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March 18, 2014 7:00am by David Farrar

An alternate flag design

Sent in by a reader. Not bad. I like it.

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Comment143

New Zealand
NZ flag

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goldnkiwi

Fisiani (823 comments) says:

March 18th, 2014 at 8:30 am

If the only issue is that the NZ flag looks much like the Australian flag, then they can just change theirs. Done, sorted. 😉
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March 18, 2014 1:14pm
ben

Love it. My favourite so far. Can we replace the anthem while we’re at it?
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March 18, 2014 1:17pm
JMS

Can we replace the anthem while we’re at it?

Good idea, at the very least let’s change the words.
We have one of the more ridiculous anthems in the English speaking world.
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March 18, 2014 1:24pm
mikenmild

Yes, any suggestions for a new anthem? My choice would be Fred Dagg’s ‘Gumboots’.
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March 18, 2014 1:24pm
Pete George

and meaning beyond a sports team

Many sports teams and individuals have proudly worn the silver fern.

Like Jack Lovelock: http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/people/jack-lovelock

And…

It’s no surprise that the Silver Fern symbol is widely used in sport, given New Zealand’s passion for and commitment to sport. However, it is misleading to regard it as merely a sports symbol; it pervades the imagery of all New Zealand and has inspired New Zealanders in all aspects of their lives … from the famous New Zealand export, Fernleaf Butter”, the badges of most New Zealand Army units, Neil Dawson’s Civic Square sculpture in Wellington, Katerina Nehua’s swimming costume for endurance swimming (1904 -1948) to our National netball team, “The Silver Ferns”.

It has played an inspirational role for the military. New Zealand Army contingents, who saw overseas service in the South African War of 1899-1902, are understood to have worn fern leaf badges. The fern leaf had become the Army’s predominant badge by World War I.

http://www.kiwianatown.co.nz/Ed-Hillary-walkway.html#silverfern

And two New Zealand icons on a commemorative coin – Ed Hillary and a fern:
http://lefthandedcoins.com/images/2008%20Sir%20Edmund%20Hillary.jpg
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March 18, 2014 1:30pm
SGA

mikenmild at 1:24 pm

Yes, any suggestions for a new anthem? My choice would be Fred Dagg’s ‘Gumboots’.

Would we have to pay Billy Connolly royalties everytime we sang it?
“Among his best known musical performances were “The Welly Boot Song”, a parody of the Scottish folk song “The Wark O’ The Weavers,” which became his theme song for several years.”
(I’d be very grateful if someone can tell me that Billy ripped off Fred)
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March 18, 2014 1:32pm
mikenmild

Just coz it’s derivative doesn’t make it less of a national song.
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March 18, 2014 1:41pm
SGA

it’s the royalities I’m worried about – every school prize giving, major sports event, and so forth.
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March 18, 2014 1:46pm
Ashley Schaeffer

The new anthem – and I have no doubt that the cultural Marxists will foist one upon us at some point – will have to have all references to God expunged and be sung only in Maori. Poi E anyone?
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March 18, 2014 1:50pm
Pete George

I prefer the Maori version of the anthem because it’s not obvious what it means, and it sounds better.

Derivative is common. Our other National Anthem has an unknown source.

God Save The King/Queen

The author of the tune is unknown, and it may originate in plainchant, but a 1619 attribution to John Bull is sometimes made.

In the United States, the British anthem’s melody is used for the patriotic “My Country, ‘Tis of Thee”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen

If God had to make a choice between saving the Queen or defending New Zealand what would it do? If it came down to an anthem singing contest we’d fail miserably.
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March 18, 2014 1:50pm
greenjacket

Its horrible. A cluttered compromise. And I have no idea at all why it uses red – how is red a New Zealand colour?
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March 18, 2014 1:53pm
Odakyu-sen

CJPhoto noted: “The military put the fern on the grave of fallen soldiers. Obviously they have no concern it is mistaken as a feather.”

Yes, but the fern on the grave of fallen soldiers is not white.

When you have the combination of “fern” + “white,” then you run the risk of misinterpretation.
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March 18, 2014 2:11pm
Pete George

“Yes, but the fern on the grave of fallen soldiers is not white.”

That’s not correct. Here are photos of military graves in Christchurch and Italy with white ferns.
– http://yournz.org/2014/01/31/silver-fern-is-nz-history/

A flag with a white or silver fern would link back to our military past. That’s why I think it’s important to have a fern somewhere in our flag design.
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March 18, 2014 2:15pm
Jack5

Pete George at 2.15 posted:

A flag with a white or silver fern would link back to our military past…

C’mon Pete. We’re very selective about our military past. For example, the rare decoration the New Zealand Cross, the great Prussian soldier Major Gustavus Ferdinand von Tempsky (a Prussian rebranded a Pole by NZ in line with anti-German hysteria and the eliminating of von Tempsky’s East Prussia from the world map by absorbing it into Poland and Russia), the dropping of “Rangers” (named after von Tempsky’s force) from the title of the New Zealand SAS in 1978.

The fern has been dropped as our military symbol for some time now, apparently because in international deployments (Afghanistan, East Timor etc), our Allies associate the new kiwi symbol with New Zealand, but didn’t always know what country the fern represented.

Do you think that the world will easily associate a fern with the 123rd biggest country in the world by population?
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March 18, 2014 2:33pm
Monique Angel

With big Bruv on this one Excuse the “HIPPO”, (Happily Ignoring Previous Posters Opinion) But it’s a white feather whichever way to wave it!
A sac-less white feather flag!
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March 18, 2014 2:37pm
secondcumming

This design would look great flying off the mast of a Sanford trawler…..the filleted fish bones being most appropriate.
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March 18, 2014 2:38pm
Pete George

The fern has been dropped as our military symbol for some time now…

It doesn’t look like it.

The Army uses a fern style logo: http://www.army.mil.nz/default.htm
The Navy uses a double fernleaf logo: http://navy.mil.nz/default.htm
The Army Reserve uses a double fernleaf hat badge: http://reserves.mil.nz/reserves/army/default.htm
The NZ Defence Force uses a double fernleaf:
http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/sites/default/files/images/body/logo-nzdf.png

No sign of a Southern Cross or a union jack on any of those websites.

The Air Force uses a kiwi: http://airforce.mil.nz/
– but many people outside New Zealand are not familiar with kiwis. I was talking to someone in the US military a few years ago and they thought a kiwi was a small furry fruit and had no idea it was also a bird.
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March 18, 2014 2:56pm
Jack5

Re Pete at 2.56:

Pete, the New Zealand soldiers, sailors, and airmen serving in our Afghanistan force wore on their sleeves a kiwi symbol, and that was under a patch reproducing the current NZ flag.

This is a long address link, let’s hope it works.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/_e32aCgcyKo/NZ+Farewells+Last+Defence+Force+Contingent/OJUHibDIZ0h
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March 18, 2014 3:06pm
greenjacket

Jack5: Are you saying that the flag should be a blackflag with a white kiwi?
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March 18, 2014 3:18pm
Pete George

That’s a white kiwi on black – distinctive New Zealand colours. But most people don’t see serving soldiers.

I don’t know if anyone is suggesting we have a kiwi on our flag. There’s very few if any national flags with birds or animals on them so it would be distinctive but there’s no indication it would be popular.
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March 18, 2014 3:24pm
Odakyu-sen

I stand corrected.

(Clutching at straws)

But, but, but, the “white fern” on the gravestone is curved. Maybe “fern” + “white” + “straight” is the combination at risk. (After all, “white” + “straight” is a damning combination in the eyes of many in today’s world, it seems…
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March 18, 2014 3:56pm
Jack5

Greenjacket asked at 3.18 whether I was saying NZ should have a black flag with a white kiwi?

My answer: no.

Does Pete George think that if we don’t dump our present flag for one with a punga on it, we should opt for a new one with a United Future possum on it?
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March 18, 2014 4:17pm
Pete George

That’s nonsensical diversion Jack. The flag shown flying at the top of this post is my current preference (but the choice for an alternative should be open to any suggestions). It retains enough similarities with the current flag but is distinctively different, and ties in enough with (but differentiates from) the very wide use of a fern that dates back well over a century.

Just imagine that being raised at the Olympics, instant pride rather than “have they got ours or the the Aussies, are we red stars or white, I wonder if anyone else notices or cares” sort of thing.
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March 18, 2014 4:49pm
Concerned

An interested friend submits:

In 1964, Canadian prime Minister Lester Pearson was instrumental in driving the removal of the Union Jack as part of a national flag change despite significant opposition from opponents voicing the exact same arguments we are hearing in New Zealand 50 years later. Surely the argument that we should show respect for the flag beneath which our servicemen and women fought and died has lost potency over the years. The battalion badge my Granddad wore on his hat at Passchendaele features a prominent fern as do all the overseas gravestones of our fallen.

The silver fern has been our national emblem since the birth of our nation, instantly recognisable internationally as quintessentially, unequivocally and unmistakably New Zealand. The fern has also been the emblem of our sports men and women for over a century. It is used extensively as a symbol of government, tourism, trade organisations and commercial brands. The Silver Fern says ‘Aotearoa’ ‘New Zealand. ’The Canadians have their red maple leaf, we have our silver fern.

Shouldn’t we get cracking on this before the Aussies? Australia and New Zealand are the last two of 55 British Commonwealth countries to retain the British Blue Ensign.

Kyle Lockwood from Massey University designed this flag way back in 2000. Why is this suggested flag design so stunning?

. It is unmistakeably kiwi
· It is simple, elegant and retains a respectful nod to the current flag in both retention of colour and the Southern Cross
· It is not radical change, our fern national emblem simply replaces the union jack albeit in larger, fuller format

Let’s go for it!
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March 18, 2014 6:20pm
JMS

It is simple, elegant

It’s certainly not simple, and almost impossible to define mathematically.
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March 18, 2014 6:30pm
Ben Dover

VOMIT _ TOTAL VOMIT AND PUKE

IT IS PATHETIC

Wonderful When the people of NZ want a New Flag they will ask for it

otherwise off and find something useful to do

and that goes for you to JOHN KEY or ANYONE ELSE

HE IS A SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE

A CIVIL SERVANT

NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

WE DON’T SERVE YOU
YOU SERVE US

PEOPLE DON’T CARE HOW MUCH MONEY YOU AND YOU FRIENDS HAVE

OF IF YOU ACCEPT PAYMENT OR NOT

YOU DO WHAT WE TELL YOU TO DO – DEMOCRATICALLY

WHEN WE TELL YOU TO DO IT

THAT IS WHY NZ IS DEMOCRACY

SO IF YOU DON’T LIKE THAT RESIGN

AND IF YOU WANTED TO REBRAND THE COUNTRY

AND IF THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT
YOU WOULD HAVE STARTED A LONG TIME AGO

YOU SHOULD HAVE CAMPAIGNED ON THAT IN THE FIRST INSTANCE

AND GIVEN VALID REASONS IN THE NATIONAL PARTY MANIFESTO

TAKE IT TO YOUR OWN NATIONAL PARTY FIRST

THIS WHOLE SUDDEN “CREATED NEED” to

IN AN ELECTION YEAR

TO CHANGE THE FLAG IS TOTAL C R A P _ THERE IS AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE

Without legal or constitutional change IT IS A FARCE

IF YOU DON”T LIKE THE UNION JACK SUNSHINE

THERE IS THE RISING SUN

AND SWASTIKA AS ALTERNATIVES

A minor tweak to define it slightly more from AUS
FOR THE STUPID PEOPLE WHO DON”T REALISE
WHY THEY ARE SIMILAR – MAYBE

BUT OTHER THAN THAT

THIS IS ALL AS BAD AS
THAT

OTHER FLAG YOU ADOPTED ON NZs BEHALF WITH NO REAL DEMOCRATIC CONSULATION
THAT IS

PURE – FASCISM

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE NZ SYMBOLS AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY
REPRESENT

LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND VISIT SOME WITH ALTERNATE SYMBOLS
TO GET THE GENERAL IDEA

AND DO NZ AND AUS A FAVOUR AND DO NOT COME BACK

IT IS PATHETIC

UTTERLY PATHETIC

AND IT NEARLY MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT
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March 18, 2014 8:26pm
mikenmild

Not keen on changing the flag, Ben?
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March 18, 2014 8:32pm
JMS

Bendover,

no real democratic consultation?
are you serious?

Key’s announced there will be a referendum, and if there’s no majority for a new flag, we’ll stick with the current one.

You can always vote NO.

Where’s the problem?
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March 18, 2014 9:04pm
Ben Dover

no real democratic consultation?
are you serious?

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE REAL CURRENT FLAG THE OTHER ONE

KEY ADOPTED ON YOUR BEHALF WITH OUT REAL CONSULTATION

WITH EITHER MAORI OR PAKEHA

THE Tino_rangatiratanga FLAG

DID YOU VOTE FOR THAT DID YOU?

WHEN?

SPARE ME THE LECTURE ON DEMOCRATIC CONSULTATION

WHO VOTED FOR THAT DID YOU?

YEAH 50 .00000000001 %

AND KEY AND THE MURRY’S WILL HAVE A LETTUCE LEAF ON THE FLAG

TAG YOUR FAKE FLAG
YOU FAKE NATIONALISM
YOUR FAKE DEMOCRACY AND
SHUV IT
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March 18, 2014 9:55pm
Johnboy

A big black and white cow squirting it’s udder into a smiling yellow face holding a big wad of cash on a lovely pure green background would seem to be a good choice for a national emblem! 🙂
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March 18, 2014 10:02pm
hubbers

Oh god no
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March 18, 2014 10:54pm
Ben Dover

Christ that Flag is Truly Pathetic if you are going to use the Southern Cross do it properly
and assign it some meaning

That flag is wimpey un balanced and unfocused

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Division_(United_States)

Originally termed a battle blaze, the shoulder sleeve insignia of the 1st Marine Division was designed by Lt. Col Merrill Twining, Division D-3 in February 1943 while the division was stationed in Victoria, Australia.[40] The blue diamond with the Southern Cross is similar to the Flag of Victoria. The red numeral one in the middle denotes the division’s first action on Guadalcanal. A commercial firm in Melbourne first produced the shoulder patch with every Marine issued two of them[41] that was sewn on his battle jacket.

<
The Kiwi Symbol and black from the Boot Polish was developed in Melbourne also
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March 18, 2014 11:07pm
Ben Dover

My god Design by Committee by the Finance Arm of the National Party

Jesus someone Nuke the place so we don’t have to look at any more c r a p designs

Change the name of the Country as well and the Anthem to

GOD HELP US ALL
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March 19, 2014 12:08am
eszett

Ben Dover, proving Poe’s law again and again.
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March 19, 2014 1:51am
Ben Dover

Do what the “puppet masters says” NZ

Is he going to change the Name from NZ to

“Johnstown” “Keysville”

You Zombies just do what they tell you to do
anything they “suggest”

Be Careful when they start handing our special flavoured cordial
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March 19, 2014 8:24am
Ben Dover

Poes Law

it’s Johns Law

you must obey you must obey the master

Change the Flag

Yes Master

We are now your Zombies

We no longer think we just vote

Center right dribble dribble
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March 19, 2014 8:27am
Elaycee

@Ben Dover…. has some mean bugger swapped your meds for Tic Tacs? 😯
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March 19, 2014 8:31am
Dave Mann

I like it too… a lot. Its strong and unique and says who we are perfectly. Great!
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March 19, 2014 8:46am
Random Punter

Hideous.

But keep them coming, DPF. Every ugly, embarrassing alternative just makes the present flag look better and better.
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March 19, 2014 10:56am
wikiriwhis business

Attractive design. Don’t the stars still make us look too Australian. Oh, that’s right, we just trying to get rid of the monarchy as diplomatically as possible under J Key.

China here we come
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March 19, 2014 1:52pm
Ben Dover

You asked for people’s opinion YOU ARE GETTING it

NEXT QUESTION

How does the National party pay for this forum?
to promote it and it’s policies?
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March 19, 2014 9:51pm
Ben Dover

has some mean bugger swapped your meds for Tic Tacs?

NO BUT ???????? LIKE YOU MUST BE ON THEM

BECAUSE YOU CAN”T CONTRIBUTE JACK SH*T CAN YOU

LETTUCE LEAF

YOU WOULD ADOPT ANY GOD DAMNED SYMBOL ANY NODDY WOULD PUSH
IN FRONT OF YOUR SNOUT

WITH OUT QUESTION

JUST LIKE ZOMBIES
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March 19, 2014 9:54pm
Nostalgia-NZ

I don’t think the colour red would rest easy on a NZ flag, but maybe I’m wrong.
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March 19, 2014 9:55pm

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