General Debate 28 April 2011

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immigant

First!

Watching the Don, taking over ACT, a party that by NZ standards is supposed to be very right wing, made me stop and consider something. How far left has the spectrum of NZ politics really shifted?
Over the decades, how far has Labour pulled the blanket of power over itself, to leave the centre of the bed not really covered, and the left becoming much further from the internationally agreed definitions of centre?
Would the overall shift of NZ closer to the left and it’s slippery slide towards communism explain why National is a former shadow of itself?
When I look at it the insane policies of Labour and the greens, and the quite obviously limited changed that National has implemented over the last term, it seems that the slide to communism in NZ has certainly slowed, but has not stopped.
National and Labour seem to be left and right of each other on the local political spectrum, certainly.
However I put to you that our point of view has slipped and if we were to place the parties on the same spectrum for measure as it stood say 15 years ago, Greens would be extreme left ,modern Labour would be far left, modern National would be centre left and poor little ACT that is at the moment being accused of practically being Fascist, is currently closer to centre right that National is.
I do take into account that ACT’s ideas are at the moment half baked, but the intention and general direction of rhetoric is what I base this proposal on.
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April 28, 2011 8:57am
Murray

There are internationally agreed definitions of centre now are there? Was there a meeting or something?

Anyone checked with the French revolutionary assembly that the terms left and right come from to actually get a baseline?

BTW it was the left that gave us the terror because they worked out that if they just killed enough people who disagreed with them then everyone would be on the same page and everything would be wonderful. Thank god the left doesn’t behave like that anymore… does it?
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April 28, 2011 9:01am
mattyroo

Can we send the bunch of Malaysian drug mules back to Malaysia to face the full force of Malaysian law with respect to drug crimes??? If only…..
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April 28, 2011 9:02am
immigant

Murray

There are no ‘international’ spectrum definitions. What I’m getting at is the whole country has slipped so far left, we’ve lost track of what real center and real right and center.
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April 28, 2011 9:07am
kaya

internationally agreed definitions of centre

That’s a very left wing thing to say really……..
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April 28, 2011 9:09am
tristanb

Can we send the bunch of Malaysian drug mules back to Malaysia to face the full force of Malaysian law with respect to drug crimes??? If only…

Not if it meant getting back Sharon Armstrong! I’m sure these ten drug mules will be cheaper to prosecute than the crap we’d have to go through if Sharon Armstrong was tried in NZ!

There’d be all sorts of denials, all sorts of claims of racism, all sorts of scum yelling abuse in the courts. I prefer the Malaysian chaps.
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April 28, 2011 9:09am
smttc

Looks like Hide is not only fighting for the leadership of ACT. But in fact his political survival. Brash inferred on Morning Report this morning that there is no place for Hide on the party list and in parliament under a Brash lead ACT party. It will be interesting to see how Hide reacts to this news. Go independent if he is rolled?
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April 28, 2011 9:11am
Pete George

It’s a waste of time getting bothered by what left, right and centre may mean. It’s the wrong approach to anything. Each issue should be considered on it’s merits, not from one side or another of some imgainary fence.

It would be interesting if Hide went independent and stayed with Epsom – especially if there was enough sympathy with him there to retain the seat in November.
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April 28, 2011 9:12am
immigant

What is considered center in NZ might be very right wing in Mexico for example
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April 28, 2011 9:13am
dime

wheres redbaiter? he must be stoked with obamas birth certificate!
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April 28, 2011 9:13am
peterwn

mattyroo – If NZ put them on the next plane back to Malaysia, and the NZ Customs and cops were prepared to testify, I think they could be successfully prosecuted under Malaysian law for exporting illegal drugs. However this would cause a A grade political stink in NZ if they faced the rotan or gallows. If they are prosecuted and sentenced under NZ law, further action would be ‘double jeopardy’ and I think Malaysian law will be similar to NZ law on this (both being former British colonies). It seems NZ immediately deports for minor drug infringements, but will arrest and charge for serious offending.
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April 28, 2011 9:14am
KH

The Clark government managed to get enough people on welfare – ‘working for families’ and the other government bribes. (note the lawyers alarmed at the curtailment of the legal aid cash pipe line) etc etc etc and etc. That the consciousness of the public is that there is always a fairy godmother to sprinkle cash about.
It was remarkably successful.
Perhaps it will also be impossible to recover from. Can the ‘right’ ever recover. Perhaps not.
Pity. Perhaps New Zealand is now permanently screwed.
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April 28, 2011 9:14am
Lance

@dime
One of his accolites is keeping the flame burning in general debate 27th April
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April 28, 2011 9:15am
dime

if rodney goes independent, he gets govt funding for the election because hes an MP?
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April 28, 2011 9:16am
kaya

PG – agreed, labels are one of the main factors in most of the problems of the world. We just can’t get past the tribal stage really can we? 🙂
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April 28, 2011 9:17am
mattyroo

tristanb, yes that would be something we would certainly need to weigh up. I can just see Kim Workman getting his ‘racist white judiciary’ bullets ready to fire!
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April 28, 2011 9:17am
Sofia

Harawira has missed the deadline for allocated radio and TV advertising time before the election. [Why vote for someone who tends to miss important moments.] So is this the reason behind suggestions that Harawira may force a by-election, which may cost around $500,000. Where would that place him in comparison to tax-thief Winston Peters? Half a million for a by-election is roughly three times Peter’s indiscretion. But then, of course, Harawira may miss the May 28 date to resign six months before the Election, to force any by-election.
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April 28, 2011 9:19am
kaya

Who would have thought it, the POTUS is an American?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/watch-latest-farce-live-obama-presents-his-birth-certificate-public
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April 28, 2011 9:20am
Murray

Since left and right definitions are of no meaning why do the media always use “right wing” as a slur?
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April 28, 2011 9:23am
Murray

kaya who would though that a POTUS could be such a complete dickhead… oh wait they also elected Jimmah Carter.
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April 28, 2011 9:24am
big bruv

Well that is the end of the Donald Trump Presidential campaign…:)

I wonder how the Tea party idiots and the Birthers are going to spin this one.
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April 28, 2011 9:26am
Pete George

[Note Father’s place of birth. Kenya, not America. Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen and therefore not eligible to be President.]

That’s Redbaiters fairly predictable response. Obama was right, releasing it wouldn’t stop the desperate.

Trump thinks it’s a triumph for him, that he forced Obama’s hand. It just highlights what a chump Trump is.
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April 28, 2011 9:29am
tristanb

wheres redbaiter? he must be stoked with obamas birth certificate!

He’s just going to call it fake. Well, he’ll call it a gape-jawed brainless communist progressive drooling red fake.

That’s why you can’t take these nutjob “republicans” (WTF, RB lives in Tauranga not USA doesn’t he?) seriously. They obsess about crap like birth certificates and make themselves look like dickheads, and no-one believes anything else they say.
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April 28, 2011 9:31am
Komata

Perhaps I’ve missed something. . .

Can someone please explain to me how it is that Mr. D Brash can make a ‘take over bid’ for the leadership of ACT when (if the MSM is to be believed – which is doubtful at the best of times) he doesn’t even hold ACT party membership and is therefore inelligable to do anything but express an opinion (and then only if invited and ONLY at a properly convened meeting), let alone try to set himself up as ‘King’ of a party to which he has paid no membership fees and has not until now, given any indication of allegience?

Most odd – or are political parties covered by rules which allow such things?
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April 28, 2011 9:33am
Sonny Blount

What has happened to the forgery industry today, 2 1/2 years for one document. It took so long they had to use a Democrat to generate an excuse to release it.
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April 28, 2011 9:34am
Inventory2

@ Pete; I doubt that Redbaiter figures high on Obama’s list of concerns.
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April 28, 2011 9:34am
Sofia

If there was any truth in the Pike River Mine conspiracy, why would ‘implicated” police now reveal continuing investigations into the borehole 47 video?
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/4935973/Body-seen-in-Pike-River-mine
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April 28, 2011 9:36am
Lucia Maria

Komata,

That’s what I’ve been wondering. Everyone just seem to be playing along with it as well.
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April 28, 2011 9:41am
smttc

Komata, it appears Brash has done exactly that. As I tried to suggest yesterday (for which I got shot down in flames by gooner and IV2), why the fuck would Brash bother to apply for membership unless his coup succeeded? It is a mere procedural formality if he has the numbers and ear of the party.
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April 28, 2011 9:42am
wat dabney

Climategate goes SERIAL: now the Russians confirm that UK climate scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/
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April 28, 2011 10:06am
Ed Snack

Interesting decision by Obama to release his long-form birth certificate. I was convinced he’d hang out as long as possible because it was a tactic designed to attract the conspiracy theorists and provide a distraction. It does show that, at least in the Obama team’s eyes, that Trump was gaining surprising traction with the whole issue of Obama’s secrecy over his records.

Trump always struck me as an unlikely Republican candidate though, he is (or perhaps clearly was) a definite liberal in his outlook, and I believe backed Obama at the last election. His positions on foreign affairs so far are a joke and one feels that he is where he is because of his “celebrity” status and clear name recognition, plus a ludicrous amount of media coverage.

Could he be a stalking horse for someone else; could he be a Clintonite, or could he be a general GOP rabbit ? I would have thought him well qualified in such a role, he loves the limelight, and note that although apparently running a campaign he hasn’t declared as a candidate. Could he have been set up to take on the no-records in general and birther in particular to try to (successfully now it seems) defuse that issue ?

This has to be a win for the GOP in general. Although birtherism was not at all a “Tea Party” issue (although it was espoused by some peripherally associated with that movement the Tea Party in general tried to steer well clear of anything to do with it), it did have a significant following amongst the base GOP factions. Now, for the nutty section (and all parties have some that can be so classified), what will they fix on next.
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April 28, 2011 10:07am
Elaycee

Clearly some folks have forgotten that, in the first place ACT approached Brash and asked whether he would consider a co-leadership role. This was subsequently declined with Brash (apparently) saying that it was the top job by himself or no job at all. For ACT to approach Brash in the first place, the approach must have been within their rules. For Brash to now play some cards back at ACT, it follows that this tactic must also be fair game.

Whilst there has been a fair question raised about the tactics deployed, there can be no criticism (surely) about Brash’s motives. ACT right now is dead in the water and if the voter wants a centre right Government this election, then the choice is very limited. Strategic thinking is required (without resorting to the “win at all costs” tactics demonstrated by a previous regime). A strong ACT (with an electorate seat in Epsom and also polling above 5%) will provide National with a workable majority – safe from any opportunity that the lunatics on the left could cobble together another “flotsam and jetsam” coalition.

Brash isn’t silly. I suspect that much of this has been well planned in advance and we are only seeing things roll to their logical conclusion.
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April 28, 2011 10:12am
Komata

Smttc

Thanks – but if Brash ISN’T a member (and has yet to meet a legally-mandated probationary period when he actually joins-up), then how can he do what he is doing constitutionally? Surely such activities are illegal under the Friendly Societies Act or something similar.

As well, and even more oddly, why is it that no Constitutional lawyer has leapt out of the woodwork crying ‘You can’t do that’ and telling everyone who is within earshot exactly why etc, and quoting chapter and verse.
They are usually so very good at it, yet this time their silence is deafening, to say the least.

Conspiracy? Something we mere mortals aren’t privy to? The deliberate ‘setting-up’ of the Don to cause him the maximum amopunt of embassarement when he falls?

Curiouser and curiouser. .
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April 28, 2011 10:13am
Komata

Elaycee

Thanks for the reminder about pst ‘negotiations’. However, it still dosen’t solve the ‘Constitutional/Membership question, unlesss ACT ‘management’ were going to ‘do a ‘Labour party’ and rapidly enrol them promote Brash to ‘a position of importance’. However, IF that was to be done, it would immediately raise credibility issues along the ‘can this man be trusted’ line; as it is, questiosn should already be being asked as to why now, why not before etc’.

Perhaps ‘The smell of the Hansard, the roar of the crowd ‘ is after all, addictive . . .

one wonders.
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April 28, 2011 10:26am
smttc

Komata, it is simple. Because he can. As someone pointed out on the Calvert thread, if you were drowning and a surf life saver turned up, would you ask to see his certificate before accepting his offer of assistance?
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April 28, 2011 10:29am
KiwiGreg

It’s clear that the aliens would have the technology to forge the necessary certificates.
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April 28, 2011 10:41am
The Hoff

Will Harawira’s Maori Party 2.0 succeed?…
http://wp.me/p1rzNS-cV
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April 28, 2011 10:44am
peterwn

Whether Don Brash is a ACT party member is not relevant. If he has support within the party to lead ACT into the next election, membership is a formality. Membership would be necessary to be party leader but can always be applied for after securing the ‘numbers’ and before being formally appointed. If there is a big groundswell of support any rule that hinders the process can be amended. It does seem to me that in Auckland there are various political activists who ‘oscillate’ between National and ACT depending on circumstances.
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April 28, 2011 10:46am
kaya

Murray – if Obama and Carter are “dickheads” then Reagan and Dubya look pretty tragic. It’s irrelevant which dummy they put at the front of the ship, it’s still run by Wall Street.
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April 28, 2011 10:51am
mikeysmokes

For Redbaiter http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/27/birthers-still-have-quest_n_854591.html

Fucken hilarious those “birther” people
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April 28, 2011 11:07am
Bobbie black

Seems as if that rich talentless American bald guy who simply inherited all his wealth (sadly not hair) is now thinking of running for politics as a Republican.

Forget his name but I just know him as the guy with the REALLY bad comb over, his true apprentice.

You know him, he’s the one who stirred up all the shit about Obama not being born in the USA, like the Boss.

Jesus those Republicans are getting desperate.

But at least he can pay his bills.

I wonder if Labour will think about trying to recruit our own tycoon.
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April 28, 2011 11:19am
Johnboy

A cynical fellow may think that Trump was acting as a stalking horse for Sarah.

He is certainly starting to make her look like a much more intelligent choice than himself as Republican candidate. 🙂
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April 28, 2011 11:25am
kiwi in america

Now the Birther debate will switch from “show us the LFBC” to – “its a forgery!” I note that Redbaiter wasted no time posting links to forgery claims. He also claims having a father not born in the US disqualifies him from being President. Article 2 states he has to be a natural born Citizen – which he clearly is. Funny I don’t recall anyone challenging Gov Dukakis’ qualifications to run for President in 1988 when both his parents were born in Greece.

Its time now to fight Obama on his lousy policies and put this Birther crap to bed.
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April 28, 2011 11:34am
KH

I was watching Lula of Brazil on Al Jazeera. (You got to get decent information from somewhere)
he said. “We are a capitalist country, but the trouble was we had no capital”
I thought “sounds familiar”
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April 28, 2011 11:38am
starboard

“A fully-clothed body has been identified inside the Pike River mine and there is evidence to suggest the man may have survived the first blast. Pike River Coal receiver John Fisk said he and the families were notified of the discovery yesterday.
There have also been reports of evidence that the rescue boxes in the mine had been opened, which suggest some miners would have survived the first blast on November 19 last year”

They should have gone in right after the first blast when the gas levels were lower. Too much standing back hand wringing, HSE blah blah , formulating risk strategies blah blah. They fucked up and it cost lives.
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April 28, 2011 12:19pm
kaya

Rodney has resigned.

starboard – that story has huge implications. I will wait to hear more before venting. From the earliest days of that disaster I said the police should never have been in charge, I will still say that even if this does not turn out the way it looks like it could be going. Good grief.
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April 28, 2011 12:26pm
Luc Hansen

As I suggested last night, Don the Lothario has worked his charms again. Hillary just didn’t stand a chance 🙂 (It’s a joke, DPF, just in case you head for the demerit trigger yet again)

Labour’s new campaign slogan:

A vote for National is a vote for Don Brash.

That should do it!

But, seriously, it looks like National could be heading into a very hard winter – a winter of discontent? – and I suspect Labour (and Hone Harawira) can hardly restrain their glee.

For myself, I just enjoy a good stoush and the Don always fronts up in that regard.
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April 28, 2011 12:26pm
Fletch

WHoever forged Obama’s birth cert didn’t do a very good job. The whole thing is broken down over at Atlas, but for one –

I just checked the official web site for Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital and according to the information there, the name of the hospital at the time of his birth should have been Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital. According to the web site the name didn’t change to Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital merged with Kapi‘olani Maternity Home in 1978. So how could his official long form birth certificate that was generated in 1961 have the name of the hospital that wasn’t created until 1978?

Also, wasn’t he born Barry Soetero? And changed his name later?

Too funny…

More – http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/04/layering-obamas-new-colb-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers.html
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April 28, 2011 12:41pm
wreck1080

The whole pike mine disaster has been thrown into a new light.

The experts determined that there would have been no survivors after the initial Pike River blast.

But, given todays news the experts may have been wrong. This is tragic news for the families , it would have been better for them to believe their loved ones died immediately.

The other day, a cop risked his life by saving a person in a burning house…

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1104/S00286/te-puke-constable-douses-house-fire.htm

Just saying.
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April 28, 2011 12:51pm
Fletch

ps, the article on Atlas site also shows you what happens when you open up the Obama’s Birth Cert PDF in Illustrator.
I opened it myself here at work, and it has clipping masks/objects for the various parts/names that have been dropped in!

It’s an obvious fake. As I said, I can even see it myself and the clipping masks for each object.

If it were a real copy, it would just have been scanned in as one complete image.

If you have Illustrator, download it and try it yourself!
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April 28, 2011 12:51pm
Pete George

Oh my god! Did someone on the grassy knoll scan the birth certificate? Have they checked to make sure there are no explosive charges embedded in the document?

Way to go Obama, you’ve really distracted the crazies this time.

BTW, did you hear about the ten commandments being faked? That sort of stone could never have been etched to that level of detail in those days.
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April 28, 2011 1:21pm
Johnboy

Now you are just being silly Petey. We all know that God (being omnipotent) had access to a CNC laser etching machine. 🙂
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April 28, 2011 1:29pm
cha

Now, where are the tax returns?.
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April 28, 2011 1:30pm
cha

Sarah Palin:

Media: admit it, Trump forced the issue. Now, don’t let the WH distract you w/the birth crt from what Bernanke says today. Stay focused, eh?

The Republican National Committee:

Obama’s release of his birth cert. is a nice, but temporary distraction for him from high gas prices & a terrible economy

Mitt Romney:

What President Obama should really be releasing is a jobs plan

Newt Gingrich:

“All I would say is, why did it take so long?” Gingrich said. “The whole thing is strange.”
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April 28, 2011 1:37pm
shady

I thought after the first explosion at Pike River they were talking about a live rescue – it was after the 2nd explosion that it was announced that there could not be any survivors. Or am I getting mixed up with the earthquake?
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April 28, 2011 2:00pm
starboard

Hone Harawira commented this morning in The Press saying how he has support from non maori in the South Island..what a crock of shit..if you believe that harawira you are delusional. There wouldnt be one sane intelligent white person in this country who would ever subscribe to your racist divisive dribble. Hopefully after this years election (and certain caning) you will realise what ding bats you and your followers truly are and crawl back under the slimy rocks from where you came forth, never to be heard from again.
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April 28, 2011 2:07pm
Johnboy

I reckon it was a misprint starboard, the dumb journo meant to write “he has support from nine maori in the South Island”.
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April 28, 2011 2:29pm
DJP6-25

Ed Snack 10:07 am. I always assumed 0bama would produce it at a convenient moment. I guess the ‘birthers’ don’t have a leg to stand on. However, there should be a new rule requiring all presidential candidates to produce one when they declare.
senator McCain did that.

cheers

David Prosser
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April 28, 2011 2:32pm
DJP6-25

Komata 10:13 That would be easier if we had a real constitution that you could download. What we have is a collection of historical documents, conventions, and some Pol Sci textbooks.

cheers

David Prosser
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April 28, 2011 2:36pm
jaba

sorry starboard 2:07 .. not a shit show in hell of this racist redneck tosspot of crawling away never to be heard from again.
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April 28, 2011 3:24pm
RRM

Dear America;

We were wrong. I guess this means you were right.

Yours,
The Birther Movement. (Ret.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110427/ts_yblog_theticket/white-house-releases-obama-birth-certificate
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April 28, 2011 4:36pm
Pete George

But but but RRM, if you check the Birther expert who used to frequent this blog you will see that there are many reasons why it proves nothing.

For example, there is no proof his mother was in Hawaii when he was born there.
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April 28, 2011 4:52pm
RRM

^^^ Thank God he is still banned from here is all I can say PG. You wouldn’t be able to get a word in edgeways.
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April 28, 2011 4:57pm
starboard

“A six-month-old baby girl from Ngaruawahia taken to Auckland’s Starship Hospital with “non-accidental” injuries is in a critical but stable condition today.

A large police team is investigating how the baby, who the Waikato Times named as Serenity Jay Scott, suffered severe injuries in the Waikato town on Tuesday”

Aw well we were half right. Someone did suggest silly name syndrome yesterday.
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April 28, 2011 5:15pm
Luc Hansen

This is such a beat up. Obama has already produced his birth certificate for both his Senate and presidential campaigns and I have viewed a copy as shown by Fox Non News.

This latest production is the long version.

But all Obama has done now is to feed oxygen to the crazies.

And make Trump look like a contender.

Silly bugger.
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April 28, 2011 5:55pm
kaya

starboard – the child died, just been updated. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4935037/Baby-fighting-for-her-life-princess-of-the-family

This is a relatively new pehnomenon isn’t it? I certainly can’t remember this happening in the 60’s and 70’s. If it is then what has changed to turn people into baby batterers and killers?
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April 28, 2011 6:02pm
chiz

Starboard:Hone Harawira commented this morning in The Press saying how he has support from non maori in the South Island..what a crock of shit..if you believe that harawira you are delusional. There wouldnt be one sane intelligent white person in this country who would ever subscribe to your racist divisive dribble

Your usage of the words sane and intelligent are relevant here. Not all white people are sane or intelligent. There probably are white people who would vote for him – think of various greenies and protestors.
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April 28, 2011 6:04pm
Yvette

Headline –
Harawira surprised by SI support

detail –
LATEST: Hone Harawira says he is surprised at the level of support for him in the South Island.
The independent MP met about 10 supporters at the Rehua marae in St Albans last night as part of a South Island trip.
He has held similar meetings in Invercargill and Dunedin ahead of an expected party launch this weekend.

[Actually, how can a reporter write “about 10”? – maybe missing a couple of fingers or something?]

And –
The quarterly list of expenses for MPs has been released this morning and former Maori Party MP Hone Harawira, now an independent, tops the list … Harawira’s expenses [$42,971] are not far off the entire total for the four members of the Maori Party [$44,410] who he split from in February.
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April 28, 2011 6:09pm
starboard

Mr Kokshoorn is adamant rescuers should have entered in the hours following the first blast.

“Every mining disaster since 1978, and there have been eight, they have always gone in immediately, and apart from two bodies in the Strongman mine, they have always brought out all the men,” he said.
He said New Zealand had become “wrapped up in health and safety” and “political correctness”, which stopped rescuers entering the mine.
“Instinct would have got those men out”

Yup.. on the button Tony..the handwringing PC health and safety brigade have blood on their hands..they should be strung up from the nearest lampost.
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April 28, 2011 6:33pm
Johnboy

“Yup.. on the button Tony..the handwringing PC health and safety brigade have blood on their hands..they should be strung up from the nearest lampost.”

Along with Auntie Helen who helped buy her way into power by purchasing the 20,000 odd public servant/arsewipes who spent all their time inventing the continual rules that fuck up real workers from trying to do their bloody jobs.

Fuck I hate socialist scum! 🙂
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April 28, 2011 6:39pm
Johnboy

Maybe he had to spend some money on getting Titiwhai a new purple rinse for her beautiful hair Yvette?
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April 28, 2011 6:41pm
Johnboy

Shit I wasn’t far out eh Yvette. It was ten Murri not nine. Te he he. Phew eh! 🙂
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April 28, 2011 6:43pm
starboard

the white man is useful for something…funding harawira’s jetsetting lifestyle. What a joke.
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April 28, 2011 6:44pm
Luc Hansen

You think the AOS should have dealt to them, too, Johnboy?
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April 28, 2011 6:46pm
kaya

Wall Street wives taking the piss out of taxpayers in the US with bailout money. Where’s Robespierre when you need him?

Christy Mack, John Mack’s (chairman of Morgan Stanley) wife, and Susan Karches, the widow of Morgan Stanley’s former investment-banking division president, Peter Karches, took $220 million in a TALF loan, according to an upcoming Rolling Stone article.

Exhibit one: a company that the wives invested $15 million in called the Waterfall TALF Opportunity.

After founding and investing in the company, the wives took $220 million in TALF loans, bought “student loans and commercial mortgages” — and didn’t pay back $150 million yet (as of the fall).

TALF, was a $200 billion program designed to help lending to small businesses and consumers.

It was also very easy to rip off.

Nice work if you can get it.
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April 28, 2011 6:49pm
joana

Of course it is a fake Fletch because he is a fake. There is no record of when and why he changed his name from Barry Soetoro to Obama. Mind you , muslim men do change their names regularly. People who knew him as a teenager knew him as Barry Soetoro. He has said he has always been a Christian yet he was a muslim in Indonesia attending agama classes with all the other muslims..
Why spend millions of dollars trying to hide something if there is nothing to hide?
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April 28, 2011 6:50pm
reid

Good spotting kaya. That’s disgraceful. I hope they get imprisoned as well as the people who advised them to do it.

Interesting isn’t it, how it underlines the snouts in the trough mentality which characterises many of the very rich, as well as many of the very poor.
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April 28, 2011 6:51pm
kaya

reid – greed is greed in any form. It’s characterised by taking at the expense of others without giving a shit.

I loved the description at the end of the RS article:

But the federal aid they received actually falls under a broader category of bailout initiatives, designed and perfected by Federal Reserve chief Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, called “giving already stinking rich people gobs of money for no fucking reason at all.”
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April 28, 2011 6:59pm
Put it away

“Meanwhile, elsewhere, talking about colonialism, Fatah and Hamas continue the charade of a “government” of occupied territories. Hamas, in particular, risks losing its mantle as the prime resistor of occupation as it moves ever closer to a collaborationist setting (a mantle the sad remnants of the PLO has already embraced).”

Oh dear Luc Handson, have your favourite terrorists dropped below the required quota of jews murdered? Sucks when people sell out and lose their principles eh? Oh well.
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April 28, 2011 7:04pm
joana

How has [NZ’s] Tolalau become the cyber crime capital of the world? How much has NZ spent on Tokalau over the years? It has a population of 1,400 people.
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April 28, 2011 7:09pm
starboard

useless info time…just eating a bar of cadbury chocolate which was once 200 gram.. noticed its now 190 gram, price still the same as the old 200gram size, dirty mongrels.
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April 28, 2011 7:18pm
Johnboy

Welfare corrupts all its recipients joana Murri, Tokalau, all the same.

Luc: F off dipstick. 🙂
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April 28, 2011 7:24pm
reid

Liarbore flying a new kite, the highly volatile and delicate Christchurch response-recovery card is being played. Oh dear.

Newsflash Liarbore, betta keep this local cause if you go national you’ll be back in the news cycle and won’t that be good. (Just not for you.)

How has [NZ’s] Tolalau become the cyber crime capital of the world?

Any background on this joanna?
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April 28, 2011 7:26pm
Luc Hansen

Ah, Johnboy, so you reserve your murderous intent just for the Urewera 18?

Put it Away, murdering Jews is an entirely different issue to resistance to occupation. Resistance is legal. Crimes against humanity, such as targeting civilians, is not. Both sides are guilty of the latter.

But eventually, it will all be over one day.

How do you think it will end?
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April 28, 2011 7:31pm
krazykiwi

@reid – story is here
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April 28, 2011 7:33pm
reid

Thanks kk. The Chinese connection is interesting, since they have been making serious moves into the South Pacific for two decades now and one of their vehicles is chequebook diplomacy via building infrastucture. Of course it could be just the PLA testing the system, it could be the Triads, it could be a combo. But interesting.

Thanks to both of you, kk and joanna.
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April 28, 2011 7:41pm
Pete George

Latest Roy Morgan poll shows nothing much has changed with the big parties, amongst the smalls MP is up and NZF down, and Act must be desperate for some sort of lift.

National 51% (unchanged)
Labour 32% (up 0.5%)
Greens 8%, (unchanged)
Maori Party 3.5% (up 2%)
New Zealand First 3% (down 2%)
ACT NZ 1% (down 1%)
United Future 0.5% (unchanged).
Progressive 0.5% (up 0.5%)
Others 0.5% (unchanged)

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2011/4661/
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April 28, 2011 7:44pm
krazykiwi

@Luc – do you own any land in NZ? If so, your ownership is illegal based on your understanding of ‘occupation’. So hand it back, or expect resistance which will be, again by your definition, perfectly legal even if it kills you.

@reid – yes… buying UN votes one micro-country at a time works well for the Chinese.
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April 28, 2011 7:48pm
Johnboy

“Ah, Johnboy, so you reserve your murderous intent just for the Urewera 18?”

No.

I have saved just a little for an insignificant tosser called Luc. 🙂
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April 28, 2011 7:51pm
joana

Reid,
There is also an article in the Sydney morning herald.
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April 28, 2011 7:54pm
Hurf Durf

You know, between Don’s dodgy hijinks, Barry’s birther bedwetting, multiple playthroughs of Portal 2 and the PSN hack, this has been a pretty fun week. And it’s not even over yet! Here’s hoping William calls off his marriage at the very last moment and elopes with the stripper he met at his stag do.
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April 28, 2011 7:57pm
Luc Hansen

That’s not what you said last night, Johnboy.

Do you want me to fetch the link for you?

Have you forgotten?

Too many drinkies?

KK – you have lost me. The UN has a list of occupations. We are not on it. The occupied Palestinian territories are. If, according to your good self, that is not an occupation, please tell me how you arrive at that conclusion.

Also, we do accord all our indigenous peoples full human and voting rights.
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April 28, 2011 8:10pm
Johnboy

Make sure you watch the wedding Hurf it could be an even better spectacle than we are all hoping for.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/royal-wedding/4936983/Kates-pre-wedding-naked-nightmares

Now that would be a first for the Abbey! 🙂
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April 28, 2011 8:12pm
reid

@reid – yes… buying UN votes one micro-country at a time works well for the Chinese.

There’s a lot more in it than that kk.

Being on the Permanent Security Council they have less worry than say, us. However you’re absolutely correct, they do it as enthusiastically as the Japanese do, for equally obscure reasons.

It’s the “what’s more” bit that I’m closely interested in.

Because this is China’s backyard and I think if it’s going to happen between the US and China it’s conceivable the dynamics will begin to build through friction here.

It’s unbelievable the US sat back since the early 90’s and just let it happen until it’s all too late. Not the first fuck-up in the CIA-State geostrategic master plan one ~~imagines~~ observes from history.
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April 28, 2011 8:17pm
Hurf Durf

William’s 29-year-old bride-to-be is said to be having nightmares about standing naked at the altar,

Nightmares? Hers alone, no doubt. (Wink wink nudge nudge)
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April 28, 2011 8:19pm
Johnboy

“Too many drinkies?”

Not at all Luc. “The AOS should have shot the lot of them”. Seems perfectly OK to me.

I ran spell check over it again. Seems fine. 🙂
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April 28, 2011 8:19pm
krazykiwi

Quite a week – Nelson, Wellington, Ohakune, Auckland, Tauranga, Hamilton .. and it’s not over yet. Kinda wish I had Winnie’s equine-smelling campaign helicopter.

@Luc – would that be the (cough) credible UN that about to welcome Syria on to its Human Rights Council?
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April 28, 2011 8:20pm
Luc Hansen

KK

Absolutely not.

It’s tough running a consensus based organisation at the best of times, and this is not one of those times, but I do think there should be certain standards that should be fulfilled by aspirants to that council.

Syria, Jordan, Egypt (still) etc, oh, and Israel, should be excluded by definition. H-u-m-a-n R-i-g-h-t-s.

Johnboy

So you want to have me killed?

Have you got a gun?

Threats to kill are an offence and I doubt it would take long for the Police to suss out who you are, if I could be bothered.
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April 28, 2011 9:12pm
krazykiwi

Calling animals ‘pets’ is insulting, academics claim

Animal lovers should stop calling their furry or feathered friends “pets” because the term is insulting, leading academics claim
:::
Phrases such as “sly as a fox, “eat like a pig” or “drunk as a skunk” are all unfair to animals, they claim.

Academics demonstrating the value of their huge, taxpayer-funded salaries? *sigh*
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April 28, 2011 9:19pm
Johnboy

“Johnboy

So you want to have me killed?

Have you got a gun?”

Flyspray should be more than sufficient for an annoying little pest like you Luc. 🙂
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April 28, 2011 9:51pm

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