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April 15, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 April 2020

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General Debate

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Maggy Wassilieff

Jacinda is cool.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-52285061/jacinda-ardern-impressionist-i-m-trying-to-be-her-because-she-s-cool
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April 15, 2020 8:02am
- PhilBest
  
  When are the T-shirts coming? Move over, Che Guevara!
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:03am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    More likely to be make-up…along the lines of “natural glow”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB0hkQudNxA
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:17am
    - pdm
      
      Is `Natural Glow’ like after sex glow?
      
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      April 15, 2020 8:36am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      How do they fix the teeth and voice and intellect?
      
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      April 15, 2020 8:46am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Same as they did with Helen in the run up to the elections.
        
        Air Brush.
        
        And for Jacinda:
        Voice over.
        Pre written scripts with no opportunity to question her.
        
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        April 15, 2020 12:12pm
      - curry4me
        
        KebO’Brien: With great difficulty.
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:00pm
      - quarterpack
        
        Yes our Prime Minister has teeth that are bigger than average you have had over two years to get over that and perhaps post something constructive ?
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:19pm
      - Alex13
        
        Don’t worry Kev, I too hope that soon after the lockdown I’ll be able to get them fixed.
        
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        April 15, 2020 2:05pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Infused with smells that are irresistible to the commissariat: A mixture of blood, diesel and tears of sorrow.
      
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      April 15, 2020 8:46am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Sorry Phil you are late to the party. At least three companies sell a wide variety of Jacinda t shirts.
    
    https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/2236667-jacinda-ardern
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:18am
    - Durden
      
      Spirit animal. That would work for me. Mine is dog. .
      
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      April 15, 2020 12:41pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Phil and Maggy, did you catch Seven Sharp last night?
    
    It seems the Toothy poster girl is losing her shine in Aust. At the start of our lockdown JA was touted as the poster leader to follow, with her “Go early, go hard”, but no longer. Because:
    1. NZ’s stats per million of population are now no better than Aust; and
    2. JA and Robbo have screwed our economy for negligible benefit.
    
    So, the lady of “false dichotomies” is just that, a fake & her luster is fading….
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:18am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Yeah, but Aussie have 5 times the hospitalisation rates, and their level of lockdown, essentially level 3, will go on for six months.
      
      Time will tell which was the better idea.
      
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      April 15, 2020 11:27am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Hospitalisation rates world-wide are very variable and almost certainly not related to the degree of isolation. Maybe NZ has stricter criteria for one to be hospitalised ?
        
        There is research suggesting that in fact a high degree of isolation merely ensures that everyone in a household does get infected, leading to a lot of mini clusters and a lesser degree minimises that. Haven’t had the time to assess that work, sounds a bit uncertain to me, but who knows ?
        
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        April 15, 2020 7:12pm
- kowtow
  
  BBC ? ’nuff said.
  
  Meanwhile in the real world the CCP continues to tighten its deadly grip.
  
  ‘The independence of Hong Kong’s judicial system is under assault from the Communist Party leadership in Beijing according to senior judges in the SAR.’
  
  https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1520605-20200414.htm
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:14am
- SGA
  
  I don’t think people are appreciating that you are being sarcastic, Maggy.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:16am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    ” I must be cruel only to be kind; Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind.”
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:13am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yes, I am often disappointed that multiple downticks seem to be based on the assumption that the poster is sincere when it is obvious to me that they are being sarcastic.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:10am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Am I worried?
      
      I’ve never had a comment down-ticked into oblivion …(yet)
      
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      April 15, 2020 11:01am
      - Tall Man
        
        Sounds like a challenge to me Maggy 😉
        
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        April 15, 2020 3:00pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        And I don’t believe you have ever had a [Mod -Deleted] either. I have to say I admire your balance, intelligence and patience. I don’t think I have just scrolled on past one of your posts. ( Unlike certain others… )
        
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        April 15, 2020 5:20pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        We’ve tried, nothing like a challenge ! You probably need to say something truely silly though, which is not your wont.
        
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        April 15, 2020 7:14pm
- emmess
  
  On Tik Tok eh? A Chinese state controlled app is promoting an uncritical western leader.
  Why does that not surprise me?
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:23am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Tik Tok, Tik Tok
    
    Just their way of letting us know that time is marching on and when the bell strikes its all over.
    
    Seriously, If TikTok is anything like WeChat, stay away from it.
    
    WeChat is used to spy on its people and any Westerners that are dumb enough to use it.
    
    There are numerous tech news websites out there showing where WeChat has been caught stealing data. TenCent that owns WeChat has servers that a torrent of hacks come out of. So it is turning a blind eye to these hacks.
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:53am
  - SGA
    
    Yeah, that will be it. The CCP is probably secretly funding the comedian.
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:55am
    - emmess
      
      Did I say that?
      We all know how the algorithms work for the American tech giants which all have a left wing bias.
      Why would it be a surprise if a CCP controlled app is doing the same? In fact, it would be incredibly surprising if they weren’t.
      Once the channel came to the attention of a human, it may have been promoted.
      Hardly a controversial statement
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:05am
      - SGA
        
        If you want to think that this is some sort of CCP plot, go for it 🙂 .
        
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        April 15, 2020 9:15am
      - emmess
        
        Whatever you say, Cathy Newman
        
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        April 15, 2020 9:49am
- cmm
  
  Not before breakfast!
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:28am
- Iamright
  
  Just watching the SLG. Needed the bucket. She needs to cut out the political rhetoric. Getting heartily sick of her.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:16pm
Poppa

So according to Robo we are coming out of lockdown next week. OK good, but my bet is it won’t look much different than what it is now

Unless Cindy wants a haircut of course

Until we get down to level 1 or 2 the economy has no hope of recovery
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April 15, 2020 8:04am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes I agree. I am thinking L3 will probably allow more businesses to open and some retailers. They might throw a bone to restaurants by allowing take out and deliveries. However social isolation will remain. That means no getting in your car bubble and going for a drive. No visiting your friends.
  
  I hope I am mistaken.
  
  I want a haircut. FFS we will all look like Conan the Barbadian in 2 months.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:12am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The longer the lockdown the longer the deferment of individuals dealing with the virus.
    Are 70+ people expected to take up residence in mortuaries?
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:50am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Conan the Barbadian, didn’t know he was from the West Indies !
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:32am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      well spotted 🙂
      
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      April 15, 2020 10:27am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Indeed mon !
        
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        April 15, 2020 7:15pm
- kowtow
  
  The recovery will be very long and very painful .
  
  And why ?
  
  A crushing policy made on the run ,on the back of a panicked ‘phone call from a mysterious over seas friend.
  
  That’s how this country is run . It’s ruinous.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:19am
  - SGA
    
    The recovery will be very long and very painful .
    And why ?
    
    Because the entire global economy is taking a massive hit and our economy relies heavily on international trade and tourism? Am I close?
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:58am
    - stewmar
      
      The recovery will be very long and very painful .
      And why ?
      
      People still gotta eat and good is what we sell
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:06am
      - Sacha
        
        And if the past is anything to go by, the price of food in this country will rise to be equal to export prices.
        But junk food will be cheap –
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:07am
      - Paulus
        
        stewmar
        Only if you can pay for it !
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:33am
    - cmm
      
      Partially.
      
      The fact that we beat ourselves up for nothing does not help either.
      
      The global economy might have taken a hammering but there are still a lot of people who are wealthy enough to want premium goods. NZ just needs to sell to them.
      
      The low death rates etc might just enhance NZ’s “100% pure” image and make it a more desirable tourist destination.
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:58am
      - Sacha
        
        But everyone will be tested at the border and given the option of 14 days quarantine, or the next plane home if they test for any infectious conditions.
        And a $50k deposit for health care.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:10am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        And no reason at all not to allow in long-term tourists and students if they are prepared to do the 2 week quarantine.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:18am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Nope. Maybe Australians will come here. Long haul tourists from the northern hemisphere will be gone for two years.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:30am
      - SGA
        
        @cmm
        
        Partially.
        
        Given what’s happening in the world, cmm, our economy was going to take a hammering irrespective of whatever action a NZ govt took. Granted, different actions might help or hinder our recovery, but its speed is going to be heavily dependent on factors beyond our control. That’s way I see it, anyway.
        
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        April 15, 2020 11:56am
  - freethinker
    
    Wonder if arderns overseas friend has a chinese sounding name?
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:26am
    - Liberty
      
      More likely to have contacts in the Fabian Society.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society
      
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      April 15, 2020 10:27am
- MrTips
  
  I don’t see Robbo saying we’re coming out of lockdown next week. He’s said “when we come out….”, but have I missed something? Jacinda would be pissed if he did, because she will want her “spiche frum dah frone” on Monday.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    Interesting, I listened t Robbo this morning and he said a lot about FA IMHO. However, what was more interesting was that Hosking said words to the effect that there were essentially two camps in the Government arguing about the pros and cons of coming out of Lockup Stage 4. It appears there is one camp that comprises Robbo and Winston and the other that contains Cindy. There is no guessing about who wants to address the economy and who wants to further oversee government control over the peasants.
    
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    April 15, 2020 11:30am
- theoldbloke
  
  I wonder why Austria is never used by media in their blather about how good NZ is compared to other countries?
  They have a similar death rate to Germany, higher testing numbers and only 8.8 Million people.
  PS. Its a lovely country. I toured there in 2011. Reminded me of what NZ might have looked like if NZ was as old a society.
  
  Austria went hard and went early(16th March).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Austria
  
  and hey. Guess what they are starting to exit lockdown on 14th April…
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:52am
  - PhilBest
    
    Texas is starting to exit next week.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:11am
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/120969030/climate-change-commission-warns-dont-compound-covid19-with-climate-crisis

This is simply not true. Whatever New Zealand does on emissions will not cause a “climate crisis”. Because of course it is global emissions that matter. I am beginning to think that these journalists think that the effects are somehow localised so New Zealand emissions can cause a New Zealand “climate crisis”. Nothing would surprise me.

As for the Climate Commission, they would be best advised to keep their heads down for three years.
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April 15, 2020 8:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  Keep their heads down? No, rather I suggest there is somewhere from which they should remove their heads.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:42am
  - JackRabbit
    
    As a former boss once said, we reward intelligence, but don’t get so clever that your ears disappear up your back passage.
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:56am
Andrei

Since we are all into disaster porn at the moment, how about a very bad day at the office video?
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April 15, 2020 8:08am
- MrTips
  
  “So, did I pass my driving test?”
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:43am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Given how the prop appeared to be churning at significant revs the whole time, either someone was asleep at the wheel or something broke in the control system. Impressive how that crane just went to pieces and fell. And the tug being dragged along behind.
    
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    April 15, 2020 7:17pm
- JackRabbit
  
  I thought the daily broadcasts by the inept country leaders was disaster pron. I didn’t know it was real. Have I been missing something? /sarc
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:58am
Greg Ettridge

Who censored this video?
Utube states now is a private video, so private that there is zero details.
This post on Kiwiblog Sunday 12 April 2020

Ian Hawthorn
Found this on youtube. It deserves a wider audience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dTeUq5Bqeg

It was an emotional and detailed outline of events at Rosewood and Canterbury DHB’s
It posed some very valid questions, it has now conveniently disappeared.
The questions are now unfortunately becoming real as predicted.
The most open and transparent government.
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April 15, 2020 8:10am
- Grant
  
  Video is apparently unavailable
  G
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You think our government is censoring YouTube? What pills are you taking?
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:17am
  - cmm
    
    Ignorance is bliss.
    
    Of course they censor youtube. Access to videos is limited by country according to the whims of that country.
    
    That is easy to verify by using a VPN to access youtube and being able to access different content which is blocked elsewhere.
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:36am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      That’s a far, far different thing from our government censoring YouTube. You know that, of course, but just want to pretend Greg’s comment was sensible.
      
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      April 15, 2020 8:51am
      - cmm
        
        It is you who said our government does not censor youtube and that anyone who thinks they do needs pills trying to mock people who point out what is both well known, obvious and easy to verify.
        
        Of course they do censor youtube.
        
        Perhaps they did not do so in this case, but they do censor youtube all the time.
        
        WTF was all that “Christchurch call” stuff if not censorship?
        
        That said, NZ seems to censor less than many other countries.
        
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        April 15, 2020 9:11am
      - freethinker
        
        I have not seen that our “govt” censored but you have read something between the lines not written but it may be implied.Stick to the facts MM, [del. mod]
        
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        April 15, 2020 9:31am
      - PhilBest
        
        Of course we don’t know WHOSE “protest” to YouTube resulted in the censorship. We won’t ever know if it was the NZ government. I’d like YT to prove who else it was, before I believe it wasn’t.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:14am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      won’t come up on any country
      
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      April 15, 2020 8:55am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Hows your intravenous drip going?
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:59am
- cmm
  
  Emotion is not helpful. It screws up logical decision making.
  
  The Rosewood deaths are pretty much like what happened in Oregon: an infection runs through an old age home full of people unlikely to see the end of winter anyway and knocks a bunch of them over.
  
  We need to deal with the stark numbers or we end up with crap decision making.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    I think it needs to be repeated, until it is widely understood, that dementia patients in particular are virtually inevitable deaths at a time like now.
    
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200330082928/https:/www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/coronavirus-news-deutschland-wolfsburg-laschet-1.4828033
    
    “…In a German retirement and nursing home for people with advanced dementia, 15 test-positive people have died. However, many of these died without showing symptoms of corona. A German medical specialist informs us: “Some of these people may have died as a result of the measures taken. People with dementia get into high stress when major changes are made to their everyday lives: isolation, no physical contact, hooded staff. ”Nevertheless, the deceased are counted as “corona deaths“ in German and international statistics…”
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:29am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      Absolutely- I would be more interested in the number of people who have died because they couldn’t get timely care from their GP or hospital because of lockdown and fear of contracting covid if they had sought help. What about the price many families will pay from delayed cancer diagnoses? Late presentation myocardial infarction?
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:03am
      - cmm
        
        Yup.
        
        All the outpatients clinics (heart, cancer etc) are shut down at Christchurch Hospital and no doubt many, if not all, other hospitals too.
        
        Vital tests are not getting done. This is no doubt going to cost some lives or at least lead to worse outcomes for thousands of people.
        
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        April 15, 2020 9:16am
      - cmm
        
        Does the downticker think Chch hospital outpatient clinics are open?
        
        I wonder why I got a cancellation letter then?
        
        Note that there is no talk of rescheduling tests etc. These clinics work at more or less 100% capacity. It is going to be a shambles trying to catch up.
        
        The only practical ways to recover from 5+ weeks of shut down are:
        1) Run extra shifts until 9 or 10 pm to try catch up over a 3-4 month period.
        2) Not do tests that were previously deemed to be important, putting patients at risk.
        
        Lots of smaller procedures are being deferred too. That is going to lead to worse outcomes. Even something like an ingrowing toenail can lead to serious consequences if not dealt with promptly.
        
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        April 15, 2020 11:15am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        @CMM Dont worry about the Moer naaiers that down tick. Vok hulle almal.
        
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        April 15, 2020 5:33pm
  - BobbyS
    
    This was a stuff up of large proportions
    I have info from ppl close to the event
    Protocols on testing, isolation and general PPE use were not strictly adhered to
    Lapse after lapse creating the cluster we see today
    There are 650+ sites in NZ 99% have done really really well to stop the virus entering. They in fact closed the doors earlier than the country did
    Amazing action with shit loads of complaints from families but very necessary under the circumstances and its largely paying off
    Tough tough industry to be in
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:32am
    - cmm
      
      The cluster within the rest home does not really matter because it is isolated and contained. It is all inside one “bubble”.
      
      What really matters is keeping the disease inside the rest home once it gets there and preventing it from leaking out.
      
      What are far more worrying are the uncontrolled and porous clusters like the the Bluff wedding where people are still interacting and the cluster keeps expanding. There are perhaps 50 to 100 bubbles involved.
      
      Of course the most worrying is the secret cluster. WTF is going on there? I suppose we could just read between the lines…
      
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      April 15, 2020 10:05am
      - PhilBest
        
        Yeah but the good news is that hardly anyone is getting particularly sick let alone dying. Health officials are tracking people down and testing them, rather than people calling an ambulance and then being tested when they arrive at ICU.
        
        This is the essential difference between NZ and the places disaster porn movies have been made and used here to falsely scare us into submission.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:16am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And as happens every few years with a bad flu.
    
    Think of the NZ road toll. Now double it. That is how many people die on average from cross infections they pick up while in nursing homes and hospitals.
    
    That average of “double the road toll” is loosely consistent around the world.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:03am
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Can I extrapolate on your road toll analogy please?
      
      The annual road toll in the USA is about 38,000.
      
      That equates to 104 deaths from road accidents in the USA every day.
      
      The average number of deaths in the last 8 days in the USA from Covid 19 is 1885 per day.
      
      The first Covid 19 death recorded in the USA was on 1 March. That’s 45 days passed since the first recorded death. With the current total of deaths in the USA at 25,975, that is a daily average of 577 deaths per day.
      
      If we extrapolate that out, that is just over 210,000 deaths per year at the current rate at 577 per day, but if we look only at the last 8 days, that extrapolates to annual deaths of 688,025.
      
      Sources are US Center for Disease Control (CDC) and Johns Hopkins.
      
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      April 15, 2020 11:50am
      - JackRabbit
        
        I was not talking about the USA. My point was made specifically in reply to cmm’s post at 8.23am, in reference to the Rosewood nursing home, and the Covid-19 stats for NZ.
        
        As for the USA, we also do not know with any shred of certainty, how many of the 25,975 USA deaths are “death with” or “death by”. 7,700 people die every day in the USA. 61,000 every year from Influenza, concentrated in the flu season..
        
        It is well known in NZ that special precautions have to be taken by hospital workers and old age homes as those environments are ripe for cluster infection.
        
        The Rosewood nursing home is probably not so much an example of Covid-19 lethalness, but an abject failure of adhering to health protocols. Those people probably would have been bowled over by any other bad flu.
        
        While there was no vaccine for Covid-19, special precautions should have been taken, as detailed in this vaccine brochure which highlights the risk, as the carers are the most likely carriers.
        
        https://www.canterburyscl.co.nz/images/Infection_Control/LTCF_Info/Influenza_Vaccination.pdf
        
        Not only are old age homes literal Petri dishes for virus incubation, and the meals may be “nutritionally” sound, but absent of what they need to fortify the immune system. It is a battle getting old relatives good immune system food, and often the food will not be served. Same with supplements, often accepted but thrown in the bin by the carers.
        
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        April 15, 2020 12:55pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Go tell the families ccm you might be the one that gets knocked over. Maybe you haven’t been in NZ long enough to realise that many cultures here, including European cultures, value their elders highly. It was reported the community (a settled European community) from where the Wellington father, who caught Covid at his son’s wedding in Invercargill (and where safe practices were reported to have been followed,) came, were devastated by his death despite (yes) that he had underlying health issues.
    But you’re focusing on the wrong issue again, the steps were taken to stop wide community spread and is the reason we have so few clusters, not you divinely deciding on what is collateral damage and crowing the unprovable message that different steps should have been taken. If 1 infected person resulted in a cluster over 80. It could mean a 100 becomes 8000 and so on, and pressure on hospitals would have increased while community spread continued. Younger people with underlying conditions may have become sick, including children but hopefully, that won’t happen now.
    I find myself defending NZ cultures to a person not born here, something wrong about that. If you want to deride people for having emotion at least use your own name.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:46am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Yes, one does wonder about the reasons why some people continue with their anonymity while being borderline abusive at times. If you can’t say something without it causing harm to you were you to be identified it says a lot about what you were saying I believe. Some people would do well to consider that.
      
      4 10
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      April 15, 2020 11:35am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I do wish you were here writing those comments 4 years ago.
        
        5 1
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        April 15, 2020 12:41pm
    - cmm
      
      One of the differences I do have coming from a different background is having lived with, and seen, what a society looks like that really does not care about other people.
      
      I value elderly people as much as you do, but when we look at the numbers we need to avoid emotion and look at the big picture.
      
      We also need to be practical. We cannot throw everything away to prolong a few people’s lives by a few months, especially when the hidden costs in terms of lives is much higher.
      
      We can only keep people alive in these old age homes etc because we are wealthy enough to afford high levels of care. If we tank the economy we cannot afford a lot of things, including this high level aged care.
      
      That means more old people die earlier with a lower quality of life.
      
      So a short-sighted emotional reaction to save a few lives can easily kill far more people in the long run.
      
      As a society we make these trade-offs all the time. Just look at road deaths. We all know that we could cut the road deaths to less than 20 per year if everyone drove around at 20kph and anyone getting a speeding ticket was thrown in jail.
      
      But we don’t. We drive faster than that because we want the benefits of using the road to get from A to B faster.
      
      Is that because we don’t care about the 350-400 extra people who die in road crashes? No.
      
      13 3
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      April 15, 2020 11:37am
  - LTA1955
    
    What happens if we put a screen around all the rest homes this winter..may have an unintended consequence, no one dies because the yearly flu doesn’t get passed the front door as it usually does. A spike in the longevity statistics for the elderly 🙂
    
    4 1
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    April 15, 2020 12:39pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      And most will die from being abandonment. Sometimes the only thing an old person looks forward is visits by children and more importantly their grandchildren.
      
      6 1
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      April 15, 2020 1:03pm
- G152
  
  Greg
  Welcome to the world of back scratching censorship…
  Been going on for some time with many YouTube contributors falling foul of strange rules that do not apply to other more aligned contributors
  
  22 2
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  April 15, 2020 8:26am
  - PhilBest
    
    Apparently Jordan Peterson had something to say early on about the Coronavirus that has resulted in him being completely black-holed on all social media. I’d love to know what it was.
    
    17 3
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    April 15, 2020 10:18am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Probably something sane and intelligent.
      
      9 1
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      April 15, 2020 1:04pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    This, unfortunately, is the price you pay for being forthright with your opinion while at the same time being honest about your identity.
    Because I’ve used my real name on this blog I’ve been doxxed and abused in real life for it.
    Perhaps the anonymity used by most posters here is a form of self-censorship?
    
    3 6
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    April 15, 2020 11:37am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      “I’ve been doxxed and abused in real life”
      
      Seems like a good reason to use a pseudonym. I’m unsure why using your real name makes your opinion any more valid.
      
      10 1
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      April 15, 2020 11:51am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It is a damn good reason to use a pseudonym on this site.
        
        If you have a job, employees, loved-ones to protect, then be aware that some anonymous folks on this site are more than happy to intrude into your private life.
        
        6 1
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        April 15, 2020 12:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I don’t know, doxxing stephieboy seemed to meet with general approval.
        
        2 6
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        April 15, 2020 12:52pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Maggy
        It says so much about the monolithic political consensus (at least, what we are lead to believe is a ‘consensus’ – I have my doubts) that people feel as though they cannot openly express dissent. We are the counter culture, and the Leftists are The Man. They think it is the reverse. Lol.
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:18pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @MMA
        
        stephieboy doxxed himself… by referring his name on a note.
        
        That is at least the 2nd time you have tried to associate me with those events.
        
        I don’t know who he is or why you seem to encourage him in his smears and abuse against me and other folks on KB.
        
        7 1
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        April 15, 2020 1:43pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Yes, if you must use a nick then it is good policy not to give away revealing information that makes you readily identifiable through legitimate public information; and best of all don’t say what your name is.
        
        3 0
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        April 15, 2020 7:27pm
- Nickc2
  
  Video won’t play, it has a privacy marking.
  
  5 1
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  April 15, 2020 9:49am
Yvette

“From even the greatest of horrors, irony is seldom absent”

What if Winston, perhaps best advised to lay a little low because of the amount that fishing interests have donated his electioneering, spent time emphasising his private bubble privilege by fishing from his waterside front lawn, and the borderline fishy morality of doing so.

What if Hone Harawira, spurned his own road blocks, and “blitzed” Auckland for a meal of bacon and eggs and returned home to roast pork, apple sauce and potato salad, but bought the virus back with him to wipe out an entire cluster of kaumātua – would Hone be culpable, or Auckland Airport for not protecting the people under Article 3 of the Treaty.
“While I was down there I had an essentially good breakfast – not with my sister because she is a nurse. She sat inside while we were there. She cooked us a fabulous breakfast and put it out on the deck,” he told 1 NEWS A nurse – so what the hell could go wrong?

What if Jacinda was convinced to end the lockdown early because new cases dropped drastically each day, but since less tests were down each day and no one really picked that much attention?
Like April 8, 50 new cases were announced from 4098 tests processed April 7.
April 9, 29 new cases, so down, from 3990 tests processed ‘yesterday’, also down.
April 10, 44 new cases, up, from 4520 tests, also up
April 11, 29 new cases, down, from 3061 tests, also down from yesterday
April 12, 18 cases, down, from 2421 tests, also down
April 13, 19 cases, up, from 1660 tests, which were down on yesterday
April 14, 17 new cases, down, from 1572 tests, down [Easter Monday]
figures from https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases

Kererū have been landing on back fences, pīwakawaka have been seen playing on Lambton Quay, and tūī have definitely been singing loudly at the crack of dawn. no longer having to compete with cars, buses, trains, planes or people. Apparently all those bloody Morgan-hated cats must be in lockdown too.

“Go early, go hard and go households” — phrase attributed to Ken Henry, Secretary of the Department of the Treasury, served 27 April 2001 – 7 March 2011
An Australian.

The Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are essential workers?
Some of us have known this for quite a while now.
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April 15, 2020 8:11am
- tf78
  
  “Go early, go hard and ‘gone economy.'”
  
  42 2
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  April 15, 2020 8:41am
- JackRabbit
  
  I thought Jacinda was the Tooth Fairy. Leave your small business under your pillow, I’ll take it and give a sixpence.
  
  36 4
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  April 15, 2020 9:05am
fernglas

Having read the discussion in Newsroom and the Spinoff about the “dissident” report published yesterday in Stuff, it seems to me that the scientists are not at odds about the figures. What they are at odds about is the moral implications. I don’t see why they should be claiming some right to tell us whether human life or social and economic well-being should be to the fore. Siouxie Wiles has made it quite clear that the opinions of these experts on what should be done is based on their perception of the moral implications. She is a scientist, as are Skeggs and all the others. They are not expert in social science, economics or morality in general. When experts step outside their areas of expertise, their opinion is worthless. Having scientists tell us what our moral judgments should be is outside their expertise. They should stick to analysing the figures and let others, including the individuals most directly affected, decide what the consequences should be.
52 1
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April 15, 2020 8:12am
- rjay
  
  On the other hand if I follow you correctly, the Minister of Health has a doctorate in morality so we should listen to his expertise?
  
  20 1
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  April 15, 2020 8:32am
  - fernglas
    
    Perhaps he should listen to ours; we are, after all, the victims in this
    
    19 1
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    April 15, 2020 8:56am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      The problem there, is that this blog is a miniscule subset of the population, and, as such, does not represent the prevalent view. After all, democracy is often two wolves and a sheep discussing what to have for lunch.
      
      4 10
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      April 15, 2020 11:40am
      - fernglas
        
        I am not suggesting that the Government should only listen to people on this blog. I am suggesting that they should engage with those who are most at risk from the virus, namely the elderly who will die and the young whose futures are being destroyed, and find out what they want, not what they they think they should want.
        
        9 1
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        April 15, 2020 12:23pm
  - freethinker
    
    Rjay, Being an expert in sky fairies should be a qualification for internment under the mental health act.
    
    7 10
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    April 15, 2020 9:39am
  - Hacked-Off
    
    He cannot even follow his on advice so why should we listen to Clark?
    
    17 1
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    April 15, 2020 10:00am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    No.
    If he was actively working in his field of competence, maybe – but only as one voice among many.
    
    7 2
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    April 15, 2020 10:13am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      God? Did e argue for the Lord’s prayer? to be retained at Parliament?
      
      0 0
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      April 16, 2020 12:20pm
- PhilBest
  
  So which scientists do you mean that to apply to? All of them, or just the ones who agree with Jacinda?
  
  You are right, but that doesn’t mean that whoever happens to be government at one particular instant espcially when some Poison Dwarf got to choose it instead of the actual people, is automatically right and must not be questioned, over their response to any one issue. I say Sir Bob Jones is the non-expert who has got this right, and St Jacinda is the wrecker fool we were unlucky to have as leader at this time.
  
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  April 15, 2020 8:33am
  - fernglas
    
    All of them. Read my post again. It is us who should be making these decisions, with assistance from experts, not the experts themselves, who on moral issues are outside their areas of expertise.
    
    23 0
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    April 15, 2020 8:59am
    - PhilBest
      
      Good, I just wasn’t completely sure what you meant. I’m with you. The other day I posted an analogy where we don’t bother with a jury any more, or a judge or Counsel for Prosecution or Defense, in criminal trials – we just let the Forensics guy come to a verdict and pass a sentence. That’s what the current time is like.
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:48am
      - fernglas
        
        Agreed, but even the forensics guy would be working in an area where he had expertise. Asking scientists to make judgment calls on big social issues is like asking a wheelbarrow to referee a rugby match.
        
        10 1
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        April 15, 2020 10:49am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @fernglas
        
        “..but even the forensics guy would be working in an area where he had expertise.”
        
        What is expertise? What is known as the modern “Scientific Method” is rooted in inductive science and inductive thinking pioneered centuries ago by Sir Francis Bacon.
        
        But despite that, many “experts” precariously cling to deductive science. Including our expert scientists and indeed the investigative branch of the constabulary. While the average police detective will tell that they have “never convicted someone that wasn’t guilty”, the more respected detectives will agree, off the record, that as many as 30% of convictions were wrong. All perpetrated by the need to convict and find evidence to support hunches. Also called deductive science.
        
        Critical thinking, using inductive analytics is the exception, not the norm.
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:14pm
- MrTips
  
  Wiles is not an epidemiologist, neither is Hendy. Both admit that. Their figures and predictions are/have been demonstrably wrong – neither admit it. From some reason I went on Twitter again to see Wiles response to Simon Thornley et al., who IS an epidemiologist. I was not surprised at the ad hominem attacks and lack of argument on her part and her followers. Her arguments are largely emotive and “what if”. Health at all costs seems to be her position.
  
  David Skegg is not in that camp. Neither is Thornley and I suspect neither is Michael Baker. They admit their boundaries which is why Skegg told the Epidemic Committee POINT BLANK yesterday to set up a group including economists, business folk, academics, politicians and govt servants to nut out the strategy going forward.
  ie. make a fucking plan people!
  
  48 2
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  April 15, 2020 8:40am
  - SGA
    
    David Skegg is not in that camp.
    
    Skegg is one the advocates of an intensive lockdown, and is warning of the health risks of coming out of it prematurely. Likewise Baker, I imagine. Thornley is the odd one out in that group, it seems to me.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:06am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Wiles greatest grievance appears to be that they are male,
    
    Dr Siouxsie Wiles
    @SiouxsieW
    To all the media listening to the 6 expert men, please ask them for the data which they say shows #COVID19 is “not the disaster we feared and prepared for”. Also please be mindful that Thornley did some spectacular cherry-picking last time he made the same claim.
    
    From another thread of hers,
    
    Taran Baker
    @Taran_Baker
    ·
    Apr 14
    Replying to
    @SiouxsieW
    and
    @Knhannah
    Yep, white men so objectively it’s a bad idea
    
    35 2
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    April 15, 2020 9:17am
    - Blackface Twin Reverb
      
      Dey see me rollin’ – dey hatin’…
      Maybe white males just happen to be the best* we got?
      
      *Competent, experienced…. professional.
      
      16 1
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      April 15, 2020 10:19am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      So she’s just another identitarian idiot and bigot. Quelle surprise. Her statements defending weak govt policy in Feb/Mar identified her as hopelessly partisan in any case. Favored by red radio as a result.
      
      10 0
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      April 15, 2020 12:54pm
- stewmar
  
  Having scientists tell us what our moral judgments should be is outside their expertise. They should stick to analysing the figures
  
  Are pollies any more qualified to tell us what our moral judgements should be? I don’t think so
  
  12 1
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  April 15, 2020 9:20am
- theoldbloke
  
  I still have a problem with media calling the Wiles person an expert in infectious disease etc etc.
  She is an excellent Science communicator and should leave off the opinions.
  
  I have to also admire her for making herself a personality. Changing her name Sue to Souix? to become memorable in the print media. Changing her hair to a bright colour so she is memorable on video.
  
  It reminds me of Rod Oram,
  Allowing himself to be referred to in the media as an economics expert.
  He was a financial reporter for 20 years then came to NZ and transformed himself to be a personality.
  He is no economist and is now doing what I suspect the Science Communicator is starting to do.
  Pontificate on subjects that they have no expertise in…
  
  Stand bye for a TV series Souix says.
  
  28 3
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  April 15, 2020 10:03am
  - hilaryt
    
    Yes. It was clear to many that Wiles had become an in-groupie some time ago….about the time the Press knocked, was it Bob Brockie?, into touch, filling the space with a much more ‘now’ personage…Wiles. She’s wasted no time, nor this crisis to cement her position & indulging in ‘unkind’ cattiness to boot. Unimpressed.
    
    7 1
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    April 15, 2020 12:00pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Bob Brockie.. NZ’s Renaissance Man.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/kapiti-observer/71631560/bob-brockie-memoir-covers-63-years-stirring-the-pot-as-a-political-cartoonist
      
      One of most interesting scientists/characters I’ve met.
      
      4 0
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      April 15, 2020 12:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Shovel-ready projects to restore NZ’s economy?

Might pay to submit your creative ideas now.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/coronavirus-arts-sector-in-for-boost-with-creative-new-zealand-funding-applications-open.html
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April 15, 2020 8:12am
- Ruahine
  
  This will be a vehicle for gov’t funding of the lefty PR mags such as the Listener, N&S, and Womens Weekly for the luvly airbrushed photoshoots.
  Total Government funding of the MSM is one of the aims of the Labour Party from this debacle. The other is for the taxpayers to finance their election campaigns.
  
  42 1
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  April 15, 2020 8:20am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No,
    It’s separate from the Media bail-out…
    
    That is still to materialise, but Hey, Jacinda is on to it.
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has expressed concern about the state of New Zealand media and confirmed at the weekend that discussions were under way at cabinet level for added assistance for New Zealand media companies that seen a big drop in advertising revenue.
    
    She did not go into details but said the pandemic had shown the importance of a media industry that provided trusted news and information.
    
    “We need to make sure they [media firms] are also viable post coronavirus,” she said.
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/nzme-cuts-200-jobs
    
    21 1
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    April 15, 2020 9:25am
    - cmm
      
      “provided trusted news and information”
      
      I think she really means “can be trusted to provide the correct news and information”.
      
      Has RNZ received its $38M bribe/handout yet?
      
      33 3
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      April 15, 2020 9:35am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I would not have thought that increasing funding to a government-owned radio station could reasonably be described as a ‘bribe’, and more than increasing the budget for any other government department could be.
        
        0 17
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        April 15, 2020 10:54am
- GT Build
  
  I would like a brick fence at my place no consents needed so it is shovel ready will that count
  
  27 1
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  April 15, 2020 8:24am
- cmm
  
  Throw a bucket of paint at a wall, give it a stupid name like Global Futility and it is a $1M art installation.
  
  41 2
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  April 15, 2020 8:26am
- PhilBest
  
  Trams! Trams! Trams! Never let a crisis go to waste! There’s just enough room left down the middle of the road once JAG has had all the footpaths widened!
  
  43 4
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  April 15, 2020 8:34am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Phil, look up Stuff from 2 days ago. Among their “Shovel Ready” projects, Todd Niall reports that AT has sought $10mill to buy 100 electric vehicles to add to their fleet of vehicles for AT Local. The failed taxi service they have been trialing in Devonport.
    
    What is it with these tin pot local govt empire builders? If people want cheap ride share there is Uber or Ola, why does AT need a taxi business that is subsidized by the taxpayer and ratepayer?
    
    30 1
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    April 15, 2020 9:25am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Other people’s money. They could provide same service for <20% of the money. Local govt is appallingly wasteful.
      
      4 1
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      April 15, 2020 12:57pm
- bruceavon
  
  They are probably fantasising about the recovery being like FDR’s New Deal.
  
  15 1
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  April 15, 2020 8:43am
- Fletch
  
  Remember Obama’s “shovel ready” jobs? It never happened.
  
  19 2
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  April 15, 2020 9:40am
  - JamesP
    
    “Shovel-ready wasn’t as…uh…shovel-ready as we thought.”
    Obama.
    
    18 1
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    April 15, 2020 9:58am
    - PhilBest
      
      Some of the projects involved are apparently STILL making their way through approval processes, red tape, green tape, etc years later!
      
      5 2
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      April 15, 2020 10:20am
      - Ed Snack
        
        A lot of the money though was dispersed, to people with the right qualifications – Democrat donors in other words.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:23pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Art Day!
6 28
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April 15, 2020 8:12am
- pdm
  
  Uptick was probably from Jacinda.
  
  21 4
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  April 15, 2020 8:41am
  - Random T Person
    
    And me.
    
    7 5
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    April 15, 2020 8:57am
- JamesP
  
  Happy World Art Day!
  Post-modern deconstructionist performance art. Would not buy.
  
  9 2
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  April 15, 2020 10:04am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No one asked you to buy anything…
    
    1 12
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    April 15, 2020 10:55am
    - simpleton1
      
      Sold sold to that rate payer over there.
      
      Sold sold to that tax payer over there.
      
      8 1
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      April 15, 2020 12:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Funnily enough, states (including their rulers) have historically always been the biggest buyers of art.
        
        1 7
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        April 15, 2020 12:57pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Or religious institutions, the church in medieval Europe wasn’t “the state” but did buy a lot of art.
        
        And in the renaissance and later, wealthy individuals were probably the largest group of patrons. The state though would dominate architecture likely enough, and since state funding of art became a “popular” idea, the modern state utterly dominates the ranks of art patrons, though oddly now not so much in architecture.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:26pm
harvey wilson

I’ll be honest , I immediately thought Siouxsie Wiles was a crank when I saw her purple hair , silly spelling of her name and that she had her pronouns in her twitter bio. Now I’m really sceptical of her opinions given how immersed in dishonest woke politics she is . I’d like to hear from some other voices in her field now . I don’t trust Wiles to tell the truth , it looks to me like she might value identity politics over science.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JulietMosesNZ/status/1249816587772801026
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April 15, 2020 8:29am
- fernglas
  
  She’s a self-professed expert who is outside her area of expertise, and she is trying to tell us how to run our lives. Charlatan is the best word.
  
  59 2
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  April 15, 2020 9:00am
  - stewmar
    
    She’s a self-professed expert who is outside her area of expertise, and she is trying to tell us how to run our lives. Charlatan is the best word.
    
    As long as the stupid MSM keep asking her questions, she’ll keep mouthing off
    
    38 3
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    April 15, 2020 9:23am
    - kowtow
      
      Stupid MSM?
      
      Nope , their motives must be questioned as they constantly present her to us as an expert .
      
      Propaganda MSM.
      
      28 2
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      April 15, 2020 9:52am
      - Lee C
        
        I just got the impressions she was one of the ‘team’ – you know media-savvy cognoscenti who think they are slumming it because they work on Ponsonby Road or Cuba Street.
        
        I got the impressions she would have been given the direct ‘ok’ from the Liar in Chief on the basis that she was ‘cool’ and ‘relentlessy posidive’ presenting in a in a way that the Chardonnay Socialist Set really like think is, like, really groovy.
        
        In short, a highly paid propaganda spout for people who like their latte dairy-free…
        
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        April 15, 2020 11:47am
- JibberJabber
  
  I believe Wiles area of expertise is Creutzfeldt Jakob.
  
  21 1
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  April 15, 2020 9:19am
  - freethinker
    
    Jibber – do you think she suffers from Mad Cow Disease.
    
    3 1
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    April 15, 2020 1:09pm
- PhilBest
  
  Speaking of valuing identity politics over science: everyone should have read this by now:
  
  http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2020/04/identity-politics-lied-new-yorkers-died.html
  
  7 2
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  April 15, 2020 10:21am
UrbanNeocolonialist

CNN anchor Chris Cuomo says his COVID diagnosis has made him rethink his career: “I don’t like what I do, professionally, I’ve decided … I don’t value indulging irrationality, hyper-partisanship. I don’t think it’s worth my time anymore.”
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April 15, 2020 8:40am
- Scott
  
  That’s so funny about Chris Cuomo! CNN is at the epicentre of hyper partisanship. They have built their whole business model on “orange man bad!” For three years they told us that Trump is a Russian agent who stole the election from Hillary Clinton. Then they told us that Trump sold out the Ukrainians in a bid to get dirt on that wonderful person Joe Biden. Now they are telling us that Trump is a terrible person who has totally botched the handling of the coronavirus.
  
  Literally whatever Trump is for they are against. It is no wonder that their ratings are plummeting. No one trusts them anymore to convey the facts.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:08am
  - krazykiwi
    
    If Trump recited the Magna Carta flawlessly, while simultaneously resolving complex quadratic equations on live TV, CNN would focus their critique on his poor choice of tie. They are pathetic.
    
    34 3
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    April 15, 2020 10:01am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    And yet the Boss just keeps on winning. Defunding the WHO is a start, now I hope he defunds the UN.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xy4nEpZbXM
    
    The Democrat’s mouth piece media wants the crisis to be as bad as possible and the economic outcome to be similarly horrendous, just so they may have a chance of victory in November. They should be lined up against a wall and summarily executed for their treason. They ARE the enemy of the people.
    
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    April 15, 2020 11:15am
    - Batman
      
      This is nuts. Shooting people?
      
      You MAGA cultists have joined the extreme left in totalitarianism.
      
      2 10
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      April 15, 2020 1:15pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Treason has always been a high crime. Perhaps we could commute their sentence to life with hard labour, giving them time to reflect. Don’t commit blatant treason and you’ll have nothing to worry about.
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:20pm
- Joe Kerr
  
  Maybe it’s the Fredo slur finally getting to him…
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:10pm
- freethinker
  
  Urban – Unusual name, any relative to Mayor Cuomo?
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:11pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    His brother
    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/04/09/gov-andrew-chris-cuomo-stay-at-home-campaign-family-photo-intv-vpx.cnn
    
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    April 15, 2020 2:44pm
    - freethinker
      
      Thanks Maggie, I suspected so from the name and his political bias.
      
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      April 15, 2020 7:20pm
  - Brian Marshall
    
    .
    
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    April 15, 2020 2:54pm
Lucia Maria

Sad story today of how the lockdown killed an elderly man:

Coronavirus: Lockdown sparks fatal panic attacks in elderly man
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April 15, 2020 8:45am
- harvey wilson
  
  Our family is going through the same issue. Condolences to his family and friends
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:11am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Our family did not experience the same issues, but we’ve had to put our grieving on hold until after the lockdown.
    
    My father who had been ailing prior to the lockdown, passed away the first weekend of the lockdown. The process thereafter has been cold and clinical. So, my condolences to all families affected in a comparable manner.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:40am
    - krazykiwi
      
      My condolences to you hullkiwi. A difficult time ordinarily, but more so in the current climate.
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:56am
    - Swifty
      
      Sorry to hear that hullkiwi.
      
      My sympathies.
      
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      April 15, 2020 12:07pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Sad, and the tip of the iceberg. I’m involved with an NGO that provides care services, and our front-line and help-line staff are maxed.
  
  Jacinda is accountable. She created this mess.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:16am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  It doesn’t help people’s mental state when they are constantly being pumped-up with an overstated sense of fear by a media who want you to keep watching and keep clicking. Predictions are all falling woefully short, and the subsequent lengths these scum go to to make everything seem worse than it actually is are disgusting. They are vermin.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:21am
oldpark

About 21 days ago it was reported in the Financial Times that NZ being a remote island in the Pacific would be best placed to handle the Covic -19 Virus.
Even though NZs Politicians like the rest of the World any which way acted to make sure they would not be caught with an epidemic.
After in essence at the same time virtually destroying the Nations Economy they waited for the massive forecast deaths that never arrived .
Yesterday they got a breakthrough with 4 deaths .
They and their sycophant Mainstream Media were saved by the long winded Lockdown and to justify the massive totally out of control destruction of NZs Economy .
Just one thing here. Three of the four dead people were in the 80/90s suffering from other untold illnesses and in the natural way of life and death it would have been just a matter of time when they would have died anyway . In fact a few months ago the deaths of the elderly would not have gotten a mention by NZs Mainstream Media or Politicians.
Except Politics is the art of looking for trouble,finding it whether it exists or not,diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy . In this instance of prolonging an almost manufactured crisis for long term political gain. Surely not. Not half .
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April 15, 2020 8:48am
SGA

Now I’m really sceptical of her opinions given how immersed in dishonest woke politics she is . I’d like to hear from some other voices in her field now .

Harvey, the internet is awash with information about coronavirus – it is easy to go and look. I haven’t heard a lot of Wiles’ comments (I’ve been looking more internationally), but what I have heard seems to be reasonably orthodox. Is there anything in particular that she has said that you find unbelievable?
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April 15, 2020 8:51am
- harvey wilson
  
  I’m aware there better and more informative voices than hers, unfortunately hers is prominent for some reason .
  
  It was disturbing she told people not to listen to someone who apparently has more qualifications than her.
  https://mobile.twitter.com/SiouxsieW/status/1244712154235879424
  Looks like he was right and she was wrong too .
  
  The press seem to hang off her every word and she seems proud of the fact everyone knows she’s left wing . I prefer scientists that aren’t immersed in politics. Either side of of politics, left or right .
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:10am
  - Martin Williams
    
    He was wrong about Sweden and so has now moved on to Australia as the beacon of hope.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:05am
    - PhilBest
      
      What is being “wrong about Sweden”?
      
      https://unherd.com/2020/04/jury-still-out-on-swedish-coronavirus-strategy/
      
      “…A clearer way of looking at death numbers, also courtesy of the excellent Our World in Data, is the daily trend of deaths per million. Here you get a good sense of the trajectories. All of the countries listed below, except Sweden, have full national lockdowns. And yet Sweden is roughly in the middle of the pack. This is quite remarkable in itself, when set against the dominant narrative that lockdowns are the only thing capable of ‘flattening’ these curves and preventing tragedies that are many times worse…”
      
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      April 15, 2020 10:33am
      - Jack5
        
        And there’s Taiwan, where businesses, restaurants, and schools are open.
        
        Population four and a half times that of NZ, and a lower Covid-19 toll.
        
        Latest figures from Taiwan:
        
        393 cases, 6 deaths, 124 recovered, 263 active cases (none critical), total tests 48,459, population 23.6 million.
        
        https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/14/834431383/taiwan-reports-no-new-coronavirus-cases-adding-to-success-in-fighting-pandemic
        
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        April 15, 2020 11:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  She said:
  *NZ was unlikely to get a coronavirus outbreak
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/siouxsie-wiles-on-why-we-are-unlikely-to-see-a-coronavirus-outbreak-in-new-zealand/
  
  * No need to close schools (when transmission was occurring at a Dunedin and an Auckland school) when Prof Baker was calling for school closures
  Leading microbiologist Dr Siouxsie Wiles told Newstalk ZB that at this stage schools do not need to be closed.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12317250
  
  *that casual contact with confirmed cases wasn’t a cause for concern,
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120362894/coronavirus-48-hours-enough-time-to-decontaminate-dunedin-school-expert-says
  
  *she has flip-flopped about the need to wear masks in public
  
  etc, etc.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:38am
  - MCos
    
    Without reading the articles it sounds like she was advocating something more along the lines of the Australian approach.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:59am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Well if you are not going to read the articles, or listen to her broadcasts, or follow what she is saying each day, then you can think anything.
      
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      April 15, 2020 11:43am
      - MCos
        
        Are you saying your little summaries are misleading?
        
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        April 15, 2020 12:37pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Are you saying your little summaries are misleading?
        
        You do seem confused.
        
        I usually post links to my summaries/comments
        
        Feel free to point out where & when I have misinterpreted something or misled folks (who I assumed were capable of checking and thinking for themselves).
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:13pm
cmm

According to Auntie Helen, UN is not dealing with Covid19 properly.

What the UN needs is someone who REALLY knows how to deal with Covid19 properly. Someone like #CinD4UN.

Does anyone else feel PriNZess is getting her path swept for her?

https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6149393342001
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April 15, 2020 9:00am
- Poppa
  
  When she goes to the UN, which I am sure she wants real bad, I will raise a glass
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:05am
- emmess
  
  Did Clark mention anything about the UN health care branch (the WHO) being a terrific failure?
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:09am
  - cmm
    
    You didn’t actually expect me to watch Helen Clark did you?
    
    Anyway, #CinD4UN will sort them out.
    
    Ignore the experts (who these days are activists anyway) and replace them with a few phone calls to her mates.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:19am
    - emmess
      
      Yes, I did
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:32am
    - hullkiwi
      
      We did watch Clark, and both MrsHK and I were in agreement with what she said. Which was a shock for the both of us.
      
      What Clark did say, was there had been a failure of political leadership at the UN Security Council level to recognize the significance of this pandemic. And this lack of leadership is now leading to an economic situation that will be even worse for the health/wellbeing of the world’s population.
      
      You cannot argue with that irrespective of your views of H1.
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:48am
      - Nickc2
        
        Come on hullkiwi, she is a sour old cow who is still all bitter and twisted that she was passed over for the top job at the UN. She will be trying to tear down anyone in the UN who bettered her for the rest of her life.
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:59am
- MrTips
  
  I’m genuinely surprised.
  
  At how bloody open and in our face Helen is being about this. Shameless.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:13am
- Gravelroad
  
  CMM – some weeks ago I offered this opinion on this forum:
  If Labour win the 2020 election (assuming it still happens) Ms Ardern will shortly thereafter resign and take up a high profile “job” at the UN.
  If Labour do not win the election, Ms Arden will shortly thereafter resign and take up a high profile “job” at the UN.
  This I still believe to be a strong possibility.
  Ms Ardern’s figurehead leadership will be ideal for the UN. Here not so much.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:30am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ms Ardern had better start sweet-talking the Pres. of USA then, because WHO/ UN might be facing lean times.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:42am
    - artemisia
      
      People might not be so keen on working for the UN or its offshoots if they relocate to Yemen or South Sudan. They oughta, cheap living and injection of funding into local desperate economies. New York not so much.
      
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      April 15, 2020 9:55am
      - hullkiwi
        
        South Sudan was where that experienced Lanour Leader, David Shearer went.
        
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        April 15, 2020 12:36pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Then she’d have something to really complain about re women’s rights. Instead of fake ‘unequal salaries in NZ’ stats.
        
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        April 15, 2020 1:14pm
  - Paulus
    
    Even she is not intelligent enough for any job at the UN, outside say Angola !
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:44am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Would rather consider it was a plank with a short drop to the sea at the end myself . . .
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:51pm
I remember when

Another day in lockdown. Should I read the coronavirus newspaper? Watch the coronavirus TV? Listen to the coronavirus radio? Lucky life has so many choices!
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April 15, 2020 9:01am
- Scott
  
  Well you could watch the sports? Unfortunately there is no sport. I used to watch the sports but now there is nothing to follow. I used to follow US politics but now there is nothing to follow. I used to go to the gym – can’t do that. I used to go to the local café and have a coffee, can’t do that either.
  
  I do pray and read my Bible so I can do more of that. But I do hope that life does return back to our nation soon. Still no one under 70 has died. We are in danger of destroying our economy, the cure may be worse than the disease itself.
  
  Burger King has gone under. One wonders how many more businesses are going to go under this next week while our government ponders whether businesses can start trading again?
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:13am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Exodus is great at a time like this, don’t you think?
    
    Of the 10 plagues therein, I think it’s the plague of boils that would really bug me….(not withstanding that no-one would care for the Plague of first-born deaths).
    
    I do remember my mother had an attack of the H-Bug as it was known in the 1950 -60s….
    (an epidemic that NZ appears to have forgotten)
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/30040222_The_H-bug_epidemic_the_impact_of_antibiotic-resistant_staphylococcal_infection_on_New_Zealand_society_and_health_1955-1963
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:50am
  - MCos
    
    Good news!
    Burger King hasn’t gone under.
    They’ll be open for you, probably later next week, and they wouldn’t have had to chuck out any of their stuff from a month ago.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:54am
- Inandout
  
  Read Bob Jones and his article about the Covid state of affairs and the coming storm. That will steady your choices.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:22am
  - greybeard
    
    His article was so good that Hosking was giving it lots of favourable airtime this morning. He said it was a “must-read” article.
    
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    April 15, 2020 12:30pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  I’ve been watching Damages (until I couldn’t stand it anymore on the last season) and Why Women Kill on TVNZ on Demand.
  
  Why Women Kill is hilarious, best thing ever. Pity there’s is only one season.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:52am
donny

I mean a substantial number of lives will be lost if COVID can’t be eliminated. This shouldn’t be travialised. Perhaps 15000 total with 90% over 70 & 50% over 80.

I think the issue at hand is what price is going to be paid to eliminate the virus. Initially we were told 4 weeks, then relative normalcy will return. Now we are told we should also expect several months at level 3.5 & schools & ece’s will be closed during this time.

This raises serious concerns in my mind. How is a single mother meant to do her job if her 6yo is not able to go to school? If she has to resign from her job how will she pay rent? How will she heat her house? She has to suffer these problems for a virus that won’t even affect her. How is this fair?

I think as a society we need to acknowledge the serious tradeoffs associated with a level 3 or 4 lockdown.
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April 15, 2020 9:11am
- cmm
  
  The virus will not be eliminated.
  
  The only way “Eliminate the virus” can be achieved is by redefining what the word “eliminate” means.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:20am
  - Inandout
    
    cmm you are correct of course. It is now a matter of how long Jacinda can spin the Covid web without the general population doing a Hone and just breaking the rules en masse. Many citizens are at the end of their tether, especially those waiting for the call from their employer that the business won’t reopen.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:26am
  - MCos
    
    Eliminating the virus is probably too high a goal to achieve, particularly as it doesn’t take too many dissenters to keep the bug propagating. The recent measles outbreak was an indication of that.
    A more realistic goal might be containment, but we can’t afford to have multiple outbreaks such as happened at Marist College.
    
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    April 15, 2020 11:18am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Probably close enough to eliminating SARS-Cov2 with a decent vaccine, though as noted there will be some holdouts. But we should be able to reach 95% which should remove it essentially completely.
    
    We’ll still be open to SARS-Cov3 or whatever comes around in 12-15 years, but we can hope that organisations like WHO and the CDC in the US don’t fps I’ve up on the research into SARS like viruses quite so quickly this time.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:35pm
artemisia

The much vilified (by certain activists) OMV might have struck payday in the Taranaki Basin. I wonder if those activists will be protesting again on principle, or whether they might decide to keep quiet while the economy crumbles.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2004/S00233/omv-announces-positive-results-in-toutouwai-exploration-well.htm
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April 15, 2020 9:16am
- backster
  
  “The Toutouwai-1 well is now being safely plugged and abandoned in accordance with New Zealand’s stringent regulatory requirements. The COSL Prospector drilling rig will then depart Taranaki waters in mid-late April 2020.” I think they could add to that statement “Until there is a change of Government.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:37am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “I wonder if those activists will be protesting again on principle”
  and I wonder if those activists will be made an essential service so they can get in their boats to protest on principle.
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:31am
Yvette

Are Ardern and Robertson doing a Twyford? – one announcement of a billion here, multiple millions there, like Phil’s one new suburb or project after another – alternatives usually imply two options, so what is the right word when Phil has three proposals now for Auckland airport to CBD rail? – until no one has a clue as to what is happening. Slogans – “shovel ready” – and information over-load.

So can voters handle an Election at the same time?
To have it postponed would of course relaxes some of the fear that so many aspects of the current crisis are Election image building – Jacinda’s Mum makes her lunch, were initial test shortages rationed, is “Go hard, go early” to cover the fact they didn’t do either, did Ashley Bloomfield threaten resignation if the massacre massed-commemoration went ahead, how overseas friends helped form Jacinda’s eventual lockdown decision, but not much being said business men Tindall, Morgan and Fyfe urging the same, and the seven plane loads of medical gear Tindall ordered.

But with any delay of the Election, will referenda also of course be held off.
Who is giving out the pros and cons of recreational cannabis while people are trying to understand COVID-19 Alert Level 2 and Alert Level 3 as opposed to Level 4 of the current emergency? Confusion enough that Hone should think a reasonable social distance is 600km?

And the “end of life” referendum? Now, that it may suddenly have vastly greater implications now?
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April 15, 2020 9:18am
- Scott
  
  Yvette – you mentioned Hone and what is his virtual policing on his own authority of who comes into the far north or not. Isn’t it amazing that no journalist asks our Prime Minister about what authority Hone Hariwira has to set up a checkpoint on New Zealand roads?
  
  Doesn’t that worry anyone?
  
  Imagine if I, a white man, set up a roadblock at the top of the Rimutakas to make sure that no Wellingtonian’s come to the Wairarapa. How long would my roadblock last do you think?
  
  Basically we have one rule for Hone and his mates of Maori ancestry and one rule for the rest of us. How is this being allowed? And does no one else think this is an absolute flouting of the law?
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:33am
  - Yvette
    
    Scott
    It seems Radio Magic Talk host Peter Williams has repeatedly asked for Police Deputy Commissioner Haumaha to explain this, but so far is refused a response.
    
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    April 15, 2020 9:53am
  - Ruahine
    
    Just an example and a good one of the two faced attitude and practices that this gov’t has towards sectors of the the community.
    What is that phrase that Ardern likes to spout: “they are us” what with Little wanting to give his friends in jail the vote, birds of a feather, is what it is. Over the years I have noticed on many occasions that Labour loves using and abusing the law but does not have respect for the law. Therefore Labour and especially this government does not have respect for those who obey the law. Laws are optional for their friends.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:15am
    - Yvette
      
      Ruahine – “They are us”
      
      Await the Royal Commission Inquiry into the Christchurch Mosque Massacres and you may find how apart, and not quite us, ‘They’ are perceived, and perceive themselves to be.
      
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      April 15, 2020 10:34am
Andrew Worth

If you haven’t already you should go look at sky 502 to see what this government considers “education”.
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April 15, 2020 9:23am
- Andrew Worth
  
  They started off with amateur hour with a git explaining to parents that education needed to be child led – it was obviously broadcast live because the sound kept fading out and had other problems (it was inside but they still managed to get ‘wind distortion’), very much talking down to parents.
  
  Now they’re offering crap material for preschoolers – as if there isn’t a ton of pretty good commercially available material for that demographic already.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:32am
  - artemisia
    
    Online learning for preschoolers misses the point -that it is primarily about childcare while a parent is working. Mat time on the telly doesn’t cut it.
    
    Fair enough while in lockdown, except when the centre continues to charge full fees. Happened in my family and only partially remitted after the Minister and the Ministry got involved. That centre was mentioned in despatches in a Stuff article on the topic yesterday.
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:52pm
- cmm
  
  Proper homeschooling is a far more viable option at the moment.
  
  I am fully aware that homeschooling does not fit all families, but it does work for most of the 4000 or so families that do homeschool in NZ.
  
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  April 15, 2020 9:39am
I remember when

Tomorrow’s headline. Another milestone reached with 2 mil coronavirus cases worldwide. Of course no-one can even guess how many cases there really have been. A lot of countries appear to have decided they will do any testing for totals afterwards. A lot of governments having closed borders think that the population over estimating the number of cases helps their cause. Late border closers want the totals kept low.
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April 15, 2020 9:24am
Fletch

I still don’t quite understand the catchphrase that every govt official seems to be parroting, “go hard and go early”. We actually didn’t go that early, did we? We hummed and hawed and looked at what countries overseas were doing and hummed and hawed some more. We were just lucky that our country was isolated enough to give our leaders the luxury of time.
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April 15, 2020 9:49am
- Nickc2
  
  You are correct Fletch. I heard our Police Minister this morning drop the phrase at least four times into a conversation with Hosking and it was dropped in when totally out of context with the conversation/question being addressed.
  It made me wonder if it’s not the content of a poster all ministers and staff are required to display on the walls of their offices.
  Anyway, it’s a bloody lie! They went LATE and they went SOFT. End of story. They can’t live that down no matter how many times they repeat the lie.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:59am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Hard and early has replaced nine years chant when we know that is is really thirty months of incompetence . . .
    
    it takes time to get the labour team to learn a new phrase, reminds me of those dolls from my childhood when you pulled a string on their backs to make them say something . . .
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:57pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  We also were lied to when told the country was locked down–it wasn’t, 40,000 arrivals since then.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:33pm
Fletch

ps, I’m still not sure that we should come out of lockdown next week. At the moment the lockdown is functioning as a fire break – creating a vacuum, not giving the virus a chance to jump from person to person. But that flame is still out there and once it finds the fuel of trees (or, in this case, crowds of people) it could easily be jumping from tree to tree again and setting the forest on fire.

When you fight a forest fire it may look like it is out, but you have to make sure all the hot spots are damped down, or the whole thing can go up again and your previous efforts are for naught.
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April 15, 2020 9:56am
- Poppa
  
  I look at it this way Fletch
  
  Cindy will want it extended as long as possible whilst Peters & Robertson will want to get the economy running. My money is on the latter winning
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:10am
- cmm
  
  The problem with all analogies is that they can work in the main but break down at the edges.
  
  The firebreak analogy is a good one for a broad brush/ 50,000 ft view of how containment and separation work.
  
  However the “hot spots” bit is pushing the analogy a bit far. A bucket of water will put out a hotspot.
  
  There is no way to completely eliminate a virus while there are still people alive in NZ.
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:32am
hullkiwi

The old cliche “give a dog a bone, and it will always come back for more….”

Well how true of the university students, who were thrown money by JA and Robbo yesterday. This being on the pretence that students are suffering financial loses because they can’t do their part time jobs. Well that is a statement of the blindingly obvious, many of them are back home in their family bubbles. But what was even worse….

Less than 24 hours it is reported that the Student leaders are claiming the money thrown out by Robbo yesterday was not enough….

My comment to that, go and tell that to those who have recently lost their jobs incomes or businesses!

Some people have no shame!
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April 15, 2020 9:57am
- Fletch
  
  I think their beef is that giving another $1000 student allowance on top of the $1000 they already get, all of which they still have to pay back at some stage, is not a help. That’s what I could pick up anyway.
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:27am
  - Batman
    
    It is a very short-term fix once you do a couple of rounds of rent and food
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:28am
  - cmm
    
    Of course they’re hoping that they will get it all “for free” and not have to pay it back.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:34am
- oldfella
  
  Maybe those hard-up students should check this out.
  https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-arts-degrees-renamed-non-essential-worker-degrees
  Okay, it’s a joke, but so is money spend on a crap degree which will results in crap job options down the track.
  
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  April 15, 2020 12:14pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Alas. Government-paid bureaucrat job options. If you learn to turn a good phrase, you can write reports for councils or govt. departments and need no actual experience in practical work or business.
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:35pm
Maggie Pie

You will have all seen the interesting comment i posted on GD yesterday, about what is happening to innocent white foreigners in China that are being attacked on the streets by Chinese citizens. This comes after the CCP tried to blame the West for releasing the Coronavirus.
My colleague from work, who originally alerted us to these dreadful events, has just supplied this You Tube link which confirms his allegations.
[Caution – contains graphic violence]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQaNdTKQyLY
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April 15, 2020 10:07am
- curry4me
  
  Maggie Pie: Now, they’re arresting black people, or barring them from restaurants.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:31pm
Critical Thinker

Food for thought ?

Ruby Princess Cruise Ship Coronavirus Outbreak Stats:

3,800 people on board.
2,700 passengers.
1,100 crew.

Likely average age of passengers is 45.

Likely 30% of passengers over 60.

Amount of social distancing:
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/ruby-princess-photo-shows-crammed-cruise-ship

18 people on this ship that have so far died with the China Coronavirus.

Current chance of death with the virus for those people in this extremely crowded environment 0.5%
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April 15, 2020 10:14am
- MT_Tinman
  
  Likely average age of passengers is 45. Likely 30% of passengers over 60
  
  Bullshit!
  
  Even including the crew, who tend to be young, the average age will be closer to 75 than 45.
  
  Most crew remain onboard.
  
  I doubt more than 10% of passengers were under 65.
  
  Notably with this cruise ship there have been (that I have seen) no reported cases of the virus from those of us dealing with the passengers of the ship in Akaroa, March, 13. Many of whom spent hours at a time with passengers in a closed vehicle (bus or van) and many of whom (the drivers/guides) are over 65.
  
  Note also I don’t use “likely” to hide lies.
  
  So no, give that no thought at all!
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:36am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Was making a quick observation in regards to the news piece on the Ruby Princess from the ODT that I had just read.
    
    It also surprised me that the average age of cruise ship passengers is around 45.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_on_cruise_ships#Average_age_of_cruise_passengers
    
    And that on most cruise ships the average is around 30% are over 60.
    https://www.cruise1st.co.uk/blog/cruise-holidays/how-old-is-the-average-cruise-passenger/
    
    If someone here could provide actual stats of the Ruby Princess that would be much appreciated.
    
    I personally think this continued level 4 lockdown is a moronic overreaction by our government. As the Ruby Princess is the very most worse case scenario you can possibly get for a developed country. As only 18 people have died with the China Coronavirus out of 3,800. Meaning a 0.5% death toll in a significantly elderly group of people.
    
    Also these 18 people are added to the Australian Coronavirus death statistics. Meaning that Australia is actually doing better than NZ. Since our flailing government should have quarantined the Ruby Princess while it was in NZ.
    
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    April 15, 2020 11:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Here are the Diamond Princess demographics:
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/16/diamond-princess-mysteries/
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:27pm
JackRabbit

Deaths that are counted as “corona deaths“, or deaths that are “died with” but counted as “died from” loosely come under ‘fraud’. The fact that among all the government stooges, even the low paid ones on $150k, no-one is reporting the stats sensibly, and shows you how effed up this situation really is. It is worse than junk science. It is propaganda.

Corona Viruses are part of the bigger group of Viruses we call influenza. As any professional business owner, sales or marketing expert will tell you that stats only gain relevance when compared to the period average or previous periods actual. In this case Covid-19 vs the genus of all Corona Viruses vs the genus of all Influenza which the genus of Corona Viruses belong to.

Sadly, the stats are being reported with little or no reference to all or previous flu or Corona Virus stats. As such we do not know the relevance. We do know that 500 people die every year from the flu (10 per week average), and some of those will be pockets as a result of infection in hospitals and nursing homes, as historically has been the case. So how does our current death toll stack up?

Corona Viruses make up 8-15% of the full flu variants on average. At 15% that is an average of 6 deaths per month. However as with all distribution curves, there will be months where there are no deaths and months where there are 15 deaths, such as when a new corona virus spreads. I have made this point many times in the past few weeks, as have others: And that is, is what we are seeing is anything out of the norm? And if so, by what percentage?

Are we going into debt to the tune of $100 billion, plus future debt and poverty because of a 30% spike in the flu deaths? Are we destroying businesses and livelihoods unnecessarily? In life there is risk. Risk is all around us. Lockdown is a form of insurance. But what happens when the insurance premiums are 1000 times more costly that any the cost of any one event? Without the real stats, no-one can gauge the level of risk, and the cost of the insurance vs the level of risk.

Simply broadcasting on nationwide media that there have X new cases, Y deaths, and Z recoveries without any reference to the greater genus of flu stats, is no better than a snake oil commercial, designed to sell you the cure, through fear and uncertainty.

It shields the public from the actual level of risk, instead relying on that fear and uncertainty to force the solution offered up. Even if the public were allowed to decide about the level of lockdown, they would struggle because they have no bench mark as to the elevated level of risk in comparison to the annual flu. Just fear and uncertainty.

Jacinda no longer needs the Woman Magazines. She has her own one now. Covid-19 daily.
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April 15, 2020 10:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Socialists don’t believe in wasting an opportunity.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:24pm
hullkiwi

Did anyone else catch a headline being posted on TV1 Breakfast, “Fear that there could be a new measles outbreak”. I am left asking, given we are quarantining people returning for two weeks and we are in lockdown, how are we going to get winter flu or a measles outbreak?

Do microbiologists think?, given our local media celebrity, I’ve answered my own question – No!
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April 15, 2020 10:18am
- Batman
  
  Have you missed all the information about how germs can spread via coughing and droplets?
  
  And as we know already, Measles can simply hang around in the air long after an infected person has left. It is highly contagious.
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:30am
  - PhilBest
    
    The temperature and humidity matter for this. HEVAC experts are useful people at the current time, we need to be hearing more from them.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:35am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think it was in the context that through Europe/Middle East folks have not been getting their vaccinations during their country’s lockdown.
  https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52278925
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:51am
Maggy Wassilieff

Media folk are presenting to the Epidemic Committee this morning.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121018336/live-coronavirus-epidemic-response-committee-updates

Gavin Ellis saying it’s no longer the case that news media can deliver a decent return on investment for investors. The private media model isn’t a “viable, normal investment opportunity”.
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April 15, 2020 10:33am
- krazykiwi
  
  The private media model isn’t a “viable, normal investment opportunity”
  
  Translation: Our journalism is so shit few people are stupid enough to pay for it. How about we formalise our role are mouthpiece for the government? Just give us the money, and we’ll run the propaganda shop more tightly for you.
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:47am
  - fernglas
    
    If they were behaving responsibly and not scaring the shit out of people with horror stories and clickbait headlines, I’d be more sympathetic. Moral panics are fuelled by the media and this is no exception.
    
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    April 15, 2020 11:05am
RW Capitalist

If by it’s ridiculous economic management makes any worse decisions than they have already made.
This is what we stand to lose by making impossible for foreign companies operate here.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/326190/foreign-ownership-nears-50-percent
YES half our economy could be lost, simply by the international retrenchment of global companies.
The impact on those companies (global presence) would be minimal.
The impact on us…..disastrous.
So, there are 2 things the govt. needs to understand.
Preservation of this international business relationship and the preservation of small business.
NOTE they are not separate and distinct, many small businesses actually supply and service these multinationals.
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April 15, 2020 10:42am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Such is the interdependence
  Small businesses go under, international business have no services
  International businesses leave, small businesses have body to service.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:05pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    OOPS “nobody to service”
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:19pm
Doubledimp

I see the 99 year old who is doing sponsored walk for the NHS has reached 4 million pounds.

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/tomswalkforthenhs

Say what you like about the Poms, the NHS is a shining example of how to do govt healthcare properly. (the failed IT project in the noughties is the exception)
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April 15, 2020 10:48am
- RW Capitalist
  
  up ticked, but to qualify
  the NHS used to be a great thing, it has been run into the ground by successive govt.s since it’s inception (both Conservative and Labour).
  I believe this is the fatal flaw in it, it didn’t take into account the flawed attitude of successive govt.s and public servants.
  
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  April 15, 2020 10:56am
- The worm that turned
  
  Really? I’ve worked in the health care systems of 6 countries and the UK has some of the lowest standards I’ve ever seen in a 1st world country. I’d much rather be sick in Germany, Singapore or Australia’s and so would you.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:14am
  - freethinker
    
    Germany has charity hospitals! Perhaps their hospital system is not as flash as you think.
    
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    April 15, 2020 3:07pm
- krazykiwi
  
  A shining example, so much so that one of the few remaining people who can remember life before the NHS has decided it needs more money.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:45am
RW Capitalist

Essential business, supply chain.
If a supermarket is an essential business
therefore the delivery truck is an essential service,
the fuel is an essential business
the service mechanic is an essential business
All products are packaged
so the card board/ bottle makers are essential businesses
the carton manufacturer are an essential business
the ink used to print the packaging is an essential business
the glue maker that glues the boxes together is an essential business
The business that tests and certifies the scales, wrappers, fridges, lighting etc is an essential businesses….etc etc
My point is
Supply chain is not like an anchor chain, but more like a chain link fence/ spider web.
Remove one part and the whole thing falls down, sooner or later.
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April 15, 2020 10:53am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Not said by me but Ben was much more succinct.
  For the want of a nail the shoe was lost,
  For the want of a shoe the horse was lost,
  For the want of a horse the rider was lost,
  For the want of a rider the battle was lost,
  For the want of a battle the kingdom was lost,
  And all for the want of a horseshoe-nail.”
  
  ― Benjamin Franklin
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:24am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Oh all this business stuff!! It’s just sooo borey-worey…
  
  Can’t wait for this drat lockdown to end – first thing I’m going to do is head down to my favourite kaf with my bff’s for a smashed avo and kinwa salad. We really need to start strategising how to deal with our troublesome social issues
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:47am
- JackRabbit
  
  So if the guy that glues the boxes together has lost all his staff and is working 15 hours a day to complete orders, his health and well being are essential.
  
  He is divorced, so to relieve stress from the pressure he is under, he needs proper sexual release every other day, otherwise he can’t cope.
  
  To keep machinery running he is bunking down at work. But he does not have time or facilities to cook, so he lives, for the short term, on takeaways.
  
  David Clarke believes adventure parking are part of his essential chain, Ginny whatshername believes Rail trailing is part of her essential chain, and Winston believes that banned fishing is part of his essential chain.
  
  So are takeaway shops and ladies of the night part of the box gluer’s essential business chain? 😉
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:59am
- freethinker
  
  RWC
  Like your analysis, will you do one on the coalition of clowns to brighten my day with the hope they will collapse 19 Sept 2020?
  
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  April 15, 2020 3:10pm
Brian McDonald

A description of timidity:
“Skegg echoed Murphy’s remarks about the importance of contact tracing and surveillance testing, suggesting those measures were a prerequisite to any change in alert status.
Speaking to Newsroom after the meeting, National leader Simon Bridges said he wanted the post-lockdown environment to be one where “businesses can get back to business”.
“What I mean by that is moving from this essential services framework … to one where actually if a business, whether it be in construction or online trade or a hairdresser for that matter, can assure the Government that it is meeting certain safeguards, whether it be through no contact or social distancing or just good hygiene, that we allow that to happen.”
Ardern and her ministers had trumpeted a “go hard and go early” approach to the lockdown, and needed to maintain that attitude to loosening the restrictions rather than succumbing to timidity.”
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April 15, 2020 10:54am
- SGA
  
  Unless Bridges (or Ardern, for that matter) really have an excellent projection for one week’s time, then don’t make promises you can’t keep. This isn’t something to be playing “on the count of three – one, two, two and 1/4, two and a 1/3 … “. As cmm commented a few days ago, once you signal you plan to lift the restrictions, people will increasingly start to behave more like they already have been.
  
  When you think you are really sure that you are ready to “go”, then “go” – it makes no sense to wait a week (small local businesses, the ones most likely to get the nod, can get up and moving pretty quickly).
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:39am
- freethinker
  
  A neighbour had a job for MBIE doing tracing, it lasted 1 day, unsure if the work will be reinstated.
  
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  April 15, 2020 3:12pm
Happychappy

A very good listen on pod cast with Mills and Hooton from RNZ.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018742566
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April 15, 2020 10:59am
Bill felt

How much did the increase in the minimum wage contribute to the demise of Burger King?
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April 15, 2020 10:59am
- brett68
  
  I’d say their shithouse burgers had more to do with it.
  I used to love a whopper burger, when they first came to NZ they were delicious, nice BBQ meat flavour, big and filling, now they are uneditable.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:08am
  - herb1
    
    are you referring to the Digital edition of the whopper burger?
    
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    April 15, 2020 11:38am
    - brett68
      
      When they were first here in the ’90s, they were a damn good burger.
      
      Carls Jnr is close to what the original BK used to be.
      
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      April 15, 2020 12:19pm
  - MCos
    
    Two points there
    It doesn’t take long to make far better burgers in your own kitchen than any of those American junk food outfits.
    If you’re going to grizzle about paying someone $18.90/hr don’t expect flash burgers
    
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    April 15, 2020 12:48pm
    - brett68
      
      You obviously have a very weird diet if you consider a burger junk food?
      
      Vegetables, meat, cheese, bread, how is that junk food?
      
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      April 15, 2020 1:07pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Put your pen away and eat them then 😉
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:51pm
I remember when

Among a number of reasons we may have been lucky is the fact the virus spread west into Italy, the rest of Europe, the UK and the US. For some reason (did Taiwan, Singapore, Japan and Hong Kong help) there was little, slow spread South. Australian results may been for the same reason.
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April 15, 2020 11:05am
krazykiwi

Trump is defunding WHO.

Trump, at a White House news conference, said the WHO had “failed in its basic duty and it must be held accountable”.
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April 15, 2020 11:14am
- SGA
  
  Yeah, he didn’t handle his press conference very well yesterday, so that’s probably part of it.
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Getting their just desserts. The CEO is corrupt and a liar.
  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-announces-funding-to-world-health-organization-who-halted?fbclid=IwAR3emTt-mNEUfXDenRz1hPc9S9DL_kCsCUb8E6FN4KdvsEVtRgf_hzAE94c
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:43am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Good!
  
  All civilized nations should be defunding the ridiculously corrupt Chinese Health Organisation (WHO).
  
  https://youtu.be/AwFTZawOc9k?t=660
  
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  April 15, 2020 11:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    At 1pm the PTPM said we will continue to donate.
    Looks good for her UN job. The sooner she fucks off the better
    
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    April 15, 2020 4:08pm
    - Joe Kerr
      
      Anyone know how much NZ tithes to the WHO?
      
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      April 15, 2020 8:19pm
      - Nickc2
        
        $3.4M US
        
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        April 16, 2020 4:30am
      - Nickc2
        
        Sorry Joe, my response below should read $US 1.4m
        
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        April 16, 2020 6:11am
WaveyDavey

Interesting

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/120998320/nzdf-leaves-south-auckland-in-the-dark-about-imminent-military-exercise

Great way to promote suspicion
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April 15, 2020 11:38am
Libertarians are right

I had a read of Siouxsie’s response to the people who said we should drop down. Here’s my response to her response.

Point One (The risk has been overstated):
She said: Different countries use different ways to measure CFR so it isn’t relevant to compare them.
My Response: They didn’t compare it to other countries, they compared it to NZ’s flu stats and their comparison was both valid and ignored by her.
She said: The young people haven’t died yet but will and NOTHING ABOUT NZ MAKES US MAGICALLY DIFFERENT (this seems to be her biggest point).
My Response:
We have a low average age compared to most areas with bad results.
We have extremely low population density compared to most areas with bad results.
We have far better air than most areas with bad results.
We have far more (potential) control over our borders than most areas with bad results.

Those are all well known and proven factors that mitigate the damage done by Covid 19. Yes people will die but it’s dishonest to believe it’ll be at the same rate as everywhere else.

Point Two (The virus hasn’t had the effect on hospitals that was expected):
She said: Look at other countries, look at them!!!!
My Response: See above. We are different. Stop pretending we aren’t.

Point Three (Oz is doing well, cheaper):
She said: Look at Sweden!!! Aussie States have varying degrees of lockdowns in place.
My Response: Sweden isn’t anywhere near as bad as is being touted right now. Aussie States are still allowing much more than us and again, we should theoretically get better results than them (for the reasons above).
She said: What about the old/sick who will have to self isolate????
My response: As opposed to what they’re doing now? There’s an argument about it being for a longer term but that’s a pretty low cost to society for us not to have all the other costs of the lockdown.
She said: Economic harm has been taken into account.
My Response: There is zero evidence of this. A thousand Covid 19 deaths would probably be less than the toll in suicides and other complications (like not getting Breast Cancer screening in time) due to the lock down.

Note that not a single one of her comments in any way relates to her “expertise”. It’s more about statistical analysis.

Also, note that when the Government changes tack again she will 100% back them and attack everyone who disagrees even though her own statements contradict what she’s now saying.
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April 15, 2020 11:41am
- WaveyDavey
  
  She’s moved into the political arena – despite her repeated bleating otherwise
  
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  April 15, 2020 12:01pm
- JackRabbit
  
  She has a highly inflated idea of her own expertise.
  
  The chemicals in her hair dye might account for some of that, but her Ego is the cause of the rest.
  
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  April 15, 2020 12:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  She’s a Cindy puppet.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:19pm
  - Paulus
    
    Sandy Shaw – “Puppet on a String” !
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:47pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      More likely the type that you have to insert your hand into than the string type. Puke. 🙁
      
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      April 15, 2020 2:15pm
  - Tall Man
    
    A puppet controlling a puppet……..
    
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    April 15, 2020 1:49pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      A puppet controlling a muppet controlling a muppet.
      
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      April 15, 2020 2:16pm
WaveyDavey

WHO is reinventing history

tweet on 14 Jan said “no H2H transmission”

after the memory hole their timeline say this

“14 January 2020

WHO’s technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus…”

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/08-04-2020-who-timeline—covid-19

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20
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April 15, 2020 11:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

Well-done, the “incredible” Mr Peters

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/coronavirus-winston-peters-gets-top-marks-from-us-ambassador-for-covid-19-work.html
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April 15, 2020 11:54am
oldfella

Back in 2002, Michael Crichton wrote about humanity’s inability to predict the future. One quote::

Do we all agree that nobody knows what the future holds? Or do I have to prove it to you? I ask this because there are some well-studied media effects which suggest that simply appearing in media provides credibility. There was a well-known series of excellent studies by Stanford researchers that have shown, for example, that children take media literally. If you show them a bag of popcorn on a television set and ask them what will happen if you turn the TV upside down, the children say the popcorn will fall out of the bag. This result would be amusing if it were confined to children. But the studies show that no one is exempt. All human beings are subject to this media effect, including those of us who think we are self-aware and hip and knowledgeable.
Media carries with it a credibility that is totally undeserved. You have all experienced this, in what I call the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. (I refer to it by this name because I once discussed it with Murray Gell-Mann, and by dropping a famous name I imply greater importance to myself, and to the effect, than it would otherwise have.)
Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them..

(Here’s the full thing…) https://www.docdroid.net/4wgVecr/why-speculate-michael-crichton-pdf
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April 15, 2020 12:20pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I agree. I have worked for a number of outfits, often with quite specialised subject matter. I have often noted how superficial most media coverage is of issues on which I would consider my self informed.
  
  I like the idea of a formal name for this phenomenon. I had not heard of Gell-Mann, and now I must read his biography.
  
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  April 15, 2020 4:01pm
oldfella

For those of you who follow US politics, this is fascinating. But not surprising…
https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/04/ny-times-deleted-bidens-hugs-kisses-and-touching-from-story-because-biden-campaign-thought-that-the-phrasing-was-awkward/
Kinda like the way the NZ MSM protects Labour locals who do sexually dodgy things. Protect the party, comrades.
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April 15, 2020 12:41pm
Tasman Terror

We should move to level 3, and New Zealand First voters should be financially assisted to stay at Rosewood rest home( Level 5).
10 3
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April 15, 2020 12:45pm
oldfella

Maybe toking while on lockdown is not such a great idea.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8219145/Smoking-pot-just-occasionally-increase-risk-suffering-severe-COVID-19-complications.html
But I’m sure toking will be much less harmful once we legalise it after the referendum. I trust Cindy to know what she’s doing.
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April 15, 2020 12:50pm
- Joe Kerr
  
  That is a weak non-scientific article with no statistical or other evidence linking covid19 and cannabis.
  
  4 4
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  April 15, 2020 1:24pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Any invasion in the lungs of foreign material increases the load on the lungs.
    
    Any invasion in the lungs of chemicals that impact the cilia, cripples the ability of the lungs to self purge. Instead of expelling matter, disabled viruses and bacteria out of the lungs in a few tens of minutes, it may take hours or days or weeks.
    
    If the body is producing an excess of mucous in defending the lungs, at several times the rate of the mucous removal, you will drown in your own mucous. A fact well known by lung disease experts and asthmatics.
    
    When you think about Covid-19, clever dicks smoking joints and vaping are no different to someone who drills a hole in the bottom of their boat so they can fish easier. Budding candidates for the Darwin awards.
    
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    April 15, 2020 2:31pm
curry4me

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/why_they_hate_america_western_civilization_and_god_.html
Many get woke, or PC to fit in, or gain peer acceptance.
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April 15, 2020 12:58pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR7YVbHw1Ms
Not Saint Greta. The subject is freedom in a time of crisis.
Panic is a bigger problem the CCP virus. Sensible
Guidelines should be observed.
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April 15, 2020 12:59pm
RW Capitalist

for all those wanting to bag Trump and the Republicans (note Governors run the states in a federal republic.
California 729 deaths 39.25mill pop.
Colorado 308 deaths 5.7mill pop.
Conneticut 671 deaths 3.6mill pop.
Delaware 106 deaths 1 mill pop
Hawaii 9 deaths 1.4 mill pop.
Illinois 879 deaths 12.6 mill pop.
Kansas 69 deaths 2.9 mill pop.
Louisiana 1013 deaths 4.7 mill pop.
Maine 20 deaths 1.3 mill pop.
Michigan 1766 deaths 10 mill pop.
Montana 7 deaths 1 mill pop.
Nevada 121 deaths 3 mill pop.
New Jersey 2805 deaths 8.9mill pop.
New York 10834 deaths 19.4mill pop.
North Carolina 112 deaths 10.5mill pop.
Oregon 55 deaths 4.2mill pop.
Rhode Island 80 deaths 1mill pop.
Virginia 154 deaths 8.5mill pop.
Washington 529 deaths 7.6mill pop.
Wisconsin 172 deaths 5.8mill pop.
TOTAL 20439 deaths 151.35 mill
ALL Democrat governors 80% of the deaths
50% of the population.
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April 15, 2020 1:01pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  OOHH the down tickers are back, down ticking FACTS again.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:21pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Your list is a bit tiresome to fact-check. How about list all 50 states, with deaths/million, and the political affiliation of governor and legislature. Frankly, I doubt there is any causal link between a governor’s partisanship and his or her state’s outcome from the virus.
    
    2 9
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    April 15, 2020 2:30pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      How about you do it.
      I have already collated
      The states with Democrat Governors
      The numbers covid 19 deaths in those states
      The over all population of those states.
      The difference is easy, a pocket calculator should do.
      About 5000 deaths spread over the rest of the states (Republican governors)
      Remaining population of the USA approx. 170 mill
      Like I said, you work it out.
      
      7 3
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      April 15, 2020 3:05pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Is it possible Democrat states have a lower socioeconomic demographic? Y’know, higher densities, lower health outcomes, standard of living etc…
  
  Exactly the sort of states Trump withheld ventilators from.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:39pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Bull shit
    He sent 2 navy hospital ships (1000 beds each)
    built military tent city in Central park
    sent 100’s of ventilators to NYC who promptly left them in a warehouse.
    
    9 3
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    April 15, 2020 2:27pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Didn’t include the 67 deaths in Washington DC, which are recorded separately from Virginia.
  Another Democrat in charge.
  
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  April 15, 2020 2:52pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Oh, Washington DC? Does that mean you will do a similar list for all the metropolitan areas?
    
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    April 15, 2020 3:20pm
kowtow

If something like this happened anywhere in the Anglo Saxon world the international Media party would go into wacist over drive and somehow seek to pin it on Trump , colonialism ,or some other western ism.

As it’s from they who buy our everything , perhaps not so much.

” US chain McDonald’s has apologized after a sign telling black people they were banned from entering a branch in Guangzhou prompted outrage online, following reports of discriminatory treatment toward Africans in the city.”

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/section-news/section/11/218157/McDonald's-Guangzhou-branch-shut-over-black-people-ban-sign
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April 15, 2020 1:05pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  The situation in fascist China is getting even more dire than that. With widespread racism against foreigners. Especially black Africans:
  
  https://youtu.be/KQaNdTKQyLY?list=WL&t=306
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think the ‘Anglo-Saxon’ world has moved on from such overt signs of racism. Nowadays, racism is more likely to manifest itself more subtlety, as in some US states deliberately making it hard for minorities to vote.
  
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  April 15, 2020 2:13pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    some US states deliberately making it hard for minorities to vote.
    Name the states
    State the methods
    ID at polls don’t count, that just stops people from voting twice, or in proxy of the dead.
    
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    April 15, 2020 2:55pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Feel free to name actual cases of in-person voter fraud. It is vanishingly rare. Even Kris Korbach’s laughable commission couldn’t find anything.
      
      2 13
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      April 15, 2020 3:24pm
      - Nutta
        
        You didn’t answer the question, which was pretty straightforward and reasonable. Did you make your assertion up?
        
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        April 15, 2020 10:21pm
Martin Williams

Trump leads the US past the 25,000 mark, doesn’t care. 🙁

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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April 15, 2020 1:13pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Martin doesn’t understand what ‘per Capita’ means.
  Hey, you stopped beating your wife yet?
  //
  
  See, it’s easy to make unsubstantiated smears.
  
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  April 15, 2020 2:10pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  But he does care, very much, about how unfair the nasty media has been to him. Poor man-baby.
  
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  April 15, 2020 2:16pm
RW Capitalist

JA on the TV now, just did it again
Took credit for someone elses idea.
in this case David Seymour, re pay cuts for politicians.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/david-seymour-forges-ahead-proposal-cut-mps-pay-in-solidarity-kiwis-losing-work-during-pandemic
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April 15, 2020 1:15pm
- niggly
  
  Just goes to show how insincere and useless Labour are at governing – perception wise they should have done this 3-4 weeks ago when people were being made redundant.
  
  Too Little, Too Late Cindy!
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:36pm
dog_eat_dog

20% paycuts of massively overpaid public sector CEOs is somehow leadership? As someone who has taken a hit greater than double that, and off a less-than-six-figure base, I stunned by the audacity of this claim of ‘leadership’.
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April 15, 2020 1:20pm
- Wired-one
  
  It’s all about the optics of it. David Seymour has been calling for it for weeks. It’s not leadership, its reacting to a lot of negative talk about her leadership from the public. Ardern does not lead, she reacts.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:44pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “she reacts”
    
    Slowly.
    
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    April 15, 2020 8:34pm
- dog_eat_dog
  
  It’s also three weeks into the lockdown and most private companies were frantically re-arranging payrolls as a matter of survival one day one. Don’t forget these people have total and absolute job security, while many of us don’t know if our jobs will still be there when the lockdown ends. But sure. This is ‘leadership’.
  
  Words fail me.
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:47pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Public servants do not have ‘total and absolute job security’. Many have been laid off multiple times.
    
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    April 15, 2020 2:18pm
    - freethinker
      
      MM_To follow past examples by yourself – provide reliable accurate facts.
      
      3 1
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      April 15, 2020 3:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m actually not sure how to give you stats. Most public servants I know have been through multiple restructurings and redundancies. Most of the very high turnover (typically 10-15%) in public agencies is just churn form one agency to another, usually as a result of organisational changes.
        I’m not aware of any consolidated data. Agencies provide info to parliament each year on the number of redundancies and their costs, but this information is not collated so far as I know, and it would be very laborious to do so.
        So sorry, you will just have to accept my impressions from experience, or ignore them.
        
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        April 15, 2020 6:49pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Many have been laid multiple times.
      Fixed it for you Mike – no need to thank me sonny, supreme commander will explain it to you
      
      3 3
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      April 15, 2020 4:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah,
  how much of those savings will trickle down to the folks who are being laid off this month?
  
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  April 15, 2020 1:49pm
rangitoto

Well done David Seymour.
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April 15, 2020 1:25pm
RW Capitalist

Govt. picking business winners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lN4TSslz-0
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April 15, 2020 1:44pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The problem with Zoos….when the $$$$$$ dry up
Coronavirus: German zoo may have to feed animals to each other
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52283658
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April 15, 2020 1:59pm
- kowtow
  
  Germany is a zoo.
  
  I’m left wondering if the suspects were Jappos as the cops seized samurai swords…….
  
  ‘Police in Germany’s financial capital, Frankfurt, were attacked by men with stones and iron bars while enforcing social distancing measures to slow the spread of coronavirus, authorities said on Saturday.’
  
  https://www.dw.com/en/germany-police-attacked-while-enforcing-social-distancing-measures/a-53098580
  
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  April 15, 2020 2:12pm
GoVege

I was at the supermarket yesterday.
There was no queue outside, and it was packed inside with few seeming to be practicing social distancing.
I suspect the citizens are getting thoroughly fed up with level 4.
16 2
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April 15, 2020 1:59pm
mikenmildagain

I see Rich Prick has left us. Sad!
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April 15, 2020 2:06pm
- kowtow
  
  Que?
  
  7 1
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  April 15, 2020 2:21pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    From GD last night:
    
    Just a few days ago I was rebuked by a moderator and had a comment deleted for poking a bit of fun at fat aviation security guards running around the hills of Miramar looking for criminals out for a walk on Easter Sunday. Think about the premise of that for a moment and imagine the Miramar Hills, the fatter ones wouldn’t have made 500 meters. Never mind them managing it vertically. I suggested that Crims hinting they may be easily disassembled by an explodey might have lowered their BMI. I think that was the offending bit, not that I see it anywhere in the comments policy.
    But this is more about Kiwiblog. A few lefties jumped down my throat demanding more authoritarianism, as they always do.
    But I was really surprised that this blog did the same thing. So, I’m off, great knowing you economic liberals and social conservatives. The leftie wankers heave caused this place to self-censor way too much for my liking. The pussy hats have won. Wear your’s with a frown.
    
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    April 15, 2020 3:27pm
    - kowtow
      
      Thank you.
      
      Pity .
      
      6 1
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      April 15, 2020 3:40pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Can people buy ‘pussy hats’ at your online sex shop Mike?
      Oh, and where is my large pocket pussy that I ordered the other day?
      
      7 3
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      April 15, 2020 4:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You need to go to the website. Most items are classed as ‘essential’. You may need a medical certificate, depending upon the equipment sought to support your particular perversion.
        
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        April 15, 2020 5:10pm
    - freethinker
      
      MM – So whats you comment got to do with Rich Prick?
      
      4 2
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      April 15, 2020 5:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I just mentioned he had gone, and posted his valedictory address.
        
        2 5
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        April 15, 2020 6:44pm
Surely Knott

20 new cases today. (some probable not confirmed) But would be good if Ministry of Health could add to their spreadsheet a cluster column so we could know if an individual has been counted as part of a cluster. And they could even put a number for smaller clusters if the person knew the international traveller they got it from. Then we would know how many random community transmissions we have. A number of the people getting it are still coming in directly from overseas after the lockdown.
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April 15, 2020 2:19pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  PTPM dodging numbers as is Bloomfield.
  JA wants numbers to go down, then have a second wave. More control.
  Planes still arriving – some passengers tested, but it is very lax. Much done while media is there, not much done when no media.
  Passengers going to hotels when we have Whangaparaoa, Whenuapai, Papakura,
  ???
  
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  April 15, 2020 4:26pm
oldfella

I don’t have the medical background to comment on this story, but the suggestion is that countries that vaccinate against TB may have better success battling the Chinese Wuhan coronavirus.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-protection-using-tuberculosis-vaccine.html
I assume NZ still gives kids TB shots. Pretty sure I had mine back in primary school. Probably the same with Aussie. Thoughts, anyone?
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April 15, 2020 2:20pm
- Hollyfield
  
  I’m also not a medical person. I saw that article, too, and thought it was interesting.
  
  I received a TB shot at school in Form 3 (Year 9), however my daughter now aged 20 did not receive it at school. TB is no longer on the immunisation schedule for most people (except for high-risk people such as living in the sane house as someone with TB, or coming from a country with a high rate of TB). https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/immunisation/new-zealand-immunisation-schedule
  
  I think it was virtually eradicated in NZ, so it was removed from the schedule, but a medical professional mentioned to me a couple of years ago that it was becoming a problem again, because of people who come from overseas with it who could pass it on to unimmunised people in NZ.
  
  Immigration requires chest xrays for some people to confirm they don’t have TB https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/tools-and-information/medical-info/when-you-need-an-x-ray-or-medical-examination
  
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  April 15, 2020 3:25pm
greybeard

Just a couple of observations:

The Burger King has abdicated.
David Seymour will make a fine P.M. this year.
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April 15, 2020 2:38pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  People leave established political parties to lead joke minor parties, not the other way around.
  
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  April 15, 2020 3:29pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Metiria Turei???? Or are you admitting that the Greens are a joke?
    
    7 1
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    April 15, 2020 4:46pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I don’t think she was an MP for anyone else by Alliance/Greens, was she?
      
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      April 15, 2020 6:40pm
  - freethinker
    
    MM_Doubt Tariana Turia or Shane Jones would agree.
    
    6 2
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    April 15, 2020 5:59pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Depends n the definition of ‘joke’. I’m happy to remove that word from my assertion, although many here would regard both the Maori Party and NZ First as jokes.
      
      3 4
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      April 15, 2020 6:41pm
Durden

A non-Covid-19 question.

Last week I remember seeing an ad on TV (One) multiple times for a program that showed the preacher at Al Noor mosque suggesting that the shooter has visited the mosque multiple times and knew it very well.

Can anyone tell me if that programme was aired at all ? And if so what the name of the program was?
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April 15, 2020 2:45pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Does this help…
  
  In a promotional video clip for a Newshub story to be aired on Sunday night, the An-Nur Imam Gamal Fouda is shown saying the shooter had previously prayed in the mosque and knew it “like his house”. Fouda told Stuff the interview was from April last year.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/120976868/christchurch-mosque-attacks-police-say-no-evidence-gunman-entered-mosque-before-attack
  
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  April 15, 2020 7:37pm
  - Durden
    
    Thanks Maggy. You deliver as always. The ad does not seem to airing any more. We will see at the weekend if the program airs and if this part is still in it.
    
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    April 15, 2020 10:50pm
emmess

Good article from Bob Jones
https://nopunchespulled.com/2020/04/13/the-coming-economic-crisis-and-its-political-consequences/?fbclid=IwAR2DFoul0BBJ8FZ_5g_lQZHR2pO5JxvWzixGhOsvBXQxHEumuzaXq9-Nx7E
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April 15, 2020 2:49pm
Poppa

So the ultimate irony story for today

I was talking to a funeral director earlier & their income is severely impacted with this circus
7 1
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April 15, 2020 4:14pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121036470/coronavirus-police-order-hone-harawiras-covid19-checkpoints-to-run-correctly
I would rather see a headline that says ” Police tell Harawira to stuff-off or be arrested for intimidation/anarchy/rebellion/treason/whatever.”
How do these people get away with it?
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April 15, 2020 4:48pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Civilians cannot be allowed to block roads. WTF are the police doing? There is no way I would stop for them. If I erected a road block I would be arrested.
  
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  April 15, 2020 7:13pm
emmess

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern: “At a time like this when we need to be sharing information and we need to have advice we can rely on, the WHO has provided that. We will continue to support it.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52289273

Advice we can rely on ??????
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April 15, 2020 5:13pm
kowtow

The Cops , how the fuck can you break the law “correctly” .

As an aside , since when has police been a singular noun in this context ? It’s something that they’ve been doing recently.

“Police has ” ?

“Police has engaged with those operating checkpoints and have advised them on the appropriate way of engaging with members of the public.”
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April 15, 2020 6:33pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Collective nouns can be tricky, and there is no one simple rule for them.
  For example, “the team is on the field” is valid, but so is “the team are talking to each other”.
  
  2 4
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  April 15, 2020 8:08pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    STILL on here
    Sad Mikey, sad.
    
    6 1
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    April 15, 2020 8:46pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    “Police” always takes a plural verb.
    
    1 0
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    April 15, 2020 9:01pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  “Learnings” FFS
  
  2 0
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  April 15, 2020 8:23pm
ex-golfer

So the PM and her band of merry advisors have proven once again they can’t do maths.
If the numbers quoted in this article are correct, they have taken a 20% annualised reduction and halved the amount to represent the 6-month decrease – which in real terms means only a 10% annualised decrease in their salary.
Will any of our bright and well educated media (sarc intended) question this?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/coronavirus-here-s-what-jacinda-ardern-and-simon-bridges-will-earn-after-their-20-percent-pay-reduction.html
10 1
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April 15, 2020 7:08pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  I reckon they have done this to take credit away from Seymour….
  
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  April 15, 2020 7:32pm
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121039034/jacinda-ardern-rejects-donald-trumps-reasons-for-defunding-world-health-organisation

Of course. At least she said “reject” rather than “refute”. I guess that is grammatical progress.
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April 15, 2020 7:08pm
- cmm
  
  Good on Trump.
  
  WHO have stopped doing their assigned tasks and have become political shills for the Chinese.
  
  12 2
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  April 15, 2020 7:25pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Looks like Ardern has as well
    
    9 1
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    April 15, 2020 8:47pm
rightoverlabour

Hello Greta. Hur fan är du? Pity about that global warming, now that we have a real crisis in the world. However, so as to not disappoint you, have a look at this terrible warming over in the USA. Mother nature is really giving it to old Trump….

https://electroverse.net/arctic-april-grips-in-north-america/
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April 15, 2020 7:31pm
- Batman
  
  Congrats, proof that the climate is…. Changing.
  
  Great self-own.
  
  3 7
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  April 15, 2020 7:42pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Yes, its getting colder as CO2 increases. So that basically debunks the theory that increased CO2 will cause warming, which is what Greta e al have been going on about. No self-own nothing…. And with the increased volcanism especially eruptions into the Stratosphere, expect it to get colder and colder…
    
    5 3
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    April 15, 2020 7:53pm
  - mark15
    
    Why is it climate when it suits and weather when it doesnt? BM
    
    3 1
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    April 15, 2020 8:31pm
rightoverlabour

Who else mutes the radio the moment those annoying Corona updates occur in that annoying speak – slowly – to – a -moron voice?
8 3
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April 15, 2020 7:48pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The morons do?
  
  2 7
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  April 15, 2020 8:09pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Bugger – snapped….
    
    3 1
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    April 15, 2020 9:08pm
Muzza M

Hi Folks
Like a lot of you I am sick and tired of this Covid-19 stuff, but also like a lot of you it has got me thinking. I don’t comment here often so please hear me out.
I believe there are people out there who want to bring Western (our) civilisation down. Plan A was to invade the West with people with unfamiliar cultures who have no intention of assimilating, and demanding we change our ways to theirs. This would appear to have been largely unsuccessful for a number of reasons. Plan B, when Plan A did not appear to be working, introduce a new style, bacterial/viral warfare. The way we in the West are reacting to this situation is in my opinion, simply over the top. Why these people want to destroy our way of life is confusing, they accumulated the funds to do this through our ways. I hope I am wrong. Please feel free to share your thoughts. Agree or disagree, these are just my thoughts.
Cheers
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April 15, 2020 8:02pm
rightoverlabour

Everyone should post old pics of themselves on Facebook, just to piss the stupid pricks off

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/couple-fined-for-posting-old-photos-during-coronavirus-lockdown/
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April 15, 2020 8:06pm
- Max Howler
  
  omg do we pay people to ~~stalk~~ monitor face-book pages?
  
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  April 17, 2020 7:53am
rightoverlabour

Worth watching

Mallen Baker…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNI_VktxJw
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April 15, 2020 9:07pm

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