General Debate 13 December 2010

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AlphaKiwi

Good morning, all! Have a great day!
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December 13, 2010 8:11am
Dave Mann

Thanks AlphaKiwi 🙂
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December 13, 2010 8:24am
Pete George

Clark not as anti US as some seem to think?

The first batch of the NZ cables, released to the Sunday Star Times, is mostly sourced in the time of the Helen Clark-led Labour Government and they are mainly glowing in their appraisal of her and believe she genuinely wanted improvement in the relationship.
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December 13, 2010 8:29am
Falafulu Fisi

A nice classic ballad to cheer you up & start the week with if you’re feeling a bit down from drinking lots of alcohol @ weekend.

Make it real (stage performance)

Make it real (video)
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December 13, 2010 8:36am
Manolo

Do we know if Groser and Smith, representing the NZ government, signed up to the Cancun global fund to “combat” AGW?
Why the silence on this matter?
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December 13, 2010 8:43am
Murray

Who the hell is Helen Clark to us?
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December 13, 2010 8:44am
Nookin

O’Connor says every policeman should be armed. If it came to a choice I would rather see a couple of thugs in hospital with gunshot wounds than a good cop with machete wounds. That’s a no-brainer. But – he was attacked from behind. O’Connor said that he was on the ground and had nothing to defend himself with. If armed, he could have defended himself with a gun. Equally, we could have had an unconscious cop and two blood crazed thugs with a gun. Where do you draw the line on risk?
Presumably, the anti-gun brigade are those who also condemn the cops for chasing fleeing offenders. I may be wrong on that but that is the impression I get.

What’s the answer?
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December 13, 2010 8:44am
Lance

Shock horror headlines from the herald….

The US perfer National to Labour.

I am stunned, Labour hate Americans and think they are the boogy man incarnate, first prize for the most bleeding obvious revelation goes to the herald!. More material for ‘Nicky – capitalists under the bed – Hager’ no doubt.
His life will have meaning now, a purpose.
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December 13, 2010 8:46am
Dave Mann

Has anybody else noticed the way the media are portraying this Constable Bruce Mellor as a pathetic victim? Rolling in a ball helped him survive did it? I wonder what would have happened if he had drawn his truncheon thingy and bashed the little scrote’s head in? Maybe he was a big scrote…. but still…. I’m getting a bit sick of hearing about cope who ‘break down’, cops who ‘are overcome with grief’, cops who ‘fear for their safety’, cops who are shot with airguns while ‘running away from tewwible cwiminals’ etc….

[DPF: This must be the most fucked thing you have ever said – he got hit by a machete from behind. I suggest you get some thug to whack your head with a machete and then tell us all about how you used your truncheon to defeat him]
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December 13, 2010 8:51am
Pete George

Labour hate Americans and think they are the boogy man incarnate,

That’s a pathetic statement to make, unless you have something substantial to back it up with.
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December 13, 2010 8:51am
RobbieBlack

I see the Sweden bombs failed (almost).

What is up with these radical Islamic extremics?

OK if you wanna make a point you attack USA soldiers, soldiers get it?

You don’t blow up and murder innocent civilians.

After all, they may be Muslims.

A bit like China, no sense.

You guys really need to work on your PR skills or hireage.

Playing good villains will create good change.

But if you always play dumb evil bad villains nothing wil change.

But I can understand Tom and Jerry was confusing. Yeah, as a kid I always wanted the mouse to be eaten by the bigger cat.

Perhaps China and Islam you could begin with something like the exorcist, a clear example of bad against evil.

Because last time I checked, Islam and China had a VERY bad image.

Just not clever.

Get better PR for God’s sake.

Or it is just embarrassing.
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December 13, 2010 8:52am
Komata

I note that Komrade Keith (Locke) is (predictably) whining about how dare the New Zealand Government establish good relations with the USA – and didn’t tell him!!

Same old, same old, and as usual nothing new from that individual. One must wonder though, given his virulent anti-US and anti-Western views why he doesn’t purchase a one-way ticket to Pyongyang. I suspect however that Kim Jong II probably wouldn’t get the joke or appreciate Locke’s ‘Helpfulness’, and Locke would get what he so desperately wants – jail – and ‘martyrdom’ for ‘the cause’. (Although as NK is a ‘socialist’ state, Locke may suffer from ‘idelogical confucion’)

Cost of the one-way air fare to send Locke, K. to the Nth Korean ‘workers paradise’ anyone?
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December 13, 2010 8:55am
Rodders

So Robbie, you believe that terrorists are “good villains” if they ambush US soldiers?
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December 13, 2010 8:57am
Lance

Oh FFS Pete!
Any chance to show the wicked US involved the with (the then opposition) National was leaked by Labour.
They used this tactic as evidence of dark wicked right wing National agendas.

Even lowering themselves to releasing confidential diplomatic notes between Don Brash and US representatives, a GROSS breach of protocol.

Bloody hell I can’t believe you wrote that.
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December 13, 2010 8:58am
RobbieBlack

I mean for God’s sake that crazy Iranian dictator guy going on CNN and spewing about the evil Zionists.

OK which century is your brain in?

Is there any guy with an internationally supported shoot me target on his head?
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December 13, 2010 9:00am
Pete George

Isolated attempts at political point scoring Lance. Nothing to indicate they “hate Americans and think they are the boogy man incarnate.”

The Wikileaked cables suggest re the Helen Clark-led Labour Government “they are mainly glowing in their appraisal of her and believe she genuinely wanted improvement in the relationship”.
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December 13, 2010 9:03am
RobbieBlack

No, I think, I was ironically trying to express my disgust of all Islamic terrorists, but due to the time difference between myself and NZ it is possible my message was distorted by the good, strong German beer I am drinking.
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December 13, 2010 9:04am
RobbieBlack

And connecting that disgust to the disgust of the Chinese police and government, that is the non-democratic stench of fear from a political system about to be deleted.
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December 13, 2010 9:08am
malcolm

All this talk about arming police is just a side-story for me. The real question is: what do we do with people who attack police officers in such a brutal and homicidal way? Here’s an idea. Life in prison. No parole.

Best wishes to Senior Constable Bruce Mellor for a speedy recovery.
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December 13, 2010 9:08am
RobbieBlack

New Zealand is done. Cultural problems, mismanagement have done the county. Let’s face it all the good Kiwis, the artists, the movie stars, the successful artists packed their bags for Aussie long ago. And those who stay never succeed or receive the international recognition and funds their art deserves. Dave Dobbyn, Goldenhorse…

I love NZ, but I am smart enough to high tail it too.

A beautiful country full of weird people.
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December 13, 2010 9:16am
Lance

OK Pete
Then why does Labour label or imply ANY National association with the US as bad. If it’s just point scoring why use that tactic?
There is a deep seated dislike in them of the US or they are milking a vein in their supporters. Either way its revealing.
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December 13, 2010 9:16am
Pete George

“Then why does Labour label or imply ANY National association with the US as bad. “ They don’t.

“There is a deep seated dislike in them of the US.” Nothing you have said backs up that statement, you have only pointed out a couple of minor political posturings.

The US leaked cables contradict your claim. The Labour government worked extensively with the US government for nine years. The current NZ ambassador in the US is Mike Moore.
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December 13, 2010 9:22am
RobbieBlack

But it does draw a tear from me, I grew up in beautiful Northland, primary school in the seventies, high school in the eighties, Maoris or Pakeha, we were judged as individuals on our personalities and other traits.

Never again.

No more equality, just hate and greed and blame.

Anyone who grew up in the seventies and eighties knows that wonderful feeling of good ol NZ, parties at the beach.

Fred Dagg, Split Enz, Sweet Waters, Outlook for Thursday…sadly those days ended.

Now all the beautiful country has is hate and violence.

So, I take my memories and visit to those old wonderful places.

And I will write about those wonderful times.
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December 13, 2010 9:26am
Brian Smaller

If the cop had a sidearm and stopped a car with two people in it on his own, he could have ordered the people to stay put, move to the side of the road or whatever with a greater chance of compliance. Have any of you lot ever had a cop point a gun at you? I have. A Beretta 9mm SMG looks like a canon when it is pointed at your stomach. Unless you are a nutter you do what they say.
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December 13, 2010 9:28am
david

Now that the Lyen Brown donations fiasco has hit the news along with the candidate’s spending amounts, it is a great opportunity to look at some of the urban myths (repeated and carefully cultivated by the left) about “big money buying influence” in NZ. It appears that one of the biggest spenders just happened to be one with the lower number of votes.

Mind you Obama outspent pretty much everyone else combined and won so there might be some veracity in a global sense to the idea that money buys votes.
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December 13, 2010 9:32am
Chuck Bird

Don Brash’s latest address to the Orewa branch of the National Party

It is well worth reading

Return to Orewa
An address to the Orewa branch of the National Party by Dr Don Brash
27 November 2010

http://www.nzcpr.com/guest223.htm
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December 13, 2010 9:33am
Dave Mann

I cannot understand how soeone could get out of a car (door opening sounds etc) and grab something like a machete and approach this cop without him having noticed.
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December 13, 2010 9:34am
MT_Tinman

A side-armed cop, attacked from behind with a machete, would quickly find the bad guys had his side-arm as well as the machete.

Very few, if any, rural cops do not have access to firearms.

And yes, Brian, I have had a cop aim a gun at me – although I admit I did not, at the time, ask him what type of canon it was 😉
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December 13, 2010 9:35am
Lance

@Pete
From wikileaks you refer to
“The US requirement for secrecy about details of its improving relationship goes way back. One cable written in 2006 while National was in the midst of hardening its anti-nuclear policy says “we also continue to believe a National Government would be better able to rebuild much of the trust that has eroded US-NZ relations over the past years”.

The cables also refer to claims by Labour that former National leader Don Brash told a group of visiting Congressmen that the anti-nuclear policy would be “gone by lunchtime” as “deliberately misleading”.

So the boogy man stuff was just all minor posturing?
Seriously rose coloured specticals there Pete.

Of course Helen Clarke was trying to unravel the crap they created but then undone by these stunts. Why the fuck would she do this? Rebuild broken bridges and then fuck it all up for cheap point scoring.
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December 13, 2010 9:40am
Dave Mann

What is this insane fear that ‘the baddies will take the guns off the cops’? This doesn’t happen in real life. I have lived in many countries where cops are armed and I have never even HEARD of a criminal taking a gun off a cop. Geez, some people live in fantasy-land.
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December 13, 2010 9:44am
malcolm

Dave, maybe it was windy/raining or a large truck was rattling by. Or maybe he did notice, but fast 14 and 18 year-old scum could be on you in seconds. Maybe they carried the machete under the front seat for exactly that situation.
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December 13, 2010 9:51am
MT_Tinman

I didn’t realise cops had guns in fantasy-land Dave, nor that you were deaf.
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December 13, 2010 9:51am
RobbieBlack

Yeah the cop being hacked up is horrible but no surprise, especially from any Kiwis living overseas and watching with shock the inclining NZ violence crime stats.

How about they take a more creative approach to it, like there is something in the air, something in the energy to create violence and hate? Hey, the last few countries I have lived in people just don’t gag to unleash violence.

Maybe NZ has some kind of weird energy that with the right combination of genetics just turns people over the edge.

Was it a coincidence that the most violent race on Earth, the Maoris got washed up on such peaceful shores?
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December 13, 2010 9:52am
wf

Heard yesterday: a group of young teenagers overheard talking about school prize giving. Of most interest were the sports awards which were all won by Maori students.
The comment from one kid ” Well if you’re not a Maori you don’t get any cups” – “Same at our school”, and another:
“What about drama?”
“Oh the kapa haka kids get those”
“That’s the way it is, they get all the prizes”
All of which was said in a matter-of-fact way without any ill feeling, as in “when it rains the grass will grow”.
What is happening here?
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December 13, 2010 9:53am
malcolm

This doesn’t happen in real life.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Officer-shot-with-own-gun/2005/04/24/1114281455165.html
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/111149739.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,326148,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19418886/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/07/illinois.police.officer.killed/index.html?eref=rss_us&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_us+%28RSS%3A+U.S.%29&utm_content=Google+International
…..
…
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December 13, 2010 9:54am
Pete George

“Gone by lunchtime” was a brash statement, there was public interest in whether or not it was an intended policy. So Brash was “deliberately misleading” the NZ public – or the Congressmen.

NZ-US relations seemed reasonable during the Clark government years, we supported the US except where we disagreed with what they were doing eg Iraq. The British were far more embarrassed by their poodle.
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December 13, 2010 9:56am
Manolo

“Of most interest were the sports awards which were all won by Maori students.”

Even winning drama awards is fine, but what about excellence in academic achievement? How many Maori kids win that? Not many, I hasten to add.
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December 13, 2010 9:58am
Pete George

wf: “That’s the way it is, they get all the prizes.” What is happening here?

Depends on how accurate it is. Kids are known to sometimes exaggerate.

You’d also have to look at the full prize list and racial connections – and the proportion of races in the school. Sports awards are generally rewarded on straight merit.
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December 13, 2010 10:02am
rouppe

I’d have to say I think Constable Mellor made a mistake. He turned his back on people he had stopped. Anyone stopped by Police could be some sort of fugitive or scrote with something to hide.

Constable Mellor would have had capsicum spray on his belt which would have provided some means to use at least a baton effectively. A crack over the wrist with a baton will make you drop anything you’re holding quick smart. I’m not sure what the policy is on Tasers but I’d have thought a lone cop patrolling a vast area should have at least a Taser to hand at all times.

Having said that, by turning his back on them, it didn’t matter what weapons he had available, he wouldn’t have been able to use them cause he wasn’t looking.

Good wishes to the man for a speedy recovery, and oh that we could administer to those filth a punishment even close to what they did to Mellor.
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December 13, 2010 10:03am
pollywog

Has anybody else noticed the way the media are portraying this Constable Bruce Mellor as a pathetic victim?

I’m getting a bit sick of hearing about cope who ‘break down’, cops who ‘are overcome with grief’, cops who ‘fear for their safety’, cops who are shot with airguns while ‘running away from tewwible cwiminals’ etc….

[DPF: This must be the most fucked thing you have ever said – he got hit by a machete from behind. I suggest you get some thug to whack your head with a machete and then tell us all about how you used your truncheon to defeat him]

thats more like it…some light relief

moral of the story : never turn your back on a scrote
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December 13, 2010 10:03am
Courage Wolf

Open letter from Julian Assange. A democracy cannot exist without a robust and objective media to inform the voting public. If the public is not informed, then there is no way they can intelligently vote, thus making any system of democracy a complete sham. I’ve highlighted the part I found interesting:

I’ve noticed recently in America, especially since 9/11, that American citizens have been running scared. Many of them are convinced there is a global network of psychotic bogeymen out there waiting to kill them by one suicidal tactic or another. They’ve begun to say that all of these weighty matters like economic policy, foreign policy, and military strategy should be completely determined by government rather than the people.

It seems nowadays the only thing some Americans believe we are capable of deciding are non-issues like abortion, gay marriage, and teaching God in school. See how the political discourse has been watered down to the point where we have no real power and no real voting decisions to make?

[So fucking true. It’s pathetic how so many Christians today feel like these are the biggest threats facing the world today, as if a God, if He exists, would give a shit about such trivial matters.]

What happened to a democracy in which the people decided whether we should go to war? What happened to a democracy where the people decided how many nukes we should have? From the nuclear threat, to the global warming threat, now to the terrorist threat, it seems like government and the US media have done nothing but continuously try to use fear as a tool of submission, to make us think we are incapable of deciding the course of our country and that we should leave all important decisions for the “experts.”

Except, how many of these politicians are even experts? How many of these long distinguished records of service are even investigated? How rigorous is our media in reporting actual information to us?

As Americans, how easy was it for you guys to find a website, a single website, that provided an easy to navigate map of all the politicians running for election, their political positions, their history of government service, who their public supporters were, who has donated to them, and their previous work experience? How many of you can say there is any one website that allows you to easily find these things and make an informed decision on who to vote for? Or even a website that clearly defines the duties, required skills and experiences needed to perform a particular government position proficiently? What about Senate sub-committees? Why are we not voting for who gets put in those? How come I don’t know a single person in my social circle who could name more than 2 or 3 sub-committees off the top of their heads? And how come these sub-committees seem so pivotal in the governance of our country, yet the general public knows almost nothing about them?

Sure, I could spend a year of my time compiling all this information on my own and trying to piece it all together and become an expert on capitol hill, but… that’s not my job is it? That’s the job of the media. It is their job to bring us the information, that is what they are paid to do. Yet, they continue to bombard us with non-stories, scandals, sensationalism, and ridiculous circus-act pontificating by the likes of both liberals and conservatives. It is absolutely absurd that Jon Stewart is even being considered an outlet for information. It shows how badly the US democratic system has deteriorated. (Not that it was anything great before).

I find it criminal that in this era of information, and with things like Wikipedia, Google, Facebook, Twitter etc that there is still not a website with the functionality and simplicity necessary to create a site for political information like the one I described.
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December 13, 2010 10:04am
tom hunter

The US leaked cables contradict your claim. The Labour government worked extensively with the US government for nine years. The current NZ ambassador in the US is Mike Moore.

You must know different Labour party voters and left-wngers than me. I cannot think of a single Labour voter I’ve ever known in this country who has not taken regular, sly potshots at the “stupid” US – domestic politics, foreign policy, military, and culture. So much so that it was never a surprise when one of their politicians did similar dogwhistles in public. That’s the modern left since the Vietnam war.

And the cables actually give plenty of hints about this history:

She recognises that sound bites matter, and in response has begun to modulate her public statements to be more positive about the relationship. She also strenuously avoids saying anything critical about U.S. policy
…
Arriving in office well to the left of the political spectrum, Clark began her tenure by stressing New Zealand’s role as a small but principled player favoring multilateral (ideally UN-based) solutions to the world’s problems.
…
Recognizing that her Government had initially resisted improving the U.S. relationship, Clark has since the 2005 election
…
Mindful that her 2003 remarks about the Iraq war have not been forgotten, Clark now slaps down her Cabinet Ministers for similar offenses. When on January 12 Duty Minister Jim Anderton issued a blistering critique of the President’s plan to send more troops to Iraq, Clark quickly disavowed the comments and removed Anderton from duty within the day. She was roundly criticized in the media for her actions, but did not budge.

All the cables demonstrate is that when push comes to shove senior Labour politicians in power will negotiate and do what they have to do with the US for trade and other purposes.

Mike Moore in particular is of an old breed of Labour politicians who did not look down their nose at the US or American culture. But that is not the case with the likes of Helen Clarke and co. Behind closed doors she’d work with Americans on any number of things. But away from those arenas, when shopping for votes and trying to gin up the left-wing base of Labour, she would take cheap shots at the US – often by implication through linking them with the National Party:

– Mallard’s “travelling bagman with American cash” attack. The “American” label was absolutely a dog whistle to Labour and Green supporters in NZ.
– the stunned mullet reaction after the 9/11 attacks, a the Alliance and Labour left found themselves stuck between the reactions of their Pilger-marinated supporters, and the need to not publicly offend an obviously angry US – until Clarke could get back home and get the “proper” reactions set up.
– As has already been pointed out, the whole Brash “gone by lunchtime” deal was absolutely more than a punch at policy. Every Labour supporter I knew had an instant, visceral, “those fucking Americans” reaction to the information, at least as much as against Brash.

I’ll leave it with this quote from the 2007 cable:

…polling suggests up to half of all Kiwis believe New Zealand does not need a closer relationship with the United States, and the anti-American sentiment in the left side of her own caucus is well known.

Well known even to US diplomats, but apparently not to moderate NZ centrists.
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December 13, 2010 10:05am
pollywog

like there is something in the air, something in the energy to create violence and hate? Hey, the last few countries I have lived in people just don’t gag to unleash violence.

Maybe NZ has some kind of weird energy that with the right combination of genetics just turns people over the edge.

nah… it’s just greedy politicians selling intergenerational welfare while ripping off the taxpayer to line their own and their mates pockets thus causing mass inequality which the underclass are slowly waking up to and reverting to violence as the only means to vent their frustration, anger and ineffectuality

Was it a coincidence that the most violent race on Earth, the Maoris got washed up on such peaceful shores

Maori aren’t a race, they didn’t just wash up and they’re no more violent than your average european holy crusader or descendent of and theres no such thing as coincidence

now what have i told you about posting while pissed ???

🙂
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December 13, 2010 10:13am
BeaB

Dave Mann You should have been called on at Pike River with your fantastic knowledge and skills. The Sofa Samurai strike again!
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December 13, 2010 10:16am
Manolo

“Maori are no more violent than your average european..”

Tui ad of the month.
That explains why 60% of prison inmates are Maori, isn’t it? A disproportional figure compared to the Kiwi population.
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December 13, 2010 10:18am
kowtow

John Key came across very weak again on TV1 this morning taking about the decision a police officer would have to make before shooting someone.
I suppose that police officer can also decide to run or roll over and take a potentially lethal whacking.

NZ opinion formers needs to wake up to the fact that the big bad world of drugs,gang crime and unprovoked extreme violence is now part of Godzone.

(no apologies to the Howard Leagers,hand wringers,pro drug, pro gang,pro apartheiters out there in lala land)

Don Brash referred to mainstream NZ while leader of the opposition and was mocked by the media and commentariat for it.Mainstream NZ wants a crackdown on crime and a return to common sense.
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December 13, 2010 10:18am
BeaB

With the media outcry over car chases you can just imagine the fuss if the police actually shot someone.
Kowtow I think you are confusing an intelligent, realistic approach with weakness.
Do you really think they should just come out all guns blazing? That’s not the NZ I want to live in. In the USA and Australia (and many other countries where police are armed) there are strict protocols – as there must be. But there are still crims in these countries and always will be. These guys (a small minority) don’t think of consequences and their lives are mainly shit in any case.
I am all for locking violent crims up forever. I believe people who inflict terror and pain on others can never be reformed.
The rest I don’t much worry about.
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December 13, 2010 10:36am
Dave Mann

If I had been given the opportunity, I would have simply walked into the mine in my overalls and held up my hand and commanded the fire to stop. I would have said “Quench thyself, O wicked fire! Be gone, flames of Hades, in the name of the great God OSH I command you to be cast out for ever!”

That would have fixed it! hahahaha
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December 13, 2010 10:36am
Pete George

“I cannot think of a single Labour voter I’ve ever known in this country who has not taken regular, sly potshots at the “stupid” US – domestic politics, foreign policy, military, and culture.”

No righties taking “sly potshots at the ‘stupid’ US”? Good grief, the Tea Party must be an RB fantasy. Tom, you have posted plenty of criticism of things US, where does that put you?

Criticising some of the US stupidity isn’t necessarily anti-US, it’s anti stupidity. There are plenty of stupid things done in the US, and the US governments aren’t immune from a bit of stupidity now and again. That doesn’t mean there’s no admiration and backing of the US, it’s just not blanket admiration – that would be particularly stupid.

Criticising parts is not the same as criticising the whole.
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December 13, 2010 10:38am
pollywog

“Maori are no more violent than your average european..”

Tui ad of the month.
That explains why 60% of prison inmates are Maori, isn’t it? A disproportional figure compared to the Kiwi population.

the 60% maori prison population has as much to do with prejudiced police and judiciary as it has being piss poor criminals.

it’s a shame we Pasifikans aren’t so shit hot at the white collar crimes and the judciary are so lenient on that type of behaviour or you’d find the prison population would even out on an ethnic basis

so yeah how many people have Maori killed compared to your average european through the years ?

You do know about the holy crusades and their bloodlust, kill anything that moves and eat it if you’re hungry policies eh ?

thats what cracks me up about that ignorant Crusader Rabbit guy KG and his stupid gravatar and profile description

“The blood-crossed Knight, the Holy Warrior, hooded with iron, the seraph of the bleak edge, Gallops along the world’s ridge in moonlight…”

cos the truth is…

They committed, both in Europe and the Arab/Muslim world, the worst conceivable horrible crimes and atrocities, not only against thousands of innocent Muslims and Jews of both sexes and of all ages, but also even against Christians. Their vicious crimes – all of which will be detailed shortly – against noncombatants and innocent peoples included the destruction of properties; pillaging; plundering; foraging; ravaging; stealing; setting houses on fire; torturing; murdering; executing; burning humans alive; raping women, including nuns; and even roasting and eating (with a great deal of relish) the human flesh of their victims and their children.

http://radioislam.org/sindi/croisades.htm

which is kinda funny cos Southern Pasifikans gave up cannibalism for christianity but Norther Barbarians used it to justify eating humans.
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December 13, 2010 10:42am
rouppe

Oh my… This report just makes me want to throw up…

What was she thinking?
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December 13, 2010 10:46am
Lance

Worst strawman argument in history award goes to ‘pollywog’

“o yeah how many people have Maori killed compared to your average european through the years ?”
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December 13, 2010 10:52am
Fletch

rouppe, I read that in the HoS yesterday and was going to post on it in gd, but I thought better of it….lol
But yeh, it *is* kind of disgusting. My dad said something like, she must be hard up.
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December 13, 2010 10:57am
pollywog

heh..nice one Lance

i left that line in there just to see who’d bite it and distract from the rest of the post

you win the hook, line and sinker award for utter predictability

the point is, Maori are no more violent than any other ethnicity/culture
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December 13, 2010 11:14am
tom hunter

No righties taking “sly potshots at the ‘stupid’ US”? Good grief, the Tea Party must be an RB fantasy. Tom, you have posted plenty of criticism of things US, where does that put you?

Indeed. I thought you had me pegged as a “ra ra” supporter of the US, which, as you say, would be blindly stupid.

I know left-wingers who get stuck into US domestic and foreign policy from a left-wing perspective, just as I have right-wing friends who get stuck into the same things from a right-wing perspective.

But with the left wing there’s always the additional touch of snobbish loathing of things American that lie outside the mundane details of political policy. Here in NZ there has always been an element of that on the right as well – mainly directed at US popular culture. A classic example can be found in one of Muldoon’s autobiographies where he writes that the 1970’s US is declining into wrack and ruin. Two decades later Michael Laws wrote similarly after a US State Department sponsored trip through the US (they wasted their money there).

But in general the right critique US policies while still admiring things like their written Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the separation of government powers, the openness, drive and forthrightness of individual Americans.

The left critique America not just for what it does, but for what it is and has been – and I think it’s gone way beyond the whole “not living up to their ideals” rationale. That used to be the realm of the far left, but it’s migrated into a lot of mainstream leftish thinking over the last 40 years – like I said – the Vietnam syndrome. To speak admiringly of things like the Constitution is to invite an awful lot of scoffing from the left, whose approval will apparently be withheld until the day it turns into a gigantic version of Sweden.
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December 13, 2010 11:20am
Lance

Now your into the bullshit award pollywog.

You are dropping these lines frequently. If no one bites you perceive a win. If they do bite you mock them as falling into your clever trap.

A fucked way of debating.
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December 13, 2010 11:23am
Ross Nixon

Manolo (2,457) Says:

Do we know if Groser and Smith, representing the NZ government, signed up to the Cancun global fund to “combat” AGW? Why the silence on this matter?

Are you referring to the massive money and power-grab that the UN is ‘gunning’ for?
You won’t see the MSM reporting this. Read this and weep!
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/30957
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December 13, 2010 11:57am
pollywog

nah …no bullshit Lance, straight up

i don’t percieve a win on teh interwebz…that’s just retarded

i do percieve to have schooled up some ignorant muthafuckas from a Pasifikan perspective though and will readily admit to ocasssionally baiting to get a point across the line

fucken choice way of debating i reckon 😛
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December 13, 2010 12:15pm
grumpyoldhori

Christ none of you ask the obvious fucking question do you, why the fuck was a police officer patrolling on his own ?
A bloke of 57 he had no fucking chance, and before you ranting right wingers go on about hories he is part Maori, want to celebrate now ?

Useless fucking pistols, if you want the police to have effective arms available forget that useless calibre 5.56 rifles and equally useless 9 mm pistols and put a locking rack for sliding stock 12 Guage pump actions between the seats.

Christ the dumbest tossers are those who believe a pistol is just as effective as a blast of double 00 buckshot.
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December 13, 2010 12:30pm
alex Masterley

Its not yet on the NZ papers websites but on the Sydney Morning Herald, Pike river has been placed into receivership by NZ Oil & Gas.
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December 13, 2010 12:37pm
kowtow

BeaB@1036

Exactly where did I advocate an all guns blazing approach?

And I don’t want to live in a country where our police are expected to die violent lonely brutal deaths at the hands of a growing drug induced ,drug peddling criminal underclass.
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December 13, 2010 12:45pm
grumpyoldhori

Since I have done a fair amount of blasting in my time I know a touch about how good those mining inspectors were before National dumped them in 92 to go to the useless fucking OSH types in the explosives etc
Got a degree in the arts and no experience in working in a mine or experience with explosives, you will make a fine OSH inspector.

Christ they did not become a mining inspector before they had thirty bloody years on learning what evil fucking tricks those who handled explosives got up to.

What a great idea at Pike river, they put the main fan down in the mine to blow rather than on top out of harms way to suck, I wonder which tosser okayed that fucking bright idea ?
Or were the mines on self inspection because of cause all employers can be trusted to keep their staff’s safety in mind.
What a surprise, when it went tits up they could not get to the main fan.
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December 13, 2010 12:45pm
kowtow

GOH really shows off his ignorance.
Police are issued with pistols so they can shoot their intended target and not to send buckshot spewwing thru the streets to hit all and sundry. Duh.
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December 13, 2010 12:51pm
Lance

@ alex
Herald website on Pike River going under
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10693994
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December 13, 2010 12:52pm
grumpyoldhori

kowtow you know as much about firearms as that dumb cow Palin.
At thirty yards 00 buckshot has a spread of around .8 of a metre.

Wildly firing bullets around, oh you mean when the cops were trying to shoot a dog and fired twelve times with a pistol for twelve misses.

Which is why the NSW cops use bloody shotguns.
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December 13, 2010 1:00pm
Jimbob

GOH a 12 gauge Mossberg pump with buck shot is what the Yanks use, and the way NZ crime is heading, the Police here will end up using. You can stop cars and light trucks with these, a person would have zero chance. Worth a trial.
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December 13, 2010 1:13pm
kowtow

goh
Did your extensive explosive experience blow your brains away?

That’s why a dog should be shot with a shotgun,not a pistol.Pistol shots for people.

Cops can’t practically carry a shotgun around on foot.duh.That’s why they’re kept in the car as a tactical option. Not as a first option.
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December 13, 2010 1:32pm
Jack5

A murderer in prison goes to court over warders ripping up his magazines.

The unanswered question is whether this low-life is doing this on legal aid at taxpayer expense.

The prisoner should be thankful he’s allowed to read magazines at all.He’s luckier still that NZ doesn’t have the death penalty for murder.

Some prisoners have hifi gear in their cells. They’ve got enough entertainment without state-funded nonsense cases.

But long term, with all this PC madness, can the country afford NOT to have capital punishment? If life without trival court cases is too, too boring for murderers,, then maybe they would be better off with their victims.

The link:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4453035/Inmate-goes-to-court-over-seized-magazine
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December 13, 2010 1:46pm
Lance

Quote from Monty Python “Life of Brian”
One prisoner to another…..
” I used to dream of being spat at in the face”
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December 13, 2010 1:54pm
RightNow

Desperately Seeking Paul Henry:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/4449640/Sarah-Palin-tigers-for-Aucklands-own-big-fat-Indian-wedding

“The wedding of Auckland doctor Pooja Chitgopeker…”
I need Paul Henry to tell me how to pronounce this.
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December 13, 2010 1:55pm
grumpyoldhori

Jimbob a 12 gauge loaded with buck shot then this ammo in alternative in the tubes gives some firepower,1950 FPS for a saboted lead fin stabilized slug is moving, four inch group at 100 metres .
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2_46/ai_58446474/

Problem is most people do not realise how difficult it is to fire a pistol with accuracy, with a short sight radius and and the cops getting no where enough practice.
The old Brownings made damn good clubs with the magazine dropped and slide cleared
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December 13, 2010 1:58pm
grumpyoldhori

kowtow now I realise you are not a kiwi and a complete fuckwit, the reason our cops did not use a shotgun is fucking obvious, there was no shotguns in any of the cars, if there was they would have used it , idiot.
Dumb tosser ALL other police forces use shotguns,maybe with the exception of the Brits, time we did.
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December 13, 2010 2:04pm
kowtow

goh
If bullshit was music you’d be a brass band.

I reckon you’re a keyboard expert in all things .And I defer to your all encompassing knowledge of “all” police force’s weapons and tactics.Not to mention your extensive TV watching armchair gained experience of policing Aotearoa /NZ.

I am sorry for trying to add something to this debate as I now realise that the main criteria with the likes of GOH is xenophobia,foul language and shouting.

A locked and racked shotgun would have been of no use to Mellor,a pistol on his hip might have been.
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December 13, 2010 2:29pm
starboard

Jack5 (2,367) Says:
December 13th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
A murderer in prison goes to court over warders ripping up his magazines.

I just read the link to this. What a fuckin joke. Taxpayer will be paying for this loser court case and he’s a convicted murderer. Sick sick sick.
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December 13, 2010 2:29pm
Murray

Austin Hemmings for New Zealander of the year.

Get that bloody Australian actresses face of all the articles while you’re at it.
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December 13, 2010 3:08pm
kowtow

Murray@308

Seconded.
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December 13, 2010 3:24pm
Luc Hansen

I see that at Cancun we have promised to reduce our emissions by 25-40% below our 1990 levels, over the next 10 years.

Since we have actually increased our emissions by 30% over our Kyoto commitment, just how are we going to manage this?

I suggest this is another example of government at its most cynical – the politicians who signed up to this won’t be in government in 10 years time, and they are basically leaving future governments and voters to carry the can.
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December 13, 2010 3:27pm
RightNow

Luc – what sort of promise? Is it aspirational (likely to never be achieved) or something binding with penalties for not achieving?
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December 13, 2010 3:35pm
kowtow

Rightnow’
For goodness sake don’t encourage him ,he might go away.
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December 13, 2010 5:27pm
joana

I don’t know what the answer is Nookin but I do know it is not ”O’Connor.”
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December 13, 2010 5:59pm
nickb

I am sure this has probably already been posted, but:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/auckland-mayor-recommends-rates-rise-3968054

Yay for the supper efficient, rates-stabilising supercity! and yay for Len Brown!
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December 13, 2010 6:19pm
reid

I’ve never posted an entire article before instead of merely linking to it. This one is worth it. For those who think it’s bullshit, I suggest you just wait and see whether or not it comes true. Just FFS read it and don’t forget the agenda it foretells, when 2015, 2020 and beyond rolls around.

I usually add some gentle humor when I report. Not today. Read this and weep. Notwithstanding the carefully-orchestrated propaganda to the effect that nothing much will be decided at the UN climate conference here in Cancun, the decisions to be made here this week signal nothing less than the abdication of the West. The governing class in what was once proudly known as the Free World is silently, casually letting go of liberty, prosperity, and even democracy itself. No one in the mainstream media will tell you this, not so much because they do not see as because they do not bl**dy care.

The 33-page Note (FCCC/AWGLCA/2010/CRP.2) by the Chairman of the “Ad-Hoc Working Group on Long-Term Co-operative Action under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change”, entitled Possible elements of the outcome, reveals all. Or, rather, it reveals nothing, unless one understands what the complex, obscure jargon means. All UNFCCC documents at the Cancun conference, specifically including Possible elements of the outcome, are drafted with what is called “transparent impenetrability”. The intention is that the documents should not be understood, but that later we shall be told they were in the public domain all the time, so what are we complaining about?

Since the Chairman’s note is very long, I shall summarize the main points:

Finance:
Western countries will jointly provide $100 billion a year by 2020 to an unnamed new UN Fund. To keep this sum up with GDP growth, the West may commit itself to pay 1.5% of GDP to the UN each year. That is more than twice the 0.7% of GDP that the UN has recommended the West to pay in foreign aid for the past half century. Several hundred of the provisions in the Chairman’s note will impose huge financial costs on the nations of the West.

The world-government Secretariat:
In all but name, the UN Convention’s Secretariat will become a world government directly controlling hundreds of global, supranational, regional, national and sub-national bureaucracies. It will receive the vast sum of taxpayers’ money ostensibly paid by the West to the Third World for adaptation to the supposed adverse consequences of imagined (and imaginary) “global warming”.

Bureaucracy:
Hundreds of new interlocking bureaucracies answerable to the world-government Secretariat will vastly extend its power and reach. In an explicit mirroring of the European Union’s method of enforcing the will of its unelected Kommissars on the groaning peoples of that benighted continent, the civil servants of nation states will come to see themselves as servants of the greater empire of the Secretariat, carrying out its ukases and diktats whatever the will of the nation states’ governments. Many of the new bureaucracies are disguised as “capacity-building in developing countries”. This has nothing to do with growing the economies or industries of poorer nations. It turns out to mean the installation of hundreds of bureaucratic offices answerable to the Secretariat in numerous countries around the world. Who pays? You do, gentle taxpayer. Babylon, Byzantium, the later Ottoman Empire, the formidable bureaucracy of Nazi Germany, the vast empire of 27,000 paper-shufflers at the European Union: add all of these together and multiply by 100 and you still do not reach the sheer size, cost, power and reach of these new subsidiaries of the Secretariat.

In addition to multiple new bureaucracies in every one of the 193 states parties to the Convention, there will be an Adaptation Framework Body, a Least Developed Countries’ Adaptation Planning Body, an Adaptation Committee, Regional Network Centers, an International Center to Enhance Adaptation Research, National Adaptation Institutions, a Body to Clarify Assumptins and Conditions in National Greenhouse-Gas Emission Reductions Pledges, a Negotiating Body for an Overall Level of Ambition for Aggregate Emission Reductions and Individual Targets, an Office to Revise Guidelines for National Communications, a Multilateral Communications Process Office, a Body for the Process to Develop Modalities and Guidelines for the Compliance Process, a Registry of Nationally Appropriate Mitigation Actions by Developed Countries, a Body to Supervise the Process for Understanding Diversity of Mitigation Actions Submitted and Support Needed, a Body to Develop Modalities for the Registry of Nationally Appropriate Mitigation Actions, an Office of International Consultation and Analysis; an Office to Conduct a Work Program for Development of Various Modalities and Guidelines; a network of Developing Countries’ National Forest Strategy Action Plan Offices; a network of National Forest Reference Emission Level And/Or Forest Reference Level Bodies; a network of National Forest Monitoring Systems; an Office of the Work Program on Agriculture to Enhance the Implementation of Article 4, Paragraph 1(c) of the Convention Taking Into Account Paragraph 31; one or more Mechanisms to Establish a Market-Based Approach to Enhance the Cost-Effectiveness Of And To Promote Mitigation Actions; a Forum on the Impact of the Implementation of Response Measures; a Work Program Office to Address the Impact of the Implementation of Response Measures; a Body to Review the Needs of Developing Countries for Financial Resources to Address Climate Change and Identify Options for Mobilization of Those Resources; a Fund in Addition to the Copenhagen Green Fund; an Interim Secretariat for the Design Phase of the New Fund; a New Body to Assist the Conference of the Parties in Exercising its Functions with respect to the Financial Mechanism; a Body to Launch a Process to Further Define the Roles and Functions of the New Body to Assist the Conference of the Parties in Exercising its Functions with respect to the Financial Mechanism; a Technology Executive Committee; a Climate Technology Center and Network; a Network of National, Regional, Sectoral and International Technology Centers, Networks, Organization and Initiatives; Twinning Centers for Promotion of North-South, South-South and Triangular Partnerships with a View to Encouraging Co-operative Research and Development; an Expert Workshop on the Operational Modalities of the Technology Mechanism; an International Insurance Facility; a Work Program Body for Policy Approaches and Positive Incentives on Issues Relating to Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation in Developing Countries; a Body to Implement a Work Program on the Impact of the Implementation of Response Measures; and a Body to Develop Modalities for the Operationalization of the Work Program on the Impact of the Implementation of Response Measures.

The world government’s powers:
The Secretariat will have the power not merely to invite nation states to perform their obligations under the climate-change Convention, but to compel them to do so. Nation states are to be ordered to collect, compile and submit vast quantities of information, in a manner and form to be specified by the secretariat and its growing army of subsidiary bodies. Between them, they will be given new powers to verify the information, to review it and, on the basis of that review, to tell nation states what they can and cannot do.

Continuous expansion:
The verb “enhance”, in its various forms, occurs at least 28 times in the Chairman’s note, Similar verbs, such as “strengthen” and “extend”, and adjectives such as “scaled-up”, “new” and “additional”, are also frequently deployed, particularly in relation to funding at the expense of Western taxpayers. If all of the “enhancements” proposed in the note were carried out, the cost would comfortably exceed the annual $100 billion (or, for that matter, the 1.5% of GDP) that the note mentions as the cost to the West over the coming decade.

Intellectual property in inventions:
Holders of patents, particularly in fields related to “global warming” and its mitigation, will be obliged to transfer the benefits of their inventiveness to developing countries without payment of royalties. This is nowhere explicitly stated in the Chairman’s note, but the transfer of technology is mentioned about 20 times in the draft, suggesting that the intention is still to carry out the explicit provision in the defunct Copenhagen Treaty draft of 15 September 2009 to this effect.

Insurance:
The Secretariat proposes, in effect, to interfere so greatly in the operation of the worldwide insurance market that it will cease to be a free market, with the usual severely adverse consequences to everyone in that market.

The free market:
The failed Copenhagen Treaty draft stipulated that the “government” that would be established would have the power to set the rules of all formerly free markets. There would be no such thing as free markets any more. In Cancun, the Chairman’s note merely says that various “market mechanisms” may be exploited by the Secretariat and by the parties to the Convention: but references to these “market mechanisms” are frequent enough to suggest that the intention remains to stamp out free markets worldwide.

Knowledge is power:
The Chairman’s note contains numerous references to a multitude of new as well as existing obligations on nation states to provide information to the Secretariat, in a form and manner which it will dictate. The hand of the EU is very visible here. It grabbed power from the member-states in four stages: first, acting merely as a secretariat to ensure stable supplies of coal and steel to rebuild Europe after the Second World War; then as a registry requiring member states to supply it with ever more information; then as a review body determining on the basis of the information supplied by the member states whether they were complying with their obligations on the ever-lengthier and more complex body of European treaties; and finally as the ultimate law-making authority, to which all elected parliaments, explicitly including the European “Parliament”, were and are subject. Under the Cancun propsoals, the Secretariat is following the path that the plague of EU officials here have no doubt eagerly advised it to follow. It is now taking numerous powers not merely to require information from nation states but to hold them to account for their supposed international obligations under the climate-change Convention on the basis of the information the nations are now to be compelled to supply.

Propaganda:
The Chairman’s note contains several mentions of the notion that the peoples of the world need to be told more about climate change. Here, too, there is a parallel with the EU, which administers a propaganda fund of some $250 million a year purely to advertise its own wonderfulness to an increasingly sceptical population. The IPCC already spends millions every year with PR agencies, asking them to find new ways of making its blood-curdling message more widely understood and feared among ordinary people. The Secretariat already has the advantage of an uncritical, acquiescent, scientifically illiterate, economically innumerate and just plain dumb news media: now it will have a propaganda fund to play with as well.

Damage caused by The Process:
At the insistence of sensible nation states such as the United States, the Czech Republic, Japan, Canada, and Italy, the Cancun outcome acknowledges that The Process is causing, and will cause, considerable economic damage, delicately described in the Chairman’s note as “unintended side-effects of implementing climate-change response measures”. The solution? Consideration of the catastrophic economic consequences of the Secretariat’s heroically lunatic decisions will fall under the control of – yup – the Secretariat. Admire its sheer gall.

Damage to world trade:

As the power, wealth and reach of the Secretariat grow, it finds itself rubbing uncomfortably up against other supranational organizations. In particular, the World Trade Organization has been getting antsy about the numerous aspects of the Secretariat’s proposals that constitute restrictions on international trade. At several points, the Chairman’s note expresses the “decision” – in fact, no more than an opinion and a questionable one at that – that the Secretariat’s policies are not restrictive of trade.

The Canute provision:

The conference will reaffirm the decision of its predecessor in Copenhagen this time last year “to hold the increase in global average temperature below 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels”, just like that. In fact, temperature in central England, and by implication globally, rose 2.2 Celsius in the 40 years 1695-1735, as the Sun began to recover from its 11,400-year activity minimum, and rose again by 0.74 C in the 20th century. There has been no warming in the 21st century, but we are already well over 2 Celsius degrees above pre-industrial levels. The Canute provision, as some delegates have dubbed it (after the Danish king of early England who famously taught his courtiers the limitations of his power and, a fortiori, theirs when he set up his throne on the beach and commanded sea level not to rise, whereupon the tide came in as usual and wet the royal feet), shows the disconnect between The Process and reality.

Omissions:

There are several highly-significant omissions, which jointly and severally establish that the central intent of The Process no longer has anything to do with the climate, if it ever had. The objective is greatly to empower and still more greatly to enrich the international classe politique at the expense of the peoples of the West, using the climate as a pretext, so as to copy the European Union by installing in perpetuity what some delegates here are calling “transnational perma-Socialism” beyond the reach or recall of any electorate. Here are the key omissions:

The science: The question whether any of this vast expansion of supranational power is scientifically necessary is not addressed. Instead, there is merely a pietistic affirmation of superstitious faith in the IPCC, where the conference will “recognize that deep cuts in global [greenhouse-gas] emissions are required according to science, and as documented in the [IPCC’s] Fourth Assessment Report.”
The economics: There is no assessment of the extent to which any of the proposed actions to mitigate “global warming” by cutting emissions of carbon dioxide or to adapt the world to its consequences will be cost-effective. Nor, tellingly, is there any direct comparison between mitigation and adaptation in their cost-effectiveness: indeed, the IPCC was carefully structured so that mitigation and adaptation are considered by entirely separate bureaucracies producing separate reports, making any meaningful comparison difficult. Though every economic analysis of this central economic question, other than that of the now-discredited Lord Stern, shows that mitigation is a pointless fatuity and that focused adaptation to the consequences of any “global warming” that may occur would be orders of magnitude cheaper and more cost-effective, the Cancun conference outcome will continue to treat mitigation as being of equal economic utility with adaptation.
Termination: Contracts have termination clauses to say what happens when the agreement ends. Nothing better illustrates the intent to create a permanent world-government structure than the absence of any termination provisions whatsoever in the Cancun outcome. The Process, like diamonds, is forever.
Democracy: Forget government of the people, by the people, for the people. Forget the principle of “no taxation without representation” that led to the very foundation of the United States. The provisions for the democratic election of the new, all-powerful, legislating, tax-raising world-government Secretariat by the peoples of the world may be summarized in a single word: None.
How did this monstrous transfer of power from once-proud, once-sovereign, once-democratic nations to the corrupt, unelected Secretariat come about? The story begins with Sir Maurice Strong, an immensely wealthy UN bureaucrat from Canada who, a quarter of a century ago, established the IPCC as an intergovernmental, political body rather than as a scientific body precisely so that it could be maneuvered into assisting in the UN’s long-term aim, reiterated at a summit of senior UN officials this May by Ban Ki-Moon himself, of extinguishing national sovereignty and establishing a world government.

The Process began in earnest in 1988, when the IPCC was established. Shortly thereafter, on a June day in Washington DC deliberately chosen by Al Gore because it was unusually hot, his political ally and financial benefactor James Hansen appeared before a Congressional committee and put before it a wildly-exaggerated graph predicting global warming over the coming 20 or 30 years. Yet June 2008, the 20th anniversary of his testimony, was cooler globally than June 1988, and worldwide warming has happened at less than half the rate he predicted.

The Rio Earth Summit in 1992 allowed environmental groups and world “leaders” to grandstand together. From that summit emerged the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, which began holding annual conferences on “global warming”.

The Kyoto Protocol in 1997 committed its signatories to cut back their national CO2 emissions to 1990 levels by 2012. Most are not going to make it. The US Senate, with Al Gore as its president, voted 95-0 to reject any treaty such as Kyoto, which bound only the West while leaving developing nations such as China to emit carbon dioxide without constraint.

Very little progress had been made by the time of the Bali conference in 2007: but at that conference a “road-map” was constructed that was to lead to a binding international treaty in Copenhagen in 2009.

Just one problem with that. The US Constitution provides that, even if the President has signed a treaty, his signature is meaningless unless the treaty has been debated in the Senate, which must ratify it by the votes of at least 67 of the 100 Senators. It became clear to everyone, after the Obama administration failed to cajole or bully even 60 Senators into passing the Waxman/Markey cap-and-tax Bill, that no climate treaty would pass the Senate.

Worse, the Secretariat grossly overreached itself. Believing its own propaganda to the effect that none but a few vexatious, fossil-funded sceptics believed that “global warming” would be small enough to be harmless, it drafted and posted up on its website a 186-page draft Treaty of Copenhagen, proposing to turn itself into an unelected world government with unlimited powers to impose direct taxation on member nations without representation, recourse or recall, to interfere directly in the environmental policies of individual nations, and to sweep away all free markets worldwide, replacing them with itself as the sole rulemaker in every marketplace (treaty draft, annex 1, articles 36-38). Some quotations from the draft reveal the sheer ambition of the UN:

“The scheme for the new institutional arrangement under the Convention will be based on three basic pillars: government; facilitative mechanism; and financial mechanism. … The government will be ruled by the Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change with the support of a new subsidiary body on adaptation, and of an Executive Board responsible for the management of the new funds and the related facilitative processes and bodies.” (Copenhagen Treaty draft of September 15, 2009, para. 38).

The three central powers that the UN had hoped to grant itself under the guise of Saving The Planet from alleged climate catastrophe were as follows:

“Government”: This use of the word “government” is the first use of the term to describe a world government in any international treaty draft.

“Financial mechanism”: The “financial mechanism” was a delicate phrase to describe a new power of the UN to levy unlimited taxation directly on the peoples of its member states: taxation without representation, and on a global scale.

“Facilitative mechanism”: This mechanism would, for the first time, have given the UN he power directly to coerce and compel compliance on the part of its member states, by force if necessary. The Treaty draft describes it as –

“… a facilitative mechanism drawn up to facilitate the design, adoption and carrying out of public policies, as the prevailing instrument, to which the market rules and related dynamics should be subordinate.”

In short, there was to be a New World Order, with a “government” having at its command a “financial mechanism” in the form of unlimited rights to tax the world’s citizen’s directly, and a “facilitative mechanism” that would bring the rules of all formerly free markets under the direct control of the new UN “government”, aided by an already-expanding series of bureaucracies.

At no point anywhere in the 186 pages of the Treaty draft do the words “democracy”, “election”, “ballot”, or “vote” appear. As the EU has already demonstrated, the transfer of powers from sovereign democracies to supranational entities brings those democracies to an end. At the supranational level, in the UN, in the EU and in the proposed world government, decisions are not made by anyone whom we, the voters, have elected to make such decisions.

The exposure of the draft treaty in major international news media panicked the UN into abandoning the draft before the Copenhagen conference even began. Instead, the UN is now legislating crabwise, as the European Union does, with a series of successive annual agreements, the last of which was the Copenhagen Accord, each transferring more power and wealth from individual nations to its supranational bureaucracy. The latest of these agreements is being finalized here in Cancun.

The European Union, which has stealthily stamped out democracy over the past half-century by a series of treaties each transferring a little more power and wealth from elected hands in the member states to unelected hands in Brussels, has been advising the Secretariat on how to do the same on a global scale.

After the spectacular bloody nose the Secretariat got in Copenhagen, it was most anxious not to endure a second failure in Cancun. To this end, it obtained the agreement of the German government to host a monthly series of conferences in Bonn in the early part of 2010, some of which were open to outside observers and some were behind closed doors in a comfortable suburban palace, where the new way of legislating for the world – in secret – first came into use.

The Chinese regime, anxious to get a piece of the action, agreed to host an additional session in Tientsin a few weeks ago. The purpose of this near-perpetual international junketing – which the national delegates have greatly enjoyed at our expense – was to make sure that nearly all of the elements in the Cancun agreement were firmly in draft and agreed well before Cancun, so as to avoid what too many journalists have tediously and obviously described as a “Mexican stand-off”.

It is precisely because of all this massive and expensive preparation that the note by the Chairman, whose main points are summarized above, may well reflect what is finally decided and announced here in a couple of days’ time. The Chairman is not simply guessing: this Note reflects what the Secretariat now confidently expects to get away with.

However, following the Copenhagen disaster, our grim future New Masters are taking no chances. They persuaded their friends in the mainstream news media, who cannot now easily back out of their original declarations of blind faith in the Church of “Global Warming” and are as anxious not to lose face as the Secretariat is, to put it about that at Cancun this year and even at Durban next year very little of substance will occur.

The intention is that, after not one but two international climate conferences, the second of them in Rio in 2012 on the 20th anniversity of the Earth Summit that began it all, the Secretariat will have become so wealthy and will have accreted so much power to itself that no one – not even the US Senate – will dare to resist ratifying the Treaty of Rio that brings democracy to an end worldwide and fulfils Lord Mandelson’s recent statement that “we are now living in a post-democratic age.”

Over my dead body. The people know best what is best for the people. The governing class no doubt knows what is best for the governing class, but does not necessarily know what is best for the people, and must always be kept in check by the ballot-box.

If we are to have a world government at all (and, as the science of “global warming” alarm continues to collapse, the current pretext for world domination by a privileged few is wearing more than a little thin), then it is essential that the world government should be an elected government, and that, as Article 1, Section 1 of the US Constitution makes plain when it grants “All legislative power” to the elected Congress and to the now-elected Senate, none shall make laws for the world or impose taxes upon the world except those whom the people of the world have elected by universal secret ballot.

How can we, the people, defeat the Secretariat and keep the democracy we love? Simply by informing our elected representatives of the scope, ambition, and detail of what is in the Cancun agreement. The agreement will not be called a “Treaty”, because the Senate, particularly after the mid-term elections, will not pass it. But it can still be imposed upon us by the heavily Left-leaning Supreme Court, which no longer makes any pretence at judicial impartiality and may well decide, even if Congress does not, that the Cancun agreement shall stand part of US law on the ground that it is “customary international law”.

I call on COP16 delegates and the citizens of the world to repent of this dangerous course and so inform their government officials. It is the power of individual nations and individual citizens that is being taken away. It is democracy, that will perish from the Earth unless this burgeoning nonsense is stopped.
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December 13, 2010 7:34pm
reid

Ron Paul on the 3.3 trillion bailout to the banks.

Pity the US taxpayer wasn’t told about it at the time and it’s taken a hard fight to get it out, isn’t it. Imagine if the NZ govt gave say $200 billion to the banks, because “they’re too big to fail.”
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December 13, 2010 8:22pm
Hurf Durf

Left wing idiot par excellence Little Johann Hari thinks that Assange’s actions have made us “safer” because they “exposed” a “secret” war against Islamists in Yemen. It’s only a secret if you haven’t been paying attention to security policy in the last year; as Hari is an ignorant leftie that is most likely why. The truth is, as I pointed out on another topic, people less willing, able and/or prepared to produce good, reliable information to a range of diplomats > inaccurate diplomatic reports > foreign policies built on misjudgements and assumptions > US less able to effectively address wider Western interests and more Iraq Wars. Hari does not just engage in appeasement (an actual policy which bought the UK time to start rearming for the eventual war), he engages in “keep your head in the sand and hope it’ll go away” (a delusion which is just going to get a lot of people killed). Hari’s opinion would not be so enraging if he was just another irrelevant Fabian berk banging away on twitter rather than a “respected” “journalist.”
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December 13, 2010 9:47pm
reid

Hurf this won’t change a thing in reality apart from increasing security. Diplomats won’t stop saying what they’ve always said and Assange has no legal nor moral obligation to support the US or any other country in what they do.

He should not be charged with anything. Personally I’d prefer more and more Assanges to pop up as they will, because as time goes by and more and more obvious SNAFUs and worse come to pass courtesy of prima-facie childishly simplistic diplomatic mis-steps I have less and less faith in global politians. It’s not the diplomat’s faults, they’re doing what they have always done, professionally, but FFS, the geo-political mis-steps by political leaders across the world in the last twenty years have been frankly so appalling it’s hard to conclude they’re mistaken and I’m increasingly forced by evidence to adopt the view it’s been deliberate and if that’s the case, I’m all for exposure, as well as imprisonment and worse for the miscreant politicians. I repeat, not the diplomats, the politicians. They’re either completely fucking hopeless, the whole lot of them, or they’re evil. No third choice.
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December 13, 2010 10:52pm
Hurf Durf

It’s not the diplomats, reid, it’s the sources.

I agree that Assange should be left alone. He’s a symptom rather than the disease; the disease being a system that allowed a 22 year old drama queen with a chip on his shoulder access to sensitive information.

They’re either completely fucking hopeless, the whole lot of them, or they’re evil. No third choice.

Hahaha, I like it.
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December 13, 2010 11:06pm
Redbaiter

I disagree. I think Assange and Manning should be prosecuted for espionage and if convicted receive the death penalty. Free speech is not a licence to threaten any country’s national security. But then I’m not a devotee of Pilger or Palast like Reid.
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December 13, 2010 11:13pm
wikiriwhis business

@Pollywog

It was good of the farmer to come back and inform you of the other dog. Esp since he was caught in the act. It’s hard for people to admit their mistakes although I don’t see a Border Collie capable of being Cujo. And not a sign of blood on his muzzle. And what an appetite for a Border Collie. Esp a fed one!
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December 13, 2010 11:14pm
RobbieBlack

Pollywog:

“now what have i told you about posting while pissed ???”

Haha, thanks for the care. Yeah it’s a hard habit to kick and has got me into trouble in the past, but it is fun, when I wake up I first click on demerits to see if I am a gonner.

But luckily, only fifty.

You seem to be a pretty decent chap.

Merry Xmas.
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December 14, 2010 1:32am
Pete George

“I think Assange and Manning should be prosecuted for espionage and if convicted receive the death penalty. Free speech is not a licence to threaten any country’s national security.

So you don’t agree with the First Amendment of the US constitution. Liberty for anyone who toes the line. Free speech is just for you and those you agree with, and once again you suggest killing off anyone you don’t like.
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December 14, 2010 6:30am
Viking2

ACC gets its arse kicked in Court. And rightly so. This is the genius of one Nick Smith. What a total waste of space this man is.

The ACC files: Degeneration used as easy way out, says judge
By Martin Johnston
5:30 AM Tuesday Dec 14, 2010

A judge has pulled up ACC for frequently seizing on age-related degeneration of claimants’ bodies as a reason for unjustifiably rejecting their claims for surgery after an injury.

To save money, the ACC has tightened up on which surgery claims it will cover. It says it is simply more strictly applying the legislation under which it operates

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10694116
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December 14, 2010 6:56am
Put it away

So Pete, which State of the Union are wikileaks’ servers located in exactly, for the US Constitution to be relevant here? Moron. The only thing that happened under US Jurisdiction was espionage.
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December 14, 2010 7:09am
Manolo

“ACC gets its arse kicked in Court. And rightly so. This is the genius of one Nick Smith. What a total waste of space this man is.”

Surely, his boss Key is also guilty for tolerating and keeping the incompetent Smith as minister of ACC and the Environment. Labour-lite is absolutely rudderless.
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December 14, 2010 7:31am
Pete George

PIA – do you think the death sentence would be appropriate?

“The only thing that happened under US Jurisdiction was espionage.”

Some low level documents that have embarrassed due to lax security far more than threatened any security. Manning (and anyone else who may have been involved) will likely get done for something, but a death sentence for that would be gross overkill – you might expect it somewhere like China, but the US?

Assange claims to be a journalist and has done what many media do, enabled publication. That is a much more difficult proposition to prosecute, and the death sentence shouldn’t be seriously considered even if they can get any charges to stick. It would be a huge freedom of speech issue.
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December 14, 2010 7:41am
Nookin

“This is the genius of Nick Smith”
ACC have been doing this for years. The issue is whether there was an accident (ie trauma causing spinal damage which is covered) or gradual deterioration causing debillitation (which is not an accident and not covered). What is or is not an accident has been the subject of litigation under the ACC scheme since 1972. I hardly think that this is solely attributable to Nick Smith.
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December 14, 2010 7:45am
Herman Poole

Pansy Wong resigns:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4455775/Pansy-Wong-quits-Parliament
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December 14, 2010 10:46am
Pete George

Labour must really want the expense of another by-election, this time in a safe National seat.
At best they may gain a few points – at what cost?
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December 14, 2010 10:48am

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