General Debate 18 July 2016

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Odakyu-sen

So, is it the open season on police in the US?

That is really going to win hearts and minds over to your cause….

//
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July 18, 2016 9:54am
Manolo

While Obama, Divider in Chief, speaks in platitudes and does nothing. Ah, the incompetent.
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July 18, 2016 9:56am
EAD

Between Muslim terrorists, blacks killing cops, general black crime, Paki rape gangs, it seems that just about every problem we face today is a direct result of diversity. It absolutely beggars belief that anyone could still believe that diversity is a good thing. It is no longer even a matter capable of debate. The data is in. Diversity has been an unmitigated disaster.

Still – does anyone expect Key to stop with his “transformation” of New Zealand? Or will he just keep up the MSM/Political Elite narrative that is quickly becoming a joke (see illustration below):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnkRnchXYAAMz0W.jpg
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July 18, 2016 10:01am
Paulus Gnome

If you are a landlord, or the owner of a ‘roach motel’, this article written by a trained and professional journalist (guffaw guffaw snigger snigger) will cause amusement.

Deborah Hill Clown writes ‘A rent in the social fabric’

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11676285

The quality of writing and accuracy of the information contained within the article makes my little pony’s degree in chip wrapping look like a positive learning experience and a valuable contribution to the knowledge pool.

The level of ignorance on the subject by Clone is palpable although not unsurprising given the ‘profession’
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July 18, 2016 10:03am
James Stephenson

blacks killing cops

The evidence from Baton Rouge seems to be that Black Lives Matter, unless the life in question is a cop’s.
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July 18, 2016 10:09am
Rich Prick

Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers have to take some responsibility for being divisive and stirring up hatred to a point where some feel emboldened enough to just go about shooting police. That CAIR has joined forces with BLM says a lot about their respective intentions.
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July 18, 2016 10:15am
Nigel Kearney

Obama, Divider in Chief

Exactly. Having an excellent speechwriter can win you elections but is not useful when making real decisions. Terrorists, criminals and racists (of all colours) have flourished over the last eight years, far more than under Bush.
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July 18, 2016 10:15am
Don the Kiwi

Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organisation, run by radical marxist blacks who are effectively aligned with the New Black Panther movement.
The useless president Obummer needs to get his head out of his own arse and do something about it.
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July 18, 2016 10:17am
Odakyu-sen

In any case where some “lone wolf” does something really nasty, you have to try and determine if said wolf had handlers, trainers, enablers or other coaches. You need to go after these people.

The wolf is just the tool on the machine shop floor. You need to go after the Board of Directors upstairs.
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July 18, 2016 10:20am
Hugh Pavletich

THE HOUSING CRISIS … IS BUSINESS WAKING UP ? … FRAN O’SULLIVAN NEW ZEALAND HERALD

Posted at … http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2016/07/weekend-reading-16-17-july-2016/ … top of thread …

FRAN O’SULLIVAN: RICH LISTER (STEPHEN JENNINGS) SENDS MESSAGE TO KEY … NEW ZEALAND HERALD

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11675391

(also on TVNZ Q&A
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/ta-tvnz-index-group-2556429 )

… extract …

… … Jonathan Coleman and Paul Goldsmith are part of National’s future. They are intelligent. They are incisive. They are in for the long haul.

But it takes bottle to confront Key’s “kitchen Cabinet” – Bill English, Steven Joyce, Gerry Brownlee and Paula Bennett – and tell them that when it comes to the housing crisis, many in business are coming to the view that their emperor has no clothes.

Several guests were disappointed no one from Key’s inner circle was present. “Are they going to take the message back to the big guys?” one asked me.

“Jesus Christ, what are your grandkids going to do?” said another, predicting it would not be long before young New Zealanders head off overseas again because they could not get a toehold here.

The question I have for both ministers is what will they say when the Cabinet convenes on Monday? Both looked slightly ill at ease when I teased them on Thursday evening by suggesting they present a brief.

A one-page brief that slices through the issues, confronts the problems directly and stops the endless spin machine might just do the trick. But they are politicians.

Jennings did not let business off the hook either.

As a society, New Zealand needed to debate these crucial issues so they are raised to the level where politicians are forced to respond. … read more via hyperlink above …

Tracy Watkins: Housing solutions out of reach | Stuff – Fairfax New Zealand

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/82146247/housing-solutions-out-of-reach

New Zealand’s homes top an ‘obscene’ $900 billion combined value | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/82025712/New-Zealands-homes-top-an-obscene-900-billion-combined-value
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July 18, 2016 10:22am
Nigel Kearney

The fallacy with BLM is the comparison to the total population, not the criminal population.

The percentage of crime committed by blacks in the US is higher than the percentage of arrested people who are black, or the percentage of those shot by police who are black. That means police are not targeting blacks in particular. The solution for black Americans is to stop committing so much crime.
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July 18, 2016 10:28am
Odakyu-sen

Ah, the old “transformation” of New Zealand trick…

What are the possibilities?
– The NZ government wants to transform NZ
– The NZ government is transforming NZ by accident
– The NZ government is being forced to transform NZ by outside pressure
– The NZ government is serving the People of NZ who want to transform NZ

I have some questions.
What specific “transformation” are you concerned about?
What aspect of this transformation are you concerned about?
If you became the Dictator of NZ, what would you do?
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July 18, 2016 10:32am
Rich Prick

The Herald is banging on about “ghost” houses again.

One former resident complained how her family home had been left empty and how upsetting she and the family found that.

Upsetting? Really? There’s this thing called private property. Whether a house is occupied or not is no business of the Herald, former residents or the community at large.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11676319
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July 18, 2016 10:33am
dime

the media must be thrilled that their constant race baiting has killed a few more cops. that means more clicks..

130 black guys killed by cops in the US this year… 250 white dudes killed… but lets not get pesky facts involved.
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July 18, 2016 10:43am
Fletch

I would like to see how these black communities in the U.S handle themselves if the cops just said, “OK, you don’t want us? Fine”, and totally withdrew. Let’s see what life would be like then. It would be total chaos.
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July 18, 2016 10:58am
stephieboy

dime , which media ” must be thrilled that their constant race baiting has killed a few more cops. that means more clicks..”

A reminder also the black population represents 12.2 % of the US total population. When you tout those figures the 150 appears to be unusually large.
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July 18, 2016 11:03am
dime

“A reminder also the black population represents 12.2 % of the US total population. When you tout those figures the 150 appears to be unusually large.”

not when you tout that they commit a shitload of crimes for their percentage of population
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July 18, 2016 11:07am
Padriv Ustoev

@Stephie

12.5% Yet they account for over 40% of violent crime. Go figure.
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July 18, 2016 11:07am
Maggy Wassilieff

So how much substance was there in the Sunday Times story that the Chinese are using heavy tactics on NZ producers?

Was it a beat-up by the E-Tu union?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/82192563/John-Key-downplays-retaliation-suggestions-over-potential-China-steel-import-sanctions?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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July 18, 2016 11:13am
Jack5

Beware of holidaying in Samoa. A brutal rapist seems able to pop out of the country’s security prison whenever he likes. He’s raped an Australian woman on her honeymoon while forcing her husband to watch.

This raises the question of the liability of tour organisers and tourism operators. In Britain, a doctor is suing a tour firm after being raped on a Caribbean trip.

Most of the foreign tourists being beaten up in NZ, especially in Northland, seem to be independents travelling on their own. Perhaps some could sue those who provide their camper vans, or does NZ’s ACC regime take away their right to sue?
Prospective tourists should be told about the AGG regime, regardless.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11676441

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694275/Doctor-says-raped-women-Caribbean-holiday-offered-manicure-massage-firm-ran-trip.html
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July 18, 2016 11:15am
howitis

I see the filthy tax dodgers TV3 had a doco on last night (Sunday) on Black Power in the US.
I recorded it and watched a few minutes this morning. I deleted it.

It was disgusting. First it was a British wanker doing it so that is bad. They love to hammer the US about slavery (12 years a useless director) without acknowledging their own hundreds of years of slavery esp in the Caribbean just off the coast of USA.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/12/british-history-slavery-buried-scale-revealed
… When the Slavery Abolition Act was passed, there were 46,000 slave owners in Britain…

Dan Murdoch, the whiny Brit, interviewed black people about their desire to shoot cops. Open mike. Open season.

This could have been pulled after Dallas but trebles the stupidity of Media jerks after the Baton Rouge shootings.
Shame on TV3.
#tv3classlesswankers
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July 18, 2016 11:22am
stephieboy

@Padriv Ustoev

“Black Crime Rates: What Happens When Numbers Aren’t Neutral,”

There is a common conservative narrative that indicates the disproportionate incarceration of black people is not the result of systemic racism, but rather of shortcomings within the black community.

It is also common to hear the supposedly neutral statement that “black people commit more crimes than white people.” This “fact” is used to justify a belief that black people have a natural criminal propensity, or that a “culture of violence” is to blame for problems faced by black people in America.

Black people make up roughly 13% of the United States population, and white people make up 64%. Black people make up 40% of the prison population, and white people 39%. Therefore, even though there are roughly five times as many white people as black people in this country, blacks and whites are incarcerated in equal numbers. But the fact that black people are incarcerated five times as frequently as white people does not mean black people commit five times as many crimes. Here’s why:

(1) If a black person and a white person each commit a crime, the black person is more likely to be arrested. This is due in part to the fact that black people are more heavily policed….”

2) When black people are arrested for a crime, they are convicted more often than white people arrested for the same crime. ….”

(3) When black people are convicted of a crime, they are more likely to be sentenced to incarceration compared to whites convicted of the same crime….”

“….. Regardless of the exact factors behind the incarceration gap, it is not some neutral, statistical fact that black people commit more crime. The gap is the result of numerous interacting factors, not the least of which is racism. Explanations of the incarceration gap as a result of black criminal propensity or insular cultural deficiencies are critically flawed, and by definition racist.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-farbota/black-crime-rates-your-st_b_8078586.html
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July 18, 2016 11:24am
howitis

Lydia Ko Wins Marathon golf classic in playoff.
Excellent.
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July 18, 2016 11:28am
Manolo

What a laugh! Now the resident Islamophile is a fervent advocate for black criminals, thugs and murderers.
Hold on, why am I surprised?
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July 18, 2016 11:28am
stephieboy

Jack 5 , well at least today Muslims get off the hook for rape blame ,

Mail Online sex attack story ‘filled with lies’, Swedish woman says

Lisen Andréasson Florman says Daily Mail website wrongly reported she had been victim of sexual assault at music festival,

“A Swedish woman has accused the Mail Online of falsely representing her as the victim of a sexual assault in an article about sex attacks allegedly perpetrated by “foreign youths” at a music festival.

Lisen Andréasson Florman told the Guardian she was shocked to discover herself cast as the victim of an assault, and said she felt “violated” by the Mail Online report.

The article had contained extensive quotes from Andréasson Florman describing a sexual attack at the hands of a group of men, who groped her breasts and left her feeling “small and vulnerable”.

Lisen Andréasson Florman says she feels violated by the Mail Online.

“No one groped my breasts, despite what the Daily Mail claims in both headline and story. The Daily Mail has published a piece of sensationalistic writing, filled with lies. The newspaper has consciously distorted my quotes, stolen private photos and lied. All in order to confirm a story that serves an agenda that isn’t mine and to tell a story that isn’t true,” she wrote in a Facebook post…”

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/15/mail-online-sweden-music-bravalla-festival-sex-attack-story
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July 18, 2016 11:28am
wreck1080

Ahh man the turtle died.

Not surprised though, looked awfully sick on TV.
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July 18, 2016 11:32am
Manolo

stephieboy will be glued to his TV watching this:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/17/gop-convention-calendar-events-and-major-speakers/?mod=e2tw
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July 18, 2016 11:36am
stephieboy

Manolo , my post “Black Crime Rates: What Happens When Numbers Aren’t Neutral,” could allow you to do something that has been conspicuously lacking by you – namely use your brains !
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July 18, 2016 11:41am
Keeping Stock

Pretty galling to hear both Alison Mau and Patrick Gower in full excitement mode this morning. Gower is at the Republican Convention at Ohio, and both he and Mau seemed obsessed with Ohio’s open carry laws, the likelihood of mass demonstrations outside the convention, and without saying as much, the prospect of casualties. Is this really how low our mainstream media has sunk?
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July 18, 2016 11:43am
Rich Prick

KS, it probably never occurred to Mau nor Gower that opponents of the Republicans being armed, protesting and that casualties might occur should say much more about those on the other (their) side of politics.
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July 18, 2016 11:48am
Keeping Stock

@ howitis – there’s obviously someone on here who either despises golf or Lydia Ko, or both. It’s sad that we can’t celebrate the success of possibly the best sportswoman New Zealand has ever produced.

As for Ko herself, at the age of 19 she now has fourteen wins on the LPGA Tour (including two majors). Here’s her results over 15 starts on the Tour this year – T3rd, 2nd, T15th, 2nd, 1st, 1st, T23rd, T6th, T18th, T16th, 2nd, T4th, 1st, T3rd, 1st. That is incredible consistency, and she is still two years younger than Tiger Woods was when he first won on the PGA Tour. In addition, she has finished in the top three in the last five Majors.

Ko’s next start will be at the British Women’s Open in a fortnight, and then it will be off to Rio for her quest for an Olympic gold medal against the best players in the game. You certainly wouldn’t bet against her winning both.
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July 18, 2016 11:52am
renderer

Fletch do you still have a link to the app for block quotes please ?
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July 18, 2016 11:55am
Odakyu-sen

Is it just me or do you also suspect that we have a serial down-ticker in our midst?
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July 18, 2016 11:56am
Manolo

@Odakyu-sen: We do…and he prays five times a day. 😀
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July 18, 2016 11:58am
stigie

Yep, well done to Lydia on winning the Marathon Classic with a play off against 2 other girls which took an extra 4 holes.
The downticker on howitis’s comment at 11.28 can only be a classic leftie parasite who hates to see people achieve because they cant achieve themselves. Sad fucks really !~
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July 18, 2016 12:03pm
Keeping Stock

@ Rich Prick – quite so. They probably don’t see the irony of armed protesters trying to stop the Republicans from going about their lawful business.

Still, if something unfortunate DOES happen, we will have Paddy Gower right there, reporting breathlessly on it and giving us his perspective. So here’s hoping NOTHING happens!
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July 18, 2016 12:04pm
Shawn Herles

Debunking the myth that Blacks are victims of of a racist police and judiciary.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/myth-racial-profiling-12022.html

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1627
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July 18, 2016 12:11pm
MT_Tinman

There seems to be a serious anti-old farts theme emerging at the moment.

Old farts have been blamed for Brexit (a bloody good move by the Poms), blamed for young whippersnappers being unable to afford 6 bedroom, three bathroom mansions as their first house in Jafaville and blamed for living long enough to get some benefit from those massive taxes we paid earlier in our working lives.

Now the attack is shifting to how long some councilors have been in the job (although I note not yet how long some MPs have been nosing in the trough).

Those making this attack – recently DPF and today the Taxpayers Union and others – fail to recognise that councilors are elected officials.

I admit the presence of many of these bastards in decision making roles saddens me but If they have been at the trough too long that is the fault of the voters who elect them, not the people themselves.

If you want to change the elected personnel get out and vote, help those you want to be elected to do so, stand for council or parliament (or whatever) yourself.

Stop blaming older (if seldom wiser) farts for succeeding.
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July 18, 2016 12:14pm
tom hunter

howitis (560 comments) says:
July 18th, 2016 at 11:22 am
I see the filthy tax dodgers TV3 had a doco on last night (Sunday) on Black Power in the US.

How many times does the following have to be said:

They got your eyeballs and outrage.

They don’t care about anything else.

Don’t watch them.

Persuade others not to watch them.

Let them die – slowly.
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July 18, 2016 12:15pm
stigie

You can bet your last dollar that these downtickers hate to see people enjoying themselves and achieving in sport !~
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July 18, 2016 12:18pm
Shawn Herles

Is the Criminal-Justice System Racist?

No: the high percentage of blacks behind bars reflects crime rates, not bigotry.

“The race industry and its elite enablers take it as self-evident that high black incarceration rates result from discrimination. At a presidential primary debate this Martin Luther King Day, for instance, Senator Barack Obama charged that blacks and whites “are arrested at very different rates, are convicted at very different rates, [and] receive very different sentences . . . for the same crime.” Not to be outdone, Senator Hillary Clinton promptly denounced the “disgrace of a criminal-justice system that incarcerates so many more African-Americans proportionately than whites.”

But the evidence is clear: black prison rates result from crime, not racism.”

http://www.city-journal.org/html/criminal-justice-system-racist-13078.html
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July 18, 2016 12:18pm
Duxton

stephieboy, I wouldn’t believe anything I read in The Guardian.
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July 18, 2016 12:20pm
Hugh Pavletich

CHRISTCHURCH RESIDENTIAL RENTS FALLING … LIZ McDONALD … THE PRESS

Week’s free rent to entice tenants as Christchurch rental rates fall | Stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/82099386/weeks-free-rent-to-entice-tenants-as-christchurch-rental-rates-fall
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July 18, 2016 12:21pm
Shawn Herles

Cleveland Police Officer on Baton Rouge Shooting: Obama ‘Has Blood on His Hands’

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/07/17/cleveland-police-officer-on-baton-rouge-shooting-obama-has-blood-on-his-hands/
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July 18, 2016 12:22pm
Shawn Herles

How Will Hillary Clinton, Huma Abedin, Saudi Arabia Avoid the Trump Train?

“A day of reckoning is coming for both presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton and her mysterious aide Huma Abedin. This issue: Hillary Clinton’s relationship with Saudi Arabia, a U.S. “ally” that the 28 Pages report just brought into the bright sunlight. Hillary Clinton is going to have to answer to media or (more likely, since the media doesn’t do their job) she can answer on live TV in front of millions of Americans when Donald Trump hits her a question about Saudi Arabia and Huma at one of the debates.

With the political convention season upon us, the silent majority of Americans who don’t pay close attention to politics are about to start tuning in.

Those good Americans will find out that both Huma and Hillary have a lot of explaining to do about Saudi Arabia, the big money that the Kingdom has given to the Clintons, and why Hillary knew the Saudis were funding terrorism and didn’t do anything about it. The public will have questions about Saudi Arabian-raised Huma Abedin, a woman who I’ve already said I believe is a Saudi plant.”

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/07/15/hillary-clinton-relationship-saudi-arabia/
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July 18, 2016 12:29pm
wikiriwhis business

Paul Ryan Knowingly Sold Shares Of Doomed Banks After Private Briefing On 2008 Banking Crisis

As noted by public records on September 18th, 2008, Paul Ryan sold stock in US banks on the same day he attended a confidential meeting where high ranking government officials discussed that the sector was heading into negative territory. The banks that were reportedly in heavy financial trouble, such as Citigroup and Wachovia, had stocks sold off by Ryan that day.

Ryan then bought shares in Goldman Sachs, the old employer of Henry Paulson who was the Secretary of Treasury at the time. Paulson, along with Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke, were two of the representatives who attended the September 18th meeting, outlined what they saw as the potential downfall of the banking sector. At the time of the selling off of the stocks, it was not considered an illegal sale.

Wachovia’s share price went into freewill as expected, plunging 39% on the afternoon of September 26 of that year as investors prepared for what they saw as the pending collapse. Wells Fargo would swoop in and take over with a $15 billion dollar purchase of Wachovia.

http://www.greenvillegazette.com/p/paul-ryan-knowingly-sold-shares-of-doomed-banks-after-private-briefing-on-2008-banking-crisis-131355/
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July 18, 2016 12:29pm
Odakyu-sen

Damn. More than one, but the look of it…
(Or possibly one serial down-ticker and four copycats…)
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July 18, 2016 12:31pm
VicParking

How did China find out about the Steel complaint. I think the nail hit the head when it was commented on Red radio that the Unions seemed to know more about it than the Government.
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July 18, 2016 12:32pm
Shawn Herles

Questions around Vince Foster’s death still haunting Hillary

http://nypost.com/2016/07/11/questions-around-vince-fosters-death-still-haunting-hillary/
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July 18, 2016 12:32pm
wikiriwhis business

Who is J Key

https://www.facebook.com/Nate.William.Morgan/posts/10157127779435463
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July 18, 2016 12:46pm
Shawn Herles

“Who is J Key”

I’m going to go out on a limb and say, the Prime Minister of New Zealand. 🙂
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July 18, 2016 12:49pm
Shawn Herles

Poland’s interior minister: multiculturalism responsible for Nice jihad massacre

“Multiculturalism, political correctness and mass migration are responsible for terror attacks in Europe, Poland’s interior minister has said. Blasting Western Europe’s response to terror — holding marches and drawing pictures of flowers — as ineffective, Mariusz Blaszczak said governments should protect their citizens.

After it emerged that a Tunisian living in France was responsible for the terror attack in Nice this week, Mr Blaszczak said it was the result of years of multiculturalism.

Mr Blaszczak struck a decidedly different tone to other Western leaders, linking mass Muslim immigration with terrorism. Speaking about France, which has seen over a dozen Islamist terror attacks in less than two years, the minister said that by rejecting mass migration his government hopes to avoid the mistakes made by many Western governments.

Speaking to Konrad Piasecki on news channel TVN24, the minister said he believes Europe would be safer with fewer, rather than more Muslims.

Mr Blaszczak added that he believes the Visegrad Group — Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic — are not threatened by terrorism to the extent that countries like France are because the countries “do not want newcomers to settle” in them.

On the threat terror poses to Europe Mr Blaszczak mused that France is “in a much more difficult situation than Poland”, stating the difference lies in the countries’ immigration policies.

The politician said: “Poland also would be in such a situation, if not for a change of government. Already we would have thousands of immigrants from the Middle East and Africa.”

Voted into power last October, Mr Blaszczak’s Law and Justice party (PiS) became the first since the fall of the Soviet Union to win an absolute majority. The former governing party, Civic Platform (PO), were voted out after agreeing to accept thousands of migrants.

Stating that the PO government were on track to commit the same mistakes as other Western countries, the minister asserted that “newcomers from Africa and the Middle East simply do not integrate”.

Declaring the basis of European values and culture as Christianity, Mr Blaszczak argued it cannot coexist with the culture and values of newcomers to the continent, and that multiculturalism is “wrong” as a concept.

The Polish minister launched a scathing attack on Western politicians’ responses to migrants’ failure to integrate. Mr Blaszczak questioned why, after two terrorist attacks took place in Paris last year, and Germany saw over 1,000 women sexually assaulted in attacks on New Year’s Eve, official policies of “multiculturalism” and “enrichment” continued.”

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/07/polands-interior-minister-multiculturalism-responsible-for-nice-jihad-massacre

Mass immigration and multiculturalism are hate crimes against the peoples of the West.
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July 18, 2016 12:52pm
Inandout

Stephie/sam disappear around midday because prayer time is 12.20pm.

http://www.masjideumar.co.nz/

Shit, imagine your whole life dictated by prayer times.
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July 18, 2016 12:53pm
doggone7

stigie @ 12:03 pm

I was following the golf this morning. Ko’s skill level and temperament are exceptional, her consistency hard to believe.
Someone down ticking one of the comments about her drew your response: “The downticker on howitis’s comment at 11.28 can only be a classic leftie parasite who hates to see people achieve because they cant achieve themselves. Sad fucks really !”

Maybe they pushed the wrong button. Maybe they bet money on one of the other women winning. Maybe they’re anti-sport or anti-golf.
Maybe they’re a misery guts.

Let’s recognise the triumph of Ko but also your contribution. You see someone doing something you don’t like and it’s “a classic leftie parasite who hates to see people achieve.”

Were any limitations in and “Sad fuckedness” of the down ticker any worse than yours?
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July 18, 2016 12:58pm
Morrissey

The Midwest Peace Process

In 1793 a great council was held, to which came the chiefs and headmen of the Delawares, and of twelve other tribes, to meet commissioners of the United States, for one last effort to settle the vexed boundary question. The records of this council are profoundly touching. The Indians reiterated over and over the provisions of the old treaties which had established the Ohio River as one of their boundaries. Their words were not the words of ignorant barbarians, clumsily and doggedly holding to a point; they were the words of clear-headed, statesman-like rulers, insisting on the rights of their nations. As the days went on, and it became more and more clear that the United States commissioners would not agree to the establishment of the boundary for which the Indians contended, the speeches of the chiefs grow sadder and sadder . . .

You have talked to us about concessions. It appears strange that you should expect any from us, who have only been defending our just rights against your invasions. We want peace. Restore to us our country, and we shall be enemies no longer.

We desire you to consider, brothers, that our only demand is the peaceable possession of a small part of our once great country. Look back and review the lands from whence we have been driven to this spot. We can retreat no farther, because the country behind hardly affords food for its present inhabitants, and we have therefore resolved to leave our bones in this small space to which we are now confined’.

The commissioners replied that to make the Ohio River the boundary was now impossible; that they sincerely regretted that peace could not be made; but, ‘knowing the upright and liberal views of the United States’, they trust that ‘impartial judges will not attribute the continuance of the war to them’.

Notice was sent to the governor that the Indians ‘refused to make peace’; and General Anthony Wayne, a few weeks later, wrote to the Secretary of War, ‘The safety of the Western frontiers, the reputation of the legion, the dignity and interest of the nation—all forbid a retrograde manoeuvre, or giving up one inch of ground we now possess, till the enemy are compelled to sue for peace’.

– H.H. Jackson, A Century of Dishonour: A sketch of the United States Government’s dealings with some of the Indian tribes (Massachusetts: Corner House, 1979 [1881]), pp. 41-43.

http://normanfinkelstein.com/2016/07/14/the-midwest-peace-process/
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July 18, 2016 1:03pm
stephieboy

Shawn Herles , maybe the Polish Interior Minister might take a cue from the Nazis and expel Muslims as they did with Poles e.g Zamosc expulsions ,

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Bundesarchiv_R_49_Bild-0128,_Gelsendorf,_Aussiedlung_von_Polen.jpg/760px-Bundesarchiv_R_49_Bild-0128,_Gelsendorf,_Aussiedlung_von_Polen.jpg

In what way is multiculturalism a bad thing for NZ ?
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July 18, 2016 1:06pm
Fletch

Fletch do you still have a link to the app for block quotes please ?

renderer, I keep on forgetting which file service I have uploaded it to.
Just uploaded again to here –

https://www.sendspace.com/file/hd796a

It doesn’t need installing it just runs.

Here’s the little video of it working (best to watch it in quite good quality, like 720p)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaqK98JdKR4
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July 18, 2016 1:26pm
Shawn Herles

“Just uploaded again to here –”

Good, I had lost mine when I bought a new laptop. Thanks Fletch.

Back to the grindstone.
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July 18, 2016 1:33pm
ngatimozart

I see that Kevin Rudd has decided to go for the UN Secretary Generals job. http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/82201360/kevin-rudd-seeks-australian-government-support-for-un-secretary-general-candidacy He has asked for Australian govt support. He has ego issues that boy and stories abound of his leadership style from when he was PM being rolled by his own MPs because of his ego, temper and management style the first time he was PM. Then the whiteanting (undermining) and backstabbing that he and his cronies did when he was not PM. God help the UN if he gets the job.
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July 18, 2016 1:40pm
howitis

wikiriwhis business (5,169 comments) says:
July 18th, 2016 at 12:46 pm
Who is J Key
————————–
Why good sir, it is the person the NZ TV channels love to hate.
With prejudice.
They bust a zipper to stick it to the man.

They might as well just have a sign up on the screen for five minutes
‘I hate the gubmint’
5 minutes later, change
‘I hate John Key’
Five minutes later
‘I hate National’
Rinse and repeat.

This would be cheaper than paying $400k x 2 p.a. to some numpty talking heads to prattle on followed by Commie Danns, Krazy Katies, or Chipmunk Gowers blathering on.
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July 18, 2016 1:40pm
rangitoto

“God help the UN if he gets the job.”

Give him the job!
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July 18, 2016 1:49pm
Morrissey

‪What would YOU do if you were publicly embarrassed, outwitted, and outgunned intellectually?
Watch Alan Dershowitz shout, interject, call names and do everything except argue in good faith.

As anybody who witnessed the grim spectacle of Jamie Whyte’s election campaign will attest, holding down a position at a prestigious English university is no guarantee that one is even moderately smart or competent. Same goes for the Ivy League universities across the Atlantic: for every Noam Chomsky or Albert Einstein, there will be a fraud like David Horowitz, or the Harvard Law School’s notorious Professor Alan Dershowitz….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ux4JU_sbB0

At 44:52, just after another Dershowitz attempt to derail Chomsky—Dershowitz witlessly shouts about “Planet Chomsky”—the “moderator” feels compelled to show that he is not merely a corpse….

44:52 “Gentlemen, if I could … Given that the, errr, JFK Forum is, uh, here for the purpose of creating educated citizens and participants in a very important debate, I would ask, uh, each of you, uh, to exercise a bit of restraint …”

Chomsky is several orders of IQ smarter, and he systematically refutes everything Dershowitz says. But Dershowitz is utterly shameless, and plows on with his propaganda mission regardless. At 46:30 he calls Israel’s illegal, internationally condemned annexation wall a “security fence”.
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July 18, 2016 1:55pm
Fletch

Turns out that politicians are more likely to be psychopaths.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/research-suggests-politicians-are-more-likely-to-be-psychopaths-11364143/?no-ist
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July 18, 2016 1:56pm
Paulus Gnome

Inandout – ‘Shit, imagine your whole life dictated by prayer times.’

It is; Christmas, Easter and Auckland traffic
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July 18, 2016 2:08pm
renderer

Thanks Fletch, also have new computer and lost the previous app.
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July 18, 2016 2:17pm
mandk

@ Morrisey

Of course it’s a security fence.

You’d build one too if your neighbours vowed to wipe you off the face of the earth.
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July 18, 2016 2:23pm
Keeping Stock

From wikiriwhi (12.46pm):

Who is J Key

That story is so 2008 wikiriwhi. Time has moved on since then. You should too 😀
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July 18, 2016 2:30pm
Kiwi Dave

Stephieboy, perhaps 95% of people intentionally shot by the police and 85% of prison inmates in the USA are male; obviously this is clear evidence of the massively unjust gender bias in American law enforcement, at least for the statistically naive.

Because of the problems you have mentioned potentially producing misleading statistics, several studies have compared the racial statistics of perpetrators, as identified by the victims of muggings and rapes, with the racial statistics of arrests for those crimes, and the two statistics match, so no bias, unless you wish to argue that the victims deliberately mis-identify the perpetrators.
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July 18, 2016 2:32pm
Shawn Herles

For Morrisey.

The Top 200 Chomsky Lies

http://www.paulbogdanor.com/200chomskylies.pdf
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July 18, 2016 2:40pm
sam green

For anyone:

Response to Bogdanor.

http://bigwhiteogre.blogspot.co.nz/2011/06/response-to-paul-bogdanors-top-200.html
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July 18, 2016 2:50pm
ex-golfer

@KS
Given that EAD is so anti-diversity he is probably the down ticker of the Lydia Ko comment.
She is a result of our diverse population is she not?
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July 18, 2016 3:58pm
wiseowl

The MacKenzie District Council have budgeted $460,000 for the first set of toilets at Lake Tekapo.

Toilets for $460,000 !

Why the hell does it cost so much to build anything in this country? Some councillor needs to question this cost.

Unbelievable.
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July 18, 2016 4:03pm
AgentBallSack

stephiebitch blah blah blah 12.5% of the population

Well Hispanics make up about the same percentage of the population yet very few of them manage to get shot and killed by cops. In fact about the same death percentage per population as white people.

What does that tell you?
PS. STFU.
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July 18, 2016 4:04pm
nasska

Wiseowl @ 4.03pm comments:

….”Why the hell does it cost so much to build anything in this country?”….

1) Incompetent councils determined to create castles instead of building utilities.

2) Nit picking building inspectors.

3) The RMA (mostly its interpretation)

That’ll do for starters.
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July 18, 2016 4:58pm
Reid

The fact the Guardian is giving a sympathetic ear to Fethullah Gülen, the man Turkish president Erdogan alleges was behind the failed coup, could be a hint at some of the complex realities and conflicting loyalties here. As indeed can the media’s sudden and renewed discovery of the Erdogan government’s long history of brutality, which is also being freshly aired by the BBC.

The Guardian article even suggests the coup may have been staged by Erdogan to increase his own popularity. Again this is interesting. In general it’s only regimes we’re being invited to disapprove of or demonise that are accused of shady dealings and false flags. Any suggestion that a friendly nation could stage a fake coup would usually be greeted with cries of “conspiracy theory.”

So it looks as if Erdogan is in an ambiguous position with his masters in Washington right now. A development that may not be entirely unconnected with Erdogan’s recent overtures of conciliation toward Russia.

Erdogan is demanding Gülen’s extradition, and the US is requesting evidence of the latter’s guilt before considering its position, whatever that will turn out to mean. And the Incirlik air base is apparently still intermittently being closed for use by the Pentagon, for reasons that remain unclear.

Time will no doubt reveal more. But we can at least detect the broad strokes of an emerging narrative. Erdogan’s brutality is no longer inadmissible in the neoliberal media. And Gülen is being sold to us as a more acceptable potential alternative.

Let’s see how this develops.
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July 18, 2016 5:10pm
Longknives

“@Stephie
12.5% Yet they account for over 40% of violent crime. Go figure.”

Yes but as Stephieboy and Co will point out- Every single one of them has been ‘framed’ by those evil Racist Cops…
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July 18, 2016 5:17pm
Reid

FAA bans all flights to and from Turkey, indefinitely.

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160717/1043140643/faa-erdogan-obama-ankara-washington.html
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July 18, 2016 5:31pm
Reid

And the memes begin…

Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society. Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe.

Our leaders no longer do their basic homework.The media relies on experts-by-Wikipedia. Except for PC platitudes, our schools ignore the world beyond our shores. Deluged with unreliable information, citizens succumb to the new superstitions of the digital age.

So a great country is destroyed by Islamist hardliners before our eyes—and our president praises its “democracy.”

And the sheeple baaa like mad as the vapid yet toxic propaganda seeps in from ~~Hitler’s~~ the Khazarian Mafia’s propaganda organs, settling into the sheeple and breeding subconscious hate, just as intended, just as happened in history not long ago, but the sheeple have forgotten, so it’s repeating.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/07/16/turkeys-last-hope-dies.html
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July 18, 2016 5:42pm
Viking2

Stephie Boy.

Warning… Christmas shopping…

Be Very Careful With TradeMe

PLEASE BE AWARE AND TAKE NOTE OF TRADERS NOT SELLING AS ADVERTISED.

I was definitely scammed!
I ordered you a blow-up doll, and this is what they sent…

http://screencast.com/t/FKO7IfB2jzb
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July 18, 2016 5:47pm
Shawn Herles

“And the memes begin…”

Reid doesn’t know what a meme is.

meme
miːm/
noun
noun: meme; plural noun: memes

1.
an element of a culture or system of behaviour passed from one individual to another by imitation or other non-genetic means.
2.
an image, video, piece of text, etc., typically humorous in nature, that is copied and spread rapidly by Internet users, often with slight variations.
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July 18, 2016 5:58pm
Reid

Shawn doesn’t know what propaganda is.
http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/03/how-memes-become-propaganda-2/

And here’s one from his mate, Richard Dawkins:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetic_engineering
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July 18, 2016 6:11pm
calendar girl

Re this morning’s 3-fatality head-on collision of a car and a truck on the Desert Road, I’m surprised that the Police have publicly announced to the media that the driver of the car was responsible. The car crossed the centre-line, according to the Police.

Is it just me who’s uncomfortable with this kind of public allocation of blame by the Police? Where does the Coronor come into the picture, if at all? Would we accept the Police deciding who was responsible for robbing the local bank at gunpoint, without so much as the ‘due process’ of going through a criminal trial?

Most of us are strong supporters of our Police, and recognise that they are required to perform a rotton job much of the time. But at times I’m less than happy with Police leadership at regional level, and the general dissemination of and adherence to Police operational policies.
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July 18, 2016 6:18pm
Inandout

Viking2 5.47: A nice body no doubt, but you will not get a reply from him. To even think about such things will take many hours of praying and flagellating to contrite. In the free times in Iran when women could dress sanely, there were some really stunning females on display.
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July 18, 2016 6:22pm
Reid

“This was unambiguously a military coup. And yet the US Embassy in Ankara in its emergency message to US citizens called it an “uprising”.

Geopolitical Futures released an analysis saying the coup was successful. BBC Arabic, Sky News Arabic, El Arabiya TV, the ITN diplomatic editor, the US networks were all running commentaries saying Erdogan was finished, or had fled to Germany.

The Guardian ran a piece whose first headline (it was later amended) said everything about an author unable to contain his glee at the demise of a man he qualified as authoritarian islamist: “How Recep Tayyip Erdogan inflamed tensions in Turkey”.

As the people of Turkey battled for their future, there was a crashing silence from Western leaders whose brand image is democracy. The French consulate had closed two days earlier. Did it know something Turkey did not?

In his initial statement, US Secretary of State John Kerry used every word except the dreaded “d” one. He hoped for “stability and peace and continuity” within Turkey.

Nothing about supporting a legitimately elected president and a legitimately elected parliament. Only when it was already obvious that the coup was failing did President Barack Obama and Kerry issue a statement unambiguously backing Erdogan.

If you want to know why Europe and the US are a busted flush in the Middle East, why they have lost all moral authority, indeed any authority at all, and why they are no longer the candle bearers of democratic change, look no further than the three hours of silence as they waited to see which way the wind was blowing in Istanbul and Ankara.

The Saudis waited 15 hours before issuing a statement supporting Erdogan. The Emiratis and the media they controlled spread the message that Erdogan had fled the country.

The exact opposite was the truth. Erdogan showed bravery getting into a plane and heading for Istanbul knowing F16s were in the air and that the runway at Ataturk airport could have been closed.

Only three countries in the world clearly supported Erdogan from the start – Morocco, Qatar, and Sudan.”
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July 18, 2016 6:23pm
Shawn Herles

“Shawn doesn’t know what propaganda is.”

Sure I do. You post rather a lot of Russian propaganda, so you should too. And I know memes and propaganda are not the same thing.

“And here’s one from his mate, Richard Dawkins”

LMAO!!! 🙂

And that’s the second quote you have not provided a link for Reid. What are you hiding? 🙂
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July 18, 2016 6:25pm
Reid

that’s the second quote you have not provided a link for Reid. What are you hiding?

Crikey Shawn if you don’t even know you can copy and paste a sentence into google and lo the source appears, then you don’t know much, do ya.

You’d be surprised to learn how few people will be surprised to learn how unsurprising that revelation which you didn’t mean to make was.

🙂

LMAO

[Whatever that means]
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July 18, 2016 6:52pm
Scott Chris

calendar girl (1,857 comments) says:
July 18th, 2016 at 6:18 pm
Re this morning’s 3-fatality head-on collision of a car and a truck on the Desert Road, I’m surprised that the Police have publicly announced to the media that the driver of the car was responsible. The car crossed the centre-line, according to the Police.

Is it just me who’s uncomfortable with this kind of public allocation of blame by the Police?

No you twit. It’s the Police saying the truck wasn’t a weapon of terrorism or avoiding a pokemon. Get with the times.
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July 18, 2016 7:03pm
Captain Mainwaring

So Paddy the gnome is over in the States flat-out growing a silly little goatee to make him look even more like a weasel.
It’s working.
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July 18, 2016 7:09pm
Scott Chris

Shawn Herles (14,219 comments) says:
July 18th, 2016 at 5:58 pm
“And the memes begin…”

Reid doesn’t know what a meme is.

Here’s a meme for you dickhead;

Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth
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July 18, 2016 7:10pm
Happychappy

I am surprised that no one has run a story about Deborah Russell the tax law specialist who gives advice to The Hub, the Herald and Stuff on the tax evasion and trusts like the Panama tax leaks whils’t making hits on the National Party at the same time.Well I would like to know why this same Person still maintains her Labour Party conection as seen in the Taranaki daily news on Saturday in the photo of the Taranaki Labour Party 100year celebrations wearing her red rosette.Why is the media using a Labour Party member to discuss tax problems and do hits on the Government when they know she is a active member of a opposition Party and has biased views
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July 18, 2016 7:10pm
stigie

“Why is the media using a Labour Party member to discuss tax problems and do hits on the Government when they know she is a active member of a opposition Party and has biased views”

Because Happychappy, it’s different when Labour and the left do it !~
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July 18, 2016 7:16pm
Nostradamus

Scott Chris:

you twit
you dickhead

Oh goodness – you seem a bit upset. I hope you Starboard haven’t fallen out?
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July 18, 2016 7:21pm
Morrissey

1.) Reply to Shawn @ 2:40 pm: That link has no merit whatsoever. It’s almost as bizarre, and almost as funny (unintentionally) as the claim you made at 12:11 p.m.

2.) Reply to Sam @ 2:50 pm: Thanks very much for posting up that excellent demolition job.
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July 18, 2016 7:23pm
Shawn Herles

Morrisey

“That link has no merit whatsoever.”

That’s not an argument.

And I read sam’s response, and it was not terribly convincing. A lot of “what is the meaning of lie” argument along the lines of Bill Clinton’s “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is”

” It’s almost as bizarre, and almost as funny (unintentionally) as the claim you made at 12:11 p.m.”

You mean the factually accurate one?

Lefty political correctness does not equal reality.
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July 18, 2016 7:38pm
Shawn Herles

@Scott Chris

“Here’s a meme for you dickhead;

Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth”

Might want to take that advice yourself Scott.

This is the General Debate thread. It’s for debating. That means arguments, back and forth.

If your unhappy with debates and arguments, you’re in the wrong place.

“No you twit.”

Scott, are you a male feminist? Are you having your monthly sympathy period? 🙂
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July 18, 2016 7:41pm
Morrissey

The link provided by Sam elegantly and irrefutably demonstrates the lack of merit in Mr Bogdanor’s sad little bit of internet warfare. I have to give the poor fellow an A for effort even though what he wrote, or cut-and-pasted, is risibly substandard. Perhaps he could get a job on the faculty at Harvard Law School, which seems to have a very low entry criterion.

About your 12:11 claim, I think you know as well as everybody else on this board that what you claimed was a bizarre inversion of the truth.
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July 18, 2016 7:48pm
sam green

“Lefty political correctness does not equal reality.”

No – we reserve reality for right wing distortionism.
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July 18, 2016 7:52pm
dad4justice

sam green are you really James Sleep?
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July 18, 2016 7:53pm
Stars And Stripes

“Perhaps he could get a job on the faculty at Harvard Law School, which seems to have a very low entry criterion.”

I doubt it would be lower than Maori have to achieve for entry in NZ.
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July 18, 2016 7:53pm
Shawn Herles

@ Reid

“Crikey Shawn if you don’t even know you can copy and paste a sentence into google and lo the source appears, then you don’t know much, do ya.”

I know that Reid. But nobody is going to bother doing that. And I’m just curious as to why you’re suddenly doing it, and not even citing the author at the top of the post.

Regardless of why, it makes you look shifty and as though you are trying to hide the source, to some degree at least.
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July 18, 2016 7:55pm

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