General Debate 16 September 2014

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Black with a Vengeance

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10503623/XKeyscore-Speargun-Key-digs-in-on-spook-claims

Key is a proven liar whose plausible deniability lacks plausibility.

Greenwald is an award winning journo whose job is to speak truth to power.

Believing Key is then to refute you have an IQ over room temperature.

You are right in that no one really gives a stuff though, but we should.
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September 16, 2014 4:09pm
Alan Wilkinson

@Black, Greenwald knows nothing he didn’t get from Snowden. Snowden has no proof merely inferences. Key has documentary evidence to support his denials. Greenwald offered nothing but insults in response.

Game, set and match.
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September 16, 2014 4:14pm
Black with a Vengeance

Key has documentary evidence to support his plausible deniability.

Well of course he has. His handlers would have made sure of that.

Key is a liar, but he’s not an idiot, though having Slater on speed dial and calling him on the regular has me doubting.

Still, he has his uses.
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September 16, 2014 4:22pm
nasska

Sootie

John Key is running a country & by virtue of his office has accepted responsibility for national security…..if you don’t like what he does then vote him out.

Greenwald is a greasy little traitor to his country who along with others of his ilk places the rest of the free world at risk through his egotistical waffling. Amazingly he only survives courtesy of the system he is hellbent on destroying.

He is dog shit on the shoes of humanity.
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September 16, 2014 4:22pm
Black with a Vengeance

the rest of the free world

Oh you do make me laugh.

Key is a morally corrupt bankster who along with others of his ilk have destroyed any notion of a free world through their egostistical manipulation of the global economy. Amazingly he only survives courtesy of the system he is hellbent on perpetuating.

He is a blight on the future of humanity.
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September 16, 2014 4:33pm
starboard

Quick change of thread , currently on holiday in Perth. What a fantastic place. Clean , go ahead , friendly , awesome awesome beaches ( but big sharks ) hot weather and blue sky’s. Quite nice to have a break from the likes of Corin Dann and Potato Gower blathering on their relentless left wing agenda. One thing I notice though is the price of everything…massively expensive food items for a start..missus and I had fish and chips for 2 in Leederville, 50 bucks ! 2 pieces of Baramundi and Id call it a large scoop of chips..50 bucks! A pint of beer 12 bucks. A bag of crisps 5 bucks. You wana be on big coin if you live here.
Average house price seems to be in the mid 800’s..and ya gotta have a pool. Apart from all that , love the place.
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September 16, 2014 4:33pm
publicwatchdog

RadioLIVE Drive host Duncan Garner interviews Glenn Greenwald following Kim Dotcom’s ‘Moment Of Truth’ event in Auckland.

The journalist uses his strongest language yet to accuse John Key of knowingly lying to the public about spying.

The Pulitzer-prize winning journalist teamed up with whistleblower Edward Snowden last night to claim New Zealanders’ data is routinely gathered and analsyed by America’s National Security Agency.

The Prime Minister has dismissed the claims, but in this interview, Greenwald tells Duncan Garner the Prime Minister’s not being truthful.

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Duncan-Garners-post-Moment-Of-Truth-interview-with-Glenn-Greenwald/tabid/506/articleID/54737/Default.aspx
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 4:40pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9o18x4mehkrwga/Cuckoo%2027.jpg?dl=0
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September 16, 2014 4:41pm
flipper

Penny shithead…

If you talked sense once in a while you would be taken seriously.
As it is you are a bloody bore and, with absolutely no respect, a nuisance troll.

As for the current love of your life, you need to consider Alan Dersowitz’s [sic] opinion of Greenwald. No PennyS, A G is no right wing extremist. Nor is he one of those you habitually accuse of corruption because they have more brains than you, but he is a world-respected Professor of Law, at Harvard.. No one doubts Dersowitz (except probably U) .

He says Greenwald and Snowden are criminals, and should be prosecuted and facing prison. Like U* Pennyshithead?????
Pay your rates. Until then go away.
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September 16, 2014 4:54pm
flipper

Naaska…
Absolutely, well said.
Worth checking Google on Alan Dersowitz (see above) on Greenwald. Ferguson nailed Snowden this morning – a traitor.
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September 16, 2014 5:00pm
Ross12

Black with a Vengeance

Are you against the “mass surveillance” that companies like Google and Amazon do while you are using your computer ??
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September 16, 2014 5:02pm
Black with a Vengeance

Yes Ross12, I am. Don’t have facebook either for the same reason.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist, i’m a conspiracy realist.
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September 16, 2014 5:21pm
Sublime

One thing we can’t count on for the next few days is a smooth ride.

Who knows what Whale and team have got on whom? Who knows when they might release it? He’s pissed and likely armed to the teeth with dirt, exposures and goodness knows what else on those who hit and ran with his electronic communications. Remember, it’s with the cops and when they’ve got their person[s], they could move in like a cut cat.

Right, off for my daily PT then a finishing jog to Countdown for some more popcorn 😀
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September 16, 2014 5:22pm
Nostradamus

Speaking of popcorn, Sublime, is it just me or are stories about Labour and David Cunliffe (both struggling to get much media traction) a bit thin on the ground today? Looking at the front pages of the NZ Herald and Stuff websites, I see one tiny photo of Cunliffe, but that’s it folks!
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September 16, 2014 5:38pm
Sublime

Nostradamus, you are quite right! I saw Cunners discussing it [I think it was the town hall flop] briefly and one story saying he wouldn’t pull out of Five Eyes if he had the choice to make such a call. So yes, very meager coverage at best today.

I must say though, credit where it’s due for Cunliffe to say something sensible when the ‘spying’ paranoia’s at record heights. He might have some wayward ideas, but he isn’t dumb enough to entertain the idea of leaving the network.
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September 16, 2014 5:50pm
publicwatchdog

Unbelievable how all the freedom-loving Kiwibloggers who were SO concerned about ‘Nanny state’ have taken to BIG BROTHER STATE ON STEROIDS like ducks to water.

Or was that SHEEP?

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 6:12pm
publicwatchdog

Did you miss this Kiwibloggers?

15 September 2014

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/15/new-zealand-gcsb-speargun-mass-surveillance/

AUCKLAND, New Zealand—The New Zealand spy agency, the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB), worked in 2012 and 2013 to implement a mass metadata surveillance system even as top government officials publicly insisted no such program was being planned and would not be legally permitted.

Documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden show that the government worked in secret to exploit a new internet surveillance law enacted in the wake of revelations of illegal domestic spying to initiate a new metadata collection program that appeared designed to collect information about the communications of New Zealanders. Those actions are in direct conflict with the assurances given to the public by Prime Minister John Key (pictured above), who said the law was merely designed to fix “an ambiguous legal framework” by expressly allowing the agency to do what it had done for years, that it “isn’t and will never be wholesale spying on New Zealanders,” and the law “isn’t a revolution in the way New Zealand conducts its intelligence operations.”

Snowden, in a post for The Intercept published today, accused Prime Minster Key of fundamentally misleading the public about GCSB’s role in mass surveillance. “The Prime Minister’s claim to the public, that ‘there is no and there never has been any mass surveillance’, is false,” the former NSA analyst wrote. “The GCSB, whose operations he is responsible for, is directly involved in the untargeted, bulk interception and algorithmic analysis of private communications sent via internet, satellite, radio, and phone networks.”

Snowden explained that “at the NSA, I routinely came across the communications of New Zealanders in my work with a mass surveillance tool we share with GCSB, called ‘X KEYSCORE.”” He further detailed that “the GCSB provides mass surveillance data into XKEYSCORE. They also provide access to the communications of millions of New Zealanders to the NSA at facilities such as the GCSB facility in Waihopai, and the Prime Minister is personally aware of this fact.”

…….
______________________________________________________________________________________________

NZ Prime Minister’s response?

Spy, deny, lie …….

What more do you expect from the Bank of America’s ‘little henchman’?

http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00CLOOCMPPFinInterests20141/2e04287ad20ee5da12a308149e59bb16d7f47ce5

Pg 30

Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)

2 Other companies and business entities

Little Nell – property investment, Aspen, Colorado
Bank of America – banking
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 6:23pm
nasska

https://www.dropbox.com/s/11ej3on1nh8qks7/Cuckoo%2012.jpg?dl=0
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September 16, 2014 6:27pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

I have this horrible image in my mind of someone sitting in a darkened bedroom, in his underpants , waiting for his “Kiwiblog enemies” to comment so he can click the (sticky) mouse button.

What should I do?
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September 16, 2014 6:29pm
publicwatchdog

Oh dear – more HARD questions that need to be answered by our NZ Prime Minister ‘spy, deny, lie’ John Key?

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/15/questions-new-zealand-mass-surveillance/

Here’s a few for starters:

Why did you inform the public that the GCSB Amendment Bill would not lead to an expansion of powers when at the same time you were planning the Speargun mass surveillance initiative?

Why was phase one of the Speargun project completed if it was, as Prime Minister Key has claimed, something that never made it past the “business case”?

Why were New Zealanders not informed about the Cortex project until the government’s hand was forced by disclosures based on documents from Snowden?

How much data is collected on a daily basis by GCSB under the Cortex project, and how does the agency ensure this data does not “incidentally” include the content or metadata of citizens’ communications?

The Cortex documents refer to the use of technology that “has been in use for some time.” What technology is this?

Is any information collected by GCSB under Cortex — or any other program that accesses internet data — shared with the NSA and/or other Five Eyes agencies through systems such as XKEYSCORE?

Does GCSB have access to XKEYSCORE and, if so, for how long has this been the case?

Does GCSB use its access to internet data streams — under initiatives like Cortex or similar — to launch active/offensive cyber operations that involve hacking computer systems to collect information?

When will you declassify documents detailing the Speargun project and showing that it was not completed?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 6:32pm
nasska

…”What should I do?”…..

That’s a tough one Nostra…..you may have to wait until the Mason Clinic do a head count. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qdaba8gaixehhk0/Wankstain%2015.jpg?dl=0
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September 16, 2014 6:35pm
renderer

Penny why parrot the views of Vinny Eastwood and other extremists. Have you never had an original thought of your own?
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September 16, 2014 6:38pm
Alan Wilkinson

“He further detailed that ‘the GCSB provides mass surveillance data into XKEYSCORE.'”

An allegation with no supporting evidence. AFAIK Snowden had no means of knowing that being just a user of the system rather than a builder of it.
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September 16, 2014 6:59pm
lolitasbrother

The electoral commission overseas vote system is a disaster, and will cost the centre right thousands of votes.
The overseas voting form is extremely resistant to downloading. The site is a confusing mish mash of hard voting papers and
electronic.
Put it this way I can download many gigabytes of CS6 the Adobe suite without trouble, I can process photos of 200 Mbyte with some slowness.
The overseas voting form will take you a long time to find,. it might be OK if you have cable running in or fibre, but in Asia the servers are at limits all the time.
If you do manage to download this pdf. You can not fill in from that pdf. You have to print it, sign, and reload back into computer. Send pretty Thai girls to Bangkok, get me printer and scanner.
But we need a car, OK buy car.

For me to vote would be a full time job and massive dollars.
Here is what you do.

1. Download the voting form, not the screeds of other rubbish, which the Electoral commission has given you to wade through, like call girls on travel site.
The electoral commission has made the site utterly and completely hopeless.

2. You have no printer so convert it to jpg and tick the boxes and sign forms by electronic.
3. This means take signatures on paper, photo them , place in the little boxes electoral commission has given you.
4. Convert back to pdf.
5. try to upload it to Electoral commission
6. Read the notice application failed.

When I get back to NZ I will keep going till everyone on the electoral Commission is sacked.
This will cost Centre right thousands of votes.
To get a vote in you need a full Bangkok Office with four girls, a new quad i7, 8 CpS units, a Dotcrim cable from NZ
to Thailand . A printer which does foolscap, a computer technician, and CS6 photoshop, good luck.
I challenge anyone to try this from an average laptop without high quaiilty unchallenged servers.

Repeat, all of the electoral commission will be sacked.
Paul Scott
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September 16, 2014 6:59pm
Jacob Cohen

Penny, have you ever tried commenting on Whaleoil, greater traffic, but probably a more challenging true blue environment than here, kiwiblog, or are you already banned there?
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September 16, 2014 7:00pm
Johnboy

She has to weld up the crack in my old Thor washing machine and knit and supply the mile of barbed wire I’m still waiting for Jacob before she can be banned from here of course! 🙂
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September 16, 2014 7:04pm
nasska

Jacob Cohen

Waterwoman only asks questions……she never answers them.

But yes. Banned from Whale’s site for a while now.
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September 16, 2014 7:04pm
cha

All together now –

Come and listen to a story
’bout a woman named Palin.
At private-sector jobs
she was always a-failin’,
Then one day
she got into the politics game,
And up through the web
came a bubblin’ fame.

Celebrity that is, money for nothin’, Tea Party!

Well, the first thing you know
ol’ Palin’s a millionaire,
Alaska voters said, “Palin move away from there,”
Said, “The screen’s where you oughtta be.”
So they gassed up the snowmachine and moved onto TV.

Reality that is: Bristol’s Bayou, pay-per-view, cage match …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2niI1kDhrE

http://www.adn.com/article/20140915/medred-anchorage-brawl-featuring-palins-just-heapin-helpin-alaska-hospitality
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September 16, 2014 7:21pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers

16 September 2014

‘Open Letter/ OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key regarding questions arising from the Edward Snowden GCSB/ NSA ‘revelations’

Dear Prime Minister,

Under the ‘urgency’ and ‘public interest’ provisions of the NZ Official Information Act, please provide answers to the following by 5pm Thursday 18 September 2014:

Please provide the following information that explains:

1) Why did you inform the public that the GCSB Amendment Bill would not lead to an expansion of powers when at the same time you were planning the Speargun mass surveillance initiative?

2) Why was phase one of the Speargun project completed if it was, as you have claimed, something that never made it past the “business case”?

3) Why New Zealanders were not informed about the Cortex project until the NZ Government’s hand was forced by disclosures based on documents from Snowden?

4) How much data is collected on a daily basis by GCSB under the Cortex project, and how does the agency ensure this data does not “incidentally” include the content or metadata of citizens’ communications?

5) What technology is this, referred to in the Cortex documents, that “has been around for some time”?

6) Is any information collected by GCSB under Cortex — or any other program that accesses internet data — shared with the NSA and/or other Five Eyes agencies through systems such as XKEYSCORE?

7) Does GCSB have access to XKEYSCORE and, if so, for how long has this been the case?

8) Does GCSB use its access to internet data streams — under initiatives like Cortex or similar — to launch active/offensive cyber operations that involve hacking computer systems to collect information?

9) When will you declassify documents detailing the Speargun project and showing that it was not completed?

_________________________________________________________

Please be advised that I have based this OIA request upon information contained in the following article:

“THE QUESTIONS FOR NEW ZEALAND ON MASS SURVEILLANCE”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/15/questions-new-zealand-mass-surveillance/

I believe that these are fair questions to which the New Zealander voting public need true and accurate answers.

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 7:35pm
Johnboy

Open letter to the PM from Johnboy:

Dear Prime Minister.

Can you please reopen Lake Alice lunatic asylum as we have discovered a high priority patient at Kiwiblog that needs locking up, not so much for her own safety but to protect the sanity of the rest of the Kiwiblog readers.

Thank you in anticipation.

Johnboy
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September 16, 2014 7:42pm
graham

I think John Key should take a leaf out of Penny’s book and just not answer any question he doesn’t want to. 🙂
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September 16, 2014 7:47pm
graham

Dear Ms Bright.

Thank you for your recent Open Letter/ OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key regarding questions arising from the Edward Snowden GCSB/ NSA revelations.

Please note that the Prime Minister is a great admirer of yours, and is particularly admiring of the way in which you answer the many questions put to you. Notwithstanding, please find the answers to your questions below.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

Yours sincerely,

Brian Smith, on behalf of the Prime Minister the Honourable John Key.
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September 16, 2014 7:52pm
Jacob Cohen

6:23
Spy, deny, lie …
What more do you expect from the Bank of America’s ‘little henchman’?

6:32
Oh dear – more HARD questions that need to be answered by our NZ Prime Minister ‘spy, deny, lie’ John Key?

7:35
Dear Prime Minister,
blah… blah… blah…
Yours sincerely,
Penny Bright

Yes, I see …
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September 16, 2014 7:54pm
Johnboy

I wonder if GCSB email spys can take early retirement, on full superannuation, after a six month secondment reading Penny’s stuff?

God knows, they would certainly deserve it! 🙂
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September 16, 2014 7:59pm
stigie

Penny will answer all your questions honestly as soon as she has paid her rates in full !~
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September 16, 2014 8:00pm
ciaron

please provide answers to the following by 5pm Thursday 18 September 2014:
Don’t ask much, do ya?… You’d be lucky if the reply says; Sure, pay your rates by the same time and you got a deal.

edit: snap everyone else….
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September 16, 2014 8:03pm
nasska

“The Ten Commandments” – Religio/conservative Version:

I. Thou shalt talk about Christian principles, but not live by them.

II. Thou shalt condemn the sick & the demented to a life of torment & indignity because you just know deep in your tummies that your God might not approve of euthanasia.

III. Thou shalt call yourself pro-life but be in favor of the death penalty.

IV. Thou political policy shall be all over the place in the way of mad women’s shit that cleave to walls.

V. Thou shalt give lip service to democracy while taking away civil
liberties.

VI. Thou shalt campaign fearlessly for the resumption of the right to use your rod to thrash small children & beat thine God into them.

VII. Thou shalt make sure fertilised eggs have full protection but should they develop into fetuses, then survive birth, they’re on their own.

VIII. Thou shalt campaign for binding referenda to control progs & unbelievers but remain ignorant of the reality that they may be used against you.

IX. Thou shalt run on a moderate platform, then enact extreme right-wing social policies as soon as possible.

X. Thou shalt use insults & puerile name calling to describe your adversaries.
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September 16, 2014 8:03pm
publicwatchdog

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/229071/dotcom-case-raised-key-hollywood-dinner

Dotcom case raised with Key at Hollywood dinner

Fri, 5 Oct 2012

News: National

John Key

Kim Dotcom and the Megaupload case was raised with Prime Minister John Key by former senator and chief executive of the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) Chris Dodd at a dinner attended by top movie moguls last night.
Studio bosses also raised their concerns that the Trans Pacific Partnership should include strong intellectual property protection provisions, Mr Key told the Herald from Los Angeles this morning.

Mr Key is on a four-day trip to Hollywood, hosted by Avatar film-maker James Cameron and Mr Cameron’s business partner Jon Landau. Mr Key is promoting New Zealand as a film-making location.

Last night at a dinner at Mr Landau’s home which Mr Key said was attended by the “glitterazi of the movie making industry in Hollywood” Mr Dodd raised the Dotcom Megaupload issue, “in passing”.

“He just essentially noted that the case was ongoing in New Zealand, and I just confirmed that and said yes. He didn’t dwell on that.”
………
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

WHERE’S THE MINUTES OF THESE ‘MEETINGS’?

Enough of these deals over dinner!

That might be how business is done in Wall Street – but it’s NO WAY to run our country!

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 8:06pm
stigie

What was that Penny….? Im deaf in that ear !~
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September 16, 2014 8:08pm
Johnboy

Just to show that we Atheists are ecumenical: 🙂

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/the-sayings-of-ian-paisley-30582269.html
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September 16, 2014 8:09pm
publicwatchdog

Ahhh – the Kiwibloggers are in a gumming frenzy 🙂

Thanks for that.

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
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September 16, 2014 8:09pm
cha

A couple more.

[…]

3 – Christianity is supposed to be all about nothing more (and nothing less!) than living a life of love, compassion, fairness, peace, and humility.

[…]

14 – The single most telling indicator of a person’s moral character has nothing to do with how they define or worship God, and everything to do with how they treat others.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistchristians/about-unfundamentalist-christians/
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September 16, 2014 8:10pm
All_on_Red

Oh ffs, this is just blatant trolling by the mad woman Bright. DPF, will you just ban her and be done with it? Enough is enough,
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September 16, 2014 8:13pm
graham

Sorry Penny, did you say something? 🙂
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September 16, 2014 8:14pm
nasska

Or as someone once well put it Cha;

……”Don’t tell me you’re a Christian. Let me figure it out. “…..
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September 16, 2014 8:16pm
Yvette

See Penny says “For the first time in my life I intend to hold my nose and PARTY vote Labour and encourage other undecided voters to do likewise.”
Silly

As Sofia pointed out, the house ordered to be sold by the court to pay rates arrears, is a straight financial deal to realize cash, so will qualify under Labour for 15% Capital Gains Tax, depending on accrued worth from Valuation Day.

Only hope for Penny is that valuation date will kick in about the same as that for the baby bonus, the explaining of which was so fucked up by Cunliffe – maternity leave or $60 per week bribe, but not both – that no one registered that no kid got anything unless born on or after April 1, 2016. … twenty bloody SIXTEEN

It will just depend on how fast Len can get his arse into gear.

Or if David Parker’s BIG TOOL works in dampening house values, forced sale may give a CGT loss, or refund, less of course about $31,000 in rates
Could be a good move, but pity for the flat mate

[and we know all this not because of XKEYSCORE, Cortex or Speargun, but Penny just running off at the pie hole 🙂 ]
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September 16, 2014 8:17pm
ross411

Hey Penny,

Can you prove the following “leaked email” is not a forgery, please? This is the same burden of proof you wanted of the Warner Brother’s email, where you wanted assumed the accusations and email were inherently true, as they fit your narrative.

Date: 2014-09-16 17:10:10 PM NZST
From: Glen Greenwald
To: Penny Bright

> Date: 2014-09-16 16:00:05 PM NZST
> From: Penny Bright
> To: Glen Greenwald
>
> GLEN
>
> I am New Zealand’s premier anti-corruption campaigner

Penny,

Whatever, who gives a shit. Please stop emailing me.

Glen.
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September 16, 2014 8:31pm
Johnboy

Je l’aime quand vous parlez sale Yvette! 🙂
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September 16, 2014 8:31pm
praxmeyer1967

I have just been and looked at the Standard website. This is the first time and to be perfectly frank I was amazed or should I say dumbfounded by the comments and articles on there. I am pretty sure everyone of them had a personal attack on John Key, and if it wasn’t him then it was Judith Collins or Cameron Slater. They weren’t trying to put across an opinion. It was just a personal rant of what they dislike about the person. It didn’t matter whether it was based on fact, innuendo or just opinion they were going for it. Now this is the first and last time I will go there but it really brought home to me that there is severe lack of understanding on the left about the economy, running a country and an atmosphere of envy. In my humble opinion John Key for one should be applauded and held up as a prime example of someone who came from humble beginnings but managed to be very successful on the world stage. Why do the left belittle this or run him down? This is just unbelievable. By way of an example why is John Key viciously attacked and David Cunliffe isn’t? David Cunliffe if I am not mistaken was from humble beginnings in South Canterbury but worked hard and become successful in his own right. However is he abused for living in a “doer upper” in Herne Bay or wherever it is? Or that his wife is a partner in a large successful law firm? No they choose to ignore this. The hypocrisy is mind numbing. I really think this says a lot more about the left and some of their followers than it does about John Key. Because he wears blue he is bad. David Cunliffe wears red so must be good. Go figure!!!
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September 16, 2014 8:31pm
Johnboy

praxmeyer. The dreadful creatures that inhabit the place (led by the beautiful Lynette) have never quite got over the fact that JK dealt to their Godhead Helen.

They have run around in a tizzy since, seeking a new Messiah. Unfortunately they chose Cunners.

Poor dears are shattered at the latest polls and the Sergeant Schultz (just a fart) bomb.

Send them some flowers perhaps? 🙂
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September 16, 2014 8:39pm
Nostradamus

Johnboy:

We can do better than that – send them some flowerpot men. Never let it be said that those on the right are stingy when it comes to the things that matter!
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September 16, 2014 8:46pm
nasska

Perhaps we could all sign & send a card to help the great unwashed in their hour(s) of sadness Nostra. I picked this one: 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/euly0iwr52um4oz/Wank%203.jpg?dl=0
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September 16, 2014 8:53pm
praxmeyer1967

penny you really don’t have a clue about the real world do you? I just read your comment above and am amazed at the naivety of it. Whilst the email that KDC is relying on is undoubtedly a fake a lot of problems are fixed, deals done or agreements reached face to face when you have a lunch with someone or play a round of golf. There is no secretary recording notes of every comment, as I can assure you some comments made on the golf course should stay there. People interact to work out solutions to problems that exist between them or between their clients and sometimes the best way to do this is face to face without the pressure of a formal meeting. In New Zealand tomorrow I could guarantee you that lawyers, accountants, bankers and their clients will be meeting having lunch or a round of golf to sort out a problem. It works. It is business. Get over it. In this case I really don’t think John Key is in the same position as he is surrounded by people all the time. He may have been able to do it in a previous life but not now. Also do you really believe that an executive would write an email like this?? It is a fake created by someone who has a vested interest in trying to bring John Key down. Penny I used to do rating sale work for councils and believe me if I was advising the Auckland council I would be saying take action and make an example of you. All these other hard working people pay their rates on time but she isn’t. In fact I would happily do it pro bono for the council if they asked me. People like you disgust me with your holier than though attitude but when it comes to your personal life you have as many skeletons the next person!!!
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September 16, 2014 8:54pm
Yvette

Trou de Pie n’est pas sale, Johnboy – si vous prenez soin où vous placez les choses

ross411
fake email :
Glenn Greenwald is spelled with two ‘n’s – Glenn, not Glen
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September 16, 2014 9:01pm
Johnboy

Ou si vous vous lavez bien les choses avant de les manger Yvette.! 🙂
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September 16, 2014 9:07pm
Black with a Vengeance

Was Key lying when he said he’d resign if the GCSB were caught conducting mass surveillance of NZ citizens ?

Given that he is a proven liar, I would say so.
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September 16, 2014 9:16pm
cha

The fantasy cabinet.

http://i.imgur.com/eOtzVZp.jpg
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September 16, 2014 9:17pm
adze

@cha

This is the only cabinet Winston wants:

http://gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/parker-spirits-cabinet-crate-and-barrel.jpg
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September 16, 2014 9:25pm
starboard

Hey scottchris..take note

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10503158/Men-warned-to-quit-bush-sex
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September 16, 2014 9:33pm
starboard

aahh..6pm at Mullaloo Beach 30K north of Perth , 24 deg , sun just about to set. Just on my second whiskey and dry.

The pool is calling…it doesn’t get much better fellas.
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September 16, 2014 9:43pm
Black with a Vengeance

You’d certainly have to bullshit now and then, like parents do with kids. Do you think there’s ever been a PM or president anywhere in the world ever, who hasn’t? I recommend you watch ‘A Few Good men’ because you want the truth? You can’t handle the truth!

Seriously..you advise me to watch a movie as proof i can’t handle the truth ?

I can handle the truth, the jandal and the remote while eating popcorn and drinking beer at the same time.

Give us some fucking credit here champ. If John Key can handle the truth and be trusted with it, so can i and probably most of the rest of NZ as well.

The truth is what you choose to believe and most of y’all seem to believe John Key when he is proven to be a habitual liar with a bad memory.

More the fool you.
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September 16, 2014 9:47pm
Yvette

Black with a Vengeance –
So who would you believe? – Cunliffe, Goff, Winston, Penelope Bright, Dotcom, Laila … Hone … ?
There’s not much offering
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September 16, 2014 9:54pm
Lindsay Addie

Someone may have already posted this but here goes:

This is from Fairfax Media:

“Fairfax Media understands that, for the first time, internal National Party polling has placed the Conservative Party on 6 per cent support – breaking the 5 per cent threshold to guarantee a place in Parliament. Sources say the figure is equal to Winston Peters’ NZ First, who has been polling as high as 8 per cent in some polls. The news will likely be welcome for National, which would gain another potential support partner and allay fears of a significant portion of wasted votes should the Conservatives not make it in.”

Anyone care to comment? If true Conservative supporters will be happy.
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September 16, 2014 9:56pm
Nostradamus

Kiwi jihadist wants to leave Syria

A Kiwi jihadist who has links with al Qaeda and has taken up arms in Syria wants to leave the war-torn country — but first needs a fresh New Zealand passport after burning his old one.
…
In 2009, Mr Daniel was arrested by Pakistan authorities while trying to gain access to an al Qaeda and Taleban stronghold close to the Afghanistan border and was subsequently subjected to travel restrictions by the New Zealand government.
…
In June this year, he entered Syria across the Turkish border.
…
He has posted photographs of himself clutching machine guns and boasted of going on “patrol” and doling “guard duty”.

Earlier this year, he also proudly displayed his burnt New Zealand passport on Facebook and declared he was on a “one-way trip” with no intention of returning home.

Now, it appears he has changed his mind.

Too late buddy.
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September 16, 2014 9:56pm
Yoza

Yvette (2,761 comments) says:
September 16th, 2014 at 9:54 pm

So who would you believe?

I would believe Glen Greenwald and Edward Snowden, neither of those two have any motive to lie to New Zealanders.
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September 16, 2014 9:58pm
Lindsay Addie

To the Kiwi jihadist,

As that great former Prime Minister Helen Clark once said:

“Diddums!”
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September 16, 2014 9:58pm
Yoza

Lindsay Addie (1,290 comments) says:
September 16th, 2014 at 9:56 pm

Someone may have already posted this but here goes:

This is from Fairfax Media:

“Fairfax Media understands that, for the first time, internal National Party polling has placed the Conservative Party on 6 per cent support – breaking the 5 per cent threshold to guarantee a place in Parliament. Sources say the figure is equal to Winston Peters’ NZ First, who has been polling as high as 8 per cent in some polls. The news will likely be welcome for National, which would gain another potential support partner and allay fears of a significant portion of wasted votes should the Conservatives not make it in.”

Anyone care to comment? If true Conservative supporters will be happy.

I’m going short on the Conserves getting 5% whenever they pay over 60c on iPredict.
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September 16, 2014 10:01pm
OneTrack

Nostradamus – “Now, it appears he has changed his mind.”

“I only went there for adventure Jihad,”

Oh my gawd. And, no, we dont want him back.
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September 16, 2014 10:03pm
Alan Wilkinson

@Yoza, both have a large ego and a desperate position to defend. They need to be seen as martyrs to a noble cause, not fools who made some big mistakes.
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September 16, 2014 10:04pm
Lindsay Addie

Yoza,

I agree they’re a decent chance now of getting to 5%.
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September 16, 2014 10:04pm
Nookin

Hi Yoza. It’s only a suspension bridge but the wire hawsers are in good nick and the planking is solid. I’m sure we can do a deal. I don’t deliver so you will have to bring your own trailor.
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September 16, 2014 10:06pm
Keeping Stock

From David Fisher:

Kim Dotcom had his time to shine and did not.

He has talked for almost three years of a conspiracy to have him extradited. For almost all that time he has claimed to have proof which would be produced in court at his extradition hearing on criminal copyright charges. He has said the conspiracy involved Prime Minister John Key and the Hollywood studios.

Two months ago, he declared the “absolute” proof would be delivered early at the “Moment of Truth” last night.

Instead, we witnessed a Mega fail.

It was a Dotbomb, a Kimplete Disaster.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11325791

Hell hath no fury like a journalist scorned 😀
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September 16, 2014 10:14pm
cha

It’s only a suspension bridge but the wire hawsers are in good nick and the planking is solid.

Can be inspected on the bottom of the Retaruke River.
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September 16, 2014 10:15pm
Nostradamus

Nookin:

Hi Yoza … I’m sure we can do a deal.

Do you accept payment in tinfoil? You could apply a conversion rate of (say) 1m of tinfoil/$.

Just think: you could insulate your whole house with all of that tinfoil!
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September 16, 2014 10:17pm
NK

Yoza,

I agree they’re a decent chance now of getting to 5%.

I will be the first to praise them if they do make it, but I’ve said consistently they won’t get there and I’ll stick with that.
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September 16, 2014 10:17pm
Lindsay Addie

Dr Michael Bassett has posted another opinion piece on his website this time poking the borax at the ‘Moment of Truth’ event and reserving some very harsh criticism of Labour and Cunliffe. I agree with his remarks about Cunliffe lacking judgement.

A funny comment is Sykes and Minto being a couple of extinct volcanoes! 🙂

http://www.michaelbassett.co.nz/articleview2.php?id=250&yh=2014&yl=2013

WHAT A FARCE!

“You have to feel sorry for John Key that he’s been subjected to so many off-stage alarums and excursions during this, the dirtiest election campaign of my lifetime. It started with Hager’s Dirty Tricks book, dropped close to the campaign, leaving insufficient time to check the details. Hager calculated on our media being sufficiently full of gullible journalists who would fall for his careful selection of stolen emails. But the public became more and more angry and all but a few journalists backed off after a week. We eventually started debating issues like tax. But in the background was Kim Dotcom’s ticking “Moment of Truth” bomb….

This time John Key was ready for the event. The quick revelation that the email was a fake purporting to show that the Prime Minister had agreed to facilitate Dotcom’s permanent residence to facilitate his extradition, left Internet Mana in a real flap. A good journalist would uncover the panic that must have enveloped Internet-Mana yesterday afternoon. They lacked a chair for their Town Hall meeting until Laila was obliged to step up at the last minute, and they now realised no more smoking guns existed. She had to preside on stage with an Australian (Assange) wanted in Sweden on sex charges; a Yank in-house guest of Putin’s beaming in from Moscow (Snowden); another American motormouth in the form of Greenwald who is a high class fanatic; a large German with criminal convictions who is wanted in the US on further charges; and a loud Canadian plot theorist lawyer (Amsterdam). Laila was the only Kiwi on stage, she who has changed parties more times than most people own pairs of underwear.

By the time the show started the big question concerned the credibility of Dotcom’s outsiders. Snowden had flown the US and his sources of info on surveillance several years ago. Assange has been holed up in a London embassy for a similar length of time. Their information is now hopelessly outdated. Snowden made claims about there being an American base in Auckland, but didn’t pinpoint it. Meaning he was only making an assertion. He clearly knows almost nothing about New Zealand. Same with Assange, Greenwald and Amsterdam.

Most of the Town Hall meeting that I watched live was a personal attack on the Prime Minister. His release of documents during the afternoon showed that a rather different system of surveillance than the one Assange and Snowden were talking about had recently been under consideration and approved by our cabinet. All of the speakers were angry to be so comprehensively upstaged. The classic for me was when Dotcom became testy with reporters over questions concerning his fake letter. Laila had told them that if they sent the letter to the Speaker accompanied by a statement that the Prime Minister had obviously lied to Parliament, then they could justify not answering media questions because the matter was sub judice. An old gig used by many a parliamentarian in a tight spot over the years. The difference being that this time the supporting letter was a fake. I can’t remember another case where this has occurred. Oh dear! How the mighty have tumbled! Dotcom’s “Moment of Truth” had been buried by bedtime. Truth was the last thing he wanted to discuss with the media.

Why has a prime minister had to endure all this during what ought to have been a routine election campaign where his stewardship of the economy, health, welfare and security should have been the principal topics of debate? The explanation is partly due to the parlous state of the Labour Party that has lost the support of almost 14% of Kiwis since David Cunliffe took over as leader a year ago. He lacks judgment. For weeks now he has played footsy with fruit cakes like Hager, and low level, politically-inspired journalists who would steal the election from under our noses. This morning Cunliffe was still at it, asking for assurances from the Prime Minister about mass surveillance that John Key had already given us, but which Cunliffe clearly hadn’t heard.

Labour is in such a dreadful state that if I were John Key tomorrow night on TV1, I would ask why the forces within any alternative government – the Greens and Winston – aren’t also on stage. No assurances from Cunliffe about policy direction retain any credibility now that Labour will clearly be such a weak force within any alternative government. The others might well demand he stand aside from leading it.

And Internet Mana that also hopes to play a support role in an alternative government has questions to answer. Hone Harawira was inconspicuous last night. Laila wants to ride on his coat tails into the House along with a rare collection of extinct volcanoes like Annette Sykes and John Minto. Can they all explain to us what unsubstantiated claims about mass surveillance and Dotcom’s fake letters have to do with the good folks of Te Tai Tokerau? Hone’s crusade about child poverty won’t be aided one little bit by the appearance of Yanks, fanatics and exiles on stage in the Town Hall last night. It’s time to get real.”
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September 16, 2014 10:18pm
Yoza

Lindsay Addie (1,292 comments) says:
September 16th, 2014 at 10:04 pm

Yoza,

I agree they’re a decent chance now of getting to 5%.

If I’m ‘going short’ it means I’m selling bets to others, essentially I am paying 40c to accept a bet when someone else is placing 60c on the Conservatives winning over 5% – the other person is ‘going long’. If the Conserves get over 5%, then whoever has ‘gone long’ gets the $1 – if they don’t make it I get the dollar.
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September 16, 2014 10:19pm
starboard

what’s the bet one of our idiotic govt departments lets that little shitbag over in Syria back into the country. He burnt his passport..that says it all.

You’re on your own loser. Suffer the consequences of your fuckwittery.
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September 16, 2014 10:28pm
Lindsay Addie

Yoza,

Oops, I should have read your post a bit more carefully. It’s getting late and the old brain is getting tired.
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September 16, 2014 10:28pm
Black with a Vengeance

I would believe Glen Greenwald and Edward Snowden, neither of those two have any motive to lie to New Zealanders.

QFT!

Correct me if i’m wrong but, no other western leader has denied or refuted Snowden’s claims of mass surveillance by 5eyes partners on their own and other’s citizenry.

Then again, probably no other western leader is as much a proven liar as John Key.

Fucked if i know why people continually trust him to be prime minister. He said he’d quit if it was found that the GCSB conducted mass surveillance on NZ citizens.

Sure we can quibble over semantics, but even ex spychief Ferguson says they hoover up pretty much everything on everybody which can then be accessed at a later date if deemed necessary.

Sounds like mass surveillance to me. Regardless of whether anyone is looking at it in real time, the data is still being collected.

John key should resign.
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September 16, 2014 10:32pm
Nookin

KS
Mr Fisher was indeed disturbed by his messiah’s backdown during the week and complete capitulation last night.
He is now discharging his vitriol by suggesting that Key has compromised security by legitimately releasing documents to establish the falsity of allegations made by mr snowden based own outdated document that he flogged from his own government.
He just does not seem to know when to give up.
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September 16, 2014 10:39pm
gump

@Lindsay Addie

“He only leases his property at Coatesville.”

—————–

Dotcom leases the Dotcom mansion, but he actually owns another property in Coatesville. I believe that his ex-wife Mona is living there.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6324781/Kim-Dotcom-bought-4m-property-in-December
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September 16, 2014 10:40pm
Fight Communism

Well I go to Vote to stop all You Traitors Liars shirkers and pretend capitalists selling NZ down the Dunny to the Commies

and get told I can’t vote because the dates on the application are 4 years old FFS

Hey I would get back more often except people in NZ and the GVt are determined to ripp me off at every turn
Low life parasites (GETTING KIND OF FN SICK OF IT)

You should experience what you people are like to deal with?

that is right still pay tax still pay rates YOU STILL RIPP me OFF
and after over 40 years being ripped off – 4 years overseas and the
SCUMMY little pretend Centre Right Traitors put another “fish hook: in their Legislation

WHAT A FFFFF N JOKE

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE FN JOKE

WIPE YOUR FAT BLOATED LAZY NATIONAL PARTY A R S ES ON THE FLAG PRETEND NATIONALS
AND SELL THE COUNTRY TO COMMUNIST CHINA

COMMIE LOVERS

AND BE DONE WITH IT SCUM

WHAT F WIT made the rule on that
no notification had to get on the phone
by the way bl bla bla de bla legislation fine print
f ar t fart

if I do not get to vote boyo

JOHN BOY I am wiping my BUM on my voting papers and sending them express
hold on people they are coming

Just need to have a big election Night Curry

SO MUCH FOR BEING BORN THERE OR HAVING A FN PASSPORT

Our once proud Nation is a FN JOKE with the Clowns in Charge

Bring back DA BASH WITH DA NATIONAL PARTY
and that is all they have done apart from preparing to sell it to their commie buddies
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September 16, 2014 10:53pm
deadrightkev

“I will be the first to praise them if they do make it, but I’ve said consistently they won’t get there and I’ll stick with that.”

And that is your prerogative NK. I have always thought Colin Craig would get up and succeed, if not in 2014, certainly in 2017, because he is a determined rooster, he is a very hard worker and knows how to unite people. NZ politics will be much improved if Craig gets over the line as expected.

Act can learn a lot of lessons from Craig. I hope Jamie sticks around if he doesn’t get in but I think it will be the end of Act if he doesn’t.
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September 16, 2014 11:33pm
Nostalgia-NZ

If Key has been happy to de-classify some documents which show no apparent mass surveillance, then surely he should release all the relevant documents, including details of the CGSB’s ‘business’ plan and how it got so far down the track along with the letters written ordering it be stopped. It’s all eventually going to come out because it is in the public interest.
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September 17, 2014 6:53am
flipper

Nos-NZ…
I agree and disagree.
I doubt that he was happy to release the documents. But how else does one prove a negative (heh, it is like proving innocence …. and… where have discussed that before?)? If he had released nothing we would have every reason to doubt his denials – except were we to accept his word without question. Thinking people require more assurance.

The business plan? Yes, withy limit6ed reactions, it should be published. And apropos that, did you notice the membership of the Cabinet Committee that considered the final proposal? Very interesting names here, are there not?

In my experience of all such matters, there is a tendency on the part of media, conspiracy theorists, most politicians, and others to denigrate New Zealand’s role and abilities in intelligence I have been to one electronic installation in the South island as an invited guests to be shown what was happening. I was conscious of the fact that I was eminently unqualified to understand whether I was being snowed(ened 🙂 ) with what I was shown and told. On the other hand NZ did not get to be part of 5 Eyes because we are clean and green. We were invited in because of WW2 links – links that were carefully developed (and our abilities proved) over the years, and have been of value to New Zealand.

Finally, all the talk about interception and listening is old hat. I recall being taken aside by a senior Cabinet Minister some 25+ years ago, in the very early days of cells (you know, the bricks) and told that all Cabinet Ministers had been warned that cell-phones were not secure, and all conversations were vulnerable to interception. He did not say “how”, but it was many years after I had been to a sophisticated US operated base in Marlborough…. 🙂
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September 17, 2014 7:36am
flipper

Nos-NZ…
Correction…

The business plan? Yes, with limited redactions ….
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September 17, 2014 7:43am
big bruv

Another day, another scandal involving the Catholic Church.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/61302219/Cocaine-cannabis-in-Vatican-car
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September 17, 2014 7:54am
Lindsay Addie

Roy Morgan poll released today:

National 46.5% +.5
Labour 24 -2
Greens 13.5 – 2.5
NZF 8% +2
Conservatives 3.5 (No change)

http://www.roymorgan.com/morganpoll/new-zealand/voting-intention-summary
end of the page (last row of numbers)

Really bad now for Labour if this is anything like accurate.
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September 17, 2014 3:52pm
flipper

Lindsay A…

So, one might ask them how all that anti J Key stuff is going.

One might also address the same question to TVNZ, Red radio, TV3, APN, Stuff, Hager et al.

Let us not get hooked on the individual numbers. The trend is far too pronounced to be anything other than a strong indicator.
The reality is, that for CminusT and the union and rainbow wallies, it will probably be worse. At which time they will need to ask whether they remain relevant. 🙂
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September 17, 2014 3:59pm
Lindsay Addie

Flipper,

They threw the whole kit and caboodle at Key and it ain’t working.

Also the DC’s ashamed to be a bloke speech has been remembered. For Labour this is a terrible result which could get worse come polling day. Green’s not going anywhere either.

Begrudgingly got to give Peters credit. He’s been smart how he’s aimed his pitch at the uncommitted voters. DC and Labour could learn something from that.

Correction National up 1.5% on the previous Morgan poll.
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September 17, 2014 4:05pm

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