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April 8, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 April 2020

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PhilBest

The latest BIG news on the COVID-19 front: the USA will start doing antibodies tests on random samples of the population. The alarmists have been in denial about the high proportion of asymptomatic infection with COVID-19 that has been discovered in early small-cohort tests, and the likely outcomes for rapid herd immunity development. Their models have been wrong by orders of magnitude as a result.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/04/cdc-launches-studies-to-get-more-precise-count-of-undetected-covid-19-cases/
In the absence of early random “population sample” tests (why don’t the pandemic experts have this as part of their plans?) we are obliged to wait until an antibodies test can be developed. Looks like that dreadful Ayn Rand Kapitalist dystopia, the USA, will get there first.
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April 8, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  Meanwhile Britain’s experts fronting the press have started to be grilled with the right questions, like why Germany’s death rate is so low (around 40 times below Italy’s at the same place on the curve).
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-must-learn-from-german-response-to-covid-19-says-whitty
  
  The experts are baffled, weaseling around on “testing” and ignoring the massive issues of local environment, air pollution, housing quality, urban density, and the housing and environment of the vulnerable elderly. Germany’s cities are actually some of the lowest density in the “old” world, certainly they have nothing close to Paris, London or Milan. Germany’s housing average age is several times lower. Their industries long since cleaned up their act with technology.
  
  Kiwibloggers will already understand why I am predicting that NZ will be an outlier that proves the argument on “environment”. Of all the countries in the world, we are the last one that needed containment measures above “Level 3”. Our curve peak will be a “fizzer”, disappointing all the control-freak ghouls salivating over the “body count” they were using as a scare tactic.
  
  The worst thing we could do, though, would be to get too casual, and let the virus cross over into the most vulnerable elderly, in poor communities where they do tend to “live in” with wider family. As long as we avoid that, we can expect LESS deaths from respiratory illness than in a normal time. Oh, and we should have tried to get the herd immunity over with before our own flu season actually arrived, another factor that the “experts” seem to be clueless about.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:01am
  - cmm
    
    There is no such thing as “Italy’s death rate”.
    
    Italy is not a homogeneous population. The death rate in the North (Lombardy etc) is about 10x the death rate in the South.
    
    It seems even comparisons within the same country are worthwhile.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:31am
    - PhilBest
      
      Yep, I forgot to say “Northern Italy” this time; thanks for that correction.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:40am
      - cmm
        
        I wonder whether there are differences within Germany which track the old East vs West German areas.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:43am
  - emmess
    
    Saw this graph yesterday.
    https://twitter.com/2019thenew1984/status/1246578845513404418/photo/1
    Very interesting, it seems that a lot of deaths with Coronavirus are being classified as deaths from Coronavirus.
    Don’t get me wrong, it is still a lot of extra deaths though.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:43am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Given that Coronavirus is never the cause of death, as it’s usually that the heart stops working, and that is caused by the strain when the lungs don’t work properly, it’s not surprising they’d say it was coronavirus killed them.
      It works on primary causative factor i.e. if they didn’t have the coronavirus, would they have died? Sure, there’s probably 10-20% you could argue about but it’s probably splitting hairs.
      
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      April 8, 2020 8:58am
      - fernglas
        
        No it’s not. The Italian Health Minister has said that Covid-19 was causative in 14% of the deaths attributed to the virus. The test is not “if they didn’t have the coronavirus, would they have died?” but rather whether the virus was a real and substantial cause of death. In most cases it was one or more comorbidities that killed people who contemporaneously had the virus.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:36am
      - PhilBest
        
        COVID-19 is odd in that it can be completely harmless to the majority – 60% of infections asymptomatic and yet a tiny minority die horribly. Even among the elderly, asymptomatic infection is high and so is mild illnes. People older than 100 have recovered.
        
        It is looking more and more like what kills the victims is another infection besides COVID-19 that is going the rounds; which infection might or might not have killed the patient without COVID-19. It ain’t exactly a news flash that people die during flu season. The fact that us and Aussie aren’t in our flu season, is an important reason why a very low death rate. It is also an important argument for getting our own herd immunity in place before our own flu season starts. Level 4 Lockdown was a mistake from day one.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:45am
      - cmm
        
        “It works on primary causative factor i.e. if they didn’t have the coronavirus, would they have died? Sure, there’s probably 10-20% you could argue about but it’s probably splitting hairs.”
        
        Or maybe: if they didn’t have shitty lungs and a preexisting heart condition would they have died?
        
        Well over 90% of Italians that have died with Covid in their system had significant preexisting conditions. Most had two or more preexisting conditions.
        
        If someone dies of a complication cause by diabetes we say they died of diabetes.
        
        However if they had diabetes and they died of almost identical complications while they had a Covid infection we say they died of Covid.
        
        Does that make any sense?
        
        That person with two or three preexisting conditions was already sitting on a greased perch. If Covid didn’t knock them off, it would have been flu or a cold or food poisoning or getting an infected toe.
        
        It is not 10-20% that is being quibbled about. It is 80-90%. Huge difference.
        
        This sounds to me more like an accounting problem than a medical problem.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:52am
      - krazykiwi
        
        It is looking more and more like what kills the victims is another infection besides COVID-19 that is going the rounds
        
        Beyond the social practices (kissing), crowded living, high average age, poor air quality .. and Wuhan import labour, the northern Italians have had yet another factor working against them. They have had an ongoing problem with Legionella.
        
        The managing director of a German environmental laboratory suspects that the inhabitants of the northern Italian region of Lombardy are particularly susceptible to viral infections such as Covid19 due to a notoriously high legionella contamination: „If the lungs are weakened by a viral infection, as in the current situation, bacteria have an easy job, can negatively influence the course of the disease and cause complications.“ In Lombardy, regional pneumonia outbreaks had already occurred in the past due to evaporation cooling systems contaminated with legionella.
        
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        April 8, 2020 12:01pm
      - cmm
        
        kk: re: Legionella. That’s a very interesting thing to add to the mix.
        
        That’s the thing isn’t it. Your body is under relentless attack every second of the day. Mostly you’re Ok because your immune system deals to the invaders promptly.
        
        Sometimes the buggers breach the walls and your system has to work a bit harder to sort it out. That is when you notice an infection etc.
        
        But sometimes two or three armies of these buggers attack you at once and overrun your defences. If you have Leagonella, diabetes, crap lungs and a touch of Covid then no wonder you fall off the perch.
        
        To then point the finger at Covid and say “he did it” is crazy.
        
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        April 8, 2020 12:42pm
  - Andrei
    
    In actual fact the overall death rate in the England and Wales is still pretty much on par with what is seen every year and lower that what it was during he 2018 flu epidemic.
    
    I have the actual provisional figures for the first three months of this year
    1,893 people died in England and Wales of respiratory ailments in the 1st week of January this year while 1,534 died of this cause in the last week of March this year – of those 1,534 – 539 of them were ascribed as being COVID-19 deaths
    
    3,075 died in the 2nd week of January 2018 of respiratory diseases, the height of that years flu pandemic
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:52am
    - PhilBest
      
      Yep, you’re onto it, and all over Europe, last year was a mild flu season which spared more vulnerable people than usual – so they’re still around for the next one that isn’t so mild.
      
      One of the arguments I’ve heard is that lockdown is worth it to give a few more weeks or months life to people are are going to die anyway this year. But a lot of them actually “didn’t die in 2019”. Sorry this sounds so harsh but we do cost-benefit analysis all the time to decide what to ban to “save lives”.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:48am
    - krazykiwi
      
      These annualised ILI/pneumonia datasets are the real evidence which, in my option, will show :
      
      – That a few locations have suffered higher than average YoY mortalities, but no single location increase will be matched by the number of reported Covid-19 deaths
      
      – That the vast majority of locations, even those his ‘high’ reported Covid-19 deaths, will have no statistically significant change in YoY mortalities
      
      – That many locations will show lower than average mortalities between March and September 2020 on account of people suffering life-threatening co-morbidities dying a few months earlier as a result Covid-19.
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:51am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    “Our curve peak will be a “fizzer”, disappointing all the control-freak ghouls salivating over the “body count” they were using as a scare tactic.”
    You might have been scared, most people weren’t – they were wary and wanted to avoid the full-blown Covid striking NZ. The curve peak being a fizzer is good news. But by all means, congratulate yourself for proving nothing.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:47am
    - PhilBest
      
      “Being scared” is supporting level 4 lockdown. NOT being scared, is recognising level 3, Sweden’s approach, as sufficient, and opposing the absurdly destructive level 4 policy approach, that is what people really should be scared of.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:51am
    - cmm
      
      Not much point in paying all the expense of a lockdown (money, jobs etc) if the DreamTeam shoot holes in the boat by letting over 4000 people walk straight in with no quarantine.
      
      Where are those 4000 people going? First thing they need are some groceries – off to the supermarkets.
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:57am
- Scott
  
  This from a Los Angeles doctor who has prescribed the malarial drug to his very sick coronavirus patients, in conjunction with zinc. Within 8-12 hours all of his very sick patients became symptom free.
  
  Probably worth the rest of the world checking out?!
  
  The only problem is that it is the same drug president Trump touted a while ago and was widely mocked for. What to do? I mean this might put Pres Trump in a good light? The mainstream media can’t be having that!
  
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/doctor-prescribing-hydroxychloroquine-says-patients-coronavirus-became-symptom-free-within-8-12-hours-video/
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:33am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I think most of the concern has been due to the high likelihood of adverse side effects, i.e. you could potentially kill 1 in 5 of the people you give it to. Albeit, if you need the drug its quite possible you’d die anyway, but doctors are hesitant to do harm.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:00am
    - cmm
      
      Why? Malarial drugs have been used for a long time by millions of people.
      
      Some are routinely administered to soldiers going into malarial areas. Hand them out to the whole battalion.
      
      Sure they have some side effects, but typically very mild and nothing like heart drugs or so. These are some of the most well understood drugs on the planet.
      
      Doctors are well versed in the cost/benefit analysis of side effects vs therapeutic value. They do that all the time.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:34am
      - Harlequin
        
        Correct. I took Paludrine during my 2 year tour of Malaysia and Vietnam. We also used Dapsone for a short period to counter a particularly virulent form of Malaria.
        Dapsone is actually prescribed for Leprosy but was foudn to be effective against Malaria as well. It probably worked well for both as at the age of 73 I can jump up and down and bits don’t fall off.
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:22am
      - cmm
        
        Oh, sorry Gollieb.
        
        New research by the TDS academy has proven that antimalarial drugs became very dangerous about three weeks ago.
        
        “We don’t know why, but this previously safe drug is now dangerous and unproven. Its use should be eliminated forthwith.”
        
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        April 8, 2020 12:01pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The comments have all been political. Sensible Doctors worldwide have affirmed the standard anti-malaria regime as safe and effective. It was first noticed because of the populations where it was in use had different response rates.
      
      Medicines are commonly re-purposed. These days Pharma hates it because it destroys profit opportunities.They want every single use patentable.
      I have a simple balm using ancient oils which I designed as a basic skin care antiseptic/healer–users have discovered how effective it is against eczema and psoriasis.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:39am
      - PhilBest
        
        I used to be skeptical about Big-Pharma conspiracy theories but the older I’ve got the more I see things how you just described.
        
        Here’s a good example: Guaifenesin. It’s a very old, very harmless anti-expectorant drug. It had actually fallen into disuse because better anti-expectorants had come along. But a researcher in the USA discovered that it had slow, gradual mitigation effects for some chronic pain conditions; and a manufacturer proceeded to satisfy supply chains new demand with abundant cheap product. It was uncontrolled and you could mail-order it, a large bottle of hundreds of tablets cost about twenty bucks.
        
        Then in NZ Pharmac decided to put it on the “controlled drugs” list, following which it become solely available from an NZ compounder at a retail price of – wait for it – a buck a tablet! If you want an illustration of how crony, rentier capitalism works, versus free markets, that’s it.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:57am
      - stewmar
        
        I have a simple balm using ancient oils which I designed as a basic skin care antiseptic/healer–users have discovered how effective it is against eczema and psoriasis.
        
        What is it? I have psoriasis
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:31am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I can’t run commercials here, but what I make can be seen on rubiton.co.nz
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:29am
    - RoboRob
      
      My understanding is the drug involved has been around forever, plentiful and is very cheap to manufacture / purchase. It also has the benefit of being about as safe as any drug can be. Certainly this is the first I have seen of it having a 20% death rate.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:40am
    - Ed Snack
      
      That’s easily dealt with though, HCL has a widely documented set of side effects and as a result a set of “do not prescribe” guidelines exist. Use those guidelines.
      
      It is unfortunate hat a lot of the same ailments that make COIVID-19 additionally hazardous are also on that list of guidelines. For example, HCL is well known to increase the risk of heart arrhythmias and should not be used in people where that poses additional risk, like COPD etc.
      
      HCL plus antibiotic plus Zinc isn’t a wonder cure and isn’t suitable for all; there are studies that show it has little affect on at least some groups of patients. But right now it seems to be helping some and there’s nothing better available – at least until other therapies like antibodies or exotic anti-virals like Remdisvir become widely available. Use it where it doesn’t expose the patients to unreasonable additional risk, and at the very worst it will probably have a positive placebo effect.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:42am
    - Local Miller
      
      The risks and side effects of Hydroxychloroquine are either minimal or related specifically to high doses and taking the drug for an extended period.
      Short term risks:
      skin rashes, especially those made worse by sunlight
      feeling sick (nausea) or indigestion
      diarrhoea
      headaches
      bleaching of the hair or mild hair loss
      tinnitus (ringing in the ears)
      visual problems.
      There’s a small risk that hydroxychloroquine can damage the retina. This increases with long-term use and higher dosage. We are talking about usage in the range of a year and longer here.
      
      This is a well known and very safe drug for short term use, so there is no reason (other than TDS) for this not be be prescribed.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:54am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Your should see the list of possible side affects of most prescribed drugs, like aspirin, paracetamol, ibruprophen….
        It’s always a compromise.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:27am
      - cmm
        
        Yup, taking my various heart drugs every day is like doing a special forces assault course.
        
        Every time they tweak one, they worry if it might impact another. Lots of muttering about everyone is different and responds differently. Phone this number if your BP does up.
        
        Malarial drugs in the Army: Platoon, stand in a row and take one each. Some of you might feel a bit thirsty and you might find you get a bigger erection. Pity the Sheila’s at home eh?
        
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        April 8, 2020 12:09pm
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      cmm I make a point of using my real name. Many people, you included, have restorted to name calling by deliberately changing my name.
      
      It’s childish, and stupid. I used to get that kind of nonsense in the playground at school. Admittedly, I feel often in this place that I’m back in Standard one again, with all the childish nonsense.
      
      But seriously, is it really necessary to call people names because you disagree with them?
      
      Opthalmological reactions.
      Cardiac arrest
      Cardiac failure
      Cardiomyopathy
      Endocarditis
      Myocarditis
      Haematological reactions
      Neurological and Neuromuscular reactions.
      
      References
      Rodriguez-Caruncho C, Bielsa Marsol I. 2014. Antimalarials in dermatology: mechanism of action, indications, and side effects. Actas Dermosifiliograficas 105(3): 243–252.
      Sanofi-Aventis NZ Ltd. 2014. Plaquenil Data Sheet. URL: http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/p/Plaqueniltab.pdf (accessed 30 July 2015).
      Tonnesmann E, Kandolf R, Lewalter T. 2013. Chloroquine cardiomyopathy — a review of the literature. Immunopharmacology and Immunotoxicology 35(3): 434–442.
      Yogasundaram H, Putko BN, Tien J, et al. 2014. Hydroxychloroquine-Induced Cardiomyopathy: Case Report, Pathophysiology, Diagnosis and Treatment. Canadian Journal of Cardiology 30: 1706–1715.
      Medsafe. 2010. Drug-induced QT prolongation and Torsades de pointes — the facts. Prescriber Update 31(4): 27–29. URL: http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/PUArticles/DrugInducedQTProlongation.htm (accessed 6 Aug 2015).
      
      My source is that well known hive of Trump Derangement Syndrome suffers, Medsafe.
      
      Tell me about your source.
      
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      April 8, 2020 3:37pm
      - cmm
        
        How did I call you names? I thought I called you Gotlieb.
        
        Your claim that this drug would kill one out of every 5 treatments is ridiculous hyperbole the kind of fake news that can get people killed.
        
        This is not some new experimental unproven drug.
        
        This drug was approved in 1969 and has been in use for 50 years. A very dangerous and unpredictable drug would have been pulled a long time ago.
        
        But don’t worry, even Democrats are now saying the drug can be used, so the Orange Man Bad people seem to be realising how silly their position was.
        
        Of course there are possible side effects and side effects on the data sheets list all of them, although they are extremely unlikely and the drug is well understood after 50 years of use.
        
        Clearly a person administering the drug is aware of the side effects and does a cost vs benefit analysis just as they do when administering any drug (many of which are far less understood and far less predictable). Doing this with a drug that has been used for 50 years, and is well understood, is relatively straight forward.
        
        I see I typed Gollieb in error. I would not get too upset about that and think it was an intended slur. It was an innocent typing error (actually caused by a heart medication I am on). However, if you are losing sleep over that I apologise, it was not deliberate.
        
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        April 8, 2020 4:15pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Apology accepted.
        
        BTW I didn’t say it WOULD kill 1 in 5. Damn, I really need to quote my sources more often. I said POTENTIALLY kill 1 in 5. I’d gotten the quote from an article that talked about how the people that were most likely to be considered for hydroxychloroquine (hope I spelled that right) are the most likely to have adverse side effects. It was probably on CNN or Guardian so you’d likely refute the comment. Anyway, that was where I was coming from.
        
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        April 8, 2020 7:56pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Of course, check it out, I can’t see why it puts Trump in a good or bad light – certainly not his discovery, he simply touted it as you say.
    He still has the ‘maybe one,’ problem.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:52am
- Than
  
  why don’t the pandemic experts have this as part of their plans?
  
  That’s easily enough answered; few if any other dangerous viruses have nearly as many asymptomatic cases. That’s the really insidious thing about this coronavirus, and what makes containing it so difficult.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:23am
  - cmm
    
    How many asymptomatic flu cases are there?
    
    If you talk to someone with flu, then a few days later you get a wee sniffle for a day or two, then you were an asymptomatic flu case.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:37am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I suspect I may have had it–then again I may not have: trivial but warning affects. I’m not out and about and the others in the household are all more robust than me. That was over two weeks ago. Tempus fugit.
      
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      April 8, 2020 2:10pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Latest I’ve seen is that people are typically only infectious for 1-2 days before they start to display symptoms, even if only mild symptoms (such as muscular aches, a slight cough, maybe a slight fever, say). Spreading by completely asymptomatic patients who do not go on to display at least some symptoms seems to be in the “not yet proven” category.
    
    This may of course change if widespread testing of either viral presence or antibodies shows a significant presence in the community and some of those otherwise symptom free cases can be tied into community spread onwards.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:45am
  - PhilBest
    
    Fair comment but we pay experts to anticipate this kind of thing surely?
    
    Seeing every small-cohort study that actually happened, DID show high asymptomatic incidence, why didn’t all the experts know this within days or hours, and adjust their policy advice accordingly? I’m not an expert and I found out about it without any professional networks tipping me off.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:01am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s strange us amateurs seem to have a better sense than experts.
      
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      April 8, 2020 2:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        How likely do you really think that is to be true?
        
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        April 8, 2020 2:59pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        No. You amateurs simply have a much smaller sample set, usually one, and from that baised information you extrapolate spurious results.
        
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        April 8, 2020 3:39pm
- thirteenstars
  
  The US is doing just fine.
  
  I was told the other day: you’d think the US would be doing better with all they’ve got to work with. I asked what that meant and was given the relative infection and death numbers for other countries. UK, 50,000, US, 300,000. Deaths; UK, 5,000, US, 10,000. Like it was some sporting event.
  
  Are people really that dumb, I thought, using absolute numbers as comparisons? Why haven’t you adjusted for population? I asked. Never even occurred to them. They really had no idea what the populations of these countries were.
  
  This is the level of analysis our fellows are often working with. Actually, it’s how it’s presented on the six o’clock news, and since the six o’clock news is the opiate of the people, well…
  
  The messy (read:decentralised) federal system in the US is throwing up solutions and data that no other place on Earth can match. They’ll be back at work and thriving while we’re still in perpetual shutdown desperately trying to avoid death number 4, sacrificing our economy and our civil rights upon the altar of political ambition.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:36am
- Ian Boag
  
  Antibody testing. From an Economist article today about the virus in the UK. Go figure ….
  
  As the disease spreads through the population, another sort of testing will become increasingly important: for antibodies, whose presence shows whether someone has ever had the virus. The government has promised a test will arrive soon, but Britons should not hold their breath.
  
  Antibody testing is particularly susceptible to false positives and false negatives, so needs to be carefully validated. A bunch of Chinese companies produce antibody testing kits, and have been churning them out. They are in high demand. The British government is in negotiations to buy millions of them, but business sources say that countries that demand less validation data than Britain—such as Russia, Spain and the Gulf states—have been snapping them up. The swifter countries risk getting dodgy tests; the slower ones risk getting hold of kits too late.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:30am
  - cmm
    
    Antibody testing is the ONLY valid way to do randomised trial testing to gauge the infection rates in the whole population and to do predictive modelling etc.
    
    Antigen testing is almost useless for statistical/population modeling purposes. It is really only useful as a case by case diagnostic tool.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:42am
    - Ian Boag
      
      True. And I upticked your response ..
      
      Suppose the false result rate is like 5% or so. So if we do a heap of tests and find the percentage of immune people it is probably reasonably accurate. But for an individual, not so …..
      
      Antibody testing is also a whole lot cheaper and simpler than antigen testing. If only it were more sensitive (ther are issues there too) and more specific … 🙁
      
      Personally I think we should be in the queue for whatever (imperfect kit) is around right now, but I’m really just another ignorant sideline person.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:56am
      - cmm
        
        False positives and false negatives are ONLY problematic in diagnostic settings. If we want to know if, specifically, Ian has Covid then the positive or negative are important and we need either a retest or a secondary way to test.
        
        But this is nothing new for the medics to work with. All tests (bowel cancer screening etc) produce false positives and false negatives. It is not an excuse not to do them.
        
        For statistics purposes false positives and false negatives are even less of a problem, so long as we know the false positive and false negative rates.
        
        For these purposes, you just multiple the number of positives by correction factors to get the true positives and true negatives.
        
        Again, nothing new here. Statisticians have been doing that since forever.
        
        So for PriNZess to raise false positives and negatives as a reason is a complete bloody lie.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:36am
      - cmm
        
        Just a bit extra on the insensitivity of the antibody testing. Again, if this gives false positives and false negatives then these can generally be corrected for.
        
        Gathering the info is only useful if it is going to be used in a meaningful way.
        
        Since we are being driven less by data and more by idealogy, the testing is maybe just theatre.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:39am
      - Ian Boag
        
        PriNZess to raise false positives and negatives as a reason is a complete bloody lie.
        
        If you say so – she is not making it up – the UK pulled the pin on a multi-milion stick order for this sort of reason.
        
        I don’t think we are disagreeing about anything much here. AFAICT the false result data is pretty spotty – ie all over the place – as far as % goes. Meaningful correction factors seem to be some distance down the pipe ….
        
        If you want to do it yourself go to haierthermometer.com and you can buy a 5-box of antibody blood sticks for USD75 … plus freight I suppose. A bit like the do-it-yourself pregnancy tests. I think they sell a 25 box too.
        
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        April 8, 2020 1:30pm
      - cmm
        
        There is a difference between a test that produces a known number of positives and negatives, but is still useful, and a completely broken test which is no better than a random number generator.
        
        It seems that some of the resent offerings (like maybe the one the UK cancelled) are less reliable. Depending on what they want to use them for, they might still be good for statistical testing even if they are poor for diagnostic testing.
        
        If NZ wants to do statistical testing then it would make sense to get in the queue as you say.
        
        They could still use the antigen testing for diagnostic purposes if the antibody tests are not good enough.
        
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        April 8, 2020 1:56pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Dig a little more – ask Mr G about “antibody test kit production” and see if you can end up not confused.
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:35am
krazykiwi

Welcome to the Labour Government’s Covid-19 Helpline. Please note that this call may be recorded for staff training purposes, and that we’re tracking your cellphone for police operational purposes.

You will need to be ready with your name, address, email, drivers’ licence, passport details, and importantly, with details of your next of kin.

Please choose from the following options:

☎ If you’ve encountered one of our MPs swimming, mountain-bike riding, boar hunting, skydiving, cage fighting, or chainsaw juggling then please press 1. We’ll have a quiet word with the MP in question as their peers are probably keen to learn about exercise options which are open to them. Thanks for sharing.

☎ If you are only a little bit frightened about the Covid-19 but would like to become properly terrified, then press 2. Our Zoom-bot will call you back with a video mashup of some of the very worst global scare stories from distant countries, each narrated by Jacinda so you can feel better about being kept under house arrest here in New Zealand.

☎ If you are experiencing emotional, physical or domestic trauma, or you’ve lost your business or life savings, or you are having suicidal thoughts as a result of being under house arrest, then press 3. The Labour government all about kindness, and a kind person will soon be on the line to tell you how to pull yourself together.

☎ If you’ve found Winston Peters, please press 4. We’ll give you instructions on how to sober him up, crate him up, and courier him back to Wellington.

☎ If you’ve recently arrived in New Zealand, welcome! You’ll notice that no one is home. Press 5 and we’ll email you a pamphlet on fun things to do while you’re here. We’d be ever so grateful if you would cough into your elbow if needed. Thanks so much. Enjoy your stay.

☎ If you are inquiring about our eBay listing “New Zealand Closing Down Sale”, then please press 6. 感谢您的关注！Gǎnxiè nín de guānzhù!

☎ If you are a serving police officer having paramilitary-style saluting reflexes or unusual marching inclinations, then press 7. We’ll play some stirring music with a voiceover from Andy Coster who will outline how you can constructively channel these aggressions.

☎ If you are applying for membership of the Jacinda Fan Club, then press 8 for good news. Since the closure of Woman’s Day, New Zealand Woman’s Weekly and The Listener we have many new vacancies and we’re taking new applications. Note that we have no stock of Jacinda life-size cardboard cut-outs until tomorrow when our officials will designate cardboard cut-out making as an essential service.

☎ If you are concerned about suspension of civil liberties, living in a police state, or even if your cat is stuck up a tree, then press 9 and wait a few minutes. A team of friendly, uniformed liaison officers will be at your doorstep in no time.

☎ To hear these options again with Jacinda doing the voice-over, press 0.
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April 8, 2020 8:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You win the internet for today.
  Stolen, and going on Facebook – thanks
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:18am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Please post it to Cindy’s page.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I don’t visit that cesspit – make me throw up
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:08am
- PhilBest
  
  Gold! Sorry I beat you to the top of the thread today!
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:20am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I have another tomorrow 🙂
    
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    April 8, 2020 5:26pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Pffft – Puff pieces are coming thick and fast about Jacinda’s leadership – Washington Post, Alistair Campbell, Audrey Not So Young…. You will never win bro. TV1 has turned into full time Jacinda propaganda machine.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:09am
  - Ruawai
    
    But JA is just a facade, there is no one behind her calm kindness and smiles which means she is not a leader if she doesn’t create a competent team.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:35am
  - Tricati
    
    Just wait until the pay check doesn’t arrive then we will see how popular she is.
    
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    April 8, 2020 11:06am
  - Durden
    
    The WAPO story will be a plant. The author is a Kiwi lady who works for the paper and I think happens to be in NZ presently. I am sure some labour publicity types were and remain friendly with her. So easy to do. WAPO is behind paywall so no links.
    
    But here is fangirl Audrey Young’s extract.
    “Fifield, the newspaper’s Beijing bureau chief who is back in New Zealand for a time..”
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323270
    
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    April 8, 2020 11:32am
- oldpark
  
  @krazykiwi 8.00am
  One more . Talk about being kept in the dark and fed bullshit . Latest news coming out of Question time NZs Parliament which runs Three times a week . Broadcast on the PARLIAMENT CHANNEL SKY 86 plus a few other lesser outlets .Runs between 10 am to 1.00 pm . It is being chaired by NZS Leader of the opposition Simon Bridges. It is about the state of the Nation and what is really happening and what lies ahead for all of us .
  Go figure this one . Many requests for it to be repeated daily as not everyone can see or hear it at that time . The requests keep getting turned down Trevor Mallard who is afraid of the truth and is hell bent on keeping the facts and figures telling the true position of NZs future in the here and now.
  Seems NZs are once more being gamed by the type of regime selected by Winston Peters . A bloody indictment of bloody power crazy sickos.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:34am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep, and the MSM are doing an abysmal show of reporting and analysing the material being covered in each 3 hour session.
    
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    April 8, 2020 11:42am
  - Sacha
    
    If you are on FB, it is live broadcast. You can watch it on Simon Bridge’s page from 10am, or on the FB LIVE ‘channel’.
    
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    April 8, 2020 12:04pm
  - bruceavon
    
    No sure why this idea the Epidemic Response Select Committee is hard to find or hidden persists. I watch it everyday on Stuffs main page. It’s on the herald and newshub. I watched the recording if the one I missed last week on Vimeo. ?? I think they are all online there. Yesterday’s one is.
    The problem is apart from people who are interested like me, no one watches it. And the press barely report it. no wonder Simon goes to Wellington.
    
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    April 8, 2020 2:47pm
MT_Tinman

In every free country world wide the leadership has stated they are working to give their citizens freedom of movement as soon as possible.

Every country in the free world except for one.

I wonder which that one country is?
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April 8, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  The one that always had the least risk from the pandemic, too…
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:21am
  - hullkiwi
    
    …and despite what the leader proclaims.
    
    They only went hardest on locking down the nation – with a form of mandatory house self isolating house arrest.
    
    All other measures have been feeble (or late) after being bounced into them.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:43am
- Simon
  
  Aust is at their cov19 alert level 3 with slightly fewer infection cases per million than NZ. Aust is also ahead of NZ in the Wuhan virus curve.
  
  Aust economy hurt bad but the Ardern mong destroyed NZ’s economy.
  
  Further with Ardern’s home detention NZ will have higher problem rates than Aust in areas of mental health issues, domestic violence & suicide.
  
  Ardern has handled the Wuhan virus poorly thats bad enough watch her continue to mong up the economy after the Wuhan virus passes.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:31am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Simon even worse, after doing what they have done to the economy, they do not have a plan for when we come out of lockdown.
    
    The only plan I’ve heard, is Robno talking about councils having “shovel ready projects.” As if, this idea will soak up the unemployed restaurant workers and bankrupt shop keepers@
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:46am
    - cmm
      
      Robbo could sure do with some shovel time.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:39am
    - PhilBest
      
      And I can imagine what those shovel ready projects might be. Trams, bike lanes, pedestrian-only repurposing….
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:03am
    - chukar
      
      So now councils are an unemployment agency?
      
      What will that do to rate freezes?
      
      Not at all good for ratepayers who are trying to keep their PRODUCTIVE businesses afloat
      
      Chukar
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:35am
  - DeepBlue
    
    With all the nationalised motels/hotels, AirBnB, investment property etc everyone will get a state sponsored home now and a bedroom to themselves.
    
    In election year she has managed to:
    – eradicate homelessness and poverty in one stroke according to her measures
    – reduce flu occurrence and respiratory problems
    – reduce pollution
    – create local communities
    – introduce UBI
    – solve traffic congestion
    – reduce drownings
    – introduce home schooling
    
    Anything else?
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:04am
- kowtow
  
  In the only country that assists race based illegal road blocks.
  
  Spreading faster than the virus.
  
  ‘Ngāti Manawa has become the latest iwi to set up a checkpoint and restrict access to its lands in the central North Island.’
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/413695/ngati-manawa-set-up-checkpoints-due-to-lockdown-rule-breakers
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:28am
PhilBest

Meanwhile the Germans are so confident they’ve got the right setup to handle this, they are bringing all their own people home from wherever they are stranded around the world.
https://www.eturbonews.com/569477/ten-lufthansa-jumbo-jets-to-evacuate-german-tourists-from-new-zealand/
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April 8, 2020 8:01am
- kevn
  
  @Phil… and you can bet they are putting them in quarantine, not just asking them nicely to go into voluntary self isolation.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:32am
2ic

Have a look at the following interactive COVID-19 growth chart:

[Mod Note: The following link has been published again and works. See 2ic’s comment @ about 08:25]

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?country=Australia&country=Canada&country=China&country=France&country=Germany&country=India&country=Iran&country=Italy&country=Japan&country=New Zealand&country=Pakistan&country=South Korea&country=Spain&country=Switzerland&country=US&country=United Kingdom

It shows new cases in New Zealand flattening off at the same time as they have in Australia. Australia have not gone into a complete lockdown to achieve this, instead implementing social distancing rules and restrictions on public gatherings.

So, Australia have been just as effective as NZ at combating COVID-19, and they haven’t had to impose the same restrictions on their way of life and damage to their economy as we have. It seems to be working too:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/new-covid-19-cases-in-australia-could-disappear-july-if-citizens-abide-social-distancing-rules-modelling-suggests

Perhaps we should be following Australia’s lead here? Something that wouldn’t go down well with our ‘world leader’.
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April 8, 2020 8:02am
- 2ic
  
  Can a Mod fix my URL above? It stops after 3 lines. I’m not sure if I can make a tidier hyperlink using a short label on this forum, but I’ll try the full URL again:
  
  https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?country=Australia&country=Canada&country=China&country=France&country=Germany&country=India&country=Iran&country=Italy&country=Japan&country=New Zealand&country=Pakistan&country=South Korea&country=Spain&country=Switzerland&country=US&country=United Kingdom
  
  [Mod. Sorry, but when the comment is approved for posting, the process for some reason corrupts the link. It has done the same again here.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Use tinyurl.com
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:02am
    - Jack5
      
      I made a similar mistake in a link with a long address I put in a post recently.
      
      Someone kindly pointed out that all you need for the link is everything up to (or even including) the question mark. The shortened link works.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:05am
  - 2ic
    
    The long URL link I originally posted cuts off after 3 lines so misses NZ and some other countries, so it only works properly if you copy and paste the entire URL. Here is a shorter URL that excludes some other countries and should work properly:
    https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?country=Australia&country=France&country=Germany&country=India&country=Italy&country=New+Zealand&country=Spain&country=US&country=United+Kingdom
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:56am
- PhilBest
  
  Our own flattening off is extremely likely something that was going to happen anyway. We’ve certainly had this virus from as early as Italy had it; don’t kid us that we don’t have inbound arrivals from China just like everyone else or more so.
  
  It always was going to be 1/100 as deadly here compared to Italy. Germany is now proving to be 1/40 as deadly as Italy. And we have even cleaner air, even lower density cities, it isn’t our flu season, and our vulnerable elderly aren’t living anywhere near Queen St or Cuba St and certainly not in 100 year old stone apartment blocks on narrow urban streets, with no heat pumps.
  
  “Experts” should surely already get the importance of factors like these as part of their knowledge? Or they should surely be able to work it out as soon as I can without actually being an expert?
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:28am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “We’ve certainly had this virus from as early as Italy had it.”
    
    Quite right Phil.
    
    I know of a wedding in the USA at Christmas attended by a NZer and the entire party got a bad case of the flu. No-one knew about Covid-19 back then, but they had all the symptoms.
    
    If you may recall, one of Jacindas reasons for not doing early random testing, including of people returning from overseas, was to avoid false positives. So either they simply did not have the resources, or there would be positives, indicating it was already here, but people’s immune systems had conquered it.
    
    The thing with false positives is that you have to be testing in order to get them. And when you get them, then you do further testing to establish is this a true positive or why are we getting false positives.
    
    Can you imagine the govt IT team refusing to installing anti-virus software on computers in the Beehive on the basis they might get false positives. I don’t think so.
    
    I believe it did not suit the narrative to discover that Covid-19 was already here and being defeated by healthy immune systems., especially after researchers identified that the immune system defeated Covid-19 in the same way it defeated the annual flu every year.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:15am
    - PhilBest
      
      “… it did not suit the narrative…”
      
      Exactly. And just as with “climate scientists”, supposed experts – some of them – are in boots and all on the politics. Career advancement has somehow been based on political usefulness. I’ve certainly heard anecdotes from the recruitment process stage for bureaucracies, that support this suspicion.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:06am
    - cmm
      
      There were valid reason for not doing random testing, but that did not stop PriNZess from making up lies.
      
      That “false positives” bullshit was just blurbing some buzzwords to make it sound like she was knowledgeable.
      
      Antigen tests are useless for randomised population testing. Need antibody tests to get meaningful data. Antibody tests were not available at the time.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:48am
  - kloyd0306
    
    ….and yet the boffins at the Auckland City Council are gung-ho about their unitary plan to “condense” the city.
    
    Who would have thought that urban sprawl is our saviour?
    
    Build more roads, fewer bus lanes. Buses are bad for your health.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:53am
- Stu2
  
  Australia is being more effective at the moment – fewer new cases per capita than us
  
  We have a continual drip feed of extra cases associated with the clumps, wonder if our slow…… start to testing contributed to the spread of the clumps
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:32am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Oh look. We’ve started testing properties for Whitetail spiders. We are ramping up testing, doubling our testing team every week and posting results on line. Oh look, look at the hockystick curve of infected properties. 27,000 people WILL surely die from Whitetail spiders if we do not put everyone under house arrest.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:19am
  - PhilBest
    
    Exactly! At least our stats are transparent enough that we can tell this for ourselves. “New confirmed cases” are still happening relating to the Marist College cluster and the Queensland conference cluster. So we are STILL only just getting around to testing the people who were at those events!
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:08am
- KiWombat
  
  “Australia have been just as effective as NZ at combating COVID-19”
  
  Figures can distort the truth however – Australia has now 48 deaths, and they appear to be increasing on a daily basis. To suggest NZ’s covid plan is similar seems to ignore the death rate !
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:38am
  - tf78
    
    The last person that died in Aussie was 90 years old – I think most of their deaths have been fairly old. There have been a couple of younger ones though.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:35am
- Pete George
  
  New Zealand deaths: 1
  Australia deaths: 45
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:39am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Now 48 (as of this morning).
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:48am
    - 2ic
      
      hullkiwi, Pete George, KiWombat –
      Australia are just farther along their curve than NZ. First case in Australia was 25 Jan, whereas in NZ it was 28 Feb. To make a fair comparison we would need to check NZ deaths in about 5 weeks, multiply it by 5 to take into account the population difference, and see how that compares with Australia’s current 48 deaths.
      
      I’m making a note in my calendar to do this.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:47am
      - hullkiwi
        
        2ic, I agree, if playing with stats is relevant in a country with a small population is relevant.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:01am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        First case in Australia was 25 Jan, whereas in NZ it was 28 Feb.
        
        and that is very significant…folks kept flying into NZ from Australia’s centres of infection for over 1 month.
        
        We even had our politicians taking trips back & forth.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:51am
  - Simon
    
    It ain’t over yet. Also need to count NZs higher to come suicide rates compared to Aust given Ardern utterly collapsed the economy
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:52am
    - Pete George
      
      That’s an unknown – some people are more stressed, some are less stressed.
      
      The road toll and drowning should be down for a while.
      
      Some will have better nutrition not eating out and getting fast food but having time to cook healthier meals at home (but some will just switch to buying junk from supermarkets).
      
      Effects and health and death alongside Covid are big unknowns.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:11am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Killing off the economy and thousands of businesses was all worth it then. We should do it more often.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:15am
      - Pete George
        
        There’s obvious and serious effects on business and the economy, but that’s largely a separate issue to health impacts and death rates of Covid compared to other causes.
        
        On suicide rates specifically, is it known what the difference is between suicides from unemployment stress compared to suicides from employment and business stress?
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:39am
      - KiWombat
        
        Pete – that could create some interesting spin !
        
        JAG will no doubt take credit for a reduced death rate on our roads, but whether she advocates the China Virus as a solution to the otherwise increasing road toll, or the removal of tens of thousands of tourists in camper vans remains to be seen !
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:41am
      - Simon
        
        ”That’s an unknown – some people are more stressed, some are less stressed.“
        
        Utter garbage. Increase in suicides during recessions is well documented. NZ is in a depression
        
        The economic wreckage inflicted on NZ by Ardern with home detention will be far worse than the actual virus.
        
        They need some economic experts along with the health ones. Phil Twyford anit gonna cut it.
        
        Many people will die due to Ardern”s government appallingly handling of the economy ie the home detention
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:46am
      - Pete George
        
        The affect on the road toll is incidental but looks real.
        
        Deaths year to date (1 January to 7 April):
        2016: 95
        2017: 97
        2018: 113
        2019: 112
        2020: 88
        
        I looked last week and I don’t think this year’s toll has increased from then.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:53am
      - PhilBest
        
        Some medical experts are saying that the effects on the elderly, of lockdown, will be deadly in itself. The isolation, the anxiety, the deprivation of “use it or lose it” daily activity.
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:11am
      - Pete George
        
        “Increase in suicides during recessions is well documented.”
        
        This is much different to a ‘normal’ recession, there’s significantly different factors involved. I don’t think anyone can predict with any confidence the likely impact on suicide rates.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:31am
      - Durden
        
        Pete George @9:53 am.
        
        Aren’t you supposed to check road fatalities per X kms travelled ? Maybe you would get a different read then.
        
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        April 8, 2020 1:47pm
    - Morphyoss
      
      Simon it’s quite sad that you are sort-of hopeful suicide numbers will increase just to prove a political point.
      
      There is no clear evidence of this and also as pointed out a actual total death rates are likely to fall during this time, provided the virus doesn’t take hold.
      
      So far on that front, we’re doing quite well.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:45am
    - trout
      
      Richard Prebble’s opinion (from behind NBR paywall):
      ‘ I’ve been thinking the ship of state is heading straight for the rocks. The captain will not change direction because she says her only concern is the health of the passengers.
      The prime minister on TV ruled out making any change to the lockdown rules, saying, “a policy that sacrifices people in favour of supposedly a better economic outcome is a false dichotomy”.
      Jacinda Ardern was rejecting National Party leader Simon Bridges’ proposal that enterprises that can perform their business safely be allowed to re-open.
      When the government announced the ban on ‘non-essential’ business, it was Act leader David Seymour who said this was irrational, would do huge economic damage and not fight the virus. What constitutes essential are value judgements and not an objective test. The prime minister believes that daily newspapers are essential but not weekly magazines. She is wrong. The loss of the Listener is cultural vandalism.
      Seymour says to fight the virus we need an objective test: can the business be carried out safely? Can the business maintain social distancing? We are not any safer for banning those businesses but we are going to be a lot poorer. The Auckland Chamber of Commerce survey indicates a third of responders believe they will never re-open. How many of those businesses never needed to close?
      Every day the lockdown continues, business losses rise exponentially. With no income, the business must still pay wages, rent, interest on loans, etc. Air New Zealand demonstrates how fast even a profitable business with fixed costs becomes hopelessly insolvent.
      Ministers are in for a shock themselves. No one has higher fixed costs than the government. Tax revenues are about to plunge. GST has fallen off a cliff. Expenditure is going to rocket. We are heading for double-digit unemployment. Ministers will be amazed at how quickly the government’s ‘sound balance sheet’ becomes a sea of red.
      The Reserve Bank’s $30 billion of credit will disappear fast. It is not free money. It is a debt and all debt is a transfer of future income to today. Only if that debt permanently produces extra income can it compensate for the future loss. No one is pretending the $30b is a stimulus; it’s a necessary rescue package. We are $30b poorer.
      As the government is smashing the economy to save us from the virus, the world is going into a deep recession. If many businesses cannot re-open, a quick bounce back is not possible.
      This is why the prime minister’s statement “a policy that sacrifices people in favour of supposedly a better economic outcome is a false dichotomy” is so alarming.
      How is doing something safely sacrificing people? How can it fail to be a better economic outcome if more businesses stay open? A dichotomy is “a difference between two completely opposite ideas or things”. It is the prime minister who is claiming that health and the economy are completely separate.
      We will discover how the loss of employment, of people’s livelihood, of the dignity of work, is a health issue.
      There is an old saying in politics: “if you cannot ride two horses at once, why are you in the circus?” Politics is all about priorities, some of which are in conflict. It is never all one priority. Balancing those conflicting priorities is what politicians do.
      Governments all around the world are trying to fight Covid-19 without smashing their economies. The Australian government has been open about fighting the virus with the minimum of damage to the economy.
      There is no alternative mindset
      Our government has become locked into a TINA (there is no alternative) mindset. Ministers think the only way to fight Covid-19 is to hammer the economy. There are always alternatives. In Taiwan, it is business as usual, schools are open and the country’s Covid-19 cases are a third of New Zealand’s.
      We need clear thinking. Is the government’s goal ‘eradication’? If it is, we are in for months of lockdowns. Eradication is almost impossible because we have too many idiots. Who thinks the drug dealers have locked down or addicts are no longer seeking a fix? The government needs to admit eradication is not realistic.
      If the goal is ‘flattening the curve’ then we have succeeded. As I write this there are just 13 cases in hospital. Every day last year the road toll resulted in hospitals admitting more people and more patients to intensive care and, yes, more deaths.
      The advantage of having no goal is the government can declare success whenever it likes. The longer they wait, the harder it is to stop. Wars are hard to stop even when it is meaningless to carry on because how can leaders justify the losses. This ‘war’ on the virus is no different.
      A way to start to unwind the lockdown would be to permit business that can be done safely.
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:22am
  - Tricati
    
    If you check/compare number of cases and deaths on a per capita basis how does it look.
    Last time I saw the comparisons, other deaths, we were the same as OZ.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:31am
- igm
  
  We could not have had a disaster with a worse bunch of losers in the chair than these leeching Labourites.
  Unions are loving ever minute of it . . . seeing hard working business owners struggling.
  Once again, we see the vile and envy of our left-wing communist-inspired PTPM.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:20am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You’re overlooking the obvious the measures have the support of every party in Parliament.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:14am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Play school TV1 breakfast.
Don’t drink!
People are starting to drink earlier in the day. Kids see it as normalising. What?? Drinking is not normal?
Fuck off you socialist tee totaler control freak. Get out of our lives. Getting tired of being treated like a 7 year old
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April 8, 2020 8:05am
- igm
  
  Guess where the beneficiaries’ $25 per week leech money goes!
  Bet liquor sales are through the roof.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:08am
  - tui47
    
    They are and sadly I cannot find decent gin on any online sites. The amount of ‘sold out’ stock is amazing.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:57am
    - Tall Man
      
      Whisky & More.
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:45am
- Humble Capitalist
  
  What you need to do is get back on to the kindergarten mat for daily story time at 1pm and 3pm
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Which wine to accompany your breakfast?
  https://winefolly.com/wine-pairing/wine-for-breakfast/
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:10am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    I have read some of the suggestions and can’t wait to try at least some but keeping things simpler I prefer a nice Sauvignon/Semillion, chilled to 12 degrees (C) and served in a high-ball glass to accompany my peanut butter on toast.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:23am
    - PhilBest
      
      I can’t imagine peanut butter on toast being accompanied by anything other than a good Port…
      
      24 0
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      April 8, 2020 8:30am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        good point! I prefer Drambuie with my honey on toast! Cuts through the sweetness nicely, and takes the edge off the day….particularly when the kids get bored 😉
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:20am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I’m a proponent of the idea that a good medium to sweet Riesling goes perfectly with any breakfast. Chose any of NZ’s excellent Rieslings from North Canterbury, Nelson, Martinborough, or from Milton Vineyard in Gisborne, but leave those Otago pretenders alone. 😉
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:54am
      - Biscuit
        
        Phil likes peanut butter?
        
        Oh, that’s it, he’s now stricken off my will!
        
        On an aside, Moi and the partner are now huge fans of an Irish Coffee to begin the day.
        
        Our little one, happily, doesnt get to see our decline into alcholism – he’s 33 and in Toronto!
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:02am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Until yesterday (after reading Odakyu-sen’s request on YSB) I had no idea that anyone but an alcoholic imbibed at breakfast.
      
      I think he’s still wanting a decent pairing with his Muesli.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:25am
      - MT_Tinman
        
        Not a muesli man myself but I would suggest a muscat might be the tonic there.
        
        A nice Irish whisky to sip with the coffee after would round the meal off while waiting for morning tea.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:37am
      - tf78
        
        Bailey’s would be perfect!
        
        5 0
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        April 8, 2020 9:38am
      - Sideoiler
        
        I would recomend this to him.
        https://www.moabeer.com/store/vogels-toasted-ale-collab-brew-12-x-440ml-cans
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:02am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        I’m a light drinker. I don’t start drinking till it’s light. ?
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:43am
    - Jade Warrior
      
      Sauvignon-Semillon is a style of wine I would like to see a lot more of in New Zealand. It’s a very common wine style in Australia where Sauvignon Blanc grapes seldom stand up well on their own and Semillon is added to give the wines more flavour and depth.
      
      But here in New Zealand, Sauvignon Blanc is the calling card of our white wine industry so the vast majority of our wine makers see no reason to add Semillon to the mix. But the few who do – most notably Pegasus Bay and, more recently, Poppies in Martinborough – are producing spectacular examples of the Sauvignon/Semillon style.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:24am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Cloudy Bay has always been around 12-15% Semillon. I think the mix has to be >15% before it must be declared on the label in NZ, so any wine labelled Sauvignon Blanc could legitimately contain up to that amount of any other white grape juice. Though typically only Semillon is used to improve the expression of the wine.
        
        A straight Semillon can also be interesting though it is pretty rare these days in NZ, though I think a few Australian vineyards still produce it. In France Semillon is the base for Sauternes, a style also very rare in NZ though we make very good sweet Rieslings.
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:56am
  - G152
    
    CINDY DOES A PRETTY LOUD WHINE
    
    37 1
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    April 8, 2020 8:58am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Cindy does not need wine or any other alcohol to hijack her dopamine and make her addicted. The dopamine she is getting from the power she has got is just as addictive. And make no mistake, she will be addicted.
      
      That is why dictators and power mongers can never release control. They may as well be controlled by a parasitical Goa’uld (courtesy Stargate series), because it is almost an impossible habit to kick.
      
      But comrade Little, is the real addict.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:00am
  - Local Miller
    
    My go to lockdown breakfast in Grilled Salmon pre flavored with Lemon, Paprika and Chili, served with cheese sauce. Washed down with a good Riesling.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:15am
- timmydevo
  
  It’s good to know you’re watching Breakfast TV so we don’t have to. Kiwiblog thanks you for your sacrifice.
  
  Let me buy you a beer.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:26am
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

I am growing a beard as my silent protest against failed transmission models. Epidemiologists models are as much of a sham and delusion as global warming models.

LET MY PEOPLE GO JACINDA!
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April 8, 2020 8:06am
- PhilBest
  
  The modelling of the deadliness is an even worse failure than the modelling of the transmission. I hope the public wakes up to the fact that global warming models are no better.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:31am
  - hullkiwi
    
    It can’t be any worse than Robbo’s moselling on what was going to happen to the NZ economy.
    
    26 1
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    April 8, 2020 8:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Be warned…
  The Covid-19 statistics amongst Israel’s and Britain’s Haredim are high.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/calls-to-seal-off-ultra-orthodox-areas-adds-tension-to-israels-virus-response
  
  However, some kosher & halal masks may be available by the time your beard reaches your chest.
  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/covid-19-israel-produce-special-masks-accommodate-beards-200406091352394.html
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:33am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Wonder if this could be partially genetic, I’ve seen for example, research that suggests that people with A type blood are infected more easily and suffer worse symptoms than those with type O. Could also be cultural and associated with a failure to self isolate effectively.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:56am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Well, as a A- that’s pretty depressing reading.
      
      1 1
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      April 8, 2020 3:48pm
- JackRabbit
  
  The disappointment in the Covid-19 death curve almost matches the disappointment in the Trees planted curve, and new Kiwibuild houses.
  
  All three suffer from false stats. Covid-19 – well you know the false stats – everything from reporting all deaths as Covid-19 deaths, ignoring built up areas, ignoring contributing pollution – the list is long.
  
  Trees – misrepresentation by later including in the target figure, trees that were already going to be planted, mostly by private industry, to replace trees that were going to be logged for timer or clear felled. 500,000,00 trees. If the tree campaign did not spend a cent or plant any trees, it would have reached 500,000,000 anyway. So 500,000,000 trees planted gross, 0 trees planted net. Liar, liar, pants on fire.
  
  Kiwibuild – So effectively no houses built or so few it did not shift the graph off zero. Bolstered stats by buying already built houses, but didn’t sell them. So few anyway it did not shift the graph off zero.
  
  Stopping Corona Virus – People want freedom of choice, and you have to give it to them. The major impact factor in Covid-19 taking lives or causing permanent lung damage is impaired lung immunity. The main causes of impaired lung immunity deficiency are smoking tobacco, smoking weed, and vaping. All three not only reduce lung immunity by a significant amount, they almost entirely shut down the lung garbage collection process.
  
  So, if Covid-19 patients were routine smokers, tokers, or soakers, the likelihood of a negative outcome is multiplied many times over. It would be interesting to see the stats on how many Covid-19 deaths occurred that involved people that had not been self-abusing their lungs vs those that had been self-abusing or had lived in polluted areas. Ms Ardern has been quiet about this. Warning about self-abusing the lungs and its contribution to Covid-19 deaths, and going speaking out against tobacco, weed, and vaping would not help her re-election prospects in the next election.
  
  Mans inhumanity to man. Caused by wrong actions taken, or right actions not taken, by self serving people in positions of power.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:50am
mjw

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
David Seymour is being incredibly irresponsible in suggesting we might come out of lockdown early.

No doubt he will claim innocently that it is rational to simply ask the question. But decision making is not just about making a choice. It is also about setting the agenda and framing a problem. He is choosing to put this issue on the agenda, when it didn’t have to be. People will be influenced by it being on the agenda, regardless of the decision made. And this is no doubt his point, to make people upset about it, so they vote for ACT for ‘sticking up for them’.

David Seymour’s act of irresponsibility could well undermine the public health response, and lead to more infections and more deaths.
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April 8, 2020 8:07am
- krazykiwi
  
  It is the duty of EVERY citizen to question the government granting itself unprecedented powers that undermine our civil liberties.
  
  More power to Seymour and anyone else who does likewise.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:25am
  - mjw
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    But that isn’t what he did with those comments.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:30am
  - Rich Prick
    
    I’m sneaking off for a sly drive shortly. I’m pretty sure it won’t kill millions.
    
    47 11
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    April 8, 2020 8:38am
    - mjw
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      So you’re bullet proof, just like Boris Johnson?
      
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      April 8, 2020 8:39am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Oh look, a little socialist with a stern message. There’s one in every crowd.
        
        59 4
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        April 8, 2020 8:44am
      - mjw
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Honestly Rich Prick, think again. We don’t have to agree about everything. But please don’t take the side of the virus, just because you don’t like the government.
        
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        April 8, 2020 8:47am
      - cmm
        
        Boris wasn’t in his car was he.
        
        37 4
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        April 8, 2020 8:57am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Call the snitch line, it will make you feel 10 times taller.
        
        44 4
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        April 8, 2020 8:58am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Boris was at least leading, unlike Jacinda who does daily standup to enhance her public persona.
        
        You should do a contrast of the two Prime Ministers (putting aside the political grandstanding), and you’ll be very dismayed at how poor the actions of Jacinda (and co) have been when compared to Boris and his government.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:01am
      - mjw
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        I strongly advise you not to flout the law. Particularly during a time of pandemic.
        
        Really, it shouldn’t need to be said. What’s wrong with you guys?
        
        3 36
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        April 8, 2020 9:06am
      - kowtow
        
        Carrie better watch out , Boris might take a shine to some nurse or other.
        
        He rips through chicks like a bird flu virus in a wet market.
        
        9 8
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        April 8, 2020 9:34am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @mjw
        
        The government virus is far worse than Covid-19. For a start Covid-19 does not strip the white blood cells of it’s automatic weapons and then allow the cancer cells to keep theirs.
        
        10 2
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        April 8, 2020 10:06am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Take your strong advice and shove it. I don’t respond well to little self-appointed authoritarians.
        
        25 2
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        April 8, 2020 10:08am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Toying with that myself.
      Need to drive the car….
      
      22 5
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      April 8, 2020 9:13am
      - Dougal10
        
        Especially as fuel so cheap at the moment and roads are empty.
        
        7 1
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        April 8, 2020 9:41am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Cars do need to be at least started weekly (or in some cases of cars I’ve owned in the past, weakly) and preferably taken for a short drive.
        
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        April 8, 2020 9:59am
  - freethinker
    
    Party vote ACT=10 MPs to keep National honest.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:26am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I think David Seymour has had a great year. I really do hope Act can get enough percentage of the vote in the coming election to have 3 seats.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:52am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I was strongly in favor of the lockdown, but looking around the world nowhere has managed to eradicate wuflu once it is established, it lingers on at significant rates of infection ready to spike up again if controls are relaxed.
  
  We simply can’t get rid of it without far better quarantining than this govt seem capable of enacting (supermarkets!!!), so we need to find a better balance to aid our dire economy. Open up as much as we can without setting off increases in cases. And start building as much ICU capacity as possible so that we can work towards herd immunity sooner with lower body-count.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:41am
  - mjw
    
    I think this is a reasonable argument. However, I think we still do have a chance to eradicate the virus. We are one of just a handful of countries in this position (along with a few other developed islands).
    
    Should we succeed in eliminating the virus, we will get a massive economic advantage, and this will include huge inflows of capital as we become an attractive investment destination. Worth a try, in my view.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:54am
    - Tricati
      
      I believe we need a vaccine before this crap will be totally eradicated.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:33am
    - Crisplion
      
      Worth gambling my children’s economic future on? Thanks all the same but I’d prefer to take a more rational and considered approach.
      
      So far we have one death and 240 recovered cases. That’s a mortality rate of about 0.4 of one percent. So I very much question the ‘experts’ on whose advice the trashing of our economy is based. I think they’ve vastly over-estimated the danger, probably because, in many countries, a large proportion of mild cases have been missed.
      
      The world is in the grip of mass hysteria and it’s taken root here too. Obviously the medical perspective is necessary, but so are perspectives that take into account the ruinous social and economic effects of the lock-down. I think, at best, the NZ government have failed to think through the consequences of their actions and, at worst, are planning to use the economic catastrophe they’ve wrought as an opportunity to lock in socialism. Taking into account their complete and utter ineptitude at everything, the former is more likely, but that doesn’t mean that the latter hasn’t occurred to them too.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:40am
    - cmm
      
      If you think a virus like this can be eradicated you are dreaming.
      
      The reason for that is biological.
      
      Some virus types (eg. smallpox) can be eradicated, flu type viruses cannot.
      
      Antibodies for smallpox are effective for a wide range of viruses (eg smallpox (both types), cowpox, monkey pox etc). That means a mutation is still covered by existing antibodies and eradication is possible.
      
      Antibodies for flu type viruses are different. A mutation needs its own antibodies. That is why you need a flu shot every year….
      
      … and that is why you can forget about eradicating the common cold, flu, SARS (inc Covid), MERS etc.
      
      Perhaps it will happen one day, with some new medical tech, but it won’t happen because PriNZess stomped her foot or we “flatten the curve” or whatever.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:54am
      - Ed Snack
        
        cmm, the SARS family of Beta-Corona viruses are NOT like the influenza virii and are not hyper mutators. I’ve pointed this out before, the flu virus family has a somewhat unique internal structure that allows it to swap functional units in a kind of “pick and mix” way to produce new variants very readily. For example two of the coat proteins are represented by the H and N characters to particularize which variant a flu virus is -Eg the H1N1 and H1N3 sub types. There are 132 HN variants that have been detected out of 288 possible (so H13N18 exists for example).
        
        This rapid remixing means that differing variants are always present and always mixing. As Vaccines usually target the coat proteins a vaccine effective against H2N5 is probably essentially worthless against H3N1.
        
        The BCV’s however are a single 30K base pair RNA strand so mutate quite differently. Being RNA they mutate quite quickly by changing base pairs, but there is no existing reservoir of viable alternative functional code units, so any mutation is quite unlikely to change function and if it does the change is likely to be for the worse (for the virus).
        
        So a BCV virus will mutate, but functionally will mutate much slower than the common flu. We’re unlikely to see a significantly different COVID-20 virus evolve from COVID-19 (though a new one could arise via the same mechanism that produced -19 by species crossing or accidental lab release, whichever) but we will likely see a -35 or something like that. That’s how we had SARS and MERS back in 2003 or so, and COVID-19 now.
        
        So a vaccine if good is likely to be able suppress the current outbreak near completely. The original virus reservoir however will still exist (in bats or wherever) and another spreading event is likely. That’s why there should be continued research into the BCV family with a view to finding viable ameliorating treatments (anti-virals of various stripes) that can be used until a new vaccine can be produced.
        
        After SARS some research in this area was indeed started, but after a few years with no further BCV activity it tapered off despite some visionaries warning about the longer term dangers.
        
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        April 8, 2020 10:12am
      - Durden
        
        @ Ed, This might be of interest–Universal vaccines.
        “Currently, seasonal vaccines are customized every year to protect against the flu strains that world health officials believe will be most dominant, with no guarantee of protection. As the Centers for Disease Control recently reported, the 2018-2019 seasonal flu vaccine was among the least effective in years, at 29% effective overall and just 9% in the second half of the season.
        
        “The seasonal flu vaccine is based on arcane technology,” said Joseph Hernandez, a seasoned entrepreneurial biotech leader and CEO of Blue Water Vaccines. “Developing a single vaccine to protect against all influenza strains requires a more refined understanding of the virus and a fundamentally new approach. Our vaccine, derived from groundbreaking mathematical models and research, represents both.”
        
        Findings by a multidisciplinary team of researchers at the University of Oxford led by theoretical epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta PhD and virologist Craig Thompson, PhD suggest flu is not as variable as previously believed. Mathematical models analyzing the way historic flu strains change over time led to the theory that the epidemic behavior of influenza is primarily determined by immune responses acting upon regions of the virus that are limited in variability. Additional research identified these regions; mice vaccinated with just four variants of the region of limited variability received immunity to all historical influenza strains.”
        
        https://innovation.ox.ac.uk/news/blue-water-vaccines-developing-universal-flu-vaccine-completes-7m-financing-following-successful-preclinical-study/
        
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        April 8, 2020 2:01pm
    - PhilBest
      
      I agree that NZ was in a unique position to gain an economic advantage, but maximizing that would have involved NOT doing level 4 lockdown. It’s obvious now that we weren’t going to have our hospitals overwhelmed, and we’ve “slowed the herd immunity” for nothing. The virus will be around for longer because of lockdown level 4 and that will mean its still here in our flu season. We should be going for a “sharp” peak in NZ because our “sharp” is a nothingburger meanwhile and flu season is the “multiplier” we should avoid.
      
      “Not trashing the economy”, and minimizing business failure, which is going to happen to some extent because of global conditions, would be the ultimate economic advantage.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:25am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Yes, huge economy boost.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:42am
- Albert_Ross
  
  It’s certainly true that ending the lockdown too soon could lead to great and avoidable lasting damage, so we should try to avoid that.
  
  But that’s also true of ending the lockdown too late.
  
  We are however unlikely to find the optimum between these two errors of extreme if we do not allow the risks and benefits of either approach to be fully examined.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:41am
- PhilBest
  
  Seymour is lonely but dam right. I hope ACT gets a massive electoral boost from when he’s proved right.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:52am
  - JackRabbit
    
    We hope so, but Ms Ardern will try and take credit for it.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:07am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  He’ll be worried that his Grim Reaper referendum might fail.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:58am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    At least he doesn’t have to worry that Covid19 will have killed all the unhealthy so there’s no point in euthanasia any more.
    
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    April 8, 2020 3:51pm
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘David Seymour is being incredibly irresponsible in suggesting we might come out of lockdown early.’
  
  Rubbish
  He’s quite right to raise the question. The way things are starting to look he could well be right.
  I’d suggest vulnerable people stay isolated but the rest of us could very well soon go back.
  It should be reviewed this Monday.
  Need to quarantine the Border though.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:03am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Is that the best Fraser house can come up with this morning? Getting desperate? It is the governments FUCKING DUTY to come out of lockdown as quickly as it possibly can.
  
  This is not some communist fantasy we are living in.
  
  Who employs NZers? Will there be any businesses survive? How many tourism or service businesses can survive 2 months with no revenue? I guess cafe leases will be pretty cheap in the main centres by May – as the tenants will simply walk away.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:23am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Tell me exactly WHY it’s the government’s FUCKING DUTY to come out of lockdown as quickly as possible so you and your mates can continue your neoliberal-inspired trashing of the world as quickly as possible?
    
    It’s your ideology mate. You make it happen.
    
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    April 8, 2020 3:53pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  David picked his time, the day the figures gave the best example that the lockdown was working.
  It’s time for some people that were crapping themselves 2 weeks ago to get all bolshie and say ‘I told you so.’
  Credit to David that he didn’t go that far.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:20am
  - PhilBest
    
    If there was going to be a problem with community transmission, as opposed to identifiable clusters related to overseas exposure, even under the lockdown we should be seeing some community transfer. The fact we are seeing almost nothing, in combination with the obviously low deadliness (14 requiring hospitalization out of 1100) shows that lockdown level 4 was unnecessary.
    
    The narrative that lockdown “saved us” requires the assumption that the virus wasn’t spreading unnoticed here, from back as far as it was getting noticed in Northern Italy. This is just not credible, and the now-obvious low deadliness is strong support of the hypothesis that it’s been “here and harmless” rather than “not here yet”.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:31am
Komata

I’ve been told that the lockdown has (perhaps predictably) been extended by another week, but can’t find any media confirmation of this.

Does anyone know?

Thanks.
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April 8, 2020 8:07am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The lockdown hasn’t been extended (yet).
  
  What has been extended (for the 2nd time) is the State of National Emergency.
  It is declared for 1 week at a time by the Minister of Civil Defence.
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/state-national-emergency-extended-2
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:30am
  - cmm
    
    It is the very poor communication of how this mechanism works that is causing the confusion.
    
    Perhaps we need someone with some communication training as PM?
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:56am
    - JackRabbit
      
      We need someone who knows to use communication protocols, not someone who abuses communication protocols.
      
      8 1
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      April 8, 2020 10:14am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Why do you imagine that news of such importance would be withheld from the media and nevertheless known to members of kiwiblog?
  
  9 15
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  April 8, 2020 8:32am
  - Okahu
    
    Subconsciously perhaps, Komata has come to expect the outrageously high know it all capacity of many on this site to be correlated with you know, actually knowing. Most bubble blogs are prone to it. This one, full of the elderly and the angry has it in spades. Or at least that’s my best guess.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:50am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Feel free to tell me what I’ve got wrong.
      
      I suggest you check Sarah Stuart-Black’s video first
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/explained-the-difference-between-coronavirus-alert-level-4-and-state-of-emergency.html
      
      then read through this:
      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0033/51.0/DLM149789.html
      
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      April 8, 2020 12:15pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The state of health emergency was extended for a week last week. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no extension of the lockdown.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:34am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Perhaps we need a “businesses killed” meter below the KiwiBuild and trees planted ones.
    
    42 2
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    April 8, 2020 8:41am
    - Aunty
      
      Why? Those businesses were going to die anyway. They didn’t die because of COVID-19, they died with COVID-19. So they shouldn’t be counted. All those businesses had pre-existing financial health issues. They were very poor businesses in a very poor state. The rate of businesses going under is the same now as it was before the lockdown.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:03am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Some extremely well-run businesses.. market gardens, plant nurseries.. butcheries, piggeries have had to dig-in hundreds of thousands of $$$$$ of their stock because they didn’t have an arrangement with Countdown or Pac’nSave to sell their produce.
        
        I do not believe all small or independent businesses were in a poor state.
        
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        April 8, 2020 12:20pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Tony, to reinforce the lockdown, do they need to extend the State of Emergency again each week?
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:07am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      That’s what has been happening while we are in Level 4.
      The state of national emergency has been declared because of unprecedented nature of this global pandemic and to ensure the Government has the powers it needs to slow the spread of COVID-19 and reduce its impact,” Stuart-Black said at the time.
      
      The declaration allows Stuart-Black to direct and coordinate personnel, material and other resources to ensure they can be made available during the crisis.
      
      “It also provides access to powers that would not normally be available, but would be needed to support the delivery and timely response to COVID-19,” she said.
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/coronavirus-government-extends-new-zealand-s-state-of-national-emergency-during-covid-19-crisis.html
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:47am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    There won’t be any extension or reduction on the lockdown before the figures are in is what the PM has said.
    As many posts show there is a surge for running before walking because of yesterday’s figures. The best of which was probably that contact tracing is now only extending to 2 or 3 people by virtue of the lockdown. That indicates stifled community spread, the purpose of the lockdown. Examples of community spread extend up to 70 people in 3 different clusters those figures are a look in the lion’s mouth.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:26am
    - PhilBest
      
      Are you looking at the stats properly? Those clusters are “overseas infection” related, not “community spread” related.
      Transmission type % of cases
      Recent overseas travel 42%
      Contact with known case 41%
      Community transmission 2%
      Source under investigation 16%
      
      https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases/covid-19-clusters
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:35am
  - Batman
    
    Yes, the state of emergency is reviewed every seven days.
    
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    April 8, 2020 11:26am
- RalphT
  
  I think that is the state of emergency, which is only for one week and has then to be extended. The lockdown is still, I believe, only for four weeks.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:36am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I think the confusion here is the weekly order required for the MOH’s instruction to be continued. It expires weekly, so for us to have the 4 weeks that were announced there is a roll-over.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:47am
- bruceavon
  
  I doubt it. Sounds like an urban myth. They need to see the results of the lock down, so they should know for sure by mid next week. I think they said the 11th was when they could start to tell.
  
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  April 8, 2020 11:11am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Four weeks MINIMUM.
    
    I think they are going to insist on two weeks in any area (however they are calculated) without a reported case before the area is changed from Level 4 to Level 3 status.
    
    So, some areas may be in for a longer wait than others.
    
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    April 8, 2020 3:55pm
MT_Tinman

Headline on Stuff: Coronavirus: Police to operate checkpoints stopping non-essential travellers

The police state gets deeper!
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April 8, 2020 8:12am
- Tony Stuart
  
  MT – if I lived anywhere are Coromandel, I’d gladly go and man the barriers to keep Aucklanders out over Easter! They’re supposed to be staying home FFS.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:09am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    Tony, you’d break the law and spread the virus to stop others who have broken the bloody ridiculous law and are going to their holiday homes, therefore putting no one else at risk?
    
    You’re worse than the Jafas!
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:42am
    - Batman
      
      MT that’s bullshit mate. Taking the absolute piss by going to a holiday home is just as bad as Davey Clark’s bike rides and beach trips!
      
      2 3
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      April 8, 2020 11:27am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        But Rich Prick and his mates are just going for a week drive to check on their holiday home. They’re not meeting with anyone along the way?
        
        Where’s the harm in that?
        
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        April 8, 2020 3:56pm
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    People from the Waikato just as bad tony – rules for others and rules don’t apply to us wtf
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:45am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Tony, it is easy, close the bridge at Kopu. Stops Aucklanders getting to Thames and the Coromandel.
    
    It is now a 2 lane concrete bridge. In the good old days it was a rickety wooden one lane bridge controlled by traffic lights at each end.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:49am
  - Okahu
    
    Subconsciously perhaps, Komata has come to expect the outrageously high know it all capacity of many on this site to be correlated with you know, actually knowing something. Most bubble blogs which are political, and thus opinion based, are prone to it. This one, full of the elderly and the angry has it in spades. Or at least that’s my best guess.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:54am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    That’s right Tony.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:27am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Horse has bolted chaps – no reminders to the entitled who thought rules didn’t apply to them and their families at start of school holidays … absolutely nada in papers so families travelled to holiday hotspots (pauanui one for sure) and thought locals wouldn’t notice
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:44am
- Alex13
  
  Not deep enough. Shoot the bastards who don’t stay at home!
  
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  April 8, 2020 4:18pm
RiP NZ

On shoring, building recycling capacity and infrastructure could be a recovery industry ?
They will tip money into all sorts of PGF type dubious initiatives- why continue to ship waste ?
15 1
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April 8, 2020 8:13am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  I’m good with high temp incineration, and the associated co-generation capability.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:27am
Maggy Wassilieff

4 strategies for testing for Covid-19

https://sciblogs.co.nz/public-health-expert/2020/04/06/testing-for-covid-19-in-nz-to-achieve-the-elimination-goal/
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April 8, 2020 8:16am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Looks very good Maggie.
  I’ve read that overseas efforts show that testing sewerage is not helpful with results. But no objections if they can and do that test here.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:47am
Happychappy

Shane Jones concedes the Provincial Growth Fund has not created enough jobs, and promises a fix.
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones conceded the PFG should have created more jobs after a attack by a Union Boss. Anyone with any brains knew that this was never about jobs and always about a slush fund to those that would support NZ First at the next Election. This is similar to the NZ First Foundation that many Journalists with others have said equates to donations for policy which leaves the aroma of corruption.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120883746/shane-jones-concedes-provincial-growth-fund-hasnt-created-enough-jobs-promises-a-fix
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April 8, 2020 8:20am
Humble Capitalist

Interesting comparing NZ and Victoria Australia COVID-19 – not too dissimilar land areas and population. Victoria population is about 6.3 million vs NZ 4.8 million. NZ has nearly caught up with Victoria cases 1160 vs 1191. Victoria cases are going up by 20-30 per day now. Victoria has done about 50% more testing than NZ 63,000 vs 43,000. However the main separating stat is Victoria has had 11 deaths vs NZ 1 death. We have been very lucky on that last stat so far.
Also interesting having talked to a cousin in Victoria a couple of days ago they were eating takeaway pizza. They said a lot of things are still open there but they are obviously practicing social distancing.
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April 8, 2020 8:24am
- krazykiwi
  
  Friends of ours in Brissy spent Sunday using a rental van to shift some furniture, pickup up gardening supplies. They then shopped at the local butcher (their son!) before getting takeaway Thai for dinner and sitting on the beach as the sun set.
  
  Clearly their government doesn’t crave power like ours does.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:35am
  - Random T Person
    
    I’m considering moving to Brisbane after all this is over.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:52am
    - Batman
      
      You’ll be waiting a while for it to be over in Australia…
      
      4 1
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      April 8, 2020 11:30am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Imagine that freedom. Best I get back to making large rocks into small ones.
    
    30 1
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    April 8, 2020 8:55am
- PhilBest
  
  Containment Level 3 was all we ever needed. Our similarities with Aussie include that it’s not flu season, our lower density suburbs and newer housing (compared to Old Europe), vulnerable elderly in better housing and environments with cleaner air.
  
  Yep we’ve been incredibly lucky with only one death, but whether it is one or ten, it is almost certain that they are people dying “with” rather than “of” Covid-19. Ninety percent of Italian deaths fall into that category.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:58am
bruceavon

Surprised by Nationals decision not to question David Clark yesterday about his ‘travels’ during the committee session and to support the PM decision not to sack him. I generally applaud the collaborative approach they have all shown in this crisis, but this is too far. Obeying ‘nice’ orders? Don’t get it.
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April 8, 2020 8:29am
- Pongo
  
  Much better to leave David Clark in place politically, nice reminder on how crap the cabinet is and despite them hiding him away in Dunedin during this crisis sooner or later he will stuff up again.
  
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  April 8, 2020 8:43am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I agree, and National yesterday had plenty of issues relating to testing and quarantine to ask Clark and they DG. If anything Clark’s mea culpa at the beginning of the session was sufficient.
    
    Speaking of quarantine, early results on Newshub’s poll this morning show 98% of Kiwis in favour of mandatory 14-day quarantine for all new arrivals to New Zealand. Why the PM won’t just announce this is a real mystery. You can ramp up the pressure on her by signing this:
    
    https://www.national.org.nz/mandatory_quarantining_at_border
    
    More than 20,000 people have already signed this petition in less than 24 hours.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:20am
    - freethinker
      
      No need to have mandatory personal details to vote. Understand National would like data to recruit membership and notify policy – not a good look. For a genuine poll offer try WWW HYSP.CO.NZ and you see the results right away.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:37am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Tony, she and her political advisors have painted themselves into a corner over this, so they’ll be reluctant to do it.
      
      But the need for Jacinda to look like she is managing the crisis (as the basis for her re-election campaign), as opposed to being bounced into actions (which is what they’ve done to date) will have her looking for a way to implement the mandatory quarantine of arrivals.
      
      She can’t afford to have a public look that says she is at odds with New Zealanders, while at the same time being bounced into something by the Leader of the Opposition.
      
      Oh sh*t, I’ve just heard Jacinda’s platform of being the “Safe Pair of Hands in a Crisis being Shattered”.
      
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      April 8, 2020 10:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Considering how poor the COL are over all, they need David Clark. The fact that he got caught exercising initiative shows he is a cut above his colleagues. He has more intellectual capacity than most of them too.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:51am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      I think Twyford (everything he touches) , Lees-Galloway (Sourbek) and Clark are in a race to the bottom. Who can be the worst MP. Kelvin Davis is just doing nothing and fist pumping the air and screaming “Yes!”, I’m not bottom!
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:59am
    - septic skeptic
      
      He appeared to be very poorly informed at the committee yesterday. There must be better options.
      
      14 1
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      April 8, 2020 10:06am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Few in the COL. David ranks as an intellectual comparatively.
        
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        April 8, 2020 11:35am
  - JackRabbit
    
    It helps to have a few Mr Beans, Basil Fawltys, and Mr Magoos on the opposing teams.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:20am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Because, despite everything you hear here, there is a significant percentage of the population think both Simon Bridges and David Clark are just as guilty as each other, and they want that story to quietly die.
    
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    April 8, 2020 3:59pm
dog_eat_dog

When is the media going to question this ‘go hard and early’ narrative instead of shilling it for the PM? She claims we’ve ‘closed the borders’ but we still have people arriving that aren’t even being quarantined.

I hope whatever future investigation into the government responses looks at the PM’s words and claims and evaluates whether she has misled the public.
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April 8, 2020 8:37am
- kiwiracer
  
  Because they’d rather report about the hidden scorched almonds.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:34am
- hullkiwi
  
  They are not, because it would undermine Jacinda’s narrative for her re-election campaign.
  
  Labour spinmeisters are feeding the sheeple via the MSM and the Facebook world with the lines:
  1. Jacinda, textbook example of Crisis management;
  2. Jacinda all the right moves etc.
  
  This is the narrative, it cannot be questioned, because it is all she has.
  
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  April 8, 2020 11:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    that is why the spin-folk are failing to report how well Bridges is at managing the Epidemic Committee hearings.
    
    Here we see who is really doing the work for this Government.
    
    Come 3pm..(.or whenever Ardern does her TV spot)..
    The PM will gloss over any problems raised and a day or two later suggest that she is concerned but solving them.
    
    12 1
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    April 8, 2020 12:29pm
  - Ruahine
    
    Without the Media Party Labour has nothing and is nothing. There will be money found to keep all of their friends at the Listener N&S etc in a job soon.
    
    6 1
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    April 8, 2020 1:32pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I have emailed Bauer Media offering to buy the Listener, but have yet to receive a reply.
      
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      April 8, 2020 2:02pm
JibberJabber

Yeah, so while the cops are at the beach……
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323091
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April 8, 2020 8:43am
- Ruahine
  
  Nah. Better to go after the rich pricks. Thy’re the ones with the surf boards easy to find.
  
  “Hey we got one Jacinda”.
  
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  April 8, 2020 1:29pm
Simon

Phil Goff going ahead with 3.5% rates increase. Madness.

Goff said that Auckland council carrying too much debt to do anything but put the rates up

Auckland Shitty Council blown up by the tax, borrow heavily and piss away cretins needs to go into Administration the sooner the better.

In Administrative the white elephant projects can be canceled and half the workforce fired. The rates can fall to acceptable levels, assets sold to retire debt

If Goff continues the train wreck will be far worse.
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April 8, 2020 8:46am
- PhilBest
  
  The trains are the biggest white elephant of the lot. And what’s more they are a “Concorde project”, they will cost, and cost, and cost, forever.
  
  And a lot of the cost is taxpayer cost not just Dorkland ratepayer cost. John Key National’s capitulation on this was just another of many craven “Vichy” actions on their part. Tony Randle did a brilliant audit, unpaid, of the crooked “Business Case” for the CRL and the Vichy Nats just ignored it and ran the white flag up to the eco-Nazi car-haters.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:02am
  - tf78
    
    Phil – not exactly, National said the CRL was not to start until 2018- Len Brown just went ahead anyway.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:58am
  - Okahu
    
    “Dorkland”! Brilliant. Too much.
    
    Is that rhyming pejorative fair game or should we leave that for your personal use? It would be fantastic, if you don’t mind, to be able to employ that Wildean witticism in the flashing rapier style you so nonchalantly exhibit.
    
    Just a little thing. Doesn’t the name, so used, imply it’s better to be a nonDorklander? Can we be separated, cleaved as it were into the Dorks v the not Dorks (aka Dorkless)? Are we in danger (no doubt accidentally) in employing such rhyming ridicule, of enthusing over the apparently preferred provincial predilection for dorklessness? And what of those happy not to be dork inflicted? Perhaps to set the matter straight we could say what we really mean and preface Dorklander with Huge or Massive. Yeah that will do it. That wont leave any doubt as to who should be envious of what and whom and where.
    
    Seperate thought. We could save the council a fortune next time they rebrand. I’m seeing
    
    Dorkland!
    It’s a place!
    cum and sea!
    
    Lockdown Kiwiblog eh. Loving it.
    
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    April 8, 2020 11:20am
- tui47
  
  Ironically Goff is cancelling the contracts of 1,100 council workers and therefore cancelling their income. At the same time he is raising their rates when they and many others in the Auckland region will be struggling to make ends meet. It is a similar brain dead move to the Government not delaying the increase in the minimum wage.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:13am
  - Simon
    
    There is just too much debt in NZ. It’s just hard for normal people to manage instead there is Ardern Robertson and Twyford. Then little Phil Goff as well.
    
    Too many balls to start juggling something will give. They could send everyone home who is here on a work visa fire half of Auckland City council who could then work for $10 per hour at petrol stations etc.
    
    But they won’t. Auckland City fast heading to Administration unless Wellington pumps it fall of money printing. But then interest rates go up and Auckland City with over $9 billion in debt is finished anyway.
    
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    April 8, 2020 9:55am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Would you work for $10 an hour? I wouldn’t.
      
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      April 8, 2020 4:01pm
  - Jules99
    
    Interesting that this morning I got an electronic message saying that my query with the AC has been resolved. It hasn’t. Looks like they just closed it. When do I get my rates rebate for council reducing services?
    
    8 1
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    April 8, 2020 12:14pm
  - Ruahine
    
    They can look forward to being rehired at much lower rates of pay and on worse conditions.
    
    6 0
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    April 8, 2020 1:25pm
- Fletch
  
  It’s nearly impossible for a career politician to keep his hands off other people’s money. They think they’re entitled.
  
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  April 8, 2020 11:25am
3-coil

Some non-coronavirus news:

Front page of this morning’s DomPost shows serial rapist Lewis Scott has been convicted, yet again, of another violent rape in Wellington. This time, the wet white woman judge has really thrown the book at him and sentenced him to…6 years (out in 2 or 3 yrs?).

But conspicuous by its absence in any of the DomPost’s reporting of this animal’s crimes is the acknowledgment of the paper’s own role in promoting this rapist over the years. The DomPost championed the “African-American jazz poet” for years, effectively promoting him in the capital’s arts community by prominently publishing his work, and enabling his profile to remain high – even after the first rape had been reported. His “poetry” even then showed signs of his violent, sexualised, racist tendencies, such as this charming ditty they published:

A POEM FOR FIVE WHITE MEN

Leighton Smith
Paul Holmes
Tony Veitch
Paul Henry
Murray Deaker
can kiss my Black ass.

It is about time the DomPost came clean and apologised (especially to Lewis Scott’s victims) for its misjudged publicizing and support of this unrepentant racist serial-rapist thug. And perhaps the judge, with her history of lenient treatment of similar criminals, could also apologise and excuse herself from these trials in the future.
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April 8, 2020 8:47am
- PhilBest
  
  Thanks for that comment; it parallels exactly what I have read about wet intersectional-feminist judges in Scandinavia throwing their own sisters to the mass-immigrant wolves on “cultural sensitivity” grounds.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:04am
- Rich Prick
  
  But he’s a rapist of colour, so that grants him a very special status with the luvvies. Don’t hold your breath.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:20am
  - kowtow
    
    It does raise serious questions for the woke hashtag heroines of the relativity of victims in the victim hierarchy .
    
    I think the answer is that wimmin victims of black rapists are definitely lower in the pecking order .
    
    12 1
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    April 8, 2020 9:50am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Yet, if you actually look at what really happens you’ll find that Maori and PI criminals are treated much harsher by Police and the Justice system than white criminals for identical crimes.
    So, again, it’s just lies. You see one swallow and think it’s the hottest summer ever.
    
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    April 8, 2020 4:03pm
- coge
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/118837209/poet-lewis-scott-convicted-for-the-second-time-because-victim-refused-to-give-up
  
  Defence lawyer Anne Stevens QC played the “Orange man bad card”
  
  “Rewriting history is alright for Trump but you are here to decide if this is proof beyond reasonable doubt.”
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:50am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    No bloody different to the “beneficiaries are gonna spend all their money on ciggies and booze” conversations I read here every day.
    
    Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
    
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    April 8, 2020 4:04pm
Komata

MaggyW@0830

Thank you.

Something strange though: The Declaration (unless I’m reading it incorrectly), states that:

‘This extension comes into force at 12.21pm on Wednesday, 8 April 2020 and will expire at 12.21pm on Wednesday, 15 April 2020’.

My understanding is that the SOE already exists until the 22 April 2020 (ie, a week later).

Have I missed something?

Thank you.
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April 8, 2020 9:09am
- peterwn
  
  A ‘State of Emergency’ has to be renewed weekly.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Have I missed something?
  
  Yes.
  
  There are 2 separate things happening at the same time…
  1. A Level 4 pandemic lockdown was declared by the PM… as advised by the DG of Health… and it was declared to be in operation for 4 weeks (at least)
  
  2. (At the same time) A State of National Emergency was declared by the Min of Civil Defence …. This can only last for 1 week and then needs renewals.
  
  The Director CDEM is in charge of handling the National Emergency …but as this Emergency is a Pandemic.. the Min of Health becomes the Lead Agency and will make the final call of when pandemic Levels reduce or come off.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:31am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Good answer Maggy.
    
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    April 8, 2020 4:05pm
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

Can anyone explain to me why in a global pandemic which attacks the lungs, we are made to stop everything, EXCEPT smoking?
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April 8, 2020 9:13am
- RdM
  
  (Accidentally hit Report instead of Reply, apologies!)
  _
  
  Actual studies, as opposed to the simplistic propaganda of ‘ooh, lungs, now would be a good time to give up smoking’ – show that non smokers are far more vulnerable than smokers to it.
  _
  
  Afraid of coronavirus? Smoke tobacco …
  
  Three studies of confirmed corona virus cases in China have until now found that never-smokers are strongly in excess in coronavirus-patients, and that smokers with covid-19 in turn are extremely rare …
  
  In one study of 140 confirmed patients in Wuhan District, there were 2 smokers and 7 ex-smokers – the remaining 131 patients were never smokers, corresponding to 94% of patients …
  
  “The exact underlying causes of the lower incidence of COVID‐19 in current smokers are still unknown,” the authors write:
  
  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/all.14238
  
  In the second study of 1099, covid-19 patients from 552 hospitals in China confirmed that 85% of patients were never smokers, while only 12% were smokers and 2% were ex-smokers:
  
  https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032
  
  In a third small study of 41 confirmed patients, 38 were found to be non-smokers (93%), while only 3 patients were smokers (7%). None of the 3 smoking cases were serious:
  
  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext
  
  (Below – translated – comment from original poster of above studies links on a blog I read)
  
  “The figures should be compared to the fact that smoking is much more prevalent in China than here: Much less than half of the population are never-smokers in China. As many as 70% of men are daily or occasional smokers, while only about 5% of women claim to be smokers.
  
  The remarkable and clear figures from these studies are undeniably suggesting that smoking can have a protective effect against covid-19 … just as smoking protects against a variety of bacteria and infections”
  _
  
  And here is a fourth study:
  
  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30079-5/fulltext
  
  Setting: 52 severe hit covid-19 patients enrolled in the Wuhan Jin Yin-tan hospital in January.
  
  32 of these patients died, leaving only 20 survivors. The group consisted of 50 non-smokers (96%) and 2 smokers (4%), who were both among the survivors.
  
  And a fifth
  
  https://www.qeios.com/read/article/554
  
  Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19
  
  Abstract
  The study presents an analysis of the current smoking prevalence among hospitalized patients with COVID-19 in China, compared to the population smoking prevalence in China (52.1% in males and 2.7% in females). Through a systematic research of the literature (PubMed) we identified 7 studies examining the clinical characteristics of a total of 2352 hospitalized COVID-19 patients that presented data on the smoking status. The expected number of smokers was calculated using the formula Expected smokers = (males x 0.521) + (females x 0.027). An unusually low prevalence of current smoking was observed among hospitalized COVID-19 patients (8.7%, 95%CI: 7.6-9.9%) compared to the expected prevalence based on smoking prevalence in China (30.3%, 95%CI: 28.4-32.1%; z-statistic: 22.80, P < 0.0001). This preliminary analysis does not support the argument that current smoking is a risk factor for hospitalization for COVID-19, and might even suggest a protective role.
  _
  
  Put that in your prohibitionist pipe and smoke it!
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:57am
  - RdM
    
    There is a later version of that last study out now, and here is a review of and commentary on it:
    
    https://antithrlies.com/2020/04/04/can-smoking-protect-you-against-covid-19/
    
    The comments below it worth reading as well.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:27am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      It’s even more silly to reject the findings as meaning it supports people smoking when it, in fact, does not. It shows a helpful link that is not necessarily linked to lifetime smoking – nor is it anyway promoting that.
      
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      April 8, 2020 11:14am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    RdM thanks have been wondering about that, more so since the more recent claims that the virus may be ‘airborne’ by breath as well as sneezing and coughing.
    I’ve been wondering if there have been tests to see how Covid 19 cells stand up to tobacco, or cannabis or other ‘smoke’ which can be inhaled. Those figures appear to show Covid 19 has difficulty resisting tobacco or perhaps adhering to throat and lungs of smokers. If that proved to be the case may be inhaling tobacco smoke through a water pipe or something similar could be a treatment?
    
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    April 8, 2020 11:05am
Suze Wainwright

Hey, apparently Trevor Mallard expected Simon Bridges to be driving to Wellington to fulfill his work responsibilities with the Committee, etc…
Someone should tell the MSM that it’s all okay with the Speaker and to not keep barking at such an obvious parked car!
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April 8, 2020 9:20am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Over on the Standard they will be wetting themselves with excitement that Simon has been driving which is terrible whereas David Clark has been working so hard he needed a break with his family and it was only really a grey area….sarc.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:15am
- bruceavon
  
  Mallard told him to drive? stupid. Simon has done nothing wrong here but from a tech point of view I can’t believe has to drive from Tauranga to Wellington to get a good internet connection?? Can’t he hot spot his phone? don’t they have fibre anywhere in Tauranga. Its 2020. Seems crazy.
  
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  April 8, 2020 11:23am
  - Paulus
    
    My internet some 700 metres from Simon’s home is perfect.
    Labour list Tinetti is also similar distance.
    
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    April 8, 2020 2:11pm
    - bruceavon
      
      Maybe he can come over to your place mate? Save a drive
      
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      April 8, 2020 2:36pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        What if he likes driving, though?
        
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        April 8, 2020 2:54pm
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Have you been watching the Epidemic Response Committee meetings? The video and voice quality of the participants has been uniformly awful. Most of them look like YouTube videos circa 2007
    
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    April 8, 2020 6:15pm
lastmanstanding

I hope the Government has ensured the regulator has processes in place to prevent third parties investors swooping on distressed companies and other strategic assets especially investors from the country that bought us Wuhan Flu.

The NZX currently has decade plus opportunities with PEs at historically low levels. Its a buyers dream.

As I have posted before we shouldnt underestimate the geopolitical opportunity Covid-19 provides the CCP to strengthen its economic grip on countries such as ours by stealth.

The longer term ramifications are influence on the strategic direction on their investments to their benefit over that of other investors. As Bright Diary as shown it only requires a 35% in a company to control the strategy and policy.
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April 8, 2020 9:20am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Indeed, I think Australia has already moved to prevent vulture capitalism from our overseas friends
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:48am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Desperate sellers should be prevented from contact with potential buyers? To whose benefit would that be?
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:23am
graham

Good.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12323308

Covid 19 coronavirus: Mayor expelled after saying Boris Johnson ‘deserves this’

A UK mayor has been expelled from the Labour Party after saying that Prime Minister Boris Johnson “deserved” the Covid-19 infection which has seen him admitted to intensive care.

Sheila Oakes, who is mayor of the Derbyshire town of Heanor, went on Facebook to say: “he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PMs we’ve ever had”.

Her comments generated a furious response online and led to her local branch of the Labour Party expelling her, saying they were “appalled and very disappointed”.

Good on the UK Labour Party for taking swift action.
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April 8, 2020 9:21am
- peterwn
  
  Now the councillors should remove her as Mayor. AFAIK, in the UK mayors are elected by their councils, not by residents.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:35am
  - MrTips
    
    Geez, she may have failed to show common human decency but she certainly didn’t fail to show up to the buffet table by the look of her.
    
    Arse-card well and truly deserved.
    
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    April 8, 2020 10:47am
    - Nickc2
      
      We know who ate all the pies.
      
      6 1
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      April 8, 2020 12:53pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Jewish Organisations in the UK have said that Lier Starmer has done more in 5 days to stamp out anti Semitism in the party than Corbyn did in 5 days
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:26am
- RW Capitalist
  
  I will reserve judgement on the Labour Party (UK).
  Reviewing their behaviour over a lifetime, I would say this chap is the only one to be dumb enough, to say it out loud.
  
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  April 8, 2020 12:37pm
Gravelroad

A left wing Mayor in the UK has tweeted that Boris Johnson “completely deserves” to be battling coronavirus in an ICU ward. This has prompted many other “kind” socialists to join in wishing the UK Prime Minister ill.
This kind of creepy, extremist stuff is why I am not on Twitter.
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April 8, 2020 9:22am
- Biscuit
  
  From the Times (of London) Diary:
  
  SMALL MERCY
  
  It was heartening to see that political point-scoring was largely suspended when Boris Johnson went into hospital.
  It reminded me of the story when Eric Morecambe had a heart attack in 1968.
  Des O’Connor, who was mocked by Morecambe every week [on The Morecambe and Wise Show’], heard the news during a gig and stopped to wish his ‘tormentor’ well.
  Later, Morecambe was told that O’Connor had asked his entire audience to pray for him.
  He was touched – but not changed.
  ‘Those six or seven people might have made all the difference’, he said
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:45am
andrewo

This is MUST SEE viewing from Sky Australia last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPPUSQjK5A
20 1
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April 8, 2020 9:23am
- rangitoto
  
  We could do with a few MPs like that.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:52am
Aunty

Audrey Young. What an embarrassment!

Dear, oh dear, oh dear. This is the best that the Herald can come up with? Pathetic.

It’s called retirement, Audrey. Maybe you should seriously think about it?
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April 8, 2020 9:24am
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

NZ Herald (Barry Soper) April 2018

“Jacinda Ardern flies back into the country this morning. Although she hardly needed a plane to get her home given this past week she has been riding high, [sic] with her feet hardly touching the ground, being motorcaded through the leading capitals of Europe meeting many world leaders for the first time.

This isn’t even pretend journalism. It’s the creation of a massive Cult of the Personality no different from ‘Chairman Mao will live one thousand years’.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12037557
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April 8, 2020 9:27am
Lee C

I gotta be honest I’m considering voting ACT for the first time ever.
36 3
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April 8, 2020 9:35am
- Random T Person
  
  I’ll be voting ACT again this election. Seymour and the broader party have performed incredibly well. Sign up for the newsletter if you want to see some eminently sensible commentary and policy.
  
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  April 8, 2020 9:50am
kevn

Ch31 on TV for the ERC, live. Economics/business aspect.
Thur same time for Social/education theme.
Hard questions and answers in a public forum.
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April 8, 2020 9:39am
barnacle bill

More high praise from abroad for our Leader.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12323335
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April 8, 2020 9:40am
fernglas

Those smug bastards who think that this shutdown has “annihilated” the illness need only wait until the flu season starts in New Zealand to watch it rampage through communities which have overcrowding, poor sanitation, high density per living unit, diabetes, heart disease, high levels of smoking obesity and other comorbidities. The shutdown, if it is to save those lives, will need to extend until there is a vaccine. Who will be left standing after 18 months more in lockdown?
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April 8, 2020 9:46am
Allan

I am definitely voting ACT because the way the Police State is being enacted so rapidly under Comrade Ardern in my view is rather frightening and needs to be halted in its tracks. The menacing messages being sent out by the Police about road blocks, stopping vehicles without due cause and entering private homes without a warrant is really getting to me. Talk about destruction of liberties and rights by an overbearing bunch of Nazis. I am losing all faith in the Police however knowing what Comrade Ardern’s Political views are it doesnt surprise me that she has done this. At this stage the lone voice in the wilderness issuing statements questioning this is David Seymour and that is the reason he will be getting my vote.
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April 8, 2020 9:48am
- Surely Knott
  
  Same. First time ACT voter.
  
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  April 8, 2020 3:09pm
kowtow

Wuflu wave two.

‘Thousands of mainland travellers flocked to catch trains leaving coronavirus-ravaged Wuhan early on Wednesday as authorities lifted a more than two-month ban on outbound travel from the city where the global pandemic first emerged.’

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1519459-20200408.htm
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April 8, 2020 9:52am
Maggie Pie

Last night i overheard one of the Filipino girls at work saying she
didn’t like Jacinda Adern.
Should i report her to the Police via the lockdown breach form?
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April 8, 2020 9:54am
- Shut the hell up you Fascist!
  
  Yes, report her comrade.
  
  16 2
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  April 8, 2020 11:24am
Lee C

I had a brain-wave today – On the back of this – National will win the next election. Labour will be invited to participate in the National Led Government – Simon Bridges will signal this intention at some stage.

Ideas?
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April 8, 2020 10:02am
- barnacle bill
  
  You missed by 7 days.
  
  Today is the 8th, not the 1st of April.
  
  9 3
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  April 8, 2020 10:10am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Lee C bro – I have a free admission pass for you in a mental asylum run by my mother-in-law in Stewart Island.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good fishing – you caught two so far
  
  10 3
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  April 8, 2020 11:08am
- chukar
  
  Lee C
  I have been very frightened of the possibility of NZ becoming a one party government going forward.
  
  This is the logical outcome of MMP.
  
  It is how communism works , an all powerful state and no individual or property rights.
  
  And no point bothering with elections
  
  Chukar
  
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  April 8, 2020 11:59am
- curry4me
  
  LeeC: If Simon wants to destroy National, that’d be a great idea.
  
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  April 8, 2020 6:23pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Hey Curry, what you are on is not legal yet.
    
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    April 8, 2020 8:15pm
Ruahine

Does anyone know how many people working in the supermarkets have contracted the virus whilst working since the ‘lockdown’?
How many people working in the Media have contracted the virus since the ‘lockdown’?
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April 8, 2020 10:07am
DeepBlue

Martyn Bradbury should go down like the UK Labour MP’s who attacked Boris:

‘…I won’t shed one god damned tear for a man who was willing to kill half a million of his own people so that the fucking economy could keep going.

He and his fellow Death Cult Capitalism acolytes like Matthew Hooton, Gareth Morgan and Mike Hosking can all share the same ironic fate as far as I am concerned.’
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April 8, 2020 10:12am
- MrTips
  
  Has he finally decided on the spelling of his name? Good for him and the electoral roll.
  
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  April 8, 2020 10:48am
rightoverlabour

Incompetence Pure and simple. Yes, this falls squarely at the feet of Jacinda and her government.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323338
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April 8, 2020 10:17am
Jack5

Have the open halal butcheries given any Muslims Covid-19?
11 1
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April 8, 2020 10:29am
rangitoto

Jesus has been located:

https://twitter.com/reider/status/1247642252509413376

and it’s not Easter yet.
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April 8, 2020 10:31am
Jack5

Condolences from one of those who regard NZ firearms regulations as oppressive to gun retailer and spokesman David Tipple, and to his six children, on the sudden death of wife and mother Betsy Tipple.

You don’t have to share the Tipples’ views to see this religious family has been staunch, even brave, in its stand.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120873006/gun-city-coowner-betsy-tipple-dies
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April 8, 2020 10:53am
YesMinister

40% of the economy now on life support via Government subsidy (ie, money that will have to be paid back at some point by someone.)

Remind me when we all agreed to all this again?

Remind me when “lock down” became something we meekly accept?

Remind me why, going forward, any business person should bother earning anything more than what directly supports them and their families ever again, given the government explicitly considers most NZ business non-essential, and yet still expects those businesses to take on crippling debt in order to keep functioning as life support for their workforce and to pay tax.

Remind me how the heck we’re supposed to have a tax base to pay back debt, let alone pay for the endless social safety net a good portion of the population now consider to be their right to inhabit when apparently business is not actually essential?

Is anybody else furious at the way this is playing out? I am.
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April 8, 2020 10:59am
Brian McDonald

Here’s what I wrote to Robertson and sent a copy to the Covid 19 committee. Trust anyone else with any ideas will send them along as there is a faint hint of steam building up in the boiler again.

Automatic extensions for vehicle COFs, WOFs and regos for vehicles off-road during Level 4/3/2/1 Shutdown.
Commercial Rents
Suggestion for level 3 shutdown status when returned – takeaway foods delivery permitted as approved.

Dear Minister Robertson
Rt Hon Simon Bridges chair of:
Cc Parliamentary Covid 19 Committee

Dear Sir

Thank you for the many sharp responses for business at this time.
In our case the wage subsidy had lifted a huge pressure, and our small staff are happy with the certainty it has brought in the meantime as the crisis is curtailed

I am writing re automatic extensions for COF, WOF and Registration for vehicles over the shutdown period(s,) Compliance costs for COF’s are very high for heavy trucks/trailers because of the particular certifications (turntables, couplings etc) that have to be updated each time. That cost registers as a one off for a 6 month period, to lose any of those months (or part thereof) during this time is an extra financial pressure for businesses restarting. If the down time period is simply added to the date of existing registration and COF stickers the compliance costs will be low and could simply require a generic response to an application made on an online form to the MOT and which could be retained in the vehicle. An example is that a business may be able to return to work in or near the month of its certificate renewals and be struck by those charges straight away along with any necessary repairs, it would also meant that a 6 months period for compliance has been shortened without price reduction. The same applies to the public’s use of their own vehicles.

A further appreciation of this to be considered is for the testing facilities. They would be rushed to do up the lapsed COF, Warrants from during the lockdown period with COFs and WOFs falling due after that period.

A business could apply for a confirmation period from MOT on an electronic form informing of the new expiratory date of the sticker. A printout of that date could be kept in the vehicle. For private cars it may be just as easy for the Government to nominate the period for all cars to policing staff to add the number of weeks to the expiratory date at the time of any road side stops.

The above seems entirely fair and does not compromise vehicle safety because the extended period will in fact be replacing a dormant period

Secondly, you have said that tenants and landlords should speak to one another re rents. That is a lot of moving parts during a time of crisis and already there are demonstrations of imbalance of power between landlords and commercial tenants revealed as being in both directions in the press. The idea of paying for something that a person cannot access is unsound.

Would the Government give consideration to part paying rents with some balance being paid up to some percentage if the particular company can afford to do so? I imagine landlords could receive some tax credit on that basis, rather than a cash payment. Rents are a big part of business, budgets for those returning to return to work either fully or part time through the levels will find that tough and put pressure on staffing levels.

Finally, and with no interest in any takeaway food business. I would like to suggest that many businesses have the capacity to deliver prepared food during level 3 Alert. It would be well-appreciated by both those businesses and the public alike and have the other positive effects on boosting the economy.

I am taking the liberty to send this to the Parliamentary Covid 19 committee as a matter of courtesy.

Yours sincerely
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April 8, 2020 11:23am
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

Call me Mr Grumpy or Fascist, but I am beginning to complete loath teddy bears. They represent everything which is wrong with Jacinda and her adorers.

What can I put in my window to represent the danger to the economy?
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April 8, 2020 11:27am
- rightoverlabour
  
  A blow up doll. We are being right royally F$%$^$^%ed …
  
  13 1
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  April 8, 2020 11:42am
- Shut the hell up you Fascist!
  
  Don’t tell Cindy that the teddy bear was named after a Republican president!
  
  20 1
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  April 8, 2020 11:52am
- kowtow
  
  A candle , cos a lot of people will struggle to pay their power bills……..
  
  15 1
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  April 8, 2020 11:53am
- YesMinister
  
  Someone in Wellington, I think, put mannequin heads on stakes with blood running from the eyes. Then people got grumpy because that wasn’t helping with the grand distraction we’re all supposed to be participating in, as if the economy collapsing can be avoided with some goofy smiles and entertainment for the kiddies. In Ardern’s govt, we are all treated like toddlers. Nothing we do matters, it’s not essential, now go home and be good.
  
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  April 8, 2020 11:58am
- Jules99
  
  I was thinking it would be good to put a picture of the NZ flag, especially with Anzac day coming up.
  
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  April 8, 2020 12:02pm
  - Nickc2
    
    ANZAC Day? Forget it, it’s been cancelled by the Ardern Government for the 2nd time in a row.
    
    17 2
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    April 8, 2020 12:28pm
    - Ruahine
      
      I wonder what excuse they will use next year. The one last year was insulting.
      
      8 1
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      April 8, 2020 1:06pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Who knows? Hopefully, the Communists won’t be in power then and we will have the adults running our country again.
        
        5 3
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        April 8, 2020 2:14pm
    - MCos
      
      It wasn’t cancelled last year. I went to the parade in Onehunga.
      
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      April 8, 2020 2:18pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Really? We were forbidden from having a parade here (North Shore). We had an unofficial get-together indoors, but no parade etc. That was an edict from Government and NZRSA as I recall.
        
        8 1
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        April 8, 2020 2:28pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Ok MCos, as an adjunct to my previous, here’s proof there was no parade etc on the North Shore.
        
        Speech made indoors:
        “There is no doubt that the recent tragic event in Christchurch has had a real impact on life in New Zealand in many ways. That is no more apparent than today with the unfortunate cancellation of many ANZAC Day services across Auckland, including the three services that we normally hold in Kaipatiki at Birkenhead, Glenfield and Northcote.
        So I would like to extend my sincere thanks to the Birkenhead RSA for holding today’s service, and accommodating it here in their clubrooms, so that we can take a moment to come together as a community to commemorate the New Zealanders killed in war and honour our returned service personnel.”
        
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        April 8, 2020 2:45pm
- rockape
  
  [Sorry no, not even as a joke. Mod]
  
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  April 8, 2020 12:03pm
- Nickc2
  
  An AR-15 Rifle may do the trick. Oh, that’s right, they were confiscated weren’t they. Maybe an effigy of a Mongrel Mob member would do the trick. At lease it will scare the shit out of the teddy bear.
  
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  April 8, 2020 12:05pm
Batman

Taking a positive view today, so good to see the President of the US reaching out to thank healthcare workers:

“It’s World Health Day, and we owe a profound debt of gratitude to all our medical professionals. They’re still giving their all for us every day, at great risk to themselves, and we can’t thank them enough for their bravery and their service.”

https://bit.ly/3c1Gtc0
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April 8, 2020 11:39am
Bell-47

Good god, trying to watch the parliament CV19 stream, I have Gb full speed fibre and the stream is similar to 56k modem. It’s important info, FFS what are the IT people doing?
12 1
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April 8, 2020 11:57am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Nothing to do with the fibre. TV1 has been carrying it and today it was a complete cockup.
  
  11 0
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  April 8, 2020 2:59pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Do you think it’s deliberate?
    
    4 0
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    April 8, 2020 3:02pm
lazza

How refreshing (and novel), to have questions of the Epidemic Response Committee addressed directly, accurately and devoid of politics by qualified people, who know the answers. One wonders then, if in future, Parliamentary procedures might adapt and learn from this model?
23 0
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April 8, 2020 12:25pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  makes a hell of a lot of difference:
  not having Mallard there running deflection,
  not having Ardern there spouting platitudes,
  not having Winston there interrupting.
  
  26 2
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  April 8, 2020 12:41pm
- Nickc2
  
  One can but live in hope.
  
  8 1
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  April 8, 2020 12:42pm
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. I said this after watching the first day, they should dump parliament and have something like this. they all seem so grown up. and far more respectful across parties.
  
  11 1
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  April 8, 2020 12:56pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The ERC is operating as any other select committee does. The theatrics of Question Time, which is all most people ever see, are not representative of what MPs actually do. Those commenting above who think otherwise have probably never seen a select committee hearing before.
  
  1 9
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  April 8, 2020 1:57pm
oldfella

EMPLOYEE NOTICE
**************************
Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown in the economy, the Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 50 years of age and above on early, mandatory retirement, thus creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the Government to be considered for the SHAFT program (Special Help After Forced Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (System Covering Retired-Early Workers).

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the Government deems appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED could get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependents & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance).

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED or SCREWED any further by the Government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The Government has always prided themselves on the amount of SHIT they give our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your MP, who has been trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Sincerely, The Committee for Economic Value of Individual Lives (E.V.I.L.)

PS – Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas and oil, as well as current market conditions,
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

Stay Kind
Love
Jacinda
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April 8, 2020 12:44pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Brilliant…
  
  You need to repost this at 8am Tomorrow on GD.
  
  It gets lost this far down the thread.
  
  14 2
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  April 8, 2020 2:23pm
  - oldfella
    
    Maggy, don’t get to my computer till mid morning (workout, etc). But… if you want to copy it and post it bright and early, go for it. Not as if I created it, although I wish I had. Happy for you to share it around. Will look out for it when I log on, and be sure to give it an uptick. 🙂
    
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    April 8, 2020 4:55pm
Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999

“Prisoner #4000000” died of emphysema, I mean coronavirus.
10 2
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April 8, 2020 12:44pm
- doggone7
  
  Great, a prisoner who lived to tell the tale and throw the big numbers around. And ne’er a funeral to attend!
  
  4 1
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  April 8, 2020 3:12pm
Nickc2

@cmm
Thanks, well explained.
1 1
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April 8, 2020 12:49pm
Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999

Police sirens wail through the streets of Milford.

Apparently a criminal and his reprobate wife drove to the beach for a walk because they were going stir crazy.

That’ll learn ’em. Go mad at home.
17 1
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April 8, 2020 12:53pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5UIz0lqGtg
Ten million Americans jobless in just two weeks. Small businesses can’t long endure a long lockdown.
Most jobless claims since figures were recorded. Many categories not counted. President Trump made a strong economy the main point of his re-election campaign. Time to start the printing presses.
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April 8, 2020 12:59pm
- Harriet
  
  At anyone time there are 15 million Americans between jobs, now there are 25 million, that’s still less than 1%. Of course you then also have the long term unemployed added to that, but it’s less than 1% more of a work force from a population of 350 million.
  
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  April 8, 2020 4:36pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBp6-9NFGkg
Brussels ignores Italy at its peril. Bit of a North South gap opening up.
Italy has been hardest hit. Up to 67% of people are anti EU. No Eurobond issue likely.
France would like an EU wide fund to help members in difficulty. It won’t be easy for them though.
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April 8, 2020 1:00pm
Overworked

The Labour summer camp criminal has lost his case for name suppression:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323390

but is hoping to appeal. Would he be getting legal aid or would his family have very deep pockets?
13 2
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April 8, 2020 1:17pm
- DeepBlue
  
  How would one interpret this from the Herald article:
  
  There had also been no suggestion, and no evidence, that the offender has any personal connection to the present Labour Party or any member of it, the judge added.
  
  13 1
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  April 8, 2020 2:17pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I interpret it as the offender having a personal connection to a member of a previous Labour Party.
    
    10 2
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    April 8, 2020 3:24pm
    - Overworked
      
      That’s a very narrowly worded statement, though. There could be a connection to a current Labour member, but without any suggestion or evidence in court to the effect? Or has listening to Jacinda’s promises caused me to habitually scrutinize wording to look for loopholes?
      
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      April 8, 2020 6:00pm
  - cmm
    
    That seems very weird. He obviously has connections with the Labour party and is friends with people there or he would not have been there. Those are “personal connections”.
    
    He would also, most likely, have met Ardern when she visited them earlier that day and chatted to them. There are only a few.
    
    The whole lot stinks to high heaven.
    
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    April 8, 2020 6:07pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  The judge said the following: “”While [the man] did not sexually offend, his actions still legitimately attract public scrutiny, including from within his own community and prospective employers.”
  
  How is doing what he did, not “sexual offending”?
  
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  April 8, 2020 5:27pm
- cmm
  
  This is another classic case of redirection.
  
  The people who should be before the beak are the Labour party members & MPs who ran the event and supplied the booze and set this up to happen.
  
  Where are the charges for supplying booze to minors? Why is the MP that should have been in charge of the event not facing the court? Why is she (I believe it is a she) still in Parliament?
  
  Where are the charges for interfering with justice by trying to manage this as an internal Labour matter instead of a criminal matter? All the Labour people involved in that cover up have conspired to defeat justice – enough to get them throw out of parliament. They talked to witnesses and tried to get them to change or moderate their position. That’s known as witness tampering.
  
  PriNZess was there earlier that day. I would not be surprised if she knew the party was happening and there was booze.
  
  While the young man involved should face consequences it is wrong that he is being hung out to dry. The adults should be facing consequences too.
  
  If the cops did their job instead of harrassing surfers, there would be a bunch of very senior Labour people in the dock. We won’t see that any time though. It has all been magicked away.
  
  Still the bus wheels need to be fed and the young man is taking it for everyone.
  
  I hope they payoff is worth it kid!
  
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  April 8, 2020 5:41pm
- Overworked
  
  I apologise, he isn’t in fact a crim. I should have paid more attention – discharged w/o conviction.
  
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  April 9, 2020 12:52pm
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/rockybalbowie/status/1245874482046070785/photo/1
4 1
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April 8, 2020 1:24pm
Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999

Empty hospitals. Police on leave. It goes on.

When the Easter Bunny is an essential worker, how essential are the other ‘essential workers’?
15 2
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April 8, 2020 1:26pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  I posed this late yesterday.
  Went to wifes Doctor at hospital, first ever Dr she has seen in over a year, with her life threatening condition.
  She has seen a nurse, who relays things to Dr’s and back to her. But not a Dr.
  He cleared up a lot of things, it was excellent, he was excellent.
  BUT as an aside, we have made several visits to the hospital over the past year.
  Usually busy and buzzing.
  Today it was a ghost town, the busiest people were office workers moving files around. There were more security guards than nurses.
  Now I know why the only things we see on TV are film of ICU’s from the USA. Britain, Spain and Italy BUT not NZ.
  
  11 2
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  April 8, 2020 2:01pm
  - doggone7
    
    What a bugger eh? It would have been so much better to see chaotic scenes in local hospitals on our TVs. It would have been so good to see our people distraught about their dead and wailing about not taking more significant steps earlier.
    
    1 8
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    April 8, 2020 3:07pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      … [snipped]
      They, the MSM and CoL are trying to paint a picture of heroic desperation, at our hospitals.
      When the opposite is true, there’s almost nobody there.
      People have to suffer at home with cancelled:
      Knee replacements
      Hip replacement
      and other elective surgeries.
      Quite apart from those with chronic on going conditions.
      
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      April 8, 2020 4:27pm
Critical Thinker

NZ on day 14 of the dystopian lockdown:
969 confirmed cases of the China Coronavirus.
282 recovered.
12 currently in hospital. 4 of them are in ICU.
1 died with the China Coronavirus. (73 year old woman, that already had an underlying chronic health condition, whom refused to be put on a ventilator).

It’s now time to downgrade this extreme lockdown to level 3 and properly secure our borders ?
20 2
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April 8, 2020 1:56pm
MCos

John Prine, singer, died today, helped along by Covid-19.
You may or may not heard of him.
Here is one of his songs, which seems appropriate under the circumstances
https://youtu.be/l0EiV423j0M
4 0
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April 8, 2020 2:11pm
Fletch

I am thinking of writing a libretto – The Well Stocked Frigidaire. ?
5 0
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April 8, 2020 2:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZVQOfkITU
  
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  April 8, 2020 5:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Refreshing. She has had a lot of pressure and has decided to do it. Not ruling out a Presidential bid in 2024 either. Here comes the first Black Woman POTUS.
https://theconservativedaily.site/opinion/candace-owens-warns-aoc/?fbclid=IwAR2sxWlO_cTha07PPh21PfwcYEWDSxIa4T6oOK4Pvyhxn-ICzU-KnjRnG58
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April 8, 2020 2:47pm
Captain Mainwaring

So Air NZ 777s are making daily flights to Frankfurt via Vancouver, chartered by the German Govt., and returning empty despite hundreds of Kiwis trying to get back from Germany.
I understand Winston is in charge of this debacle. Where are his negotiation skills?
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April 8, 2020 3:04pm
- Nickc2
  
  He left them in a Wine Box some where. They were never rated very highly anyway.
  They were good at bludging other peoples money and lying about it (Owen Glen) but that’s about it.
  
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  April 8, 2020 3:18pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Not supporting Peters at all, but I have noticed references to the Winebox Inquiry sometimes seem to assume there was no dodgy dealing.
    
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    April 8, 2020 5:52pm
    - Nickc2
      
      The winebox was merely a receptacle in which to keep his skills close at hand. That said, as you will no doubt agree, it was a very soggy very small winebox whose bottom had fallen out through cheap wine seepage thus towards the end of Winston’s tenure under Helen Clark, all skills such as they were, were lost forever. Having lost any skills he thought he may have had, he chose to transition into the bitter and twisted old fool we see today. Sad really, he wasn’t a bad rugby player when he played for University in the Auckland comp. He should have stuck with rugby, it’s a far more honourable game than politics.
      
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      April 8, 2020 8:11pm
- Poppa
  
  I am sure he will send other ones up there empty to get them
  
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  April 8, 2020 3:33pm
- barnacle bill
  
  Now are you sure of your facts there Captain.
  
  Freight, have you ever heard of the word ?
  
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  April 8, 2020 3:34pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    These flights are taking German tourists home. Nothing to do with freight, and Frankfurt isn’t a normal Air NZ destination.
    In your efforts to defend Winston you are making an arse of yourself.
    
    7 2
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    April 8, 2020 4:23pm
    - barnacle bill
      
      @Captain.
      
      You are not very observant Captain are you ?
      But then, your hatred of Winston sure has fogged up your brain.
      
      I say word again, Freight.
      
      Because of the limited number of passenger planes arriving in NZ at the moment, which always carries freight in normal times the Govt has made reciprocal arrangements with other airlines to do that.
      Never mind, I know I am wasting my time trying to learn you anything.
      
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      April 8, 2020 4:49pm
      - barnacle bill
        
        @captain
        
        You did make the statement that the planes are returning empty.
        
        0 5
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        April 8, 2020 4:56pm
  - cmm
    
    How much freight do we get from Germany?
    
    Yes, some can go in the passenger cabin but most still travels in the hold. Most airlines get upset if you scuff the seats.
    
    7 0
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    April 8, 2020 5:24pm
    - barnacle bill
      
      Well actually at the moment we are getting a lot of freight from Germany apparently.
      It is to do with medical supplies related to the Covid-19
      Naturally most freight will be in the cargo holds.
      
      2 2
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      April 8, 2020 7:15pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Where are his negotiation skills?
  answer:
  They are a phantom of his own imagination.
  
  7 1
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  April 8, 2020 3:41pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Negotiation is so passé.
  
  Napping is more de rigueur.
  
  5 1
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  April 8, 2020 5:22pm
cmm

WTF are people doing spitting on cops, or anyone for that matter.

What kinda scummy ferals do that?
16 0
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April 8, 2020 3:37pm
- JamesP
  
  (Accidental report sorry)
  
  Spitting is sadly the goto option when they have been handcuffed but are still enraged about having lost.
  
  A few years back it was understood such behaviour would earn you a tap or two to remind you that you’d lost. So it tended not to happen. Same with pursuits. Now with “muh rights”, cellphones everywhere, IPCA, etc. it happens all the time because there is no real consequence.
  
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  April 8, 2020 4:12pm
RW Capitalist

Tomorrow my risk of death by covid 19 triples.
I move into the 60-69 age group.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
There garnered enough sympathy?
Send money (sucker)
Or anything you can park out front will do.
Ya see if you are in real danger you have to beg for money, but if you are dole bludger this useless CoL will take money from me and give it to you.
8 0
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April 8, 2020 3:40pm
- cmm
  
  Happy birthday for tomorrow RW!
  
  Just remember: You’re only as old as the woman you feel!
  
  10 0
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  April 8, 2020 5:19pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    My wife is 5 yrs older than me (I’m the toy boy)
    So what does that say?
    
    5 0
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    April 8, 2020 6:25pm
    - cmm
      
      Rubbish. She’s 39. Pity she’s had 24 thirty-ninth birthday.
      
      4 0
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      April 8, 2020 7:31pm
MCos

‘Essential’ party propaganda
https://twitter.com/ashcustomworks/status/1247003095759872001?s=21
2 4
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April 8, 2020 4:03pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  No, a valuable community information service. The National Party is not campaigning.
  
  1 7
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  April 8, 2020 5:38pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    No, not at the moment. Because they don’t want to turn the current crisis into a political scrap.
    Imagine if the boot was on the other foot.
    
    4 0
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    April 8, 2020 9:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How Singapore safeguards its health workers

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3077345/coronavirus-why-so-few-infections-singapores-health
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April 8, 2020 4:10pm
RW Capitalist

Q;
They are crowing about 3000 (odd) tests per day.
So by the time they have tested even half the population of NZ it will be 800 days
2.2 YEARS
2yrs, 1 month and 1 week
So by the time they have tested HALF the population, in order to get an accurate model and considering the rest of the world believes this could be a seasonal thing.
We would already have had 2 rounds of this thing.
and still they blow their own trumpet, as if they are achieving something.
But should not be surprised, they did the same with Pike river, ie. didn’t tell people it would cost billions and take 20 yrs.
5 1
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April 8, 2020 4:34pm
cmm

Apparently a poll shows 87% support our government’s handling of Covid and that is better than anywhere in G7.

But it’s an online poll…
*Were the G7 polls also online polls?
* How ere the participants selected?

I really struggle to believe the 87%. Even the most one-eyed Labour-loving Trump-hating people I work with are griping.

If they are it is thanks to the spin machine, not the actual players.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120911320/coronavirus-public-surge-in-trust-of-government-and-national-pride
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April 8, 2020 4:46pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  The real poll will be the election (if it happens).
  And all the people who will have lost their businesses and jobs will get to vote.
  
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  April 8, 2020 5:04pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Would you be asking the same questions if the poll returned 87% anti … 🙂
  
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  April 8, 2020 5:25pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Colmar Brunton did it. Generally accepted as a respectable polling organisation …
  
  1 7
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  April 8, 2020 6:02pm
  - cmm
    
    A name does not fix a broken strategy.
    
    4 0
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    April 8, 2020 7:41pm
rightoverlabour

Greta. In case we forgot about her.

https://watchers.news/2020/04/07/bilzzard-iceland-april-2020/

Great spring they are having with all this global warming…..
6 1
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April 8, 2020 4:58pm
Ian Boag

Herd immunity and all that.

There are a few good test beds around the world where we will be able to get a good handle on just how serious this virus can be in close-together societies.

Refugee camps . There are almost a million Rohyngas parked on some hills in Bangladesh, a couple of grossly overloaded ones in Greece and not to forget Syria. Among others ….

Immunity will be measured by how many are alive in 6 months time I guess. Might not be a lot of testing. Mortality stats might not be very accurately split into age groups and stuff.
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April 8, 2020 5:18pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The fact the you exist is largely due to the successful herd immunity of your ancestors. They didn’t have swabs, vaccines or 1pm speech-from-the-throne epidemic ‘updates’
  
  7 0
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  April 8, 2020 6:05pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Heaps of said ancestors just carked it … just like they did from TB and plague and smallpox and typhoid and typhus and and and …..
    
    We should just let it rip?
    
    2 5
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    April 8, 2020 6:31pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Let rip? No. But cower as we are now, like rats in a hole? No also. There is a smart path, but it’s way, way beyond Ardern.
      
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      April 8, 2020 9:30pm
Fletch

I see that the govt is going to be sending out thousands of modems and devices to enable school kids to get online. I hate to think how this will affect the bandwidth of the country… You can bet your bottom dollar that they will be using this for more than schoolwork…
4 0
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April 8, 2020 6:05pm
- Ian Boag
  
  If you want a “plug and go” modem it will be one of the Huawei cellular ones. Skinny do them as a commercial deal for $100 and $40/mo for 120 GB (up from 60GB). For some people there is a version called “Spark Jump” which is even cheaper. Not that I expect these handouts to be charged for …
  
  The bandwidth it gobbles will be cellular …. dunno how that pans out.
  
  3 1
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  April 8, 2020 6:36pm
  - Fletch
    
    And considering that I am on rural cellular…. ?
    The networks are already under strain because of everyone having to work from home. This will only make it much worse.
    
    3 0
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    April 8, 2020 6:48pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120911320/coronavirus-public-surge-in-trust-of-government-an.d-national-pride

Well, they never asked me
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April 8, 2020 6:28pm
- Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999
  
  A poll commissioned by the government, paid for by the taxpayer, to determine how much they are loved by the people – and to be published!
  
  I guess it was only a sense of shame that the poll didn’t come back with 101% public support.
  
  LOL
  
  7 0
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  April 8, 2020 7:06pm
Tauhei Notts

I heard that the Kopu-Hikuai road had extensive police checks.
Anybody here prepared to comment?
3 0
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April 8, 2020 7:11pm

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