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January 26, 2022 11:00am by David Farrar

NZ in a class of its own

This ad ran in the Listener.

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Comments (135)

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Thought Criminal

Can’t see it on my mobile. [fixed now]
11 0
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January 26, 2022 11:05am
stewmar

Great ad!
42 2
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January 26, 2022 11:09am
AJL

Ummmm… which Ad?

I’m not seeing anything. [fixed now]
6 1
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January 26, 2022 11:18am
- AJL
  
  Oh wait, can see it now after reload.
  
  8 0
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  January 26, 2022 11:33am
Lee C

Can’t see it.. [fixed now]
7 0
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January 26, 2022 11:20am
john1234

Me neither [fixed now]
3 1
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January 26, 2022 11:25am
Harriet

nice.

Noticed it’s not called Aotearoa.

NZ 100% Propaganda.
44 1
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January 26, 2022 11:28am
- pejhay
  
  It’s a weird list of countries. I see England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, as well as United Kingdom, but no Wales. Zaire, Korea, Swaziland, South Kosovo etc…?
  
  9 1
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  January 26, 2022 12:40pm
  - PaulL
    
    Yeah. Nice concept, execution could have done with a bit more attention to detail.
    
    12 1
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    January 26, 2022 12:50pm
  - spanish_tudor
    
    England and Wales are the same country (England is a kingdom, Wales is a subservient principality).
    
    3 3
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    January 26, 2022 4:14pm
Suze Wainwright

These types of things (including the Daily Mail article yesterday), really upset the mental health of lefties on social media. They should be banned.
56 4
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January 26, 2022 11:35am
- yossarian
  
  And some take pride in it
  
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  January 26, 2022 1:13pm
Harriet

New Zealanders never had any part in that decision making.

All the decisions were made by the advocates of ‘Aotearoa’.

ACT need to speak up more. 😎
53 3
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January 26, 2022 11:37am
- krazykiwi
  
  ACT will speak up more … after consulting their focus groups, being groups stuffed full of terrified people who have been continuously force-fed panic porn. Bugger libertarianism! Chase the centre! (as the left slips quietly into worship of quasi-totalitarianism)
  
  6 3
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  January 26, 2022 5:23pm
Cinematic

It’s a national disgrace. Never forget, never forgive.
50 4
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January 26, 2022 11:37am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Sheeple will forget all of this when Super Rugby Pacific starts and beer flows late into the night….
  
  13 8
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  January 26, 2022 12:14pm
  - yossarian
    
    Super Rugby? Played in Australia?
    
    5 1
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    January 26, 2022 1:14pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Very true but under the new new new rulest Super Rugby Pacific isn’t likely to last very long.
    
    If any team or team member passes through any location of interest then the team will be in self isolation for 10 days. If the partner of a team member gets covid the player will be in self isolation for 10 days (assuming they dont isolate with their partner in which case its 24 days).
    
    The tournament wont be able to function with teams in isolation all the time.
    
    The sheeple will get very upset when they cant sit at home and watch Rugby / cricket / favourate NZ based sport.
    
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    January 26, 2022 1:35pm
Man Among the Ruins

While important, isn’t the far more egregious and imminent issue the disgusting treatment of those who are already in the country, particularly the issue of cross-party support for policies that segregate society based only on individual exercise of civil liberties, acting in accordance with personal conscience, refusal to act on unjustifiable and arbitrary edicts, and the state punishment thereof?
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January 26, 2022 11:39am
- Nick R
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  No. No it isn’t. Everyone who is adversely affected by vaccine mandates etc is there by choice and can change their decision at any time. Their segregation is wholly voluntary and can be ended at no cost at any time by choosing to be vaccinated. So those people made their bed and can lie in it. They are not victims. By contrast, New Zealand citizens stuck overseas, or prevented from travelling to see family overseas etc, have no say in the matter at all. There is no choice you can make which will allow you to freely return to New Zealand.
  
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  January 26, 2022 12:02pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    “Everyone who is adversely affected by … etc is there by choice and can change their decision at any time. Their segregation is wholly voluntary and can be ended at no cost at any time by choosing to …”
    
    I imagine the pagans said something similar to the Christians before tossing them to the lions.
    
    55 8
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    January 26, 2022 12:18pm
    - Sean OConnor
      
      That’s pretty much what they said to Polycarp, yes.
      
      17 4
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      January 26, 2022 12:21pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Yes, that is such a dumb argument isn’t it? Submit to my unjust request or face the consequences I will impose. That is basically the same rationale for rape at gunpoint. How about we remove the unjust request, backed by force, and thus remove the abject consequences?
      
      The reason why “if you don’t want the adverse consequences, then simply submit” is used as an argument, albeit a poor one, is because it neglects to consider the most important proposition that is the first principle of the argument, i.e. that we have an inherent human right to refuse medical procedures.
      
      36 8
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      January 26, 2022 12:40pm
      - Nick R
        
        You seem to think that because one has a right to refuse medical treatment, you can exercise that right at any time without cost or consequence. That’s fantasy stuff. Rights don’t work like that. If they did, the Courts would have thrown out vaccine mandates long ago – they’ve had enough opportunities. But that hasn’t happened. On the other hand, I think there is a very good chance the High Court will rule the MIQ regime is illegal – in part because it makes almost no concessions to individual circumstances and also because it has never been obvious why people should not be able to isolate at home. Most local Covid cases do that and nobody has a problem with it.
        
        So I don’t think the two cases are even slightly alike. And I still have no sympathy for anyone who could have the vaccine and chooses not to.
        
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        January 26, 2022 1:10pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Nick R, what “medical treatment” do fit, healthy Covid-free people need in your unqualified, unmedical opinion? Unless you’re my GP, you aren’t privy to my private medical information and health status. You have no fucking idea if a Pfizer vaccine is suitable for me and what risks it poses to me or anyone else, only for yourself under the advice of your own GP. [don’t abuse others for no reason – Mod]. It’s beyond sick and terrifying you think this is entirely rational and should be completely uncontroversial in a supposedly modern, liberal, free society.
        
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        January 26, 2022 4:55pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        [Mod, noted and thanks for not deleting my entire comment.]
        
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        January 26, 2022 5:33pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    “Their segregation is wholly voluntary and can be ended at no cost at any time by choosing to be vaccinated”
    
    For a start, even people who are (currently) deemed “fully vaccinated” are adversely affected by the vaccination program, because their being (superficially) unaffected is contingent on continual compliance. So nobody is unaffected by vaccine passes and/or mandates: they are the “law” of the land in which we all live.
    
    No, their segregation is a direct result of government policy. It can only be ended by submission to a policy they obviously disagree with for sound reasons, which, by definition, is coercion. Their choice is downstream of the policy, so their having to make a choice necessarily is only a consequence of the policy.
    
    By your own logic, the people who are currently stuck overseas have “made their bed” by their own choice to be overseas, and so should “have to lie in it.” That is false too, because the problem fundamentally concerns the policy – get rid of the policy in both cases, and the consequences accruing to the individual in either case evaporate. The starting point is the policies, so get rid of the policies.
    
    31 6
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    January 26, 2022 12:20pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      So any policy that anyone finds inconvenient can be just thrown out? So you here will be no policies from anyone on anything – that may not work that well.
      
      1 2
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      January 26, 2022 8:59pm
  - H. Upmann
    
    NickR: Horseshit.
    
    26 5
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    January 26, 2022 12:26pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      That’s what the H stands for?
      
      1 3
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      January 26, 2022 8:56pm
  - Gus
    
    So Nick R, your position is:
    “it is your fault for not giving up your Human Rights”
    
    cool…. 😐
    
    I hope you still think that way when they come for a Human Right you care about (if any).
    
    31 6
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    January 26, 2022 12:42pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Even if Nick is currently considered vaxxed, he is still like any other New Zealander in that if he later on chooses to exercise his human and civil rights with respect to mandated boosters, then he will be punished for his disobedience. He is living under the same system as everyone else (i.e. his rights have been removed and replaced with contingent privileges based on arbitrary demands for compliance). I think this point is lost on most of those who have fallen in to line up to this point. They have to project into the future.
      
      24 6
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      January 26, 2022 12:51pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        So what? At least he has sufficient nouse to understand choices and consequences are not just for those pesky criminal classes.
        
        1 3
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        January 26, 2022 9:02pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Please reread what he wrote and try again.
      
      1 3
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      January 26, 2022 9:03pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Covid really has brought out the worst in people, as confirmed above.
    
    31 3
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    January 26, 2022 12:56pm
    - Bloody Dago
      
      All carefully rolled out by this government on instruction from the UN right from March 15th 2019 which was turning point for this country. This current government is way too dumb to dream this up and carry it out.
      
      10 4
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      January 26, 2022 3:02pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        March 15th. 2020 – not 2019
        
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        January 26, 2022 6:08pm
  - Oldmate
    
    I would have thought your point rational and reasonable enough… until today when I watched a healthy young colleague collapse an hour after the booster and get taken to hospital in an ambulance.
    
    I now definitely cannot get the vaccine. It’s definitely not a choice anymore.
    
    26 5
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    January 26, 2022 12:58pm
    - RoboRob
      
      My workmate has just been sick off work for 2 days after getting a booster. He commented that he probably would have had less illness from just getting Omicron.
      
      18 4
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      January 26, 2022 1:38pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Yep, Boosters seem to be hitting people harder with side effects.
        On a single weekend, two people told me about not being able to lift their arms (Never had that from a flu jab!).
        Then a person messaged they could not come to training, due to fever and chills, and needing to wrap up under a blanket.
        Then another friend of a wife told us how they were bed ridden, feverish, and felt like crap.
        
        When you add it all up, given my age and health profile – I will go with Omicron; given that symptoms which potentially appear are very mild. Not even on a flu level, and not getting into lungs.
        
        No booster for me, at this point.
        Hope it is all over by June, when my certificate expires.
        
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        January 27, 2022 10:56am
    - ISeeRed
      
      Pure coincidence, conspiracy theorist.
      
      1 6
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      January 26, 2022 6:39pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      He is he now?
      How did he react to the other shots?
      How many people do you know who have had the booster?
      
      1 1
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      January 26, 2022 9:07pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    NickR: sorry.. you missed the //
    If you didn’t then…
    Bill of Rights
    Nuremberg Code
    Freedom of Choice….
    
    (God give me strength)
    
    7 4
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    January 26, 2022 2:18pm
  - Taieri
    
    Their segregation is wholly voluntary and can be ended at no cost at any time by choosing to be vaccinated
    ————
    
    So, it’s not really a choice, is it?
    
    8 5
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    January 26, 2022 2:33pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Nick R you are perpetuating another piece of Jacinda misspeak. The old “we are not forcing you to undergo a medical treatment but you must realise there will be consequences.” Classic diversion.
    
    Read the Bill of Human Rights, it’s only 21 statements. As well as protecting the right to choose to undergo a medical treatment it also protects the right not to be discriminated against.
    
    Anybody using a vaccine passport is supporting a system of discrimination. Jacinda has publicly stated that she has created 2 classes of people.
    
    Additional discrimination comes into law on April 1st. No doubt you are happy that those without papers can be interned, be unable to travel, can be dismissed from their jobs. Those are just consequences of accepting discrimination.
    
    4 2
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    January 26, 2022 6:16pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      No court has seen it that way as he said. I think I’ll defer to that legal assessment than the resident hyperventilating conspiracists.
      
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      January 26, 2022 9:12pm
ronsegal

Brilliant. Surprised it wasn’t cancelled.
Perhaps the Listener’s new Australian owners aren’t quite such Cindy fawners.
52 2
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January 26, 2022 11:49am
- JJ56
  
  Remember it was the Listener that published the letter on Science and Mātauranga Māori that caused a breakdown amongst the great and the Good.
  
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  January 26, 2022 6:45pm
dave53

Interesting to note it is published by Michael Horton. I presume he is the same Michael Horton who used to own the NZ Herald.

I am delighted (and I presume so is he) that the NZ Listener agreed to publish such an advert, given how craven much of the media is when asked to publish paid adverts not supported by the Twitter mob (for example, those of the feminist group that found only one newspaper, the Otago Daily Times, willing to publish an advert that read: “Woman — adult human female.”

I also note that Michael Horton has form in this area: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/80208498/michael-hortons-ad-highlights-kiwis-struggles-to-get-australian-citizenship
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January 26, 2022 11:51am
Frank the tank

Don’t worry there’ll be an article posted on Newshub by either Zane Small, Dan Satherly or Monika Barton with a headline “Kiwis outraged by Listener ad” within 24 hours. The outraged will be taken from Neale Jones and Clint Smith’s Twatter followers.
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January 26, 2022 11:55am
- RoboRob
  
  Already seen it (couldn’t find the link)!
  
  There is also this one which is basically the same thing..
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/01/outraged-kiwis-react-to-dan-wootton-s-completely-incorrect-column-calling-ardern-s-crazy-covid-zero-policy-cruel.html
  
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  January 26, 2022 1:41pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Leading the World, once again….

Setting an example for others to follow.
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January 26, 2022 12:05pm
camtay

Will Labour be encouraging kiwis living overseas to vote in our next general election as much as they usually do I wonder?
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January 26, 2022 12:06pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  The overseas sheeple will happily vote Labour and Greens like they always do. Screw them. I am happy with Cindy not letting any of them come in.
  
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  January 26, 2022 12:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Doubt it. The wise ones are leaving the plantation – same as the Dems
  
  6 2
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  January 26, 2022 2:04pm
- Hometruth
  
  My daughter who lives in London tells me none of her friends can stand Jancida in fact hate would be a kind word.
  
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  January 26, 2022 2:07pm
plc

Does this constitute hate speech?
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January 26, 2022 12:09pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  May be. I will check with Mallard and let you know plc.
  
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  January 26, 2022 12:17pm
Sean OConnor

If National and co think they can ride MIQ to victory while offering 99% of Labour’s other COVID policies, they’re dreaming.
28 2
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January 26, 2022 12:20pm
- tavita
  
  Sean what would you propose if you were a National strategist? The people you need to win back are those former supporters who voted for Cindy because she was saving us from certain death – and also, for about a year, from all the restrictions etc that people in other countries were suffering. Attacking Labour’s COVID policy would open you up to all sorts of attack from the MSM. It would win applause from most on this blog but they are not going to vote Labour next time anyway.
  
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  January 26, 2022 12:54pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    I think that many many people would be very responsive to the idea of having their civil liberties and human rights returned, given that the narrative of Black Death 2.0 has been well and truly destroyed. Just a hunch, though. Nobody seems to be offering this most obvious proposition. The framework seems to be “OK, first principle: nobody is free anymore or has any agency. Given this axiom, how do we micromanage everyone’s lives better than Labour?” Fuck that. Anyone onboard with and supporting the ongoing tyranny should fall on their swords and get out of the way.
    
    Some people may not want to have, or be able to handle having, their freedom returned, but so what? Are you seriously suggesting that we live under submission to the state lest running on a platform of renewed freedom upsets the media? Get real! They can get stuffed as far as I’m concerned. This pathologically boot-licking attitude that we must first and always please the left and the media before all else and everyone else is just insane.
    
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    January 26, 2022 1:14pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      The problem you have there is that no matter how sincerely you believe and how vehemently you state all this freedom is dead mantra, at least 80% of voters are not experiencing any of this imagined loss. There’s a handful here, maybe a few of the vaccinated, followers of Tamaki, and a few overseas that travelled or decided they wanted to come back at the wrong time. Not going to scratch the surface of an election win if that’s your target.
      
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      January 26, 2022 9:27pm
  - Viva Christo Rey
    
    I would propose they support freedom to live our own lives. Because no party that supports the current nonsense will ever get my vote that is for sure.
    
    14 2
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    January 26, 2022 1:35pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Certainly the Gangs would support that.
      
      0 2
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      January 26, 2022 9:28pm
  - emmess
    
    Easy, I’d drop all restrictions
    Look at how well the Republicans are doing in the states
    
    8 1
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    January 26, 2022 1:50pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      With the Dems running scared and doing anything to stop it. Labour are in the same place
      
      7 3
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      January 26, 2022 2:07pm
      - Frank the tank
        
        Yep. Put restrictions and mask mandates in and then hop on your rich mate’s jet and have a well-earned break in Florida.
        
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        January 26, 2022 2:12pm
  - ronsegal
    
    Judging by the number of people walking the streets with masks on, it would certainly be politically unwise to ignore the fear factor.
    
    11 1
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    January 26, 2022 2:45pm
    - Ohm my
      
      I’ve just been through Wellington – it’s full of automatons dutifully masked up.
      
      10 4
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      January 26, 2022 3:37pm
  - unaha-closp
    
    Hi tavita, last election those former National supporters went to vote Labour because there was almost nothing to differentiate the two parties on Covid (the most important issue). And Cindy is a much more appealing person to vote for than the leader of National, so Labour won. Any current strategist who wants to persist with that formula, probably should not be working for National. Luxon is not a more appealing politician than Ardern.
    
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    January 26, 2022 5:06pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  I think the nominal opposition are hammering MIQ because it allows them to avoid the much more pressing issue, which is the destruction of civil liberties of those who are already in the country. I don’t really care about MIQ, because I’m not overseas. I’m certainly not voting for anyone who doesn’t have the balls to see, and act on, the obvious issues with myriad tyrannical impositions on the population.
  
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  January 26, 2022 1:03pm
  - Fight4NZ
    
    “I don’t really care about MIQ, because I’m not overseas.“
    So you will completely understand the 90+% who don’t really care about antivaxxers.
    Given the circumstances of some stranded vs some that have got through that is where I have sympathy and see the Omnishambles talent in this government.
    
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    January 26, 2022 9:37pm
Lucia Maria

Brilliant!

From a political perspective, I believe that the government doesn’t want hordes of NZ’ers coming in from overseas upsetting the carefully crafted and maintained narrative that we have going here.

For instance, very easy to get RATs & self-test at home, yet here it’s extremely difficult.
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January 26, 2022 12:22pm
Okahu

“The following countries ‘effectively’ ban their own citizens from returning to their own country.”

Why the qualifier? Do we or do we not ban our own citizens from NZ? If we were to unpack the conditions of that qualifier would we still stand alone in that list?

Has anybody left NZ in the last two years and got back in? If so, how ‘effective’ is this ban?

Is it even a ban? Does that word mean what I think or has it undergone some change that needs a right minded explanation?
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January 26, 2022 12:23pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Why the qualifier?
  
  Because if you are special…. an MP or an entertainer, or a sporting identity, then there seems to be no barriers to getting an MIQ spot.
  
  24 3
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  January 26, 2022 1:41pm
- RoboRob
  
  Yes its a ban. You can’t (there are ways around it) come in unless you enter a lottery and win. No other country prevents its citizens returning.
  
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  January 26, 2022 1:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No other Country has a socialist/communist Leader, oh wait a mo
    
    7 3
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    January 26, 2022 2:09pm
    - RoboRob
      
      Not what I said.
      
      3 1
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      January 26, 2022 2:16pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Apologies Robo. It was a reply to a comment that I can not now find.
        
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        January 26, 2022 3:31pm
cmm

Under oppressive regimes, it is the moral duty of the citizens to do what they can to bend the system and survive.

Stuff have shown their colours. Instead of being reporters they are now also doing Vichy work:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/127564805/stuff-sting-catches-businessman-making-fake-vaccine-passes

In 1940s France, stuff would have dobbed in people making false papers. For the Greater Good, of course.

Anyone with a PC can make a fake vaccine pass in seconds using easy to download tools from the www.

Of course these are not authenticated, so they won’t match when they scan, but that’s another matter.
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January 26, 2022 12:24pm
- tavita
  
  Only one place i have been to actually scans. Here anyway, most just have a glance.
  
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  January 26, 2022 12:41pm
  - PaulL
    
    And if it doesn’t match when it scans, do you think the minimum wage staff member at the door will say “you can’t come in” or say, “that’s weird, the scanner must not be working right, or maybe your pass is a bit blurry”?
    
    In my youth I used to get into bars with a very badly forged drivers license. You’d be surprised how little effort people go to in verifying things the govt forces them to check.
    
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    January 26, 2022 12:55pm
    - Lucia Maria
      
      Until Work Safe starts coming down on them. They are currently going after the business owners who are blatantly disregarding the draconian rules. But once all those businesses are dealt with, next will be those who look the other way. Dobbed in by the faithful, of course, who would like a way to do so anonymously as per an article published late last year.
      
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      January 26, 2022 1:37pm
  - alan
    
    I don’t have a mobile phone so carry a paper copy of my pass. Every time I’ve had it scanned it’s failed but they have all said it’s OK as they have sighted it.
    
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    January 26, 2022 1:33pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Legally it only has to be sighted.
      
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      January 26, 2022 2:50pm
      - Ohm my
        
        I did wonder if that was the case. My reading on it (MoH site) both scan and sight is used interchangeably without expressly stating Passes must be scanned. For those shops/takeaway coffee places/restaurants who have demanded they scan my Pass seem to me to be overly enforcing govt dictat. There’s clearly a lot of uncertainty and they’re erring on the side of caution to protect themselves from being dobbed in by officious authoritarians.
        
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        January 26, 2022 3:47pm
    - emmess
      
      [deleted by Mod, suggestion of law breaking]
      
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      January 26, 2022 10:06pm
Ultima

At last, some factual content in the Listener. Tbh i don’t read the Listener, used to buy it just for the TV guides.
8 1
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January 26, 2022 12:30pm
Lee C

… but what does Trevor Mallard think?.

A nation waits with bated breath.

Not a problem for Labour or Jacinda – won’t most of these flightless birds be ineligible to vote by the next election because they’ve been overseas for so long?
12 0
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January 26, 2022 12:32pm
- PaulL
  
  Only if you think there is any government system that actually matches arrival data with voting records – I’ve worked in government, I know how much paperwork you’d have to fill in to do data matching of that nature. It simply won’t exist.
  
  It’s an honesty system – you tick the box that says “I’ve been in NZ in the last 3 years” and you vote. And even Labour probably aren’t dumb enough to attempt to cross match those and disallow the votes – that’d just focus attention on how unjust it was, and how they’re disenfranchising people through no fault of their own.
  
  Any slightly detailed look at the process for overseas voting would leave most normal people quite concerned about the (lack of) security and verification. I did it when I was overseas a few years ago. My recollection is that I downloaded something from the internet, ticked boxes on it and signed it, scanned it back in, and e-mailed it somewhere. No way would they know who I was or when I was last in NZ – the only check they have is whether or not I’m on the electoral roll.
  
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  January 26, 2022 12:58pm
Fisiani2

Great advert. When will we waken up and get rid of this useless government?

My wife’s mother in Scotland is dying and she wants to travel ASAP but has a 7% chance of a faceless bureaucrat granting her an emergency MIQ slot. ie a 93% chance of being marooned indefinitely on the other side of the world. She is not a DJ however. Bastards!!!!!
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January 26, 2022 12:34pm
- PaulL
  
  I’d travel anyway. 70% likely MIQ will be gone within a month.
  
  This article (that I can’t read other than the headline) https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/scrapping-miq-for-overseas-arrivals-when-omicron-is-widespread-would-free-up-badly-needed-resource-dhb-report/JE2J7NN6N7MATQQX33L7VLSRRI/ “Scrapping MIQ for overseas arrivals would ‘free up badly-needed resource’: DHB report” is the start of the problem for the government. The DHBs don’t want to run MIQ any more, everyone hates it, if Omicron puts pressure on the health system it’s obvious to stop MIQ so as to free up people.
  
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  January 26, 2022 1:00pm
- RoboRob
  
  ‘Just’ fly to Australia (or other) via NZ and then refuse to go on with the AU leg of the journey. They legally have to give you an MIQ slot.
  
  Two issues.
  1. The cost of the unused flight
  2. A potential ($2000?) fine. It is noted that if one was to refuse to pay the fine it would go to court and it is quite likely the govt would loose. Thus it is unlikely the govt would chase the fine in the first place.
  
  8 1
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  January 26, 2022 1:48pm
  - RoboRob
    
    She could also go to AU and take a private boat to NZ. Probably the flight option is the best for her.
    
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    January 26, 2022 1:49pm
Inandout

With regards Listener funding they were on the tit in 2020.
‘The future of Stuff Ltd, the publisher of this website, is now more secure, following a management buyout and magazines like The Listener and North & South have returned from the dead’.
8 0
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January 26, 2022 12:35pm
- JJ56
  
  The Listener isn’t published by Stuff, it’s part of Are Media Ltd. Despite their straitened circumstances it is very unlikely Stuff would have gone anywhere near it.
  
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  January 26, 2022 6:54pm
Handyman

The simple test to see if a statement is racist ( or any …ist) is to substitute the offending group for another.

We know the biggest co-morbidity for covid is obesity, assuming age is not a co-morbidity.
Therefore obese people will almost certainly occupy more hospital resources, especially ICU beds, than others.
Now substitute diabetes for covid and obesity for non-vaxed. That is, a personal decision that could lead to health implications.

To gain access to shops, especially pie shops, people must have a BMI of less than 30. All Shops are required to install scales at entries and record weight of all who enter. Entry will be denied to all public facilities such as cinemas and planes.
Mass communication will reinforce that fat people are not part of the team; they are not us. Magazines will offer guidance. “how to talk to your fat uncle at Christmas”.
Employers must fire all fat people by 30 January to avoid a load on the hospital system. The health system is not staffed to cater for an outbreak of diabetes patients so any poor performance of the new health system will be due to unexpected diabetes cases.
19 2
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January 26, 2022 12:43pm
- David George
  
  Easy to do Handyman. Too easy.
  The system is already in place, your QR code can be loaded with your BMI data. Too high and there’ll be no KFC or coke or cookies for you.
  Paul Kingsorth:
  “Nothing will be the same after this, and it is not intended to be. If we don’t want the future to look like a QR code flickering across a human face forever, we are going to have to do something about it.”
  https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/the-vaccine-moment-part-one
  
  13 2
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  January 26, 2022 1:00pm
  - Viva Christo Rey
    
    That article really crystallised a lot of things that I had been thinking but had no put together completely. Especially about how the narrative does not make sense even on its own terms – the biggest of which is that the vaccines do not prevent spreading the virus so there is no point in the vaccine passport. I have to admit I found that article very frightening, he really lays it out there.
    
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    January 26, 2022 2:21pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      A perfect example of the damage spreading disinformation does.
      
      0 0
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      January 26, 2022 9:50pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Handy: ✅ x 100 ?
  
  4 2
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  January 26, 2022 2:54pm
Rusty

NZ will become the laughing stock of the world very shortly.

Little country at the bottom of the world with only 5 million people surrounded by water yet we have to be different than everyone else.

The govt wont let there own citizens back in unless they play a lotto game and get lucky.
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January 26, 2022 12:50pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Your rights, as guaranteed by the Powerball.
  
  11 1
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  January 26, 2022 1:00pm
- emmess
  
  We already are
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei199u3Bi3s&t=2s
  
  5 2
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  January 26, 2022 1:54pm
Alan Matt

Australia banned their citizens coming home too.
Not sure if that’s still the case.
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January 26, 2022 12:52pm
- RoboRob
  
  No longer the case, although some of the AU rules were very draconian too.
  
  6 0
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  January 26, 2022 1:50pm
- smttc
  
  No, they didn’t.
  
  The Australian government banned its citizens from leaving the country without a government exemption.
  
  Until recently, Australians could just arrive in Australia and were immediate placed in MIQ.
  
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  January 26, 2022 2:28pm
surfing

There are small groups of people hugely affected by this ban on returning to nz.

Eg, university students stuck in aus are not permitted to return to finish their studies. This is disastrous for them as they generally don’t have much money and how do they arrange accommodation if they don’t even know if they can enter the country … end of February was an arbitrary date to prevent people returning and could easily be extended. The government has given no guidance to those stuck in limbo.
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January 26, 2022 12:54pm
Tauhei Notts

Michael Horton nowadays runs a printing company in East Tamaki. It seems that he predicted the near demise of daily newspapers and his company specialises in printing community newspapers. He runs a very efficient outfit. The print time is set in concrete. An editor can electronically transmit the entire paper and within two hours the newsprint version will be ready for collection, all neatly bundled into bundles of 400 papers each.
Now, compare that to his old paper the Herald; several years ago they had the last race (10.30 p.m. start time) results from Friday’s night trots in their Saturday edition. Nowadays, with the monumental changes in printing technology, they cannot report a test cricket match that ended at 8.25 p.m., in their Saturday edition.
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January 26, 2022 12:58pm
Lee C

Meanwhile, this orchestrated assault on small businesses continues:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2022/01/covid-19-businesses-fear-worst-as-customer-numbers-plummet-under-red-traffic-light.html?fbclid=IwAR191U4-zoOrFAb55BGSX8KapMd0a9ElkDey-atdFnZIFi5kzEbmfhiWQdY

Thank God we have the National ‘Party of small business’ to stand up against these ideologues and their cynical nd relentless economic terrorism.

What’s that?

National are in on it as well?

Oh.
My bad.
22 1
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January 26, 2022 1:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yes, National are not even barking at the tyres
  
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  January 26, 2022 2:26pm
virtualmark

Look, I understand the sentiment of the ad. It’s an emotional appeal. But it’s also rather pointless.

Firstly, governments have quarantined possibly infectious arrivals since Biblical times. It’s a well understood and well proven public health step. You may not like it but it’s an effective tool in the toolkit.

Secondly, it’s legal. Even pre-Covid the Government had the legal powers to isolate residents and quarantine arrivals who might carry infectious diseases. Some of that law might be a little aged for today’s world, but I haven’t seen anyone seriously challenge it in court.

Thirdly, it’s been effective. Horton is welcome to list off lots of other countries, but the Government’s response is just going to be “And what’s been the Covid outcomes in those countries?”. This Government’s objective has been to minimise deaths from Covid. You can debate whether that’s been the right objective (I would debate it), but that is what they’ve chosen to prioritise and to be fair to them they’ve delivered that. So this ad is going to fall on deaf ears because their response will be “Sure, and Covid deaths here are only 1 person per 100,000 population … how’s it going in the US?”

Also, as others have noted, it’s not a particularly accurate list. Australia for example has had many of the same restrictions we have. Other countries like Taiwan have had similar versions too. But sure, that would complicate the emotional message.
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January 26, 2022 1:28pm
- ronsegal
  
  Immediate, extreme quarantine measures that temporarily cancelled the rights of NZ citizens to return home were only justified right at the start when what we were dealing with was largely unknown. Shortly after that all the stops should have been pulled out to ensure that essential right, effectively what defines citizenship, wasn’t violated. In the event there has been no serious attempt to do so, and that continues. One of the reasons why I find the particular characters in this Government so despicable, more so than any other Government that I’ve experienced over too many decades, irrespective of stripe. Diametrically opposite of ‘leave nobody behind’. Bastards.
  
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  January 26, 2022 2:58pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Nope.
    
    If your objective was to keep Covid out in order to minimise the number of NZ deaths – which has been the Government’s objective, right or wrong – then you have to quarantine every person coming into the country until you can reasonably say they are not infected.
    
    If, as you suggest, the Government had just dropped MIQ and opened the doors then logically it would have been just a matter of weeks before NZ had Covid throughout the community.
    
    And if, as others suggest, you told people to self-isolate instead of quarantining them then the reality is 95% of people would have complied but 5% wouldn’t. And so it would have been a matter of weeks or months before NZ had Covid throughout the community.
    
    MIQ is a logical part of meeting the Government’s objective. Yes it suspended the rights of citizens to free entry. But it protected the rights of other citizens to not be exposed to a communicable disease. Being in Government isn’t about making everybody happy, it’s about making the best worst decisions … which is the mindset that gets you to imposing MIQ.
    
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    January 26, 2022 5:21pm
Surely Knott

We had to have a vaccine passport to travel out of Auckland less than a month ago!?! Where was the national party’s outrage then. It’s comfortable to fight for the overseas kiwis because their vaccinated even if it doesn’t work and the positive miq cases at the fully vaccinated border are currently 709! 709 rare breakthrough infections.
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January 26, 2022 1:36pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  They consider the unvaxxed minority to be too small to have any political impact, so are happily ignoring them. Never mind, that many, many vaxxed are also incredibly unhappy about this situation. It looks like deliberate blindness, which makes sense in a mass formation.
  
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  January 26, 2022 1:43pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    National are hammering the last few remaining nails into their own coffin. More than any other time in this (or any other) nation’s history, opposition parties have an open goal vis a vis the draconian and tyrannical Labour administration, yet they refuse to take a shot. It appears as if they are fully on board with Labour, which is very suspicious in my estimation.
    
    Covid policy dissent is only going one way: UP. It will never decrease. Current long-term dissenters will never become supporters, and, as we are already seeing, the narrative is unsustainable, crumbling by the day, and so public opposition is steadily growing. The momentum will be inexorable.
    
    As the vaccines are proving wholly ineffective; as, relatedly, more and more boosters will be required to keep vaccination status “up to date” (the new euphemism for ongoing coerced compliance, and a clear signposting of what a future of continued public acquiescence holds); as the longer-term negative effects of the useless mRNA vaccinations accrue and cannot be denied, the current minority will inevitably become the disgruntled majority and will be loudly baying for political blood.
    
    They will attempt a face-saving about face, but, having gone along with the madness, National and ACT will be political toast at that point, along with their colleagues on the left. I will never forget nor forgive National’s or ACT’s lack of any real courage when they had undoubted justification and when it counted.
    
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    January 26, 2022 2:17pm
    - Lucia Maria
      
      Absolutely. They must be betting on Labour succeeding, which is looking less and less likely everyday.
      
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      January 26, 2022 3:25pm
  - Miritu
    
    Time for a new Brexit type one-issue party against mandates.
    
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    January 26, 2022 2:19pm
- virtualmark
  
  In reality many of the people arriving at the border for MIQ are not vaccinated.
  
  1 3
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  January 26, 2022 2:11pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Bollocks.
    To enter NZ now you need a vax pass.
    
    4 0
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    January 26, 2022 2:52pm
    - Alwynn
      
      No true.
      If you are a New Zealand citizen you do not need to be vaccinated.
      If you are not a New Zealand citizen you must have a vaccination pass.
      https://covid19.govt.nz/travel/international-travel-and-transit/proof-of-vaccination-for-travel-to-new-zealand/#:~:text=leave%20New%20Zealand-,Non%2DNZ%20citizens%20need%20proof%20of%20vaccination%20to%20travel%20to,when%20you%20book%20your%20voucher.
      
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      January 26, 2022 3:09pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Well over half of the Covid cases reported at the border are in unvaxxed people. (Many of them from India I understand)
      
      4 0
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      January 26, 2022 5:23pm
Lee C

Fellow Kiwibloggers you all seem like reasonably sensible intelligent people.
I urge you to listne to this for just the first four or five minutes.
It’s Sue Grey, doing Her Majesy’s Opposition’s job.

Just listen to teh Government department’s response.
https://www.facebook.com/sue.grey.9469/videos/4956868354358534/?notif_id=1643154517736116&notif_t=live_video&ref=notif

And ask yourself What the actul f**k is going on here?
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January 26, 2022 2:06pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  Really good questions, there.
  
  I note that effective opposition is being taken out with personal attacks as well. So, rather having the energy to keep going, the person has to divert a lot to defending themselves.
  
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  January 26, 2022 3:27pm
- Fight4NZ
  
  Wow. You don’t get much more paradoxical than putting “sensible intelligent people “ and Sue Grey together!!
  
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  January 26, 2022 9:59pm
RRM

I like it!

But I’m left wondering- did he actually independently check out the situation for citizens of all of those other countries?
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January 26, 2022 2:12pm
Mobile Michael

Dr Verrall has just said at her 2pm press conference that when case numbers rise the Government systems won’t cope, so they will focus on essential workers who are at risk.

WTF have they been doing for the two years since they knew this would eventually happen in New Zealand.

More like Omni(cron)shambles, because this Government thought once eliminated, always eliminated.
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January 26, 2022 2:21pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  LOL, a couple of days ago they were saying their systems could cope with 50,000 cases per day! Hootton was questioning the validity of that claim in a podcast on Monday night and then on twitter.
  
  I wrote up a rough estimate of the numbers as well. Maybe, some people in government did a quick recalculation?
  
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  January 26, 2022 3:30pm
- virtualmark
  
  The Government never thought once eliminated always eliminated.
  
  The goal of elimination was simply to buy time. Time for vaccinations, better treatments etc. I think they could have used that time better, but they did what they did.
  
  Now the marginal benefit of “more time” is far less than the cost, so elimination has been quietly dropped. I suspect they won’t make a big deal of dropping it, because there’s still a lot of “Covid zero” voters out there that they won’t want to spook.
  
  But I also suspect the Government is not unhappy to have Omicron pass through in Feb/Mar rather than in winter.
  
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  January 26, 2022 5:26pm
  - Taieri
    
    The goal of elimination was simply to buy time. Time for vaccinations, better treatments etc.
    ————–
    
    Hence the rush to purchase the vaccine?
    
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    January 26, 2022 10:27pm
Tasman devil

Being unique is not always a virtue.
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January 26, 2022 4:46pm
SmokerGuy

Maybe overseas voters will vote for substance over style next time.
3 0
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January 26, 2022 5:02pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  I want to know what you are smokin….
  
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  January 26, 2022 5:21pm
gump

It’s so strange to see DPF posting material which undermines the National Party leadership.

National has literally put out statements saying that it agrees that it was necessary to pause MIQ to prepare the country for Omicron.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/01/covid-19-omicron-national-drops-now-from-end-miq-petition-home-isolation-pause-justified.html
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January 26, 2022 8:06pm

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