General Debate 16 May 2019

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krazykiwi

A non-binding talkfest about restricting on-line extremist content … and one of the first public actions was, and I quote RNZ’s Paris correspondent, “.. to shovel the media out the door after about 60 seconds”.

Free speech is being suppressed, one virtue-signal at a time.
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May 16, 2019 8:00am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Hate Speech is being suppressed, without actually defining what Hate Speech is.
  
  Herein lies the problem.
  
  As Orwell wrote when Winston said of Big Brother “I Hate Him”
  
  “You must love him”
  
  All hate is subjective. I hate the policies of this Labour Government. Within this accord lies the seeds of the government telling me what I can and cannot like or hate.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:15am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    If you base your decisions on “feelz” then you will have an affinity for the term “hate speech.”
    People who say “that’s hate speech” are projecting their emotions on to others. Since these people do not use facts or logic to analyze a social issue, all they have are their emotions. Anyone who disagrees with them must be (by default) a “hater.”
    Beware of the term “hate speech” as it seeks to delegitimize dialog based on facts or logic, and demands blind conformity.
    
    “Hate speech” is the attack dog of the authoritarian. When I hear it, I want to reach for my metaphorical 9-mm loaded with rounds of truth, facts, logic, and rational analysis.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:28am
    - septic skeptic
      
      But once hate speech is outlawed, a different government might use some different definitions. For instance if you were advocating that some council seats were reserved for a certain ethnicity, that could easily be seen as promoting apartheid and anyone saying that could be in breach of the law.
      
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      May 16, 2019 10:21am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Exactly, the Devil is in the definition.
        I am against the notion of (top-down) “control of speech” because to control speech is to control thought (the authoritarian’s dream).
        
        Control of speech must be from the “bottom up,” i.e., be left to the judgement of the individual; not of the State.
        
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        May 16, 2019 10:55am
      - hullkiwi
        
        It is not only in the definition, but it is also in the interpretation of the ages. Look how words and phrase change. When I was boy “gaytime” was a brand of ice cream and the words “gay ol’time” were sung in the opening and closing credits of a popular 1960/70s Hanna Barbera cartoon.
        
        Today to use such words in the original context would make you homophobic and some who uses hate speech. It just shows you how difficult it will be to codify such language use into legislation and keep it relevant for the times.
        
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        May 16, 2019 6:10pm
    - Nickc2
      
      So a bolshy Marxist fish and chip wrapper turned unelected Prime Minister from Morrinsville in little old New Zealand wants to censor the internet. Good luck with that I say! The only thing she has achieved is to make us the laughing stock of the world.
      
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      May 16, 2019 11:59am
- G152
  
  The internet has this capability of ignoring such soyboy feel good stuff.
  I can see new video sharing groups rising out of this and the dark web growing by the day as people move away from this attempt at censorship.
  And where (if it was such a big deal) were all the other leaders, movers and shakers ?????
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:24am
  - sooty
    
    “Peace In Our Times”. Said Cindy!
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:37am
  - calendar girl
    
    Censorship is exactly the term, G152. It could also be applied to the actions of a grouping of five major New Zealand news entities (including two operated by the NZ Government) who have reached a deal on what they will and won’t report from the forthcoming Brenton Tarrant trial for 51 murders.
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:51am
  - BananaLlama
    
    If the U.S won’t sign then the deal is as good as dead. There is a reason why NZ has no IT industry and the U.S has the largest in the world and that reason is politicians like Jacinda.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:01am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Considering their constitution
      Copying JA would be seen as anti the first and second amendments, this would destroy any chance Trump has of a 2nd term.
      Any one of his opponents even comment in a positive way towards this, will give Trump ammunition for the same election.
      
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      May 16, 2019 11:31am
  - freethinker
    
    In reality there was no body of any moment capable of achieving anything in attendance. The common factors were Failures at home, Liars,stubborn – May – Brexit, Micron – Yellow Vests, ardern – everything.
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:10am
- cas
  
  I look forward to similar action by Saint jacinda on very violent gaming and movies.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:29am
  - Batman
    
    Neither of which have been proven to contribute to violent extremism.
    
    Social isolation and web forums like 8chan however…..
    
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    May 16, 2019 2:05pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Free speech is being suppressed, one virtue-signal at a time.”
  
  Nonsense as one” virtue-signal” at a time amply illustrates on KB and elsewhere!
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:27am
  - Dafixeruppa
    
    Is this a new stephieboy? Despite being uncouth, impolite and sadly predictable, this one can string a coherent sentence together.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:43am
- herb1
  
  Great work Jacinda.
  If someone massacres 51 people in future and livestream it , they could be banned for 30 or more days , from the Facebook livestream feature.
  I’m sure that sort of punishment , will make them regret their actions , when they face a life time of jail.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:33am
- Tall Man
  
  No, just negative speech.
  
  Criticisms of the lefty and any of their appointed gods and goddesses.
  
  How did we get here FFS.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:24pm
NeutralObserver

Genuine question. Was anyone from Christchurch actually at the ChCh call in Paris? Or was it the PM and Wellington officials only.
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May 16, 2019 8:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Jordan Carter, the boss of Internet New Zealand was a Labour Party candidate in Christchurch a number of years ago; does that count?
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:09am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Tony, I know that Jordan Carter was a Labour Party candidate for Hunua in 2008 but as a Christchurch resident I have no knowledge of him as a candidate down this way. Are you sure?
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:16am
    - peterwn
      
      So he is basically a failed wannabe Labour MP. If he had campaigned impressively in Hunua (blue ribbon territory) he would have been given a winnable seat and reasonable list position in 2011.
      
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      May 16, 2019 8:53am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Peter, it makes him perfect for a high up Labour List position at the next election.
        
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        May 16, 2019 6:13pm
  - NeutralObserver
    
    Thanks Tony – I meant more someone affected by the events and living with the consequences and that is dealing with the aftermath. A mayor, city councillor, local police man or the like.
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:36am
- JibberJabber
  
  https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2019/05/what-hell-are-jordan-and-senegal-doing.html
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:38am
Wayne

Anyone think that Trump has grasped the fact that tarrifs are paid by US consumers and companies?
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May 16, 2019 8:03am
- All_on_Red
  
  Yes
  Do you understand how the tariffs are being applied?
  ‘In this analysis we show that, contrary to public opinion, the greatest share of the tariff burden falls not on American consumers or firms, but on Chinese exporters. We calibrate a simple economic model and find that a 25 percentage point increase in tariffs raises US consumer prices on all affected Chinese products by only 4.5% on average, while the producer price of Chinese firms declines by 20.5%. The US government has strategically levied import duties on goods with high import elasticities, which transfers a great share of the tariff burden on to Chi nese exporters. Chinese firms pay approximately 75% of the tariff burden and the tariffs decrease Chinese exports of affected goods to the United States by around 37%. This implies that the bilateral trade deficit between the US and China drops by 17%. The addditional tariffs generate revenues of around USD 22.5 billion, which could subsequently be redistributed in the US. Although the tariffs introduce a distortion to US consumption decisions, the economic costs are shifted to Chinese exporting firms and the US govern- ment is able to extract a net welfare gain of USD 18.4 billion’
  http://www.econpol.eu/sites/default/files/2018-11/EconPol_Policy_Brief_11_Zoller_Felbermayr_Tariffs.pdf
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    There’s not anything like a consensus position on how the economic impacts will fall. The US trade deficit with China has worsened since the first round of tariffs, and quick calculations suggest the impact of Trump’s tax increase will cost about $500 per US household.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:16am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Citataions needed
      
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      May 16, 2019 9:27am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Citations needed
      You didn’t read the report did you.
      
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      May 16, 2019 9:28am
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘The US Trade deficit with China has worsened etc’
        
        That’s not true
        ‘The politically sensitive goods trade deficit with China decreased to a five-year low of USD 20.7 billion in March from USD 24.8 billion in February.’
        ‘Imports from China slumped 6%’
        https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade
        
        One of the reasonsTrump has been signalling this Trade War with China for two years is to allow US companies to adapt by either manufacturing locally or by sourcing product from other countries.
        Footwear and clothes from say Thailand or Vietnam for example
        
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        May 16, 2019 9:35am
    - freethinker
      
      The Chinese exporters & US Importers preempted the tariffs by forward buying/selling a normal phenomena so best to wait for 6 months to see how it plays out.
      
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      May 16, 2019 10:16am
  - stephieboy
    
    citations needed?
    
    Here,
    
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/trumps-new-tariffs-will-cost-americans-about-500-per-household-by-one-estimate.html
    
    Read the above!
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:32am
    - All_on_Red
      
      From your link
      ‘The job market could also take a hit thanks to trade turmoil. The current tariff rise could result in 200,000 fewer jobs, with growth falling below 2% in early 2020, according to Oxford Economics.’
      
      Current job and GDP data contradicts this assertion. Companies are switching sources.
      Mind you that $500 is easily absorbed due to Tax Cuts and the recent Wage Growth.
      No one is saying tariffs are good long term. Trump is clear he prefers Tariff free trade.
      But everyone all agrees that the deficit with China needs to be addressed- along with some of their other behaviour
      
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      May 16, 2019 10:02am
      - freethinker
        
        Trump will also understand that reduced Chinese exports equals more unemployment (Social unrest) lower taxes (less Govt funds for Military & Social spending) and less foreign capital investment and free technology transfers. On the other side reduced Chinese imports and higher prices may make some import substitution with locally made goods profitable.
        
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        May 16, 2019 10:19am
      - stephieboy
        
        Trump’s China Tariffs only work if Americans pay for them,
        
        http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/trumps-china-tariffs-only-work-if-americans-pay-them.html
        
        ” President Trump is fond of saying China “pays” the tariffs he imposed, and a lot of journalists (including me) are fond of pointing out the tariffs are actually paid by Americans. Specifically, they are paid by American importers of foreign goods, who will presumably seek to pass the cost of the tariff on to end consumers.
        
        The New York Times points to recent economic research on Trump’s tariffs, including two papers estimating that 100 percent of the cost of tariffs is being borne by American consumers. One of the research teams determined this by looking at changes in the price indices for highly specific goods. They found the price of products not subject to new tariffs remained more or less flat, while products subject to new tariffs went up in price about in proportion to the tariffs imposed. That’s pretty straightforward: Americans pay….”.
        
        Presumably, you feel his China Tariffs makes good sense for NZ Trade policy also?
        
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        May 16, 2019 1:45pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I dont think you really understand what you are reading..
        From your link
        ‘In practice, the economic effect of Trump’s tariffs has not been especially large, at least so far. Both of the papers discussed by the Times found a welfare loss to Americans of about $20 per person from Trump’s tariffs in 2018.’
        I’m sure $20 is well offset by wage growth and tax cuts.Nice own goal Stephie. Lol
        
        “Presumably, you feel his China Tariffs makes good sense for NZ Trade policy also?”
        Well no. Because we export more to China than we import.
        You really are dumb.
        
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        May 16, 2019 2:57pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Not if they stop buying Chinese imports.
      Afterall, they are only buying this stuff, because it’s cheap.
      In China, just like their relationship with us, is to secure the food supply for their own people (from comments they have made to us, around Chinese imports and investments).
      Like us the US can do without that extra ‘T’ shirt.
      But the Chinese will have difficulty doing without 10% of their food supply.
      Yes, the chinese could buy from elsewhere, but there aren’t too many places with the kind of surplus of food that the US is producing.
      and
      The most precious commodity for the Chinese, is time, how long will it take to replace that food import.
      A lot longer than it will take to decide to NOT buy that cheap new ‘T’ shirt.
      
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      May 16, 2019 10:08am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        A solution:
        We (NZ) become the broker.
        For a fee of half the tariff, we buy the goods from China and sell tariff free and to the USA.
        and
        For a fee of half the tariff, we buy the goods from The USA and sell tariff free and to China.
        With a sufficient delay time for the money transfers to mean that we don’t have to stump up with the initial payment.
        
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        May 16, 2019 11:16am
  - Hacked-Off
    
    That’s not what his own Economic Advisor said on Fox News – He said that US tariffs would affect both, making a lie of what his Boss was saying.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:46am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Was that Larry Kudlow talking to Chris Wallace?
      Transcript here. Trump actually qualified his statement to say ‘largely paid by China’
      Note this comment from Ludlow on how much it will cost US consumers after Wallace threw some estimates at him.
      ‘KUDLOW: Our work on CEA and NEC think those are pretty wildly exaggerated numbers. I would suggest that if you go the whole boat, 200 billion increase from 10 to 25, plus the other 300 billion, we reckon it would be about two tenths of 1 percent of GDP, so it’s a very modest number. We have a $20 trillion GDP.
      In terms of possible job losses, we are way, way below that number.
      And I want to note here: the United States economy is in a boom. The numbers are coming in terrific, better than anybody expected on growth, on jobs, on unemployment, on wages, on productivity, we are in terrific shape.
      In order to correct 20 years plus of unfair trading practices with China, as I said, unlawful trading practices, I think this is a risk we should and can take without damaging our economy in any appreciable way.’
      https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/stepping-out-of-warren-buffetts-shadow
      
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      May 16, 2019 10:18am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Elasticities are fine in Euro-Academic modelers ruminations. The reality is that tariffs at the USA border will be absorbed by the importers agents or passed on to the consumers–which is more likely? Any avoidance will take time.
    
    Expect tariffed Chinese imports to be more expensive hence the cost of living. The converse is also true USA imports to China will be dearer there with retaliatory tariffs. Neither country benefits. That inflation can impact global price levels.
    
    For too long the USA has promoted globalisation and allowed off-shoring of profits eroding their tax base. Manufacturers have sought to contain costs taking production outside NZ too. In theory we can sell grass products, mountain scenery or poi dances to buy those goods back but not the jobs lost.
    
    Tariffs have been invoked over the centuries but cannot repair the consequential changes of bad economic management. They are like a war dance at twilight.
    
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    May 16, 2019 11:02am
- Scott
  
  Wayne – there is certainly some pain associated with the tariffs on Chinese goods. However Pres Trump is the first president to really stand up to China in decades. Don’t forget the China rips off American companies by forced technology transfers, stealing intellectual property and one-sided trade deals. The calculus has been that China will eventually start playing fair as they become part of the global community.
  
  While the fact of the matter is that China has not reformed its practices at all. So someone has to make a stand and Trump is doing that. His stance on China also has bilateral support from people such as Democrat leader Chuck Schumer.
  
  I think New Zealand should be very careful about its trade with China as well. A lot of manufacturing in this country has gone to the wall because of competition from cheap Chinese imports. It’s sad because we used to make things. We used to assemble cars, we used to make stereos, we used to make shoes and clothing. We even used to make trains.
  
  Oh for some New Zealand politician to grasp the nettle on these issues!
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:32am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    A little story for ya.
    A company wanted to lower the cost of manufacture of their products.
    The Chinese company said yes and agreed to inspections etc regarding quality.
    However
    They made them sign an agreement to the amount to be manufactured for them, with the originating company’s name on.
    Any EXTRA product, was re tagged with a generic name and sold on the open market for less than the “branded” product.
    Moral of the story, beware what you agree to.
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:13am
  - Batman
    
    Scott – the only reason we used to assemble cars here was because we had some completely nutty tariffs which resulted in manufacturers importing cars is a disassembled state and then assembling them here, increasing the cost of them and thus the price consumers paid.
    
    It was idiotic and thankfully is long gone!
    
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    May 16, 2019 2:14pm
Lee C

Will the All Blacks Haka be classed as ‘hate speech’ sometime soon? https://youtu.be/dhkXd2KtG-M
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May 16, 2019 8:04am
- Yvette
  
  When you extend your tongue, you’re saying to your enemies, “I’m going to eat eat you.
  Your eyes will roll back, your head will be stuck on the end of my stick”
  Feel the ihi [excitement] – “Whale Rider” movie
  
  “My mouth waters and I lick my lips for soon I will taste your flesh”
  It does seems a little like hate speech except the definition will have to include gestures and actions.
  I have seen enough explanations to suggest that to some, at some times, the extended tongue and rolled eyes are intended to depict what a head on a stake looks like – as many disfavourable references as make the use of the word pakeha doubtful.
  And there seems little doubt that the haka is an act of incitement – ihi.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:55am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Yes, the new haka will be “all (baba) black sheep”.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:30am
    - freethinker
      
      Not acceptable it will be Ba Ba Sheep of colour, there fixed it for you.
      
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      May 16, 2019 10:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:17am
- waikatogirl
  
  I wonder if Marama Davidson’s father, in the scene taught, her how to handle herself when speaking in public?
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:18pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  No, it doesn’t work that way.
  
  “Hate speech” only applies to “privaleged” oppressor groups. Members of an officially recognized oppressed minority CANNOT be guilt of hate speech or racism.
  
  //
  
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  May 16, 2019 6:51pm
Maggie Pie

Ive been thinking. Ritchie Hardcore and Alx Swney have gone very quiet.
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May 16, 2019 8:05am
- JibberJabber
  
  Musta got the hard word to STFU.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:40am
  - Tall Man
    
    Nope, just told to be patient as all good things come to he who waits……….
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:31pm
cmm

So the “professional arsehole” didn’t sign up to the PriNZess’ virtue signalling charade with Macron. Any surprises?

It is all very well having these aspirations to clean up the internet, but what they ask for is impossible. Silly virtue signalling aspirations have negative consequences.

The technology just can’t do what they want. Bad technology, but full points to the people that just want!
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May 16, 2019 8:05am
- Tall Man
  
  I don’t get all the fuss about “cleaning up the internet”.
  
  If there is something there you don’t like the look of, don’t look.
  
  Is it that hard to hit “delete” or not hit “enter”?
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:34pm
Happychappy

This is a very good article on kiwibuild and a must read on Phil Twyford and his inability to make it work.
https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/99665/david-hargreaves-tries-make-sense-what-government-may-be-planning-so-called
Will Jacinda sack the incompetent Twyford and cut the rope from Labours neck or will she just sit back and blame National for inept management or admit Labour have failed.
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May 16, 2019 8:06am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Thanks for the link Happychappy. The point is to build 100,000 new houses in 10 years you need three ingredients.
  
  1. Zoned land.
  2. Labour to build the houses.
  3. Materials to build the houses.
  
  1 is easy, we have the land it just requires regulation to consent zoning.
  
  2 and 3 were never explained especially when Labour were also looking to reduce immigration on top of a serious deficit in building skills availability and there was no explanation if the material supply companies had the infrastructure to cope with the increased demand.
  
  This was a Politics 101 example of policy on the hoof from the Party they never expected to have to deliver the policy.
  
  The Nats should continue to rub it in. There will be plenty of disappointed potential first home buyers with parents and grand parents who will be very pissed off with Labour come election day 2020.
  
  It is what I call a Hip Pocket Issue one that an opposition party can hammer home.
  
  The Nats only need 3 or 4 of these and to keep hammering at them in the lead up to the election.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:05am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    You forgot one
    EXTRA builders etc, to build the houses.
    Pocket calculator cost over 10 years, their numbers did not account for RISING costs.
    Unless we have zero inflation and builders agree to not getting a pay rise for 10 years.
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:55am
Komata

LeeC@0804

Nah, to do so would destroy what little credability the CoL still has; Joe Kiwi doesn’t like his icons being tampered with, and Maori would use it to their own ends and make another Treaty claim.

Better not to rock the boat (at least not for now).

(0808)
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May 16, 2019 8:09am
Hugh Pavletich

… CHINA …

Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/05/links-16-may-2019/#comment-3348279

… Essential viewing …

Steve Bannon: ‘No chance’ Trump will back down in China trade war … CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/15/steve-bannon-no-chance-trump-is-going-to-back-down-in-the-china-trade-war.html
.
.
Hong Kong sounds the alarm on Chinese capital flight … Ambrose Evans – Pritchard … UK Telegraph (behind paywall)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/05/14/hong-kong-sounds-alarm-chinese-capital-flight/

China’s empty homes may prove a bigger threat than Donald Trump’s tariffs … Michael Janda … ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-14/china-vacant-property-empty-homes-donald-trump-tariffs/11082900
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May 16, 2019 8:14am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  … AUSTRALIA …
  
  Scummo kow tows to tyranny as US fights for liberal democracy … MacroBusiness Australia
  
  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/05/scummo-kow-tows-as-us-fights-for-liberal-democracy/
  
  If you want a demonstration of just how pathetic, hypocritical, empty, corrupt and dangerous Australian leadership has become, look no further than this, via Domain: … view and read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Some very nasty online abuse

https://yournz.org/2019/05/16/online-threats-against-ghahraman-continue/
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May 16, 2019 8:16am
- Jules99
  
  What is interesting is how it is selective and doesn’t provide much context. Like a cut and paste trailer of a movie with the best bits. Looking at the Pauli guy’s Twitter feed, I can’t see anything most of us here would find too “abhorrent”.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:35am
- All_on_Red
  
  Ironic considering the abuse some of the commentators on YourNz indulge in.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:46am
- Happychappy
  
  I don’t agree with the threatening posts on social media by anyone but it is a bit ridiculous by the left to be complaining now when it was alright for them to threaten John Key’s family and Paula Bennett when National were in power, were they called White
  Supremacists then. Tova O’Brien and Patrick Gower have pushed their opinions for everyone to read and their comments breed hate the same as Ghahraman does but here it is for all to see nothing is ever done about their comments. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/jacinda-ardern-admits-new-zealand-s-been-too-focused-on-islamic-extremism.html
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:51am
- Alien
  
  These people are no better than those who attacked national politicians, and I’d be willing to bet they were against that but carry it out themselves now
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:17am
dave_c_

What’s all this bollocks about ‘enforcing social media app owners to monitor and manage the way their customers use their services’???
I see no uprising to expect the manufacturers of vehicles, lawnmowers, electric carving knives . . . to be responsible for the way their customers use their products !!
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May 16, 2019 8:18am
hullkiwi

NZ, is about to become the UK of the Pacific, thanks to the CoL and 15/03/19. That is the go to country for economic migrants wanting easy welfare.

I’m not saying 15/03/19 wasn’t a tragic event, it was. But really…is it an excuse for easy immigration and now welfare?

Seems, some of those at the mosques aren’t entitled to welfare or ACC because they aren’t residents or in work. However, that isn’t stopping Woods and the CoL. Regulations are to go through cabinet to provide support for full income support, paying off mortgages (Woods’ words on RNZ Morning Report at 7.40am), providing support to teach English, provide assistance with driving lessons to get a drivers licence. Then there was talk of on going mental health support.

My questions are:
1. when does this largess stop?;
2. Are Kiwis going to get the same reciprocal rights in the countries of these “victims”?; and
3. Who are the muggs who are paying for this?; and
4. When do they stop making people income dependent on welfare?
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May 16, 2019 8:19am
- Scott
  
  hullkiwi – all very good questions. Here’s what I think are the answers –
  1. when does this largess stop?;
  It never stops. The Christchurch terrorist was manna from heaven in that he confirmed the leftist worldview that the main problems of the world are due to white men. According to news reports yesterday the government sees that white supremacy is a huge problem and will be addressed by hate speech laws et cetera et cetera. The idea of a lone wolf simply does not equate with their worldview because they sincerely believe that white men are the cause of everything that is wrong with the world.
  
  2. Are Kiwis going to get the same reciprocal rights in the countries of these “victims”?;
  Absolutely not! In Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia it is illegal to have a church. There are also no Jews in Saudi Arabia. Our white western liberal politicians never ask anything of Muslims and almost never stand up for Christian minorities in Muslim countries.
  
  and
  3. Who are the muggs who are paying for this?;
  I think you know the answer to that. You are my friend with your taxes.
  
  and
  4. When do they stop making people income dependent on welfare?
  They will stop making people dependent on welfare the minute those people start voting National. At present they see them as reliable labour voters. Along with free tertiary education it’s a reliable way of buying votes.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:02am
- Alien
  
  You don’t need to be a resident to get ACC. Tourists qualify for ACC so not sure why these victims wouldnt
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:15am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Not true, as non residents they weren’t in work, so they are being turned down for ACC. Some are claiming for mental trauma although not injured and are being turned down.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:52am
  - alloytoo
    
    ACC would cover immediate medical costs, nothing more.
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:33am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Isn’t there already a large fund that provide this largess?
  Is it true that many involved were only visitors and are to be granted permanent residency?
  
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  May 16, 2019 11:11am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Yes under the “Christchurch Visa” scheme.
    
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    May 16, 2019 12:39pm
Lee C

Where are the unions on this – you know, when they aren’t bankrolling the likes of Andrew Little as he prepares for his lucrative career in Parliament?

Probably the same place as when they agreed to sign off on the reduced safety measures at Pike River under Helen Clark. Curiously keen to pass blame onto ‘neoliberals’ when their own workers get grief.

Are we going to see protests?

Will there be a massive facebook petition about the Government culling jobs?

A protest march on the Beehive?

Will popular actors, artists, musicians and sportspeople rally and offer their views to persuade the Government to resile?

Will there be searching and slightly sarcastic interviews on RNZ?

Will there be a series of articles ‘exposing’ the practices of a Governemnt stymied not by reason, but ideology?

Oh sorry, I forgot. IT’s just working people’s livelihoods, they’ll get over it, and besides,

It’s different when the left do it.
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May 16, 2019 8:19am
Paulus

“Today is the first day of our new life” – Ardern says so, so in which case get the f… back here and sort out the numerous messes you have created.
Paris in the Spring is only for the disillusioned people like her and her family and her media sycophants, O’Brien, Marvelly, and her close feminist adoring comrades.
Look at the money spent in flying a great fuel guzzling plane and the lavish lifestyle of her and her participants whilst the children she cherishes are still and increasingly in Poverdy.
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May 16, 2019 8:21am
- cmm
  
  Every day she’s in Paris is one day less making a mess here.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:34am
  - sooty
    
    The clowns have been left in charge!
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:42am
  - Rich Prick
    
    The trouble is she has plenty of helpers doing the heavy lifting when it comes to creating messes.
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:59am
    - dave_c_
      
      “Heavy lifting” – lol – They’re ‘freewheeling’.
      
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      May 16, 2019 9:06am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Labour’s definition of “heavy lifting”, in a Governing sense.
        Is just to throw more of OUR money at an issue they created and therefore deem worthy.
        
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        May 16, 2019 9:33am
G152

The left want to run everything.
Free speech is only allowed if it is their free speech
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May 16, 2019 8:26am
Maggie Pie

A friend of my partner is a free-lance cameraman. He was telling us that a few weeks back he was contacted about a movie project that was in the pipeline, by well known Egyptian film producer Moez Masoud. It was to be about the deadly terror attacks at the El Noor Mosque and Linwood Islamic Centre in Christchurch. Apparently, the brief synopsis he received had the proposed movie title as: ‘The Man with No Name’. My partner’s friend quickly replied and told them they would need to review that, as Clint Eastwood had released a cowboy movie by that name about 50 years ago.
Consequently, it will now be called: “Hello, Brother”.
As my partner said, the last thing you’d want was to have audiences thinking it was a ‘Western’.

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1128440623978008576
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May 16, 2019 8:34am
- SGA
  
  ‘The Man with No Name’. My partner’s friend quickly replied and told them they would need to review that, as Clint Eastwood had released a cowboy movie by that name about 50 years ago.
  
  I don’t think that’s the case. “The man with no name” was the character that Eastwood portrayed in the trilogy – Fistful of dollars, For a few dollars more, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (where Tuco calls him ‘Blondie’ throughout).
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Agreed, that’s the character, not the Movie title. It was used in the advertizing for the series. Not sure but possibly High Plains Drifter is a reprise of that character.
    
    /movie pedant mode
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:25am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I txtd my partner about that – he just came back with this link (?)
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250570/
    
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    May 16, 2019 11:07am
    - SGA
      
      That seems to be a BBC 1-hour documentary about the life of Clint Eastwood.
      
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      May 16, 2019 2:21pm
  - alloytoo
    
    I believe it’s often referred to as the “Man with no name” trilogy.
    
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    May 16, 2019 3:01pm
- rangitoto
  
  Will it be banned by the NZ censor.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:21am
- Fletch
  
  Who would play Cindy in the movie?
  
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  May 16, 2019 11:45am
  - Fletch
    
    Hillary Swank?
    
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    May 16, 2019 12:05pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Who cares. Mr Ed?
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:22pm
Lee C

Maggy – online abuse of Golriz Ghahraman is unacceptable, vile and ignorant.

The people who do it should hang their heads in shame. There is no ‘two-wrongs-make-a-right’ defence of it.
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May 16, 2019 8:43am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Meh, is just ugly banter. Likely these people will joke around with like minded friends saying similar things socially. Policing the internet is not going to stop it, just drive it underground and make it more venomous. At least out in the open there will be people to pull them up and stop it from being normalised within their group. That’s the real danger of the type of free-speech suppression that is being enacted – it just drives it to darker hidden extremes.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:54am
- All_on_Red
  
  I agree. It’s vile behaviour calling for someone to be hung.
  But the problem is when legitimate criticism is taken as being ‘abuse’.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:54am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Tweeting about Lynching someone, or turning them into a chandelier, isn’t legitimate criticism.
    
    It is personal, threatening, sick behaviour.
    
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    May 16, 2019 8:57am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Read my post again.
      I agree with you. But the issue is when the vile abuse is used as an excuse to suppress legitimate criticism. That’s the danger.
      This is pertinent fromtoday in the U.K.
      ‘Police leaders have raised concerns that a proposed definition of Islamophobia will undermine counterterror operations and threaten freedom of speech.
      In a letter to the prime minister, the head of the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) said the change could “undermine many elements of counterterrorism powers and policies”, including port stops, bans on terrorist groups and propaganda, and the legal duty requiring schools, councils and the NHS to report suspected extremism.
      NPCC chair Martin Hewitt said: “We take all reports of hate crime very seriously and will investigate them thoroughly; however, we have some concerns about the proposed definition of ‘Islamophobia’ made by the All-Party Parliamentary Group [APPG] on British Muslims.
      “We are concerned that the definition is too broad as currently drafted, could cause confusion for officers enforcing it and could be used to challenge legitimate free speech on the historical or theological actions of Islamic states.
      
      “There is also a risk it could also undermine counterterrorism powers, which seek to tackle extremism or prevent terrorism.’
      Source The Independent
      
      See the problem? By redefining the term, legitimate actions and criticism could possibly be stopped.
      
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      May 16, 2019 9:09am
      - sooty
        
        The left and its MPs did not complain when there was the saga over John Key daughter!
        Why are they going bitch face know?
        
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        May 16, 2019 10:02am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I recognise all of that.
        Which is why I keep personal abuse out of my posts…
        Keep the focus on legitimate criticism/ debate… Don’t give the opposition any grounds to close you down… because that’s where things are heading.
        
        The fools threatening/abusing our MPs and PM (whether we like them or not) are doing us no favours.
        
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        May 16, 2019 10:04am
      - lastmanstanding
        
        Suppressing Whites being able to think and speak out about issues they are concerned about is the Agenda of the Left.
        
        They are determined to impose a regime where only Approved Thought and Approved Speech is allowed.
        
        This will extend to retrospective punishment so the Hate Speech Laws will be amended retrospectively if the Left wish.
        
        This allows the Left to slowly but surely stamp out speech that they object to one step at a time.
        
        Its like the frog in the slowly heating pot of water.
        
        The citizens are told the Hate Speech Laws are for their own protection and then bit by bit more Hate Speech is added until the same citizens find the Laws now prohibit thoughts and speech they find acceptable but the State doesnt.
        
        History has many lessons. Dr Google and Wikipedia are two good places to seek out references.
        
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        May 16, 2019 10:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The people who do it should hang their heads in shame
  
  The people who do it are anonymous cowards.
  
  At least Golriz Ghahraman can expect that there will be some investigation into the identity of her abusers.
  
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  May 16, 2019 8:54am
  - Ross12
    
    I agree with you Maggy.
    But remember what happened with the rapper and his song mentioning raping John Key’s daughter. No condemnation from the left.
    So yes, I think we should rise above their “standards”.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:18am
    - stephieboy
      
      Roos12, two wrongs don’t make a right,
      
      https://twitter.com/golrizghahraman/status/1128535746090942464
      
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      May 16, 2019 9:41am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        So, I imagine you have the Quote of her condemning
        the “song mentioning raping John Key’s daughter. “?
        
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        May 16, 2019 9:59am
      - Ross12
        
        Stephieboy clearly did not have extra comprehension lessons on his time off.
        What do you think I meant with ?
        “So yes, I think we should rise above their “standards” “
        
        12 1
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        May 16, 2019 10:40am
- RW Capitalist
  
  And there in lies the neat thing about freedom of speech.
  We get to either
  Ignore assholes like this
  or
  Argue/rail against them.
  If you don’t get that chance, they get to spread vile stuff like this, unchecked.
  Ask your doctor what happens to an infection if untreated.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:36am
hullkiwi

DPF and moderators what is happening?

My comment posted at 8.19am is still in moderation. The post was based on Megan Woods interview on RNZ this morning with Corin Dann at 7.40am.

Where is the problem that this should be held up?
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May 16, 2019 8:48am
burt

Anyone heard any news on the sexual predator who was protected by the Labour Party having their day in court?
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May 16, 2019 8:52am
- Inandout
  
  burt, look Paris, look FB, Jacinda crashing the talkfest..look.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:11am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Look BABY, look engagement….
    
    22 1
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    May 16, 2019 9:37am
    - sooty
      
      Would you like to push my pram?
      
      10 0
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      May 16, 2019 9:57am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Is that a euphemism?
        
        9 0
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        May 16, 2019 10:16am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        A clean sweep?
        
        5 0
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        May 16, 2019 1:13pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Acktually, on Monday on the snooze in her red dress walking towards camera, I percieved a bump in the front which would may another first baby about Christmas! Am I paranoid or is it just a reconfiguration of the body mass brought on by too many canapes in first class?
      
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      May 16, 2019 1:38pm
- Souvlaki
  
  Perhaps Mike Hosking can ask St J next Tuesday morning.
  There is a lot of public interest in this ….why don’t the Nats follow this up??
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:21am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I believe the court case starts on 22 July.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:21am
  - calendar girl
    
    Thanks, CB. Any idea in what city the Court hearing will be?
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:00am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I am not certain but would presume it would be in Auckland as that is where the defendant last appeared.
      
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      May 16, 2019 2:31pm
- namron
  
  Looks like the Labour Party have successfully “buried” this trial.
  What does it make you think about the fairness and openness of the NZ Justice system?
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:36am
- freethinker
  
  Here are copy e-mails I have with the North Shore district Court who seem less than willing to respond so if any one has information that would help the Registrar identify the case ( Offer of a white stick acceptable) please let me know on GD.
  Thanks Rachel
  
  The names of those involved were supressed so I cannot state a name but the case in question had a very high profile in the media shortly after the alleged incident, I have heard anecdotally that the offenders name may be [deleted by DPF and you will be suspended if you repeat in futue] but I would have thought you may be aware of the matter as the offender was reported by the media and that the case was due to be heard in your court in March 2019. Hope you can help identify the case and whilst I was careful not to ask for details that may be sub judice and really only need information on if the case has been heard or when it will be or were transferred to – Auckland
  
  District Court perhaps. If you are unable to trace I will make further inquiries and perhaps you will advise what information apart from the name subject to suppression will help you. I am happy for any reply to refer only to the case ref. My enquiry is a general public one for the purpose of being able to attend any trial.
  
  Cheers
  
  Mike
  
  From: Thornley, Rachel [mailto:Rachel.Thornley@justice.govt.nz]
  Sent: Friday, 10 May 2019 1:51 p.m.
  
  Subject: FW: Has a trial taken place
  
  Hello Mike
  
  Thank you for your email. I’m uncertain what happened with your earlier message, but this most recent one has been forwarded to me by one of our team today for response.
  
  Unfortunately I am struggling to answer any of your questions at this stage though, as I’m unable to identify the case you are referring to. I am aware of the Labour Party Conference allegations through media reporting, but have no knowledge of such a case currently or recently being heard at the North Shore District Court. This is not to say that such a case was not brought here at all, but simply that I am not aware of its existence and without knowing the name of the defendant or a case number I can’t look up any of the answers to your more specific questions.
  
  Do you have any details of the case specifically that would help us identify it?
  
  Then, if we are able to identify the particular case you are interested in, I would need to know your relationship to the case (if any), or if you making a general public enquiry. For privacy reasons, we are quite restricted in what information can be released publicly, particularly while a case may still be ongoing. Alternatively if you have a relationship to the case (whether the defendant or a victim), there is certain information that can be disclosed via people in particular roles (defence counsel, victim advisors etc) so I could ask the relevant representative to get in touch with you.
  
  My apologies again for the lack of response to your earlier email. If you could please advise any of the further information noted above, I will see what more we can do to help you.
  
  Rachel Thornley
  Service Manager | North Shore District Court
  79 Corinthian Drive | DX BX 10644 | Albany 0632
  DDI +64 9 916 9335 | Ext 59335
  http://www.justice.govt.nz
  
  To: dc, northshore
  Cc: amy.adams@parliament.govt.nz
  Subject: FW: Has a trial taken place
  
  Good Afternoon
  I am disappointed that I neither received an acknowledgment or answer to my e-mail – copy below. As NZ Courts are taxpayer funded and being a taxpayer I expect those employed officials to respond to a request for information or if such information is time consuming to provide either acknowledge and state a date when the information will be provided or advise the information will not be provided with a lawful reason, you have done none of these and instead ignored my reasonable time. If a reply is not forthcoming within a week from today I will make an official information act request and ask my local MP to ask the Minister of Justice for guidance on how the courts should deal with such requests and the timescale.
  Regards
  
  Mike
  
  Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2019 1:39 p.m.
  To: ‘northshore.dc@justice.govt.nz’
  Subject: Has a trial taken place
  
  Good Afternoon
  I understand that a case concerning an alleged sexual offence that occurred during last year’s Labour Party Youth Conference was originally set down for a hearing early/mid March but there has been no publicity on the case so will you please answer the following questions.
  1) What date was the case due for hearing?
  2) Was the case heard on the due date?
  3) If the case was postponed please confirm the new trial date?
  4) If the case was transferred to another court please confirm the address of that court and if a trial date was set for a hearing?
  5) If the case was heard was a decision reached or if a reserved decision when will that decision be announced?
  6) Was name suppression continued ?
  7) If name suppression was lifted please confirm the names of the accused?
  8) If the case is not to proceed please advise the reasons – ie plea bargain etc?
  9) Apart from the allegation of unwanted sexual behaviour were any charges concerning the supply of alcohol to minors laid?
  Regard’s
  
  Mike
  
  Virus-free. http://www.avast.com
  
  ________________________________________
  
  Confidentiality notice:
  This email may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by mistake, please:
  (1) reply promptly to that effect, and remove this email and the reply from your system;
  (2) do not act on this email in any other way.
  Thank you.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:43am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Mail drop your request to EVERY court in the land.
    
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    May 16, 2019 11:37am
    - freethinker
      
      The original reports stated the case was due in the North Shore District court in March 2019 so I suspect they are being deliberately evasive or the case has been transferred or dropped. Perhaps I should write to the Commissioner of Police for information?
      
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      May 16, 2019 4:41pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Children do not necessarily take the surname of their mother.
    
    Many women nowadays do not take the surname of their husband/partner even when they have children together.
    
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    May 16, 2019 1:23pm
Happychappy

Does anyone agree with me that Willy Jackson was not elected to Parliament at the last Election like he claims, he is a list MP selected by his Party to represent Labour in Government not elected.
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May 16, 2019 8:58am
- Alien
  
  And how did he get in, because people gave a party vote that allowed him to be elected. Welcome to MMP. So yes he is elected
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:25am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    He was not elected, as in chosen by voters. His party was elected in sufficient numbers that his place on the list was enough.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:43am
    - Alien
      
      Actually yes he was because people can see who is on the list and decide to give those people on the list their party vote to elect the . Welcome to mmp, if you don’t understand how it works don’t vote
      
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      May 16, 2019 12:50pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Winston got them elected not the party vote.
    
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    May 16, 2019 9:44am
- Alien
  
  BTW under your theory bill English was an unelected minister of finance and prime minister as he was a party vote
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:42am
  - Happychappy
    
    Bill English wasn’t elected to do either as he lost the Election to Winston who selected Labour to go into a coalition. He became PM because his caucus selected him to be Leader, the same as happened when JohnKey selected him to be Minister of Finance.
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:14am
    - Alien
      
      Bill English was a list mp only from 2014 until he retired, so yes, he was a finance minister and a prime minister, and deputy prime minister simply from being elected on the list
      
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      May 16, 2019 12:49pm
      - Happychappy
        
        [] he was elected by his caucus to be the Leader of National not by the people as he was selected when JohnKey retired, not by the country. He lost to Winston not selecting National after the Election Winston chose who he wanted as a Coalition Partner so the Voter never elected Willy. Winston Peter’s did.
        
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        May 16, 2019 2:41pm
- MCos
  
  Inasmuch as the names and rankings on the list were know before people cast their party vote of course he was elected.
  In other jurisdictions there is only one vote and list members are allocated depending on the summation of votes given to electorate candidates.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:53am
Yvette

What combination of clips edited from SAVING PRIVATE RYAN or HACKSAW RIDGE accessible on YouTube can ISIS splice together now to upload to FACEBOOK to shut it down in places like the UK should they legislate their threat to do that.

For your consideration –
The U.K.’s fresh call for regulation reflects a deepening skepticism of Silicon Valley in response to a range of recent controversies, including Facebook’s role in the country’s 2016 referendum to leave the European Union. British lawmakers learned after the vote that an organization created by Brexit supporters appeared to have links to Cambridge Analytica, a political consultancy that improperly accessed Facebook data on 87 million users in order to help clients better hone their political messages.

See? – there is other stuff
Is the Christchurch Call an example of shining leadership or being a useful idiot?
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May 16, 2019 9:19am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Q:
  If no live streaming, what would this asshole have done?
  A: Recorded it for download later, like ISIS did 100’s of times.
  Q: Did the police use the “live stream” to know and predict where he was and where he was going?Did this help them catch him and prevent more casualties?
  Seriously, I’d like to know!!
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:42am
  - Alien
    
    This live stream should make his conviction easier, he’s supplied the police with the evidence he’s guilty.
    
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    May 16, 2019 12:43pm
    - Batman
      
      The prosecution can play the video in court, and then ask:
      
      Is that you in the video?
      Do you own the firearms used in the video?
      
      Job done, 49 life sentences please!
      
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      May 16, 2019 1:03pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Impertinent question.
        If the video is illegal to watch, can it be shown as evidence in court?
        Same goes for the manifesto, to show intent.
        
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        May 16, 2019 2:50pm
- Tall Man
  
  Useless idiot.
  
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  May 16, 2019 7:15pm
mikenmildagain

Today is the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Cassino. Although the official commemorations today at the National War Memorial mark the end of the Fourth Battle, the New Zealand Division had suffered its last major defeat of the war in the Second and Third battles in February and March 1944, incurring about 1,000 casualties.
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May 16, 2019 9:27am
- calendar girl
  
  Thanks for that reminder, mma.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:05am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Thank you for the reminder.
  They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted; They fell with their faces to the foe. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:59am
Camryn Brown

Labour has attempted two different spins around its reallocation of funding away from Fees Free. The first is obviously feeble, but the second risks gaining traction unless we understand its true objective.

The first attempt, led primarily by MPs, was to promote it as fiscal discipline. DPF dealt to that on this very site. In short, it can’t be an example of discipline if it was something they had no choice over. They were simply unable to spend as much on Fees Free as they thought they could and have decided to spend elsewhere instead.

The second attempt, led primarily by the PR team on Twitter, was to float the idea that the point of Fees Free was never to increase enrolments but rather to reduce the burden of student debt and “assist with retraining in an age of technological disruption”. DPF has also been dealing to that, primarily by highlighting various times that Labour has explicitly claimed that Fees Free was intended to boost enrolments.

However, I think the true purpose wasn’t to shift the perceived objective of Fees Free from student numbers to student debt and workforce resilience. It was to keep the true objective obscured. That Fees Free exists at all can only be to due to the ideological objective of universal free education at all levels or the political objective of winning the 2017 election because *it is not the obvious or rational solution for any of its potential educational objectives*. If the objective was really to improve access (student numbers) then they would’ve done targeted scholarships. If the objective was really to reduce student debt burdens they would’ve done something around conditional loan forgiveness. If the objective was really to help the workforce deal with technological disruption, they would’ve done something that was available to people retraining as opposed to only people without any previous post-secondary education.

To allow Labour to claim any educational or economic benefit of Fees Free is ridiculous. It is a non solution to non problems that actually hurts those it intends to help (by reducing the already slim monetary incentive to study a subject that society values in the form of future job opportunities, it increases the number of students wasting years of their life) as well as hurting taxpayers and other potential recipients of those public funds (e.g. teachers). Let’s not let them spin out of this!
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May 16, 2019 9:29am
- Alien
  
  I personally believe it is like everything they touch, dead in the water and it won’t roll out to two years free
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:36am
- RW Capitalist
  
  If they were serious about student out comes
  They would have:
  1. Made the final year free (or reimbursed after the degree obtained) as a reward for success.
  2. They would have targeted those degrees (supported by the census) that:
  lead to needed occupations, directly such as
  Teachers
  Nurses
  Doctors
  Engineers
  Accountants
  Lawyers (note, lawyers are mentioned last)
  NOT
  Airy fairy courses that don’t lead DIRECTLY to an occupation required by the country.
  In fact my opinion of this is, if this is one of these “social engineering” or “personal interest” courses.Then you should pay 100% of the cost.
  Education is payed for by the tax payer, to benefit the citizens/taxpayers of NZ.
  Such as
  Political science
  Anthropology
  and the such like.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:53am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It is completely an election bribe…nothing more.
  The 2year free and 3 year free are tied into the election cycle.
  https://www.labour.org.nz/tertiaryeducation
  
  If Labour’s aim was anything to do with education or economic benefit, then the 2year/3year free would be tied in with the Nation’s piggy-bank.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:39am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There has been no change in the fees policy so those who qualify still get free fees. If the budget vote is exceeded they will still get free fees and GR will sort it out later.
  Nothing has changed except an underutilised budget item has been trimmed providing more apparent freedom for other items.
  
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  May 16, 2019 11:21am
dave_c_

The dots are beginning to be joined.
“Legalize DRUGS USA – Globalist Mayor Says Philly To Stop Arresting People for Drug Possession – of ALL DRUGS”

Sound familiar in our own country yet ?
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May 16, 2019 9:33am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Citation, please!
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:42am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Bugger off, please!
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:28am
- mikenmildagain
  
  About time, too. Why on earth conservatives want to punish people for their personal choice of psychoactive substance really has me puzzled. Regulate behaviour and mitigate harm, not restrict the choice of alcohol, tobacco, cannabis or pills, etc, etc.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:57am
  - freethinker
    
    I have no problem with people smoking or imbibing whatever their choice of drug at home and staying there. I do have problems with same people who whilst drug influenced go out drive cars, operate machinery etc and the damage they do to others, of course you could do the biblical eye for an eye and main the offender to the same degree as their victim or perhaps execute if their victim dies. Agree this as a way forward and I will grudgingly accept although it still fails to fix the victim. Medicinal Cannabis however under professional supervision I have no problem with.
    
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    May 16, 2019 10:52am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      The principle of libertarianism only works in a moral society in which people control themselves so that their actions do not harm others.
      
      Without self-control, libertarianism degenerates into the breeding ground of authoritarianism.
      
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      May 16, 2019 11:53am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        My thoughts
        There is only one law required.
        and
        one proviso
        Law:
        You can do anything you please….
        Proviso:
        Provided it does NOT impact on any one elses ability to obey the law.
        Think hard
        It is freedom to be RESPONSIBLE.
        
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        May 16, 2019 2:56pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      That was always a trojan horse though.
      
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      May 16, 2019 1:24pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    OK then but no medical care for the harm drugs does to yourself.
    Also
    ANY harm done to someone else due to your drug taking is your responsibility.
    To take care of the harm
    To cover the costs
    ENTIRELY
    
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    May 16, 2019 11:04am
    - waikatogirl
      
      Health and safety laws apply surely? If a provider of a legal product is harmful then the seller is legally liable? The COL will ensure the “capitialist pigs” selling the product are fined, not the poor, forlorn user. //
      
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      May 16, 2019 3:26pm
dave_c_

“The new Green Serfdom”

The Green New Deal is a path to a more militarized and authoritarian society.

The following commentary surely explains and mirrors our own COL’s ambition, and the emboldenment of our own prime-minister.

https://reason.com/2019/05/13/the-new-green-serfdom/
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May 16, 2019 9:40am
- stephieboy
  
  dave c , with the Gulags and FEMA camps thrown in for good measure?
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:58am
MCos

SBW is not just a pretty face
https://twitter.com/sonnybwilliams/status/1128568974705168384?s=21
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May 16, 2019 9:42am
skyblue

Where can I download a submission to the drug driving issue mentioned by Nash/Gender neutral yesterday?
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May 16, 2019 9:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Go to the Ministry of Transport website.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:58am
BrownSnake

James Cook Did it
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May 16, 2019 9:49am
- mikenmildagain
  
  At least several times. He had six children as a result.
  
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  May 16, 2019 9:59am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    None of whom survived to adulthood to pass on the genes.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cook
    
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    May 16, 2019 1:30pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  John Keys will be relieved that JC is now taking the rap!
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:47pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Key………
    
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    May 16, 2019 7:06pm
lastmanstanding

Havent read todays comments so dont know if anyone has posted on The Dons Immigration Plan.

This is to install a points based merit system similar to ours and drop the lottery Green Card system.

The Dem oppose without any reasons or alternatives. Seems they prefer to let in potential axe murders.

This is further proof that the Left oppose Trump with hate filled spittle ( I will invoke Godwins Law here) in the same way the Germans adored Adolf without any rational consideration.

Both showing equal measures of insanity.
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May 16, 2019 9:50am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Someday, an orator of genuine import will repeat these words, not of a hero of the past, but of Trump:
  “the courage, the perseverance, and the vital force which enabled him to . . . overcome all the . . . resistances which barred his path.”
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:08am
- MCos
  
  ‘Seems they prefer to let in potential axe murders.’
  We let in an actual Australian mass murderer.
  
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  May 16, 2019 11:02am
Happychappy

Great to see a Maori film actress come out against a film being made on the ChristChurch Mosque terrorist attack in which 51 people lost their lives.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12231367
Jacinda can’t make rules around the naming of the terrorist and his trial, then allow a film to be made of the victims misfortune.
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May 16, 2019 9:58am
- MCos
  
  Jacinda hasn’t made any such rules that I’m aware of.
  She said she wouldn’t say the perpetrator’s name and some local media made some rules for themselves about reporting the trial.
  
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  May 16, 2019 10:58am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Jacinda has no power to prevent a foreign production of in re Tarrant.
  
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  May 16, 2019 11:25am
sooty

Ian LeesGallaway. We have not forgoten you!
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May 16, 2019 9:58am
stephieboy

“Goodness’ in post-Chch terror attack NZ influences Aussie election campaign”

Australian political commentators and academics say race and immigration have been largely missing from this month’s election campaign as a consequence of the Christchurch mosque attacks.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/389316/goodness-in-post-chch-terror-attack-nz-influences-aussie-election-campaign

Amen to that!
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May 16, 2019 10:01am
softail 1450

Our outstanding leader Arderne is crowing about there being representatives from 17 countries and a few 5th level people from the tech giants attending her Wank fest .
I guarantee she and the girl man Macron would have been sitting there in that auditorium by themselves if the bint had scheduled her Wankfest for the middle of a Paris winter ,and our country would have the best part of a million dollars to spend on something meaningful..FFS.
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May 16, 2019 10:07am
- rangitoto
  
  Why not hold these meetings via video conference. Will they not think of all the polar bears that could be saved.
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Golriz Ghahraman’s opinion piece on online abuse

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112708601/we-need-laws-with-real-teeth-to-protect-our-online-safety
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May 16, 2019 10:17am
- KevO'Brien
  
  G.G needs to toughen up: she can give it but not accept it. Laws can be applied in both directions.
  
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  May 16, 2019 4:29pm
Rich Prick

Check out this evidence free witch-smelling. The left including the media have lost their collective minds.

Right-wing extremists are connected to a structured and well financed global neo-nazi ideology that is consciously using the internet to propagate its beliefs.

White supremacists … Islamophobia, misogyny is spreading on the internet through sites such as 4chan and 8chan. The popular Fornite game has been used as a platform for radicalisation.
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May 16, 2019 10:36am
- RW Capitalist
  
  No mention of ISIS beheading 20 Christians on an Egyptian beach then?
  
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  May 16, 2019 11:07am
Happychappy

Didn’t Winston Peter’s and Shane Jones say that they wanted to grow Forestry and plant millions of seedlings for NZ sawmills so that NZer’s had jobs. This was supposed to be a project that would lower the cost of having to import the timber back to NZ, but this seems to be forgotten now as million of more logs head to China.
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/99673/greater-trade-and-co-operation-china-new-zealands-forestry-sector-part-new-agreement
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May 16, 2019 11:00am
- Happychappy
  
  This is Winston Peters on the subject about China and our logs in Election 2017.
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/election-2017/forestry-first-test-protectionist-agenda
  
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  May 16, 2019 12:03pm
- Piniwi
  
  Funny happychappy they don’t seem to be able to find a picture of real export log site as the one they use is a thinning operation. Thinnings provide what is shown in the stacked “logs” of mainly fence posts with few larger strainer posts. It does highlight what become a shrinking market for this by-product if farmland is A) gobbled for more tree plantations and B) if the Green Gang manage to reduce stock numbers.
  Secondly the Chinese log demands cover all grades of logs from the lowest packing grade to the first grade for premium timber products. The industry is very dependent on a stable market for those low grade logs that continue to be produced from poorly tended forestry blocks.
  There remains the overlooked complications that would arise from any massive increase if standing trees which produce methane. Even enough to overtake any gains from reduced stock numbers not to mention the massive reduction of export receipts lost forever.
  In addition to this disadvantage the almost captive market make it even easier for the Chinese to use log imports as a bargaining chip as they have in the past. There is every chance Jones will end up being the Forest Industries equal to what Twyford is to affordable housing. Lol
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:46pm
Jack5

Why is Stuff pushing the anti-Western views of Donna Miles-Mojab, a self-described secular Muslim? Is Al Jazeera the mystery would-be buyer of Stuff from its unwilling Australian owner?

Stuff’s drift to the Left began a while ago, and Miles-Mojab has been pushing her Islamic views in the chain’s newspapers since at least 2016.

An example of her views. Miles-Mojab, born in Britain to Iranian parents, in an article on the Daily Blog on 2 June 2015, said:

”I believe that the greatest threats to our freedom of speech are posed by the Western governments who, under the guise of national security and through greater surveillance, limit our privacy and our ability to speak freely without intimidation and fear.”

I bet she’s not supporting a free and open internet though.

Miles-Mojab is strongly pro-Palestinian, as you might expect, and you can bet she’ll be bombarding Stuff readers with anti-American views as the Iranian stand-off increases.

You can get a taste of Miles-Mojab’s views, from this Radio NZ recording of her hosting a talk by Ed Husain, a former radical Islamicist as host of talk with and now an anti-terrorism advocate Ed Husain.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/writers/audio/2018691604/word-christchurch-festival-2018-ed-husain-debates-his-book-the-house-of-islam
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May 16, 2019 11:37am
- Jack5
  
  It’s notable, that while the Christchurch Press used Miles-Mojab as its “opinion” contributor today, another Stuff newspaper, the Southland Times, used an excellent column by Karl du Fresne.
  
  Christchurch Press readers who don’t get to read du Fresne, can read him elsewhere on Stuff today at the link below.
  
  One of his interesting topics is that the push for tolerance of Islam could also be extended to tolerance of Christianity.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112731374/inclusivity-means-accepting-everyones-views–even-israel-folaus
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:29pm
Cobolt24

Wellington’s public transport system to get $6.4b overhaul | RNZ News
.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/389321/wellington-s-public-transport-system-to-get-6-point-4b-overhaul

Lets Get Welly Moving. The Plan:
.
https://getwellymoving.co.nz/the-plan/
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May 16, 2019 12:16pm
- insider
  
  Headline should be ” vague 20 year wishlist gets published; nothing certain or approved”
  
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  May 16, 2019 3:02pm
  - srylands
    
    Pathetic. Minister Twyford said he was hopeful that construction of a second Mount Victoria tunnel could begin within 10 years.
    
    Terrace Tunnel duplication not to proceed. Yet it is plain every day that the Terrace Tunnel is a sick joke.
    
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    May 16, 2019 4:44pm
    - Cobolt24
      
      It’s great they’re doing something but indeed, it’s fallen short of my expectations.
      
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      May 16, 2019 6:16pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Twfyord dreams again.
  I’m glad I’ve escaped Wellington. It was OK as a city of 125K-it just keeps getting more crowded.
  To get anywhere you have to navigate a highly built up narrow reclamation or go through a hole in a hill to another small segment.
  
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  May 16, 2019 4:18pm
  - srylands
    
    Yes agree. I love Wellington but the congestion is worsening yet in the last decade literally nothing has been done. It really is not that complicated. Although it is expensive…
    
    Widen motorway from 4 lanes to 6 lanes from Linden to Wellington.
    
    Build 4 lane motorway on flyover from a duplicated Terrace Tunnel to a duplicated Mount Victoria Tunnel.
    
    Widen Road from Mount Victoria tunnel through to Airport.
    
    When that is all done, underground Jervois Quay to open up access to Waterfront.
    
    Anything less is just bullshit.
    
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    May 16, 2019 4:50pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      “..underground Jervois Quay…”
      You can see the sea and the old shore line in the basement of the old BNZ building. It’s not possible to go down.
      
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      May 16, 2019 7:05pm
- marcw
  
  Yet another COL Working Group – no KPI’s, no milestones to measure, no agenda, no budget – just a whole load of promises and a monetary sum plucked out of their nether regions. Consultants by the bucketfuls though. Where does Cullen fit into the trough I wonder?
  
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  May 16, 2019 5:19pm
Swifty

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 1,000 times – just look at the harm caused by reading:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12231522

It’s way past time that books were banned in this country. Way past time. I mean, who actually needs them?
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May 16, 2019 12:20pm
- stephieboy
  
  Was it you or maybe or another KB poster who said, “when I see a library I reach for my cap gun” ?
  
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  May 16, 2019 3:31pm
Swifty

And the Greens and Labour are about to increase our refugee intake by thousands and thousands ANNUALLY:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/112646102/suicide-bomb-refugee-abandoned-by-system-its-like-being-thrown-into-the-jungle

FFS – they can’t or won’t even take proper care of the ones here already.

Children. Our country is being run by children.
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May 16, 2019 12:28pm
Ross12

So there is no extra money for teachers and nurses but the Govt. is prepared to put $3.8billion towards Wellington transport dreams. All for the sake of another stupid “light rail” type project.
Absolute madness ( and I live in Wellington).
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May 16, 2019 12:54pm
- Batman
  
  A lot of the $6.4 billion is for tunnels, so careful! Haha.
  
  But yes, $2.2 billion for rapid transit, i.e. trams, will make for an interesting BCR! ?
  
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  May 16, 2019 1:01pm
  - stoptheboats
    
    but Greenies oppose drilling so thats the tunnel out of the question already!
    
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    May 16, 2019 1:45pm
  - srylands
    
    I wonder how many politicians will travel to the Airport on the new trams?
    
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    May 16, 2019 4:52pm
    - Humble Capitalist
      
      A couple for the photo op and then never seen on them ever again
      
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      May 16, 2019 9:07pm
- insider
  
  Twyford’s a complete idiot for buying into this series of non promises. Does he think by being more vague than his ‘100k houses in 10 years’ plan he will be more successful and improve his reputation?
  
  A second Mt Vic tunnel is a no brainer. It’s been planned for over 50 years and the design partially done along with the alignment. He should have pressed the trigger so he had something he could look back on as having achieved.
  
  Sounds like going for ‘at grade’ solutions for the basin reserve will just entrench the gridlock and probably just involve getting rid of parking spaces to the annoyance of many.
  
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  May 16, 2019 3:01pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    I occasionally travel into Wellington to do contracted repairs….where will I park? and How much will it cost?
    It’s difficult enough now, I have been known to spend 45 min driving around, looking for a park.
    Freeing up through traffic in Wellington is easy,
    Extend SH1 to the Basin Reserve as a trench all the way.
    Put bridges over it, to connect the cross streets
    This would remove all the traffic lights.
    Extend the Aotea, Murphy st, Hawkstone street and Terrace exits to draw traffic away from the end of the motorway.
    Put in the planned 2nd tunnel at the Terrace end
    Put in the 2nd tunnel at the basin Reserve.
    
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    May 16, 2019 4:07pm
- Prince
  
  Most of this funding will go to the lawyers fighting objections on both sides.
  
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  May 16, 2019 3:26pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Wellington City is overpopulated: it’s people or transport. It was once a seaside settlement.
  
  There isn’t sufficient land for the density required to justify the capital costs of digging through hills for accessways.
  
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  May 16, 2019 4:14pm
  - Batman
    
    Thanks for your support there, Kev
    
    3 0
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    May 16, 2019 4:23pm
Rich Prick

Today’s doublethink is courtesy of an outfit called Go Eco.

conservation and restoration work appeared to depend on retired Pākehā who have the time and privilege …

Colonisation and systems of oppression continue to force people to a daily struggle of survival …

Eco-warrior George Lusty says there are issues at play which keep ethnic diversity out of conservation work.

If diversity wants to get involved with conservation work, it is free to get off its arse and get involved.
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May 16, 2019 1:01pm
- rangitoto
  
  It’s all Captain Cook’s fault.
  
  7 1
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  May 16, 2019 1:08pm
  - stigie
    
    Be buggered, it’s all John Key’s fault !~
    
    9 1
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    May 16, 2019 1:36pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Pale stale male then?
    
    6 1
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    May 16, 2019 1:52pm
- Tall Man
  
  Especially if “diversity” is unemployed and spends the bulk of the day discovering new ways to smoke dope or ingest “P”.
  
  I suppose volunteering is out, some just sit around on their sickness benefit and moan about expensive dope……
  
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  May 16, 2019 6:52pm
Maggie Pie

I really miss Question Time when i’m home during the day and the House is in recesS. Thank goodness TVNZ never had a kneejerk reaction and pulled the Jeremy Kyle Show
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May 16, 2019 1:22pm
Ross12

The White House starts the fight back against the censoring of conservative views on social media sites

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/05/trump-white-house-launches-website-for-victims-of-tech-censorship-where-you-can-add-your-name-and-tell-your-story/
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May 16, 2019 2:07pm
Fletch

I find it ironic that the govt wants to consult the public on the “drugged driving” problem while at the same time looking to legalize cannabis? Liberal ideas are so compartmentalized. They seem to view everything as disconnected with little to no regard for consequence, or how one thing affects another ?
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May 16, 2019 2:58pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  The classic answer, every time Labour are in:
  UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
  Note, not Unavoidable consequences.
  
  8 1
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  May 16, 2019 3:54pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Their pathetic attempt to claim Nick Smiths bill as their own?
  Aren’t they always either:
  1. Claiming someone else’s achievements.
  or
  2. Blaming someone else for their own screw ups.
  
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  May 16, 2019 3:56pm
Fletch

Random YouTube video of the day – a guy restoring a vintage (1930s?) pistol. What was most interesting to me was the beginning where he uses some kind of electrodes in a solution to transfer the rust from the gun to two sacrificial rods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfDh8i7baVY
4 1
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May 16, 2019 4:05pm
Southern Raider

Just saw a cartoon post on Facebook about how to save the planet with four suggestions
1) bike to work
2) meatless Monday’s
3) recycle
Okay so above could be personal choice and I suppose reasonable however
4) guillotine the corrupt corporate class who are poisoning the planet for profit (with a picture of a guillotine with blood on the blade for effect)

WTF??
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May 16, 2019 6:42pm
- Komata
  
  SR @1824
  
  The true face of socialism always shows itself…
  
  (1931)
  
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  May 16, 2019 7:31pm
Prince

This must be peak stupidity journalism.
Michelle Duff.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/112729605/the-persistent-message-that-women-are-lesser-normalises-abuse
“Let’s take a moment to think about that another way – women over the age of 18 are safer running through a dark park at night than they are in their own houses. In their own beds.”

Has there ever been a more ridiculous twisting of statistics.
Perhaps Michelle should try running through a dark park at night, every night, just to be, you know, safer.
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May 16, 2019 8:00pm
Jack5

Why America won’t back Jacinderella-Macron Christchurch Call …

It would breach America’s First Amendment Free Speech rights, says the political web site, the Washington Examiner, linked to below:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/why-the-trump-administration-had-to-reject-the-christchurch-call
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May 16, 2019 9:42pm
- V
  
  In a conversation between Julian Assange and Eric Schmidt (Google Chairman) back in 2011, Eric mentions Google receives 48hrs of video per minute uploaded onto youtube.
  
  One can only imagine what the numbers are now.
  
  Jacinda will have to pound sand unfortunately.
  
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  May 17, 2019 2:29am
Monicabrown

if you need her help you can reach him on Robinson.buckler@ yahoo. com,,, for any thing on relationship or anything you can think of for he is very powerful and so real
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May 22, 2019 2:17am

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