Peter was the founder of Coalition for a Better
Government in 1993, working tirelessly to educate
New Zealanders about the perils of MMP.”

But sadly doing it so ineptly as to play into the hands of the pro-MMP camp.
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March 22, 2010 9:48am
Michaels

Starbucks???
Oh please KiwiGreg, get some taste!!
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March 22, 2010 9:50am
MikeNZ

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5852952/a-revolutionary-proposal.thtml
Melanie Phillips once again goes against the tide.
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March 22, 2010 9:52am
Tassman

The killer of kiwi children’s dreams, the smiling Axeman, the PM is in contempt by proposing to change the law to ensure Justice doesn’t exercise its full capacity.

His steam roller is now aiming to cull the elderly, by depriving them from surgery in the public system.

Obviously, he wouldn’t be able to justify the reason why NZ SAS is joining the war of Afghanistan either.

He has to be accountable!

There is no existing universal authority to check on dictators and their despotic rule. The international like always jump up after the fact, and by then it’s too late.

I’m calling to expand the arm of the ICC to equip with an Audit organisation and access activities of individual nations especially when operating outside the parameters of Democracy and Moral Law.
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March 22, 2010 9:58am
RRM

Some suggestions for Pita Sharples, from a Pakeha former friend of the Maori Party, on some attractive alternatives to the “artificial” one-person-one-vote democratic system and all its “inequalities” that he might like to consider:

[1]
One Maori = 5 votes.
Anyone else = 1 vote.

No? How about

[2]
Maori Party (TM) = guaranteed 40 seats in the house, plus any it may happen to win through campaigning and actual votes.

It’s their country after all. Treaty of Waitangi obligations are meant to be a one-way street.

Unless he is being SERIOUSLY misrepresented by the radio news, I am not at all happy with what I have heard about Sharples this morning.
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March 22, 2010 10:00am
Tassman

The anti Caholic hype is a mass Media propaganda of the US Health Care bill. It is the Wooden Horse of a Socialist Liberalism movement, the ordinary folks have no idea what Nobama is up to.
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March 22, 2010 10:02am
RRM

^^^Anti Catholic hype?

Unprecedented revelations about systematic protection of perverts, and all Il Pape can say is “the answer’s more prayer, not holding people accountable for their misdeeds”.

Somehow you think this is “anti catholic”???

Say ten Hail Marys and be gone.
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March 22, 2010 10:06am
Tassman

Sharples means, one vote for one only representative of own people. That means, a Maori Party is there only for the good of the Maori people. Bugger anyone else let alone the Asians he claimed to feel sorry for!
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March 22, 2010 10:07am
eszett

Chuck Bird (913) Says:
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:16 am

Hon Rodney Hide, MP for Epsom
INVITES YOU
to his regular Epsom feedback forum
with special guest
Peter Shirtcliffe

(Retired businessman and Co-chair, Put MMP to the Vote)

to talk about the MMP Referendum
Monday 22 March 6.00pm-7.30pm
Mecca Cafe
Cnr Nuffield St and Remuera Rd
Newmarket

Isn’t it just too funny that ACT is inviting someone who, if he had his way, would reduce ACT to merely 1 MP?
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March 22, 2010 10:10am
MikeNZ

Tassman
When the UN is so corrupt against Israel, how can we believe that the ICC will be just and impartial in all spheres?

Here is another pointing to the madness of the wworld leaders and the UN.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=130141
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March 22, 2010 10:10am
MikeNZ

Tassman
I concur, the Maori party is racist in that it stands for Maori ahead of all New Zealanders.
Lets repeal the Maori seats and all law that has a racist component and favour a race over us all.
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March 22, 2010 10:11am
KiwiGreg

“Starbucks???
Oh please KiwiGreg, get some taste!!”

We actually have Island Coffee in the office but I dont really much care, I just need the caffeine so Starbucks is fine for me.
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March 22, 2010 10:12am
Kris K

More one eyed anti-Semitism from the UN head:

Ban Ki-Moon: Israel Must Stop Building On Occupied Land

RAMALLAH, West Bank — Visiting U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon said Saturday that Israeli settlement building anywhere on occupied land is illegal and must be stopped, while a Palestinian teenager was killed in clashes with Israeli troops elsewhere in the West Bank.

[…]

And no mention by Moon that the Israelis were using rubber bullets, or that the Palestinian [sic] youths were rioting and pelting Israeli forces with stones.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon demands Israel ends the Gaza blockade

Ban Ki-moon, the UN leader, condemned Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip saying it caused “unacceptable sufferings,” during a visit to territory.

The UN chief crossed into the Hamas-run territory to express solidarity with the plight of Palestinians living there and urged Israel to end its restrictions on access to narrow coastal strip.

“I have repeatedly made it quite clear to Israel’s leaders that the Israeli policy of closure is not sustainable and that it’s wrong. It causes unacceptable sufferings,” Mr Ban said.

[…]

I presume when he says, “It causes unacceptable sufferings”, he ignores the fact that if the Gaza blockade was relaxed it would cause “unacceptable sufferings” of Israeli citizens due to the resultant increase of terrorist activity against Israel.

Hypocrit of the very worst kind!

Good on Israel in telling him to ‘shove it’.
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March 22, 2010 10:21am
Pete George

A little ironic that one of the key minorities threatening the US healthcare bill were anti abortion Democrats. It seems like they have been “talked into” voting for the bill, which may just about ensure it passes.
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March 22, 2010 10:21am
Murray

I can solve all our energy issues. We harness Tassmans extreme hysteria and spin. Unlimited free energy!

Of course we’ll have to get the labour party to give him special troll leave.
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March 22, 2010 10:26am
Kris K

RRM 10:00 am,

Unless he is being SERIOUSLY misrepresented by the radio news, I am not at all happy with what I have heard about Sharples this morning.

Indeed, RRM.
More barely concealed racism from the same party that brought you the term ‘white MOFO’.
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March 22, 2010 10:31am
philu

you are really rooting for that end-times conflagration in the middle east..

aren’t you .. kkk..?

and why won’t you answer that question about ‘acceptable’/not ‘perverted’..(christian) heterosexual sexual practises..?

remember..?..the ‘fisting’-question..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 22, 2010 10:41am
Murray

Is Ban Ki-Moon demanding that the Egyptians lift their blockade?
Is he condeming the random rocket attacks in Israel that killed a Tai worker?
Is he demanding that Hamas stop smuggling arms into the area?
Is he demanding that Hamas stop using those arms to kill members of Fattah?
Is he just another anti-Semitic piece of crap heading an organisation that should hold its meetings at Wansee?
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March 22, 2010 10:44am
James Stephenson

I’m calling to expand the arm of the ICC to equip with an Audit organisation and access activities of individual nations especially when operating outside the parameters of Democracy and Moral Law.

What? When they can’t even come up with an umpire decision review system that works?
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March 22, 2010 11:19am
Brian Smaller

Israel needs to give the Gaza strip and West Bank back to the real owners. Egypt and Jordan. Oh yeah – they didn’t want them back.
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March 22, 2010 11:43am
Tassman

The ICC is valid only to no one’s interests! It is an independent authority sustained by its objective and prompted by an imperial category. It doesn’t have an army force to sanction its decision, and that’s why it is always undermined by the likes of US and other international bullies.

Justice for example in NZ is supposed to be independent, and not over ruled by the PM and his steam roller power. Currently, the PM is sitting on the family court, the Education court, and the health court for the elderly. Dictator anyone?
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March 22, 2010 12:12pm
Viking2

Like I said when we have the Maori Party pulling the Nats strings aided and abetted by the NZ National Maori party members no one else is going to get a fair hearing. Effectively Maori control parliament now. Time key and Co did what should have been done when MMP came about and removed the Maori seats. Racist in the extreme.
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March 22, 2010 12:29pm
Michaels

I am NEVER moving again…. God I hate moving house, such a waste of time.
Next time if there ever is a next time, Mrs Michaels is not going to bloody work!!!!
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March 22, 2010 1:20pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Obama just guaranteed that the Democrats are going to get wiped out at the upcoming USA elections this November.
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March 22, 2010 4:10pm
Grant Michael McKenna

I think that my US friends should stop complaining about Obamacare and look at the bright side- at least now they get to find out what is actually in the bill.
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March 22, 2010 5:47pm
noskire

A nice tribute to Margaret Moth on CNN http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/03/21/holmes.moth.obit.cnn?iref=allsearch
RIP.
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March 22, 2010 6:28pm
m@tt

DPF commenting on Trevor unfriending Metiria Turia on Facebook:
“And Trevor got so annoyed he unfriended her!! Seriously – just like a teenager does when they are in a huff.”
Trevor Unfriends Metiria

Presumably the ‘teenager in a huff’ comment now also applies to glorious leader?
Woman speaks after PM dumps her from Facebook

You should always think before you spin.
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March 22, 2010 6:36pm
Luc Hansen

Brian, you are not usually too stupid, so you need to just do some more research on your ME views. Transjordan and Palestine (and Lebanon, which never existed before WWI) were historically, before the Ottomans arrived, part of Syria, the province of Southern Syria. Under the Ottomans, about the last 600 years, they were independent provinces.

The British Mandate lumped the two into one for about three years, then separated them again. So Jordan never owned Syria. And Egypt has not controlled any part of Palestine for millenia, except for the opportunistic land grab in 1948, from which they were ejected in 1967, and, like Jordan, have since renounced any claim over any part of the OPT.

And of course we see the outright hypocrisy of the extremist fringe here when they denounce (quite correctly) denounce Iran for sentencing to death a stone thrower, after a trial, yet clap and stamp with joy when a Palestinian stone thrower is summarily executed.

Murray, anti-Semitic slurs are just so tiresome! You want to find anti-Semitism, go to Europe! But the answer to your questions are yes, except for the last.

There is only one party to this conflict that does not want a peace settlement, and that is Israel. While Hamas will never sign up to a permanent agreement that concedes the land forever (quite rightly, it does not believe it has the authority to bind future generations), it will sign up to a long term truce, and, unlike Israel, it adheres to its agreements.

You need to remember, the local never invited the Zionist thugs into their land, and the Arab Jews of the Middle East would still be happily residing in their ancestral home countries if the Zionists had never arrived and become entrenched through British support (or, probably more accurately, their withdrawal of support for, and attacks on, the local population).
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March 22, 2010 6:36pm
Luc Hansen

The Obscenity Known as the Member for Epsom

A letter published in the Waikato Times, Saturday, March 20, 2010.

Rodney Hide’s reported accusations that NIWA climate scientists deliberately destroyed crucial records in order to make false claims about temperature rise, are contemptible.

He’s throwing mud in the hope that enough of it sticks to leave an impression with the public that the climate science community is party to what he calls the hoax of global warming.

NIWA has nothing to hide. Its data is available on its website.

The processes used for any data adjustments needed because of changes in the sites of instruments in a location over the years are standard scientific procedure.

This is explained in great detail in the case of Hokitika, with further descriptions of other sites to follow. References are provided to relevant scientific papers. A politician baselessly and recklessly attacking respected scientists is not an edifying sight. Mr Hide strikes at some of the foundations of intellectual regard on which the functioning of society depends.

He makes no attempt to engage with the science – just throws around assertions of serious malpractice. Shame on him.

Bryan Walker

Hamilton

Well said Mr Walker.

You could have added that the idea of global temperature rise depending on some obscure site or sites in NZ, or any one or few sites anywhere, is risible.

Mind you, Mr Hide is the very model of a risible character.
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March 22, 2010 6:55pm
starboard

@ Matt…who gives a toss
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March 22, 2010 6:58pm
dad4justice

Just drove over the once mighty Waimak River. Haha call it a stream. Go fuck another river you dump arse kiwi fuckwits. When does the local tribe start hooking into the stream? This country is beyond hope!
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March 22, 2010 6:58pm
starboard

beaut night in Cant. tonite DFJ.
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March 22, 2010 7:04pm
Pete George

Just catching up with Back Benches from last week. Father Munane was wrong – they didn’t prove that harm is happening to people in Iraq on a day to day basis due to Waihopai. They didn’t have to prove anything.
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March 22, 2010 7:12pm
MikeNZ

Ban Ki-moon, the UN leader, condemned Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip saying it caused “unacceptable sufferings,” during a visit to territory.
KK
What a wanker this man is.
Why was the blockade enforced?
Shalit that’s why!
Has this turd ever insisted that hamas release him?
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March 22, 2010 7:13pm
big bruv

“This country is beyond hope!”

You could always make it 100% better by leaving.
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March 22, 2010 7:20pm
dad4justice

I did wonder when you would start the attack again tuff guy Brendan Loon.Who let the dogs out?
Your hatred is a great talking point with my work mates.
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March 22, 2010 7:25pm
Komata

Miracles still occur!

At long-last John Campbell actually shut up long enough to give Jerry Brownlee the chance ti speak regarding mining in New Zealand. Jerry’s presentation (having been given a very condescending 21/2 minutes or so to present the very logical government case and reason), was clear, and reasonable. Go Jerry!

Unfortunately the Campbell and TV3 bias was very evident and I doubt that the ‘right of reply’ by the hysterical opponents to mining will be as short or reasoned, situation normal of course.

Neutral, unbiased reporting? We should be so lucky.
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March 22, 2010 7:27pm
Stuart Mackey

The Maori Party is questioning the democratic principle of one vote for one person.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2010/03/22/1247f88e6aed
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March 22, 2010 7:32pm
noskire

Just finished reading Battle Ready, an autobiography of sorts of US Marine General Tony Zinni, co-written by Tom Clancy. Well worth the read if you’re into military history and an insight into Israeli-Palestinian negotiations just before the end of Arafat.
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March 22, 2010 7:41pm
jcuknz

We should congratulate the United States of America in finally joining the group of civilised nations who look after their sick.
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March 22, 2010 8:06pm
big bruv

You go to “work” and talk about what you got up to on Kiwiblog???

Must be a real fun place.
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March 22, 2010 8:09pm
big bruv

Nope jcuknz, we will congratulate them when the republicans overturn this stupid bill.

Do you really think the people of the USA are going to put up with NHS and NZ health service standards for long?

I doubt it, B Hussein Messiah Obama has sealed his one term presidency with this move.
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March 22, 2010 8:12pm
dad4justice

“You go to “work” and talk about what you got up to on Kiwiblog???”

No Brendan, a lot of people read this blog. You need serious treatment. When are we using our real names on here? A Courthouse is not a “fun place” tuff guy.
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March 22, 2010 8:16pm
big bruv

Do the people you “work” with also think that they should not have to pay child maintenance if they are denied access to their kids because of some disagreement with their ex?

Are they happy to see the tax payer left with the bill while they sort out their anger issues?
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March 22, 2010 8:21pm
dad4justice

FFS Brendan you’re mad as a March Hare. Get help with your festering hatred you angry sad twit. Your fixation with me is very strange and sinister.
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March 22, 2010 8:26pm
big bruv

Are you ever going to answer that question D4J?
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March 22, 2010 8:28pm
dad4justice

Go away you deranged cowardly creep. I will answer to you at a face to face meeting. Yeah right yellow pigs do fly just ask Brendan Loon.
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March 22, 2010 8:29pm
big bruv

Why not answer it on here D4J?

Should fathers be made to pay child maintenance irrespective of the level of access they have to their kids?

If they really are concerned about the welfare of the children I would have thought this is a no brainer, or, as I suspect, many of them are so bitter and twisted the kids are the ones who end up harmed in all of this, and the tax payer is left carrying the can financially.
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March 22, 2010 8:34pm
dad4justice

Face to face coward. Band of Brothers is on. Goodbye gutless.
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March 22, 2010 8:34pm
philu

so..’that changey-thing’ seems to be going quite well for obama..eh..?

he has done what fdr and clinton..and lbj failed to do..

next up..he will deal to those wall st bastards..

and gee..!..it’s only the beginning of year two..of eight..

..eh..?

we’ll have more ‘change’ than you can poke a stick at..

..eh..?

by the time that eight years is up..

the republicans went all out..to try and cripple obama..early on in his presidency..

..and they have failed..

obama will now have the political momentum to do all he wants to do..

you thought the reagan-revolution was impressive..?

you ain’t seen nothing yet…

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 22, 2010 9:28pm
Hurf Durf

jcuknz (378) Says:
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:06 pm

What, buy insurance or go to jail? Doesn’t sound very civilised.

obama will now have the political momentum to do all he wants to do..

you thought the reagan-revolution was impressive..?

you ain’t seen nothing yet…

Doubt it. It took a year and even then HCR got three votes above the threshold. Card check and cap and trade are still dead. Most of his capital is spent. Considering he’ll have nothing to do over the next nine months than defend a rampantly unpopular bill, my guess is he’ll go after the banks to create a helpful distraction and bring back the hatred for them that so conveniently propelled President Post Turtle to power in 2008 and so, along with the massive incoming tax increases, end up creating a double dip recession. He’ll also probably continue to screw up the Iranian crisis and nuclear weapons issue too under the guise of “multilateralism.” lolol.

It’s not the end of the world as some think, but it’s not the bright dawn of a brave new socialist utopia – at least, not yet.
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March 22, 2010 9:39pm
m@tt

@starboard. Yeah. My point exactly. Did you miss it?
DPF clearly does… or did… give a toss.
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March 22, 2010 10:34pm
toad

Hurf Durf, several people have been asking me elsewhere – are you Michael Lhaws?

You do come across a lot like him.
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March 22, 2010 10:38pm
Hurf Durf

I addressed this in yesterday’s GD, frogboy.
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March 22, 2010 11:10pm

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