General Debate 18 April 2013

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joana

The Boston terror suspect is a well connected Saudi. Abdul Rahman Ali Al-Harbi. He became a suspect while in hospital than a person of interest.His apt was searched. Was this the one in Revere St which had about ten occupants? He was spotted with two other Saudis at the marathon. There is a photo of him carrying a black shoulder bag. He has six rellies in Al Qaeda..and five rellies who were in Gitmo.
Fort Hood was a workplace violence..Benghazi was a You tube video from California. How will Obama and his lackeys spin this one?
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April 18, 2013 8:07am
EAD

Gay Marriage…

very late to hear the news as I’m UK based but let me offer a different perspective rather than that of the Useful Idiots (there’s a phrase for the day) who think they are so enlightened as they blather on about equality this, hate speech that without really understanding where this path ultimately leads. This same thing is happening throughout much of Western Europe despite not being an issue on the radar even 2 years ago now all of a sudden it is being rammed through parliaments without referendums and without a democratic mandate from the electorate.

Stand back objectively and ask yourself what direction are we in the West heading? Is it continuing along its path since the Renaissance of increasing freedom and liberty for its people encapsulated by documents such as the Magna Carta and US Constitution which so exquisitely defined the natural law between citizens and government…….or are we going the other way and our god given freedoms are slowly disappearing? Are we having our thoughts subconsciously moulded by what is deemed right and wrong by the government and its education system – when was the last time you ever heard someone say “he can say what he wants, it’s a free country”? Are our property rights, particularly our property rights in the money we hold being respected or are they slowly being stolen away via monetary inflation and increasing taxation? Are we moving in the direction of a free press with a wide range of opinions able to criticize and investigate or are the only alternative opinions we find increasingly in the comments section?

And so onto Marriage, and its consequent the family, which is the principal bulwark against an all-mighty, all-controlling state. If everyone can get “married”, then marriage loses all its meaning – even Orwell would have been amazed at this control of language Every single dictator starts by undermining the family with government propaganda. Over here, our “caring” welfare state removes the need for dads and provides free school education – if you think propaganda is too strong a word, just look at the different value sets between just 2 generations of Kiwis.

We are on the road to serfdom but we’re too busy arguing amongst ourselves about government dictated divisions – gay vs. straight, black vs. white, right vs. left, poor vs. rich, that few can see what is staring right before us.

As Johann Wolfgang von Goethe once said – “None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free”
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April 18, 2013 8:08am
kowtow

I’m ashamed that parliament has passed a discriminatory law against polygamists,ironically a law that is claimed to be in the name of equality.
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April 18, 2013 8:09am
MT_Tinman

Now that marrying a queer has become compulsory I need to know if there has been an age limit and/or time limit placed on the procedure.
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April 18, 2013 8:22am
MT_Tinman

Kowtow, I agree. NZ needs to return to genuine traditional marriage.
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April 18, 2013 8:22am
mandk

Nice quote from a 25-year-old on the impact of Thatcher on the UK, as reported in the Herald: “She took a country on its knees and breathed new life into it”.
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April 18, 2013 8:23am
jonnobanks

http://www.lolhappens.com/265473/well-said/
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April 18, 2013 8:24am
Paulus

How sad to read the Auckland Herald headlines this morning “We all do”.
NO WE DO NOT –
about 150,000 homosexuals in this country, as usual a small vociferous minority tell us we are wrong about homosexuals, and they are all lovely and we should tell them so.
One screaming woman on Radio left wing this morning screamed “We are now all the same”.
Wish they would take that to the part maori in this country.
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April 18, 2013 8:25am
toms

I saw a lovely big rainbow this morning on my way to work. I think this is God telling us he doesn’t mind gay marriage at all.
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April 18, 2013 8:32am
Urban Redneck

In relation to homosexual “marriage”, what disgusted me was having to bear witness to straight liberals using the issue solely as a basis for moral preening to publically demonstrate their self-indulgent sense of virtue. And as for the hapless National Party, they have let themselves be led down a rabbit hole time and time again and I will never forgive them for being willing accomplices in such heretical deconstructionism.
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April 18, 2013 8:32am
EAD

Just how prophetic were Huxley, Orwell and Hayek when they wrote their seminal works 80 years ago? Instead of calling their books Brave New World, 1984 and The Road to Serfdom they could have just called it “how the West, under the influence of Soma (iPhones, facebook & football et. all), woke up poor after allowing all their hard won freedoms to be destroyed”. But hey what does that matter – at least we’ll finally have achieved “equality”! (except for the pigs down on animal farm off course)

Don’t accept however this fate is inevitable, FIGHT BACK – educate others, speak the truth, write to you MPs, organise petitions, and starve the government of your tax money by getting out of debt, buying from farmers markets, buying secondhand where you can, structure your tax affairs efficiently and don’t hold large sums of monies in banks – they’ll steal it by debasing it or otherwise just do a Cyprus.
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April 18, 2013 8:33am
Chris2

I was always intrigued that the media never asked Louisa Wall about the obvious conflict of interest that her gay marriage bill involved. She used her parliamentary position to promote and effect a change in legislation that, as a lesbian, will directly benefit her.
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April 18, 2013 8:35am
iMP

Glad the marriage debate is done (so over it). Interesting to juxtapose two results last night 90 minutes apart:

Public: large Campbell Live Poll at 7pm. 22% support same-sex marriage (78% against)
Parliament: 64% support same -sex (36% against)

about a 3-1 disconnect between the pro-bill MPs and the public. That will cost some MPs.
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April 18, 2013 8:37am
kowtow

Boston terror outrage.

The authorities and media in the US have been desperate to distance this terror from “jihad” ,Obie wouldn’t even call it terror initially.There’s even a marked effort to point it towards “anti Federalists” ,even a desire for it to be a white man.

Last night news broadcast telling of the pressure cooker bomb being very familiar to US army personnel,even in the manual. But they did not say where the army have become so familiar with these bombs……..no way they would use the word Afghanistan,because that would point the finger of suspicion at Muslims.

If you are the media you can discus and conjecture openly white supremacists,anti Federalists etc but just don’t mention the religion of peace.
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April 18, 2013 8:38am
Dennis Horne

What this bill has done is fracture the connection between common law marriage–a man taking a wife, an institution rooted in antiquity–and marriage as the legal entity, the piece of paper.

The special relationship between men and women–mating and rearing any offspring–remains unaltered. But its name has been stolen and applied to homosexual relationships, when marriage has never permitted homosexual acts.

This can only diminish marriage as an ideal for men and women. Already it’s seen as too hard. Easier to do what you like and the children can take whatever comes.

I don’t blame homosexuals for this. They are a symptom, not the cause. But the irony is, in their quest for respectability, they have inextricably changed and possibly tarnished the very prize they have won.
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April 18, 2013 8:40am
joana

Kowtow,
A lot of media outlets are still saying that no one has been arrested.
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April 18, 2013 8:42am
Dennis Horne

Two blokes discussing the end of the world.

David: What would you do?

Roger: Shag anything that moves. And you?

David: Keep very still…
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April 18, 2013 8:43am
cha

Rest easy, the 4chan boys are on to it.

http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA
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April 18, 2013 8:47am
KiwiGreg

“a man taking a wife”

you left off “..as property” and “…whether she wants to or not” from your paen (sp?) to traditionalism.
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April 18, 2013 8:49am
kowtow

EAD

Good post.

I am appalled at the lack of comment ,particularly in our shit NZ media over just what is happening in the Federalist USA ,EU and now QE loving Japan.
Cyprus should be ,if needed ,the clearest signal that the EU is a thieving socialist lie.

One thing you won’t get. The media to talk about the debt that is crippling the west.Private and public debt.The malaise is so profound it is frightening.
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April 18, 2013 8:51am
Kea

The Boston terror suspect is a well connected Saudi.

Dam those Afghans !!! Lets bomb them some more. Same as we did when the rich Saudi (an American ally) Bin Laden organised 911.

It is very kind of the strict fundamentalist Islam Sharia law dictatorship of Saudi Arabia, to allow the US to fly missions to kill Afghans off Saudi airfields. Allah is trully mercifull.

Now I await all the thumbs-down from the brain washed oxygen theives who think this is all ok, cause the media told them so.
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April 18, 2013 8:55am
wreck1080

Despite DPF’s assurances that power prices are not increasing very quickly , we get this….

“Electricity prices were a conspicuous exception to the subdued inflation numbers reported yesterday.

As measured for the consumers price index, electricity prices rose 5.2 per cent in the year to March 2013, nearly six times as fast as the overall CPI, which rose 0.9 per cent.”

Admittedly, they are upgrading the network but this is surely an constant activity. And, why is the cost of network upgrades so much more than 5/10 years ago?
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April 18, 2013 8:58am
RRM

Well I for one welcome our new homosexual government overlords.

But really – after all the hatred and fighting, it was wonderful to see it all end last night with that beautiful song rising up from the gallery In our parliament. I’m very proud of my country today.
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April 18, 2013 9:01am
hmmokrightitis

Noted the irony last night with Maggies funeral…

Left wing idiots partying at her death, turning her back on the funeral cortege. If Scargill had had his way, and the country had become a marxist plaything, the right to open expression of such things as this would have been zero. But of course that level of irony, freely expressing contempy for leadership, which in the state they opined for would have crushed with great vigour, is utterly lost on them.

And they call themselves the intellectual political movement. Tui ad right there.

Hang your heads in shame. As Ive said before, you were not fit to carry her hand bag you duplicitous scum.
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April 18, 2013 9:02am
BlairM

So glad NZ abolished slavery last night. That was what they did, right? It’s so hard to tell from the thick layer of smug everywhere.

I’d congratulate all the redefiners, but… oh look at that! they’re doing such a good job of that all by themselves…
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April 18, 2013 9:05am
Dennis Horne

KiwiGreg (2,763) Says: April 18th, 2013 at 8:49 am. DH: “a man taking a wife”
you left off “..as property” and “…whether she wants to or not” from your paen (sp?) to traditionalism.

Yes, the Homo sapiens breeding programme is working just fine. Resources are growing and people are independent and happy.
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April 18, 2013 9:05am
Griff

Dennis Horne (925) Says:
April 18th, 2013 at 8:43 am

Two blokes discussing the end of the world.

David: What would you do?

Horne for arse sex Dennis: Shag anything that moves up the arse. And you?

David: Keep very still…

All fixed for you bum boy 😆
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April 18, 2013 9:06am
liarbors a joke

Kim Jong-uns mother says to him..” Kim , when I told you to nuke the chinese, I meant last nights dinner “..
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April 18, 2013 9:09am
Dennis Horne

@Griff. I can see I’m rubbing you up the wrong way. Delicious. 🙂
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April 18, 2013 9:10am
liarbors a joke

Putrid stuff emanating from Parliament last night…cant wait for next years general election, we’ll see how smug a few of them are when facing the dole queue as a direct result of their actions.
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April 18, 2013 9:13am
KiwiGreg

paean – I knew it didn’t look right. Thanks Google, is there anything you don’t know?
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April 18, 2013 9:14am
Lance

Anybody that disagrees with Kea is;
-An oxygen thief
-Brain dead
-Brain washed
….and generally not as smart as him.

Wow… what a superior being Kea is.
A legend in his own mind.
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April 18, 2013 9:16am
Kea

Lance, thanks for the accolade.

I get as good as I give, you snivelling little prick 🙂
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April 18, 2013 9:32am
Dennis Horne

Lance, Kea, are you two married already?
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April 18, 2013 9:34am
kowtow

Lance I had to stop myself commenting on kea ‘s “oxygen theive” as my own spellin an gramar ar’nt grate.

But commenting on oxygen deprivation and mis spelling “thief”in the same sentence I can’t pass up.
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April 18, 2013 9:34am
Kea

Where has Red gone ? Maybe he is off on his honeymoon ?
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April 18, 2013 9:35am
Kea

“Lance, Kea, are you two married already?”

Dennis, I can’t wait for those poofters to share the “equality” of divorce 🙂
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April 18, 2013 9:37am
EAD

Thanks KowTow,

The biggest obstacle people face is breaking out of the false left/right paradigm. I watch smart people argue whether .gov should take 30% rather than 45% of someone’s salary yet they think they’re miles apart ideologically. Rather than right vs. left, I start getting people to debate on a freedom scale of liberty vs. being ruled at the other. The big problem is so many people are conditioned to thinking that only .gov can provide us with education, healthcare, retirement, welfare, trainsets, planes and so on. They are literally scared of freedom and the responsibilities that come with it. It’s somewhat ironic as it was Thatcher and Kennedy (and to a lesser extent Reagan) who gave their populaces the biggest seachange towards freedom and were the most wildly popular politicians of the 2nd half of the 20th century yet no politician follows suit!

For an understanding of how we got in this situation from a civilisation based on individual cooperation to one based on increasing stealing from each other via government – read the below link. It’s about 10 minutes long but a great read. It explains the root cause of it all which is how the nature of money was slowly changed without most people realising what has happened because it is was incremental.

http://mises.org/daily/6314/Banking-and-the-State
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April 18, 2013 9:37am
graham

So apparently Louisa Wall now feels the need to take the fight for marriage equality to the Pacific Islands and to Australia (around the 1 minute 45 mark).

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Louisa-Wall-contemplates-her-next-move-after-successful-gay-marriage-bill/tabid/506/articleID/34799/Default.aspx

You go, girl. Go ahead and tell others how to run their countries, because you know what’s best for them.
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April 18, 2013 9:39am
Kea

Kowtow, you had to stop yourself, but did it anyway. You seem to have some impulse control issues there buddy.

In between the personal attacks, do you have any factual counter to my comment regarding the Saudis ? Personal attacks are all good fun, and long may they continue, but it becomes a bit silly when you do not engage the points raised.
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April 18, 2013 9:41am
Fletch

Public: large Campbell Live Poll at 7pm. 22% support same-sex marriage (78% against)

Are there screen shots or video of this?
I missed it.
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April 18, 2013 9:47am
gump

@Urban Redneck

You claim to be in favour of liberty, but you stand against the legalisation of Gay marriage.

You are either a hypocrite or logically inconsistent.
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April 18, 2013 9:48am
Lance

Why would anyone bother to debate you Kea?

You have long since abandoned logic, ignore any counter arguments and resort to as many insults as you can cram into a sentence as you shake your tiny fists of rage at everyone here.
In other words a complete troll.

Which reminds me, I am guilty of feeding the Kea troll so time to move on.
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April 18, 2013 9:48am
kowtow

kea

impulse control issues?

you’re the one with the emotional incontinence…..see your nasty comments on the Boston outrage the other day.
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April 18, 2013 9:54am
cha

G-men are pissed off.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/294563-fbi-admonishes-media-over-boston-bombing-coverage
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April 18, 2013 10:00am
Dennis Horne

Cut it out chaps or I’ll have to bang your “heads” together!

It’s approved now, you know.
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April 18, 2013 10:01am
kowtow

OK now that marriage is about equality and we are told is a human right and it’s the government’s job to ensure our rights are protected etc

can a batchelor or spinster front up to the Human Rights Commission and demand satisfaction? How much compensation should the gummint give them for a lifelong deprivation of their “rights”? Can it be backdated?
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April 18, 2013 10:08am
Sofia

Two women at a party –
He looks fairly cool …
Yeah, that’s John, but he’s married …
Pity
… to Allan, over there.
Oh, a same sex marriage – why, didn’t you say so
Well, you got a word for it yet?

That’s going to destroy the world as we know it?

The other may be a little more confusing –

There’s my dad, over there … and next to him, that’s my other dad
Oh, where did you come from then?
What do you mean?
Well, my mother and father had sex and I am the result, where did you come from?
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April 18, 2013 10:13am
iMP

Fletch, here is a screen-grab and full video link to the Campbell Live poll result last night. 78% against same-sex marriage.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/campbell-live-poll-result-same-sex-17-april/
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April 18, 2013 10:21am
Fletch

Awesome, thanks iMP
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April 18, 2013 10:31am
hj

Chris Trotter on the Great (onesided) debate on Radio OneSided NZ.
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April 18, 2013 10:35am
Dennis Horne

@Sofia. It’s the lack of respect we accord marriage that is the problem, especially for women and children; homosexual marriage is not the cause but a symptom.

The underlying problem is we are becoming too tame. We no longer want to be free and independent animals but we want to do whatever we like, like badly behaved children.

I do believe in society but society needs rules and discipline. People must share common goals, and work, otherwise we end up living like animals in a zoo, needing to be looked after. An alternative would be to live like seagulls, squabbling and stealing.

Civilisation is not a natural state and democracy is not a weed. It does not grow anywhere and everywhere.
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April 18, 2013 10:36am
mara

Heterosexual polygamy at least has a historical precedent and is based on the long-held definition of marriage based on gender complementarity. Same sex marriage is an oxymoron, and making it legal is a bizarre experiment with the truth.
I will vote accordingly next year.
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April 18, 2013 10:40am
Zapper

I started out being supportive of gay marriage and I still am a supporter but apathy for the most part has taken over. I was trying to work out why and came up with a few reasons.

1. Winston of all people summed it up when he said that it appears anyone opposed is called a bigot and a redneck regardless of their reasons. It hasn’t been a fair debate.
2. Being bombarded in media, blogs and social media by heterosexual people trying to appear progressive and rarely hearing from those who this actually affects.
3. This is the main reason: to me, marriage is an archaic tradition and I really couldn’t care less if someone took away my right to marry, so I think this is probably why I struggle to understand why people, or people on their behalf, are desperate to be able to join this ancient ritual.
4. Louisa Wall. Acting like she’s bloody Rosa Parks when this was always going to happen and hundreds of people were lining up to get the credit.
5. Seriously, just sign the thing off and move on to the important issues like Christchurch, the economy and exposing the Green and Labour fraudsters!

As I said, I’m a supporter of gay marriage, just not the tactics of some of the activists. Rant over.
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April 18, 2013 10:53am
graham

Sofia:

I don’t believe that same sex marriage, in and of itself, will destroy the world. How could it?

What I do believe is that over many years, there are hundreds of changes in our society – in the way we think about things, in the way we talk, in the things we find acceptable and the things we find unacceptable. In general, each of these changes will steer our society ever so slightly in a certain direction. Whether that direction is desirable or not may not become apparent for many years or even decades. And what one person considers desirable, another may consider undesirable. But over time, these changes have a cumulative effect.

Pete George, in his own inimitable way, highlighted some of the dishonesty that has come from supporters of this bill. (And yes, I realise there has been dishonesty from opponents of the bill too. Neither side has a monopoly on dishonesty). On the one hand they were claiming that this wasn’t a big deal, no major change, just a small minor detail really – but on the other hand Pete George was last night talking about MPs telling personal stories that show how much they have been affected by it, how moving it was, and we saw the huge influx of people keen to see the bill being passed. Pete himself referred to this as a historic occasion.

I wonder which is it – a small minor change, or a big change, a giant leap for homosexuals, and a historic occasion? Can’t have it both ways.

Don’t get me wrong. I understand that for many homosexuals, this bill is simply about them getting married. Nothing more, nothing less. And I understand that they are quite genuine in their love and commitment for each other. I have said before, I do not stand in judgement on homosexuals. My personal belief is that homosexuality is wrong (for a variety of reasons, not just from a Christian perspective), but to me it is similar to a number of other issues which I believe to be wrong or unwise, such as pre-marital sex (which again I believe to be not only wrong from a Christian perspective, but also harmful to society in a number of ways, and I’ve explained my reasonings on this previously). But I don’t think it’s for me to judge. I know there are many Christians who firmly believe that homosexuality is NOT a sin. At the end of the day, I believe it is up to God to judge each person, not me. That doesn’t stop me speaking out and saying “I believe this is wrong” though.

But this bill cannot be judged in isolation. There is more to this than just marriage equality, and anybody who doesn’t recognise that is simply naive. One example is gay adoption, and many people who support gay marriage have expressed reservations around gay adoption. Even David Farrar, while supporting gay adoption, has stated that “I do believe that it is important for a child to have both a male and female adult in their lives, and the ideal circumstance is that the prospective parents are a male and female married (or civilly united) to each other.”

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/08/gay_adoption-2.html

It seems to me that gay adoption really just slipped in with hardly a murmur, but for at least one gay couple this is the biggest news from last night.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/8564593/Vote-allows-gay-couple-to-adopt-baby

Legalising same-sex marriage and adoption is not where this bill ends. It opens the door to further calls for action in years to come, with the catchcry of “We’ve legalised gay marriage, we’ve legalised gay marriage, let’s show the world how progressive we are, how open-minded we are, what champions of minority rights we are, by legalising xyz. After all the sky didn’t fall in when we legalised gay marriage, so what will be the harm with legalising xyz?” And people will nod their heads and smile, congratulating themselves on how tolerant and open-minded New Zealand is.

For me personally, gay marriage is not a world-ending chest-beating dressing-in-sackcloth-and-ashes here-comes-Armageddon event. As I have said, I consider it wrong, but there you go. I am less happy with gay adoption. As David Farrar himself says, I also believe that it is important – and I would go further and say it is vital – for a child to have both a male and female adult in their lives, and the ideal circumstance is that the parents are a man and a woman married to each other and who have made a life-long commitment to each other.

But what worries me more is what this latest action will lead to. In itself it is simply one more of those hundreds of changes that occur in our society. But it doesn’t end with that bill. Last night was not a conclusion, but a beginning in some ways. Or maybe the beginning was the Civil Union bill. This bill has set a precedent and a reference point for future “let’s continue to be open-minded and caring and tolerant and legalise xyz” actions. Already Louisa Wall is talking about taking the fight for marriage equality to Australia and other Pacific countries.

I simply wonder, what will come next? Because whether it was intended or not, this bill is not just about marriage equality for same-sex couples. Some people have suggested that polygamy is next – marriage equality for polyamorous people. I have no idea whether they’re being facetious or fanciful, but would point out that there is at least one NZ website dedicated to polygamy, and I found that after a minute on Google, so I very much doubt that’s the only group that exists. Are those people who are currently living in polygamous relationships in New Zealand considering their options this morning? I don’t know, but you have to ask, if you were in their situation wouldn’t you?
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April 18, 2013 10:55am
Reid

Bimbo city Arizona:

TVNZ spokeswoman Megan Richards said Seven Sharp was built around the concept of friends having an after work get-together and chatting over topical subjects of all sorts and people were giving it a go.

“We believe we are absolutely on the right track in terms of this being the type of show viewers want to see at 7pm.”

“It is a time when they are transitioning from work and family and kids to relaxation and entertainment. So they don’t want more of the same.”

Journalism started going wrong in the 1980’s when they changed from producing the news as the professionals saw it and letting people drink it or not as they chose, which is a “what do people need to know” approach; to becoming consumed by answering the question of “what do people want to know” which is an entirely different question.

It has led us to bimbo levels of “news” on all sides, as the networks try to out-compete each other in a race toward the lowest common-denominator.

And lo, their ratings continue to plummet almost as fast as the IQ levels of the audience they are aiming at, as more and more people who don’t have room-temperature IQs realise they will never be catered for, in this brave new world of ratings-driven journalism.

So far the idiots in the executive suites give no sign of recognising their own mentalism (which is of course the indicator of the truly insane) and I predict their approach will lead eventually to coverage aimed entirely at hairdressers and telephone cleaners having a fascinating conversation with friends on “the topical issues” as they head home from work, while the rest of us have long since deserted to blogs and other media where we can have real conversations with our intellectual peers, rather than just pretend ones with a bimbo as we gaze at her nice tits.
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April 18, 2013 10:59am
Manolo

Good suggestion on how to treat the animal: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/letters-to-the-editor/8565145/Letter-Throw-away-the-key-for-this-fellow
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April 18, 2013 11:00am
Lipo

I have been thinking of a new business.
Would it be illegal for me to print US dollars in NZ (say on a very good printer) and then sell them to people over Trademe or Ebay?
I might make a few dollars
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April 18, 2013 11:41am
hj

I DON’T GET ANGRY very often. I’ve been around too long, seen history repeat itself too many times, for all that malarkey. Just occasionally, however, I stumble across something that truly infuriates me. Like discussions billed as debates where everybody is actually on the same side. No, I’m not talking about TV3’s “The Vote”. What’s got my dander up is a four-part series being hosted by the NZ Centre for Public Law (NZCPL) entitled “Debating the Constitution”. All four encounters to be broadcast subsequently on Radio NZ National.
http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/chris-trotter-not-debating-constitution.html?m=1
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April 18, 2013 11:50am
Lance

@Sofia (10:30am)
Old Rolf Harris song about a guy whose father was a lighthouse keeper and his mother a mermaid.

“From this union there sprang three, a porpoise and a kipper and the other was me.
I have looked at a Mermaid and as far as I can see, well, I must have been born under a gooseberry tree”
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April 18, 2013 12:18pm
Reid

What’s got my dander up is a four-part series being hosted by the NZ Centre for Public Law (NZCPL) entitled “Debating the Constitution”

Yes it’s not a debate when the only question asked is not “should Te Tiriti be incorporated” but rather “how should Te Tiriti be incorporated?”

And the worst part about it is that they think by pretending the latter is the only genuine question and by never even mentioning the former question, that they will fool all of we little people into thinking that yes, we were genuinely consulted and there was reams of discussion and debate about that constitutional thingy, that happened awhile ago, and it was fair enough too, a just outcome was had, by all. I’m very proud to be a New Zealander. I just wish those awful racist loudmouth rednecks would stop munting on about how it wasn’t really a debate at all. I mean, don’t they know anything? Don’t they remember all the hours and hours of discussion we all had on it?

That’s the plan and all the “learned” participants in the panels and all the “intelligent” journalists who write the reams will be complicit in it, because after all, we the people, don’t know what’s good for us, we’re not enlightened enough to understand the complexities. We’re not “advanced thinkers” like they are.
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April 18, 2013 12:18pm
kowtow

lipo

don’t even joke about it,esp not on a public forum

there are a couple of things that the US secret service take really ,really serious and that is one of them.

ps I don’t wear a tin foil hat but if you’re going to talk like that on the internet you might like to invest in one, before you buy that printing press 🙂
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April 18, 2013 1:04pm
bereal

And on a lighter note.

It has come to my attention that we have a member of Parliament in New Zealand
who goes by the name of,

“Le’aufa amulia A senti Lole- Taylor.”

FFS,
No,don’t laugh, it’s true.

Question is, what happened to the Smith? ( or the Brown ?)

Just joking folks, he’s probably not a bad bloke.
Deep down.
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April 18, 2013 2:51pm
Ross12

I thought this comment about Maggie Thatcher, on a thread on Andrew Bolt’s blog was worth sharing –the thread is about the ABC’s coverage of Maggie Thatchers funeral

“My family is made up of farm workers who migrated to London in the 1880’s and Irish labourers who turned up about the same time in Bristol, I grew up in a rented house typical of a lot of working class people, Dad grew vegies for the family and second hand or hand-me-downs was standard. I left school in 1980 with no real qualifications but something was happening around me – Thatcherism, Mum and Dad bought their first house and went on their first foreign holiday (USA no less) us kids all travelled, bought houses, started businesses, we were Thatchers generation – I had a Jag at 19 and my brother bought a house in France – we were working class people but Thatcher gave us permission to be what we wanted, mistakes were made, I lost some dosh but then Mr Tebbit told us to get on our bikes to “better ourselves” righto, Off to the Middle East, make some money back into the fray, Mobile phones, yuppies, can do, can do. Today i’me reasonably successful family man my 10 yr old works in the family business at week ends he understands he can have anything he wants if he works hard enough because he’s one of “Thatchers Grandchildren” -RIP Maggie

Billercay Dickie of FNQ (Reply)
Thu 18 Apr 13 (09:18am) “
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April 18, 2013 3:12pm
bereal

No, it’s true.
Actually she is female and a list member of the Winston First crew.
She must have a huge drive and a huge ego, watch out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asenati_Taylor

oh dear, oh dear me.
Just what we need in NZ.
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April 18, 2013 3:22pm
cha

CNN interviewing people about the fertiliser plant explosion in Texas and one guy said it blew the front door into his sisters house. She lived 5 miles away.

http://www.kwkt.com/news/caught-camera-fertilizer-plant-explosion-near-waco
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April 18, 2013 3:29pm
cha

60 reported killed.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/04/17/fertilizer-plant-explosion-reported-north-of-waco/
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April 18, 2013 3:42pm
RightNow

FFS bereal, while I disagree with much of what Asenati-Taylor says, ridiculing her name is just childish. It says a lot about you, none of it good.
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April 18, 2013 3:46pm
Griff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w833cAs9EN0&feature=player_detailpage
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April 18, 2013 3:53pm
Kea

kowtow, get off your high horse. There was nothing nasty in my comments. If you think my opposition to civilian deaths is “nasty” then you need to check your moral compass. This sort of thing happens daily and hardly rates a mention, because the dead are not (white) Americans.

I note the cowardice you have shown by not engaging any of the points I raised and launching into a smear campaign instead. If insincere people like you do not approve of my views, I take it as confirmation I am saying the right things.
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April 18, 2013 3:54pm
cha

http://youtu.be/ROrpKx3aIjA
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April 18, 2013 3:57pm
Kea

To murder several runners using bombs at a sporting event is terrorism.

To murder 175 children using military drones is U.S. policy.

We should accept neither. We should fight against both.

http://earthfirstnews.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/the-boston-marathon-and-u-s-drone-attacks-a-tale-of-two-terrorisms/

List of children killed by U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen: (Note this does not include Afghanistan or Iraq)

PAKISTAN

Name | Age | Gender

Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male

YEMEN

Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19
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April 18, 2013 4:10pm
kowtow

kea you’re sore that I pointed out your shit spelling!

One of the victims was a Chinese girl.

I think much of the outrage is the indisriminate and sheer evil intent of blowing up people out enjoying themselves at a sports event that practically any of us could have been at;

as opposed to drone attacks which while deadly to the target (good) and to civilians near same (sad) are not intended to target civilians.

Intent you see is key.
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April 18, 2013 4:19pm
Kea

Kowtow, no intent is not the key to those effected. Pause for a moment to consider how YOU would feel if YOUR family were the victims of a drone attack, because some radical Muslims set up shop in NZ.

I am picking you would not be ok with it on the basis of “intent”
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April 18, 2013 4:24pm
bereal

RightNow @ 3.46

You are right.
i was out of line with that silly comment.
Thanks for your wise observation.

Taken on board.
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April 18, 2013 4:34pm
joana

Don’t worry Kea they won’t remember your name. It won’t be on a list anywhere.
Do you have a list of all the Christians killed in the Middle East, Pakistan , Africa? Do you have list of all the Africans currently in islamic slavery in places like the Sudan?
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April 18, 2013 4:37pm
Kea

joana, no I dont. I also do not have a list of the Americans killed by a little home made bomb in Boston. None of those deaths is the slightest bit more tragic than the 200,000 odd civilians killed by US forces.
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April 18, 2013 4:40pm
Griff

SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.
ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected.
CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels.
HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated.
IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners’ strike.
HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.
CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.
NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields.
CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War
KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war.
PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province.
NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto.
CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos
CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base.
MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d’Alene mining region.
OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone; Opened canal 1914.
HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA 1907 Troops “Dollar Diplomacy” protectorate set up.
HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua
PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups.
CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war.
PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas
MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners’ strike by Army.
MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists.
HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts.
TEXAS 1915 Troops Federal soldiers crush “Plan of San Diego” Mexican-American rebellion
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation.
CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I 1917-18 Naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.
RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks
PANAMA 1918-20 Troops “Police duty” during unrest after elections.
HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign.
YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers.
TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna.
CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt.

MEXICO

HONDURAS

1923

1924-25

Bombing

Troops

Airpower defends Calles from rebellion

Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.
DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion.
IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov’t nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Army & Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba’ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.
PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal’s return.
INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; “carpet-bombs” countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi’a rebel bombs barracks.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov’t.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994 Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be “terrorist” nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi’ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
LIBERIA 2003 Troops Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.
HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against “pirates” and insurgents.
SYRIA 2008 Troops Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels
LIBYA 2011-? Bombing, missiles, command operation NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army.
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April 18, 2013 4:46pm
RightNow

All good bereal, my faith in you is restored.

Looks like griffy is having another episode.

Are there meds you should be taking griff?
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April 18, 2013 4:49pm
bereal

Now as one who has just been called into line by Right Now,( and i needed that ) can i point out to Kea and
joana .
Which is worse ?. is a game that no one can win.

“My side is better because your side killed more.”

is just a puke argument.
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April 18, 2013 4:51pm
Griff

I thought that list illustrated perfectly the hypocrisy of a pro USA position when it comes to warfare on any scale.
The USA plays within the national borders of other country’s to further its own goals far too often.
The outcome is often bad for the freedom of those invaded.
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April 18, 2013 4:54pm
Kea

bereal, I am not taking sides.

I am giving perspective to the deaths of 3 Americans against a backdrop of thousands of civilians dead. In response all I hear are people trying to minimise and make excuses for it.

The bullshit wars need to stop. Simple.

That is my position.
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April 18, 2013 4:57pm
Griff

“puff” are doing right now 😉
MMMMMMM meds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl6MwpboJRo
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April 18, 2013 4:58pm
Kacang

Griff @ 4:46
So was that your argument proving AGW?
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April 18, 2013 5:20pm
Griff

No that was funny .
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April 18, 2013 5:28pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10878339

A senior teacher who filmed up girls’ skirts with a secret pen camera for his own “sexual pleasure and gratification” has avoided jail today.

Doug Martin, 57, was a trusted and respected teacher at Lincoln High School, outside Christchurch, and a local church elder.

Its got it all, School teacher, From Christchurch and a Church Elder…. a perfect trinity, I couldn’t make it up, wicked.
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April 18, 2013 7:01pm
Pete George

The latest Roy Morgan fortnightly poll result will be concerning for National.

National Party 40.5% (down 3.5% since March 11-24, 2013)
Maori Party 2% (down 0.5%)
ACT NZ 0.5% (unchanged)
United Future 0.5% (down 0.5%).

Labour is 35.5% (up 1%)
Greens are 13.5% (up 0.5%)
New Zealand First 5% (up 2%)
Mana Party 0.5% (unchanged)

Conservative Party of NZ 1.5% (up 0.5%)
Others 0.5% (up 0.5%).

One News will have their latest poll results on Sunday night.
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April 18, 2013 7:25pm
Longknives

All schoolteachers are Kiddy Fiddling perverts.
(Just like all Catholic Priests are..)
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April 18, 2013 7:29pm
Kea

Griff finally posts some facts @ 4:56 and everyone thumbs the poor fella down ! What is with that ?

Just off to thumb down all the posts mentioning American deaths…

(not reallly, I do not intend to enter the moral vacuum of hypocrisy that so many are occupying on this topic)
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April 18, 2013 7:35pm
Kea

All schoolteachers are Kiddy Fiddling perverts.
(Just like all Catholic Priests are..)

Longknives, you must have bumped the enter key before you added your point.
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April 18, 2013 7:36pm
nasska

A bloke leaves a pub in South Auckland the other night and was approached by a hooker.
“Fancy a shag?” she asked.
“Sounds good but I only have a twenty.”
She responds, “It’s okay, I have change.”
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April 18, 2013 8:00pm
Pauleastbay

Tony and Yvonne were 85 years old and had been married for sixty years. Though they were far from rich, they managed to get by because they carefully watched their pennies.
Though not young, they were both in very good health, largely due to Yvonne’s insistence on healthy foods and exercise for the last decade.
One day, their good health didn’t help when they went on a vacation and their plane crashed, sending them off to Heaven.
They reached the pearly gates, and St. Peter escorted them inside. He took them to a beautiful mansion, furnished in gold and fine silks, with a fully stocked kitchen and a waterfall in the master bath. A maid could be seen hanging their favorite clothes in the closet. They gasped in astonishment when he said, ‘Welcome to Heaven. This will be your home now.’
Tony asked Peter how much all this was going to cost. ‘Why, nothing,’ Peter replied, ‘remember, this is your reward in Heaven.’
Tony looked out the window and right there he saw a championship golf course, finer and more beautiful than any ever built on Earth..
‘What are the greens fees?,’ grumbled Tony..
‘This is heaven,’ St. Peter replied. ‘You can play for free, every day.’
Next they went to the clubhouse and saw the lavish buffet lunch.
‘Don’t even ask,’ said St. Peter to Tony. This is Heaven, it is all free for you to enjoy.’
Tony looked around and nervously asked Yvonne ‘Well, where are the low fat and low cholesterol foods and the decaffeinated tea?’
That’s the best part,’ St. Peter replied. ‘You can eat and drink as much as you like and you will never get fat or sick. This is Heaven!’
‘No gym to work out at?’ said Tony
‘Not unless you want to,’ was the answer.
No testing my sugar or blood pressure or…’
‘Never again’

Tony glared at Yvonne and said, ‘You and your fucking Bran Flakes. We could have been here ten years ago!’
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April 18, 2013 8:02pm
nasska

“Honey, whisper something in my ear that makes me feel like a woman.”

“Your tits are starting to sag, and your parking is shit.”
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April 18, 2013 8:09pm
cha

Weirdest bad teacher story ever.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/17/texas-teacher-claims-she-couldnt-have-fondled-black-student-because-shes-racist/
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April 18, 2013 9:50pm
Manolo

Multiculturalism British style: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/teenage-paedophile-opemipo-jaji-facing-life-sentence-for-raping-girl-aged-11-had-sexual-interest-in-very-young-white-girls-8578312.html
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April 19, 2013 7:45am
joana

Thanks for highlighting this Manolo..It is something which is ongoing and horrific but hardly receives a mention in the NZ newspapers.
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April 19, 2013 7:50am

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