General Debate 4 December 2011

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DRHILL

So tv3 had a story on last night about how you can sponser a Auckland kid for $15.00a month. The money would get paid to the school to provide things like food and raincoats.
Um….schools are there to teach, not to provide the nessecities of life.
That is the parents role. If they cannot feed or cloth them then there is something wrong.
Tthe NZ taxpayer provides the dole, working for famalies etc, we don’t need a child fund type charity coming in and telling us how to run things.
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December 4, 2011 8:16am
Manolo

Cain is out of the GOP race: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/03/cain-prepares-to-discuss-campaigns-future-after-damage-assessment/
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December 4, 2011 8:16am
Scott Chris

What Happens When Auckland’s Next Volcano Blows:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6081952/Study-predicts-6km-Auckland-ring-of-death

It’s not a question of ‘if’, it’s a question of ‘when’. Could be tomorrow, could be in 1000 years. At least we’ll be warned by a swarm of earthquakes as the magma rises.
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December 4, 2011 8:34am
Other_Andy

@Manolo
Well he had to didn’t he?
Not being a ‘Democrat’ he is guilty untill proven innocent.
After Jones, Willey, Lewinsky, Tripp, Broadrick..
Oh wait..
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December 4, 2011 8:37am
jims_whare

I guess if that happened it would make the Christchurch earthquake fairly cheap to rebuild – would either bankrupt NZ or tell everyone affected that they have to wear the loss.
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December 4, 2011 8:37am
jaba

just saw Cunliffe and Shearer on the Nation replay … PLEASE Labour people, vote for Cunners .. please
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December 4, 2011 8:40am
Yvette

The price of New Zealand units (NZUs) has crashed from $22 in May to about $11 last week, stifling interest in developing carbon offsetting initiatives here, according to carbon market participants …
The reasons for the crash appear to be the unfettered ability of New Zealand emitters to import credits of dubious quality from overseas, coupled with the recent dumping of international credits by cash-strapped European industrial and utilities companies selling down their stockpiles of carbon to realise cash as the debt crisis worsens, participants in the fledgling carbon trading market say.
Big emitters here have been able to buy the UN-backed Certified Emmissions Reductions (CERs) cheaply to surrender under the ETS, gutting the price of NZUs. …

What fucking relevance does any part of the ETS have to do with solving CO2 emissions …
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December 4, 2011 8:41am
jaba

I guess Chris Carter was right all along?
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December 4, 2011 8:47am
flipper

Steam from cooling towers is like that from a hot kettle – just steam. It is neither Carbon nor CO2.
There are also, major differences (TO SAY THE VERY LEAST) between carbon dioxide and Carbon (soot residues), but they are most often portrayed by the risible MSM as one and the same. The ETS is dead. It is only a matter of time before it is buried.
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December 4, 2011 9:08am
Falafulu Fisi

Where is Pete George? The man who believes that rights is a human construct only, therefore it has no objective foundations but it is based on the wishes of the majority or democracy as he thinks.

Islamists’ Success in Middle East

There is a danger of democracy that is not based on rights but based on the wishes of the majority as we’re now witnessing in the election results from the middle east.

C’mon Pete George, whadayreckon? Do you approve of the election outcome in the mid-east? If so, then why?
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December 4, 2011 9:24am
mavxp

Just watching Q+A now and Guyon interviewing both Davids. Cunliffe is by far the better communicator. For a leader of Labour, I think he is currently a better choice than Shearer. The question Shearers supporters needs to answer is can they turn Shearer into a clear spoken leader in 3 years?
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December 4, 2011 9:24am
tas

Yvette: source?
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December 4, 2011 9:27am
adze

I continue to shake my head at the choice of panelists on Q+A. I mean Helen Kelly? Really? Who’s next, John Minto, Michael Laws or Kyle Chapman?
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December 4, 2011 9:55am
Pete George

Falafulu Fisi – I haven’t been following democracy and elections in the Middle East, too busy following the election in New Zealand and working on democracy here. I can’t do anything about what’s happening in the Middle East.

There’s a bit of a quandary with democracy when something you don’t agree with gets popuklar support. Don’t know what that’s got to do with ‘rights’.
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December 4, 2011 9:57am
Elaycee

@adze – agree. Q+A may need to be re-branded for next year – it’s just a left wing wet dream and whinge.

Perhaps it should be called the Muppet Show (Oh, that’s already taken)…
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December 4, 2011 10:03am
Yvette

@ tas –
Carbon credits pricing crashes and burns
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6081834/Carbon-credits-pricing-crashes-and-burns
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December 4, 2011 10:05am
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…

I haven’t been following democracy and elections in the Middle East, too busy following the election in New Zealand and working on democracy here.

No, PG, I had a go at you before the election because you dismissed the notions of objective rights since you think that rights is something subjective to the wishes of the majority (democracy). I’m pro-democracy based on rights (it has to be objective) rather than subjective according to whichever the wind blows. All that arguments from me was to criticize you for thinking that you (& your United Future) have something different to offer. Your policies are nothing more than to violate the rights of citizens, period.

PG said…

Don’t know what that’s got to do with ‘rights’.

PG, Islamist countries don’t have such thing as rights? Do you agree? If you were born as a Muslim, then convert to Christianity at some stage in your adult life, then you will be prosecuted. There is one case like that in Iran at the moment. Does the guy who converted to be a christian have any rights to freedom of religion or not? Remember, that’s what the majority of that country want. They want to persecute anyone who is converting to Christianity. Do you see a problem in your logic or not?
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December 4, 2011 10:10am
Manolo

Thanks for the link, Yvette.
And yet Nick Smith and Labour lite will continue supporting the ETS tax. A scam that is costing the country dearly.
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December 4, 2011 10:23am
Viking2

Hat tip to HOME Paddock.

IN PRAISE OF CAPITALISM.

Letter of the week in The Press:

“Remember every time you enjoy a latte … you are lucky to have the benefits of capitalism,” writes The Press’s letter writer of the week.

In answer to Gareth Morgan and Susan Guthrie (“Reviving the values of an egalitarian society,” Perspective, Nov 21), I’m for business, technology and the highest wages I can generate . . .

The countries that have experienced the flow-down from the Industrial Revolution are immeasurably better off than those that haven’t. . .

Please don’t tell me that you won’t permit me to have my washing machine, my automobile, my iPhone or the wages I earn.

You can live in any way you choose (I will not interfere) and spend your money the way you choose on the priorities you value.

Remember, every time you enjoy a latte or an organic salad, you are lucky to have the benefits of capitalism at your beck and call, and it not only saves and extends your life, but enhances your life beyond measure.

I’m against your egalitarianism, your environmentalism, and every other anti-man dogma you can invent. You can keep your redistribution of rewards according to your primitive outlook. I’m for laissez-faire! – D. McFarland.

Capitalism isn’t perfect but no-one has yet come up with a sustainable alternative.

ANYONE GOT A BETTER WAY?
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December 4, 2011 10:25am
JamesS

Pretty scary stuff http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10770757

How could anybody be dumb enough to shoot a loaded gun in broad daylight near children? what is NZ coming to?
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December 4, 2011 10:27am
Other_Andy

@Falafulu Fisi

People in Islamic countries have rights a long as it complies with Shari’ah.
The core of Shari’ah is that only Allah is sovereign and that all law is Divinely mandated. No human agency may make or alter it. It requires unequal protection of the law. For example, Muslim men enjoy privileges not granted to women and non-Muslims.
Take for example the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Violence Against Women (CEDAW). This Convention has been ratified by over 90% of the United Nations member countries, including 46 out of 57 members of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC). However, these Muslim OIC countries ratified CEDAW with “reservations.”
They also have a different Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the ‘Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights’. People have “freedom and right to a dignified life in accordance with the Islamic Shari’ah”. However, this document does not guarantee freedom of religion or gender equality as that is contradictory to Shari’ah.
Muslims even have their own version of the Hippocratic Oath with a “get out clause” toward the end of the text.
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December 4, 2011 10:28am
Viking2

The Government-funded Commission for Financial Literacy and Retirement Income has fluffed its KiwiSaver fee calculations, according to scheme managers, but the commission says it is just another victim of widespread KiwiSaver fee confusion.

Three KiwiSaver providers have told Sunday Star-Times that the commission’s KiwiSaver Fee Calculator, designed to show the relative fees

KiwiSaver investors will pay over their working lifetimes, portrays their funds as more expensive than they are.

They are both a joke.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6081860/Confusion-reigns-KiwiSaver-fee-fiasco
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December 4, 2011 10:37am
Viking2

JamesS.
Who is surprised??

The woman he shot down was his former partner Matakapua Glassie – the aunt of toddler Nia Glassie, killed five years ago in a shocking case of child abuse.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6082342/Terror-in-Tokoroa-woman-shot-near-parade
Feral inbreeds proped up by the taxpayer.
And while you are busy pontificating have a read of Lindsays blog today.
http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/12/there-are-no-perfect-solutions-or-cut.html
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December 4, 2011 10:40am
kunst5

Is that the way NZmedia is listening to the NZpublic ? Zero – zip public comments released by Sunday the 4th at 10:50am

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10770446

Same old, same old won’t do it for Labour
By Paul Holmes
Published at 5:30 AM Saturday Dec 3, 2011

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10770444

Challenge to rebuild Labour
By Fran O’Sullivan
Published at 5:30 AM Saturday Dec 3, 2011
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December 4, 2011 10:51am
Other_Andy

100 Incredible Views Out Of Airplane Windows

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/100-incredible-views-out-of-airplane-windows
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December 4, 2011 11:10am
Falafulu Fisi

I came across one of Black With A Vengeance‘s cousins’ song on Youtube. Whether you like island and rap-music or not, I’m sure that BWAV’s cousins’ song will make you want to get up and dance.

Apa Eleni

Beautiful tune and good beat.
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December 4, 2011 11:12am
Griff

One less feral
problem is they breed quicker than they kill themselves off.
maybe sponsor sawnofs to help them towards self extermination.
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December 4, 2011 11:25am
Viking2

Something neat for Sunday.

http://gewius.com/?page_id=92
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December 4, 2011 11:39am
Pauleastbay

Other Andy and V2

Two thumbs up
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December 4, 2011 11:43am
backster

What Happens When Auckland’s Next Volcano Blows:

SCOTT….I don’t know, but perhaps all courtrooms should be shut down and moved to facilities outside the danger zone immediately.

ADZE:….”I continue to shake my head at the choice of panelists on Q+A. I mean Helen Kelly? Really? Who’s next, John Minto, Michael Laws or Kyle Chapman?”

Perhaps Lisa Lewis once her teeth are fixed up, her views would be more revealing and balanced.
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December 4, 2011 12:00pm
Viking2

Cunliffe: buy back any sold assets
By Hayley Hannan
Updated 10:38 AM Sunday Dec 4, 2011

David Cunliffe would look at buying back any state owned assets sold under the National Government.

lying prick. No better than Cullen. Socialist to the extreme.
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December 4, 2011 12:18pm
reid

Evidence of human intelligence:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19546_7-nuclear-weapon-screw-ups-you-wont-believe-we-survived.html
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December 4, 2011 1:28pm
BlueGriffon

What is Bernard Hickey on? The diet must be starving his brain of glucose.

House prices have increased 16% apparently. I think he is just stewing that his prediction of house prices dropping 30% hasn’t happened yet.

House prices historically rise more under Labour governments so why he is ripping National a new one, I don’t know.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10770671
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December 4, 2011 1:40pm
joe90

Falafulu Fisi, Other_Andy, Meet Egypt’s other Islamist Party

Fayoum, Egypt—The big story from Egypt’s parliamentary elections, the first round of which concluded on Tuesday, will likely be the Muslim Brotherhood’s impressive victory. But the Brotherhood’s anticipated rise from outlawed organization to parliamentary power won’t be surprising: the Brotherhood’s strong mobilizing capabilities are well known, and Hosni Mubarak often warned the West that its choice was between his autocracy or the Brotherhood’s theocracy.

The real surprise is the emergence of the Salafist Nour party, a deeply theocratic organization that bases its ideology on a literal reading of the Qur’an and Sunna and, most astoundingly, didn’t exist until a few months ago. Although Salafist political activity was, unlike the Brotherhood, completely banned under the Mubarak regime, the Nour Party is giving the Brotherhood a run for its money in some districts. Not only is the Islamist Alliance, in which the Nour Party is the major player, running 693 candidates—but those candidates’ banners and images have been ubiquitous, even in Egypt’s least religious neighborhoods. It is now expected to place second when the final round of elections is completed in January, perhaps winning as much as 30 percent of the vote.
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December 4, 2011 2:50pm
Jimbob

Bernard Hickey is a nobody pretending to have supreme knowledge of all things financial. He knows very little of what is going to happen in the financial World. He is just another financial reporter with an opinion, as his latest spiel on “nzherald” is more of the same garbage fluffed up as fact.
Just as an aside, assets are brought with after tax dollars and take decades to accumulate in value and are mostly used by their owner as a form of retirement savings. Assets at the moment all over the World seem to be slowly going down in value and will take many years to regain their footing. The other side of the coin calls for runaway inflation with the collapse of the US dollar. Time will tell what eventuates, but balanced reporting is needed.
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December 4, 2011 3:21pm
Falafulu Fisi

Jimbob said…

He is just another financial reporter with an opinion…

You’re correct there Jimbo. I’m surprised at how he’s being treated as some kind of economic/finance genius. I recalled that David Parker from Labour brought up Mr Hickey’s name during a debate in the house by quoting Mr Hickey’s opinion in his Herald article as much more informed that Bill English’s budget. Hickey suffers from having to say something original, therefore he retorts to dreaming up uninformed opinions just to fill his regular Herald columns and TV appearances.
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December 4, 2011 3:27pm
thedavincimode

reid

An outstanding find. Its a miracle that we are all still here.
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December 4, 2011 4:22pm
reid

http://www.cracked.com/article_18874_7-real-car-chases-way-crazier-than-anything-in-movies.html
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December 4, 2011 4:26pm
reid

http://www.cracked.com/article_18796_the-5-most-terrifying-jobs-in-history-war.html
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December 4, 2011 4:42pm
reid

http://www.cracked.com/article_18810_the-5-most-epic-one-man-rampages-in-history-war.html
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December 4, 2011 5:10pm
plebe

Another weekend under the rule of john key and the nats,
the slack caps lose(EXPECTED)
the black sticks lose in hockey
the NZ 7s lose
and gasp WELLINGTON the real cultual capital of NZ has a 5.7 earthquake, scares my wife and rattles
maybe someone up above is pissed of that the idiot banks is coming to WELLINGTON to dribble for act in parliment.
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December 4, 2011 5:49pm
reid

http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_283_19-famous-photographs-before-cia-edited-them_p19/#3

+ top 5 most useless plastic soldiers

http://www.cracked.com/funny-6421-plastic-army-men/
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December 4, 2011 6:29pm
Viking2

plebe (116) Says:
December 4th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

Another weekend under the rule of john key and the nats,
the slack caps lose(EXPECTED)
the black sticks lose in hockey
the NZ 7s lose
and gasp WELLINGTON the real cultual capital of NZ has a 5.7 earthquake, scares my wife and rattles
maybe someone up above is pissed of that the idiot banks is coming to WELLINGTON to dribble for act in parliment.

WELLINGTON the real cultual capital

parliment.

Clearly you missd out on the culture bit.Or was that education. either way fail. 😯
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December 4, 2011 6:47pm
Viking2

Still Wgtn has something going for it. Was looking at some of its more interesting and longterm inhabitants today.
Friends of johnboys out at Somes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Eg9qVkQgHrE
http://gewius.com/?page_id=136
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December 4, 2011 6:49pm
Viking2

Think we’ve got political problems. What about this wanker.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/kevin-rudd-boasts-of-record-in-job-application/story-fnba0rxe-1226213475235

Kevin Rudd boasts of record in ‘job application’

by: Ben Packham
From: The Australian
December 04, 2011 4:58PM

Kevin Rudd

Kevin Rudd adresses the Labor party conference in Sydney, talking up his own achievements as Foreign Minister. Picture: Renee Nowytarger Source: The Australian

KEVIN Rudd has again stoked Labor leadership speculation, talking up his own achievements as prime minister and in foreign affairs at today’s ALP conference.

In a spirited presentation, Mr Rudd submitted his “report card” to delegates and took on Tony Abbott directly, dismissing him as “captain negative”.

“Mr Abbott has neither the experience nor the temperament to ever be prime minister,” he said.

With Rudd supporters talking about a possible challenge to Julia Gillard in the new year, the speech was seen by some delegates as a job application.

But amid talk of a pre-budget leadership showdown, one Labor source told The Australian Online that support for Mr Rudd in the caucus had gone backwards.

The now-Foreign Minister could muster, at best, just 17 votes in a leadership ballot, the source said.
Free trial

“Frankly, people in this party don’t like grandstanding,” the ALP conference delegate said.
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December 4, 2011 7:06pm
Viking2

Aussie Labour just about as stuffed as NZ Labour.

Faceless men have prevailed on Labor Party reforms, claim opponents
LABOR’S factional warlords are fighting claims they have refused to relinquish power at the party’s key decision-making forums, after key reforms were put on the backburner.

Amid warnings the party faced a battle for its very survival, the ALP national conference yesterday failed to agree on a final model to boost rank and file representation, instead hiving off the decision to a committee.

Labor Renewal convenor Darcy Byrne said party powerbrokers had prevailed, preventing ordinary party members from having their say in the party’s future direction.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/faceless-men-prevail-on-labor-party-reforms-claim-opponents/story-fnba0rxe-1226213339419
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December 4, 2011 7:36pm
nasska

Not long ago and far away, Santa was getting ready for his annual trip…but there were problems everywhere. Four of his elves got sick, and the trainee elves did not produce the toys as fast as the regular ones so
Santa was beginning to feel the pressure of being behind schedule. Then Mrs. Claus told Santa that her mom was coming to visit. This stressed Santa even more. When he went to harness the reindeer, he found that three of them were about to give birth and two had jumped the fence and were out, heaven knows where. More Stress.
Then when he began to load the sleigh one of the boards cracked and the toy bag fell to the ground and scattered the toys. So frustrated, Santa went into the house for a cup of coffee and a shot of whiskey.
When he went to the cupboard, he found the elves had hid the liquor and there was nothing to drink. In his frustration, he dropped the coffee pot and it broke into hundreds of little pieces all over the kitchen floor.
He went to get the broom and found that mice had eaten the straw it was made from.
Just then the doorbell rang and Santa cussed on his way to the door. He opened the door and there was a little fairy with a great big Christmas tree.
The fairy said: “Where would you like to put this tree Santa?”
And that my friends, is how the little fairy came to be on top of the Christmas tree.
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December 4, 2011 7:40pm
reid

Four of his elves got sick, and the trainee elves did not produce the toys as fast as the regular ones so
Santa was beginning to feel the pressure of being behind schedule.

Santa obviously hasn’t heard about Lean Manufacturing nasska.

Silly ole Santa.
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December 4, 2011 8:24pm
plebe

Clearly you missd out on the culture bit.Or was that education. either way fail.
you are such a nice pleasant happy,excepting educated polite,rightwing poster,Viking2, Mr Farrar must be stoked to have you on his blog, he truly must.
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December 4, 2011 8:30pm
Viking2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0qKIFJWGXQ&feature=player_embedded
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December 4, 2011 8:42pm
Viking2

plebe (117) Says:
December 4th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

Clearly you missd out on the culture bit.Or was that education. either way fail.
you are such a nice pleasant happy,excepting educated polite,rightwing poster,Viking2, Mr Farrar must be stoked to have you on his blog, he truly must.

You come on here whinging and making rude remarks and bagging DPF’s friends and you expect nice.
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December 4, 2011 8:46pm
nasska

V2

They’re getting serious about getting the containers off the ‘Rena’. This the new crane barge arriving in the POP tomorrow.
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1291140#
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December 4, 2011 8:52pm
nasska

reid

Blame it on youth rates…I don’t think Santa’s workforce has been unionised yet.
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December 4, 2011 8:58pm
Other_Andy

Egypt Brotherhood won’t force Islamic view

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/egypt-brotherhood-wont-force-islamic-view-20111204-1odah.html

And I have it from ‘reliable sources’ that the Muslim Brotherhood also
1.Wants friendly relations with Israel.
2.Will protect freedom of religion.
3.Will give women the same rights as men.
4.Won’t support Hamas terrorist actions.
5.Will be committed to democracy after the new government has been sworn in.
And, most importantly….
Will never tell porkies!
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December 4, 2011 9:20pm
reid

He’s probably carrying too much inventory as well nasska. All those elves working all year. Warehouse costs must be huge down there.

Let’s hope the banksters don’t force Santa into liquidation. That would be very sad.
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December 4, 2011 9:21pm
Other_Andy

@nasska

Here is a cool site.
You can track the Smit Borneo live on:

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?mmsi=325163000&centerx=176.3013&centery=-36.71712&zoom=10&type_color=9#

It is currently near Whitianga.
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December 4, 2011 9:46pm
nasska

Other_Andy

Thanks for the link.

reid

As I read the other day:

…”Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world.”…..
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December 4, 2011 9:56pm
slijmbal

The one benefit to Labour about all this is that Labour & its policies are being pushed with lots of left wing commentators flying their anti-labour and anti-Key kites with no counter arguments.
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December 4, 2011 11:25pm
Manolo

How stupid can she be? http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/12/04/180800.html
No comparison with the dictatorships and brutal regimes that surround the Jewish State.
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December 5, 2011 7:05am

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