General Debate 5 May 2012

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Yvette

It was suggested earlier that proof of Banks not knowing of the Sky City donation lay in the fact it was accepted, which it would not have been had Banks been aware of its source, given his adamant views, as a conservative Christian, on gambling and considering his railing in Parliament against the evils of casinos. For himself to take money sucked from the small people of society would surely be totally unacceptable .

However with all these donations, and now the latest one to be questioned – that for exactly $15,690 for radio advertising and requiring knowledge of what that cost was – do these donations not have names on cheques or reference if transferred electronically. How do those who receive these donations NOT know where they come from?

And
When Mr Banks flew to Wellington on Tuesday to attend Parliament, it was with one opponent, NZ First leader Winston Peters, seated at his side.
On the return trip last night, Mr Banks found himself confronted by not one foe – but two. His seat was directly across the aisle from Mr Mallard, and Mr Peters was sitting in the row behind.

I thought Air New Zealand had a strict policy about the seating of children travelling alone.
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May 5, 2012 8:01am
SalParadise

Fingers crossed Peter Dunne is working on a trade-off for his vote on assest sales:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10803512
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May 5, 2012 8:08am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2012/why-conservatives-believe-in-anti-gay-pseudo-science/

“…The anti-gay-rights movement’s claims about homosexuality are based on the worst kind of junk “science.”..”

(cont..)

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 8:14am
Keeping Stock

Who is in charge of the Policy Department of the Labour Caucus? Was Trevor Mallard right on Tuesday, or was David Shearer right yesterday? And what does David Cunliffe make of Shearer’s Cullen Fund u-turn?

So many questions; so few answers, and too many mixed messages. Labour really is a danger to itself:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/mixed-messages.html
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May 5, 2012 8:19am
Pete George

Richard Prosser (NZ First list MP) on MP behaviour and ethics:

Whilst there are, by definition and indeed of necessity, always going to be differences of opinion and philosophy in politics, it behoves us as Parliamentarians to play the ball and not the man (or woman), and to address such differences, and attempt to influence policy, through reasoned debate and by keeping an open mind, and above all by having regard to the wishes of the voting public and the best interests of the nation.

While we may not agree with the views or positions of any particular Member or Party, it has to be remembered that most MPs enter Parliament with genuinely held beliefs and with honourable intentions, and we owe it to the future of our Parliamentary democracy to respect that fact.

Beyond holding Members and Parties to account as regards their current and intended actions, and their present and past indications of character, we have a duty to be fair in our dealings, and to conduct our affairs in the dignified manner which the public has a right to expect.

Sounds good to me.
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May 5, 2012 8:20am
bhudson

How do those who receive these donations NOT know where they come from?

Does it not occur that the person who solicited or advised [the donors] on the donations – for example, the exact amount for radio advertising as you note – could have been Banks’s campaign manager or fundraiser? The donation only must be anonymous to the candidate.

Edit: Therefore there exists a good reason not to disclose the details to the candidate. And for the candidate not to ask
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May 5, 2012 8:23am
Other_Andy

Read this story several times now.
Two German tourists in a car fail to give way on a roundabout and cause an accident.
Their car blocks the road and traffic banks up.
Although it is obviously their fault they refuse to move their car so others can pass.
So they are causing an accident, holding up traffic unnecessary and being pedantic little twits.
Some of the locals are, justifiably, getting a bit angry.

They are now calling the locals racists.
Apparently German is now a race….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6864596/Ugly-encounter-with-aggression-racism-abuse

Does it surprise me that one of the Germans is a sociologist?
She says: “I felt I never want to come back to NZ. It’s very nice nature but we didn’t know people were racist.”
Well, we won’t say auf Wiedersehen then.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Pleaaaase don’t come back.
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May 5, 2012 8:27am
krazykiwi

Take a look at 12 of the worlds craziest urinals. Any favourites?
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May 5, 2012 8:28am
Falafulu Fisi

Davinci, you asked yesterday why I’m anti-big-banger theory and I said that I’m not anti-big-banger. In fact what I’m anti about or against is the creationist idea of the big bang theory (ie, non-causality nature of the big bang), where the universe just exploded into existence from nothing. Einstein himself thought the universe was static after his General Relativity theory was published in 1916 and finally confirmed in 1919 eclipse, but then Hubble showed otherwise in the 1920s that the universe is expanding (via Doppler red-shift). Now, this is one of the claimed evidence of the expanding universe.

Here is an article from proponents of Plasma theory which says that there’s other explanation for the red-shift, which is not due to expanding universe.

Big Bang Cosmology Meets an Astronomical Death

You can follow up with references cited in the article above (Google because some a freely available) to see the inconsistency of thinking that the red shift we see, is a confirmation of expanding universe.

There’s a youtube video on Plasma theory which interviewed proponents of this theory and some of those physicists had been censored (academic institutions & peer review publications) for daring to question the validity of the big bang theory, I’ll try to find that on youtube and then posted it here later.

Whether big bang took place, then it must have been causal and I support that idea (causality rules) , however on the other hand, if it took place but had no attributable cause/s (as it is the currently accepted mainstream idea), then it is nothing more than a creationist idea, no difference to God creationist. I’m against creationist big bang, but I’m not against a causal theory of the big bang. These are 2 different arguments. I stated yesterday that String theorists had proposed that the big bang had a cause. Big bang was a result of collisions of 2 branes. So, my stance is, I’m more open to Stringists & Plasma proponents point of view than the current mainstream scientific dogma.
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May 5, 2012 8:31am
SalParadise

Other Andy, I also noticed that rather shocking headline. Although I see Stuff has now downgraded it to “German Tourist’s ugly encounter”.

In other news how about those Blues. My boys certainly turned them over. Pat Lam to resign before the end of the weekend?
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May 5, 2012 8:37am
joana

PG
I heard Richard Prosser speak recently. He is really interesting and informative. I spoke with him afterwards. He seeks to work cooperatively with other MPs and parties and takes his work very seriously. He is not interested as he says in the quote you give , in wasting time attacking people. This behaviour is not his style. Here’s hoping he can keep to his own ways and not be influenced by some of the other MPs who it would appear have been there too long.
Do you ever watch parliamentary TV? It is interesting to see how various people conduct themselves , who are by far the better speakers etc.
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May 5, 2012 8:55am
Pete George

Joana – Richard Prosser has had a bit of coverage for having some “interesting” views, but he should be able to express what he wants.

I thought what he said here was thoughtful and sensible. If this approach to being an MP is encouraged then we might see more of it, a more positive co-operative approach.

I watch a little bit of parliamentary TV. On Wednesday night it was disgraceful – and I should say that the worst of the noise and interjections come from the Labour side. Coupled with Mallard’s continued attempts to initiate dirt – he’s having another try against Banks now, after his last one fizzled when he was shown to be dumb about room rates I think Labour behaviour is currently totally undisciplined and disgraceful at times.

If Richard Prosser works as an MP as he suggests in his email I’d much rather have more like him and none of the Labour Mallardy.
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May 5, 2012 9:04am
Scott Chris

it behoves us as Parliamentarians to play the ball and not the man (or woman), and to address such differences, and attempt to influence policy, through reasoned debate and by keeping an open mind

Like the drinking culture, the way in which parliamentarians interact is a function of an established ingrained culture combined with our seemingly innate fractious and insecure human nature.

The only way to change that is for a fractious and insecure electorate to recognize that quality within themselves and only vote for emotionally secure candidates.
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May 5, 2012 9:07am
East Wellington Superhero

@ Philu

I’m not an expert but from memory didn’t the Dunedin longitudinal study show that those with a mother and father had (on averages) better social outcomes. I can’t find the study online, and frankly I have better things to do on this sunny morning. Yes, some hetero parents are bloody hopeless/abusive, but that’s using exceptions to prove a rule. And yes, I’m sure some homo parents would do an adequate job. But again, that’s using exceptions to prove a rule. My experience with kids and teens is that there’s certain things they need from mum and certain things they need from dad. My experience with GBLT people (and of course many heteros) is that they want children to fit their lifestyle, rather than living their life for their children.

With regard to the APA. They had a cultural take-over by the gay lobby a number of years back. Further to that there are many professional who are NOT part of the APA.

With regard to the weak article about conservatives believing pseudoscience. Well, frankly it was weak. Just another rant against the Christian Right.

“A recent study, for instance, found that “individuals with marked involuntary physiological responses to disgusting images, such as of a man eating a large mouthful of writhing worms, are more likely to self-identify as conservative and, especially, to oppose gay marriage than are individuals with more muted physiological responses to the same images.” In other words, there’s now data to back up what we’ve always kind of known: The average conservative, much more than the average liberal, is having visceral feelings of disgust towards same-sex marriage”

WTF? Even if this experiment is legit, so what? So from this we conclude that gay marriage is normal? FFS. What tripe.

I’m off to enjoy the sun.
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May 5, 2012 9:09am
Scott Chris

edit: Not to mention the adversarial system itself which is a natural byproduct of democracy.
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May 5, 2012 9:11am
All_on_Red

Game on

The following is the text of a letter from Mitt Romney to Barack Obama. To me it is pitch perfect and sounds the theme for the next six months.

Dear Mr. President,

Welcome to Ohio. I have a simple question for you: Where are the jobs?

As we enter the fourth year of your term, unemployment is over 8 percent and has been for your entire term. Nearly 23 million men and women are unemployed, underemployed or are no longer even looking for work. In the face of such challenges, many Americans have simply given up hope.

I recognize, of course, as do all Americans, that you inherited an economic crisis. But you’ve now had three years to turn things around. The record of those three years is clear. Your policies have failed, not only in Ohio, but across the nation.

The results are a continuing tragedy for millions upon millions of people. Everywhere I go, I meet Americans who are tired of being tired, and many of those who are fortunate enough to have a job are working harder for less. This is not the way it is supposed to be in America. This is not the way it needs to be.

Mr. President, forgive me for being blunt, but when it comes to economic affairs, you’re out of your depth. Unlike you, I am not a career politician. Unlike you, I’ve spent more than two decades working in the private sector, starting new businesses and turning around failing ones. Undoing the damage you’ve done will be a daunting challenge. But I’ve learned a thing or two about how government policies can kill private investment and stifle job creation and I have a plan to get government out of the way.

Mr. President, while campaigning for the presidency nearly four years ago, you declared that you were “absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

Mr. President, the American people are tired of the grandiose promises. And they are even more tired of the paltry results.

Mr. President, your promises now ring hollow. If you have brought new ideas to Ohio for creating jobs, why have you waited three years to unveil them? Have you suddenly had a revelation, or is it because 2012 is an election year? Whatever the case, what you are offering Ohio now is too little, too late.

What Ohio needs — what the country needs — is not four more years of economic mismanagement and failed leadership. It needs a fundamental change in direction that, by returning the country to the principles of limited government and free enterprise, would unleash the potential of the American people.

I have a path forward to accomplish that. I have spent much of my life in business, turning around troubled enterprises. I can do the same for the most troubled of all enterprises: our federal government.

Our taxes are too high, and our government is too big. I will cut individual tax rates by 20 percent across the board to jump-start job creation, grow the economy and help Americans keep more of their hard-earned dollars. I will reform a corporate tax system that drives American jobs overseas. I will slash the needless regulations that crimp our energy supply and inhibit so many different kinds of businesses. In the year I was born, unemployment was 3.9 percent. When I turned 21, it was 3.6 percent. We can do so much better than we have been doing.

But we need proper leadership.

So once again, Mr. President, welcome to Ohio, and welcome to the campaign. We need a great debate about how best to get our country working again. We can’t afford four more years of failure. I believe in unleashing America’s potential. That is what my own campaign for the presidency is all about.

Sincerely,

Mitt Romney

[Via Powerline]
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May 5, 2012 9:13am
wat dabney

“The climate-sceptical Heartland Institute has driven environmentalists mental this morning by unveiling an advertising campaign which, in the words of the Washington Post, is “in incredibly poor taste”. The ads, promoting an upcoming Heartland conference, show some of the crazier people who buy into climate-change alarmism – such as the Unabomber, Charles Manson and Osama bin Laden – alongside the words, “He still believes in global warming. Do you?”

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100156243/environmentalists-compared-their-opponents-to-mass-murderers-long-before-the-heartland-institute/

Fantastic.

Speaking of crazy Green policies, I’m sure this guy would vote Green if he were a Kiwi:

“Predatory sex attacker handed his FIFTH life sentence for a string of horrific rapes could be freed in just over FOUR years”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139595/Does-life-mean-life-Predatory-sex-attacker-handed-FIFTH-life-sentence-string-horrific-rapes-freed-just-FOUR-years.html
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May 5, 2012 9:31am
Pete George

a function of an established ingrained culture combined with our seemingly innate fractious and insecure human nature.

That culture and nature is only in some people – it just happens that the fractious and insecure MPs get a lot more than their share of attention.

What we the nonfractious and secure voters should be doing is speaking up strongly, promoting and demanding better MP behaviour, and stand up to the disrespectful and the muckrakers. They have been getting away with it because we let them get away with it, they see our silence as tacit approval.
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May 5, 2012 9:35am
Manolo

Nobody could be surprised by the lunacy and extremism of Green policies. Par for the course for the watermelons.
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May 5, 2012 9:39am
thedavincimode

Manolo! 🙂

How you doin?

Fala

Thanks for that. Looks like it will need a large drink and an icepack for my head.
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May 5, 2012 9:47am
Scott Chris

The ads, promoting an upcoming Heartland conference, show some of the crazier people who buy into climate-change alarmism – such as the Unabomber, Charles Manson and Osama bin Laden – alongside the words, “He still believes in global warming. Do you?”

I can see the funny side to that in spite of my subscription to the cult of warmism.

On the flip side, I guess prominent AGW skeptics Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann and Donald Trump are also noteworthy for their, shall we say, alternative take on reality.
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May 5, 2012 10:18am
Scott Chris

That culture and nature is only in some people

Surely you’re not inferring that Peter Dunne is above all that pettiness? He mayn’t be the vulgarian Peters is, but Dunne isn’t shy of slipping in the occasional ad hom stiletto.
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May 5, 2012 10:27am
hj

How fitting for Auckland that the Chows intend to build a 15 story brothel down town. They should name it after Helen Clark as it was her governments big idea to bring them in.
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May 5, 2012 10:46am
questions

“East Wellington Superhero

My experience with GBLT people (and of course many heteros) is that they want children to fit their lifestyle, rather than living their life for their children.”

This is demonstrably wrong, historically 90% of parents forced their own heterosexuality upon their children, do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
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May 5, 2012 10:54am
Spam

I can see the funny side to that in spite of my subscription to the cult of warmism.

On the flip side, I guess prominent AGW skeptics Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann and Donald Trump are also noteworthy for their, shall we say, alternative take on reality.

They’re as bad as each other….

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2011/07/25/277564/norway-terrorist-is-a-global-warming-denier/?mobile=nc
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May 5, 2012 11:14am
krazykiwi

historically 90% of parents forced their own heterosexuality upon their children, do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?

Gosh, you must be right. There are 7.038 billion of us, which is clear evidence of heterosexuals forcing their sexuality upon their children. Nature is irrelevant.
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May 5, 2012 11:19am
Fletch

With regard to the APA. They had a cultural take-over by the gay lobby a number of years back. Further to that there are many professional who are NOT part of the APA.

Yep, the APA was bullied into taking homosexuality of it’s List of Disorders by gay activists in 1974. It had nothing to do with any new medical evidence. Just under a 3rd of APA members voted to have it removed –

On April 9, 1974, results of the vote were announced. Only 10,555 of the 17,905 APA members had voted in the election. The results were as follows,

Total APA members eligible to vote: 17,905
Number of APA members that actually voted: 10,555
Number of members that “Abstained”: 367
Number of “ No” votes-votes to keep “homosexuality” in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810
Number of “Yes” votes-votes to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854

It should be noted that the number of “Yes” (5,854) made up only 32.7 percent of the total membership of the APA. Only slightly less than one-third of the APA’s membership approved the change.

MORE – http://bit.ly/IRw0B3

Above link is a good read, to see how the APA was hectored, badgered, and intimidated by gay activists.

But the vast majority was not behind the change. Four years later, the Medical Journal Aspects of Human Sexuality reported a survey showing “69 percent of psychiatrists disagreed with the vote and still considered homosexuality a disorder.”
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May 5, 2012 11:25am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Boris Johnson does it again. What a legend. Now that’s what I call winning. Even David Cameron couldn’t sink his chances.
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May 5, 2012 11:44am
questions

“Fletch (2,655) Says:

Just under a 3rd of APA members voted to have it removed –

It should be noted that the number of “Yes” (5,854) made up only 32.7 percent of the total membership of the APA. Only slightly less than one-third of the APA’s membership approved the change.”

In light of this application of statistics, would you like to back down on your claim that 80% of New Zealander’s are against the anti smacking bill?
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May 5, 2012 12:15pm
bereal

The Blues may have lost again last night but nobody could deny that they
won the battle of the hairdos. (and that’s very important to them)

Led by Nonu and supported by Weepu, Ranger, Maliau and Moli the boys looked
lovely. No one can take that away from them. ( i can’t recall the name of the bloke with the double
pig tail down to his arsehole, but doesn’t he look like a real sweetie)

Just because they turned out looking like a bunch of pansy sooks, well, thats not the reason
they can’t win a game is it ? Yes it is.

If Pat Lam has any desire to improve this woefull lineup he will take the whole squad
down to the barbers shop this week and make those poofters get a proper haircut.
Try and get them to at least look like professionals, not like a bunch of pansy girls.

Notice there was not a single Hurricanes player last night that turned out looking like a faggot.

Ant Strachan pointed out last week that appearences count for plenty.

If the Blues got decent haircuts then all the time they spend doing their hair
could be spent training. Then they might have some chance at least.

No haircuts, they will be thrashed again next week.
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May 5, 2012 12:15pm
hj

NZ Institute examining links between environment and economy (Wat might want to have a word with someone).

GLOBAL CONSEQUENCES
1. Substantial climate change is now inevitable; issue is how much and
how soon
2. Scarcities and rising costs of food, water, energy, minerals, land
3. Other‏environment‏issues;‏biological‏“mixing”,‏chemical‏
accumulations, ecosystem services failure
4. Green growth, supply chain security, risk, regulation on
management agenda
5. Migrations, fences and walls, failed states (and piracy is back!)
6. Potential for conflict; but it must be contained
7. Rich will be further separated and protected from the poor
8. Technology will continue to develop, but not be available to all
9. Hard to see how population will get to 9 billion
10.Environment will continue to deteriorate as people exploit it to
subsist; land degradation, depletions and extinctions, etc.
Already happening!

http://www.nzinstitute.org/Images/uploads/MAF_Leadership_Programme_%5Bwebsite_version%5D.pdf
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May 5, 2012 12:30pm
Fletch

In light of this application of statistics, would you like to back down on your claim that 80% of New Zealander’s are against the anti smacking bill?

Not at all.
Not when poll after poll, after poll, after poll from 2005 – 2009, consistently showed 80% of NZers against the bill/law.

http://www.voteno.org.nz/polls.htm
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May 5, 2012 12:31pm
Colville

bereal, next week the Blues play the Lions so fair chance they will win being at home and the dont leak points as badly.

The Blues under Lam do get the prize for the worst New Zealand team to ever take the park in Super rugby.

Last night probably sealed the fate of Wepu and Nonu for the Ireland tour. Good job too.
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May 5, 2012 12:32pm
hj

PARADIGM CONFLICT
Economic – 20th Century thinking

‏Economy is small relative to environment
‏With limited exceptions, resources can
be taken from the environment and
wastes can be released to the
environment without adverse
consequences

‏Environmental issues resolved by
substitutes, technologies and market
instruments
‏The future will be an extension of the
past

‏Societal objective should be to maximise
GDP

Environmental – 21st Century thinking
===================
‏Economy is large relative to environment
‏Resource and waste sink constraints,
and accumulated environmental damage
threaten output growth and human
well-being

‏Environmental threats increasing and
responses are insufficient
‏
‏The future will be different from the past
‏Societal objective should be to avoid risk
35
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May 5, 2012 12:36pm
Paulus

Manolo

Remember the slogan for 2014

“Vote Labour Get Green”
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May 5, 2012 12:36pm
Other_Andy

@hj

Horse manure!

This doom scenario of growth and the unsustainability of unlimited growth has been around for as long as humans have been around.
People fall into the trap time and time again.

Paul R. Ehrlich fell into that trap when he wrote the ‘The Population Bomb’ in 1968.
Certain things are unsustainable if the circumstances don’t change and we keep on doing things the same way we’ve always been doing them without taking into account human ingenuity and the advances of technology.

Read The Great Horse-Manure Crisis of 1894

The larger and richer that cities became, the more horses they needed to function. The more horses, the more manure. Writing in the Times of London in 1894, one writer estimated that in 50 years every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure. Moreover, all these horses had to be stabled, which used up ever-larger areas of increasingly valuable land. And as the number of horses grew, ever-more land had to be devoted to producing hay to feed them (rather than producing food for people), and this had to be brought into cities and distributed—by horse-drawn vehicles. It seemed that urban civilization was doomed.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/our-economic-past-the-great-horse-manure-crisis-of-1894/
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May 5, 2012 12:50pm
Harriet

If kiwis don’t physicly discipline their children for throwing a ‘temper tantrum’ in say a supermarket isle, then their children will probaly grow into adults who throw temper tantrums in front of the police, the public and the media, simply to seek attention, and the evidence: The promoter of the ‘anti smacking’ bill is known for doing this herself – regulary.

Smacking children is all good and fine, however, one should also install a vocabulary into children so as they can express themselves and get a message across without the need to yell, scream and swear.The promoter is known for this too.

Protesting can only be taken seriously if done in a civil manner as we don’t live in a police state, where of course if we did, the ‘uncivil’ protest is then called for.
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May 5, 2012 1:05pm
Scott Chris

This doom scenario of growth and the unsustainability of unlimited growth

Okay, how about this scenario. Product manufacture becomes so efficient through robot and replicator technology that scarcity disappears.

What happens to growth then?
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May 5, 2012 1:07pm
Harriet

hj

“…9. Hard to see how population will get to 9 billion…’

Pretty much answers the other questions then…. doesn’t it ?
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May 5, 2012 1:25pm
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2012/5-special-interest-groups-that-help-keep-marijuana-illegal/

“..There are entrenched interest groups that are spending large sums of money to keep our broken drug laws on the books…”

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 1:27pm
Johnboy

There are actually 6 not 5 Magpie.

Employers are no. 6.

We don’t want useless, stoned losers breaking our machinery and upping our ACC levies!

Possibly why you have reached your middle age and never had a job yet! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 1:32pm
Keeping Stock

@ Johnboy; Phil is past middle age, and is probably hoping to go straight from the DPB to National Superannuation, therefore passing Go, and picking up his weekly cheque from the long-suffering taxpayer.
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May 5, 2012 1:37pm
Harriet

“…There are actually 6 not 5 Magpie…’

Make it 7 – rugby unions.

8. Religions.
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May 5, 2012 1:38pm
graham

Thread now phucked.

Because philu will now feel bound to reply and point out that he was a radio DJ or something years ago. And now, that raising his son is THE most important job anybody can do. (Never mind that many solo parents do a great job of raising their children AND holding down a full-time job. Or if he really cared about the kid, he would have made more of an effort to stay with ‘the nipper’s’ mother so he wasn’t bringing him up in a broken home).

And that browsing the Internet for hours on end, then doing a copy-n-paste on the stuff you find interesting (on the theory that (a) everybody else will also find it interesting, and (b) we’re all to stupid to find these pearls of wisdom for ourselves) somehow constitutes ‘a job’.
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May 5, 2012 1:42pm
Johnboy

As long as he got the “Get out of Jail” card KS for his next offence.

Cheaper to pay him the bloody dole than accommodate the useless bludger at $2000/week! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 1:43pm
Harriet

graham

“…somehow constitutes ‘a job’. ‘

and an ‘education’.
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May 5, 2012 1:46pm
joana

PG
Yes Wed night was a shocker…some of it may have been warranted but it went way beyond funny..the least funny part was that we are all paying for it. When R Prosser was saying how he and other NZFirst MPs act in parliament , he specifically said they did not want to act like one particular labour MP..It wasn’t Mallard..but you can probably guess who!! Their policy is to make suggestions re govt bills at the same time as recognizing those bills will all be passed and as he said , keep to the topic rather than make personal attacks. Even Winston seems to have changed.
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May 5, 2012 1:50pm
Johnboy

Next time you’re in Wainui graham drop into Johnboys and I’ll give you a go with the .17 HMR.

There’s a pesky magpie on the bottom paddock that reckons he’s out of range! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 1:50pm
Harriet

“….In 1999 Lionel Tiger coined the word “bureaugamy” to refer to the relationship between officially impoverished mothers of illegitimate children and the government. “The Life of Julia” is an insidious attack on the institution of the family, an endorsement of bureaugamy even for middle-class women….”

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

Have a read of this….’Julia’ goes from 3-73 on welfare in the US and simply ‘chooses’ to have a baby along the way – it’s an Obama ad about enjoying the benefits of various Obama-backed welfare-state programs.

They’re broke for sure now.
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May 5, 2012 2:14pm
Harriet

Here’s more….

Daniel Harsanyi:

Who the hell is “Julia,” and why am I paying for her whole life?

Labour NZ is gone now too !

Mark Steyn:

In fact, she can’t be anything without massive assistance from Barack every step of the way, from his “Head Start” program at age 3 through to his Social Security benefits at the age of 67. Everything good in her life she owes to him. When she writes her memoir, it will be thanks to a subvention from the Federal Publishing Assistance Program for Chronically Dependent Women but you’ll love it: Sweet Dreams From My Sugar Daddy… She’s not competent to do a single thing for herself – and, from Barack’s point of view, that’s exactly what he’s looking for in a woman, if only for a one-night stand on a Tuesday in early November…

The whole left is gone !

The conservatives should bring Steyn out to NZ.
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May 5, 2012 2:22pm
philu

steyn is such an appropriate name..

..as accurate as john-yob…

(how many times is that now you have threatened to shoot/physically harm me..there..john-yob..?..

..you shouldn’t be allowed a gun licence..

..and the alcohol..!

..if you so casually make threats like that..

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 3:02pm
philu

“..Make it 7 – rugby unions…”

would the fact they are active pushers of the big killer..alcohol..

..would that colour their opinion at all..?

..d’yareckon..?

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 3:12pm
philu

re those opposing legal/taxed-pot….

“…4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so American don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products.

Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big PhRMA” –

– because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”

(not to mention seriously addictive pills…)

..phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 3:17pm
philu

“..We don’t want useless, stoned losers..”

there speaks the armed-sot…john-yob..

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 3:20pm
Johnboy

When did you start closely identifying yourself with a scavenging pest like a magpie Phil?

I hope your WINZ case worker and/or taxpayer provided shrink were prominent in your decision.

I’d be really pissed off if it was us (all your buddies at KB) that, for free, made you realise your true worth to society and meantime we have all been funding the system to tell you the same! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 3:26pm
Johnboy

Meanwhile. Just so you can all appreciate tonight’s games.

Rugby. A rational explanation of the modern game.

It is largely unknown to players and followers of the modern game that rugby started off purely as a contest for forwards in opposition, in line-outs, scrums, rucks and mauls. This pitted eight men of statuesque physique, supreme fitness and superior intelligence in packs against one another. In those days, the winner was the pack that won the most set pieces. The debasement of the game began when backs were introduced. This occurred because there was a major problem about where to locate the next scrum or line-out. Selecting positions on the ground for these had become a constant source of friction and even violence.

The problem was resolved by employing forward rejects, men of small stature and limited intelligence, to run aimlessly around within the field of play. Following a set piece, the ball would be thrown to one of them, who would establish the next location either by dropping it or by throwing it to another reject for dropping. Very occasionally a third reject would receive the ball before it would be dropped, whilst crowds of spectators would wildly cheer on these rare occasions. Initially these additional players were entirely disorganised, but with the passing of time they adopted set positions.

For instance, take the half-back. He was usually one of the smallest and least intelligent of the backs whose role was simply to accept the ball from a forward and to pass it on to one of the other rejects who would drop it, providing the new location for the forwards to compete. He could easily (given his general size) have been called a quarter-forward or a ball-monkey but then tolerance and compassion are the keys to forward play and the present euphemism was adopted.

The five-eighth plays next to the half-back and his role is essentially the same except that when pressured, he usually panics and kicks the ball. Normally he is somewhat taller and slightly better built than the half-back and hence his name. One-eighth less and he would have been a half-back and three-eighths more and he may well have qualified as a forward.

The centres were opportunists who had no real expertise but wanted to share in the glamour associated with forward packs.
After repeated supplication to the forwards for a role in the game they would be told to get out in the middle of the field and wait for instructions. Thus when asked where they played, they would reply “In the centre”. They remain to this day, parasites and scroungers who mostly work as lawyers J, real estate agents or used car dealers.

You may ask, why wingers? The answer is simple. Because they were players who had very little ability , they were the lowest in the back line pecking order, they were placed as far away from the ball as possible. Consequently, and because the inside backs were so diligent in their assigned role of dropping the ball whenever they received it, the winger’s main contribution to the game was not to get involved. Their instructions were to run away as fast as possible whenever trouble appeared and to avoid tackles at all costs.
The fact that the game was organised so that the wingers didn’t get to touch the ball led to an incessant flow of complaints from them and eventually the apt description “whingers” was applied. Even if the “h” dropped off over the years, the whinging itself unfortunately has not.

Lastly the full-back. This was the position given to the worst handler, the person least able to accept or pass the ball, someone who was always in the way. The name arose because the forwards would understandably become infuriated by the poor play invariably demonstrated by that person and call out “send that fool back”. He would then be relegated well out of everyone’s way at the rear of the field. So there you have it.

Lets return to the glory days of a contest between two packs of eight men of statuesque physique, supreme fitness and superior intelligence. The rest can go off to where they will be happier—–playing Soccer!
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May 5, 2012 3:30pm
Scott Chris

This may well have been thoroughly chewed over but has everyone listened to this Radio Live interview with John Banks in which he denies having had a sexual relationship with Dotcom!

Very, very strange. Maybe he’s faking dementia in a last ditch attempt to hold on to power.

Or maybe it’s real.
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May 5, 2012 3:30pm
philu

y’know..john-yob..it’s kinda sad how an old fella like you still drinks like a loose 26 yr old..(and boasts about it..?..(!)..)

..you just never grew up..?

..or are you in the grip of an addiction..?

.do ya usually have a hair of the dog to kill the hangovers..?

..and of course you drink/get drunk every day..eh..?

..you do know what all that tells you..eh..?

..get thee to a.a..

..eh..?

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 3:33pm
Colville

Johnboy, last pesky magpie that I ‘shot” was with a mates 300 win mag tactical. Magpie didnt actually get hit but died from fright!
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May 5, 2012 3:34pm
philu

“..This pitted eight men of statuesque physique..”

that’s so gay..!

(in the meaning before the current one..)

..but hey..!

..whatever..!

..eh..?

(btw..it is considered plagiarism to claim others’ writings as yr own..eh..?

..let speechmarks be yr friend..)

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 3:38pm
cows4me

Speaking of firearms, the ducks have seemed to have won round one. Weather to nice, ducks sitting out to sea quacking, I suspect they are laughing. Will probably have to take to the alcohol to drown our sorrows.
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May 5, 2012 3:41pm
Johnboy

Don’t get pissed and mistake a Parasite for a Paradise c4m! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 3:44pm
cows4me

A few top shelves will fix any internal parasites johnboy unfortunately dealing with other sort of parasites may require stronger medicine. Few parries around but buggers sitting in middle of paddocks, rifle material but will get the decoys out later in the season when the arseholes start to eat my new grass.
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May 5, 2012 3:54pm
Johnboy

Sorry Phil. Years of trying to ignore your agonising punctuation have given me an aversion to touching anything other than letter keys.

Any semi-intelligent being would of course realise it was a cut and paste. I can’t be expected to consider the sensitivities of alien life forms such as yr self. 🙂
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May 5, 2012 3:55pm
Johnboy

If the Maggies cause you trouble later on c4m give WINZ a call for a decoy. Phil’s needing a real job soon! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 3:57pm
DJP6-25

Pete George 9:04 am. Labour Mallardy. Just brilliant! I doubt you could find an equivalent in any other language.

cheers

David Prosser
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May 5, 2012 4:02pm
DJP6-25

All_on_Red 9:13am. Thanks for the quote.

cheers

David Prosser
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May 5, 2012 4:05pm
chiz

FF:Here is an article from proponents of Plasma theory which says that there’s other explanation for the red-shift, which is not due to expanding universe.

Big Bang Cosmology Meets an Astronomical Death

You can follow up with references cited in the article above (Google because some a freely available) to see the inconsistency of thinking that the red shift we see, is a confirmation of expanding universe.

If you look carefully at your link FF you’ll notice that none of the references are recent, they all predate the 90’s. This is a strong clue that its nonsense. It claims for instance that no fundamental inhomogeneity in the background has been clearly found which is just complete nonsense. It has been known for a long time now that the cosmic microwave background shows subtle anisotropies and the whole point of the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) satellite was to measure these in detail.

The link’s claims about redshift have been debunked as well. The notion that redshift is not caused by the expansion of the universe and is caused by someother mechanism is known as the Tired Light hypothesis. It can and has been tested. It fails the Tolman Surface brightness test and does not explain cosmological time dilation seen at large redshifts.

I stated yesterday that String theorists had proposed that the big bang had a cause. Big bang was a result of collisions of 2 branes.

This is known as the ekpyrotic model and is actually testable. In about a year or so we should have enough data to rule it in or out of contention. It is however only one proposal by String theorists and they have made others.

Whether big bang took place, then it must have been causal and I support that idea (causality rules) , however on the other hand, if it took place but had no attributable cause/s (as it is the currently accepted mainstream idea), then it is nothing more than a creationist idea, no difference to God creationist

If it doesn’t invoke a divine being then that is quite a substantial difference to creationism. Yourfalse dichotomy – that the big bang must have neen caused or non-caused – overlooks a third possibility that Time itself began at the big bang and that the big bang is therefore part of the overall four-dimensional geometry of the universe. Anyway I’m not quite sure why you are so hung up on causality. Quantum mechanics uses quantum fluctuations which are not caused.
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May 5, 2012 5:43pm
Viking2

Mr Dunne, the Minister of Revenue, has blasted the move as insulting and damaging to the quality of television programming in New Zealand.

“It is too obsessed with its own self-imagined ‘stars’ and the culture surrounding them than to have any credible claim on being a legitimate national broadcaster.

Oh dear from one self obsesessed to another. Look at me look at me.with my possum furree.
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May 5, 2012 6:03pm
Monique Watson

At PG and D Prosser. Cryptic crosswod clue:
Quelling efforts by a fossicking Plover.
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May 5, 2012 7:15pm
bereal

Now that i have had a couple of bevvies on a Saturday nite, i am ready to ask a couple of questions.

1, Who was responsible for bringing Weepu to Auckland ?
Was it Dalton, Lam, Sumcunt or Wun Hung Lo ? and.
Who needs to be sacked ?

2. What about the Blues fans when they see that Weepu is openly trying to bail out and
go home. Cause his Mum would love it ?
i assume that a great big fat, long greasy haired has been like Weepu doesn’t give a shit about the fans.
Doesn’t give a shit about the team,.
Its’s all about him in his mind.
Why does nobody ask him, “Are you committed to your new team, if so, why are you openly trying to F off ?”

And lastly, when Nonu ties a piece of rainbow coloured rag into his beautifull hair, along with the other
pieces of arsepaper he braids in, is it because he is a shirtlifter ( not that there is anything wrong with that)
but if not, why does he do it ?

And who was responsible for bringing Nonu to Auckland ?
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May 5, 2012 7:51pm
Johnboy

The game has never been the same since the backs got hired Beryl. 🙂
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May 5, 2012 7:57pm
nasska

In the days of the Wild West, there was a young cowboy who wanted more than anything to be the greatest gunfighter in the world. He practised every minute of his spare time, but he knew that he wasn’t yet first-rate and that there must be something he was doing wrong. Sitting in a saloon one Saturday night, he recognized an elderly man seated at the bar who had the reputation of being the fastest gun in the West in his day.
The young cowboy took the seat next to the old-timer, bought him a drink,and told him the story of his great ambition. Do you think you could give me some tips?” he asked.

The old man looked him up and down and said, “well, for one thing you’re wearing your gun too high, tie the holster a little lower down on your leg.”

The young man did as he was told, stood up, whipped out his 44 and shot the bow tie off the piano player. “That’s terrific!” said the cowboy, Got anymore tips for me?”

Yep,” said the old man, “cut a notch out of your holster where the hammer hits it. That’ll give you a smoother draw.”

The young man took out his knife, cut the notch, stood up, drew his gun in a blur, and shot a cuff-link off the piano player.

“Wow!” said the cowboy, “I’m learnin’ somethin’ here – got anymore tips?”

The old man pointed to a large can in a corner of the saloon. “See that grease over there? Coat your gun with it.”

The young man went over to the can and smeared some of the grease on the barrel of his gun.

“No,” said the old-timer, “I mean smear it all over the gun, handle and all.”

“Will that make me a better gunfighter?” asked the young man.

“No,” said the old timer, “but when Wyatt Earp gets done playin’ the piano, he’s going to shove that gun right up your arse.”
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May 5, 2012 7:59pm
eszett

chiz (342) Says:
May 5th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

….
Anyway I’m not quite sure why you are so hung up on causality.

FF is hung up about his belief in God. His argument is more or less “i don’t know, but it must have a cause ergo Jesus”
Basically William Craig in a nutshell.
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May 5, 2012 8:21pm
publicwatchdog

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/key-forced-protect-banks-now-118018#comment-375541

MY COMMENT – WAS PUBLISHED – THEN VANISHED!

Gee – I wonder why THAT was?

APPARENTLY CENSORED COMMENT (which probably means it’s ‘politically correct’? 😉

Did John Key’s political protection of John Banks extend to helping to ensure that NO regulatory body to date has applied ‘one law for all’ to former fellow directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, John Banks and Don Brash, for signing Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009, which contained untrue statements?

HOW COME JOHN BANKS AND DON BRASH WERE NEVER CHARGED UNDER s58(3) OF THE SECURITIES ACT 1978 FOR WHAT IS A STRICT LIABILITY OFFENCE????

Were there phone calls/ communications from the highest level to the former Securities Commission; the FMA, the SFO or the NZ Police to help ensure the effective (arguably corrupt) political protection of former National Party colleagues and future National Party necessary coalition allies – ACT’s (National “B” Team’s) current and former Leaders, John Banks and Don Brash?

WHAT OTHER POSSIBLE EXPLANATION CAN THERE BE FOR WHY IT IS THAT JOHN BANKS AND DON BRASH WERE NEVER CHARGED UNDER s58(3) OF THE SECURITIES ACT 1978 FOR WHAT IS A STRICT LIABILITY OFFENCE????

In my considered opinion – this STINKS.

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

Independent candidate in future Epsom
by-election.

http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz

waterpressure@gmail.com
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May 5, 2012 8:41pm
Johnboy

Oh shit! There goes the neighbourhood! 🙂
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May 5, 2012 8:47pm
Luc Hansen

chiz (342) Says:
May 5th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

Great post.

I’ve noted to myself not to fuck with you 🙂
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May 5, 2012 8:47pm
publicwatchdog

FYI folks!

Am looking for more ACT acronyms..

A ccept
C orrupt
T emptations

Have started campaigning in Epsom for the upcoming by-election – yesterday (Friday evening) in the wilds of Remuera with brand new banners:

“A ssociated with
C rooks and
T hieves

with morph of dodgy John Banks morphing into (older /non-botoxed? 😉 Mr Burns from the Simpsons.

plus rather lovely cariactures of Banks and Dotcom – MEAGASTUFFUPLOAD.COM

The other banner :
“AOTEAROA IS NOT FOR SALE – unlike the ACT MP 4 EPSOM – DODGY John Banks”.

Hundreds and hundreds of people saw these banners (the displaying of which probably a bit uncommon in the Remuera/Epsom electorate heartland?) – so arguably – there will probably be a bit of a ‘ripple’.

A number of people actually agreed with the sentiments expressed, and took copies of the ACTION PLAN against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption and ‘corporate welfare’ upon which I campaigned as an Independent ‘anti-corruption’ candidate in Epsom in 2011.

(Had copies still available – how convenient! 🙂

(Copies of ACTION PLAN downloadable on http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz)

Beware dodgy and shonky Johns!

A number of concerned members of the voting public do NOT like lies especially GIGANTIC WHOPPERS of the dodgy Banksie variety ……..

Have secured the website http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com and am getting material organised for it.

Will include copies of the formal letters of complaint to the Police lodged by myself and 2007 former Mayoral candidate Lisa Prager over the alleged $15,000 Sky City donation and alleged $50,000 donated by Kim Dotcom that were not disclosed in John Banks 2010 Mayoral electoral returns.

Also a copy of my formal complaint to the SFO against both John Banks and Kim Dotcom for alleged bribery and corruption (s105) of the Crimes Act 1961.

Given that the SFO are purportedly the ‘lead agency’ to which allegations of bribery and corruption are to be reported, it will be fascinating to see what they do with this complaint.

Not been impressed to date with the track record of the SFO (or the Police) when it comes to DOING THEIR JOBS and applying ‘one law for all’ to those alleged ‘white collar’ criminals who are running the country?

Neither Police nor SFO did anything in 2008 when I made a formal complaint about John Key over TranzRail, or in 2011/2012 when I formally requested that they charge Banks and Brash as former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses which contained untrue statements?

A STRICT liability offence (for those upon whom the balance of political power is not dependent?)

Seems that some arguably crooked ‘white collar’ politicians are effectively a ‘protected species’ In NZ ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’?

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

Independent candidate in future Epsom
by-election.

http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz
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May 5, 2012 9:22pm
chiz

eszett:FF is hung up about his belief in God.

Oh, I thought he was an atheist.

His argument is more or less “i don’t know, but it must have a cause ergo Jesus” Basically William Craig in a nutshell.

🙂
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May 5, 2012 9:29pm
Luc Hansen

Who is William Craig?
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May 5, 2012 9:31pm
bhudson

How about:

Against
Cretins (&)
Troughers

[that includes you by the way Penny]
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May 5, 2012 9:33pm
Steve

Bright – full moon almost, try tomorrow Ms Dim
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May 5, 2012 9:46pm
krazykiwi

nasska from today’s gd:

[Your daughter] takes after mother I presume?

Quite so. Mrs KK thanks you for your compliment. Now, where was I. Oh yes. Would you like any fries with that?
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May 5, 2012 9:46pm
bereal

Hey Luc Hansen,
Why are you a nudist ?
What do you get out of being a nudist ?
What are you on about when you talk about the, “eye candy” that you nudists get ?
How sick is that ?
And, when you flagelate yourself, what do you use as your scourge ?
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May 5, 2012 10:24pm
graham

Penny: When you write:

“A ssociated with
C rooks and
T hieves”

I assume you are talking about yourself.

Because, as we all know, you have STOLEN water, showed others how to STEAL water, and indeed have encouraged people to STEAL water.

That makes you a THIEF.
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May 5, 2012 10:31pm
philu

urban dictionary defines ‘flagelate’..as..

‘Vaginal flatulance accompanied by a significant clunge discharge.’

what can i say..but..whoar..!

..luc..!

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 5, 2012 10:50pm
Luc Hansen

bereal…

I think of you…

🙂 🙂 🙂
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May 5, 2012 10:55pm
Falafulu Fisi

Chiz said…
Anyway I’m not quite sure why you are so hung up on causality.

No, its not me. Even giant intellectual as Richard Feynman understood this philosophical problem.

Let me ask you a kindergarten question. Do real objects (regardless of their size) have attributes/properties/identities?

Chiz said…
Quantum mechanics uses quantum fluctuations which are not caused.

I know that already. Again Feynman and others recognized this problem. Feynman challenged other physicists that if anyone could formulate a theory that can describe the double slit experiment (epitome of quantum mechanics) then that theory ought to replace quantum mechanics.

Let me ask you a second kindergarten question again. If you shoot just a single photon/electron/particle thru the double slit apparatus (and then instantly turn off the source) and this particle is to be then detected via the back screen (particle counter). Here is the kindergarten question and I’m sure kids will know the answer. Did the single particle go thru the 2 holes simultaneously (as it is accepted today) or it went thru a single hole only?

The 2 kindergarten questions above will answer your question of why I (and others) are so hung up on causality?
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May 5, 2012 11:01pm
Luc Hansen

FF

Being hung up on causality is just so…primitive.

Get over it.
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May 5, 2012 11:19pm
Kimble

Who is William Craig?

William LANE Craig is an apologist touted as the strongest defender of the faith in scientific debates. His argument is merely a version of the Kalam Cosmological fallacy.

1. All things that exist had a cause.
2. The universe exists.
3. The universe had a cause. (And that cause is the God of the Bible. Yes, the one obsessed with foreskins.)

Its a pretty much pointless argument anyway, because even if we concede something caused the universe to begin, there is nothing to say that that cause is sentient, that it still exists, or that it is the god of the bible. All it does is push the argument a little further down the road to “what caused ‘God’ to exist”.

To which I am sure theists will argue that nothing did, God is timeless.
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May 5, 2012 11:57pm
chiz

FF:Do real objects (regardless of their size) have attributes/properties/identities?

Thats a very tricky question, especially with the parenthetical qualification. The experimental evidence is quite clear that local realism is false. In order to get aound this you have to find a way around Bell’s theorems which is very very nontrivial.
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May 6, 2012 12:10am
Falafulu Fisi

Chiz, try again. To exist, is to exist as something. If the object is something, then it automatically has attributes or identities otherwise it is nothing or simply non-existence. This is why Physics must be guided by philosophy.

Chiz…
The experimental evidence is quite clear that local realism is false.

This is inferred and not proven. Do you understand the difference? Are you talking about the Aspect experiment (or its modern version – the double delay choice experiment performed at Innsbruk University, Vienna in the late 1990s? Again, the Aspect experiment or its modern version is inference not proof.

Chiz…
In order to get aound this you have to find a way around Bell’s theorems which is very very nontrivial.

The theory of elementary wave (TEW) was proposed in the mid 90s in order to solve that. It has weaknesses, but all theories have weaknesses when they’re first proposed and Relativity & Quantum Mechanics are no exceptions. Since it is a saturday night, perhaps you can watch a presentation in the late 1990s of TEW at Caltech by the author. TEW manages to explain most of the QM’s prediction but it dismisses uncertainty principles, complementarity and other God like observables in QM (no causes). TEW is a causal local theory. TEW has yet to be tested, but its theoretical prediction is the same as QM expect that it is a local causal theory.

(1 of 18) Dr Lewis E Little, Theory of Elementary Waves @ JPL, Feb 2000

You can find the rest of the video series (2 to 18) there on the same page.

Now, you don’t seem that you want to answer the second question that I posed to you above.

Does a single particle that is detected at the back screen of a double slit go thru the 2 slit holes or only thru one hole? The answer is quite obvious.
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May 6, 2012 12:36am
Kimble

Lots of things are obvious to children, and most of them are wrong.
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May 6, 2012 1:17am
Fletch

Kimble, this is the same William Lane Craig that Richard Dawkins refuses to debate.
Wonder why that is, if Lane Craigs’ arguments are so weak? 😉
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May 6, 2012 9:13am
Kimble

Fletch, you cant assume Dawkins is scared of WLC, or that his arguments are correct for the same reason. Dawkins famously wont debate ANY creationists*, with good reason.

Creationists say so many wrong, dishonest, and stupid things that they actually “win” debates by having most of their bullshit left unaddressed. Its called the Gish Gallop. You could spend hours debunking the bullshit WLC spouts in a couple of minutes. Go to Youtube. People do it. The truth is, you often have to spend hundreds more words explaining why something is bullshit, than the original bullshitter used to bullshit their bullshit. And even when the scientist focuses on a single critical thing in the creationists argument, and debunks it completely, the creationist just moves on and changes the subject.

* dont bother bringing up John Lennox. Just because Dawkins debated ONE creationist, doesnt mean he has to debate them all.

Dawkins has actually said why he wont be on the same stage as WLC: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/20/richard-dawkins-william-lane-craig

So what? WLC’s argument has been utterly demolished an uncountable number of times. But because one guy wont waste his time “debating” him, you are going to assume he must be right? Those are straws you’re grabbing for.
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May 7, 2012 1:26am
Kimble

This demolition is worth a read, http://richarddawkins.net/articles/612104-dealing-with-william-lane-craig
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May 7, 2012 1:45am
Manolo

Pandering to the savages: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/06/attorney-in-hijab-defends-call-for-other-women-at-11-hearing-to-wear/
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May 7, 2012 4:13am
Manolo

Sarko will be toast later today: http://news.yahoo.com/voting-starts-france-sarkozy-headed-defeat-060730392.html
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May 7, 2012 5:16am
philu

the anti-austerity-wave crashes onto the beach…

..i wish i was in paris today..

..to join in the celebrations…

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 7, 2012 6:22am
Manolo

The stupid never learn: François Hollande, the Socialist winner wants to impose a tax rate of 75 per cent on income above €1m.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/278412e6-9538-11e1-8faf-00144feab49a.html?ftcamp=published_links%2Frss%2Fworld_uk%2Ffeed%2F%2Fproduct#axzz1u7ERCoU6
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May 7, 2012 6:31am

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