General Debate 19 July 2012

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Fletch

FIRST!

Hey, is it just my imagination, or is the electricity “weaker” in the mornings? I put my Milo in the microwave the same as normall, and it doesn’t heat up the same. Ditto with the toaster – put it in at the usual setting and it’s hardly done past white.

Can they do that? Turn down the power or something?
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July 19, 2012 8:02am
Manolo

O Canada! http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/07/18/for-the-first-time-canadians-now-richer-than-americans
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July 19, 2012 8:09am
Manolo

Too many single malts last night, Fletch? 🙂
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July 19, 2012 8:10am
Longknives

And as predicted the gutless government backs down and panders to the racists-

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7304971/Maori-Party-given-assurance-over-water-rights
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July 19, 2012 8:13am
Manolo

Did you ever doubt Smile-and-wave’s bravery and balls of steel? The PM is a hero…..not.
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July 19, 2012 8:15am
Fletch

Manolo, @8.09am – not surprising – Obama’s policies have sent the U.S to the poor house…
@8.10am – nah.. I know it sounds weird tho….lol
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July 19, 2012 8:16am
Fletch

ps, Sheriff Joe has come up with more evidence re: Obama’s “birth certificate”. it’s almost certainly forged.
His team talked to a former employee who handles birth Certs in Hawaii, and the pencilled numbers you see in the cert are code, and they also mean that those particular fields on the cert are not filled out. However, in Obama’s they ARE filled out.

Investigators for an Arizona sheriff’s volunteer posse have declared that President Barack Obama’s birth certificate is definitely fraudulent.

Members of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s posse said in March that there was probable cause that Obama’s long-form birth certificate released by the White House in April 2011 was a computer-generated forgery.

Now, Arpaio says investigators are positive it’s fraudulent.

Mike Zullo, the posse’s chief investigator, said numeric codes on certain parts of the birth certificate indicate that those parts weren’t filled out, yet those sections asking for the race of Obama’s father and his field of work or study were completed.

Zullo said investigators previously didn’t know the meaning of codes but that the codes were explained by a 95-year-old former state worker who signed the president’s birth certificate.

Zullo said a news reporter who has helped out in the probe let investigators listen in on an interview he concluded of the former state worker.

The Obama campaign declined to comment on Arpaio’s allegations.
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July 19, 2012 8:21am
Longknives

Fletch- I just love that they have rounded up a “Posse” to investigate! It’s Wyatt Earp hunting down the Cowbows all over again…OK Corral at High Noon?
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July 19, 2012 8:26am
Lipo

Am I the Lone Ranger in my thinking that the only person responsible for Iraena Asher’s death is Iraena Asher?

What is all the fuss with the Police and the family that took her in

Or am I missing something?
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July 19, 2012 8:29am
Fletch

Obama Corral 😛

Bad luck for him that the guy who originally signed his Birth Cert is still alive.
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July 19, 2012 8:30am
Pete George

Another thing that the Alcohol Reform Bill is proposing to change is alcohol levels of RTDs, limiting them to 6% in off-licences.

Is there anyone here who drinks RTDs? Does anyone care if 8% RTDs are reduced to 6%?

Popping alcopop popularity, or lopping the lapping of loaded lolly water.
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July 19, 2012 8:41am
Longknives

Lipo- I have noted that the sensationalist media have only very lightly touched on the fact that Asher and her friends were dabbling in hard drugs the evening of her disappearance. It seems quite likely she was ‘tripping’ when she wandered off naked and dancing into the night..
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July 19, 2012 8:41am
Manolo

Was it difficult to predict the racists would never abandon the baubles of office? All in the name of a good cause, the greater good of Maoridom, the whanau and endless platitudes, of course.
http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8501591/key-and-maori-party-resolve-differences
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July 19, 2012 8:42am
Nookin

Lipo
There are issues. Did anyone spike her drinks? Efficiency of the 111 service. Dealing with people who are and may be bi-polar. Did she walk into the sea –police say yes, psychiatrist says it’s not consistant. Why was she distressed when she rang for the “taxi”? Could/should anything else have been done?
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July 19, 2012 8:43am
Manolo

Is there anyone here who drinks RTDs? Does anyone care if 8% RTDs are reduced to 6%?

The percentage does not matter.

It’s the principle at stake which is important: meddlesome politicians and control-freaks intruding more and more in the lives of the citizen. Why would anyone support that?
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July 19, 2012 8:47am
Keeping Stock

Manolo said

Was it difficult to predict the racists would never abandon the baubles of office? All in the name of a good cause, the greater good of Maoridom, the whanau and endless platitudes, of course.

Does Manolo have a mirror adjacent to his computer into which he peers as he describes everyone else as racists?
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July 19, 2012 8:49am
Pete George

Hone Harawira seemed to misrepresent when he spoke on Radio NZ this morning – he said (unchallenged) that John Key said he WILL ignore the Waitangi Tribunal. All I have heard Key say is that he COULD ignore the Tribunal. Big difference.
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July 19, 2012 8:53am
Longknives

Nookin- With the benefit of hindsight of course the 111 operator stuffed up.
Do bear in mind though that Emergency Call centres likely get dozens of calls each weekend from drunk/tripping people ranting incoherently or wanting a ride home.
Shall we divert the police from attending the burglary/home invasion at your house so they can pick up every girl who cant handle her drink/drugs?
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July 19, 2012 8:54am
David Garrett

Fletch: I am no expert on this, but I recall “brown outs’ in the US in the 1970’s…which was caused as I understand it by reducing the voltage to save electricity…
When you are making your milo and toast in the morning, so is almost everyone else, and so it seems possible there could be a slight voltage drop as a result of all that demand?

An interesting one for the scientists and engineers among us…

Re the Maori Party’s “victory”, if that report is accurate, he hasn’t agreed to anything of substance…to sit down and discuss the Tribunal’s findings with them..that’s a long way short of saying he will follow whatever they recommend…

That said, it is way past time someone in power said “enough” to all this bullshit…even the so called “treaty” says nothing about ownership of water in Article II, the only part of the treaty the Maori are interested in…
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July 19, 2012 8:56am
Longknives

” it is way past time someone in power said “enough” to all this bullshit..”

Well said that man!

Alas I don’t think this will ever happen…the horse has well and truly bolted!
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July 19, 2012 8:59am
MT_Tinman

Pete, I would hope the Hatfield, for once in his life is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
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July 19, 2012 9:07am
Weihana

Fletch (3,067) Says:
July 18th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

Weihana, whether you like it or not, America was founded by Christian people on Christian principles. To now say you don’t like it is just too bad…

Just too bad? Too bad for you. The SCOTUS is on my side. Aside from the religious right there are few who are upset with the status quo – i.e. that religion play no role in government. So poo poo to you.

It would be like belonging to a decades-old vegetarian society and declaring that it’s not right that they don’t eat meat: that’s too bad – it is what it is. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.

I don’t care if they eat meat and I don’t care if you believe in fairy tales. Just don’t attempt to utilize the government to impose your craziness on others. There is no court that will agree with your wishful thinking on the 1st amendment. Your elected representatives will have to do a little more court stacking if you ever expect them to overturn Everson v Board of Education or any of a number of other decisions reaffirming the incorporation doctrine and its consequent application of the 1st amendment to state and local authorities.

Those who don’t like America’s Christian roots can always go live in another country – one where women wear veils, gays get stoned, and anyone who blasphemes against the Prophet gets killed.

False dilemma. American’s live in a liberal democracy with a wall of separation between government and religion. That isn’t going to change if Romney gets elected. If *you* want to live under religious rule it is *you* who will have to travel to the middle east. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. 🙂
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July 19, 2012 9:10am
MT_Tinman

Mr Garrett I have no trouble at all with Maori claiming water or for that matter air, gravity, light or any other such bloody silly claim.

What I object to is paying a bunch of racists (The Waitangi tribunal is not noted for it’s balanced racial representation) or for that matter anyone else, to “consider” those claims
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July 19, 2012 9:12am
kowtow

A victory for free speech at Auckland Uni but the relentless march of the health control freaks continues. This is ridiculous. I note the article says the Health Bord is employing “smoke free officers”,no wonder the governments’ broke .

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/217697/unhappy-about-name-change
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July 19, 2012 9:15am
David Garrett

Mr Tinman: I have already expressed my view that the Lange government’s decision to allow the Tribunal to hear claims other than those relating to historic grievances would come to be seen as it’s biggest blunder. Perhaps that time has now come.
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July 19, 2012 9:17am
Scott Chris

Hey, is it just my imagination, or is the electricity “weaker” in the mornings? I put my Milo in the microwave the same as normall, and it doesn’t heat up the same. Ditto with the toaster

You put your milo in the toaster Fletch? I prefer mine in a mug.
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July 19, 2012 9:19am
Manolo

Hey, Helen Clark and all tobacco-nazis will be very proud of having these “officers” patroling the streets.
Nothing much has changed since those days.

Disclaimer – I do not smoke.
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July 19, 2012 9:21am
Scott Chris

Members of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s posse said in March that there was probable cause that Obama’s long-form birth certificate released by the White House in April 2011 was a computer-generated forgery.

Wow! Did they find the time machine too? Don’t know why you take anything to do with Sheriff Joe “Yosemite Sam” Arpaio seriously Fletch.
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July 19, 2012 9:23am
Weihana

Arpaio just wants to get Obama into some pink underwear. The guy’s a raving queen.
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July 19, 2012 9:28am
MT_Tinman

Mr Garrett the time for a total cessation of the Waitangi Tribunal came and went many years ago.

Many of it’s excesses can, of course, be sheeted home not at Lange or even the worse Palmer but to bloody Bolger so it’s a genuine cross-part travesty.
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July 19, 2012 9:32am
liarbors a joke

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7305912/Spell-in-jail-for-threats-to-the-boss

Lovely people…peaceful.
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July 19, 2012 9:33am
David Garrett

I have actually met Sheriff Joe…an interesting experience….Let’s just say that his credibility is one of the several things McVicar and I don’t agree on…

Mr Tinman: the point is the Tribunal would have been restricted to enquiring into alleged wrongs done in the distant past had it not been for the Lange Labour government changing its jurisdiction…Bolger didnt do that..
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July 19, 2012 9:38am
bhudson

Does anyone care if 8% RTDs are reduced to 6%?

If the acknowledged issue is pre-loading on sweet RTDs by younger drinkers and there is a need to address it through some sort of regulation, then I don’t believe that capping the maximum alcohol content is the way to do it.

I don’t think the govt should be dictating what the alcohol % by volume should be (other than, perhaps, to prevent a drink that would be lethal to drink.)

I think that specific issue, such as it is, would be better addressed through an excise increase specific to the problem. That doesn’t even mean an increase on RTDs as a whole, but an increase on those that are overly sweet and, through that sweet taste, make it easier and desirable to drink more.

Place a higher excise on pre-mixed alcoholic drink of 4% or greater alcohol content that have a sugar content of x mg/100ml or x% by vol.

It won’t fix all of the issues with problem drinking and drunken behaviour, but it is a targeted approach at addressing the problem (or noise, depending on your opinion) that has led to calls for changes in purchase age, availability of alcohol and opening hours.

What is more it achieves that without wholesale penalties on responsible drinkers and, in fact, not even necessarily all RTD drinkers.

If the sweetness of the RTDs is leading young drinkers to drink more, then elevating those prices may lead to substitutes, but those substitutes do not have the flavour characteristics that those drinkers favour – likely leading to less consumption – still drinking, but less likely to be drinking as much. (The simple correlation is that if they liked drinking the less sweet RTDs, they’d be drinking them now – reports (if they are to be believed) are that they are not.)

Edit: Time doesn’t permit the construction of the argument to the extent it deserves – essays could be written to justify positions on the issues (irrespective of the positions)
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July 19, 2012 9:48am
Keeping Stock

RIP Stuart “The Emperor” Jones; we will not see his like again. He was a gentleman who played golf simply for the love of the game, and not as a meal ticket. He could have become a professional, and been as good as Sir Bob Charles became, but he chose to have an amateur career that will likely never be bettered in New Zealand.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/07/rip-emperor.html
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July 19, 2012 9:51am
graham

There’s so much wrong with this story …

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820609

“Peters stands up for Maori smokers”

Even the headline starts off badly. So is it okay to smoke, as long as you’re Maori? Winston is only going to stand up for Maori who smoke, and screw the rest of you?

We then read:

Habitual smoker Winston Peters stood up for low-income Maori who will pay up to $20 a pack for cigarettes after new tax rises, and challenged medical evidence smoking causes 5000 deaths a year.

…

He told the committee that new levies on cigarettes would “thump the pockets” of poor Maori. “I wonder how many Maori are behind you on this issue?” he asked Maori Party vice-president Ken Mair, whose party was pushing the tax rises.

Mr Mair responded by inviting Mr Peters on a field trip to a pub to see how Maori felt about paying more for their cigarettes.

“I’m more than happy for you to come to Wanganui and come to a bar and we’ll canvass them and survey them and we’ll see.”

So, it’s okay for Ken Mair to suggest that Maori hang out in the pub all the time, but imagine if you or I said that. To his credit, Te Ururoa Flavell did point out that not all Maori spend every waking moment at the pub.

Ken Mair then drew a comparison to the Urewera terrorists, and claimed that “… the real terrorists in this country are the tobacco companies. These terrorists cause immense death to the scale of 5000 people a year.”

Yeah, good one Ken. Except for the tiny fact that smoking is still legal. If you and your mates had actually manned up years ago and insisted the Government make smoking illegal, then you might have a leg to stand on.

Bunch of morons.
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July 19, 2012 10:02am
mikenmild

Bad, bad Winston. I thought it was Peter Dunne’s job to stick up for the tobacco companies.
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July 19, 2012 10:08am
All_on_Red

Why do the Greens hate poor people so much?
We all know that most of their pronouncements are about helping them admire their own reflection but are they that narcissistic that they dont realise their policies hurt the poor?
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July 19, 2012 10:21am
Pete George

I thought it was Peter Dunne’s job to stick up for the tobacco companies.

You make a number of claims like this – but you never support them with any facts. It’s actually Tariana Turia’s area of responsibility as Associate Minister of Health, and as a part of ministerial responsibility Dunne (also an Associate Minister of Health) can’t speak for or against.

Are you a dopehead? Pot smokers seem to be the most miffed by Dunne. Hissy dissers.
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July 19, 2012 10:33am
Pete George

This seems a much softer tone from the Waitangi tribunal claimants:

Maori: The water will keep flowing

Maori do not want to stop water coming out of the tap or prevent farmers having access to rivers, the Waitangi Tribunal has heard.

Lawyers for the claimants in the case for Maori ownership of water began summing up their case this morning.

Maori Council lawyer Felix Geiringer told the Tribunal the claim was not about having an ownership plaque on the wall.

“People are being forced to lay claim to things that have always been their own.”

Maori did not separate the water in a river from the river bed or banks, he said.

Water resources had always been, and still were fundamental, to all cultures.

Therefore it was reasonable to expect some sort of water rights would be available to all, Maori ownership “could not mean that anyone in New Zealand has their tap turned off”.

That was unacceptable and against the Treaty of Waitangi principle of partnership.

And agriculture was the “lifeblood” of the economy and must not be sabotaged, he said.

The matter of water ownership did not have to be solved today but it needed to happen soon.

Sounds like a much more reasonable approach than we have been led to believe by ‘news’.
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July 19, 2012 10:43am
backster

Milkenmild::::::::Helen CLARK has bestowed the highest honour on them.
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July 19, 2012 10:51am
Pete George

Inefficient and ineffective MPs supported by the Clerk of Parliament.

Ok, that’s not exactly what was said.

The Clerk of Parliament, Mary Harris, said:

Members of Parliament should not be compelled by law to work “efficiently and effectively” because delay was a legitimate political tool, a panel of MPs was told yesterday.

Should MPs be given a free pass on their work ethics and habits?
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July 19, 2012 10:59am
publicwatchdog

Here you go Kiwibloggers!

Good moaning! 😉

OK FOLKS! TIME TO HELP PUSH ‘PEOPLE POWER’ TIME!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/business/7306585/Mighty-River-Power-seminar-disrupted-by-asset-sales-opponents?comment_msg=posted#post_comment

MY COMMENT (yet to be published)

Don’t be greedy and selfish NZ ‘mums and dads’ and ‘grandmas and granddads’!

Think of your children and grandchildren and the children and grandchildren of those who are struggling now to pay power bills?

Think of the vulnerable elderly – who can’t afford to have a heater on in winter.

Do YOU want a profitable Mighty Power dividend on the backs of the vulnerable poor whose power prices are bound to increase?

If so – what sort of New Zealander are YOU?

If YOU are a decent, ethical, socially and fiscally responsible New Zealander – YOU will pledge NOT to invest in Mighty River Power, and to take action that cannot be ignored!

IT’S PEOPLE POWER TIME!

Time to SWITCH OFF / SWITCH FROM Mercury Energy – 100% by Mighty River Power! Time to use the market against the market.

There is precedent for this.

In 2008, (already privatised) Contact Energy raised their power prices 12% and doubled Directors fees. In 6 months Contact Energy lost 40,000 customers and their profits halved.

Switch to Genesis or Meridian (NOT Contact Energy – because it’s already privatised).

http://www.powerswitch.org.nz

Penny Bright
‘Anti-privatisation’ /’Anti-corruption’ campaigner

http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
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July 19, 2012 11:03am
Paulus

Hadfield Hone cannot speak properly so how can he understand precisely what other people say.
Pigs..t ignorant.
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July 19, 2012 11:19am
Keeping Stock

Hey Penny; have you heard whether Banksie’s going to be prosecuted yet, or whether he’s off the hook? Bet you can’t wait!

As for the MRP share float; bring it on. I will be buying a shareholding as a long-term investment, and with any luck they will be passed on to my children when my days on God’s earth are done.
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July 19, 2012 11:20am
Weihana

bhudson (2,103) Says:
July 19th, 2012 at 9:48 am

Bottom line is no law is going to stop young people from drinking. If parents struggle, while controlling their accommodation, financial security etc. then what chance does the government have?

Consider your solution: raise tax on a premixed drink. As if they can’t figure out how to mix the liquor and soft drink themselves.

But these substitutes don’t have the same “flavour characteristics” you say… as if teenage binge drinking was an exercise in sophistication where discerning drinkers savour the taste as opposed to seeing how easily they can get shit faced.

Lets be realistic. They choose RTDs because they’re easier to drink. That doesn’t imply that they will not stomach a beer or other drink if need be to effect their purpose.

Government needs to stop trying so hard and put the emphasis back on parents. They have the most power and are best suited to enforce rules for their children.
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July 19, 2012 11:31am
bhudson

Lets be realistic. They choose RTDs because they’re easier to drink. That doesn’t imply that they will not stomach a beer or other drink if need be to effect their purpose.

So, by the mere fact of presenting them with something that is less drinkable, you have achieved a shift in behaviour. A natural response to not liking a food or drink is to consume less of it. Will some (even many, perhaps) just suffer the dislike of the drink and consume as before? Possibly. I certainly didn’t claim it would solve the problem of all problem drinking? Would it help? A great deal more than doing nothing.

Government needs to stop trying so hard and put the emphasis back on parents. They have the most power and are best suited to enforce rules for their children.

While I don’t disagree that parents should be held responsible for children in their care, this particular issue raises a couple of problems to that solution.

1. Are 18 & 19 year olds still children and the responsibility of their parents as such?
2. Just how many don’t live with their parents at that age? I can’t see parents being responsible for their kids getting hammered at uni in Dunedin (or elsewhere.)
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July 19, 2012 11:51am
David Garrett

Ah Penny! You get that summons served yet?
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July 19, 2012 11:58am
Weihana

bhudson,

A natural response to not liking a food or drink is to consume less of it.

Except that what they like about the drink is not the taste, it is the alcohol. The sweet taste is a means to an end.

…Would it help? A great deal more than doing nothing…

That’s your problem: you assume you must act. Doing something is always better than doing nothing. I say doing nothing is much better. The freedoms of adults can be endlessly whittled away on the spurious basis that “something” must be done to curb teen drinking.

While I don’t disagree that parents should be held responsible for children in their care, this particular issue raises a couple of problems to that solution.

1. Are 18 & 19 year olds still children and the responsibility of their parents as such?
2. Just how many don’t live with their parents at that age? I can’t see parents being responsible for their kids getting hammered at uni in Dunedin (or elsewhere.)

I don’t think they are the responsibility of their parents. If need be impose consequences for anti-social behaviour. Nominally they are adults and should be treated as such. If they want to get drunk that is their right, as it is the right of every adult. If they create a disturbance or otherwise cause problems then the law should address those individuals specifically and not punish all other adults because a minority cannot handle their drink.
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July 19, 2012 12:01pm
Manolo

Punish the huns, not the rest of us. I share Weihana’s opinion.
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July 19, 2012 12:06pm
bhudson

That’s your problem: you assume you must act. Doing something is always better than doing nothing. I say doing nothing is much better.

But you don’t say do nothing weihana. What you said to do was simply something different:

Government needs to stop trying so hard and put the emphasis back on parents. They have the most power and are best suited to enforce rules for their children.

I pointed out that that might not work for 18 & 19 year olds.
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July 19, 2012 12:08pm
bhudson

the law should address those individuals specifically and not punish all other adults because a minority cannot handle their drink.

I don’t disagree. And my suggestion was not to punish all adults at all. Admittedly it would be a financial penalty on all people who favour very sweet RTDs, but that certainly is no where even remotely close to a majority of adults, let alone all of them
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July 19, 2012 12:11pm
liarbors a joke

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8501718/armed-robbery-suspect-found-by-police

does it ever end…
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July 19, 2012 12:12pm
kowtow

Throwing responsibility back on parents is a good one.

One minute the Greens and most of parliament are saying kids have all sorts of rights,not to be disciplined.Next minute parents are to be held accountable?
FFS!
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July 19, 2012 12:12pm
Weihana

bhudson,

What I’m saying is that the government effectively should be doing nothing. The law already addresses individuals specifically and that is enough for me. If someone has ideas on how to better address those specific individuals then I’m all ears, but I don’t support doing something for the sake of doing something and generally I oppose punishing adults (including financial penalties) for the sake of addressing teenage behaviour.

Regarding 18 and 19 year olds you could say the same about 34 and 35 year olds. The point is that these are (nominally at least) adults and it is not the government’s job to regulate their lifestyles. If they step out of line punish them like any other adult.
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July 19, 2012 12:18pm
Northland Wahine

18 yr olds don’t wake up and suddenly think… I’m not gonna listen to my parents… Any parent has been raising their kid responsibily, will have teen that respects them. If not, at 18, you’re wasting your parent breath.
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July 19, 2012 12:21pm
Weihana

bhudson,

my suggestion was not to punish all adults at all… it would be a financial penalty

I have trouble reconciling those two statements. A financial penalty is.. a penalty.. a punishment.. whatever you want to call it. It may not be much of one but it is one and that’s how these things progress: one small slice of freedom at a time.

Now I’m not totally opposed to pragmatism, but I just don’t see any in this case. These silly little rules are invented solely because “something” must be done. It is action for the sake of appearing to do something and I do not agree with sacrificing freedoms on that basis.
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July 19, 2012 12:25pm
James Stephenson

Except that what they like about the drink is not the taste, it is the alcohol. The sweet taste is a means to an end.

Is it though? Or does the high sugar content override the body’s own appetite control and allow people to drink more of the stuff?

Of course, if RTDs were banned people would just go back to mixing their own spirits and soft drinks.
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July 19, 2012 12:26pm
Weihana

kowtow (2,257) Says:
July 19th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

Throwing responsibility back on parents is a good one.

One minute the Greens and most of parliament are saying kids have all sorts of rights,not to be disciplined.Next minute parents are to be held accountable?
FFS!

Not to be disciplined and not to be whacked are two distinct concepts. 🙂
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July 19, 2012 12:28pm
kowtow

northlan wahine

I hear you but the prevailing philosophy and influence of peers is enormous.It is very difficult bringing up children in the face of a very corrupt society.

weihana@1218,1225
jeez this hurts,but I am in complete agreement with you. 🙂
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July 19, 2012 12:44pm
redeye

Fletch @ 8:02am: Just a guess but it could have something to do with your toaster and microwave working in a colder environment (frosty mornings) and with colder raw materials (your bread could have started out colder having spent the first part of the morning in a frosty cupboard).
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July 19, 2012 12:49pm
Pete George

I can sense a few eyes rolling as I post this.

Taniwha proof of Maori water rights

Mr Geiringer said hapu and iwi which spoke at the hearing had clearly shown that the relationship they had with their water in 1840 and since was akin to the modern English concept of ownership.

“Hapu have had in 1840 a relationship for which the closest cultural equivalent within modern English concepts is one of ownership – of full-blown property rights. What I’m going to ask you to find is that one at least it seems highly likely that the same could be said of every hapu and every water resource throughout Aotearoa.”

He said Pakeha scoffed at the concept of taniwha because they did not understand it.

However, the Maori belief that taniwha were the guardians of their waterways giving them exclusive use of that water was evidence that Maori believed they ‘owned’ the water in modern English terms.

“People say ‘in this resource is my taniwha, my guardian spirit. He protects me, he protects my water resource. He’s not your taniwha so if you are going to use that resource without my permission, he will do terrible things to you’.

I think this makes Key’s option of ignoring a bit easier.
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July 19, 2012 12:53pm
Northland Wahine

Kowtow… Understand that too. However I still maintain that if you raise your kids to accept if they live under your roof, they live by your rules.

I’m 5 foot f all and my sons are almost 6 feet… Until recently they were living with me. They know no matter what age they may be, while under my roof, my rules. That shouldn’t be so hard.
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July 19, 2012 12:53pm
kowtow

northlandwahine
Totally agree.My way or the highway. Doesn’t stop ’em from trying it on though:)
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July 19, 2012 1:02pm
Manolo

How can you negotiate with Stone Age beliefs? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820686
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July 19, 2012 1:09pm
Pete George

On taniwha it’s it’s it’s…difficult to comment diplomatically, but I have a go. It’s a taniwha too far.
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July 19, 2012 1:18pm
Nookin

“Hey, is it just my imagination, or is the electricity “weaker” in the mornings? I put my Milo in the microwave the same as normall, and it doesn’t heat up the same. Ditto with the toaster – ”

Does anyone know why Fletch was putting Milo in the toaster?
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July 19, 2012 1:23pm
Manolo

USPS on the brink:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444097904577535322022316422.html?mod=WSJ_hppMIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
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July 19, 2012 1:25pm
Pete George

Does anyone know why Fletch was putting Milo in the toaster?

Because the voice of the taniwha was telling him “put the milo in the toaster, put the milo in the toaster”.
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July 19, 2012 1:29pm
hj

Tourism in doldrums
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10820549

except for Chinese market: Chinese drivers, Chinese buses, Chinese Restaurants.
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July 19, 2012 1:29pm
Yvette

Why is this [below] not mentioned in the present ‘controversy’?

How many times do these matters need to be settled?

Waikato River Deed Of Settlement Signed With Waikato-Tainui
Thursday, 17 December, 2009 – 10:47
The Crown and Waikato-Tainui today signed a revised deed of settlement in relation to their historical Treaty claims over the Waikato River, Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Christopher Finlayson announced.
“Earlier this year we approached Waikato-Tainui about seeking more effective and economically efficient arrangements for delivering the overarching purpose of their 2008 settlement, which is to restore and protect the Waikato River environment,” Mr Finlayson said. “I am very pleased we have reached this goal and want to acknowledge the efforts of the Waikato-Tainui co-negotiators Tukuroirangi Morgan and Lady Raiha Mahuta.”
The Crown and Waikato-Tainui signed a deed of settlement in August 2008, providing a $210 million clean-up fund and co-governance over the river environment. The revised deed streamlines the co-governance arrangement and retains the clean-up fund.
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July 19, 2012 1:41pm
kowtow

How many times do these matters need to be settled? In perpetuity Im afraid.

http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/opinion/212056/complaint-industry-still-rambles
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July 19, 2012 1:46pm
Monique Watson

Russell Norman on home ownership:

http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/07/russell-norman-says-we-are-abandoning.html?spref=fb

Was that what the teeetfest on urban density was about yesterday?
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July 19, 2012 1:53pm
Nookin

A flaccid sentence for a stiff drink.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7309325/Gin-and-Viagra-drink-driver-sentenced
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July 19, 2012 2:52pm
si_rangi

And while we are on colour and crimes, as that seems to be a bit of theme….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7308493/Top-cops-son-gets-merciful-sentence-after-kidnapping

Fair enough, kidnapping isn’t really much of a crime.

While I will be amongst the first to admit Maori commit many heinous crimes, so do other members of our society. How often do we see Maori convicted of multi-million $$ fraud, I can think of only 1 recently. How is that Petrovich fellow getting on these days. What is the prevelant race that commit paedophillia?

Each day I look at GD and I am dismayed at the level and tone of race based comments that are becoming ever more the norm, I am very close to exercising my right to not bother, which would be a shame as there is much I do enjoy reading GD and there is often balanced and well thought through debate.

What I have put may seem hypocritical, but what the hell, i have felt like saying this for a while now.
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July 19, 2012 3:10pm
Manolo

The end could be near for this bastard: http://news.sky.com/story/961706/syria-bomb-attack-targets-assad-inner-circle
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July 19, 2012 3:14pm
liarbors a joke

“What is the prevelant race that commit paedophillia?”

Good question. Evidence of such acts ?
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July 19, 2012 3:19pm
kowtow

Actualy cops seem t be into it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175311/Ian-Bower-Paedophile-special-constable-fled-Britain-jail-release-convicted-child-abuse-Cambodia.html

Maybe we could start a hate forum against cops ,a bit like the anti Catholic one here?
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July 19, 2012 3:26pm
kowtow

Oh look maybe an anti CYFs forum

http://www.3news.co.nz/71-children-abused-while-in-CYFs-care/tabid/423/articleID/261665/Default.aspx
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July 19, 2012 3:34pm
kowtow

Manolo

Assad may be near an end but this will lead to increased sunni/shia problems in the ME.It’s going to get very untidy.Funny how the MSM bleat on about the so called Arab Spring when in fact resolutions there seem to only come with a huge amount of high explosives.

Al qaeda suicide bomb instructor to his trainees;

Now watch this very carefully cos I’m only going to do this once……..
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July 19, 2012 3:41pm
si_rangi

Maybe pop over to the Sensible Sentencing Trust Sex Offender register for a look. I did when a convicted pedophille moved in three doors down from my house. Unfortunately all walks of life are represented there. What scared me was the number of teachers on the list.
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July 19, 2012 3:47pm
liarbors a joke

I see its already cost taxpayers $900000 over this maori-water issue. What a rort. No wonder the countries broke and going backwards.
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July 19, 2012 3:54pm
Pete George

It’s an interesting old universe:

Hubble spots spiral galaxy that shouldn’t exist

Astronomers using the Hubble Space Telescope have discovered the oldest known spiral galaxy, a 10.7-billion-year-old anomaly that by all rights shouldn’t exist.

The galaxy was present in the early universe, about 3 billion years after the Big Bang, at a time when galaxies were still forming and normally looked clumpy and irregular.

“The vast majority of old galaxies look like train wrecks,” said UCLA astronomer Alice E. Shapley, one of the discoverers of the unusual spiral galaxy. “Our first thought was, why is this one so different, and so beautiful?”

The reason this one does exist may be the companion dwarf galaxy that appears to be merging with it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-spiral-galaxy-20120718,0,4789994.story

Good pic with the story.
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July 19, 2012 3:55pm
Nookin

I wonder who this person had in mind when putting pen to paper. Anyone we know?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/7245308/Internet-trolls-have-low-self-esteem
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July 19, 2012 4:09pm
liarbors a joke

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8501859/guilty-verdict-in-bag-snatch-murder

..and so it goes on..
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July 19, 2012 5:03pm
Manolo

But they are “good boys” their families say. Sigh.
Line the bastards up.
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July 19, 2012 5:28pm
big bruv

Brilliant!

The Sheep shagging Crusaders drag out one of the games dirtiest players to defend the accusations of cheating.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/7305373/Rugby-great-speaks-out-to-defend-Crusaders
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July 19, 2012 5:33pm
Manolo

BB, you’re a true crusader against the Crusaders.
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July 19, 2012 5:37pm
Viking2

”Morrinsville girl”

Now there’s one that I haven’t seen DPF trot out to his various nights out.
Mind you, he has sung her praises before.

Labour list MP ”Morrinsville girl” Jacinda Ardern said today, ‘Everyone knows I’m a Morrinsville girl,

we are innovative and early adapters

Now’s your Time DPF.
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July 19, 2012 6:02pm
chiz

Nookin:Does anyone know why Fletch was putting Milo in the toaster?

Its in Leviticus?
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July 19, 2012 6:04pm
Viking2

During the same meeting Mr Williamson explained that before licences were introduced, all you needed to be a builder was ”a cellphone, a dog and a ute”.

Well what do you need to be a long troughing poilitician then?
Didn’t even need a cellphone when he started, just needed to suckhole a bunch of blue rinses grandma’s in Howick.
Nothings changed has it.

At least builders now have to have a licsence.
What do politicians have to wave at the customers that tells us they actually know or understand anything at all about what their role in NZ is actually about??
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July 19, 2012 6:04pm
kowtow

manolo
I’ve worked it out!

A crusader is one who has taken the cross,to redeem the Holy Land from the Muslim infidel.

BB can’t help himself,anything remotely associated with same is anathema.
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July 19, 2012 6:19pm
Viking2

Members of Parliament should not be compelled by law to work “efficiently and effectively” because delay was a legitimate political tool, a panel of MPs was told yesterday.

The Clerk of Parliament, Mary Harris, said she wanted the reference removed from the proposed Members of Parliament (Remuneration and Services) Bill.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820608

So it seems that the people in charge simply side with Labour and don’t see the need to up their game. Perhaps its time the system had a good clean out.
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July 19, 2012 6:25pm
Yvette

Even if your Parliamentary work is, as a legitimate political tool, to delay a bill, shouldn’t you still do that “efficiently and effectively”?
And the last time Labour endeavoured to do that, the Partial Assets Sale Bill, they were fucking neither.
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July 19, 2012 6:34pm
chiz

New Zealand is one of the laziest countries in the world according to new health study.
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July 19, 2012 6:37pm
mikenmild

V2
The Clerk of the House is correct: it is stupid to put anything prescriptive in legislation about MPs’ duties and how they carry them out. That’s one reason why the House has standing orders.
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July 19, 2012 6:39pm
mikenmild

Very interesting I’m sure chiz; but I can’t be bothered reading it.
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July 19, 2012 6:40pm
Reid

Obama believes that he knows what needs to be done to restore his country’s fortunes. And he may even be right. But, like Jimmy Carter in the 1970s, he is both arrogant and supremely impractical. Hardly anyone understands his healthcare reform. All they know is that under his presidency, the economy has continued to stagnate while borrowing continues to rise. They applaud the killing of Osama bin Laden but know that any American president would have given the identical order.

Romney, meanwhile, is an unconvincing entrepreneur, whose politics are less of the Right than of the One Per Cent. Given that he has spent the last 30 years grubbing for cash, the only surprise is that he hasn’t made more. $250 million may sound a lot if you’re a pizza delivery man. But to the likes of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, not to mention the other 391 US billionaires, it is small change, suggesting a man lodged firmly in the bottom 0.9 of the One Per Cent.
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July 19, 2012 6:53pm
cha

Fair enough, kidnapping isn’t really much of a crime

Except when you’re not the son of a policeman and then it’s a serious crime punished by eight and a half years in prison.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7094915/Great-Barrier-kidnapper-jailed
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July 19, 2012 6:55pm
Viking2

mikenmild (5,157) Says:
July 19th, 2012 at 6:39 pm

V2
The Clerk of the House is correct: it is stupid to put anything prescriptive in legislation about MPs’ duties and how they carry them out. That’s one reason why the House has standing orders.

REALLY.
Most of us have job descriptions and expected results. Why shouldn’t an MP?
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July 19, 2012 7:40pm
nasska

Murphy, a furniture dealer from Dublin, decided to expand the line of furniture in his store, so he decided to go to Paris to see what he could find.

After arriving in Paris he visited with some manufacturers and selected a line that he thought would sell well back home. To celebrate the new acquisition, he decided to visit a small bistro and have a glass of wine.

As he sat enjoying his wine, he noticed that the small place was quite crowded, and that the other chair at his table was the only vacant seat in the house. Before long, a very beautiful young Parisian girl came to his table, asked him something in French (which Murphy could not understand), so he motioned to the vacant chair and invited her to sit down.

He tried to speak to her in English, but she did not speak his language. After a couple of minutes of trying to communicate with her, he took a napkin and drew a picture of a wine glass and showed it to her. She nodded, so he ordered a glass of wine for her.

After sitting together at the table for a while, he took another napkin, and drew a picture of a plate with food on it, and she nodded. They left the bistro and found a quiet cafe that featured a small group playing romantic music.

They ordered dinner, after which he took another napkin and drew a picture of a couple dancing. She nodded, and they got up to dance. They danced until the cafe closed and the band was packing up.

Back at their table, the young lady took a napkin and drew a picture of a four-poster bed. To this day, Murphy has no idea how she figured out he was in the furniture business.
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July 19, 2012 8:00pm

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