General Debate 8 November 2019

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Maggie Pie

HOPE HE POKES ME

– Ice Cream Makes You Happy –

😛
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November 8, 2019 8:00am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Maggie
  Thank god you were blessed with a great sense of humour, BUT
  “HE” is very sexist, should be HOPE I GET POKED
  It is not only “HE” that can poke in this woke society!
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    It is actually a thing you know Greg… 😀
    
    https://www.notsocks.co.nz/hope-he-pokes-me-hokey-pokey
    
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    November 8, 2019 8:35am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Yes Maggie, the point I am trying to make is, how can they get away with this in this woke society and you can be seen as spreading hurtful material.
      I find it very amusing, many out there would see this as a complete afront to rationality.
      Many have been pole axed on twitter for alot less.
      Love your posts, keep them up.
      
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      November 8, 2019 9:38am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Rubbish.
        There will come a time again when a new puritanism will take over once more.
        
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        November 8, 2019 9:48am
      - brett68
        
        Bit of a fan of Barry Humphries?
        
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        November 8, 2019 9:51am
    - RightNow
      
      Almost as good as an ice cream shop I saw in Bali called Lick me till… ice cream
      
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      November 8, 2019 11:17am
    - Ruahine
      
      Oh! and look it’s gluten free. That will make a lot of people happy.
      
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      November 8, 2019 11:35am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Maggie
      I see it’s currently out of stock. You must have insatiable levels of hope. I trust that all your consequent screaming does indeed make you happy.
      
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      November 8, 2019 1:49pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  PC gone insane!
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:45am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YUP, couldn’t agree more – what’s our country coming to?
    
    https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1192265680902471680
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:11am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    PC is insane
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:39am
- cmm
  
  Where do the Krispy Kremes go?
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:53am
  - Fletch
    
    Get in mah belly….
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:27am
- kloyd0306
  
  Name the moron who complained.
  Name the morons on the board who agreed.
  Name the morons who appointed the morons to the board.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:40am
- Ruahine
  
  Can I have another one Maggie?
  Yummy Yummy Yummy I’ve got love in my Tummy.
  Ohio Express 1968.
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:49pm
artemisia

Barry Soper: When those in media become part of the story

Barry Soper – when explaining is losing.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12283407
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November 8, 2019 8:02am
- alex Masterley
  
  Soper sounded a bit defensive there.
  Having said that I think from his comments the likely hood that Paula Bennett will be found liable for any “leak” causing a breach of privacy seems very slight and even though Anne Tolley told her staff that does not mean she personally was responsible either.
  This is because time line as far as i can tell suggests that the information was already leaked when the no surprises briefing were given.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:53am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    If he was being defensive it was about the idiocy of the press reporting that he sat at the back of the Court room with Peters when his evidence was finished.
    If we ever needed reminding how the reality can be worse than the practice Anne Tolley did that, gossiping in the family about private information. I think, as Soper says, had the passage of private information passed under a ‘no surprise’ convention (1 that is not supported by Law) then the Court case would not have happened.
    In another article I saw the Crown defending the department heads saying that it was their job to pass the information, but there is no law supporting that when it comes to private information.
    The Privacy Act is an odd beast as we see from some apparently reasonable requests under the Act being turned down – a doctor allegedly prescribing the wrong medicine and so on.
    What ever results from this case Parliament is going to have to take a look at the ‘no surprise’ policy. It was certainly misused here and has been before.
    As for Anne Tolley her honesty as a politician was refreshing and she was a standout in the last government with some of the tougher portfolios.
    Lastly because something is known despite it being a privacy or court suppressed issue it’s still an offence to repeat it.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:19am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Made a mistake in my post above, should have been had the information ‘not passed’ under a ‘no surprise convention’ the case would not have happened etc.
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:15am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Brian, if you read Soper’s piece carefully, it is he who is being disingenuous, and should like his friend Wynstone think of retiring. He is now claiming he learned of the info weeks before the leak from National. Then the leak (& he is one of the journalists to get a call). Given National had already given the info to Soper, knowing he would probably report it back to Wynston, does he really believe National were out to damage Wynston by leaking the info to him (& others) a second time?
        
        He still claims it was National that leaked, but has provided no evidence, he suggests the court must rely on his word under oath. To support his argument that National was the source of the leak, he is now arguing it was caused by the “No surprises” policy, with the inference that if the info hadn’t been passed up to the ministers, there would have been no leak. That is an unsupported assumption & is cobblers.
        
        He also contends the reporting of his actions post giving evidence was mischievous, well telling us he appeared only because he received a subpoena is disingenuous claptrap. The subpoena is a convenient cover for him, in that it makes him look like he is a witness who was required by the court rather a patsy witness for the plaintiff.
        
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        November 8, 2019 1:04pm
  - Right of way is Way of Right
    
    Anne Tolley was certainly unwise to repeat the information outside the bounds of confidentiality, but it does speak volumes that she states she repeated the information due to the frustration in dealing with a relative who thought that the sun shone brightly from Winston’s fundamental orifice.
    
    Anne’s veracity is not in question however. No-one has claimed that she has lied, at all, but I would say they she has committed a privacy breach!
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:28am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      For Winston to succeed in damages in this civil case he has to show that Tolley’s admitted breach had the monetary negative value he is claiming. Probability zero. He would have to prove the person spoken to spoke to someone significant etc., etc., etc. Did they do a $1 worth of damage?
      
      Any likely damage has most probably come from the senile old geeezer who has paraded around claiming all and sundry are harming him. He has given publicly more of the story than anybody. Others may have repeated what his unfortunate mouth has blurted out. There is no reward for self-harm.
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:03am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Anne Tolley got front page news for telling her sister and husband about the information. Were Soper, Melanie Reid also asked whether they told anyone else including family members and or partners?
    
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    November 8, 2019 2:39pm
- Happychappy
  
  One good point is that Barry Soper knows that one or more Journalists think he overstepped the mark, hence the story of him sitting with Peter’s and Henry at the back of the court room. Barry has always run with the hares and hunted with the hounds. This story would never have air if Winston Peter’s had not been so arrogant and filled the forms in correctly.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:40am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Nope, there are 1000s of people who don’t fill out forms correctly everyday which is pointed out by officials. So the blame for that is spread to the officials some of whom apparently wanted their photos taken with him. Odd that, because he was supposed to have gone to another officer further from his home which was ‘suspicious.’
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:18am
- michael_s2
  
  Soper claims he knew about the overpayment “weeks earlier” which was before Tolley and Bennet were told under “no surprises”.
  
  He went and sat with Peters immediately after giving evidence because he had known him for years, he says. Others might believe it was to have his tummy rubbed and be told he had been a good dog.
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:21am
  - lifesgood
    
    Soper is a clown, desperate to keep in good with his mate, Winston. and don’t think for one minute he doesn’t get into bed with his child bride and tell everything he knows about everyone. He is not only being defensive but also disingenuous.
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:27am
- RW Capitalist
  
  3 quotes from the article:
  The issue was brought to my attention in strict confidence by National several weeks before Peters went public with the over payment after questions had been asked of him about it.
  
  My source was confidential and to reveal it would compromise the very fabric of journalism.
  
  And that’s the sort of politics that should have no place in this country.
  
  1. When give/told something in”strict confidence”, I suggest Mr Soper, you review the meaning in the Oxford English Dictionary….You caused this!!!
  2. Peters would still be receiving the “over payment” if had not become public. Review his past behaviour.
  3. ….Fabric of journalism…….over stating your actual importance and ability, just a tad?
  4. As for that sort of Politics…
  That you started
  note:
  Wine box
  Helicopter rides
  Paying private detectives to go through Bill English’s rubbish
  Crashing National Party event and recording PRIVATE conversations
  All shown to be tactics of the CoL, from past days.
  This is NOTHING.
  Apart from perhaps exposing Winnie as potentially a thief of WINZ money? As implied in many articles written?
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:47am
  - sooty
    
    Metoo becomes Wetoo!
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:34am
Greg Ettridge

Now that the Zero carbon is done and dusted, I will be interesting to see if one of the 11,000 expert scientists Mickey Mouse will lead the charge in fighting the worlds worst disaster.
I always thought Mickey Mouse was a fictional character Walt Disney created in 1928.
The first short he appeared in was plane crazy.
There is in my opinion, a case to to say that Mickey and man, sorry person made climate change have much in common.
Both are pure fantasy, both created to generate huge sums of money.
Unfortunately that’s where it stops, Mickey was for pure entertainment, Zero carbon is designed as a socialist tool to totally garrote the New Zealand economy for no benefit I can clearly see.
Please, someone tell me, if New Zealand starting reducing it’s emissions by 1% per year, what percentage of the worlds carbon dioxide and methane will be affected.
From the official website
“New Zealand’s gross GHG emissions increased 19.6 percent from 1990 to 2016. “
https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/new-zealands-greenhouse-gas-emissions
All this puss and pain for no gain.
Jacinda and her green mates might like to star in the 2019 version of “Plane Crazy”, that is what they are. Only one politician can work out the facts from verbal socialist crap.
And to think nearly 100% of the public supported the politicians that voted for this.
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November 8, 2019 8:03am
- BobbyS
  
  There is ZERO proof of what the actual temperatures have been on earth for the past 30 million years
  What makes these “scientists” believe their actual, factual data from the past 200 years is enough to prove their calculations from the past and in to the future are 100% accurate?
  NO carbon dating is not 100% accurate
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:20am
  - tf78
    
    There were very few if any proper scientists in the group of 11,000. (online petitioners)
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:05am
  - Fletch
    
    There is also no proof that CO2 affects global temperature that much, but you can’t tax water (which makes up 90% of greenhouse gas) so…. ?
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:30am
    - DJ Ward
      
      Yes you can. Charge for water and collect GST. Levi water use on farms etc.
      
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      November 8, 2019 9:57am
  - projectman
    
    Agree, and remember that some of the data ‘from the last 200 years’ has been manipulated to bolster their story.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:48am
- dave_c_
  
  They are not looking for benefits – rather ‘Control’.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:25am
  - freethinker
    
    Gun confiscation, cash elimination, hate speech laws,etc etc yes total control then population control equals slaves for those remaining. Wake up citizens the Elites cannot beat numbers, the world is small and they cannot hide time for action.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:20am
- rangitoto
  
  There’s some heavy hiiters on the 11,000 list. Not just Professor Mouse. Don’t forget Albus Dumbledore and Dr Aardvaark.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:28am
- Than
  
  That 11,000 figure sounds like a lot, but put in context it really isn’t. The world population is 7.7 billion after all.
  
  If 1% of that world population are scientists, and 1% of those are environmental scientists, then only 1.5% of environmental scientists signed the letter.
  
  All this letter tells us is that a meme went viral in certain academic social circles.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:28am
  - Simon
    
    Researchers say that when 500-year-long sun cycles brought warmth, communities flourished, but when the Earth cooled, ancient societies collapsed
    
    Over the decades, researchers have established more than 4,000 carbon dating databases for archaeological finds in northern China.
    
    Citing this and earlier studies, Xu said that over the next few decades the Earth would enter 25 years of cooling, although greenhouse gases could slow the temperature drop.
    
    Cooling would increase the size of polar ice caps and lower sea levels. Areas such as southern China could benefit as land would be reclaimed from the sea.
    
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3029959/climate-theory-casting-new-light-history-chinese-civilisation
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:04am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      How has climate changed?
      
      Global average temperatures have increased over the past century
      
      Climate and sea level were relatively stable over thousands of years of recorded human history up to the 19th century, although with some variations (Figure 2.1b). However, globally averaged near-surface air temperature rose by around 0.8°C between 1850 and 2012 (Figure 2.1c). The rate of warming increased in the mid-1970s, and each of the most recent three decades has been warmer than all preceding decades since 1850. The last decade has been the warmest of these. Satellite observations and direct measurements also show warming in the lower atmosphere over the past three decades. In contrast, the atmosphere above about 15 km elevation (the stratosphere) has cooled over this time.
      The temperature of the oceans has also risen. More than 90% of the total heat accumulated in the climate system between 1971 and 2010 has been stored in the oceans. The greatest ocean warming has taken place close to the surface, with the upper 75 m of the ocean warming by an average of 0.11°C each decade between 1971 and 2010….”
      
      With multiple examples of these kind of effects follows…
      
      https://www.science.org.au/learning/general-audience/science-climate-change/2-how-has-climate-changed
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:17am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        You seem to have a better handle on this than experts like Mickey Mouse, can you tell me if Mr Shaw announced a 1% reduction in NZ emissions, what would the percentage of world emissions would this be?
        No one seems to be able to answer this very important question?
        Climate does change, you have to have the IQ of a kumquat if you think CO2 and methane controls in NZ will have any effect.
        Give me the figures.
        Most probably very hard to do, as it is most probably virtually impossible to put it in an equation.
        I will throw you a lifeline, just make it a percentage of Chinas emissions. That should let you get rid of a few of the zeros, not many mind you.
        Let me guess, is it 0000000000000.1%?
        
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        November 8, 2019 10:43am
      - alloytoo
        
        Climate and sea level were relatively stable over thousands of years of recorded human history up to the 19th century.
        
        And this ladies and gentlemen is a true climate denier.
        
        Denying substantial climate change in recorded history, never mind pre-history.
        
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        November 8, 2019 11:33am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    This puts some context into the 11,000 scientists bull shit
    
    http://joannenova.com.au/2016/05/john-cook-wins-award-as-friend-of-planet/
    
    Looks like I will be voting Act next year.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:14am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      rightoverlabour , voting ACT next year. You and 0.0001 % other voters on KB and elsewhere .
      
      Ho Hum!
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:20am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        you mean statstically 20 times more likely than NZ reducing its carbon footprint 1%
        get those pen pushers crunching the figures, not just some figment of your imagination.
        
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        November 8, 2019 10:47am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        Another question Stephie
        Who now has supreme power to pole axe the NZ economy?
        1) James Shaw
        2) Winston Peters
        3)Jacinda Ardern
        4)Simon Bridges
        
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        November 8, 2019 10:51am
  - chaos
    
    85,000 in the usa
    
    https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/environmental-scientists-and-specialists.htm
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:14am
  - alloytoo
    
    Argumentum Ad Populum
    
    That’s favoured by Young Earth Creationists isn’t it?
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:25am
    - Gazza the Giant
      
      Wait and see what Bridges says or does , he wants to change 7 parts of the law , I have been reliably told that the Nats will change their minds on this before the election , going to the polls saying they will axe this law altogether , it then gives them a point of difference before the election , Jackson virtually agreed this morning on Newslug
      
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      November 8, 2019 4:20pm
- Inandout
  
  But Greg, that 11,000 lie is perfectly timed for our clowns voting for the Zero bill.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:46am
- Lance
  
  I think we should stop polluting so much and think globally about a better way going forward.
  
  That being said;
  The last 30 years of summers in Auckland have been pretty much lacking in serious heat. Maybe it’s just the Northern Hemisphere that’s heating or the weather sucks over Auckland only, but I’m still waiting for it get hotter than when I was a kid.
  
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  November 8, 2019 11:21am
plc

Strangely in the 27 years I have been a father, Oranga Tamariki/CYFS/Social Welfare never felt the need to remove my children from the family.

I must have been very lucky…..or perhaps I didn’t place my children in environments where that was necessary.
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November 8, 2019 8:03am
- G152
  
  Possibly you actually cared for your kids, fed and clothed them and didn’t give them the bash.
  Which is why the ‘social services’ left you off their visiting list
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:12am
  - plc
    
    Pretty sure it was because I was non-Maori and we now know that our “social services” are racist and completely obsessed with stealing Maori children from the safety of their whanua.
    
    Thankfully things will now change so those children can now flourish like the Kahui twins, Nia Glassie and Moko Rangitoheriri….oh wait 🙁
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:40am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Was listening to the CEO of Oranga Tamariki.
      She said they will be putting in place systems that review all decisions and consult with “relevant” parties etc etc
      My Thought:
      At the Glacial pace that govt. dept.s work at:
      They’ll be just in time to pick up the corpse.
      
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      November 8, 2019 11:01am
tedbear

Winston Peters to MSD “Don’t you know who I am?”
MSD to Winston Peters “Another lowlife trying to rip off the taxpayers perhaps?”
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November 8, 2019 8:05am
- Prince
  
  “How could they not know, my partner accompanied me to the interview…”
  
  She sat at reception then left early to get the car.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:53am
  - freethinker
    
    More deception.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:22am
  - dubya
    
    Perhaps they thought she was his carer.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:34am
  - kevn
    
    @Price… Govt limo waiting outside a WINZ office… Classy.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:49am
    - david
      
      Nah, it has been shown that he wasn’t an MP at the time.
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:11am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Which makes me a bit more suspicious of his “innocent mistake” explanation.
        
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        November 8, 2019 10:46am
      - sooty
        
        Was he relying on the pension at that stage?
        Was he on any MPs pension scheme then?
        Was he still driving his MPs provided car then thath e was bloody late returning from the last time he was an MP?
        Wheres the $158,000 you stole?
        
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        November 8, 2019 3:30pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Jan had to bring the car to the door because wheezing for two blocks is beyond me?
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:05am
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    Exactly , and the mongrel stated for 2 years she was at his side in the interview , what a clown he is , this is his attitude in life and politics , its never my fault , it must be dodgy MSD , only one person dodgy
    
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    November 8, 2019 4:23pm
- cmm
  
  Dream on.
  
  When they started calling beneficiaries “customers” their ability to manage bludgers really started going downhill.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:00am
kevn

Strangely enough, it seems to have become a battle between the baby boomers and x gen.
Witness swarbricks uttering getting global coverage.
Divide and conquer.
Seems quite obvious.
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November 8, 2019 8:09am
- SGA
  
  Is it anything new, though? The 1960’s, to take an obvious example, saw plenty of intergenerational differences of opinion/world view.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:09am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Over things like the Vietnam war.
    Not over who deserves the bigger slice of the tax payer pie.
    BTW it is the boomers, as they have already contributed to society and built the things/ toys the gen xer’s have come so use to PLAYING with.
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:05am
    - SGA
      
      Over things like the Vietnam war.
      
      That’s a little simplistic. You are forgetting issues such as the civil rights movement, sexual morality, abortion, and feminism.
      
      Not over who deserves the bigger slice of the tax payer pie.
      
      Again, I think that is simplistic. Like it or not, disagree with it or not, climate change is an issue with many of the younger generation.
      
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      November 8, 2019 12:59pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        climate change is an issue used to dupe.. many of the younger generation.
        There fixed it for ya.
        
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        November 8, 2019 4:30pm
      - SGA
        
        What was broken? Your equivalent in the 1960s would have been talking about youth duped by socialists into opposing Vietnam.
        
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        November 8, 2019 7:00pm
  - kevn
    
    @SGA… Yes, but not quite as noxious/toxic as the present. The last 2-3 years has become eye poppingly promoted by soros and his ilk. Huge funding to suit the globalist agenda.
    The Mill/ x gen don’t seem to realise how they are played.
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:32pm
    - SGA
      
      Yes, but not quite as noxious/toxic as the present.
      
      Not sure either of us is in any position to judge, are we? What did the many who lived through the depression and served during WW2 make of the youth movements of the 60s? Toxic and noxious, perhaps? Disrespectful of what had been given to them by others’ sacrifice? Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose?
      
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      November 8, 2019 2:36pm
- MCos
  
  I thought her remark, under the circumstances, was fairly amusing.
  Now people are practically writing PhD theses on what was a throwaway retort to some bored heckler.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:47am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Not a throwaway retort. Debaters practice dealing with hecklers, and pre-prepare an assortment of responses with malice-aforethought.
    
    Is she going to go wah wah wah next time someone dismisses her as a child or silly little girl?
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:04am
    - MCos
      
      A mistake often seen in politics is underestimation of your opponent.
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:35am
    - sam green
      
      But she is neither of those things.
      
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      November 8, 2019 12:02pm
John Warren

https://shorthand.radionz.co.nz/climate-change-next-generation/index.html

Scaremongering, much?
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November 8, 2019 8:10am
- BobbyS
  
  WT actual F!!!!!!
  This is seriously getting out of hand
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:28am
pb

Who’s following the civil war within the “conservative” movement in America? Groypers versus Charlie Kirk & co. Squirmy questions asked of the new-left-liberal “conservatives”. Same thing (on steroids) is occuring in NZ, but we have consumed too much porn and are too weak to start a co-ordinated fight back.
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November 8, 2019 8:10am
- Paginus
  
  Charlie Kirk and his sodomy agenda
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJJQEVzTyzU
  
  2 4
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  November 8, 2019 10:17am
  - pb
    
    The right has been infiltrated! It’s like Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy movie. Except they forgot to mention in the movie that the traitors were Cambridge communist sodomites.
    
    PJW on board now. https://youtu.be/UO4N2qQdwuI
    
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    November 8, 2019 2:07pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    You mean Kochservative Charlie ‘Candice Owens Dumped My Ass’ Kirk. He is just a stooge for the US Israel lobby. Well paid for it though.
    
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    November 8, 2019 3:18pm
Nukuleka

Interested to see that the NZSO is to perform Beethoven’s 9th symphony next year with the Ode to Joy sung in a ‘new version’- in Maori.

The same people who will be applauding this venture would be the very same good folk who would be voicing disapproval and disdain were it to be sung in English rather than the original German. Many a tut tut and phrases such as ‘cultural appropriation’. The sky would fall in, of course, were a group of Germans to sing the haka in German! What’s the difference?
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November 8, 2019 8:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How can the classic German poetic text be translated into Maori with its very limited vocab? Whaka this and whaka that…
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Probably the same way Shakespeare is translated into Te Reo:
    Maori in Shakespeare draws backlash from unhappy punters
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11977481
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:34am
  - Inandout
    
    KO, what next, Das Kapital or Mein Kampf in Maori?
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:48am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Na,
      Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone
      https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/10-10-2019/harry-potter-among-100-books-set-to-be-translated-into-te-reo-maori/
      
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      November 8, 2019 11:20am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Maori had a destructive system for delivering the redistribution of wealth and possessions; Muru, the theft or robbery. If you offended rules of conduct or committed some transgression of social norms then everyone was entitled to take some item of your stuff – bigger or smaller depending on your relative status. Anyone who accumulated a lot of goodies would be targeted or scape-goated and made poor again. Nice way of keeping industrious types down and society in general poor.
      
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      November 8, 2019 12:24pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Origins of the Tall Poppy syndrome?
        
        2 0
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        November 8, 2019 12:49pm
      - KH
        
        Thought that was the current system.
        
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        November 8, 2019 7:19pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  Absolute vs. programmatic.
  
  I never cared much for the lyrics in the 9th.
  
  The music however stands on its own and transports thee into timelessness. That is the power of the 9th.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ode to Joy has been sung many, many times in English.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMY3ivdNzwE
  
  3 7
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  November 8, 2019 9:13am
  - MCos
    
    Beatles singing in German
    
    The horror!
    
    https://youtu.be/3vx8qpaKmlk
    
    3 3
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    November 8, 2019 10:01am
- stephieboy
  
  Well what about Psalm 23 and other hymns?. Would that be cultural appropriation? Not forgetting the Bible which readily translates into Te Reo Maori.
  
  Is that cultural appropriation?
  
  1 27
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  November 8, 2019 9:51am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Not at all. The Bible is for all peoples and all times. The message is to go the the ends of the earth so translation is implicit. The koine Greek is explicit and reasonable easy to render into another environment.
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:09am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      So, is your position really that the Bible has less sophisticated language than Schiller’s poem?
      
      2 4
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      November 8, 2019 11:00am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It may well have–it was written in the common language. The Hebrew Bible I cannot comment on,
        The language tool is independent of the message.
        
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        November 8, 2019 3:06pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Scholars generally recognize three languages as original biblical languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek.
    the full Bible has been translated into 698 languages,
    Cultural appropriation, is a ridiculous notion.
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:11am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Jesus undoubtedly spoke Hebrew, it is conjectured on good grounds that he spoke Aramaic with many of his followers, it is highly unlikely he knew or spoke Greek, and unlikely that anyone he knew or conversed with to any degree knew or spoke Greek.
      
      Greek is introduced in Pauline times, when Paul led his mission to the Gentiles and spread early Christianity beyond it’s initial Jewish origins. Paul himself almost certainly knew Greek, both written and spoken.
      
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      November 8, 2019 1:23pm
      - Jack5
        
        Jesus undoubtedly spoke Hebrew?
        
        According to Wikipedia, he spoke Aramaic and knew a bit of Greek (but according to Radio NZ he was learning Te Reo, and according to people in Cardiff, it was always Welsh).
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus
        
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        November 8, 2019 4:15pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        One small point
        That small part of the bible was written about Jesus, not by him.
        
        1 0
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        November 8, 2019 4:29pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  So who are these people who complain about singing Beethoven in English but are happy for him to be sung in Maori? Give an example.
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:15am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Chortle.
    
    2 5
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    November 8, 2019 11:01am
  - sam green
    
    Nukuleka it seems.
    
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    November 8, 2019 12:05pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Urbanism Day!
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November 8, 2019 8:13am
oldpark

Another attack on Wellingtons’ Ratepayers . This time by the also ran born to rule Liebor/Green stooge Justin Lester. After having his arse handed to him by Andy Foster in the recent Wellington Council Election. He lost, Andy won, yet the also ran Lester wants a recount ,nothing wrong with that except he wants the Wellington Ratepayers to fund the recount. The price will be circa $100,000 Ouch!
Surely if he feels his cause for a recount is not a failure,let him fund the recount himself. If successful then he gets rei-mbursed.
Not being satisfied with a computer generated recount the now unemployed entitled Lester has the gall to call for a hand recount.Once more as long as Wellingtons’long suffering Ratepayers foot the bill .Talk about arrogance ,must have been studying the book of Winston Peters,surely not.
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November 8, 2019 8:16am
- Steve Todd
  
  Totally agree, oldpark.
  
  Okay, I admit, a couple of weeks ago, I had no idea that councils can take out “election” insurance. But that only covers 50% of the costs, apparently. Why must the people of Wellington put out for the rest?
  
  This is a private action. It has nothing to do with the WCC. Mr Lester has chosen to go down this path, of his own accord. Therefore, if his application for a recount is declined, then surely he must pay the other 50% of, in that eventuality, the minimal costs incurred up to today (assuming the decision is released today).
  
  In 2010, in Dunedin, in the 11-seat Central Ward, runner-up candidate, Bev Butler, missed out on election to council by 42.98 votes – 32,820 votes cast.
  
  In the Kelleher v Jordan recount application, in 2016 (FPP), Judge Kellar said, in respect of Butler’s application (STV), “Judge Coyle concluded that an application under s 90 can proceed without notice as of right. With respect, I agree.” (See the judgment linked to, here:
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/would_lester_get_a_recount_even_if_he_applies_for_one.html.)
  
  Yes, that’s referring to the application, but still, no recount took place. I remember, at the time, that Butler was advised a recount would cost $70,000. I don’t know exactly what happened, but, it would seem the DCC did not have “election” insurance, and, in addition, told her that she was on her own. She must have withdrawn her application, accordingly.
  
  If Mr Lester manages to snatch back the mayoralty as a result of a recount, fine. The city pays his costs. But if he fails in this venture, as he surely will, one way or the other, then I cannot see why the city must pay.
  
  We await the judgment with interest.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:44am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Alternatively, after due consideration, Judge Coyle may have declined Butler’s application, which is more likely to be what happened.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:56am
- oldpark
  
  Update on Lester going for a recount . His application has been declined,great news. Wellington Ratepayers have scored a potential $100,000 if the born to rule Lie-bour/Green stooge had made the cut.
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:20am
Paginus

So this is where the normalisation of porn and sodomy has taken us.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/117057951/sex-acts-in-primary-school-investigated-by-oranga-tamariki-and-ministry-of-education
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November 8, 2019 8:18am
- dubya
  
  It’s a Catholic school, this sort of thing predates porn.
  
  17 3
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  November 8, 2019 8:52am
  - Paginus
    
    The Catholic church taught these kids to urinate in each others mouths, not the millions of porn videos?
    Ok dubya, whatever you need to justify your need to wack it to homeless runaways.
    
    8 5
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    November 8, 2019 9:21am
    - dubya
      
      ‘And on the seventh day, He sent showers of gold, and his followers consumed readily those amber nectars’
      
      – Urolagnis 3:14
      
      6 2
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      November 8, 2019 10:13am
      - Paginus
        
        What’s the point of the made up verse?
        Is it to show you’re a deviant who likes golden showers?
        
        3 5
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        November 8, 2019 10:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I regret I only have one uptick to give this comment.
        
        3 7
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        November 8, 2019 11:03am
The Proper Ghandi

What a bunch sell out Cuckservatives. National now deserve to be flushed like their comrades in the Greens and Labour. The ‘nuclear moment’ of the Socialism-in-drag policy that is ‘fighting climate change’ via the Zero Carbon Bill has just detonated in Bridges’ and his fellow stooges faces. They won’t have a clue about this fact though, such is their evident disconnect. Anything to avoid the baying, irrational mob eh fellas? Spineless weasels. Principles? What are they? Disgusting. They can’t out-Labour Labour, so what the fuck are they thinking? We are clearly a one party state now. Where is the opposition? The cancer runs deep in National, so a change of leadership won’t help them now.

It is inconceivable how cloth-eared these useless tossers are. You run a blog DPF, and allegedly are close to these clowns. You’d think you would have informed them about what the commenters (i.e. largely right-leaning voters) are saying. Looks like they’ll just bend over, grab their ankles and just go with whatever someone who is also out of touch tells them (the media? their advisors? Who the fuck knows). This, and there’ll also now be no withdrawal from the UN Migration Pact either.

Seriously, look at the Trump result, the Brexit result, and now, conversely, this betrayal. There is a common thread if you care to open your eyes – there is the mood of the majority of people, and then in stark contrast there is the out of touch political class middle-of-the-road plodders and their hangers-on, who evidently don’t know their asses from their elbows. Too comfortably ensconced in the comfy salaries and unreality of Parliamentary life is my conclusion.

Looks like ACT will need to go on a recruiting drive for all of the list MPs they are going to need. Seymour has principles, which National have exposed themselves as lacking. Seymour stood up re: gun restrictions, free speech and now the irrational religion that is climate change. I applaud you David Seymour. Never again will I vote for these National idiots.
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November 8, 2019 8:19am
- srylands
  
  I’m going to vote for ACT. I have resigned my National Party membership. However I fear that ACT will still languish at no more than 2 percent.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:58am
  - Random T Person
    
    Always vote for the party that best represents your interests. It’s called integrity…
    
    31 0
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    November 8, 2019 9:14am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Random
      Here, here! This legislation can and will fundamentally reshape the economy and bleed dry those who can least afford it.
      
      Comments yesterday asking why West Coasters dutifully vote Labour, despite all the evidence that it is against their interests, are applicable to inveterate Nat voters: when they no longer serve your interests, vote for someone who does. They have no divine right to exist. No party does.
      
      Vote on your principles, and hope others share those principles. Every vote the Nats bleed is a good thing. Destroy NZF and elevate ACT to 20% +. Give Seymour some real clout as a Kingmaker.
      
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      November 8, 2019 12:50pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Hopefully, many more do the same. For me the central hubs of my decision are the gun legislation and the Climate change crap. Act seems to be the only party that has common sense approaches to this. ( I still don’t like the Euthanasia Bill) but virtually everyone else supports it so its sort of moot.)
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:17am
    - curry4me
      
      There’s always the New Conservatives.
      
      1 0
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      November 8, 2019 7:39pm
  - Inandout
    
    sry, wait for the next poll to gauge any movement.
    
    3 0
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    November 8, 2019 9:50am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I do hope that ACT can manage to get 2 or 3 seats and not just Epsom
    
    15 1
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    November 8, 2019 9:53am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    ACT does not represnt mainstream voter thinking hence its overall popular vote languishes at about 1.2%
    
    Whether ACT represents common sense is problemnatic
    
    Its supporters here on KB certainly don’t!
    
    2 39
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    November 8, 2019 9:58am
  - greybeard
    
    Your party vote transferred from National to Act will only help to get Labour & Co back in again.
    “Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face” is good advice.
    
    8 3
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    November 8, 2019 11:46am
    - septic skeptic
      
      MMP doesn’t work like that. Unless you are relying on Epsom being a permanent one seat overhang.
      
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      November 8, 2019 12:37pm
      - greybeard
        
        In the 2017 election Act got .5% with 13,075 votes
        
        Based on the voting figures for the last election: if 100,000 voters changed their party vote from National to Act, it would still not give Act any list seats as they would still be under 5%.
        
        Therefore National would lose 100,000 party votes, Act would not benefit at all and those 100,000 votes would have been wasted.
        
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        November 8, 2019 1:57pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      I’d now rather see National impotent, NZF obliterated and ACT as kingmaker to be honest. We knew the Greens/Labour are nutters. Now National have exposed themselves as nutters in nicer suits.
      
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      November 8, 2019 12:53pm
    - reubee
      
      I suggest you study the 2002 and 2005 election results and note how many seats Progressive, United, and Act got in those elections when they won an electorate seat and got enough party votes but still less than 5%, and still received additional list seats.
      
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      November 8, 2019 3:46pm
- brett68
  
  Think you miss understand who National represents.
  It’s not farmers, conservatives or whoever, National represents National and only National.
  
  There sole objective is to get elected,every decision is made with that in mind, if they consider more votes to be had by signing up to the zero carbon bill, banning guns or voting for any other socialist policy, then they’ll vote for these policies in a heart beat.
  
  There is no voter loyalty with National, the voter is just a means to an end.
  
  Say what you want about David Seymour but at least the guy has a fucking pair and you know where you stand with him, you’ve got no idea with National because they’re only in it for themselves.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:12am
  - Happychappy
    
    No show without punch.
    
    9 0
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    November 8, 2019 9:47am
  - dave_c_
    
    The old adage – ‘If elections made any difference at all, we would not be allowed to vote’
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:48am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    elections are won in the middle. National can ignore the right as they get those votes automatically in the absence of any significant competition on the right.
    
    This is a tactical move to shift environmentalists with conservative leanings, and might be impactful in moving a couple of percent from left to right.
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:10am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Dead right UN. Bridges is playing the long game.
      
      4 1
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      November 8, 2019 1:36pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    David Seymour is there due to national isn’t he, or do you think National should get their candidate to campaign for more than the party vote next year?
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:20am
    - brett68
      
      I couldn’t give a fuck what National do.
      
      5 12
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      November 8, 2019 10:33am
    - srylands
      
      I’m not that familiar with the electorate but I had assumed that he would now have a considerable voting block regardless of what National says or does.
      
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      November 8, 2019 10:48am
  - Komata
    
    brett68@0912
    
    Re ‘…You’ve got no idea with National because they’re only in it for themselves’.
    
    Sadly, have to agree with this – I can find no formal ‘list’ or Statement of Policy on the Nat Party website; nothing that says ‘The NZ National Party believes in…’
    
    I’ve tried to raise this with my local Nat MP, but am always referred-back to their web site.
    
    So do you (or, indeed anyone) actually KNOW what the NZNP actually stands for?
    
    Thanks.
    
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    November 8, 2019 3:34pm
- Simon
  
  Ha ha ha ha National. They have been worse than useless for a very very long time. Finally some are waking up.
  
  National offer nothing to the people who work in the real world. Now National are being led by the nose by the crack pot Greens.
  
  They hope they can do some deal with the crack pots next year or something. But all that is happening is National are being led down shit tunnel.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:12am
- SGA
  
  Seymour stood up… now the irrational religion that is climate change. I applaud you David Seymour.
  
  According to their website, ACT does not see climate change as an irrational religion, rather it differs in its view of an appropriate response?
  
  ACT believes New Zealand must play its part on climate change. However, any response must be administratively simple, politically durable, and effective.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:18am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    SGA
    That’s what I mean. The ‘irrational religion’ aspect involves plunging us all back into the Dark Ages overnight. While I remain an AGW sceptic, I can live with “administratively simple, politically durable, and effective.” Sounds non-ideological and pragmatic, neither of which is to be found on the far Left.
    
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    November 8, 2019 12:33pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I despair at National’s capitulation here, and have concluded that voting National simply slows the panning left of our Overton Window.
  
  I will now be voting ACT. This is not a single issue decision for me, but rather a result of National’s :
  
  ☹ well established abandonment of liberty
  
  ☹ unwillingness to reverse the social & economic madness foisted on us by earlier governments
  
  ☹ unwillingness to stand up and be counted when UN-inspired worshiping at the altar of climate change is de rigueur.
  
  If this gives us another term or two of Labour-led wrecking then so be it. Having National at the helm will get us to the same place, only more slowly. Frogs in pots comes to mind.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:58am
  - brett68
    
    If this gives us another term or two of Labour-led wrecking then so be it. Having National at the helm will get us to the same place, only more slowly. Frogs in pots comes to mind.
    
    Agree with you on that one, a vote for National is a vote for the status quo, Bridges and Arden are interchangeable.
    
    I would prefer the “right” to sit in opposition than come in and further cement the one world government UN agenda.
    
    I just hope that part of National splits off and they form a breakaway party, as good as Seymour has been the Act brand has been utterly destroyed by the left wing media at best they’re a five percent party, that is all.
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:27am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You don’t believe ACT members had any role in destroying their own brand?
      
      2 7
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      November 8, 2019 11:05am
      - krazykiwi
        
        ACT have done fewer brand-destroying things in 20 years than Jadinda manages in an average week.
        
        The difference is that the baying, socialist media amplify and maintain the spotlight on ACT while giving Jacinda a free pass to wreck, self-promote and lie with impunity.
        
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        November 8, 2019 11:56am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Agree completely. If you vote for left wing policies wrapped in blue gift wrap you are a mug IMO. We need real leadership and long term change – not tinkering and slowing the drift towards this socialist dream.
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:56am
  - Steve James
    
    # Me too….. voting ACT for sure. Gotta get rid of the crap so called government we have now.
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:45am
- Brian McDonald
  
  To be fair they’ve out laboured, labour before. JK was a master at it – in my view, Jacinda sings from the JK song sheet when it suits.
  Traditionally in these times there is the lament for Act and vote promises in their direction – but nothing has ever followed from that, probably because Act rely on the Nats for oxygen.
  It’s all about the middle as the ‘new’ Col is slowly digesting.
  Under 12 months out 1 watch for me is likely to be Botany. JLR is not lying down in defeat and seems to be hinting that Luxon’s born again pedigree may become an issue. I don’t know why, but on the other hand there were comments earlier this week about the apparent grip on National by those of the Christian faith. We saw that a little in the debates on voluntary euthanasia.
  Some things change and some don’t but NZ politics seem to be always in the middle. Simon’s move yesterday on the new bill cemented that positioning at a time when he looks to have grown into the boots of his predecessors.
  Bill English was a visionary for National but couldn’t get the votes at the top. Who knows why, but maybe it was his faith or his relatively quiet way. Meanwhile, like it or not Simon has shown he probably wouldn’t last long in the choir which is not necessarily a bad thing for a leader in politics. He doesn’t want to be ‘anti’ everything. Good on him for tuning into middle NZ – but the leadership polls will tell us that over the next little while.
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    National may be able to do more by not being seen to be violently opposed at this stage.
    The world is turning and the next five years are likely to show if we are really looking a cold spell in the chops–which I think is highly probable.
    
    19 2
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    November 8, 2019 10:14am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Willy Jackson accuses Simon of politicking over the bill, so I assume that Labour isn’t pleased, or is Willy off the reservation? I guess that isn’t pc as a saying.
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:24am
    - sam green
      
      No Rachael – because it’s blatantly racist.
      
      1 1
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      November 8, 2019 1:30pm
      - Ruahine
        
        That’s right. Racist statements are reserved for Willie.
        
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        November 8, 2019 3:12pm
  - alloytoo
    
    The Botany Electorate want to be rid of JLR, he is a boil that needs to be lanced.
    
    16 0
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    November 8, 2019 11:40am
    - KH
      
      Only a few dazed and deluded will vote for Jamie Lee Ross
      
      1 0
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      November 8, 2019 7:27pm
- alloytoo
  
  I have voiced my displeasure to both Simon and my local MP.
  
  I would suggest everyone else do the same.
  
  (for all the good it will do)
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:14am
- Gazza the Giant
  
  Juast wait and see what happens , I am told Bridges will want 7 changes to the law , and he is going to pull the I’ve changed my mind card before the election , he is going to go to the lection to dump this law , Jackson alerted to it on Newslug this morning , wait and see what Bridges says , and wait and see what he does before the election , I note the UMR leak also has ACT on 3% , this may well be to get ACT above 5%
  
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  November 8, 2019 4:30pm
Andrei

The National party shows how useless they are by voting for Labour’s King Canute Bill thus enshringing “Zero Carbon” into law/

As if that is even possible let alone sensible!

The idea that the earth’s climatic systems are predicated by a single variable the concertration of atmospheric CO2 and that can be controlled by Acts of Parliament in a tiny little country containing 0.06% of the worlds population is frankly absurd.

And it all goes to show how out iof touch with reality our politicians including National MPs are
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November 8, 2019 8:20am
- krazykiwi
  
  It is not possible.
  
  It is not sensible.
  
  It is not principled.
  
  It is a limp, pathetic, appeasers capitulation on a scale that would have made Chamberlain blush.
  
  With the pun fully intended, National have burnt their Bridges with me.
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:04pm
  - artemisia
    
    While I have not followed the zero carbon bill closely, seems to me that National, knowing they were not going to stop the bill, took the opportunity to make their views known via amendments. That were predictably voted down.
    
    If National had declined to support the Bill they would have looked worse. Climate change deniers it would be said. Plan B shows what they would set in place when they become government again.
    
    I thought it was quite smart actually,.
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:18pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Plan B? Hilarious. Every time a Labour government has lurched us further to the Left with new taxes, big government, and the sale of our sovereignty, National is returned and eventually gets around to an occasional, half-baked token gesture.
      
      Utterly hopeless.
      
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      November 8, 2019 4:23pm
    - Kabull
      
      I agree. Does anyone really think it would have been politically sensible for the Nats to vote against the Bill – that would have been pointless and would have turned off the (no doubt) many National voters who believe in climate change. There are times when one has to recognise that continuing to fight is futile until you are in a position to pull the controlling levers. I doubt the Nats would succeed next year if they went into the election saying categorically that they will repeal the Act. Too many people have accepted the mantra that the world will end if nothing is done. Those people will not vote for a party that will put the continued existence of the planet into question [Sarc].
      
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      November 8, 2019 4:39pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I agree artemisia – they’re playing the long game. Todd Muller alludes to that during his Third Reading speech. I suspect they got Feb Farmers onside as well; the head of FF was at Parliament on Thursday.
      
      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20191107_059850000/muller-todd
      
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      November 9, 2019 9:35am
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    I pointe4d to this above , wait and see what Bridges says and does , apparently there is something going on , Nats will go to the election saying they will dump this , its to give Nats a point of difference , remembering of cause the law was always going to be voted in
    
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    November 8, 2019 4:33pm
Paulus

Having listened this morning to the Minister for Oranga Tamariki I am concerned at how often Ministers have made unfair public criticism of their Departments and the staff and decisions made in good faith.
Who would be a Public Servant today when day after day they are publically criticised for a decision they are supposed to have made – it’s their fault not mine !
Listen to Ardern yesterday stating that Immigration Officials made a decision on arranged marriages and that Lees Galloway agreed.
There is no way that any Immigration Official made such a change without the approval of their Minister.
More lies. Like the 2 minute DVD Ardern has circulated world wide to various media – full of untruths – but who cares.
Robertson blames Treasury when it suits his incompetence.
Peters yesterday publically impugning the very top people in our Public Service – he is a coward.
I would suggest that most current Ministers watch their backs as there is a limit that the senior Public Service will support them.
This attitude come right from the top of the Coalition and is corrosive.
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November 8, 2019 8:25am
- Prince
  
  The irony is the public servants in Wellington are mostly left-leaning and happily vote for their abusers.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:57am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  We really, really need some leaks from public servants – who at the moment are, by their silence, not serving the public’s interests. Or actively going against it…
  
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  November 8, 2019 11:11am
G152

We (as I keep stating) have one third of the population of Hong Kong over the entirety of NZ
They are cramped into a very small space so where is the concern for their pollution which must be considerable.????
And then we look at the other large cities in the world with their populations and pollution..
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November 8, 2019 8:25am
- MCos
  
  For a start you exaggerate the population of HK by about two times.
  However there’s plenty of other terribly polluted cities to chose from.
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:15am
- DigNap15
  
  A Singapore is the same size as Lake Taupo with about the same population as us.
  And I am sure I read that a few years ago they wanted more people there, but only good intelligent ones)
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:23am
  - MCos
    
    Aren’t you lucky you live in NZ.
    Plenty of room to swing a dead cat.
    On the other hand people come out here from Asia and other countries for that matter and are unprepared for the emptiness.
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:25pm
hullkiwi

Heard the RNZ report summing up the first four days of the Peters’ case and heard how proceedings are now moving on to the defence case.

In summary, the word used all week is “extraordinary”, and Peters wants the NZ public to be flabbergasted that civil servants told their political masters details of his pension overpayment.

Other than Soper providing his opinion on Monday, there has been no evidence as to who leaked the info and what damage it did to Peters’ reputation.

So a question, if the above is the case for the plaintiff, is there a point when the judge can call time on this charade and tell Peters and Henry to p**s off?
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November 8, 2019 8:31am
- srylands
  
  It seems that Ms Tolley told many people including her sister. That was probably unwise.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:01am
  - Yvette
    
    The details about Peters’ superannuation case appeared in media the same weekend of that National Party conference. Tolley said the details were published before she spoke to her sister about it.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:16am
  - G152
    
    Why???
    The old fool cant fill out a form that no-one else has trouble filling out.
    Claims a partner was there when they weren’t actually there..
    Worth remarking upon.
    Huka Lodge any-one
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:19am
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    That’s untrue , she told 2 people
    
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    November 8, 2019 4:35pm
- alex Masterley
  
  The best reportage on this case seems to be coming from Newsroom and “cough” Red Radio.
  Both Stuff and the Herald seem to focus on gossip/clickbait type reportage.
  Acknowledging that Newsroom has an interest in the matter, the detail in stories by both would suggest to me at least that Mr Peters case has some real issues to overcome if he is to succeed.
  First dealing with the no-surprises policy, and secondly, actually proving that some-one leaked which is a lot more than relying on Barry Sopers assumption of who the leaker was.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    When Winne runs around telling all what damage have others inflicted that he has not done to himself?
    
    Time for Winston to put on his pyjamas and retire. He is exhibiting the irrationality of some aging.
    
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    November 8, 2019 10:20am
  - oldgolfer
    
    The case a way to go yet, but from what I’ve read so far, Mr Peters’ claims may well come up short.
    And you are right about the reportage – Newsroom and RNZ.
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:07am
- Brian McDonald
  
  I think the point is being missed that the pleadings don’t claim to know the leaker 0r need to expose him or her. The point is that the ‘no surprise’ policy resulted in the leaks and the various officials are therefore responsible for the privacy breach?
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:40am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Brian, that is his point now. However, that is not where this case started 2 years ago.
    
    If, the point is the issue of no surprises, why has he still going after National Party officials as well as the former ministers?
    
    His case is as confused as his mind is. I told ztev 18 months ago that this case was all an effort to serve utu, well Peters tried and it is beginning to look like he Henry and Parker will have to swallow their own rats when this farce is over.
    
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    November 8, 2019 12:34pm
  - Chuck
    
    “The point is that the ‘no surprise’ policy resulted in the leaks”
    
    That is a guess on your part. The assumption you are making is that the leak came from the minister/s or the handful of people they sort advice from. Its been reported 40 or so people knew of Winston’s overpayment that includes MSD and State Services staff.
    
    The no surprises policy has only served to implicate the National Ministers. It cannot be proved it was the cause of the leak.
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:13pm
    - Gazza the Giant
      
      Are you suggesting that there should not have been a no surprises word ? , because people keep saying this , but this guy Peters was always going to be Dep PM either way, to me , that’s a very good reason for a word about no surprises , surely the god
      
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      November 8, 2019 4:39pm
- david
  
  IMHO this case is all about the media trying to destroy the NoSuprises Policy within Government. After all who gains the most by springing surprises on Ministers. It is the stuff that sells clicks and newspapers.
  I would guess that the media in the form of Soper’s employers are behind this and are supporting WP both in print and with funding.
  
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  November 8, 2019 1:35pm
- MCos
  
  To my way of thinking Peters is barking up the wrong tree not taking responsibility for the mistake on the application form he signed.
  However.
  To my mind the leak, regardless of the source, coming when it did, was no doubt an embarrassment to him as I’m sure that was the intention.
  
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  November 8, 2019 2:00pm
chaos

I love this story, takes me back to being a kid crossing the Auckland harbour bridge and pay the toll for the car behind you

* A woman’s generous offer at a McDonald’s drive-through started a chain reaction of customers paying for other people’s meals.

Rolleston McDonald’s shift manager Lizzie Treymane said the woman came through the drive-through about 5pm on Tuesday and insisted on paying for the meal of the motorist behind her as well.

“She said she wanted to pay for theirs too. It was a $50 order so that was pretty incredible.”

Ms Treymane said when the next vehicle came through to pay for their order and staff told the driver their food had already been paid for, they were shocked.

“We said that the customer before them had already paid for their food and they were shocked, so they wanted to pay for the order behind them too.”*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12283421
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November 8, 2019 8:31am
- kevn
  
  @chaos… I was in getting a hair trim recently. There was an old bloke in the chair ahead of me, who was obviously having a bad run. He went for a leak and I paid for his cut while he was getting sorted.
  His expression and few words made it even more special.
  
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  November 8, 2019 1:26pm
  - chaos
    
    Perfect, just little things to someone can mean so much to those they are doing it for. Thanks
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:54pm
- Straight arrow
  
  Last week I was walking down street, passed an older gentleman at bus stop. I said “good morning boss” as I passed. He replied with greeting, then as I carried on he called me back, and said it made his day that someone had acknowledged him.
  It was simple gestures on both our parts (and certainly at no cost to myself, so claiming no glory), but improved both our days.
  
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  November 8, 2019 2:16pm
  - chaos
    
    Thanks for that. You can sit and watch people form a while and most walk past each other, head down, looking at phone, but the ones that walk by and say hello to someone it changes people’s day. I think so much has been lost with that interaction that it does take people by surprise when they say hi.
    
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    November 8, 2019 4:41pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I wqnder if they are related?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10220024290658886&set=a.10208981897605961&type=3&theater

LOL
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November 8, 2019 8:42am
- Happychappy
  
  Change hands your becoming delusional.
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:52am
  - sooty
    
    And squinty eyed!
    
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    November 8, 2019 11:51am
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    He has read the UMR leak of Cindys 5th consecutive months of falling favorables , it also shows ACT at 3%
    
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    November 8, 2019 4:43pm
Manolo

Has science developed a TDS vaccine? I look forward to the day when DPF gets inoculated.

In the meantime, I suggest reading this article: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/11/the-mesmerising-mediocrity-of-trumps-opponents/
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November 8, 2019 9:11am
- curry4me
  
  If they were of mediocre quality, he’d have something to worry about. They’re rubbish, so he doesn’t.
  
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  November 8, 2019 7:51pm
JibberJabber

Seriously on the AM this morn, would anyone talk more shit than Willie Jackson?
I doubt he even believes the stuff that comes out of his own mouth.
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November 8, 2019 9:17am
- KevO'Brien
  
  His brain can’t distinguish the different sides so lack of reason is a form of normal.
  
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  November 8, 2019 10:22am
MrTips

Been waiting for something like this to happen. Catholic primary school kids get pervertedly freaky in the toilets.

Of course Archbishop Dew has his story straight (“no comment, don’t want to be culpable”) via the diocesan ~~deflector~~ spokesman.

Hey Dew, you ARE culpable you sorry sack of a Bishop. You and your mates Dunn, Cullinane and the excremental Pat Lynch ex-boss of the CEO, have all successfully stuffed the formation of young children over decades. And you are ALL very, very good at hiding things.

And what the hell are the parents of these kids doing? What kind of “Catholic” even lets it get into their primary school child’s mind that this might be “fun”?

Words fail me.
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November 8, 2019 9:38am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partners mum emails – “Signs should be erected near all Catholic churches” 🙁
  
  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EItsp_bXUAAxJRL?format=jpg&name=small
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:57am
  - All_on_Red
    
    A classic but still good
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mEHUzNWnh5M#fauxfullscreen
    
    14 1
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    November 8, 2019 10:11am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      LOL!!!
      
      10 1
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      November 8, 2019 10:30am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Might be useful at St Lukes
        
        10 1
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        November 8, 2019 12:21pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Could have been useful here!
        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4008770/Pervert-caught-kneeling-floor-peering-women-s-skirts-shopping-Walmart.html
        
        Sounds like someone we know
        
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        November 8, 2019 8:11pm
DigNap15

I’ve watched Al Jazeera a few times lately.
And they did story which showed some rivers in India and they are full of rubbish.
How anyone can be proud to be an indian is beyond me.
They are just filthy (the people and the rivers)
Clean it up!
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November 8, 2019 10:25am
- chaos
  
  I remember as a kid going into the dairy on the way home from school. Was a regular laugh for us, each go in and buy a few dollars of 1 cent lollies. Went in one day and the Indian shop keeper had her foot up on the counter playing with a scab on her foot then went to serve us. Have never gone into an Indian run shop since.
  
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  November 8, 2019 11:35am
  - kevn
    
    @chaos… Another true story of an Indian small town fruit shop owner… he used to pop all the cherries in his mouth to give them a bit more gloss.
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:21pm
    - chaos
      
      I think they do that in the catholic schools according to the news to day…..
      
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      November 8, 2019 1:52pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I have done a bit of travelling in India.
  It’s like in most countries – there are densely populated areas with all the pollution people create.
  Then there are vast areas with very few people and little pollution.
  Not all the rivers are polluted.
  Not all the people are dirty, but they live a very different lifestyle to us here.
  In NZ, if you believe all the “dirty dairying” people (which many do) , you would assert that every waterway in the rural context is polluted – which is a lie.
  I often ask people who are doing their road trips in the South Island to tell me when they come back how many genuinely polluted waterways they see (not just a bit of brown water due to excess rain).
  Havn’t had any response.
  Doesn’t stop people, who often don’t even go out of town to look, from claiming that all waterways are dirty though.
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:19pm
  - Ruahine
    
    The waterways around Auckland City are dirtier than any I have seen in the South Island.
    
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    November 8, 2019 3:02pm
MCos

I’d come out of retirement for ten million dollars.
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November 8, 2019 10:28am
- kevn
  
  @Mcos… I wonder if there is a guaranteed performance clause?
  
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  November 8, 2019 1:19pm
DigNap15

So Act got 0.05% of the vote last election
Any predictions for the next poll?
So many people are saying they are going to vote ACT.
I’d be wiling to bet that they still be around 1%.
They have got to get to 3 or 4% to have any chance.
David Seymour has no charisma, he looks like a childish schoolboy.
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November 8, 2019 10:30am
- septic skeptic
  
  I’m probably voting ACT again this time. Abstained last year, but Seymour has improved. They need a flagship policy that resonates a hell of a lot better than “pay good teachers more”!
  
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  November 8, 2019 11:06am
- lifesgood
  
  All these people throwing hissy fits over National voting for the zero carbon bill amuse me. They are the same type of people who voted Winston in “to keep National honest” What a bunch of clowns. Can’t see that National’s vote was clever strategy? They kept the greenie faction of Nats on side, the urban voters, the young etc and then they can change or negate the bill when they get back into power, hopefully next year. How well did “keeping National honest” work out?
  
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  November 8, 2019 11:45am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I heard this sort of nonsense for nine long years. JK was this brilliant strategist and all the Labour policies he introduced were part of a cunning plan to implement…wait for it…a new flag?…nothing at all?
    
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    November 8, 2019 12:43pm
- stephieboy
  
  “So many people are saying they are going to vote ACT”
  
  You mean the 0.00001% on KB?
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:03pm
  - DigNap15
    
    And the 5% on Facebook
    And the .5% on YSB
    
    5 1
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    November 8, 2019 12:48pm
    - Happychappy
      
      Have you any idea how many that will add up to Dignap 100, 1000,100,000 thousand or just the minority that dislike Simon Bridges. The amount of crap that is thrown at him by the minority of people on blogs that throw there toys out the cot because they think they know better would less than 1% of Nationals voters.
      
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      November 8, 2019 2:38pm
      - chaos
        
        I don’t like Simon, but leaders come and go, it’s the policy that matters
        
        3 0
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        November 8, 2019 4:57pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Have you seen the National Party FB page? Not scientific, but it probably reflects a general mood of disgust.
    
    7 0
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    November 8, 2019 1:27pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Yes, you have to give credit to Winston and Shane. When they sold out their voter base on the UN migration compact it was early enough into their term so that some dog-whisting over the next 12 months might rebuild the faith. (I hope not).
      
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      November 8, 2019 3:52pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  You clearly don’t live in his electorate -he is a top guy
  
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  November 8, 2019 3:32pm
- Gazza the Giant
  
  Not to fair about Seymour , I think he has shown himself to very astute of late , for the record , the leak of UMR yesterday apparently has ACT at 3% , equal with NZF and Cindys favorables down further
  
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  November 8, 2019 4:46pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    what UMR leak?
    
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    November 8, 2019 6:03pm
    - Gazza the Giant
      
      Hooten has been leaked the UMR Labour internals , his twitter says Labour wont release this , Cindys favorable down for a 5th straight month , and her numbers are as low as Clark when she was booted out off government , and Key when he realised it was time to pull the pin , to me that means she is at 35% as leader , down from 39% , not looking good , Hooten has also on FB said that ACT is sitting just about 3% the same as NZF , and before you
      say Hooten is full of it , he was leaked the same thing before the last set of polls , and he was bang on
      
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      November 9, 2019 12:08am
RW Capitalist

Speaking with a customer yesterday.
He tells me. that MPI are increasing their inspection fees by 30% to $195 per hr.
My current fees, when dealing with the govt. are $125 per hour, I am wondering when they will be going up?
When someone poo poos your ideas about increased compliance and compliance costs…quote this.
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November 8, 2019 10:55am
- kevn
  
  @RW… Bit like lefty controlled council property rates. No competition and a captive market.
  Been a bit spendy? Just pop another 5% on all rates, sorted.
  FFS
  
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  November 8, 2019 1:18pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    and the central govt. indirect tax
    Where councils are taxed on landfills, passing the cost on to rate payers.
    Fly tipping?
    
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    November 8, 2019 6:00pm
srylands

Yet another maniac.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117254080/preventative-detention-for-rapist-who-had-nickname-tattooed-on-victims-face
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November 8, 2019 11:07am
secondcumming

There always seems to be a *common denominator*. When will they ever learn…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12283468
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November 8, 2019 11:14am
- stephieboy
  
  secondcumming, you have in mind this fellow?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/116659707/karori-killer-joseph-borton-gets-life-sentence-for-peeping-tom-murder-and-sex-ordeal?rm=a
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:07pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You really are disgusting
    
    13 1
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    November 8, 2019 12:25pm
  - secondcumming
    
    WTF. Why would I have someone like that in mind stephieboy?
    He doesn’t even look Islamic.
    
    7 1
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    November 8, 2019 1:28pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Just a reminder Muslims are not the only ones committing horrendous crimes!
      
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      November 8, 2019 4:04pm
RW Capitalist

Now that I read:
The USA and China are to start dismantling trade tariffs.
What excuse will JA and Grant (the fat controller) Robertson use now, to explain why our economy is collapsing?
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November 8, 2019 12:05pm
- chaos
  
  9 long years of Helen Clark and the gfc and national still were able to do more than this joke of a government.
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:19pm
- stigie
  
  “What excuse will JA and Grant (the fat controller) Robertson use now, to explain why our economy is collapsing?”
  
  Now if you had said “Sweet Cheeks”, it would have been moderated out. Just sayin !~
  
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  November 8, 2019 1:05pm
Hugh Pavletich

AUSTRALIA …

Australia’s mall crash begins … MacroBusiness Australia

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/11/australias-mall-crash-begins/

Via The Australian:

The shopping centre industry has been rocked by the largest deal of the year, with a half stake in the $1.34bn Westfield Marion in Adelaide selling to Singapore-listed SPH REIT, in a transaction showing an 8 per cent discount to the mall’s December value.

The sale of Adelaide’s biggest centre will reverberate across the sector as the pricing may affect malls across Australia while they are under pressure from struggling department store anchors and sluggish consumer spending.

It could prompt concern of more widespread value falls across the sector, which is wrestling with a shift to turn malls into leisure destinations that offer more high-value services as e-commerce is ripping through the area.

These are highly illiquid assets so their carrying value is often bullshit. That’s why many super funds like them, they can hide cyclical price moves without marking to market. … read more via hyperlink above (behind paywall) …
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November 8, 2019 12:23pm
- peterwn
  
  A 8% ‘discount’ would be nothing out of the ordinary for a transaction of this sort.
  
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  November 8, 2019 12:55pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    We are belatedly just following American trends … where increasingly enclosed Malls (as we know them) have had their day.
    
    It is far more economic for retailers to stand alone … with greater supplies of commercial land and therefore easing prices … as is happening in Greater Christchurch.
    
    Canterbury and in particular the smaller local government areas of Waimakariri and Selwyn have the highest residential consenting rates per 1000 population per annum in the country. Work these out from the latest Stats NZ Building Consent Release. You will be surprised.
    
    A couple of mid – year media reports dealing with the exodus from the enclosed Malls … …
    
    Kmart latest to announce plans as big stores turn backs on Christchurch malls | Stuff.co.nz
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112375143/kmart-latest-to-announce-plans-as-big-stores-turn-backs-on-christchurch-malls?rm=m
    
    Christchurch’s new central city (stand – alone) New World supermarket opens | Stuff.co.nz
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112545770/christchurchs-new-central-city-new-world-supermarket-opens
    
    Watch this trend accelerate when the new Southern and Northern motorways come on stream early next year.
    
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    November 8, 2019 1:52pm
Straight arrow

Remembrance Day is approaching.
Let me talk about poppies: red, white, purple, rainbow, black, hijab. Some only available (hopefully) overseas.

Traditional Red: Wearing a poppy was inspired by the fields of poppies that grew where many of the battles were fought. Red also connected to blood that was spilt. Funds go to official veteran charities (in each country). Does NOT glorify war.

Purple: The purple poppy symbolises all animals who have died during conflict.  It is estimated that more than 8 million animals sacrificed their lives in World War I alone. Sanctioned by NZ National Army Museum. Not sure where funds go to. Celebrated 24th of February in NZ.

White: Some people feel that the red poppy glorifies war and conflict. Instead they might choose to wear a white poppy. Not sanctioned. Funds do NOT go to support veterans.

Black: commonly associated with the commemoration of black, African and Caribbean communities’ contribution to the war effort – as servicemen and servicewomen, and as civilians. Not sanctioned. Funds to a private organisation.

Rainbow: Obvious. Not only not sanctioned, but
The Royal Canadian Legion official position is that altering the poppy is a sign of disrespect: “The poppy is the sacred symbol of remembrance and should not be defaced in any way.” Funds do NOT go to veterans. Canadian schoolgirl suspended for proposing that LGBT was wrong to use this day for identity politics. Stonewall Collegiate teachers had “encouraged” kids to wear rainbow, although not mandated. Also veterans in UK upset with rainbow “poppies”.

Poppy Hijab (UK): The hijab aims to celebrate the contribution of Muslims in the UK, with all the money raised from the headscarves going to the UK Poppy Appeal.

Will some identity group want specially designed poppies this year?
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November 8, 2019 12:46pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I usually try to get a white and a red poppy for Poppy Day/Anzac Day.
  We don’t have such a strong tradition for Remembrance Day. there has walys been a service at St Paul’s cathedral in Wellington on the Sunday, but other commemorations on the 11th have become more common in recent years, particularly with the 100th anniversary of the armistice last year.
  
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  November 8, 2019 2:49pm
  - Jack5
    
    Is the white poppy more than a symbol of pacifism?
    
    It would have taken guts to be a conscientious objector in World War 1 or World War 2, but just as much courage to be a volunteer pacifist ambulance driver in the various war zones. Isn’t that how the American Field Service originated?
    
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    November 8, 2019 4:29pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Yup I want a specifically Catholic one. I am quite sure a few posters here could suggest what it should entail…..
  
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  November 8, 2019 6:00pm
Maggie Pie

Like everyone else, I have of course been closely following the very graphic news reports about the dreadful Grace Mullane murder case.
According to the Herald, forensic DNA tests performed on blood found on the accused’s fridge door, “was 500,000 million times more likely to have come from Grace, than any other woman”

So would that be like saying a ‘brazillion’?

Asking for a friend.
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November 8, 2019 12:54pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  With respect Maggie, the Millane murder really isn’t a joking matter, especially for her family.
  
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  November 8, 2019 1:58pm
- Jack5
  
  The accepted term for a thousand million in English is now a billion. Britain adopted this American definition in the 1970s (and NZ followed). So Maggie Pie’s number would be 500 billion.
  
  Other terms:
  
  Trillion – a million millions.
  Quadrillion – a thousand trillions
  Sextillion – a million trillions
  Septillion – a billion trillions
  Octillion – a trillion trillions
  Nontillion – a thousand otctillions
  Stephie-illion – an uncountable amount of garbage.
  Googol – one followed by a hundred zeroes; alternatively one afternoon’s Stephie X observations at the local mall.
  
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  November 8, 2019 2:24pm
JibberJabber

Jeepers, they need to shut down all those Lake Road, Minnehaha Ave and Beach Road Dairy farms…

http://emergencyvet.co.nz/blog-post/11815/
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November 8, 2019 1:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Anyone get any idea as to why the accused in the Grace Millane case got name suppression and Venod Skantha didn’t?
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November 8, 2019 1:45pm
- JibberJabber
  
  An up and coming sportsperson apparently.
  
  3 1
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  November 8, 2019 2:23pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Probably more likely that he had previous convictions for sinister behaviour and the jury weren’t allowed to know what an awful prick he is.
    Has to go on trial like he’s a lily-white citizen.
    
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    November 8, 2019 9:05pm
    - kiwiracer
      
      Wondered that as well, also he had returned from Australia, read between the lines????
      
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      November 9, 2019 6:53am
- cut n paster
  
  The “Grace Millane” Accused – Mr X
  
  He had a current and active Tinder account, so therefore was obviously very well connected.
  
  The Indian doctor – Perhaps his lawyer f****n Hates him too.
  
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  November 8, 2019 4:11pm
Tony Stuart

This extract from Bridges’ Third Reading speech yesterday is interesting on several levels (my emphasis added):

I want acknowledge Todd Muller and Scott Simpson for the leadership they’ve shown and the hard work that they have shown in being across the many details that go into climate change policy. I also want to acknowledge James Shaw. The talks have been on and off, but he listened and we compromised at significant points along the way. This bill is a product, and it’s not so much as I wanted, but it is a product of compromise, and compromise shouldn’t be a dirty word in politics. National will support this bill.

The reality is that there are parts of this bill I disagree with—that I strongly disagree with. We sought amendments in this House last night, and we weren’t successful. In summary, they’re around our principles and ensuring our economy, our food production, and everyday New Zealanders aren’t punished as we make change. New Zealand feeds the world. We produce more food per person than any other OECD nation bar none. That means emissions per capita, yes, they’re high in this country, but we are also the most efficient food producers in the world. The world needs to be fed, and we know how to do it better, more efficiently, more productively than anyone. National is proud of our farmers and the way that they keep improving. They have over the last 30 years, and I know they will over the next thirty. We get it.

I have to say New Zealand First does not. They can’t say, over the last two years, that they stand on the side of regional and rural New Zealand. They blocked our amendments last night to this bill out of ignorance and petty partisan politics. But a National Government that I lead will make all those amendments in our first 100 days in office.

In the interest of time, I’m not going to go fully through those seven amendments we will make. The first is that we’ll make sure the target for methane reduction will be recommended by the independent Climate Change Commission instead of politicians. I want to say I listened carefully to what Minister Shaw said yesterday—I think it was afternoon. This law, in fact, allows him to write to the commission for review of that target. We say in the National Party, in the interests of New Zealand, that 24 to 47 percent is simply too high. It will punish everyday New Zealanders on farms and, more broadly, around this country. We ask that he does that in coming days: he writes to the commission.

I also want to finish with a wider point. To those in Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin, this isn’t all up to our farmers. They keep improving, as I said, the last 30 years, and I have absolutely no doubt they will keep up with that over the next 30 years to stay the best in the game. They get it. But, no—we all need to play our role: townies, city folk Gen Y, Gen X, and the boomers. I am proud of National’s pragmatic, sensible solutions-oriented approach to climate change. I’m proud of our record in office. I’m proud of our bipartisan approach on the framework and this bill, and I pledge to improve this law swiftly when we are in Government.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20191107_054450000/bridges-simon

Bridges’ reference to NZ First is very interesting. Although it supported the final reading of the Bill, National tried to pass a number of amendments on Wednesday night during the Committee Stage, which would have blunted the effect of the Bill. NZF joined Labour and the Greens to vote those amendments down.

So Winston Peters can’t go to rural New Zealand next year, and appeal for their support against a poor piece of legislation, whereas Bridges has promised that National will amend the legislation within 100 days of coming into office. Bridges and National have essentially painted NZF into a corner, and that’s smart long-game politics.

On The Country this afternoon, they interviewed Katie Milne, President of Federated Farmers, which is often referred to as the tractor-driving branch of the National Party. Ms Milne was at Parliament yesterday, and she understands why National voted the way it did. I suspect that National’s vote was not decided in isolation.

Bridges also refers to compromise, and that’s the reality of MMP. Since 1996, no party has had an outright mandate to implement its agenda, and has had to rely on backroom deals involving compromise. We may not like it, but that’s the way it is.

Voting against this Bill at Third Reading yesterday would have been easy. But I believe the National caucus’ decision to support it, with the promise of changes when elected is National playing the long game, isolating NZF, and positioning themselves as a government in waiting. Every National MP will have known the risk in that strategy, but I strongly believe it will produce long-term benefits, and enhances the chances of National being reelected next year.
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November 8, 2019 1:56pm
- chaos
  
  National could of easily voted against this bill, but that would of seen next year labour, greens and Winston First all campaigning that national is against the climate, and I think we will have voters next year that are voting on climate change for their kids, to sit this one out could of done more damage than to support it.
  
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  November 8, 2019 2:10pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Precisely chaos, which is why I refer to Bridges and National playing the long game.
    
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    November 8, 2019 2:18pm
- Inandout
  
  Tony, they won’t change the bill in the first 100 days, they have lost a lot of support which will be almost impossible to fully reclaim. Most voters don’t look at ‘the long game’ either and will simply opt for another Party more to the Right.
  
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  November 8, 2019 4:26pm
  - Colville
    
    another party more to the right? who??
    
    MMP is NZ is simple…you either want the Greens in or you dont.
    
    4 0
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    November 8, 2019 7:45pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Well they’ve lost me.
  
  Election after election we expect National to unpack and reverse this type of nonsense.
  
  And what happens?
  
  Tinkering.
  
  Apologist’s platitudes entered into our statutes with a flourish.
  
  National are gently braking the relentless slide to the Left, rather than steering us to the Right.
  
  The jig is up, National.
  
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  November 8, 2019 5:49pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Why are they so blind to the sceptic’s view that is gaining more traction. I am not saying they have to dismiss the alarmist view, but get educated as to what both sides are claiming. The debate among physicists on exactly how the atmosphere is heated is far from over, there are aspects of this debate that go way above mere mortals heads, but the pursuit of scientific truth needs these debates and as a potential government need good advice. Until they look like they are doing a better job on this I will be voting Act.
  
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  November 8, 2019 5:54pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Since our politicians have committed us to a Zero-Carbon future, it behoves each & every one of us to see that our politicians lead by example and walk the talk.

So, no long-distance flights for Ministers and Prime-Ministers when we have Ambassadors and Foreign Affairs staff already overseas who can deal with personal encounters.

No need for Ministerial cars around town when walking and public buses can suffice.

No meat or fish on Bellamy’s menu.

Vegetarian Hangi only for public gatherings on Marae.

I’ll think of a few others as the days roll on.
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November 8, 2019 2:11pm
- alex Masterley
  
  No cell phones,
  No computers,
  No clothes made from man made fabric.
  No hothouse produced vegetables.
  The list goes on and on.
  
  7 0
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  November 8, 2019 2:51pm
- Straight arrow
  
  Ministry for the Environment figures indicate that per capita income will reduce by 60% if NZ targets zero carbon by 2050. National income reduces by 6%, and population growth of last years 1.6% extrapolated.
  
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  November 8, 2019 3:08pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, it is not without reason that it will be called The Zero Growth Bill.
  
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  November 8, 2019 4:28pm
Jack5

The political PR mills have been telling us the NZ angle on the extended free trade agreement with China, but to know about what China’s getting out of it, have a look at the link below.

Basically, it’s making it easier for China’s companies to set up business in NZ.

https://croakingcassandra.com/2019/11/08/unserious-defenders-of-nz-national-interests/
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November 8, 2019 2:11pm
Jack5

Joke in the Telegraph today, by columnist Judith Woods:

What’s the difference between a kebab shop and a clitoris? Men have no problem finding a kebab shop. Even when they’re drunk.
12 1
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November 8, 2019 4:18pm
- Inandout
  
  Jack5, a workmate used to talk of ‘the little man in the boat’.
  
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  November 8, 2019 8:18pm
chaos

* Footage of walruses driven to suicide by climate change broke the world’s heart last year, only for the story to be quietly revised. But if media lied about walrus suicides, what else are they lying about?

Renowned nature documentarian David Attenborough probably converted a few climate skeptics with his heartrending footage of walruses, their habitat decimated by climate change, throwing themselves off cliffs in despair in the 2018 Netflix documentary Our Planet.*

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/472795-walrus-suicide-climate-change-lies/
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November 8, 2019 4:22pm
Wired-one

New Zealand contribute 0.17% to global emissions and now we have signed up to be carbon zero by 2050. Can anyone please tell me what difference our economic sabotage will achieve if India, the U.S and China continue on as they currently are? What difference will our token gestures make?
9 1
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November 8, 2019 4:25pm
- niggly
  
  Our token gestures will make absolutely zero difference in a practical sense.
  
  But on an PR, “look at moi”, feelz good scale, our gestures will go off the scale to ensure our very own Princess (and the likes of Jimmy Shaw and co) will travel first-class around the world continuously attending Very Important People conferences and other such talk-fests, and get to lecture us, and of course receive MSM and TV celebrity adulation. So in summary the COL wants more and more gestures, and yet more gestures, no matter how hollow they are as it’s all for the cause, comrades! 🙁
  
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  November 8, 2019 5:18pm
chaos

This is a disturbing trend of releasing criminals that should be deported, putting people at risk because of their stupid stance

* In what appears to be a growing national trend, another elected law enforcement official released an illegal immigrant with a serious criminal conviction—in this case child sex offenses—rather than turn him over to federal authorities for removal. Sanctuary policies ban local law enforcement from honoring Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detainers placed on illegal aliens who have been arrested on local criminal charges. If the detainer is honored ICE takes custody and deports the criminal rather than release him or her back into the community. When law enforcement agencies fail to honor immigration detainers and free serious criminal offenders, it undermines the federal government’s duty to protect public safety.*

https://www.judicialwatch.org/corruption-chronicles/sheriff-who-frees-illegal-alien-convicted-of-child-sex-crimes-says-enforcing-immigration-law-not-part-of-his-duties/
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November 8, 2019 4:26pm
Swifty

Got a lot of time for Cambodians but, sorry, OUUUUUUUT!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117262059/man-facing-deportation-after-he-allegedly-married-his-sister-in-bid-to-get-a-visa

We must never reward (repeated) liars with residence. Ever.
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November 8, 2019 4:56pm
igm

Fairfax just cannot leave anyone alone (white and decent) if they make a few dollars, especially if they are involved in Rugby.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/117273655/steve-hansens-wanaka-holiday-home-sells-for-27m
Pity Steve did not panel and paint the vile little germ that insulted his team in Japan . . . . these journalist scum are worth nothing better.
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November 8, 2019 5:21pm
- chaos
  
  Nothing wrong with the article and no different to articles they run of other celebrities that sell their homes
  
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  November 8, 2019 5:30pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Looked all through Stuff today and this was all you could find to moan about?
  
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  November 8, 2019 5:35pm
- sooty
  
  Envy on the case of the hack!
  
  1 1
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  November 8, 2019 5:49pm
rightoverlabour

Bloody hot again today, but take a look here! Now can’t let a few facts get in the way of the Global Warming Religious Crusade…

https://electroverse.net/new-zealand-last-two-months-cooler-than-average-coldest-october-in-7-years/

And as for the NH, glad I am not any where near that part of the world….

https://electroverse.net/
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November 8, 2019 6:13pm
chaos

It actually does make you think because I am sure anyone here who has any interaction with young labour know how nasty and dirty they are.

* Supporters of embattled former Christchurch City councillor Deon Swiggs have accused the campaign team of his political rival Jake McLellan of “orchestrating a campaign of allegations and innuendo” against him during the local election.

Swiggs was ousted from his Central ward seat weeks after allegations emerged that he had sent “grossly inappropriate” messages to youngsters – claims he denies.”………

– “Strong circumstantial evidence” to suggest the “orchestration of a campaign of allegations and innuendo” against Swiggs by Jake McLellan’s campaign team and their supporters in Young Labour, the Christchurch Youth Council and CYWC……

McLellan represents People’s Choice/Labour. His mother, Tracey McLellan, is Labour’s senior vice president and has put her name forward to become the party’s candidate in the Port Hills electorate for next year’s general election.

The petition comes as the council revealed it will not hold a full investigation into the allegations after deciding to drop a code of conduct complaints process because Swiggs is no longer a councillor.*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/117250418/supporters-of-christchurch-councillor-ousted-after-misconduct-claims-seeking-appeal
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November 8, 2019 8:21pm
sooty

Just watched an hour of funny builders on tv with unfunny comedians comentating on it
Guy Williams would get a job on that cos he’s shit!
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November 8, 2019 8:52pm
John Warren

Can somebody please explain for me, in simple terms, what the Whanau Ora Commissioning Agency does, and is Ms Tait just head down in another public money trough?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018721379/shut-it-down-a-call-to-close-oranga-tamariki
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November 8, 2019 9:16pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They are like other agencies… Salvation Army, Presbyterian Social Services, Barnados… that have linked into accessing and providing health & social services.
  
  They follow Tariana Turia’s model of delivering holistic health services for Maori.
  https://whanauora.nz/what-we-do/people/
  
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  November 8, 2019 9:31pm
  - John Warren
    
    Thanks Maggie – but it was the role of this slightly mysterious “Commissioning Agency” that I was wondering about. Is it essentially a cream-raking middle-man?
    
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    November 9, 2019 8:28am
    - artemisia
      
      A very long and recent report on Whanau Ora and commissioning agencies at the below link – 140 pages, 6 months in the making. Anyone surprised at the outcome? (Hint – more money.)
      
      https://www.tpk.govt.nz/docs/tpk-wo-review-2019.pdf
      
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      November 9, 2019 9:28am

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