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September 2, 2019 12:47pm by Kokila Patel

General Debate 2 September 2019

Apologies for the delay

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General Debate

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Scott

Phil Quinn in stuff today about Trump has lost his mind must be the most one sided travesty of journalism ever. No effort to understand the Trump phenomenon, just abuse of the man and essentially calling those who vote for him idiots.

Take two examples of what Quinn sees as Trump’s craziness. Trump wanting to buy Greenland. This is actually something other presidents have tried to do because Greenland is rich in rare minerals that America needs. So actually not crazy.

Trump having a trade war with China. Well actually there is bipartisan consensus on this. Chuck Schumer leader of the democrats is on board with this and supports Pres Trump’s stance on China.

The bigger picture is that the media are generally liberal globalists. Trump is a nationalist who believes that America has been ripped off for years. That he has been elected Pres of the USA, not Pres of the world and he should look after the interests of the American people. It’s a profound difference of philosophy and one that Quinn does not agree with.

But to just abuse the Pres of the United States in such vitriolic terms is beneath proper journalism and does nothing to properly inform stuffs readers.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/115419803/whys-it-so-hard-for-us-to-say-out-loud-that-trump-has-lost-his-mind
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September 2, 2019 12:49pm
- Simon
  
  Not sure why you bother. The general population has moved on from MSM. Trump is very highly regarded in the US and elsewhere.
  
  At the moment MSM are running with their latest hero Greta Thunberg and they then write stories about how Trump is crazy….. Trump has destroyed MSM.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:14pm
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Trump is not highly regarded anywhere.
    
    His poll numbers are under water in the US and are significantly worse globally.
    
    Only the 20-30% who constitute his base actually regard him well, both domestically and internationally (like the Trumpets here on KB).
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:26pm
    - Simon
      
      Comrade Batperson you are in for a shock.
      
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      September 2, 2019 1:36pm
      - Batman
        
        Hey look I might well be! I’m just going off the polling data that is available, rather than a gut feeling.
        
        I might also turn out to be right! That’s the fun of politics right?
        
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        September 2, 2019 1:50pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Wrong…
        https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-08-23/at-the-g7-trump-s-approval-rating-is-second-to-one
        
        Trumps approval amongst Republicans was 94% last week.
        
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        September 2, 2019 2:21pm
    - lilman
      
      Why do you care Batman?
      
      Americans voted for Trump,not you or me.
      
      Deal with it,we should have no say as its their decision.
      
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      September 2, 2019 2:16pm
    - Nermal
      
      The polling data that had Hilary Clinton at 94%?
      
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      September 2, 2019 2:24pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Let’s just say Trump is not highly regarded buy CNN, MSNBC et all.
      Maybe try FOX, or OAN (One America News). We all know who has TDS
      
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      September 2, 2019 3:30pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Batman, I disagree.
      
      Polls that have Trump ‘under water’ are, I bet, skewed in favour of the massive populations on the two US seaboards, Pacific and Northern Atlantic, both of which are massively anti-Trump.
      
      But Trump probably won’t even bother campaigning there.
      
      America isn’t a ‘First past the post’ system.
      
      ‘His’ bits of America, the ‘middle’, are all he has to win to achieve the same sort of result he got in 2016.
      
      And his ‘significantly worse’ numbers ‘globally’ are of no great concern to him either. Why, I can think of a certain global leader whose figures are skyhigh on the world stage but who is, reportedly, sinking to as low as 35% popularity in her own country.
      
      Trump, in my opinion, wins easily in 2020.
      
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      September 2, 2019 3:30pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Stuff does nothing for its reputation or that of local journalism by publishing silly rants like that.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:17pm
  - kowtow
    
    What reputation?
    
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    September 2, 2019 3:01pm
  - sooty
    
    But they have to. Otherwise Labour willn ot prop them up. I reckon push them over the edge!
    
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    September 2, 2019 4:03pm
- Unity
  
  They haven’t stopped abusing and ridiculing Trump since Day One!! I totally ignore it. He is actually achieving something for America and I fervently wish we had a Trump here. I will be amazed if he isn’t re-elected.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:17pm
  - igm
    
    They continually have behaved in this manner against anyone from the other side of their political agendas and beliefs. Look at the crap Simon Bridges gets thrown at him by these scum . . . it is distasteful.
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yeah! Make NZ Great Again!
    
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    September 2, 2019 3:32pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      And drain the swamp (over 200 working groups)
      
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      September 2, 2019 3:32pm
      - igm
        
        Swamp: Labour, NZF, Greens (and their respective supporters) . . . end of argument
        
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        September 2, 2019 4:27pm
- Jigsaw
  
  I read that-the usual garbage, he says that both Ronald Reagan and George W.Bush were thick (because of course they were Republicans) and the Trump is even thicker than they were. Obama of course by contrast is genius! says more about the person writing it than anything….and none of it good.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:23pm
- trout
  
  Quinn is just parroting the liberal media in the US. Here is Newt Gingrich’s take on the subject –
  ‘The most amazing thing about Theodore White’s “The Making of the President 1972” is his explanation of the emerging hostility of the elite news media and its evolution into an adversarial anti-president propaganda system for left-wing values.
  Everything we are used to seeing in what President Trump calls “Fake News” existed by 1972. The parallels are amazing – and are part of why I decided to spend so much time analyzing 1972 and 2020 as similar patterns of conflict.
  The current New York Times overt shift from smearing President Trump with Russian collusion (which collapsed) to smearing President Trump with allegations of racism were all foreshadowed by the universal elite media hostility to President Nixon a half-century ago. The lockstep hostility of the Times, The Washington Post, and the left-wing TV systems were simply proof that in President Trump they had encountered a leader bent on changing their world and confronting their values.
  White combines his extraordinary analysis of the New York Times-Boston Globe-Washington Post system (and the three networks they shaped) with an explanation of the mutation from what he calls “the liberal idea” into “the liberal theology” – and the “movement” which grew out of it. (I will deal with the movement in my next column and its devastatingly destructive impact on cities in part four of this series.) This piece focuses on the adversarial news media and its impact on 1972 and on 2020.
  The real opposition to Nixon was not the Democratic Party nor its nominee Senator George McGovern. In White’s analysis, the real opposition to Nixon was the elite news media.
  The elite news media hated Nixon more than any major politician before Trump. Despite the rise of talk radio, Twitter, Facebook, and cable news, nothing in White’s core analysis has changed. He draws a sharp distinction between the lesser news media, many of which were for Nixon, and the elite media – which was monolithically, bitterly hostile to President Nixon.
  defined The New York Times and the three networks. It was a generational change from reporters of facts to advocates of ideology which compounded the bitterness and hostility.
  Here is White’s analysis:
  “The power of the press in America is a primordial one. It sets the agenda of public discussion; and this sweeping political power is unrestrained by any law. It determines what people will talk and think about—an authority that in other nations is reserved for tyrants, priests, parties and mandarins. No major act of the American Congress, no foreign adventure, no act of diplomacy, no great social reform can succeed in the United States unless the press prepares the public mind. And when the press seizes a great issue to thrust onto the agenda of talk, it moves action on its own—the cause of the environment, the cause of civil rights, the liquidation of the war in Vietnam, and, as climax, the Watergate affair were all set on the agenda, in first instance, by the press.”
  The power of the left grows from the media. Since Nixon, the media has sought to attack presidents it did not deem worthy. As White explained:
  “These were the adversary press. Its luminaries not only questioned his exercise of power, as all great American journalists have done when examining a President. They questioned his own understanding of America; they questioned not only his actions but the quality of his mind, and his honor as a man. It was a question of who was closest in contact with the mood of the American people—the President or his adversary press? Neither would yield anything of respect to the other—and in Richard Nixon’s first term the traditional bitterness on both sides approached paranoia.”
  Much like President Trump a generation later Nixon was not intimidated and did not flinch from the fight. Nixon understood that his primary adversary was the press – not his Democratic opponent.
  It is vital to understand that the news media and its academic and Hollywood allies are the defenders and imposers of an alternative culture which hates conservatism and particularly hates effective conservatives.
  The elite media had its final victory over President Nixon in the Watergate scandal, which drove him from office. The elite media tried this with President Trump in the “Russian collusion” lie and failed.
  The Left wants to forget that when the American people weighed the values of President Nixon and the values of The New York Times, Nixon got 61 percent of the vote. The same would happen 12 years later when President Reagan won with 58 percent of the vote.
  Do not be shocked if in the 2020 result, President Trump wins by a margin unimaginable today (no one in September 1971 or September 1983 would have predicted gigantic landslides against the Left).
  Do not be shocked if the elite media are proved wrong again.’
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:27pm
  - rouppe
    
    I think an important difference between now and 1972 is that in 1972 the only information coming out was produced by the White House.
    
    What I’m thinking here is the narrative about the Vietnam War. The information sold was that “we’re winning, the enemy is being destroyed, communism is being defeated”.
    
    It was only when the press went to Vietnam and started bringing pictures of what was actually happening that the opposition to that war really surged. In that example, I think the attacks were warranted. Successive Presidents were deceiptful about Vietnam.
    
    Today, however, information comes from many sources. Now we can see when the White House is making stuff up, but also when the MSM is making stuff up.
    
    For all of Trump’s faults that are being detailed, the MSM is also over-egging, and making stuff up. They’re being caught, and I’m not sure they realise it.
    
    One example is Quinn’s statement about Trump proposing to nuke hurricanes. He makes it sound like Trump was the first to propose it, and can’t believe anyone would suggest such a thing. It is pretty cray-cray after all. Anyway, Quinn disregards totally the several other administrations – and scientific bodies – that previously considered and then discarded the idea.
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:51pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      There’s no evidence that Trump said he wanted to nuke Hurricanes.
      It’s one of those ‘a source said’ stories, where media repeat what one person in the media has claimed.
      A bit like this one from Lawrence ODonnell
      https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/lawrence-odonnell-source-says-russian-oligarchs-co-signed-trumps-deutsche-bank-loans
      
      Trump says plenty of stupid shit sometimes but the extent some tell lies is crazy. That ‘chosen man’ stuff was nuts too. He was clearly joking around.
      
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      September 2, 2019 2:31pm
      - tf78
        
        Trump was “chosen” by the American People – so why is that nuts. Cindy was “chosen” by Winston- that is nuts.
        
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        September 2, 2019 6:20pm
- Littletramp
  
  I don’t think you can call this guy (Phil Quinn) media. He is simply virtue signalling ahead of his local body elections. A puerile piece of fluff writing that should never have been published.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:40pm
  - Batman
    
    Plenty of people on this blog, including me, had nothing but good things to say about Quin when he was absolutely savaging Labour under Andrew Little.
    
    Oh how the winds of political convenience blow huh?
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:59pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Quin is alright. I just think that like a lot of people, the way Trump has behaved in the past and the way he is so brash now, just offends him. It’s not how he thinks a politician should behave.
    He can’t get past it and doesn’t understand that as a disrupter that’s just Trumps very unusual way of getting things done. He is an imperfect man with a crazy freewheeling style. He’s very funny too.
    People should just chill a bit and enjoy the ride. The way Trump ripped into two journos (NBC and CNN) the other day was just a delight. You could see the Secret Service guys grinning in the background! Bridges could learn from it…
    Trump will be gone soon enough (6 years ?)
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      “It’s not how he thinks a politician should behave”
      There you have it, Trump is not a politician – and just what America needs. Too long the World has taken advantage of the US, and Trump is stopping that. United Nations are going to scream soon, so are the Counties who do not pay for their Defence
      
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      September 2, 2019 3:39pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        I’d observe a lot of ‘liberals’ or ‘progressives’ are really just effete elitist snobs.
        You see a few on here.
        
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        September 2, 2019 4:30pm
- igm
  
  I am still major shareholder in a company that against my wishes, has continued to advertise in Fairfax publications; after seeing this article today will be taking immediate action to see this is rectified . . . immediately!
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:41pm
  - IC5000
    
    Corporations have only one purpose which is to create value for shareholders. I can’t see how your whining would disrupt this.
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:47pm
    - igm
      
      Fairfax (NZ) is not my idea of a decent return on investment for shareholders, and the sooner it gets worse, the better for media. They must be running close to insolvency and it would be interesting to see what their balance sheet looks like these days.
      
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      September 2, 2019 4:31pm
      - IC5000
        
        So sell your share then. Easy.
        
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        September 2, 2019 6:11pm
- Kevin Herlihy
  
  Quin has had a well documented and public bout of depression which is reflected in his writing, which in the Stuff article is wholly lopsided and negative.
  Will Stuff follow up with a rebuttal tomorrow?
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:53pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Presumably establishing his credentials for declaring Trump mentally ill – though I’m inclined to suspect bi-polar disorder in the author instead.
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:35pm
- Nermal
  
  Next to the current Democratic presidential lineup’s desperate bids to outdo each other, (need I even need to mention Biden’s Alzheimers), Trump’s statements and policies are the pinnacle of sensibility
  
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  September 2, 2019 2:30pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Even Nancy struggles to string two coherent sentences together
    
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    September 2, 2019 3:41pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      One Nancy is dead and the other Nancy acts like she is dead.
      
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      September 2, 2019 5:25pm
chaos

Sad.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/otago/115456383/dunedin-womens-refuge-workers-stole-donations

*Whistleblowers have lifted the lid on bullying, unsafe work practices and theft at Te Whare Pounamu Dunedin Women’s Refuge.

A damning report has backed workers’ claims and highlighted serious breaches of Social Sector Accreditation standards.

Te Whare Pounamu has been characterised by staff as a toxic and dysfunctional work place.

One where the needs of management are put before clients, bullying is rampant and a sense of entitlement has extended to stealing donations intended for vulnerable women and children.*
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September 2, 2019 12:53pm
- alex Masterley
  
  I was saddened to read this report.
  There are clearly serious issues with the Dunedin Women’s refuge which need to be addressed.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:11pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    probably not enough men in the organisation to keep them on the straight and narrow and leaven the toxic pecking order conflict culture that exclusively female organisations tend to develop.
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:31pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Old white men bad, orange haired man bad but give an organisation a maori name and anything goes…
      
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      September 2, 2019 3:04pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I looked for Aotearoa in the title, usually a indicator of something that will struggle or fail; looks like this little maori cabal managed both.
        
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        September 2, 2019 5:28pm
  - chaos
    
    It is disgusting that a child can say they are being seriously abused and they are ignored.
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:54pm
    - lilman
      
      Sorry Chaos do not agree.
      
      A child has been abused,its not bad.
      
      Our PM has an alleged rapist in her office,she does not seem to mind.
      Our PM has a bully in her office,she does not seem to mind.
      Media dont care it seems.
      John Key pulled a waitresses ponytail and that story was in the media for months ,daily.
      So why is it concerning that a child has been abused and the compliant not followed up?
      It starts at the top.
      
      If the top is rotten then it flows down and the stench is bad but the actual offence becomes acceptable.
      
      Keep voting Labour.
      
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      September 2, 2019 2:23pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Britain’s local authorities ignored the sexual abuse and sexual grooming of under-privileged girls for 20 years.
      
      Sentencing the five, Mr Slater said he was “quite satisfied” that the “relevant authorities” were well aware of the way vulnerable teenagers were being targeted for sexual exploitation at the time.
      
      He described it as a “lamentable state of affairs”, saying that the authorities at the time were at best “totally ineffectual” and, at worst “wholly indifferent”.
      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-49522660
      
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      September 2, 2019 2:28pm
  - tf78
    
    alex – unfortunately where you find people you will find deception – it’s natural for some.
    
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    September 2, 2019 6:37pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Now we must accept as fact that there are some loathsome creatures in the world who abuse, in a very malevolent manner, women. And those blokes can be fairly classified as prime arseholes.
  So it is essential that in a caring society there is a refuge for the victims of those bastards.
  But that Dunedin Women’s Refuge would be the classic case of “from the frying pan to the fire.” It is incredible that our government has continued to throw taxpayers’ funds at that assortment of deranged and deluded women.
  This sort of hell could have been detected at a small fraction of the cost of a Deloitte report.
  
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  September 2, 2019 2:57pm
Tony Stuart

The trial of the man accused of five counts of indecent assault at Labour’s summer camp has begun.

The accused claims to have been “very drunk” when the alleged offences occurred. How many people under the age of 18 were likewise “very drunk”, and why did minors have unfettered access to alcohol at a Labour Party event?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115443707/labour-party-summer-camp-accused-very-drunk-on-night-of-alleged-sexual-assaults?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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September 2, 2019 12:55pm
- skyblue
  
  Wonder what else will come out of the [Deleted – Mod]? I thought being pissed was not a legal loophole you could use these days. What is the proof he was ‘pissed’? Did he do a breath test? If not, how can we rely on his evidence? He was pissed, ha ha.
  
  [Mod – There are suppression orders in place around this case. Please do not expose DPF to prosecution by trying to beat them]
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:00pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Haven’t really followed this. Looks like the person charged is a having his defence strongly exercised. Your question about the ‘unfettered’ access to alcohol isn’t a question for the defence Tony, finally the allegations are in the right place – in Court and not on a message board.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:23pm
- burt
  
  “This was a party, there is no criminal offending here, there may have been some drunken antics… but there is no criminal offending here at all,” she said.
  
  I’m pretty sure this is exactly what was said about Russell McVeagh by Helen Clark, Allison Mau, #MeToo et al.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:23pm
  - JibberJabber
    
    I am definitely going to be interested in Maus` opinion of this from the defence Lawyer,
    
    “She wanted it,” Priest said. “There is no indecent assault here.”
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:40pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Quotes from the news item on Stuff.
  
  “The next morning, the accused issued various apologies, but claimed he couldn’t remember what happened, the court heard.”
  
  and later on in the same article,
  
  “The man denies completely what is alleged in regards to the second complainant.
  
  In regards to charge four, he honestly believed a victim “wanted it”. The man doesn’t recall touching another victim.”
  
  So, he claims he can’t remember what happened, but later on claims that he remembers enough to say that nothing untoward happened.
  
  Definitely a Labour Party reaction! I smell bull manure, in copious quantities!
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:32pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I will let the law take its course on this. I am aware of too much booze not being an adequate defense.
    
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    September 2, 2019 4:25pm
- burt
  
  I’m quite looking forward to hearing that this guy gets permanent name suppression and gets to keep his job. I’ll be joining the Labour party and having so much fun at parties in the future when this precedent is locked and loaded.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:33pm
  - david
    
    But surely you would need to be either well connected or indispensible to obtain that sort of immunity. Perhaps there was a subliminal message in Cindy’s advice to people to “get themselves immunised”
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:00pm
    - sooty
      
      Just look at the ninth floor rapeist, his arse is covered by Cindy. Must be the Labour way.
      
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      September 2, 2019 4:19pm
  - igm
    
    It also helps in Labour Party employment circles, so to speak!
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:29pm
- rouppe
  
  If he’s gone directly to the “drunk defense” he is on a hiding to nothing. Or he should be…
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:56pm
  - burt
    
    He’s a Labour Party person, he will be acquitted and get permanent name suppression. I’ll buy you a beer if I’m wrong 😉
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:20pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Oh, I see. So, not only is the MSM in thrall to Labour, but so, too, are this particular jury and judge?
      
      Goodness me. Don’t tell me you’re one of those RWNJs!
      
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      September 2, 2019 2:54pm
- igm
  
  Let’s face it, whether under age or over, one would need to be pissed or drugged to attend any sort of Labour education camp.
  Still think the offender is being an arsehole pleading not guilty.
  
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  September 2, 2019 2:28pm
  - burt
    
    Have you ever seen a lefty take personal responsibility for the outcomes of their ideas or their actions?
    
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    September 2, 2019 3:15pm
    - igm
      
      Have you noticed Stuff have this despicable display of filth unobtrusively placed, yet John Key was headlines (for months) for tugging some sheila’s pony tail. Even some radio host’s dismissed charges of filth against a taxi driver made lead headlines. Bet this scumbag gets off with lifelong suspension of identity just like a ex-Labour MP’s dishonesty charges, even though he was convicted.
      
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      September 2, 2019 5:33pm
Luke Piewalker

Can anyone tell me how much money the COL are investing in new energy supply?

NZ population going up (demand) but energy supply is not going up = higher energy prices
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September 2, 2019 12:59pm
- Unity
  
  I thought this particular blog was about Trump. However have we digressed to all of this other stuff?!!
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:19pm
  - Unity
    
    Oops, I see it is General Debate and not particularly about Trump. Apologies.
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:24pm
MrsAnnie

One day I hope we can find out who this grubby person is. It matters. If it turns out they are connected to sitting MPs or Senior Labour Party officials then it would explain why an attempt was made to cover this up. Just a theory of course. Sadly courts are far to willing to protect offenders and I doubt we will every know who this person is- chances are they may even yet get to be a list MP one day.
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September 2, 2019 1:01pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Ha everyone knows, but no one is allow to say. Suppression orders don’t work in the internet age.
  
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  September 2, 2019 1:33pm
  - MrsAnnie
    
    They won’t be removed though as some very powerful people are included in those that rely on their protection.
    
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    September 2, 2019 1:56pm
  - sam green
    
    Just like everyone knows who the prominent NZer accused of indecent assault is, and his lackeys, one a “prominent” business manager and the other a well known entertainer both accused of attempting to pervert the course of justice. I wonder who’s helping to cover this up and why.
    
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    September 2, 2019 2:15pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And who on earth is supporting name suppression for these individuals?
      
      I’ve no idea who they are or who they are affiliated with.
      
      14 1
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      September 2, 2019 3:30pm
      - sooty
        
        Not Labour again!
        
        6 0
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        September 2, 2019 4:22pm
      - sam green
        
        Farrar might know.
        
        0 4
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        September 2, 2019 6:22pm
    - igm
      
      Do they all have connections with the hierarchy of our left-wing elite?
      
      0 0
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      September 3, 2019 7:55am
- GazzaW
  
  NZ is a small village Annie.
  
  11 0
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  September 2, 2019 2:03pm
secondcumming

If you’re one of those *legally licensed Firearms Owners* who has still not surrendered your now prohibited weapons & parts, you can check out from the *incredibly extensive list* provided to clients of *Gun City*, what compensation to expect when you finally do so….

https://www.police.govt.nz/default/files/publications/prohibited-firearms-and-parts-buy-back-price-list.pdf
6 0
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September 2, 2019 1:06pm
- sooty
  
  So you should know what your bits and pieces are worth before you turn up!
  
  2 0
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  September 2, 2019 4:24pm
Nigel Kearney

A heart warming story from the USA:

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/crime/vp-nw-shooter-interview-20190829-ufii37kspbd63oymnqbdgpcqga-story.html
9 0
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September 2, 2019 1:15pm
Simon

Hong Kong isnt China.

Huawei is a spy network.

CCP are murdering scum.

FTA with CCP = social credit score of NZ companies & personal operating in China.
4 15
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September 2, 2019 1:19pm
- theoldbloke
  
  Think you might have to update your facts database.
  Hong Kong is defiantly part of China.
  However for 50 years since Hong Kong was Handed to China by the British. The Chinese agreement is to run hOng Kong under a different system.
  Hence the slogan
  One country two systems.
  
  6 1
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  September 2, 2019 3:35pm
  - Jack5
    
    Fifty years ago?
    
    No, Hong Kong was returned to China on 1 July 1997. That’s 22 years ago.
    
    2 1
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    September 2, 2019 9:15pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Hong Kong citizens were guaranteed 50 years autonomy when Britain handed the Colony over to PRC.
      Chapter 1, Article 5 of the Hong Kong Basic Law, the constitutional document of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, reads:
      
      The socialist system and policies shall not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, and the previous capitalist system and way of life shall remain unchanged for 50 years.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems
      
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      September 2, 2019 10:51pm
Fletch

Ahh liberals… You gotta laugh at them.

Bernie Sanders is campaigning for a so-called “living wage” of US$15 an hour and his staffers complain and ask why they aren’t making that much then.

So what does Sanders do? He pays them the living wage and cuts the hours they work. So they are pretty much making the same as they were before. 😆

Hypocrite.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7270501/Bernie-Sanders-admits-CUT-hours-staffers-not-getting-15-minimum-wage.html
36 0
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September 2, 2019 1:30pm
Simon

Geez what a piece of shit.
21 0
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September 2, 2019 1:36pm
- gorse
  
  He’s a socialist, what do you expect?
  
  17 2
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  September 2, 2019 2:49pm
Right of way is Way of Right

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/114545019/antivaxxers-target-new-parents-while-others-nurse-their-critically-ill-kids

These barely credible so called ‘health professionals’ are preaching a barely concealed anti-vaxx rhetoric under the guise of ‘informed consent’. Perhaps some genuine health professionals need to sit in on their seminars and determine their course content.

God forbid, if a child dies from measles, they should be forced to attend the funeral!
21 3
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September 2, 2019 1:37pm
- Batman
  
  That’s the problem, it’s all done under the radar of the health system, to an extent.
  
  They know they’d be shut down otherwise, hence all the clever names for the classes
  
  8 0
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  September 2, 2019 1:49pm
- david
  
  The article amazingly refers to the practice as “midwife-led”
  What sort of advice are midwives advocating generally and regarding vaccines, particularly?
  
  10 0
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  September 2, 2019 2:03pm
  - Batman
    
    Most are pretty good but you can find a ‘natural’ ‘chemical free’ midwife if you look hard enough…
    
    9 0
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    September 2, 2019 2:10pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Time to bring back all midwives into a standard nursing qualification.. not a separate course where they seem unaware of the basics of disease prevention.
    
    14 0
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    September 2, 2019 2:55pm
  - tf78
    
    I know of two women who were shamed into breast feed only – both the children are way behind in development, I just hope they improve with age. These mid-wives can be quite detrimental to new mothers.
    
    4 0
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    September 2, 2019 6:57pm
  - GoVege
    
    I’m definitely not surprised if these courses promoting “choice” in whether to vaccinate or not, are “midwife-led”.
    Its just a natural progression from the brainless mantra that “childbirth is a natural process”….therefore there is no need for medical intervention (i.e. doctors and specialists) and no need for newborns to remain in hospital for more than a few hours.
    
    3 0
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    September 2, 2019 7:40pm
alwyn

There is a story in The Australian today about a change of heart from the Labour Party in Tasmania. The have, apparently, come to their senses about their Green Party ex-allies in the State Parliament.
I wonder whether the New Zealand Labour Party will be as sensible?
I have reproduced a summary of the story from the Roy Morgan daily newsletter. The original is behind a paywall.

“Tasmanian Labor leader Rebecca White says the party will not share power with the Greens in the future. White has told Labor’s state conference that past alliances with the Greens were a “mistake”, while she claims that the Greens talk down to anyone who disagrees with their views. White says the results of the most recent federal and Tasmanian elections show that Labor needs to reconnect with its traditional voters. With the next Tasmanian election due by March 2022, White says Labor will concentrate on policies to boost jobs and to restore health and other services”

It looks as if the Greens in Tasmania are just as bad as our local bunch of ferals.
27 0
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September 2, 2019 2:06pm
chaos

What was announced by this government is a joke and shows that still cancer is not taken serious in New Zealand.

*$60m for new cancer drugs is piddly

I don’t want to sound ungrateful, but was that it? Really?

The Government has announced $20 million in extra funding this year and $40m extra next year.

Seriously?

Let me give you some perspective, we spend about $1 billion on drugs through Pharmac who, until yesterday, had a world-class model – but that was a blatant lie and politicians could no longer keep a straight face saying it.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/duncan-garner-60m-for-new-cancer-drugs-is-piddly.html
12 1
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September 2, 2019 2:14pm
- chaos
  
  It’s interesting when you think of it, only $60 million in this nation wide plan
  
  Pike mine is up to $36 million and will likely blow past that
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast/countdown-pike-river-mine-re-entry
  
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  September 2, 2019 6:43pm
chaos

Rumour has it Winston’s last attempt at a sense of humour transplant failed, rejected before they could even put it in him.

*Paula Bennett thinks Winston Peters needs to “lighten up” and “get a sense of humour” after he rebuked a bunch of flowers she sent him while in hospital.

Bennett, National’s deputy leader, told Magic Talk the pair have a “pretty cordial and polite” relationship, but she feels Peters is holding onto grudges from “decades ago”.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/paula-bennett-tells-winston-peters-to-lighten-up-and-get-a-sense-of-humour.html
16 0
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September 2, 2019 2:44pm
kowtow

The mass shootings in the USA that our media party won’t be reporting.

‘At least 25 people have been shot — seven of them fatally — so far in gun violence across Chicago over the Labor Day holiday weekend.’

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2019/9/1/20841934/7-killed-18-wounded-chicago-labor-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-homicide
8 1
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September 2, 2019 3:07pm
- fernglas
  
  Those aren’t mass shootings, they are multiple everyday gun homicides, of which Chicago and the US has far too many, so many in fact that they are of little news value.
  
  1 2
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  September 2, 2019 5:28pm
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND: THE FONTERRA FIASCO … CONTINUES …

Keith Woodford lays out how Fonterra’s Chilean profits and market share have been dropping, and how its farmers have been deserting for other processors. He says write-downs appear likely … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/101478/keith-woodford-lays-out-how-fonterra%E2%80%99s-chilean-profits-and-market-share-have-been

With Fonterra announcing big write-downs on its asset values in China, Brazil, Venezuela and New Zealand, is it a fair question to ask what other assets elsewhere in the world might also need to be written down? Have we heard all the bad news?

The two biggest questions relate to Australia and Chile. These are Fonterra’s biggest overseas milk pools, which no longer fit clearly within the new emerging Fonterra strategy.

I recently wrote about concerns for Australia, where Fonterra has announced plans to write down assets by $70 million. In that article I expressed concern that much bigger write-downs might be needed.

Since then, my Australian network confirms that, particularly in Northern Victoria, Fonterra is indeed in big trouble, and heading towards more stranded assets. The problems are growing by the month. In July, Fonterra’s monthly Australian milk supply was 5.4 million kg milksolids (fat plus protein) whereas two years ago it was 8.3 million kg milksolids. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
FMA looking into Fonterra’s asset write downs and financial performance following complaint … John Anthony … Stuff NZ

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/115457601/fma-looking-into-fonterras-asset-write-downs-and-financial-performance-following-complaint
.
.
New Zealand’s sick government hack culture ( Fonterra are government hacks masquerading as business people ) … the higher the pay, the worse the performance ( the ‘three I’s’ of New Zealand government hacks … insolence, ignorance & incompetence ) … starting from the top …

What Heads of Governments get paid (in US$) – Kiwiblog

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/09/what_heads_of_governments_get_paid_in_us.html
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September 2, 2019 3:29pm
- tf78
  
  Hugh, if I were a Kiwi dairy farmer I would be just so peeved. These Fonterra idiots wouldn’t have done a hard days work in their lives.
  
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  September 2, 2019 7:09pm
BeaB

It’s hard to know what to think about Jay Jay Feeney. Of course we want sex offenders to be caught and stopped. We want victims to speak up.
But as the defence lawyer says, one of them lied and the taxi driver has been acquitted – after a second trial.
I hope she lets it drop and doesn’t make a meal of it in the media. She’ll feel hurt, humiliated (the driver thought she was too old!) and ashamed of her drunken behaviour.
But she chose to make it public and a jury didn’t believe her story.
9 0
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September 2, 2019 3:29pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I had to google who Jay Jay Feeney was.
  
  Apologies I must have been asleep.
  
  3 0
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  September 2, 2019 5:38pm
- JibberJabber
  
  The Defence lawyer has an interesting take on the case.
  
  Singh’s defence lawyer, Marie Dhyrberg said Feeney’s story was “a drunken attempt for attention from her ex-husband, got so out of control it took on a life of its own”.
  
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  September 2, 2019 5:48pm
Tony Stuart

More interesting evidence in the Labour Party summer camp trial. After two alleged indecent assaults, they tried to get the accused to go to bed and sleep it off. That contrasts completely with the story given at the time, that the complaints only came to light the next morning.

Repeated attempts were then made to get the young man to bed and sleep it off, Johnstone said.

But, the prosecutor alleged, the accused made an inappropriate comment to two women helping him before groping one.

The 21-year-old couldn’t remember much from the night, Johnstone said.

“Perhaps this trial is what it takes to fill in the remaining gaps for him.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263955
20 1
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September 2, 2019 3:35pm
- chaos
  
  So basically they supplied enough alcohol for him to be off his face and after two assaults they just wanted him to sleep it off. The people running this camp should be charged.
  
  16 0
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  September 2, 2019 3:48pm
- burt
  
  Well spotted, you are right. It’s almost like they were telling lies trying to cover it up.
  
  16 1
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  September 2, 2019 4:08pm
  - sooty
    
    Who supplied the booze and how come the adult supervisor went to bed early?
    
    13 0
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    September 2, 2019 4:29pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      And why wasn’t the adult supervisor woken up when it was obvious that “Waihi, we have a problem”?
      
      13 0
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      September 2, 2019 4:48pm
      - chaos
        
        I remember my primary school camps in the 80s, students sent to bed to sleep, not like we did, while the parents were all in the parents area getting drunk. Can’t help but wonder if the supervisor was really asleep here or pissed off their rocker too
        
        8 0
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        September 2, 2019 6:26pm
- Nostradamus
  
  The following text summarises the NZ Herald article (which Tony has linked to) without expressing a view.
  
  Complainant 1:
  
  [Defence lawyer Emma Priest] said the first charge, an accusation of squeezing a man’s genitals, was the result of the complainant wanting to be “part of the drama” created by other accusations.
  
  Complainant 2:
  
  The allegations relating to the second complainant, Priest said, simply didn’t happen.
  She said her client “did something completely different which was meant as a joke”.
  
  Complainant 3:
  
  Priest said the accused had a complete defence to the fourth charge, an allegation of unwanted kissing. “She wanted it,” Priest said. “There is no indecent assault here.”
  
  Complainant 4:
  
  Priest said her client doesn’t recall any such incident but “is adamant he did not sexually assault her”.
  
  So, in summary, the defence is: a me-too complainant (complainant 1); didn’t happen (complainants 2 and 4); and consent (complainant 3).
  
  15 0
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  September 2, 2019 4:08pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    In the present climate, I would suggest “she wanted it” is a very dangerous defence. Especially when the person who thought “she wanted it” was as pissed as a parrot, and can’t remember most of what happened on the night in question!
    
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    September 2, 2019 4:45pm
  - rockape
    
    You would think his Mum would just tell him to man up!
    
    6 0
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    September 2, 2019 8:21pm
chaos

Argh. These idiots that think they can attack people for parking in disability parking spots annoy me. I hope the police can catch this useless piece of our society, but then again if the police do the justice system will just let them off with a warning.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264023

*A terminally ill Hastings man wants people to become more aware of conditions you can’t see after someone left threatening notes and caused $3000 of damage to his car when he parked in a mobility spot.*
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September 2, 2019 3:44pm
- tf78
  
  chaos – without being disrespectful to the disabled, what do they do when their car parks are full of legitimate parkers?
  
  5 1
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  September 2, 2019 7:13pm
wreck1080

“‘Devastated’: Radio personality Jay-Jay Feeney speaks out after taxi driver acquitted of sex assault”

I don’t think there could have been any other decision than not guilty. While I didn’t sit through the trial, I did read the media reporting.

It was classic ‘he said , she said’. How could any jury convict on that?

There was just no evidence other than her word and his word — can a jury convict on whom they find most trustworthy? I hope not (but they do sometimes) because some people are very very good liars.
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September 2, 2019 3:47pm
igm

Have you noticed Stuff have this despicable display of filth unobtrusively placed, yet John Key was headlines (for months) for tugging some sheila’s pony tail. Even some radio host’s dismissed charges of filth against a taxi driver made lead headlines. Bet this scumbag gets off with lifelong suspension of identity just like a ex-Labour MP’s dishonesty charges, even though he was convicted.
14 3
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September 2, 2019 5:33pm
- tf78
  
  igm – There are two sides to every story and then “there’s the TRUTH”.
  
  7 0
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  September 2, 2019 7:15pm
- stigie
  
  This is always worth repeating………….
  It’s always fucking different when Labour does it..?
  
  10 1
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  September 2, 2019 7:51pm
- fernglas
  
  Maybe there’s a difference between some pissed kid who got well out of order, and the Prime Minister?
  
  5 1
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  September 2, 2019 8:01pm
- chaos
  
  Case is before the courts media have to be careful on how they report it
  
  5 0
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  September 2, 2019 8:27pm
Sacha

The thing about the pony-tail incident was that everyone knew that there was no ‘sexual’ motivation. People just laughed – well, most people – at a 20-something sense-of-humour-deficient woman who couldn’t sort it out for herself if she was so offended.

But this is very different.
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September 2, 2019 7:38pm
srylands

Well there’s your problem. Why is inequality and climate change any concern of Auckland Council?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/115462373/stuff-auckland-mayoral-debate-live-phil-goff-john-tamihere-jannaha-henry-and-craig-lord-face-off
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September 2, 2019 8:36pm
Kabull

Andrew Bolt calling out the climate extremists for using children to peddle their nonsense. He suggests (correctly) that Greta Thunberg’s escapade is an example of how they are hiding behind youngsters who know no better. A good watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1bo_rzRbM8
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September 2, 2019 9:31pm
softail 1450

Anyone know where that POS Peters is ?he seems to have vanished ,I truly hope he is having big trouble with his new knee,6 or 8 weeks of pain would be a great outcome as punishment for foisting this clusterf—-k of a coalition onto the people of NZ.
That sly dog is responsible more than any other politician for the state of NZ politics,he’s nothing more than a self serving traitor……..
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September 3, 2019 6:16am

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