General Debate 29 December 2020

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JibberJabber

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/12/28/the-year-big-tech-became-the-ministry-of-truth/

In 2020, social-media firms suppressed protest, scientific debate and corruption allegations against the powerful.

In April, Facebook began removing pages and posts which were used to organise protests against the lockdown. It had actually reached out to various US state governments to ascertain which posts to take down. Any advertised gathering which did not ‘follow the health parameters established by the government’ and was ‘therefore unlawful’ was liable for removal. In essence, this was state censorship outsourced to the private sector.
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December 29, 2020 8:02am
- Alan1930
  
  Good to see them acting responsibly. That’s the consequence for people who choose to use the private platform they provide (for free) irresponsibly.
  
  Actions have consequences both good and bad. If people choose to cause harm to others by virtue of their wilful disinformation then it’s a good thing that benevolent overlords shut them down to prevent future harm.
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:33am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Alan: Do you really believe they provide the platform “for FREE”. Watch the Netflix doco “The Social Dilemma”, that will change your mind (I hope). One man (persons) disinformation is anothers information, which is surely the point?
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:15am
    - Steve Todd
      
      OoL, rather than Alan, or any of us, watching the said documentary, why don’t you just give us a quick precis of it, briefly setting out why Facebook, etc., are not free?
      
      In this regard, see my reply to Engelbert Humperdink, below (https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/12/general_debate_29_december_2020.html/comment-page-1#comment-2865547).
      
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      December 29, 2020 2:26pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        ST: I think you’ll benefit from watching Social Dilemma. I wouldn’t want to précis it in case I put my own spin on it.
        
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        December 29, 2020 10:35pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thanks, OoL.
        
        A general comment. A little more information, to help us decide whether or not it is worth our while to watch / read material that others recommend, would be helpful.
        
        On this occasion, you did better than a lot of commenters, who just post links without any information as to what it contains. Mostly, I think to myself, “No thanks. I have better things to do with my time.”
        
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        December 30, 2020 9:33am
Justitia

“Environmentalism today is the dominant secular religion of the educated, upper middle class elite in most developed and many developing nations. It provides a new story about our collective and individual purpose. It designates good guys and bad guys, heroes and villains. And it does so in the language of science, which provides it with legitimacy”. (Michael Shellenberger, “Apocalypse Never”).

Climate catastrophism is an extremist sect of this religion and echoes the apocalyptic tradition of Judaeo-Christian religion. Our problems stem from our alienation from Nature of which industrialization is the principal cause. CO2, as a by-product of industrialization, is therefore a demon. It is no accident that the Paris Agreement refers to pre-industrial temperature levels as our lost Eden, even though it fails to define those levels.
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December 29, 2020 8:17am
- Andrei
  
  People stopped believing in Climate Change a while ago so they came up with the Covid-19 pan~~dem~~ic to scare people into compliance.
  
  It has worked out really well too – they are destroying small independant businesses, increased the power of Big Tech and Globalists while deposing the one politician who was standing up to them.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:09am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Hence the reason I call them Branch Covidians, those who truly believe in the virus and its abilities are the most fanatical people I have ever met.
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:39am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Global Cooling (last century), Global Warming (late last century into this century), Global Climate Change, Bird Flu, Covid-19, secret funding of wars to sell munitions, re-writing of history together with racial division amplified by paid agitators, etc, etc, are all just chapters in a never ending book designed to keep the masses in a state of fear and under control.
    
    We can see across all walks of life, good people who have good honest intentions, and bad people who do not posses good honest intentions. We see this every day in the news with conflict, crime, fraud, corruption at the highest levels, and acts of violence, carried out under the lie of “in the name of good”. e.g. BLM supporters trashing and smashing cars, businesses. These are simply thugs, and in many cases paid thugs.
    
    We have hijacked US elections, but that doesn’t matter to the left, so long as it is Trump that is deceived.
    
    Down-tickers (there will be some) will have you believe that once people reach the stage of being publicly noticed, that all such people have a switch flicked in their head to “eternally good”, grow a halo, and always act in the best interests of mankind.
    
    Down-tickers and naysayers are simply confirming their lack of awareness of the current state of mankind and the world we live in. And in doing so are allowing that negative situation to persist.
    
    I on the other hand, believe that positive change is possible once the public no longer buy into the bullshit that the MSM keeps repeating like Pavlov’s Dog, and learn to think for themselves.
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:11am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Opening words from the 2006 review of “V for Vendetta”
    
    “It is the year 2020. A virus runs wild in the world, most Americans are dead…”
    
    https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/v-for-vendetta-2006
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:19am
  - IC5000
    
    > People stopped believing in Climate Change a while ago
    
    Nope, still alive and kicking.
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:08pm
buzzler

What has become of us? Was watching the doco on Netflix about the Yorkshire Ripper. It was a great doco, well presented. It took place between 1975 and 1981 in the north of England. The bit that had me in stitches were the warnings at the start of the doco. They warned that their were scenes of nudity, and SMOKING! I thought, are you serious, they have to put a warning on in case some people are triggered by seeing people smoking in pubs in 1970’s England?
Interestingly though, there were no warnings that there were scenes of violence, as the Ripper murdered 13 women during his reign of terror.
Good doco though.
Rant over.
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December 29, 2020 8:23am
- MCos
  
  I watched that doco.
  I don’t think there were any scenes of violence related to the the murders.
  The bit that was hard to take was the attitude of the West Yorkshire Police top brass announcing when they announced they’d made an arrest.
  There they were beaming away at the reporters after years of abject failure to protect the local women by continually barking up the wrong trees.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:10am
  - buzzler
    
    Agree MCos. The Ripper was only caught by good luck, not skill. The whole investigation was a huge cock up. A lesson in how not to investigate a crime.
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:54am
    - Andrei
      
      No the Ripper was caught by a contientious and diligent beat bobby following his instincts and finding the evidence that identified and nailed him
      
      That is not luck
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:25am
    - sooty
      
      What do yo mean, ours have been following it word for word!
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:27am
    - virtualmark
      
      If you’re interested in the Yorkshire Ripper story then I strongly recommend the book “Deliver us from evil” by David Yallop.
      
      He set out a detailed prediction of the killer at least two years before Sutcliffe was eventually arrested (during which time Sutcliffe killed at least once more).
      
      You can’t help but read that book and think the Police were incompetent.
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:34am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Bain anyone?
        
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        December 29, 2020 1:00pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Paulus Gnome: Did you mean Arthur Allan Thomas?
        
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        December 29, 2020 2:37pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        He also new the Identity of Carlos the Jackel ” as well. Clever investigative author.
        
        Wondering what he’d make of Climate change etc?
        
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        December 29, 2020 6:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

We are being monitored…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-mosque-shootings-police-launch-ai-unit-to-monitor-kiwis-social-media/FPUXWU5V2W6EUCY3CEIXSXPLC4/
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December 29, 2020 8:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Good thing too. People would be rightly outraged if serious criminal offending occurred which could have been prevented had police used information freely available online.
  
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  December 29, 2020 8:30am
  - pdm
    
    `People would be rightly outraged if serious criminal offending occurred ………………………’
    
    Not Angry Andy or Kelvin though.
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Turn the tables: it’s only thought. This can change from season to season–who’s next?
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:10am
  - cmm
    
    I’d be offended if two drunk people commit firearms offenses including threatening people and the cops do nothing
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/drunk-men-allegedly-waved-guns-at-beachgoers-on-dunedins-tomahawk-beach/A2VN5YI77BLBL3ZKRNMXXSFAFE/
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:08am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The article is pay-walled.
  
  We better be careful what we post here – huh?
  
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  December 29, 2020 8:38am
  - kowtow
    
    Yes , Big Brother really is watching you. The headline could have easily been “1984”.
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:07am
  - Liberty
    
    “The article is pay-walled. ”
    Technology soon fixes that 🙂
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:38am
- tf78
  
  Maggy, it seems the fun police are finally coming for us – thank you Cindy and Andrew.
  
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  December 29, 2020 8:54am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Why hasn’t Andy been charged with promoting the authorisation of the Pike River open cast mine?
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:11am
    - sooty
      
      Because it’s different when the left do it!
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:29am
    - marcw
      
      Because it wasn’t Open Cast – it was an underground mine.
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:30am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It should have been to meet international standards for a known gas producing fault seam. That defect was the cause of the ultimate disaster.
        
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        December 29, 2020 2:22pm
    - Alan1930
      
      The Brunner seam is far too deep for it to be accessed from the top.
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:37am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Not the pike river. Should of been opencast from the “get go”.
        
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        December 29, 2020 11:41am
- Happychappy
  
  Well people should have known as soon as Andrew Little got the folders he desired, he was in charge when the Unions lost their largest membership drop in history , had three attempts to win the seat of New Plymouth and again come up short , was gifted the Leadership of the Labour Party and became the a Leader that couldn’t get more than 25% support from NZer’s so relinquished the Leadership to Jacinda Ardern who with the support of Winston Peters became Prime Minister.
  So this will probably be just like his previous Union adventures lie and decieve the public until you have the support to legislate it into law.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:07am
  - yossarian
    
    If there was ever a example of the pitfalls of MMP, Andrew Little is it.
    
    I still believe that only constitute [Constituent – mod.] winning MPs are able to become ministers, so at least we have some say on our govt
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:22am
    - Steve Todd
      
      So, you would have been perfectly happy for prime minister Bill English and finance minister Steven Joyce to have been sitting on the back benches in 2017?
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:22am
      - rockape
        
        They would have run in safe seats.
        
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        December 29, 2020 1:44pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Binding referendums would also allow the public to keep politicians under control. Right now, politicians can promise anything and not deliver after being elected. With binding referendums we can force them to behave.
      
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      December 29, 2020 1:30pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        With binding referendums we can force them to behave.
        
        Yep. As they have done in Switzerland (formally) since 1848.
        
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        December 29, 2020 2:44pm
      - MFD
        
        “In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly.”
        
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        December 29, 2020 3:04pm
      - sooty
        
        [Deleted. https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy Generalisations
        
        Mod.]
        
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        December 29, 2020 5:19pm
- marcw
  
  I had to laugh at this line from the article:
  
  “Security expert Paul Buchanan, a former intelligence analyst for US security agencies, says it took “the wake-up call of March 15” to make police “realise that a lot of unpleasant people are communicating out in the open”.
  
  As Kiwiblog is classed as social media, shouldn’t a few posters here be fortifying their basements?
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:23am
- rouppe
  
  The thing to note is that the only thing that can be monitored is the public posts.
  
  If you have your audience restricted to friends then this crawler cannot see what you write as it uses the public Facebook API which observes the privacy settings you apply.
  
  I think. 😉
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:29am
  - Pharmachick
    
    I have a bridge… going cheap…
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:42am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Facebook preserves privacy??
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:12am
  - JackRabbit
    
    You are right about crawlers…but
    Crawlers and sanctioned back-doors are two very different things.
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:35am
  - Alan1930
    
    Most people give out ample evidence of where their head is at for machine learning algorithms to build an accurate profile on them.
    
    The postings to Kiwiblog are a perfect example. And I hope the posters here aren’t naive enough to think that they’re actually posting anonymously.
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:43am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Nope, no illusions. Plus, personally; I’ve [literally] doxxed myself on here a bunch of times. But then as I’m not exactly an extremist, just a boring scientist; there’s little to worry about (<– heh should there be a capital "L" there?).
      
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      December 29, 2020 11:12am
    - JackRabbit
      
      The only way you cannot be tracked on KB is to have no internet connection, but then you couldn’t post on or even read KB.
      
      Microsoft 10 Immutable Laws of Security (2000)
      
      Law #9: Absolute anonymity isn’t practical, in real life or on the Web.
      
      I won’t publish the text of that law here, but it ends in:
      
      “…But if it’s complete and total anonymity you
      want, better start looking for that cave.”
      
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      December 29, 2020 11:27am
  - infused
    
    Incorrect. All socials have law enforcement apis and back doors.
    Your private group isn’t private
    
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    December 30, 2020 6:07am
- MCos
  
  According to the article they are only looking at publicly available stuff.
  So they say.
  There are plenty of countries where the government has given themselves the power to look at privately available information.
  However I think what they do is look to see who has been communicating with who rather than the actual content.
  
  In Thailand Facebook is used to organize street demonstrations. The police, of course, are also forewarned so they organize their bearded wire accordingly. At the last minute the demo is then relocated somewhere else.
  Years ago the the police had the bright idea of banning Facebook. The problem was that 99.99% of users just swap recipes, tell ghost stories & send selfies. The ensuring outrage nearly toppled the government and it was back on in 40min.
  The PM came on the telly and muttered weakly about maintenance.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:40am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Be interesting to know what they are going to think is worth monitoring on Facebook and Instagram, there is very little left to read except leftist crap once Mark Zuckerbergs censors have had a major pull through on anything not agreeable to him, the new world censor.
  I would much more afraid of Instagram and Facebook.
  This is just becoming a really scary scenario, JP eloquently gives an accurate commentary on Instagrams terms and conditions.
  918,000 views in a few days,79,000 likes,705
  dislikes sitting on less than 1%, will mark censor him, me thinks JP has him by the short and curlies, to many likes to banish him.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhSX7IzHkrE
  
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  December 29, 2020 4:20pm
kevn

@Maggy… Anyone surprised at this news ?
Is KB classed as ‘social media’ ?
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December 29, 2020 8:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Blogs are social media.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:05am
- JackRabbit
  
  Anything on the internet is social media, as is any accessible data.
  
  Facebook, LinkedIn, Office 365, Google, Gmail, Windows, Microsoft Office, etc are all considered accessible data because of the EULAs (End User Licence Agreement) you agreed to by using those services. And all entities that have access to that data.
  
  The exponential rise of Facebook was only due Facebook’s practice from day one, of opening and downloading all your email contacts, and scanning all your email for further email recipients and senders, and building their database from that.
  
  They were then able to suggest “possible contacts”. i.e. people that were in your contacts/sent/received list, or in the contacts/sent/received list of anyone in your contacts/sent/received list.
  
  People though thought that Facebook was really really clever at predicting possible links, and fooled even the brightest of Facebook users. It wasn’t predicting anything, it was simply using stolen data. Your stolen data.
  
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  December 29, 2020 11:43am
Hollyfield

I can’t work out if this is satire or just stupidity. https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/123790871/for-dawkins-sake-leave-christmas-to-the-christians (Actually, since it’s Stuff it’s likely to be only one of the two.)

She is saying that anyone who is not Christian should not celebrate Christmas, as it is cultural appropriation. “Stop putting a star on top of the Christmas tree, get rid of any evidence of angels, and quit singing religious carols. They don’t belong to you and your faith, or lack of it, so stop appropriating them.” I could accept that as a viewpoint, but then bizarrely she goes on to suggest we get rid of Christmas holidays and instead have a week long mid-winter festival of Matariki, with the exchange of gifts, a family feast etc, because it makes so much more sense to do these things in winter than in summer. And it would ease “some of the financial burden from the Christmas/New Year holidays by splitting the bill in two, with money saved for the summer holidays, and money put aside for the mid-year Matariki exchange of gifts”.

If it is cultural appropriation for non-Christians to celebrate Christmas, surely it is also cultural appropriation for southern hemisphere residents to have gift giving in winter like our European friends in the northern hemisphere, and cultural appropriation for non-Maori to celebrate Matariki. She has some interesting ideas for a shake up of our calendar, but using “cultural appropriation” as the main justification undermines all of her other arguments.
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December 29, 2020 8:40am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I was about to post a link to the same article – cheers for that.
  
  As usual this “journalist” and author has missed the mark by 1,000 miles. The people objecting to any references to Christmas are not secularists and atheists – as a card-carrying atheist I can assure you that I have no objection to celebrating any religious festival, or to references to Christ, Christians, Easter, Hannukah, Passover, Eid, Diwali or anything.
  
  The ones that object to these things are not even the Muslims (although some may fall into that camp). No, the ones who have decided that a reference to Christmas or Christ might be offensive are the SJWs who see offence everywhere – invariably on behalf of other people, who just as invariably couldn’t care less.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:10am
  - Notsofast
    
    “If this column had an impact on you, please become a Stuff supporter.”
    
    It worked! How much did you both give?
    I recall some of Dawkins’ best work being untangling the dance of the bees.
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:20am
  - chukar
    
    Agreed,
    Well said
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:37am
  - MFD
    
    “As usual this “journalist” and author has missed the mark by 1,000 miles”.
    
    On the contrary, this “journalist” hit the bullseye. They managed to get you and others to go to their website and boost their advertising revenue.
    
    Played like a 2 bit fiddle.
    
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    December 29, 2020 12:23pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      She’s not that smart – not by 1,000 miles.
      
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      December 29, 2020 3:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  All report for Ancestor Worship at Matariki. Christmas has been eaten by Stuff’s pet taniwha Ordurn.
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:16am
- kowtow
  
  I would have called it parody except I believe she is serious about substituting Christmas with the recently created notion of a New Zealand version of Pleiades.
  
  This is the second such in stuff in recent days to also question the idea of our calendar / cultural appropriation etc
  
  These people live in an alternative reality and pick and chose their shiboleths ( oh look I’m not a Jew so shouldn’t use that term)
  
  Our calendar is Roman and pagan , therefore unless you are a Roman and/or a subject of said Empire stop appropriating their calendar . If you’re not a pagan stop using it . Here comes January , after janus god of beginnings . August and July after blood thirsty war mongering slave owners . Not to mention December , what a balls up , the tenth month celebrated in the twelth. Can’t you get it right?
  
  Days of the weeks ? If you’re not a Scandanavian pagan then just lay off those too .
  
  Anyway , we’re witnessing whole sale pointless virtue signalling which actually amounts to an assault on well established traditions , which will do nothing but create division , uncertainty and resentment .
  
  And the bottom line in her very negative tirade around Christmas is her failure to note the universal appeal of it even for a secularist. The celebration of family , of redemption , of a new beginning heralding joy peace and the triumph of good over evil .
  
  What’s not to celebrate ?
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:36am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s also a “heathen” worship time. Maori are lauding it for ancestor worship. That still exists throughout Polynesia. Such worship is not affirmed by Christians.
    
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    December 29, 2020 2:25pm
Fletch

Democrats went down to Georgia (a Charlie Daniels parody).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE5s3-DXLeU
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December 29, 2020 8:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Excellent. Now wait for the downticks when the KB commies wake up
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:14am
Notsofast

Judith Collins and her National Party will be delighted with this

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55463241

Discipline is essential for the unruly.
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December 29, 2020 9:02am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Aren’t you glad you live in a country where you’re not likely to be jailed for “picking quarrels and provoking trouble” as the citizen-journalist was.
  
  Mind you, if your mob gets their way, Jacinda and Angry Andy will very likely be introducing laws that could get you locked up for just that.
  
  I’m sure the irony is lost on someone with the mental acuity of an ant.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:22am
  - Notsofast
    
    I noticed a comment on the herald article on China stating the obvious. If New Zealand causes trouble they will invade us to seize the farms John Key sold them.
    
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    December 29, 2020 9:30am
    - kowtow
      
      Invade ?
      
      They don’t need to.
      
      Their Fifth Column is so big and influential .
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:10am
    - Swifty
      
      “….the farms John Key sold them…”
      
      This is why very few take you seriously here – you stretch the truth to the point of flat out lying.
      
      Unless of course you can show me where Key owned farms which he subsequently sold to the Chinese.
      
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      December 29, 2020 10:58am
      - RJ
        
        [Deleted – not here. Mod.]
        
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        December 29, 2020 11:28am
  - Paulus
    
    Watched on TV of old pre War 11 circumstance last evening on an episode of Antiques Roadshow and watched the pictures, film and facts from the rise of Nazism in Germany and how it showed the rise of Hitler.
    Interesting parallels of how more and more control was taken by the Authorities by new and often pernicious legislation which occurred without the populace understanding until it was too late.
    Should, but will not, be heeded.
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:13am
  - IC5000
    
    > Mind you, if your mob gets their way, Jacinda and Angry Andy will very likely be introducing laws that could get you locked up for just that
    
    What’s stopping them from doing it now since they have a majority? Oh that’s right it’s just mire shit you made up out of your fervent idiocy.
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:14pm
    - MFD
      
      A bit harsh. Surely Antiques Roadshow should shoulder some of the blame here, IC.
      Edgy TV pushing the boundaries for old farts.
      
      1 2
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      December 29, 2020 3:00pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      The fact that Parliament is in recess, you muppet. What are you, 12?
      
      6 1
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      December 29, 2020 3:55pm
      - IC5000
        
        Well a 12 year wouldn’t be making up delusional shit like you so I have to give them credit for not being a cretin
        
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        December 29, 2020 4:01pm
      - MFD
        
        Parliament in recess? Surely some mistake! There’s a climate emergency to be attended to!
        
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        December 29, 2020 4:04pm
Paulus

I understand that New Zealander currently in the UK wishing to return but cannot have been asked to register.
This appears to me that we, the taxpayers, will subsidise a chartered return flight to New Zealand courtesy of Cindy – well they voted for her too !
However I wonder how many flights there will need to be as I thought thousands wanted to return.
And of course we do not have enough quarantine facilities to cover returnees from other parts such as Asia, or via Dubai etc as well.
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December 29, 2020 9:19am
- MCos
  
  A lot of conjecturizing on your part.
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:44am
- rouppe
  
  People have had plenty of time to get back here.
  
  To suddenly appear on TV and wail that they are “stuck” and “now feel unsafe” is too bad.
  
  Suck it up. PayPal still works, mum and dad can still send them money
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:45am
- Master Mariner
  
  I believe all corridors are closing fast, Singapore, Dubai, Other european aiports etc.
  We monitor this closely through Company Intel.
  
  We currently have 60 UK citizens unable to join vessels world wide. UK recognise the fact that Seafarers are Key workers but unfortunately other Governments have closed their Major Hubs to them.
  
  Be interesting if they close UK citizens from entering NZ, Especially after not requiring a PCR test pre departure for all other “NZ Citizens” from high risk countries and / or Transits. Cant see the “forest through the Trees”, Mentality.
  
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  December 29, 2020 11:55am
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/ligia4508/status/1343338372618711040
Ukraine confirms Biden Corruption in Press Conference released Dec 25, 2020. Over 1 hour long and with bank records and witness.
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December 29, 2020 9:32am
- curry4me
  
  Jibber Jabber: I expect this will be the lead item on the Ewes at Sux. /sarc
  
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  December 29, 2020 1:11pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Don’t hold your breath.
    
    4 4
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    December 29, 2020 1:18pm
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The venality of Trump’s toadies ,

Dan Rather

@DanRather

I’ll be listening to Dr. Fauci and other science and medical professionals. Not the whelps of political lapdogs. If you don’t like the science, let others get the vaccine first.

anguillaman2

@anguillaman2

Replying to
@DanRather
Look at all of the Republicans like Rubio and McConnell who called it a hoax and sided with Trump but jumped ahead of healthcare workers to get vaccinated!
8:52 AM · Dec 28, 2020·

https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1343283128144523264
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December 29, 2020 9:33am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Dan Rather was a legend in the newsroom for his honesty as journalist–very rare these days.
  Consider emulating him.
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:21am
  - oldfella
    
    Yep, good old Dan Rather who had to resign after being part of some serious journalistic malpractice against a Republican president.
    https://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/bal-te.to.cbs11jan11-story.html
    Apart from that, Kev, he was fine. 😉
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:35am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Your link included this: “The panel reported that Rather apparently did not participate in the vetting of the segment and did not see it before it aired.”
      
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      December 29, 2020 4:34pm
  - Alan1930
    
    Speaking of honesty in journalism, isn’t it interesting how both Fox and Newsmax have both admitted that what they published about Dominion Voting Systems & Smartmatic was without foundation.
    
    Funny how the threat of multi-million dollar defamation suits made them suddenly grow a conscience.
    
    Also I see that the attempted deception by Dr Shiva Ayyadurai with his scatter graphs has now been comprehensively exposed by a mathematical expert. https://youtu.be/aokNwKx7gM8
    
    Yet another example of so-called-evidence used by some here being tested and found to be severely wanting.
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:05am
- virtualmark
  
  Yes, the Rubio’s of this world rail against the “elites” (because that’s the red meat the GOP’s base feeds on nowadays).
  
  And then Rubio jumps the queue to get a vaccine.
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:42am
- Billy Collins
  
  Dr. Fauci was saying exactly what Trump was saying earlier this year. He said Covid wasn’t something to worry about.
  
  Fauci also admitted, just the other day, that he has been lying to the public this entire time anyway.
  
  So, who do you trust?
  
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  December 29, 2020 11:06am
  - SB2
    
    Thats untrue. At the time Dr Fauci qualified his comment by alerting the nation to the dangers of Covid 19 id it spread unchecked .
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:35pm
Steve Todd

Yesterday, at General Debate, I took it upon myself to amend a comment posted by fernglas, about “millions [having] been conned into believing a lie” (about the COVID-19 outbreak being “intentionally planned” by “powerful people”), by inserting words that primarily blamed right-wing pastors for that. See https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/12/general_debate_28_december_2020.html/comment-page-1#comment-2865018.

I now give you a case in point, just in, about the kind of pastor I was referring to: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/12/27/e-w-jackson-joe-biden-cursed-our-nation-by-saying-covid-is-still-dangerous/?
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December 29, 2020 9:54am
- Nukuleka
  
  You really must get over this type of obsessive behaviour, Steve. Do you lie awake at night fixating on such things, and are you going to continue to post daily updates on the number of these ‘pastors’? It’s awfully tedious and convinces no one.
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:08am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Nuks, I will conduct myself here as I, and the Moderator, see fit.
    
    Back about February 2019, I had a crack at Tall Man, for one of his comments. He responded by giving me some very sage advice. He said something like: “If you don’t like my comments, don’t @#&%$ read them.”
    
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    December 29, 2020 10:46am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What do you know about spiritual curses? Pastor Jackson may well have rightly discerned the outcome of Biden’s remarks.
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:26am
  - Steve Todd
    
    What do you know about spiritual curses?
    
    What an odd question to put to the messenger. Regardless, the answer is nothing, except that they have no effect on rational people whatsoever.
    
    11 4
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    December 29, 2020 10:53am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Rational people may not be aware of such curses but that is no help against their affect if they are its subject.
      
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      December 29, 2020 2:36pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Oh, Kev. Like I say, there is no effect (on rational people).
        
        I know I’m going to regret this, but can you point to any documented cases where “spiritual curses” have had actual, adverse effects on rational, secular, people?
        
        (That question is asked of you by the least spiritual person on this planet.)
        
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        December 29, 2020 3:13pm
      - Swifty
        
        It’s all here Steve.
        
        Placing a curse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmziQc9tsaM
        
        Removing a curse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oc2Huyt21U
        
        Anoint your home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIHFEYZZSR4
        
        Or if really bad try this powerful mantra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61W8fmyhm3o
        
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        December 29, 2020 4:15pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Myself and family have have had to deal with spiritual interference including curses. Some of this is documented in my book. That’s why I can affirm Christianity so vigorously I have met the other side.
        
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        December 29, 2020 6:29pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        I’ve just seen your reply, Swifty. Sigh. I’ll check them out tomorrow.
        
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        December 29, 2020 8:18pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Some of this is documented in my book.
        
        Book? Book? What book?
        
        I’ve just had a crack at Engelbert Humperdink for not giving us links to his sources, and now you do it, too!
        
        Kev! Details please. Where do we get hold of this book?
        
        Also, please give us the page numbers where you deal with the “spiritual interventions including curses”, so we can go straight to the source.
        
        Thanks.
        
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        December 29, 2020 8:42pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Hey, Swifty! Somehow, I’m not persuaded. ?
        
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        December 30, 2020 1:21pm
- Swifty
  
  Kenneth Copeland Metal Remix:
  
  Covid 19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JPRvxTjfOk
  
  Wind of God: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ib2YfAM11E
  
  🙂
  
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  December 29, 2020 10:53am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Heh, heh, heh.
    
    I knew it was bad, of course, but that is just ridiculous. To think there are people out there who are taken in by these charlatans.
    
    On the other hand, combined with the heavy metal, it was funny.
    
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    December 29, 2020 12:50pm
    - Swifty
      
      They live among us.
      
      2 0
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      December 29, 2020 6:28pm
  - SB2
    
    Cam D.
    
    ” This guy could literally reveal himself as being the devil and I wouldn’t even blink.”
    
    1 8
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    December 29, 2020 3:21pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Do you have any evidence to combat the Chinese virologist who was working in the laboratories?
  The virus is a very peculiar creation by whomsoever. It fits well the 2015 predictions and plans.
  
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  December 29, 2020 2:32pm
Ian Boag

Another angle on the bilingual place name thing. Quite a few rivers re known by Maori names. To take the three in Hawkes Bay

Tutaekuri – “dog shit”
Ngaruroro – meaning of the name is obscure
Tukituki – a verb – roughly translates “to demolish”

Mohaka – “place for dancing”

Waipukurau – “waters of the pukurau” (a kind of fungus)

Not to forget Te Urewera – “burned penis”

There are a few more at https://mjwrightnz.wordpress.com/2013/12/22/new-zealands-slightly-rude-place-names/#:~:text=3.,crops%20grew%20in%20the%20area.

Should keep a working group busy for a while 🙂
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December 29, 2020 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  Kaitangata. Eating people place.Digest that.
  
  25 4
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  December 29, 2020 10:40am
  - oldfella
    
    kowtow, gives me heartburn just thinking about it.
    
    8 2
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    December 29, 2020 11:03am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Kaimanawa – Heart eater
      
      15 1
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      December 29, 2020 11:41am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Kopiokaitangata – Cannibal Gorge
    Kaikanohi… Eat eyes (of wife)
    
    16 1
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    December 29, 2020 11:39am
- oldfella
  
  Ian, I reckon Te Urewera (burned penis) was some kind of early Maori fast food. A winner’s dinner!
  
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  December 29, 2020 11:09am
  - oldfella
    
    If you cooked the penis over a fire it could be ‘dick on a stick’. And if the former owner of the appendage had been sick with measles or some kind of whitey sickness, it could end up as ‘spotted dick on a stick’.
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:59pm
- Ian Boag
  
  If you REALLY want to know – here is the most comprehensive link I found …
  
  https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/maori-language-week/1000-maori-place-names
  
  The bilingualism of road signs and maps and stuff starts to look a bit hard …..
  
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  December 29, 2020 11:57am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    But strangely enough… no offering for Te Urerewa and Urenui is translated as big courage!
    
    6 1
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    December 29, 2020 1:28pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      There are lots not there … which brings one back to the bit about how bilingualising the place names is a far-from-trivial task, and noone will be all that thrilled with the outcome.
      
      Which of us English speakers will want to go to “burned oven ashes” (Paraparaumu) for the day? …. Even worse, will RNZ and Metservice have a crack at using the Anglo names … 🙂
      
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      December 29, 2020 2:19pm
  - oldfella
    
    Ian, I can’t wait to see the new road signage for this gem:
    Taumatawhakatangihanga kōauauotamatea pōkaiwhenuakitanatahu
    With the English translation below it (but in much smaller letters):
    “The brow of the hill where Tamatea who travelled all over the land played his flute to his lover.”
    https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/maori-language-week/1000-maori-place-names#
    
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    December 29, 2020 2:06pm
    - Batman
      
      Doesn’t that exact sign already exist?
      
      Also there are quite struct standards around that stuff which would prevent your imagined scenario ?
      
      2 6
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      December 29, 2020 3:54pm
    - alwyn
      
      I think you have cut it off a bit short. The full version has 85 letters.
      It is just south of Porangahau in Southern Hawkes Bay. And yes the sign is there.
      https://www.newzealand.com/my/feature/the-longest-place-name-in-new-zealand/
      
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      December 29, 2020 7:10pm
oldfella

Good news, everyone. No need to gaze into the crystal ball to figure out what 2021 will be like. Chris Trotter has done it for us. And, according to Trotter, the coming year will be all about brown poverty and white guilt. Yep, deja vue all over again…
++
IN THE COMING YEAR New Zealand politics will be driven by two inter-related forces: brown poverty and white guilt. Jacinda Ardern’s government will not be given a choice on the issue of brown poverty. Dealing with white guilt, however, will be very much a matter of opting to behave wisely or foolishly. It remains to be seen whether Labour possesses the wisdom to not act like a fool.
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/12/24/2021-will-be-about-brown-poverty-and-white-guilt/
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December 29, 2020 11:02am
Maggie Pie

We came up to Tindalls about 9 last night.
Sitting by myself on the deck looking out over the beach. Tide was right in this morning, nearly lapping the stone steps. There’s hardly anyone on the beach at the moment. A couple of landwhales came down early for a swim, but disappeared soon after they saw my partner pointing at them. Anyway, he put the Tristram in about an hour ago and took the two gay guys from behind us out for a fish. Will report back later if he catches anything.
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December 29, 2020 11:07am
- Mike
  
  Fascinating. Want to read about my morning?
  
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  December 29, 2020 11:25am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    TBH Michael, I couldn’t think of anything more f–ing boring 😀
    
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    December 29, 2020 11:53am
    - sooty
      
      Whales not good bait?
      
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      December 29, 2020 12:00pm
  - MFD
    
    I do, Mike.
    
    Was thinking about painting something so that I could watch it dry rather than waiting with baited breath to hear about some fish.
    
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    December 29, 2020 12:18pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Whether it’s MMA’s morning or Maggie Pie’s Partners activity, it’s just trolling.
      
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      December 29, 2020 1:31pm
      - MFD
        
        That’s the net effect…but we can regard them as chums, can’t we?
        
        3 1
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        December 29, 2020 2:00pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Was the spelling of bated deliberate?
      
      4 1
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      December 29, 2020 2:24pm
      - MFD
        
        Naturally. Seemed like the right plaice to rark up the old trout.
        
        4 2
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        December 29, 2020 4:06pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Some of us are paronomasiacs
        
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        December 29, 2020 4:12pm
      - MFD
        
        “Some of us are paronomasiacs”
        
        …and some are left floundering.
        
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        December 29, 2020 4:18pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRca5BeWvSEzIKqVrCKbnQ_qTH57B4VS00M5w&usqp=CAU
        
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        December 29, 2020 7:24pm
      - MFD
        
        Well played, madame.
        I shall retire from this pescatorial punfest, battered but not beaten.
        
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        December 29, 2020 8:05pm
oldfella

I wonder if we have this problem in ayoteearower?
++
[US] Military leaders are worried about the shrinking pool of young people who qualify for military service…
More than 70% of young Americans remain unable to join the military due to obesity, education problems, or crime and drug records.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/12/27/obesity-and-other-problems-barring-teens-military-service-need-national-attention-leaders-say.html
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December 29, 2020 11:20am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Once were warriors. Now be whales.
  
  16 3
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  December 29, 2020 11:55am
- MFD
  
  Bone spurs not a thing these days then?
  
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  December 29, 2020 12:15pm
  - Mike
    
    The incidence of bone spurs declined dramatically after the US abolished the draft.
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:48pm
Maggie Pie

Laying here scrolling thru some of my earlier Twitter feed.
Don’t know if any of the group has seen this, but honestly, I think you’d have to call ZB’s breakfast host Mike Hosking’s integrity in to question after seeing this I reckon.
Looks to me like those Tuesday morning ‘grillings’ he supposedly gives the PM, are nothing more than pre-arranged staged bullshit!

https://www.watchme.co.nz/news/newstalk-zb/jacinda-ardern-and-mike-hosking-exchange-christmas-gifts/
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December 29, 2020 12:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Do not refer to sharemilkers as Gypsies.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433740/complaint-against-tvnz-for-using-discriminatory-term-upheld

To be on the safe side… don’t refer to Grey Nomads or Geriatric Gypsies
https://www.smh.com.au/national/geriatric-gypsies-leave-grey-nomads-in-their-wake-20130628-2p35p.html
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December 29, 2020 12:15pm
- mandk
  
  Why can’t we call gypsies, gypsies?
  
  World heavyweight boxing champion, Tyson Fury, is a gypsy, and that is what he calls himself.
  
  Maybe we should refer to gypsies as pikies instead.
  
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  December 29, 2020 2:08pm
  - Batman
    
    They say traveller so just use that term?
    
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    December 29, 2020 3:59pm
    - mandk
      
      Tyson Fury calls himself a traveller?
      
      5 0
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      December 29, 2020 4:58pm
- oldfella
  
  Maggy, just think of all the movies, books, songs and TV shows that will now no longer be acceptable in ayoteearower because they have the word ‘gypsy’ in the title. Burn them all!
  
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  December 29, 2020 2:20pm
Engelbert Humperdink

Meanwhile, news from the UK…

“…Thousands of patients are queuing on trolleys in the corridors of overstretched hospitals. NHS managers have appealed to the public to only seek hospital care in a genuine emergency. Those genuine emergency patients have been told to take taxis to A&E because of a shortage of ambulances. Meanwhile, ambulance paramedics say they fear for people’s lives as the NHS struggles to cope with demand. ”

Oh, did I mention? This breathless doomporn dates from December 2019… Yes, really.
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December 29, 2020 12:18pm
- Steve Todd
  
  And yet, for some unfathomable reason, it didn’t occur to you that you would increase your chances of being taken seriously if you also gave us the link to your source.
  
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  December 29, 2020 1:00pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    For a perfectly fathomable reason. You can do your own research ST.
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:26pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      But, Humpy! You’ve already done the research, or, more likely, you stumbled across something you agreed with. All you had to do was include the link with your comment. What could be easier than that?
      
      There’s no way I, for one, am going to spend an hour or more of my precious time trying to confirm the “opinion” of another commenter – unless, of course, for my own reasons, I’m particularly driven to do so. In this particular case, let me assure you, I’m not.
      
      Basically, Humpy, what you did was treat us like fools.
      
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      December 29, 2020 1:48pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        There’s no way I, for one, am going to spend an hour or more of my precious time trying to confirm…
        
        Copied and pasted “Thousands of patients are queuing on trolleys in the corridors of overstretched hospitals” into Google and returned 502,000 results in 0.50 seconds. The first link was the Guardian, but there were others on the first page related to that specific phrase.
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/10/thousands-of-patients-die-waiting-for-beds-in-hospitals-study
        
        Total time including opening separate browser tab, pasting in search term and getting search results. 1.5 seconds.
        
        I’m not sure how that would take you an hour or more. Steve, I suggest you feed the hamster powering your computer, or take lessons in using Google.
        
        In Engelbert Humperdink’s defense, it is very rare for genuine researchers to take the first or first confirmation link. It is not unusual for a researcher to access and validate dozens or hundreds of online data sources, all within a few minutes.
        
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        December 29, 2020 3:41pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thank you for your response, JackRabbit.
        
        It’s great that you got there in a second or so. It suited you to check it out, and, as it happened, you lucked out. Well done, you.
        
        My point is, I am not going to take the risk of ending up spending ages trying to confirm what a commenter has said. I’ve done it before, and got nowhere.
        
        If you are familiar with my contributions (as you are about to realise you should be), you will know that, where necessary (in my view), I provide links to my sources. As I said to you, here, https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/12/the_massive_us_hack.html#comment-2862057 (a Big Shoutout to yesterday’s Moderator; thank you, thank you)—
        
        “If any Kiwiblogger were to go back over my 2,000+ comments over the last seven years, he or she would see that at least 80% of them include links to the websites I had come across, or searched out for myself, and consulted.
        
        “They would also see that, in every case, I gave a brief description of (or otherwise made it clear) what they would see at the link, so that they were able to decide for themselves whether or not it would likely be worth their while clicking on them – a small courtesy to my fellow commenters.
        “It’s not too much to ask for, or expect – and, of course, it would facilitate discussion.”
        
        ’Nuff said, I think.
        
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        December 29, 2020 5:10pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Steve Todd
        
        Thanks for your response. Actually I had no interest in the link. It was your response that was the catalyst for me to look for it.
        
        It is good that you provide links, and very much appreciated. But as a researcher, as part of my duties spanning several decades, I find that links in themselves are insufficient.
        
        If the ‘quantities of links’ was the key factor in deciding if someone’s premise or theory was correct, SB2/Stephie boy would be the hero of the year. But sadly, the opposite is true.
        
        Personally I like to see the logic and underlying premises of the poster more than I do a link. Reading what someone has clearly thought through is more of more value than a link.
        
        The entire Trump election saga is case in point. Anyone can post links on how Trump has dirty hands, or how Biden has dirty hands.
        
        All the while the real issue is that there are enough indicators and red flags that the election voting process has been been compromised and hijacked.
        
        As a principle, if the voting process has been compromised, the USA will not end up with the leadership team the people of the USA voted for, irrespective of whether the Democrats hijecked this election or in another time line the Republicans might be tempted to do the same.
        
        Links do not prove anything, because there are ample of links for both Trump and Biden. Of much greater concern is the fact that the election has been compromised, and that should strike fear
        into both democrats and republicans alike.
        
        You could post link after link about legal action being dismissed by judges, however if there are indicators of fraud, judges are duty bound to act. The fact that they don’t, does not prove the fraud did not exist, only that the judges, for whatever reason, chose to not act according to their obligations.
        
        The same situation exists in NZ on a commercial scale. Police in many cases do nothing about fraud. The don’t have the manpower, and in many cases, the industry specific understanding to investigate, especially if it involves technology. So the victims have to resort to paying specialist Private Investigators to put all the evidence together and make the case. TradeMe have been doing this for years, otherwise nothing would get to court.
        
        And finally, our great leader and her team make proclamations every day. Links or not, most of them are pure bullshit. How do I know? I do the research.
        
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        December 29, 2020 8:09pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Wow! Talk about an over-reaction!
        
        Actually I had no interest in the link. It was your response that was the catalyst for me to look for it.
        
        Yeah, yeah. Do tell. I suspect you either missed it, or are now simply covering for the fact that I have now “forced” you to respond to it. Whatever. It doesn’t matter.
        
        JackRabbit: I’m very aware that links, in and of themselves, are not dispositive, but that was not what I was on about.
        
        I’m simply trying to get Engelbert Humperdink, et al, to give us links to their sources (as I do, as I say, as a courtesy to my fellow commenters), so we Kiwibloggers can check for ourselves the veracity of what they’re trying to convince us of.
        
        Simple as that. Not too difficult, is it?
        
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        December 29, 2020 9:07pm
    - rouppe
      
      Nah, that’s a cop out. Without it, you’re just ranting
      
      4 6
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      December 29, 2020 1:56pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Bang on, rouppe. Succinct, and to the point.
        
        3 10
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        December 29, 2020 4:04pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Humpy Dumperdink.
        
        3 8
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        December 29, 2020 4:12pm
Master Mariner

Who’s read this Outstanding piece of Journalism ?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/12/government-warned-against-pre-departure-covid-19-testing.html

Gosh we are so lucky to have so much common sense and sound advice from our Health representatives.

Makes my Blood boil. Yours?
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December 29, 2020 12:35pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  That ‘article’ is a classical nitwitted exemplar of “the perfect is the enemy of the good”.
  
  8 2
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  December 29, 2020 12:53pm
- fernglas
  
  Well, it’s Dame Siouxsie opining that it would be unfair to the poor to make them have tests (makes you wonder how they afforded the tickets and travel), and she is very open about the fact that she always makes scientific conclusions based on her political belief. I don’t consider her a Health representative, just a self-appointed mouth.
  
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  December 29, 2020 1:02pm
  - Clyde
    
    Anything that this self-opinionated piece says is instantly forgotten by me. Its a source of wonder to me why the MSM who seem to love her don’t express an interest in why she chooses to “stick out” to attract attention.
    
    8 2
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    December 29, 2020 3:01pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Oh dear,
      
      Looks like Pre-flight testing is going to be a requirement.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123833342/covid19-worsening-global-situation-behind-move-to-predeparture-testing
      
      Prof Siouxsie will have to do another about-turn.
      
      12 1
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      December 29, 2020 4:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Is Professor Wiles part of the official inner sanctum or not?
  So very confusing when she opines..
  
  Thank goodness we have been instructed to only believe what is delivered from the Podium.
  
  17 1
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  December 29, 2020 1:40pm
Andrei

Oh Oh

HARRISBURG – A group of state lawmakers performing extensive analysis of election data today revealed troubling discrepancies between the numbers of total votes counted and total number of voters who voted in the 2020 General Election, and as a result are questioning how the results of the presidential election could possibly have been certified by Secretary of the Commonwealth Kathy Boockvar and Governor Tom Wolf. These findings are in addition to prior concerns regarding actions by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, the Secretary, and others impacting the conduct of the election.

A comparison of official county election results to the total number of voters who voted on November 3, 2020 as recorded by the Department of State shows that 6,962,607 total ballots were reported as being cast, while DoS/SURE system records indicate that only 6,760,230 total voters actually voted. Among the 6,962,607 total ballots cast, 6,931,060 total votes were counted in the presidential race, including all three candidates on the ballot and write-in candidates.

The difference of 202,377 more votes cast than voters voting, together with the 31,547 over- and under-votes in the presidential race, adds up to an alarming discrepancy of 170,830 votes, which is more than twice the reported statewide difference between the two major candidates for President of the United States. On November 24, 2020, Boockvar certified election results, and Wolf issued a certificate of ascertainment of presidential electors, stating that Vice President Joe Biden received 80,555 more votes than President Donald Trump.
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December 29, 2020 12:38pm
- Steve Todd
  
  So, not official then?
  
  I mean really, Andrei! You’re relying on the blatherings of a conservative Republican Penn state legislator, with a dodgy past? You are joking, right?
  
  Just read his Wikipedia entry!
  
  Here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Diamond. Check out the commentaries under Tenure and controversies and Protection from abuse orders and public drunkenness citation.
  
  Andrei! It’s over!
  
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  December 29, 2020 1:23pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    If it’s over Steve, why doth thou protest so much?
    
    I think the election steal is a done deal, as it happens, but why are you so exercised about others’ opinions being different from yours?
    
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    December 29, 2020 1:28pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Perhaps I’m concerned about the well-being of people who, utterly irrationally, continue to “flog a dead horse”.
      
      Humpy. It’s called “discussion”, “dialogue”, stuff like that.
      
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      December 29, 2020 1:55pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Concern troll’s concerned.
        
        9 2
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        December 29, 2020 2:14pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Okay, Humpy. Here goes.
        
        I take that jibberish to be an actual attack on me. So, here’s my calm, reasoned, Kiwiblog-appropriate, response.
        
        At DPF’s ‘Comments Policy’, he defines ‘Trolling’ as—
        
        “Trolling
        
        “Trolling is an attempt to deliberately disrupt a conversation by being grossly offensive or massively off topic.
        
        “Comments on a post should be a response to the topic of the post. While some thread drift is inevitable, do not try to divert the thread into another topic. Use the daily General Debate for other topics.”
        
        No doubt you immediately see your problem (with regard to me).
        
        In all my seven plus years on Kiwiblog, I have never put up comments that would comply with that definition.
        
        What you, and many other Kiwibloggers, assume, is that only your comments are acceptable here. Wrong! You assume that, if anyone puts up a comment deemed to be “to the Left of centre”, then they’re guilty of this terrible crime called “trolling”. What utter nonsense.
        
        DPF also has also set out what General Debate is intended (by him) to be—
        
        “General Debate
        
        “The general debate thread has no set topic, so nothing there is off topic. Moderation will be slightly lighter in the General Debate, but abusive comments will still face a sanction.”
        
        See what I’m getting at?
        
        Furthermore, on 27 March 2019 (according to my records, at the time), DPF said, at https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/03/kiwiblog_content_and_comments.html (although it doesn’t seem to be there now)—
        
        “The thing I like on Kiwiblog is that we have people who comment from across the political spectrum. Views get challenged. My views get challenged every day by commenters.”
        
        As I say, I doesn’t seem to be there now, but, in essence, DPF was saying that Kiwiblog is not, nor has he ever intended it to be, a right-wing echo chamber. It is a place where, as I have pointed out here previously, all views, reasonably expressed, are welcome.
        
        Englebert Humperdink: please take note.
        
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        December 29, 2020 6:48pm
- SB2
  
  Andrei, uh oh,
  
  Fact-checking false claims about Pennsylvania’s presidential election by Trump and his allies
  
  In the days since President Donald Trump lost his bid for reelection, he has relentlessly and falsely attacked the result in Pennsylvania and other battleground states as the product of widespread fraud. His assaults culminated last week in a 46-minute videotaped screed full of demonstrable falsehoods.
  
  As Judge Stephanos Bibas, a Trump appointee to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, said in dismissing one campaign challenge last month: “Calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”
  
  Below, we’ve gathered and debunked some of the most prominent false claims about Pennsylvania’s presidential election leveled in recent weeks by Trump and his allies.
  
  https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/pennsylvania-election-results-trump-fraud-fact-check-20201206.html
  
  4 16
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  December 29, 2020 1:37pm
  - backster
    
    I understand in Pennsylvania 200,000 more people voted than were on the roll.
    
    2 5
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    December 29, 2020 5:21pm
    - Monique Watson
      
      No. That is not the case. Incomplete data published by a pro Trump mouthpiece.
      
      4 3
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      December 29, 2020 7:09pm
    - SB2
      
      Source of that claim apart from the outgoing president?
      
      2 6
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      December 29, 2020 7:14pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGn8FPd9bSI

A Tiny Indian Archipelago Makes China Nervous.

As the India-China rivalry grows, #India is now militarizing the Andaman and Nicobar archipelago by the entry point of the #Malacca Strait.
10 3
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December 29, 2020 12:54pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Steaming past there now.
  
  North bound. FWIW.
  
  12 0
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  December 29, 2020 1:39pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    I trust the Indians will not be using the Islands where the inhabitants are not to kind to visitors and bump them off.
    
    6 0
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    December 29, 2020 2:10pm
    - Mike
      
      That would be the one or two islands reserved for the uncontacted aboriginal population? Visitors are prohibited, although that hasn’t stopped a few missionaries from tying, and being killed for their pains.
      
      8 0
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      December 29, 2020 4:32pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Was telling ROV crew same thing, Certain Islands you will disappear.
      Illegally to land in a lot of Islands there.
      
      I think a missionary a year or 2 back was Taken
      
      However there is tourists on main islands, Diving etc.
      
      10 0
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      December 29, 2020 4:34pm
  - rangitoto
    
    North Sentinel Island is cheap to stay.
    
    6 0
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    December 29, 2020 5:42pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfJR6gFgRGQ

China’s Need is Australia’s Leverage.

In the recent past, Beijing has imposed tariffs on a broad range of Australian products- coal, barley, wine and lobsters. But now its Australia’s turn to take revenge on China, as the latter remains desperate for Australian iron ore.
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December 29, 2020 12:54pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/0AKvcQSE8XQ/

A Patriot Party is a Good Idea.

A new Patriot Party that was based on the erstwhile values of
the Republican party might be a good idea. It would have to go
after ‘big business’ which is more powerful now than during
the gilded age. It’d need a policy of strict constructionism on
the constitution. It’d have to stand for capitalism; not the
present crony capitalism.
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December 29, 2020 12:54pm
JibberJabber

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/asymptomatic-transmission-of-covid-19-didnt-occur-at-all-study-of-10-million-finds

WUHAN, China, December 23, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) – A study of almost 10 million people in Wuhan, China, found that asymptomatic spread of COVID-19 did not occur at all, thus undermining the need for lockdowns, which are built on the premise of the virus being unwittingly spread by infectious, asymptomatic people.

These results are not without precedent. In June, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the World Health Organization’s (WHO) emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, shed doubt upon asymptomatic transmission. Speaking at a press conference, Van Kerkhove explained, “From the data we have, it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual.”

She then repeated the words “It’s very rare,” but despite her word choice of “rare,” Van Kerkhove could not point to a single case of asymptomatic transmission, noting that numerous reports “were not finding secondary transmission onward.”
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December 29, 2020 1:12pm
- SB2
  
  A response,
  
  A mass screening programme of more than 10 million Wuhan residents identified 300 asymptomatic cases, but none were infectious, according to a study involving the University of East Anglia.
  
  The mass testing project took place over two weeks at the end of May — after the city’s stringent lockdown was lifted in April.
  
  The study found no ‘viable’ virus in the asymptomatic cases and the close contacts of these positive asymptomatic cases did not test positive.
  But the research team warn that their findings do not show that the virus can’t be passed on by asymptomatic carriers.
  
  Rather, strict non-pharmaceutical interventions such as mask-wearing, hand washing, social distancing and lockdown have helped reduce the virulence of Covid-19…..”
  
  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201130131511.htm
  
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  December 29, 2020 1:47pm
Monique Watson

Well that is that then. Trump has been rendered totally impotent and we should expect no more trouble out of him until the 20th when his Twitter account will be promptly suspended. The majority of the Republicans crossed the floor and voted to override his stupid veto on the Defence bill:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/defense/531826-house-overrides-trump-veto-of-defense-bill%3famp
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December 29, 2020 1:25pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

road toll double last year’s already. well done nzta, another successful campaign under the belt. the cardigans in Wellington have struck again. let’s close passing and make trips longer and slower – that will save lives. next they will reverse camber on roads to scare drivers into slowing down……whoops, too late -doing that already. no wonder nzta is the dumping ground for the unsackable public sector union employees.
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December 29, 2020 1:38pm
- RJ
  
  How about instead of blaming nzta put the blame where it belongs. Speed, dangerous passing. Two died when their car hit a bridge.
  
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  December 29, 2020 2:06pm
- alwyn
  
  The number of deaths on New Zealand roads this year was 315 up until 26/12/2020.
  The number in 2019 was 353.
  Your comment is rubbish.
  You also complain that closing passing lanes slows the traffic down. When traffic is very heavy it actually speeds it up. There are large delays, and a lot of accidents, caused by 2 lanes having to merge at the end of the passing lane. Traffic flow is much faster, and safer, if this merging is avoided by closing the passing lane.
  
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  December 29, 2020 2:17pm
  - RJ
    
    Gee, you mean the road toll for the year is lower, I wonder why, could it be the fact people were stuck at home unable to go anywhere for a while. And I’m sure you will find he means the holiday road toll which is up on last years.
    
    9 3
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    December 29, 2020 4:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Plod on the side of the road slows things up. There he is again – hit the brakes and slow down to 70km in a 100 km area.
    The fault is with the DRIVING SCHOOL TEACHERS. Slow down in case the traffic light turns amber. Has a reverse domino effect and affect
    
    7 3
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    December 29, 2020 4:18pm
- sooty
  
  You will catch up to aunt edna tootling along at 80 km, on the open road and be unable to pass till she stops at the garden centre!
  
  13 3
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  December 29, 2020 2:53pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Slows down for every oncoming vehicle and corners. Slingshot her and watch Edna speed up, flash the lights and toot.
    Class 5 here, I see it.
    
    8 3
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    December 29, 2020 4:20pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Mickey, you forgot that most passing lanes are too short making it impossible to pass without exceeding the speed limit, and/or breaking the 2 second rule.
  
  They have lots of warnings out in the media and on road signs, but nothing that says pull over to let faster traffic pass.
  
  Slow drivers
  If you are travelling slower than the speed limit and there are vehicles following you, you must:
  [1] Keep as close to the left side of the road as possible.
  [2] Pull over as soon as it is safe to let following vehicles pass.
  [3] Don’t speed up on straight stretches of road to prevent following vehicles from passing you.
  
  https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/road-code/about-limits/speed-limits/
  
  According to the Police, it’s actually OK to ring 555 and complain about road hogs travelling slow and holding up the traffic. Apparently it is a ticket-able offense.
  
  Passing lanes
  If you’ve been driving slower than the speed limit, don’t speed up when you reach a passing lane if other vehicles are following – give them the opportunity to pass you safely.
  
  14 2
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  December 29, 2020 3:22pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t speed up in the passing lanes? Tell the fucking morons. The road is twice as wide, so twice as safe //
    
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    December 29, 2020 4:23pm
tedbear

Meanwhile in Cambridge, Massachuetts the anti fossil fuel brigade have stepped up their indoctrination.
Health warning stickers on fuel pumps is the latest trick.
Tobacco is bad for your health right?
But apparently burning gasoline, diesel and ethanol is much worse – it has major consequences on human health.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/12/27/massachusetts-city-to-post-climate-change-warning-stickers-at-gas-stations/
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December 29, 2020 1:38pm
- SB2
  
  tedbear, can’t see why Anthony Watt’s should be taken seriously.
  
  https://www.facebook.com/Rationalwiki/posts/how-crank-magnetism-works-climate-change-denialist-anthony-watts-is-promoting-im/1292930140721055/
  
  3 16
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  December 29, 2020 1:48pm
  - tedbear
    
    SB2, Anthony Watts denialist or realist?
    Regardless, the item I posted isn’t about Watts.
    But you knew that lol.
    
    7 1
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    December 29, 2020 5:10pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    He posts more sensible material from a vast variety of sources than you refer to.
    
    4 7
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    December 29, 2020 6:44pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Clearly the “anti fossil fuel brigade” would be happy if Americans stopped burning coal, wood, gasoline, diesel and ethanol, and stop making all products derived out of same fossil fuels and animals.
  
  So reduce the USA population back to 10,000, living in caves, eating grass and dandelions, with fig leaves for clothes.
  
  It pays never to listen or give any credence to any group that suggests we consign something to the scrap heap, unless said group has put forward a viable alternative AND lives by their values.
  
  I wonder how the anti fossil fuel brigade get around these bays. Walking clothes in fig leaves, with shoes made from bark? Eating tofu?
  
  NO, driving in frigging automobiles, burning gasoline wearing designer shoes and clothes, and stopping off for lunch at McDonalds!
  
  8 3
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  December 29, 2020 2:15pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Typo
    
    “I wonder how the anti fossil fuel brigade get around these ~~bays~~ days.”
    
    5 1
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    December 29, 2020 3:24pm
  - kevn
    
    @JR… The tree huggers who drive electric cars maybe ?
    
    3 0
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    December 29, 2020 4:06pm
- alloytoo
  
  Why have human populations exploded since the mass use of fossil fuels?
  
  2 1
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  December 29, 2020 6:41pm
- Rich Prick
  
  It’s worse in California, anywhere cars might be parked, like hotel garages must display cancer warning signs. As a result, they’re pretty much meaningless and just a form of visual pollution.
  
  4 1
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  December 29, 2020 6:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/lego-introduces-new-sharper-bricks-that-instantly-kill-you-when-you-step-on-them?
5 5
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December 29, 2020 2:03pm
Maggie Pie

LATEST UPDATE: PETE BETHUNE BITTEN BY SNAKE..
.
doesn’t look promising for that Costa Rican Orthopedic Surgeon who wanted to buy his boots.

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1343740004460322818
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December 29, 2020 3:34pm
I remember when

It has not been a good year, or good last quarter for retired New Zealand cricketers named John Reid.
Firstly John Richard Reid, passed away on the 14th October and now John Fulton Reid has died in Christchurch.
Both must have at least enjoyed the steady growth in our status in world cricketing circles.
We doff our cap in memory.
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December 29, 2020 3:46pm
- Mike
  
  RIP.
  He can’t have been all that old. Part of the great NZ side of the early 80s.
  
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  December 29, 2020 4:38pm
I remember when

Pete Bethune bitten by a snake.
I can’t think of many people who need a snake bite less?
He already lives in a fairy tale world largely of his own making.
17 2
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December 29, 2020 3:54pm
- MFD
  
  Is the snake OK?
  
  14 1
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  December 29, 2020 4:33pm
WaynelSexton

Breaking News: In Pennsylvania there were 205,000 more votes than there were voters. This alone flips the state to President Trump.

– Donald J. Trump

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1343663159085834248

Sure doesn’t sound like a man on the verge of conceding anything.
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December 29, 2020 3:55pm
- Batman
  
  Sounds like a deranged narcissist listening to other deranged pole climbing grifters.
  
  Happy summer holidays!
  
  8 18
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  December 29, 2020 4:05pm
  - Inandout
    
    [Deleted – keep it civil. Mod.]
    
    1 4
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    December 29, 2020 5:00pm
- RJ
  
  This is the press release for your post
  
  http://www.pahousegop.com/News/18754/Latest-News/PA-Lawmakers-Numbers-Don’t-Add-Up,-Certification-of-Presidential-Results-Premature-and-In-Error
  
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  December 29, 2020 4:31pm
  - Monique Watson
    
    You Trump Diehards might want to apply some critical thinking beyond a bit of enthusiasm for propaganda pushed by websites that aren’t notable or trustworthy news sites. Trump Tweeted some GOP data analysis which misrepresented the data accessed. The total number of voters in Pennsylvania is nine million btw so regardless of what was added or subtracted questions should be asked with that in mind.
    
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    December 29, 2020 6:56pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Quite right, Monique.
      
      All anyone has to do, is click on this: https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/, then click on PA, down the LHS.
      
      Total number of voters in Pennsylvania: 6,938,383.
      
      1 1
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      December 29, 2020 9:40pm
- SB2
  
  Donald J. Trump
  
  @realDonaldTrump
  ·
  9h
  
  “Breaking News: In Pennsylvania there were 205,000 more votes than there were voters. This alone flips the state to President Trump.”
  
  Election officials have certified Joe Biden as the winner of the U.S. Presidential election
  
  61.6K
  
  113.1K
  
  358.5K
  
  Dean Browning
  
  @DeanBrowningPA
  ·
  9h
  
  Pennsylvania’s election was so corrupt.
  
  891
  
  380
  
  4.3K
  
  Replying to
  @DeanBrowningPA
  and
  @realDonaldTrump
  
  FACTS, not Trump’s FICTION
  https://electionreturns.pa.gov
  Pennsylvania
  over 18 population:
  9,358,833
  registered voters:
  9,011,495
  registered voters who voted:
  6,915,283
  registered voters who did NOT vote:
  2,096,212
  
  https://twitter.com/Bigkiddle/status/1343789119911165952
  
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  December 29, 2020 7:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Come on now you Poms, settle down.
https://notthebee.com/article/this-deepfake-video-of-the-queen-of-england-giving-her-annual-christmas-address-is-actually-really-funny?
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December 29, 2020 4:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How long until the commie schoolteachers go back to infecting the children? and not infecting this blog?
Fuck, this place is riddled with germs, but the germs have nowhere else to go.
They are marxist shitheads.
Btw, where is Jaspinda these holidays? In NZ?
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December 29, 2020 5:13pm
- Mike
  
  So many questions, Steve. Would you like some help to answer them?
  
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  December 29, 2020 5:16pm
- sooty
  
  Checking out the islands are up to scratch for CCP Virus free travel after she leaves the islands.
  
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  December 29, 2020 5:56pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  She’s holidaying on the Shore Steve and expects your call.
  
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  December 29, 2020 6:15pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Gold!
    
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    December 29, 2020 6:39pm
Monique Watson

One from DPF’s profession: Rasmussen the U.S. pollsters egging Pence on to ignore the votes from swing states. Invoking Stalin as a role model. Ugh.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/rasmussen-invokes-stalin-suggests-pence-overturn-electoral-votes/amp/
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December 29, 2020 5:32pm
- RJ
  
  Try taking google out of your links
  
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  December 29, 2020 6:18pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  If someone cheats while you’re playing tennis do you expect them to be awarded points?
  
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  December 29, 2020 6:33pm
MFD

You write as if Marxism is a bad thing. Marx had some wonderful words of advice and wisdom for us all:

[He] may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you: he really is an idiot.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.

There’s only two things you can start without a plan: a riot and a family, for everything else you need a plan.

I’d like to meet the person who invented sex and see what they’re working on now.

Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

I’m not a vegetarian, but I eat animals who are.
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December 29, 2020 5:48pm
info@cruzpro.com

“Fire breaks out in Waikeria Prison, staff negotiating with nine prisoners”

Someone please explain to me why prison staff have to negotiate with prisoners!

These days you have to do something really bad to be put into prison. Anything less than horrible only gets you home detention.

I presume that there are now rules that prisoners have rights and are required to be treated better than their victims.

I say, if they start a fire, let them put it out or suffer the results. Exercise yard fire… then exercise yard is no longer available until repaired (by the people who damaged it).

Peer pressure is a great motivator!
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December 29, 2020 6:28pm
lazza

Translations …

Waipukurau … “Stomach contents and disgorged entrails of defeated warrior prepared for hangi “…

Nahh ! ….just joshin juh … OK?

So have you bigots got any other doozie racist Maori bashing shock horror naming contributions? … just your childishly transparent pathetic attempts to derail the “two place names movement” .

Come on … Fess up rednecks.
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December 29, 2020 6:35pm
SB2

Breaking News!,

“Donald Trump ‘now suffering psychotic episode after finally realising he lost election’”

A former aide to US President Donald Trump has claimed he is “going through a psychotic episode” after finally realising he has lost the election to Joe Biden.

Ex-White House communications worker, Omarosa Manigault Newman told MSNBC she believes he’s finally come to terms with defeat but remains so disconnected from reality with his exit fast looming.

She says he is going through a “psychotic episode” and is concerned by his health.

“I think Donald Trump is going through a psychotic episode.

Advertise with NZME.
“I think that he has come to terms with his loss, but his arrogance, his ego, will not allow him to accept that he is not going to be president come January…”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/donald-trump-now-suffering-psychotic-episode-after-finally-realising-he-lost-election/AZSTPTH5S76ETJVXY4YTKBDE4U/

Hopefully, this will be a source of much frutiful excange of ideas tomorrow as Dr Sigmund Freud from the couch unravels Trump’s Psychoses.
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December 29, 2020 7:19pm
- graham
  
  Uh-huh.
  
  So Omarosa Onee Manigault Newman:
  
  – who lasted just eleven months before being fired in December 2017, for “money and integrity issues”, as well as “inappropriate use of company vehicles”
  – who has released tapes that she secretly recorded during her White House tenure
  – who worked in the office of Vice President Al Gore during the Clinton administration, and who Gore’s former office administrator called “the worst hire we ever made”
  – who the Commerce Department’s Undersecretary for Technology Administration, described as “unqualified and disruptive”
  – who came to public attention in 2004 after becoming a participant on the first season of “The Apprentice” (!!!)
  – who became known as the “woman America loved to hate” due to her confrontational persona
  – who in 2008 participated in Celebrity Apprentice and quickly became embroiled in a personal feud with fellow contestant Piers Morgan
  – who was eventually fired in the 10th episode, after serving as the project manager of the team that, according to Trump, suffered “the biggest slaughter in the history of The Apprentice”
  – who, in a 2015 Washington Post article, identified as a “die-hard” Hillary supporter
  
  … says she “thinks” Donald Trump is going through a psychotic episode (really? She’s an expert on psychotic episodes?). And we’re supposed to believe her.
  
  Slow news day??
  
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  December 29, 2020 9:14pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Good on you for banging those nails in. Not that he’d know it, not even garlic nor wooden stakes work with that one.
    
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    December 30, 2020 12:04am
lazza

The Trumpers will now be beavering away overnight to manufacture a “take” on this latest (“he’s certifiably mad) reveal.

Their sorry ragged justifications now for the Big T, cravenly, will attempt to justify their insane rants and their T support that have festered on KB for far too long.

Out Out Out and Be off with you … I say.

Now then we can maybe focus on keeping this useless lying NZ government to account .

Start with their criminal suppression until after !! the election … of the Simpson-Roche report on the ir corrupt handling of the pandemic.

Electoral fraud you want? … forget the USA and T, for here we have our own homegrown version of it ehh?
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December 29, 2020 8:54pm

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