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April 21, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 April 2020

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PhilBest

Don Beckett posted this in a comment yesterday and hardly anyone noticed it. It is a “must read”:
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/04/things-are-going-to-get-better/

“…A month ago, the press was full of stories implying that everybody was going to die in a few months, as the disease rises out of control in an exponential curve.
This led to panicked decisions by governors and mayors, who shut everything down and crushed the economy, putting more than 20 million Americans out of work so far.
But the exponential rise did not continue. After three weeks, new cases plateaued.
Most other countries have followed similar three week patterns…”
The author points out that even the 1918 Spanish Flu followed a 3 week pattern, only it was 500 times as lethal as COVID-19.
“…An Israeli mathematician has shown that a similar pattern is happening all over the Northern Hemisphere with the current outbreak. He also says that lockdowns serve little purpose other than to decimate the economy…”
This commentary about Colorado is directly relevant to NZ:
“…Here is data from Colorado, where the state was locked down on March 25. Deaths are becoming rare in Colorado, and are a tiny fraction of what models predicted. A large percentage of the deaths were in nursing homes.
At first glance, it appears that the lockdown was successful – but let’s take a closer look at that idea. There is typically a three week lag between infection and death.
This means that the effect of the Colorado lockdown would be just starting to show up in the graph now. However, the curve started to tail off two weeks ago, long before the lockdown would have had much (if any) effect on death rates.
The Governor will of course take credit for this, even though there is little evidence to support that idea. More likely Colorado is just following the same curve described by the Israeli mathematicians…”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-israeli-prof-claims-simple-stats-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/
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April 21, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  This quote from C. S. Lewis, 1948, bears repeating here.
  
  “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:02am
  - JibberJabber
    
    LoL, 4 morons(so far) have Down Thumbed this observable and verifiable truth.
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:50am
- Peter Lane
  
  The AM Show breathlessly informed us this morning that Japan was looking at something around 300,000 death toll.
  
  Don’t these people ever learn?
  
  Also the newsreader has a serious case of Jacinda adoration syndrome.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:07am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    From the One News website this morning: “A government virus task force has warned that, in a worst-case scenario where no preventive measures were taken, more than 400,000 could die due to shortages of ventilators and other intensive care equipment.”
    
    This was directly above a paragraph stating that they had ordered 15,000 more ventilators and had the support of both Sony and Toyota to produce more.
    
    So they set out the scariest, worst possible case scenario that is immediately disqualified by the actions already taken. No mention of the best-case scenario – scaremongering, plain and simple.
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:15am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Panic Porn
      
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      April 21, 2020 8:18am
    - brighteyes
      
      This is the media.
      These models refereed typically represent the scenario of no govt intervention. Which of course is occurring.
      
      So of course the model predictions are “wrong”.
      That’s a good thing.
      
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      April 21, 2020 8:19am
      - alex Masterley
        
        Bit like the climate change models all our woke friends adore.
        
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        April 21, 2020 8:52am
      - rouppe
        
        “That’s a good thing”
        
        No it’s not. There isn’t a government anywhere that is doing absolutely nothing. So a model predicated on a condition that is impossible to replicate is not just a wrong thing, it’s a bad thing
        
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        April 21, 2020 10:20am
    - notreadyet
      
      And the models best came scenario suggested deaths barely in the teen’s when using an R of 1 along with tracking and tracing, the 8-14000 figure came from R2.5 and no tracking and tracing, was that ever realistic. And the 80000 came ftom the PTPM head, all purely scare tactics to bring the masses inyo line
      
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      April 21, 2020 8:40am
    - hullkiwi
      
      …and if you listened to Sir Reg Avery being interviewed by Sean Plunkett yesterday, you will have heard that those patients in ICU have more chance of surviving if they are not put on mechanical ventilators.
      
      The problem is the damage that the machines do to people’s windpipe when tubes are inserted.
      
      But instead we get the misinformation of the MoH, govt, MSM propaganda machine.
      
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      April 21, 2020 8:55am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        No, the problem is not ‘the damage done to the (trachea) by (intubation).’
        
        This is a helpful resource for background – IMO.
        
        https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/
        
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        April 21, 2020 9:18am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Is he still around. How did he get on with that fundraising concert he was organising?
        
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        April 21, 2020 9:18am
      - DeepBlue
        
        Ventilators are always the last resort, no matter the illness. 50% success at best.
        
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        April 21, 2020 9:35am
      - cmm
        
        Correct, ventilators cause a lot of damage to frail people and those with poor lungs.
        
        Ventilators are not nearly as magic as many people think and there are good reason why many patients avoid them.
        
        The main damage is from two sources:
        1) Long term ventilation (many weeks) can cause bacterial infections leading to pneumonia.
        2) Ventilators force air into the lungs, thus often causing barotrauma (pressure trauma) of the alveoli (the wee air sacks).
        
        The lungs normally work by external suction caused by the diaphragm (that’s also how the old fashioned iron lungs worked) . On a ventilator it is internal pressure which is more likely to cause damage to lung tissue.
        
        Then add complications like COPD (emphysema) etc and a ventilator can be quite brutal.
        
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        April 21, 2020 9:43am
      - Ed Snack
        
        EH, that’s an interesting story, especially the late comment that maybe the issue with CV19 is unusual in that although blood oxygen levels are extremely low (indeed at levels normally considered lethal), patients typically do not display the normal acute distress symptoms. That could be (theory) because the lungs are able to clear CO2 from the blood, but not infuse enough O2. That is that the distress symptoms are at least partially caused by excess CO2.
        
        The patients do go on to die at high levels, so the ultra-low O2 levels are very dangerous.
        
        I really don’t know, but could this be related to the Virus binding to Haem and preventing O2 uptake but NOT blocking CO2 uptake as that uses different binding sites in red blood cells. The study that proposed this was based purely on computer modelling of protein binding sites but maybe it’s worth a harder look as this data certainly fits that scenario. Though I’m sure that some group or groups somewhere are investigating these anomalies.
        
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        April 21, 2020 12:21pm
  - Tricati
    
    Sounds like they got Shaun Hendy to do their modelling to scare the crap out of people to justify the draconian actions – Sound familliar.
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:18am
  - Im Right
    
    Amanda Gillies is only there because they needed a female to ‘balance’ the team. She tries to come across as the ‘mother figure’ and everyone/everything is wonderful and never has a bad word to say about anything. She is basically the female rainbow and gives insight from a female perspective, the type of woman who would have all pink work tools and an image of a USA 1950’s advert of a woman. Why they picked her I will never know, perhaps so she can empathise with the homeless/renting population as she doesn’t own her own home despite making a 6 figure salary for the best part of 20 years!
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:41am
    - hullkiwi
      
      What Giles, a younger version of that air head Hilary Barry?
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:41am
    - The Boss
      
      As woke as they come. She always has plenty of bad things to say about Donald Trump. She adores Jacinda and thinks Grant is also great.
      
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      April 21, 2020 8:03pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Re Japan:
    
    What mortality rate is 300,000 people (if it even happens) out of 126 million of whom 25% are over 65?
    
    FFS. Context, context, context!! Non-existent in the MSM.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:07am
  - Inandout
    
    Peter, just avoid that show with the sycophants such as Garner and Ruby Lips. I prefer radio now with Hosking.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:40am
    - tf78
      
      Hosking for us then over to Magic these days, Peter Williams is an absolute gem.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:44am
  - kwkiwigirl
    
    Yes noticed this morning that the Gillies woman on AM show is starting to irritate me as much as Cindy. If it weren’t for Duncan and Mark I don’t think I’d bother with that show anymore.
    
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    April 21, 2020 12:29pm
    - Peter Lane
      
      I only watch it for Mark Richardson. I know he’s a bit of a pain in the arse sometimes but he often articulates exactly what I’m thinking.
      
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      April 21, 2020 1:27pm
- Andrew Worth
  
  “…A month ago, the press was full of stories implying that everybody was going to die in a few months, as the disease rises out of control in an exponential curve.”
  I didn’t see any of those stories and I’m damn sure you can find any.
  “But the exponential rise did not continue. After three weeks, new cases plateaued.
  Most other countries have followed similar three week patterns…”
  The rate of transmission fell as a result of lock-downs, in countries that went into lock-down early in the stage of community spread the rates remained lower, in countries that went into lock-down at a late in the community spread the infection rates were higher.
  The flattening of the curves in all countries followed the implementation of measures to lower transmission rates – either government imposed measures or measures taken by people as individuals.
  
  “The author points out that even the 1918 Spanish Flu followed a 3 week pattern, only it was 500 times as lethal as COVID-19.”
  The author ignores the fact that social distancing measures were also used to combat the spread of the Spanish flu. We’re currently at about the same stage in the spread of Covid-19 as the world was in terms of the spread of Spanish Flu in March 1918, the vast majority of the deaths from Spanish Flu happened after that date.
  
  “There is typically a three week lag between infection and death.”
  This claim is wrong, the mean time of death after infection might be 3 weeks, but the median time of death is about 10 days, half of those that die from Covid-19 die within 10 days, the rest of the deaths are spread out over several weeks, dragging the mean time of death back another 10 – 14 days.
  
  Why would the disease “play itself out over 70 days” unless the infection and natural immunity rates had been high enough for a community to reach the stage of herd immunity – something that doesn’t happen until infection rates get to 40 – 75%? We certainly have not reached anything like a level of infection rates to have achieved herd immunity – even in NY.
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:43pm
Andrei

Oil futures have gone negative – what that effectively means that if you agree today to buy crude in 3 months time you will actually be paid $37.50 for each barrel you agree to buy.

This is happening of course because there is no where to store the crude that is being produced because demand for refined fuels has cratered and the refineries storage facilities are full
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April 21, 2020 8:00am
- stewmar
  
  “Oil futures have gone negative – what that effectively means that if you agree today to buy crude in 3 months time you will actually be paid $37.50 for each barrel you agree to buy.“
  
  So will my local servo pay me to fill up my Ute?
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:49am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:40am
    - Paulus
      
      No, as the Government fuel taxes being a dollar amount not a percentage still has to be paid irrespective of the fuel value.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:06am
      - tf78
        
        How can you take a percentage of Zero.
        
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        April 21, 2020 11:46am
- NoCash
  
  Nope, only the May contract for WTI is in -ve, Brent is not in -ve, and June and beyond contracts for both Brent and WTI are not in -ve neither… at least for now, just saying 😉
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:53am
  - mark15
    
    ominous.
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:08am
  - rouppe
    
    So you have three suppliers of a product. One has found themselves in trouble and drops the price.
    
    I, as a consumer, would surely take advantage of this temporary price reduction.
    
    So why wouldn’t anyone else, and since they tell us that the price at the pump is directly related to the crude price, why wouldn’t the pump price be 50c/l, to cover the cost of the distribution ?
    
    Three days ago when I last drove past my local Mobil, it was still $1.95
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:10am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Crude oil for volume delivery to Cushing (US storage) in May is not the same as refined oil (petrol) at retail in NZ.
      
      If you want to take delivery of 10,000 barrels of crude in May in the US, knock yourself out.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:02am
    - freethinker
      
      $1.67 at Local Challenge station in Christchurch.
      
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      April 21, 2020 1:02pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Correct, it is the futures price that is negative, the current price of oil is still around US$22.
  
  And I think that is a financial derivative, not physical oil futures.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:25pm
PhilBest

This web page continues to provide an embarrassment of riches of COVID-19 sense and reason:
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/#latest

A good representative latest example:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/How-the-World-got-Fooled-by-COVID-ed-2c.pdf
About the author: Mikko Paunio, MD, MHS (epidemiology Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health) is an adjunct professor in general epidemiology at the University of Helsinki, and an official in the Ministry of Social Affairs and Health.
“…For lay people and journalists the reported death toll of COVID-19 appears to be very high, particularly when you couple the numbers with the horrific TV images from Wuhan, Northern Italy, Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, New York City and now also – to a certain extent – in some of the suburbs of Stockholm. The likely explanation for these tragic events is the high contact rates in multi-generational households, notably in immigrant communities.
However, in reality the global public health impact of the virus is limited. On average, over 150 000 people die of causes other than COVID-19 every day. The virus has increased this figure slightly, but only to a level slightly twice the death toll of the last flu season in the US. As a more specific example, Germany today reported a cumulative total of 3804 COVID-19 deaths. This figure is still a long way from the annual death toll (25 000) of its last flu season…
“…after an initial rapid rise – and the consequent surge of panic – death rates do not increase exponentially for long and are ultimately limited as social distancing measures and improvements in hygienic practices are put in place. It is known for sure that SARS-CoV-2 virus can be lethal, especially among the elderly. It is undoubtedly a nasty enemy if, due to its extremely rapid initial spread, it overwhelms health services or decimates communities with high contact rates between young and old. It is of particular concern in dense cities, where hospitals can be quickly overwhelmed…”
The author particularly criticizes the WHO and national health authorities for 4 months of failure to recognize COVID-19’s very high rate of asymptomatic infection, much faster rate of spread, and much lower actual mortality.
“…If this low value is correct – and there is now considerable support for my view – then there are important implications. In particular, it is likely that some parts of the world have already achieved herd immunity. The abrupt decline of the death toll in New York City has been ascribed to the lockdown measures taken but, as I set out in Annex II, it appears more likely that there are simply not enough uninfected people now for the virus to attack. An IFR value of 0.1%, which is likely to be a conservative figure, suggests that everyone has been infected already. This implies that SARS-CoV-2 spread rapidly before almost anyone was aware of it…”
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April 21, 2020 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  Also from that excellent web page of collated sense and reason on COVID-19, a needed focus on Rest Homes is starting to occur in parts of the world….
  
  https://ltccovid.org/2020/04/12/mortality-associated-with-covid-19-outbreaks-in-care-homes-early-international-evidence/
  
  The British clusterf–k:
  
  https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/17/care-homes-and-covid19/
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:07am
TWEEDSE

5 days = 2 days.

Yet again Ardern the Destroyer shows her world class understanding of maths and economics.
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April 21, 2020 8:01am
- Harriet
  
  Wait until she tells you that red ink is of the old economy and it’ll be different this time because we are in the new economy, with computers, and models. 😎
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:43am
- Simon
  
  Yep just like her glorious “20%” salary cut. As its for six months its only a 10% salary cut. Up the workers.
  
  The bull shit just never stops.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:49am
- Prisoner of Comrade Jacinda
  
  {Corrected}
  
  “5 days = 2 days.
  
  Yet again Ardern the Destroyer shows her *lack of working class understanding* of maths and economics.”
  
  And according to Winston Smith:
  
  3+2=2
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:51am
- kglm
  
  And the word “eradication” has now been redefined. It now apparently means “zero tolerance” of the virus, while accepting that new infections will continue to happen.
  
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  April 21, 2020 3:07pm
MrTips

Lockdown Level 3 home shopping!!

Get in quick – brand new product (not a bloody Indian or Chinese parallel import!). Delivered straight to your door in a lead lined casket!!

OIL OF WINSTON

Guaranteed to (possibly) satisfy, but you can forget about getting your money back!

Ideal for:
– squeaking out from the most difficult situation
– greasing up to prospective wealth creators
– smoothing over malleable voters and supporters
– getting rid of those annoying Little noises
– polishing off traces of Green contamination and influence
– maintaining fishing and horse gear

Not intended for or effective against:
– oiling the wheels of justice
– protecting your Foundations from investigation
– anything Shane does

Get yours today, you’ll live to bloody regret it!!!
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April 21, 2020 8:02am
PhilBest

Staunch conservative opinion from the USA…
Kurt Schlichter:
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/04/20/they-cant-stop-us-from-re-opening-america-n2567177
“…Yeah, I know the Wuhan bug is still out there, but we’ve got it under control now. We’re going to start getting back to normal, although the Democrats will have to be dragged kicking and screaming because they love this. Power, economic devastation, and the ability to boss people around and oppress them – these are the things they live for.
We’re going to see a rush back to freedom. What’s going to happen is conservative states are going to start opening up and they’re going to start opening up soon. Then people in fascist nightmare states like California and New York are going to look over at Texas and North Dakota and the rest of free America and wonder why the hell they are still getting yelled at for going to the beach…”
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April 21, 2020 8:03am
- PhilBest
  
  Scott Morefield:
  https://townhall.com/columnists/scottmorefield/2020/04/20/leftists-dont-want-the-shutdown-to-end-because-they-are-living-out-their-wildest-dreams-n2567208
  “…although we were initially told to hunker down for a few weeks to “flatten the curve,” the goalposts were moved as soon as the original goal was met. Now, a significant chunk of people seemingly want the lockdowns to last forever or until a vaccine is developed, whichever comes sooner.
  The politics behind who wants to get back to work and who wants to keep their PJs on and continue their weeks-long slumber party ad infinitum are blatantly obvious…
  “…now that things are on the downward swing, it seems conservatives, and only conservatives, are chomping at the bit to get things moving again in order to save the lives of countless people for whom a second Great Depression would mean the end of their livelihoods and even some of their lives long-term. The left, on the other hand, is in no hurry, and who could blame them? Of late, they’ve witnessed many of their most insane policy goals come either to fruition or within palpable reach, and they aren’t about to let some lame protesters trying to feed their families get in the way of progress…
  “…Here are a few ways leftists are living out their wildest dreams in the age of corona:
  
  – Police State Dreams Come True
  We all know it. Leftists may seem to take on an anti-police persona when the police are out there enforcing actual laws and protecting the innocent against violent criminals, but what they really want deep down is what every good Marxist knows is necessary to keep a questioning populace in line – a Police State…
  – Trillions Down The Hole
  …There’s no way the left doesn’t win long-term when money like that goes out the door that fast.
  
  – COVID-Shaming
  If leftists are good at anything, it’s moral preening, virtue signaling, and duping some ordinary folks into thinking they are ‘good people.’…
  
  – Watching The Rubes Suffer
  To leftists, ordinary Americans are uneducated, ignorant rubes who deserve whatever pain comes their way, just for being who they are. Insisting they lose their businesses and their livelihoods on the off chance they might ‘save’ a few people from contracting a virus that’s likely only slightly more deadly than the flu is their way of saying ‘screw you’ to the part of America they hate the most. The more suffering the better, so long as they can watch it unfold on CNN from the comfort of their pristine Beltway townhouses…”
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:04am
Luke Piewalker

Stuff.co.nz has a begging bowl out today

To the editor … go. to. hell

You bankrupted yourself with your appalling leftie drivel. You made your bed now go lie in it.
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April 21, 2020 8:04am
- Tony Stuart
  
  This was my reply yesterday to a journalist I otherwise respect, who was extending the begging bowl:
  
  Unfortunately Warwick, I’m loathe to support a media organisation that has made a conscious decision to only publish one viewpoint on a particular issue, and to censor any viewpoints which oppose their stance. To me, that’s not “good journalism”, it’s political activism.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:36am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You ‘loather’ them; you are ‘loath’ to support them.
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:52am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      “Loather” great piece of correcting there, champion.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:11am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Loather is a noun. Loathe is the verb.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:48am
      - JamesP
        
        Another Google fail by the “know” it all. Unfortunately they haven’t found a way to impart background knowledge and intelligence to compliment the infinite information they supply.
        
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        April 21, 2020 10:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ooops. Muphry’s Law strikes again.
        
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        April 21, 2020 1:35pm
    - mark15
      
      M n M you are an imperial loather
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:19am
      - MH
        
        a loather day saint
        
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        April 21, 2020 10:52am
  - notreadyet
    
    This was mine
    I honestly say that I nearly choked on my breakfast this morning when I saw your plead for support for the continuation of trustworthy, accurate and reliable news reporting.
    
    Yes there may have been a long and trusted history of news reporting without fear or favour and fierce independence which has historically attracted subscribers and advertisers.
    
    Yes the local reporting that helps bind local communities from Northland to Southland together has been and still is important along with the investigative journalism.
    
    However what I see is a lot of journalism becoming advocacy and promoting varoius causes rather than reporting facts, yes I understand that a lot of reporting has to be toward the lowest common denominator so that you can reach the masses.
    
    I will give you a couple of what I believe are good examples of where the thinking people likely to be the subscribers and the advertisers will have been turned off supporting your causes.
    
    Firstly over the last couple of years what I saw as the wall to wall coverage supporting the climate change program and I emphasis the word program, don’t get me wrong of course the climate is changing ,always has and always will, evidenced by ice ages. However the sun and the changes in the sun’s cycles has a far greater impact on the Earth’s temperature than anything man is likely to do, just simply look at the differences in temperature between day and night or summer and winter. Stuffs coverage promoted the UN Globilist wealth redistribution program as fact and when I took a couple of the article authors to task was not given the courtesy of a reply which I interpreted as an arrogant response.
    
    Secondly the current major news item, again wall to wall articles promoting how our PM has done such a fantastic job at saving the country. Yes she is a fantastic communicator but in reality knows nothing else other than socialist idealogy. in this instance she is merely a mouthpiece and while it was very easy to get into this situation the real acid test is how we manage our way out of it. It was the Govts soft and slow action in securing the boarders in late Feb / early March that allowed all the infected travellers to freely enter NZ and spread the virus. Had that been done we would have avoided the lockdown. Instead we are all told we have been saved.
    
    This situation has obviously not saved Stuff or the many 1000s that are now destined to join the unemployment queues.
    
    As you will have garnered I do from time to time read online stuff articles but I can tell you it is a very selective viewing as reading all the articles would not be consistent with my ongoing mental health needs.
    
    It seems that in this current era we now find ourselves in you will have to cut costs like the rest of us or reconfigure your offering to customers to regain your former support.
    
    So I have to conclude that while I’m unlikely to put my hand in a pot of boiling water or acid I’m equally unlikely to put it in my pocket for your organisation.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:14am
  - Michael NZ
    
    TONY
    and you’re not even listing their LIST of subjects they won’t discuss because the science is settled.
    Fck them all.
    
    9 1
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    April 21, 2020 11:35am
- yomcat
  
  A few applications of my adblocker and the begging bowl is gone.
  
  27 2
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  April 21, 2020 8:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    All journalism should be free. Am I right?
    
    5 26
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    April 21, 2020 8:52am
    - Blackface Twin Reverb
      
      Yes.
      If by journalism you mean reporting pertinent and/or hidden and or uncomfortable facts, in an unbiased manner which have a bearing on the public good.
      Sophistry and opinion can reside in comfort behind a paywall for all I care.
      
      14 2
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      April 21, 2020 10:04am
    - kloyd0306
      
      All journalism (except for opinion columns) should be free of political bias and activism.
      
      There, fixed it for the resident communist.
      
      10 1
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      April 21, 2020 10:29am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Yes mikey
      free of bullshit and bias.
      
      7 1
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      April 21, 2020 11:36am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    My adblocker stays, regardless.
    
    12 1
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    April 21, 2020 8:59am
- septic skeptic
  
  Is there an option to donate 2c?
  
  9 1
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  April 21, 2020 9:08am
- igm
  
  They have ended up where they deserve by maligning business/farming at every opportunity, greasing to airhead politicians, and promoting anthropogenic global warming.
  I feel for non-editorial staff, but they should have known the political direction of their product was not conducive for holding good advertisers.
  I hope Andrew Little has an escape plan for his lackeys, as I, and those around me, sure as hell have not.
  
  21 2
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  April 21, 2020 9:16am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I emailed the “Stuff Limited Editorial Director” who started the begging yesterday, explaining why I wasn’t prepared to help. Luke has a great tl;dr version, if anyone’s interested this is what I told him (among a few other things such as the ridiculously low standards of grammar, the ubiquitous typos including one on the front page right next to his begging post).
  
  “Stuff has also embraced the trend away from telling us what happened, so we can decide what to think about it, to telling us how to think and behave. There is enormous push-back from this sort of approach, which certainly doesn’t help your declining revenue.
  
  Your lack of balance is never more evident than in the strident refusal to even entertain a range of views on “Climate Change” which in my opinion is the antithesis of journalism. The science is far from settled, the causes far from certain, and if a remedy is possible, nobody has yet put forward a clear and cogent plan for enacting it.
  
  Yet Stuff refuses point-blank to even entertain other view-points, dismissing any dissenting views with an arrogance that is almost laughable given it’s born of ignorance.
  
  So good luck with asking people to “support journalism” but I fear it will fall on deaf ears until you start demonstrating some more of the journalism you profess to be trying to save. Begging hasn’t worked well for The Guardian or Wikipedia, both of which display far higher standards of journalism and much more balance than does Stuff.
  
  Get your journalistic standards up, follow the basic rules of English and grammar, and for goodness’ sake stop telling us what to think. Then you might discover you have a product worth supporting, and even paying for. Right now you do not, in my opinion.”
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:19am
Peter Lane

Full scale war in the Lane household last night.

When Simon Bridges had the audacity to question the latest lockdown extension my other half opined ‘You can shut up too’.

Too much for me I’m afraid. I’m sick of people using this situation to shut down necessary debate on the subject.

We still live in a democracy. Just…
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April 21, 2020 8:04am
- mandk
  
  Just … ?
  
  … for the time being?
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:16am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yep, I’ve stopped bothering to point out to people the definition of Leader of the Opposition. Bridges is doing some of his best work during this Government-enhanced crisis. I can’t say Government-created because they have actually done some good work, and credit to Jacinda for being a good communicator (the only thing she actually has a qualification for).
  
  But the government has undoubtedly made it far worse than it needed to be, and Bridges’ job is to hold her to account.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:19am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Simon O’Connor nailed the whole business of being political in the FB column he published over the weekend:
    
    We also have calls for people to not be political. This is just an excuse to silence people. In these times where government has enormous power, people should absolutely be political. People should question and challenge every decision made. We must remember the enormity of decisions that are literally being made by just a few people. Parliament is suspended; people are locked in their homes; police are stopping people doing what used to be the most simplest of activities; businesses are by in large closed; travel is restricted; certain media have been banned; press conferences are highly choreographed with journalists already protesting their inability to ask questions … the list goes on. If there was a time for people to be political, it is now. So beware anyone saying ‘don’t be political’. What they are saying is that they do not want any critique of their actions.
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:41am
    - Durden
      
      This true especially of the laws which are under consideration being pushed through. Prisoner voting Residential tenancies act etc.
      
      I was told I would have 5 minutes for Oral submission. When asked why so short, they said too much interest in the law so we are rationing slots and time. I declined saying they were just whitewashing the process. So instead of giving it full consideration they shut down debate and pass the law because they have majority ? And these laws are by no means urgently needed.
      
      Yes, be ware and be warned.
      
      19 1
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      April 21, 2020 9:38am
  - emmess
    
    I would say it is a government-exarcabated crisis
    
    Well, the Chinese Communist Party created it but the NZ government made it much worse than it needed to be.
    
    29 2
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    April 21, 2020 8:41am
    - Ruahine
      
      I believe quite a good legal case could be brought against the Gov’t that they negligently, I won’t say willfully, allowed the people of New Zealand to become infected with Covid-19 because they refused to put a quarantine in place at our borders when they new that the virus was being brought into the country by international travellers.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:05am
      - PhilBest
        
        Not to mention the wilful ignoring, by the “experts” advising the government, of all the accumulating knowledge from overseas about asymptomatic infection rates and their implications.
        
        These people shouldn’t just be losing their jobs, they should be at risk of going to jail for recklessly doing exponentially greater harm in breach of their Hippocratic Oath. If a single GP did anything like it at the level of his own practice, he’d be in jail.
        
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        April 21, 2020 9:11am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      …the Chinese Communist Party created and exported it but the NZ Communist Party’s leader imported it and made it much worse than it needed to be.
      
      16 1
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      April 21, 2020 9:10am
      - Ruahine
        
        I have given you an uptick Engelbert.
        
        2 1
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        April 21, 2020 12:42pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Please point me at the evidence Engelbert. I’m not saying I don’t believe you, but I prefer to check for myself.
        
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        April 21, 2020 1:56pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Unfortunately, the Bridges lead committee cant reverse any decisions made by Cindy’s mob. They are only there to hold them to account.
    Whilst Simon is doing a good job of it IMHO, the MSM is not reporting it. The MSM is too interested in boosting the re-election prospects of the CoL.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:42am
  - JamesP
    
    The evidence of Jacinda’s economic wrecking ball is yet to sink in for most. Sure some in the media talk about it but it isn’t real yet. Most are still happily ensconced in their Level-4 bubble. The truth will emerge when everyone emerges from lockdown. Suddenly my favourite cafe is shut, or my cousin’s out of a job, or Karen from the school run needs to mortgagee sale her house. Then it will be real and people will listen.
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:05am
  - Paulus
    
    I am still voting to be governed by the National Party irrespective of its leader.
    There are many very capable National Party members a number of whom is a capable experienced leader.
    
    7 1
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    April 21, 2020 11:11am
- artemisia
  
  There’s a lot of conversations shut down these days and not just about the pandemic. The trend will not go unnoticed by Joe Sixpack, who will just shut up.
  
  There is an election coming up here. President Trump figured that there are a lot of voters not feeling listened to. Worked for him.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:20am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. I know what you mean. A lot of women very fiercely on Ardern side now. I don’t know how many woman under 50 are not voting for her but not many. Simon has a huge problem getting wiggle room to show a point of difference from Labour. National largely agree with the lock down etc so its hard to make ground sniping around the edges and showing what exactly would be different. He tries to make the case that another week is dangerous. But it isn’t another week. The argument that it is only two business days is well made, and Hoskings sounded silly trying to argue that hospitality work over the weekend with Ardern, when we all know, hospitality aren’t opening. The other problem for Simon criticising the extension, is that two polls showed that a big majority of people wanted the lock down extended. I also notice David Seymour supports the government decision too. So Bridges really has little to work with here trying to be an “opposition”. I think he just needs to wait until businesses fail everywhere after the restart. The lock down is the easy bit for the government, its the rebuild that will be a nightmare.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:46am
  - brett68
    
    The fact he doesn’t understand or get that really shows how incompetent he is.
    
    5 26
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    April 21, 2020 8:59am
    - John Warren
      
      That all those women under 50 would vote for Ardern, clearly just because she’s a woman, demonstrates another kind of incompetence.
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:13am
      - brett68
        
        Not just under 50, over 50 as well.
        They vote for her because they can relate to her.
        
        I’m not saying every woman is voting Ardern, but I’d say around 70% certainly are.
        
        That’s her base combine that with the fact that most guys are pretty much split left and right now so that gives her an unassailable lead.
        
        National has to get some of that female vote back otherwise they don’t have a chance.
        
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        April 21, 2020 10:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We are not going to hear from the sensible women so don’t presume the women’s vote is in the bag.
    A nasty surprise likely awaits the COL at the next Selection.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:06am
    - bruceavon
      
      They were miles ahead with the women vote before this, from what I am seeing it must be even higher now. And of course with the young vote. A long way to go. We must hope for some sanity to occur.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:31am
      - brett68
        
        She has close to half the population voting for her already.
        As annoying as it is for the old misogynists on here and in National, women vote and their vote is worth the same as a man.
        
        Unless national can pull some of that female vote back they will get wiped out at this year’s election.
        
        Can’t see them getting the message though, they seem to be operating in this impervious bubble completely isolated to what’s going on outside of the bubble.
        
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        April 21, 2020 9:51am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Being upset about people ‘voting by gender’ is not misogyny. It’s actually the exact opposite: we want people to vote on merit.
        
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        April 21, 2020 3:46pm
  - amospicton
    
    The election will be about the economic recovery not about the management of the current crisis. Remember Churchill got chucked out after WWII and Ardern’s not exactly in his league. It’ll be easy to argue Labour made the economy worse than needed and are poorly equipped to manage the recovery (KiwiBuild anyone?). Back Peters call to defer the election to November.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:35am
  - Sacha
    
    On Facebook: Nicola Willis discussing the current situation with Steven Joyce. A couple of tiny pebbles thrown, but actually a very interesting and impartial discussion on what actions could be taken, and what the government might have to prioritise. Steven Joyce is a good man – even ‘kind’ some might say. And Nicola Willis did a good job – and is’kind’ too.
    https://www.facebook.com/NicolaWillisMP/videos/251036692703918/UzpfSTMyOTcyNTA4NzA2NTgzMzozMDM3ODE2NTM2MjU2NjYx/
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:25am
  - trout
    
    The problem here is that given the exaggerated doomsday scenarios the masses are fearful and need and get a daily dose of reassurance. Bridges made the valid point that if the groundwork re tracing etc. had been done properly an extension to level 4 (and even level 3) would not be necessary. The sheeple don’t want to hear this; ‘negativity’ raises their anxiety levels because they have to be able to trust the government to make the right decisions.
    Re ‘Stuff’ (and their begging bowl) the emotive ill informed opinion piece by Sam Sachdeva today take a swipe at Bridges for making constructive criticism and holding the Government to account. But that is not allowed.
    
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    April 21, 2020 12:32pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “Hoskings sounded silly trying to argue that hospitality work over the weekend with Ardern,”
    
    He didn’t sound silly, but his list of businesses that would work over the weekend should have been much longer. For a start, every warehouse trying to get back on its feet would be busy filling online orders.
    
    Also there might be more in the hospitality industry than you think who will be trading at L3 (and could have done so at L4 if it hadn’t been designed to kill small ‘non-essential’ businesses) plenty of cafes and restaurants want to do whatever trade they can – my fave cafe owners were busy today getting ready. So it’s not just about big takeaway joints.
    
    Taxinda sounded like a careless fool, ignorant of the real world.
    
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    April 21, 2020 3:42pm
  - Komata
    
    Bruceavon@0846
    
    But WHAT has Simon got to offer? What would / will the Nats’ do when they get back into power? This is not being mentioned, even on theur website. We don’t know what Simon has in mind, and if people have no apparent alternative, they will vote for the status quo; what they know.
    
    Would that that wasn’t the case.
    
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    April 21, 2020 4:43pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  As someone who has been married (and divorced) three times, I advise you to not continue the full scale war, especially if you are locked up together 🙂
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:07am
  - Peter Lane
    
    Peace was resumed an hour later. Took my beer to the other end of the house and took a few deep breaths.
    
    12 1
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    April 21, 2020 9:33am
    - Fletch
      
      You’re supposed to drink it, not inhale it 😉
      
      10 0
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      April 21, 2020 10:20am
  - Nickc2
    
    A slow learner Benedict? However, you do write well.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:49am
RRM

The news is wall-to-wall propaganda for the government.

Social media is an Orwellian mob of govt supporters and sycophants shouting everything else down.

Thank goodness we have DPF’s Kiwiblog, one of very VERY few shining lights in this mess!
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April 21, 2020 8:05am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. I have a lot of people on my Facebook feed from all over the place. and any criticism of the government now gets attacked. Especially of Ardern. People are fiercely defensive of her, never used to be like that.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:14am
  - LTA1955
    
    Some……
    
    3 1
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    April 21, 2020 9:33am
- DeepBlue
  
  I think the strategy to defeat Jacinda is play her at her own game but double down.
  
  She should be literally placed very, very high upon a pedestal at every opportunity. Madonna like. She wants to show herself like a president and front everything herself. But that is all she is, appealing to the mass media with her comms abilities.
  
  Make her personally responsible for the great fallout coming and she will fall with it.
  
  The third element is to elevate her way above her ministers. To always show how useless they are and how Jacinda has marginalised them (where’s Wally Clark?). Show the massive gulf between Jacinda and how the country should be run by a team of competent ministers not just a front person. (National step right up).
  
  Anyone good at Photoshop?
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Goebbels had comms ability too.
    
    4 1
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    April 21, 2020 12:59pm
mikenmildagain

Happy Grounation Day!
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April 21, 2020 8:08am
- Ed Snack
  
  Abu Ye !
  
  And Happy Grounation day to you too, mon !
  
  2 1
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  April 21, 2020 12:34pm
artemisia

Wellington City voters have voted in an inexperienced precious petal who has finally entered the real world but complains to the media she is being bullied.

A councillor disagreed with Tamatha Paul’s proposed amendment to take $8million of ratepayer money, not required due to the pandemic, and spend it on environmental and technological advancement, emissions and waste reduction, and Kaupapa Māori innovation. No agenda then.

“This won’t happen if councillors can’t work with others to get the magic eight number of votes [the majority] around the table.”It’s this kind of behaviour that undermines the public’s belief in the council, and makes us all look like idiots.”

Yep, there are idiots. Grow up Tamatha. You are not in student politics any more.

Her amendments passed anyway. Sorry ratepayers, but you voted in the muppets.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121125866/tamatha-paul-accuses-fellow-wellington-councillor-diane-calvert-of-bullying-and-petty-behaviour
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April 21, 2020 8:11am
- oldpark
  
  Not forgetting the other so called independent Councillor name Jill Day from Tawa . What a bloody embarrassment . Prior to the Council Election in 2019 she was rated the worst of all the Councillors in the term 2016 -2019 . Yet she is in charge of developing Wellington and Maori Culture. Her wages circa $120,000 per year . Beats the hell out of what she got in her previous job as a teacher. That was when Justin Lester recruited her to stand as a councillor for Wellington . Maybe that is why most decisions by the ill fated Wellington Council get vetoed out . Only because the bunch of no hopers cant get it through their thick skulls that Lester got dumped for the same type of policies that they keep holding on to . Jill Day you’re old mate and mentor Lester has left the building.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:51am
- graham
  
  “(Tamatha) Paul made the comments in a Facebook post on Sunday in which she accused fellow councillor Diane Calvert of bullying her during a recent council meeting.”
  
  Ah, so-called “social media”, the most anti-social platform ever devised.
  
  I take it Ms Paul has never heard the saying “Don’t air your dirty laundry in public” (or on Facebook).
  
  Sadly, she’s not alone. I have a close relation who uses Facebook to rip her family to shreds. It’s sickening, and I have lost much of what respect I did have for her.
  
  Ms Paul would do well to grow up, some take deep breaths, and stop using social media as her own personal diary. (“Dear diary, people are so MEEEEAAAN! Today I totes got bullied at work” … etc etc, blah blah blah)
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:09am
- John Warren
  
  What the fuck is “Kaupapa Maori innovation”?
  
  Or do I really need to ask?
  
  12 1
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  April 21, 2020 10:16am
  - PhilBest
    
    Haven’t you heard of the Maori Silicon Valley, up there in, where was it now, struggling to think….
    
    12 1
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    April 21, 2020 11:37am
Poppa

It sounds like golf will be permitted from next week but what the rules will be is yet to be worked out

I suppose you will only be able to play by yourself & not hole out and not keep score

That would not surprise me
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April 21, 2020 8:12am
- Nickc2
  
  Oh F, don’t tell me Cindy’s going to dictate changes to the ancient game of Golf FFS.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:57am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    She just found out that it’s an acronym for:
    Gentlemen
    Only
    Ladies
    Forbidden
    
    or so I’m told…
    
    4 2
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    April 21, 2020 10:15am
    - Nickc2
      
      Here we go, she will shut it down for sure!
      “Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Our Glorious Leader has just decreed that henceforth there will be no such thing as Golf in the Peoples Republic of New Zealand”. . . . and all her loyal peasants rejoiced.
      
      Who the F told her what GOLF stood for?
      
      2 1
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      April 21, 2020 11:09am
- alwyn
  
  Why shouldn’t you putt out?
  The only thing I saw was that they didn’t want you to touch the flagstick, and possibly that it be removed.
  However from Jan 1 last year they abolished the penalty for a ball hitting the flagstick if you were putting from on the green so you just leave the pin in and putt normally.
  The real kicker will be if they remove the rakes from the bunkers and nobody rakes them.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:21am
- Ed Snack
  
  Actually, probably stableford.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:35pm
- Nutta
  
  Jacinda us going to take the game up on Tuesday. I understand that the MSM are already writing the stories about her miracilous fourteen consecutive holes-in-one!
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:55pm
Pongo

Its only 2 extra business days claims Ardern which is probably true for most of the people who work from home and havent been effected but it extends hospitality and retail and gyms etc by another 5 days.
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April 21, 2020 8:15am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Anyone, anywhere, that owns a small business, knows:
  All work not done during the day, gives you the privilege of working at night and on the weekends.
  
  When you are flat out busy, you wonder when it will stop. When it stops, you wonder where the money will come from.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:09am
  - mark15
    
    wise words RWC.Unfortunately lost on the COL
    
    4 1
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    April 21, 2020 11:17am
- Ruahine
  
  It is also true for most people who live on other peoples money. Like most Labour voters.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:49pm
MT_Tinman

We still live in a democracy.

No Peter, we don’t.

We live in a typical socialist dictatorship and will do until the people rise up, take up their pitchforks, their scythes, their ropes and dispose of that dictatorship.
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April 21, 2020 8:16am
- PhilBest
  
  Actually what it is increasingly looking like is a tyranny of the majority. Not the kind identified by Schumpeter, where an insufficiently educated populace vote on the basis of superstition (see Afghanistan post “liberation”) but the kind identified by people like Lord Acton and Lord Wodehouselee, where the civilization concerned is at its decadent phase, and the herd “knowledge” might as well be pre-enlightenment superstition.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:14am
  - PhilBest
    
    I particularly mean that in relation to polling, if correct, that Kiwis “support the measures taken”.
    
    6 3
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    April 21, 2020 9:16am
- barnacle bill
  
  Away you go MTT you start it off.
  
  I think you need to start looking at Aljazeera TV , then you will see what real shit hole countries are out there.
  
  You may well appreciate what a great country we have here.
  
  But I doubt it, that’s not the way you are.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:14am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    They didn’t start out “shithole” countries, someone had to make them that way.
    Venezuela is the largest oil producing country in the region. Has been for decades, now try and buy toilet paper there.
    
    8 2
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    April 21, 2020 10:14am
- MCos
  
  I always look forward to your comments.
  Tell me.
  Are you really Tank Man, hiding out in NZ?
  
  2 1
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  April 21, 2020 9:15am
- chukar
  
  We lost any claim to being a democracy by adopting
  MMP.
  Half of this Parlament is not elected and some of those who did stand received as little 7% of the electorate vote
  Two present influential ministers ,Sage and Peters ,were not wanted by 93% of their own electorate.
  The difference between governance and management is election vs appointment.
  
  Democracy in NZ is dead
  
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  April 21, 2020 6:49pm
- Alex13
  
  The troll continues to provoke…
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:03pm
cmm

I have been trying to get a bit more information on the latest Centre of Excellence modelling, but have only had limited success so far. When I get more info I will write up more of an opinion. Hopefully tomorrow.

Thus far what I have seen is a mixed bag: much better modelling than the 80,000 deaths stuff, but still some areas to probe more thoroughly, especially why the models fail to match reality.

Modelling 101: reality is never broken. If the model fails to match reality then the model is broken.

What is concerning is that Hendy has been pushing hard in the media to extend the lockdown to achieve elimination. The bit none of the media report is that he’s pressing for 90 day of Level 4 lockdown.

Yes, 3 months at level 4!

If someone with the PM’s ear is suggesting three months of Level 4 then they need far better models than what they have presented so far.
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April 21, 2020 8:16am
- Poppa
  
  Where do they find these people?
  
  Even an idiot can see that is farcical
  
  31 1
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  April 21, 2020 8:20am
- All_on_Red
  
  Damian Grant sums it up
  “I’m an Insolvency Practitioner. On the front lines on an emerging economic catastrophe that smug entitled academics whose income is secure and whose livelihood isn’t threatened are evidently incapable to comprehend.”
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Good business opportunities await. I regret that my future fees may be coming from sorting out close downs too.
    
    It’s reasonably easy to tear a building down but 100x the work to create the same from scratch.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:11am
  - PhilBest
    
    This from the same Damien Grant essay is worthy of some of the greatest quotes in human history:
    
    “…Quality of life is a function of economic wealth; which is why refugees willingly risk a high chance of death to reach the shores of Italy and Florida. We are making the journey in reverse and it is a decision our children will come to regret…”
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:19am
- Durden
  
  Shaun Hendy is allowed media oxygen again ! Hendy needs to be hounded to SIberia along with the useless floozie Siouxie.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:39am
- Jules99
  
  I was talking to someone yesterday who I consider quite intelligent who was defending the use of models and said that the failure of the model to match reality showed what a good job we are doing reducing the numbers of deaths. People think models are science – they are not, but it’s worrying that people think they are. Models are used to sell the global warming narrative and not one of them turned out to actually look anything like reality.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:47am
  - notreadyet
    
    From whst i understand there was really nothing wrong with the model. The output ftom one set of assumptions had deaths in the teen’s. The figures that were bandied around came from a totall unrealistic set of assumptions, one that suited the scare tactics they wanted to employ
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:25am
- krazykiwi
  
  “Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful” — George Box, Statistician>
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:47am
- John Warren
  
  Hendy doesn’t have a business, or employees dependent upon him. Another ivory tower fuckwit.
  
  We’d be financially ruined by a 90 day lockdown. We might keep our house, if we were lucky.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:19am
- MH
  
  Modeling – would my collection of lego pieces help?
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:50am
rangitoto

The Daily Mail published some interesting graphs showing number of infections detected versus the timeline of Government action for both Australia and New Zealand. Given the many days delay between being infected and detection, those graphs show no evidence that the full lockdown in both countries has had any effect at all on the numbers. Just a panic measure.

NZ: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/04/20/12/27413860-8236071-image-a-10_1587381195121.jpg

AUS: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/04/20/14/27417016-8236071-image-a-4_1587387693601.jpg
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April 21, 2020 8:17am
- PhilBest
  
  Even in Aussie, where the economic damage has been nowhere near as gratuitous as our government has afflicted upon us, there is voices of dissent such as this one:
  
  https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2020/04/truth-the-ongoing-casualty-of-covid-19/
  
  “…Greg Hunt is treating us as fools. The easy solution is to shut everything down and bugger the cost. And to then justify it with alarmist talk about imaginary deaths which would have occurred if we were not blessed with such wise government…
  
  “…So please, Mr Hunt, spare us. It is bad enough to be locked inside while seeing the economy and people’s businesses and working lives going down the tube, queues at Centrelink, deserted streets, children out of school, government spending money as though it were confetti, and armed police forces bringing out their inner Stasi, without hearing your self-justifying, self-exculpatory, propaganda…”
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:22am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Remarkably, Australia had *13* new cases yesterday. Every state had fewer new cases than NZ
  
  NSW – 6
  Victoria – 1
  QLD – 0
  WA – 0
  SA – 0
  Tas – 5
  ACT – 1
  NT – 0
  
  Note how any discussions of Australia’s lockdown restrictions are now couched by the Government as being “broadly in line” with ours – as if they actually were.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:00am
  - GT Build
    
    My daughter is operations manager for a construction company in Melbourne it has been full steam ahead for them as far work is concerned but she has been just to work and home again no social activities but she and a lot of others will have jobs in the end unlike a lot in NZ
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:25am
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like Universities will need to pay back some $$$$.

Online learning is no substitute for 3 hour practical labs.

With 2months (at least) out of the usual 4 month semester, students aren’t getting value for their money.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/international-students-call-tuition-refunds-due-decrease-in-quality-online-learning
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April 21, 2020 8:21am
- cmm
  
  C’mon Maggiy we all know that the important courses can all be done online with Skype.
  
  Do you really think the Comrades knew anyone with a lab coat when they were at Uni?
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:28am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No – to my knowledge there is nobody in the Labour or Green parties with any science background, or a willingness to learn. That is why we get policies like “100 percent renewables” and “No oil and gas exploration” two policies that are environmentally damaging (both increase emissions) and economically ruinous.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:15am
    - cmm
      
      Dude. Political science is the one true science.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:44am
- artemisia
  
  NBR 24 January 2020 analysed financial statements of all 8 universities, noted large cash surpluses and 2008-2019 collective spending on land and buildings (net of disposals) $3.4 billion.
  
  Unis want more taxpayer money? Some at least have other options …
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:31am
- emmess
  
  Now, I know this was not the fault of the Chinese people but there is no way they should give refunds to citizens of China, their government should pick up the bill.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:45am
- SGA
  
  students aren’t getting value for their money.
  
  Would they also support the idea that the points value of the papers that they pass should be dropped to reflect this as well, I wonder?
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:57am
- Hollyfield
  
  Yet when AUT proposed extending their tertiary year to 20 December “in response to the coronavirus pandemic”, there was an “uproar” from students. AUT had to back down and their tertiary year has reverted to ending on 6 November.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/120858108/coronavirus-aut-does-a-uturn-on-extending-term-to-christmas-after-student-uproar?rm=a
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:01am
dog_eat_dog

Savagery from Hooten in the Harold today – the sacrosanct nature of muddling and untouchable public sector wonks is not acceptable while other Kiwis are frantically trying to save businesses or waiting to see if they’ll have a job at the end of Level 4.
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April 21, 2020 8:24am
cmm

Herald:
” Claire Trevett: PM triumphant but cautious about end of lockdown.

PM confident Covid-19 won’t flare up again but has booked five extra days for insurance.”

What! She’s confident? Anyone that is confident in anything is a fool. No good scientist would have this confidence in anything.

This overconfidence in idiots is well understood in psychology: The Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Does this sound like anyone you can think of: ” It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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April 21, 2020 8:25am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Demonstrated everyday in Kiwiblog comments. Our amateur epidemiologists would do well to read up on it, but they already know everything.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:56am
  - cmm
    
    Kiwiblog: free.
    PM’s ignorance: $250 billion
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:15am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Who’s paying you that you tolerate our daily rant, rage, scorn and frequently sensible comments. I cant listen to Ardern for 10 seconds but day after day you listen to us. Do you report back somewhere?
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:15am
    - JamesP
      
      Nobody would pay for such inferior product. There’s a fascinating mental dynamic going on. With the scorn and contempt he holds for the comments you would think a rational person would not choose to spend so much time here. Yet he persists despite continual down votes and slap downs of his arguments. I reckon he secretly views himself as the king of this comment section, in his eyes winning every exchange, and where every down vote is a badge of honour. The problem is that even if this were true (it’s not but for the sake of argument give it to him) it’s still a tragic way to waste your life.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:22am
    - GoVege
      
      No.
      Milky is providing some much needed balance to KB.
      And some of us have gotten quite fond of him over the years. 🙂 🙂
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:42am
  - John Warren
    
    It’s just as well we have your unchallengeable expertise to provide the necessary balance, milkman.
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:22am
- PhilBest
  
  Sheeesh, I am wondering whether there is one single detail in this whole crisis that St Jacinda gets right!!!
  
  Border control didn’t matter! We can eradicate a virus totally! Deaths fell immediately because of lockdown!
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:24am
- LTA1955
  
  Emperor quote going begging here..
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:36am
artemisia

Early childhood centres are to open next week. Dr Bloomfield says it is sufficiently safe to open with contact rules in place.

Parents are going to be lining up so they can go back to work. The sector wants to stay closed and produce what they say is evidence that it is not safe. More like anecdata.

This morning on the wireless (NewstalkZB) a rep from the ECE industry said so, and tellingly finished the interview by saying that ECEs only get funding from 2 sources – the taxpayer and parent fees. If the fees drop the centres will run at a loss unless the government provides more cash.

It’s about money then?
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April 21, 2020 8:25am
Maggy Wassilieff

The PM won’t admit why the Lockdown has been extended:

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern told Morning Report the extension was not due to contact tracing issues, rather balancing the increased chance of eradicating the disease with the economic impact.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018743435/coronavirus-contact-tracing-not-the-reason-for-lockdown-extension-ardern
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April 21, 2020 8:30am
- Ruawai
  
  And she said NZ is different to Australia because we have urbanised Maori/Pacifica people and we had a lot of travelers returning from overseas. Australia is very urbanised, Australia would have also had a lot of returning travelers and so far not a huge number of Maori and Pacifica have CV19.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:43am
  - Prisoner of Comrade Jacinda
    
    … [Del – Mod.] Oh the humanity!
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:09am
  - PhilBest
    
    Actually we have heavily SUB-urbanized minorities with the crucial multi-generational living arrangements. That is a crucial difference between them and the decimated elderly poor in NYC and “old Europe”. Are the globetrotting and vibrant-urbanista class busily infecting Otara and Porirua East?
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:27am
- cmm
  
  Maggy, I think it is to be seen to be doing what the Expert Hendy has been suggesting.
  
  Hendy has said his models show the need to extend the lockdown to 90 days.
  
  The 90 days bit seems to have been dropped by the media filtering.
  
  So She extends it by 5 days which is at least doing something, right?
  
  Even if 5 days is not exactly quite precisely the same as 62 days, at least she’s doing something to be seen to be doing the right thing.
  
  That’s what this all is. Theatre. Being seen to be doing things to help #CinD4UN.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:46am
  - Prisoner of Comrade Jacinda
    
    I think it’s a lot easier if we all just lockdown Hendy.
    
    12 1
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    April 21, 2020 9:09am
- Tricati
  
  And when she is questioned on anything economic, her practiced response is to say ‘ better health outcomes means we get back our economy quicker’ – She is yet to explain how, when we have 10,000 a day applying for unemployment benefit.
  Why do we not have an economics/finance reporter asking questions at the daily stand-up. Just political editors/reporters and we are mean’t to believe this is not Political. I’m calling BS on that.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:07am
  - backster
    
    Fran O’Sullivan stated last night on DuPlesis show that Business and Economic Reporters were excluded from the standup. No questions were permitted from them.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:33am
    - Tricati
      
      Thanks backster – That explains the framing of the stand-up. Its just political posturing at the countries expense.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:42am
  - cmm
    
    ” better health outcomes means we get back our economy quicker ”
    
    That’s up there with “if you don’t eat your veges you won’t get any pudding”.
    
    She forgets the negative health outcomes being caused by shutting down hospitals so that cancer, heart and diabetes etc patients are not getting proper testing.
    
    Every day longer in Level 4 means a thousand more people missing out on important tests and check ups. That’s going to kill far more people than CV19.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:50am
- Papalazarou
  
  She couldn’t be honest if her life depended on it
  
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  April 22, 2020 11:17am
G152

You’d imagine that, if this was such an end of life, civilisation and the friendly cuppa that super markets would stock masks…
And if you go into a bank do you have to remove said mask ?????
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April 21, 2020 8:31am
brett68

Simon Bridges has to be one of the most tone-deaf politicians ever, he has absolutely no ability to read a room and adjust his message.

I had a look at his Facebook feed last night and he got utterly destroyed, not just by left-wingers but by people who are obviously national voters.

His name and brand are worth less than oil currently and we’re less than six months out from one of the most important elections in NZ history.

Said it last night, will say it again, Judith Collins or National may as well not bother turning up.
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April 21, 2020 8:31am
- fisho
  
  Obviously National voters. How do you determine that? Because they said they were. Yeah right.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:58am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Didn’t you expect anyone to actually look?
  ALL commenters are pretty much the usual Labour wonks we see on here, like you.
  No comment on the substance of his comment, just find any angle to attack him from.
  In order to deflect criticism from the disaster this govt. has been, from the beginning, not just of covid19, but their whole term in office.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:04am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I agree brett68. When the whole world is praising Cindy, Bridges is just making an arse of himself trying to swim against the tide.
  I never thought I’d say this but it’s time for the Nats to make the big decision. He us unelectable.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:13am
  - barnacle bill
    
    @CM
    You are correct Captain.
    
    But whom would you choose to take over ?
    
    Who ever it would be would know he or she would be on a hiding to nothing in the current situation, so would only be a short term caretaker leader.
    
    I don’t see to many putting their name forward at the moment.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:25am
  - brett68
    
    Yep, winning the election is going to be a hard slog for National as it is.
    
    Having Simon Bridges as leader makes that task impossible, surely the National party and MPs can see that?
    
    They can’t all be that blind and oblivious?
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:27am
    - DeepBlue
      
      You are assuming someone wants to step up for the job. And now is the best time to do so.
      
      A random pick would be Nicola Willis to go head to head with Jacinda. Nicola is quite possibly out of a job in September so she’d fight for her life.
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:12am
      - artemisia
        
        Nicola Willis has a lot going for her, and I hear is well thought of in the Party. Stable family, young children, beltway experience, private sector experience.
        
        Not dissimilar to Simon Bridges, peas in a pod.
        
        As for Simon’s leadership – there is more than one way to lead, and John Key’s CEO plus team style worked well. Tough time to be opposition leader right now, a delicate balance.
        
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        April 21, 2020 1:28pm
      - brett68
        
        John Keys CEO approach was shite and one of the main reasons we’re in this predicament.
        
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        April 21, 2020 5:31pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      A week is a long time in politics…heard that before?
      Just wait for 5 months.
      5 months of this covid19 shagging about…people will vote National
      5 months of pointing out all their failing befoe covid19…people will vote National
      5 months of this govt. tripping over themselves…people will vote National
      5 months of pointing out this govt.s corruption (votes for prisons, for which submissions close before lock down ends, denying people a say)…people will vote National
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:21am
- projectman
  
  Which party do you vote for Brett68?
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:25am
  - brett68
    
    Always voted National.
    Unless things change drastically in National, I’m
    either voting ACT this year or not voting at all.
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:59am
- John Warren
  
  I have at various times been alternately impressed and disappointed by Simon.
  
  However regardless of his sometimes very impressive performances, the fact remains that we live in an age of personality politics, exemplified by the rise of Cindy, and Simon lacks the necessary personality to thrive in such an environment. He simply isn’t likeable enough. He’s a bit oily. He seems more suited to the car sales yard than the PM’s office, and he provides Labour with their best weapon going into the election. This is why I am not at all confident about September’s outcome.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:30am
- bruceavon
  
  Well I was willingly to give Simon a go when he was picked. Then the leak fiasco which turned into the JLR mess. Then his constant barking at passing cars thing. But I think he has made a profile for himself. And I don’t know about any of the other options. Who would want it? I love Judith but she is polarising and somehow national have to get some votes from people under 55. Maybe now is her only chance. The trouble with Bridges is when he complains, which is the job of opposition, it sounds like whining. Judith at least has a bit of charm. But I don’t know if anyone else would want it. Who wants to take over a party on 30%?
  I never understood why Stephen Joyce was never up for the leadership. He seemed perfect to me.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:56am
  - brett68
    
    Judith is the only National MP with media presence.
    
    They love her on Three and she’s actually well-liked and respected by many within the media.
    
    Bridges is universally disliked across all media, he will never get any traction, they just don’t like who he is and what he stands for.
    
    You cannot succeed as a politician in that media environment.
    
    If Fox hadn’t championed Trump he wouldn’t have never been elected, you don’t have to be liked by all media, but you have to be liked by some.
    
    Bridges doesn’t even have that.
    
    One other point, I keep hearing about Collins being polarizing, Bridges has to be the most polarizing politician ever, the one massive advantage Collins has is that she can pull some of that female vote back across to National.
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:07am
    - Jack5
      
      Ultimately various news media survive on the public’s opinion of them.
      
      Even State TV and State radio in the long term depend on voters’ views to assure them of taxpayer support.
      
      There’s a lot to play out yet in the Wuhan flu saga. The worst, the economic carnage, is yet to come. Let’s see how Bridges, National, and ACT fare in that.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:39am
    - PhilBest
      
      I always said Jenny Shipley would have done better in the 2002 election than poor old Bill did. That was entirely a matter of the wimmens vote swinging in behind Hulun and against the father of multiple kids by a publicly invisible wife. This last time round, Mary English was highly visible and did a dam good job of it, completely reversing the earlier outcome – but for that poison dwarf Winston.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:42am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      And what would happen if Judith Collins was elected leader? The media would turn on her in a heartbeat, and all her past “sins” like her association with Cameron Slater, Oravida and even the rupture of the Marsden Point oil pipeline would be relitigated endlessly.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:50am
      - brett68
        
        Utter nonsense, the past “sins” were a storm in a teacup.
        
        No one knows who Cameron Slater is, he’s a yesterday’s man, btw she was cleared of any wrongdoing, it was all Slater trying to big-note if I remember correctly.
        
        What the fuck as the Marsden point pipeline got to do with Judith Collins?
        
        Or are saying because her husband used to be an Oravida director it’s somehow her fault?
        
        The only reason you’re hostile to Collins is that she’s a woman and isn’t a Christain, people like you are the reason National is going to get decimated at this years election
        
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        April 21, 2020 12:05pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        You’re right Brett, they were. But that won’t stop the media using them against Collins to undermine her.
        
        I’ve met Judith Collins on a number of occasions, and like her forthrightness. Whether or not she is a Christian is completely irrelevant, as is her gender. I simply believe that she is not the right person to lead National at the moment.
        
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        April 21, 2020 12:59pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Brett68- What is your evidence that Ms Collins “can pull some of that female vote back across to National”? I can’t see that happening -massively.
      I believe that for the msm and the socialist twitterarty, Ms Collins would deliberately be portrayed as a Trump figure and be torn to shreds.
      I don’t have much opinion about her as a person or politician – she may be very capable – but that is what we have in politics today – deserved or not.
      Labour picked Ms Ardern out of back bench obscurity and the msm, assisted by the celebrity
      “Culture” , made her into a worldwide superstar.
      It won’t happen again.
      
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      April 21, 2020 1:26pm
      - brett68
        
        Umm a vagina?
        
        You seem to be stuck in 2014, old fella.
        Judith Collins has her own slot on TV3, they’d love to champion her.
        
        If you ever read her twitter feed you’d know that she gets far more positive comments then negative, even from people like Lizzie Marvelly
        
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        April 21, 2020 2:30pm
oldpark

Not so long ago in NZ . When the Peters selected woman from small town Morrinsville named ms/Ardern was given the job of NZs PM .
Many people if they were interested at all would have noticed how and where ms/Ardern spent her time . Yes in Kindergartens , Pre-school centres and even Main stream schools . Enjoying the photo opportunities that came her way .
Imagine yesterday when she was answering questions Ad Nauseum from media friendly sycophants .One question was, what was her take on the opening of Pre-Schools being user friendly .
Well with that question her face virtually changed to the colour of bad shit . That was one question maybe too far for her ,that might even make her well handled “halo” slip .
She turned to her offsider Mr Goody Two Shoes Ashley Bloomfield to answer. Both Ardern and Bloomfield already knew that they had received a letter from the Pre-School association asking for the opening to be deferred . The reasons in the letter was . “Three wee babies” had recently been diagonised with the Coronavirus.I kid you not .
No wonder she turned the colour of bad shit. Someone would surely have asked her . Would she expose her much vaunted Two year old child to a Pre-School. Maybe the Jury is still out on that one, Or better still the Jury has not been sworn in yet .Only some talk back shows might get some answers. Maybe not as the type of agony aunt and agony uncles on Radio Talkback who worship at the altar of the Peters selection of Ardern and cabal to run NZ is nauseating.
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April 21, 2020 8:33am
- kowtow
  
  I’ll always recall her grinning hugely “this one’s on me” at some tertiary institute , to the adoring assembled , a place she’d fell very comfortable in …..
  
  But no critique of who it was on , as it’s never their own money they’re spending , it’s the taxpayer who always foots the bill.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:14am
  - chukar
    
    Who supported the innocent?
    NZ s legal gun owners
    
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    April 21, 2020 7:13pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I have been surprised at the vehemence of demands coming from teachers and pre school “care providers “ that schools and centres do not reopen – even with the support of health-related measures.
  Wasn’t that long ago that we were being told about the shocking levels of abuse many, many children were facing in their own homes.
  Affected by neglect, violence, no food, damaged by drug and alcohol addicted parents, and so on.
  Tax payer funds increasingly being forwarded to vital school-run programmes for breakfasts, lunches.
  Yes, too many children are apparently trapped in dreadful home environments with going to school their only respite and access to food for the day.
  Yet it seems quite a lot of educators are now pushing for increased “home schooling” with their only contact with children is via a TV screen.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:19am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Teachers still get paid, children or not.
    
    I don’t blame them for being scared, but if they don’t want to teach and the science says it is safe to do so then they shouldn’t be paid.
    
    Resign or go on strike. That would be a big problem for Labour.
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:16am
    - GT Build
      
      Yes they preach that the science is settled on another subject but don’t want to believe this science
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:33am
    - Nickc2
      
      I would like to see that!
      
      1 1
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      April 21, 2020 11:03am
RW Capitalist

Watched Paul Henry, one take away.
The head of the Hospitality…industry
“…there was a 30% reduction n the hospitality industry BEFORE the Covid 19 lock down…)
They expect (further?) 40% reduction due to Covid 19.
Considering “hospitality” is a very labour intensive industry, 10% unemployment may be a wildly optimistic prediction.
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April 21, 2020 8:36am
- RW Capitalist
  
  and of the industries that service the hospitality industries?
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:41am
- emmess
  
  Saw a bit of that show
  
  Shit, it was boring
  Michael Hill interview about his house burning down in the 70s. Yawn
  Went back to YouTube after two or three minutes
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:53am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    When you take piss, do you miss the pot too?
    As you have missed the point here?
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:35am
  - Jack5
    
    Agree on Paul Henry show.
    
    ?Michael Hill has told the story about his house burning down for years. The bit I don’t remember is him going into the burning building to get his violin and Mrs Hill’s jewellery.
    
    Hill looks and sounds frail, and the story, is well, mature.
    
    Henry, noting that Hill is in the middle of the economic collapse of Queenstown, could have asked how the coming dive in property prices will affect the value of Hill’s golf course. In effect, it’s a land bank.
    
    And what would have been a bit of old-style Henry pepper: “(Sir) Michael, you’re a lifelong violinist – do you feel any affinity with Nero sawing away on his fiddle as the smoke rose over Rome?”
    
    Hill’s views on the repeatedly forecast coming boom in online retailing would have been interesting. A TV shopping channel already flogs jewellery bits worth up to $3000 or more. How will the Hill chain and other high value retailers shoulder into this market?
    
    As for bringing on Mr Multiculturism, Paul Spoonley, perhaps Henry could have paralleled Massey’s blocking of free speech with the Covid-19 freedom curtailment.
    
    No kudos to Henry for letting Spoonley from Free Speech Massey praise us all for being sheep-like obedient in the Wuhan-flu lockdown regime … Baa!
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:06am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Hill’s point, that you seem to have missed,is he started from NOTHING, similar to where many will be starting.
      It was meat to show you, that if he can do it, you can.
      
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      April 21, 2020 2:24pm
- DeepBlue
  
  We had forgotten business was going pear shaped before COVID, but the graphs don’t lie. Labour has just managed to mask their anti-business approach with a megatron bomb.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:19am
Simon

Attention Comrades!

The Ardern government has set up a 0800 hotline to report anyone you see outside enjoying themselves.

Please phone 0800 stasi

Unite together Comrades! Let’s do this.
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April 21, 2020 8:39am
- igm
  
  This is typical of a left-wing communist. Narking is the domain of lefties, in the main, being too gutless to confront anyone face to face on an issue.
  Could not imagine anything so demeaning as ringing up and topping off someone for no adhering to this unelected unwanted harridan’s orders.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:42am
RW Capitalist

I see on the AM show they are floating the idea (mentioned on this blog), that some advisor or other,
Is suggesting
40% tax on incomes over $70000 etc
Has anyone told him, the average wage before lock down, was over $60000?
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April 21, 2020 8:39am
- cmm
  
  $60k was before the lockdown.
  
  After it will be far less.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:50am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    But maybe not, considering it will be the lower paid, who are laid off.
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:51am
    - cmm
      
      Good point there.
      
      Also likely less new job openings for younger/less skilled people coming into the job market.
      
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      April 21, 2020 9:18am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Wife pointed out…it’s hard now for over 50’s to get a job. Imagine how hard it’s gonna be.
        
        11 2
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        April 21, 2020 9:31am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Also, something he hasn’t thought of
  with take home pay being much less, people are therefore poorer, wage demands and strikes higher in number.
  Inflation
  1950’s here we come. (won’t the unions be thrilled)
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:54am
Durden

So from Monday we will be at Level 4 — but with childcare if you need it, and some types of work done at your own responsibility.

The risk is again a re-seeding and creation of clusters that get away on us leading to Level 4 again. This will be due to behaviour that is wanton (nephs, tangis, and gang parties), naive (lonely grandparents, do-gooders, bullet-proof young ) or malicious (Gaia nuts, racist nuts, faithful idiots nuts seeking communion or offering Friday prayers).

This is most likely happen via exceptions to entry quarantine rules (airline/airport crew, VIPs), frontline workers (health, police, Public transport) distribution chains, customer facing businesses, and re-infection of the known recovered or unknown mild/asymptomatic cases.

As Malaghan Institute’s Prof Graham Le Gros said yesterday, the virus always had a 2-3 day head start on contact tracers. All it needs to re-explode exponentially is a few super-spreaders around the country, or a un-identified long term source like an infected artesian spring water fountain or a busy unclean public toilet. Like the one AirNZ staff member who created the huge bluff cluster. Or whatever happened at the SI meat conference.

If the government is trusting the public to do the right thing, then the government MUST be putting out more unvarnished information we know about such situations so public can read, understand and take the correct action ?

1. Why was the Bluff cluster so virulent ? Due to infectee or infected or practices
2. Was there any link between Marist cluster and the stag do.
3. Why were there no clusters arising from WOMAD and the Tool events.
4. What did happen with Boomrock, St Patrick’s party, Las Vegas tripper clusters.
5. How did each of the rest homes get infected.

Information is key. Don’t assume we are stupid and that Mother Jas or pundit Ash have to make up stores to keep us from getting scared.

Tell us how you do contact tracing so we can keep appropriate info. Tell us what other monitoring you are doing (sentinel testing, sewerage testing) and where we can see results so people affected can be more careful.

Give us the likely plan for the end scenario for going down each level so we have some hope i.e. tell us what are your plans for procuring vaccines (Oxford Uni), or prophylactic treatments (Chloroquine, blood plasma extract, Remdesivir etc) as and when they occur.

Above all, why is the Government not recommending use of masks when the Maths and experience in Asia and Eastern Europe (Czechia and Slovakia) ? Surely better advice than cough or sneeze into your elbow !
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April 21, 2020 8:39am
- PhilBest
  
  We should also be asking why the Bluff Restaurant STAFF didn’t get infected. Also, what is the difference between the “sites” that become clusters, and the hundreds of other sites where infected people were going in the early days of “spread”, without an outbreak of infections?
  
  I say it is self-evident that HEVAC conditions at the site are critical. Viruses own survival depends on quite a narrow range of environmental conditions. I reckon every time the Bluff restaurant staff walked out of the main dining room, any viruses they’d picked up died before causing infection.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:34am
  - PhilBest
    
    The corollary to this observation is that epicentres like NYC, Milan, Barcelona etc have every second bar, restaurant, and housing block with the ideal conditions for viral spread. NZ doesn’t, at least partly thanks to our climate and the time of year.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:36am
  - James Stephenson
    
    We should also be asking why the Bluff Restaurant STAFF didn’t get infected
    
    I’d start with the fact that the wedding guests were likely pissed and dancing with each other.
    
    The worst affected European countries (Italy, Spain, France, Belgium) are all places where people typically greet each other with cheek-kisses whereas we typically do synchronised eyebrow and chin raises…
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:14am
    - mark15
      
      unless you’re on TV
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:56am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I think the infection may have happened on the bus back to Invercargill after the reception or at the private Sunday get together. Both these would have much more close contact with guard down when everyone cheered the couple and said goodbye.
    
    The spreader may not have been as infections on the Saturday and the staff would be frantically hand washing and not hugging/dancing etc.
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:24am
    - PhilBest
      
      Good points, thanks guys
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:45am
Loddenthinks

Further to the doom and gloom mass hysteria about Japan, breathlessly reported today as being on the brink of “the collapse of medicine”.

Japan has some characteristics that make it unique in many ways: a very large ageing population, significantly older than most countries (median age 47.7 years), but very healthy overall and requiring less medical care than other countries.

The 2018 population was over 126 million, with a death rate of 9.9/1,000. In other words, every year more than 1.2 million people die (1,239,164 based on 2018 population). That’s more than 100,000 every month, or 3,395 every. single. day.

To date there have been around 350 deaths attributed to COVID-19. That’s about 2 and a half hours worth of deaths in normal times. Collapse of medicine? Yeah, nah.
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April 21, 2020 8:41am
RW Capitalist

Oil futures -$37 a barrel….how does that work?
We should be taking that deal (after the destruction of our exploration industry), the Saudi’s pay us to take the stuff.
Start building storage now.
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April 21, 2020 8:45am
- cmm
  
  KiwiOil: Twit on the case?
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:58am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Wouldn’t he have to be?
    Phillis Twitford.
    
    8 1
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    April 21, 2020 9:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  We buy, they pay us, dump it and enjoy.
  
  3 2
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  April 21, 2020 9:19am
  - Colville
    
    Pump it into the ground 🙂
    
    1 1
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    April 21, 2020 9:56am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Drill for it latter, don’t have to explore, just make a note of where you hid it.
      
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      April 21, 2020 10:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It means the petrol station will pay you to fill your car up
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:29am
I remember when

How to Address Climate Change
Get an envelope
Write “Climate Change” on front
Place stamp in top right hand corner
Shove thru slot in mail box
(older members will remember how this works)
See if the mailman can find it.
Mailmen are out in all sorts of weather so there will have seen it
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April 21, 2020 8:48am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Will be dealt with in much the same manner as letters to Santa Clause and possibly sent to the same address as other fantasies.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:08am
RW Capitalist

Where is news about the 19 shot dead in Nova Scotia Canada?
or does it only count if it’s in the USA.
Q: Canada’s gun laws are much stricter than the USA’s, so how’d this happen?
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April 21, 2020 8:50am
stewmar

Does anyone know who Kokila Patel is?
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April 21, 2020 8:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If you read the “About” page for Kiwiblog, you would see she is the sub-editor of KB.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:19am
surfing

Wellington council takes 17 years to sort out hoarders dumping waste on their property.

What is wrong with wellington council (and others will be the same)?

17 years to finally take these cretins to court?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/121128664/owners-ordered-to-move-17-years-of-rubbish-from-shambolic-central-wellington-property
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April 21, 2020 8:54am
- GoVege
  
  I hope you readers of this interesting article paid a buck or two for the privilege.
  Or should journalists knock themselves out investigating and writing up stories for nothing?
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:27am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maybe “journalists” should learn how to tell the whole story and understand that ardern is not the messiah.
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:59am
- GoVege
  
  Bloody neat freaks!
  It mainly looks like corrugated iron and a few other building materials.
  (I love corrugated iron!)
  I had a neighbour who was continually hassled by the council because his property was a bit like this.
  Even his wife used it as an excuse to leave him.
  He was the sweetest gentlest guy you could ever meet.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:37am
I remember when

The government of we were first to
will not be able to say we were first to come out of lock down.
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April 21, 2020 8:57am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The government of we were first to
  Destroy our oil exploration
  Destroy our economy (before covid19)
  Take away our freedom of association
  Have corrupt meeting with senior civil servants
  Financially gerrymander (or attempt to) an election via PGF, computers for kids etc
  etc etc
  None of it good for NZ, only SLG (the one that said she didn’t want the job, but is now desperate to hang onto it) and Labour.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:14am
I remember when

About time newspapers started to produce figures showing covid-19 deaths by age group.
Let’s see how easy it would be to keep the economy working.
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April 21, 2020 9:02am
- Kabull
  
  And ethnicity – we were told repeatedly that Maori were at greater risk than anyone else. But I’m not seeing any evidence that this is so. Last figures I saw said Asians were suffering more.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    I suspect there is a lot of spatial segregation between NZ’s Asian communities and “vibrant urban” communities with high exposure to the globetrotting and holidaying class – and the Maori and Pasifika communities. If there was anything I’d grant the Left now, it is that there is now an evident upside to the State creation of remote-location low-decile suburbs that occurred in the 1960’s, 70’s and 80’s.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:43am
JibberJabber

Truth on Twitter ?
https://twitter.com/SirajAHashmi/status/1252267684118528005
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April 21, 2020 9:11am
cmm

Apparently asymptomatic cases are a nightmare, but no cases found in NZ.

Virus-knowledgeable people please correct me, but aren’t asymptomatic cases hard to find with antigen testing? From my limited understanding antigen testing only tests positive while your body is reacting to the virus and thus you’d more likely be symptomatic.

“At the daily briefing on Sunday, director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield said the wider community testing was done to help confirm there was no underlying community transmission of Covid-19.”

Ummm, does doing a few non-random tests in PackNSave carparks really show that? We know that infections are not random through the population so why should people treat them that way?

I’m not sure why they are so worried about asymptomatic infections. This surely boosts the chance of herd immunity – something they seem hell-bent on avoiding.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121122502/asymptomatic-covid19-cases-ring-alarm-bells-overseas-but-is-it-a-problem-in-new-zealand
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April 21, 2020 9:12am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “Apparently asymptomatic cases are a nightmare..”
  will be the excuse they use to justify “contact tracing”.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:16am
- Prisoner of Comrade Jacinda
  
  Herd immunity means Jacinda needs a new crisis to polish her golden crown.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:22am
- PhilBest
  
  Early “population subset” testing for infection itself, is the best indicator of all – and this was done in a few isolated instances around the world. The findings are completely consistent with the later antibodies-based studies. The State’s “experts” almost everywhere, not just NZ, know all this, and they choose to ignore it. There is hardly a better illustration of the phenomenon of “selection of experts” where State, QUANGO or transnational organisation employment is concerned. The best people never make it past the gatekeepers.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:49am
  - cmm
    
    Population subset testing sounds far more sane than doing testing in three or 4 PackNSave carparks and calling that random testing.
    
    Population subsets are also finding their way into modelling too (even our Centre For Excellence is considering doing this). It makes sense because straightforward population modelling does not match reality.
    
    For example we have seen how frail care homes are hit hard, while other population slices are teflon coated. A single extremely crude.
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:31am
    - PhilBest
      
      The testing I refer to has to be done early so it catches people before they recover. Otherwise you never have a chance to pick up the likely true spread. and the only tool you have is antibodies tests. The early tests I refer to were done in January, on various subsets in Wuhan, Northern Italy, and cruise ship passengers.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:48am
- Ed Snack
  
  Not quite sure but I think that asymptomatic cases will have antibodies to show that their immune systems are suppressing the virus. The antibodies also persist and are the basis for continuing immunity, so are usually a good way to determine what percentage of a population has harboured the virus, symptomatically or otherwise.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:47pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Actually want to add that talking of “herd immunity” with respect to normal infectious diseases is almost certainly incorrect. You don’t get herd immunity in the normal course of events, only with intervention like vaccination. Natural infections normally spread such that there is a continued level of infection, rather like colds or the flu (where herd immunity is very hard to attain because of viral mutations).
    
    So we can’t achieve “herd immunity” through letting CV spread “naturally”, we would instead get a chronic if somewhat lower level of infection.
    
    Example is measles pre-vaccination. Measles spreads extremely well (R1 of 15-20 compared to SARS-Cov2 of around 2-3) yet pre vaccination measles was always present and tended to occur in waves that spread and attenuated naturally. As there were plenty of other causes of death in children is wasn’t particularly remarked upon, but measles killed significant numbers of children in places where it existed basically forever. And despite the fast spread, humans did not develop sufficient “herd immunity” to stop it, ever.
    
    SARS-Cov2 would be the same, if we just “let it rip” we would have a chronic level of the virus in our population, killing the vulnerable, and we won’t get rid of it until we have a vaccine and reach that “herd immunity” figure of 95+% immunity.
    
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    April 21, 2020 12:56pm
  - cmm
    
    Correct, but antibody testing is banned in NZ.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:32pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Don’t think it is banned as such, just not conducted – probably because they don’t have the ability to do them yet.
      
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      April 21, 2020 2:02pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Nope. Generally there seems to be some level of dissatisfaction with the performance of the available kits. However, if you want to buy a kit, they are USD99 for 5 sticks from haierthermometer.com. Prick and stick like a blood sugar test. Coloured bands in a window like a pregnancy test. Postage to NZ is free.
      
      Here’s the rub with current antibody tests. Specificity is not as good as one would like. So you can be tested and turn up a positive for the “I am recovered an therefore immune” antibody. Great – back to work then.
      
      But there is a small chance (I have seen 3-5% quoted) that this is a false positive because you had a similar corona antibody. From a “general stats” point of view, this is OK. From a “can I go back to work now?” perspective it ain’t.
      
      Bugger.
      
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      April 21, 2020 2:19pm
      - cmm
        
        Thank you for that correction, it appears they are looking at banning them.
        
        In the context of statistical population testing, tests with errors are fine because those can be corrected for.
        
        As far as diagnostic testing goes (ie. if a specific person has an antibody), there is no real problem with false positives or negatives either. The medical community have been dealing with that for years.
        
        For example, the PSA test (prostate) returns huge numbers of false positives. Only about 25% of PSA positives return positive biopsy results. ie. 75% false positive, yet the PSA test is still used.
        
        Same with many other tests.
        
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        April 21, 2020 2:37pm
Yvette

Winston – is there anything to be learnt from such an expenditure of taxpayer funds?
Journalists estimated Peters had to return approximately $18,000, which amount Peters vehemently denied was correct – he rubbished media saying the real repayment was a markedly different amount, in fact much lower, but… according to his lawyer Brian Henry … was $17,936.43. He had been overpaid because the relationship status box on his application form had been left blank. [1]

To my recollection this returned amount was the only “personal detail” in the whole matter that Winston Peters, in multiple interviews, did not himself willingly volunteer to media. All else that could be considered as “personal details”, he himself offered in answers or voluntarily confirmed.
I challenge anyone to name any other “personal private” detail, that Winston did not confirm, by his choice, to become a “public” detail. However, the very initial leak – the fact that there had been an irregularity in payments at all – has not been determined.

When first questioned about the matter, Winston could have said “Yes, there has been a mistake, but I have rectified that in under 24 hours, so the matter is ‘done and dusted’ and I have a letter commending me for my prompt co-operation in this matter, which is private – and therefore I will make no further comment.” But he did.

Winston’s response on being notified of the mistake – he dropped business in Wellington an flew to Auckland to remedy the matter in less than 24 hours – was exemplary, particularly in comparison to the “amoral mess” Metiria Turei had just earlier confessed to.

That is where Mr Soper’s court ‘evidence’, an opinion, that the information was deliberately leaked as an attempt by Mr Peters’ political opponents to damage his credibility, is wrong. How could doing the right thing, in an exemplary response, be damaging.
It was initially to Winston’s advantage that voters knew of his experience and markedly different attitude to that of Turei, and it was assumably not something National would drop on the media the weekend of National’s own annual conference.

So the logic of the leak was never explained, and could arguably have been someone believing it was to Winston’s advantage that it become known. Perhaps someone who thought Metiria had robbed Winston of Election oxygen, as she and other circumstances appeared to have done. That some could express the view the leak was by or through Winston himself suggests the actual information basically was not damaging.

Any supposed damage to Winston’s reputation may have been consequent to his later reactions – his leaker which-hunt, his legal action on the eve of the Election, and behaviour since. If so, all of that was self inflicted damage.
• Winston Peters’ shifting story over pension overpayment
• Where is the openness and transparency, Winston Peters?

One wonders too what a psychologist would make of some aspects of this case.
Asked by media about achieving the role of Acting Prime Minister while Ardern gave birth to her daughter, Winston nonchalantly indicated it was just another day at the office.
But of a small mistake with the IRD –
“This is humbug. It’s tawdry. It’s dirty. It’s filthy, and they should not succeed on that”, Mr Peters said.
“I’ll find out every last thing.”
Mr Peters claims the leaks go all the way to the Prime Minister. “You’ve got a political party that’s been deeply exposed now. That’s all the way to the Prime Minister. Don’t tell me Paula Bennett knew and the Prime Minister didn’t know,” Mr Peters said. “It’s underhand, and it’s dirty politics. It’s probably, in my view, illegal. Utterly, utterly wrong and apparently they knew even before I knew.” [2]

For a relatively small mistake immediately put right, those who warned Ministers are shown 968 days later that a “done and dusted” matter could certainly still turn to custard and go tits up. No surprise?

I do not really understand soccer, other than the expression “own goal”.

[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284147
[2] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/anne-tolley-given-heads-up-over-winston-peters-pension-overpayment.html
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April 21, 2020 9:18am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So, we have a Deputy Prime Minister who is incapable of filling in a simple form.
  
  And what sort of person fails to acknowledge that they are in a long-term partnership?
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:28am
  - Tall Man
    
    Let me rephrase that for you Maggy.
    
    “We have a simple deputy prime minister who is incapable of filling in a form.”
    
    “And what sort of person fails to acknowledge that they are in a long-term partnership?”
    
    One that is still looking ……
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:52am
  - stigie
    
    Barely Sober’s credibility is shot to hell, telling the media it was National that leaked the details even though couldn’t name any person ?
    For my 2 cents worth, Peters desperate to be noticed at the time leaked his own details to his drinking buddy Sober.
    Can anyone dispute that..?
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:03am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Sorry, accidentally reported!
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:23pm
- Nickc2
  
  Who appointed the trial judge? Was it the same body who did favours for the Labour Party with regard to their Labour Induction Camp?
  Will the Speaker of the House declare Winston must pay his own court costs? I believe if he doesn’t, the response to my question will be obvious. OH, I can hear the keyboards being pounded already by Cindy’s trolls on this blog.
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:32am
JibberJabber

The Virgin Group chief has warned the airline could go bust without the bailout from public funds, saying in an open letter that Virgin Atlantic needs support in ‘the face of severe uncertainty surrounding travel’.

Maybe the multi-billionaire Branson that lives on a private island Tax haven should get a taste of what he prescribes for others?

“The government shouldn’t step in to bail them (British Airways) out. They should let them go bust. And the likes of Virgin Atlantic should be able to step into their shoes, take over their slots & offer a much more cost effective, better airline”
— Richard Branson 2009
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April 21, 2020 9:21am
- Jules99
  
  Virgin Australia have their hand out as well. Nope.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:00am
- Swifty
  
  Heh heh.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:26am
RW Capitalist

Some perspective
https://www.unicef.org/media/files/MALARIAFACTSHEETAFRICA.pdf
“Over one million people die from malaria each year, mostly children under five years of age, with 90 per cent of malaria cases occurring in Sub-Saharan Africa. An estimated 300-600 million people suffer from malaria each year. More than 40 percent of the world’s population lives in malaria-risk areas.”
Or are they all (leaders of this world) suggesting that it’s OK for Africans to die, but not the rest of us?
Check the numbers…300 MILLION suffer from it it.
Over 1 million DIE.
ALSO…..we actually have drugs to prevent this.
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April 21, 2020 9:27am
- Prisoner of Comrade Jacinda
  
  Another angle on this. We are at war with a virus. Apparently.
  
  Last time there were wars the older generation sent the younger generation off to die if need be. In WWII the number of Kiwis who died amounted to about 12,000. For WWI the total was 16,000.
  
  The oldest generation may have to die in this war. Very sad. But it is for the long term good of the country.
  
  Harden up granny!
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:45am
  - old skool reactionary
    
    Its not called the Boomer Remover for nothing.
    
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    April 21, 2020 9:55am
- PhilBest
  
  Eco-fascists banning DDT are responsible for a lot of this.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:50am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Wrong, by the time DDT was effectively banned most malarial mosquito populations had developed significant resistance to the chemical, and its overuse in agriculture had done widespread damage to ecosystems.
    
    A really good example is Sri Lanka – in the 1950’s the government instituted a serious program to reduce or even eliminate malaria on the island. Malaria was identified as their number one public health issue.
    
    So they setup a special authority and got to work, primarily but not only on controlling mosquito populations, draining breeding grounds, using DDT is kill, plus public education into using mosquito nets and local DDT, plus medication etc. They proved to be really good at this and in a few short years they essentially eliminated malaria – the number of new cases went from tens of thousands to single figures per year. This is around 1960-62 I think.
    
    So they declared “Job Done”, shut down the authority, stop spraying, and ceased the public education. Because it had been genuinely expensive. So they stopped using DDT for malarial control before the effective bans occurred.
    
    Over the next 20-30 years, malaria slowly returned, slow enough that no official action took place, and once again malaria is reasonably common, or at least not insignificant.
    
    In that case, the effective DDT bans played no part.
    
    Where it has been a problem is that DDT used very carefully can be extremely useful, even now with widespread insect resistance to it. That’s because even when an insect is largely resistant to DDT, it is still almost always repelled by it. So the use of DDT in mosquito net coatings and in small scale internal spraying (malarial and indeed most mosquitoes tend to rest in the dark corners of rooms) can be very effective. The major issue people have found with this is that such a program requires intensive and persistent effort, both to consistently insure that these actions are undertaken widely and that the DDT is not stolen and used (for very effective but very temporary use) as a general purpose crop insecticide.
    
    So the anti-DDT activity was partially justified – it was very widely abused and did cause serious problems including the production of widespread resistance – but also it became a stopper to the proper use of what still was a valuable tool.
    
    Simply blaming the anti-DDT brigade for a lack of action on malaria is counter-productive. Much more could have been done, and although DDT could help it was no magic bullet and it was dangerously close to becoming ineffective when it was banned because of widespread resistance caused by foolish overuse.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:15pm
- surfing
  
  “Or are they all (leaders of this world) suggesting that it’s OK for Africans to die, but not the rest of us?”
  
  Democratically elected western leaders are hired to look after the people .
  
  Self appointed and corrupt African leaders plunder the nations resources to feather their own nests.
  
  Africa has a political problem, not a healthcare problem. Nothing will be fixed in Africa until their leaders act honestly.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:02am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    So, by missing my point entirely, you are suggesting that it is OK to let Black people die?
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:30am
    - cmm
      
      I think the point surfing is trying to make is that the leaders of the corrupt African countries do not care about their people so how can the rest of the world do anything?
      
      The WHO etc are equally corrupt (witness their love of people like Robert Mugabe).
      
      It is not OK to just let black people die, but how do you do anything about it?
      
      The only way to actually remedy the situation is for colonial powers to depose the corrupt black leaders and replace them with competent administration.
      
      That is going to be a a very hard sell.
      
      And we could repeat this whole thread again substituting TB for malaria. Both are preventable diseases that kill around a million a year.
      
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      April 21, 2020 11:42am
      - Jules99
        
        The West doesn’t help by skimming off their most skilled and talented people. These are very same people who could make a difference in their own countries.
        
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        April 21, 2020 12:12pm
      - cmm
        
        Jules99:
        “The West doesn’t help by skimming off their most skilled and talented people.”
        
        The West does not skim off these people. The people voluntarily go overseas to escape their crappy corrupt countries and find work in places where they can build a future for their children.
        
        “These are very same people who could make a difference in their own countries.”
        
        No, not really. An honest valuable person can’t fix the corruption. There is little place for those people. Eventually they give up and go elsewhere.
        
        BTW: I’m one of those people.
        
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        April 21, 2020 1:38pm
surfing

https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/

This virus is going to sweep the world whether we like it or not. Total deaths will be very similar for countries with/without total lockdown.

Flatten the curve, don’t squash it!
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April 21, 2020 9:44am
- cmm
  
  Flattening the curve delays the impact of the virus.
  
  That is a Good Thing in the Northern hemisphere which is in the end of flu season and delaying cases pushes them out of flu season.
  
  Not such a Good Thing in Southern hemisphere where we are about to enter flu season and delay pushes cases into flu season.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:36pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

Did anyone notice the comments from Rob Everett from the FMA about banks needing to step up. The banks have apparently increased the volume of loans durign this period. This is not steppign up. Every dollar loaned, and all exisiting loans are backed by assets or guarantees. Can someone explain what banks have done that is not business as usual or resultign in banks making less money ? I call bullshit on banks helping. They continue to make more money. The mortgage holiday doenst reduce the return to banks.
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April 21, 2020 9:51am
- Nickc2
  
  I feel sorry for people who have mortgaged their houses against their businesses. The banks will not hesitate to force a mortgage sale if a loan can’t be repaid or serviced.
  Just remember who created this crisis. It sure as hell wasn’t the National Party. All loans have to be repaid somehow and that includes NZ’s loans.
  Suck it up peasants and don’t forget, Winston created it.
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:46am
- chukar
  
  Who supported the innocent?
  NZ s legal gun owners
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:13pm
krazykiwi

A few days ago there was some mention of the comparative lockdown impacts on economies.

The figure 85%(?) of New Zealand’s economy is impacted by our lockdown, while ‘only’ 47%(?) of Australia’s is.

I’m looking for the source. Can anyone help?
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April 21, 2020 9:58am
- old skool reactionary
  
  The aussie government has got a near half trillion $$$imulus plan started up.
  
  I wonder who will eventually pick up that bar tab?
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Same people that always do
    
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    April 21, 2020 10:33am
Cinematic

I can see there’s a lot of gnashing of teeth around Bridges performance to date. I think he’s doing ok. It’s time to plant a few seeds around government mismanagement of the virus to date. Bridge’s is doing that and that’s enough for now.

As the economic carcass is dragged out onto the public square and the peasants can see, hear, smell and feel it for the first time sentiment will quickly shift.

Dial it up then, a majority already knows or at least suspects this government hasn’t the skill and ability to navigate from here. It can’t survive the inevitable avalanche of bad news; you can’t spin a recession.
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April 21, 2020 10:02am
- brett68
  
  They can borrow and print their way to victory.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:17am
- kiwiracer
  
  I agree, even today the media are attacking for what he said yesterday, imho he just needs to be measured and just keep chipping away at it, otherwise it would be full blown negativity on him.
  Election time it is quite simple, if you don’t want Labour, you need to vote National, there’s no other choice, it’s either one or the other in the position of strength.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The Epidemic Response Committee’s hearing today was very interesting, especially the appearance before the committee of Small Business Minister Stuart Nash, and Employment Minister Willie Jackson. Both were questioned at length, and both were regularly pulled up when they veered of on a tangent, instead of answering the questions they had been asked.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:16pm
  - Paulus
    
    I am still voting National irrespective of whoever is the leader.
    I am not voting for an incompetent media led personality.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:58pm
Jimbob

Considering 30-40% of GDP is tourism, which is going to zero for at least the next 18 months, the crippled economy is already baked into the cake. Plus the savage beating this government is giving the farming sector, the other major source of GDP, where is tax revenue coming from? The Kiwi dollar is going to print below 40 cents US. If this pathetic mob get returned to power, all bets are off, can anyone say banana republic.
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April 21, 2020 10:02am
- kowtow
  
  Banana republic ? No , that would places like Venezuela .
  
  We’re more of a Kumara Republic .
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:13am
old skool reactionary

Everyone is arguing about the fatality rate of this virus and its Just The Flu Bro.

Anyone else on here getting information on those who only got “mild symptoms”? Seems many are not able to shake off the infection. Exhaustion and weird symptoms like loss of smell and taste continue for weeks with no real progress in recovery.

Its Not Just The Flu Bro.
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April 21, 2020 10:07am
- kowtow
  
  No , it’s Not Just The Flu Bro , it’s Wuflu.
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:10am
- fisho
  
  A lot of people associate a cough, cold or typical seasonal ailment as The Flu, in most cases they haven’t been suffering from the flu. If you contract influenza it can smash the crap out of you. I’ve had it proper once, a couple of years back, consider myself fit & healthy and it still knocked me on my arse for a week.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:13pm
Manolo

The Chinese puppet at work:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/who-head-warns-worst-of-virus-is-still-ahead/ar-BB12VRiF

The head of the World Health Organization has warned that “the worst is yet ahead of us” in the coronavirus outbreak, raising new alarm bells about the pandemic just as many countries are beginning to ease restrictive measures.
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April 21, 2020 10:09am
- PhilBest
  
  I bet they’re wrong again. The Chicoms are almost certainly keen to see the rest of the world maximise the economic self-damage now in sheer panic, and their WHO puppets will help that cause along for them.
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:50am
Jimbob

Also we are coming into Winter, the northern hemisphere is going into Summer with 85% of the Worlds population, flu cases always go up in Winter. More lockdowns anyone, people can take only so much of being locked up at home, this is going to get worse. Please tell me I’m wrong.
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April 21, 2020 10:10am
- old skool reactionary
  
  Singapore sits on the equator, but has not been able to stop a 3nd wave Wu Flu.
  
  I think summer helps because people are out in the open air more instead of huddled together in confined spaces.
  
  The idea of eliminating the Wu Flu is hilarious.
  
  Its game over for Globalism and Diversity*TM.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:26am
  - PhilBest
    
    Also sunshine kills viruses. Singapore does its very very best in the face of the density disadvantage, which must be overwhelming.
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:52am
  - cmm
    
    Singapore still gets “flu seasons”, but they get two a year and not nearly as big as ours.
    
    In Singapore, the flu season generally occurs between December and February. Another peak season is from May to July.
    
    https://www.healthhub.sg/a-z/diseases-and-conditions/103/topics_influenza
    
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    April 21, 2020 12:42pm
Suze Wainwright

OMG! Latest Facebook message rammed down my throat –

“Our leader is fantastic because a woman knows what her family needs…”

Complete with iconic photo of Cindy and an image of Aotearoa.

I’m not sure how much more cringeworthy, unsolicited saccharine-coated goodness I can cope with…
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April 21, 2020 10:14am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  That woman ‘might’ know what her family needs, but hasn’t exactly made it easy for the breadwinner (who may also be a woman!).
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:15am
- old skool reactionary
  
  [Deleted – no attacking politicians families. mod]
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:33am
  - old skool reactionary
    
    But its ok for politicians to use their personal life in carefully spin doctored narratives to chase ratings?
    
    If politicians use their family members to push a PR constructed a Instagram/Women’s Weekly friendly illusion of the perfect happy family to win votes, then voters need to be free to call out and ridicule those lies.
    
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    April 21, 2020 11:43am
MH

i’ve probably missed the answer to this, so if someone could reply much appreciated

why are there no deaths from kiwis below the 70 yr mark considering we have had over 1500 odd reported cases of 19. Why no deaths amongst all the orderlies, docs and nurses , ambo staff ? How come all recovered apart from the oldies
not wishing it on anyone.
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April 21, 2020 10:20am
- Andrei
  
  Healthy people usually only display mild symptoms, indeed maybe as many as 50% of those who become infected display no symptoms at all
  
  Those that die are generally very elderly with significant health problems – so much so that is often unclear whether it was the virus or the underlying health issue that is the true cause of death
  
  Somehow these are detailsthat have got lost in all the panic.
  
  Indeed before the virus struck this Northern Hemisphere winter had seen an unusally low numbers of deaths due to viral pneumonia and death rates somwhat below average –
  
  There is some thought that the people dying now probably would have died earlier in the flu season normally but that was kept at bay by a mild varient of that bug this year and/or vaccinations being particularly efficacious.
  
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  April 21, 2020 10:58am
Bill felt

Maybe someone can help me with this question?

Has Ardern always been in Wgtn for the last 3 weeks. And if she has left, how and for what reason?
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April 21, 2020 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There’s no evidence she has been out of her bubble.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120954236/inside-jacinda-arderns-coronavirus-bubble-whats-on-the-pms-mind-during-covid19-crisis
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:26pm
- calendar girl
  
  She couldn’t possibly have been anywhere other than in Wellington over the last three weeks. After all, she wouldn’t allow our “bubble” to travel in our own car – alone – to our own bach for Easter Weekend (just over a week ago).
  
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  April 22, 2020 8:41am
Fletch

It looks as though rich Americans are regarding our country with envious eyes as a safe, virus-free haven and are wanting to move here. Some are here already, with underground bunkers and the like…

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/australasia/article/3080720/coronavirus-rich-americans-look-new-zealand-pandemic-escape
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April 21, 2020 10:32am
Fletch

Trump smacks down yet another reporter looking to place blame with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G5_voy0Mpw
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April 21, 2020 10:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

People alone in their cars with a mask on are the reason there’s instructions on shampoo bottles
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April 21, 2020 10:35am
Tony Stuart

Winston Peters’ week just got worse:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/414730/sfo-decision-over-nz-first-foundation-will-come-before-election

Kudos to the SFO for resisting the temptation to park this until after the election. One way or the other, the voting public has a right to know what they are voting for.
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April 21, 2020 10:47am
- Poppa
  
  I predict a rather nasty outcome for Mr Peters on this occasion
  
  I hope the whole party burns to the ground
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:56pm
- Ruahine
  
  I wonder if the SFO have a date for that person known as JLR. The one that secretly records conversations.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:59pm
- Paulus
  
  Have no doubt it will be delayed !
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:59pm
Fisiani

For four weeks the world has not had live sport. The demand for viewing live sport is insatiable worldwide. Live sport requires a COVID free space and COVID free athletes. The first country to be declared FREE of COVID will be the first country to have televised sport again. With careful planning and advertising that country could host WORLD sport one month from now. May 21st. Sure there are potential risks but the first country to offer a safe space for sport and crowds has a major advantage. TV companies would pay top dollar for viewing rights. Imagine NBA in Auckland. EPL in Wellington and golf at Queenstown.
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April 21, 2020 10:49am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

There is a good Whitehouse press conference on Al Jazeera atm. The jornalists are well behaved. Looks like the normal ratbags are not there
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April 21, 2020 11:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  journalists* ffs
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:00am
Joely Doe

After Repeated Failures, It’s Time To Permanently Dump Epidemic Models

This one by Michael Fumento, which is sceptical about statistical modelling in general, is particularly good. He makes the following points:

The CDC’s model predicted that 1.4 million people would die from Ebola in Liberia and Sierra Leone five years ago. The final death toll was less than 8,000.

The US Public Health Service predicted that at least 450,000 Americans would be diagnosed with AIDS by the end of 1993. In fact, the number was 17,325.

In 2005, Neil Ferguson told the Guardian that up to 200 million people could die from bird flu. “Around 40 million people died in 1918 Spanish flu outbreak,” he explained. “There are six times more people on the planet now so you could scale it up to around 200 million people probably.” The final death toll from avian flu strain A/H5N1 was 440. (That’s 440 people, not 440 million.)

In 2002, the same Professor Ferguson predicted that mad cow disease could kill up to 50,000 people. It ended up killing less than 200.
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April 21, 2020 11:01am
- GoVege
  
  Well aren’t we lucky it didn’t!
  Possibly something to do with taking diseases more seriously these days.
  But…there are SIX TIMES as many people on the planet than in 1918?
  Surely not!
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:47pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Worth a look – obligatory xkcd link: https://xkcd.com/2295/
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:20pm
BeaB

Does anyone know what this means?

“Eliminate is not eradicate,” Dr Bloomfield said. “Eradicate is what the world has managed to do around smallpox. Eliminate is actually get it down to a very low level, and a level that we’ve got confidence we know where any cases that come up are and that we can stamp them out really quickly. So it’s not the same as completely eradicating it.”
(Newshub)
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April 21, 2020 11:03am
- cmm
  
  “Pork is not the same as pig meat”
  
  THis is all just buzzword bingo for the Great Unwashed.
  
  They are completely deluded if they think they can keep it at such a low level that they know where cases are that come up and can stamp them out.
  
  If this was true, then we should have had close to zero cases. As soon as the first case came up we’d have stamped it out.
  
  As others have pointed out, we can’t even control M Bovis even with complete herd tracking and quarantining and eartags.
  
  Unless people quarantine for 2 weeks before and after going to work or flying from CHC to AKL there will never be quarantining anywhere near what is done for cattle.
  
  Achieving this with people? Forget it.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:51pm
- rangitoto
  
  “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
  
  Unfortunately, Alice isn’t one of the journos they permit at the briefings. Awkward questions are not permitted.
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:19pm
- Ed Snack
  
  So I think he means it will be like Measles – we can keep it under adequate control as long as vaccination levels are high enough, but it may be hard to entirely eliminate this specific virus.
  
  Smallpox took tens of years to eliminate and possibly was a very good vaccination controlled subject. From what we know, BCV’s may not be great candidates for elimination, being RNA viruses with significant animal host populations so that reinfection can always recur. I pretty sure that Smallpox had an animal host, related virii used to create vaccines (Cowpox especially) did reside in animals but didn’t cause a significant human disease problem.
  
  Unless we wipe out all bat populations which would have significant ecological impacts that we can’t even really have any idea about. Insectivorous bats probably play a significant ecological role in insect control, but to what degree I don’t think is really known.
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:27pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Sorry, didn’t spot the typo – pretty sure that Smallpox did NOT have an animal host. That is, it was exclusively a human virus and not one that crosses the species barrier.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:59pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Bats make up 20% of Mammals… over 1200 species.
    Insectivorous bats have a very important ecological function in controlling night-flying bugs (moths, beetles)
    Fruit-eating bats … important role in tropical forests pollinating plants and dispersing seed.
    
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    April 21, 2020 8:39pm
rangitoto

Virgin Australia gone into administration.
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April 21, 2020 11:03am
- Colville
  
  Good job, horrible airline.
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:19am
Colville

So the Reserve Bank is going to drop the LVR totally?

ZERO deposits for houses??

The Reserve Bank is proposing the removal of mortgage loan-to-value ratio (LVR) restrictions in line with the Bank’s financial stability mandate.
The proposal is in response to the economic downturn caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The LVR requirements are one of the macro-prudential tools that the Reserve Bank has available to respond to cyclical pressures.
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April 21, 2020 11:04am
- kowtow
  
  Retail banks throwing money at dodgy borrowers to buy houses they couldn’t afford created the GFC 2008 . We’re still on record low interest rates as a result .
  
  Now the Reserve Bank is proposing to allow that all over again .
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:38am
- PhilBest
  
  All the ammo they can use to stop the inevitable crash after years of bubble inflation, will run out eventually
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:54am
  - cmm
    
    … and will turn a small crash into a big crash.
    
    One of the big reasons we did not get knocked as hard as USA in the GFC was because our lending was more sane than in USA.
    
    Subprime mortgages – here we come!
    
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    April 21, 2020 12:53pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Subprime Autoloans are going to collapse in the US too
      
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      April 21, 2020 12:59pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Just because the Reserve Bank loosens policy doesn’t mean the Banks will follow.
  All the Banks are currently stress testing their books.
  If values fall, this policy change may just effectively mean that if the LVR is now higher and above what it was previously then the Bank won’t have to call it up if the borrower is still making their payments.
  Ie it’s a tool to help deal with mortgages which are heading ‘underwater’
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:04pm
rouppe

Some comments here have caused me to undertake a modicum of research.

In NSW, Australia:

2020 Covid-19: cases: 2969, deaths: 28

2019 influenza cases in NSW to May 2019: cases 14,942, deaths 37

Does Australia go into lockdown every year?

After some digging I found the latest data for influenza in nz (2017) and there were 121 deaths, even though there was a widespread vaccination programme.
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/mort-2017-pub-20191218-final.xlsx

Did we go into lockdown? Why not?

There definitely appears to be some panic mongering going on
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April 21, 2020 11:10am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  It is not really comparable. As you point out influenza had 37 deaths for an out break with 5 times as many recorded cases (how many flu cases did not get recorded) when there was no lockdown. Even with a lockdown there were 28 covid deaths. How many covid deaths would there be if there was no lockdown?
  
  The Scandinavian countries provide as good an example as any. Sweden has 10 times the covid death rate of Norway. This will be largely due to the differences in the lockdown levels between Sweden and Norway.
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:17pm
  - MrTips
    
    Although your comment about the flu is right, your continual picking on Sweden is not valid.
    
    The Scandinavian countries provide as good an example as any. Sweden has 2-3 times less the covid death rate of France, Spain, Italy and Belgium. It has lower death rates than the Netherlands and Switzerland. This will be largely due to the differences in the lockdown levels between Sweden and all the others.
    
    Coins have two sides you know.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:05pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Is it true that Sweden, by taking the pain, is now well advanced to Herd immunity?
    Whereas we are not. And we are still susceptible to further waves of infection.
    Also it’s clear our Hospitals could have coped with more cases so perhaps we have over reacted.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:08pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      As noted above, you won’t get “herd immunity” naturally. You will get a chronic recurring lower level of infection.
      
      You need a vaccine to get to the levels needed to have “herd immunity”.
      
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      April 21, 2020 1:30pm
  - trout
    
    The Swedes have acknowledged that the death rate could have been reduced if aged care facilities (ret. villages, rest homes, hospice etc.) had been better protected. NZ has the same challenge; virtually all deaths here are related to age care facilities. I suspect that the massive procurement effort presently underway to obtain PEP gear is related to an intention to upgrade security and protection for the aged in the future.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:17pm
  - cmm
    
    Denmark, Sweden and Norway have almost exactly the same infection rate (less than 0.2%).
    
    Denmark’s death rate is double that of Norway and they locked down as hard as, or even harder than, Norway and both locked down way harder than we did.
    
    Given that the infection rates are almost identical, it is remarkable that they have such different death rates in these three countries. It would be interesting to understand that difference better.
    
    However it would be extreme cherry picking to use these as examples without a deeper understanding of what is in play.
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:20pm
Jack5

In a RNZ report about Du’Plessis Kirifi, the young Hurricanes rugby player describes himself as “an afakasi boy”.

A hint of what this means is that Kirifi says his mother is White and his father is Samoan.

The online Urban Dictionary says “afakasi” is the Samoan word for a person half-Samoan and half-White. It comes from the English word “half caste”.

Kirifi’s dad, in his rugby playing days, became a friend of the former Springbok, Morne Du’Plessis, and named his son after him.

“It’s pretty unique but I’ve grown to love it,” says the young Kirifi.

A level-headed bloke. I hope he goes far.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/414725/du-plessis-kirifi-the-new-breed-of-rugby-star
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April 21, 2020 11:30am
- old skool reactionary
  
  “I hope he goes far.”
  
  All the way back to Samoa please.
  
  Auckland has stabbings and shootings nearly every night. Guess who is doing it?
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:53am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I see you have spelled ‘reactionary’ wrong in your nom de plume.
    It should be r.a.c.i.s.t
    
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    April 21, 2020 1:10pm
    - Jack5
      
      The 11.53 post by “Old Skool Reactionary” is unfair.
      
      Du’Plessis Kirifi was born and raised in New Plymouth. His Mum is a white kiwi. Good on him for embracing his mixed parentage. It’s a refreshing change from the way many mixed-ethnicity folk cling over-enthusiastically to one side of their parentage and disparage the other side.
      
      Kirifi’s father, a Samoan, named his son after a friend who has been one of the Springboks’ best captains. This friend was also the son of another Springbok captain. Good on the Dad.
      
      If young Kirifi lives up to his rugby promise we’ll be cheering for him.
      
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      April 21, 2020 1:38pm
- PhilBest
  
  There is a hilarious rap song I heard in public years ago performed by “Afakasi and the Coconut Cream Kumara” from Porirua. I still remember;
  
  “I’m Afakasi, yes, thats-a me! Half a Samoan and a half a Maor-eeee”!
  
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  April 21, 2020 11:57am
kowtow

Simon Bridges on Peter Williams said there was a constituent’s call about the Mongrel Mob running a road block somewhere …….

…….where’s the rest of the Fourth Estate on this ?
10 1
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April 21, 2020 11:34am
- Martin Williams
  
  He screwed up on Facebook yesterday so blows on the dogwhistle today.
  
  3 24
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  April 21, 2020 11:42am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Just because loud, pathetic, dishonest Lefties attacked him (not what he said) doesn’t mean he screwed up. He was right. In fact, almost everything our lying idiot Prime Minister has done has been done off National & ACT telling them to, and it’s been done badly and unorganised. The unrelenting and baseless attacks were because the Left know they are wrong so they’re doubling down. It’s pathetic.
    
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    April 21, 2020 2:36pm
marcw

Now Stuff are even masquerading their “Opinion” pieces as faux-news.

This current leading piece by Sam Sachdeva is highlighted as “Analysis”:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121146070/coronavirus-ardern-walks-fine-line-on-lockdown-bridges-missteps

Orwellian is not an exaggeration.
18 2
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April 21, 2020 11:38am
- Komata
  
  Marcw@1138
  
  Perhaps that’s an indication of why Stuff have the begging bowl out?
  
  2 0
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  April 21, 2020 5:13pm
- Papalazarou
  
  Apologies – hit report by mistake. Intended to reply noting that Stuff lifted this article from newsroom
  
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  April 22, 2020 1:47pm
The only red for me is that of Manchester United

Much has been made of Singapore’s successful containment of COVID-19. Its relatively low death rate and ability to keep the country working. Singapore had learnt its lessons from SARS and was well prepared for any potential outbreaks of Covid viruses. This link is to very good article explaining how Singapore prepared themselves and measures that were put in place. Singapore has roughly the same population as New Zealand and shares the similarity of being an island. Since this report was written the number of cases has risen again but I would say Singapore will again contain the virus. The article only opens as a PDF but worth the read. https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article/doi/10.1093/jtm/taaa039/5804843
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April 21, 2020 11:51am
Tony Stuart

A 49yo New Zealander has died of coronavirus in Peru. He was unable to board the repatriation flight with other Kiwis last week.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121151502/coronavirus-kiwi-dies-of-covid19-in-peru
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April 21, 2020 11:58am
- GoVege
  
  That is so sad.
  And so young to have coronavirus, unless he had a more virulent strain.
  I think the story needs more investigation.
  Thanks to Stuff for bringing it to us…
  
  4 1
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  April 21, 2020 12:39pm
- cmm
  
  If he’s dead now he would have been infectious on the plane.
  
  4 1
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  April 21, 2020 1:24pm
Andrei

It is true UK hospitals are in crisis and overwhelmed

Just look at what their nurses doing on their shift
6 1
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April 21, 2020 12:12pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4a2RFhc2Ck
Labour could face an 8 million pound lawsuit over anti-semitism.
Thirty law suits coming their way. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.
Sir Keir Starmer has inherited this mess from Corbyn.
8 2
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April 21, 2020 12:16pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZKpiQnGX0
Bad news for the fourth Reich. Up to 53% of Italians
Want to leave. They’ve received medical supplies
From Russia, and China. So much for ‘solidarity’.
6 2
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April 21, 2020 12:17pm
- cmm
  
  China I can understand. All those fashion factories in Milan? Chinese owned, Chinese staffed, located in Milan for “Made In Milan” and EU subsidies. They’re looking after investments.
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:26pm
greenfinger

Dr Ash Bloomfield is politician first, and politician second! His interview with Duncan Garner was just about fending the whole time. What really upsets me and I think many kiwis most is when he implied if we fail to eradicate COVID19, it is because the public are not committed enough to following the rules. Has he even stopped to think, if we fail, it is because HE and JACINDA FAILED to convince and inspire the public to follow the guidelines.
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April 21, 2020 12:20pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Yes agreed, he might as well have been a politician standing up there on that interview. Getting very good at lying that guy.
  
  Most laughable statements he made were around ‘there being little chance of covid transmission with school kids and early childhood centres’. Is he for real there…??? Does he honestly think we are going to drink that koolaid?
  
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  April 21, 2020 12:35pm
- cmm
  
  A few months it was the Labour Party is failing Jacinda.
  
  Now it is the people failing Jacinda.
  
  It’s a bit like the adage about communism: It’s perfect, but people just don’t do it right.
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:27pm
greenfinger

Grant Robertson is showing that he doesn’t understand the commercial environment when suggesting NZ and Australia businesses are in similar position On COVID19 committtee Q&A. He is totally wrong! My business in Australia hasn’t suffered and is making similar among of money in the supply of construction material but my NZ business in same sector has gone from making a similar amount of profit to now loss making because of the shutdown! Get your facts rights, Mr Robertson!
16 2
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April 21, 2020 12:27pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They don’t understand how businesses work – never did and never will
  
  3 2
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  April 21, 2020 2:07pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  He knows, he just knows he can get away with lying.
  
  2 1
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  April 21, 2020 2:31pm
kwkiwigirl

Has anyone noticed Sean Plunket’s viewpoint on Magic radio has moved decidedly more to the centre, possibly even left?

Wonder why this is, just surmising that maybe it’s because Mediaworks might need a government bailout very shortly, so he is trying to make sure he doesn’t criticise the government handling of the covid situation and jeopardise that bailout.
15 2
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April 21, 2020 12:32pm
- kowtow
  
  I’ve turned him off. He’s taking the mick out of Williams as Williams , quite rightly questions CCP “investment” in NZ . Plunket seems t think it’s OK for them to take advantage of Fire Sale NZ inc, but that USA rich pricks in his opinion should piss off, not welcome.
  
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  April 21, 2020 1:17pm
Wired-one

I dont like agreeing with you Brett because I’m a solid National voter, but you are right, Bridges is unelectable. At the very least a leadership spillover would take away the narrative from Ardern. I personally would prefer Todd Muller or Nikki Kaye but you are right Judith is fierce, competent and tells it how it is. Ardern would hate to face Collins. My only wish is that Simon would stand down, not be rolled, it’s better for the party that way. But on the way out, allow Simon to fire as many shots at the biased media and this inept government as possible, really go out with a bang.
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April 21, 2020 2:08pm
- brett68
  
  Collins can play the stateswoman role, she’d be brilliant at it.
  One of the longest-serving politicians. was there at the coal face during the GFC, has held multiple high-level cabinet roles.
  
  She’d completely cut the legs out from underneath Ardern.
  Ardern can do the snarky shit to Bridges because he’s a guy and she’s the same age, she couldn’t do that against Collins without looking like a young smart-arse as well as incompetent as she gets her arse handed back on a plate.
  
  Come on National the path to victory is staring you in the face.
  
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  April 21, 2020 5:50pm
- John Warren
  
  If National regain power this year it will be in spite of Simon, rather than because of him.
  
  I’m increasingly of the opinion that Judith would be the right person to lead, despite some past missteps. And if not there are now others coming up through the ranks with both the credentials and credibility to make a good leader.
  
  For all his good points, Simon is basically unelectable.
  
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  April 21, 2020 6:46pm
  - brett68
    
    I don’t think Simon Bridges is a bad human being, he’s probably a really nice guy, he’s just not cut out to be a leader.
    
    That’s nothing against Simon, like bowling fast you either have it or you don’t, Simon does not have it.
    
    Simon has to realise that there are far bigger issues in play than protecting his ego, he has to man up, suck in his pride and step aside.
    
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    April 21, 2020 7:16pm
    - John Warren
      
      Pretty much my take on it, Brett.
      
      1 3
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      April 21, 2020 8:44pm
burt

So after covering up for the CCP by telling us there was no evidence of human transmission (after people were being welded into their apartment buildings in Wuhan and the wet market had been closed) and after Trump stopped funding them, the WHO now come out with this;

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121145906/world-health-organisation-head-warns-the-worst-of-coronavirus-pandemic-is-still-ahead

They are hopeless, when does NZ stop funding them?
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April 21, 2020 2:30pm
I remember when

Uri Friedman – The Atlantic.
How to write an article by the use of friendly Twitter users.
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April 21, 2020 2:33pm
Fletch

BREAKING: Trump suspends ALL immigration to the United States.

In light of the attack from the Invisible Enemy, as well as the need to protect the jobs of our GREAT American Citizens, I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 21, 2020
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April 21, 2020 2:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Careful, this is CNN.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/kim-jong-un-north-korea/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1q3nULY25hJuuaq_UmYDJGGo5ve-DJBIyc7zRJtXdzMqBQV-HttGV3Kus
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April 21, 2020 3:32pm
- Inandout
  
  Steve, dictators often die miserably eg Stalin on the floor after a stroke for 12 hours; possibly 30 million die under his rule. Mao after a heart attack, another 30 million. Lenin after his 3rd stroke, but an unusual death; number of Russian deaths unknown.
  
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  April 21, 2020 5:53pm
JibberJabber

A Labour MP business expert gives her 2 centsworth on running a small business,
https://twitter.com/dbseymour/status/1252428378012934145
4 1
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April 21, 2020 3:42pm
- Nickc2
  
  Wow, watching that, I couldn’t stop laughing. Being serious, this stupid . . . . . . could well end up as the Minister for Small Business or even worse, the Finance Minister. Not a nice thought.
  
  4 1
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  April 21, 2020 4:26pm
- Inandout
  
  JJ, fair go, a Labour business owner?
  
  2 1
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  April 21, 2020 5:55pm
Ed Snack

Oh Dear, Nancy Pelosi, just what were you thinking !

https://twitter.com/peterjhasson/status/1252374440572157956
2 1
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April 21, 2020 3:48pm
- Fletch
  
  Nancy Antoinette…
  
  2 2
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  April 21, 2020 4:33pm
lifesgood

The pro Jacinda lobby are going nuts all over twitter, facebook etc. Why are they so virulent? What has got them panicked? Why are all the overseas newspapers writing glowing accounts of her? Just wondering.
9 2
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April 21, 2020 5:15pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Planted articles by Jacinda’s team in overseas newspapers, in preparation for her UN post application.
  
  3 3
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  April 21, 2020 6:55pm
All_on_Red

So Kim Jong Un is apparently quite ill after heart surgery. Might have caught Covid.
If he dies and his sister takes over, that’s a triumph for feminism- right?
//
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April 21, 2020 6:33pm
John Warren

Deborah Russell reaches a new low, even for a Labour MP:

https://www.facebook.com/154331724631584/posts/3104877356243658/?d=null&vh=e

With thanks to David Seymour for bringing this to our attention. And make sure you at least scan the comments.
7 1
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April 21, 2020 6:36pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Appalling interview. Only a few weeks! It’s been 4 1/2 with no end in site for hospitality and tourism related business. Mind you there’s no tourism or hospo businesses in her electorate, because they’ve closed the Waitakere Ranges and any tourism opportunities, and there’s no opportunity for independent bars or liquor stores as the whole area is controlled by the state controlled liquor trusts.
  
  5 1
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  April 21, 2020 7:55pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yes, it was a shocking question from Dr Russell, implying that the L4 lockdown was just a “setback”.
  
  It’s bloody well not a setback. It’s a once-in-a-lifetime blow which hundreds of small businesses will not survive. But I guess when you isolate yourself in academic ivory towers, then in the hallowed walls of Parliament, you’re fine, and bugger what happens to the Kiwi battlers Labour used to support.
  
  There’s one positive; the reaction to Dr Russell on social media is every bit as vitriolic as that directed at Simon Bridges yesterday. At least Bridges was going in to bat for small business yesterday, whereas we now know where the MP for New Lynn and Chair of Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee stands.
  
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  April 21, 2020 8:17pm
Poppa

She is a nasty piece of work Tony

Another so called Dr in our midst, they seem to be rather common
7 1
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April 21, 2020 8:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Labour has running that meme.. that only struggling/poorly run businesses are going under… for a couple of weeks now.

Linda Clark pulled it out on a RNZ morning report interview…
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/04/general_debate_06_april_2020.html#comment-2678949

I’ve heard it repeated back to me by a friend (who has never run a business or employed folks).

Basically small businesses and their workers are just collateral damage for Labour’s ambition to retain power.
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April 21, 2020 9:07pm
- John Warren
  
  I can’t overstate how evil and subversive this is. The odious, greasy Stuart Nash (the Minister for Small Business, for fuck’s sake) trotted it out tonight on One News, and the appalling Deborah Russell is rightly being ripped a new rear exit on David Seymour’s Facebook page for her reprehensible aspersions.
  
  It is becoming increasingly clear that this line of defence has been discussed, approved and coordinated. It’s despicable. These [del – mod.] have violently jerked the rug out from under the NZ economy and now they’re going to weasel out of responsibility for the consequences by every foul means they can come up with.
  
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  April 21, 2020 9:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

If Labour is so confident of their superwoman, why have they gone full-guns blazing into Bridge’s criticism of their prolonged lockdown?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121169737/coronavirus-simon-bridges-receives-huge-backlash-to-facebook-post-criticising-lockdown-extension
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April 21, 2020 9:10pm
Gus87

Why has JA not condemned the CCP of destroying our economy and jobs. We should stop the importation baby formula for starters, take over control of any Chinese businesses that have ties to the CCP and stop paying debt to them. JA had advised Tony Blair to stop the supplies of baby formula during in the Iraq war. Which Tony Blair agreed and killed 1 million starved babies, which is a war crime. We hold the power to the world that feeds them.
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April 21, 2020 11:50pm

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