General Debate 27 December 2015

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Odakyu-sen

With the death toll from drowning so much higher than the road toll (so far), I trust that the police will pull their 5-km-over-the limit- program and focus on saving lives instead of gathering funds.

Seriously though, what could be done to reduce the drowning rate? Make life jackets compulsory when swimming?
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December 27, 2015 8:02am
Southern Raider

Simple
– stop idiots from owning boats that cost $2000 and they think they can squeeze 5 adults on them, but they can’t bother doing a basic boating course and can’t or won’t buy life jackets and a VHF radio
– stop parents taking kids to the beach, lake or river unless they are actually going to watch them
– ban foreigners from gathering shell fish and rock fishing
– ban foreigners from swimming at surf beaches when they have never been in the open sea
– bring pools back to primary schools
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December 27, 2015 8:13am
billmurray

Well xmas has come and gone, I still intend to vote for the present flag !!!!!!!.
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December 27, 2015 8:15am
SGA

billmurray at 8:15 am

Well xmas has come and gone, I still intend to vote for the present flag !!!!!!!.

You do that, billmurray – hell, there’s a resolution just waiting for you come New Years 🙂
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December 27, 2015 8:22am
B.L.Zeebub

It is called natural selection, if you are too thick to have the spatial awareness to keep yourself and others around you safe or are too lazy to supervise your children, you quickly remove your DNA from the gene pool.
With an increasing population it will happen more often and no amount of nanny statism will reverse the trend ,in fact it would more likely increase the rate as people learn to take less and less responsibility for their own safety.
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December 27, 2015 8:26am
stephieboy

Southern Raider , a vast regulatory regime who appear to be advocating enforced by whom and how ?The drowning accidents this holiday season so far had little to do with boats or launches nor were they , I understand ,foreigners gathering she’ll fish etc.

All schools in our district have swimming pools.Nothing much can be done if people don’t observe basic safety rules such as swimming between the flags at surf beaches .You fish off the rocks at your own peril etc.
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December 27, 2015 8:28am
Southern Raider

Stephie the public either stop being feed crap from the media on drownings who won’t report on the facts or we need to stop these idiots.

How is it you need a licence to operate a car but not a boat?

Have you not seen Piha Rescue and the idiots they pull out of the water. Funding for Surf Lifesaving NZ should go into saving people from real accidents not people who get hit by the first wave about two metres from the sand, panic and almost drown
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December 27, 2015 8:38am
mikenmild

As with all such things, we need to consider long-term trend when discussing the road toll or drowning rates. There will always be short-term spikes (and short-term lulls – like a holiday weekend road toll of zero). Looking at the trends would give more confidence that the best policy choices are being made.
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December 27, 2015 8:41am
flipper

Remind me. Who was it that appointed Devoy?

Devoy (now Hawkes) was once a great squash scrapper from the wrong side of the tracks in Rotorua.

But CAM SLATER very properly nails her this morning. If she has a problem, there is only one way out of the hole – fire the left wing wallies that run her office under Rutherford:

Photo/ Facebook

Photo/ Supplied
The disgusting, disrespectful actions of David Fisher and the NZ Herald

Selection_047

fisher

Heather du Plessis-Allan breaks at least 5 laws, claims public interest to try and get off

Andrew Little

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The former squash player is unfit for office

by Cameron Slater on December 27, 2015 at 8:30am

Dame Susan Devoy hand-wringing friend of MUslims
Dame Susan Devoy, hand-wringing friend of Muslims

Check out this quote from Dame Susan Devoy:

“The people I work with have two sorts of cultures. You know, they’re Muslim Kiwis and they’re Kiwi Kiwis.”

It’s the Kiwi Kiwis, the Pakeha with only one culture, who send the vast bulk of the complaints to her office.

As, Dan one of our commenters says:

So let me get this right. There are Muslim Kiwis and there are Kiwi Kiwis. And those are the two cultures she works with. Just Muslim and Pakeha Kiwis. No Maori kiwis then?

News to me. The hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Never mind about the Chinese Kiwis, the Korean Kiwis, it is all about a political ideology, masquerading as a religion, not a race, she is the Race Relations Conciliator not the Relgious Relations Conciliator.

And how utterly retarded is she to moan and complain about so-called Pakeha with only one culture…we are the majority, of course there will be a majority of complaints, we are the ones suffering degradation of our rights and our culture by people like Susan Devoy. Does our culture not matter? Does she only care about their culture?

Muslims make up a tiny minority in New Zealand and the fact that she is only dealing with them and “Kiwi Kiwis” suggest that for such a tiny minority they are making an awful lot of complaints.

But she goes on…

So her job began, as she now says, with a baptism of fire. The Mana Party wanted her sacked before she started. The Green Party said her Treaty of Waitangi views were embarrassing. Liberals wanted her blood.

But Devoy has changed.

Now she’s calling on Prime Minister John Key to build bridges with local Muslims.

“Whenever there’s a terrorist attack Muslims here get it in the neck,” she says.

“You talk to people from the local communities – they’re very clear they’re being targeted.

“And you can’t go to the police and say, I was racially abused today, somebody leaned out the window and told me to go home or whatever or called me a terrorist.

“These things are on the rise and they’re happening more and more often.”

She wants Key to visit a local mosque.

“The symbolic gesture of actually engaging with these communities is – it’s not just symbolic, it’s extraordinarily significant.

“Because they are Muslim Kiwis who came here and live here and do everything they possibly can to keep this peaceful, harmonious country.

“But I think they feel, like any community would, somewhat marginalised and isolated and unconsidered.”

Want to stop getting it in the neck? Stop your adherents from committing acts of terrorism…simple really. Muslims in NZ aren’t being targeted…we are…with acts of terrorism against our way of life and our freedoms.

We are expected to show and act with tolerance…towards a completely intolerant ideology. This woman is as dangerous as she is mad.

Devoy goes to interfaith meetings of religious leaders at the Avondale mosque in Auckland but “it’s always the same people…

“If the Prime Minister went to the mosque on an open day I’m sure a whole lot of other New Zealanders would go.”

Oh piss off. Why should he go to a mosque, no one is demanding he go to any other ‘church’.

I have zero interest in Islam, mosques or anything to do with a misogynist, anti-freedom, control freak ideology. She shouldn’t either, instead she is shoving down our throats.

Where are her statements against the ongoing terrorism against Jews, including in NZ? Where are her joint statements with the Jewish Council decrying attacks on Jews in Paris and in Israel?

Where are her statements condemning massacres of Yazidi, and Christians in Syria?

She needs to stop carping on about Islam, Islam is not a race. She needs to stop pandering to them, and start sticking up for gays, women and any other group that is persecuted under Islam.

The woman is unfit for the office she holds.

Amen
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December 27, 2015 8:50am
wiseowl

What is it with people who can’t get that Islam is NOT a RACE?

Devoid needs to go.
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December 27, 2015 9:00am
Manolo

A savage speaks:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12069924/Islamic-State-leader-Baghdadi-goads-West-in-rare-audio-statement.html

The leader of the self-declared Islamic State issued a defiant message to the West, warning “crusaders” not to dare fight on his turf.

In a rare public statement – his first in seven months – Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi said Western countries had “learned from” previous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“Crusaders and Jews don’t dare to come on the ground because they were defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan,” he said in a 23-minute long audio message released through an Isil-run internet account.
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December 27, 2015 9:03am
Awww C-mon

Rodders Hide, predicting a National/Green government. It wouldn’t be that much of a surprise really and the majority of the policy isn’t that different.

Imagine the angst and gnashing of teeth amongst the hardcore! Poor Mossey, Gobby and Blazeoffuckwit would freak

Edit, forgot link

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11566472
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December 27, 2015 9:03am
Manolo

Another display of supine incompetence by brainless Dame Devoy, who should de sacked immediately.
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December 27, 2015 9:05am
Hugh Pavletich

‘Christmas Is Dead’: Hyperinflated Venezuelans Face Holiday Without Light, Food & Hope … Zerohedge

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-26/christmas-dead-hyperinflated-venezuelans-face-holiday-without-lights-food-hope
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December 27, 2015 9:07am
Manolo

Griff will be horrified by the hypocrisy of this AGW supporter:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/dec/26/clive-james-climate-change-conference-cop21

With the fate of the world at stake, one is confident that the money will be spent wisely. Prudent delegates, aware that their frequent-flyer carbon footprint is already questionable, take care not to be thought of as living it up. But sometimes the excitement is too much. During her no doubt vital stay in Paris, Kelly O’Shanassy, CEO of the Australian Conservation Foundation, hit the champagne. As every new flute released its bubbles of CO2, she was so thrilled, she took a picture and sent it to her friends. These sparkling Facebook posts, alas, have since been deleted.
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December 27, 2015 9:10am
itstricky

Imagine the angst and gnashing of teeth amongst the hardcore! Poor Mossey, Gobby and Blazeoffuckwit would freak

Just as likely as 50% of KBers will gnash teeth as they seem to think, for some reason, that National has policies that are poles apart from Labour & Greens.

I thought name calling was immature?
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December 27, 2015 9:10am
peterwn

Odakyu-sen – These are Government funding matters, not internal police matters. As I have pointed out numerous times here and on WOBH, the Transport Agency is voted a specific sum by Government for road traffic enforcement which is then passed to the Police to do the actual enforcement. The Transport Agency is involved in overall strategy via legislation and no doubt top level coordination with the Police. The Police has to in turn show that it is spending the money on road traffic enforcement and not on catching burglars (or wayward boaties).

It could be that there is a case for beefed up enforcement of leisure boat activities possibly by the police, council employees, etc. This would include the hoary old matter of whether boats (especially power boats) should be registered and bear registration numbers. arguably, while there are continuing stupid incidents involving boaties, they have not reached the level of concern as to warrant heavier enforcement than at present (harbour masters’ staff and police especially the Deodar and Lady Elizabeth operations).
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December 27, 2015 9:12am
Longknives

Devoy’s call for more New Zealanders to ‘visit Mosques’ is downright bizarre!
Why?? Where is her call for New Zealanders to visit Catholic Churches? Hindu Temples? Synagogues??

I’m beginning to wonder if Devoy has spent so much time around this twisted Death Cult that she has converted to Islam?
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December 27, 2015 9:16am
stephieboy

Manolo, have they had an industrial revolution in Indonesia ? Do you seriously believe France has never had one ?

Southern Raider,

“How is it you need a licence to operate a car but not a boat?”

There is merit in your idea of boaties requiring an operator licence with emphasis on understanding safety rules. The problem is who will enforce it ? Possibly coast guard and Maritime police , but both appear to have their hands full and there simply not enough of them. Also motar vehicle drivers licence doesn’t necessarily stop foolishness on the roads !

In nutshell ,you can’t legislate against stupidity !
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December 27, 2015 9:16am
Happychappy

I see minto and his pea brain followers are not happy that their fat buddie has lost his case and are now calling the judge corrupt and doing what John Key has requested.
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December 27, 2015 9:17am
B.L.Zeebub

Maybe Devoy should issue an edict that all New Zealanders should visit a library and read more than one book.
The sooner superstition, of whatever flavour,dies a natural death the better off we will all be.
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December 27, 2015 9:25am
Longknives

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/75467982/happy-toddler-dies-in-christmas-day-drowning-tragedy

The three year old ‘had been gone an hour’ when family started looking for him…
Jesus Christ! I wouldn’t let a toddler out of my sight for a single minute at the Beach.
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December 27, 2015 9:27am
stephieboy

I think we need to understand that Dame Devoy’s brief is not confined exclusively to race relations as her office does comes under the ambit of the Human Rights commission . This does include other areas such as ethncity and religious beliefs,

“In this section you’ll learn about our work to promote positive race relations and encourage all Kiwis to treat each other with respect, dignity and mana irrespective of race, ethnicity or faith.”

https://www.hrc.co.nz/your-rights/race-relations-and-diversity/race-relations/

Of course as most Muslims here are usually from either South Asian , SE Asian or Middle Eastern ,their darker skins can and does make them also subject to racial abuse and taunts ,as we sometimes see here on KB.
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December 27, 2015 9:34am
Kimbo

@ Longknives

The three-year-old had been playing with several of his cousins and other children at Ocean Beach, near Waimarama, while his parents and other family members set up volleyball nets, and played a few games…

…Jimmy’s mum had been looking after her two others sons – an 18-month-old and two-year-old – and the family did not think he was in danger at any point.

“[Jimmy Atilua Laulu] was playing together with the little kids and everyone was surrounding him.”

Another uncle, Eli Ili, said it took more than an hour for emergency services to arrive, and there was no coverage on their mobile phones…

So there is the answer to Odakyu-sen’s question at the top of the thread – we need faster ambulances and better cell phone coverage.

Alternatively, sub-cultures where adults can’t properly organise themselves to ensure the safety of children…because they are still essentially children themselves need to grow up and transform. But don’t worry, the family church will have a really beautiful funeral. They are far superior to Palagis when it comes to fare-welling the dead and dealing with the grief.
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December 27, 2015 9:38am
kowtow

stephie ,wrong as usual…..

“The drowning accidents this holiday season so far had little to do with boats or launches nor were they , I understand ,foreigners gathering she’ll fish etc.”

http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/368130/child-dies-central-otago-boating-tragedy
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December 27, 2015 9:40am
starboard

They would of been chucking back their swappa crate lion red Longknives and too busy stuffing their faces with KFC to notice.
Poor little bastard.
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December 27, 2015 9:41am
Fletch

Andrew C. McCarthy asks Muslims whether there is any offence against Islam that would make them join ISIS. No? If not, then why is that the excuse Washington uses?

Let me ask you a question.

Let’s say you are an authentically moderate Muslim. Perhaps you were born into Islam but have become secularist. Or perhaps you consider yourself a devout Muslim but interpret Islam in a way that rejects violent jihad, rejects the concept that religious and civic life are indivisible, and rejects the principle that sharia’s totalitarian societal framework and legal code must be imposed on the state. Let’s just take that as a given: You are no more inclined toward terrorism than any truly peaceful, moderate, pro-democratic non-Muslim.

So let me pop the question: Is there any insulting thing I could say, no matter how provocative, or any demeaning video I could show you, no matter how lurid, that could convince you to join ISIS?

Mind you, I am not asking whether, upon my insulting and provoking you, you would ever want to have anything to do with me again. I am asking whether there is anything that could be said or done by me, or, say, Donald Trump, or Nakoula Basseley Nakoula — the video producer (Innocence of Muslims) whom Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama tried to blame for the Benghazi massacre — that could persuade you to throw up your hands and join the jihad? Is there anything so profoundly offensive to Islam that we could conjure up that would make a truly moderate, peaceful Muslim sign up for mass murder? Torching and beheading? Killing children? Participating in systematic rape as a weapon of war?

I didn’t think so.

Yet, understand, that is what Washington would have you believe. Whether it is Barack Obama sputtering on about how Guantanamo Bay drives jihadist recruitment, or Hillary Clinton obsessing over videos (the real one by Nakoula that she pretended caused terrorism in Libya, and the pretend ones about Donald Trump that she claims have Muslims lined up from Raqqa to Ramadi to join ISIS), you are to believe violent jihad is not something that Muslims do but that Americans incite.

MORE – http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428967/islam-terrorism-jihad-support-provoke
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December 27, 2015 9:42am
brett68

Kiwi blog desperately needs a separate old man rants thread.
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December 27, 2015 9:57am
stephieboy

Fletch , pretty inane suff there. The same could be applied offence to the Catholic Church and those joining say the IRA or Real IRA or Basque Separatist terrorists groups. Furthermore Islam does not have unified administrative structure like the Vatican .

The National Review’s comments about Benghazi etc are both misleading and highly spurious . Clinton and Obama have not blamed Nakoula exclusively for the attacks .
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December 27, 2015 9:58am
Mark

I drove from Wellington to Auckland on Christmas eve, madness I agree but family get together are all to rare and Christmas is as good an excuse as any. I can not recall encountering worse driver behaviour ever. It was insanity and the 250 odd accidents over the ensuing 48 hours were completely understandable. We were turned back heading into Taupo because of an accident and hand to go back to Turangi and up the western side of the lake. There was a long line of traffic and a young woman in a white hatchback decided she was going to pass everyone on the road making passing manouvres on double yellow lines twice that we saw.

Then we got behind a woman driving at 80k slowing at times to 60k had a question of 30 cars. When I passed here she had one hand on the wheel holding a cup of tea chatting to her passenger oblivious to the hold up she was creating.

So I have no problem with the speed limit or. The cops on the road. Our overall driver behaviour is so bad that the police have little option.
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December 27, 2015 9:58am
Kimbo

…just like this family had a really beautiful funeral:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/69924982/Ashburton-deaths-a-tragic-terrible-accident-says-top-cop

…and this one. Hey, these guys even played the guitar and prayed while their mum died, rather than run out into the road and find someone with a phone to call 111. How very spiritual:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/muliagas_to_sue.html
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December 27, 2015 9:59am
Kimbo

Ever been to a funeral among that particular community? Very revealing of all that caused the deaths in the first place. Families getting themselves into debt buying pigs and giving gifts in gratitude to the important guests who turned up…and lots of kids, (and youth and adults for that matter) staring out with big brown brain-washed eyes while interminable speeches drag on…all part of the collective socialisation process which ensures whatever personal initiative and responsibility the little ones would ever have is drummed out of them so they are puppets of the wishes of…the family/community/church.

Sorry, usually wouldn’t rant, but there is a reason a three year old child wanders off at a beach and no one notices for an hour. It’s because “someone else” in the “group” was looking after him while they all had a good time, instead of one person in particular owning the responsibility. And until someone calls that for what it is, then deaths like it will continue.

But then causing offense is no doubt the greater sin and evil to be eradicated, so I look forward to some apologist usually a church minister, mouthing pieties such as “the family is grieving and it is not right to say these things”. Fine, you rate hurt feelings more important than kids dying…
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December 27, 2015 10:09am
Manolo

Instead, Hawaii should leave it to Kenya:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hawaii-cant-seem-to-name-anything-after-native-son-obama/2015/12/25/01f09e22-a40d-11e5-b53d-972e2751f433_story.html

Since 2009, Hawaii’s politicos have sought to name two schools, an abandoned lot, a scenic overlook and two state holidays after Obama. An effort to put the 1960s-era cinder-block apartment building — where he lived — on the National Historic registry also fell short.
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December 27, 2015 10:11am
starboard

“Kiwi blog desperately needs a separate old man rants thread.”

There is one..its called GD..
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December 27, 2015 10:12am
Richard

Mark I found the same driving from Christchurch to Tekapo and back again this week. I seemed to be on the road with other drivers who must have had a death wish to kill not just themselves and their family but take out another family as well. Overtaking 5-6 metres before a blind corner, constant overtaking on double yellow lines. At one point a driver came within about 2-3cm of a fuel truck coming the other way while doing an insane overtaking move past a tractor on a double yellow line. Utter madness.

I have no problem with whatever measures the Police think are necessary to stop this insanity. Very glad we’re back home safe and sound.
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December 27, 2015 10:15am
Awww C-mon

Itstricky “I thought name calling was immature?”

Absolutely it is, but so am I so no problem, and yes you right those with far/further right leanings would equally distraught.
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December 27, 2015 10:24am
Manolo

Israel will strike back very hard if the barbarians attack:
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/264255-isis-leader-threatens-israel-west-in-audio-statement

He also threatened ISIS attacks in Israel, saying the terror network would attempt to establish a stronghold there as well.

“Jews, soon you shall hear from us in Palestine, which will become your grave,” Baghdadi reportedly said.
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December 27, 2015 10:28am
doggone7

You have to give Susan decoy some credit – she got Cameron Slater writing, “I have zero interest in Islam, mosques or anything to do with a misogynist, anti-freedom, control freak ideology.” ?
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December 27, 2015 10:31am
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

“In this section you’ll learn about our work to promote positive race relations and encourage all Kiwis to treat each other with respect, dignity and mana irrespective of race, ethnicity or faith.

…Of course as most Muslims here are usually from either South Asian , SE Asian or Middle Eastern ,their darker skins can and does make them also subject to racial abuse and taunts ,as we sometimes see here on KB.

As distinct (to quote you) “of course” from the, say the yellow-skinned Chinese ethnic communities of Indonesia who suffer occasional pogroms in the back-blocks of Indonesia because they are Chinese…and often Christian as well.

Last pogrom in New Zealand? Ummm…Maybe Jonah Lomu’s Tongan cousin getting his head hacked off by a group of Samoans in the Otara shopping mall, 1988?

A few months ago we had a stupid fool of an archdeacon preach a cookie-cutter sermon in our church which she inflicts on a number of congregations on her circuit. Warbling on like a white middle-class idiot about “racial injustice…millions murdered in World War II”…to a congregation made up, like most Auckland schools, work places and community groups of some 20 different ethnicities. Yeah, given our appalling recent record in race relations, and the way Manolo and kowtow engage in (to quote you again) “racial abuse and taunts”, they are likely to incite a national crusade against Muslims, Indeed, I suspect see we are on the very cusp of an out-break of racial violence. //
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December 27, 2015 10:38am
Peter

Left child unsupervised near water for over an hour.

What could possibly go wrong?
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December 27, 2015 10:40am
sam green

Starboard @ 9:41

That comment is insanely cruel.
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December 27, 2015 10:44am
Manolo

The political establishment starts to rally around Rubio (against Trump and Cruz):
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/264264-gowdy-to-endorse-rubio-report

Rep. Trey Gowdy is expected to endorse Sen. Marco Rubio for president when he campaigns with him in Iowa next week, Townhall.com reported Saturday.
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December 27, 2015 10:47am
Manolo

The only thing missing was the chant Allahu akbar:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3374765/Armed-police-called-Glades-Shopping-Centre-reports-man-holding-machete.html

A group of knife-wielding teenagers sparked fears of an ISIS-style terrorist attack on a busy London shopping centre forcing shocked bargain hunters to run for their lives trampling over small children to escape the area.
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December 27, 2015 10:54am
stephieboy

Kimbo, see how you like it if your family and yourself are subjected to ongoing racial abuse , taunts and insults as well as discrimination in employment and housing ?
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December 27, 2015 10:54am
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

Kimbo, see how you like it if your family and yourself are subjected to ongoing racial abuse , taunts and insults as well as discrimination in employment and housing ?

What makes you assume we are not?
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December 27, 2015 10:55am
Manolo

@stephieboy: But you are the first person to call out to people like this humble darkie as “honorary white”, among other gems, aren’t you?
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December 27, 2015 11:00am
stephieboy

Kimbo. , you’re stinging critical comments about Dame Susan Devoy’s office made me reasonably assume that your family and yourself are not !
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December 27, 2015 11:03am
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

Kimbo. , you’re stinging critical comments about Dame Susan Devoy’s office made me reasonably assume that your family and yourself are not !

You assume wrong.

I think Devoy’s office does more harm than good. New Zealanders do not need to be held by the hand and told how to assimilate different ethnicities among us. We have been doing it, in the main highly successfully for generations. No matter what the law or the policies decreed by the likes of the Race Relations Office, any immigrant group, irrespective of race, religion, language, ethnicity and creed can ultimately fit in and find a place in this nation…as long as they understand there is a social transaction, and their social acceptance must not be assumed, instead it is earned. And I can assure you, the “earning” is not onerous – work hard, get a job, be a good neighbour, don’t demand or expect special rights and privileges, don’t isolate yourself from others, learn English, get yourself educated, learn local customs and adopt/or at the very least be sensitive to them, don’t be over-represented in welfare or police/justice statistics, don’t act like a victim. That is about it. Which, compared to many shit holes in the world where you can suffer death on account of your accent, clothing or appearance, makes this place paradise.

Ultimately I agree with Michael King’s essential summation:

“And most New Zealanders, whatever their cultural backgrounds are good-hearted, practical, commonsensical and tolerant. Those qualities are part of the national cultural capital that has in the past saved the country from the worst excesses of chauvinism and racism seen in other parts of the world. They are as sound a basis as any for optimism about the country’s future”

So Devoy, or more particularly her office, can go…disband itself.
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December 27, 2015 11:15am
B.L.Zeebub

learn the rule: your / you’re

your is a possessive adjective, indicating ownership of something
That is your sock.
Where is your potato?
you’re is a contraction (combination) of you and are
Do you know what you’re doing?
You’re stupid.
The two are not interchangeable.
Getting it wrong makes you look stupid. And ugly.

FFS.
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December 27, 2015 11:19am
Biscuit

Curious that Devoy is in the news so often of late…

Me, I get suspicious whenever a public figure pokes his/her head up and says something controversial.

I always think (and this works both for politicians and radio DJ types) ‘Why is he/she saying this now? Is there a poll/ratings survey about to be done? Is he/she just trying to put his/her name into the arena lest we think he/she is doing nothing?’

You’d a-l-m-o-s-t think Devoy is up for her six month review and is desperate for favourable scores in the ‘Do people know you are the Race Relations Conciliator?’ and ‘How many square inches of newspaper Letters to the Editor did you feature in this week?’ categories.

There’ll be no assessment, natch, re ‘Have you actually achieved anything?’
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December 27, 2015 11:32am
kowtow

richard, mark.

But that’s the point , plod is not addressing the bad driving or the bad drivers. They have a fixation with pinging people doing a few k over the posted limit.

So you decide to overtake someone doing 90 on the inside lane , ypu briefly exceed the limit to quickly and safely pass on the outside ……..what sense does it make for plod to be waiting at passing lanes to do you for going at 110 – 115 while briefly overtaking/

meanwhile accidents are happening while idiots x lines, use their phones , etc

“It’s depressing to hear the police asking motorists to drive safely, when all available evidence suggests the highest risk groups are deaf to road safety messages. It’s also depressing hearing the police suggesting that speeding by the average driver is the problem when in fact 80% of the road toll occurs below the speed limit.”

“If the road toll had gone down this weekend, the police would have taken the credit and thanked motorists. Now that the road toll has risen, the police will express their disappointment. What the police won’t do is admit their basic strategies are flawed.”

http://dogandlemon.com/media/time-rethink-road-safety-says-campaigner
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December 27, 2015 11:41am
Maggy Wassilieff

@B.L.Zeebub 11:19

Good stuff.
How about one bit of grammar/day?

(Lots of stuff to choose from……. their/there; too/to; would have/would of/would’ve (see Starboard 9:41am).
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December 27, 2015 11:43am
Kimbo

@ Biscuit

…You’d a-l-m-o-s-t think Devoy is up for her six month review and is desperate for favourable scores in the ‘Do people know you are the Race Relations Conciliator?’ and ‘How many square inches of newspaper Letters to the Editor did you feature in this week?’ categories.

There’ll be no assessment, natch, re ‘Have you actually achieved anything?’…

Exactly. A good example, in government especially of, “if you want to encourage something…” (in this case a raison d’être for the Race Relations Conciliator’s office) “…then incentivise it”.

The cascade of trivial complaints and/or backlash responses that dominate its national media profile indicates its time, if such a thing ever existed, has long since past.
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December 27, 2015 11:53am
Don the Kiwi

Maggy

(Lots of stuff to choose from……. their/there; too/to; would have/would of/would’ve (see Starboard 9:41am).

cha had by far the best response I’ve seen to this issue.

cha (5,516 comments) says:
December 26th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
heh ..getting all fucking pedantic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXGj4IZUoAAZe0R.jpg:large
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December 27, 2015 11:54am
Maggy Wassilieff

@B.L.Zeebub

If you do provide us with some more Grammar 101, you might want to add a gentle explanation of big words such as “possessive” and “adjective”.

@Don the Kiwi…… agreed.
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December 27, 2015 11:58am
Biscuit

Indeed, Kimbo.

I see you’re a 4202-comments citizen in Kiwiblog.

[B.L.Zeebub will be purring that I got the ‘you’re’ bit correct!]

Me, I’m still almost a virgin with under 200 as of this jotting.

How do you do the nifty quote insertion that you effected in your post of 11.53am.

Doubtless this will be something super-easy but I’m a novice, ha. Be gentle with me!
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December 27, 2015 11:58am
Kimbo

@ Maggy Wassilieff

How about one bit of grammar/day?

I was thinking about my above post at 11:15pm, when I responded to stephieboy:

You assume wrong.

…instead of

You assume incorrectly.

However, just as I often use words and phrases such as “Nope”, and “On ya”, I take that to be a deliberate departure from correct grammar and syntax for emphasis (is there are name for that, btw?)

So I shouldn’t fall afoul of the grammar police. Or at least that is my plea in mitigation.
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December 27, 2015 12:00pm
Kimbo

@ Biscuit

Indeed, Kimbo.

I see you’re a 4202-comments citizen in Kiwiblog.

[B.L.Zeebub will be purring that I got the ‘you’re’ bit correct!]

Me, I’m still almost a virgin with under 200 as of this jotting.

How do you do the nifty quote insertion that you effected in your post of 11.53am.

Doubtless this will be something super-easy but I’m a novice, ha. Be gentle with me!

Not at all – with comments like yours at 11:58 you’ll almost be as popular as Johnboy, dime and AgentBallSack (where is ABS, btw?!).

Um, try sticking text in between the following: –

Try with blockquote in the brackets at the start, and then blockquote after the slash at the end…for an indented quote

and put an i in…for italics

and …and an s for crossing out script.

Anyone know any other toys to show Biscuit?
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December 27, 2015 12:05pm
Biscuit

Kimbo, 12.00pm.

I believe that is called ‘hyperbation’ – the use, especially for emphasis, of a word order/usage other than the expected or usual one…

Winston Churchill’s brilliant ‘this is the sort of thing up with which I will not put’ springs to mind…
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December 27, 2015 12:06pm
Kimbo

@ Biscuit

Try again!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockquote_element#See_also

and us an ‘i’ for italics in the brackets, and a ‘s’ for crossing out the text
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December 27, 2015 12:14pm
Don the Kiwi

“However, just as I often use words and phrases such as “Nope”, and “On ya”, I take that to be a deliberate departure from correct grammar and syntax for emphasis (is there are name for that, btw?)”

As far as I’m aware, Kimbo, this is simply the ‘Vernacular – English as she is spoke’ – I seem to recall from my school days, somewhere back in the foggy mists of time – 1950’s. 🙂
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December 27, 2015 12:22pm
Kimbo

@ Maggy Wassilieff

If you do provide us with some more Grammar 101, you might want to add a gentle explanation of big words such as “possessive” and “adjective”.

Hmm. You didn’t ask me, but

possessive: (also known as the genitive) nouns and pronouns that indicate ‘ownership/belonging/possession’., e.g., “Maggy’s ability to assess scientific research is better than Griff’s“, usually indicated by ‘s at the end of the noun or pronoun.

adjective: a word that qualifies/explains/gives more information about a noun or pronoun.

Joking aside, one of the many reasons a second language should be on the New Zealand school curriculum is that you also learn theoretical and practical grammar as an additional benefit. My formal knowledge (or to state as the possessive, Kimbo’s formal knowledge) …of grammar was effectively non-existent until I had to learn another language at tertiary level.
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December 27, 2015 12:24pm
Biscuit

Will do, Kimbo (12.14 pm) … but not just yet.

I am shortly taking the extended family’s two littlies swimming and am swotting up on How To Be A Responsible Adult.101 before we go.

It seems that ‘Watch the little b*ggers even more closely than if you have your fave chocolates within their eyeshot’ is the recommended route.

‘Stay away from rocks and rips’ seems a bit TOO advanced given that it’s just the local paddling pool we’ll be frequenting but, hey, I will keep my eyes peeled, eh?

Hope I don’t look TOO daft sitting beside 6 inches of water with my high-visibility life-jacket on!

Am leaving my (non-existent) boat behind…

And I’m not even THINKING (much) of taking along any Bourbon and Coke…
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December 27, 2015 12:25pm
Kimbo

Will do, Kimbo (12.14 pm) … but not just yet.

I am shortly taking the extended family’s two littlies swimming and am swotting up on How To Be A Responsible Adult.101 before we go.

It seems that ‘Watch the little b*ggers even more closely than if you have your fave chocolates within their eyeshot’ is the recommended route.

‘Stay away from rocks and rips’ seems a bit TOO advanced given that it’s just the local paddling pool we’ll be frequenting but, hey, I will keep my eyes peeled, eh?

Hope I don’t look TOO daft sitting beside 6 inches of water with my high-visibility life-jacket on!

Am leaving my (non-existent) boat behind…

And I’m not even THINKING (much) of taking along any Bourbon and Coke…

Yep. But then you are obviously not white trailer trash. Which confirms, as per my prior rant, that (sub) culture was not entirely absent from the tragic death of that poor wee three year old.

Which raises the question, why, if certain cultures are disadvantaged by the prevailing hegemony, can’t they also be in part regressive and inappropriate and in need of updating.

Don’t get me wrong – if you had to live on a small island with limited resources and with a comparatively small community for many generations, then Polynesian life as practiced in the islands is pretty well perfect. But go to a different context with lots more complexity hazards, and there is an obvious need to stress individual responsibility and pre-planning than waiting for a few elders to make all the final decisions.
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December 27, 2015 12:33pm
Paul Marsden

This from the Daily Mirror

” The super-rich ruler who stones gays, now bans Christmas: Sultan of Brunei threatens Muslims who celebrate it with up to five years in prison while Christians must keep theirs secret ”

Susan Devoy, New Zealand’s Christmas Grinch, will be applauding Brunei’s move.
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December 27, 2015 1:09pm
stephieboy

Paul Marsden , when did Dame Susan Devoy advocate the stoning of gays and suppressing Christians ?

Kimbo, and I believe Dame Susan would not argue with the late Michael King’s remarks . Nor would I for that matter.However I think Michael King like Dame Susan would draw the line with e.g desecrating Jewish and Muslim graves ,Synagogues and Mosques .

You happen to differ ?
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December 27, 2015 1:27pm
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

Kimbo, and I believe Dame Susan would not argue with the late Michael King’s remarks . Nor would I for that matter.However I think Michael King like Dame Susan would draw the line with e.g desecrating Jewish and Muslim graves ,Synagogues and Mosques .

You happen to differ ?

Stop being a trolling fuck wit. And yes, in context you deserved that for your variation on “have you stopped beating your wife?”! Care to give me examples of the numerous such desecrations that occurred in New Zealand…before the office of the Race Relations Conciliator was set up? Thought not. So care to have another go justifying its existence to solve an essentially non-existent problem?
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December 27, 2015 1:38pm
starboard

sam green (339 comments) says:
December 27th, 2015 at 10:44 am
Starboard @ 9:41

“That comment is insanely cruel.”

What ? The fact that they were drinking lion red? Its a disgusting drop, I prefer Heineken, but each to their own.
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December 27, 2015 1:38pm
stephieboy

Kimbo, Are suggesting those who daubed Nazi insignia on these Jewish graves were directly influenced by the presence of Race Relations Act and office ?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10841595

Get off there grass !

Again have you persoanlly been a victim of race abuse and taunts ?
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December 27, 2015 1:48pm
SGA

Kimbo at 12:33 pm

Which raises the question, why, if certain cultures are disadvantaged by the prevailing hegemony,

My goodness, Kimbo, have you abandoned Calvinism for Postmodernism 🙂
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December 27, 2015 1:58pm
Kimbo

@ SGA

My goodness, Kimbo, have you abandoned Calvinism for Postmodernism 🙂

He he he. No. I’ve always said that elements of Marxist dialectics – which is a heretical form of Judaeo-Christian social understanding, IMHO – contains elements of truth and is a useful, albeit limited tool. Even though its overall answers are a rotten recipe for trying to build a just society. But just as injustice can be personal, it is also corporate. Refer to the book of Amos.
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December 27, 2015 2:14pm
SGA

Kimbo at 2:14 pm

Refer to the book of Amos.

From the Content Summary on Wikipedia, it doesn’t sound like holiday reading!
Chapter 1: “Yahweh vows to punish Northwestern Israel, Damascus, Gaza, Tyre, Edom, and Ammon.”
Chapter 2: “Yahweh promises to punish Moab, Judah, and Northern Israel for their sins.”
Chapter 3: “Having warned the Northern Israelites to desist from sinning, Yahweh promises to send an enemy into their land.”
Chapter 4: “Yahweh will exile the Northern Israelites for their sins.”
Chapter 5: “Yahweh promises to exile the people and Amos urges them to repent.”
Chapter 6: “Yahweh promises to exile the Northern Israelites.”
Chapter 7: “Amos is able to pacify Yahweh on two separate occasions, but Yahweh eventually decides to punish the Northern Israelites. Amaziah betrays Amos, and Amos tells him that he and the Israelites will die in exile.”
Chapter 8: “Yahweh shows Amos a basket of figs and promises to bring the kingdom of Northern Israel to an end.”
Chapter 9: “Yahweh promises to punish the Northern Israelites, reestablish the house of David, and bring prosperity back to the land.”
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December 27, 2015 2:22pm
Inandout

stephieboy 1.48: Yet another clue to stephie’s identity jigsaw- (verbatim) ‘Again have you persoanlly been a victim of race abuse and taunts ?’

So we know he is a Muslim (definitely a ‘he’ as ‘she’s’ don’t have an opinion), probably Arab looking, and possibly resides in a Muslim enclave.

The case continues.
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December 27, 2015 2:32pm
Kimbo

@ stephieboy

Kimbo, Are suggesting those who daubed Nazi insignia on these Jewish graves were directly influenced by the presence of Race Relations Act and office ?

You are an idiot. I said it does nothing to solve a practically non-existent problem…not that it was the cause of such incidents.

Again have you persoanlly been a victim of race abuse and taunts ?

Yes.

As was the case of many people people of my generation, irrespective of their race, especially if we grew up and went to school, worked, inter-married or played sport in Auckland…and ironically we did not obsess over our racial, ethnic and religious differences anywhere near the extent that the issue has come to dominate national political and media discussion. Instead, without someone “watching over us” to make sure we did it “right”, we actually judged people a lot more readily as people…instead of representatives of a particular social, racial, ethnic or religious demographic. But then for the left wing, everyt5hing is political, isn’t it?!

Because, believe it or not, stephieboy, there was a time when people in this nation just got on with living life, and not looking for reasons to be outraged, offended or a cause célèbre for launching a “social revolution”, or more likely a self-serving career in radical politics. If people were racist idiots and bigots they were best dealt with by avoiding them – just as you do with anyone with grievous or unpleasant social issues. As is still the case today. If people were good people, they were embraced as such irrespective of their race. Which, in New Zealand is still the best way to interact, express and work out your cultural differences – in a community of mutual respect and friendship, rather than through the prism of political and social orthodoxy that the misfit and redundant proselytes from the Auckland University Sociology Department agitate and insist must be adopted…and which the office of the Race Relations Conciliator, by default and courtesy of its terms of reference, seeks to enforce.

Is that clear? Or would you like yet another go at twisting my words and thoughts, including trawling the internet for the actions of a few unrepresentative idiots:

‘Vile’ desecration of Jewish headstones
6:27 PM Friday Oct 19, 2012 …The last time a similar anti-semitic attack occurred in New Zealand was in August 2004, when a Jewish prayer house was burnt down and 92 headstones were smashed in the Jewish section of Wellington’s Makara Cemetery.

– most likely teenagers looking to outrage hand-wringers like you – to make the case that our nations is awash with racial injustice similar to, say, Birmingham, Alabama, c1963, such that it needs a public servant to hold us by the hand and lecture us how to get along with people of differing races and religions?!
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December 27, 2015 2:36pm
SGA

Inandout at 2:32 pm

The case continues.

Yawn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
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December 27, 2015 2:38pm
Awww C-mon

Isn’t it entertaining watching Kimbo hand someone their arse gift wrapped and with a bow on top?

I applaud you Sir.

Stephieboy, nice try but sorry, no reward!

Lastly to the grammar, punctuation police. No I don’t know, no I don’t care and no I’m not paying attention but thanks anyway
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December 27, 2015 2:44pm
Kimbo

@ SGA

Is usually the Old Testament book that left-wingers get most excited about, e.g., Amos 6: 1-7

1
Woe to you who are complacent in Zion,
and to you who feel secure on Mount Samaria,
you notable men of the foremost nation,
to whom the people of Israel come!
2
Go to Kalneh and look at it;
go from there to great Hamath,
and then go down to Gath in Philistia.
Are they better off than your two kingdoms?
Is their land larger than yours?
3
You put off the day of disaster
and bring near a reign of terror.
4
You lie on beds adorned with ivory
and lounge on your couches.
You dine on choice lambs
and fattened calves.
5
You strum away on your harps like David
and improvise on musical instruments.
6
You drink wine by the bowlful
and use the finest lotions,
but you do not grieve over the ruin of Joseph.
7
Therefore you will be among the first to go into exile;
your feasting and lounging will end.

Plus do some research on the “rhetorical set-up to piss the audience off” in the extended set of “oracles of judgement against the nations” in 1:3 onward, culminating in 2:6-8, culminating in

6This is what the Lord says:

“For three sins of Israel,
even for four, I will not relent.
They sell the innocent for silver,
and the needy for a pair of sandals.
7
They trample on the heads of the poor
as on the dust of the ground
and deny justice to the oppressed.
Father and son use the same girl
and so profane my holy name.
8
They lie down beside every altar
on garments taken in pledge.
In the house of their god
they drink wine taken as fines.

All classic Mosaic social justice stuff. Those who say “politics and religion shouldn’t mix” never sat through a sermon by Amos. He and John Minto also came from the same school of “how to win friends and influence people” 😉
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December 27, 2015 2:51pm
Inandout

SGA: Yawn..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism
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December 27, 2015 3:01pm
stephieboy

Awww C-mon and other Grammar Gestapo members ,

I love writing. I love language. I love reading a sentence that flows with such lyricism that stopping it could be likened to a blow against the very fabric of nature.

So it comes to no surprise that I’m all for preserving language and abiding by its grammar rules. For me, grammar rules are there for good reasons. They exist to ensure that we’re able to express what we want to say with complete clarity and confidence.
However, I believe that some rules are made to be broken. I believe that some rules don’t help with clarity. I believe some rules are outdated. Plus, language is fluid and should grow and change as society does.
So I like to start sentences with “and”. Sometimes there’s nothing like good ol’ slang. And I think using “I” makes things way more personal and creates connections with readers like no other word can.
And I want you to learn how to write without fear of the Grammar Police reigning down their corrections of terror on your content.
But before we go any further, here’s some ground rules:
1 Think about your audience. If you’re writing an academic paper, you should probably be writing in a formal tone. If you’re writing for an audience of small business owners who’ve very little time to waste, you want to keep things informal and straight to the point.
2 Be true to your voice where possible. If you’re writing for personal reasons, or in a market that’s more informal, this will come naturally. However, if you’re writing in a more formal tone, this is going to be more of a challenge, but one that you should definitely work on.
3 Understand the context. What is the topic you’re writing on? What kind of content are you creating? An EBook will be more formal than a blog, for example.
Now, on to the rules you should know (and break)….

Grammar Rule #1 Never end a sentence with a preposition

This is probably one of the most frustrating grammar rules out there for me. Whenever I see a clunky sentence rearranged as to avoid a dangling prepositions, I die a little inside.
Ok, so that’s a little bit dramatic.
But from where has this rule come?
I don’t know, but I do know that that sentence sounds bizarre and should be written “where has this rule come from?” Honestly, appeasing the Grammar Police on this one makes you look like a crappy writer. So please, in the interest of readability, clarity and my own poor soul, end your sentences with prepositions when necessary. ….”

Writer and Pulitzer prize winner Cormac Mc Carthy breaking the formal rules of punctuation and grammar ,

http://www.brendoman.com/kyle/2008/03/09/what-cormac-mccarthy-taught-me-about-gra
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December 27, 2015 3:03pm
Kimbo

@ SGA

They lie down beside every altar
on garments taken in pledge.

Under Mosaic law a garment, given in pledge for a loan, always had to be returned to the owner every evening, so that person had something to keep themselves warm at night, Exodus 22: 226

If you take your neighbor’s cloak as a pledge, return it by sunset,

The fact that the lender, presumably in a drunken post-orgy stupor (see Amos 2: verse 6b and 7b) does so in front of an altar magnifies the hypocrisy. Hence (a good one for Calvinists and our doctrine of precious election), Amos 3: 1-2

1
Hear this word, people of Israel, the word the Lord has spoken against you—against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt:

2
“You only have I chosen
of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you
for all your sins.”
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December 27, 2015 3:04pm
stephieboy

Thinking about the debate regarding eugenics yesterday made me think of the close association of it and Libertarianism ,

Major Libertarian Thinker On Human ‘Failures’: ‘It Is Best They Should Die’

“Herbert Spencer was a popular author during the nineteenth century who supported strict limits on the government and even opposed many forms of charity towards the poor. Nature, Spencer argued, “secures the growth” of the human race by “weeding out those of lowest development,” and he also believed that neither government nor private charity should interfere with this process of natural selection. Though Spencer was not a eugenicist — he actually argued that the poor should be treated much more harshly than nineteenth and twentieth century eugenicists did — he was both a social acquaintance of Sir Francis Galton, the father of the eugenics movement, and a significant influence on Galton’s thinking. Spencer also shaped many of the policies developed by some of the most powerful judges and lawmakers of his era.
Reading Spencer’s many works today is an uncomfortable experience — the man devotes hundreds of pages to establishing a philosophical justification for a kind of neglect that most Americans would now view as a moral atrocity. Yet Spencer is also one of the foundational thinkers in the development of the economically libertarian philosophy that drives politicians such as Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY)…. “

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/15/3646802/libertarianism-immoral/
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December 27, 2015 3:11pm
Kimbo

Grammar Rule #1 Never end a sentence with a preposition

This is probably one of the most frustrating grammar rules out there for me. Whenever I see a clunky sentence rearranged as to avoid a dangling prepositions, I die a little inside.
Ok, so that’s a little bit dramatic.
But from where has this rule come?
I don’t know, but I do know that that sentence sounds bizarre and should be written “where has this rule come from?”

I would suggest the name preposition indicates why. Words such as ‘to’, ‘from’, ‘by’, ‘through’, etc indicate the relationship between two nouns or nominal phrases…so of their very nature they cannot be placed at the end of a sentence.
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December 27, 2015 3:11pm
Kiwi Dave

Stephieboy, watch out for the Dead Metaphor and Homophonephobic Police ‘reigning’ down their corrections of terror.
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December 27, 2015 3:26pm
Manolo

A costly social experiment destined to end up in tears given the number of parasites and illegal immigrants ready to shift there: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/26/dutch-city-utrecht-basic-income-uk-greens

Nevertheless, the municipalities are, in the words of de Boer, taking a “small step” towards a basic income for all by allowing small groups of benefit claimants to be paid £660 a month – and keep any earnings they make from work on top of that.

Their monthly pay will not be means-tested. They will instead have the security of that cash every month, and the option to decide whether they want to add to that by finding work.
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December 27, 2015 3:30pm
Manolo

Labour’s Angry Andy should do the same here, but I reckon he wouldn’t dare to say Christmas:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/video/2015/dec/24/bill-shortens-christmas-message-video
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December 27, 2015 3:34pm
Manolo

Worth reading:
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/ten-factors-that-will-determine-the-next-president/

What follows is an exploration of 10 factors that will probably determine the White House winner next year. Some of these — many of them, in fact — suggest that the GOP should be seen as a narrow favorite. But a few factors, combined with the live possibility that the next Republican nominee will make Mitt Romney look like Ronald Reagan, indicate to us that the 2016 general election is still a coin flip.
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December 27, 2015 3:41pm
Kiwi Dave

Stephieboy and Kimbo. The no prepositions at the end of sentences rule was taken from Latin grammar in the 17th century. It is not an English grammar rule at all and, given the huge number of prepositional verbs in English, can lead to weird constructions. Winston Churchill reputedly mocked it with, “That is something up with which I shall not put.”
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December 27, 2015 3:57pm
Kimbo

@ Kiwi Dave

Stephieboy and Kimbo. The no prepositions at the end of sentences rule was taken from Latin grammar in the 17th century. It is not an English grammar rule at all and, given the huge number of prepositional verbs in English, can lead to weird constructions. Winston Churchill reputedly mocked it with, “That is something up with which I shall not put.”

Ok. Thanks. Is Latin also the source of the “thou shalt not split the infinitive” dictum? As James T Kirk famously mispronounced, “To boldly go where no man has been before”.
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December 27, 2015 4:04pm
starboard

Actually, Capt Kirk said ” where no man has gone before”..not been..just sayin
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December 27, 2015 4:32pm
SGA

Kimbo at 4:04 pm

Ok. Thanks. Is Latin also the source of the “thou shalt not split the infinitive” dictum

Not so sure – I don’t think you can split infinitives in Latin because it’s one word (although that may be the rationale for the rule).
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December 27, 2015 4:36pm
Kimbo

@ SGA

I don’t think you can split infinitives in Latin because it’s one word

Correct.
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December 27, 2015 4:46pm
Kimbo

@ starboard

Actually, Capt Kirk said ” where no man has gone before”..not been..just sayin

I bow to your superior knowledge of the Roddenberry/Star Trek corpus
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December 27, 2015 4:48pm
DJP6-25

flipper 8:50am. Yes, Cameron slater usually hits the nail on the head.

Fletch 9:42 am. Good points.

Manolo 10:47 am. So, they’ve given up on Jeb-lo, and stealing underpants? I hope it’s Trump-Cruz. Trump is bringing in non-traditional voters. Cruz is needed to push things in the senate. Plus, a southerner is usually needed on most tickets.
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December 27, 2015 4:59pm
starboard

“Course heading, Captain?”

“…Second star to the right — and straight on ’til morning.”
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December 27, 2015 5:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Thank goodness I don’t have to write in Finnish with its 5 types of infinitive.

Anyway, for the seriously confused:
http://libedinsky.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/BananaSplitInfinitive1.png
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December 27, 2015 5:06pm
starboard

…and my favourite from Bones McCoy..

“He’s dead, Jim”

That must have been said 500 times throughout the original series.
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December 27, 2015 5:07pm
Don the Kiwi

“It’s life Jim, but not as we know it”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
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December 27, 2015 5:31pm
starboard

Fantastic video Don, thanks!!
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December 27, 2015 5:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Kimbo 12noon

I take that to be a deliberate departure from correct grammar and syntax for emphasis (is there are name for that, btw?)

Solecism
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December 27, 2015 5:48pm
Kimbo

@ Maggy Wassilieff

Solecism

Onya! Although is a solecism a deliberate transgression for rhetorical effect? if not, Biscuit’s “hyperbation” at 12:06 may be more accurate.
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December 27, 2015 5:56pm

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