General Debate 16 February 2020

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Captain Mainwaring

Coronavirus threatens to inflict significant damage to our economy, the sort of thing that a responsible government would have had a ‘rainy day’ fund for.
Remember when we had a government that got us through the recession that the Clark/Cullen shower got us into, then the GFC, then the Christchurch and Kaikoura earthquakes while increasing welfare payments and continuing to grow the economy. AND, they built up strong and ongoing surpluses for the inevitable ‘rainy day’.
Well, the ‘rainy day’ is almost upon us and not only has the financial genius Robbo spent all the money but he’s gone and borrowed more.
We are truly in the shit, and September 19 may well be too late to get us out of it.
A pox on all the dopey voters who caused this to happen. You know who you are.
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February 16, 2020 8:00am
- mjw
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Actually, the previous National Government had eight years of deficits. It is Labour governments that run surpluses.
  
  Also, Labour has been building up rainy days funds with the Cullen fun. National stopped contributing, and so missed out on the benefits of a huge share boom, thereby undermining NZ’s position.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Cullen Fund is not spendable.
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:14am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’ve forgotten the legacy Cullen left New Zealand when Labour was voted out in 2008 mjw; the decade of deficits, and New Zealand going into recession before the rest of the world.
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/10/prefu_ten_years_of_deficits.html
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:16am
    - igm
      
      ACC was in the shit for millions, Cullen bought railways at a ridiculously high price, plus gave Toll many conditions and deals we still have not heard about . . . he was, as are all Labourites, a fiscally illiterate and envious person.
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:57am
      - Aunty
        
        That’s right! As one of the senior executives at Toll was reported to have said at the time, you only get one Micheal Cullen coming along in a career!
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:42am
      - Paulus
        
        Told Toll in Melbourne have a Cullen Party with good champagne every year to celebrate their luck.
        
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        February 16, 2020 12:34pm
  - G152
    
    And there I was thinking that the left were keeping their heads down because of the lack of housing and trees that were promised by this coming election.
    But no….
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:29am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    I know you have been taught that line. What National inherited in 2008 was a nightmare. Some of it was not the fault of the outgoing government but much of it was. The previous government had structurally increased spending. In the last term of the Labour government, public consumption increased by 50 percent. That is not investment in roads and hospitals. It is public service salaries, subsidies, travel, etc. The Reserve Bank increased interest rates, and the country went into into recession before the GFC. Then the GFC knocked the lights out of revenue. And we have not even got to the earthquakes.
    
    The Government got through all that without austerity measures which was a deliberate choice. If they had chosen austerity I doubt you would have cheered them on.
    
    Your comment is ignorant. I mean that literally. For those of us who worked day and night to get through those dark days, it is insulting. What were you up to in 2009? You clearly did not read this at the time.
    https://treasury.govt.nz/publications/efu/budget-economic-and-fiscal-update-2009-html
    
    It is not too late. You could read it and report back.
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:29am
    - mjw
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Forecasts are not outcomes. For example, we just had a forecast deficit that turned into an actual surplus this year.
      
      I am trying to avoid evaluations, or emotive languages, and am sticking to facts.
      
      Here is another one. The last National government promised surpluses and delivered deficits. That is a simple fact.
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:09am
      - double d
        
        Idiot
        So National forecasting surpluses is a promise and we ignore the realities of GFC/ earthquakes etc.
        I just shake my head at the intentional ignoring of facts you have done
        You don’t deal in facts. You write weasel words and interpret them so you tribe is painted in a good light
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:13am
      - Sydney Alvarado
        
        Well with that reasoning I forecast that you work in a fish and chip shop. Or the Labour Party. Bacause you would never get a job that requires critical analysis.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:20am
      - Liberty
        
        According to your mythical claim.
        Labour came to power with an economy in deficit.
        Now for two year COL has spent as if there is no tomorrow.
        On its vanity projects. Which have failed.
        Eight months out from an election. Now out of cash and soon to be out of friends in Parliament. (sucking of a poison chalice was always doomed to fail)
        COL Have borrowed billions to spend in electorates in a vain hope the cash will produce COL list votes.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:34am
      - Liberty
        
        Sydney
        You are correct.
        But one problem with that analogy
        One of the countries largest and most successful companies.
        Started as a fish and chip shop.
        There has also been failures
        Such as Dear Leader.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:51am
      - mjw
        
        So I find it interesting that when I present some facts, I get responded to with speculative abuse.
        
        If you are one of those who are lashing out at me, please please have a think about how you got to that point – the point of just abusing opponents rather than thinking of them as another human being, trying to do their best.
        
        I’m not asking you to agree with me. But I am asking you to engage with the idea that things may not so simple, so good/bad so black or white. And maybe make ad hominen attacks a last resort, instead of a first resort.
        
        Offered with sincerity …
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:02pm
      - Liberty
        
        mjw
        
        “when I present some facts”
        
        Are you Winston? Because it sounds like one of his crap statements.
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:35pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, mjw, this is Kiwiblog, so I’m not sure what sort of reasoned debate you might expect.
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:37pm
      - mjw
        
        Ooops, sorry Liberty, was trying hit reply but accidentally hit report as reply nesting doesn’t go down that far. Wasn’t intending to hit report
        
        Anyway, all I was going to say was …
        
        Quod Erat Demonstrandum
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:53pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Audrey Young on Budget 2008:
      
      The cupboard is almost bare and that is the way Michael Cullen planned the 2008 Budget.
      
      He has delivered a Budget that offers a little of something for almost everyone but his biggest gift is to National – an election-year headache.
      
      There is so little cash left to play with, $1.75 billion, that National will have little headroom to make attractive tax promises without saying what funding commitments Labour has made it will scrap.
      
      That is what Michael Cullen promised and that is what he has delivered. The $1.75 billion isn’t real either because $750 million of it was earmarked for health long ago.
      
      Phil Goff’s revealing comments this week showed that Labour is into legacy politics and this is a legacy Budget – a legacy to National. It will make it harder for National to win and if it does win, it will make it harder to govern.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10511832
      
      Cullen knew Labour was on the way out, so he spent everything in order to leave National nothing to play with. Remember Kiwirail, and the hundreds of millions gifted to Toll Holdings by the government buyback? One Toll executive is reputed to have said “You only get one Helen Clark in your lifetime!”, such was the foolhardy nature of the transaction.
      
      History will record that the government changed, the GFC plunged New Zealand into recession ahead of most OECD countries (we also came out of recession sooner than most, thanks to Bill English), and then there was the small matter of rebuilding Canterbury, at a cost north of $25 billion to date.
      
      That Bill English even got the economy back into surplus against that background is remarkable. Now, presented with forecast surpluses as far as the eye could see in 2017, Robertson is likely to take us into deficit again this year. Thanks for bloody nothing Labour!
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:12am
  - kevn
    
    @mjw.. Satire post.
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:32am
  - Swifty
    
    A surplus you say?
    
    Please list the initiatives Labour has begun in the last two years to 1. lift our national income and tell us what effect this has had and 2. cut spending in any area and the effect this has had.
    
    In the absence of any response – Labour have done nothing except inherit both a good economy and healthy set of books from National – and crowing about it as if it was their doing, as Cindy did this week on social media.
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:35am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      Quite right. The cost of bad policy is cumulative and it takes years for the consequences to show. Take two examples.
      
      The cost to the government of the tertiary education “fees free” policy will be somewhere between 20 and 30 billion dollars over the next decade. And it will have zero effect on education achievement. Zero.
      
      Now the gas exploration ban. By 2040 or sooner New Zealand will be importing gas from Australia. Because despite the dreams of the Greens, New Zealand will be consuming more natural gas in 2040 than it does today.
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:05am
      - mjw
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        And what is the cost of de-regulation?
        
        Look at the leaky home fiasco, for example, or the cost of pollution and on and on.
        
        Both left and right can bear blame in these areas. But if we try to blame one side, but not other, we will never solve the problem.
        
        That is of course, what some big multinationals want – blame the left! Then we can get away with all sorts of profit maximising externality creating horrors. I grant the same is true on the other side of politics. Blame the right! Then we can get away with all sorts of zero-sum reallocations to others.
        
        Unfortunately, it is terribly hard to look beyond this battle between left and right to a dispassionate view of economics any more.
        
        And that of course, is just the way the vested interests want it. Let’s have a battle between left and right. Let’s have a battle between jews and muslims. Let’s have a battle between pro and anti abortion/life. Let’s have a battle between blue charioteers and green charioteers. Then the population will be too busy to object to what we are doing behind the scenes.
        
        However, the externalities are staring to come home to roost. And I suspect that is going to lead to some massive shakeups.
        
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        February 16, 2020 9:58am
      - DeepBlue
        
        National policy should be to scrap free fees.
        
        And come up with some amnesty on part of student loan penalties (not interest) for overseas students returning to NZ in next three years.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:30am
      - Pharmachick
        
        @mjw
        
        actually I think this is one of your better arguments. Sorry the “tribal” KBers are down ticking you like you’re Hugh Pavletich in a real estate bull market [in-joke warning] or stephie anything.
        
        Its true that neither left nor right has had a full handle on the economic cycles – but that is also due to NZ being a partially managed economy… If it is completely free market then its open to the ebbs and flows of trade (and please! nobody tell me the USA is totally free market, their subsidies for e.g. farmers are massive), and yet the US is closer and so the GFC hit hard and fast. In NZ careful management can somewhat mitigate the low ebbs, but it also denies NZers the high highs… that’s an argument for somebody else, better versed in economics than me. The problem is that the “managers” (i.e. Treasury bench, reserve Bank governor) need to force this in some way to manage ahead of time. So, unless you’re Warren Buffet – few can do this, the prediction algorithms are far from good. Also the rather unsavory behavior from certain reserve governors in the news lately – errr… it makes me wonder “who are our fiscal leaders and how excellent are they?”. Quite frankly, yelling at people in airport lounges is beneath the office. But I guess that’s what NZ has right now…
        
        Finally (2A) as to repeal the free uni fees for one year: YES.
        
        (2B) Amnesty for international non-payers… my opinion on that is to combine sex with travel. Blah Blah Blah they were only 18 or 19 or 20 ro whatever… That loan allowed all of us to get through Uni and end up where we are. Repaying it is not only necessary from a legal standpoint, its morally and ethically critical.
        
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        February 16, 2020 5:19pm
  - burt
    
    mjw
    
    Perhaps you could name the last Labour PM to be voted out when the country wasn’t in recession?
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:40am
    - Colville
      
      burt.
      Out of interest how far back do you need to go to find one?
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:13am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        burt’s memory goes back to the 1970s and 80s, when the country was tyrannised by unionists like Ernie Abbott.
        
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        February 16, 2020 9:30am
      - burt
        
        Some might say Nash (1960) but it seems it was probably Fraser (1949)
        
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        February 16, 2020 9:31am
      - burt
        
        As mikenmild is unable to argue the facts he goes for personal attacks.
        
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        February 16, 2020 9:38am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, burt, we’ve been over your point several time over the years. It’s not my fault that you are unable to explain any correlations, or account for other recessions that occurred during the National Party’s terms in office.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:54am
      - sooty
        
        Like a good little troll!
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:56am
      - burt
        
        Well mikenmild, I’ve asked you many times to name the last Labour PM voted out when the country was not in recession but you never answer. You go on about causality and correlation then lie about my position on Ernie Abbott, but never answer the question. Why is that?
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:22pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    This just goes to show how little you know MJW.
    
    Debt, in itself, is not a bad thing, providing you retain the ability to service that debt. This is why you get a mortgage to buy a house.
    
    The GFC, as bad as it was, put us in a unique opportunity. The cost of borrowing was at an all time low, and the government projects at the time, along with asset sales helped us to weather the financial storm.
    
    The corresponding growth in GDP per capita over that time marked us as an economy to watch. Remember, we never got above 25% debt to GDP. Compare that with the US, which is at 115%, or Japan, at over 200%.
    
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    February 16, 2020 10:06am
    - Jack5
      
      Slightlyrighty ignores NZ’s non-public debt.
      
      According to Wikipedia:
      
      At 31 March 2018, NZ external debt ranked 39th among nations and, at $US40,300 a head, was rated 100 per cent of GDP.
      
      In international net investment position NZ ranked about 50th internationally, with the net deficit 64.7 per cent of GDP. This deficit as a proportion of GDP was seventh worst in the countries listed and compared with 46.5 per cent for the United States.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
      
      and
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_international_investment_position
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:35pm
- Jack5
  
  The “books” were spiced up with revaluation of assets – in this case NZ Rail. It’s like the Brierley-type raiders in the Wild West days on the NZ Stock Exchange.
  
  Sadly, I expect were are about to rediscover we are a small, export-dependent country, and that the “rock-star economy” bullshit was only a con – a mirage from GDP rise only because of high population growth.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:21am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Our GDP per capita also rose by nearly 30% So basing our GDP rise simply on population is a bit disingenuous.
    
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    February 16, 2020 10:07am
    - Jack5
      
      Can you please elaborate on that SlightyRighty?
      
      Our GDP per capita rose 30 per cent? Over how many years, and which years?
      
      According to Trading Economics, GDP per capita rose 13 per cent over eight years from 2010 to 2018. Our GDP per capita
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:24am
      - Jack5
        
        Too late to add under the edit function….
        
        According to the CIA World Factbook, NZ’s GDP per capita is 48th in the world, compared with Australia at 29th, and Britain at 39th.
        
        If you can find where Stats NZ hides GDP per capita on its web site, that would help debate.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:32am
      - slightlyrighty
        
        https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2016&locations=NZ&start=2008
        
        The world Bank shows a rise in GDP per capita from 2008 to 2014 from 32k USD to 44K USD.
        
        Thanks for clarifying that even you acknowledge GDP per capita grew. If GDP growth was only due to population, then per capita would stay static or reduce.
        
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        February 16, 2020 12:23pm
      - Jack5
        
        Slightlyrighty does not say that the Word Bank figures he refers to indicate that NZ’s GDP per capita was $US44,533 in 2014 and in 2016 (the link’s most recent figures) was LOWER at $US40,026.
        
        New Zealand’s big immigration surge was occurring over this period. It is happening because some sectors, such as education, are in effect selling citizenship.
        
        Emphasis on GDP per capita is to be welcomed. The difference in the effect from pure is GDP is illustrated by India’s. (CIA World Factbook figures) for India 2017:
        
        India GDP third in the world.
        India GDP per capita 156th in the world.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The telling statistic would be GDP per capita in comparison with other developed economies. Alas, the story there is one of steady relative decline since the 1960s, uninterrupted by any ‘reforms’, no matter how laudable they might have appeared at the time, or mythologised afterwards.
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:56am
      - Tall Man
        
        A good point mikey you are right.
        
        Welfare is the primary issue here and while that is liberally applied and available we have little hope of increasing our productivity and “rea;” gdp.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:04pm
    - Tall Man
      
      You need to factor in inflation I think.
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:01pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It takes a competent administration to manage NZ–sadly lacking at present.
  Government is about executive power and use not social group identity.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:40am
- igm
  
  How much and where has money come from to put rent defaulters, property abusers, drug dealers, child producers for income, and gang affiliates into new housing and existing houses to continue their bludge off taxpayers.
  Has the money been borrowed from ME, China, or maybe Russia; at what interest rate, and what security and conditions have been entered into?
  We deserve answers!
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Reserve bank obliges on Robbo’s request–can’t come up with the foreign exchange though required to service the demand, that depends on exports.
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:15pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Captain Bro – there are still 42% of Sheeple who strongly believe Jacinda is nice. So there is no way out of this. They cannot be convinced otherwise. Move on.
  
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  February 16, 2020 10:40am
Jack5

The police say the Tauranga shootings are “unrelated to gang conflict”, but they also are reported as saying some of those involved were gang members.

Looks as though the police are downplaying the gang threat. That means they want the focus kept on the drastic firearms-law reforms that affect only the law abiding (gang members don’t have, and supposedly cannot get firearms licences).

Put this together with propaganda from reformed criminals now social science academics, and we have a drive to legitimise gangs.

Law and order is a gift issue for National in election year. It shouldn’t be hard to keep the spotlight on it.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12308875
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February 16, 2020 8:10am
- MCos
  
  I would suggest the police the police know a lot more about the background to these homicides and how they relate to gang conflict than we do.
  “Police yesterday seemed to confirm the McLaren Falls homicides were not a direct result of the tit-for-tat gun violence in Tauranga that has plagued the city over the past year, with the incursion of Australian gangs.”
  I’m guessing there’s only one reason Australian gangs are setting up over here and that is drugs, which they import and sell to the local gangs.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:37am
  - Tall Man
    
    The key asset is the port.
    
    Whoever controls that controls the drug trade.
    
    The ex Aussie gang members are aware of that and the local gangs took “ownership” from granted.
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:56pm
- SGA
  
  The police say the Tauranga shootings are “unrelated to gang conflict”, but they also are reported as saying some of those involved were gang members.
  
  It’s possible for both to be true, Jack5. Not saying it is, but it’s possible. It could be a falling out of people within a gang, or some strange “domestic” or relationship issue (one of victims is a woman). I’ll keep an open mind for the time being.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:41am
  - cmm
    
    Yes you have a point that, say, a fight between two members of the same gang, or domestic violence, would not really be “gang conflict”.
    
    However, it all happens within a gang “cultural environment” where violence and criminality is the way to conduct life.
    
    Clean up the gangs and a lot of the other violent offending will get cleaned up too.
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:53am
    - MCos
      
      “Clean up the gangs”
      
      Opposition politicians of all parties have been saying that for fifty years in election years in NZ.
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not going to happen, is it? Gangs are a symptom rather than a cause.
        
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        February 16, 2020 9:31am
      - Tall Man
        
        Good lad, let’s all do nothing then.
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:57pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Yes Milky, the poor darlings, right?
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:19pm
    - SGA
      
      Yes you have a point that, say, a fight between two members of the same gang, or domestic violence, would not really be “gang conflict”.
      
      That would be the usual interpretation.
      
      Clean up the gangs and a lot of the other violent offending will get cleaned up too.
      
      Successive National-led and Labour-led governments have had decades to address this problem. Excuse me if I have a quiet chuckle at any political party campaigning on how they are going to fix it this time.
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:13am
      - Jack5
        
        They won’t have to promise to fix it. They just have to promise to fight it more vigorously, and to get the police back on concentrating on gangs instead of law-abiding firearms owners.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:40pm
  - Ruahine
    
    The police say the Tauranga shootings are “unrelated to gang conflict”, but they also are reported as saying some of those involved were gang members.
    
    This is mealy mouthed double speak. The Gov’t refuses to take the guns off the criminal Maori gangs. So the ‘Police’ are told to make these puff piece statements.
    
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    February 16, 2020 11:04am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      By gang conflict, they mean two or more gangs fighting among each other. There’s no evidence at the moment to suggest this was the case.
      Not all gang members are Maori. So, associating gang membership with criminality and ethnicity is inaccurate at best, and racist at worst.
      It’s not about puff. It’s about legal accuracy.
      
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      February 16, 2020 12:24pm
      - Tall Man
        
        https://youtu.be/-FJU8_Yw6Y8
        
        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/hawkes-bay-police-remain-armed-region-grapples-increasing-gang-violence
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12304663
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12011122
        
        You make yourself look bloody stupid.
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        Simon says: “associating gang membership with criminality and ethnicity is inaccurate at best”.
        
        I would say that’s laughable, but talk to someone who works in a prison about gang membership, Simon.
        
        The gangs in New Zealand at present are brown. Not so long ago in the south, they were white. In coming decades they may be ethnic Chinese or ethnic Indians. Race isn’t the issue.
        
        Let’s throw gangs into the election campaigning: Party A saying it we need to protect people from gangs; Party B saying it’s inaccurate to link gangs with crime. It would be an election walkover.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:47pm
  - mark15
    
    Police can and do say anything to suit themselves.
    Pointing a finger at a police officer?
    Firearms crime statistic #26,390 thankyou
    
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    February 16, 2020 12:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  NZ has tolerated its gangs for decades because they were “us”… i.e. a bunch of kiwi lads albeit gone bad (tho’ loved by their mummies) but redeemable.
  
  What most of us missed is that some years back East Asian gangs and East European gangs started sizing NZ up as fertile ground to spread their poison.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:12am
  - sooty
    
    You just have to look at the PMs friend, to see the result of that!
    The immigration minister was told to look the other way!
    
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    February 16, 2020 11:00am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      And Rob Muldoon liked to share a beer with gang members. Your comment is speculative at best. Actually, it’s more likely a lie.
      
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      February 16, 2020 12:26pm
      - Tall Man
        
        The drinking with “gang members” is an over simplification and exaggeration. He also was happy to drink with Sir Tom Skinner, Jim Knox and anyone else who could “sink a few”. Whether he “enjoyed” their company is rather moot.
        
        ardern on the other hand orchestrated Permanent Residency for an extremely dangerous criminal who was pivotal in the importation of a large amount of drugs. I can’t see Sir Rob doing that, can you?
        
        And if you are naive enough to believe ardern’s hands were not all over the sroubek conspiracy, please explain ritchie hardcore’s text of appreciation for her efforts……….
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:45pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  “Law and order is a gift issue for National in election year. It shouldn’t be hard to keep the spotlight on it.”
  
  You’re actually quite wrong there. Gangs are now responsible social support agencies that provide phenomenal whanau community backup, education and welfare.
  
  I know this, because I read what are becoming somewhat regular PR puff pieces in the MSM to counter and criticise any potential action on gangs by the National Party.
  
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  February 16, 2020 10:58am
  - freethinker
    
    Suze – Incomprehensible rubbish – is that you ardern?
    
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    February 16, 2020 11:29am
    - SGA
      
      Oh dear, poor Suze. Poe’s Law strikes again.
      
      9 1
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      February 16, 2020 11:55am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Sorry, I’ll re-adjust my sarcasm radar…
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:59am
      - Tall Man
        
        Well I got it!
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:39pm
Tony Stuart

The Greens have a great chance to flex their muscles.

In a week or so, debate on the Prime Minister’s statement will end, and the House will vote on the amendment moved by Simon Bridges that the House has no confidence in the Labour-led government.

The Greens give Labour confidence and supply, so are in a position of strength here. If they were to threaten to abstain from the confidence vote, the coalition would lose. James Shaw should find his manhood, and tell the Prime Minister that unless she reins in Winston Peters (sorry, the racing analogies keep coming!), then all bets are off with the confidence and supply agreement, and their support of the government will be on an issue-by-issue basis. Ardern would then either have to operate as a minority government, or go to the country.

Come on James; show us your principles!
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February 16, 2020 8:12am
- peterwn
  
  James’ party activists would not want that – James would be figuratively hanged, drawn and quartered by his party if he tried that. Same as when he was too scared stiff to have a chat with Bill English in 2017.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Well, that’s certainly an entertaining fantasy.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:29am
  - burt
    
    Agree, the notion that the Greens might stand on their principles rather than stay silent to protect their baubles of office is fantasy without any real world precedent.
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:36am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Quite so burt. Any principles the Green Party had were by and large buried with Rod Donald.
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:14am
      - septic skeptic
        
        This keeps coming up about Rod Donald. IIRC wasn’t he the hypocrite that sold us MMP with the line that he could be trusted cos he wasn’t a politician. Then a few months later he was supping at the list MP trough.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:50am
      - freethinker
        
        Tony – The gweens do have principles and if you don’t like them they have others, but you won’t like them either, with apologies to Groucho Marx.
        
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        February 16, 2020 11:32am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m unaware of any political party taking a stand ‘on principle’ in my lifetime.
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:57am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “I’m unaware…”
        
        You could have stopped at the first two words and it would have made perfect sense.
        
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        February 16, 2020 11:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Can’t think of any either, Jack?
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:41pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @mikenmildagain
        
        This is not about me, it is about you and your unawareness. If you have actually read these blogs even in the last 24 hours, you will have seen David Garrett mention show Act took a stand on principle.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:08pm
    - peterwn
      
      What principles? The Green Party is now just another left wing party to the left of Labour.
      If it put environment and conservation first it would have ‘bottom lined’ Kermedecs, cameras on fishing boats etc. The Party could probably have successfully hit Bill English up for a billion dollars to boost DOC funding and provide for other environmental projects.
      
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      February 16, 2020 12:37pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I see the Greens have today lurched even further to the extreme Left with the announcement that anti-poverty activist Ricardo Menendez-March will campign for the Maungakiekie seat in September, and presumably pick up a plum spot on the Green Party list.
        
        https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2002/S00132/anti-poverty-campaigner-ricardo-menendez-march-selected-as-green-party-candidate-for-maungakiekie.htm
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:26pm
- curry4me
  
  Not likely to happen. The ‘Greens’ probably think a principle is someone hwo works in a school.
  
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  February 16, 2020 1:35pm
- Michael NZ
  
  he has none silly.
  kerdamoc sanctury, cameras on fishing boats, waka jumping law…………
  
  I’m sorry but james shaw hasn’t shown any balls for a while, so what’s different now.?
  As you know full well, he’ll be bitch slapped into next month by the harpies if he steps out of line.
  
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  February 16, 2020 2:25pm
Tauhei Notts

This site has seen some vitriolic criticism of New Zealand First politicians, and rightfully so, in so many instances.
BUT, I have read about one NZF politician that I had never ever heard of. It is Darroch Ball. He is chairman of the Transport and Infrastructure Select Committee.
Darroch had been chairing that Committee’s deliberations on Thursday and he showed a willingness to question those appearing that displayed a huge knowledge of what he was talking about. The sort of thing that I doubt whether any of Simon Bridges’ mates could do.
And also, the sort of thing that none of Jacinda’s associates could do.
Years ago I was told that the brains of parliament come to the fore in the little publicised huge workload of select committees.
Maybe there are some gems in the NZF caucus that the leader, who has animal cunning in spades, keeps hidden from view.
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February 16, 2020 8:12am
- cmm
  
  He should walk the floor then.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:30am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Cross” the floor?
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:36pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You are right. Many people would change their minds about politicians generally if they were to observe a few select committee meetings.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:31am
  - Harriet
    
    Well given all the daily bullshit PR given out by political parties when instead they could show us something positive and truthful instead as you have suggested Milky, I then find what you are saying Milky to be bullshit itself – HOWEVER – I believe you are actually mistaken – as National for one would not like to be seen opposing Labour and the Greens on a daily basis because the VOTERS would then expect that of them all the time.
    In other words — watch Bridges follow suit where police bosses and others downplay the damage that gangs do to maori. In NSW they did the opposite – they gave the public the facts then dismantled every gang and clubhouse in the state.
    
    One photo showed an illegal bar made of bricks in a clubhouse —after it had been smashed to smithereens by police with sledgehammers.
    
    Politicians in NZ are generally cowards on the serious matters.
    
    The pension was designed as a ‘anti destitution payment’. Lazy select committee cowards. 😎
    
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    February 16, 2020 10:55am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    If they cna speak so well in Committee why do many appear like bereft mouths in the House?
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:19pm
- Hacked-Off
  
  Tauhei Notts,
  
  I live in Palmerston North and quite frankly Ball, who resides and campaigns here during elections, is invisible. We see him once or twice on telly in a year at that is it. Although he is a List MP he has done nothing to advocate for Palmerston North. He barely rates during elections and will likely rate even less come 19 September.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:26am
MrLovebucket

The BFD is a WinstonFirst website masquerading as a blog site.

Who is behind the #winstonpeters twitter bot activity at the moment?
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February 16, 2020 8:15am
- MrLovebucket
  
  And RNZ and Stuff are Labour run websites masquerading as new sites.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:17am
- SGA
  
  The BFD is a WinstonFirst website masquerading as a blog site.
  
  And some might argue that Kiwiblog is predominantly a National website masquerading as a blog site. (Personally I’d say that’s an overstatement, even given DPF’s long connections with National, because the views expressed here are often too extreme for National)
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:31am
  - tui47
    
    Unlike the other website, Kiwiblog is simply a blog where DF informs readers and they can share their views and nothing more. In my view the BFD is a blog that attempts to do much more. The main individuals behind it seem to attempt to manipulate politics to suit their own views and political outcomes. Often the views of those commenting do not fit in with the ‘hate Simon’, ‘love Winston’, ‘support poor JLR’ views of the website articles. The BFD in its previous form of Whaleoil’ once supported National but having been cut off during the ‘dirty politics’ saga now supports those against National. Both Winston Peters and JLR receive support from the BFD. That is becoming more clear and transparent every day. Is Winston advising the BFD or are the backers advising the BFD? How much does Winston know about the issues surrounding JLR?
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:27am
    - SGA
      
      Unlike the other website, Kiwiblog is simply a blog where DF informs readers and they can share their views and nothing more.
      
      I’d think that even DPF would blush at that.
      
      DPF is upfront about his political leanings and background. The items that he selects for this blog and his comments on those items reflect those leanings. Most of the commentators here share similar or even more extreme views.
      
      That’s all fine by me – but to suggest that this is some sort of unbiased information site is ridiculous.
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:00am
      - Tall Man
        
        You are more than welcome to post opposing views and often do. I would suggest that should you wish to do so, include supporting facts and you may get a little more traction.
        
        Posting opinion and pretending it is fact is a labour party habit and probably more at home elsewhere.
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:33pm
      - SGA
        
        Traction for what? I have no particular political affiliations or agenda. I read Kiwiblog for general interest and entertainment. Sometimes I question or disagree with things I see written here. I have no delusions that I will change anyone’s mind or behaviour.
        End story.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:33pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Well then I guess that explains your simplistic posts.
        
        Many of us are open to opposing opinions but prefer they are substantiated or supported.
        
        If you don’t give a shit then why post?
        
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        February 16, 2020 3:46pm
      - SGA
        
        Well then I guess that explains your simplistic posts.
        
        Then don’t read them or waste your valuable time responding to them.
        
        There are plenty of people here who much of the time I give the scroll wheel.
        
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        February 16, 2020 3:59pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    At least DPF has a disclosure statement where he clearly outlines his political leanings. I am not aware of anything similar at the BFD.
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement
    
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    February 16, 2020 10:16am
    - SGA
      
      Well, yeah… and it’s nice that DPF does. But that doesn’t really change the main point I was making.
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:16am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Nor does it change my point. DPF has been known to criticise National both when in government and opposition, but by and large, you know what you’re getting when you come to Kiwiblog.
        
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        February 16, 2020 11:39am
      - SGA
        
        And you find the other politically-leaning blogs a mystery?
        
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        February 16, 2020 11:42am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Not at all. The Daily Blog and The Standard make no pretense about where they sit on the political spectrum.
        
        Wouldn’t it be interesting though if BFD was to publish as comprehensive a Disclosure Statement as DPF’s one?
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:29pm
  - double d
    
    If you don’t like it ….. don’t let the door on your arse on the way out.
    
    15 1
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    February 16, 2020 10:19am
    - SGA
      
      It’s not a issue of “like” It is what it is, just as are the other political leaning blog sites. There should be nothing threatening about pointing that out.
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:36am
      - double d
        
        Ummmm ….. not feeling threatened in the slightest.
        I don’t get your point in stating the obvious like a great reveal.
        As KS said, DPFs political leanings are well known and disclosed.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:19pm
      - SGA
        
        I don’t get your point in stating the obvious like a great reveal
        
        “Great reveal”? I thought it was odd that it seemed necessary to point it out at all, and that you seemed to find it sufficiently threatening / offensive / whatever to come back with “don’t let the door on your arse on the way out” 🙂
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:56pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    If Winston’s marketing tactic is to present himself as a responsible centrist who could keep both Labour and National honest, why is his BFD support blog described as ‘right wing’ in the media?
    
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    February 16, 2020 11:03am
    - tui47
      
      If most left wing supporters were honest regarding Winston, they would consider his views and policies as right wing. Of course, given he put their princess in power they will defend both Winston and his policies to the hilt. They remain unaware of their own hypocrisy. For the media anything right of left is tarred with the far right wing brush.
      
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      February 16, 2020 5:09pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  And this site caters predominantly to those associated with the National Party.
  
  And The Standard caters to Labour-aligned.
  
  And The Daily Blog is both Labour and Greens aligned.
  
  So what?
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:31am
  - SGA
    
    “snap”
    
    4 16
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    February 16, 2020 8:32am
  - double d
    
    Again what is this – let’s state the bleedin obvious day?
    (Nice back slaps btw)
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:20pm
  - tui47
    
    With Kiwiblog, DF uses information and his own views on political events. This blog is no more than centre right wing views and comments. I do not believe he attempts to manipulate politics to serve his own interests and vendettas. Mostly Kiwiblog commenters agree with him. One obvious difference is that his views on Trump can differ from many commenters.
    
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    February 16, 2020 5:16pm
the deity formerly known as nigel6888

Principles! ????

What are these steenking principles?

Bwuhahahaa

Best and first laugh of the morning. Shaw’s cojones are in a jar on Marama’s desk, and he won’t be getting them back anytime soon!
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February 16, 2020 8:17am
Simon Gotlieb

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Methinks many commenters have short memories. National certainly weren’t on the side of the journalists when they were in power.
Winston was wrong. Undeniably.
But the hypocrisy is incredible here from people who were so happy to support pressure on journalists when Key was in charge.
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February 16, 2020 8:33am
- Lee C
  
  Yes, the cosy love-fest for John Key was just sickening. Makes Jacinda-mania look like a satanic cult.
  
  I think when all one has is finger-pointing and ‘what if-isms’ it is safe to say the desire to defend a position on its merits has been abandoned.
  
  Two words, ‘pony-tail’.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:57am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Two words
    1st begins with an “F”
    2nd word: Implies travel.
    
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    February 16, 2020 12:38pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I don’t think people have picked up the satirical nature of this comment Lee 😀
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:32pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Yup, went straight over my head. I see “Pony Tail” and I down tick, bit like Stephieboy ( there is an exception around one comment this year, made today).
      
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      February 16, 2020 3:53pm
- Tall Man
  
  Please list incidents of “pressure” on journalists applied by National.
  
  Like ardern, you’re quick with the lies.
  
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  February 16, 2020 1:29pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Just a cowardly downtick but no incidents.
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:12pm
- double d
  
  That’s it. Everyone here that leans right has exactly the same opinion.
  Another lame comment.
  Let’s hear of these specific examples of pressure from National on these journalists. Or is it more of a general thingy that you think as the same journos seem to write mean articles about these nasty righties…. so therefore NAtional must be putting pressure on ….
  
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  February 16, 2020 2:23pm
fightingtemeraire

The UK Daily Express has a report from scientists INSIDE CHINA that the Corona virus came from research facilities in Wuhan not from bats or the wet market
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February 16, 2020 8:37am
- SGA
  
  I’ll take that with a grain of salt at this stage.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:47am
- MCos
  
  If the Daily Express says so it must be true!
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:54am
  - peterwn
    
    As someone commented years ago, the Daily Express did not deserve to have a cartoonist of the calibre of the late Carl Giles. He was a legend, especially with his portrayal of Grandma Giles.
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:16am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Example stories from the Daily Express:
    
    WATCH: Alien invasion fears as giant three-legged construction ‘attacks city’
    Could this strange corpse be the world’s first proof aliens have visited Earth?
    Are these alien skulls? New DNA tests on Elongated Paracas Skulls could ‘change history’
    How to stop Trump? Barack Obama to be ‘last US President’ after revealing ‘aliens exist’
    SHOCK BIBLE CLAIM: Jesus was NOT crucified – it was actually JUDAS on the cross
    REVEALED: This Large Hadron Collider discovery could REWRITE the laws of physics
    Does hand sign made by Merkel, May and now Juncker prove there is a secret EU illuminati?
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh dear, some Daily Express fans…
      
      4 12
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      February 16, 2020 10:58am
    - double d
      
      Disagree with your political allegiances but had a chuckle at the downticks. I think it might be a knee jerk to you Mike.
      However, the Wuhan issue sounds a lot more serious than what is being let on.
      I am involved in exporting to China and we are hearing from our customers that the casualties are a lot higher than being reported – add another zero to the death/sick numbers. All anecdotal of course but the Chinese govt has form at managing information (as the communications expert playing PM would characterise it)
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:27pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Wuhan knew they had a serious problem in Early Jan, had closed a university to stop spread: https://tinyurl.com/wtk66hx
  
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  February 16, 2020 10:31am
- pb
  
  Search up “Unit 731” if you want to look into the abyss. Japanese germ warfare research camps set up in Naking conquered China. Horrific. Worse than any Dr Mengele stuff. They experimented on locals and prisoners of war.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:21am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Well, the CIA had to get their ideas from somewhere…
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/MKULTRA
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:46pm
info@cruzpro.com

Anyone know about the potential for pump action rifles and shotguns to be outlawed in the next tranche of new gun laws?

If true, will there be another “buyback” (not really buying back because they never owned them to begin with)? Or would that result in confiscation?
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February 16, 2020 8:40am
- cmm
  
  Some already are, based on magazine capacity.
  
  Before Cindy, magazine restrictions only applied to semi-auto firearms (ie. those that were self loading). Pumping (or lever action) was considered a manual operation, hence the magazine capacity limitations did not apply.
  
  Now pump and lever guns have a maximum magazine size.
  
  Will they stomp down on ALL pumps and levers? Well I’m not going to try read Hugzilla’s brainwaves.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:58am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    There is more satisfaction and information in a five cardboarded page ‘Spot the Dog’ childrens book than anything eminating from her Toothiness
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:28am
tedbear

I’ve read that that the Climate Change curriculum being ‘taught’ in schools, the line being pushed is that Climate Change is the fault of students’ parents and grandparents.

Resulting from this building up, I can see it won’t be long before there’s riots and parents going to schools where this trash is being flung at children and Principals being lined up.
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February 16, 2020 8:41am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Unfortunatly, most Social study teachers are lefty twats who are gong gangbusters on this, even though virtually none have the qualifications in Climatology or Physics to teach it. Parents need to start reading sceptic literature and start getting their kids to start asking awkward conversations… such as ” How exactly does CO2 trap heat at the molecular level…” and why does CO2 lag temperature by 1000 years, and why was there no correlation between CO2 and temperature 540 million years ago when CO2 was 8000ppm…. and why is the NH freezing this year, and what is a GSM and how do cosmic rays affect cloudiness, and what is the Milakovich theory, and why is Mars so cold with 95% CO2, and what is adiabatic heating, and what are the Stephan Boltzmann Laws, and how do decreased pressure gradients during warmer times reult in more benign weather, what frequencies are absorbed by CO2 and why are these saturated, and how does the atmosphere heat the oceans ( since it doesn’t)….
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Don’t disturb social studies teachers their brains are in a suspended state.
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:26pm
- Ruahine
  
  tedbear.
  Climate change is caused by ‘White’ people especially old ‘White’ people.
  Climate change only occurs in ‘White’ peoples countries. It does not occur in Mali or Chad or Somalia or Egypt or even China or India apparently. It does of course occur in Israel.
  The only old ‘White’ person who does not cause Climate change is AL Gore.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:32am
burt

Labour supporters must quietly have their fingers crossed that Labour call a snap election and lose the election – so they can break the perfect record of taking a functional economy and turning it into recession every time they have been in government since the 1960’s.
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February 16, 2020 8:43am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Labour supporters *don’t care* about recessions: enough tax still comes in, one way or another, to pay for their government-funded benefits and jobs.
  
  And Greens absolutely love recessions: great, shows we’re producing less CO2 and Gaia can have a rest…
  
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  February 16, 2020 2:41pm
raven

Winston sounds like a bully, a law-breaking manipulative bully. If our Prime Minister does not reprimand him then she is just as bad as he is. Is this the message she wants to send out to the people of NZ?
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February 16, 2020 8:43am
- tui47
  
  She will not reprimand him. She is far too weak and dependent on him. Also, being out of her depth with serious issues (that cannot be solved with hugs and feelz) does not help.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:33am
- JackRabbit
  
  “Winston sounds like a bully”
  
  Winston IS a bully.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:34am
raven

Before this election, can the opposition do an advert with a simple table – what the coalition said they’d do vs what they did.
Then the general population, most whom don’t closely follow politics, can clearly see how this government has failed.

Jacinda mostly got in because she seemed friendly, was a women, and people remembered her from her Youth days having mini debates with Simon on TVNZ’s Breakfast show. They gave her a chance, which was fine. Now they need the facts to see she hasn’t achieved.
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February 16, 2020 8:57am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  Also I think for many voters, Kiwibuild and the promises on housing generally was a drawcard. Of course things have just got worse and in some places much worse. Try renting a place in Wellington right now.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:13am
- Raphael
  
  The problem is that Labour apologists will look at that table and blame “9 years of neglect” for preventing Labour from being able to deliver.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:18am
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Yesterday petulant critics on KB raving about trampers carrying PLBs

NZ mountain rescue has one goal and that is to save lives. In that role they do not query whether missing trampers have a PLB system.I’m sure they had only one thing on their mind and that is found and rescue Stephanie Simpson and others. It is not as though Mt Spiring National park is a vast Canadian Rockies or Russian Arctic wilderness.

But perhaps those critics can urge Simon and David to send the rescue bill to her family to be deducted from her estate. Additionally, introduce a user pays for Search and Rescue in their reelection platforms

I’m confident it will go down like the proverbial lead balloon with the voter. But hey why not give such idiocy a try and further marginalise yourselves into electoral oblivion where you all rightly belong.
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February 16, 2020 8:58am
- burt
  
  If you think Mt Aspiring National Park is a simple place to find a missing tramper then you have no idea what you’re talking about.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:08am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    burt, not suggesting otherwise but relative to some other wilderness areas its quite small. But you agree that Mountain Serach and rescue ‘s priority is to find the tramper.
    
    Not ask whether they should caryy a locater beacon?
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:27am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      I think you should stop digging. Because, and I say this with regret, you sound like a crazy person.
      
      Of course search and rescue, and they are mostly volunteers, want to find trampers. But they also support beacons big time especially for solo trampers.
      
      I go tramping and I know search and rescue volunteers. With respect, you know nothing. I have no idea what you are trying to achieve here but you would be well advised to take the rest of the day off.
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:41am
    - burt
      
      By not suggesting otherwise you concur you have no idea what you’re talking about. Rational people in that situation shut up, but you’re still digging.
      
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      February 16, 2020 9:44am
      - JackRabbit
        
        burt,
        
        Stephieboy2 would consider it his right to go into the mountains without a PLB, get lost, and consider it his right for Search and Rescue to come find him. Furthermore if he suffered an injury or nearly died, he would kick up a media storm or sue Search and Rescue for taking so long.
        
        The idea of taking responsibility and being prepared would not enter into his socialist soaked brain.
        
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        February 16, 2020 11:39am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  Bloody hell you are annoying. I was part of that debate yesterday and I was not petulant. We should be encouraging more trampers to carry beacons for the obvious reason. They turn rescue into a quick certainty if you can activate it. And frankly if you tramp solo as I often do, not taking a beacon is irresponsible.
  
  I would never support people being charged for rescue.
  
  I really wonder how your brain works.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:19am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Sydney
    i would support those going tramping without prior notification and a route plan & not having a PLB, being charged both for money and criminally.
    
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    February 16, 2020 2:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Sounds like:
  
  1. You’ve never been tramping
  2. You’ve never been anywhere near the Southern Alps
  3. You have no idea of the size, geography and climate of Mt Aspiring NP.
  
  But I could be wrong……
  do regale us with some of your Southern Alps back-country tales….I’ll be very interested.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:24am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    Yes well said. I feel very sorry for the family of the dead tramper. It will be interesting to read the coroners report and others will hopefully learn from her mistakes.
    
    There was another case in 2016 where two foreign tourists went tramping against advice. They didn’t tell anyone where they were going because they did not want to pay for Hut stats so decided to keep a low profile. The guy froze to death. The woman managed to break into a locked wardens hut where she found food. It was amazing good luck. She was stuck in there for weeks before being found and was lucky to survive. It is worth a read.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115457620/czech-couples-decisionmaking-on-deadly-great-walk-tramp-criticised
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:36am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    MW. I have extensively being tramping NZ back in the 1980s-90s.
    
    We as agroup followed advice from DOC etc making sure we signed the intention books, adequate food and water and tramping gear. etc . Stick to the designated track.
    
    In the Southern Alps? Yes!.
    
    Maybe Stephanie Simpson should of carried a locator beacon and stuck to designated tracks. But I bet Mountain search and rescue wern’t thinking about those kind of nicieties.
    
    Maybe a regulation is now due making it compulsory for all trampers to carry one?
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:38am
    - Nookin
      
      Is suspect that SAR was very conscious of outcomes that may have been achieved had there been a PLB.
      
      https://nzsar.govt.nz/About-Us/Beacons/Choose-Your-Distress-Beacon-Wisely
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:07am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I thought you were born in 2010. You really have back slidden.
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:30pm
    - Michael NZ
      
      yes stephie, yes!
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:35pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      ‘Should of”? Stuffy hasn’t even finished school!
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:55pm
- cmm
  
  Hey stupid person.
  
  The central theme was that people NOT carrying PLBs (and otherwise acting stupidly) are putting the lives of the SAR people at risk.
  
  SAR is extremely complex and it is extremely difficult to find things if you do not have a good starting point.
  
  Anyone that has been in the Drakensberg will tell you it is way more open and easy to search than Southern Alps.
  
  In about 2000 my brother was leading a tour group in the Drakensberg area and found a plane that had been missing for over 2 years.
  
  The general location of the plane was well known – better than 10km. Over 1000 hours were put into searching for the plane., including fixed wing and helicopter time.
  
  All that effort and they could not find a 4-seater plane in a relatively easy to search environment.
  
  So how much harder are things for searching for a single person in a difficult-to-search environment?
  
  If you want to be found and rescued, then be responsible and make sure you (a) don’t do dumb shit and (b) have a PLB to make it easy to find you quickly.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:43am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Or sign an intentions book and stick to designated and recognised Mt Aspiring etc tracks.
    
    Plus adequate tramping gear , food wand water.
    
    As most trampers ( including the likes of Sir Ed , Philip Temple etc ) have done and come out safely with or without a locator beacon over many long years.
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:57am
    - cmm
      
      Sure do everything you can.
      
      I’ll put money on it that Sir Ed would have carried a PLB if it was available at the time.
      
      All the tough old blokes I know that have been in the mountains for years now carry PLBs and are verbally abusive of anyone that does not.
      
      The biggest problem is that these very arrogant people think they are immune to problems, take chances, do dumb things and then get into trouble.
      
      A PLB on its own is not magic, but it is a huge step – not just for your own safety but also for that of SAR crews.
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:17am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’m sure Sir Ed would have carried a tracker if available. I once was lost in the bush in the Otaki foothills and would have been been only, say, 200m from the track. It’s easy to get increasingly further lost.
        
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        February 16, 2020 2:36pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      She told folks where she was going.. her body was located close to where she had been seen on the Saturday.
      
      She had been swept away whilst crossing Pyke Creek.
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/14/family-desperate-uk-hiker-goes-missing-new-zealand/
      
      You keep demonstrating that you have no idea what has happened in this case.
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:34am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        MW , I do not. What I said is that just because someone does not have a locater beacon should not stop Mountain Search and rescue attempting to find them!
        
        Agree?
        
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        February 16, 2020 12:48pm
      - cmm
        
        stephie: You don’t really get it. Attempting to find a person and actually finding a person, in time, are very different things.
        
        The lack of a beacon DOES often prevent people being found in time.
        
        Without a PLB:
        1) Nobody knows you are even in trouble until you don’t show up and intention books have been checked. By then it is often too dark to start SAR.
        2) You might have gone missing anywhere along a 10km route to the next hut etc. Find a person or their detritus is challenging.
        3) When they start searching they have a huge space to search – odds of finding you within the survival window of 24 hours (in many cases) are close to zero.
        
        With an activated PLB:
        1) They know you are in trouble immediately. Operation starts immediately – even at night because they know exactly where to go and search.
        2) They have a location good to a couple hundred metres – better in most cases. From there IR and such can often locate a person whin a minute.
        3) Fly in, grab you, fly out. No S just R.
        Chance of a successful rescue within a few hours is huge.
        
        Resources expended with a beacon: 1 helicopter flight.
        
        Without a beacon: hundreds of people searching and whacking every bush along the last path.
        
        Anyone that goes bush, or fly fishing, or hunting, winderness cycling – particularly on their own – should have a PLB. If you don’t, then you are a supreme arsehole.
        
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        February 16, 2020 1:24pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Comparing yourself to Sir Edmund Hilary is a laugh. For a start he was not a socialist, so wasn’t limited by his constricted thinking.
      
      And as cmm has said, Sir Ed would have carried a PLB if they had been available. He took every opportunity he had to have backup.
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:45am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      “stick to designated tracks”
      
      All but the easiest tracks are not well formed. ie they’re not like footpaths. All trampers would have had an experience where they have temporarily lost the track.
      
      Again, you demonstrate that you are ill informed.
      
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      February 16, 2020 1:14pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Hey, go for a tramp down south. [Mod – deleted. Those suggestions are beyond the pale]
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:33am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Ok, it was not meant to be taken seriously, although it is suprising the number who do exactly that. We have just had a gutsfull of Stephieboys constant pathetic, sniping. He is plague on this blog.
    
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    February 16, 2020 11:57am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      Well we are likely to face ztev in a few weeks after the end of his 12 months ban. Only silver lining is that his next ban will be permanent.
      
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      February 16, 2020 1:16pm
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I’m confident it will go down like the proverbial lead balloon with the voter. But hey why not give such idiocy a try and further marginalise yourselves into electoral oblivion where you all rightly belong.

In respect of posters lauding the UK High Court decision defending free speech However I still remain certain that real menace to free speech here is in our own backyard. It is in form the kind of extremist rhetoric dished up by sundry posters here on KB, YSB, BFD etc .

Thank you High Court judge Mr Justice Julian Knowles

We also need the courage of Julia Ebner and other journos to do similar here,

Interview

Julia Ebner: ‘There’s an adrenaline rush in undercover work, getting inside a far-right movement’

Julia Ebner spent two years infiltrating far-right networks. The counter-extremism expert discusses fear, loathing and democracy in an age of disinformation

One October evening in 2017, the counter-extremism expert Julia Ebner put on a wig and a pair of glasses, walked into a pub in Mayfair, London, and sat down with 20 strangers. She was attending the inaugural strategy meeting for the UK members of Generation Identity, a pan-European far-right network known for spreading anti-immigration ideas and stoking fears about a “great replacement” in which white populations become minorities. Ebner had spent months infiltrating the group’s encrypted, invite-only messaging channels under an alias and striking up a rapport with members; now she was meeting them in person,

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/feb/14/julia-ebner-theres-an-adrenaline-rush-in-undercover-work-getting-inside-a-far-right-movement-
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February 16, 2020 9:06am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  “I’m confident it will go down like the proverbial lead balloon with the voter.”
  
  I don’t know what you are taking about. What is “it”?
  
  I don’t know what you are trying to achieve in these debates. On five occasions I have tried to engage you by challenging you to back your assertions by posing specific questions to you. You never respond.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:25am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    You are expecting that idiot to respond?
    You must be new here.
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:42am
- cmm
  
  Two lead balloons in two posts? You know how bad lead is right?
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:29am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Only when licked off the cot or at high velocity
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:53am
- JackRabbit
  
  You are forgetting that far right is far left.
  Communism and Fascism are one and the same, just different marketing.
  
  And an adrenaline rush is a not a reason for anything.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:46am
JibberJabber

Disappointing maybe, but should be outweighed by the relief of dodging a bullet of Feral Hellhole proportions…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/119475287/firsthome-buyer-i-was-told-cancel-or-live-in-a-state-housing-development
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February 16, 2020 9:16am
- marcw
  
  What will really burn the first-home buyer is when she realises that she is also paying for the Housing Corp to out bid her! That’s what this government’s policy of buying up private developments means. They are depriving the savers from the opportunity to own their first home, because they are actually in competition with them, using their money. Sick.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:31am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  [Mod: Really? You want to suggest things like that? Do it on your own blog.]
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:33am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Still deleting critism of any moderation activities I see
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:14pm
Ruahine

Green Technology making big advances.
https://www.rt.com/news/480917-berlin-tesla-gigafactory-protests/
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February 16, 2020 9:23am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I wonder if the Kremlin allows the Telsa to be sold in Russia?
  
  Would their propaganda TV service RT know?
  
  Doesn’t seem a huge amount of forest space taken.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:44am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You are not very informed are you?
    Why would Russia be interested in Teslas when it can produce its own evs
    
    https://www.automotivelogistics.media/electric-vehicles/russia-begins-serial-production-of-zetta-ev-supported-by-export-trade/39751.article
    
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    February 16, 2020 10:42am
  - Jack5
    
    Apart from in its cities, Russia, the world’s biggest country, spread across 11 time zones, will be near impossible to service with recharging stations.
    
    They face a bigger challenge even than Russia offered Napoleon, and Hitler.
    
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    February 16, 2020 8:33pm
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  Of course you will never hear the Greens here mention that. Or the slave children who mine lithium.
  
  I heard JAG the other day saying that the car fleet needed to be electrified as fast as possible. It is quite annoying. Like everyone who doesn’t buy an electric car is irrational. I don’t buy an electric car because one that comes even close to meeting my needs is unaffordable. Even if a Nissan Leaf met my needs, I am not paying 60,000 dollars for an ordinary looking small car. Come back when they are 20,000 dollars and I might look again.
  
  Secondly, the whole purpose of the emissions trading scheme was to put a price on carbon and then let people make their own decisions. Instead we have a price on carbon AND JAG lecturing us about car choices.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:49am
  - Jules99
    
    Maybe she means as fast as possible because they know they are about lose power.
    
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    February 16, 2020 11:54am
- cmm
  
  Musk snouts another trough…
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:56am
- JibberJabber
  
  Pfttt Tesla, rank amateurs…
  A windfarm near Aachen is razing 600 acres to build 7 200ft tall Wind turbines,
  https://climatechangedispatch.com/germany-raze-forest-wind-turbines/
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:10am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    German energy policy is nuts.
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:17pm
mark15

define ‘far right’ movement please
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February 16, 2020 9:24am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Anything a socilasit says it is especially if holding a view not in line with theirs
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:35am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Paulus Gnome , so creating a fair and just society for all is an anathema to you?
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:46am
    - double d
      
      Haha. Fair.
      So reasonable. We want what is fair. The thing is, who gets to define what is fair.
      I think it is fair if I take what you earned and give it to those who vote for me. As that is fair.
      Who defines what is fair and who defines what is just? (I know the answer …… it was a rhetorical question)
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:38pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Far Right – a term used when one is befret of any counterpoint in a discussion, usually in the second sentence . . .
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:36am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    This might be helpful,
    
    “By contrast, the phrase “far-right” is used to describe those who favor an absolutist government, which uses the power of the state to support the dominant ethnic group or religion and often to criminalize other ethnic groups or religions.”
    
    Right-wing politics – Wikipedia
    
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    February 16, 2020 9:48am
    - cmm
      
      Ummm, how is that different to Far Left?
      
      The Far Left’s religion/ethnicity is The Party and others are criminalised.
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:02am
    - RightNow
      
      That makes our current government far right
      
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      February 16, 2020 10:04am
    - freethinker
      
      Tont – The gweens do have principles and if you don’t like them they have others, but you won’t like them either, with apologies to Groucho Marx.
      
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      February 16, 2020 11:36am
- tf78
  
  I think he means traditional, rational, normal thoughts are not for him.
  
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  February 16, 2020 9:59am
artemisia

Gosh the Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr is a sensitive wee petal.

Mr Partridge cannot be the only one considering that using Maori mythology to explain a central bank’s function is way weird.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/119530605/a-year-of-anger-between-reserve-bank-governor-adrian-orr-and-nz-initiatives-roger-partridge
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February 16, 2020 9:44am
Fletch

The woman is like a bad smell –

Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg is considering choosing failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton as a running mate, according to the Drudge Report on Saturday.

Matt Drudge launched a siren banner on the front page of the Drudge Report to highlight the news, citing sources close to the Bloomberg campaign.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/02/15/drudge-michael-bloomberg-considering-hillary-clinton-running-mate/
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February 16, 2020 9:46am
- cmm
  
  Clinton as a VC running mate is beyond stupid.
  
  First, she won’t take a submissive role. It would be Hugzilla and Winston in the White House.
  Second, the idea behind a VC is having someone to take over if the Prez falls off his perch. Clinton is more likely to fall off hers first.
  Thirdly, basket of deplorables.
  
  Still, she has more foreign experience than all the others Dems combined, so that would be in her favour.
  
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  February 16, 2020 10:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She will suicide Bloomberg when the time is right
  
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  February 16, 2020 10:45am
  - cmm
    
    Somehow Bloomberg’s neck got tangled up in my oxygen supply time… Honest-injun!
    
    8 2
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    February 16, 2020 1:39pm
    - Colville
      
      Honest injun?
      
      Pocahontas Warren did it? 🙂
      
      4 1
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      February 16, 2020 4:20pm
- SGA
  
  Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg is considering choosing failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton as a running mate
  
  I would be very, very surprised. Let’s wait and see how credible this story turns out to be.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:07am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Drudge Report via Breitbart, so probably complete bullshit.
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:51pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The speculative reports are all over the place.
      It could well be true, but where’s Hilary’s neurologist who followed her throughout the 2016 campaign?
      
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      February 16, 2020 2:43pm
- curry4me
  
  Hopefully, that’ll make him crash and burn like the Hindenburg.
  
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  February 16, 2020 1:50pm
- Ruahine
  
  Michael Bloomberg could be dead within a year of being elected.
  
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  February 16, 2020 1:56pm
Hugh Pavletich

Coronavirus … Are the economic disruption costs adequately understood ? ..

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/14/economy/coronavirus-china-economy-small-businesses/index.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/14/economy/coronavirus-china-economy-small-businesses/index.html

THE COVID-19 CORONAVIRUS AND ITS ECONOMIC IMPACT (UPDATED 14TH FEB … CAPITAL ECONOMICS

https://www.capitaleconomics.com/the-economic-effects-of-the-coronavirus/
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February 16, 2020 10:37am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Keith Woodford says COVID-19 is a black swan event that is likely to have larger effects across the New Zealand and global economy than currently recognised, but with New Zealand agri-food likely to be buffered … Interest Co NZ
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/103657/keith-woodford-says-covid-19-black-swan-event-likely-have-larger-effects-across
  
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  February 16, 2020 10:37am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Chinese developers hit by coronavirus sales ban … Financial Times
    
    https://www.ft.com/content/adce7b62-4f0b-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
    
    … extract …
    
    … A report from E-House showed that during the first week of February fewer than four homes a day were sold in Beijing, a city of more than 20m people, at a time when hundreds of homes would usually be sold every day.
    
    One real-estate agent in Beijing said on Friday that little activity in the market had started up again because “people are still scared”.
    
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    February 16, 2020 6:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The former head of the IPCC ( Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) Rajendra Pachauri has died.

Here are two contrasting obituaries about Al Gore’s fellow Nobel Prize recipient.

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2020/02/shed-no-tears-for-rajendra-pachauri/

Rajendra Pachauri, former IPCC head accused of sexual harassment, dies aged 79
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/14/rajendra-pachauri-former-ipcc-head-dies-aged-79
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February 16, 2020 10:51am
- rightoverlabour
  
  I didn’t realise most alarmists were sleazeballs. That first link is sobering reading.
  
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  February 16, 2020 11:37am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Why Rajendra Pachaur reminds me of Donald Trump I’m not sure.
  
  Any help out there?
  
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  February 16, 2020 12:50pm
  - Inandout
    
    steph, the article was written by Terry Thomas; there fixed it for you. Yes, you really do need help.
    
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    February 16, 2020 1:29pm
Tasman Terror

Jacinda’s into Vogue. Winston’s into rogue. Stuff’s into fluff. Time for a leader not a reader.
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February 16, 2020 10:53am
- MCos
  
  You’re right!
  The last thing we want is a leader who actually reads anything.
  
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  February 16, 2020 3:14pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I think “comprehension” is the issue here, or total lack thereof.
    
    6 2
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    February 16, 2020 3:52pm
wilderbeast

Anyone read this morning’s article about the fallout between Roger Partridge / the NZ Initiative and Adrian Orr. Am I missing something or is Orr the most ego-centric, entitled RB governor in living memory? Seems to simply need to get over himself, surely you don’t get all that power and money without the scrutiny to go with it….
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February 16, 2020 11:02am
Ruahine

Sports News.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/israel-folau-scores-six-minutes-into-catalans-debut-1.4175351
NZ news papers piling in against him. Not putting up any links.
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February 16, 2020 11:47am
rightoverlabour

WTF?

“Cash grab: Cops seize property worth millions over health and safety breaches
A workplace fatality has seen police use a law usually associated with drugs and organised crime to seize millions of dollars in assets from a business owner because of health and safety breaches.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12308768

Shamelessly Copied and pasted from the freedom of speech Blog.
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February 16, 2020 11:48am
Tasman Terror

There was a young girl called Jacinda stuck in a takeaway shop. She got bored with silly customers and her frequent use of the mop. She met an old man called Winston who
encouraged her to stop selling pies. He told her it was often more fun playing with spies. So she moved to Wellington, had baby Neve and fell in to the top.
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February 16, 2020 12:20pm
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
A trip down NZ Climate change crank land,,

“The final cut: crank paper on NZ temperature record gets its rebuttal – warming continues unabated..”

“At last: the curtain falls on the final act in the case of NIWA versus the NZ climate cranks. de Freitas et al (2015) – which purported to show warming in NZ was much lower than previously calculated – is shown to be comprehensively wrong in a new paper by NZ’s top temp experts.”

Way back in the spring of 2014, NZ’s little band of climate cranks somehow managed to get a paper published based on their recalculation of New Zealand’s long term temperature record1. The effort – based on calculations done to support their infamous court case against the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA), which they emphatically lost – purported to show that New Zealand’s long term warming rate was only a third of the amount previously calculated. As I pointed out at the time, it was riddled with errors and bad scholarship, but it appeared in the peer-reviewed literature2, and so required a peer-reviewed rebuttal…

http://hot-topic.co.nz/the-final-cut-crank-paper-on-nz-temperature-record-gets-its-rebuttal-warming-continues-unabated/#comment-49010
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February 16, 2020 12:26pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Drop it. Niwa were just following the HADCRUT emails line which advised that data sets BASELINES would have to be adjusted downwards because they had lost their warming. Faithful little meteorologists.
  
  Someday there will be an accounting if the world turns out to be cold instead of hot. Causing panic, economic disaster, anxiety is not the aim of proper science.
  
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  February 16, 2020 2:52pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    anxiety is not the aim of proper science” ??
    Nor is quackery!
    
    Cranks lose court case against NZ temperature record, NIWA awarded costs”
    
    The attempt by NZ’s merry little band of climate cranks to have the NZ temperature record declared invalid has ended in ignominious defeat. In his ruling [PDF], handed down today, Justice Venning finds:
    
    The plaintiff does not succeed on any of its challenges to the three decisions of NIWA in issue. The application for judicial review is dismissed and judgment entered for the defendant. [and] The defendant is entitled to costs.
    
    It will be interesting to see whether the NZ Climate Science Education Trust, which was established purely to bring this action, is able to stump up to cover NIWA’s costs. If it doesn’t, the NZ taxpayer will be left to pick up the bill for this absurd bit of political grandstanding by the Climate “Science” Coalition.
    
    http://hot-topic.co.nz/cranks-lose-court-case-against-nz-temperature-record-niwa-awarded-costs/
    
    As the saying goes: I rest my case.
    
    2 18
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    February 16, 2020 3:23pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Your case is nothing against the leaked emails showing the start of this climate fraud from the Hadley centre in the UK.
      
      12 3
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      February 16, 2020 5:03pm
      - Stephieboy2
        
        KevO’Brien, quit the deflection!
        
        1 15
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        February 16, 2020 5:18pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        There is no such thing as ‘climate fraud’.
        
        1 14
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        February 16, 2020 5:39pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        @ mikenmild Yes there is Climate Fraud. It’s perpetuated by the Michael Mann hockey stick Club. Deleted data, spliced unrelated data and “removing the blip”. I hope he eventually does go to the “state pen”.
        
        https://greatclimatedebate.com/penn-state-or-state-pen/
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:40pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Whole bunch of alarmists on that site celebrating the death of science, Idiots. Do we need thousands to start freezing to death around the world, to maybe see how badly we have been scammed….
    
    12 3
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    February 16, 2020 3:50pm
    - Stephieboy2
      
      [Deleted – gratuitous insults. mods]
      
      0 15
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      February 16, 2020 5:20pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Maybe from time to time we need to see these comments people just to make an honest judgement of the poster.
        
        7 2
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        February 16, 2020 7:35pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Hey mods.
        Would this be about the ninth time that Stephie the idiot was on his last warning?
        Just kink the bastard out FFS!
        
        7 1
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        February 16, 2020 7:35pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I thought he got a “last” warning a couple of days ago….
        
        [Deleted – any more gratuitous insults like this and you will be taking a break (again). Mod]
        
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/02/general_debate_14_february_2020.html#comments
        
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        February 16, 2020 7:39pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        OOh, I’d love to know what he said….
        
        Actually I don’t care. Tired of arguing with idiots. Now if Maggy had to raise a point of difference in some statment I’d made, I’d pay attention. And we would discuss it rationally and argue our respective points of view based on our understanding of the issue at hand. Thats how scientific progress is made. Doing a Michael Mann and suing everyone and calling them names when disagreeing with him is just stupid. Michael Mann is at least nominally educated, Stephieboy, not so much.
        
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        February 16, 2020 10:35pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      As I recall, the losing plaintiffs simply dissolved their bogus trust so that they did not have to pay for their whacko lawsuit.
      
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      February 16, 2020 6:40pm
Simon Gotlieb

Hmmm…

Police may have to modify their comments about there not being any intergang violence at the moment.
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February 16, 2020 12:39pm
- Raphael
  
  except by all account today’s little episode was intragang violence (i.e. all in the same gang). So technically not intergang violence.
  
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  February 16, 2020 6:14pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Whatever, but it’s not a good look when it’s happening in the police minister’s patch.
    
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    February 16, 2020 7:37pm
MrTips

Coronavirus in China, 69K cases, 2.4% death rate. Only one foreigner dead in China.

Overseas, 700 cases, 0.5% death rate. At least half of the four dead are tourists from Wuhan.

There is enough consistency emerging that a) this virus seems to be hitting the Chinese way harder than others b) the Chinese health care system is shit, despite the happening before with SARS c) most overseas clinicians agree this is more like H1N1 than SARS.

I repeat, this thing is being blown way out of proportion and it’s the Chinese political/medical system that’s made it worse.
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February 16, 2020 1:06pm
- Harriet
  
  The Chinese ambassadors the world over are going to have it coming.
  
  They consistently have shown throughout this matter little regard for mankind.
  Their vocabulary has solely revolved around allowing Chinese to travel where ever they see fit, and of no mention of the costs to a nation state from illness, loss of productivity, financial costs….
  
  Disgusting fucken behaviour – but then what did the governments expect from Chinese Communists – a cocktail at sunset in Havana? 😎
  
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  February 16, 2020 2:04pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve6xQvwVHZs
A bit of light entertainment from Mark Dice to go with your Sunday dinner.
Money can’t buy cool. It can buy train loads of astro turf though.
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February 16, 2020 1:22pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4uVrveftys

Judge takes down thought police. A win for free speech.
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February 16, 2020 1:22pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Ujlmkeqeg

Trump CRACKING DOWN on Sanctuary Cities; Deploys Tactical Agents to Make ARRESTS!!!
I hope we will hear a lot more about this. ‘Sanctuary cities’ and open borders are an existensial threat.
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February 16, 2020 1:24pm
Tony Stuart

There’s been a major gang brawl in Maraenui, Napier today.

But fear not; Stuart Nash’s office is onto it. By news time tonight, the Minister will have put out a statement that this wasn’t a gang incident at all, but simply an argument between a whole lot of nice fellows who just happened to be members of gangs 😀
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February 16, 2020 2:50pm
- Tall Man
  
  And they’re having a beer with Rob Muldoon later.
  
  8 1
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  February 16, 2020 3:50pm
Stephieboy2

More on” Beetlejuice,”

Forbes: Will Betelgeuse Explode? After ‘Unprecedented’ Dimming The Giant Star Is Now Changing Shape

Spectacular new images taken using the European Southern Observatory’s Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Cerro Paranal in Chile, published today, reveal that red supergiant star Betelgeuse isn’t just dimming, but could also be changing shape.

The star in the constellation of Orion has been visibly dimming since late 2019, and now stands at just 36% of its normal brightness. Astronomers and experienced stargazers can easily see the difference, and it’s got them talking … about the chance of the star becoming a supernova…”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2020/02/14/will-betelgeuse-explode-after-unprecedented-dimming-the-giant-star-is-now-changing-shape/#65bb6ccf624c

Become a supernova when? Hard to tell of course but no harm going out to look at the night sky whilst Orion is still with us before it moves to northern latitudes.

Awesome stuff on a cosmic scale!
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February 16, 2020 3:08pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  I’ll have to uptick this. I know I may need therapy afterwards… Interesting thing is that if we do see it go super, it happened a long, long time ago…
  
  6 0
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  February 16, 2020 3:34pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    I was witness to the SuperNova SN 1987A in the Large Magellanic Cloud.
    
    Incredibly breathtaking that it took its light some 180,000light years to reach us.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A
    
    2 12
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    February 16, 2020 5:24pm
  - Raphael
    
    700 years ago.
    
    Another thing is that the effect a supernova that close can have on our own biosphere. Although if we witnessed Betelgeuse go bang today, it would take 100,000 years for the charged particles to reach us.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova
    
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    February 16, 2020 6:20pm
JibberJabber

Close.

police later said it was members of just one gang fighting themselves.

Just a disagreement over which pie is best Potato top vs Steak and Cheese.
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February 16, 2020 3:35pm
- Tall Man
  
  Pepper and beef you fool 😉
  
  12 2
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  February 16, 2020 3:49pm
  - JibberJabber
    
    I doubt Gang members would have the culinary refinement required to degust a Pepper Steak Pie, incidentally my Personal Favourite( your apology is accepted ?).
    Indeed I just had one of the best ( I have ever had) for lunch today , a https://foodme.co.nz/p/herbert-adams-slow-cooked-beef-with-shiraz-cracked-pepper-pies-400g-904038007
    from PaknSav Silverdale
    
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    February 16, 2020 5:24pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Bastard … We have a bakery down this way with the best Steak and Pepper pies and only $3.50.
      
      Isn’t life grand?
      
      6 1
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      February 16, 2020 7:28pm
      - alloytoo
        
        The only thing better, and everyone is going to hate this, is Steak and Kidney Pepper pie. (like me granny used to make)
        
        4 0
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        February 16, 2020 8:18pm
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  Potato top pies are awful.
  
  6 3
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  February 16, 2020 4:08pm
  - Lance
    
    Philistine !!!
    
    2 0
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    February 16, 2020 4:49pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Your opinion has been noted and referred for “re-education”.
      
      2 1
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      February 16, 2020 7:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mince and cheese.
  
  4 2
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  February 16, 2020 4:53pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Steak and cheese Steve NS.
    They leave the gristle in so a fella can use his toothpicks properly. 🙂
    
    3 1
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    February 16, 2020 4:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  fighting themselves? That would be the females, shemales and queers. Don’t pretend for one minute that they don’t exist in gangs
  
  7 2
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  February 16, 2020 4:56pm
- MrTips
  
  Fairlie Bakehouse chicken and corn followed by a sliver (ok, the whole f#&-“ing thing) of custard square. Then a lie down before the next fishing spot.
  
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  February 16, 2020 5:09pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Denheaths I assume?
    
    2 1
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    February 16, 2020 7:24pm
    - MrTips
      
      Of course 🙂
      And a 3Boys IPA….
      
      God I need to go fishing
      
      2 0
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      February 16, 2020 9:14pm
Lance

Love him or hate him, but Mike Hosking nails AT
“Hosking had come to the sad reality that Auckland was a city run by idiots, the ideologically dangerous and dysfunctional and that Auckland was an ugly disorganised inefficient mess”
Full Goof was begging to differ… twat.

Personally I have come to the conclusion that AT are the devils spawn.
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February 16, 2020 4:46pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I am surprised that Mr Hosking doesn’t run for office, just to show how things should be done.
  
  2 14
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  February 16, 2020 6:32pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Exactly, how dare a rate payer have an opinion unless he/she is prepared to stand for office.
    
    I assume that means that we will see a reduction in your pithy but childish comments as you are not prepared to institute your own blog …
    
    13 2
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    February 16, 2020 7:17pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Unlike AT and Phil Goff Mr Hosking knows what he’s good at and is sticking to knitting
    
    9 1
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    February 16, 2020 8:23pm
Johnboy

Good God! How can you trust the judgement of a school that’s named after the fuckwit that lost Maleme for us? 🙂

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/119460630/girls-must-talk-to-guidance-counsellor-before-wearing-pantsshorts-to-school
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February 16, 2020 4:55pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  ‘Lost’ Maleme? You should have been at Massey Wellington this weekend where this was a topic of some discussion.
  
  2 8
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  February 16, 2020 6:30pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Details/References of discussion please.
    
    5 2
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    February 16, 2020 7:18pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Are you a policeman now Maggy 🙂
      
      1 5
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      February 16, 2020 7:39pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I am the daughter of a 22nd Bn soldier who was occupying Pt 107 above the Maleme Airfield on 20 May 1941.
        
        I am the 1st recipient of the L.W. Andrew V.C. Bursary.
        
        14 0
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        February 16, 2020 8:00pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Maggy, it was humour, my humour and I am impressed by your achievements and competency.
        
        The phrase “are you a Policeman” is used in my circle of friends frequently when one asks a few questions.
        
        It was not meant to be derogatory in any way.
        
        8 2
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        February 16, 2020 8:35pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I don’t mind..
        
        It could look a peculiar request from an old lady…
        
        6 1
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        February 16, 2020 9:04pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Maggy, you will be well aware of the controversy that has surrounded the action around Maleme. You may be interested to know that Aaron Fox, who spoke at this conference is writing a biography of James Hargest. A most interesting subject.
        
        4 5
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        February 16, 2020 9:15pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Shit Maggy, old lady … 60 is the new 40.
        
        1 1
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        February 16, 2020 10:01pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sure Maggy. A most interesting conference was held at Massey Wellington this weekend called ‘Heavy & Continuous Sacrifice – New Zealand and the Second World War’.
      It featured some very good NZ and overseas speakers over three days of presentations and discussions. Like earlier conferences organised by the New Zealand Military Historical Committee, it is expected that a volume of edited conference papers will be published. Look out for it in a year or two.
      
      6 2
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      February 16, 2020 9:12pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Txs…
        
        That’s all new stuff for me..
        
        just been reading the Crete chapter in thesis on Sir John White ..
        https://mro.massey.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10179/12010/02_whole.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
        
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        February 16, 2020 9:35pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Thanks mikey, I lost one family member and the goodness of another three including my father during the conflict.
        
        2 1
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        February 16, 2020 10:29pm
Johnboy

Dunno what she’s moaning about. She’s well out of it.
Looks like a bloody slum to landed gentry like me! 🙂
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/119475287/firsthome-buyer-i-was-told-cancel-or-live-in-a-state-housing-development
8 1
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February 16, 2020 5:16pm
- sooty
  
  Who would want to live there with all the bennies.
  
  5 0
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  February 16, 2020 6:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  ‘landed gentry’ sounds so much better than ‘Wainui peasantry’.
  
  4 7
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  February 16, 2020 6:28pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Supercilious arsehole sounds great as well but then many have said I lack you skill to insult people mikey. I am working on that shortcoming though.
    
    9 2
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    February 16, 2020 7:37pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  People buy into a house based on where they want to live. You look at the neighborhood, the type of people who live there, whether you are likely to get along with them and many other reasons. If the situation changes drastically after you sign an agreement to purchase then I can understand that they might be very unhappy, especially if this is your first purchase.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:17pm
Captain Mainwaring

Oh shit. Primitive canoe falls to bits and primitive occupants have to be rescued by evil white man technology.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/six-rescued-in-northland-after-waka-ama-broke-apart/ar-BB102CWo?ocid=spartandhp
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February 16, 2020 7:41pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  I’m sure the occupants would be most grateful and the rescuers would not have superior white mans technology on their minds.
  
  The latter, in fact, would be puzzled by your odd musings
  
  2 16
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  February 16, 2020 7:51pm
  - Jack5
    
    Stephie X talks about “odd musings”.
    
    Mmmm.
    
    13 1
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    February 16, 2020 8:35pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, he’s hardly alone on that front, is he?
      
      1 8
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      February 16, 2020 9:05pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “odd” is the word.
      
      5 2
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      February 16, 2020 9:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  How do you think the occupants were ‘primitive’?
  
  2 9
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  February 16, 2020 8:10pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Shit mikey, the clue is in the title …. “broke apart”.
    
    “Modern” man can build a canoe .. primitive not so much.
    
    So endith the lesson!
    
    8 2
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    February 16, 2020 9:05pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Although … we are here, primitive man not so much but ……….
      
      4 2
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      February 16, 2020 9:11pm
  - MrTips
    
    They vote Labour
    
    8 1
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    February 16, 2020 9:15pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The New Zealand Coastguard are unpaid volunteers whose only aims are to help save people that need help. They get called out at any time of the day or night, often in horrible conditions and get very little recognition for their efforts but could care less about the colour of the skin of the people they rescue.
  
  I admire them and also their employers who allow them to take off whenever their skills are required.
  
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  February 16, 2020 8:27pm
Hugh Pavletich

CORONAVIRUS … CONSIDERING THE EARLY DISRUPTION COSTS …

Forget Sars, the new coronavirus threatens a meltdown in China’s economy … Cary Huang … SCMP

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/3050629/forget-sars-new-coronavirus-threatens-meltdown-chinas-economy

… extracts …

… Thirdly, China’s rapid urbanisation means Chinese are now much more likely to travel domestically and abroad than two decades ago. This also means that when they stop travelling, the disruption is greater. The country has 288 million migrant workers, who account for about a third of China’s labour force. Many who travelled to rural homes for the holidays will be either unable or unwilling to return to work in the cities. Even if they are not frightened of the health consequences, there are travelling restrictions in force and many flights, rail services and long-distance buses have been halted. …

… Sixthly, for the millions of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) in China, the nightmare may be just beginning. Many small manufacturers fear foreign customers will shift orders to other countries due to disruptions in production and delivery. In a survey of 995 SMEs by academics from Tsinghua and Peking universities, 85 per cent said they would be unable to survive for more than three months under the current conditions. If the disruption goes on long enough, it could trigger a wave of bankruptcy among SMEs, which contribute more than 60 per cent of China’s GDP, 70 per cent of its patents and account for 80 per cent of jobs nationwide. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Coronavirus: 70 more cases on Japan cruise ship as China infections pass 68,000 … The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/coronavirus-70-more-cases-on-japan-cruise-ship-as-china-infections-pass-68000
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February 17, 2020 12:38am

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