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April 25, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 April 2020

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PhilBest

Sorry to be back onto this topic on this day. But this is HUGE – the most intelligent COVID-19 press briefing yet held anywhere in the world happened two days ago, and all the MSM can talk about is Trump unwisely musing out loud with outside-the-square treatment research ideas.
UV in sunlight reduces the COVID-19 virus half-life from 6 hours to 2 minutes.
Watch this video from 20 minutes
https://www.c-span.org/video/?471458-1/president-trump-coronavirus-task-force-briefing
Discussed here:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/top-dhs-official-coronavirus-dies-fastest-in-sunlight-heat-humidity
And New Zealand’s outlier-high UV? How much more effective?
And the role of summer sunshine hours versus northern hemisphere?
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April 25, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  The evidence is building up to tsunami levels that NZ has a lucky anti-pandemic environment and the lockdown was an act of reckless folly. The role of UV is just one more to add to the list.
  
  Will this ever be admitted and commonly understood?
  
  Sadly – has the CAGW fraud, a forerunner of this one, ever been admitted and recognized as such? The lies may well live forever.
  
  Ron Mark ruined ANZAC Day for me by claiming in his address that “this could have been the 1918 Flu all over again if we hadn’t taken decisive action”. For a military man, he’s shamefully lacking in vigilance and obviously hasn’t the faintest idea on comparative stats between 1918 and now.
  
  Here’s some examples of “already standard knowledge” about sunlight and viruses:
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280232/
  
  “…Sunlight or, more specifically, solar UV radiation (UV) acts as the principal natural virucide in the environment…”
  
  NZ has high UV levels, doesn’t it….
  
  Here’s what the NZ Science Learning Hub has to say about it:
  
  https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/1304-positive-and-negative-effects-of-uv
  
  “…UV can effectively ‘kill’ (deactivate or destroy) microorganisms such as viruses and bacteria, for example, when hanging cloth nappies, underwear and tea-towels outside on the clothesline. To destroy the microorganisms, UV rays penetrate the cell’s membrane, destroying the DNA, and so stops its ability to reproduce and multiply…”
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:05am
  - PhilBest
    
    I find it quite plausible that a major reason for lockdown versus “no lockdown” making no observable difference to the progress of this pandemic (see link below) is that people getting out into the sun get viruses on their clothes and skin killed by sunlight anyway.
    
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-israeli-prof-claims-simple-stats-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:18am
    - Sacha
      
      AND we have Vit D aplenty. Make sure you keep up your supply during winter – sunlight is the best source. If you are confined indoors, take the pills.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    UV Sterilisers have been around for years and are still used in a wide range of applications.
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:44am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      I have one in my main fish tank. It keeps the green algae well under control and I haven’t had any bad disease outbreaks since I’ve had it running. Great little thing.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:05am
    - PhilBest
      
      It’s just sickening the way politicization of an issue obstructs progress towards the right solutions. I could see market-led resolution of the whole viral pandemic problem if we just sorted our information flow out. Good HEVAC and use of artificial UV could make all the difference even in a place like NYC. Obviously year-long shade from tall buildings isn’t healthy. I’d be recommending investments in the HEVAC industry right now if I wasn’t so pessimistic about partisan political distortion to information and knowledge.
      
      See also:
      
      https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:15am
      - Jules99
        
        I bought an air purifier for my room which had a UVC setting – in the documentation it says it kills bacteria and viruses. I have no idea how effective it is, but the theory is well known. Medical centres have UVC sterilisers.
        
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        April 25, 2020 9:34am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      No, no it’s new. Phil just heard about it in the “most the most intelligent COVID-19 press briefing yet held anywhere in the world happened two days ago.”
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:35am
      - Stephen Russell
        
        Yeah! Donald Trump invented UV yesterday. What a genius. And just as soon as a can find me a hypodermical needle I’m gonna inject some of his new Trump-brand disinfectant to kill it for good!
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:24am
      - PhilBest
        
        It was the most intelligent press briefing in the world BECAUSE it was the first to mention something that “the establishment” obviously wants to keep from common knowledge!! You’re just fine with that, aren’t you!!
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:42am
      - SGA
        
        I watched part of that briefing live – what a train wreck. They also announced that bleach and other disinfectants will kill viruses too – who knew? But please people, despite what Trump may think, these should not be taken internally.
        
        Regarding UV – as the speaker said, it’s direct UV – just because the virus dies quicker on one side of the climbing pole doesn’t mean it ain’t alive and well on the other. Extrapolate that to door handles, car doors, restaurants, classrooms, cafe tables under umbrellas, public transport, you get the picture.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:03am
      - Raphael
        
        SGA and yet there are studies being done on nebulised hydrogen peroxide ….that is taking a disinfectant internally
        (yes, under controlled medical environments, not at home)
        https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02765295
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:26am
    - Chris Morgan
      
      The concept of versions that combine these potential thoughts of killing the virus could lead to a Eureka moment in the weeks to come. Will we see the media praise Trump for encouraging some out of the box thinking? Of course not. BTW, why aren’t the media asking why Pelosi is turning up at press briefings dressed as Billy the Kid?
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:11am
      - Batman
        
        You’re confusing out of the box with someone who should be on the loony bin for everyone else’s safety.
        
        At this point I’m confident he will mention 5G within the next week 🤣
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:17am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        “Have you heard about this new, this 5G thing. People are saying it’s like microwaves. Microwaves will kill viruses, even better than sunlight or disinfectant. Amazing, truly amazing. I get this medical stuff better than any of the experts. We just need a way to get the microwaves inside the lungs, where the virus is.”
        Reports come in of people swallowing cellphones…
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:43am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    I couldn’t agree more about the comments from Ron Mark this morning – waxing off about the military protecting the country …. really Ron? Where were all the military service when it came to strictly ensuring quarantine in the early stages of the epic covid failure at every international port in this country … yup, nowhere and I don’t recall Mark ever stepping forward to suggest the military offer assistance. What a bloody disgrace. This time every year, as the mother of three young men, my heart simply breaks for the parents who lost their beautiful young men in war – all lost in their prime forsaking everything for their country
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:45am
    - Nickc2
      
      I believe an act of Parliament is required to have the military assist in law enforcement. It’s called ‘Aide to Civil Power’ if my memory serves me right. Or alternatively, NZ could have been put on a War Footing in order to involve the military.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:07am
      - Kabull
        
        Section 9 of the Defence Act provides that the Defence Force can be used to assist the Police where an emergency arises or is imminent that the Police cannot deal with alone. The key elements are:
        a) the involvement of the NZDF must be authorised by the PM or a minister on the advice/at the request of the Police; and
        b) NZDF personnel must act only at the request of the constable in charge of the situation.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:30pm
      - Nickc2
        
        @ Kabull
        Thanks for that Kabull. My memory is not that bad after all. Cheers. I’m surprised a brigade strength of lawyers are not also required to attend.
        
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        April 25, 2020 2:21pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Yep, and when you’ve had earlier relatives give their lives at 18, to fight to preserve freedoms that the current government are destroying, it makes you vomit.
      
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      April 25, 2020 1:35pm
  - cmm
    
    PhilBest: None of this is really new, though we might understand it a bit better now.
    
    In the early 1930s my grandmother was a single woman working in Uk and France. She got consumption (as TB was called then). This was pre-antibiotics.
    
    Solution: ship yourself off to a sunnier, cleaner country in the southern hemisphere. Off she went to South Africa (other choices were Australia and NZ).
    
    UV has two ways of helping:
    1) Direct sterilizing properties of damaging pathogens.
    
    2) UV-B creates by Vitamin D which is used by the immune system.
    
    It is interesting that black and hispanic people in NYC have been hit harder. Perhaps that is due to the problems black people have synthesizing Vit D?
    
    “Vitamin D insufficiency is more prevalent among African Americans (blacks) than other Americans and, in North America, most young, healthy blacks do not achieve optimal 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] concentrations at any time of year. This is primarily due to the fact that pigmentation reduces vitamin D production in the skin. ”
    
    “Furthermore, it is becoming increasingly apparent that vitamin D protects against other chronic conditions, including cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and some cancers, all of which are as prevalent or more prevalent among blacks than whites.”
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16549493
    
    So maybe it isn’t systemic racism.
    
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    April 25, 2020 4:19pm
- Durden
  
  I purposely went away found and actually viewed the full actual briefing.
  
  https://youtu.be/PsQnfpfIa_o?t=1196
  
  The discussion between 20 – 35 minute mark.
  
  All I can hear Trump doing is loud optimistic/hopeful musings on possible scenarios for treatments. Which of course reporters with TDS can’t get and hence their stupid headlines. This includes NZ media and indignant twatterati like Matthew Hooton and his pinned tweet. FFS indeed.
  
  Maybe Trump should not try to be positive and hopeful in his messaging to the country.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:30am
  - Nickc2
    
    Amazing what $50m with an unlimited amount to follow can buy by way of favourable/unfavourable press.
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:49am
    - oldfella
      
      I think Stuffed will need to be more careful about printing inflammatory articles like this. Not helpful. Not at all. Cindy will not be pleased.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121206976/prime-minister-needs-to-be-held-to-account-over-coronavirus-claims
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:02am
      - RightFirstTime
        
        Exactly oldfella. How the hell did this opinion piece ever get through the Stuff editorial process? (if in fact there is such a thing). I notice that the piece was accompanied by a less than flattering photo of the Prime Minister – another bad hair day!
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:22am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Another excellent piece by Steve Elers.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:29am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        Steve Elers, off to the Gulag for you
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:46am
      - krazykiwi
        
        “ If journalists can’t find the motivation within themselves to ask critical questions of the prime minister, perhaps they should imagine she is Simon Bridges.”
        
        Spot on.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:54am
      - herb1
        
        For the health and wellbeing of my TV, I hope the news media will start holding power to account. If journalists can’t find the motivation within themselves to ask critical questions of the prime minister, perhaps they should imagine she is Simon Bridges.
        
        And therein lies the truth and the reason the media are less popular than a fart in a space suit
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:25am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        With a hat-tip to the Soup Nazi: “No bailout money for YOU!”
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:55pm
  - fernglas
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Musing about ingesting bleach? Is that hopeful, optimistic or just plain stupid? And yes, I’ve seen the video, and his explanation that it was a sarcastic question to reporters would be acceptable only to someone suffering from TBS(total bullshit swallower) syndrome. And it begs the question why, if it was just a bit of innocent “musing” he felt the need to lie about it
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:56am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      His seems to be be musing in the question of how to kill the virus inside the body. Basically yes, UV and detergent kill viruses but how can we get “something like” that into the body. And that drs would need to develop something. He didn’t tell ppl to drink bleach! The morons are the ppl who always misinterpret his words.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:16am
      - fernglas
        
        I just don’t see that he should be “musing” about something about which he knows nothing in front of a nation of terrified people. It’s not exactly responsible, is it? Perhaps he could have brought it up at the task force meetings he apparently doesn’t attend. Or mentioned it to Dr Birx in private. But the meatheads in America who hang off his every word are just as likely to give it a go, in the same way that they did with some pesticide containing some thing that resembles chloroquine.
        
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        April 25, 2020 9:33am
      - fernglas
        
        Shame he didn’t stick around at the press conference to explain it a bit better..
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:18am
      - emmess
        
        They (the media) knew exactly what Trump was talking about. As usual, they are being intentionally disingenuous.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:29am
      - emmess
        
        fernglas, regarding the chroloquine I assume you are referring to the left-wing activist that used it to murder her husband.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ8iHixmCME
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:32am
      - Raphael
        
        UV light catheters are being used.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Sure he was:
        https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-defenders-scramble-to-explain-potus-covid-quackery
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:49pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @fernglas: “I just don’t see that he should be “musing” about something about which he knows nothing in front of a nation of terrified people.”
        
        We could say the exact same thing about Jacinda, who not only does exactly that, she interrupts and “corrects” (ha!) her own Director-General of Health, who actually does know what he’s talking about.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:38pm
    - PhilBest
      
      I just don’t believe he is that stupid. Actually in emergency situations you CAN sterilize drinking water by putting in say a teaspoon of bleach in a couple of liters. This comes in the category of general knowledge that people either have or they don’t. But I’d expect so called “medical expert” talking heads on TV to know this.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:19am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        I believe he is that stupid.
        
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        April 25, 2020 9:50am
      - SGA
        
        I just don’t believe he is that stupid
        
        Then he was doing a very good impression of someone who is. The bizarre thing is that he is doing it too himself – these aren’t responses to “gotcha” questions. He is transparently out of his depth on these issues (he can’t be an expert in everything), but chooses to offer half-baked ideas that make him look foolish. He can’t help trying to be centre stage even when he doesn’t really know the “lines”.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:11am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Calling someone stupid, writing “doing it too himself”?
        
        Murphy’s law.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:34pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Stupid.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:36am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      If you had to deal with activist “journalists” like Trump you’d want to wind them up too.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:47am
    - David Garrett
      
      ferglas: Well….actually No. I am no fan of Trump – if fact I think he is a narcissistic moron – but Durden above is right – all I heard on that clip was “optimistic musing” about the possible uses of light and disinfectant inside the body. I certainly didn’t hear any suggestion that people might like to think about drinking bleach. Quite simply, he said no such thing.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:10am
      - fernglas
        
        You’re right. He didn’t say anything about drinking bleach. He asked if there was a way that disinfectant could be injected. There are plenty of transcripts of what he said. And a couple of pharmaceutical companies have felt in necessary to come out and say that injecting disinfectant is dangerous. They at least thought there was risk that someone might take his “musings” seriously.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:24am
      - Liberty
        
        The Liar Tweets Tonight
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkU1ob_lHCw
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:59am
      - SGA
        
        I heard on that clip was “optimistic musing” about the possible uses of light and disinfectant inside the body.
        
        David, if Ardern decided to embellish Bloomfield’s comments with such half-baked, rambling “optimistic musings”, then the KB audience would be all over her like a rash. And rightly so.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:33am
      - SGA
        
        David, I note now that Trump himself was claims that rather than optimistic musing it was a “very sarcastic question” aimed at the reporters in attendance. I can’t see that I saw it that way, did you?
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:48pm
      - cmm
        
        SGA, we’ve had plenty of musings around saving tens of thousands of people.
        
        All complete bullshit.
        
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        April 25, 2020 2:21pm
  - Inandout
    
    Russia collusion failed miserably, Kavanaugh the same, impeachment as well. The MSM in US were desperate for anything.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:40am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    I have been snoozing all my relatives/friends on FB who post stupid shit like MSNBC and CNN sourced TDs propaganda. My feed is so much better – almost down to food pics and hobby stuff.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:47am
    - John Warren
      
      I don’t have a Facebook account (what percentage of us would that be now?) but my wife’s acts as a kind of proxy for both of us, and I’ve suggested to her she does the same. And all the crap they send in Messenger – the conspiracy theories, the anti-Trump memes…
      
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      April 25, 2020 12:22pm
      - David Garrett
        
        John W: It seems you are I are members of a very exclusive club: Those who see Facebook as, at best, inane nonsense. I think my staff may have set up and account for me, but I certainly have not ever used it since my political career flamed out.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:03pm
    - dave_c_
      
      I too have no Facebook account, but will leverage my wifes account to monitor public feeling/opinion.
      
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      April 25, 2020 5:00pm
  - bruceavon
    
    I got a message the other day that said Trump was talking about injecting disinfectant and using light to combat the disease and I didn’t think it could be right. I thought someone must have doctored a video and it was fake. And I already think he is an idiot. And then I saw the video. Now Trump fans are bending over backwards to excuse this. Its barely possible. Trump seems to have made the logic jump from disinfectant killing the virus on a surface to thinking maybe it would work internally?? And dodgy stuff about light has been talked about on Fox. So you can see where it comes from. This is all dangerous because his base believe everything have says.
    The main problem is that his press conferences go on for hours because Trump is using them to replace the attention he received at his rallies. Its his favourite part of the day. So he goes on about all sorts of stuff. All the poor experts who surely have better things to do have to sit through it all. The shot of Dr Deborah Birx looking on as Donald ponders injecting disinfectant as a potential cure is priceless.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:50am
  - Fletch
    
    And let’s remember, if this was Biden he’d have actually taken it seriously and be huffing bleach on the podium…
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:11am
    - Batman
      
      Sorry but speculating about injecting disinfectant is up there with the most hilariously dumb shit he has said.
      
      There is no way Biden would do anything similar, despite your hopes of such a thing.
      
      And I won’t even begin to get into the malaria drugs thing, which is becoming more and more clear that they’re harmful for a lot of people.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:15am
      - fernglas
        
        The FDA says they are useless and potentially dangerous. But who is the FDA to contradict the President?
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:26am
      - PhilBest
        
        Ventilators are harmful for a lot of people too but we don’t hear the Left arguing in bad faith against the use of them. The malaria drugs used properly at the right time, in combination with ventilators used properly at the right time, and in combination with the right antibiotics, do work and their application will only be further refined over time.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Fernglas, his uncle was a professor! There must be some powerfully intellectual genes there.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:47am
      - kloyd0306
        
        If you can point us, re video, to Trump’s saying that injecting or drinking bleach is something we should do, I promise to up tick your next 100 idiotic comments.
        
        The malaria drug tests you refer to are those when applied to advanced cases. When used early in the diagnosis, the results are excellent.
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:00pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        re: Malaria drugs, Earth to Batman:
        
        “The University of Washington School of Medicine is looking for people who have tested positive for COVID-19 to participate in a clinical trial aimed at finding out whether a controversial antimalarial drug called hydroxychloroquine can keep them from having to be hospitalized. . . . The $5.8 million trial is funded by the COVID-19 Therapeutics Accelerator, an initiative launched by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Wellcome and Mastercard, with support from an array of public and philanthropic donors.”
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:59pm
  - Fletch
    
    Thanks for the link. What I notice is that when the guy Bill Bryant is showing those charts about the half-life of the virus, he uses the word “inject” three times. “Injecting sunlight”, etc. It looks like Trump may have just picked up on that terminology (consciously or unconsciously) and repeated it. He certainly isn’t talking about injecting disinfectant directly. He is asking if there might be a way to bring some of that research, both with sunlight and disinfectant, to a practical use on the body.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:39am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’d suggest you give it up, Fletch, but I suspect that there is nothing Trump could say or do that would lead you back to reality.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:23am
    - Raphael
      
      Oh lookie, using Catheters and UV light
      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180823125116.htm
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:31am
      - PhilBest
        
        Amazing what intelligent objective contributors to a discussion can come up with! Go to the top of the class, Raphael!
        
        It now wouldn’t surprise me if Donald Trump knew about this stuff when 99.9% of people don’t.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:21pm
      - chiz
        
        Did you even bother to read that link Raphael? It talks about a study showing that UVC can kill bacteria in petri dishes. They *speculate* about using optical fibers to deliver it, UVC, by installing them alongside skin-penetrating devices like heart pump drivelines. This isn’t even remotely applicable to covid19
        
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        April 25, 2020 5:24pm
- Scott
  
  I also watched quite a few minutes of Trump’s briefing to the press and the nation. What I saw was that he was being calm and reasonable and talking things through. Giving some ideas as he saw it. Having reasonable discussion in other words.
  
  But what I also notice is that the American press are having none of it. And what I realise now is that they don’t want to ask journalistic questions. They are not actually seeking information.
  
  The goal of the American press is to try and exacerbate and annoy the president so that he will react angrily towards them. Then they will have the soundbite of the day. Then they will have the clicks and the coverage. Which is all they want. So the American press has a business model to be in permanent opposition to whatever Pres Trump says or does.
  
  Here in New Zealand it is the exact opposite. Our press have a business model to be as kind and placating and obsequious to the Prime Minister as possible. They ask her softball questions like “are you worried that New Zealanders will relax too much once we go to level 3?”
  
  Basically they support the Prime Minister at every turn.
  
  The leader of the opposition? Well that’s another thing entirely! Even when he is right by pointing out that New Zealand needed to be better prepared for testing and contact tracing, he has been roundly lambasted by the media. Even though stories appeared about the need for more testing and ability to trace contacts!?
  In the eyes of the New Zealand media the leader of the opposition is out of touch and is probably going to be rolled by his caucus in due course.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:43am
  - alloytoo
    
    Stories about replacing Bridges seem to precede a COL scandal.
    
    That’s the observed pattern.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:12am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    ‘Realise now’? This is what made me aware of msm lies during his election. He’s incredibly tough for not being beaten down by the daily barrage of lies.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:22am
  - PhilBest
    
    Exactly! Besides what you say, as the MSM agents of totalitarian progressivism were asking questions about this sunlight thingy at the Trump briefing, I could detect their DESPERATION to kill the idea that “people going out in the sun is better than locking them inside”!!
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:22am
  - fernglas
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Trump’s approval rating with Republicans is at 96%. Imagine if he was less disposed to lying. It could be 15% more.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:23am
    - calendar girl
      
      How very witty.
      
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      April 25, 2020 1:50pm
  - Jules99
    
    When you watch one of Trump’s press briefings it makes you realise how patient he his. If he really was as unstable as they claim he would be gone off the handle ages ago. I don’t know how he does it. By contrast, our PM can’t handle even slightly probing questions.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:38am
    - Sacha
      
      – and don’t forget the old dictum
      “There’s no such thing as bad publicity”.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:54am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    How did Trump’s malaria treatment serum go Scott? Bit inconvenient?
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:54am
    - RightNow
      
      Not inconvenient for Pakistan apparently
      
      ISLAMABAD, Pakistan
      
      Pakistan announced it would send the anti-malaria drug chloroquine to help friendly nations deal with the COVID-19 crisis, official media said Tuesday.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:32am
    - emmess
      
      It is going well
      https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a601240.html
      
      I suppose you a referring to the latest study. I have heard a lot in the media about that, even though it was only one amongst many and there are questions about it. The way that the drug was administered may have been inconsistent.
      
      I get the feeling that you lefties would rather hundreds of thousands die than Trump be proved, right.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:53am
    - kloyd0306
      
      One can assume then that if you contracted the disease and it was in its early stages, you would decline using it, despite the fact that when used in its early stages it is very, very successful.
      
      That’s okay though. It just means that those with brains will live longer.
      
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      April 25, 2020 2:00pm
  - Tomtoddy
    
    When people slag off Trump I think how come Chris Liddell, one of the smartest businessmen and thinkers to have ever come out of NZ, continues to work alongside him, advising and supporting him.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:36am
    - SGA
      
      Maybe he’s extremely well paid and the job has a certain cachet?
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:19am
      - theoldbloke
        
        You jest of course.
        Extremely well paid.
        You do know that at his previous job he had a multimillion dollar income?
        
        n January 2017 he was appointed as Assistant to the President for Strategic Initiatives in Donald Trump’s White House, on a salary of $30,000.
        
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        April 25, 2020 4:48pm
  - Komata
    
    Scott@0843
    
    Re: ‘…The American press has a business model to be in permanent opposition to whatever Pres Trump says or does’.
    
    Also known as a ‘Gotcha’ moment! The ultimate goal of most of American media ‘Reporters’ is to be the cause of a ‘Gotcha’ moment’ the thing that caused the President to fall.
    
    The logic is simple; To have the fame and fortune that would come with the ‘prestige’of destroying the man; a notoriety that will ensure a fat and juicy income into retirement and beyond through the medium of interviews, books, being a ‘preferred / knowledgeable / renowned / AUTHORITATIVE ‘Commentator’.
    
    If you view the ‘Reporter’s’ questions from THAT perspective everything makes perfect sense.
    
    ‘Stuff the public, I want MY chance at the money’, is the mantra they follow…
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:37am
    - SGA
      
      Also known as a ‘Gotcha’ moment! The ultimate goal of most of American media ‘Reporters’ is to be the cause of a ‘Gotcha’ moment’ the thing that caused the President to fall.
      
      But that’s not what is happening, Komata. Trump is doing this to himself. He tries to embellish his experts’ comments, milk them for more than what they are, and in doing so puts his foot in his mouth. If these press briefings aren’t going well for Trump, then he’s largely the author of his own misfortune. I’d bet that neither the experts nor his White House staff are happy about these performances.
      
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      April 25, 2020 1:20pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Latest moonwalk – he was joking and being sarcastic.
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/trump-claims-controversial-comment-about-injecting-disinfectants-was-sarcastic/ar-BB13a9EU?ocid=spartandhp
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:45am
- tas
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Musing out loud” is a very generous way of putting this brainfart.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wcQYA-ol_A
  
  A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:46am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    You do know about UV sterilisation of blood and using hydrogen peroxide mist in the lungs are possible treatments Tas? Maybe they won’t go anywhere but maybe it will. Something like 80-90 years ago it must have seemed incredulous that bread mould would offer our biggest leap in healthcare since washing hands before assisting in childbirth. (Which was highly controversial when it came in too). Asking questions and suggesting people do it as treatments are not the same thing.
    But if you swallow the bull-stream media it’s all orange man bad. No mention of the increasing number of elected Democrat politicians swapping over to Republican Party.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:03am
    - PhilBest
      
      Great comment,Brian. I thought WTF, when Trump was saying that, but later on I reconsidered. Some people can instinctively think outside the square, and that doesn’t mean they follow through on an idea that they soon discover to have been wrong. The fact that they thought of it and tested it isn’t without point. They might just turn out to be the genius who thought of something everyone else was missing. Science often makes its biggest advances because of people like these.
      
      Trump has to have had some pretty good “outside the square” intuitions to have got to where he is. He got it that Vichy “Progressivism Lite” is not the inevitable path for the “centre right” of politics.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:28am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        Phil, very early on before Donald Trump became President, by BS meter went off the charts by what was being reported. I have developed a habit of going to the original source and watching for myself what has been said. If you go back to Charlottesville protests, he called out the Neo-Nazis, and did not endorse them. You’d never know if you accepted what the Bull Stream Media told us.
        
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        April 25, 2020 9:38am
      - tas
        
        Brian Marshall: I also try to find the original source of things, rather than accepting the media’s version. That’s why I found the original unedited video and transcript and included it in my post above.
        
        There are many times where I think Trump has been unfairly portrayed by the media. This is not one of them.
        
        Trump is facing his advisers when he says this. He is telling them to investigate these ideas. He clearly doesn’t realise how dumb they are.
        
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        April 25, 2020 9:51am
    - tas
      
      It’s hard to respond to people who seem to believe Trump’s farts smell like lavender. So here are a few questions:
      
      (1) Should the president of the united states be “musing out loud” during briefings like this? Or should he stick to sound advice?
      
      (2) Trump spent weeks touting remdesivir, choloroquine, & hydroxychloroquine as treatments for COVID-19. Now trials are showing that these don’t work and he has stopped talking about them. Do you think he should have perhaps waited for the trial results before publicly endorsing these?
      
      (3) Killing COVID is easy; it’s doing so without also killing the patient that’s hard. Do you believe there is any scientific backing for Trump’s claims that light or disinfectant can be used to treat COVID?
      
      (4) Do you think Trump’s sentences are grammatically correct (or at least close to it)? Do you think the president of the united states should talk like that?
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:40am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        It’s his usual combination of complete ignorance and word salad. The man is a moron, as his first secretary of state realised.
        For the Trumpistas though, these moments are tests of loyalty. What are they going to do, admit they were wrong to follow this idiot, or seek some implausible ‘truths’ from his streams of verbal diarrhoea?
        
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        April 25, 2020 9:56am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I’ll go for a tobacco or hemp oil mist by virtue that in February (maybe January) smokers tested in Wuhan were only 2% of the fatalities in covid cases. In an ongoing conversation on Kiwiblog last Wednesday a poster was talking about the cleaning of the air tracts by beats of (word escapes me) microscopic brushes, also producing phlegm to help cough out viruses. I gathered these were damaged by smoking and looked it up to see that they recovered overtime when people stopped smoking.
      Not going down the smoking track of course but something airborne in tobacco had a probability of creating the anti-virus (for want of a better word.)
      And it makes sense that airborne v airborne is a more direct ‘fight.’ But hydrogen peroxide, I don’t know. At least tobacco is showing up in the data.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:51am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Seems folks have tried placing disinfectant/antiseptic solutions in their air-conditioning systems /humidifiers
      
      https://thorax.bmj.com/content/69/8/692
      
      Damn dangerous for your lungs .
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:45am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Better to inject it?
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:48am
  - MarkF
    
    Yes Tas I concur. If one is pedantic “The Don” didn’t actually say “inject disinfectant’ but the inference was definitely there! Going by past “musings” of Donald and the (and I can only call it) intelligence level of some Americans. I refer to a reference to a malaria drug which is confused with a fishbowl cleaner that didn’t turn out so well for a couple of Arizonians. Just BTW the malaria drug trumpeted by the Don was found to be completely ineffective.
    Some may argue he is trying to give a positive message but I would have liked to have seen the face of the gentleman talking before The Don whilst that brainfart left his mouth.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:11am
    - PhilBest
      
      “…the malaria drug trumpeted by the Don was found to be completely ineffective…”
      
      Not the case at all. I have seen accusations from the “successful trial” doctors, that the “unsuccessful trial” doctors deliberately set out to fail.
      
      For example, the successful trial doctors have specifically said the treatment is only successful in the early stages. So the “unsuccessful trial” doctors did a trial on late-stage COVID patients.
      
      Ironically no-one is criticising Ventilator treatment, they are rather beating up Ventilator availability as a political issue; and yet it now looks like Ventilator treatment was actually killing COVID-19 patients in the early days. When people were going to die anyway, we can excuse errors of this nature but we should be consistent with our granting of the benefit of the doubt.
      
      Drinking fish tank cleaner was just Darwin-Award stuff. It’s a different chemical name anyway.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:34am
      - tas
        
        We currently have no treatment for COVID-19, only supportive treatment. That means treating the symptoms, without treating the cause.
        
        Supplementary oxygen, mechanical ventilation, and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation are proven treatments for pneumonia. Patients receive this treatment when they are getting insufficient oxygen into their bloodstream and when they are physically struggling to breathe.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:08am
      - Fletch
        
        Yeh, and the two who drank fish tank cleaner turned out to be Democrats, not Trump supporters. So who are the stupid ones?
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:42am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        I read tas, that the survival rate for those put on ventilators in Britain I think it was, is very low.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:49am
      - tas
        
        Brian McDonald: If you are sick enough to get put on a ventilator, your prognosis is poor. If your lungs are failing, your other organs may soon follow. As I said, the ventilator does not treat COVID, it only treats the respiratory symptoms. The ventilator may buy your body a few more days to fight off the virus, but it cannot fight the virus for you.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:10am
      - kloyd0306
        
        ….a positive is that the fish tank drinkers cannot vote for Biden.
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:10pm
    - Brian Marshall
      
      The woman is under investigation for suspected murder. Somehow a woman who is an anti-Trump Democrat donating party member and had been charged with assaulting her husband and filing for divorce a few years ago, suddenly believes that she should take algae treatment to prevent Covid19 because the man she had rallied against said a similar product shows promise in treatment? Well I heard her being interviewed by a reporter, and you could hear how the reporter was trying to get her to blame the President. Disgusting media lying again.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:44am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      You mean that guy who was fed the stuff by his divorce wanting wife who was also a major Dem donator.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:49am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s is so painfully stupid.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:51am
    - Joely Doe
      
      That’s is so painfully stupid.
      
      Yes. Yes it is.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:09am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    One result of sunlight can be an increase in ozone. Healthcare for aeons, before big Pharma has included fresh air and sunlight. Vitamin D and others result. Increases of mineral salts with zinc and magnesium are also desirable. None of these are a direct cure but may assist the body in its overall objectives.
    
    High death clusters
    I met the people in Rosewood last Christmas and others at our church minister to them regularly. They have nothing to distinguish them from any other group except age and certified dementia.
    These nursing homes operate as part of the NZ hospital care for the elderly with qualified nurses and doctors in regular attendance.
    
    Could it be that what does distinguish them is a virus or other infective agent that is unique to that place? It is common to see scientists hunting for new strains or species of life forms so they get credit and naming rights. Why can’t a nursing home or a village have its own peculiar bug? One that everyone there gets and may not even be recognised; one that has a minor effect and may or may not be treated for any symptoms–just part of the background of the place. Such a bug could help or hinder another infection by changing the usual conditions it encounters.
    
    That could make some nursing homes or locations highly dangerous and others insignificant. Overcrowding has always been a health risk whether for humans where it promoted TB or animal husbandry–don’t ask about life in a broiler chicken house where they have to add antibiotics to the daily feed. People living close together like in a nursing home or crowded tenement blocks (NY, Milan) can expect to share all the local bugs, including any special only to them. Hence their risk from overcrowding can be multiplied further. The local bug may not thrive in a different population group so stays localised.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:23am
    - PhilBest
      
      Something that some experts have been saying all along is that all the epicentres like Northern Italy and NYC have whole neighborhoods of buildings with existing problems indicated in a high incidence of things like Legionnella. I can’t help thinking that one of the things that keeps places like Singapore and Tokyo and South Korea relatively safe in spite of high density, is fanatical rates of renewal of buildings and neighbourhoods.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:52am
    - Sacha
      
      It’s possible that dementia care requires secure control of movement, and that residents don’t get out into the sun. I remember that when I started my nurse training in the mid 50’s many wards had rooms with French doors opening out onto wide verandahs, and each day the patients on bedrest would be wheeled out for 2 hours of sunshine – especially those in the TB wards, and children with osteomyelitis or those who had come from poor and overcrowded homes and were prone to chest infections.
      People have come to depend on drugs for their good health, ignoring the benefits of self care and a beneficent climate if indeed they ever learnt it. And parents have lost the art of nurturing their children both physically and mentally – and in the long run society suffers.
      
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      April 25, 2020 12:12pm
    - david
      
      Kevin, the old “antibiotics in the broiler feed” myth has been busted so many times that the rest of your otherwise possibly reasonable comment got lost in the mush.
      It might of course have been as simple as the possibility that Rosewood dementa and palliative care unit faces South and the inmates get little or no natural sunlight, or that the windows are tinted and filter UV.
      
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      April 25, 2020 12:30pm
      - David Garrett
        
        david: No, to be fair, overseas – including the US I’m sure – chickens and other animals are routinely fed prophylactic anti-biotics…doing so has been illegal here for donkey’s years.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:08pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I have worked in a broiler raiser and there was a penicillin derivative (ampicillin?) in the formula in the sacks from the food supplier. That was some years ago.
        
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        April 25, 2020 6:53pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Ozone for disinfecting air is OK, but not OK ingested. Ozone is toxic in more than trace quantities. Ozone in any significant quantity will strip paint off metal, melt rubber and cause severe oxidation in both humans and objects.
      
      What you are really looking for are very small air ions, in the right quantity and polarity balance that both retard virus growth and help stimulate the self purging of the lungs.
      
      Ask NASA, they spent a lot of money figuring this out in the 60’s and 70’s. When they started extending the time spent in space orbiting the earth, the astronauts started suffering from oxygen deprivation, despite adequate oxygen supplies.
      
      One astronaut nearly didn’t make it back because he lost ‘motor control’ (limbs). There were news articles about it at the time, describing how NASA had to build devices to to ionise the air.
      
      I used to have the newspaper clippings.
      
      One doctor has described the Covid-19 patients as have the same symptoms as “high altitude” sickness. Essentially not being able to absorb oxygen. It has something to do with the net electrical charge of the Corona Virus. Corona Virus is aptly named because that net electrical charge causes the virus to “glow”.
      
      Ions shortages and imbalances have the same effect at sea level – oxygen deprivation. Not being able to absorb oxygen despite and adequate supply.
      
      Stay tuned.
      
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      April 25, 2020 2:55pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Cindy made the captain’s call to go early and go hard and Kiwis are seeing the benefits of this great strategy. Now Robber Robo is coming with great economic recovery plans to make NZ great again. Kiwis are brimming with national pride. Milk and honey will soon start to flow on the streets. Birds are chirping, sun is shining, Kiwis can get flat white and fries from Tuesday morning. Life cannot be better. What Covid-19? I am off to play Golf.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:08am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Interested in your comment re recommendations (rules) 6 and 12 and do they contradict each other?
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:12pm
- Mummy
  
  Yes. I remember when my first baby shat his nappy for the first time and it came out of the washing machine covered in big ugly karitane yellow stains my mother said don’t worry, sunlight will get rid of that. I had visions of standing at the laundry tub scrubbing 14 nappies a day with the famous yellow soap before I realized she meant sunshine. And it worked, even in mid July.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:33am
  - tas
    
    Sunlight also results in sunburn.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:02am
  - John Warren
    
    As a four-year-old, more than 50 years ago, I was taken on an outing by family friends and we were involved in a head-on car smash that killed the mother, critically injured the 15 year old daughter, and left me with badly broken legs. I spent many weeks in traction, and many months more in rehabilitation. To add to the drama, when the young junior nurse removed the final cast from my right leg it came away with a most of the skin from the inner thigh still attached. It was horrific, and even now I can remember how terribly upset the young nurse was.
    
    Anyway, point is, during recovery, my grandmother (bless her beautiful soul) would, every day, remove my dressing, sit me on her knee, and let the wound get an hour or more of full sun while she read to me. This went on for weeks.
    
    My leg healed without any further assistance, no graft was required, and there was no scarring at all.
    
    Of course, it might be that back then there wasn’t quite the ozone hole and deadly levels of UV we have now?
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:35pm
- Alex13
  
  You missed the WHOLE recipe: strong light inserted through one’s back side PLUS disinfectant injected intravenously. “Outside-the-square” indeed.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:00am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How about just eating light bulbs?
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:50am
  - rangitoto
    
    Don’t tell the MSM, they will think you are serious.
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:24pm
- calendar girl
  
  Well done, Dr Steven Elers, holding PM Ardern to account with regard to misleading comments at one of her media appearances on the Covid-19 issue.
  
  For more detail on Elers’ credentials in respect of media communications, go to: https://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/learning/colleges/college-business/about-the-college/massey-business-school-staff/massey-business-school-staff_home.cfm?stref=656350
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:58am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Not only does our government of minority parties need to be accountable, so does the compliant media.
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:15pm
  - Doc Holliday
    
    Nonsense. NZ does have one of the highest testing regimens. It may be 31st, but he doesn’t mention there are about 130 countries below that level.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121206976/prime-minister-needs-to-be-held-to-account-over-coronavirus-claims
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:44pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Could we fire UV down an intubation tube?
      At a level to kill the virus but not the patient?
      
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      April 25, 2020 1:03pm
  - Scott
    
    Good to see something sensible coming from Massey University! It was the business school and they are far more inclined to good sense than the neo Marxists in sociology and social work 😊
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:37pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Supply all patients and nurses with UV sunglasses and
  https://www.designboom.com/technology/uvd-robots-disinfect-hospital-rooms-uv-light-03-21-2020/
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:01pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Come on people, haven’t we all been saying this exact thing for years:
  
  Sunlight is the best disinfectant!
  
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  April 25, 2020 2:04pm
Scott

Brendon O’Neill in Spiked is one of the few courageous commentators in Great Britain speaking out about this lock down in the face of the virus.

He says its no good relying on experts who by definition have concentrated on one thing all their life and often don’t have the broad understanding of society that is needed in times of crisis.

We see this here. Politicians bowing down to the unelected “experts” that maybe understand health but don’t understand business. The desire of the media class to avoid risk and their demand we go into lock down.

And the need for our leaders to have courage. This lock down response may be so destructive to our society that the cure proves worse than the disease.

I’ll be interested now that jobs are on the line at Stuff whether the media class changes their tune? When their job is on the line, when they can’t pay the mortgage, maybe they’ll understand better the plight of the ordinary person who needs to restart their small business.

Much of what has happened in NZ and around the world has been driven by risk averse “experts” and the frightened young women of the media who demanded lock down. Now apparently we are trying to “eliminate” the virus? So more lock down and for how long? How many businesses can survive two months of no income? This extended lock down may be the nail in the coffin for thousands of small business owners.

As Barry Brill said recently on kiwiblog – the extended lock down and the goal of eliminating the virus may prove to be the worst decisions ever made by a NZ government.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/24/the-importance-of-courage/
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April 25, 2020 8:01am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  If you are a government with authoritarian tendencies, which of the following “experts” are you going to choose?
  
  Expert A. “Herd immunity will save us. Protect the elderly and ill. Business as usual. No lockdown.”
  
  Expert B. “Worse than flu. Secure all borders. Quaranteen all incomers.”
  
  Expert C. “Lockdown. Give police extraordinary powers of search and detention. No social gathering. Queue, queue, queue. Border security is fine as is.”
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:32am
  - Ruahine
    
    I think we might be following a diktat from the WHO.
    Who were probably told by China that this was the way to control the virus. Ruin economies.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:08am
    - Komata
      
      Ruahine@1008
      
      And this raises an interesting question which has long gone unanswered: What was the exact purpose of JA’s less-than-24 hour trip to Beijing?
      
      As it is very, very unusual for a Head of State to effectively just ‘pop in to say ‘Hi’, no-one in the NZMSM seems to have asked (or even been inclined to ask) the question, so one has to wonder why.
      
      So far, the silence has been rather loud….
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:03am
- PhilBest
  
  It is interesting how someone still alive from the National MP’s of the 1980’s can be so clear about this when the current crop can’t. In fact even the surviving Labour MP’s from the same time are clearer on most issues than current National. Even minor ones like John Terris and Michael Bassett.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:36am
- PhilBest
  
  Brendon O’Neill and James Delingpole are theoretically on opposite sides of the traditional political divide, but find a lot of common ground in the recorded discussions they have made. Interesting listening always.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:40am
- guardianista
  
  Yes spiked is great and free, but it relies on the odd donation to survive. I give them (and quilette) a little pocket money, better than wasting it on stuff.
  
  And if I was going to pay a newspaper to get through it’s paywall it would be the telegraph, not the herald.
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:36am
Doug

Phil Twitford the enemy of the people?

Councils are being warned not to slash rates in response to the coronavirus crisis, with a Cabinet minister saying it could cost them government funding.

Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford delivered the blunt message at a meeting this week featuring local government leaders from Hamilton, Waikato and Waipā.

Asked if the Government has adopted a stance on local government rates, Twyford said his own view is councils should resist reducing rates.

“Don’t cut your rates,” Twyford said.
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April 25, 2020 8:06am
- Bobba Fret
  
  is it true that Phil Goff is letting the public decide if they want a 2.5% or a 3.5% rates increase? ie. there is no 0% choice?
  Bit of a no brainer really, so then he can say the public supported his proposed 2.5% increase.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:02am
- redeye
  
  “Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford”
  
  The most frightening oxymoron I’ve seen on this site.
  
  40 1
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  April 25, 2020 9:30am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Fixed it for you “The most frightening moron I’ve seen on this site.”
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:30pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford
  Tell me your’e not joking…
  
  22 1
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  April 25, 2020 10:44am
- John Warren
  
  Fuck you, Phil Twyford. I expect Phil Twyford isn’t struggling to pay his, even with his pressure-induced temporary salary cut.
  
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  April 25, 2020 12:38pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  And
  Remember, the govt. placed an increased levy on councils for the use of landfills.
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:06pm
David Garrett

ANZAC Day…the most sacred day of the year for me by far. Partly it is because I carry a feeling of shame that my father never served, although he was 20 in 1940. The reasons were never made clear, but I doubt it was physical weakness; he worked as a carpenter all his life, and lived to be 86.

For those who don’t know it by heart, and to save Googling:

The Ode of Remembrance
They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them. We WILL remember them.

It’s been a while since I was last in an RSA, but to the best of my knowledge the Ode is still recited at sunset every day.
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April 25, 2020 8:11am
- mjw
  
  It is still recited David, at 6pm in my RSA. I never fail to be touched by it.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:14am
  - CJames
    
    Who are the idiots downticking mjw’s comments? How about reading it before ticking – rater than being proof the Pavlov’s dogs have crossed species? Or even putting up evidence saying it’s wrong.
    And yes, the reading of the poem lines is always a stirring moment, though a lot more in Australia than here
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:12am
  - Inandout
    
    mjw: It is beautifully written.
    
    14 2
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    April 25, 2020 9:47am
  - oldfella
    
    Yes, a moving call to remember (I’m the son of a WW2 veteran). FWIW, I think the line in the Ode is ‘they shall grow not old…’. It was changed to ‘not grow old’ in the Peter Jackson movie.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:37am
- PhilBest
  
  Who’s downticking Garrett? And why? Even Mikenmild isn’t getting downticked for his Anzac Day relevant comment. On the Anzac Day thread. Perhaps DG meant to put this there?
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:20am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Thosedowntickers are Green MPs.
    
    33 7
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    April 25, 2020 9:11am
- Andrei
  
  You are the unworthy successors of those who fought in two world wars
  
  A sad timid people who have allowed yourselves to be imprisoned in your own homes by a kindy teacher wannabe who wont let you go out in case you catch a cold.
  
  What do you think those fellows who gave everything for you would think of what you have become?
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:25am
  - igm
    
    She was out in the cold this morning, Stuff earning their taxpayer-funded bail-out by publishing a lead pic with her and Jethro posing . . . was not wearing muslim regalia either!
    
    30 6
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    April 25, 2020 8:49am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Hardly a fitting remembrance of soldiers. Young men, that stood a post, with a rifle, protecting their mates from those who would kill them
      
      2 2
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      April 25, 2020 1:11pm
  - Alboy
    
    They would be turning in their graves….
    
    26 3
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    April 25, 2020 8:50am
  - Inandout
    
    Andrei, my daughter in NSW says she is over this no contact, especially when it is suggested this could ‘become the new norm’. She has lived over there for 10 years and has taken on the Aussie disrespect for officials spouting bullshit. Kiwis on the other hand appear a bloody compliant lot.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:52am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Andrei,
    Comment of the month.
    An uptick is inadequate acknowledgement of your perceptive observation.
    
    19 3
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    April 25, 2020 9:53am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You call other people timid but you don’t use your name? Bit cowardly old dear.
    
    1 28
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    April 25, 2020 10:56am
    - David Garrett
      
      Says the prick who hid behind a pseud for years, and threatened anyone who outed him.
      
      I won’t risk saying once again what should have happened to you 40 odd years ago…No doubt you’d run off to the headmaster – again – if I did so.
      
      On this day of all days you should stay hidden under your rock.
      
      26 2
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      April 25, 2020 11:03am
      - David Garrett
        
        …and your disgusting use of “cowardly” with reference to someone else can’t go without mention…How old was Margaret Bell again??
        
        12 2
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        April 25, 2020 1:10pm
      - David Garrett
        
        …And just for those who can’t be bothered Googling..
        
        Brian Ronald McDonald is not guilty of one but
        TWO murders…his second victim was a young girl called Margaret Bell, whose only crime was to be waiting for a taxi outside a nightclub where the object of McDonald’s attention was working… Ms Bell was apparently an innocent victim of McDonald’s attention…Not for me…the prick ought to have hanged, but because he apparently has threatened our host, the mongrel continues to comment here…Oh, please do come out and see me Brian…I might be over 60, but I am still not an 18 year old girl…
        
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        April 25, 2020 5:21pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Hey downticker. Ordinary people put their lives on the line, so you could live long and free. Show some respect. It doesn’t cost you much.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:30am
- Lee C
  
  Here is my own [tiny] tribute to this:
  https://clark2.bandcamp.com/album/critical-mass-4
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:40am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Txs
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:01am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Nice post David. But who the hell would down tick a post like this?
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:04am
- plc
  
  My dad went at the age of 21 and fought at El Alamein and Cassino and my great uncle was wounded in the landings at Anzac Cove then died at Passchendaele (at the age of 37).
  
  As a kid growing up I could never understand why some fought and others got to stay at home. My dad’s brother and brother-in-law were early 30s and never went.
  
  Dad died from skin cancer (red head in the desert not a good mix) at the age of 59 after serving and then working a full life. Gone too soon. I was only 18 and never got to have the conversations I wished I had.
  
  No doubt it affected him – he never spoke about it and was prone to heavy social drinking.
  
  I miss him – and I’m so proud of his contribution.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:05am
  - David Garrett
    
    plc: I am not sure why, but even as a youngster I had a different attitude from my mates who sneered at “those old pissheads at the RSA”. I had a sense that “those old pissheads” – who would only have been in their late 50’s early 60’s at the time – had not been much older than us when they went to war…in many cases conscripted.
    
    As I grew older, I realised that in fact the RSA was the closest thing to counselling the poor buggers had…PTSD wasn’t invented in 1980, and there was certainly no counselling as we now understand it. The RSA was the only place they could talk about seeing their mate’s head blown off by a shell, or his guts lying in the bottom of the rear turret of a Lancaster bomber.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:40am
    - notreadyet
      
      I was brought up in a district that had a large number of returned soldiers who were all settled on dairy farms, there were no RSA pissheads amoung them, all typical hard working farmers. I still clearly remember possibly in the very early sixties a number of these families all making an hr plus trip yo the dawn parade at Auckland museum, one year when the cows were dry. Dads father was on Gallopoli and then the Somme and got a dose of gas in mid Sept 19 in a battle thst resulted in the girst breech of the Hindenburg line that resulted to war end 7 weeks later. He never made old bones
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:06am
  - oldfella
    
    plc, that’s very similar to my experience with my own dad. He also served in the desert, which stuffed his health, but would never talk about it. Liked his beer too much, and his cigarettes, and died at 59 when I was 18. It was only when I came to write a personal family memoir for my own children that I realised how little I knew about my father, and his days in uniform. He’s been dead for over 50 years, but I still miss him.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:48am
- David Garrett
  
  I never thought I would write this…but there is a great feature on Stuff, the war memories of 12 veterans of all three services, including New Zealand’s oldest man, who still lives in his own home at 108!
  
  Several of them report having very close shaves during the war…well worth reading.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:07am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    I hope Stuff has not put a picture of Cindy in a NZ war uniform in that story??
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:12am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    The 103 year old ambulance driver had some great stories.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:25am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’m afraid you got the ode wrong.
  ‘They shall grow not old’
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:00am
- Ruahine
  
  Laurence Binyon.
  Great piece of poetry. So memorable.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:36am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I know that shame too. My dad got “manpowered” and had to stay here and help in the Dept of Labour. That bothered him all his life.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:48am
  - Sacha
    
    @ Kev O’Brien: My farmer Dad too but he did his best.
    One day in 1946 he arrived home after the monthly trip to town for groceries with a 6-month old baby in the Oldsmobile, complete with cot/clothes/bottle etc. much to my Mother’s astonishment, not to say alarm. He had gone to get some petrol and got talking to a chap who had returned from the war to find his wife having a nervous breakdown – and a tiny baby. Back then there were no support services, so his wife was sent back to her parents in South Africa, and Dad looked after the baby – and did very well, except that the day my Father spoke to him, he had been told that his chesty cold was in fact TB, and that he must go into the sanatorium immediately. What to do with the child?
    My Father went round to his house and collected everything he could find, and brought the baby home. We had him for over 2 years and he was the little brother I never had. My Mother wept copious tears when he went ‘home’ to his father, and then to South Africa.
    We had an orchard and grew vegetables and kept hens, and an extra house cow for eggs and butter which my Mother made, and my Father would kill a sheep, and occasionally a cattle beast which we would take in to town to help out family and friends who were doing it hard. We would do a 2 hour ‘town trip’ every few weeks during the war. Butter, cheese, sugar and tea were rationed. Jam was a rare treat .Fruit and vegetables were garden grown. New Zealand was indeed the pantry of Great Britain.
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:52pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Thanks for that. We were Wellington City dwellers and Dad worked on the Railways as a Clerk. His basic abilities must have got him an appointment he did not seek. He felt he had let his side down by not going overseas where his heart was.
      
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      April 25, 2020 7:01pm
artemisia

Deborah Russell talking to HDPA last evening. I used the wrong words, and I apologised on Facebook to people I hurt.

On behalf of small business owners, including my two, sorry Ms Russell, that doesn’t cut it. You made your view very very clear.
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April 25, 2020 8:15am
- Classic Liberal
  
  ‘Wrong words’ is no apology at all. Try ‘Sorry, wrong concept altogether.’
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:37am
  - tf78
    
    To be fair she did actually apologize.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:57am
    - artemisia
      
      To be fair – this is not an apology or a retraction.
      
      Well it is a politician’s apology I suppose.
      
      Prediction – she will get many questions about small business in the next few months.
      
      “But I understand that the way I expressed some of my ideas was really hurtful to small business operators. I’m very sorry that I did that.”
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:29am
      - DeepBlue
        
        I hope she is very, very sorry on 19 September.
        
        9 1
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        April 25, 2020 1:32pm
- John Warren
  
  She’s right, she indeed used the wrong words. They were generated by ignorance, stupidity, and a rotten attitude.
  
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  April 25, 2020 12:43pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    How can she claim she used the wrong words when 6 months ago she was lecturing us all about some other word to illustrate some point? ACT and National played it over and over. She’s picking and choosing her dictionary.
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:37pm
Simon

Ardern government purchased MSM for $50 million. This is the first payment there will be more.

Its not just the propaganda that is the problem but also censorship. And the worse it gets the more censorship. For eg. Child poverty “statistics” can forget about timely release of these and they wont get reported.
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April 25, 2020 8:15am
- Paulus
  
  And Megan Woods thinks it is all about being Democratic !
  Pathetic – she should have kept her mouth shut for a change.
  Democracy is the rights of the same rules for all.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:31am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    I am eagerly awaiting her to sing on election night celebrating Labour’s clean sweep. As they say it ain’t over until Megan Woods sings.
    
    24 2
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    April 25, 2020 9:18am
    - gravedodger
      
      LoL, Sir.
      
      7 1
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      April 25, 2020 10:41am
  - PhilBest
    
    The “centre right” needs to learn to weaponize government power when they get their turn. Then the left might think twice about what they set up.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:38am
  - kowtow
    
    Democracy is many things , including due process and fairness , like what the oil and gas industry were given by Comrade Woods and the rest of the gang.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Democracy: Northland?
    
    6 2
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    April 25, 2020 10:49am
- tf78
  
  Someone on BFD this morning said the government is planning to legislate to enforce LEVEL 2 social distancing rules as the lock down contravenes our rights. Can any one shed any light on this.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:44am
  - Luke Piewalker
    
    @ tf78 … lost me at BFD
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:00am
    - tf78
      
      No one here seemed to be up at that time, be fair.
      
      2 1
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      April 25, 2020 10:59am
  - Hollyfield
    
    It’s reported on Stuff: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121248334/coronavirus-government-mulls-special-covid19-law-to-enforce-alert-level-2
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:07am
    - Ruahine
      
      So the Epidemic Response Committee who questioned smart alec David Parker about the Alert Levels legality were correct.
      Thanks Simon Bridges and David Seymour.
      However doing the governments work for them yet again.
      
      10 1
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      April 25, 2020 11:41am
    - John Warren
      
      I saw that last night. Welcome to the police state. Fucking hell.
      
      9 1
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      April 25, 2020 12:45pm
  - Ruahine
    
    I believe that much of what has been happening definitely convenes the Bill of Rights. But you will not get any traction in our Courts.
    
    23 1
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    April 25, 2020 9:08am
    - fernglas
      
      You won’t because even if the rights are breached, those rights are subject to justified limitations, so they are not absolute but can be abrogated where it is reasonable. I doubt that the current restrictions, which have been imposed by the D-G of Health under powers in the Health Act, would be seen as unreasonable
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:14am
  - Inandout
    
    tf78, I think you will find our iwi mates will simply ignore this crap, and in this respect I admire their disdain for official rules.
    
    14 1
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    April 25, 2020 9:57am
    - Sacha
      
      And I think that it won’t be long before the rest of us start making up our own rules as well.
      
      5 1
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      April 25, 2020 12:54pm
  - notreadyet
    
    Reported in dare i say it , Stuffed
    
    6 1
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    April 25, 2020 10:09am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Tywford is organising a factory to make 2,000,000 2 meter Social Distance Sticks. (When sharpened keep away from children.)
    
    14 1
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    April 25, 2020 10:52am
    - John Warren
      
      I know where to shove one.
      
      3 1
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      April 25, 2020 12:46pm
- burt
  
  You spelt poverdy wrong.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:50am
  - igm
    
    Burt: Have you heard the Ardern-appointed Commissioner of Police, he has “Communidies” also!
    Seems these lefties have diction problems with “T”, or is it woke?
    
    33 3
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    April 25, 2020 8:53am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Do as the PM says and speak as the PM speaks. This is the new Covid-19 fashion. Also it is cool to say “Jacinda is my hero”. I am now waiting for Audrey Not So Young’s puff piece about Jacinda’s heroism in World War II.
      
      44 1
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      April 25, 2020 9:21am
      - John Warren
        
        Jacinda scored 38 under par 34, and 11 holes in one, in her very first game of golf ever, you know.
        
        Or am I confusing my socialist dictators?
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:48pm
- CJames
  
  That she made her apology on Facebook tells you all you need to know. There is a real world out there, far away from computer screens, and people need to start living in it.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:28am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Facebook is a leftist hellhole. Twitter and Reddit are probably worse. They’re all prone to group think and if they get enough approval, they win the ‘argument’. Even if it’s just in their own head.
    She posts to Facebook so that all the women who run on emotion and not facts (And a not insignificant numbers of Simps) that browse FB can give it a thumbs up and make themselves feel all virtuous.
    Sadly during this lockdown I’ve been browsing FB too much. I need to figure how to inject bleach into my eyes to get rid of fawning on the worst PM we have ever had.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:55am
    - James Stephenson
      
      I empathise Brian. It is though, freaking hilarious, to see the way mid-50’s blokes react when you call them “fangirls”.
      
      9 1
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      April 25, 2020 11:02am
    - John Warren
      
      Occasionally I follow a link to Twitter and then not long after I find that I need to go outside and take a breath of fresh air. It really is a dreadful hellhole, a very nasty environment.
      
      Never looked at Reddit, although my teenage son keeps babbling at me about stuff he’s seen in “sub-Reddits” for this and that. It sounds like it might not be as toxic as Twitter, although I’m only going on what he talks about.
      
      Facebook, great for my wife to keep up with friends and family, but again, too much time there can be very counter-productive.
      
      5 1
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      April 25, 2020 12:52pm
    - Sacha
      
      Do you actually go to her page? Really?
      I get ‘shares’ and promptly delete them, and ‘snooze’ the sender for 30 days.
      Most of my ‘friends’ are apolitically rightish , but I’ve got a couple who are still sending out anti-Trump memes, and adoring international articles about Ardern. I ‘hide’ their posts without reading them.
      
      4 1
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      April 25, 2020 1:04pm
    - Paulus
      
      Easy – I have never done any social media crap- they are too invasive.
      So up your Twittered Facebook.
      
      2 1
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      April 25, 2020 1:39pm
theoldbloke

On this special day when we remember those who gave their lives for freedom from Tyranny.

We face another tyranny. This time from the 4th Estate as they peruse their agendas. Yesterday the free world was bombarded with a manufactured story about Trump. BBC, Aljazerra, and all the Usual American media. Plus may I add the NZ “”repeater”media.

I refer to the Trump “suggests injecting disinfectant”.

Its sad to see Journalists are so Trump obsessed that in the recent 1 hour briefing including a report on t Corono virus testing.
Journalists dont share the important information that Heat, Humidity and sunlight have severe effects on the virus survival.
From the whole briefing they snip a question from the President after the briefing, distort his words and publish the headline

Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment.

As always watch the footage and make your own judgements
Skip to about minute 22.
In my view he didnt suggest injecting
But make up your own mind.

Interesting isnt it that so many media used the same talkpoint? Even Aljazerah
Do they all share the same journalist??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b16H9Srwdew

The only outlet I could find that was more honest was
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486816-trump-injecting-disinfectant-media-fail/
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April 25, 2020 8:16am
- Steve James
  
  This has been happening since even before President Trump was sworn in. The slobering love fest the media had for Obama completely reversed for President Trump. How he puts up with it is anyones guess. It’s the most disgraceful thing I have witnessed in my entire life.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:44am
  - Unity
    
    It says a lot about Trump’s character that he has put up with a hostile Press for his entire ‘reign’. Whenever I see Trump’s name mentioned in an article I skip to something else. I have never ever heard one good word spoken about him since before he came to power. I don’t like the man but I definitely like what he does for America and just wish we had someone with his strength of character to get our country on the right path. I bet he would get rid of everything racist right from the start and start treating us all the same.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:00am
    - John Warren
      
      The thing with Trump, love him or hate him, is, he’s not afraid of anything. There are no sacred cows. He gets stuck right in, with America’s best interests driving him. Witness Iran, Chinese trade, the WHO.
      
      Cindy does nothing unless it benefits her narcissistic self, her media image, and her long-term UN ambitions. She’s as false as a Groucho moustache, and as shallow as a puddle in a drought.
      
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      April 25, 2020 12:57pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Journalists dont share the important information that Heat, Humidity and sunlight have severe effects on the virus survival.
  
  Correct. So Trump just wants to know how to get sunlight and disinfectant inside the body where it will act on the virus.
  The man’s a ~~morongenius.~~
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:06am
- OTGO
  
  Whatever you do, do not click on any and all of the biased anti trump articles on Stuff or The Herald or any other MSM outlet in NZ. You are only encouraging them.
  
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  April 25, 2020 2:04pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Styx has a good take on this: https://www.bitchute.com/video/BQ-Dlpd1nBo/
  
  1. Trump isn’t a wordsmith, his thoughts can easily be misinterpreted by the msm that wants to bring him down.
  
  2. But basically, yes: we do use many types of toxic drugs and radiation in treatments of disease. Musing on how light and ‘something like’ disinfectant could be used in the body is perfectly valid.
  
  3. Trump’s only mistake has been saying it was meant as sarcasm.
  
  Trump backing down from valid questions because of crazy media shitstorm? Unusual.
  
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  April 25, 2020 2:13pm
kiwitoffee

‘Alarming PTSD rates for Maori military personnel’ says the Radio NZ website this ANZAC Day morning.

Yet the general narrative we are told – especially in our schools and museums – is that Maori were (and are) a fine warrior race, if race is the right term.

Can both of these claims be true?

I mention this in passing as I commemorate with gratitude all those who served to protect us in past military conflicts.
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April 25, 2020 8:16am
- David Garrett
  
  kiwit: I have no knowledge of PTSD rates, but I do know the Maori Battalion suffered much higher casualties per head in WW II than the rest of the NZEF. Various reasons are given, from them being sent into the most dangerous situations, to their being tremendously keen and volunteering to go where others didn’t wish to.
  
  The more academic reason is that they felt they had to earn citizenship by demonstrating loyalty to the king and Empire by deeds of valour. If that really is the reason, it’s very sad. I prefer to think they were just very keen warriors and so volunteered for the hottest engagements.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:40am
  - kiwitoffee
    
    DG
    So it is possible that both claims are true. Thanks.
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:52am
  - Steve James
    
    David, I have agreed with almost all of your opinions up untill now. There is is/was no such thing as “volunteering for the hottest engagements” Soldiers went where they were sent. Logistics in the military are difficult enough without cherry picking personel based on race. Training, weapons, supplies and transport must be considered in minute detail.
    If you were refering to Crete of course there are some stories involving court marshalls of New Zealand soldiers torturing German soldiers and showing disregard for civillians during combat. I viewed it on either Discovery or History channel about ten years ago. A young German corporal was crusified attached to a door/doorway according to the doco I saw. A Kiwi soldier who just happened to be Maori was charged, served some time and was released.
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:59am
    - Jack5
      
      Where did you get the bullshit about NZ troops crucifying a German corporal in Crete?
      
      That is appalling rubbish and lies to post on Anzac Day. If you are one of those idiots who glorify the civilian-murdering Waffen SS, then shame on you.
      
      NZ troops were too busy fighting for their lives on Crete for that.
      
      Atrocities in Crete were committed by the German occupation troops. Too often that occurred in countries occupied by the Germans.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:20am
      - Steve James
        
        Were you there Jack5? You must be getting on a bit by now. Thank you for your service.
        
        I commented on a doco from what’s usually a credible source and hence believe it has some merrit. The History and Discovery channels don’t appear to have an ‘axe to grind’
        I have since looked it up and there is official record. look up Court Martial NZ or WW2 war crimes NZ and see for yourself. It’s interesting when we hear things from the perspective of the enemy. Here’s one link:
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=383857
        Note: I mean no disrespect to my brothers in the military. In my opinion we shouldn’t ignore harch truths, otherwise bad mistakes will certainly be repeated.
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:34pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        The Maori Battalion were well known for being out of control and committing atrocities.
        
        That guy who didn’t get a VC, why do you think that might have been?
        
        And Lt Col Awatere? Ngata opposed him taking command of the Maori Battalion, and the reputation for atrocities continued.
        
        War is hell, atrocities take place on both sides. Not sure I would have been any different. But lets not pretend that it doesn’t.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:58pm
      - Jack5
        
        Steve James: I don’t see any reference to Crete in the report to which you link.
        
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        April 25, 2020 4:24pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Steve J: Well, I have read all the major histories on Crete, and never read anything about atrocities committed by the Allied troops…and certainly none on civilians. Your tale would seem to be contradicted by the well established fact that New Zealanders are apparently still to this day very warmly welcomed there.
      
      There are certainly documented cases of atrocities by German troops on the civilian population.
      
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      April 25, 2020 12:15pm
      - Steve James
        
        Hey David, I might have the location wrong regarding the nailing to the doorframe but the doco was most compelling. I have served in our military (3 years, not deployed) and fully support combat soldiers whereever they come from. Here’s a link regerding Africa WW2.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=383857
        And sure there are lots of documented cases of atrocities by German troops mainly because German troops were actually writted about all day every day. Remember they fought against most of the world. Under stressful situaions some soldiers do bad things. It’s a sad reality of war.
        I really wish I hadn’t bought into this on ANZAC Day, it’s bad form.
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:43pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’ve never read or heard of NZ atrocities in Crete. In western desert campaign and Italy, yes. The Crucifixion yarn sounds invented. Some of those TV ‘history’ shows really are a load of cobblers.
      
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      April 25, 2020 12:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Mind you, read Vasili: the Lion of Crete about how Dudley Perkins had to deal with some German captured by Cretan guerrillas…
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:28pm
    - John Warren
      
      My grandfather, born in 1912, was in Crete in 1941. He was captured by the Germans in May ’41, spent four months in a POW camp, then he and a companion escaped with help from partisans and was hidden by villagers until they were taken off by a Greek submarine in November.
      
      He and that old mate returned to Crete in 1974, and revisited all their old haunts and the people they knew: the partisans who assisted them, the villagers who hid them, etc. We have both his war diaries and the diary of that three month visit in ’74.
      
      Due to that particular connection I’ve always been interested in that campaign and over the years I have read every book on it that has ever crossed my path. Never ever seen any mention of that kind of behaviour.
      
      But Discovery and the History Channel threw fact and reality out years ago in favour of sensationalism and conspiracy. Anything you watch there isn’t worth the videotape it was recorded on.
      
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      April 25, 2020 1:06pm
  - Scott
    
    Agree with David Garrett about the Maori Battalion. My understanding is that they were some of the meanest, toughest sons of bitches in the whole New Zealand army and the enemy was scared of them. The Maori Battalion served with great distinction in the war.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:06am
    - marleybob
      
      They won the war single handedly right…. The other 138000 were back up right…
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:49am
      - kowtow
        
        That is certainly the Media Party narrative.
        
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        April 25, 2020 10:08am
      - Komata
        
        Marlybob@0849
        
        Re: ‘They won the war single handedly right…’
        
        No, no, no, The Americans ‘…Won the war single handedly…’; at least according to John Wayne, Kirk Douglas , Stever McQueen et al, and , inter alia, the entire American psyche.
        
        So they would have us believe (and actually believe themselves)
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:39am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      Scott, they were a very good battalion in a very exceptional division. The higher casualties would be because a lot of Maori volunteers would have asked to go that battalion, so it would have had higher replacements and full strength battalions would more likely be put into service over the units that had less manpower available. They were also heavily mauled at Monte Casino fighting over the railway station. That battle caused much damage to the kiwis. Since the war, much has been made of the Battalion, but a lot of it is exaggerated. They were very fine soldiers in the division that the country made sure were as well equiped and manned as we could make it.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:04am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      My Dad served in 21st Battalion alongside the 28th Maori Battalion. He said the Germans feared the Maoris and greatly respected them as fighters.
      Dad had a lot of mates in 28th during and after the War. He played the violin and some of the Maori boys found a violin in an Italian mansion that had been used by the German officers. They gave it to Dad and he played it until he died in 2004. I still have the violin and will pass it on to my children. It was made by 2 Italian brothers in 1815.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘found’ a violin.
        Many New Zealand homes still have pieces of WWII loot tucked away.
        Some has even been returned:
        https://static1.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2564815/statue-returned-to-abbey-of-monte-cassino
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:01am
      - tf78
        
        lastmanstanding – what a wonderful story, you must be so proud.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:03am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Ah yes, the fine NZ military tradition of “foraging”.
        
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        April 25, 2020 2:01pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Two stories on Nat radio this morning that may shed light:
    
    1. Some Maori did a ritual of blindfolded young men being spun around and jumping into water. Those that came up facing the sun would return the others wouldn’t. Everyone seems to have believed it and it ‘proved true’.
    
    If you really believe something like that, how would you act in battle? How would you recover from an injury or illness?
    
    So superstition could well have influenced behaviour and wellbeing.
    
    2. Another story was about ww2 coastal watch by v young men all alone, no defence, sent to terrible places without adequate supplies. We were told that Maori and PI men treated far worse and paid much less. Thus far more likely to die of disease.
    
    So racism another factor back then, yes.
    
    But then the guy reporting this ruined the sympathy by claiming it’s all just as bad now: unequal pay and health. Unequal pay for same work is illegal now, but he didn’t seem to know that.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:52am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      I don’t believe Maori would have been paid less. PI soldiers I could believe, but not Maori. Sounds very fishy and made up to me.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:07am
    - David Garrett
      
      Classic: Yes, I heard and enjoyed that piece this morning…and turned the radio off at the same time you did, and for the same reason.
      
      That said, the treatment of Maori soldiers post WW II was a fucking disgrace. I have been told – I hope someone is able either to verify or discount this – that in the farm ballots after the war for returned soldiers, Maori were not entitled to be in the ballot, no matter what their pre-war experience might have been. If that is true, it is one of the most disgraceful parts of our history.
      
      And anyone who says there wasn’t racism in other parts of our society well into the 70’s is either ignorant or a wanker. I am 62, and I can remember seeing To Let ads in the Herald which said “No dogs, no Maoris”. That would have been as late as the very early 70’s.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:18am
      - Tall Man
        
        Not wanting to start a running battle over this but my understanding was that to enter the ballot you had to have no interest in any land and many maori did have part ownership in family owned land and were recorded on the title.
        
        Now that may be incorrect but it seemed logical to me.
        
        Also, within the area I hail from there are still many family owned maori farms that are leased out because the owners have little interest in the land, just the money the lease provides and while that may be an urban legend to some I can assure you I have seen first hand the poor state of family farms where most cannot be bothered working the farm and the others refuse to do so as they don’t want to enhance the value for the others.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:52am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        After WWI Farm ballots were for returned Pakeha soldiers… justified (at the time) on the grounds that Maori soldiers were returning to their tribal lands.
        
        Some of the land those men got proved near impossible to break-in… (lack of fertiliser, Depression years).
        
        After WW 2 the ballot was open for men with previous farm experience. In theory, Maori and Pakeha had equal opportunity of getting a resettlement block…. In practice, a long and complicated story…
        
        If you have a few hours spare:
        
        The economic rehabilitation of Maori military veterans
        https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/Documents/WT/wt_DOC_137836128/Wai%202500%2C%20A248.pdf
        
        Chaps 9-12 tell of the Post WW2 outcomes
        
        Chaps 6 and 8 lay a lot of the background.
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:23pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        David: yes, racism is a fucking disgrace, which is why I don’t want NZ to fall into this ever-expanding trap of identity politics.
        
        Nat Radio is completely going along with it, promoting it, and NZ will suffer.
        
        Those of us who want all Kiwis to have equal opportunities but think equal outcomes are unrealistic and unfair can forget it. The Socialists are in charge now.
        
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        April 25, 2020 12:56pm
      - artemisia
        
        My two Maori uncles returned from WWII. One returned to the family farm and worked it with his parents. The other was granted his own farm in the ballot. Both were married and the family farm could not support them all.
        
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        April 25, 2020 5:39pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        Unfortunately that was true, David.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:58pm
  - Wangas Feral
    
    My father, a WWII veteran who was brigaded with 28 often said one of the reasons 28 batn has such high casualty rates was that they had a tendency to get reckless in the heat of combat. It did mean they took objectives and succeeded in attacks but often at some cost.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:53am
    - David Garrett
      
      Wangas: Yes, their own battalion history acknowledges that some of the reason for their high casualty rate was their “keenness”, meaning they pressed on to try and take objectives where other units would have withdrawn to fight another day.
      
      It also needs to be acknowledged that the Maori’s record regarding prisoners was not good – while they didn’t eat any, they tended to treat Germans as their forbears would have done 100 years earlier.
      
      Lt. Colonel Peta Awatere, later convicted of the murder of his girlfriend’s lover, was apparently particularly bad, and at the very least did nothing to stop his men shooting prisoners.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:47am
  - notreadyet
    
    They were naturally a warrior people, their fearlessness got them into trouble, still does
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:13am
  - Manu-Rau
    
    David, I normally agree with most of your posts but do have to disagree with this one. My comments here relate to your posts, and a number of the responses below.
    
    Before proceeding, I should explain that I curated a major exhibition on the Maori Battalion for the Army Museum in 1988. This involved extensive research, including sources which had not previously been covered, and in some cases covered up. I came away with a very good understanding of the Battalion and its story.
    
    While it is true that the Maori Battalion suffered heavier casualties per capita than any other unit, they didn’t take part in more actions, or more heavy actions, than any other. There were a number of reasons for their heavy losses, the key ones of which were – unfortunately – ill discipline in battle and a tendency to lose control in contact. The attack at Cassino was a good example.
    
    There was another issue, which has largely gone unreported, of traditional inter-tribal rivalry manifesting itself, particularly in North Africa. At El Alamein, the Battalion was used as the reserve battalion for a two-brigade attack (ie, two brigades advancing side-by-side, with the Maori Battalion spread across the entire rear of the attacking brigades, with two MB companies advancing side-by-side behind each brigade. This is a most unusual deployment for a reserve battalion: indeed, I have never heard of it happening elsewhere. Normally the reserve battalion would be kept intact, and deploy behind the brigade that had the more difficult objectives or was likely to suffer the heaviest casualties. The reason it was done at El Alamein (which, as you may be aware, was a night attack) was to avoid the companies deliberately ‘fragging’ each other in the darkness.
    
    And for the posters below, yes, there were atrocities. These included:
    – a Cretan policeman and a number of civilians being bayonetted at the 42nd Street counterattack on Crete.
    – Italians not being allowed to surrender and/or being killed after they had surrendered during the night attack against El Mrier ridge.
    – A German field hospital being shot up (and ambulances being set alight, and wounded German soldiers being thrown into them) at Minqar Qaim.
    – Italian POWs being shot, bayonetted and thrown off the cliff at Takrouna.
    – German POWs being crucified with their own bayonets at San Silvestro. (Yes, this did happen. Evidence was provided to the Red Cross, who complained to Churchill.) In the Battalion’s next action (in February 1945), after LTCOL Pita Awatere (Donna’s father) ordered that no prisoners were to be taken, LT Huata (Donna’s father-in-law) shot a group of Germans through the head as each tried to exit a cellar to surrender. When Churchill found out, he demanded that Awatere be court-martialled. Freyberg refused, but immediately ordered Awatere back to NZ. He was replaced by MAJ (later Sir) James Henare.
    
    WG Stevens makes an interesting observation in the Official History of HQ 2NZEF. In the chapter on ‘Discipline’, he notes that unfortunately soldiers from the Maori Battalion were responsible for more than 50% of the disciplinary breaches, despite being only 4% of the force total.
    
    When the Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment was formed in the early 1960s, there was a suggestion that a new Maori Battalion be raised. Significantly the suggestion was quickly, and quietly, killed off by the senior leadership of the Army, all of whom had served during WW2.
    
    Sorry to bring this up on Anzac Day, but the issues were raised by others, and I thought I should respond with some facts.
    
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    April 25, 2020 11:49pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Very interesting indeed. Will this be included in NZs new history curriculum currently being developed by some academics.
      
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      April 26, 2020 8:54am
Doc Holliday

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Just when you think the Grand Master of Morons must be running short on Mad Ideas, he recommends Imbibing and Injecting Bleach.

It’s part of his Magicking Away the Virus.
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April 25, 2020 8:21am
- RightNow
  
  Reporter: Just to clarify: You’re not encouraging Americans to inject disinfectant?
  
  Trump: No. Of course not… It was said sarcastically. It was put in the form of a question to a group of extraordinary hostile people. Namely, the fake news media.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:31am
  - fernglas
    
    Perhaps you should look at the press conference video so you can see what he actually did and said, rather than recounting what he said he did. The man is a laughing stock of the world, and his apologists aren’t far behind
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:02am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Ah, the ‘I was being sarcastic’ excuse. Bigly weak excuse. Also, doesn’t square with his deluded cultists raving on about his scientific insight.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:11am
    - Alex13
      
      Well said.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:12am
  - tf78
    
    Rightnow Trump plays them like a fiddle – it’s great to watch. They’re so ready to be outraged they never listen properly.
    
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    April 25, 2020 11:05am
    - Doc Holliday
      
      The man is a gibbering imbecile and if you can’t see that you are beyond help.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:14am
      - marcw
        
        Your comment says more about you than tf Doc – perhaps you could heal thyself.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:17am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Seriously that is total crap. I watched it carefully. He was not being sarcastic.
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:52pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Hydrogen Peroxide A Potential Treatment For Coronavirus Infection?
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/hydrogen-peroxide-a-potential-treatment-for-coronavirus-infection/ar-BB12qktc
  
  Ultraviolet blood irradiation: Is it time to remember “the cure that time forgot”?
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/
  
  https://youtu.be/wZRKObFlxNI
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:32am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Interesting that MSN just now removed its article about the Hydrogen Peroxide.. . Got to keep up the Orange Man Bad narrative I guess 🤨
    
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    April 25, 2020 8:52am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      https://www.livetradingnews.com/surviving-the-coronavirus-disease-how-hydrogen-peroxide-works-172241.html
      
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      April 25, 2020 8:58am
    - tf78
      
      They’re probably just worried that some of their sheeple will try injecting it straight out of the bottle.
      
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      April 25, 2020 9:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We know who the moron is
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:41am
- kevn
  
  @doc… Do dig deeper than an MSM take on his comment.
  Do yourself a favour.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He’s too busy eating Tide Pods
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:15am
Maggie Pie

I will remember him.

My great grandad was a soldier in WW2 (1939 – 45)
Mum gave me his medals for safekeeping. There’s two gold-color stars and two big round silver ones. All hanging from different striped ribbons. Makes me feel sooo proud to have them on this day.

My partner went down to the letterbox earlier this morning. Came back in and said “Still no mailer from Briscoes”.

Honestly 🙁
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April 25, 2020 8:23am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: Nice comment there about your Great-grandad…you must be much younger than I have imagined you.
  
  Do you know you are entitled to wear your ancestor’s medals on ANZAC Day? You might need to check to make sure, but I’m pretty sure you must wear them on your RIGHT lapel…those who were actually awarded the medals wear them on the LEFT. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.
  
  Good upon you young lady.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:35am
  - Lizziep
    
    I had both my fathers and Mothers medals which I wore with great pride. I have passed them onto my son and they will go to his son. One year when we went to the Anzac parade I pinned them on him I think he was 4 at the time so it was a big occasion for him to be there with the medals. Very proud of both my parents serving.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:10am
    - Tall Man
      
      Unfortunately my elder sister feels our father’s service medals are for her and her alone and has decreed that they will go to her grandson rather than my own sons or my nephew who is a serving officer in the Australian Air Force.
      
      My father refused his medals for a number of his own reasons yet my sister felt they were hers to claim after his death without reference to either my mother or her siblings and yes, we won’t forget.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:44am
- Wangas Feral
  
  If you want to know the medals (and I can guess what they are), you can find out online. There are pics of the faces and obverses, as well as the ribbons.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:57am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hiyaa Wangas.
    I have the medals in my hand now. There is a star that sez ‘The Africa Star’ on a yellow and red ribbon, the other one sez ‘The 1939-1945 Star’ on a grey, red & blue ribbon.. Then the two round silver ones, one has a Lion with his paw standing on a roosters head with a red, blue & white ribbon, the other sez ‘For service to New Zealand 1939 – 1945’ and that has a black and white ribbon.
    Is that what you guessed they were?
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:31am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      So everyone who served pretty much got the ‘two round silver ones’, the War Medal and the NZ War Service Medal. Those on ‘active service’, in defined operational areas, got the 1939-45 Star, and the specific Star for the theatre in which they served. Your relative got the Africa Star, which means he served some time in the Greece/Crete and/or North African campaigns in 1940-43.
      If you are interested, you should be able to get his file from here:
      http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/accessing-military-service-records.htm
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:09am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Thank you for that info MM.
        All i have is an old leather-bound photo album packed with photos of my GGF while serving overseas. Also a big framed phto of the red cross ship he came home in.. There are also two big bullets that have intricately engraved scrollwork and the word ‘Egypt’ at the base.
        
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        April 25, 2020 1:38pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  They will be the 1939-54 Star, another campaign star (Africa, Italy or Pacific), the War Medal 1939-45, and the New Zealand War Service Medal. Check the ribbons here:
  http://medals.nzdf.mil.nz/category/h/index.html#ww2
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:15am
G152

I was Navy, brother was Army.
Two brother in laws were both Army.
Go into an RSA nowadays and its all social members.
Thats a result of the older members not wanting the ‘new’ members.
Japan Occupation Force, K Force, Malaya and Vietnam were all refused entry at one time or another.
Which is why many of us didn’t join
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April 25, 2020 8:24am
- Nickc2
  
  My RSA would not survive if it wasn’t for associate members. When Clubs NZ became involved with NZRSA (the RSA’s parent body), it was decreed that all RSAs would admit associate members. Some RSA’s broke away from NZRSA and are now going it on their own so to speak. Whilst I don’t agree with Clubs NZ having anything to do with RSAs, I can see that associate membership is necessary in order to survive.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:15am
- CJames
  
  G152 My Dad did 25 years in the Air Force – he never had interest in the RSA or even ANZAC services. I also work with people who did their military service (Army or Navy) relatively recently, yet also show no interest in either. So your views aren’t unusual
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:18am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A lot of Navy and Air Force veterans did not join the RSA after the war – too Army dominated.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:18am
    - Nickc2
      
      Take my word for it mikenmildagain, nothing has changed. Even today, shiny arses (Army desk jockeys) are still in control.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:21am
  - G152
    
    Have to admit in 2016 when I had a touch of the cancer the lady from the RSA spent time with me on the ward and brought me reading material.
    Only contact ever
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:28am
    - Komata
      
      G152@1028
      
      I had a similar experience; I had ‘done time’ many years previously as a ‘Civi’ with DF (long story) and thought little of it, yet when in hospital for major repair work, the RSA somehow found out about my past ‘associations’ and a lady turned up with a small pack of biscuits and a kind word.
      
      Very surprising and greatly appreciated.
      
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      April 25, 2020 11:51am
kevn

@Simon… Control comrades.
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April 25, 2020 8:25am
Simon

Trump is the only guy holding the world together. Without Trump the only outcome is war.

As governments lose control over economies “we came, we saw, he died” becomes their only alternative to Trump.
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April 25, 2020 8:26am
oldpark

“Lest We Forget”. After tuning into TVNZ or even TV3 to see the Anzac Commerations and remembering our War Dead . Sadly not to be . All i could see was some claptrap on both channels TVNZ and TV3 nothing to do with NZs and Australias’ special day.
Yet on an an Australian TV Channel the whole memories of Anzacs was covered completely .Just carrying on the history of the many many years of acknowledging our brave soldiers and fallen dead .
No ifs. no buts,no maybes, no excuses of who or what made the devastating decision to almost completely shun the very special day for Anzacs. In fact our birthright . Bloody embarrassment and an indictment of who or what is pulling the strings of our traditions and way of life in NZ .
Let us make sure that the terrible decision to almost completely shun any type of live Television or Anzac commerations should never be repeated .
Better still wonder why we could not have had a live hookup of all the Anzac commerations in Australia. After all we may have gotten a small return of the recent $50,000,000 Million Dollars given to Television Channels. What ever for,when at least a compromise of NZs being denied the Traditional Anzac Remembrances we could have received the superb brilliant coverage coming in Live from Australia.
Let us make sure that maybe the goal of NZ being the Socialist Republic of the South Pacific and all remembrances like the one we were denied and never had, does never get repeated .Just saying. “Lest We Forget”.
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April 25, 2020 8:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Māori Television has had the best ANZAC Day content for a number of years, and this year is no exception.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes, I’m not sure how anyone could have missed that over the years.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:20am
- Nickc2
  
  It’s all about being anti America and remembering what influence $50m plus can buy.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:22am
- bruceavon
  
  Its all on Maori TV. Has been for ages. Some great documentaries on later today.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:55am
greybeard

I see that some sad sicko has downticked every comment here.
Pathetic.
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April 25, 2020 8:31am
- kevn
  
  @grey… Don’t give the downticker clown oxygen. Ignore them.
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:50am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Perhaps it would be a good thing if the login names of both up and down tickers were shown like on BFD
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:12am
- igm
  
  Possibly the lefty progeny of a conscientious objector, Labour once wantiing these creeps recognised . . . suppose one day that may occur.
  I feel strongly today for the old boys in war veterans’ homes, who every Anzac Day are visited by members of our armed forces, it being all many of them see.
  Thanks Ardern for your show of power . . .”May it be gone soon”.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:28am
Grant

Well worth a read.
https://www.aier.org/article/the-world-will-backlash-in-mostly-good-ways/
G
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April 25, 2020 8:32am
Simon

What’s the plan?

The government will borrow and piss away billions to make itself as insolvent as the general population 12 months later. There will be no V shape recovery. Too much debt too much incompetence.

NZ carried the shit weight of the state with property bubble, debt bubble & open door immigration. The funny money Marxist party is over.
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April 25, 2020 8:34am
Maggie Pie

I see where President Trump is getting slammed on twitter for sarcastically suggesting “…that injecting disinfectant or bleach could be a cure for coronavirus” LOL!!!

My partner was wondering if the experts from Wet&Forget might start on developing something? 😀
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April 25, 2020 8:39am
- MCos
  
  What President Trump said was:
  “I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets inside the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.”
  He wasn’t being sarcastic, but he was clearly talking off the top of his head. He shouldn’t be saying shit like that because it’s preposterous and he’s not talking to a bunch of his mates at the pub.
  It was the same when he got a bee in his bonnet about the hydroxychloroquine miracle cure that turned out to be a dud.
  He’s carrying on like this and he’s supposed to be leading the country.
  America has the best medical people in the world and he’s not one of them.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:17am
  - lifesgood
    
    Hydroxychloroquine isn’t a dud. It has helped a lot of people including, it is rumoured, Boris.
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:31am
    - fernglas
      
      The FDA has just said that not only is it a dud, but it is potentially dangerous to people with e.g. heart problems
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:17am
    - Fisiani
      
      Trump gets his news from Fox news . Spend 3 minutes watching this if you want to know what unhinged means
      
      https://youtu.be/NAh4uS4f78o
      
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      April 25, 2020 6:58pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Of course he was being sarcastic, silly!
    The President himself even admitted it was just something he said to wind up the stupid biased reporters. LOL!!
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:38am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Um, he was making shit up both times. You can tell when he is lying, his mouth opens and shuts and anyone listening suddenly feels stupider.
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:22am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:21am
      - Tall Man
        
        That’s ardern silly boy, Trump not always although I don’t really care.
        
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        April 25, 2020 11:32am
    - doggone7
      
      You got it Maggie Pie! There’s never any BS and ‘fake news’ comes out of his mouth.
      
      Warning to all: I am just being sarcastic.
      
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      April 25, 2020 1:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trump was having fun with the non humorous fake news reporters. They took the bait. Hook, line, sinker and most of his arm LOL
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:19am
  - doggone7
    
    The best comedians are clever, intelligent and have a bit of whimsy about them.
    
    Trump having fun with the reporters yesterday and today and on other occasions recently?
    
    Of course he was having fun. He told us so. Just like the 13 big boy bully who smashes a puny 9 year old in the back on the way home from school: “I was just playing … I was just having fun … we were just playing round … I just tapped him … there was a bee on his back and I thought it might sting him so I just swiped it off …”
    
    So 52,300 Americans have died and the best part of a million have the virus and the head man is joking around having a bit of fun about it with reporters? Anyone with a semblance of a brain or a touch of humanity would say that shows he’s a cretin.
    
    Do you seriously believe he was joking around? And the reporters taking his actual words as meaning what he said are dummies for ‘being sucked in’?
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:44pm
Yvette

Has anyone yet seen any information on covid-19 infectiousness?
Presumably the moment you are infected, you can by contact pass it on, but of the various definitions of “recovered”, one is that you are recovered 10 days after the onset of symptoms.
How long of that period are you infectious?

And a further definition is that if symptoms last longer than ten days, you are considered recovered after 48 hours of being free of them, so are you still infectious for 10 days, or is it longer?

And what of the person who displays no noticeable symptoms, how long are they deemed to be able the past the infection on?

So far as I can see, all the information is about recovery but little definite is said of actual infection times – infectiousness, infectability, or whatever the right word is (see? – hasn’t been discussed yet enough to know what to exactly call it)
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April 25, 2020 8:41am
- Sacha
  
  Until they can do the whole ‘test’n trace’ thing it’s not certain. They can only deduce from what is known about other viruses. It is known that the virus has circulated much more widely than the rate of infection would indicate. In one maternity unit in the UK every single patient had evidence of infection, but not one was ill.
  Dr John Campbell does a daily update on youtube, and he’s done a couple of sensible lectures about cross-infection. And mask wearing – what is effective and why. He takes his motor-cycling face scarf in his pocket to use as a mask when he goes to a likely infection source such as the supermarket.
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:32pm
MrTips

No Matthew, RW like me don’t support everything Trump does or says. RW like me have more time for Trump than people like you who contribute little to society, financially feed off the political spin machine no matter which way the wind blows and get made to write grovelling apology letters to make defamation go away. https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/1253735346786844674
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April 25, 2020 8:43am
- lifesgood
  
  I cannot fathom Hooton. I don’t think he can either. Runs with the hares, hunts with the hounds. Most of the time doesn’t make any sense and is given far too much oxygen. I never pay any attention to him now. As far as I’m concerned it’s a case of “he who pays the piper calls the tune”.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:30am
  - Nickc2
    
    He is a keyboard for hire. His ethics change to suit whoever is paying him.
    
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    April 25, 2020 2:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Captain Tom Tops the Hit Parade

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/apr/24/captain-tom-moore-becomes-oldest-artist-to-claim-uk-no-1-single
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April 25, 2020 8:46am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And especially for our downticker(s)
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcouA_oWsnU
  
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  April 25, 2020 8:49am
  - Lizziep
    
    What sort of a sick person are you downtick? How could anyone down tick this?
    
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    April 25, 2020 9:19am
  - Tall Man
    
    Wear those ticks with pride Maggy, it shows that your joy in life is superior to the hatred for others those of the left show on this blog.
    
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    April 25, 2020 11:28am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I don’t mind being down-ticked..
      better than not being noticed….
      
      (and as I’ve said before…. I’ve yet to be down-ticked into oblivion, tho’ I’ve gone into the pink once or twice)
      
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      April 25, 2020 2:33pm
- Tall Man
  
  Remarkable.
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:25am
dave_c_

I am now convinced this Covid situation is a Globally created situation. (I stop short of calling it a conspiracy theory yet, but every day as information becomes available, it is becoming harder not to call it so)
Have you ever noticed that the majority of countries all seem to be applying similar restrictions, strong arming the populace to remain home. . . .
It cannot be a coincidence that the UK and New Zealand (and god knows how many others) lockdown rules restrict attendants to both weddings and funerals to 10 individuals (as one example).
‘Orchestration’ springs to mind
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April 25, 2020 8:49am
- Ruahine
  
  We are living in a new Tyranny. It is quite clever and it is quite effective.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:14am
- pjay
  
  I agree – and I’m taken back to what might have been said between Dear Leader and the visits of Clinton, Podesta, Obama, Colbert … during their whirlwind trip to their “colonies” early on?
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:27am
- Doc Holliday
  
  Dave_c_
  
  Yeah, clearly the doctors in ICUs and the corpses carted away in army trucks are actors.
  
  TRUMP IS THE LIGHT!
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:02am
- quarterpack
  
  Or a simpler explanation might be that a lock down is the only tool we have to combat this virus, even though not a particularly effective one.
  
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  April 25, 2020 12:04pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    The primary tool for combatting the virus is the truth, and that is glaringly absent
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:31pm
Benedict Yu

On ANZAC Day I remember my grandfathers. My maternal grandfather was a Scot. He was deeply religious and refused to kill people. However he agreed to join bomb disposal. He was posted around the UK to disarm the large numbers of German bombs that failed to explode. It was a perilous job and many of his mates were vaporised.

My paternal grandfather was Australian. He was posted to Papua New Guinea to fight the Japanese. He was away from Australia for about 4 years. Unfortunately he was permanently traumatised. He died in 1975 at the age of 62.
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April 25, 2020 8:50am
Swifty

For 24hrs only – Pink Floyd Live At Pompeii

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m5yprC6_Zw
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April 25, 2020 8:53am
Apteryx

Wellington ratepayers will be funding restaurants and cafes by $10 for every meal delivered for the next fortnight. https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/121249958/wellington-eateries-will-get-10-per-meal-delivered-to-help-them-through-covid19-level-3

With so much pent-up demand for takeaways, I imagine their production ability will be the limiting factor, not the cost of delivery. In any case, how much will it cost Wreda/WellingtonNZ to administer each claim? How will any of the claims be verified? Isn’t this just economically-illiterate feel-good silliness, using ratepayers’ money?

And while on the subject, doesn’t anyone else think it odd that the PM should use her office to slag off a legitimate business (Uber Eats) and exhort people to use its competitors?

If restaurants don’t want to pay the fees that Uber Eats charges, there are several alternatives (including running their own deliveries). Competition sorts out the price/benefit points, Jacinda, not central control. Until KiwiEats is legislated to be the only provider, that is.
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April 25, 2020 9:12am
- Harriet
  
  There was an issue in Sydney with Uber eats[i’m pretty sure it is them] where central city cafes in apartment block areas were selling household items to help walk in customers out, and to help themselves survive as the city was near deserted.
  
  Uber eats went straight out the next day and opened up a shop/delivery supply depo with household items — and then undercut all the cafes — some who I guess were there own trading partners.
  
  They don’t care about anything what soever – other than clipping the ticket. It may be profitable and legal to do so but I now think it is a shit model of anything. I wouldn’t use it.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:46am
- JackRabbit
  
  Uber Taxi – Yes
  
  Uber Eats – No. Having done food delivery, a high standard of ethics is required. You are adding someone else who is an unknown quantity into your food delivery cycle. Better to click and collect.
  
  Even before Covid-19 they would often be at our door, because more often than not they would get wrong house (shared driveway). Despite the fact we have the number on the door. This general inability to read was coupled with the drivers often being unkempt, and a less than hygienic car interior. I’m afraid that the sight of someone like that handling someone else’s bucket of KFC and soft serves, leaves me cold.
  
  Why would you have someone who does not have the same standards with regard to food handling, handle your food even without Covid-19?
  
  Especially when the cars were old enough that most probably didn’t have a cabin air filter. And even if they did, chances are it was not replaced annually.
  
  Most people are unaware their car even has a cabin air filter, or that it should be replaced annually and also unaware that unmaintained air conditioners and filters, car or home, are a breeding ground for bacteria and viruses.
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:05pm
The Proper Ghandi

If you’ve got a couple of hours to spend later on today, this is a good watch, ‘Hoaxed’. It’s about how the media control the thoughts and shape the opinions and attitudes of the public:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkogF9XD4QM&t=2405s
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April 25, 2020 9:13am
lastmanstanding

So what would Winston (Churchill) not the idiot Peters have done if had been PM of NZ at this time.
Interested in your comments.
I will post my humble opinion on GD tomorrow.
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April 25, 2020 9:14am
Maggy Wassilieff

The media seems to be giving scant attention to the fact that a second man has appeared in Court threatening to kill the Leader of the Opposition

Simon Bridges threatened: Man appears in Levin District Court charged with threatening to kill National Party leader
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327455

What the heck is going on?

Is there some concerted terrorist action being undertaken against Bridges?
Are we really to believe that 2 “lone wolves” by coincidence decided to threaten him?
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April 25, 2020 9:16am
- Poppa
  
  Lefties are wreckers & haters
  
  I have never met a lefty with a positive attitude
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:29am
- MCos
  
  People are fools to make death threats to politicians, or anyone else; let alone under their own name.
  I should imagine the PM on down receive a number of anonymous death threats anytime they say something controversial, as happens all the time.
  Fortunately in NZ political murders are unheard of apart from Ernie Abbot.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:33am
- backster
  
  It would be helpful and put a stop to most of this nonsense if the names of the perpetrators were published at first appearance.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:40am
- igm
  
  Have they not both been given bail?
  If it had been PTPM threatened they would be incarcerated.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:55am
Yvette

Twyford light rail
If on-going Government decisions now need to allow for covid-19, and having established the infection is sourced overseas, will Phil Twyford plans for Auckland Airport to CBD travel need the three current plans being investigated to be dumped, as they seem to have determined the dumping of earlier plans, and can social distancing and, particularly, the diminished demand, now be accommodated with rickshaws?
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April 25, 2020 9:21am
I remember when

Got up this morning and did the early morning observance. Sorry but it is just not the same. No parade, no the crowds dismal efforts at singing, no atmosphere. Limited reverence.
Please, please let 2021 return to tradition.
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April 25, 2020 9:24am
- notreadyet
  
  I got on y bike and rode 1.5 km in the dark to the town cenotaph, there were about 10 of us there including a bugler who could be heard over half the town in the beautiful still morning. We were joined by 2 local constablry who laid poppies before they left. Riding home past over 20 family groups dtanding at their letterbox. I’ve been to many dawn parades but this morning was a very memorable experience, for both good and bad reasons
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:28am
- kevn
  
  @I rememeber… Cancelled 2 years in a row now. No-one told the NZ Herald yet.
  First time in history they say… duh
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:56am
  - Dougal10
    
    Following cindys narrative no questions asked.
    
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    April 25, 2020 11:26am
- rockape
  
  I am reliably informed Anzac day will be cancelled and replaced with corona virus remembrance day.
  
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  April 25, 2020 12:34pm
Poppa

We live in a country lane with about 9 houses

This morning we all gathered at the bottom of our drive on the roadway. It was actually very nice, and attendance was excellent

It made me wonder if this will become the usual thing to do on Anzac Day?
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April 25, 2020 9:24am
I remember when

“Lone wolves”.
Wolves are intelligent.
This sort of behavior isn’t.
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April 25, 2020 9:27am
Lee C

I’ve stopped reading The Herald, Maggy.
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April 25, 2020 9:28am
- old skool reactionary
  
  I read ti because I get free access. I do it as an observation exercise of what direction Globalist media are pushing the herd in.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:35am
I remember when

What is the one thing the elderly probably get less of than almost any other part of the population-UV rays. What do children and young adults get the more of than most of the population UV and sunshine.
Okay, I know, just doing a Trump impression.
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April 25, 2020 9:32am
I remember when

The UV light and exposure to heat, originally 26C but I think later increased, was recognized quite early in the peace. It was one of reasons that the Australian results were looked forward to with considerable interest. However, many of the surfaces that may have resulted in spread of coronavirus are indoors and likely in air-conditioned buildings.
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April 25, 2020 9:38am
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, recirculating contaminated air is still contaminated air.
  
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  April 25, 2020 9:52am
- Doc Holliday
  
  Exposure to heat, 25C.
  
  So what is considered the normal temperature of the human body?
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:17am
  - rangitoto
    
    Covid- 19 Press briefing.
    DHS Under Secretary for Science and Tech.
    William N. Bryan.
    
    Increased temperature, humidity, sunlight, are detrimental to SARS-COV-2
    in saliva droplets on surfaces and in the air.
    
    Condition — Temp — Humidity — Solar — Half life
    
    Surface: — 21- 23 C — 20% — None —– 18 hrs
    Surface — 21- 23 C — 80% — None —— 6 hrs
    Surface — 35 C ——— 80% — None —— 1 hr
    Surface — 21- 23 C — 80% — Summer — 2 mins
    Aerosol — 21- 23 C — 20% — None —– – 60 mins
    Aerosol — 21- 23 C — 20% — Summer – 1.5 mins
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:30pm
    - Doc Holliday
      
      Bill Bryan, the acting homeland security undersecretary for science and technology, said at the briefing: “Our most striking observation to date is the powerful effect that solar light appears to have on killing the virus – both surfaces and in the air. We’ve seen a similar effect with both temperature and humidity as well, where increasing the temperature and humidity or both is generally less favourable to the virus.”
      ….
      Experts questioned why the homeland security report had been promoted at the briefing. Dr Irwin Redlener, the director of the Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University, told MSNBC: “Everything that this scientist talked about from homeland security was basically incoherent, nonsensical, not really supported by evidence and really quite contrary to a lot of things that we do know about some of the things he was saying.
      
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      April 25, 2020 3:55pm
MrTips

I genuinely fear for this guys job now. Its not the first time he’s called out Cindy and the media.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121206976/prime-minister-needs-to-be-held-to-account-over-coronavirus-claims
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April 25, 2020 9:42am
- fernglas
  
  The media are weak. At the press conference yesterday, one of them was asking a question about contact between people at isolation centres, which had been the subject of an RNZ report earlier that day. The point was that people at different stages of quarantine were associating with each other without observing social distancing rules. The effect could be that someone who had just arrived,and at that time was carrying the virus but as yet asymptomatic, could easily transmit the virus to someone who was about to leave, which could completely subvert the purpose of quarantine. The doctor she asked clearly didn’t follow what she was driving at, and answered non-responsively, at which point the reporter just gave up on this very important question and let it go. Was it because she was scared of being seen as a controversialist, or just because she didn’t know her job? Either way, it was an appalling display of ineptitude.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:02am
  - kowtow
    
    There’s an element of “don’t rock the good ship Aotearoa captained so skillfully through these dangerous seas” going on .
    
    That’s one of the reasons Bridges has been so vilified and dare I say it , the whole Team New Zealand thing that we all have bought into , who wants to be seen as the odd man out ?
    
    We must stick to the simplistic , go hard go early , the rest is merely detail , and these days detail just don’t cut it.
    
    Talking of narratives.
    Anyone notice how very little attention the mass shooting in Nova Scotia’s been given by our Media Party?
    You see Canada has got its gun laws right, is not the looney place the US is and its ruled by the luvey Trudeau , not the Evil Stupid Orange One.
    
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    April 25, 2020 10:17am
    - notreadyet
      
      No they havnt, trudeau is now trying to change gun laws to outlaw like hrre
      
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      April 25, 2020 10:31am
  - Tall Man
    
    Scared to seen as “controversial” or “not on the same page” as the “cool kids”.
    
    3 2
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    April 25, 2020 11:04am
- DeepBlue
  
  Steve Elers is compulsory Saturday morning reading: “If journalists can’t find the motivation within themselves to ask critical questions of the prime minister, perhaps they should imagine she is Simon Bridges.”
  
  I can’t work out how he has managed to keep his freedom of speech. He is obviously beyond caring about censorship from his employer.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:17am
- Ruahine
  
  Mr Elers has put his finger on why the news media were given $50 million of our money. It is a Government bribe.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:27am
Ruahine

Some sense from across the Tasman.
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6151815976001
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April 25, 2020 9:55am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Do you seriously think that would happen in the peeps’ republik of aotearoa…?
  
  Viva la revolucion!
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:14am
- Lucia Maria
  
  It comes as Prime Minister Scott Morrison has flagged some of the strict social distancing measures designed to stem the spread of COVID-19 in Australia may be lifted in the nation in the coming weeks.
  
  But, but, but … when the comparison to Australia has been raised with the gov’t, the justification for our harsher lockdown was that Aussie would be in lockdown for longer.
  
  Right. The Aussies, with a more flexible leadership seem to be adjusting to reality faster than our fixed in the same, we must stick the to the plan and then some, just to “lock in the gains”.
  
  What gains?? Just seeing negative loss that has been compounded with every, single day of this unjustified, completely stupid lockdown.
  
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  April 25, 2020 3:54pm
  - Nickc2
    
    It must never be forgotten, Australia has a Liberal Government and we have whatever you want to call it but never liberal or free thinking.
    
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    April 25, 2020 4:18pm
thirteenstars

On the topic of medical advice, good bad or just plain dumb, YouTube is to start censoring advice on its platform that contradicts the WHO. Yep, those infallible international bureaucrats. If it ain’t part of their orthodoxy, YouTube will take it down.

Good article about it from FEE:

https://fee.org/articles/youtube-to-ban-content-that-contradicts-who-on-covid-19-despite-the-un-agency-s-catastrophic-track-record-of-misinformation/
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April 25, 2020 9:55am
- Doc Holliday
  
  So exactly what information or advice from the WHO has been wrong?
  
  Perhaps a native-English speaking medical doctor like David Nabarro might have been less concerned with definitions (check “pandemic” on WHO site) and more concerned with health and warned the epidemic in Wuhan was a pandemic-in-waiting.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nabarro
  
  https://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/frequently_asked_questions/pandemic/en/
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:52am
I remember when

@Mr Tips
“Fear for his job”. He is working at that bastion of freedom of speech. I’m sure he hasn’t said anything to brash.
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April 25, 2020 9:59am
- Tall Man
  
  “too brash”, “to Brash”?
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:01am
Maggy Wassilieff

My Grandfather was Captain of the SS Garmoyle – a cargo ship – which struck a mine laid by a German Submarine in the Irish Sea in 1917.
https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?48088

From 1924 to 1937 sons of British seamen that had been killed or wounded during World War I were brought over, trained at Flock House, Bulls and placed on farms in New Zealand, to start a new life.

That’s how my Daddy (and his brother) got to NZ.

It’s always puzzled me why NZ thought the sons of Scottish seamen would make good shepherds….
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April 25, 2020 10:04am
- Ruahine
  
  Scots can do anything.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:21am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Many Scottish seaman only became seamen because the Highland clearances forced them out of the straths and to the coast.
  
  The north coast of Sutherland is a case in point where the crofters of Strathnaver ended up at Durness, Bettyhill and Tongue
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:38am
- towaka
  
  I grew up just down the road from Flock House Maggie… in its heyday when JJ Stuart was the principal. Flock House is now owned by an Australian who bought it as glorified life style block!
  
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  April 25, 2020 6:36pm
Suze Wainwright

Heh, I was asked to support some activist mental health campaigner to get into the top 10 of the Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand list for the coming election, on Facebook this morning.
Apart from anything else, I was both bemused and intrigued by the number of green member support comments bashing Eugenie Sage. I actually thought that as a typical interfering busybody green MP she’s been effective and they might have been more supportive of her…
I guess that – eventually – the left really know how to eat their own.
Maybe even Cindy should look over her shoulder further down the track – but that would be improbable, after all, no one else in the Labour Party would like to be the leader.
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April 25, 2020 10:22am
- alex Masterley
  
  I received the same post, although for the life of me I could not figure out why. The comments were interesting from the perspective of working out how these people think.
  
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  April 25, 2020 10:46am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    I couldn’t figure out why either – the power of network marketing I guess…
    
    6 0
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    April 25, 2020 10:48am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t think they do think. I think they “dwell” on the negative.
    
    They are certainly not “glass half full people” are they.
    
    9 2
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    April 25, 2020 10:56am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      I was going to comment: You know, I used to vote Green, but Jacinda’s just doing such a fantastic job right now that I’m going to vote for her…
      
      9 1
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      April 25, 2020 11:35am
      - Tall Man
        
        Heh heh heh.
        
        You are a bad person. No hugz for you now.
        
        4 2
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        April 25, 2020 1:52pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      “dwell”?
      
      A festering mental swirl pool of hate, greed, and envy.
      
      2 2
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      April 25, 2020 1:11pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Yep, I think it’s Celtic slang for “dirty well”…….
        
        2 2
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        April 25, 2020 1:50pm
- DeepBlue
  
  It’s the very left faction from Greens who want to demote Shaw, Sage, Swarbrick down the list to unelectable positions. A group of 100 people as reported yesterday.
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:51pm
Doc Holliday

Trump said: “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute! And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds interesting to me.”

Dr Deborah Birx, the taskforce response coordinator, remained silent. But social media erupted in outrage at the president, who has a record of defying science and also floated the idea of treating patients’ bodies with ultraviolet (UV) light.

Reckitt Benckiser, the British-based maker of Dettol and Lysol, said in a statement: “We must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body (through injection, ingestion or any other route).”

Robert Reich, a professor of public policy at the University of California at Berkeley and a former labor secretary, tweeted: “Trump’s briefings are actively endangering the public’s health. Boycott the propaganda. Listen to the experts. And please don’t drink disinfectant.”

Walter Shaub, the former director of the Office of Government Ethics, added: “It is incomprehensible to me that a moron like this holds the highest office in the land and that there exist people stupid enough to think this is OK. I can’t believe that in 2020 I have to caution anyone listening to the president that injecting disinfectant could kill you.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/scientists-criticise-uk-government-over-following-the-science
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April 25, 2020 10:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  One of the things I feel quite angry about is that basic body health, community health, and first-aid knowledge is missing from the school health curriculum.
  
  Somewhere along the line, the emphasis shifted to nebulous concepts like well-being and spiritual health instead of bugs, bogeys and bones.
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:14am
  - Doc Holliday
    
    In America Godliness is next to cleanliness!
    
    3 4
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    April 25, 2020 11:20am
  - Ruahine
    
    Maggy, you missed out sex.
    
    3 1
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    April 25, 2020 11:45am
    - Johnboy
      
      Only cause she never gave me a call mate! 🙂
      
      0 1
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      April 25, 2020 1:43pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Johnboy
        
        One of my mates did a section at a Wellington sexual health Clinic…she furnished me with enough visuals to ensure my young charges didn’t go around infecting all & sundry.
        
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        April 25, 2020 2:51pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think sex education was one of the aspects of the Health curriculum that was well done.
      (At least it was when I was teaching it).
      
      2 0
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      April 25, 2020 2:47pm
      - Nickc2
        
        How much practice is involved in that?
        
        1 0
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        April 25, 2020 2:52pm
      - cmm
        
        Nick: What’s the difference between education and training?
        
        What would you think if your daughter can home from school and said “today we did sex training”.
        
        3 0
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        April 25, 2020 4:03pm
      - Nickc2
        
        @ cmm
        An oldie but a goodie. Tks cmm.
        
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        April 25, 2020 4:28pm
  - oldfella
    
    Those nebulous concepts probably include students being asked to identify which one of the 100+ genders applies to them.
    
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    April 25, 2020 11:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I enjoyed two years of human biology/physiology at high school.
    
    3 1
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    April 25, 2020 1:04pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    And it is missing from the basic advice they should be dishing out on nutrition and boosting immunity.
    
    “There is no cure. (you will have to wait until big pharmaceuticals produce a vaccine)”. So we have to keep YOU in lock down, and restrict gatherings.
    
    Salute me and say Ya Vol whenever you reply to me.
    
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    April 25, 2020 3:40pm
    - Doc Holliday
      
      Jawhol!
      
      2 0
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      April 25, 2020 3:59pm
- Fletch
  
  It is clear from the video that Trump is excited by the research that the previous speaker, Bill Bryant, is presenting and is enthusiastically positing on the ways the studies could be leveraged to treat the human person. The media, ever on the lookout to be critical of him in some way, just blew it up from nothing. If Obama had said this, they would have ignored it.
  
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  April 25, 2020 12:04pm
  - fernglas
    
    O
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There is UBI. Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation. The rabid left may want to research that before you get your sorry arses kicked any more
    
    3 2
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    April 25, 2020 1:54pm
- RightNow
  
  “And is there a way we can do something like that” is what Trump said. He’s asking if it’s possible.
  So everyone who is laughing at him must be pretty confident that no such thing is possible. Is that your position Doc? That it’s impossible?
  
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  April 25, 2020 3:40pm
Fletch

Remember don’t near cough over here… Far cough over there… 😄

https://www.facebook.com/william.salabogi/videos/10222563012132875/UzpfSTYzNjAxMTkzMDoxMDE1NzIyMzE4NTkzNjkzMQ/
2 2
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April 25, 2020 10:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jokes are out of bounds today Fletch. KB is full of humourless fucks atm
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:55pm
MrTips

Random question:

Why does the govt spend 33M on Facebook and Google advertising to cover NZ? And in this day and age of privacy concerns, are the govt not bothered by Google and Facebook mining data about punters needs eg. an MSD ad about COVID hardship support?

And it’s not like tourism ads are all done by govt either.
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April 25, 2020 11:14am
- Batman
  
  You advertise where the eyeballs are, and social media advertising gets way more engagement and eyeballs than traditional formats.
  
  I’m talking posts and videos here, not sidebar ads.
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:16am
  - kevn
    
    @Batman… Social media?
    Topham Guerin country. Already on the job apparently.
    
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    April 25, 2020 12:29pm
Doc Holliday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzDhm808oU4&t=6s

What’s better than Jordan Klepper at a Trump rally?
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April 25, 2020 11:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The real reason you can’t go in the ocean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y5wc3RDVGQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3wi6vcz49B8WSMA4VGIi47RnJf8aM52dAwPJDA5pcO7YerbRPXCK6RXMQ
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April 25, 2020 11:33am
- Inandout
  
  Steve, do aliens have optical examinations?
  
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  April 25, 2020 11:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dunno, never asked them. Never seen one wearing glasses
    
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    April 25, 2020 1:23pm
- niggly
  
  Lol – “Respect the New Locals”!
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:24pm
Ruahine

Was out walking along the Maraetai Beach walkway yesterday just after 1 pm when I saw a C-130 Hercules flying in from the direction of the Coromandel so it was flying from East to West. It was flying along the Tamaki Strait and was flying incredibly low over the water and also quite slow. It headed off past Rangitoto along the North Shore. My companion and I mused as to whether it was flying on Gov’t orders and was out looking for people boating and swimming.
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April 25, 2020 11:54am
- Paulus
  
  Flew over Tauranga Airport and on to Coromandel.
  Unusual as we have no flights currently into Tauranga s we watched.
  
  2 1
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  April 25, 2020 1:54pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Saw that above my place. It was very very low over Glenfield/Bayview. Turned and went over the inner harbour – se yes, reporting boats
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:59pm
Fletch

Go and Google patent US10105389B1
Injecting Chlorine Dioxide for treating cancerous tumors. So it is a legitimate practice, and who knows if it could be used in other applications?
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April 25, 2020 12:02pm
- rangitoto
  
  The immune system uses hydrogen peroxide and superoxide as a non specific mechanism for damaging infectious agents. The hydrogen peroxide also appears to act as a signalling agent to attract neutrophils and other immune system cells.
  
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  April 25, 2020 1:20pm
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/04/24/armenians-observe-anniversary-genocide-we-will-not-submit-consequences/
Turkish nationaliststs had wanted to ‘purify’ the Ottoman Empire. The Gallipoli landings gave them the pretense they wanted.
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April 25, 2020 12:58pm
Odakyu-sen

Okay, so we will soon move from Alert Level 4 to Alert Level 3.x (where “x” is the unknown).

What will you be able to do at Level 3.x that you cannot do now?
– Go for a drive in the countryside (but how far?)
– Make a non-contact pick up of a takeaway? (Is this like a drive through?)
– Visit your aging parent(s)?
– Invite your mates over for a beer? (Maybe not?)

What are you looking forward to doing at Level 3.x that you haven’t been able to do for the last 5 weeks?
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April 25, 2020 1:07pm
- Inandout
  
  Oda, the gummedupment is still thinking about what to do but I am becoming increasingly weary of being ruled by a Covid19 announcement.
  
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  April 25, 2020 2:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Serviced boat motor. Waterblasted the inside. All electrics checked. As soon as level 3 is listed I am going to hit the water real hard, like 4.30am, no matter how rough
  
  8 3
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  April 25, 2020 2:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just for those control freaks, I have been on this harbour for over 45 years – and I can swim. There are some who are safe in boats, and there are some who should not even look at pictures of boats
    
    8 3
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    April 25, 2020 3:10pm
    - Ruahine
      
      NZ Government.
      Coalition of Tyranny.
      
      2 1
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      April 25, 2020 5:13pm
    - Poppa
      
      Totally with you there Steve
      
      I am gagging for a fish, anywhere any time. My boat will be sulking, just hope the battery is ok
      
      1 1
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      April 25, 2020 5:23pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You can go into the water…
  https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/130903094506-diana-nyad-face-mask-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg
  
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  April 25, 2020 3:00pm
rangitoto

Interesting that Belgium has the highest number of deaths/capita. Comparing with other European countries, the old Eastern Block countries appear to be doing best. Air quality has to be a major factor. I recall Belgium is one of the worst places in Europe for that.
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April 25, 2020 1:15pm
Inandout

I used to go to the local Lotto shop to buy my tickets and the odd magazine (now gone) or a newspaper (now government owned). Being forced to buy online I must say Lotto make the operation very simple, and topping up the kitty is a breeze. I will still visit my local bookseller to buy greetings cards, but on second thoughts he may have gone under meantime.
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April 25, 2020 1:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump asked about light and disinfectant injected into the body. There are two existing therapies. UV therapy as well as ozone therapy. The one that has the left all riled up is ozone therapy. This has been used for cancer patients. O3 gas is infused into the body as a DISINFECTANT to improve the intake of oxygen while ramping up the immune system, thus more efficiently killing bacteria and viruses. You can google it if you want. Trump asked the expert off to the side if testing was being done relative to applying this to the coronavirus. But of course NBC CBS CNN and company would take his words out of context to make it sound like he looked at the camera and said “hey let’s all drink bleach”. Disinfectant inside the body is indeed dangerous and should only be done by a doctor.
A footnote: if you take high amounts of vitamin C yourself, you will wind up with a buildup of hydrogen peroxide inside the body. Hydrogen peroxide is a DISINFECTANT. This is why vitamin C is so effective against viruses on its own.
As you were, morons
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April 25, 2020 2:02pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  Have you ever thought of Irish dancing?
  
  Lots of fancy footwork and don’t use your head…
  
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  April 25, 2020 4:02pm
- Jules99
  
  I think the reason why they are so desperate to attack him is nothing to do with Trump himself. It’s because if any of the three treatments he has suggested so far become cures, then bye bye multi-trillion dollar vaccine industry. And I think Trump knows this and is teasing them. Fauci has financial interests in a vaccine company, and Brix has associations with Bill Gates’ vaccine organisation – not doubt hoping to profit as well. Which do you think they all prefer – a cure or a vaccine (under patent) that you give to every healthy person on the planet?
  
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  April 25, 2020 4:35pm
John Warren

Can anything be read into the fact that, on Cindy’s mental health days, Grant Robertson fronts for the government? Not the Deputy PM, or Special Agent K, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party.

Aunty Granty has always seemed to me the least incompetent of the team of nincompoops that comprise the Labour-led government. He has often been witnessed instructing the imbecile woman what to say, sotto voce. I sometimes get the impression that he’s the one really in charge, at least when Winston isn’t extorting his 7% leverage.
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April 25, 2020 2:09pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Over the last month.. It’s the Cabinet Ministers based in Wellington that have had Tele time, (Hipkins, Robertson, Faafoi and Ardern).
  
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  April 25, 2020 3:06pm
  - Nickc2
    
    It’s probably time and a half for Saturdays and double time for Sundays. I think the going rate for long weekends is double time and a half. Andrew Little will be guiding them, he’s up to speed on union awards but don’t ask him a question about Pike River, the answer will take too long.
    
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    April 25, 2020 3:17pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Pity Grant knows nothing about finance, except how to get access to the Reserve Bank account.
  
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  April 25, 2020 7:07pm
MrTips

You heard it here first:

The PGF is to be recalibrated to regional infrastructure projects that suit Robbo and Winston’s desire to be re-elected. The talks are well progressed. Cindy could care less and Shane is frothing at the cloaca.
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April 25, 2020 2:18pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Did not know he had one of those. Explains a lot
  
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  April 25, 2020 2:44pm
- alloytoo
  
  What really need to be re-calibrated are public transport initiatives, as demand is going to plummet.
  
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  April 25, 2020 4:31pm
Nickc2

I saw a picture of Cindy, her father and her whatever celebrating ANZAC day outside some house (presumably Cindy’s) on the Stuff website. Was Cindy’s father outside his bubble and where was the 2m social separation?
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April 25, 2020 3:30pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Her parents have been staying at Premier House through the Lockdown.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12324089
  
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  April 25, 2020 4:13pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    How nice for them, did we all pay for this family get together?
    
    11 2
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    April 25, 2020 4:50pm
- chaos
  
  I thought you would of noticed some florist opened up to deliver her flowers to hold for the photo.
  
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  April 25, 2020 5:31pm
IndividualResponsibility

John Warren & David Garrett – how about being a member of an even more exclusive club – by joining my wife & I having never had, despite low level derision from some friends and relatives, a Facebook account.
We chose this path some years ago when I learned that a former senior CIA Director was appointed to the role of CEO of, as I recall, Google. I was very suspicious when joining those dots.
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April 25, 2020 4:46pm
RW Capitalist

So ,,,Grant Robertson, playing fast and loose with the numbers again.
30000 new unemployed
q: as of when?
He said that’s < 1% of the NZ population.
Q: since when did we start calculating the unemployment rate against the total population and not the working population?
So actually closer to 2.5% increase in actual unemployment, so we are closer to 7% unemployment (not counting the numbers they have been hiding in the other benefits) and L4 is not over yet.
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April 25, 2020 4:49pm
- Ruahine
  
  This is not going to be a great time for New Zealand.
  I know some people personally who are presently employed by Air NZ. Many are likely to be officially informed next week if they have a job any more. Some have only just started. Most have mortgages, many have children.
  All of this is not the Gov’ts fault. So why distort the truth Grant Robertson?
  
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  April 25, 2020 5:06pm
  - Poppa
    
    Carnage in the travel industry and bus & coach industry
    
    Many will not survive
    
    Thanks Cindy, but you do get a hug fest every day at 1.00
    
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    April 25, 2020 5:33pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Restaurants
      Physiotherapists (mention it, because I saw a big sign today and thought, no more for you)
      Cafe’s and Bars… Not just lock down, but after when people have no money to go there.
      Any business who’s financial reserves are so depleted, they can’t afford to start back up.
      
      6 1
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      April 25, 2020 6:19pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    “All of this is not the Gov’ts fault. So why distort the truth Grant Robertson?”
    He’s distorting it, because it is the govt.s fault.
    A disease did not cause this.
    Their ridiculous reaction to it did.
    We had weeks worth of warning to act.
    We are surrounded by 1000Km of pacific ocean.
    They should have acted in late January, by then we knew what was happening in Italy.
    Shut the boarders IMMEDIATELY.
    All incomers landed at military bases, not civilian airports.
    Isolated on those bases
    NOT in the middle of our biggest cities
    ALL health equipment purchased/ordered immediately and sent to old folks homes, clusters and the military bases.
    NOTE do not lock down the country.
    But they panicked, after delaying (in order to make political capital) and locked us down, without even considering the repercussions of that.
    Even the lock down was muddled.
    They could tell anyone (in some cases still can’t) what is an “essential business”?
    What is a supply chain?
    What is a location (local to you)? Street, town, suburb?
    etc etc
    Gave the police MASSIVE powers to interpret this as they saw fit.
    
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    April 25, 2020 5:33pm
    - kiwiracer
      
      Communism 101
      
      7 1
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      April 25, 2020 5:50pm
RW Capitalist

Saw a funny contradiction today.
Behind me in the queue to get into the supermarket.
Was a young man, standing very patiently, wearing a face mask, with an anarchy symbol on it.
Self awareness???
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April 25, 2020 4:54pm
WaveyDavey

Have we done gangs manning roadblocks yet? You know the ones that Bridges got roasted for that don’t exist.

https://ibb.co/yPfrjS0

Says otherwise
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April 25, 2020 5:40pm
rangitoto

CCP not happy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWbZKfeU4AAOS2n?format=jpg&name=medium
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April 25, 2020 6:08pm

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