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December 22, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 December 2020

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Steve Todd

This article is just in (90 minutes ago): https://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2020/12/secular-power-changing-america/? .

It sets out one “dramatic” example (to do with sex education in Washington State) as to how secular power is changing America.

Another very interesting read. It’s too new for comments – scroll down to the bottom of the page – which are often good reading in themselves – but there should be a few posted during the coming hours.
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December 22, 2020 8:01am
- Simon
  
  Trump was eliminating / greatly reducing poverty in the US. Through tax reduction, ending over regulation, renegotiating trade deals, promoting sane energy options and with drawing the US from unfair international agreements.
  
  Trump is the way forward.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:18am
  - Liberty
    
    What a load of piffel.
    Trump spent his day playing golf and watching TV. Which was the best place for him.
    Because when he did turn up for work.
    He helped stuff the world economies by imposing vile Tariffs.
    The American economy is so large it doesn’t need to be protected
    by the state. American companies should easily compete with china. They just need to be more efficient. Instead of looting and mooching off the government.
    
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    December 22, 2020 12:38pm
- SGA
  
  The changing landscape of religious affiliation in NZ (just FYI).
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand#/media/File:Religious_affiliation_in_New_Zealand_1991-2018_-_line_chart.svg
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:24am
  - Harriet
    
    At Federation in 1901 in Australia the % of Catholics was 25%. And for the last 40yrs the media, education and the left wing politely have all stated that the nation is now becoming less religious as time goes by.
    In 2015 the % of Catholics in Australia was 27%. This is due to immigration. Australia also now has Buddhists and Hindus, in the hundreds of thousands, maybe even a million or more.
    But you won’t hear about any of that — you’ll just continue to hear about homosexuality, feminism and the religion of peace.
    
    And all that is due to deflection — as the George Pell saga has ONLY JUST BEGUN. 😎
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:07am
    - SGA
      
      At the 1986 census, 12.7% of Australians said they had no religion. In 2016, it was 30.1%. To me, that sounds as though it has steadily become less religious. Not so?
      
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      December 22, 2020 11:55am
      - Harriet
        
        That still leaves 70% that could be religious, or supportive in 1986.
        
        Anyway, your question is the point I’m making – from 1970 on Catholicism was reducing from the 1901 25% but since the 90’s immigration has moved it up to 27%.
        Also, Buddhists and Hindus were hardly counted in 1986 where today there probably is a million or more. This then means the entire 70% have a very good chance of being religious, and to some degree – more devout.
        You will also find the ‘no religion’ people are very young – or at least the vast majority are. I’m not saying these people may become ‘born again’ later in life but the old adage “In your youth you are a Labour supporter but by 40….” meaning that these people may not be ‘openly hostile’ towards religion at 40…..like youth can be.
        
        As an aside. The Pell/Catholic hatred has been in Victoria for a decade or more. Don’t single out states is good advice. Cheers.
        
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        December 22, 2020 2:47pm
      - SGA
        
        To be honest, I’m not entirely sure what you are going on about. The number of people reporting as non-religious rose from 12.7% (1986) to 30.1% (2016) – Australia became less religious in that sense. The large drop was Christianity – from 73% to 52.1% – even Catholics dropped a little from 26.1% to 22.6% (not sure where you are getting your 27% from?). The number of people in other religions has gone up, but that doesn’t affect the large increase in those who report no religion.
        
        Them is the numbers, Harriet. If you want to take solace in some idea that those remaining are more “devout” in some sense (better at praying, or something), then good luck to you.
        
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        December 22, 2020 8:03pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      A few years ago, I stumbled across this: Catholics in Victoria comprise 35% of the population.
      
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      December 22, 2020 12:09pm
- Nukuleka
  
  The key to this article lies in the final paragraph- that the USA will be a better place without the moralizing force of Christianity. The irony is, of course, that secularism simply replaces one set of moral imperatives- ones based on concepts such as ‘Love they neighbour as thyself’ and ‘Judge not lest ye be judged’- with a far more rigorous and less tolerant ones. And it increases the power of the nanny state in the process.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:58am
  - Swifty
    
    I’d like to put in a plug for us non-believers, Nukuleka, who are also anti-big state, anti-socialist, pro-free speech, freedom lovers.
    
    Unfortunately I get mis-labelled all the time (and I’m sure I’m far from alone) – in that as I hold a number of belief’s which are broadly-speaking ‘conservative’ I therefore must be a member of the Christian-right or a Trump-lover (which I’m not) – or alternatively as I hold a number of views and positions broadly-speaking ‘left’ I must therefore favour ‘big-government, a high minimum wage, the state dictating to evil business owners etc and I most certainly do not.
    
    It’s why I find this whole labelling thing of left or right most primitive, blunt and unhelpful.
    
    And in addition, my latest major gripe, is the left claiming as their own positions which are far more ‘classic liberal’ i.e. right.
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:29am
    - tf78
      
      Swifty, I totally agree – I think the problems of the world today are caused by labels it’s as though some have actually forgotten who they are.
      
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      December 22, 2020 11:42am
  - Fletch
    
    Hmm, OK. William Craig Lane said something years ago –
    
    It would, indeed, be arrogant and ignorant to claim that people cannot be good without belief in God. But that was not the question. The question was: can we be good without God? When we ask that question, we are posing in a provocative way the meta-ethical question of the objectivity of moral values. Are the values we hold dear and guide our lives by mere social conventions akin to driving on the left versus right side of the road or mere expressions of personal preference akin to having a taste for certain foods or not? Or are they valid independently of our apprehension of them, and if so, what is their foundation? Moreover, if morality is just a human convention, then why should we act morally, especially when it conflicts with self-interest? Or are we in some way held accountable for our moral decisions and actions? …
    
    Now it is important that we remain clear in understanding the issue before us. The question is not: Must we believe in God in order to live moral lives? There is no reason to think that atheists and theists alike may not live what we normally characterize as good and decent lives. Similarly, the question is not: Can we formulate a system of ethics without reference to God? If the non-theist grants that human beings do have objective value, then there is no reason to think that he cannot work out a system of ethics with which the theist would also largely agree. Or again, the question is not: Can we recognize the existence of objective moral values without reference to God? The theist will typically maintain that a person need not believe in God in order to recognize, say, that we should love our children. Rather, as humanist philosopher Paul Kurtz puts it, “The central question about moral and ethical principles concerns this ontological foundation. If they are neither derived from God nor anchored in some transcendent ground, are they purely ephemeral?”
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:10am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Like Swifty, a plug for us non-believers in fairy-tales and “revealed” religions. Also, a plug for reasoning – secularism recognises that religious beliefs are no basis (or substitute) for constitutional laws. If you want to have an argument or a war about who has the better imaginary friend that’s fine, but leave me the hell out of it.
    
    The decline in religious affiliation is more to do with growing sentience and an increasing reluctance to be taken in by obviously made-up fairy tales about a god who desperately needs your money, than it is an illustration of how the whole world is going to hell in a hand-cart. It’s not.
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:11am
    - Swifty
      
      Good man.
      
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      December 22, 2020 10:15am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Agreed.
        
        Both you and Loddenthinks have had a crack at me this year, but here we are, in complete agreement on this issue.
        
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        December 22, 2020 11:54am
      - Swifty
        
        Nothing personal my dear fellow.
        
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        December 22, 2020 12:43pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Yep, I know. All good, Swifty.
        
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        December 22, 2020 1:03pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @Steve T what you and Swifty both said, and it shows that KB and KBers belong to a broad “church”. There are some who paint all KBers with the same brush whereas we can agree on some things and passionately disagree on others.
        
        I hope my cracks were more a difference of opinion than anything personal, and if not then I apologise. Go well.
        
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        December 22, 2020 1:25pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Loddenthinks @ 1:25PM
        
        I recall the one, maybe two, comments as being “more a difference of opinion”, but, on one occasion, you certainly did not appreciate me referring to you as “Lodders”. You responded with “Todders”. (Message received, loud and clear. ?)
        
        You go well, too.
        
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        December 22, 2020 4:14pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        There are some who paint all KBers with the same brush whereas we can agree on some things and passionately disagree on others.
        
        That is certainly true – and keeping track of who is for or against which topics (as, forlornly, I try to do) is a tough task.
        
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        December 22, 2020 4:21pm
    - amospicton
      
      I would have been in total agreement with you until quite recently Loddenthinks. Now it seems to me that the crutch that religion has provided is being assumed by the even more irritating climate change, demonisation of Western culture and identity politics. Seems to me the latter may be worse?
      
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      December 22, 2020 2:43pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Christians and other Fundies will steadily take over the USA, because they are the ones who make babies. Amish have gone from 5000 in 1900 to 350000 today. 40% increase in last 10 years alone.
    
    Mormons in the same time period have gone from ~250k to 16million. 64x ! about 20% increase in last 10 years.
    
    Muslims also grew at about 50% in last 10 years.
    
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    December 22, 2020 2:32pm
- Scott
  
  Fortunately there is a remnant of us Christians praying for our nation. But it has been tough times. The rise of socialism, government control over our lives and the pride of the person who thinks they are good and moral of themselves.
  
  But here is the thing. We are still sinners in need of a saviour. Jesus is the one who forgives our sins and puts us right with God.
  
  Politics cannot save. Race cannot save. Gender cannot save. Climate change cannot save.
  We need God more than ever.
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:32am
  - Swifty
    
    “….and the pride of the person who thinks they are….”
    
    No one tops the religious for the arrogance of their beliefs and statements and the certainty with which they hold their clearly, and self-evidently, nonsensical and unsupported positions on matters.
    
    No one.
    
    Think about it Scott – it is the only the religious who say that they know exactly how and why the universe was ‘created’, by ‘whom’ and when etc.
    
    And not only that, many say they also know what this ‘creator’ thinks on all matters of human affairs.
    
    And when pressed for evidence for these startlingly fantastic claims their reply? “Oh, I’ve got this book written by men a couple of thousand years ago.”
    
    I was thinking earlier this morning, about another matter, that I really hope there aren’t aliens watching us. They’d be laughing their tits off at the arrogance and grandiosity of some of our fellow primates.
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:06am
    - Scott
      
      Here is my word to you swifty. You don’t know what evidence you would accept for Christianity. You don’t know.
      So here is evidence. Go to any Christian church. This week. Ask the person sitting next to you, are you a Christian? If they say yes, ask them what difference has your faith made in your life? Listen to the answer. Then ask them can anyone hear verify what you have said? If yes, listen to that person.
      
      Then you have a testimony backed by a witness. That is evidence.
      
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      December 22, 2020 10:32am
      - Swifty
        
        Scientologists will also say that their ‘religion’ has helped them. Does that make their ‘religion’ true?
        
        The Hindus will say how Lord Krishna helped them through tough times. Should we all now pray to Krishna?
        
        Same goes for the Rastas, the Muslims, the Jews etc etc etc.
        
        Your argument proves nothing unfortunately.
        
        You are right, of course, that this constitutes ‘evidence’ but, as I’ve said, they all say the same and they can’t all be right.
        
        It is ‘evidence’ that carries no weight and can be dismissed.
        
        Many swear black and blue that the earth is flat. Does them doing so make it true? No, of course it doesn’t. What it means is that people can and do sometimes have dearly-held beliefs that are nonetheless wrong.
        
        They are misguided and/or operating under a delusion.
        
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        December 22, 2020 10:50am
      - Harriet
        
        Swifty #
        
        The Supreme court can tell you all it likes about the rule of law…..evidence……
        
        But it is the army who will tell you that Supreme Law is the Welfare of the People — In God they Trust for We the People — Western armies have stood this ground since the Crusades. Light and Good Order; General Pinochet was spectacular, General Schneider was dark and disordered.
        
        SPQR. 😎
        
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        December 22, 2020 11:16am
      - Scott
        
        What I have given you is a prophetic word. God will speak to you through the scenario I’ve given you. That’s a prophetic claim. If you are not prepared to converse with a Christian and hear testimony then your mind is closed.
        This is a word to you that God has asked me to bring you. Test and see. If the word is right then God will bring you a testimony and a witness that will speak to you. That’s my word to you.
        Scott out.
        
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        December 22, 2020 12:22pm
      - SGA
        
        Scott, you are ducking his question. As he points out, you can ask the devout of any faith (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, even Scientologist) and get similar answers. It’s evidence of their (and their community’s) faith, not evidence of the validity of what they beliefs (unless you believe that Scientology is as valid as Christianity based on this evidence).
        
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        December 22, 2020 12:45pm
      - Swifty
        
        “If you are not prepared to converse with a Christian and hear testimony then your mind is closed.”
        
        That is most unfair of you to say that my mind is closed. And I have conversed with Christians at length and in real depth – tens and tens of them.
        
        The fact that I have not signed up to religion is not that my mind is closed, it is that I find all the arguments for God totally unconvincing. I can now add that “my mind is closed” to the list of other bullshit arguments and claims other Christians have used on me to try to get me over to their side.
        
        “Oh Swifty, you just need to do your research. Research the Bible and you will come to know….”
        
        “Oh Swifty, you just don’t want there to be a God, so that you can keep on with your sinful ways and lifestyle…”
        
        “Oh Swifty there are a billion Christains in the world. Are you saying that they’re all wrong?”
        
        “What I have given you is a prophetic word. God will speak to you through the scenario I’ve given you. That’s a prophetic claim…..This is a word to you that God has asked me to bring you. Test and see. If the word is right then God will bring you a testimony and a witness that will speak to you. That’s my word to you.”
        
        Babble.
        
        “This is a word to you that God has asked me to bring you.”
        
        The creator of the universe speaks to you? Personally? Really?
        
        Do you ever realise how absolutely crazed and demented you sound at times?
        
        I ask other KBers – what is more likely? That there is a creator of the universe, who supposedly willed into existence time and space, 150 billion galaxies EACH OF WHICH contain 100-200 billion solar systems but who has the time and inclination to converse with Scott from Masterton personally; or that Scott is operating under a delusion.
        
        I know where my money is on.
        
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        December 22, 2020 1:07pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Scott we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you.
        
        There are literally thousands of “gods” that humans pray to, or sacrifice to, or profess to follow – all, incidentally, for what appear to be reasons of complete self-interest.
        
        You think they’re all rubbish – except one. I believe that if all of them except one are rubbish, there’s a very high chance that the last one’s rubbish too, but my mind is open to evidence I might be wrong. No evidence has yet been presented that this god or any other is real.
        
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        December 22, 2020 1:32pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Swifty @ 1:07PM
        
        Yes, I cannot abide Scott’s insufferable self-righteousness, his piety, and his sanctimony.
        
        For example, this is his follow-up response to me, at General Debate (5:29PM) on Thursday, 10 December (downstream from my posting at 8:25AM, in which I put up an article about America’s post-Christian future (Part 1))—
        
        “I love right wing evangelicals. Heck, I am one!
        “But one small point, the existence of “evil” requires moral reasoning and a fixed set of standards eg child abuse is evil, cannibalism is evil.
        “Without religion and belief in God you don’t really have the luxury of good and evil, my dear chap. In a Darwinist world they don’t exist.
        “You need God. God is good. Evil is taking away from the good. The goodness of God.
        “Just a little philosophy for you to ruminate on there [?].”
        
        All I can say is, thank goodness there are only 38,000+ Evangelicals in New Zealand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand).
        
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        December 22, 2020 5:45pm
  - giltee
    
    I wonder if, at my age, the tooth fairy will leave me money when I lose a tooth.
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:38am
    - tf78
      
      giltee, when I was little I made a whole lot of teeth out of chalk to make some money and I was left a bent threepence.
      
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      December 22, 2020 11:51am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We are still sinners
    
    Ah yes, even the innocent 1-day-old babe.
    
    Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
    Psalm 51:5
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:55am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      What a nasty piece of work that god is, don’t you think? What sort of capricious, sadistic, insecure sort of god would require all babies to be born with “original sin”? I mean crikey, we have a go at all the part-Maori going back a few hundred years and pointing at “colonialism” for the reason they’re so dead-set useless, but “original sin”?
      
      Imagine being so insecure that you make all your adherents believe that their children have, from the instant they take their first breath, a “stain on their soul” from the actions of someone from thousands of years before?
      
      And if it really is a thing, then why did it get made up hundreds of years after the bible stories started to be written?
      
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      December 22, 2020 3:09pm
      - DJA
        
        Also, it is God who is ultimately responsible for ‘original sin’. God creates two people who are ignorant of right and wrong but predisposed to temptation. He does this despite being omniscient and knowing exactly what will happen and what the consequences will be. God places the incredibly tempting ‘tree of knowledge’ smack dab in the middle of the garden where they live and allows a talking serpent to tempt them further (by telling them the truth, unlike God who is deliberately deceptive).
        
        When the inevitable happens (just like God knew it would) he doesn’t accept responsibility for his actions. Instead he blames and punishes Adam and Eve and every future human being for the ‘sin’ of gaining knowledge and overcoming ignorance. Why is it that God is completely fine with genocide, ethnic cleansing, killing infants, slavery, bigotry and so many other appalling things, but when two people seek knowledge and understanding, God considers it to be the worst possible sin, one that condemns every single person.
        
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        December 22, 2020 4:27pm
      - chukar
        
        Perhaps you should read Stephen Hawkins on this subject.
        None of us really know the truth.
        Tell us about black holes and celestial truth, and the fact that everything on earth including earth are made from similar molecules.
        The big question, what intelligence has arranged these atoms to create life? And how is it , that it is that life is not random , that we as a species are formed in a pattern?
        
        Who made us?
        Your call
        
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        December 22, 2020 7:07pm
  - MCos
    
    “The rise of socialism, government control over our lives”
    
    You should have been here before Rogerenomics.
    
    The government dictated petrol prices, wages rises, mortgage rates, on & on.
    A third of the work force were public servants.
    Subsidises on all manner of things, import restrictions & huge tariffs.
    
    The biggest, baddest, meanest socialist or them all was National PM Muldoon.
    Control of the airwaves.
    
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    December 22, 2020 3:26pm
Maggie Pie

Is the ‘Corona-Virus Vaccine’ made from Bacon?

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1340782936241688584
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December 22, 2020 8:15am
- WaynelSexton
  
  It’s definitely made of dead babies.
  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-vatican-idUSKBN28V1HV
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:22am
  - kowtow
    
    So the vaccine is essentially bacon and eggs ……
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:16am
    - Observer of Life
      
      Kowtow: LOL
      
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      December 23, 2020 7:56am
- Ehlana
  
  From the article it sounds as though most clerics (Islamic & Jewish) think it is ok to take but there is a need for positive community engagement. Which I guess is always true, particularly in the disinformation age and given anti-western sentiment spread by those who see advantage for themselves in it.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:29am
- Simon
  
  “Is the ‘Corona-Virus Vaccine’ made from Bacon?”
  
  Drug not vaccine.
  
  Anyway doesnt matter if the drug kills / fucks up more healthy people than covid19 ever could. If Cindy says take it the sheeple will be lining up for miles.
  
  So for all those who say they aint gonna take no bull shit jerry built drug. Dont worry about it the Cindy sheep have got it covered.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:49am
  - tf78
    
    Simon, I read an article by a US chemist and he said from his 30 years of owning a Chemist shop of 40 years of being a practicing Chemist, this is the first year no one has bought Tamiflu. After conversing with others in the business they had the scenario. He thinks there is definitely something dodgy with the COVID tests.
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:56am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Has Tamiflu been around 40 years?
      
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      December 22, 2020 6:56pm
sooty

Dogs chase more cars in NZ, than the police!
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December 22, 2020 8:17am
- muppeth8r
  
  Crims fear dogs more then nz police
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:01am
Andrei

Proselytizers of all stripes are among the most dreary people we encounter in our daily lives – whether they be Jehovah’s Witnesses or rabid atheists.
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December 22, 2020 8:18am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  If you think souls will be saved or damned for eternity based on their choices on earth, doesn’t it make sense to put considerable effort into communicating that to people? When people don’t proselytize it seems to me either they don’t really believe in heaven or are unusually lazy or selfish. Of course I’m a cyncial atheist so I would say that.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:02am
  - Harriet
    
    “…..doesn’t it make sense to put considerable effort into communicating that to people?….”
    
    Yep.
    
    But Jesus did say to move on from the ignorant…….there is more to this world than homosexuals, feminists and atheists……poor people…..lonely people ……misguided people……and mislead people!
    
    You wouldn’t waste your time just like Jesus tells us not to waste our time. 😎
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:52am
Maggy Wassilieff

Sir Winston on the horizon?
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/arise-sir-handbrake
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December 22, 2020 8:19am
- emmess
  
  Arise Sir Treacherous Bastard
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:23am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Can we squeeze “traitorous” in there somewhere?
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:15am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If the PM had any judgment she would not go there. Which means it is true.
  
  He achieved nothing in his career and in 2017 his actions caused immense damage to the country.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:25am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Well, he did introduce the SuperGold Card (which saves me $1,000+ per year).
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:54am
    - hullkiwi
      
      …and costs you how much in increased costs at the till and taxes?
      
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      December 22, 2020 10:44am
      - muppeth8r
        
        Thats too hard to explain to muppets. Its free is all that matters
        
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        December 22, 2020 11:21am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Given that the cost is spread out over, what, 3.5M taxpayers, bugger all I would think.
        
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        December 22, 2020 12:30pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      In my 12:30PM reply, I probably should have said “5M people”.
      
      Regardless, hullkiwi, here’s the thing. The SuperGold Card costs the taxpayer about (say) $30M a year.
      
      But, think what getting the nation’s Seniors out of their homes, and into town on the buses, free of charge, to buy stuff, is benefitting the economy? That benefit must be way more than $30M a year.
      
      Wouldn’t you agree? Why else did the Key-English administrations not get rid of it?
      
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      December 22, 2020 7:50pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Regardless of his chicanery, lies, corruption, obfuscation and bluster, the reality is he did act as an effective handbrake on some of the more dangerous actions our PTPM would otherwise have taken.
    
    The CGT, Ihumatao deal and repeal of the 3-strikes law are 3 that spring to mind. So he’s not so much a creator (though here in Tauranga we like the second harbour crossing he got us) but more someone who managed to prevent some of the worst excesses of a schoolgirl PM miles out of her depth.
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:16am
    - kowtow
      
      Oh come on , giving credit to the guy for being a hand brake when he put the driver in charge?
      
      25 1
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      December 22, 2020 10:17am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        The irony’s not lost on me, and the down-tick wasn’t from me – I ticked the up-side.
        
        Even though politics makes for strange bed-fellows, I do believe the actions of some of the National Ministers leading up to the election (plus of course his hatred of Bill English and Steven Joyce), and their arrogance immediately following it, made it a very strong likelihood that would be the outcome. You’re right though, it doesn’t make it righ.
        
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        December 22, 2020 3:28pm
- pdm
  
  Can probably live with Sir Winston – just.
  
  But Sir Trevor is a big fat NO WAY!!!
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:25am
  - Colville
    
    Recent events have shown how far Cindy will go to protect Mallard to thank him for his utterly biased actions as Speaker.
    
    If you dont think He is going to get a gong upon retirement then I have a slightly used bridge to sell you!
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:11am
  - Swifty
    
    Sir Trev, as Speaker, is automatic.
    
    11 4
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    December 22, 2020 9:14am
    - trout
      
      Mallard has indicated that he is unlikely to see out this term as speaker. Will retire in the hope of a Gong and an appointment as ambassador to the UK in return for services rendered to the Party. Worst Speaker since Margaret Wilson.
      
      34 3
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      December 22, 2020 9:38am
      - Swifty
        
        Really, he said that?
        
        And agreed, I’ve no time for the man.
        
        His petulant outburst at David Seymour the other day was appalling. I could just see him talking to his pupils like that, years ago.
        
        24 1
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        December 22, 2020 10:09am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        “Worst Speaker since most of us were born”
        
        Fixed it for you 😀
        
        20 2
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        December 22, 2020 10:59am
      - cmm
        
        Is this one of those fake shows of modesty like when Cindy said she was not going to be PM because she wanted to make babies.
        
        Then they begged her and she relented…
        
        No doubt they will beg Trev to stay on….
        
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        December 22, 2020 11:06am
- mandk
  
  Please no.
  
  He achieved very little for all his time in Parliament, and his probity has often been in question.
  
  27 2
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  December 22, 2020 8:30am
- Positan
  
  Peters blew any chance he might ever have had of a “K” in 2017 when, for blindingly obvious reasons of personal aggrandisement, he chose coalition with the lower-polled Labour Party instead of National. His decision to go with Labour (a party so certain it wouldn’t be elected in 2017, it hadn’t bothered to formulate a single policy) has resulted in irreversible economic /moral damage to the very fibre of our country that by any measure can only be deemed “catastrophic.”
  
  To consider someone who has never displayed any of the seven knightly virtues, honouring the non-achieving, self-importance-obsessed Peters besmirches the very substance of the honour and serves to undermine the very real achievements of far more deserving knights, past and present.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:57am
  - cmm
    
    Cullen got sirred and look what he did!
    
    7 1
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    December 22, 2020 11:06am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Yes, voted for the abolition of knighthoods, for one!
      
      3 0
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      December 22, 2020 3:30pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        The hypocrisy is strong in that one
        
        1 0
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        December 22, 2020 6:58pm
  - Paulus
    
    Winston will get a gong because it was part of the secret agreement between him and our PTPM to gain power.
    Anything at any cost and look where it has got us – and this is as good as it will get – wait and see next years.
    
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    December 22, 2020 1:38pm
  - tf78
    
    Positan – well maybe he can get knotted instead.
    
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    December 22, 2020 8:12pm
- peterwn
  
  It is probably in the secret coalition agreement. Also, Jacinda would have benefited from having skilled hands to help her in the first few years of the coalition.
  On the other hand, Leister Piggot a British jockey who rode some of the Queen’s horses nearly got a knighthood on his retirement but tax issues came to light and instead was Her Majesty’s guest for several months.
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:03am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I was living in the UK when this all came to light, and it produced a number of off-colour, if hilarious, jokes. For example: what’s black, weighs 19 stone, and rode the Derby winner? Lester Piggott’s cell-mate. Probably can’t tell those kinds of jokes any more…
    
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    December 22, 2020 3:34pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    We can but hope
    
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    December 22, 2020 6:59pm
- Nickc2
  
  He still owes money to the NZ taxpayer. A Knighthood should be out of the question, likewise an ambassadorship.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:09am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Does his companion become Lady Peters, Lady Trotman, or just companion Jan?
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:14am
  - yossarian
    
    Winston still doesn’t know who she is?
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:59am
    - chukar
      
      Knighthood requires real integrity.
      Does this man
      
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      December 22, 2020 7:48pm
Simon

The NZ China “David Irving” Free Trade Agreement.
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December 22, 2020 8:20am
- SB2
  
  “David Irving” the Holocaust denier??
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:44am
Aunty

As predicted, the Covid situation in the US is continuing to worsen to the most serious levels due to the mass gatherings and travel that took place over Thanksgiving weekend.

“I’m not going to sugar-coat this, we are getting crushed,” Los Angeles County chief medical officer Dr Brad Spellberg said at a media briefing on Friday.” https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-a-death-every-30-seconds-as-us-health-system-crushed/HHJ4CJENNDPHGW7EYW5TXYIZPU/

That is a quote from the chief medical officer of Los Angles county, and America’s second largest city.

Note, that it is not a quote from the usual ignorant irresponsible kiwiblog covidiot nutjobs and their whacko websites. No, that is a quote from the coalface, becuase that is how it is. That is what is happeneing on the ground there, and right across America and in Europe too. The next 6-weeks are going to be awful.
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December 22, 2020 8:20am
- NoFax
  
  But LA has the most strict lockdowns in the entire US so there must be some mistake Lockdowns save lives and you are a conspiracy theorist who dares to disagree. Surely you mean one of the more open States – where the nutjobs and wackos live?
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:51am
- rangitoto
  
  It’s a bad cold. They are crushing themselves.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:17am
- krazykiwi
  
  The next six week are going to be lovely, but only momentarily ruined each time you screech like a convulsing parrot about ‘usual ignorant irresponsible kiwiblog covidiot nutjobs and their whacko websites’.
  
  So take a deep breath and take a break, Aunty. You need it.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:27am
  - Aunty
    
    Ignorant and irresponsible covidiots, krazy? I’m looking right at you!
    
    4 12
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    December 22, 2020 10:55am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Sheesh Aunt Helen, please find something to grip.
  
  When I worked in the NHS for 2 years in the late 80s we had no beds at all in the winter flu season and corridor patients were always a thing back then.
  
  What’s happening now is a casedemic not a pandemic. Hospitals are hammered because (a) flu, (b) shortages of staff who have to quarantine for 2 weeks after a positive test / contact (c) catching up on all the usual but missed and ignored pathology that incubated and worsened during the lockdowns and (d) effwit politicos of all stripes spreading FUD.
  
  Note that the so-called “70% more infectious strain” has NOT even been isolated let alone proven to be so in experimental studies. Another effing computer modeller plucked this figure from his terminal sigmoid and ran it through Windows 10… the 70% is a modeled figure… but we’re running and ruining people’s lives based on it. Again.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:02am
muppeth8r

Such a big emergency declaration and the silence following it has been deafening.

It didnt get cindy the invite she so desperately wanted, infact it contributed to her shunning. Even more embarrassing she got trolled by an autistic lil brat the world hates and yet the brat was correct and added shame to cindy and NZ.

I despise local councils but kudos to those that resist the urge to virtue signal, the greeny twat down here in southland once again tried to get ES to declare an emergency but thankfully they havent quite transitioned into fully woke retards.
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December 22, 2020 8:20am
Maggy Wassilieff

Keith Locke highlights a problem with the Royal Commission report into the Christchurch terrorism incidents.

Both Islamist extremist terrorism and extremist white nationalist terrorism are threats we must address. The best way to do this is not by expanding the role of security agencies, but by dealing with the driving forces behind such terrorism – forces that lie deep within our societies.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-12-2020/whats-missing-from-the-report-into-the-christchurch-terrorist-attack/
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December 22, 2020 8:25am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Does anyone take the commo Keith Locke seriously?
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:30am
  - Paulus
    
    Didn’t Locke push to close down both GCSB and SIS when he found that the SIS did not have a file on him.
    He was disappointed.
    
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    December 22, 2020 8:40am
    - Jack5
      
      Keith Locke is sort of from the “royalty” of the far Left.
      
      This was a small group that mostly ended up in the Green Party after NZ’s tiny communist and similar far-Left parties folded when, in turn, Stalinism, Maoism, and finally Albanian communism faded away.
      
      Keith’s parents, the writer-librarian Elsie Locke and her husband, were decent folk in many ways. They were good and active Christchurch citizens, but they were also staunch, last-ditch believers in the Stalinist line of communism.
      
      Unlike many sons who revolt against parents’ staunch views, Keith has remained on the Left.
      
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      December 22, 2020 9:51am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        His past vocal support of the genocidal Khmer Rouge and soviet invasion of Afghanistan tells you all you need to know of the man. Utterly detestably misanthropic in support of his zealotry
        
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        December 22, 2020 9:32pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I recall seeing him run naked up Broadway a few years ago when Rodney Hyde won Remuera.
    I’d probably take him a bit seriously 😛
    
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    December 22, 2020 8:43am
    - GazzaW
      
      He wasn’t naked. He had his bollocks covered and he was wearing body paint. As is usual with Locke what you see is what you get.
      
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      December 22, 2020 8:52am
    - BeeJay
      
      Don’t remember Rodney ever winning Remuera! Maybe you mean Epsom?
      
      14 2
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      December 22, 2020 8:53am
    - pdm
      
      Maggie – if you saw him running naked which bit of him are you taking seriously?
      
      9 2
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      December 22, 2020 9:06am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Sees that he wants to invite Islamist terrorists and White Supremacists in for a cup of tea, a scone with organic jam, and a nice chat…
    
    10 1
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    December 22, 2020 11:04am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  “This fueled a rapid growth of Islamophobia, particularly in the United States, which has continued to the present day.”
  
  In fairness to the islamaphobes, the terrorists since then shouting Islamic religious statements before mass-murder and calling it holy-war could easily confuse them into thinking it was religiously motivated.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:33am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Before my time here but I have come across him. This is the guy that alleged that the security agencies were undertaking “mass surveillance’ on New Zealanders. Him and that author – can’t remember his name – but he looks like he has an unfortunate face.
  
  The Royal Commission demonstrated that there was NO mass surveillance – quite the opposite.
  
  The terrorist was a lone crazy person who grew up in Australia – how is Keith going to stop that happening by being kind? The only way to stop it is better intelligence.
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:03am
  - giltee
    
    Also would’ve helped prevent the massacre with idiots like Adern not changing g the law to make it easier for psychopaths to get gun licenses and weapons. The media have been very quiet on that but what else would you expect:
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111438784/changes-to-gun-law-overseen-by-jacinda-ardern-described-as-crazy
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:58am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      I’m mildly surprised that article is still up. I saved it when it first came out thinking it would soon vanish. But I guess if you pay the mediawhores / Lugendpresse enough, you do not have to shove stuff down the memory hole, as it will never be featured anyway.
      
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      December 22, 2020 11:06am
- tf78
  
  Maggy, I remember the days when that was not part of our New Zealand society.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:17pm
CaptainCompromise

Six o’clock propaganda was trying to tell me gift wrapping using scissors and tape “might look safe” but was actually dangerous according to ACC.

Our obsession with a safety driven hedonism needs to end. The whole bloody point of socialised accident cover is to give us the freedom to do as we please with peace of mind, not to give the state a mandate to control our every action in a desperate bid to stamp out “harm”. Not allowed any fun anymore are we, someone could get hurt.
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December 22, 2020 8:26am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Six o’clock propaganda was trying to tell me gift wrapping using scissors and tape “might look safe” but was actually dangerous according to ACC.”
  
  That is very funny. I poked my eye with a tomato plant stake yesterday. I am going to be much more careful in the garden but I think I will be good wrapping presents.
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:05am
  - Swifty
    
    It’s an occupational hazard for us home gardeners Benedict.
    
    Safety glasses are a good investment or grab some cheap plastic cups and stick them on your stakes.
    
    When I regularly had the kids helping me in the garden I did both.
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:33am
- Flossie
  
  I was waiting for that good ole advice “don’t run with scissors” to be trotted out!
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:32am
- MCos
  
  I don’t think people behave in a a dangerous manner because they know ACC will pick up the pieces.
  It’s more the other way round.
  
  6 1
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  December 22, 2020 9:55am
- tf78
  
  Captain, please don’t lick any Christmas card envelopes closed, who knows what could happen – you may need stitches in your lips.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:19pm
Maggie Pie

Yet another glaring example of MSM’s left-wing bias in its reporting…..

https://twitter.com/RepStevenSmith/status/1340385024403775488
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December 22, 2020 8:33am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  My thoughts were great reporting, you can’t make a silk purse of a sows ear, can report all you like but it is what it is.
  I am sure the downticker must have a seeing eye dog guiding them through what looks wow and what looks woeful.
  Leftards can only see what they want to see.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:57am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Downtickers plural, very active this morning.
    Good to see a ground swell of support for Mike.
    
    17 5
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    December 22, 2020 9:10am
    - sooty
      
      The one on the left is just a tiny, tiny bit podgey!
      I don’t think she should have!
      
      4 1
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      December 22, 2020 12:04pm
    - mara
      
      Mike Obama’s frock was so horrible I thought it must have been a photo-shop joke but it wasn’t.
      
      9 1
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      December 22, 2020 12:33pm
- graham
  
  There are now so many occasions where I feel like I’m living in a live stage version of “The Emperor’s New Clothes”, and I’m just waiting for the “little child” to blurt out, “What are you all talking about? The woman on the left doesn’t look incredible, she looks awful! The lady on the right, now, she looks really classy. Oh and while we’re at it – pregnant ‘PEOPLE?’ Come on, I’m only a kid and I know where babies come from.”
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:09am
- graham
  
  “Michelle Obama Looked Incredible …”
  “Melania Trump’s ‘ridiculous’ jacket …”
  
  *** Looks at both pictures … hmmm ***
  
  Thinking, I’m so glad the media is protecting us from ‘fake news’ …
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:25am
- giltee
  
  I totally agree with you there Maggie. Michelle’s dress is heinous and looks more like some kind of B&D outfit. Melana Trump has class but she’s got 2 problems, she’s white and married to Trump.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

A decided turn towards authoritarianism, to offset popular dissent, is arguably becoming a defining feature of politics in Asia, the Middle East, and South America, and indeed in the democratic West, as well.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/12/19/how-huntington-and-fukuyama-got-the-21st-century-wrong
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December 22, 2020 8:34am
- Jack5
  
  India’s Prime Minister, Modi, may be authoritarian, but not sure how else he could reform India’s agricultural system.
  
  In comparison, Roger Douglas and his team had it easy when they reformed the NZ economy.
  
  Watching debate between farmer representatives and an Indian Minister on Al Jazeera was enlightening, with one of the surprising aspects the high English-language skills all round. India knows the value of the language as a bridge across its internal cultures.
  
  Indian economic reform is relevant to India’s potential as an export market for NZ – provided we have enough food left to sell at the end of our immigration surge.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:57am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    India does not need to reform its Agricultural system.
    
    Most of farming is in private hands.
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:50am
    - Jack5
      
      SB2 (aka Stephie), I can deduce only one reason you would defend India’s protected agriculture: it must be as backward as that of ?Stephiestan.
      
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      December 22, 2020 10:12am
  - Swifty
    
    Well said Jack5.
    
    And ignore that other poster, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, India’s agricultural sector is in dire need of reform – just ask the long-suffering Indian taxpayer who’s pocket is regularly picked to prop up inefficient and environmentally damaging farming practices.
    
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    December 22, 2020 10:13am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  More importantly from my country’s POV – how Shaun Hendy was so blindingly wrong and should be laughed at and jeered when he shows himself in public.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:08am
Swifty

A sneak peek at Peter Jackson’s latest work; The Beatles – Get Back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocEGvQ10OE
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December 22, 2020 8:40am
Jack5

Who is franchising the self-flogging, racist, click-bait apologies which have been picked up by NZ’s Stuff?

The Kansas City Star, where Hemingway was once a reporter, has apologised for having “disenfranchised, ignored and scorned” generations of Black people in Kansas City.”

The madness began when the the Los Angeles Times in September apologised for being, for at least 80 years, an institution that was “deeply rooted in white supremacy.”

The Los Angeles Times also apologised for a series published in 1981 that it said reinforced stereotypes Black and Latino Angelenos were “thieves, rapists and killers” and implied that the only effective responses to crime were more aggressive policing and harsher sentences.

Jack5’s recommended holiday reading in a country racked with pandemic and psychoneurotic apology syndrome: Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, by Charles Mackay, first published 1841. ?
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December 22, 2020 8:45am
- IC5000
  
  > Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, by Charles Mackay, first published 1841
  
  Sounds like required reading for every Trumpist here. Maybe they will snap out of it
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:35am
Notsofast

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
This sums up the National Party, Shane Te Pou today

“You’re lucky I’m a Christian,” Judith Collins said to me, like a bolt from the blue, in a radio studio the other day.

I was incredulous. “Why’s that, Judith?”

“That way, I can forgive you,” she replied.

“Forgive me for what? I’m not seeking your forgiveness.”

Instead of elaborating, she turned to the other panellists to tell them what kind of person I was. Much awkward shuffling ensued.”

Christians and pitchforks.
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December 22, 2020 8:47am
- Nostradamus
  
  Christians and pitchforks.
  
  And Mark Lundy.
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:14am
  - Jack5
    
    Not sure of the point Mark’s trying to make about Te Pou.
    
    The man’s background: Shane Te Pou is a former candidate, campaign manager and executive member of the Labour Party, and a former union official.
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:21am
    - Nostradamus
      
      Jack5:
      
      I think that Notsofast (in his mind) is trying to make a point about Judith Collins. His Kiwiblog comment history indicates that he’s not a fan of Judith Collins – although, to be fair, on that same thread he said: “Jacinda Ardern is doggy deep in the Lundy hoax and must be called to account”.
      
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      December 22, 2020 9:34am
  - Notsofast
    
    Yes and Mark Lundy. The system works said Amy Adams, and the christians and pitch forkers voted against the CCRC. Let us see how that turns out.
    All those that wished the case dead and buried will endure another couple of years of revelations till the case is reopened and the killer is reeled in by his dna.
    That is not from where the sun don’t shine.
    Thanks seer for bringing it up.
    
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    December 22, 2020 9:24am
    - Jack5
      
      “CCRC” is the (British) Criminal Cases Review Commission.
      
      Your 9.24 post is a bit cryptic, Mark. Can you elaborate on it?
      
      [Mod. Note: This is the second time today you feel immune from breaking the comment rules.
      Please take more care.
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy :Personal Details ]
      
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      December 22, 2020 10:05am
      - Jack5
        
        Fair enough: a guess and mental slip on my part.
        
        I do not know the identity of Notsofast.
        
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        December 22, 2020 10:36am
- David George
  
  I saw that article but don’t have access and your brief summary hardly justifies the extravagant headline. What, as honestly as you can manage, is Te Pou’s beef with JC.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:44am
  - igm
    
    Collins is a succesful person, Te Pou is yet another socialist leech having no claim to anything of success, other than living out of public troughs!
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:56am
- Ruahine
  
  Shane Te Pou likes to dish it out but he can’t take it.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:16am
  - Jack5
    
    The Herald article describes Te Pou as a director of Mega Ltd.
    
    According to the Companies Register Te Pou is not a director of Mega Ltd, and is not included in the list of former directors.
    
    The register lists more than 200 companies with “Mega” as part of their name, and I’m not going to trudge through them looking for a Leftist loon like Te Pou.
    
    Not sure why the Herald should invited this Labour identity to have a whack at Collins. The newspaper seems to have given up trying to appear impartial.
    
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    December 22, 2020 12:15pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Human Resources ~~Director~~ manager.
      
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      December 22, 2020 2:33pm
- Paulus
  
  Who is Shane Te Pou – doesn’t sound Pakeha.
  
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  December 22, 2020 1:46pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ex- Labour Party chap
    
    Called out Labour over its racist profiling wrt housing investment.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/im-maori-my-wife-is-of-chinese-descent-my-money-is-not-foreign-labour-revolt-over-property-data-leak/AUJQG6WKFYZWBCI3P6YVEQRWO4/
    
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    December 22, 2020 2:35pm
Frank the tank

Get ready for the next episode of scare porn:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300190122/cut-off-gridlock-people-stranded-as-travel-bans-to-britain-over-new-coronavirus-strain-hit

Also why aren’t we banning arrivals from UK like the majority of the developed world?
18 3
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December 22, 2020 8:49am
Greg Ettridge

Grace Millane Killer loses name suppression at 11am.
Wasn’t this the worlds worst kept secret.
These judges either don’t have any understanding how a vpn works, or they just shut down the poor local sheep that they can control.
It angers me, how much has been written about Grace under her name, but the killer got a free kick for a very long time.
Wonder if the kiddie fiddler is next cab off the rank? Pigs may fly to the moon.
33 3
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December 22, 2020 9:05am
- Jack5
  
  Is the total amount of taxpayer money the murderer got for his appeals available officially? Did I hear or read the amount of $400,000 bandied abut?
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:23am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  For the downtickers
  Here is the timeline of Justice
  Grace disappeared and was killed on the 1 or 2nd December 2018
  The killer was arrested on the 8th December 2018.
  The murderer’s appeal was declined just four days ago.
  The foreign press have named this person for over two years.
  At long last, Grace’s parents can go into a Christmas knowing this guy is going to serve time, not enough but, he will serve time, and that it will be finally made public in NZ to whom committed this heinous crime.
  I really feel for the parents she left behind to mourn her violent departure from this earth.
  Losing a child has to be one of life’s worst experiences.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:01am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Grace’s mother. Her father died a few weeks ago.
    
    13 1
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    December 22, 2020 10:22am
  - kowtow
    
    Very sadly Grace’s Dad died of cancer not so very long ago.
    
    One wonders how the stress of the appalling indignity visited upon his daughter might have contributed .
    
    A hard working self made man destroyed.
    
    The courts and state need to recognise there are many victims and perhaps be a lot less “crim” focussed .
    
    Just look at the wet bus ticket given to Sydney Jayden Kokiri.
    
    17 1
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    December 22, 2020 10:40am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It does not have to serve an extra day for the two offences he was just convicted of.
  
  5 3
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  December 22, 2020 11:57am
Maggie Pie

Just thought I’d let the group know I may not be commenting here much more today. I’ve had to set a bit of time aside to get some self-loathing done.

Later.
23 6
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December 22, 2020 9:20am
- backster
  
  I forgive you Maggie, and then you will be qualified to teach the kids NZ History.
  
  20 3
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  December 22, 2020 10:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Try some manifesting, Maggie Pie
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/teach-me/300189384/manifesting-2020s-hottest-wellness-trend
  seems to be the new rage up your way.
  
  7 1
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  December 22, 2020 12:10pm
- RJ
  
  Will you whip yourself as well for punishment, oh wait you might enjoy that
  
  5 1
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  December 22, 2020 1:32pm
mark15

I wonder what the first ever argument on the internet was about.
7 1
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December 22, 2020 9:25am
- mandk
  
  It was about which way the toilet roll should hang.
  
  9 1
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  December 22, 2020 10:17am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    No there’s never been a (valid) argument about that. Go to any hotel in the world and you’ll have the correct answer – over is the only way.
    
    3 0
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    December 22, 2020 4:09pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Who got the keyboard first?
  
  5 1
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  December 22, 2020 10:18am
- rangitoto
  
  Whether or not god should be real or integer.
  
  1 2
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  December 22, 2020 10:24am
  - rangitoto
    
    Aw. Someone didn’t like my Fortran joke.
    
    2 1
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    December 22, 2020 11:19am
    - cmm
      
      For the yoofs of today who don’t understand Fortran:
      
      Fortran variables are, by default, integer numbers if they start with one of the letters I to N. The others are “real” aka floating point numbers.
      
      Thank goodness Fortran use is waining – as well as it’s side-kick – punch cards.
      
      3 1
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      December 22, 2020 12:33pm
      - Paulus
        
        I was using this high level mathematical programme Fortran early in the 1970s.
        Cannot really remember any now as life became easier with new programmes.
        
        1 0
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        December 22, 2020 1:50pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        A brief shower came over our suburb several minutes ago. My neighbour who always states the obvious, and has a speech impediment said;
        “It’s waining.”
        
        1 0
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        December 22, 2020 3:38pm
  - cmm
    
    Very complex.
    
    2 2
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    December 22, 2020 12:26pm
- muppeth8r
  
  Porn or politics
  
  1 2
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  December 22, 2020 12:06pm
  - RJ
    
    Both the same
    
    0 1
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    December 22, 2020 1:30pm
Happychappy

The Prime Minister and Grant Robertson keep talking up the economy but what will happen when Xmas and New year are gone. The number of people that took a holiday from paying there morgage are finding it difficult to pay with many defaulters increasing .
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/433325/mortgage-arrears-grow-as-demand-for-credit-hits-pre-covid-highs
So it looks like there is a increase in people not able to afford to pay there morgage and the demand for credit hits pre civic highs , surely this is not a good sign for either the Government or those that can’t afford to pay there morgage.
20 1
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December 22, 2020 9:26am
- kloyd0306
  
  Your sentiment is good.
  Such a shame about your using “there” when you should be using “their”.
  Your link also spells “mortgage” correctly.
  It may not be your fault. You could blame our failing education system.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:30am
  - Happychappy
    
    As I have said before I’m not the best at english but that never stopped me from getting good management jobs but if my spelling upsets you ,sorry I will try harder next time but please don’t lose any sleep over it after all I don’t think DPF employs the spelling Police.
    
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    December 22, 2020 11:59am
    - Mike
      
      I don’t think spelling and grammar count for much in Kiwiblog conments. I pride myself on writing good, clear English, but I don’t worry about it here.
      
      6 2
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      December 22, 2020 12:32pm
  - Mike
    
    And, of course, Kloyd makes grammatical errors in his criticism – Muphry’s Law…
    
    6 1
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    December 22, 2020 12:35pm
- Ipanema69
  
  Yes happy you are on the money. Its very easy in the short term to paper over the crack with a 100billion credit line, but eventually they show.
  
  8 1
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  December 22, 2020 11:38am
- Paulus
  
  Don’t worry, Grant will see that your mortgage will be donated to you if you remember and pledge to vote Jacinda next election.
  
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  December 22, 2020 1:52pm
- artemisia
  
  Mortgagors even if not in arrears can apply for Accommodation Supplement. Renters can too.
  
  My prediction is there will be AS increases or some other top up because families weeping among their furniture on the front lawn does not look kind.
  
  Renters at risk of eviction can apply under the taxpayer funded Sustaining Tenancies scheme to keep them housed. Next – Sustaining Mortgages?
  
  Thanks taxpayers.
  
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  December 22, 2020 2:27pm
Clyde

Very selective lack of reporting on the unprovoked attack at a Rotorua hot pool. Could it be that under the new “enlightened” reporting system that MSM is now following that any crimes committed by anyone that identifies as East Polynesian is now not reported? Surely not?
35 3
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December 22, 2020 9:41am
- Jack5
  
  Imagine if the people sought all had full face tattoos like Rawiri Waititi, the MP in the cowboy hat.
  
  Would the police dare mention the face work?
  
  27 2
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  December 22, 2020 10:00am
  - Nostradamus
    
    Jack5:
    
    Rawiri Waititi may (or may not) have been inspired by Dayne Brajkovich‘s facial tattoos (he’s a Hells Angel gang member).
    
    11 2
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    December 22, 2020 11:23am
    - Jack5
      
      Holy shit!
      
      From that link, Nostradamus, Croatian facial decorations look to be more intricate than Maori ones.
      
      7 0
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      December 22, 2020 12:20pm
      - sooty
        
        Yes but the maori ones were done by hand!
        
        1 0
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        December 22, 2020 4:28pm
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Just a wee reminder only thirty sleeps until Trump , Ivanka and family are evicted from the Whitehouse.

Meanwhile Trump continues his fultile attempts at overturning reality.
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December 22, 2020 9:56am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Is the most intelligent son in the world moving in?
  I guess he will be a roving ambassador for Joe, China will be most probably his first port of call.
  Mr “intelligence” will most probably keep his new laptop close to his side, leaving the old one to be combed through was almost the dumbest thing I have ever encountered.
  I read the porn on it was off the richer scale.
  Thats my boy!
  
  24 4
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  December 22, 2020 10:24am
- Inandout
  
  S2, Biden is becoming more frail by the day and he won’t be moving into the WH.
  
  17 7
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  December 22, 2020 10:30am
  - kowtow
    
    Footage of him leaving a building last night on the “news” , walking like the doddery old man that he is .
    
    No more of that pseudo jog onto the stage in order to hood wink the Thicko Average Jane Dem voter.
    
    21 5
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    December 22, 2020 10:44am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      he did break his foot a couple of weeks back.
      
      2 0
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      December 22, 2020 2:36pm
- Fletch
  
  In probably the most fraudulent modern election in the U.S. How anyone can claim that this was all above-board is beyond me. As I have said many times, if Biden had won legally and fairly, I wouldn’t have had a problem with it, being the will of the people and all. I’m not being a so-called “Trumpest” just for the sake of it. Every indicator points to Trump having won the election. The cheating of the Dems knows no bounds. They have been a crooked party the whole of the life of the party.
  
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  December 22, 2020 10:35am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Yawn. Are you spreading all this good info around other blogs or are we KBers especially privileged to have the inside story …. ?
    
    7 21
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    December 22, 2020 11:14am
  - Ian Boag
    
    The cheating of the Dems knows no bounds. They have been a crooked party the whole of the life of the party.
    
    Yep. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton ….. all crooks.
    
    3 3
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    December 22, 2020 1:04pm
  - RJ
    
    Keep an eye out for a presidential address, been told to expect trump to make one soon
    
    2 2
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    December 22, 2020 1:29pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Oh, yeah. Told by whom?
      
      Sources? Links? Thought not.
      
      1 3
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      December 22, 2020 6:26pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    As I have said many times, if Biden had won legally and fairly, I wouldn’t have had a problem with it, being the will of the people and all.
    
    The problem with that, Fletch, is that even though AG Barr has said the Justice Department and the FBI “had not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election”, you, and people like you, were never going to accept the fact that Biden won “legally and fairly”, no matter what. There is simply no evidence that could have been produced that was ever going to convince you of that.
    
    So, basically, you remain full of it.
    
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    December 22, 2020 6:17pm
    - SGA
      
      In fact, Fletch, if Trump himself came out tomorrow and said, “I was wrong, reviewing the situation this election was not significantly more fraudualent than previous elections – well done, Joe, I concede”, then what would you say?
      1. “I was wrong.”
      2. “I am still right – Trump’s being pressured/blackmailed into say this stuff, or he’s telling lies in the best interests of the USA”.
      
      Nothing, absolutely nothing, will ever convince you otherwise. That’s what makes you a good conspiracy theorist.
      
      In contrast, if significant numbers of people start getting convicted under 52 U.S. Code § 20511.Criminal penalties (e.g., start with the “suitcases of ballots” crowd in Georgia), then I will reconsider my position.
      
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      December 22, 2020 8:18pm
oldfella

‘Unprecedented cover-up’: Mounting evidence in Hunter Biden scandal suppressed…
++
Democrats, along with allies in Silicon Valley and the news media, have suppressed the Hunter Biden scandal despite mounting evidence that President-elect Joseph R. Biden‘s son had secret, lucrative financial ties to oligarchs and a powerful communist-connected Chinese businessman.
Since September, it has been a remarkable combination of blacklisting, promoting the theory of a Russian plot against the Bidens or simply ignoring the story. Liberal news websites acknowledged the scandal only after Mr. Biden won the election and Hunter Biden publicly stated that he is under criminal investigation for suspected tax fraud.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/20/hunter-biden-evidence-suppressed-media-silicon-val/
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December 22, 2020 10:03am
curry4me

https://nypost.com/2020/12/21/german-virologist-downplays-fears-about-new-mutation-of-covid-19/

German virologist downplays fears about new mutation of COVID-19.

A leading German virologist on Monday downplayed fears about the new mutation of the coronavirus spreading through the UK — and questioned Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s claim that the strain is 70 percent more infectious, according to reports.
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December 22, 2020 10:15am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  The claim is based on – wait for it – a computer model. We really do need tar and feathers for these modelers along with the politicians who make policy on the basis of their fatuous self-serving guesses.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:11am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNHtMuLkBtE

China Australia tensions are at an all time high, after Australia called for an independent investigation into the origin of the coronavirus. Chinese foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian famously tweeted a fake image of an Australia soldier doing something not nice, tying in to an investigation about Australia Afghanistan activities. China as launched a major trade war on Australia, putting tariffs on Australian wine, lobsters, and even the China iron ore they so desperately need. Joining us today to talk about it is Australian Senator Eric Abetz, who has spoken up about the Chinese Communist Party’s influence in Australia.
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December 22, 2020 10:16am
Nostradamus

ANU penalises entire class of 300 students for alleged plagiarism after being unable to find perpetrators

An entire computer science class at the Australian National University (ANU) in Canberra has been told every student will be penalised 30 per cent of their marks because some of them cheated on an assignment.

ANU computer science convenor Hanna Kurniawati wrote to students of her third-year algorithms class yesterday to say that because she could not identify the perpetrators of “massive academic misconduct reports”, the entire class of about 300 students would be punished.

I wonder if this is the first time that a university lecturer (it appears to be her decision) has sought to apply academic misconduct rules to an entire class, and not to specific individuals.

I doubt that the university regulations give her this discretion, so if I were one of the innocent fee-paying students faced with blemished academic records, I’d challenge the decision. The “solution” adopted by the university is to rescale the other course assessments, but that doesn’t necessarily assist someone who might not have done well in one of those assessments.

One effect of the COVID-19 pandemic has been a significant decrease in foreign student income.
Perhaps universities need to be reminded not to take domestic fee-paying students for granted.
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December 22, 2020 11:09am
- kowtow
  
  Collective punishment, a recourse of the totalitarian.
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:28am
- Ian Boag
  
  I was a uni lecturer for 20 years. Teaching computer-based math stuff where I knew assignments (that counted) were being done “cooperatively”. It got sufficiently obvious that I named and shamed a couple of the obvious ones (the class was about 100) and told them that this year the % contribution from assignments would be zero. I would still hand assignments out and I would still work though the answers in tutes but – I figured if you could do the assignment you would be able to handle the final (I got to set that too).
  
  There was a bit of puff and blow from management but that year the grades were 100% based on stuff done under exam conditions. FWIW I always set open-book exams ….
  
  Was that fair ….. ?
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:55am
  - muppeth8r
    
    That explains alot…
    
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    December 22, 2020 12:04pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Ian Boag:
    
    Thanks for commenting. It sounds like your teaching experience is directly relevant to this discussion.
    
    Was that fair ….. ?
    
    Reasonable minds may differ about whether it’s “fair” to have a 100% exam weighting for a computer science course. But I think that’s a different issue. You say that you “named and shamed” some obvious collaborators in class. Did you investigate, give them an opportunity to respond to your findings, and then mark them down?
    
    On a different point, I think it’s likely that university conventions have changed over the years. I remember a finance lecturer telling my class on the first day: “Look at the person to your left. Now look at the person to your right. Only one of the three of you will pass this course”. Now any lecturer who says something like that will be a social media target and, perhaps, his or her academic career will be shortened.
    
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    December 22, 2020 12:04pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      You say that you “named and shamed” some obvious collaborators in class.
      
      Class of 100-odd. Assignment was handed in on a floppy disk. Student name was supposed to be in top RH corner of the spreadsheet. “John Smith” copied “Fred Bloggs” diskette without changing the name … how dumb was that …. I stood both of them up in the lecture, said what they had done and told the class that there would be no final mark contribution from assignments because quite frankly there was obviously cheating going on.
      
      Like I said there was a bit of puff and blow from the class and from management, but I was a fairly senior staff member and reasonably well respected.
      
      As far as the ANU thing is concerned, the cheats irrevocably tainted the process. I would have omitted the 40% project contribution too.
      
      If it is at all widespread there is no show of nailing all the offenders. The only other course would be that if an offender is nailed, said offender is tossed out of the course and possibly whatever program they are enrolled in. But this is pretty hard too – unis are not set up to deal – in a “justice” sense – with widespread cheating.
      
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      December 22, 2020 1:20pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Exactly Ian. If relevant book(s) are readily available in the workplace, it is unrealistic to hide them for examination purposes. If you are assessing knowledge recall (something which must be executed as an immediate response to stimuli), then an open book environment is not relevant.
    
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    December 22, 2020 12:14pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      In an open book exam one tests the ability to think rather than just recall stuff. The open book (including course notes) is useful if you basically know what the material is about and just need to confirm a detail or two. It’s no use if you have no idea about the question and want to look the relevant bit of book in the exam for the first time.
      
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      December 22, 2020 1:08pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      I test recall of knowledge all the time when conducting engineering job interviews. People who know their shit straight off the bat are faster at sifting through information and solving problems.
      
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      December 22, 2020 2:40pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Exactly, that’s why recalling things like Times Tables, Scientific Principals and Road Rules must be an Immediate response to stimulli (without reference to outside sources). Off the bat as you as you call it.
        
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        December 22, 2020 9:31pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        So if I don’t – off the top of my head – know Young’s Modulus for 20 different steels I don’t cut it?
        
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        December 22, 2020 10:13pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Open book exams? Oh, for math. Yeah that would work out real well for testing emergency medicine. Not.
    
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    December 22, 2020 7:18pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Things like First Aid etc should be tested/assessed as ‘immediate response to stimuli’ eg without recourse to outside assistance. Such assistance can be subsequently sought if required. As an example, the immediate response in the case of wounding would be to stop the bleeding, stop the pain and treat for shock.
      
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      December 22, 2020 9:52pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Yep, I Chair the final appeals committee for my University (appeals of president’s academic discipline). There’s no way that a blanket decision of that nature, with no proof and no natural justice would stand at our institution. It wouldn’t even get to my committee – the one below us would chuck it back to the Faculty/Department.
  
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  December 22, 2020 1:15pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    @Chick
    
    It would never get to your committee ….. so if it got swept under the carpet at a lower level you would not have to know about it. Nice …..
    
    The practicalities are a bit daunting. Any serious investigation would take time. For as long as there is serious doubt, there would be some issues about what any student in the class could do next.
    
    It could easily be that this 300-level course was part of a final year program. So having a cloud over it could affect one’s graduation or chances of entry to a post-grad program. Not to mention honours and stuff or enrolling in another paper for which this one was a prerequisite.
    
    So there are two options. Accept the “raw” results or bin them. Accepting the “raw” results sends the message to the cheats that this approach works ……
    
    I think I could confidently say that she would not have liked the solution that she chose I can also confidently say the faculty board would have run a mile from doing anything about it if she had accepted the results as submitted. “None so blind ….” and all that.
    
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    December 22, 2018 1:38pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Nope, that’s not what I said. Our institution requires disciplinary matters to be investigated, and there to be a finding that on the balance of probabilities misconduct occurred (its analogous to a civil standard, not a judicial standard of “beyond reasonable doubt”) against students for whom discipline is initiated. The chairs of our committees are required to undergo training in Administrative Law, before we serve (the university pays for it).
      
      The petulant response from the lecturer that the entire class take a 30% hit because she couldn’t nail the culprit or culprits, would not pass the natural justice test in our Insitution’s presidents advisory committee on student discipline (the one below mine).
      
      Personally, I thought your response – that no assignments counted because of rampant cheating – is the better decision, because students are still being assessed on other aspects of the course and they can still do the assignments for practice if they like (my sub-discipline involves a fair bit of mathematics, and practice is paramount).
      
      BTW open book exams are great – the poor students think :”cool open book”, they don’t study and subsequently run out of time looking every tiny thing up. Good students can, at times; become great students on open book exams as they can give richer level(s) of detail and thoughtfulness IMO. Plus I take the comment above – its like the real world where textbooks/google are always available.
      
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      December 22, 2020 2:15pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        The “30% hit” presumably meant that the project was no longer counted in the final mark. You can argue about whether that is a “penalty” …. generally (in my experience) people who produce good projects do OK in exams too.
        
        Also I would guess the “300 students” is wrong – this is a 3rd year (300 level) course. I would be surprised to hear of an algorithms paper with 300 enrolled. I could of course be wrong.
        
        And ponder this. The line of least resistance for the course coordinator would be to go all wide eyed, cloth eared, nod and smile a lot and just accept what was submitted. “Wot? Cheating? In my course? Never ….” I would not be surprised if colleagues would advise that too. So the lady – for mine – has some integrity.
        
        Some of the world don’t understand open book exams. Good to meet a kindred spirit 🙂
        
        I’ll go a bit further – as the examiner I didn’t produce much in the way of surprises. Anyone who could do my last three years of questions was always going to ace this year’s exam. I ran (sparsely attended and not by the ones who needed it) special tutes where I went through them even ….
        
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        December 22, 2019 8:05pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        PS you are absolutely correct about how much time the investigations take though. Most faculties have a [small] centralized team of a couple staff members and an associate dean. Our saying is that 90% of time is taken up by 10% of students…
        
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        December 22, 2020 2:21pm
Swifty

Words I have come to hate – my current number 1:

“Funding”.

“Oh, I really want to open my new hip-hop dance school but I can’t get any funding!”

“What is the world coming to? I had my heart set on spending the next two years compiling oral histories on the history of NZ spud farming, but the government REFUSES to fund it!!”

“I really want to sail a boat around NZ’s coastline for 12 months and blog about my thoughts on climate change and Carmen Rupe’s dress sense. Do you think I could get funding for that?”

“I’m about to start my far-left socialist YouTube channel which calls for the destruction of capitalism and the implementation of a socialist utopia but the thing which really pisses me off is the amount of time I spend filling out funding applications before this Labour government will give me my money!!!”

“At the NZ Human Rights Commission we have announced in our new annual plan that our latest batch of twenty-something arts grads staff have invented a whole new bunch of human rights but we are not currently funded for their implementation. We are currently working with our Minister to address this funding shortfall and expect to announce shortly that our funding application has been successful.”

You get the picture. It’s as if there’s this great big money pot that is just magicked into existence and no mention that this money actually comes out of the pocket of New Zealanders and NZ families. That they go without so that this money is available.

You never heard the word ‘funding’ twenty years ago – now it is ubiquitous and usually in the context of lefties demanding it for their latest pet cause or wishlist item.

I am growing to hate the word, and all it means.
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December 22, 2020 11:15am
- Nostradamus
  
  Swifty:
  
  That’s a good comment.
  
  I’ve also noticed a shift in political language over the years from “government spending” to “public investment”. It’s the same taxpayer money, collected and redistributed through the same processes, and usually seems to result in the same sub-optimal outcomes.
  
  I’m looking forward to reading about your number 2 word by the way 🙂
  
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  December 22, 2020 11:35am
  - muppeth8r
    
    Bubble
    Science
    Equity
    Equality
    Kindness
    Privilidge
    
    I could keep going but you get the jist of it, plenty of contenders for number 2-1000 spot…
    
    10 1
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    December 22, 2020 12:02pm
  - Swifty
    
    Cheers Nostradamus.
    
    I have noticed the ‘investment’ phenomenon creep in during 2017-20. That every dollar spent by this government is “an investment” with no differentiation at all between operational or capital spending and the like.
    
    I sort of understand it though if it it used in the context of “a dollar spent now saves us many dollars down the line…” but I’ve seen Labour MPs, especially Robbo, use it in contexts that strongly suggest to me that he’s just trying to sex up their firehose operational spending plans (Oh, isn’t this Labour just wonderful, they’re ‘investing’ here, there and everywhere) and quite frankly mislead people and to divert their thinking away from the fact that much spending is just pissing against a wall and the dough would have delivered more benefits to more people by just leaving it in their pockets to begin with.
    
    (I’ll have to think of my hated word Number 2 – I’m sure I’ll think of something…)
    
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    December 22, 2020 12:24pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      My favourite word for the coming years… Audit
      
      12 1
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      December 22, 2020 2:17pm
      - amospicton
        
        Learnings……..
        
        3 0
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        December 22, 2020 3:13pm
      - Swifty
        
        You might be on to something there Maggy.
        
        4 0
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        December 22, 2020 3:21pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Mine is still the same as always……. MOIST
        
        8 5
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        December 22, 2020 3:43pm
      - sooty
        
        Me too, I can’t stand a dry cake, moist for me!
        
        3 0
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        December 22, 2020 4:23pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Pert
        
        4 0
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        December 22, 2020 7:12pm
      - chukar
        
        Be careful what you wish for?
        It may happen
        
        1 0
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        December 22, 2020 8:00pm
    - Harriet
      
      “Stake holder” —- that’s so almost everyone gets a say – unemployed on taxes – renters on rates……..
      
      Except for Maori things where ‘stakeholders’ don’t exist – just their money does.
      
      But the media won’t call out this form of hypocrisy as hypocrisy only exists with Christian MP’s and sex acts; reporting has been this way in the west since the ’70’s.
      
      4 1
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      December 22, 2020 5:43pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        I used to hold the waratah standards before Dad banged them into the ground.
        “We’ll put a stake in here'” he would say.
        So I was a stake holder when in primary school.
        
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        December 22, 2020 9:03pm
  - SB2
    
    Number 2 ? Likley Covi19 is just the sniffles.
    
    Funding simply a means financing ( or lack of ) various intiatives the government of the day deems worthy of funding.
    
    Can’t see what the problem is?
    
    0 10
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    December 22, 2020 4:36pm
    - Swifty
      
      On what possible basis would you think I thought that about Covid?
      
      I’ve never posted on Covid all year.
      
      [Deleted by Mod. Excessive personal abuse.]
      
      0 0
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      December 23, 2020 8:04am
- cmm
  
  A few years ago I had the daughter from the local baby factory coming around with a clipboard saying she was fundraising.
  
  I’m always out to help the local charities etc so I’d given her $10 before I asked what she was fundraising for: getting herself a puppy.
  
  A few weeks later she was around again, this time fundraising to get her puppy vaccinated. Sorry no $10 that time.
  
  16 2
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  December 22, 2020 12:23pm
Engelbert Humperdink

Shouldn’t we be locking down all the meth houses…?

“A record 621 people died of drug overdoses in San Francisco so far this year, a staggering number that far outpaces the 173 deaths from COVID-19 the city has seen thus far.”
17 2
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December 22, 2020 11:45am
- Nickc2
  
  Good call. Let’s do this! I’m sure Chloe Swarbrick will support the call (sarc).
  Never forget, if we are permitted to have another election, she supported legalising drugs.
  
  8 2
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  December 22, 2020 11:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Un ended by slow brick. She will do anything, I mean anything to the right people
    
    4 2
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    December 22, 2020 7:11pm
- artemisia
  
  San Francisco – sanctuary city plus nice warm weather for those temporarily between homes. What could go wrong?
  
  2 0
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  December 22, 2020 2:05pm
- SB2
  
  The main thing to consider is that unlike the sniffles or common cold Covid 19 is highly infections.
  
  The 176 who gave died could well be much more if it wasn’t for city amd state preventaive measure that we are familiar with here .
  
  Covid 19 not only kills the elderly , very young or immune commpromised but can and does kill younger people ( about 30%)
  
  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
  
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  December 22, 2020 4:30pm
muppeth8r

Another one that has the right skin colour to get special treatment…
https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/123776714/south-canterbury-couple-sentenced-to-intensive-supervision-for-child-neglect

My bet is the scummer wont get a job, wont improve his families situation and next time in court will once again use the “disconnect from cultural heritage” excuse.

Take the kids away and sterilize the muppet parents, its the only way those children will have the slightest chance of getting somewhere in life.
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December 22, 2020 11:59am
PhilP

Epidemiologist Dr Michael Baker now advocates for people coming back to NZ be tested for Coronavirus (negative) before they are allowed to board a plane. Where have I heard that before………
Because National have been advocating this strategy for months, Liebore poo pooed the idea.
Now the only time you hear about it in the media is when the Liebore Pardy Poodle Baker says it.
FFS! don’t you just love the NZ media!
23 2
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December 22, 2020 12:06pm
cmm

Ladies, I fail to understand you.

From all the tales, that Jesse Kempson seemed to get plenty women in the sack.

I’m not drawn to men but I don’t think he looks like much. I would not have thought he’s bring a tingle to anyone’s loins.

Where’s the appeal? Why would he be such a puller?
10 4
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December 22, 2020 12:38pm
- artemisia
  
  He is young and not bad looking and let’s face it some apps are basically about casual sex. Plus according to the media he’s a great liar.
  
  6 0
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  December 22, 2020 2:09pm
  - mark15
    
    I wonder what his cultural impact statement said.
    
    2 0
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    December 22, 2020 9:40pm
- BeaB
  
  The male fallacy. That it’s all about looks.
  
  2 0
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  December 22, 2020 3:58pm
Engelbert Humperdink

For a science- and non-bias-based loom at the physics of mask protection:

https://phys.org/news/2020-12-mask-masks-affect-airflow-effectiveness.html

Note 1: “It is natural to think that wearing a mask, no matter new or old, should always be better than nothing. Our results show that this belief is only true for particles larger than 5 micrometers, but not for fine particles smaller than 2.5 micrometers.”

Note 2: The researchers found that wearing a mask with low (less than 30%) filtration efficiency can be worse than without.

But IMO it’s worth reading the whole thing.

BMM – Better Masks Matter.
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December 22, 2020 12:38pm
- SB2
  
  Our Hospital and health system is coping quite well with exsiting PEP ( inluding masks) which would be no differnt to what e.g Joe Biden and Mike Pence wear.
  
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  December 22, 2020 4:38pm
artemisia

Some people upset that delays with MBIE mean their exemption applications to come home to say goodbye to the gravely ill or dying come through too late. If they are approved at all.

Seems MBIE is slow but also asking for more information, including life expectancy. MBIE responded that there were 27 applications where all the required info had been received, but 108 where additional information had been requested.

There is something wrong with those numbers. Is MBIE being clear enough about what info has to be provided? Because they must know what that info is.

I get that there is a lot of ‘it depends’ but if MBIE is asking for life expectancy, for example, then applicants can provide that along with other medical information. If they know. Because 28 applications are Ok but 108 are not is indicating people don’t know.
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December 22, 2020 1:46pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Hi Artemisa. Regarding MBIE dont get me started.
  Put in request at FYI.org.nz as you suggested. Their response was “No information Held”.
  Like most Government departments their is a serious shortfall in being able to make descisions.
  In my case I will purchase a plane ticket back to NZ in mid March with aless than 5% chance of being on that flight just so as I can Book a MIQ voucher.
  Other Seafaring collegues have done the same.
  At least get in the system and try and wangle exact dates later.
  Written to D.Seymour and have better response from Him regarding booking MIQ vouchers and MBIE.
  Regardless I have a professional and moral duty keeping shipping lines operating.
  
  7 0
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  December 22, 2020 2:59pm
  - artemisia
    
    Thanks for the update. You can if you like refer the response from MBIE to the Ombudsman. Might not get a decent answer but MBIE will take notice esp if the Ombudsman smacks them and if questions are asked in the House.
    
    4 0
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    December 22, 2020 7:20pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Hi Artemisia, Thats exactly what i did. Sick of getting Mickey Mouse auto responses.
      i see they have broadened there Emg Voucher criteria but again there is no practical way of getting through hoops and hurdles.
      Hence request to Ombudman today.
      Actually had a ” flurry” of emails today from MBIE but not answering the questions I asked.Like I said to Ombudman, Do I take the Gambit and sign off without knowing whether i can fly and will likely be detained or stay onboard. i basically cant stay onboard indefinately.
      Likely crew change in March in Myanmar, Probably not the best place to spend in detention centre thats for sure.
      
      1 0
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      December 22, 2020 11:09pm
- Kevin Herlihy
  
  There was an extended interview on RNZ this morning with a distraught family member complaining of the delays in processing applications and also of the requirement to provide additional information in the application including life expectancy.
  Firstly MBIE has to verify applicants details to confirm that the information provided is correct before MBIE can grant a waiver. In this mornings interview the applicant claimed that the gravely ill family member was in stage 4 of a terminal illness and was not expected to survive the following 7 days. The terminally ill family member had been ill for some time and this is where the difficulty developes. In all fairness the close family members should have planned to visit well in advance of the latest diagnosis to avoid difficult situations such as the one they experienced.
  Govt. agencies have a responsibility to ensure the border is managed tightly, any incoming covid has the potential to undermine all the good work to date to keep New Zealand covid free.
  My personal view is that I was not sympathetic to the complainant being interviewed this morning on RNZ. She knew her family member was gravely ill and should have made arrangements earlier. her case was not a sudden death scenario.
  
  4 1
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  December 22, 2020 6:47pm
  - artemisia
    
    My issue with MBIE was that a huge majority of applicants have not provided enough, or the right, information. So either a whole lot of people have ignored the list of requirements or they have not understood it. If the latter MBIE needs to fix.
    
    4 0
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    December 22, 2020 7:23pm
  - mark15
    
    We are fast approaching the stage of ultimate inversion:the stage where government is free to do as it pleases but citizens may only act with permission.
    
    3 0
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    December 22, 2020 8:50pm
RJ

One of the concerns is safety of the person and related health issues, well shit, they had no concern for Grace. Our justice system is a joke.

Three teenage girls responsible for the death of a 90-year-old woman after a violent home invasion will keep their names secret.

The girls have pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of Grace Virtue and are due to be sentenced in early 2021. Virtue died 25 days after being assaulted in her Levin home on November 2, 2019.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300190057/identity-of-teens-involved-in-killing-90yearold-to-stay-secret
8 2
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December 22, 2020 2:17pm
- RJ
  
  Whoops, just saw your comment mod. Sorry too late to edit
  
  [Mod.: No problem – suggest you use ‘i’ or ‘quote’ instead of your ‘strong’ code.
  
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  December 22, 2020 2:23pm
  - RJ
    
    Will do, thanks.
    
    1 0
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    December 22, 2020 7:33pm
Cactus Kate

Loving Shane Phillips/Te Pou’s selective memory today in his Herald spit at Judith Collins.

PM bans minister’s choice of assistant
https://www.nzherald.co.nz

This is a guy Helen Clark thought so highly of she blocked him getting a job!
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December 22, 2020 2:18pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION……

Do we still have ‘Cummulative Sentences’ in this country ?

Asking for a friend at Remuera Racquets.
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December 22, 2020 3:48pm
- SB2
  
  Yes we do,
  
  S 84 Sentencing Act.
  
  https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0009/latest/DLM136447.html
  
  Remuera Racquets?
  
  Bragging rights secured?
  
  1 9
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  December 22, 2020 4:14pm
  - fernglas
    
    Not if one of the sentences is life.
    
    4 0
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    December 22, 2020 9:32pm
- kowtow
  
  Rarely , but we do have lots of “cultural estrangement”.
  
  6 1
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  December 22, 2020 4:28pm
Jack5

The Woke go after Space Classic …

The British film censorship board has added a warning to the classic space film, “Flash Gordon,” because Ming the Merciless is portrayed by a White man — the Swedish film star Max von Sydow.

The Telegraph reports the UK film censor said the casting of a White actor in the role of Ming could be considered “dubious if not outright offensive”.

The censor warns it will look at re-classifying other older films, specifically “films that might contain discriminatory depictions or stereotypes that are not acceptable to modern audience.”

Ming hailed from the Planet Mongo but, the censor said, was clearly of East Asian origin.

The Telegraph reports:

Matt Tindall, senior policy officer, said: “Flash’s arch-nemesis, Ming the Merciless, is coded as an East Asian character due to his hair and make-up but he’s played by the Swedish actor, Max von Sydow, which I don’t think is something that would happen if this were a modern production and is something we’re also aware that viewers may find dubious, if not outright offensive.

“The character of Ming himself comes from the Flash Gordon comic strips of the 1930s and let’s just say that attitudes towards the acceptability of discriminatory racial stereotypes have moved on considerably since then, and rightly so, of course.”
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December 22, 2020 4:14pm
- Jack5
  
  The censure of a White actor portraying Ming the Merciless contrasts with Woke views on:
  
  – Black and Asian actors getting only minor roles rather than playing the major (usually White) roles in Shakespeare;
  
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shakespearean-black-and-ethnic-minority-actors-still-only-getting-minor-roles-a6816941.html
  
  – Black ballet dancers not getting the many White roles in ballet – which is said to concentrate on white swans, white shades (ghosts), white wilis (drowned women’/s souls), and white sylphs (mythological air spirits).
  
  https://www.pointemagazine.com/behind-ballets-diversity-problem-2412811909.html
  
  Futher on the Flash Gordon censor qualification: it was traditional over decades for film roles of Asian characters to be played by Scandinavians like von Sydow.
  
  However, even Anthony Quinn, Katharine Hepburn, and Marlon Brando were made up in “yellow face” to play Asian roles.
  
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  December 22, 2020 5:04pm
- Fletch
  
  In the original Alex Raymond comics, Ming and the citizens of Mongo were made to look yellow. Perhaps it was cashing in on Fu Manchu and “orientalism” around that time.
  
  https://bit.ly/37FCrXf
  
  To be honest, I thought the bigger controversy would be that an Asian would be typecast as being the villain etc. Instead they don’t like a white man playing the part? It’s weird.
  
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  December 22, 2020 8:29pm
  - Fletch
    
    On the other side – Ming is an alien, from an alien planet. How can he be of “East Asian origin” when he is not from Earth? Or perhaps they mean the inspiration for the character.
    
    2 1
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    December 22, 2020 8:40pm
Maggie Pie

Prominent broadcaster ‘Marcus Lush’ is vying for a vacant seat on the Invercargill City Council.

Saying ….”he believes he could bring a fresh perspective to the job”, Lush described his politics as “left leaning”

Well butter my butt and take me for a holiday in Paris….who would have guessed? LOL!!!
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December 22, 2020 4:38pm
- RJ
  
  Can we just use margarine?
  
  7 1
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  December 22, 2020 7:32pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I have wasted too much of my time listening to Marcus Lush on the radio. I cannot believe he can bring any good whatsoever to any local authority that he is elected to. That being so, with his huge media image he will shit in at any election. That is a huge problem we have in our country; the voters go for dong beater media personalities who have a wisdom as deep as the average supermarket car park puddle.
  
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  December 22, 2020 9:14pm
- igm
  
  No different to the rest of left-wing flotsam that has infiltrated local politics under Labour guise.
  These leeches are elected by non-ratepayers, not those that do the paying. Time for it to stop.
  
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  December 23, 2020 7:47am
Fletch

The $2.3 trillion U.S spending bill is filled with billions of dollars of pork for other countries and for dubious “gender programs” and such.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/21/billions-going-to-foreign-aid-in-spending-bill-gender-programs-in-pakistan-sri-lankan-ship-refurbishments/

What can you expect though. Especially from Democrats. Throwing money around like it’s toy money.
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December 22, 2020 8:33pm
igm

NZ the way Ardern/Communists operate:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/123793696/gisborne-tourist-attacker-wins-appeal-against-prison-sentence
We are now in the same league as Rhodesia!
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December 23, 2020 12:26am

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