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December 28, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 December 2020

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Steve Todd

Yesterday, I stumbled across the following item (at the blogsite, ‘Balkinization’).

In Richard Nixon’s first book, Six Crises (1962), which he wrote in response to John F. Kennedy’s 1956 book, Profiles in Courage, he discusses the 1960 presidential campaign and the allegations of voter fraud by Democrats.

He then explains why he decided not to demand a recount (on page 413). This is what he says—

“If I were to demand a recount, the organization of the new Administration and the orderly transfer of responsibility from the old to the new might be delayed for months. The situation within the entire Federal Government would be chaotic. Those in the old Administration would not know how to act–or with what clear powers and responsibilities–and those being appointed by [John F.] Kennedy to positions in the new Administration would have the same difficulty making any plans.

“Then too, the bitterness that would be engendered by such a maneuver on my part would, in my opinion, have done incalculable and lasting damage throughout the country. And finally, I could think of no worse example for nations abroad, who for the first time were trying to put free electoral procedures into effect, than that of the United States wrangling over the results of our presidential election, and even suggesting that the presidency itself could be stolen by thievery at the ballot box. It is difficult enough to get defeated candidates in some of the newly independent countries to abide by the verdict of the electorate. If we could not continue to set a good example in this respect in the United States, I could see that there would be open-season for shooting at the validity of free elections throughout the world.

“Consequently, I made the decision not to support the contest and recount charges. I know that this greatly disappointed many of my best friends and most ardent supporters–but I could see for myself no other responsible course of action.”

Now isn’t that interesting?

(See Gerard N. Magliocca’s item, Richard Nixon on the 1960 Election, Tuesday, November 10, 2020, at https://balkin.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2020-12-06T09:30:00-05:00, then scroll down to the bottom of the page.)
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December 28, 2020 8:02am
- Wimpston peeders
  
  The short version, he became a cuck
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:09am
- Andrei
  
  So you are saying the American Presidency should be decided by who is best at cheating and the will of the people means nothing!
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:17am
  - Steve Todd
    
    See my response to Kev, at 8:57AM, below.
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:52am
  - Bob
    
    Well that is how it was in NZ in the lead up to the last election. Monopolising the public microphone on a daily basis, closing down opposition opportunities once ones own programme has been completed, so the list goes on.
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:53am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Yeah Bob, go and tell that to the Farmers, Small Businessess and Sheeple of Taranaki who voted Cindy with all the enthusiasm.
      
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      December 28, 2020 10:44am
      - Bob
        
        SCS very few FARMERS voted for Labour, but the Rural SHEEPLE certainly did, terrified of a repeat of the ‘Rogernomics effect” if the Greens were reinstated as a coalition with the F & C wrapper PM. These sheeple remember the economic devastation to the Rural sector of the Lange Labour govt. NZ has never really recovered from this period; keep electing labour just as the economy is recovering and down the tubes we go again.
        
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        December 28, 2020 11:47am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Well, I’ve been led to believe that Jacinda & the Labour Party really do truly believe that the people of aotearoa love them…
        
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        December 28, 2020 12:24pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      To be fair why not add to your list the mess the Nats created at the time for themselves, on that performance alone the election was lost and was possibly so as early as March when the Nats on the Covid Committee started cross-examinations (or inquisitions) of witnesses it called. Later not being able to display having a handle on economic forecasts meant they were in fact putting the icing on the Government’s cake. A comedienne that needed to tell her audience that she was joking when she lifted an eyebrow lit the candles for defeat. Talofa bro.
      
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      December 28, 2020 11:20am
      - Gazza the Giant
        
        This country has never been in a bigger mess over the last 2 years
        
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        December 28, 2020 11:22pm
- MCos
  
  As I recall some of the Democrat organizations back in those days really were dodgy. JFK’s father Joe was very ambitious, shall we say.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:29am
  - kowtow
    
    The Media colluded with the political Establishment to never let on about how frail and disabled FDR was especially going into the 1944 election.
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:49am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Ah, yes, Tammany Hall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammany_Hall.
    
    Extract—
    
    “Tammany depended for its power on government contracts, jobs, patronage, corruption, and ultimately the ability of its leaders to control nominations to the Democratic ticket and swing the popular vote. The last element weakened after 1940 with the decline of relief programs like WPA and CCC that Tammany used to gain and hold supporters. […].” Congressman Christopher ‘Christy’ Sullivan was one of the last ‘bosses’ of Tammany Hall before its collapse.”
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:01am
- simpleton1
  
  How to elect your democratic representative in “German Democratic Republic” with fair & free elections.
  
  lctns in the DDR 2004 doc
  https://3speak.co/watch?v=rair2/sscnprvy
  3 mins 30 secs. Subtitled to English
  
  The evidence of a great democracy that is to be revered, and repeated whenever possible and be applauded.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:34am
- tom hunter
  
  History eh…, courtesy of a newspaper column from the late and revered journalist Ralph de Toledano from December 6, 1960:
  
  What began as a “forlorn hope” to pick up a few more electoral votes for Vice President Nixon is now a full-scale Republican operation. The decision to make it so, it can be reliably reported, was made by President Eisenhower, who is in a table-thumping mood about what he believes to be the theft of the election from Vice President Nixon.
  
  As a result, word has gone out from the White House to Attorney General William P. Rogers to get off his above-the-battle pedestal and to do everything federal law allows in order to get an undisputed count in Illinois, Missouri, Texas, Nevada, and New Jersey. He has also told Republican National Committee Chairman Thurston B. Morton to put the weight of his resources behind state GOP groups battling for a recount. . .
  
  Four precincts in Chicago, for example, with some 1,200 qualified voters, cast over 2,000 votes on November 8. Yet the tallies from these precincts are included as legitimate in the official city canvas. Chicago newspaper estimate as many as 100,000 votes were stolen in Cook County.
  
  In Texas, one interesting statistic indicates what a careful investigation of the election might produce. Vice President Nixon ran 40,000 votes ahead of Mr. Kennedy in districts using voting machines. In districts that continue to use paper ballots only—easily destroyed or declared invalid—Mr. Kennedy ran 85,000 votes ahead of Mr. Nixon.
  
  Eisenhower a conspiracy theorist eh?
  
  In actual fact it was not conspiratorial thinking at all, for Republicans knew damned well how things worked with The Chicago Machine. And still do as it happens.
  
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  December 28, 2020 11:13am
  - Steve Todd
    
    We’ll never know, Tom.
    
    See Controversies, at
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election.
    
    Regarding Chicago / Cook County, this extract is worth noting—
    
    “Schlesinger and others have pointed out that, even if Nixon had carried Illinois, the state would not have given him victory, as Kennedy would still have won 276 electoral votes to Nixon’s 246. More to the point, Illinois was the site of the most extensive challenge process, which fell short despite repeated efforts spearheaded by Cook County state’s attorney, Benjamin Adamowski, a Republican, who also lost his reelection bid. Despite demonstrating net errors favoring both Nixon and Adamowski (some precincts—40% in Nixon’s case—showed errors favoring them, a factor suggesting error, rather than fraud), the totals found fell short of reversing the results for the candidates. While a Daley-connected circuit judge, Thomas Kluczynski (later appointed a federal judge by Kennedy, at Daley’s recommendation), threw out a federal lawsuit ‘filed to contend’ the voting totals, the Republican-dominated State Board of Elections unanimously rejected the challenge to the results. Furthermore, there were signs of possible irregularities in downstate areas controlled by Republicans, which Democrats never seriously pressed, since the Republican challenges went nowhere. More than a month after the election, the Republican National Committee abandoned its Illinois voter fraud claims.
    
    “An academic study in 1985 later analyzed the ballots of two disputed precincts in Chicago which were subject to a recount. It found that while there was a pattern of miscounting votes to the advantage of Democratic candidates, Richard Nixon suffered less from this than Republicans in other races, and furthermore the extrapolated error would only have reduced his Illinois margin from 8,858 votes (the final official total) to just under 8,000. It concluded there was insufficient evidence that he had been cheated out of winning Illinois.”
    
    The point is, Nixon was able to recognise when it was “over”. Trump can’t, or won’t.
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:52am
    - Mike
      
      It’s a bit of a shame, Steve, but tom hunter never replies to comments. I think perhaps he hopes that his bon mots will attract people to read his posts on another blog. Sad!
      
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      December 28, 2020 12:58pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Yes, I’ve noticed, Mike, he has linked to his own posts at ‘No Minister’ a few times, which is very poor form. In fact, I think I recall one of the Moderators giving him a serve for it, a while ago.
        
        On this occasion, I think it was a genuine response to my post, but I still feel that he, along with KevO’Brien and Andrei, deliberately overlooked my concluding comment, “Now isn’t that interesting?” and that I was clearly contrasting Nixon’s attitude with Trump’s, to make their own points.
        
        No matter.
        
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        December 28, 2020 3:16pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  He couldn’t have written a truer word or known that he was correctly predicting the aftermath of a future American election.
  So what happens now to the Republicans? Do they stifle the rot and forgo the rabble vote by drawing a line in the sand and give confidence back to their own voters and middle America or persevere?
  National have similar questions to answer, it has leaders representative of another time, not the future.
  
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  December 28, 2020 11:30am
- Aunty
  
  And while you’re all banging on about the totally irrelevant US election for New Zealanders at least – talk about bread and circuses for the masses – a new malignant force is rising in China that directly threatens the peace and security of this nation and the whole the world, and not a peep out of any of you.
  
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  December 28, 2020 12:05pm
  - Mike
    
    You think the US election is ‘totally irrelevant’ to us, but Chinese policy is not?
    
    7 6
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    December 28, 2020 1:00pm
  - IC5000
    
    What do you expect from party which sends its leader to Beijing to prance around in native dress in an act of supplication, whose retired MPs fill ‘executive’ positions in CCP controlled banks and corporations, which allows Chinese ex-security officials to become MPs?
    
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    December 28, 2020 2:21pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Heres the thing that gets me,
  
  Surely all political appointees ( NZ included) should pass a ” Fit and proper Person” requirement.
  
  How to do this would be super simple.
  A physcometric test and made Public, ( There are Public appointed), Then let voters decide.
  
  I have to do one, Why not Political appointees ?
  Great thing about these is not finding out your strengths but too be aware of your weaknesses and then given tools to combat this or be made aware of them.
  Why not all politicians then move to city councils etc.
  Too my mind its very simple and will stop certain personality types from entering in the first place and create a system from bottom up approach to ensure the right candidate gets in and moves up the chain.
  
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  December 28, 2020 12:32pm
  - IC5000
    
    > Surely all political appointees ( NZ included) should pass a ” Fit and proper Person” requirement.
    
    Would have stopped Trump from the getgo so this idea does have its merits.
    
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    December 28, 2020 3:29pm
  - Alan1930
    
    If KB had the same requirement it would be awfully quiet around here.
    
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    December 28, 2020 6:54pm
Steve Todd

Also at Balkinization, I came across a very interesting article that explains how Trump’s “campaign of misinformation about electoral fraud is squarely an attack on the integrity of Black voters and of jurisdictions with Black leadership, […].”

It states that the Trump campaign’s “rhetoric of misinformation [is a discourse] situated in victimhood.” For example, “Trump claims he is a victim of electoral fraud [and the] subtexts of the lawsuits targeting majority-minority counties is that white voters are victims of Black corruption.”

A most informative read.

You can access the article, Disinformation and the disingenuous discourse of victimhood, by Ari Ezra Waldman, Thursday, December 24, 2020, at https://balkin.blogspot.com/2020/12/disinformation-and-disingenuous.html.
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December 28, 2020 8:03am
tedbear

Has the serial downticker gone on holiday?
My one post yesterday attracted 44 upticks and zero downticks.
I’m shattered.
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December 28, 2020 8:03am
- softail 1450
  
  Tedbear ,they may have finally collared SB2.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:21am
- tedbear
  
  So far today the score is 7-8.
  Thanks everyone.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:50am
- Bob
  
  Possibly people are beginning to see, that the light at the end of the tunnel is beginning to glow brighter for honesty, and democracy, within the public mind.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:54am
  - oldfella
    
    Or, Bob, the light at the end of the tunnel is actually a train racing towards you.
    
    16 3
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    December 28, 2020 10:59am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    or proof that Chernobyl had a bigger impact than we thought.
    and Bull shit is actually glowing in the dark.
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:51am
  - giltee
    
    Bob I recall Robert Muldoon claiming the light was at the end of the tunnel. It was but indeed the fire from the train wreck of the economy. Perhaps the same light we’ll see in the next 3 years
    
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    December 28, 2020 8:32pm
    - Gazza the Giant
      
      The train wreck was rogernomics and Labour
      
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      December 28, 2020 11:25pm
NewInoffensiveName

Some years in the USA, spent in Democrat political machine cities, will edify you far better than anything I can say. It is possible to frame almost anything in the context of racism, colonialism, intersectional whatever. It does not mean that this interpretation is correct. Democrat corruption lives in the large cities.

Trump gained more black votes than any Republican candidate in history. His Platinum plan was the largest direct investment in struggling black communities in history. The overwhelming majority of allegations of large-scale electoral fraud took place in Democrat-machine dominated cities or by the centralised party apparatus in state capitols that chose Dominion/etc., machines to manipulate the vote.

All of this is utterly political, i.e., the economics of power, rather than an expression of one man’s attempt to use racism to contest an election.

And it is interesting indeed to see that exactly none of the assertions of fact surrounding assertions of fraud have been disproven or even meaningfully responded to. Court losses have been based on ‘standing’ rather than the merits of the cases.

The coming days will be amazing.
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December 28, 2020 8:14am
- artemisia
  
  Whoever ends up in the White House next month, there does need to be a serious look at voting ‘irregularities’ and processes. If only because millions of voters of all stripes think there are issues.
  
  To sweep possible issues under the carpet is not going to cut it.
  
  Though what happens if enough proven issues are found to change the result? That carpet won’t be big enough.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:13am
  - fernglas
    
    “About a third (34%) of Republicans and independents who lean to the GOP say the theory that powerful people intentionally planned the COVID-19 outbreak is probably or definitely true”
    Just because millions have been conned into believing a lie doesn’t make it any truer.
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:26am
    - Steve Todd
      
      “Just because millions have been conned, primarily by crazy, right-wing, evangelist pastors, into believing a lie doesn’t make it any truer.”
      
      8 25
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      December 28, 2020 10:46am
    - artemisia
      
      Maybe the vote issues are just wishful thinking. Surely best to present the evidence for and against to one or more courts for hearing, cross examination and judgement. If the determination is ‘nothing to see here’ and people see they have been properly heard then the heat will pretty much go away.
      
      It’s called the Rule of Law, not the Rule of Lalalala.
      
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      December 28, 2020 12:37pm
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “The coming days will be amazing.” as Trump is frogged marched after from the Whitehouse after attempting to barricade himself in.
  
  LOL
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:48am
  - NewInoffensiveName
    
    Wanna bet on that SB2?
    
    6 6
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    December 28, 2020 4:25pm
    - Alan1930
      
      Being the coward that Trump is I’d bet that he’ll leave peacefully.
      
      Either way he will be leaving in about 3 weeks.
      
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      December 28, 2020 6:56pm
- IC5000
  
  > Court losses have been based on ‘standing’ rather than the merits of the cases.
  
  No, this is a lie peddled by liars who want to fool the public.
  
  As the Stalinist propaganda organ the Financial Times reports there are cases being rejected on the basis of evidence and that legitimate process is being followed.
  
  https://www.ft.com/content/20b114b5-5419-493b-9923-a918a2527931
  
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  December 28, 2020 2:26pm
- Alan1930
  
  ‘The coming days will be amazing’
  
  If I had just $1 for every time someone has said that trying to defend the indefensible and it’s turned out not to amount to anything I’d have long since retired a multi-millionaire.
  
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  December 28, 2020 4:55pm
  - chukar
    
    All.
    Why do we bother to vote?
    The US has its problems,NZ has MMP
    Democracy is stuffed where ever we look.
    The entitleds contempt shown to voters can only end badly unless the rule of law and democracy is resurrected.
    
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    December 28, 2020 8:29pm
Justitia

Is the world now beginning to feel the effects of the Grand Solar Minimum upon which we embarked in 2020 and which is predicted to continue until at least 2053?: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2020.1796243

The last comparable period of cooling due to reduced solar activity was the Maunder Minimum from 1645-1710 during the Little Ice Age which was characterized by cold summers, long frigid winters and rivers such as the Thames regularly freezing over. It is expected that terrestrial temperatures will decline by about 1 to 1.5 degrees C as in the Maunder Minimum.

Man made climate change cultists of course assert that global warming will more than offset the cooling effects of the Minimum. Sitting here at my computer in my thermals (changed daily) for the third summer’s day running I somehow don’t think they’re winning. But we shall see. Will the alleged effects of tiny increases in the trace gas CO2 (0.041% of the atmosphere) prevail over a considerable reduction in the Sun’s irradiance? I call bullshit on that.

Memo to Cindy: your “nuclear free moment” is in the fridge.
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December 28, 2020 8:17am
- tedbear
  
  The PM declaring a covid emergency placed all of NZ at level 4 lockdown for four weeks.
  
  The PM declaring climate change was her nuclear moment resulted in no action thus far.
  The PM declaring a climate change emergency resulted in no action thus far.
  
  Come on Jacinda, the world is looking to you to take decisive action.
  The use of fossil fuels worldwide is destroying the climate.
  The least you can do is to ban all further EV imports as they’re made out of fossil fuels plus you should declare our entire motor vehicle fleet be in level 4 lockdown for one week in every month for 2021.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:08am
  - kevn
    
    @Ted…Every EV owner should be made to watch the cobalt (essential for an EV’s battery) mining with child /slave labour videos on YuTube.
    
    42 3
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    December 28, 2020 10:23am
    - sooty
      
      Snow fell on Mt Egmont satuday night!
      
      14 0
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      December 28, 2020 12:24pm
      - SB2
        
        Where is “Mt Egmont”?
        
        Campbell Island?
        
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        December 28, 2020 4:24pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Where is “Mt Egmont”?
        
        In the middle of Egmont National Park.
        Up the road from Egmont Village.
        
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        December 28, 2020 5:21pm
      - giltee
        
        Plenty of snow on Mt Cook
        
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        December 28, 2020 8:57pm
- redeye
  
  Didn’t you get the memo? It’s not global warming anymore. It’s climate change.
  And that simply means they can tax the weather.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s 10C outside, I’ve turned the heater on.. decided to flag a morning swim…
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:44am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    After a warm start to summer, temperatures have plummeted in Christchurch. 4 degrees this morning with the situation forecast to only improve slowly followed by wet and windy weather over New Year.
    
    I know this gets debated occasionally but New Zealanders would be better off having a short Christmas break followed by a longer break in February. The change could be initiated by changing the long school holidays to begin in the last week of January.
    
    Ever since I have been in New Zealand the weather between Christmas and early January seems to often turn cold and wet in some parts of the country. Only 10 days ago it was 30 degrees in Christchurch.
    
    As for climate change no amount of science will cause the activists to change course. Imagine Jacinda saying “oops sorry stand down there is no climate crisis. Enjoy your Ford Ranger.”
    
    That is because Jacinda neither understands or cares about climate change. If she did, she would help Poland and Belarus reduce their emissions. For the same cost that would be 100 times more effective than the ridiculous and futile attempt to reduce New Zealand emissions.
    
    No, for Jacinda and cheered on by the Greens this is an opportunity to impose control and take away freedom. I think it is a good thing that a person in New Zealand on a low income can buy a perfectly adequate car for 6,000 dollars and enjoy transport independence. Make no mistake the Government is going to end that.
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:01am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      https://www.wellingtonwater.co.nz/your-water/drinking-water/looking-after-your-water/watering-restrictions/
      Climate change/warming my ass.
      It’s been raining in Wgtn (on and off) for 3 days.
      Remember around the start of “summer” they said we would have a severe El Nino effect and how we haven’t heard a word about it since.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0YARpkI3U
      Stop the weather waffle
      
      18 2
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      December 28, 2020 12:04pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Actually, La Nina.
        
        11 2
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        December 28, 2020 12:52pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Don
        El Niño is the warm phase of the El Niño–Southern Oscillation and is associated with a band of warm ocean water that develops in the central and east-central equatorial Pacific, including the area off the Pacific coast of South America.
        This is what they were predicting.
        
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        December 28, 2020 2:44pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @RW Capitalist
        
        No… it’s La Nina this summer
        
        https://www.metocean.co.nz/news/2020/9/25/la-nina-confirmed-for-new-zealand#:~:text=Earlier%20in%20September%202020%20the,%25%20certainty)%20and%20into%202021.
        
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        December 28, 2020 4:42pm
      - NewInoffensiveName
        
        The climate is gonna change and it has nothing to do with CO2 or emissions taxes. Grand Solar Minimum! Invest in ski areas!
        
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        December 28, 2020 4:45pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    decided to flag a morning swim…
    
    Even though, in my opinion, you are nowhere near to being the “old” lady you sometimes claim to be, that was nevertheless a wise decision, one I would’ve made myself.
    
    (I’m older than you, Maggy, and no way am I “old”.)
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:14am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’m not talking about going for a dip at Kaiti Beach..
      
      I prefer heated pools (especially for Winter swimming).
      
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      December 28, 2020 11:20am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Ah, that clarifies things. Thanks, Maggy.
        
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        December 28, 2020 12:07pm
  - giltee
    
    Temp in Perth’s been colder than usual. Been in the early 30’s and down as low as the teens. Have had to put shoes and jeans on ?
    
    1 1
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    December 28, 2020 9:07pm
- kowtow
  
  Someone alluded to Lysenkoism the other day , and that is what we see .
  
  It matters not to the Power Elites , they see the opportunity for huge profits based on the emotional demands of school children and deluded leftists .
  
  Emotion and ideology over science . Ordinary folk will be impoverished by it and millions could starve as productive farm land is sequestered or turned into alternative fuel sources .
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:56am
  - Bob
    
    millions could starve as productive farm land …..
    lies fallow and unworked growing weeds as the Sheeple line up at the soup kitchen windows. Aint Communism great, such a UTOPIA.
    
    15 1
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    December 28, 2020 11:53am
- Andrew Worth
  
  We are not in a Grand Solar Minimum such as the Maunder minimum because solar activity in terms of Sunspot numbers is far higher than during the Maunder minimum.
  
  “It is expected that terrestrial temperatures will decline by about 1 to 1.5 degrees C as in the Maunder Minimum.”
  
  Expected by whom? Your link makes no such claims.
  
  “Sitting here at my computer in my thermals (changed daily) for the third summer’s day running I somehow don’t think they’re winning.”
  
  Hard to believe an adult would seriously make that argument – “it’s been colder than average in my town for the last few, therefore global warming isn’t happening. That’s just idiotsville territory.
  
  “Will the alleged effects of tiny increases in the trace gas CO2 (0.041% of the atmosphere) prevail over a considerable reduction in the Sun’s irradiance? I call bullshit on that.”
  
  Perhaps English is your second language. CO2 has increased by 45% due to human activity, even during the Maunder minimum the reduction in solar output was only 0.2%, not much greater than the changes in solar output over the 11 year solar cycle.
  
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  December 28, 2020 6:57pm
  - Andrew Worth
    
    Here’s a video that explains the confusion that’s led to the claims of a new Mini Ice Age, including follow-up questions to Valentina Zharkova.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjgCaF9BGUo&t=1514s
    
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    December 28, 2020 7:31pm
    - Justitia
      
      This video is the typically patronising nonsense we have come to expect from half educated metro elite devotees of man-made climate change voodoo. Complete bollocks.
      
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      December 29, 2020 4:36pm
      - Andrew Worth
        
        Pathetic, you’re not capable of refuting the information so you attack the person.
        
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        December 29, 2020 8:45pm
  - Justitia
    
    Dear Andrew, CO2 levels have been ten times higher than at present and the Earth and life have survived. The oceans release CO2 in response to warming, which is caused by solar radiation. Water vapour is by far the most potent “greenhouse gas”, although the greenhouse analogy itself is a perverse misrepresentation of reality. Happy to take you on in my thermals or not, anytime. And we are now in a Grand Solar Minimum whose extent is yet to be seen.
    
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    December 28, 2020 8:53pm
    - Andrew Worth
      
      CO2 levels have been ten times higher than at present and the Earth and life have survived.
      
      Yes, what’s your point? Take into account 1. The faint Sun (the Sun brightens by about 1% every 100 million years) 2. Earth’s albedo and 3. atmospheric GHG concentrations and what the Earths (stable) temperature will be can be accurately calculated.
      
      The oceans release CO2 in response to warming, which is caused by solar radiation.
      Yes, if the oceans are warmer CO2 solubility is lower, so if they warm they release CO2, which results in a positive feedback, but not a run-away feed-back. The 100,000 year long glacial – interglacial cycle and how changes in insolation as a result of Earth’s orbital cycles, changes in the Earth’s albedo as a result of changes in ice cover and the resulting climate changes interact are not a mystery to science, they are however evidently a mystery to you.
      
      Water vapour is by far the most potent “greenhouse gas”
      Yes, and as you know (if you know any climate science at all) the level of water vapour the atmosphere can support is dependent on temperature, (just as the amount of CO2 the oceans can hold is dependent on temperature) and for this reason water vapour is a feed-back, not a forcing. Because the amount of CO2 in the atmospheric is not dependent on atmospheric temperatures CO2 is a forcing GH gas, not a feed-back. So if we lift atmospheric temperatures by increasing CO2 we increase the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere – further increasing temperatures. Climate sensitivity – is a result of forcing GHG’s plus the water vapour feed-back.
      It should be noted that even though the oceans are warming they are also at this time acting as a CO2 sink, this is due to the rapid rate of atmospheric CO2 increase, resulting in the partial pressure of atmospheric CO2 being much higher than oceanic partial pressure, think of it in terms of a bottle of coke, if the cap is on with a lot of CO2 gas trapped in the bottle most of the CO2 in the liquid will stay in the liquid even if the temperature increases, pump more gas into the bottle so increasing the gas pressure, much of that added CO2 will be forced into the liquid despite the bottle being warm.
      
      although the greenhouse analogy itself is a perverse misrepresentation of reality.
      Yes, they teach you that in 5th form, an actual GH works principally by eliminating convection. So?
      
      And we are now in a Grand Solar Minimum whose extent is yet to be seen.
      Which is a complete reversal of your earlier claim that we are in a GSM that would have the same effects on climate as the Maunder Minimum. GSM’s happen from time to time, the Oort Minimum, for example, happened right in the middle of the MWP, and, if you watched the video I linked to (if you did I commend you, most people choose not to reasonably consider information that contradicts what they want to believe) you would have discovered that the LIA started long before the start of the Maunder Minimum.
      
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      December 28, 2020 11:05pm
      - Justitia
        
        I had retired for the evening by the time your final post appeared. Here is the conclusions section from the Zharkhova editorial which I posted with my original comment. The editorial is dated June this year:
        
        “In this editorial, I have demonstrated that the recent progress with understanding a role of the solar background magnetic field in defining solar activity and with quantifying the observed magnitudes of magnetic field at different times allowed us to enable reliable long-term prediction of solar activity on a millennium timescale. This approach revealed a presence of not only 11-year solar cycles but also of grand solar cycles with duration of 350–400 years. We demonstrated that these grand cycles are formed by the interferences of two magnetic waves with close but not equal frequencies produced by the double solar dynamo action at different depths of the solar interior. These grand cycles are always separated by grand solar minima of Maunder minimum type, which regularly occurred in the past forming well-known Maunder, Wolf, Oort, Homeric, and other grand minima.
        
        During these grand solar minima, there is a significant reduction of solar magnetic field and solar irradiance, which impose the reduction of terrestrial temperatures derived for these periods from the analysis of terrestrial biomass during the past 12,000 or more years. The most recent grand solar minimum occurred during Maunder Minimum (1645–1710), which led to reduction of solar irradiance by 0.22% from the modern one and a decrease of the average terrestrial temperature by 1.0–1.5°C.
        
        This discovery of double dynamo action in the Sun brought us a timely warning about the upcoming grand solar minimum 1, when solar magnetic field and its magnetic activity will be reduced by 70%. This period has started in the Sun in 2020 and will last until 2053. During this modern grand minimum, one would expect to see a reduction of the average terrestrial temperature by up to 1.0°C, especially, during the periods of solar minima between the cycles 25–26 and 26–27, e.g. in the decade 2031–2043.
        
        The reduction of a terrestrial temperature during the next 30 years can have important implications for different parts of the planet on growing vegetation, agriculture, food supplies, and heating needs in both Northern and Southern hemispheres. This global cooling during the upcoming grand solar minimum 1 (2020–2053) can offset for three decades any signs of global warming and would require inter-government efforts to tackle problems with heat and food supplies for the whole population of the Earth.”
        
        Significant implications for food production and keeping people warm are foreshadowed which it is suggested will require inter-governmental cooperation.
        
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        December 29, 2020 8:46am
      - Andrew Worth
        
        I’m puzzled why you think that quoting something I’ve already addressed adds anything to the discussion. In the video I linked to Zharkhova admits she’s not qualified to comment on the effects on Earth of such solar changes, the video goes on to assertain the sources of her claims about such a drop in temperature and reveals those sources are newspaper articles subsequently corrected and bloggers with no expertise in such matters.
        
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        December 29, 2020 1:36pm
- Master Mariner
  
  May as well chuck in the fact we are going into La Nina. Great for farmers through the summer.
  
  Not so good for beach goers during summer, plenty unsettled weather. check your forecast first.
  
  On another note, I thought it went in approx every 20-30 years. ? Heightened Solar sun spot activity ?
  
  Oh well , Try and see Auroras ( N / S) as wont be as spectacular any time soon.
  
  Again physics reigns supreme over Folklore, Religionous beliefs and Psycho Babble.
  
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  December 28, 2020 7:55pm
KevO'Brien

Kennedy and Nixon didn’t face modern day potential internet deception. Here is a report on the current problems. If people can’t be sure their votes are given equal weight the election can only be a pursuit of permanent control by the usurping party.
https://trendingpolitics.com/breaking-sidney-powell-releases-massive-27-page-document-detailing-alleged-election-fraud/
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December 28, 2020 8:32am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I actually had a look at some of her allegations in the link. She certainly is walking on the wild side off conspiracy.
  If that is all Trump has now got, he must know in his heart the Mar de Largo beckons for the next four years.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:37am
  - Andrei
    
    Here is the Forensic report on the voting machines in Antrim County Michigan Dr Mapp.
    
    As you probably wont recall on Election night 202 Antim County reported 7,769 for Biden and 4,509 for Trump
    
    It turned out the acrual values are 9,748 for Trump and 5,960 for Biden
    
    How did this happen?
    
    I expect you will not read the report because you don’t want to know the truth – how can an oik like Donald Trump be more popular in the heartlands than those born to rule Washington elites?
    
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    December 28, 2020 8:58am
    - Steve Todd
      
      How did this happen?
      
      See my reply to Fletch, at General Debate on Saturday 26, at 12:21PM. (Scroll down about 6 cm.)
      
      [This: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/12/general_debate_26_december_2020.html#comment-2864281 Mod.]
      
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      December 28, 2020 10:33am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Excellent! Thanks, Mod.
        
        I’ve tried, and tried, over several years, ever since I first saw Maggy do it, to link to my comments like that, but I simply can’t work out how to do it.
        
        [The link is the last part of each post, the part with the date & time. Save that as a link. Mod.]
        
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        December 28, 2020 11:08am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The fact that you can locate previous posts so easily on KB is one of its features that keeps me here.
        
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        December 28, 2020 11:23am
      - Andrei
        
        Hand waving and “trust us we know what we are doing” just wont cut it Steve Todd.
        
        68% of the Ballots in Antrim County were sent for adjudication, a process where an adjudicator can dtermin the voters intent and alter the ballot accordingly and a process that wasn’t monitored
        
        The FEC standard for an acceptable level of pallots going to adjudication is 0.004% or 1 in 250,000. 68% as opposed to 004% is not acceptable in anyones books
        
        Furthermore the adjudication logs were physically deleted as were the security logs for the machines – funny that
        
        But we shouldn’t be suspicious oh no – the powers that run the election have told us everything is above board so move on.
        
        FFS
        
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        December 28, 2020 11:33am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Ohh, who would’ve known. Thank you, Mod. I shall start doing that immediately.
        
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        December 28, 2020 12:25pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Okay, it turns out I am thick, after all.
        
        Sorry about this. When you say, “Save that as a link”, what does that mean? I right-clicked on the date and time, but rather than save it, I had to copy it to my draft comment in Word. Where would I save it to?
        
        Also, Maggy says it’s easy to locate her comments, but I still can’t see how it is. If, in a year’s time, I want to locate one of my comments from GD today, what enables me to go straight to it? Trawling back through a year’s worth of draft comments in Word is by no means easy.
        
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        December 28, 2020 12:57pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Steve Todd
        
        If, in a year’s time, I want to locate one of my comments from GD today, what enables me to go straight to it?
        
        There are a number of techniques for locating a previous comment on GD.
        (I can’t guarantee that you will get straight to it)..
        
        but
        1. Having a very good memory for an uncommon word/phrase usage helps
        2. Use the search (magnifying glass) facility on the RHS top Kiwiblog Title line
        3. Search GD using Archives at bottom of KB page
        4. Call for KBers help (Nostradamus to the rescue)
        
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        December 28, 2020 1:47pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thank you so much, Maggy. I use variants of No. 1 all the time.
        
        I’ve copied your reply for future reference.
        
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        December 28, 2020 2:07pm
    - Alan1930
      
      So in summary when the machines were tested and found to be accurate and reliable by multiple independent organisations you reject that but when a report is written by a Republican with no formal qualifications in computer science but a proven track record of not knowing his arse from his elbow (remembering that this is the same guy who confused Minnesota for Michigan and stated that Detroit had a turnout of 139% when it was 51%) you think it’s gospel?
      
      Give me a break.
      
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      December 28, 2020 4:49pm
    - Andrew Worth
      
      That “Forensic report” is complete nonsense:
      This week, Russ Ramsland’s Allied Security Operations Group—a biased, non-independent organization—released a severely flawed “forensic audit report” that further contributes to the continuing malicious and widespread disinformation campaign aimed at eroding confidence in the integrity of the 2020 presidential election. Ramsland is a notorious conspiracy theorist, and gave a presentation in 2018 in which he claimed the “Deep State” was formed when the Muslim Brotherhood, President George H.W. Bush’s father, leftists, and George Soros came together in Nazi Germany in the 1930s—although Soros was born in 1930. He also falsely claimed in an affidavit that in Detroit, voter turnout was 139.29% and that turnout in North Muskegon was an eye-popping 781.97%; in reality, the turnout in those places was 50.88% and 78.11%, respectively.
      
      https://www.dominionvoting.com/election-2020-setting-the-record-straight-antrim-county-michigan/
      
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      December 28, 2020 9:35pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    He will actually be on the road for much of the time, bilking the faithful rubes for millions more at rallies.
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:03am
  - Monique Watson
    
    Wayne, Trump’s not even welcome at Mar-a-Lago. The neighbors are fighting to keep him out. The club rules he enacted in ’93 prevent members using it as a residence.
    No member shall reside there for seven consecutive days no longer than three weeks a year.
    Who on KB still believes that he’s not a deluded narcissistic prick from the lower levels of hell?
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:48am
  - Stu2
    
    Perhaps not.
    
    There are a nunber of state level cases that may be brought against him. They have been back burnered as you can’t bring them against a sitting president.
    
    Even if he can self-pardon that only protects against federal level actions.
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:19am
- Steve Todd
  
  Kev, the point of my post was to demonstrate the completely different attitude to defeat, in supposedly similar circumstances, between Nixon and Trump.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:57am
- Thought Criminal
  
  When did 27 pages become massive?
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:05am
  - RJ
    
    270 pages, It is one of her binders, of all the evidence they have. More to be released
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:13am
    - Alan1930
      
      And by ‘evidence’ you mean more conjecture, conspiracy theories, and wishful thinking from biased & unqualified individuals that will be dismissed by every court just as fast as all the other so-called ‘evidence’ has been to date.
      
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      December 28, 2020 7:06pm
      - giltee
        
        It seems to be lost on many that if you’re going to cheat you bury the evidence where it can’t be found. Not only that there was many prepared to go to any length including the media to see trump gone and we’ll never know if the American election were fair or foul.
        
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        December 28, 2020 9:27pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    You didn’t click on his link, did you C T? It’s 270 pages.
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:16am
    - Steve Todd
      
      ‘T C’. Sorry, T C.
      
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      December 28, 2020 9:23am
Maggy Wassilieff

Interesting Horticulture course being run at Christchurch Prison.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433685/three-hospitalised-after-eating-datura-at-christchurch-prison

(If a prisoner can recognise a toxic hallucinogenic weed, then I’d expect the Tutor/Instructor to recognise it also…and have it removed)
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December 28, 2020 8:34am
- Swifty
  
  Something seemed odd to me about that story Maggy – I mean the datura plant is so distinctive, how could the staff possibly miss it?
  
  Did they not know what they were looking at, on their own prison grounds?
  
  Good grief.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:40am
  - Souvlaki
    
    The staff planted the damn thing FFS!
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:50am
    - john1234
      
      And if the Nats or Serco were running it, Kelvin “Token” Davis would be howling and the media would keep raising it for weeks on end.
      
      But now, gets as much coverage as people living in cars do these days.
      
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      December 28, 2020 12:19pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Datura poisoning is no joke. It was quite popular as a psychoactive tea in California in the early 00s. Docs in the ER learned the toxidrome very, very quickly.
  
  {Mod. Note: Toxidrome – A toxidrome is a syndrome caused by a dangerous level of toxins in the body. The term was coined in 1970 by Mofenson and Greensher. It is often the consequence of a drug overdose. Combines the words toxin & syndrome. (wiki)]
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:54am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Can send you blind if too much among’st other more obvious side effects
    
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    December 28, 2020 12:25pm
  - artemisia
    
    There is a big datura tree in my street overhanging the footpath. The kids probably got sick of me saying several times a year – remember that’s what datura looks like, anyone offers you datura tea – run.
    
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    December 28, 2020 12:31pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      That tree is most likely to be a Brugmansia – Angel’s trumpet – a close relative to Datura .
      
      https://www.nzpcn.org.nz/flora/species/brugmansia-candida/
      
      If it’s large flowers are hanging down, it’s Brugmansia. Some of the horticultural forms are very attractive..and readily available.
      
      I’ve got a couple growing on my roadside verge, but as there’s no shortage of illegal drugs hereabouts, no-one seems to have shown any interest in harvesting it’s flowers or leaves.
      
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      December 28, 2020 3:12pm
      - Swifty
        
        Angels point their trumpet down from heaven and devils point their trumpet up from hell.
        
        Which one to go for? The devil’s one, obviously.
        
        So I’ve been told…..
        
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        December 28, 2020 3:26pm
  - Swifty
    
    Popular in parts of Wellington’s druggie circles in the 70s and 80s.
    
    Don’t know about now.
    
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    December 28, 2020 12:39pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Thanks Mod, I forget about my jargon at times…
    
    I’ll be teaching that in February as well, anybody fancy a 2 hr lecture in intro toClinical Tox? (LOL jk).
    
    Useless fact for the day – there’s a small number of well known toxidromes that cover the major poisons/ODs – the wiki site has most of the drug ones (apart from tricyclics), there’s a couple common enviro exposures as well. I test and test and examine and set assignments over and over again, and insist my med and pharmacy students learn them. Some time round 2011/2012 an ex-med student called me out of the blue, he’d been on residency (=house surgeon) in the ER and a field hand came in acting odd, the senior doctor thought he was drunk but my ex-student recognized cholinergic toxidrome (from pesticide exposure), he wanted to tell me I’d saved a life that day. Ever since that phone call, I am mentally quite prepared to retire, and happily.
    
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    December 28, 2020 2:33pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    Some of my mates were into the stuff in the early ’80’s.
    It did nasty things to them. After seeing that I stuck to the speights and the odd joint.
    
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    December 28, 2020 3:32pm
KevO'Brien

How valid is our testing regime? Is a test using a multiplication of 1 trillion times not designed to produce false positives?
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/new-covid-19-strain-political-disaster-our-own-making
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December 28, 2020 8:35am
Kiwi_in_Paris

When it comes to freedom, Cindy will stop at nothing to get it!
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December 28, 2020 8:45am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Imagine – there are people who believe that the temperature of the planet can be controlled by giving the Govt more money
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December 28, 2020 8:55am
- PaulDunmore
  
  Of course it can: the Government can burn enough money to warm the whole planet.
  
  (Sorry, couldn’t resist: I really do understand the physics of atmospheric CO2.)
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:01am
- Ruahine
  
  I think it must be working Steve. This giving money to the gov’t to cool the planet has to stop.
  When I got up this morning the temperature was 9 degrees C. in Auckland.
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:05am
- Rich Prick
  
  Oh, but giving money to the Government can do far more than that. It will eliminate poverty, slash the road toll (thanks to ACC’s motorbike “safety levy”) and bring about world peace. Why don’t we give it even more?
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:24am
  - RJ
    
    Na, the best way to slash the road toll is to release a virus and lock the country down.
    
    20 4
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    December 28, 2020 9:26am
    - oldfella
      
      RJ, just build fewer roads and tunnels and stop making it so damned convenient for people to use their cars. That’ll fix the road toll.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300194135/forest-and-bird-on-mt-messenger-bypass-sacrificing-nature-for-human-convenience
      
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      December 28, 2020 11:09am
    - GJM
      
      13 people died on the roads during lockdown, when nobody was supposed to be out and about. Even the whole country on home d didn’t work
      
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      December 28, 2020 8:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am sure Jaspinda has thought about it
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:06am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Keep paying Steve.
  
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  December 28, 2020 11:43am
lazza

Auckland Countdown and New World supermarket strawberries are still! almost inedible without the application of lashings of castor sugar. So what’s up? Maybe another trip to the B o P? where their berries are naturally ripened outdoor grown and mostly non hydroponic. All the things the money hungry Auckland growers… are not.
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December 28, 2020 9:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  That sounds like under-ripe. Some fruit only has a 24 hour window when it it at it’s best–I have to nab our raspberries daily.
  Commercial harvesting has to allow for marketing and transport so it will ripen to optimal in the supermarket.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:21am
  - hullkiwi
    
    …..and be tasteless as a consequence.
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:28am
- Inandout
  
  Leave the strawbs out of the fridge over night as they are tasteless cold. Also a grower advised to wash and dry the fruit as soon as you get home, put into an air tight container, and place in fridge. They will keep for days. We don’t have indoor strawberries in our area, all outside grown, but they are relatively easy to grow at home.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:31am
RJ

Who’s Stealing America? – Epoch Times Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvk5uRbEX8o&feature=youtu.be
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December 28, 2020 9:30am
- Inandout
  
  RJ, the censorship in this country is so bloody obvious that more people now mention it. Thank God for the internet.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:34am
I remember when

Covid-19:
At the moment Sweden is at number 15 in the European list of death rates per million. @27th Dec
Belgium 1644, Slovenia 1218, Boznia & Herz 1199, Italy 1185, North Macedonia 1165, Spain 1065, UK 1034, Bulgaria 1029. Czechia 1022, France 958, Armenia 928, Hungary 928, Croatia 883, Switzerland 828,
Sweden 817.
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December 28, 2020 9:48am
- kevn
  
  @I rem… Almost half of Swedens covid cases are recent migrants. Apparently.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:28am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  What is NZ’s count bro? Cindy is asking with a smile on her face.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:48am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  The Spanish flu rate was 16,000 deaths per million in Aotearoa.
  
  Including LARGE numbers of otherwise young, fit and healthy smokers (99% of the population then, 13% today).
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:58am
  - calendar girl
    
    New Zealand.
    
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    December 28, 2020 2:05pm
  - curry4me
    
    Dctor Sigmund Freud. That’s what my great, great grandma died of. She arrived from England in 1859.
    
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    December 28, 2020 6:50pm
- rouppe
  
  What, so the USA is not even in the top 15? But… Trump!
  
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  December 28, 2020 11:34am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    The list was Europe only.
    
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    December 28, 2020 2:20pm
  - curry4me
    
    rouppe: Orange man not so bad after all. -;)
    
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    December 28, 2020 6:51pm
SB2

One of the latest dispatches from the
Jerusalem Post

” Proud Boys leader trying to rebrand the group as explicitly antisemitic”

“We will confront the Zionist criminals who wish to destroy our civilization,” Chapman wrote after using other bigoted language.

One of the leaders of the Proud Boys, the far-right group that President Donald Trump told to “stand back and stand by” during a presidential debate, is trying to rebrand the organization as explicitly white supremacist and antisemitic…”

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/proud-boys-leader-trying-to-rebrand-the-group-as-explicitly-antisemitic-648831
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December 28, 2020 9:51am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are you then Semitic and anti-everything else?
  
  9 8
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  December 28, 2020 10:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    If I hadn’t already read many (too many) of your comments, I would be labelling this one as just about the stupidest thing I have ever seen on this blog.
    Congratulations, though, this makes you ever more stupid than SB2.
    
    8 19
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    December 28, 2020 10:37am
- Inandout
  
  SB2, do they also do the ‘kneel feel’?:
  ‘be in or assume a position in which the body is supported by a knee or the knees, as when praying or showing submission’.
  
  14 2
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  December 28, 2020 10:38am
  - SB2
    
    Inandout, like here?
    
    Why did Jesus kneel in prayer?
    
    The only time Jesus is shown kneeling in prayer is in the garden of Gethsemane. What is the significance of this posture?
    
    https://www.versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/why-did-jesus-kneel-in-prayer
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:07am
I remember when

Africa 1918-19 ‘Spanish’ Influenza pandemic.
Of the Continents, Africa – particularly sub-Saharan – suffered the highest average mortality rate.
The pandemic killed nearly 2% of Africa’s population within six months.
There were three distinct waves –
* First wave, March-July 1918, infectious but relatively mild.
* The deadly second wave, in August-December 1918.
* A serious but more moderate third wave in 1919.
The first wave touched only North Africa (the Maghrib and Egypt) and Southeastern Africa (especially Natal Province and adjoining territories). Both suffered markedly lighter impact from the second wave.
Those areas untouched by the first wave, the bulk of the population, had no opportunity to develop a degree of immunity to the deadlier second wave.
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December 28, 2020 9:59am
- Don Beckett
  
  In New Zealand, 9,000 people from a population of around 1,000,000 died in 1918. The following year, a further 7,000 people died in the second wave.
  The difference was, the Spanish ‘flu tended to target younger people – not the old & infirm.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:48am
- SB2
  
  Much improved medical and other preventaive facilities ( social distancing, lockdowns) , Communications etc these days including PEP equipment and now viable vaccines.
  
  Pretty obvious I would of thought..
  
  3 21
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  December 28, 2020 11:02am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Actually, the lockdowns are a major problem – not so much for the aged & infirm, but for healthy people. Being locked up and separated from other people causes major issues, but the results are’nt seen for 1 – 5 years.
    Also of course, as we are seeing now, lockdowns destroy the economy and lives as well.
    
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    December 28, 2020 12:58pm
kowtow

Private property owners need to be vary wary of vindictive local councils.

‘Owners of a Dunedin property accepted they could not continue to clear native vegetation there, but the Dunedin City Council wanted to go further — insisting on the erection of a 300m fence, listing native species that should be planted, requiring that sycamore and pine trees be felled and asking that habitats for velvet worms be created.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dcc-orders-rejected-court
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December 28, 2020 10:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The trees were only trees, not native humans. Velvet worms? Are they a new restaurant variety?
  Many “native” trees grow too slowly to be useful for planting–tough.
  
  11 5
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  December 28, 2020 10:29am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Velvet worms are Onychophorans – an ancient group of forest-floor beasties that look like long slugs with legs…. They’re also known as peripatus.
    
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/peripatus
    
    http://evolves.massey.ac.nz/peripatus.htm
    
    We have at least 9 native species.
    
    They’re carnivorous and capture their prey by expelling a sticky glue at it.
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:58am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Delightful genus name, darn difficult to transliterate into te reo.
      
      4 2
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      December 28, 2020 3:07pm
CaptainCompromise

Did you know that the central government will take control of all water related services from local government?

I didn’t either, would’ve thought this was something worthy of public debate.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govt-agencies-to-take-control-of-water

My concern is it allows government another stick to bash those who don’t vote for them, or to control people. Gives them the power to charge for water through levies even if you’re on a well.
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December 28, 2020 10:05am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A prelude to passing it to Maori who will on-sell it to Nestles.
  
  Is this another regal blooper by Ardern?
  
  24 5
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  December 28, 2020 10:31am
  - Nickc2
    
    Who will be clipping the ticket for Bottled Water, Maori or Government?
    I’m picking there will be a profit made from all water services and this profit will be split between Maori and Government. This will be a cash splash for both entities.
    However, the cash splash for Maori will be without financial input from them.
    The suckers will be us who have to pay for water services. Govt. ownership of water services will be like our vehicle fuel where taxes/levies are applied for no other reason than to fund politician’s vanity projects.
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:58am
- RJ
  
  Yeah, but it is up to the councils to agree to be part of it, I know how mayor is refusing.
  
  10 3
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  December 28, 2020 10:38am
- chukar
  
  Ngai Tahu are taking the Government to court to get some control over water.
  
  17 1
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  December 28, 2020 11:03am
  - kowtow
    
    Full and final …….yeah right.
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/complaint-industry-still-rambles
    
    7 1
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    December 28, 2020 2:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  There has been very little publicity about the Three Waters programme…
  
  https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme
  
  19 3
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  December 28, 2020 11:09am
  - marcw
    
    Ngai Tahu lodged a statement of claim in the Christchurch High Court on 27 October this year.
    
    ” … tribal leaders have asked the courts to make declarations that the iwi have shared authority with the Crown over policy and management of the waterways. It also seeks costs, as well as declarations that recognise the Crown’s failings, namely breaching its good faith obligations.”
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/hawkes-bay-iwi-backing-south-island-freshwater-claim/QCF7MK3GNF2UESVVMAPNU45PCU/
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:39am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yep, here we go again. Helen Clark showerheads anyone?
    Nationalisation of industry is on the cards again.
    
    14 2
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    December 28, 2020 12:07pm
    - sooty
      
      Along with a cindy coin box next to every toilet in the country!
      
      5 1
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      December 28, 2020 12:42pm
      - Ehlana
        
        I don’t think that would be a good idea sooty. If I was Jacinda, I would be worried about what got deposited into the coin box.
        
        And actually, shouldn’t we be getting coins in payment for our organic fertiliser deposits?
        
        4 2
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        December 28, 2020 4:20pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That is even worse–all water, fresh or soiled, is to pass into state control.
    
    3 3
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    December 28, 2020 3:11pm
    - Mike
      
      What water is not already in state control?
      
      1 3
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      December 28, 2020 6:04pm
Maggie Pie

When I read this gruesome account of what went on in the Auckland suburb of Kingsland in 2019, it literally made the tiny blonde hairs on my arms prickle.
My partner said it reminded him of a chapter from book about serial killer and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer 🙁

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1343067848822775809
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December 28, 2020 10:08am
- SB2
  
  Would at least make a chilling Netflix, Neon etc cold case.
  
  Maybe TVNZ will take it up?
  
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  December 28, 2020 11:17am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Agree.
    Have you watched any of the ‘SAW’ movies?
    They sure get the sphincter clenching a wee bit 😀
    
    5 4
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    December 28, 2020 11:46am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Covid 19 relief bill, Trump is not the problem. Fake news are not reporting the truth, who wooda thunk that?
https://pjmedia.com/columns/stacey-lennox/2020/12/27/the-elites-in-congress-will-blame-trump-for-stalling-the-covid-19-relief-bill-but-hes-not-the-problem-n1287472?
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December 28, 2020 10:32am
- RJ
  
  That bill shows the amount of corruption amongst those who have come up with it.
  
  14 5
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  December 28, 2020 11:10am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, the bill includes millions of dollars to fund “gender programs” in Pakistan, $193 million for federal HIV/AIDS workers stationed abroad to buy new cars, establish a Climate Security Advisory Council, fund an investigation of the “1908 Springfield Race Riot” and enforce horse-racing integrity, outlays funds to address gender inequality amongst statues(!), $40 million for the Kennedy Center, $1.5 million for the Appropriations Committee’s “Office of Diversity and Inclusion”.
  
  And they wonder why Trump wants to cut all that out and give the money exclusively for Covid relief.
  
  https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1341121021257129985
  
  16 5
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  December 28, 2020 11:16am
  - SB2
    
    Fletch lets focus on some facts first,
    
    Verify: Does the COVID-19 relief package include money for foreign governments, museums?
    
    The president’s claim about the COVID-19 relief package is wrong. The relief package is included in a larger government spending bill. Not the other way around.
    
    https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/does-the-covid-19-relief-package-include-money-for-foreign-governments-verify/65-3df7ce79-d9ae-4a82-bbc3-d31e5aa9f9a3
    
    4 20
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    December 28, 2020 11:42am
    - Fletch
      
      Look at my link. It has pics of the actual bill itself, backing up what I said. It is full of money the Democrats are giving for their pet projects. What if that happened here in NZ? What if parliament put through a bill for Covid relief that included money for diversity training, doing up race tracks for horses, gender studies in the Cook Islands, etc. Do you think the ppl of NZ would complain?
      
      14 4
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      December 28, 2020 12:05pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nope, the NZ people would never complain because it would be Queen Jaspinda’s wish to be kind to everyone and everything.
        Opps, needs a neck brace/collar to stop that head tilting
        
        8 5
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        December 28, 2020 2:01pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Fletch, they’re usually referred to Omnibus Bills. They happen all the time.
        
        Regardless, he has just signed the Bill, with $600 checks still in it: https://www.axios.com/trump-to-sign-covid-19-relief-bill-averting-shutdown-892096f7-2a16-440a-9065-e88498ff6277.html.
        
        In other words, he rolled over.
        
        5 5
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        December 28, 2020 2:25pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Fuck me, you can bend and twist shit better than CNN
      
      7 7
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      December 28, 2020 1:56pm
      - Alan1930
        
        One America News is OAN (or OANN) not ‘CNN’.
        
        You might like to proofread your posts before hitting’Post Comment’ as you make lots of mistakes like this.
        
        3 3
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        December 28, 2020 7:13pm
- SB2
  
  This tweet says it all,
  
  BrooklynDad_Defiant!
  
  @mmpadellan
  
  REMINDER: When unemployment benefits end for millions of people in America, trump and republicans own 100% of the blame.
  
  PASS IT ON
  
  .https://twitter.com/mmpadellan/status/1343027923205427206
  
  3 21
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  December 28, 2020 11:39am
  - Fletch
    
    In what way? Trump wants to cut out all the “pork” – Democrats giving millions for their pet projects in the U.S and overseas – and instead have the money solely for what it was meant – relief for those suffering financially because of Covid. In fact, Trump wants to give $2000 to every American, not the $600 that Dems were proposing.
    
    Democrats are 100% to blame, and don’t forget it.
    
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    December 28, 2020 12:01pm
    - Mike
      
      The $600 was all the GOP would allow, Fletch. Why do you keep lying?
      
      6 7
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      December 28, 2020 1:08pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Get it right, Trump wanted to get the publicity of holding out for a greater amount before flip flopping.
      
      5 8
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      December 28, 2020 4:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Democrats want to give away billions to Countries that hate America, rather than look after American CITIZENS!!
  Communist Pelosi is the main problem, but not the only one
  
  14 5
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  December 28, 2020 1:09pm
MCos

I see Neil Wagner is going to play on even with a busted toe.
That’s the spirit!
Another in a long line of people who don’t let their discomfort inconvenience the side.
Donald Trump invented a crook foot so he could get out of fighting for his country.
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December 28, 2020 10:45am
- kowtow
  
  The healthy fit lifeguard Biden got deferrals for “asthma”.
  
  So he too could get out of fighting for his country.
  
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  December 28, 2020 11:46am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Different when the left do it
    
    17 5
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    December 28, 2020 1:09pm
  - IC5000
    
    Asthma precludes military service for a reason, because you need to be able to deploy. People in the military have specific roles so what happens if a radio operator has asthma and cannot deploy with their unit?
    
    Of course as Trump said, he fought his own war dodging STDs in the 60s and 70s during the degenerate era of free love.
    
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    December 28, 2020 2:34pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Well, kowtow, you either have asthma, or you don’t, and if you do, it’s pretty obvious you’ve got it.
    
    (I developed asthma when I was 60 – no reason for it; it just happened. I’ve been using three different inhalers ever since.)
    
    But bone spurs? Yeah, right!
    
    7 2
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    December 28, 2020 3:36pm
- rouppe
  
  FFS, plenty of the “Senators sons” and sons who went to college to get out of the draft were Democrats too.
  
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  December 28, 2020 1:53pm
  - MCos
    
    Doesn’t make it acceptable.
    
    6 0
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    December 28, 2020 3:55pm
pdm

Yesterday afternoon I watched some test cricket – the first time I had seen this Pakistan team in action.

On first impressions left arm fast bowler Shaheen Afridi chucks it. He has a very wristy action but his elbow also staightens.

Inv – have you noticed?
9 3
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December 28, 2020 10:45am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I didn’t notice, but will look more closely. Looks like he might be bowling again this afternoon, the way their batting is crumbling.
  
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  December 28, 2020 1:21pm
Maggie Pie

Just before the 10 o’clock news on ZB, some angry sounding moron rang in to say how he fully supported making Te Reo compulsory in schools.
Had to laugh when the host said “……it will never happen. There is isn’t anybody here to teach it”.

LOL!!
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December 28, 2020 10:47am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  @ Maggie
  
  I assume both the caller and the talkback host were speaking fluent 19th century Maori.
  
  It would be fun for me to call talk back and speak Sumerian 🙂
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, that would be one of the Tim hosts. They are a change from the usual ones, except maybe for Hosking who seems to have disappeared.
  
  3 4
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  December 28, 2020 10:51am
  - pdm
    
    Tim Roxborgh is a rabid lefty and Jacinda sycophant.
    
    27 1
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    December 28, 2020 11:11am
    - rouppe
      
      I think he’s talking about Tim Dower
      
      4 0
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      December 28, 2020 1:56pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        I think it was Tim Beverage.
        
        3 0
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        December 28, 2020 5:33pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    INO…..Mike and Kates are currently living it up in Queestown. Not back till the 18th. Another three weeks of that other hard left pommie clown unfortunately.
    
    9 3
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    December 28, 2020 11:53am
    - Inandout
      
      Maggie, so two weeks before Christmas then back on 18th… who says being a public servant is stressfull? And he usually takes some school holidays off.
      
      3 1
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      December 28, 2020 4:18pm
- pdm
  
  I don’t mind Tim Beveridge – he is no wishy washy liberal – unlike another Tim there.
  
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  December 28, 2020 10:53am
- Pharmachick
  
  “……it will never happen. There is isn’t anybody here to teach it”.
  
  Errr, that would be Maths, Chemistry and Physics.
  
  29 0
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  December 28, 2020 11:00am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Few teachers for that elementary language Te Reo. The language is of little practical use being fossilised about 1835. It’s real significance now is is on the Marae and in the Maori Land Court where genealogies are recited to show land titles and other pre-writing tribal claims.
    
    Maori know they have too few possible teachers. The current public misuse is providing many unauthorised variants–pidginisation is occurring. The shortage of root words and the bastardisation of grammar is not helpful. Even the name Te Reo demonstrates that paucity–“te” is the singular article, “reo” denotes sound, loud, call, police as in Leoleo. With so few words they have to work severely overtime.
    Difficult to teach too as the sentence structure differs vastly from English and there are many more pronouns.
    
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    December 28, 2020 3:39pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Oh I get that Kev, I was just pointing out the more serious shortage that exists.
      
      Also, when I learned Maori in the 80s as a kid, we didn’t learn it bastardized into English grammatical construction… the only language I know (there’s probably a bunch, but I mean “of my experience”) that has similar construction is Farsi… the construction is not concrete (and nor was Maori back in the day) it is much more poetic and abstract. I can understand when somebody is speaking what I now all “current, modern Maori” since they started standardizing it in the 90s (ish) and the new words are mostly appropriations/portmanteaus, but what I speak when required to [which is pretty much zero these days] is more akin to a dialect than what’s taught in schools and Universities these days.
      
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      December 28, 2020 4:11pm
- RJ
  
  I had a principal that tried to make it compulsory, in the end he made it a second language was compulsory, a few Maori students took it up, everyone else including most of the Maori students went for Chinese, German or Spanish.
  
  20 3
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  December 28, 2020 11:08am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    If a kid wants to learn Maori then fine. But I would say that with intelligent parents with a ‘global’ outlook, most kids will opt to learn Mandarin, Spanish, German..indeed ANYTHING will be more useful than Maori. Unless you get your satisfaction out of rarely leaving New Zealand and being woke.
    
    Parents should encourage their kids to become proficient in English, a second langauge, master physics, chemistry, biology and maths. Find a hobby they excel in and a sport they excel in. After those bases are covered the kids can do “recreational” subjects – cook be photography or, indeed learning Maori language.
    
    I would also encourage parents to do 2 more things. First, instill formal and best practice study habits. Second, get your child from a young age to take on one of the many good online courses in ‘critical reasoning’. It is scary that our senior politicians, including you know who, lack this skill. And when you combine it with no understanding of science, the results are terrible, and the nation pays the price.
    
    You can’t get away from the basics for success. oops I forgot. New Zealand has done exactly that. Which is why are kids have gone from the top of the international achievement leagues to the bottom in a generation. And the reaction from the Government to this disaster. Silence.
    
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    December 28, 2020 11:29am
    - NoCash
      
      A typical Asian tiger parent Mr Yu… 🙂
      
      1 14
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      December 28, 2020 12:07pm
      - calendar girl
        
        Good on you, Benedict Yu. Well said.
        
        11 2
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        December 28, 2020 2:39pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Well I’d be happy for him to babysit my kids if they needed it, rather than someone running down a father for wanting their child to succeed, and being prepared to do something to assist the process.
        
        5 2
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        December 28, 2020 4:17pm
    - Bob
      
      Remember that the purpose of Education in NZ now is to expand the illiterate and inumerate voter base for the Communist Party.
      
      7 1
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      December 28, 2020 3:08pm
    - IC5000
      
      > most kids will opt to learn Mandarin
      
      Learning mandarin is actually a colossal waste of time. It takes years if full time study to even approach the level of a child. It’s better if kids build up their interpersonal skills, learn how to speak persuasively and sell or learn the basics of programming than language study.
      
      3 6
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      December 28, 2020 4:19pm
    - Inandout
      
      BY, we had a Chinese boy student for a year and he was an only child. Talk about ‘Little Emporer’, he was spoilt rotten by his parents, like always having $3,000 in his bank account, and regularly topped up.
      
      5 3
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      December 28, 2020 4:36pm
      - Alan1930
        
        Sounds like China knows a thing or two about creating prosperity for their citizens.
        
        Who would have guessed that hard work, education, and isolation from bat-shit-crazy conspiracies could be so advantageous to the population.
        
        2 2
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        December 28, 2020 7:18pm
      - NoCash
        
        @Alan1930
        China is far from being a model society and the CCP is despicable in many ways, but one aspect that’s admirable is that China seems to be immune from excessive wokeness, an achilles heel of the the modern West.
        
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        December 28, 2020 8:21pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It is difficult to explain to some students (and their parents) how limiting it can be for them if they haven’t got some basic maths at their fingertips.
      
      Pupils who drop maths at Level 2 NCEA (year 12, 6th form) are effectively closing the door to many career paths (or at the very least – setting themselves up for hours of catch-up lessons).
      
      8 0
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      December 28, 2020 4:59pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  But have you noticed that whenever someone calls talkback to strongly advocate making ‘Maori’ compulsory in schools, they themselves seem to have a poor grasp on speaking the Queen’s English.
  
  Just saying eh.
  
  24 3
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  December 28, 2020 11:36am
  - chukar
    
    But, but we need Te Reo or we will never be able to read our lovely new road signs!
    
    20 2
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    December 28, 2020 12:17pm
    - oldfella
      
      Or correctly pronounce the new name of our country – Ayoteearower
      
      5 2
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      December 28, 2020 12:51pm
    - Inandout
      
      chuck, or having Waka Kotah in huge lettering, and NZ Transport Agency barely readable on your relicensing papers.
      
      5 0
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      December 28, 2020 4:39pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    But imagine getting a degree in nuclear physics, completely in Te Reo
    
    17 3
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    December 28, 2020 1:13pm
    - rouppe
      
      Whoton = Photon
      Ngukleus = Nucleus
      Easy
      
      10 3
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      December 28, 2020 2:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        All that taxing of the brain, they need a smoke – hikoreti.
        ffs
        
        7 4
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        December 28, 2020 2:58pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Pai misoni
        Fotoni
        Te Nukelesi
        Isipisi
        
        5 2
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        December 28, 2020 3:44pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Good point Steve.
      
      The dominant language in any country or the world for that matter, is always going to the language of exchange, trading or progress.
      
      Maori is a dead language, but fine if you someone or a group of people want to indulge or remember it. Maori keep crying poor and criminally over-represented, and that is caused by a failure to understand the language of exchange, trading, and civilised values and principles.
      
      Imagine being Maori and keeping it alive and having your peers forced to use Te Reo. Speaking only Maori will prevent you from learning computer programing, web programming, becoming a pilot, a rocket scientist, and one of any one of thousands of jobs that require a good grasp of the English language.
      
      By enforcing Te Reo Maori, and encouraging Maori to speak it as a first or only language, the government are assigning those individuals to low paying labouring jobs where good English is not required. In effect, the government is standing tall by the pool edge, with one foot on the head of Maori, pushing it under the water, all the while chanting “You poor fracking Maori. You are being discriminated against.”
      
      This government, and Jacinda, do not care about Maori. They do not want to enable Maori by improving their communication achieved by becoming proficient in the language of exchange and trade. They want like very socialist/communist/fascist before them, to disable Maori and indigenous races in general, in order to make them subservient and dependent on the state, and therefor controllable.
      
      If you don’t believe this, go online and find out what jobs of significance you can get only speaking Maori, and how many of those jobs exist.
      
      Instead of forcing Te Reo on English speaking New Zealanders, they should be focusing on the English illiterate Maori speaking fluent English. Their future depends on it.
      
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      December 28, 2020 2:01pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Maori language stopped developing with the Treaty. NZ got opened up to becoming a dual nation and the newcomers used a language which had extra opportunities.
        Samoa has had to face language development but they had a homogeneous population so development occurred according to custom under supervision of the Law Draftsman. However, teaching had been available in English prior to independence from NZ. English has continued as a second but essential language for all. This has created a literate society well in touch with its culture but taking its place in the contemporary world. The Samoan language remains fundamental as their lives are mainly conducted in it or a mixture.
        Te Reo may be appropriate for some rural villages but it is largely obsolete. It is too late to force the majority of the NZ population to use this undeveloped alternative to its substantive transliteration.
        
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        December 28, 2020 4:06pm
  - HemiT
    
    no i haven’t really noticed
    and can’t specifically remember , anyone ‘ strongly advocating compulsory Maori language , having ” a poor grasp on speaking the Queen’s English .
    
    that man today wanting Maori compulsory spoke clear English .
    the well Maori pronouncing women who rang in not wanting it compulsory also spoke clear English
    
    Just saying eh .
    
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    December 28, 2020 9:16pm
- bruceavon
  
  Don’t really understand this stuff. It already seems compulsory to me. My kids all learnt it and all my friends kids. Certainly more fluent than my generation. Completely normal part of school life these days. Even at my kids high schools it’s used regularly at assemblies etc. It’s never going to go away like some of here imagine. Just a part of the younger generations life now.
  
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  December 28, 2020 12:49pm
  - Inandout
    
    bruce, do they get top marks in the core subjects?
    
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    December 28, 2020 4:41pm
    - bruceavon
      
      My kids? Yeah. Cant complain. My sons is year 10 this year and doing year 12 Cambridge maths. Both pretty bright. He is pretty good at Latin and wants to do classics ( not sure what for though). He was in the kapa haka group for two years. Cant see how learning the Maori stuff impedes them. I was an old parent, my wife is 15 years younger than me, so I have been involved in the school throughout. The Maori stuff is just part of school life, its just normal. I don’t know if the older contributors here understand it.
      
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      December 28, 2020 7:15pm
  - greybeard
    
    But it is not a real language !
    Most of it now is pidgin english.
    e.g. Meri Kirihimete ( supposedly Merry Christmas ).
    Apart from the fact that maori never had Christmas I also doubt they had a word for “merry”.
    If you are such a fan of the maori language could you please furnish us with a maori translation of “double overhead camshafts in conjunction with a flatplane crankshaft and supercharging”.
    Or “rubber-based earthquake skyscraper foundation strengthening”.
    
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    December 28, 2020 4:53pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      H.M. Ngata English-Maori Dictionary gives harakoa for merry.
      
      H.W.Williams A dictionary of the Maori language treats harakoa as a noun and translates it as dancing and other amusements.
      
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      December 28, 2020 5:09pm
- Hollyfield
  
  I had two years of Maori lessons at intermediate school, by a European woman whose husband was Maori. The school employed her to give a weekly lesson to each class.
  End result: I can count to 4 fluently, up to 10 if I really concentrate (but can’t be sure I’m correct with all of them), some colours, and a few words like kai, moana, maunga, tapu.
  What did those 2 years of lessons really achieve?
  I think the same thing will happen with compulsory lessons – they won’t be done well, and students won’t learn enough for the lessons to be meaningful, so it will just be feel good tokenism. Which about sums up everything this Government does.
  
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  December 28, 2020 3:05pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/mKnvZVd8uC8/

Stop Chinese Colonialism.

The ever lovin – ever lyin left don’t say much about
Chinese imperialism. I guess some imperialism is
more equal than the rest.
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December 28, 2020 11:02am
- oldfella
  
  curry4me, just remember: “China is Asshole”.
  
  6 4
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  December 28, 2020 12:53pm
  - curry4me
    
    oldfella: Yes, that’s a sentiment frequently felt in Hong Kong.
    
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    December 28, 2020 7:04pm
curry4me

https://nypost.com/article/how-mark-robinson-became-north-carolina-lieutenant-governor/

How Mark Robinson Beat Bloomberg’s Billions to Win NC’s Second-Highest Office.

As one of ten children growing up in extreme poverty in Greensboro, NC, Mark Robinson has defied a lot of odds in life: an alcoholic and abusive father, foster-care stints, and an overwhelmed single mother.
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December 28, 2020 11:02am
NoCash

I was at a mall yesterday and saw a couple having afternoon tea at the Muffin Break. The lady had a full face veil on and had to drink under the cover of the veil. The guy had a stern look sitting next to her. I was a bit angry inside as how could a culture / religion allow such a mistreatment of females. That’s a ~~blind spot~~ visually obscured spot of gender inequality in NZ for all to see.
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December 28, 2020 11:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you think of asking this woman why she wears a veil?
  
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  December 28, 2020 1:19pm
- Ruahine
  
  NoCash. When I see it I wonder the very same thing. Yet our media is full of big mouths on all sorts of perceived injustices some real or imagined or claimed historical yet this special lot get a free pass for what is nothing more than medieval behaviour.
  The hint of something coming out of Glorivale though and it is headlines for days.
  
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  December 28, 2020 1:35pm
- rouppe
  
  Indeed. I also sat next to a couple of Muslim women yesterday. Wearing hijab, just scarves.
  
  No one glowered at me for sitting so close to them.
  Their children came by, casual as…
  
  My neighbour is Muslim. Does keep very much to himself and seems to only have Muslim visitors but half of the time his wife wanders around without a head covering.
  
  So there is movement in integration.
  
  The full covering veil families does make one wonder why they came to a liberal country though
  
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  December 28, 2020 2:09pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Probably come from a country that promotes Wahabism and gives copius ammounts of cash to countries that supports its teachings.
    That would be my guess after spending a lreasonable time in the middle east.
    
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    December 28, 2020 4:15pm
  - IC5000
    
    > but half of the time his wife wanders around without a head covering.
    
    I see a few of families wandering around with the mother in a hijab while the daughters are in tight activeware. I’m not even sure if there is any religious significant to hijabs for a lot of people and it could be some kind of fashion statement
    
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    December 28, 2020 4:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Needs a straw – oh wait
  
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  December 28, 2020 2:59pm
Vallager

I see our leaders are no going to test people coming to NZ at point of departure.
Didn’t they ridicule this idea when it was suggested, some time ago, by the opposition?
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December 28, 2020 11:55am
- lifesgood
  
  Still think it’s pointless. They should be tested BEFORE boarding a plane to come here. Bit late when they’ve already arrived. Taxpaying suckers have to foot the bill.
  
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  December 28, 2020 2:42pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “test people coming to NZ at point of departure”
    Not that hard to comprehend
    
    9 6
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    December 28, 2020 3:01pm
    - MCos
      
      I suppose that depends on how you interpret the typo ‘no going’. Is it ‘not’ or ‘now’?
      
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      December 28, 2020 4:05pm
    - lifesgood
      
      That is not how it was worded on RNZ news. They stated they would be tested on day 0 again on day 3 etc.
      
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      December 28, 2020 4:26pm
Fletch

A girl’s life is ruined because, when she was 15 she got her driving license and jokingly sang some lyrics of a rap song to her friend in a private Snapchat video, “I can drive, n****!” A guy who saw it held onto it for a year before using it to ruin her life and get her booted from college.

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/black-teenager-posts-video-of-white-college-student-singing-rap-lyrics-prompting-a-digital-lynch-mob-to-ruin-her-life/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/26/us/mimi-groves-jimmy-galligan-racial-slurs.html

This shit really pisses me off. Self-righteous assholes who take offence at something someone says and and use the Twitter mob to destroy their lives. If that isn’t discrimination, I don’t know what is.
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December 28, 2020 11:59am
- oldfella
  
  Fletch, shouldn’t this woke generation be cancelling the rap artists who not only throw around the word ‘nigger’, but treat women as whores?
  But then most of the rappers are black, so maybe not…
  
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  December 28, 2020 12:57pm
  - IC5000
    
    It’s all about context. Its a subtly that many don’t grasp here. If you want to go around calling people ‘niggers’ it’s a free country with free speech but that never meant not paying for the consequences at 3am Friday on Queen St with the bro’s.
    
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    December 28, 2020 4:25pm
I remember when

Sir Cullen’s Sidekick.
I’ll beat Cindy’s got a smile on her face – glad she isn’t Prime Minister of one of the European Countries.
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December 28, 2020 12:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Well if she gets railroaded from the UN, she could set her sights on President of the EU, and force the UK to comply
  
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  December 28, 2020 3:03pm
  - MCos
    
    President of the EU?
    
    Check your atlas, cobber.
    
    6 2
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    December 28, 2020 4:08pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I forgot the // tag for the special people
      
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      December 29, 2020 8:16am
oldfella

Having trouble with Zoom calls finding a suitable backdrop? What about this for an idea?
++
Books by the Foot, a service run by the Maryland-based bookseller Wonder Book, has become a go-to curator of Washington bookshelves, offering precisely what its name sounds like it does.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/26/books-by-the-foot-washington-dc-covid-books-440347
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December 28, 2020 12:08pm
- Inandout
  
  oldfella, that guy with the books should see a skin doctor who will work wonders with ‘grapes’.
  
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  December 28, 2020 5:57pm
Master Mariner

Hymm, Wonder what NZ Governments stand regarding Vaccines and Liabilties etc.

Also in addition is liabilities and compensation ( Think of White Island).
(too be confirmed but likely), If NZ citizen died then pay out be peanuts but if American it will likely be in 10’s Millions to families etc.
Here in lies the problem with NZ and ACC system. How can a death in NZ ( White Island) Pay 10’s Millions to US Citizen and maybe a million to Oz citizen and leave a NZ citizen with bugger all.
Note, I’m unsure exactly what the compensation is ? But likely scenario.
Hence the reason the Cruise ship company is trying to get it tested in Australia.

Welcome to Maritime Law.

Which then leaves us with Vaccines, Who is responsible for any adverse side effects of Vaccine roll out in NZ.?

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3115258/if-covid-19-vaccines-cause-side-effects-who-pays-makers-or

There also seems a lot of debate Globally regarding effectiveness of various vaccines especially with Pfeizers.
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December 28, 2020 12:14pm
- Batman
  
  The reason it’s taking longer here is because medsafe is doing a full test process on them, as I understand it.
  
  The ministry and the government would be responsible if it was found they didn’t test appropriately. Otherwise it would be the manufacturer.
  
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  December 28, 2020 12:19pm
  - fernglas
    
    Either way, it’s ACC that picks up the tab.
    
    6 1
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    December 28, 2020 12:25pm
  - oldfella
    
    Batman, if there are problems, you can bet our Glorious Leader will not shoulder any of the blame.
    Not her style.
    
    15 3
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    December 28, 2020 12:59pm
    - artemisia
      
      It’s not up to Ms Ardern. Her performance is being carefully managed and scripted as Labour’s hugely valuable asset.
      
      15 3
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      December 28, 2020 4:17pm
    - IC5000
      
      > Batman, if there are problems, you can bet our Glorious Leader will not shoulder any of the blame
      
      Well it has worked for certain degenerate loser president so it’s worth a punt
      
      4 15
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      December 28, 2020 4:29pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    “The ministry and the government” have zero financial and legal accountability. Most anyone would get would be a sickness benefit.
    
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    December 28, 2020 1:53pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Fully appreciate that Batman,
    
    Its a really ” dammed if you do and dammed if you dont” descision.
    But in all honesty they can only take the advice / responsibility from the manufacturers surely.
    Im pretty sure there will be no ” Madame Currie” amongst that lot.
    No one is testing “appropriately” hence the question.
    All maufacturers have got “waivers/ disclaimers ” depending on country ( as per article), Has NZ?
    
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    December 28, 2020 3:26pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    “Full test process”. BM: the way you are employing those words proves you do not know what they mean in that context. Speaking as someone who was a vaccine volunteer as a student for the now-routine Hep B vaccine.
    
    7 2
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    December 28, 2020 4:00pm
  - MCos
    
    For a start it would need to be proved the vaccine was the cause.
    Recently several people died after their epilepsy medication was changed. I’m sure there will be some discussion if that was the cause or not.
    
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    December 28, 2020 4:16pm
I remember when

The state of the NZ Tourism market.
Tourism Holdings has flagged a bigger loss than expected as local demand fails to fill gap left by international tourists.
Their profit for 2019 was 29.8 million.
In 2020 that dropped to $20 million.
Analysts suggest a net loss of $12.8 million in 2021.
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December 28, 2020 12:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Look what happened while the media diverted your attention to Nashville ….
https://www.facebook.com/groups/545491349667859/permalink/723244008559258/
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December 28, 2020 1:29pm
kowtow

I see our Media Pardy making noises around the gubmint making noises around extra testing of UK / US returnees as these places are “hotspots”.

But yesterday the Media pardy were reporting that half of the returnees tested in MIQ who were positive were from India ……….
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December 28, 2020 2:07pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Yeah seen that and not surprised.
  
  Before travelling to work I have to Have a PCR negative result 48 hrs prior to flying from NZ.
  
  Why havent we done it here is beyond belief. Especially with MIQ leakages etc.
  
  Example, I flew in Singapore ( transit), next day flew to Jakarta ( hotspot) then flew to batam, Another hotspot and currently steaming to Myanmar ( super hotspot) now.
  However tested and checked every stage by Military, police and Health officals except Singapore ( pre PCR test at home) and stayed in transit hotel. Secure borders. Everything has been water tight.
  As per first time back in July MIQ, The only chance of catching COVID was there at MIQ hotel.
  If they are going to lock us up, Borders flights etc then they need to get there act together and test returnees from high risk countires. Im for one will be one of those.
  Also reading report someone flew with known symtoms.
  I mean seriously ? Is this the High quality Immigrants we are allowing into NZ?
  
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  December 28, 2020 3:39pm
RJ

Something isn’t sitting right with me about this Nashville explosion. The explosion seems to come from the opposite side of the road to where a white truck is. Maybe it is just the way the explosion blows out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlyQBL4E5Yg&feature=emb_logo
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December 28, 2020 3:25pm
- RJ
  
  Hmmm, photo from the security camera, white vent by the window
  
  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13583793/nashville-bomb-anthony-quinn-warner-police-warned-rv/
  
  Photo of the suspects RV, black vent near the window
  
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/person-interest-connected-nashville-rv-explosion-identified
  
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  December 28, 2020 5:49pm
  - Alan1930
    
    Woohoo. A new conspiracy theory for you to post about.
    
    Congratulations.
    
    2 4
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    December 28, 2020 7:22pm
- marcw
  
  Great to see that ‘Hooters’ wasn’t too severely damaged. (God works in mysterious ways). Still, it will be closed for a while in the lockdown area.
  
  Online Notice:
  Hooters
  Nashville Downtown
  Church St / 2nd Ave N
  Temporarily Closed
  184 2nd Ave. N. Nashville, TN 37201
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another very important piece published/broadcast on a Holiday afternoon…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433707/nixon-three-waters-reforms-must-be-led-by-locals
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December 28, 2020 3:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Starts in Wellington, and the cancer infests the whole of NZ
  
  12 5
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  December 28, 2020 3:54pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    And it metastasizes rapidly.
    
    11 3
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    December 28, 2020 3:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Still beating that media conspiracy drum?
  
  3 17
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  December 28, 2020 5:08pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh, just come out and call me a “conspiracist”..
    you know you love to throw labels at me.
    
    8 3
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    December 28, 2020 6:16pm
    - Mike
      
      If the cap fits. You keep implying media cover-ups.
      
      2 11
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      December 28, 2020 6:24pm
    - RJ
      
      You just can’t help being a dick can you, your trolling is as bad as your friend. Just ignore him Maggy
      
      8 6
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      December 28, 2020 7:06pm
      - Mike
        
        It’s hardly ‘trolling’ to mention how Maggy Wassilief sees dark shadows behind every routine media report.
        
        3 10
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        December 28, 2020 7:22pm
      - RJ
        
        [Please let’s not escalate to OTT name calling RJ. The posts he makes say enough, and you can downtick away to show your feelings. Thanks, Mod.]
        
        1 2
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        December 28, 2020 8:12pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep,
        I decided to ignore him… but he still gets in another shot at me.
        
        Thanks Mods.
        
        You would think after 6 years of this crap from Griff, Stephieboy and MMA, that Kiwiblog could cease being a platform where trolls post smears and lies against identifiable individuals.
        
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        December 28, 2020 8:37pm
- niggly
  
  Thanks for posting that Maggy, IIRC you’ve mentioned the (Three Waters) water reforms on here before (and for us all to better understand it, as it will be far-reaching) and this article gives an interesting take on the issue from a regional perspective.
  
  I didn’t know about the alternative Randerson report into the resource management system (although a quick google search brings up many articles, it seems to be driven by MBIE, which by default is the Govt …. but considering it received zilch media coverage in the election debates, eg when National talked about RMA reforms, I don’t even recall the PM Ardern talking about it (let alone being asked about it by the MSM), but now we appear to have a solution to be presented to the Labour Govt to enact … where is the transparency)?
  
  But back to the water reforms, it looks like the Govt is handing out tax-payer funding to local councils to enact water changes (OTOH it can be argued that at least the govt is stumping up the cash for local councils to make changes) …. by as Councillor Tina Nixon astutely articulates:
  
  “However, my desire is for our communities to be the architects of reform – not some shiny bum in Wellington.
  
  She said she feared that local people needed to “take control of what our future should look like”, otherwise “we will suffer at the hands of overpaid consultants and central government policy wonks”.
  
  “Otherwise that change won’t be designed by us, the people of a distinctly rural province, but by a team of overpaid, smashed-avocado-chomping consultants who live in Thorndon.”
  
  Well said that woman!
  
  And can we trust Labour? Of course not! It’ll become an exercise of more bureaucrats and buildings built for them to dictate to the councils what to do … meanwhile expect job losses at councils “sharp end” (actual people that do things eg technical and scientific) to make way for more 6-figure paid executives, policy wonks (think JAG types by the dozens) and greenie type civil servants enacting policies that will make farming harder????
  
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  December 29, 2020 2:29pm
Engelbert Humperdink

Is any honest NZ reporter ever going to write an in-depth feature and objective comparison on crime involving guns before and after the mass-virtue-signalling Ardern/Nash/Cahill Axis of Enforced-Firearms-Theft from licensed owners?

Oh, who am I kidding. There are no honest reporters left.
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December 28, 2020 3:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Seems like Trump signed the Bill – and yes it is not US$600 it is US$2000. Sorry no link. Don’t be so fucking lazy and search yourself.
Google will hold this back of course
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December 28, 2020 4:22pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner reckons he actually caved on the COVID bill?
  
  Mixed messages at the moment SteveO
  
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  December 28, 2020 4:33pm
- Alan1930
  
  Of course he did. He’d have lost too much support if he hadn’t. He was just holding out to throw his weight around. His ego comes before the needs of his country.
  
  At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s removed before the 20th Jan on the grounds of diminished mental capacity.
  
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  December 28, 2020 5:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It is $600 – as his own party wanted. He is trying to have it both ways, but folded as usual under the pressure.
  
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  December 28, 2020 5:10pm
- Stu2
  
  No, it is $600 for now
  
  Trump has secured a commitment for the Senate to consider legislation to increase stimulus checks from $600 to $2,000.
  
  Probably face saving seeing the senate rejected the $2000 level a few days ago
  
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  December 28, 2020 5:14pm
- Fletch
  
  Yes, he signed it, but he is going to use the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 to try and cut wasteful spending from it.
  
  Trump said that he would sign the bill along with making many rescissions under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA), which allows the president to “impound funds when he transmits a ‘special message’ in accordance with the ICA,” the U.S. Government Accountability Office explains. “Upon sending the message, amounts proposed for rescission (that is, for permanent cancellation) may be impounded for a period of 45 days of continuous congressional session.”
  
  “I will sign the Omnibus and Covid package with a strong message that makes clear to Congress that wasteful items need to be removed. I will send back to Congress a redlined version, item by item, accompanied by the formal rescission request to Congress insisting that those funds be removed from the bill,” Trump said. “I am signing this bill to restore unemployment benefits, stop evictions, provide rental assistance, add money for PPP, return our airline workers back to work, add substantially more money for vaccine distribution, and much more.”
  
  https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-to-use-impoundment-control-act-to-gut-wasteful-spending-boost-stimulus-checks
  
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  December 28, 2020 5:38pm
  - curry4me
    
    Fletch: Ah, just what one epects from President Trump. Releif without the pork. I hope he’s successful.
    
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    December 28, 2020 7:15pm
    - Mike
      
      Um, he already folded like the weakling he is.
      
      3 7
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      December 28, 2020 7:51pm
- MCos
  
  If it was NZ and a Labour Government gave money away like that most people on this forum would be apoplectic, even if it was only ten bob.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:18pm
Engelbert Humperdink

Maggie: One man cannot change the course of history. When every other man’s hand in the structures of power is against him.

Unless of course, that one man eats an undercooked bat sold by an underpaid and venal staffer of the Wuhan Virus Lab to the nearby Wuhan Food Market.

Then, one man can change the world.

Oh yes.
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December 28, 2020 4:43pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Sooo true Engel…… in fact I’ll be using that tomorrow when we catch up with our neighbors at Tindalls. They’re a couple of gay expat yanks from LA who think they know everything.
  My partner reckons I always seem to trigger them for some unknown reason.
  
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  December 28, 2020 6:23pm
  - Mike
    
    Perhaps they just don’t get your ‘jokes’.
    
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    December 28, 2020 6:29pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      One thing I’d say for the boyz Mike – they do have an amazing sense of humor.
      Unlike some we know 😀
      
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      December 28, 2020 7:22pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Maybe its just because you are an opinionated good looking woman, Maggie. That usually triggers gay guys. 😉
    
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    December 28, 2020 7:48pm
RJ

Truly interesting interview with Vera Sharav

Nazism, COVID-19 and the destruction of modern medicine: An interview with Vera Sharav

part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_EDV_7s7Dc

part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRW-Ld9J3VY
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December 28, 2020 4:59pm
Monique Watson

Here’s a link. Fucking finally realised how it might look in a stronghold State. Too little too late the way Republicansdon’tcare was trending on Twitter last night.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/531776-loeffler-perdue-praise-trump-for-signing-covid-19-relief-legislation-after?amp
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December 28, 2020 5:29pm
- Wimpston peeders
  
  Are you batmans partner? You both have the sane degree of hardon for trumpy
  
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  December 28, 2020 6:46pm
Monique Watson

And now Trump can move into other matter like selling arms to the Saudis as per the 500 million he signed off on on Wednesday. That way his own personal allies can get about bombing a war torn country further into the ground meanwhile nothing meaningful gets done about negotiating passage for UN inspectors onto an oil tanker about to ladle 1 million barrels of oil into the Red Sea or four x the Valdez spill, (FSOSafer)
Cheers folks. Bring on Jan 20th.
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December 28, 2020 6:15pm
- marcw
  
  “Between 2011 and 2015, Saudi Arabia was the destination for nearly 10% of all U.S. arms exports. In 2016, the Obama administration proposed a series of arms deals worth $115 billion, including warships, helicopters, and maintenance. However, some parts of this deal were blocked by the administration in December 2016 after Saudi Arabia’s airstrikes and targeting procedures in neighboring Yemen drew controversy.”
  
  There is more than Trump, Trump, Trump to the question of arms sales in the Middle East. Some of the US justification is that if they don’t supply them, and thereby maintain some oversight, then they will just source them from Russia and China. Your perpetuation of the demonisation of the Trump regime is quite tiresome TBH.
  
  The above quote is from Wiki, which gives a more balanced overview in describing what was happening in the 2017 proposed arms deal with Saudi.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_arms_deal
  
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  December 28, 2020 6:46pm
Maggie Pie

I see that guy ‘Pete Bethune’ leading the 1Ewes bulliten tonite.
Got bitten by one of the most deadly snakes in the world apparently. They were saying a single drop of the fur-de-lance’s venom is enough to kill 32 men!
Poor ol Pete had to walk and crawl thru dense jungle, avoiding savages with blowpipes just to reach hospital. There he was sitting up in bed with a swollen leg chatting to TV reporters and downing a Fanta.

My partner reckons he smells a rat……just saying.
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December 28, 2020 6:40pm
- RJ
  
  He got bitten by Winston?
  
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  December 28, 2020 6:44pm
- Mike
  
  Radio report was that an orthopedic surgeon was standing by.
  
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  December 28, 2020 6:55pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Maybe he wants to buy his boots?
    
    5 2
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    December 28, 2020 7:25pm
- curry4me
  
  Maggie Pie: 1Ewes. Stealing that. Please don’t call the cops on me. -;)
  
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  December 28, 2020 7:18pm
- Alan1930
  
  Any reports on how the snake is doing? (The one without the arms and legs I mean).
  
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  December 28, 2020 7:26pm
- Don Beckett
  
  I’d say he got bitten by a Fer-de-lance’ alright – a very venemous and dangerous snake.
  However, if that had been a Queensland Taipan, he would have died in less than 10 minutes, seeing that spot on his leg where he was bitten.
  
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  December 28, 2020 7:53pm
- MCos
  
  Less than 10% of fur-du-lance bites are fatal.
  
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  December 28, 2020 8:07pm
Fletch

Trump –

“I am signing this bill to restore unemployment benefits, stop evictions, provide rental assistance, add money for PPP, return our airline workers back to work, add substantially more money for vaccine distribution, and much more.

On Monday the House will vote to increase payments to individuals from $600 to $2,000. Therefore, a family of four would receive $5,200. Additionally, Congress has promised that Section 230, which so unfairly benefits Big Tech at the expense of the American people, will be reviewed and either be terminated or substantially reformed.

Likewise, the House and Senate have agreed to focus strongly on the very substantial voter fraud which took place in the November 3 Presidential election.

The Senate will start the process for a vote that increases checks to $2,000, repeals Section 230, and starts an investigation into voter fraud.“
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December 28, 2020 9:36pm
- RJ
  
  Nancy replies
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWDUFuNtSkI&feature=emb_logo
  
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  December 28, 2020 9:45pm
  - Fletch
    
    Nancy may lose the speaker-ship..
    
    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/12/27/heres-how-a-republican-could-end-up-speaker-of-the-house-instead-of-nancy-pelosi-n1287467
    
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    December 28, 2020 10:53pm

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