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April 28, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 April 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

I’ve been a fairly good lad, all my life. The occasional speeding ticket as a young chap owned a number of ludicrously powerful cars. I paid up, and learned my lesson. Since then nothing but parking tickets and the occasional overdue library book. Why is this important? Well, like you, I’ve spent 5 weeks in total, if majorly grumbling, compliance with the lockdown. However from today I have decided that I’ll see and spend time with any friend who is similarly minded, the bubble be damned.

The government will not dictate who I meet with, when, nor on what terms. The government’s restriction of civil liberties could initially have been excused as a brain fart, the result of not seeking second or third opinions on matters so breathtakingly central to our lives as free citizens. Since then, however, a veritable tsunami of evidence showing the lock down to be net detrimental to the lives and welfare of New Zealanders has become available, yet the government doubled down extending the lock down. It is wrong. It’s is unjustified. It is immoral. My aging parents desperately need care, and my heart is breaking from not spending time with our children and our grandchild. I have friends I want to spend time with, some of whom are have mental health challenges and/or business closures as a direct result of the Ardern government’s actions. I’ve had enough of totalitarianism with trainer wheels.

I respect that many New Zealanders remain paralysed with fear as a result of the deliberately unbalanced narrative they’ve been force-fed. I empathize with them, which is why I’ll continue to respect social distancing where this is obviously desired by other parties. But I will not have a government dictate who, when, and how I engage with other citizens, particularly when the governments own ministers and deputy-PM have made a mockery of their very own rules, and with total impunity.

Party at Chateau Kk. All welcome.
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April 28, 2020 8:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I am seeing all the family affected with a form of depression to accommodate them to the lockdown. Schooling is going to be very hard to restart and one is threatening to lawfully drop out if NCEA is not achieved this year.
  
  When we allow the selection of a COL as controllers what else should we expect? Adulation does not make practical policy.
  They are now promising to restore the economy!
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:23am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    They broke it before Covid19.
    The wu flu, just gave them an excuse to tare more of it down.
    Typical Labour. Burn it down so they can be king of the ashes.
    Dean Inge’s adage was reprinted in multiple periodicals after its 1931 appearance. … Dean Inge, who often said wise, shrewd and pithy things, once wrote: “There are two kinds of fools. One says ‘This is old; therefore, it is good’ The other says ‘This is new; therefore, it is better. ‘”
    Labour are both kinds of fool.
    Marx …old (discredited in so many ways, mostly by implementation)
    Current policy. To change what was actually working (tax cuts etc)
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:31am
- Scott
  
  Krazy kiwi – you’re going to have to change your name? One of the best comments I’ve read in ages.
  And that’s my thinking as well. Taking all of our freedoms away is worse than the actual threat of the virus. Our government has trod on our freedoms to promise us safety.
  
  As Benjamin Franklin said, “a people who will sacrifice liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety”.
  I actually think kiwis are better than this. We need to rekindle the Anzac spirit and get this country working again and free again.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:24am
  - kevn
    
    @Scott… VOTE maga
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:58am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Totally agree, Scott & KK.
    Today, after painting the garage door second coat, I’m off to the Mount to see my son and my 2 grandkids. Apparently at odd times the police have mounted road blocks/checkpoints on the harbour bridge – but under level 3 rules I am allowed to go there. If I’m am attempted to be stopped, a car chase will ensue.
    Stuff the govt. and the house arrest, stealing our freedoms, and trying to control every stage of our lives. Enough is enough.
    And if they think they can start level 4 again, Civil Disobedience and reclaiming Freedom will be the Battle cry.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:06am
    - John Warren
      
      Yes, agree Don. My daughter and I are meeting up with a friend of mine to go for a pleasant day tramp (location to remain secret) on Saturday. It’s not far, and it’s very safe, we’re being sensible, and we’re all fed up with fucking Cindy telling us what we can and can’t do.
      
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      April 28, 2020 10:09am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Scott that means voting out the COL
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:55am
- Bill Felt
  
  totalitarianism
  
  noun
  a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:42am
  - tf78
    
    Have you noticed all the COL now call this government a “regime” – it is no longer a democracy.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:09am
  - peterwn
    
    Vast difference between current situation and real “totalitarianism”. For example:
    1. Parliament meets today. Would not happen if real totalitarianism.
    2. Simon Bridges not under house arrest (OK there was a pathetic attempt to put him under house arrest).
    3. Elections on track to be held this year. If NZ was totalitarian they would be cancelled.
    4. Governor General not in exile. She can pull the pin on the Government and force an election at any time if she considered it necessary. Unless Jacinda jumps in first and asks Her Majesty to remove the Gov from office.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    Bill, Ian Wishart’s book ‘Totalitaria’ lays it all out complete with references to instances and authors etc (the plan). Then, along comes Winston and Cindy to implement the plan. Their efforts have resulted in floorless implementation and adherance to detail so far. We shall remember them come September 19.
    
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    April 28, 2020 1:33pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Wishart – the master conspiracy theorist. “floorless” ….
      
      He must be independently wealthy. I doubt that he sells a lot of books.
      
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      April 28, 2020 3:06pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Don’t read between the lines. My use of the word ‘floorless’ was in relation to Winston and Cindy’s implementation of the plan, NOT Wishart’s theory itself.
        
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        April 28, 2020 3:18pm
      - PhilBest
        
        The master conspiracy theorist? Is something that someone predicted accurately, still nothing more than a “conspiracy”?
        
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        April 28, 2020 6:44pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      @Nick
      
      Perhaps you meant “flawless” – without flaws, rather than “floorless” – without flaws 🙂
      
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      April 28, 2020 3:34pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Yes, sorry about that. Never mind though, you obviously got the meaning. Bloody spell checker!
        
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        April 28, 2020 3:41pm
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  About a week go, I had to climb into the window of my elderly neighbour’s house after my wife discovered him collapsed and unresponsive when she did her daily bubble-compliant check on him. He had been unable to move for over 12 hours and had laid alone, suffering overnight.
  
  We called the ambulance and did our best to make him comfortable until it arrived. He was taken off to the hospital where he lingered for several days, alone without visitors until he died, a few weeks short of his 90th birthday.
  
  In the weeks of lockdown, he had been isolated under house arrest, unable to use the support system he relied upon for his social contact and wellbeing. He became increasingly depressed and listless.
  
  Nobody ever asked him if he wanted to be protected from Covid-19. Nobody asked him if he wanted to be under house arrest in exchange for this protection. His greatest fear was dying alone and that is exactly what came to pass.
  
  Hundreds, and likely thousands, of these stories have played out over the past five weeks and many more are going to do the same in the coming weeks.
  
  We have forced our elderly to endure their greatest fear, i.e., suffering and perhaps dying alone, for an utterly misguided and overly draconian response to an illness no worse than influenza.
  
  It is criminal, psychopathic, and inexcusable. Only devoted Statists could ever put Control so high on the priority list so as to allow this all to transpire. Our Dear Leaders have been revealed. They are ogres of the worst sort and must be removed from power without delay.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:56am
  - tf78
    
    That is so sad and I’m sure as you say one of many affected by these draconian “rules”.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:11am
  - John Warren
    
    That is awful. The poor old sod.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:10am
  - Dougal10
    
    Communists don’t care they just pretend that they do.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:17am
    - Nickc2
      
      Cindy and Winston have blood on their hands and all the MSM fawning won’t remove it.
      
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      April 28, 2020 1:40pm
  - Belinda
    
    That is such a sad story, I suspect it wont be the last one we hear of.
    Grateful to your wife for what she was trying to do.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:59am
  - [email protected]
    
    I am so sorry to hear this.
    
    Received a call from an 86 year old friend that is having problems with depression and sleep issues. He’s used to doing things every day. He used to volunteer his time at a local museum. Made him feel useful and passed the time. Now he’s worried about a number of issues including dieing. He’s on anti-depressants and sleeping pills.
    
    It’s also affecting me to some degree but luckily I enjoy programming and have found some usefull things to take my mind off the fact that I’m imprisoned.
    
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    April 28, 2020 5:24pm
- EuropeanCanon
  
  I’m with you friend. And they can keep their tracking apps, no thanks. Lock down is over as far as I am concerned.
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:12am
- quarterpack
  
  Enforced social isolation in one form or another would appear to be the only effective way to restrict this virus from spreading. This is an approach taken globally by governments of all colours. If you know of a better preventative approach, then perhaps share it with the world, but in otherwise, why not accept a temporary restriction on your freedom?
  
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  April 28, 2020 12:59pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    So what’s you’re advocating is restrict the virus from spreading, no matter the human cost? Have I got that right? Because that’s the type of one-dimensional decision making that got us into this dreadful mess. More of the same isn’t the answer. Neither is comparing us with other countries because, well, we’re not other countries.
    
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    April 28, 2020 4:16pm
Akarak

When we heard about Coronavirus
We were told it was a disease
But little did we realise
It would bring us to our knees

‘Self Isolate’ and ‘Social Distance’
Were the terms we came to know
But the girl who wrapped the fish & chips
Had a different row to hoe

“Stay at home, don’t go to work
Essential people only!
Close the schools, shut grandad’s door
The answer’s here, Levels 1 to 4”

“Don’t worry about unemployment,
Mortgages and more
We have benefits and subsidies
You’ve never had before”

“Millions more for Maori
The homeless in motels
We’ll quarantine our travellers
In luxury hotels”

The media was full of praise and adulation
Besotted with a leader so great
They couldn’t see what the rest of us saw
And that was an empty plate

When the marathon is over
And we crawl across the line
Remember the name Jacinda Ardern
Three fish, battered sausage and chips
Order number nine
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April 28, 2020 8:01am
- tf78
  
  Brilliant, well done.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:20am
- Dougal10
  
  Sorry for the down tick fat fingers
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:30am
  - Dougal10
    
    Is there any way to create a bigger gap between the ticks when using kiwiblog on a phone
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:19am
    - EuropeanCanon
      
      or at least an undo?
      
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      April 28, 2020 10:32am
    - Ian Hawthorn
      
      Should be a simple matter of putting one of those dots between them.
      
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      April 28, 2020 10:47am
- Tall Man
  
  Maybe Lee C could work up a tune for this missive ……
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:44am
- JackRabbit
  
  Yes and a deserted Fish and Chip shop if she lost her job. Spite and Spit are closely related and you want neither in your shark and tatties.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:46am
MT_Tinman

The Dictator has, apparently, announced to the world that NZ has eliminated Covid-19 from it’s shores.

Why, if this is the case, is the dictatorship still in place?

Recall Parliament immediately!
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April 28, 2020 8:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Parliament reconvenes at 2pm this afternoon MT.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:11am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    How could he be expected to know that?
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:16am
    - Tall Man
      
      I guess, unlike you, he doesn’t think he knows everything.
      
      When he says “recall Parliament”, I very much doubt he in mind the current travesty whereby a corrupt speaker refuses to allow proper questioning and allows outrageous behaviour to go unpunished when it emanates from his “own side”.
      
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      April 28, 2020 8:47am
      - Ian Boag
        
        I guess, unlike you, he doesn’t think he knows everything.
        
        There are other posters on KB who feel they know everything. Check out a mirror ….
        
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        April 28, 2020 3:09pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I think you’ll find ian, like most of your childish attempts to denigrate me, that once again you’ve scored an own goal.
        
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        April 28, 2020 5:41pm
  - MT_Tinman
    
    Unless the dictatorship is removed, and I’ve seen no such report, it doesn’t – it is a just an informal get-together.
    
    If it does, formally, the first order of business should be charging the dictatorship with manslaughter of all those who have died because of the house-arrest.
    
    I’m told this number is about three times the number of deaths with Covid-19.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:26am
  - kevn
    
    @Tony… Did you know that business reporters aren’t invited to the 1pm sessions? and I’m pretty sure all questions are supplied to the assembled..
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:00am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Supplied to the select few, almost like it is rehearsed
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:17am
      - peterwn
        
        So was the question to Ashley concerning Trump’s proposed cure a patsy and the response from Ashley and Jacinda well rehearsed?
        
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        April 28, 2020 9:41am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I did not see that question asked, but I guess it was pure TDS. I am tired of the daily propaganda
        
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        April 28, 2020 10:35am
      - Nickc2
        
        Yes Steve. I heard Soper state on the radio this morning that he would “get” a certain person’s question asked during the 1pm show today. No doubt he will likewise inform Cindy what question is going to be asked in order that her scriptwriters can prepare a reply.
        
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        April 28, 2020 1:52pm
- G152
  
  Wont happen. They’re on a roll.
  Just watch how our ‘liberties’ are never what they were prior virus
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:20am
artemisia

OK, we are now at Level 3 for 2 weeks or maybe more. The Prime Minister says we won’t be there for long unless we start socialising. Decision to be made in 2 weeks, on Monday 11 May.

People need time to prepare, as there was in the past few days. Half a day is not enough. So that means either an extension of Level 3 past Monday 11 May or earlier notice of a move to Level 2.

So Prime Minister, what’s it going to be? Shut down businesses need to know. Will it be an extension based on superficially defensible data, or a sensible decision?
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April 28, 2020 8:03am
- Brian Marshall
  
  I think you and I both know, the only numbers she cares about are the polling numbers.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ardern is going to have the economic numbers kick her in the shins in the near future. The COL won’t have the foggiest notion about what to do about it. They will plan and announce and throw Others money at it. However without management we will have Kiwifail. The COL has ideas but not ability for governance–power without capacity.
    
    Communists states failed that way. We have just had a taste with MBIE determining what goods are essential and the Police floundering over trivial unnecessary decisions.
    ☑️☑️Get them OUT 2020☑️☑️
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:34am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘The COL won’t have the foggiest notion about what to do about it.’
      
      There’s a genius at the Reserve Bank who knows what …….tane mahuta, that’ll fix it.
      
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      April 28, 2020 10:14am
    - curry4me
      
      KevO’Brien: If there’s a National led government after the election, they’ll have to do a mini-budget ASAP.
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:57pm
- tf78
  
  Why did she delay the announcement until the day AFTER mother’s day.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:21am
  - Dougal10
    
    So her mother is still in her bubble
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:22am
- kowtow
  
  By their own definition we’re at level 1, amazing how we put up with this. Where’s the MSM to hold power to account , instead of constantly supporting it ?( while their own team is in anyway)
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    sure looks like we are at Level One
    The disease is contained in New Zealand.
    
    https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-system/covid-19-alert-system/
    
    https://covid19.govt.nz/assets/resources/tables/COVID-19-alert-levels-summary.pdf
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:23am
    - Ruawai
      
      This morning JA said we had achieved elimination and were now moving to eradication, seems she keeps moving the goalposts. I thought if we achieved her definition of ‘elimination’ we could move to level 2.
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:49am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        “we could move to level 2”
        and lose control?…silly boy
        
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        April 28, 2020 10:17am
  - Jack5
    
    Ardern put high-rev PR spin on her words when she said the Government’s goal was to keep people in work and “I think we have largely done that”.
    
    Largely? Taiwan, Slovakia — and probably many other countries — contained coronavirus without, unlike New Zealand, shutting down business. No matter how much the Left-dominated media ignores them, it is countries such as these that have been the stand-out leaders in containing Covid-19.
    
    To the thousands of NZ small business owners shutting down or begging the bank for working capital; to the scores of thousands of people out of a job or on reduced hours: Ardern is what you get when you elect a lying, PR Prime Minister. To distort is to lie.
    
    That the English speaking media are swallowing Ardern’s self-aggrandising spin indicates the once-free English-speaking press is in the delirium stage of its obsolescence.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:03am
fernglas

If testing is so important, and we have the capacity to test 10,000 per day, why are we only testing 2,000?
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April 28, 2020 8:05am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  testing is important. We should be testing all reasonable candidates – anyone with symptoms and all people who might have been exposed within 1-2 weeks of exposure. Not sure how you spread the testing pool beyond that.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:28am
  - fernglas
    
    Test random groups, to see how prevalent asymptomatic or mild CV-19 is in the community. Test everyone who comes back into the country, not just those who report symptoms. Widen the criteria for testing to include those symptoms reported by the BMJ here: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1470
    Test people who are at high risk, including those who have regular contact with quarantined and hospitalised cases. Test people who are in services such as supermarkets who have regular contact with the public. Test bus drivers, taxi drivers, Uber drivers. And if you have tests left over, test anybody who wants one, so they can find out whether they should be shitting themselves or not.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:48am
    - tf78
      
      My brother had one last Friday (only because he naively said he had a cough – he has had a cough for years) he said it brought tears to his eyes and wouldn’t like to do it again. (negative by the way)
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:17am
    - krazykiwi
      
      That sounds perilously close to a sensible, and therefore seditious plan. Pack your bag, sir. The re-education camp beckons.
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:48am
  - Tall Man
    
    Random testing should be done to ascertain if it is within the population at large.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:48am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Start with those at risk of actually dying.
    Respiratory illness patients
    and the over 65’s
    Random testing has only tested about 2% of the population, most of whom will only have cold like symptoms.
    1. Over 65’s make up 14% of the pop.
    2. Over 65’s make up about 95% (100% in NZ) of deaths in the world.(of covid 19)
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:49am
- Yvette
  
  Fernglas
  First official mention of tests seems to be Health Ministry release on March 8 when a total of 224 tests had been completed. It took until March 17 or 18 (figures not available those two days) until the first 1,000 tests had been done, 19 days after the first case was reported (February 28)
  
  If they can now do ten times the number of tests in one day, that initially took 19 days, then “Go early, go hard” was an absolute lie.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:33am
  - Ruahine
    
    The reality actually was ‘Go Late and go Stupid’.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:56am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Maximum damage Cindy. If you want to replace Capitalism first you have to destroy the economy.
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:20am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Diamond Princess testing of the 3711 (all onboard) the first real population test available has been affirmed. National populations are presenting now with very similar outcomes: 0.27 % deaths. Half or more will never know they had it, basically only the elderly are at risk–the sicker they are the greater.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:36am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      NZ is way below the 0.27%.
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:57am
- RW Capitalist
  
  and claiming some form of success from this meager sample?
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:34am
- MCos
  
  Who are you going to test if people aren’t crook?
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:41am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    If people aren’t crook, why can’t we go back to normal?
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:51am
    - MCos
      
      Seems to be the way we’re heading, cautiously.
      My understanding is that if there are a few people out there, one or two even, not known about things can spark back into life as they did at the Gore wedding, for example.
      That’s where a personal tracing system is important.
      Of course plenty of people would be prepared to roll the dice and lift all restrictions at one minute to midnight tonight. The advantage they have is not having to take responsibility for the consequences.
      
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      April 28, 2020 5:00pm
mjw

Just a reminder that we still don’t understand this disease.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/very-worried-britain-issues-alert-as-possible-new-coronavirus-syndrome-emerges-in-children-20200428-p54nqb.html
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April 28, 2020 8:05am
- PhilBest
  
  And one of the things we’re the dumbest about, is the HEVAC angle:
  
  https://ottawacitizen.com/health/covid-19-likely-spread-by-building-ventilation-say-canadian-researchers-working-on-an-hvac-fix/wcm/23adc116-e682-436b-b21a-a1375a0235d5/?utm
  
  https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:23am
  - John Warren
    
    I work in HVAC control, and most of my clients, such as supermarkets, were put into full-fresh air mode for the duration. Only where recirculated air could not be eliminated (mechanical limitations) was it still being introduced.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:14am
- Tall Man
  
  Just remember there is actually little ardern and her misfits actually do understand.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:49am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Chicken McLittles then?
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:25am
- JackRabbit
  
  There is nothing new about HVAC spreading diseases or viruses.
  
  HVAC HEPA filters with tri or quad filter arrangements and incorporating Electrostatic Filters have been around for over four decades.
  
  As a consultant I have had client buildings HVAC systems fitted with them 25+ years ago.
  
  There is nothing new here, except a testament to how incompetent and behind on technology some companies are.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:53am
  - John Warren
    
    Yes, good consultants specify appropriately. Well-designed HVAC systems are no danger.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:16am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And while we are on that subject, Vehicle Cabin Filters are are filters that handle the air for the occupants, not the engine.
    
    These should be changed Annually! I found out the hard way by getting a respiratory infection after the filter material starting disintegrating. It had never been changed since the car was manufactured.
    
    After a discussion with my garage, I found that most people don’t even know they exist, and very few ever get replaced. My garage now includes it as an annual service item, and buying more filters from the distributor than all other garages in his area combined.
    
    So if you travel by Taxi or Uber, or for that matter bus or train, you are breathing other peoples air.
    
    A good reason to use your own car. Which brings me to another point. If your car air con is permanently on automatic, the cooling function strips moisture out of the air. The trouble is bacteria build up on the cooling unit. If you switch the A/C button off, and just use it without the A/C there is often a bad smell for an hour of so. That is the trapped bacteria being heated up and being transported into your lungs.
    
    Ask your garage about getting your car air delivery system sanitised with alcohol spray. I have not found a garage that does it, so you may have to shop around or do it yourself.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:20am
    - John Warren
      
      All excellent advice, JackRabbit, that not many people know about. I not long ago had the dubious pleasure of removing a cabin filter from the 20 year old saloon belonging to a friend. The filter was also, clearly, 20 years old. Not pleasant. To think that most of the air she was breathing when driving came through that thing!
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:25am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Yes they are not a pretty sight. In may case there was almost nothing left of the filter material, except lost of white dust appearing on my dash.
        
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        April 28, 2020 12:54pm
      - Sacha
        
        But think of the immunities she must have developed!
        
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        April 28, 2020 6:08pm
- JackRabbit
  
  From all my research, virus are an influencing parasite, which is why they can be knocked out with anti-parasite drugs, and hair treatment for head lice. So you can forget about vaccines, it is about as likely as finding a vaccine for tape worms.
  
  And as I posted yesterday on cluster infections in retirement homes, many old people who had been vaccinated, still got sick or died.
  
  A key researcher in Wuhan had the virus genome mapped by January 2nd, but was put under house arrest. So the truth is out there, it just doesn’t suit the narrative or agenda that we are in a world wide pandemic.
  
  Wuhan’s facility was in part funded by the US govt. Animals and research was being shared between the US and Wuhan. This includes animals cannibalisticly being fed infected animal remains. It was set up during the previous US Administration. Trump has shut it down.
  
  https://blog.whitecoatwaste.org/2020/04/17/we-won-trump-to-cut-funding-for-wuhan-animal-lab/
  
  https://blog.whitecoatwaste.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/USDA-Kitten-Cannibalism-March-2019.pdf
  
  https://time.com/5555118/kitten-cannibalism-usda/
  
  https://blog.whitecoatwaste.org/
  
  Whitecoat are a group of young ethical law abiding citizens, mostly republicans. Unlike PETA who are self entitled radicals who break the law every chance they get, Whitecoat appeal to congress, and it has worked.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211291/U-S-government-gave-3-7million-grant-Wuhan-lab-experimented-coronavirus-source-bats.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus
  
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/taxpayer-funded-animal-experiments-tied-to-chinese-wet-markets-and-wuhan-laboratory
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:23am
- Surely Knott
  
  Meanwhile in NZ where school holidays have ended and the want kids back to school they are reversing the advice and saying that kids are unlikely to be greatly affected by the virus, but Covid has an “INABILITY TO SPREAD THE VIRUS.”
  When did they decide that children can’t spread the virus? Reference? Because the kids have missed their school holidays due to lockdown and have been unable to play with their friends. If they couldn’t spread the virus why couldn’t they play with the other kids on the street or on playgrounds, or a game of basketball.
  It’s the first day back to school, and now stuff ‘s experts conveniently tell us that kids don’t spread it and kids aren’t affected. Which brings up other questions: should i let the kids do the grocery shopping today, can the kids visit gran, how do we explain the marist cluster, why did we pay for all that at home internet and computers if school is “as safe as it’s ever been.”
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121291657/coronavirus-reopening-schools-as-safe-as-ever-health-experts-say
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:23am
  - MCos
    
    There are 94 cases in the Marist College cluster and from what I understand about a dozen of those are pupils, none of whom was the instigator.
    
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    April 28, 2020 5:28pm
I remember when

Last nights Covid-19 combined MOH and Worldometer figures:
1469 Cases 1122 Confirmed 347 Probable Cases
19 Deaths 7 In Hospital 1 Critical/Serious
1180 Recovered 2770 Active Cases
So how many of the Probable Cases are Recovered, Active or In Hospital?
Are they Probably Confirmed, Probably Active, Probably in Hospital, etc.
This morning on the AM show Cinders said, “There may be burning embers of it out there according to Siouxsie”.
So has it been caused by Climate Change?
Have the above figures been prepared using an Al Gore ism?
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April 28, 2020 8:10am
- backster
  
  The statistic you miss out according to ZB news this morning…Southern Cross reveal 30 000 serious hospital procedures and operations deferred….If the death toll from that has not already surpassed the covid number it soon will.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:05am
  - amospicton
    
    And that’s the issue. The PM seems to have tunnel vision about eliminating (whatever that means today) the virus on the basis that you can’t put a value on a human life. That it’s the ‘kind’ thing to do. That is utterly infantile and the logical conclusion to that approach is to ban driving, ban any water based activity, ban cycling, and have unlimited health spending. Hello? The real world doesn’t work like that. Someone needs to explain to her that the cost of saving the weak and infirm from the virus is too high. Far too high.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:39am
    - herb1
      
      But you can put a value on a human life.
      the Government do it all the time . Its currently $4.7m but you expect Winstons nominee to know that its governmenty stuff not fluff
      
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      April 28, 2020 12:11pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    PM’s must have mysterious qualities if they can put up their hands and stop the whole of NZ but that doesn’t work for a restart–too many unforeseen side affects.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:40am
- JackRabbit
  
  Its all propaganda because the stats the public need to evaluate the actual risk are not there. The mortality rate for the lovely low density NZ we live in, of those who die from coronavirus is less than that of the annual flu.
  
  This has all been a storm in a socialist C cup.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:31am
  - MCos
    
    Of course it’s lower because of the lockdown measures. I would expect flu numbers would plummet too if the lockdown went on through the winter.
    Road deaths are also way down, of course, and the air quality has improved all over the world. A lot of people are probably healthier from more exercise and less junk food.
    ACC is probably flush with funds! Pediatric ward occupancy is low because kids aren’t presenting with infectious diseases at anything like the usual rate.
    I suppose people won’t be picking up bugs from their car air cons either if the vehicles are parked up.
    
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    April 28, 2020 5:45pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Susannah (Hat tip to the left. I know how much they hate when people do cultural appropriation) is not an expert on this. She’s a microbiologist. She’s just epidemiology adjacent. It’s like expecting a Massey Tax lecturer to actually understand anything about business. They’re close but it’s better to talk to people who actually know what they’re talking about.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:42am
  - SGA
    
    Everyone’s an epidemiologist at the moment, Lar, there’s plenty here on KB. DPF recently posted a report by an economics firm on epidemiological modelling (to be fair, maybe he would have similar confidence in the economic projections of epidemiologists, I don’t know 🙂 )
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:40am
    - MCos
      
      We learned more reading Kiwiblog for three minutes than they ever teach in school.
      Bruce Springsteen
      
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      April 28, 2020 5:51pm
- Ruahine
  
  The probables are there to boost the numbers. They never say what number of the probables turn out to not have the virus.
  I am very skeptical about the true medical reasons for some of the deaths. When politicians decide to usurp the Medical Profession. Truth becomes questionable.
  They have probably shot themselves in the foot as Australia stats at the moment show a similar outcome.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:31am
- Rachael Membery
  
  We must listen to Siouxsie?
  
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  April 28, 2020 4:36pm
Im Right

Soooo level 3, same as level 4 really!
Can travel further
If a business doesn’t have a mechanism in place where they hand out goods whilst customers not entering the shop then they can open (how many fall into that category?, drive through takeaways aside)
What’s actually changed…..allowed to travel further afield for McDonalds and KFC it seems!
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April 28, 2020 8:10am
- SGA
  
  If a business doesn’t have a mechanism in place where they hand out goods whilst customers not entering the shop then they can open (how many fall into that category?, drive through takeaways aside)
  
  I don’t know – there is a local small restaurant nearby that has always had a takeaway service. I’m assuming that they’ll just do something like prop open their front door, put a table there with the cash register etc, people will phone in their order, drop by and pick it up and pay for it. Would that work?
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:35am
  - Don Beckett
    
    But no face to face – payment on line probably.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:17am
    - peterwn
      
      Paywave.
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:51am
  - tf78
    
    You can use eftpos in the supermarket, why not at your local restaurant – none of this makes any sense.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:25am
    - greybeard
      
      Maybe it is not all about the payment side of things but the closeness of staff to each other, staff who are from different “bubbles”.
      I don’t know, I just think the whole thing has been a political football at a fantastically convenient time for the CoL.
      Until CV-19 arrived they had been under all sorts of pressure, and there had been talk of an early election.
      You know those cricket matches where “Rain saves xxxx” ?
      Well, “CV-19 saves the CoL”.
      
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      April 28, 2020 10:18am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Maybe, maybe not
        There is time for reflection, before the election
        There is time for economic pain, before the election
        There is time for remembrance of past failures (house, trees), before the election
        There is time for review of covid19 performance without the interference of the MSM, before the election
        
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        April 28, 2020 10:42am
      - Ruahine
        
        We have been witnessing one of the greatest comebacks since Lazarus.
        
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        April 28, 2020 11:22am
- RW Capitalist
  
  and
  for those that don’t like KFC and McDonalds, they have a reasonable excuse, to get out of the house and drive out of their L4 location to KFC, turn round and drive back.
  To view a different scene and at least partially retain their sanity.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:38am
  - Ruahine
    
    Thanks for the tip, RW.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:59am
Maggie Pie

With Parliament back today, QT should be exciting 😀

Question # 1 – “The honorable Maggie Pie”

“My question is to the Prime Minister. Does she stand by all her statements. And actions?”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV4DtVmVAAEIuyc?format=jpg&name=small
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April 28, 2020 8:11am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’m longing for the day when someone replies, “No, I stand next to them”.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:17am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    I liked when John Key said “Yes, as I’ve already stated six other times today” and proceeded for the seventh time that day to drop all of the relevant facts on the asker without any help from anyone. I think that was his 200th QT when the opposition knew it would show up on the news so they all got together and tried to get him. He made them all look like fools so the media ignored it.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:45am
BananaLlama

Eliminate

1. Completely remove or get rid of (something).
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April 28, 2020 8:16am
- tf78
  
  Just like we will eliminate and decimate the COL in September.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:27am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now WHO knew that eliminate was NOT a synonym of eradicate?
  
  WHO knew.
  https://www.who.int/neglected_diseases/resources/NTD_Generic_Framework_2015.pdf
  
  (Page 1 for definitions of control, elimination eradication, extinction)
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:39am
  - BananaLlama
    
    WHO should open a dictionary instead?
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:55am
  - SGA
    
    Now WHO knew that eliminate was NOT a synonym of eradicate?
    
    ummm… I did – the distinction has been in the media for some time (maybe I heard it on one of the press briefings, as well – can’t swear to that). I assumed that some people here were being deliberately picky because that’s what they like to do.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:27am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Well, it’s not clear to some of our epidemiologists…
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/415278/covid-19-new-zealand-yet-to-define-elimination-despite-officials-comments
      
      But University of Otago public health expert Michael Baker told Morning Report New Zealand was yet to create a formal definition of what elimination of Covid-19 is.
      
      Perhaps you could tell me WHO I should believe?
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:01am
      - Ruahine
        
        I think one of Arderns speechwriters will be thinking up a ‘newspeak’ definition.
        
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        April 28, 2020 11:19am
      - SGA
        
        Why would it be necessary for NZ to create its own definition if they are happy to use the WHO one (especially in the case of a global pandemic)? There’s enough confusion about something as simple as recording cases (e.g., as I understand it the Australian # of case only includes confirmed whereas we include probable until evidence suggests it isn’t).
        
        As you well know, areas of science sometimes give words specific meanings that don’t necessarily map directly onto the more common usage. As a general example, many of us use the words “hypothesis” and “theory” almost interchangeably but in science there is supposed to be a distinction. Hence, Darwin’s Theory of evolution is dismissed as just a “theory” as if it were no more than guessing which of your flatmates took the last Tim Tam.
        
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        April 28, 2020 11:20am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Director General of Health Ashley Bloomfield has had to walk back comments made by himself and the Prime Minister yesterday about the country having achieved elimination.
        
        So now we have Dr Bloomfield explaining yet again that eliminate doesn’t mean eliminate…
        
        If your audience isn’t a bunch of epidemiologists, why not refrain from using specialised jargon.
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/415322/jargon-to-blame-for-confusion-over-covid-19-elimination-pm
        
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        April 28, 2020 7:06pm
      - SGA
        
        But Maggie, you’re gently trying to slip away from your original grumble
        “Now WHO knew that eliminate was NOT a synonym of eradicate?”
        As I said, I did – they’ve been talking about the difference for a while.
        
        If you want to change that to “Is what we have now really elimination” – fine. I have my doubts about it too. But you’ve been trying to move the playing field.
        
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        April 28, 2020 7:34pm
oldfella

The SMH yesterday had a headline saying Adern was a Covid-app sceptic, but her govt would still introduce one, anyway. Really? Haven’t seen anything about this on Stuffed. Wonder why.
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April 28, 2020 8:17am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Introduce an app? I would be supportive of that – bad precedent, but a very cheap method to reduce disease spread and we should be all-over any cheap boosts we can get (like masks!!). Problem is that is at least 1-2 months late – like everything Labour has done in this epidemic.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:24am
  - SGA
    
    I would be supportive of that – bad precedent
    
    I would expect plenty about “1984” and “Stasi” on KB if the government pushed that too hard. As I understand it, you need a very high uptake in order for it to make significant reductions in the level of more traditional trace contacting.
    
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    April 28, 2020 11:33am
- SGA
  
  Really?
  
  Yeah, it’s come up from time to time in the daily press briefings. There was quite a bit on it yesterday.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:35am
Komata

Maggie@0811

In a single sentence, all we need to know about the SLG and her agenda.

Well done and thank you.
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April 28, 2020 8:18am
Happychappy

So Nick Smith thinks with help of Tova O’Brien he will have more chance of removing Simon Bridges than those that have tried before. I find it funny that the god brigadeare prepared to commit hari kari to obtain their goal.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/exclusive-senior-national-mp-nick-smith-lashes-simon-bridges-decision-making-in-a-caucus-wide-letter.html
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April 28, 2020 8:22am
- Tall Man
  
  I’d like to see the letter.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:53am
- Philview
  
  Do National have someone sitting back there who could do a better job? I notice that other National MPs come on the radio and seem to be more articulate. Woodhouse, Collins, Goldsmith all speak well but the media will relentlessly go after them so who knows how mentally tough they are. We now have Mugabe Zimbabwe style accountability where the role of the media is to hold the opposition to account.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Time for Nick to go.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:42am
  - curry4me
    
    KecO’Brien: If we’d had term limits in 1990, he’d have been gone by 2005.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:13pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  All Bridges has done, in setting up a separate team to look at COVID-19 policy, is replicate the PM’s COVID Cabinet. Smith needs to pull his head in, and get over it.
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:45am
mikenmildagain

For anyone going back to work today, remember that it is the World Day for Safety and Health at Work (Workers’ Memorial Day). So be careful out there.

Today is also the feast of St Aphrodisius, one of those amusing cephalaphores. When he was executed, his head was kicked into a well, but water gushed out and the decapitated Aphrodisius picked up his own head, and carried it through the city. Townspeople spilled snails on the road and Aphrodisius stepped on them without breaking one! Several stonemasons began to mock him, calling him a madman. They were miraculously punished by being turned into stones.
Aphrodisius left his head at the cave that he had previously occupied. How he then disposed of the rest of his own remains is unfortunately not recorded.
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April 28, 2020 8:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s also:
  The Revolt of the 80+ Day
  We who brought freedom will not be be deprived of it.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:39am
- Ruahine
  
  I am looking forward to the 1st of May.
  World Day of Tyrants and Dictators.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:02am
- coge
  
  “his relics were carried in a procession during times of drought or plague.”[1]
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:41am
- cmm
  
  Fucking nanny state nonsense.
  
  There was a whole lot on RNZ at noon today:
  
  Now remember serfs there is more traffic today so be careful on the roads.
  
  Anyone that needs that sort of advice should not have a drivers license – or be riding a bike.
  
  What next? Remember serfs, air is important. Cindy recommends that you breath in and out.
  
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  April 28, 2020 1:08pm
I remember when

The Great Wrong War – WW1
The war regulations outlawed writing or speaking of any words showing ‘disloyalty’ towards the ‘state’ or ‘disaffection’ with its war.
Francis Hagen, clerk, was convicted of publishing a disloyal statement simply by speaking his mind to workmates.
Same sentence Simon only now it is the court of public opinion.
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April 28, 2020 8:25am
- Komata
  
  IRW@0825
  
  No, the court of MEDIA opinion
  
  Never conflate the two.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:39am
- mikenmildagain
  
  If you are referring to the book by Stevan Eldred-Grigg, then you might want to read a bit more widely. It is premised on the belief that NZ did not need to enter WWI and was, in fact, on the wrong side!
  There is no doubt civil liberties were constrained during the wars, and there were abuses, possibly inevitable under such situations.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:19am
  - Stevan Eldred Grigg
    
    Anybody who hopes to understand the First World War needs to read as widely as possible, I agree. You haven’t represented my book completely accurately, though. The Great Wrong War does argue that NZ did not need to the First World War. It goes on to argue that we did ourselves a huge avoidable harm by joining the war. I don’t argue that we were on the wrong side, unless by that you mean my argument that neither side was in the right.
    
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    April 28, 2020 5:23pm
2ic

So as we come out of Level 4 lockdown, let’s compare New Zealand with Australia, who have still had their construction and retail sectors operating:

CASES PER MILLION POPULATION
Australia: 264
New Zealand: 305

DEATHS PER MILLION POPULATION
Australia: 3
New Zealand: 4

Anyone think it was worth it?
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April 28, 2020 8:26am
- Critical Thinker
  
  88% of New Zealanders apparently think it was well worth it… ?
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/04/coronavirus-new-poll-shows-support-for-alert-level-4-extension-despite-economic-pain.html
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    88% of respondents to an online poll.
    
    Total numbers less than an electorate and selective as well.
    
    Ask respondents if they want a million dollars and their grandkids can pay it back at 13% interest. Betcha that gets a lot of votes.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:02am
    - cmm
      
      Let me fix that for you:
      
      “Ask respondents if they want a million dollars and somebody elses grandkids can pay it back at 13% interest.”
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:14am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    They might not feel that way in 3 months.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:11am
  - Ruahine
    
    88% are also looking forward to the $1500 handout when Labour get voted back in. Well I am. Perhaps I will get myself one of those big TVs to watch the Rugby and the Party Political Broadcasts.
    
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    April 28, 2020 11:15am
- Tall Man
  
  ardern does.
  
  She’s hoping to ride the wave through to September …
  
  https://phandroid.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Shark-Wave.jpg
  
  Remember that 17% “undecided”?
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:57am
- Isobar
  
  I suppose its a long game too, be interesting to see how the countries compare after a year. Its only then when you’ll get a true picture of what the case is. Its really hard to say who will win when you’re only halfway through the first half.
  
  Another interesting comparison would be amount of people full-time unemployed per million.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:10am
- Critical Thinker
  
  It is now known that our level 4 lockdown was definitely not worth it. As Australia’s results are better than ours, with its much more common sense social distancing policies. Plus New Zealand will suffer far more deaths and ruined lives from the shutdown of services, and the economic fallout from our ridiculously inept CoL government.
  
  New Zealand vs Australia linear graph comparison:
  
  https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&country=AUS NZL
  
  New Zealand vs World logarithmic graph comparison:
  
  https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-daily-deaths-trajectory-per-million?country=AUS BEL CAN FRA DEU ITA NZL ESP SWE GBR USA CHN
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:25am
  - Cinematic
    
    But Critical Thinker don’t we get a few extra points for “Going our own way”? Or the other meaningless self-congratulatory verbal diarrhea that has erupted from the lectern over the last few weeks?
    
    14 1
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    April 28, 2020 10:46am
  - Ruahine
    
    We could have safely come out of Level 4 on April 23rd.
    The only reason we did not is that Anzac Day could then not have been cancelled.
    
    15 2
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    April 28, 2020 11:10am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It could have Ruahine, because there are still regulations on public gatherings.
      
      8 1
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      April 28, 2020 11:12am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Yes we could have come out of level 4 then. I guess one positive is the road deaths they saved by having no long weekend. Probably saved more than via the lock down.
      
      5 1
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      April 28, 2020 12:03pm
jaysper

Adern is a silly little girl who is focussed only on her popularity and how woke she looks to the rest of the world.
Lets see how popular she is once everyone realises just how much damage she has done to us as a society.
She won’t care though cos her sycophantic mates in the UN will give her another juicy job suckling at the teat of those people who actually do work and create the wealth she so loves to waste.
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April 28, 2020 8:30am
- Wired-one
  
  Do you not think our media will protect her from criticism? Have you not seen how much of fangirls they’ve been in the last two years?
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:18am
Paulus

Cameron Bagrie one of our most respected Economists had said effectively that he believes that the Wage Subsidies will have to be extended once this tranche is finished.
As we understand $10 Billion has been spent/allocated so far which means that a further $10 Billion may have to be forthcoming for Companies to try to continue to employ staff.
As this will be close to the Election, assuming September remains, should this be referred to the Electoral Commission as it could well be construed as Election Expense (bribe really) ?
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April 28, 2020 8:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Does Cameron want to pay them out of his own pocket?
  
  11 7
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  April 28, 2020 8:40am
  - Paulus
    
    No idiot – our taxpayers pockets !
    
    9 1
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    April 28, 2020 10:55am
- Philview
  
  Cameron painted a grim picture of the economy on QT last night. Strange how such views are largely ignored on prime time news outlets.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The grim economy will be coming to a screen near you. The COL have no idea of what they have done. The restart will not go according to their false hopes. It will be a total Twyford.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:47am
    - jaysper
      
      A total Twyford? Have you just created a new verb?
      It would be funny except that the damage these clowns are doing us.
      
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      April 28, 2020 9:59am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Twyfiord has verbiage without the actuality of a verb.
        
        10 1
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        April 28, 2020 12:31pm
oldpark

Go figure this one . Heard on the Bolt Report last night that the woman known as Tarana Burke who started the anti sexual attacks# “Me Too” Movement on women which also includes fingering on women has endorsed “Fingers” Joe Biden as the next President of USA . Even though an ex employee of Biden named Tara Reade has lodged a sexual assault charge against Biden who amongst other type of harrassment on her also shoved his finger up the complainants genitals .Also have read the campaign for Biden is being run on a digital type of electioneering. I kid you not .Now i read Nutty Nancy Pelosi has also endorsed “Fingers” Joe Biden . Only in America where sexual attacks against enemies of Democrats is all legitimate .
Sadly the same disease of alleged sexual harrassment by “Fingers” Joe Biden has been completely ignored by NZs our so called “holier than thou” Mainstream Media. Yes the bunch of also rans who just got $50,000,000 Million dollars to help them keep pumping out fake news . Also the other pack of media liars and deniers who missed out have put out a begging bowl pleading for a handout .
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April 28, 2020 8:37am
- Philview
  
  I struggle to get my head around the fact that the Democrats nomination process included some capable articulate younger candidates yet Biden has ended up on top. There is something seriously wrong with that Party.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:00am
  - fernglas
    
    The same applied to both parties at the last election
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:12am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It is very unusual to apply the same standards to both parties, either in the US or in NZ.
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:08am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Yeah their process is severely broken. I’m sick of Trump – too much idiocy and tedious backbiting for any good he might be doing, but the alternative being offered to the US electorate is appalling. Biden is corrupt and in obvious mental decline .
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:28am
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘ too much idiocy and tedious backbiting ‘
      
      Yep. I’m with you on that. All the attacks have made him go offensive/defensive- ok for awhile but not long term. Sometimes he should just laugh at them.
      And if you’re going to muse about possible cures or treatments, don’t do it out loud…
      Maybe discuss with Dr Birx off stage.
      
      He’s still better than the alternative though.
      
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      April 28, 2020 10:07am
  - tf78
    
    Killary in the background perhaps.
    
    8 2
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    April 28, 2020 9:36am
    - freethinker
      
      Yes a Brokered convention and Killary is slipped in.
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:30am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I think we have differing views of both “capable” and “articulate”. Who would you prefer, “Spartacus” Booker, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth “Fauxahontas” Warren, Sanders ?
    
    I thought a major issue for the Democrats was that in a wide open field they failed to come up with someone both likeable and sensible.
    
    Biden ends up on top because, for reasons I don’t entirely understand, he is the absolute favourite of the key black electorate in the US. That and he isn’t Bernie Sanders. That he is distinctly senile and has a nasty record of creeping on children is ignored. I may be wrong, but I can’t see Biden surviving to November, his cognitive decline continues and by November he probably won’t be able to clearly state what office he thinks he’s running for. In a society where the Democrats didn’t have a near complete lock on the media, his candidacy would over already. And however they play it, I can’t see the democrats allowing Joe to appear in the Presidential debates, be interesting to see what excuses the media allows them to give to avoid those.
    
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    April 28, 2020 11:37am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I am looking forward to the presidential debates. Both sides seem to be thinking the other will find reasons not to participate. Should be a wonderful train wreck.
      Very few people seem to be able to look at both candidates as horribly flawed. The Americans really do seem to have honed their ability to present their voters with distinctly unpalatable choices.
      
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      April 28, 2020 12:25pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      there were moderate candidates who weren’t born in the 1940’s – Klobuchar, Buttigeig, Gabbard. But the Dem primary system rejected them in favor of a a final field of 5 70-80 year olds and in end selected a near-octogenarian with history of deceit (plagarism), weird fetishist behavior around women, obvious corruption (money funneled to his son) and clearly failing faculties. Sexual assault allegations are just icing on the generally shitty cake he represents.
      
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      April 28, 2020 1:11pm
      - Batman
        
        Now do the Republican nominee.
        
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        April 28, 2020 1:34pm
oldfella

For those of you seeking some light relief, look no further than the green-on-green civil war that’s broken out over Michael Moore’s new doco, currently showing on YouTube.
Here are the renewable energy segments that are making lefty heads explode… https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/civil-war-on-the-left-michael-moore-against-the-greens.php
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April 28, 2020 8:42am
- brett68
  
  The solar power, wind power parts of the doco were so out of date it wasn’t funny.
  
  What was unbelievable and made everyone’s jaws drop open was biomass and what biomass actually is and who’s behind it.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:16am
  - Ruahine
    
    Just reinforces how deceitful and underhand the entire so-called Green movement actually is.
    
    I had a friend who inherited an orchard from his wife’s parents. He decided that organic was the way to go. He maintained that he never used ‘chemical’ fertiliser only ‘mineral’ fertiliser. Sadly the orchard became not commercially viable.
    That is the bank would not lend him any more money.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:37am
    - ex-golfer
      
      Go woke, go broke!
      
      17 2
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      April 28, 2020 10:48am
  - cmm
    
    The real funny bit, or maybe not really so funny, is how UK meet their biomass quota.
    
    They chop down trees (native bush) in USA.
    Then they truck it.
    Then they chip it.
    Then they ship it to UK.
    Then they truck it to the power stations.
    Then they burn it.
    
    Woohoo! Biomass!
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:47am
  - Shunda barunda
    
    Solar and wind power is still an unrealistic joke.
    Plenty of what the doco covered is relevant on both those farces.
    
    26 1
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    April 28, 2020 9:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Get your copy now:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:52am
Maggie Pie

FRONT PAGE:
[Sorry, leave politician’s families out of discussions – Mod.]

Meanwhile…….
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April 28, 2020 8:44am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Whoopsie… sorry bout that.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:14am
emmess

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52436658

So, the coronavirus was eliminated on a day when there were 5 cases? Four days before we had 3 cases and that was the day the lockdown was extended from (not the announcement though)
Makes perfect sense, right?
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April 28, 2020 8:45am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  1984 had 2+2=5, Cindy has 5=0. Doublethink is double plus good.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:30am
Critical Thinker

BBC World News ?

“Coronavirus ‘currently eliminated’ in New Zealand.”

“With new cases in single figures for several days – one on Sunday – Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the virus was “currently” eliminated.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
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April 28, 2020 8:49am
- cmm
  
  Critical: stop spreading fake news. You know damn well that she was misquoted.
  
  She said eliminaded, not eliminated.
  
  You know how poverdee is not the same as poverty, well eliminaded is not the same as eliminated.
  
  And. PS, “currendly” does not mean the same as “currently” either.
  
  Please get your facts right!
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:42am
DRHILL

Stuff have a story on their site about the tran-tasman bubble proposed. And with no information what so ever in the story say “Instead, people travelling between the countries may have to self-isolate for 14 days.”
No experts, nothing from ministers, just a vague quote from the prime minister “If we are in a position where we want to open up to those who are living in Australia currently who want to come into New Zealand but are wiling to quarantine themselves, then that is something we could consider”
This just sounds like a click-bait article to me (why would you even bother opening the border up if you have to spend 14 days either side in isolation).
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April 28, 2020 9:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The only reason you would go through that would be if you were moving to the other country, or at least planning on staying a few months.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:38am
- MCos
  
  Quite obviously Morrison & Ardern have been discussing the practicalities of Australians & New Zealanders traveling between the two countries without the need for a quarantine period.
  This will have a huge benefit for the NZ tourism industry, of course, so the sooner it happens the better.
  It’ll be a long time we open up to China, America, the UK & the EU.
  
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  April 28, 2020 9:39am
Benedict Yu

“New Zealanders have been chatting on social media about the return of their favourite foods, with former prime minister Helen Clark joyfully nominating Thai food on Twitter as her first takeaway meal under level three.

Ardern, her protege, said “the thing that I’m actually looking forward to is really just the chance to support some small businesses”.

“On my local walks … I see first-hand those cafes and places that have been closed down for a number of weeks,” she said.

“I’m looking forward to a chance to – like everyone – show them a bit of love.””

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/we-have-achieved-our-goal-new-zealand-eliminates-covid-19-in-the-community-20200427-p54nn5.html

It is good that Helen can get Thai takeaways again. Sadly there will be many people who can no longer afford Thai takeaways. It may seem trivial but tweeting that you can now get Thai food again, yay, seems out of touch.
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April 28, 2020 9:22am
- Evadne
  
  It also assumes that the Thai takeaway shop she is so generously patronizing with her custom is open, and not already bankrupt.
  
  “Showing them a bit of love” after the event is all very well. But what kindness did she show them when she arbitrarily shut down their business?
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:35am
  - cmm
    
    She’s the (inaudible) that said not to worry about screwing up the economy.
    
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    April 28, 2020 11:12am
- Ruahine
  
  The cynicism of Helen Clark is appalling. Hello Hello. Just discovered small business have we?
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:04am
- herb1
  
  We’ve eliminated Covid according to Winston’s nominee, yet we’re still locked down to save us from the thing that no longer exists.
  Only in Arderns tiny little mind
  
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  April 28, 2020 12:45pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Only if you are of the right.
  
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  April 28, 2020 5:26pm
Michael Rodent

Had a look at the Government Covid wage subsidy scheme last night with $10.4 billion already paid out.

The basis of the scheme was that a business only had to consider that they may have a 30% reduction in turnover – it was not necessary for this to have actually occurred.

There was however a perquisite that the company had to firstly take active mitigation steps which included not having cash reserves they could draw from and additionally that they had taken “proactive engagement” with their bank to presumably use existing facilities or arrange new bank facilities.

I therefore presume that the following companies unfortunately had no cash reserves and no available bank facilities and that their bank had refused any new facilities.
Clearly this is unlikely to be correct – but of course they wouldn’t be rorting the system – would they? :

The Warehouse – received $51.99m
Fulton Hogan – received $34.25m
Fletcher Building – received $67.68m
Harvey Norman – received$12.7m
NZ Rugby Union – received $3.68m
Mainfreight – received $8.07m
SkyCity – received $21.73m

There are no doubt many more which can be checked at : https://services.workandinc…
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April 28, 2020 9:32am
- Ruahine
  
  These companies are directly and indirectly the gov’ts friends. Some are virtually entirely dependent on gov’t contracts or Local Body contracts for their existence. They are also a good source of Union members. So all’s good. Apparently there is still plenty more money left in the ‘pot’ and there is an election coming up. It is essential to limit the numbers of unemployed until after the election.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The companies are not “rorting” anything. The Government offered a wage subsidy, and these companies applied for and lawfully received the subsidy.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Until shown otherwise, one must assume that these companies, like any others, qualified for the wage subsidies. No doubt there will be cases of some businesses rorting the subsidies, but large firms would presumably be quite cautious about the risk to reputation.
    
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    April 28, 2020 12:28pm
  - Michael Rodent
    
    Don’t necessarily agree – they would have had to declare that they had no cash reserves available, no bank facilities available and their bank wouldn’t advance them any further funds. Do you really believe that?
    
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    April 28, 2020 1:22pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    The subsidy depended on a business owner’s *expectations*. If business goes better than expected, no doubt most would be very happy to repay. WINZ just needs to offer instructions on how to do it, and such business owners should not be treated as criminals.
    
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    April 28, 2020 4:11pm
JackRabbit

A must read on how we are being conned:

https://theemperorsrobes.blogspot.com/

https://theemperorsrobes.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-elimination-strategy-bullet-to.html
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April 28, 2020 9:36am
lastmanstanding

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6736562/china-threatens-to-stop-australian-imports/?cs=14231

This is what happens when the West has allowed the CCP economy and military to expand. Over the past 50 years Western Governments have been willfully blind to the consequences.
Students of Chinese history know the people have felt maligned and ill treated by the West over the past centuries.
They have carefully created a situation where the West is extremely reliant on them for trade. Until now it was predicted China would overtake the US as the largest economy around 2025/26.

It will now do so in the next year or two with a weakened US and West ready to be exploited politically as in the article above.
I have previously posted that the CCP will put pressure on Governments to stop any criticism using CCP methods if required.

This is all part of a long term plan with the ultimate goal that New Zealand will at some point in the future become the South West Province.

Scoff all you light. I may or may not be around to say “told you so”.
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April 28, 2020 9:44am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘It (China) will now do so in the next year or two with a weakened US’
  
  No it won’t. China is even more ****** than the US.
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:01am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The world’s two largest economies – both in serious shit inflicted by their politicians.
    
    1 11
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    April 28, 2020 11:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The CCP has also managed to con politicians in many countries (including NZ) into believing that cooperating with the Beijing dictators is essential to their prosperity.
  Trade with China does not have to mean never offending the Chinese government. At present, our politicians are afraid to criticise Beijing, lest their access to easy political donations be cut off.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:13am
Ruahine

Just listening to the lovely sound of Industry whilst having my coffee.
Work has indeed set us free.
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April 28, 2020 10:05am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Like for the Nazi reference…
  
  2 15
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  April 28, 2020 11:15am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Unfortunately, they ruined the statement forever. Originally by a 19th century novelist and before so misused by Nazis it was a valid thought.
    
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    April 28, 2020 4:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Stuff running live coverage of the Epidemic Response Committee hearings -( Small business)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121302166/live-covid19-epidemic-response-committee-latest-updates-on-coronavirus

or Here’s Parliament’s link
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/scl/epidemic-response/news-archive/watch-public-meetings-of-the-epidemic-response-committee/
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April 28, 2020 10:12am
greenfinger

Her legacy will be judged on how well she balanced between saving lives and livelihood. Right now, she is on track for a “F” in saving livelihood. Unlike her photoshopped images these days, even her PR department at NZH and Stuff will struggle to airbrush over the deepest economic depression and highest post war unemployment rate. So, smile and communicate your way out of that.
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April 28, 2020 10:21am
- Evadne
  
  She has saved any lives, either, when you balance potential covid deaths vs. Lockdown deaths (poverty, violence, suicide, addiction, mental health, isolation, cancelled cancer treatments, cancelled surgery, cancelled diagnostic tests & scans, cancelled outpatients & doctors sppointments, etc)
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Don’t you mean “She has not saved any lives…”?
    
    16 2
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    April 28, 2020 11:57am
    - fernglas
      
      Someone should ask her for the name of one person whose life she has saved
      
      8 2
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      April 28, 2020 12:57pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Boris Johnson?
        
        0 1
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        April 28, 2020 5:29pm
    - Evadne
      
      Yes I did! Thanks Tony. Typing on my phone is always fraught with danger.
      
      1 1
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      April 28, 2020 2:42pm
EuropeanCanon

Level 3 is the same as Level 4 except with Big Macs from McDonalds drive thru!! Screw this. Its civil disobedience time
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April 28, 2020 10:24am
RW Capitalist

“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”

Think of the press as a great keyboard
on which the government can play.”

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

“Man only honors what he conquers or defends.”

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Recognize these as a description of Cindy and our current Government(loose description)?

They are all quotes by ― Joseph Goebbels
Don’t let history repeat.
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April 28, 2020 10:29am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Went early went hard?
  large testing
  Media collusion
  virus elimination
  L3 has more freedoms than L4
  Contact tracing is necessary
  “Man only honors what he conquers or defends.”
  If you go outside you are killing granny….
  
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  April 28, 2020 10:35am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Year of Delivery = Year of Devilry
    More Transparency = More Trans Parents
    Went Hard – at thought of achieving a communist state so easily.
    
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    April 28, 2020 10:57am
JackRabbit

Actual Data from Doctors that test show the MSM narrative is wrong.

https://www.aier.org/article/open-up-society-now-say-dr-dan-erickson-and-dr-artin-massihi/

https://www.bakersfield.com/news/two-bakersfield-doctors-cite-their-testing-data-to-urge-reopening/article_eb1959e0-84fa-11ea-9a07-2f2bea880bf9.html

Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLVxx_lBLU&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb6j7o1pLBw
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April 28, 2020 10:44am
Philview

I saw an article today that Royal Carribean is being sued over the White Island explosion. It certainly throws up an interesting set of scenarios on where culpability lies on ignoring increased volcanic activity on the island. Up to the lawyers on that one.
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April 28, 2020 10:49am
- JackRabbit
  
  So there is hope for the Coalition of Clowns being sued for recklessness then…
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:05am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No, not really. It is unlikely that the government bears any specific liability. The cruise line, arguably, should have warned its passengers about visiting an active volcano, but People have been visiting the island at that alert level for many years. Just because there is a low(ish) risk of an eruption on any given day doesn’t mean there is no risk. I believe the government/DoC provide warning info about visiting our active volcanoes.
    I don’t think there is a specific inquiry into this disaster, is there? I assume there will be a coroner’s inquiry though.
    
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    April 28, 2020 11:20am
    - fernglas
      
      Plus any claims here would be covered by ACC. The Australians are presumably suing the shipping company because it is Australian based and they are able to claim for personal injury under Australian law.
      
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      April 28, 2020 11:55am
    - JackRabbit
      
      I was referring to the Covid-19 over reaction that is decimating the economy and livelihoods, and killing people other than through Covid-19.
      
      Aka: Crimes of the State.
      
      “Fools rush in where angles fear to tread.”
      
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      April 28, 2020 1:01pm
Manolo

The Communist Party of China at it again:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/australia-rejects-chinese-economic-coercion-threat-amid-planned-coronavirus-probe/ar-BB13gJnI

Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne has cautioned China against attempts at “economic coercion” as Australia pushes for an investigation into the coronavirus pandemic that China opposes.

Chinese ambassador to Australia, Cheng Jingye, said in a newspaper interview on Monday the “Chinese public” could avoid Australian products and universities.
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April 28, 2020 10:50am
- JackRabbit
  
  China is probably the wrong target. Covid-19 was on the loose in multiple countries last year.
  
  And it is not a pandemic, it is a trojan horse.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:08am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  It will do the Aus/NZ universities a power of good not to have thousands of PRC students attending
  
  11 2
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  April 28, 2020 11:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Our universities won’t see it that way – too used to the flow of cash, ~~holidays~~sabbaticals in China, Confucius institutes, etc.
    
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    April 28, 2020 12:30pm
- BananaLlama
  
  Getting real sick of their shit.
  
  11 2
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  April 28, 2020 11:55am
- kowtow
  
  And therein lies the danger , ever present, of having become so dependant on them.
  
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  April 28, 2020 1:24pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/121293707/radio-sport-signoff-highlights-everything-that-is-wrong-with-sports-coverage

And stuff wonder why they are going broke…
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April 28, 2020 11:08am
- MCos
  
  It was Radio Sport that went broke.
  
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  April 28, 2020 1:46pm
- Garbageman
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/radionz/presenters/zoe-george
  Yep just you typical super woke white privileged chick moaning her way to the top of the alphabet soup pillocks that infest our airwaves
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:12pm
John Warren

Matthew Hooton and one Neale Jones on Kathryn Ryan’s show right now. What a slavish, dribbling Cindy fan this Neale is. Googled him:

“Neale was Chief of Staff to Labour Leader Jacinda Ardern, and prior to that was Chief of Staff to Andrew Little. Neale has previously worked as Political Director and Communications Director in the Labour Leader’s Office.”

Oh well, free speech and all that.
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April 28, 2020 11:13am
- cmm
  
  ” free speech and all that”
  
  Do you really think it was free?
  
  Quite likely he’s a contractor on speed dial.
  
  21 2
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  April 28, 2020 11:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Neale Jones was one of those pitching the “Simon Bridges is about to get rolled” line last week. He’s also allegedly been, in the past, one of the bloggers at The Standard, although I can never remember which non-de-plume he used.
    
    24 1
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    April 28, 2020 12:02pm
    - MCos
      
      I’ve never read The Standard, but going by comments on this forum it’s the work of the anti-Christ and to allege someone has been a contributor is to infer they are henchmen for the devil.
      
      4 2
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      April 28, 2020 1:44pm
      - John Warren
        
        Go and read it. And then you will see that it is indeed the work of the anti-Christ.
        
        2 1
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        April 28, 2020 3:41pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        The Standard is the left wing version of WhaleOil, but with less likable personalities and less redeeming features.
        
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        April 28, 2020 4:42pm
  - John Warren
    
    I do mean “free” as in unrestricted, of course cmm, but I think you might have a point.
    
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    April 28, 2020 3:41pm
I remember when

It’s back to school and early childhood day.
Barb wire entanglements? Barriers and copious amount of coloured tape being put in place. Police whistles (when did anyone last hear one of those?) and two metre rulers?
Principal reads out and makes sure staff understand Health and Safety requirements.
On Wednesday the only pupils to attend will have, collectively, been responsible for every infectious disease the school has suffered in the last ten years.
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April 28, 2020 11:24am
cmm

Now here’s a big problem with experts…

They all say different things and the media and authoritarians exploit this.

Yesterday we had one of our experts saying it was just as safe for kids to go back to kindy and school as it was before Covid19. Now that is clearly false, even if there is a tiny danger it is not as safe.
Sure, they are very unlikely to be impacted, but using absolutes like “just as safe” are readily debunked. Nobody believes that. All that does is breed mistrust and drive up fear.

Now, less than 24 hours later, we’re hearing from Uk, that there is a possible new coronavirus syndrome in children.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300000387/britain-issues-alert-as-possible-new-coronavirus-syndrome-emerges-in-children

One expert says remove the lockdown. One not-so-expert says give it another 2 months of lockdown.

This all makes people panic. Panicking people generally want order and desire authority to take decisions for them.
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April 28, 2020 11:25am
- chaos
  
  And let’s not forget one of our biggest clusters was a school.
  
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  April 28, 2020 11:41am
  - cmm
    
    A school that should have thought better of having a huge party on 14th March when large gatherings were being shut down.
    
    But, hey, it was “cultural” so no worries, eh?
    
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    April 28, 2020 4:53pm
RW Capitalist

While stitching a cut on the hand of a 75 year old farmer, whose hand was caught in the squeeze gate while working cattle, the Dr struck up a conversation with the old man.
Eventually the topic got around to politicians and their role as leaders.
The old farmer said “Well, as I see it. most politicians are ‘Post turtles’.
Not being familiar with the term, the Dr asked him what a ‘Post Turtle’ was.
The old rancher said “When you’re driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that’s a post turtle.”
The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the Dr.’s face, so continued to explain. “You know he didn’t get up there by himself, he doesn’t belong up there, he doesn’t know what to do while he’s up there, he’s elevated beyond his ability to function, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put him up there to begin with.
Best explanation of a politician, I’ve ever heard.
I personally was reminded of this and inspired to post it here, after seeing Sue Moroney (Sue the Moron) on TV last night.
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April 28, 2020 11:40am
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/27/donald-trump-why-should-america-bail-out-poorly-run-democrat-states/
President Trump is reluctant to bail out
Poorly run states. It’d give them all the wrong incentives.
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April 28, 2020 11:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If he does it just gives the democrats a free ride. Nancy, Maxine, Schiff et all don’t give a shit about their voters
  
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  April 28, 2020 1:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So the downtickers would be happy in a place with needles all over the place and shit on the footpath? Great! Fuck off and live there
    
    7 3
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    April 28, 2020 3:20pm
- Garbageman
  
  Homelessness at record levels dodging needles & human shit on the streets (yes they even have shit cleaning squads that go around with shovels & wheelbarrows which are not funded by local govt) besides being a total whack-job this is her true legacy
  https://www.rightjournalism.com/video-while-msm-talks-about-covid-19-in-pelosis-san-francisco-homeless-drug-addicts-become-real-zombies/
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:31pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwN_lYxefQ0
Fish lady threatens to close Scottish border.
Merkel wants a new tax. Financial Transaction Tax mooted.
Also a new Fourth Reich health care system.
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April 28, 2020 11:42am
adamsmith1922

To change the subject, please look at the issues raised by these pernicious roadblocks
https://adamsmith.wordpress.com/2020/04/28/why-is-iwi-policingaka-vigilantism-being-further-endorsed-by-nz-police/
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April 28, 2020 11:47am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

If you need to be told not to drink or inject bleach or disinfectant, then Covid 19 is not your biggest problem.
You are a fuckwit
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April 28, 2020 12:34pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  If you go to a press conference and speculate about injecting disinfectant, or bringing light inside the body, what would be your biggest problem?
  People not realising you are a genius, or simply not recognising ‘sarcasm’?
  
  4 21
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  April 28, 2020 12:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The biggest problem would be the fake news reporters Mike. They fuck with the message contents and make shit up.
    But you know that already.
    
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    April 28, 2020 1:18pm
    - MCos
      
      Keep digging Otto.
      
      6 10
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      April 28, 2020 1:24pm
      - Batman
        
        To be fair, Steve is more of the mild MAGA person, rather than the type that decks out their car in stickers, waves a QAnon sign at rallies, and believes that disinfectant might be a cure (some people drink MMS so it’s plausible).
        
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        April 28, 2020 1:28pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Seen my Land Cruiser on the Shore have you Batman? Stop and have a chat one day
        
        8 2
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        April 28, 2020 1:31pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Uptick from me MCos. Mike needs digging at
        
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        April 28, 2020 1:33pm
    - cmm
      
      Yup, they crop the video and cut a few seconds out of a long conversation – destroying all context.
      
      I’ve seen them do that with experts here too. So much so that one guy at UCanterbury refuses to be quoted in the media anymore because he knows they will take what he says and cherry pick it.
      
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      April 28, 2020 4:58pm
      - greybeard
        
        Which is why Trump eschews the MSM in favour of Twitter.
        We all know that.
        
        5 1
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        April 28, 2020 5:08pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Mike, since you need to be told:
    
    -Don’t read left wing websites.
    -Jacinda cannot walk on water.
    -No-one in the present Coalition of Clowns knows how to balance a chequebook, least of all Grant Roberston.
    -Money is not created by printing it or adding numbers to a spreadsheet.
    -Global Warming is a giant con.
    -Corona Virus lock down is a con.
    
    This is NOT sarcasm.
    
    There you go. We should not be hearing from you for a year or two. If we do, it confirms that you, like the multitudes who do not know what is right or wrong, cannot think, reason or enter into intelligent debate. Your logic circuits would be broken, and only fire on Word Association, and based on how you feel about what image the Word Association triggers.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:13pm
- fernglas
  
  As indeed is anybody who might suggest such a thing.
  
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  April 28, 2020 1:00pm
- Alex13
  
  I think it is inappropriate to talk like that about the US President, even on KB.
  
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  April 28, 2020 6:58pm
Jack5

Even the right-wing Telegraph, of Britain, is swooning before the Ardern PR squad.

New Zealand on the verge of a brilliant victory, says the headline over a report from Jonathan Marshall, presumably the reporter whose material has appeared on Stuff.

He qualifies the praise of the NZ coronavirus performance by noting with guidelines are still stricter than most nations’ highest alert level.

Marshall brings in Siouxsie Wiles, whom he describes as a former Imperial College London scientist.

The report is behind the Telegraph’s pay wall.
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April 28, 2020 12:38pm
- MH
  
  Until it’s on COROnation st,i’ll await confirmation
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:11pm
- John Warren
  
  Oh, please! Not the Telegraph! It is the final bastion of any kind of conservatism in the non-tabloid British press.
  
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  April 28, 2020 3:44pm
Fletch

Two women have come forward to corroborate Tara Reade’s allegation against Joe Biden…

Now two more sources have come forward to corroborate certain details about Reade’s claims. One of them — a former neighbor of Reade’s — has told Insider for the first time, on the record, that Reade disclosed details about the alleged assault to her in the mid-1990s.

“This happened, and I know it did because I remember talking about it,” Lynda LaCasse, who lived next door to Reade in the mid-’90s, told Insider.

The other source, Lorraine Sanchez, who worked with Reade in the office of a California state senator in the mid-’90s, told Insider that she recalls Reade complaining at the time that her former boss in Washington, DC, had sexually harassed her, and that she had been fired after raising concerns.

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-neighbor-corroborates-joe-bidens-accuser-2020-4
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April 28, 2020 12:53pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I doubt this is going to kill Biden’s nomination. Her needs to address it though, to demonstrate that he can be held to a higher standard than the incumbent.
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:19pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Neither are fit for for the office of president. How; given the awful cautionary example of Trump could the Dem’s come up with someone so bad. US presidential election process is beyond broken.
    
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    April 28, 2020 4:45pm
- cmm
  
  Biden is the perfect candidate to beat Ronald Reagan.
  
  7 1
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  April 28, 2020 5:00pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Politics mas moved on since Reagan’s day. The present-day republicans would regarded him as a RINO.
    
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    April 28, 2020 6:50pm
- barnacle bill
  
  Fletch as at April 28, 2020 12:53pm
  
  Fletch
  It is interesting that they are going on about Bidens sexual escapades, but Trump gets left alone.
  
  Afterall, Trump accusations far out number Biden’s.
  
  I very much doubt that either will wish to bring these accusations up during any debates that they will have.
  
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-sexual-assault-allegations-all-list-misconduct-karen-johnson-how-many-a9149216.html
  
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  April 28, 2020 7:25pm
Surely Knott

The Auckland Conservation Board is made up of iwi and community members who, as required by law, are appointed by the conservation minister Eugenie Sage. DOC says the role of the “Conservation boards are independent bodies that empower local communities and iwi to contribute to the management of conservation areas. ” Given it’s a legally required body and the Green party conservation minister appoints the board members is it really the appropriate place to run political ads. https://www.facebook.com/auckconservationboard/
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April 28, 2020 1:10pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yes, uptick from me. It’s inappropriate, to say the very least.
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:22pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I cannot recall Labour doing anything similar during the 5 Years I served on the Wellington Conservation Board (appointed by Chris Carter).
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:34pm
dave_c_

I hear our head honcho bloomfield, rabitting on, and almost appears to be pushing his replay button.
Nothing he is saying demonstrates why we are still at the top end of level 3.
This is all bloody bollocks – nothing but a cementing of the states power to incarcerate me in my home against my wishes.
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April 28, 2020 1:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Coronavirus coming back next year? No way – it’s not Election year
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April 28, 2020 1:29pm
emmess

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52450692

Um, I know why
Left wing morons trolling
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April 28, 2020 1:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just like they do here
  
  4 4
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  April 28, 2020 2:03pm
Inandout

Hell, Countdown are selling small packets of sultana bran for $6.50 and tissues at $4.50. My wife was astounded they were just placing top prices on everything on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis.
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April 28, 2020 1:53pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Supply and Demand, in real life, lock down and war. Don’t blame Countdown. Blame Frowny Face.
  
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  April 28, 2020 7:27pm
fernglas

So according to the good doctor;
1) We have not eliminated the virus
2) There could be as many cases out there that are asymptomatic as those which have been diagnosed.

So why are they not testing to find out? They have 6-7000 test per day excess capacity. If you rely on self-reporting, then you will never find the asymptomatic cases. How can you claim “elimination”, whatever meaning you choose to give that word, if you don’t know how many cases there are? This all smacks of an excuse to keep us in and out of restrictions at political and medical whim.
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April 28, 2020 1:57pm
- fernglas
  
  From the WHO website :https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/84/2/editorial10206html/en/
  ” In 1998, Dowdle proposed a definition of control as a reduction in the incidence, prevalence, morbidity or mortality of an infectious disease to a locally acceptable level; elimination as reduction to zero of the incidence of disease or infection in a defined geographical area; and eradication as permanent reduction to zero of the worldwide incidence of infection. (1)”
  So they have been using an erroneous definition, to the confusion of the New Zealand public and the world, the only reason for which can have been to make the Government response look better than it really is. And Bloomfield is complicit.
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:26pm
- JackRabbit
  
  1) We have not Eliminated the virus, and never will. Its a pipe dream. If they think it can be eliminated, please point to any version of the flu that has been eliminated.
  
  2) Both Bill Gates and Mx Ardern agree it will not be over until there is a vaccine. They may as well state it will not be over until Hell freezes over. Most flu vaccines don’t work or work reliably. Cluster deaths in retirement homes going back 20 years, have happened in people that had been vaccinated. And Covid-19 appears to behave like a parasite. You can’t vaccinate against parasites, only kill them.
  
  And Hell is not looking like it is freezing over anytime soon. If anything, the recent trespasses on the rights of New Zealanders, would indicate that the fires of Hell are being stoked up.
  
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  April 28, 2020 8:00pm
krazykiwi

Planning to virtual signal? Want the world to ohh, and ahhh about your super-sized diversity appreciation?

Then don’t follow this guy’s example

A Liberal Democrat politician attempting to curry favour by observing Ramadan in “solidarity” with Muslims during the coronavirus lockdown badly misstepped by tagging the Muslim Council of Britain in a picture of his bacon and eggs breakfast.
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April 28, 2020 2:00pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Mistake, trolling or a generous attempt to enlighten and educate? Religions without bacon have a lot more civil unrest than religions with bacon.
  
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  April 28, 2020 4:54pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How about a religion based on bacon?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_United_Church_of_Bacon
    
    3 0
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    April 28, 2020 6:48pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      hamen.
      
      1 0
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      April 28, 2020 8:39pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Yes, a lack of fat, such as you get with bacon, can turn you nutty.
    
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    April 28, 2020 7:25pm
MH

Doris Day pt version,,

I’m dreaming dreams, I’m scheming schemes
I’m building castles high
They’re born anew, their days are few
Just like a sweet butterfly
And as the daylight is dawning
They come again in the morning

I’m forever blowing bubbles
Pretty bubbles in the air
They fly so high
Nearly reach the sky
Then like my dreams they fade and die
Fortune’s always hiding
I’ve looked ev’rywhere
I’m forever blowing bubbles
Pretty bubbles in the air
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April 28, 2020 2:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Police State – created by politicians. Liz Wheeler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NHP8vH37gg
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April 28, 2020 2:16pm
Aunty

The failure of the Swedish experiment continues. They have now had 19,000 confirmed cases and 2,274 deaths. That is well over 20% more deaths than they would expect to get from a very very bad flu season! And still, the numbers grow!

https://www.thelocal.se/20200427/sweden-publishes-new-statistics-on-coronavirus-death-toll?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=onsite&utm_campaign=71&tpcc=se-latest

https://www.thelocal.se/20200310/timeline-how-the-coronavirus-has-developed-in-sweden?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=onsite&utm_campaign=71&tpcc=se-latest

https://www.thelocal.se/20200427/sweden-records-highest-weekly-mortality-since-the-turn-of-the-century?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=onsite&utm_campaign=71&tpcc=se-latest
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April 28, 2020 2:19pm
- fernglas
  
  It’s not flu. Nor is it the plague, smallpox, cholera or typhoid. It’s a virus which largely kills the very old and very weak. The Swedes have made a choice about what would happen. Unlike our spineless government, they don’t see it as some kind of competition but a sensible compromise between saving lives and ruining life.
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:35pm
- Evadne
  
  Yes, but Sweden deliberately chose a short sharp curve, rather than a long drawn out one.
  
  I.e. same number of deaths, but over a shorter period. So it’s occurring just as they expected.
  
  The other European policies are all about preventing excess deaths from over-run health services, by pushing the curve out, not magically vanishing it. They still expect the same numbers overall.
  
  In fact, if you suppress the curve too much, the subsequent waves are expected to be worse.
  
  You can only judge whether they have made the right choice once everything is all over & done with.
  
  They may be out the other side while other countries are having 3rd, 4th & 5th eaves.
  
  They might have the same annualised death stats as other countries, or more, or less.
  
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  April 28, 2020 2:56pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    This is true and is something which is being missed.
    We need to start moving to Population Immunity.
    
    8 4
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    April 28, 2020 3:29pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Iceland is nearing 0.6% CFR – as they are already past Jacind’s redefinition of elimination. Translated to Sweden’s 10million people that is about 60000 dead, though likely closer to 40k due to herd immunity. No way will Sweden tolerate 20x their current dead – about 2 more years at current daily death rate.
  
  But better news is that an ohio prison with almost everyone infected found 95% asymptomatic – sort of inevitable that this sort of result would rise as we have been selecting for asymptomatic strains since we started reacting to this outbreak (symptomatic get isolated, asymptomatic don’t). That might just save our bacon.
  
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  April 28, 2020 3:04pm
Happychappy

For those that haven’t seen the Clare interview this morning of the PM.
https://youtu.be/5By2zM-MKeM
The Lockdown ,Economy and has she spoken to John Key or Bill English.
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April 28, 2020 2:43pm
- Inandout
  
  Happy, she knows not how to escape these Levels, in her pre-school thinking the economy will miraculously self heal. Oh, but isn’t she lovely?
  
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  April 28, 2020 3:22pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jesus Christ this General Debate is infested with leftie trolls and Jacinda psychos. School starts tomorrow, teacher only today. Obvious some teachers are bored as fuck and spent the day on KB.
Go prepare your ‘non paid’ work you lazy indoctrinating commies
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April 28, 2020 3:28pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I just adore your ludicrous non sequiturs.
  
  3 7
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  April 28, 2020 4:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nice to see that you went back to work today Mike.
    Teacher only day
    
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    April 28, 2020 4:54pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      But what have you learned, Steve?
      
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      April 28, 2020 6:46pm
All_on_Red

An explainer for some…
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/how-trump-has-set-economic-growth-on-fire.html

Mind you, it’s ‘had’ set the economy on fire now.
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April 28, 2020 3:34pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Seems a bit dated (2018). Is there more recent praise of his economic successes?
  
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  April 28, 2020 4:21pm
John Warren

We all knew anyway that a telling off from the Princess was no harsher than a scolding from your pet Pomeranian, but Deborah Russell has, in another demonstration of stupidity, opened the lid on the boss’s strict disciplinarian practices.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/video/mikes-minute-deborah-russell-exposes-jacinda-arderns-weakness/

Now Steve, let’s see what the leftie trolls and Cindy Psychos have to say.
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April 28, 2020 3:39pm
- Tall Man
  
  I liked his usage of “shabby superficiality. Describes ardern to a T.
  
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  April 28, 2020 6:06pm
mikenmildagain

Freed from level 4, Lower Hutt citizens have celebrated with an impressive traffic jam on High Street, with the tail back from KFC.
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April 28, 2020 4:19pm
IndividualResponsibility

Ruahine – I’m with you re scepticism about why lock-down level 4 included ANZAC day when it needn’t have. Remember, Clark hates RSA, as evidenced by –
Clark (and Phil Goff) recorded spitting on returned Vietnam vets in a parade at Auckland.
Clark government banning smoking in bars and restaurants – all but decimated some RSA’s.
Clark government decimating the combat wing of RNZAF to the total detriment of any serious contribution to RAAF.
Clark is clearly one of the puppet masters pulling Ardern’s strings (vis her fawning interview with The Atlantic magazine extolling J.A.)
Lastly, Ardern cancelled ANZAC Day April 25th 2018 due to “risks” associated with events at Christchurch on March 15th despite the perpetrator being banged up in prison!
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April 28, 2020 4:20pm
- MT_Tinman
  
  I’ve seen comments like this before.
  
  IR, you’re not just talking pure shit but you have your facts, supposedly supporting that shit, wrong.
  
  e.g. How can your girlfriend have cancelled ANZAC Day 2018 when the ChCh massacre didn’t happen until March 15, 2019?
  
  I suspect you are a Labour plant attempting to portray honest New Zealanders as a bit thick.
  
  Certainly you are.
  
  Incidentally I attended an ANZAC dawn service April, 25, 2019 – just north of Christchurch.
  
  I expect honesty from the right – you fail!
  
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  April 28, 2020 5:38pm
- chaos
  
  ANZAC day wasn’t cancelled last year, still went ahead just with reduced services. As for this year I remember the stand up where Bloomfield was asked if it was possible level 3 would be delayed a week to reach gold standard and he said yes, Arden interrupted and tried to play the yes down and make out that lock down could happen earlier. So I’d say the extension is more to do with what Bloomfield and his side wanted more than ardent.
  
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  April 28, 2020 5:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Those lies about Clark and Goff spitting on soldiers don’t magically become true just because they are repeated for the umpteenth time.
  Nor the lies about ‘cancelling’ Anzac Day…
  The air combat wing – yes, that’s correct. Unfortunately no subsequent government has seen fit to re-establish that.
  
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  April 28, 2020 6:45pm
- doggone7
  
  I challenge you to put up reasonable proof about Goff spitting on Vietnam vets.
  
  I bet you can’t. Goff was amongst protestors. thousands of protestors. Soldiers were spat on. It suits you to to use an urban myth.
  
  In that sense the scummy behaviour of any spitters is no worse than your own. Unless you have proof of course.
  
  At the moment you have “Clark (and Phil Goff) recorded spitting .” The world has you recorded twisting and bullshitting. Unless you have proof of course.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQOQQZt_Rjw
  
  https://nzhistory.govt.nz/anti-vietnam-war-protests-on-queen-street
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79635810/flashback-tempers-flare-as-vietnam-vets-return-home
  
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  April 28, 2020 7:55pm
rangitoto

I read that China has had to lock down the city of Harbin due to a Wuflu outbreak there. The New Tang Dynasty (Falun Gong) TV channel say the outbreak is much bigger than the Chinese Government are admitting.
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April 28, 2020 4:56pm
- MrTips
  
  Not only that, if Wuhan is clear, why is the airport hardly functioning?
  
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  April 28, 2020 5:55pm
Local Miller

I’m really struggling with the official Covid-19 statistics: According to the gubbernmint, as of today we have:
Confirmed Cases: 1124
Probable Cases: 348
Recovered Cases: 1214
This means more people have recovered than been confirmed to have the virus. How can this be, surely some of those recovered cases must have come out of the “Probable” group, in which case they are now “confirmed & recovered”. see should be seeing the probable cases drop by 90, and the confirmed cases go up by 90 to keep balance.
They can’t even maintain their statistics in a reasonable state.
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April 28, 2020 5:35pm
Inandout

David Clark caught moving house under Level 4. Surely he has to be sacked.
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April 28, 2020 6:20pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/300000384/coronavirus-traffic-management-needed-to-manage-mcdonalds-queues
What a lot of fat people .
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April 28, 2020 7:11pm
cmm

Ok, so does David Clark get fired now?

Surely even PrinZess won’t appreciate being kicked in the cuddly three times by the same dickhead in less than a month!
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April 28, 2020 7:11pm
- chaos
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12328085
  
  Health Minister David Clark reportedly moved house while the rest of the country was on lockdown.
  
  Clark was spotted repeatedly between two Dunedin properties during the month-long lockdown period.
  
  He and his family are believed to have recently moved into a new home before the country went into level 4, with the minister seen moving large furniture and appliances as the country went into the mandatory nationwide restrictions, 1 NEWS reported.
  
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  April 28, 2020 7:21pm
  - chaos
    
    * The Prime Minister’s Office says its view is that it’s not outside the rules and is issuing a statement shortly.*
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/health-minister-david-clark-moves-house-during-covid-19-lockdown.html
    
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    April 28, 2020 7:31pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Sounds like a beat-up to me. Essential worker, place of work, no one outside of his bubble, had moved before the lockdown and just carting a few extras as he travels each day, what’s the issue? Having just had kids in house for a month I can attest to fact it is hard to get work done with ankle biters around.
    
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    April 28, 2020 8:45pm
    - John Warren
      
      No UNC, the Health Minister of ALL people should be setting the very highest standards of adherence and example. Instead Clark has established a pattern of behaviour suggesting he thinks the lockdown applies to everybody but himself.
      
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      April 29, 2020 9:10am
- cmm
  
  But still a downvotard thinks what he did was fine.
  
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  April 28, 2020 7:40pm
  - John Warren
    
    The downvotard has been diligently exercising his trade all day.
    
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    April 28, 2020 9:10pm
barnacle bill

Fletch as at April 28, 2020 12:53pm
Fletch
It is interesting that they are going on about Bidens sexual escapades, but Trump gets left alone.

Afterall, Trump accusations far out number Biden’s.
I very much doubt that either will wish to bring these accusations up during any debates that they will have.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-sexual-assault-allegations-all-list-misconduct-karen-johnson-how-many-a9149216.html
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April 28, 2020 7:29pm
kwkiwigirl

Article just appeared in the daily mail saying children are being admitted to hospital in the Uk with suspected serious Covid related conditions. Just as Hipkens, Bloomfield and Ardern are about to send NZ children back to school tommorrow. Be interesting to see what they say about this. Arden and co now starting to crap themselves about tanking the economy so prepared to risk NZ kids, and teachers, so they can try and fix the damage they’ve done to the economy.

I’m not saying that small businesses shouldn’t be allowed to open, but it just seems a**se about face to be sending the kids back to school first. Of course no coverage of this issue on the now state controlled stuff and Nz herald site.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8264135/UK-says-children-died-syndrome-linked-COVID-19.html
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April 28, 2020 11:10pm

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