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April 25, 2014 9:00am by David Farrar

Lest we forget

The Last Post. The video was for British Remembrance Day, but is equally appropriate for us.

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Comment114

New Zealand
ANZAC Day

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wat dabney

Another very unfortunate fact which is rarely considered is that soldiers returning from WWII voted in large numbers for Socialism, denying others the very rights and freedoms they claim to have been fighting for.

So thank you for defeating German leftism, and thanks for nothing for inflicting coercive statism back home.
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April 25, 2014 9:49pm
mikenmild

Yes, the British very famously threw out Churchill in favour of Labour and the welfare state. You’re not still pretending the Nazis were actual socialists though are you? Hasn’t that been rehashed here a thousand times before?
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April 25, 2014 9:52pm
Reid

soldiers returning from WWII voted in large numbers for Socialism

I don’t really know wat so I’m guessing but I’d pick they voted to boot out the govt that sent them to war. Recall Churchill was voted out as well. Perhaps after returning from such an experience the entire country’s just had a gutsful of the whole thing and they want a change, any change.

If a party shouts for vets rights and land etc for those who made it back, maybe for some strange reason that’s appealing to those who’ve seen their bothers and best mates die in front of them as well as their families.
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April 25, 2014 9:55pm
Kea

wat dabney, people who have seen the horror of war would not agree with the positions stated by right-wing pro-war types on this thread. They have seen through the propaganda and bravado.
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April 25, 2014 9:56pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘Perhaps had they not been so determined to save their all important “face” things may have turned out differently but it was the Japanese leaders who were prepared to sacrifice any number of their countrymen for the sake of their wretched honour.

The responsibility for the bombings was theirs & theirs alone.’

So a country defeated to the point of wanting to negotiate the terms of it’s occupation deserves to be bombed with nuclear weapons that kill indiscriminate numbers of civilians. It was after all the civilians fault.
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April 25, 2014 10:37pm
lolitasbrother

thanks David Garrett
April 25th, 2014 at 12:18 pm when you say
quote ”
Mikey: You seem to think if you quote enough poignant war related poetry that will balance out – or perhaps validate – your decision to wear a pacifist emblem on this day most sacred to those who fell in war – both soldier and civilian.

I am from the generation which first saw ANZAC Day desecrated – the only appropriate word – by protestors like Helen Clark, dressed in Vietnamese style clothing and chucking red paint about to signify the shed blood of innocents. That wasnt appropriate then, and wearing white poppies on THIS day is not appropriate now. I dont think anyone could reasonably object to such a symbol worn yesterday or tomorrow…but not today.
unquote ”

Mr Garrett, thank you,
most people on this site did not have dead fathers at that war,
otherwise we would not have been born.
My father came back and he had had a lucky war.
thank you for the truth you brought to this discussion
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April 26, 2014 6:00am
igm

miken: You must be the by-product of gutless conshie forebears . . . get back to your desk and pollute the public with more pro-Labour rhetoric.
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April 26, 2014 6:43am
Judith

Those soldiers that went off to fight in the first and second world war, didn’t go because they cared (or possibly even knew) how the war/s started, they went off, putting their lives at great risk because they cared how it ended.
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April 26, 2014 3:26pm
Kea

Judith, if they had the luxury of knowing the facts and considering the options, they probably would not have gone.
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April 26, 2014 3:29pm
Judith

Hi Kea,

You may be right there, but the times were very different compared to today, and the workings of politics did not enter the common home back then. They went because they were told their countries needed them, and that the lives of their families could be at risk if they didn’t.

By time the New Zealander’s went to Gallipoli – they knew the odds. The horror stories of the slaughter had reached here, but they went anyway.

It is difficult to apply the standards of today when critiquing any of the WW’s. Standards were different. Men were willing to die for honour. They went knowing that many of them wouldn’t return, but that was their duty – that is what men did – they walked on board those ships with pride and a smile – many didn’t return, many returned incomplete, many lie in graves in foreign lands, and many still lie in the bog – their bodies never found. They knew what their fate may very well be – but they fought because it was the right thing to do –

I don’t care about the politics when it comes to ANZAC day – every single one of those guys was a regular bloke. Bugger the politicians – they were probably as crooked then as they are now – but those diggers were heroes in my books.

It is them we remember – it is their sacrifice we honour because they were our fathers and grandfathers, and great grandfathers.
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April 26, 2014 3:56pm
Kea

Judith, I disagree.

They were fed propaganda and lies. The same tactic works just as well today. KB is evidence of that.

The Nazis, the Russkies, The Muslims…
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April 26, 2014 4:01pm
Judith

@ Kea (10,510 comments) says:
April 26th, 2014 at 4:01 pm

Of course they were fed propaganda – but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t remember the sacrifice they made.

It doesn’t mean we should not remember what they did (yes, even when they shouldn’t have had to).

Those men were heroes because of what they did, not why it happened. Probably more so because they went off willingly, without knowing – that was the way it was back then, you didn’t question your leaders, you didn’t ask for explanations, a handshake was as firm as any legal contract is today.

You have to look at their actions in the context of that era. Yes they were fed garbage, but that doesn’t make them fools, because at the time, that is how it was – you trusted what your superiors told you. It’s easy to apply today’s standards and be critical – but you’re talking about two different worlds.
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April 26, 2014 4:19pm
Kea

Judith, don’t get me wrong. They are heroes and I honour their service and what they have endured. Even today I am very strongly opposed to our involvement in Afghanistan, but I still acknowledge the efforts of the service people we send there.

I am a different kind of pacifist to what you imagine.
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April 26, 2014 4:34pm
Left Right and Centre

Two sides each attempting to kill the other. Hell on earth.

That’s humans for ya.
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April 27, 2014 4:29am

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