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December 21, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 December 2023

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Vinicius

Another government project has ground to a halt.

RNZ reports:
• A $150 million government IT project has gone so badly off track it has been called to a halt.

• The Department of Internal Affairs yesterday admitted to RNZ it has called a stop to the huge project that had aimed to take all births, deaths and marriages data online in the cloud.

• It has terminated contractors, and employees’ jobs may be on the line, too.

As the news item correctly says public agencies have a poor record of delivering IT projects.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505234/government-births-deaths-and-marriages-it-project-halted
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December 21, 2023 8:02am
- JerJer
  
  How hard could that even be. I deliver very complex IT projects, and this one sounds like something you could give a kid for a school project.
  
  150m bucks. Someone is having a laugh.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:39am
  - Local Miller
    
    I have to agree with JJ. As a Database Consultant, moving databases into the cloud is bread and butter stuff now days, certainly not a $150M project.
    
    And how much are they paying these consultants? I’ve got ~30 years experience and I’m one of the top people in my field in NZ, and I get charged out at about $195/hour + GST (not that I get all of this)
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:56am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Local
      I think that government bureaucrats see the project estimates as a trophy.
      The bigger the better, and the bragging rights are the icing on the cake.
      
      On the other hand, that is the system they are embedded in. There is no real incentive to get a good deal or to reconfigure priorities and parameters.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:11pm
  - bennerg
    
    Also agree JerJer. Someone is taking us for a ride.
    
    While not something I would give to a school kid, this is not complex stuff – unlike payroll that for teachers had a huge number of wrinkles to deal with.
    
    This is bread and butter stuff, and anyone with experience in the field would handle this easily.
    
    The only challenge would be the plethora of pronouns used these days, and people changing Gender on their Birth Certificates. However a day and a half would solve that.
    
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    December 21, 2023 10:22am
  - rouppe
    
    Just read a bye line on that story
    
    RNZ understands multiple Department of Internal Affairs deadlines have been missed after officials tried to buy an off-the-shelf system and customise it.
    
    There you have it. Some SLT or ELT was convinced to buy Salesforce or similar and that “out of the box” functionality would deliver 90%. As in every other example I’ve seen of this, it’s a cluster. And then managers want “little tweaks”.
    
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    December 21, 2023 12:25pm
    - artemisia
      
      Yep, customising an off the shelf product encourages every T, D and H to come up with a wish list, even if it is only to show they are part of the team. And keep themselves employed managing changes because they are the only ones that still know how it works. So they say anyway.
      
      Scope creep becomes inevitable when the bosses don’t know how to judge proposed changes, and say no.
      
      Changing local processes to match the (industry standard) offering can often be quite trivial, but seldom considered. And suppliers won’t say so, because it’s their ongoing income stream.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:04pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Roupe
      You have hit nail on the head.
      Managers wanting tweaks.
      Its a problem when more than 3 people(IMHO) are on the committee making decisions.
      
      In a previous life I was involved in International IT projects.
      I well remember a meeting in the UK with 23 International representatives(country techo Marketing managers) being briefed on a new business package.
      One rep stood up and said that in his country he need a particular feature to make the package usable.
      Immediately another Representative(I think USA) jumped up and said that if that particular feature was included it would make the product unusable in the USA!!
      
      Now, replace countries in my story to “teams” in a gazillion Governments departments and softcock project managers and yep easy to get to $150 mill in extra change costs.
      
      Compared to another International IT challenge in Canada (early days data communications).
      3 people making final decisions.
      Me in Canada(user techo input), A Welshman in UK (techo/developer team) and a POM(financials/costings).
      Project delivered ahead of time and under budget…
      
      Ever since have been a super fan of small decision teams. Senior executives get to sign off the original plan, then are banned from any other decision making. Project is set in concrete,
      
      Governments need to appoint hard nosed project managers WITH EXPERIENCE. Give them full authority and then stand well clear, banning ALL politicians from getting their opinions heard.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:48pm
      - kevn
        
        I am in awe of all these previous posters. There is so much talent that posts on KB.
        
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        December 21, 2023 8:28pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Not a SAP product by any chance?
      
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      December 21, 2023 8:25pm
    - Humai
      
      Yup – bang-on Rouppe! Another classic example of “but we do things differently so we need to customise because we’re so unique”.
      
      I’ve been involved in several transformational programmes in NZ for less than a tenth of the price these chumps are paying.
      
      What NZ Inc. lacks is strong governance at the board level – someone who has come from a complex system implementation background who can ask the difficult questions of the CIO and CEO.
      
      $150M for a relatively low volume, low volatility, straight-forward task such as connecting authenticated punters to relevant BDM info is an outrage.
      
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      December 21, 2023 9:24pm
- peterwn
  
  Perhaps Internal Affairs got in first before Nicola put the boot in.
  Perhaps too they accidentally awarded it to the Australian company BWS instead of DWS.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:04am
- Vinicius
  
  There is more about the Te Ara Manaaki program that this project is a part of here.
  
  https://www.reseller.co.nz/article/706393/cost-pressures-partner-cadence-challenge-dia-massive-te-ara-manaaki-program/
  
  The Treasury concluded, “A gateway review highlighted challenges to the delivery of the Department of Internal Affairs’ massive Te Ara Manaaki program.”
  
  I retired 12 months ago as an IT Manager for a global project management organisation that is in NZ and can only shake my head at the last government’s incompetence in managing its own projects and programs.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:27am
  - rangitoto
    
    I used to work for a company that had a lot of point to point VPNs to many other companies plus a few government departments. An auditor recommended strengthening the cryptography used on some of the VPNs which had been set up several years earlier using less than state of the art settings. No problem organising this with the private companies but the Government departments were mind boggling. In one case they set up an online meeting with twenty of their staff plus me to discuss. It turned out that none of the department people on the call had a clue what it was about and they had to call in someone else. I can easily see why our tax money doesn’t go far.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:34am
- rangitoto
  
  Sounds like a trivial project as far as IT projects go.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:16am
- Handyman
  
  The reason is that New Zealand is the only country in the world that has births deaths and marriages, and is further complicated by its massive population.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:20am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Handyman exactly it’s those pesky unique New Zealand conditions again.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:52am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Maybe the two classes of citizens is the problem !
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:24pm
Chuck Bird

This is not premium. Thumbs up if you think men should not be allowed to compete against women and invade women’s spaces. Thumbs down if you think they should.

Transgender athletes banned from all publicly funded women’s sport under new Government policy

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/governments-tough-stance-on-transgender-sports-sparks-controversy/SUOGZO7QZBEJJDD267U4K7DXVA/
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December 21, 2023 8:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good to see.
  
  The apologists for biological men in women’s sports are ignorant of the performance differences between men and women.
  
  Riley Gaines is a female College swimmer in the United States. She was USA champion one year and consistently in the top 10 in College swimming. She is now retired and has been campaigning on this issue for the last two years.
  
  She gives the example of her husband. He is a competitive swimmer but very average. He competes at local club level. He would not be in the top 5,000 male swimmers in the USA. Yet when they race for fun, he apparently beats her by several lengths without much effort.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:18am
  - Swifty
    
    What really stuns me is the position taken by our own HRC. For years now they’ve taken a militant pro-trans position and have cursed and labelled anyone or any sports body which has the temerity to argue against their position. I’ve followed this quite closely.
    
    To me this is a classic case of competing human rights claims. On one hand the ‘human right’ of trans people to compete in sports against people of their claimed gender versus the human right of, usually, women to not be forced to compete against biological men.
    
    But the HRC, in anything I’ve seen from them, hasn’t even recognised this dilemma – I’ve seen absolutely nothing from them recognising the competing human rights of biological women. It’s just been all pro-trans and damn all those who oppose them.
    
    This is one of the many reasons why I now believe the HRC has become just a hotbed for activists and should be closed down. They’ve lost all sense of balance.
    
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    December 21, 2023 8:26am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Simples. The HRC is run by neo-Marxists who see trans people as more “oppressed” than regular biological women.
      
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      December 21, 2023 9:36am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Extreme leftie Marama Davidson worked at the HRC for 9 years. Organisationally the centre is out of sight over the horizon from the place they occupy.
        
        Shut it down. It’s irredeemable.
        
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        December 21, 2023 11:14am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        It’s amazing how an ideology that has oppressed and murdered more people than any other in the history of the world presents itself as the champion of the oppressed and comes up with the current victim Olympics. More perplexing is how anyone falls for it time after time.
        
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        December 21, 2023 11:56am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Isn’t it ironic that the HRC are as detrimental to human rights as waka kotahi is detrimental to transport
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:28pm
      - Taieri
        
        Extreme leftie Marama Davidson worked at the HRC for 9 years
        ————–
        
        Worked? Are you saying that Davidson is actually capable of working?
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:36pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      In the grand scheme of critical theory the rights of males will always trump those of females.
      
      (Just look at the dudes who came up with and pushed this dopey theory)
      
      A trans female will have “suffered” so much more than a cis female and so equity must be enforced.
      
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      December 21, 2023 10:00am
      - Colinxy
        
        There can be little doubt that the idiot that dreamed up Critical Theory was male (Max Horkheimer, Neo Marxist and former director of the Frankfurt School), the “Theory” has progressed a lot by those without dangly bits.
        
        Hardly exhaustive:
        
        Angela Davis (a Herbert Marcuse protege and he was also a Neo Marxist and former director of the Frankfurt School). A Jim Jones (People’s Temple) supporter, co-founder of Critical Resistance, Critical Feminist and all-round violent woman (but “peaceful”).
        
        The Combahee River Collective – Black Lesbian feminists and Marxists; proto-Critical Race Theorists and Critical Feminists.
        
        Kimberle Crenshaw – Critical Legal Studies, Critical Race Theorist, Critical Feminist, Critical Queer Theorist and principle architect of what is called ‘Woke’.
        
        Barbara Applebaum and Robin DiAngelo – Critical White Studies, a sub-category of Critical Race Theory.
        
        Gayle Rubin – proto-Critical Queer Theorist.
        
        Judith Butler – Critical Queer Theorist.
        
        There are plenty more. The above are all highly influential on the development of Critical Theory and moving the Hegelian-Marxist dialectic.
        
        If Marx and his acolytes get their way, there won’t be any distinctions – no division of labour for example. We’ll all be one giant amorphous blob, unable to think any thoughts except communism (otherwise contradictions will still occur and that would mean we hadn’t arrived at the end of history/communist rainbow).
        
        As such, it technically doesn’t favour males over females since that would still infer contradictions still existing. Of course, as anyone observant of history can attest, utopias are just dystopias whenever tried – well, to those without such cognitive dissonance at any rate.
        
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        December 21, 2023 12:18pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Well that probably explains why so many of our lefty and Green female MPs said nothing when young females were sexually abused at a Labour youth camp and when old folk were violently thumped by men at the Posy Parker rally.
        
        The poor dears are so conflicted about “rights”, that they can’t see the bleeding obvious.
        
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        December 21, 2023 12:42pm
      - Colinxy
        
        That attitude is laid out by Herbert Marcuse in Repressive Tolerance.
        
        Violence, terrorism, murder, arson et al must be tolerated on the Left. On the Left, violence is tolerance.
        
        Those on the right must be censored and even pre-censored. For the Right, speech is violence (according to the Left).
        
        And of course, Herbert Marcuse states that the saying “The end justify the means” is wrong, unless it is the Left doing it (paraphrased).
        
        So yes, that would break “Solidarity brother, I mean sister”.
        
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        December 21, 2023 1:43pm
    - kowtow
      
      HRC ; Hamas Rights Commission.
      
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      December 21, 2023 10:57am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Benedictyu they are not ignorant of the differences between men and women it’s ignored because it interferes with the ideology.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:48am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yes Stella,
      The aim is to diminish ones sexuality and then diminish our humanity.
      They want an asexual, compliant, ignorant population
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:45pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Sadly those apologists include “feminists” like this one who got beaten into third place in an Illinois Cyclocross race, but wasn’t interested in backing Gaines’s criticism of that result:
    
    “We refuse to be falsely presented as victims in a manufactured controversy driven to further alienate and marginalize those most vulnerable within our community, in service of rampant and harmful anti-LGBTQ+ legislation,” the letter read, according to NBC. “We speak for ourselves: inclusion makes our sport and community stronger. Everyone is welcome here. Trans women are women.”
    
    Incredible. As the saying goes, what message is being sent to young girls who like sport: bust your butt in training for years only to be beaten by men pretending to be women just for their own pride and ego in finally winning something? What little girl would want to commit and sacrifice just so she can then be forced to be silent or even support those who cheat to beat her? What parents would commit to supporting her in her quest?
    
    A lot of womans’ sports won’t survive this.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:51am
    - Local Miller
      
      You’ve got to watch Lady Ballers
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py2MzGtmaJ0
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:52pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        I’d have laughed twenty years ago but I think this is now beyond satire. 🙂
        
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        December 21, 2023 5:14pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Some tough presentations to Congress by female athletes recently:
    
    “There are extreme differences in the biology of men and women. I’ve experienced it as an athlete and a coach and a parent. As an athlete, I chose to play co-ed field hockey as an adult. My worst injury I’ve ever had came from that. A man fell on top of me…I’m 5’4’, maybe 120 pounds soaking wet…when he fell on me, two of my ribs popped off of my sternum,”
    
    And once you’ve violated one thing it makes it easier to violate the next:
    
    “Oberlin College removed me from coaching women’s lacrosse after I chose to publicly tell my story and refused to be silent or back down about my belief that men—no matter how they self-identify—should not be allowed to compete in women’s sporting events,” Russell said. “Oberlin, like many higher-level institutions today, only seems to support the First Amendment if your values align with theirs.”
    
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    December 21, 2023 1:54pm
- igm
  
  These perverts best fund their own . . . not ruin sports ambitions of decent people.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:27am
  - ISeeRed
    
    That’s what I don’t get. If the “trans experience” is so unique, they/themselfs can organise and fund their own activities and events.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:23pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      ISee,
      Because no one will pay to watch it.
      Same with the womens soccer world cup.
      My mate works with the Phoenix womens team . Women don’t turn up to watch.
      They all want their moments in the limelight but they want straight guys to pay for it.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:52pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  No Brainer really…
  
  On the one hand you have the exclusion of a very small percentage of athletes who claim to be women, and on the other hand you face the destruction of all elite women’s sport.
  
  When we seperate sport into Male and female categories, it is done for biological reasons, and not for identity reasons.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:30am
- Matt Long
  
  I notice that Chris Bishop is quoted as uncomfortable with the policy, and distances himself and National from it, placing in squarely on NZF.
  Uptick if you think National is led by wets, downtick if you’re deluded about it.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:39am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Well Chris Bishop is ignorant of the facts about the physiology of men and women.
    
    Lia Thomas, the ‘trans female’ USA swimmer caused havoc.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Thomas#:~:text=In%20the%202021%E2%80%932022%20season,eighth%20in%20the%201650%20freestyle.
    
    As a male swimmer, he was ranked #500 in the 500 yards freestyle. As a trans woman he was ranked #1, beating the women by several lengths.
    He also wrecked lives. Some of the women he beat lost out on swimming scholarships. Such sporting scholarships are a big deal in the USA as a means of funding college attendance.
    
    https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/lia-thomas-saga-with-ncaa-championships-now-here-betrayal-of-female-athletes-continues/
    
    Chris Bishop is dead wrong.
    
    EDIT:
    
    This is not “trans phobia”. It is quite simply an issue of fairness. I don’t care what adults do with their bodies. I also agree that trans people should, of course, be treated with respect. However, I have two bottom lines:
    
    – No biological men in women’s sports
    
    – no medical or surgical treatment of children to enable them to change gender. (That is a whole other issue, which I will refrain from going into here.)
    
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    December 21, 2023 8:54am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      I don’t think he’s ignorant. This is one of those nasty “Culture War issues imported from the Right Wing in the USA” – and National wants nothing to do with such scary things.
      
      “Unlike the Republicans, the National Party does not do culture wars. The reason being that National is not nearly as uniformly conservative as the contemporary Republicans.” – Wayne Mapp
      
      See also his key claim:
      
      You are right. There were (and are) a substantial number of National MP’s who would have similar views to myself.
      
      Actually the real reason is that they’re terrified of getting caught up in arguments like this because they know the MSM-Left complex in this country will win the resulting social propaganda fights. See Mueller three years ago hiding his US election trinkets after Tova spotted a dreaded MAGA hat among them.
      
      So instead the rationalised claim is that there are bigger fish to fry and all that – spending cuts and tax cuts for example. Those will see NZ society in good shape for the future.
      
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      December 21, 2023 9:00am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        However I don’t think trans women should compete in elite women’s sport for the reasons well set out by Benedict.
        
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        December 21, 2023 9:53am
      - Ghost
        
        Your constant attacks on Wayne are getting boring. You are sounding like an obsessed person whose advances he turned down.
        
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        December 21, 2023 9:56am
      - Notsofast
        
        Wayne Mapp:
        This seemingly benign inclusion of males in non elite female sport is in fact one of the dominos that topples on the path to “transing away the gay”.
        New Zealand has, or is, currently sterilizing a minimum of 500 New Zealand youth who would have grown up to be same sex attracted. This is an agreed fact among scholars such as Helen Joyce.
        
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        December 21, 2023 10:23am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “However I don’t think trans women should compete in elite women’s sport for the reasons well set out by Benedict”
        
        And why don’t those same reasons apply to the girls’ First XIV at Fred Dagg Memorial High School? Or at local and regional swimming events? None of that is “elite” yet the biological girls and women don’t stand a chance.
        
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        December 21, 2023 12:17pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Seems just as nuts for them to compete in non elite sport against bio wimmin as well. Why even go there??? Traditional trans people seem to get it. It’s just the new hyper-woke vanguard going nuts and being fascists. There is probably some evil regime behind this, deliberately targeting impressionable young people to destabilise the west methinks.
        
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        December 21, 2023 10:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        That’s the problem and some don’t realise it. There is a side of the trans that don’t want anything to do with these disrupters, they just want to live their life, be who they are. The disrupters, they don’t care about trans, they don’t care about gay, they are there to disrupt, and you are right it is vile and evil regime that has a deep reach that most don’t see
        
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        December 21, 2023 10:49pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      To be fair, Bishop was wrong about vaccines too. He’s not that bright apparently.
      
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      December 21, 2023 9:13am
      - Greenheart
        
        CM How about cutting out the personal attacks. Putting forward reasoned unemotional comments are far more effective.
        
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        December 21, 2023 9:41am
      - cmm
        
        Greenheart: Unemotionally, “Get boosted” Bishop was completely wrong about vaccines.
        
        It would seem that if anyone is being emotional here it is you – jumping in because someone says something about a Nat.
        
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        December 21, 2023 11:17am
      - coge
        
        The majority of National MP’s revealed themselves to be authoritarian oafs during the COVID years.
        
        The usefulness of them doing that, is we now know which ones to watch very carefully. Throughout the remainder of their political careers.
        
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        December 21, 2023 7:00pm
  - JerJer
    
    This is excellent news. I wonder if there will be protests, I hope so.
    
    NZ First will go up further in the polls.
    
    I love how they have done it, trannies can still compete in women’s sport, but, that sport gets defunded if they do. That’s priceless. A few years ago, speaking out against it got you defunded, and cancelled. Now it’s the reverse.
    
    Let’s see how the left deal with this.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:16am
    - JerJer
      
      Oooh. A downtick. Hope you have your best dress all dry cleaned for the protest brother.
      
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      December 21, 2023 9:49am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The ESG fascist shadow govt still pulls strings though.
      That also needs to be given the arse in NZ.
      
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      December 21, 2023 8:54pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes the Nats front bench is rather damp, though as I said yesterday I’m pleasantly surprised by Erica Stanford’s appointment of Elizabeth Rata as an educational advisor. So I think there’s still hope.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:18am
  - Raphael
    
    Yeah, I don’t rate Bishop or Willis that highly as I find both would be very comfortable in the Labour Party from Clark’s era (modern Labour has drifted too far Left)
    
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    December 21, 2023 10:39am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “…distances himself and National from it, placing in squarely on NZF.”
    
    Good. Let him distance himself, and National. NZF and ACT will reap the rewards and cement their positions as necessary coalition partners going forward.
    
    You know, folks, I think MMP is finally working as intended.
    
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    December 21, 2023 12:21pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    My reading is the reporter concluded Chris Bishop was uncomfortable, but it wasn’t a quote.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:27pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Deep,
      Pertinent point!
      
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      December 21, 2023 3:00pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Sport is separated because of hard biological sex differences eg size, muscle mass, pelvic shape, hormone levels.
  
  Not gender which is social construct (eg social stereotype) differences and has no bearing on your sport performance.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:43am
- wsk12345
  
  I do an amateur sport where there is one trans woman – it’s a sport where it makes a huge difference that she is a bloke. We all thought she was a woman (odd looking but it takes all sorts and he/she is totally accepted as a woman, even going away on woman’s training weekends, in fact I don’t know how many in that community even know she is a genetic male). We used to admire her fearlessness and athleticism, the fact that she was so much better than the rest of us in these areas particularly, then one day I found out she was a bloke and all the pieces fell into place.
  
  She only competes in really low key events and doesn’t push hard, probably bc she knows how unfair that would be.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:47am
  - Don Beckett
    
    ” I found out she was a bloke and all the pieces fell into place.”
    So he/she still has all his/her pieces then ? 😆
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:18am
- Notsofast
  
  NZME has the rainbow tick, which guarantees inaccurate reporting of the news, for example gendering Ashley Winter as a woman. Check his body of work. This further allows this reporter to describe the fairness in sport move to be separatist:
  
  “Pressed on whether sporting bodies that objected to the separatist policy would find their funding frozen…..”
  
  The use of the term is clearly designed to be perjorative in this report, so deliberately maligns the 60 to 70% of New Zealanders who explicitly support the NZ First policy as informed by the recent Talbot Mills poll. It is time the kids at the Herald get an education in place of an indoctrination.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:01am
- Clown
  
  Wait a sec. Weren’t all the hardcore feminists screeching for years that ‘gender is a social construct’ and ‘women can do everything as good as men? I can’t help but laugh now that they are facing real consequences for their BS. For the record I’m against transgenders participating in women’s sport as well – I just find it funny how feminists want privilege without accountability.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:52am
  - Colinxy
    
    Yes, the Hegelian-Marxist dialectic change is now crushing them. Germaine Greer, JK Rowling etc are now all evil.
    
    The dialectic also means from their perspective that those radical feminists are “right-wing” now…as the dialectic only revolves Leftwards; hence the “TERF” wars still ongoing.
    
    Those feminists made the mistake of believing the dialectic stopped with them. It does not.
    
    And if you think the current Left cannot get any crazier, you will be wrong. Their operating model (the Hegelian-Marxist dialectic) is perpetual revolutions that only move Leftwards. As some modern Platonists pointed out, the fundamental flaw in Hegel’s dialectic is it cannot remove reductio ad absurdum.
    
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    December 21, 2023 12:28pm
- Bullion
  
  Everyone here talking about elite/competitive level of sports when this policy is targeted at social sport, your weekend warriors. At this level it’s cruel to blackmail sporting bodies to exclude trans from participating.
  
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  December 21, 2023 4:19pm
  - Ghost
    
    No it’s not, it’s cruel to include trans members in sports against females denying girls the chance to excel at their sport.
    
    One perfect example is the trans teen in the USA winning the girls cross country championships
    
    No where is that fair for the girls running to have to compete against a biological boy in their chosen sport, and it is leading to many girls giving up sport knowing they cannot compete against these boys
    
    Article
    
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    December 21, 2023 4:50pm
cas

OMG I’ve just read about a case where a judge granted a 30% discount for a guilty plea and remorse but NO discount for the cultural report. Is that a first?
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December 21, 2023 8:14am
- Flossie
  
  Maybe it was the wrong culture?
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:23am
  - cas
    
    Judging by the name it was the culture you would expect to be discounted.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:44am
artemisia

Piripi Walker, chair of Nga Kaiwhakapūmau i Te Reo Māori, says changing the order of some organisation names is illegal. And will lead to a divided society.

Question – will a challenge head to the courts, on what basis, and who will pay the costs? Minister Shane Jones might have a view about that.
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December 21, 2023 8:15am
Don Beckett

” Thumbs down if you think they should.”

Looks like we’ve got 1 pervert amongst us.
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December 21, 2023 8:17am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Two now!
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:28am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And now that ‘ROSS’ has logged in…that will be the 3 😀
    
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    December 21, 2023 8:35am
- Benedict Yu
  
  With respect, I do not think it is helpful to use the word “pervert” in this context. It simply fuels the allegation that people who oppose men competing in women’s sports are “transphobic”. IMO the only consideration is that of fairness.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:07am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes, it’s a bit like the woke branding every critic of radical identity politics a “racist” or “transphobe”.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:21am
G152

So liebor didnt mind the 90 day employment trial for firms with 20 or less employees but go stark raving nuts when the current government wants to and will extend it to all firms.
If it wasn’t so pitiful it would be a good line for a comedian
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December 21, 2023 8:20am
Benedict Yu

South West Airlines now has a “customer of size” policy. Fat customers get an extra seat for free. 😳

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12859595/southwest-airlines-obese-passengers-free-seats.html

I’m not sure this provides correct incentives. 🙁 You don’t even get a free cookie on Southwest. Yet fat people get two seats. 🤡
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December 21, 2023 8:20am
- Blog-aholic
  
  They’re not fat people. They prefer to be called people of size………//
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:24am
  - Ra Henare
    
    THey can prefer anything they like…seems their food likes is a long and abundant list.
    
    Fat is Fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Reminds me of the appropriation of the word Gay.
    From happy to homosexual to the latest
    
    a new, pejorative use became prevalent in some parts of the world. Among younger speakers, the word has a meaning ranging from derision (e.g., equivalent to ‘rubbish’ or ‘stupid’) to a light-hearted mockery or ridicule (e.g., equivalent to ‘weak’, ‘unmanly’, or ‘lame’).
    
    Or the other irritant to me anyway.
    
    He/she passed.
    NO
    He/She died.
    
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    December 21, 2023 3:07pm
- Flossie
  
  Nothing is free – somebody is paying. In this case it will be the other passengers.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:24am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  While skinny/regular sized customers still have to pay extra for overweight luggage.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:27am
- peterwn
  
  Airline does not want to run foul of discrimination laws.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:45am
  - Ra Henare
    
    What discrimination laws would that be?
    
    Guess that the loss of pissed off passengers/revenue might focus their mind.
    
    I am looking forward to 2 pieces of news.
    
    1. Southwest airlines announces it is the preferred The fat persons airline
    2. Southwest airline pumps seat prices by 50% to stay solvent.
    2.
    
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    December 21, 2023 3:10pm
- 7kiwi11
  
  What if I am an average weight but identify as fat, can I then get an extra seat?
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Have you ever been squished next to a passenger “of size”?
  
  It does not make for an enjoyable experience.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:00am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes. However giving these people a free seat just drives up the costs of all air tickets. With the numbers of obese people in the USA, this is likely to be a big deal. We are not talking about just the occasional person. They can either buy an additional seat or fly business class.
    
    There is also an issue of personal responsibility. Obese people got that way through choice. It is different to (say) a blind person who may need additional room on the plane for their guide dog.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:12am
    - Diogenes
      
      @BY: “Obese people got that way through choice. ”
      
      Sorry Benedict, but there are other reasons that people are obese — medical, biological, etc. They may well be in the (substantial) minority, but to tar all with the same brush is very unfair.
      
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      December 21, 2023 12:13pm
      - BarryB
        
        There are many things found out during wars.
        
        One thing that has been studied a lot but not much reported on are the effects on people in areas of starvation that occurred during WW2. Holland had an area of sever starvation in the later part of WW2. And there were the hundreds of camps – some labour, some concentration. Sever starvation certainly affected offspring – both physically and mentally. But one thing where there is no argument about is that there were no fat people in any type of camp – and some people in some of the camps had what was considered then (and now) to be totally adequate food intake.
        There is little doubt that the overweight condition is almost always due to too much food and not enough exercise. There are very few medical conditions where one gets overweight on a diet where intake energy equals expended energy.
        And overweight usually results in diabetes type 2 and with rare exceptions its totally self caused.
        
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        December 21, 2023 1:52pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Stop. Just stop. Obesity is mostly self-inflected. Yes, there are exceptions. We can still generalise about the vast majority of cases.
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:36pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Diogenes ,
        
        Good point.
        
        There is an element on this site who like to make proclamations in the expectation that they trigger a positive response.
        
        It is tiresome and below the intellect of many contributors and readers .
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:16pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Diogenes,
        I call bollocks. Suggest you do more research rather than follow the fat wokes.
        
        Go to Yeman, any obese people there…???
        Genetics(biological) dont change in one or two generations.
        
        I agree there a few medical conditions that cause rare obesity. Cant remember when the last case of elephantitus was diagnosed.
        
        Bias. I have a morbidly obese adult son.
        Neither his mother or father are obese neither were his grandparents on both sides.
        Needless to say over the years I have read alot about obesity and causes.
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:18pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Sorry Benedict, but there are other reasons that people are obese — medical, biological, etc.”
        
        Sorry – you would need to cite credible evidence.
        
        Go to Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia. There are few obese people to be seen.
        
        In the USA 36 percent of people are obese. In Vietnam it is 1.67 percent. I don’t think that Vietnam Airlines needs to worry about giving away free airplane seats.
        
        https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/
        
        Obese people who have no choice are not a “substantial minority”. At best they are a tiny minority.
        
        Disclosure: I struggle with my weight. I have recently lost 5kg – 10kg to go. I know how hard it is.
        
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        December 21, 2023 6:04pm
  - Paulus
    
    Yes worst flight of many years from Sydney to Auckland, AirNZ a while ago.
    I was seated in a window seat and an Island or Maori obese lady sat down outside me and pushed the seat arm up and proceeded to invade my space seriously.
    I called the attendant and was told that they could not do anything about after asking the lady to put the are down which she could not do anyway and told the attendant in no terms where to get off as he had paid her airfare.
    Thank goodness it was only 3 hours as she made the flight most uncomfortable.
    I tried the toilet break but she was totally unhelpful.
    As a regular flier I would only fly steerage internally or Transtasman.
    I have seen some upsetting situations in business, or before first class, when when patriots are on home leave with their young families.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:21am
    - Nukuleka
      
      As Benedict has pointed out- words matter. It is entirely irrelevant to your post what ethnicity the woman was. The point is that she was fat. Absolutely no reason to mention that she was Maori or Pacific Islander. Would you have said ‘European’ had she been white? I’m not being woke-ish or super- sensitive here. I just think it was crude and feankly bigoted to have introduced ethnicity when the issue was her size. Your use of the term ‘steerage’ for an economy class seat is also interesting.
      
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      December 21, 2023 10:02am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        I agree. The needless reference to ethnicity is disappointing.
        
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        December 21, 2023 1:04pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Maybe. It can be relevant in that a person of that ethnicity is more likely to be less accommodating towards a light-skinned person than someone they perceive as a “brother”. For example, the toilet break.
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:40pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Stop clutching your pearls and accept that people can say what they want and how they want.
        If the passenger was a massive red headed Jew or Palestinian or Irishman you would have a different reaction.
        Get over yourselves
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:24pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        It is a statement of observable fact intended to add descriptive context to the event. Your reaction to his inclusion of the racial identification implies Paulus is suggesting all Maori or Islanders are obese, which is a mental leap you’re making, not him.
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:24pm
  - greybeard
    
    Not just their size: they also tend not to bathe / wash / shower as often as they should.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:41am
    - Nukuleka
      
      What an appalling comment to make. Who do you mean by ‘they’? The same Maori and Pacific Island obese people Paulus references? This type of profiling is unworthy of Kiwiblog. I repeat Benedict’s mantra: words matter.
      
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      December 21, 2023 10:06am
      - cmm
        
        I think you are being hyper jumpy.
        
        I took it to mean that obese people often have very poor personal hygiene. Nothing to do with race.
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:23pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Words do matter. And you’re quick to insinuate someone is racist. Maybe less projection on your part when reading other people’s comments?
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:42pm
      - greybeard
        
        My comment was in response to Maggy Wassilieff.
        No mention of race by either of us.
        Please calm down.
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:34pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Only once for me. He was slouching all over the place, so I gave the fat prick a shove and said “How much of NZ do you want?”
    Well the penny dropped. He never said a word and sat straight up all of the flight (domestic)
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:00am
- david in Aus
  
  Great for other people who do have to fit into half a seat because of the over flow. Those of larger girth should be made to pay extra for space but then the airline would have to weigh everyone. Unless you are a monopoly you cannot get away with that.
  
  There is no incentive to be morbid obese. No sane person would want gain 100 kg for an extra seat. You would still be uncomfortable in other aspect of life. Unfortunately, these people cannot stop eating.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:16am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The input hole is bigger than the output hole.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:01am
    - david in Aus
      
      To paraphrase Merv Hugh’s weight loss plan. “I used to eat like an elephant and shit like a pigeon. I reversed that.”
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:00pm
    - cmm
      
      As my old grandma used to say, three meals ahead, six shits behind.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:23pm
  - mawm
    
    David – they even raise their kids to not be able to stop eating with high sugar diets, processed foods, large portions, lack of exercise, etc.
    
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    December 21, 2023 1:58pm
  - Paulus
    
    One of the Pacific airlines do weigh their passengers – not sure which one.
    I had a flight Honolulu late one Friday night to Page Pago.
    We took off over an hour late because there was difficulty with weight, whereby as a domestic airline weighing is not done, but size as of passengers baggage and other sized boxes of ships parts for fleet in Pago.
    As a domestic Pan Am flight in an old 747 with non international crew was full up as many were going to a funeral in Pago.
    As Pacific Islanders they tended to be a much larger weight than I was and at time in turbulance the crew could not control them to sit down and fasten seat belts.
    I had been LA reviewing a legal matter a props New Zealand whereby tickets had been issued, via a number of agents on a Pan Am flight that crashed in PagoPago.
    Quite an experience I would not like to do again – only steerage seats as domestic flight.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:07pm
- James Stephenson
  
  Dollars to donuts that taller folks aren’t going to be given extra legroom seats for free.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:52am
  - bennerg
    
    I’m 6′ 3″ and have always had an issue – in some budget airlines with my knees up just to fit in. And don’t get me started on seat reclining!
    
    Over the years, Airlines have not catered for differing body sizes, without charging extra. This is irrespective of whether it is a natural attribute (height or frame size) or due to bad eating habits (ie people who are simply obese and overweight).
    
    This recent issue, seems to be sadly a response to an effort to normalise obesity, which in my mind is crazy. It promotes an unhealthy lifestyle, and goes against all logic and medical knowledge.
    
    I had an uncomfortable flight some years ago in AirNZ from Sydney back to Auckland where the guy (an Ansett employee on a day excursion carrying a spare part for one of their planes back here) who literally took up half my seat as well. I ended up leaning well into the aisle, and got clipped by the trolly dolly 2 or 3 times. Awkward and uncomfortable.
    
    I would suggest that anyone who cannot fit their body comfortably in the form of the provided seats needs to pay for the extra seat (doesn’t need to be a full fare as they are still just one person with one set of baggage etc) unless they can provide a medical certificate indicating their issue is a large body frame (as opposed to obesity) or a medical issue outside their control.
    
    There are many issues that even Hotels have. When the Harlem Globetrotters came to Auckland some years ago they had to find beds to accomodate the 7 foot plus players!
    
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    December 21, 2023 10:46am
    - cmm
      
      I’m a touch over 6ft 5. What I really, really dislike is when some smug little 5 ft nothing prick gets assigned an exit row seat.
      
      I try to get an isle seat and put my legs out the side. You get shinned by the trolley dolly but so be it.
      
      I don’t worry about bed lengths. I have grown up expecting to hang over the end of the bed. It doesn’t bother me.
      
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      December 21, 2023 11:25am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        You should do what we did cmm.
        My partner hates hanging out the end of bed, so we ordered a custom made ‘Alaskan King’.
        (Impossible to get the actual bedding here, but you can source all the linen and stuff off Amazon).
        
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        December 21, 2023 11:45am
      - cmm
        
        Maggie, I am going to assume that your boyf is a bit shorter than me (pretty much everyone is so it’s a reasonable bet).
        
        If you’re in the 6ft to 6ft 3 range then it is probably worth trying to adjust the world to fit you. There are enough comforts out there.
        
        But over 6ft4 is not worth the bother. It is much easier to just suck it up and learn to live with it. I have my whole life, so sticking out of a bed or hitting my head on doors frames no longer registers on my discomfort meter and no longer impacts on my quality of life.
        
        It has been good for a few laughs though… like the Army not being able to find me boots that were big enough.
        
        Thanks for the suggestion though.
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:31pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I really do not think that you should treat her seriously.
        
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        December 21, 2023 6:21pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        BY I find the “real tennis wives of Parnell” show quite amusing.
        
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        December 21, 2023 9:06pm
    - Paulus
      
      Ticket agents are employees of the Airport, so have no authority other than to take weigh baggage and issue boarding passes.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:10pm
    - ISeeRed
      
      Yep. Unlike “people of size”, “people of height” can’t help or change their physical condition. Any sympathy or accommodation for such folks? Nope.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:46pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Being tall almost always means you are male and therefore evil. Also is generally correlated with being smarter (bigger brain) and more financially successful and so worthy of punishment.
    
    It’s fat women that the world is supposed to pussy foot around – a ‘priviledged’ group encouraged by normal women surreptitiously trying to nobble their competition.
    
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    December 21, 2023 1:16pm
- Local Miller
  
  If I identify as a “person of size” can I also get a free seat? I’d love to have the extra room.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:10am
- Ghost
  
  I can understand why they’d do this. The fatties have been very vocal in the media and social media about the airlines hurting their feelings
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:29am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Cat Pause used to waffle on about airline attitudes.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:05am
- Raphael
  
  so using their logic, tall customers should get the seats with extra leg room for free.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:41am
- G152
  
  Well they do spread themselves widely
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:29pm
Maggie Pie

You WILL watch this…..and be Happy 😀 😀 😀

‘SANTA KLAUS IS COMING TO TOWN’

https://twitter.com/snicklink/status/1735644171942171086
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December 21, 2023 8:31am
- Grant
  
  Maggie
  That is incredible. You’ve made my day!
  Merry Christmas to you and your partner.
  G
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Great. Emailed it to some red flags in Wellywood.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:10am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Very good!
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:26pm
Nigel Kearney

Sorry Judith Collins, but you are off to a bad start. I didn’t expect better but I hoped for it. An Attorney-General who puts Francis Cooke on the Court of Appeal is no friend of any New Zealander who wants to be safe and free from violence. Some examples:

https://kiwiblog.co.nz/2023/07/home_detention_for_helping_murder_someone.html

https://nzherald.co.nz/nz/sadistic-sexual-predator-who-degraded-victims-avoids-sentence-of-preventive-detention/N3POS525MZCSLNSR4FUYB2CH6U/

https://nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/conrad-gray-gets-prison-sentence-for-manslaughter-of-daniel-gooch-in-whanganui/A6IDXAHSVV5TMKEDBFGLNQ72QY/?c_id=1503426&objectid=12268862&fbclid=IwAR3OCrtsttF4LE0attsQU___P6Wcj4o_H7CJNLTXjSV0sP2ALopHz4R3Kqw
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December 21, 2023 8:35am
- Rusty
  
  @Nigel
  
  Never been a fan of Judith Collins dating back to that stupid law crushing boy racers cars and the David Bain inquiry fiasco
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:51am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    What did Judith do wrong in regards Bain? Amy Adams with Key’s support gave him nearly a mil knowing he was guilty.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:57am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Nope, Judith was the minister who received the report – and screwed up.
      
      She didnt cause the problem, Simon Power set up the review, and the Ministry of Justice stuffed up the adult supervision and support for Justice Binny. Collins screwed the landing.
      
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      December 21, 2023 12:53pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Judith, received a report from Binnie the Ninnie and then asked for a report from a competent former judge. Do you think she should have accpeted Binnie’s report?
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:10pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Nigel,
  Cooke has been appointed because of his intellect. In fact him going up means he won’t be direct sentencing in the future. His influence on sentencing appeals will be one of three.
  Not the first time an extremely able judge in terms of intellect has been promoted to get him out of the lower court, where sometimes they lack a practical touch.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:59am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Maybe they should tell them to apply for a job at a law school
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:19am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Intellect is nice, but good judgment is more important.
    
    And the Court of Appeal is the absolute worst place to have judges who are a menace to society, because their rulings set precedents that can prevent proper sentencing in the courts below.
    
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    December 21, 2023 1:10pm
ClanMcleod

So Medsafe is witholding information on who pays their wages. Apparently it will “damage the public interest”.
Why would it? You mean their could be a perception that they are influenced by who funds them? Surely if they are above reproach, they should be able to easily convince people that this isn’t the case?

https://x.com/dragonfishy/status/1737386871788130358?s=20

The more information that is prised out of those responsible for the horrors of the covid response, the more things fall into place. The proper inquiry can’t come soon enough.
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December 21, 2023 8:41am
- Zero Kindness
  
  Medsafe are good at withholding stuff, like that dangerous horse medicine, ivermectin.
  I agree an extensive, independent inquiry is needed for this fiasco.
  
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  December 21, 2023 8:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Sorry I agree with Medsafe here. I don’t understand why you want the Government rather than drugs companies to pay for the licencing process for medicine. AFAIK that does not happen in any OECD country and it will never happen here.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:01am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Sorry too Benedict, but if you can’t see the potential for serious conflict of interest then I can’t help you.
    It’s fox and henhouse stuff.
    
    My first major shock during the circus that was COVID was finding out that Medsafe approved the jab based on data provided by Pfizer. Seriously? You don’t see any problem here?
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:17am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      What other data should they use? Its very expensive to produce.
      
      The issue is not Pfizer or any other Pharma co. doing the testing. Its the audit and control of the testing that is the issue.
      
      Finding a system where the applicant for approval pays but the testing process is robust is extremely difficult with Pharma products due to the long run nature of trials needed to show what possible harms could occur…
      
      The real issue is regulators getting jobs in Pharma after finishing at regulatory body that is where the influence happens – Pharma being levied to fund regulation is not the real problem…
      
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      December 21, 2023 11:56am
  - mawm
    
    Bene – do you believe that they are the only western medicine regulatory body that is not “influenced” by the funders? The old adage that “he who pays the piper, calls the tune” has never been more appropriate.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:17am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Sorry I agree with Medsafe…”
    
    Just because everyone else does it doesn’t make it right.
    
    Do you think the drug companies would absorb the cost of applications or pass it on to the purchaser?
    
    They pass it on.
    
    Therefore we are paying for it anyway with a healthy markup thrown in.
    
    As a bonus, the drug companies, as the benefactors, will have influence on the income of Medsafe.
    Clearly this influence is being rigorously exercised.
    
    Naïveté is an indulgence many of us in the real world cannot afford.
    
    14 2
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    December 21, 2023 9:26am
    - RichardX
      
      NZ CAA is majority funded by airlines.
      Does this lead to undue influence and increased cost to passengers or is it just user pays?
      
      1 3
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      December 21, 2023 11:02am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        You beat me to it.
        
        Air New Zealand is the principal funder of the CAA through the levies it pays.
        
        https://www.aviation.govt.nz/
        
        You think that the CAA would give the airline a free pass if it did not stick to its maintenance intervals? Of course not – they would go ballistic and ground the airplanes.
        
        There are many ways to manage conflicts of interest. Having the Government fund the regulation of medicines is not one of them.
        
        5 2
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        December 21, 2023 11:36am
      - imalwaysright
        
        The airlines don’t supply experimental drugs and any deaths they do cause are usually immediately apparent.
        
        5 2
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        December 21, 2023 11:55am
  - cmm
    
    BY: A lot depends on how much they pay.
    
    If they pay just enough to cover the costs that is one thing.
    
    However if they pay so much that it becomes revenue then that is quite another. When that happens, there is an incentive for the government departments to give a free pass and encourage more applications.
    
    We see this perversion in the way patents are granted. For some time (and this may still be the case), the US patent office charged more for processing than the costs of the filing. That’s a nice little money spinner.
    
    So to encourage more applications, the patent office became extremely lax in its patent vetting.
    
    These situations need to be avoided.
    
    5 1
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    December 21, 2023 11:11am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “A lot depends on how much they pay.”
      
      Which is why the Treasury regulates cost recovery.
      
      https://www.treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2017-04/settingcharges-apr17.pdf
      
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      December 21, 2023 11:38am
- MCōs
  
  Medsafe is part of the Dept of Health so they are funded by the taxpayer.
  There is also an application fee for new medicines
  https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/regulatory/fees.asp
  Medsafe probably gets OIAs all the time from the likes of Paul Oosterhuis so they have a generic reply with reference to the Ombudsman if they’re not happy
  The suggestion seems to be that these companies are bribing Medsafe employees to turn a blind eye?
  If they are I’d be first in a very long line to get a job there!
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:18am
- Grunter
  
  Could their reputation be damaged anymore? Anyone that cares to do a ‘shallow dive’ into the COVID scam already knows that Medsafe is a bunch of useful idiots alongside Ardern and Hipkins.
  
  The majority of Kiwis won’t take any new jab for the next pandemic when it arrives.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:45am
- imalwaysright
  
  Clan,
  I heard that the FDA when approving a drug merely reconstruct graphs from data supplied by the applicant.
  I thought they would be running laboratory tests of some sort but apparently not.
  They don’t even investigate the raw data.
  Basically a box ticking excercise but the FDA draws the box from dimensions supplied by their customer.
  I would imagine that Medsafe would be the same.
  It looks like the FDA and Medsafe are there to intervene if something goes wrong.
  That’s a lot of trust being placed in the hands of drug companies .
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:54pm
  - mawm
    
    New drugs have to go through rigorous testing programs and the results of these are submitted to the regulatory agencies. None of the agencies do any of their own testing so there is a huge reliance on the drug companies being honest. This has been shown time and again to be misplaced as well as drug companies becoming masters at statistical manipulation, rigged trials and evasion of exploring harmful signals. I guess Pfizer were just up to their normal tricks with their mRNA product.
    
    This does not absolve regulatory agencies from doing competent analyses of the data they have been given. The FDA has shown exactly how the process has been corrupted by money.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:07pm
slightlyrighty

I had a thought while listening to Grant Robertson this morning.

We have been made aware on a number of occasions about a bullying culture within Labour, in that they have a very direct way of dealing with matters. At the same time, they were elected in 2020 with an absolute majority.

This gave Labour carte blanche to introduce policy in line with their own ideals, and these policies have now been proven to be nothing but ideological fantasies, peddled by incompetent academics.
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December 21, 2023 8:43am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He sounded weak pathetic and woeful on the radio, 10 minutes latter they read out about 5 texts, every single one completely belittling Robertson, some even went further into calling for charges
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:54am
  - Scooter
    
    Yes he sounded all but given up, I bet he’s only hanging in because it would make Labour look even worse if he jumps ship.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:25am
    - rouppe
      
      I thought there was a rumour about him going to be VC at Otago.
      
      Benedict, I think, said it?
      
      Might not have put pen to paper
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:36pm
Warren

When Labour gained power in 2017 all we got from them was the blame game on our Health System being under funded for decades and poorly maintained, well I for one don’t want to see the Coalition Government take the same path whether right or wrong as they have the opportunity to show the opposition who are the grown ups in the house and their job is to make New Zealand better not bitch and moan at what Labour has left them and use the same attack for the whole six years they were in power.
And i can understand Nicola Willis Willis and the disappointment that she has with Grant Robertson but it is time for National to get on with the job of Governing and showing New Zealander’s they are the adults in the house, not the dribbling little children that the previous Government showed themselves to be for the past 6 years.
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December 21, 2023 8:49am
- Damocles11
  
  Keep getting stuck into Labour I reckon, pretty easy to pillory them & run the country effectively as well.
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Keep your wits about you – the left have not given up.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/co-governance-still-going-on-by-stealth/
14 1
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December 21, 2023 8:49am
Maggie Pie

My partner just sent thru the link and I thort it worth sharing…..

“Other than feeding this sub-human rock spider into a Wood Chipper, 36 years behind bars is probably the next best thing”

https://stuff.co.nz/world/301030538/hiv-infected-paedophile-gets-36-year-sentence-from-australian-courts

(Let’s hope they don’t discover he’s got any links to NZ. No matter how tenuous)
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December 21, 2023 9:00am
- NZer In Exile
  
  South Australia AGAIN. It really does seem to be a hub for psychos and killers!
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Given the history of the experimental Covid vaccines, who will take this before winter?
There will always be those who are true believers – and stupid.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/health/other/pfizer-s-application-for-new-covid-19-booster-vaccine-approved-ready-in-time-for-winter/ar-AA1lLt7R?
14 2
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December 21, 2023 9:01am
- Flossie
  
  Not for me thanks.
  
  17 0
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  December 21, 2023 9:08am
- mawm
  
  My M-i-L lives in a special care unit (dementia). They phoned the other day to ask if she could have a booster. My wife gave them permission and I then told her what the course would be as a result. She now has a positive rat, is symptom free but they want to start her on paxlovid. Fortunately my wife has said no this time.
  We will never hear about the deaths in the unit but there will be a lot of new faces soon.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dementia is a hard thing to deal with.
    It is sad because those people deserve better.
    
    3 0
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    December 21, 2023 4:10pm
    - mawm
      
      It is very sad to see the person one knew eroding away and becoming an empty shell. Fortunately we can afford to have her in a very good unit. There are some problems but overall she is well cared for.
      
      4 0
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      December 21, 2023 4:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Brain of swiss cheese is bad. I hope I never get there and hope some don’t.
        I have seen it first hand. Makes big tough guys like me cry.
        Yes it does.
        
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        December 21, 2023 6:14pm
- rouppe
  
  I’m going to Europe for my uncle’s 90th birthday. We were “encouraged” by his family to take a booster.
  
  I’ve not.
  
  But I have taken a box of tests, and will test myself 4, 2 and 1 day before meeting him. Several people I know have caught COVID in the last month while travelling
  
  3 0
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  December 21, 2023 2:33pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I see that “pregnant people” need to get a booster 🙁
  
  6 0
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  December 21, 2023 2:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is ‘males’ as well?
    They are out there you know!
    
    3 0
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    December 21, 2023 4:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Be afraid, very afraid…. (if you accept a senior lectureship/professorship at Auckland University)….

someone… or something is out to get you….

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/12/20/graham-adams-fear-stalks-auckland-university-campus/
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December 21, 2023 9:11am
- Swifty
  
  My god, the hypocrisy just drips from them.
  
  18 1
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  December 21, 2023 9:40am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Yes indeed. But Siouxsie is learning that what goes around comes around, and it’s revealing that even her woke employer now apparently regards her as a net liability.
    
    26 0
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    December 21, 2023 10:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The pink terror is a nothing burger – an airhead who likes the publicity and especially the camera.
  Trouble is, she is dangerous. Can incite all sorts of shit and blame her employer.
  
  12 1
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  December 21, 2023 12:16pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The iron law of the universe strikes again. Namely, everything woke turns to shit.
  
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  December 22, 2023 5:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Te reo use illegal?
The NZ public have lost control of names used in the Public Sector? Surely the Coalition Ministers don’t bow down before people such as Piripi Walker?
This shit is all part of the ongoing Coup. Wake up.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/m%C4%81ori-language-board-chair-says-govt-s-planned-order-on-te-reo-use-is-illegal/ar-AA1lOhJ3?
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December 21, 2023 9:12am
- JerJer
  
  This guy is effectively the Chairmain of the “Ministry of making up words”. I am not sure how long that organization is going to be around if it is a government department….
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:21am
  - Swifty
    
    Here’s another one – The Royal Society for putting things on top of other things:
    
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrdqQZ8FFc
    
    7 0
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    December 21, 2023 9:43am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    He needs to hope inn his wakatopatopa and fly off.
    
    10 0
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    December 21, 2023 10:03am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Wakatopatopa? No shit.
      It is getting beyond ridiculous.
      
      5 0
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      December 21, 2023 12:19pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Topa topa topa topa
        topa topa topa
        topa topa topa
        topa topa topa
        Thank fuck we don’t hear Hueys anympre
        
        1 0
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        December 21, 2023 6:27pm
  - kowtow
    
    I have an awful feeling that those jobs will be relatively safe .
    
    Too “divisive” to get rid of ,you see .
    
    2 0
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    December 21, 2023 12:27pm
- MCōs
  
  If the coalition ministers the English names used it behooves them to know what they are themselves
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:25am
- Apteryx
  
  Check out the photo. Philip Walker changing his name to Piripi didn’t seem to increase his Māori ancestry.
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Democrats never stop. They say Trump gets inspiration from Mein Kampf.
Obvious Democrats want America destroyed if they can’t continue with the corruption.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-repeats-anti-immigrant-quoite-denies-taking-inspiration-from-hitler-s-mein-kampf/vi-AA1lO5oI?
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December 21, 2023 9:20am
- virtualmark
  
  Well, Ivanka did clearly say that Trump kept a copy of Hitler’s collected speeches (published as “My New Order”) beside his bed, so maybe he got his inspiration from that rather than from Mein Kampf.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ivana, his first wife, not Ivanka.
    She said it to her Lawyer. Who knows if it is true?
    
    6 1
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    December 21, 2023 11:41am
    - virtualmark
      
      True that, Ivana.
      
      But she did say it back in 1990, so well before Trump’s political ambitions tribalised everyone.
      
      Weird too that Trump should claim immigrants are poisoning America given that 4 of his 5 kids are born to immigrants. That 2 of Trump’s wives were immigrants just goes to prove again that immigrants will do jobs that native-born people won’t.
      
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      December 21, 2023 11:46am
      - mawm
        
        Do you have a problem with differentiating between lawful migrants and those who enter a country illegally?
        
        5 1
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        December 21, 2023 2:11pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        The media did the tribalising.
        
        3 0
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        December 21, 2023 2:58pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Trump’s own words were about immigrants. Not illegal immigrants … immigrants. Sure, you can editorialise your own perception on what you think he meant, but those were his words.
        
        And stepping back from trying to parse what he said into something acceptable … the key point people are making is that he’s almost directly echoing Hitler. Not a great template.
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:29pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Pretty clear he was saying illegal immigration brings lots of crims. Not hard to understand if you listen to his actual words.
        
        0 0
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        December 22, 2023 5:13pm
- mandk
  
  Fascism is much more likely to be rooted in leftist parties.
  
  The Nazis were socialist.
  
  And, if you look at NZ, Labour and the Greens have much stronger authoritarian tendencies than the right of centre parties.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:57am
  - MCōs
    
    The National Socialist German Workers’ Party was as socialist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic.
    The former was a fascist party as was the National Fascist Party in Italy & the Spanish FET y de las JONS amongst other things in Spain
    
    5 15
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    December 21, 2023 10:25am
    - Swifty
      
      You’re right, they were fascist.
      
      But what you haven’t mentioned is that fascism and socialism are two great overlapping circles.
      
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      December 21, 2023 10:55am
      - Colinxy
        
        Socialism birthed Fascism. Fascism is socialism. MCōs is just wrong.
        
        From a Marxist perspective, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is democratic. Marxism only acknowledges communism as democratic. They consider what we have as false democracy.
        
        The National Socialist German Worker’s Party was socialist, but it wasn’t a Marxist flavour of socialism. However, it even used Hegel’s dialectic liked Marx did. The National Socialists considered themselves “Third Positionists” – thesis plus antithesis through mein kampf becomes synthesis.
        
        Even Trotsky recognised the socialism of fascism.
        
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        December 21, 2023 12:40pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      A point well made. Desperate attempts to paint the Nazis as lefties are just that – desperate.
      
      4 2
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      December 21, 2023 1:42pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Fascism has five main characteristics:
    
    1. Rejecting democracy in favour a strongman leader,
    2. Stoking rage against cultural elites,
    3. Nationalism based on a “superior” race,
    4. Extolling brute strength and heroic warriors,
    5. Disdain of women and LGBT-whatever people.
    
    I don’t think I could say any of those are more likely to be rooted in the left, but there is the “horseshoe” theory where the extreme left and extreme right are hard to tell apart.
    
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    December 21, 2023 10:51am
    - Colinxy
      
      Tikhistory’s long video on the National Socialist German Worker’s Party being socialism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8
      
      There are other videos he’s done on the topic as well.
      
      What usually happens when people try to deny Nazism is socialism is they want to move the socialist goalpost to Marx’s version of socialism, IOW, they will erect the strawman argument.
      
      Marx did not invent socialism. And, believe it or not, he didn’t even invent communism (though he did invent his own version of it).
      
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      December 21, 2023 1:23pm
    - virtualmark
      
      I think fascism is its own standalone concept, and exists separate from socialism.
      
      Each country implements fascism in its own slightly different way. Italian/Mussolini fascism (the OG) was slightly different to Spanish fascism and also different to German/Nazi fascism. For example Italian fascism had more of the Italian machismo flavour, and German fascism expressed Germany’s latent militarism and anti-Semitism. But they all shared the same general characteristics I listed above.
      
      Meanwhile I’d argue that Trump is an American fascist, in the vein of the five characteristics above and “when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”.
      
      I’d also argue that Xi Jinping is pushing those same five characteristics in China … so there’s an example of Chinese-flavoured fascism and a notionally socialist fascist.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:10pm
      - Colinxy
        
        The “OG” Fascists were disillusioned Marxists: the prophesied worker’s Revolution never occurred; it only happened in the backwater known as Russia and not where Marx said they’d occur.
        
        Rather than abandon the religion, people like Mussolini revamped their socialism (much like the Neo-Marxists would do decades later). Fascism grew straight out of socialism. Sure, Mussolini’s co-religionists would give him the boot from the PSI (Italian Socialist Party) for going from anti invention to invention in the Great War, but he still kept to socialism…but moving away from Marxist’s class version of socialism.
        
        TikHistory, whom I have already linked one of his videos on the topic above, thrashes this all out. And given he’s done the work, I suggest watching his videos on these topics. They are long, but IMHO well worth it.
        
        (Even those that tried to keep their Marxist faith in the same time period, like Antonio Gramsci, had to alter it, birthing Cultural Marxism.)
        
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        December 21, 2023 4:04pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    I don’t understand why Fascism gets a worse write-up than Socialism/Communism – they’re just different branding of the same violently repressive totalitarian evil, slightly different start conditions that lead to sociopathic Dictators that are all cut from the same cloth, though the left-wing side have killed and destroyed the lives of many times more people than the right wing side.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:21am
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      A more reasonable claim than mandk’s.
      
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      December 21, 2023 1:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Highly classified US intel on Russia went missing under Trump.
The binder has still not been found. Best look in Melania’s undies drawer.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/highly-classified-us-intel-on-russia-went-missing-under-trump/ss-AA1lN8wj?
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December 21, 2023 9:26am
- mawm
  
  It’s the binder of the shenanigans that the Democrats, the FBI and DOJ got up to. Trump declassified it just before leaving but the DOJ demanded “redactions” to it. They quickly recalled all the copies but one went missing. They fear that Trump has it hence the Mar-a-Largo search. They are shitting themselves that if Trump gets the Presidency he’ll use it to prosecute the lot of them. Hence all the attempts to keep him off the ballot. Colorado has obliged.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I don’t know what is in the binder, but if what you say is true the Dems are desperate to save their arses. Same as the Epstein log book.
    Remember what Hillary said? “If I go down, half of DC comes with me.”
    That is scary, their lives depend on it.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:47am
    - mawm
      
      Crossfire Hurricane.
      
      Victor Davis Hanson has a good editorial commentary on YouTube.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V6jH-6F6K0&t=214s
      
      3 0
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      December 21, 2023 2:21pm
    - MCōs
      
      As you know there is no evidence Hillary Clinton said
      ‘If I go down, half of DC comes with me.’
      Anyone can fabricate such fakery and pass it off as factual
      
      2 3
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      December 21, 2023 3:02pm
      - MCōs
        
        Other people claim facts are fakery
        
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        December 21, 2023 4:59pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Because you believe Wikipedia and Google and all the disingenuous far left “fact check” turd polishers MCōs?
        
        1 0
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        December 21, 2023 10:16pm
NothingLeft

Triggernometry; the cancelling of Graham Lineham (creator of Father Ted, The IT crowd) who spoke out over modern Trans insanity and has been professionally and financially ruined (and lost his family) as a result. Interesting insights on the sociology of the problem and manipulation and kowing of majorities by malignant minorities.
https://youtu.be/va6hXYTMBDI
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December 21, 2023 9:46am
- James Stephenson
  
  It was interesting watching Linehan having his eyes opened to the realities of censorship and I thought he did well to “man-up” (deliberate choice there) and apologise to Count Dankula for being on the other side of things through the “nazi pug” insanity.
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:03am
- Tom Hunter
  
  He’s still very Left so obviously doesn’t see the connection.
  
  It’s like that poor bastard in Canada, a teacher or lecturer who got reamed as a “White Colonizer” and such by some POS theorist in a conference. He’d taught minority kids, poor kids etc, but he took the criticism to heart and after the subsequent battles over his job, killed himself.
  
  If he’d been even marginally right-wing he’d have told her to fuck off and it would have been water off a duck’s back.
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:02pm
Maggie Pie

Had to smirk to myself 😀

Just received an email from one of our Insurance Brokers.

Last year they opened with….. “Meri Kirihimete”

Now it starts….”Merry Christmas”

After 6 long years, sanity has finally returned to the Land-of-Plenty.
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December 21, 2023 10:01am
- Nickc2
  
  Not quite, Maggie, they haven’t retarded the premium prices six years.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:12am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    OMG… you are sooo right there, Nicky!
    It’s reached the stage where we’re seriously considering ‘self-insuring’ the Beachhouse. You almost get the feeling that’s what they’re angling for people to do. In the meantime, the premiums have become ridiculous for a beachfront property that has never flooded in recorded history.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:30am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Maggie, have you considered increasing the amount
      you cover yourself??
      
      Instead of having a $500 minimum claim increase to 10K, you will be surprised how much the premium decreases.
      
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      December 21, 2023 11:39am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        I think thats probably more related to the contents insurance.
        The actual replacement cover on the house now attracts a premium in excess of $1400 per month. More than double what it was 5 years ago 🙁
        
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        December 21, 2023 1:27pm
      - mawm
        
        Maggie – this probably reflects how much the buying power of the dollar has decreased and the higher cost of replacement (consents, materials and labour) if there has been a of total loss eg from fire.
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:27pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        know wot you saying mawm, but tbh my patner reckins it mite be becos of all the losers out west that bort in known flood-zones….. and now the insurance companys are hitting people like us to reclover their loses 🙁
        
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        December 21, 2023 2:54pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Never flooded but the sea levels are going to rise 10 feet unless you start paying “climate Tax.”
      
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      December 21, 2023 11:50am
    - mogg
      
      I was just talking to a friend who owns commercial building Lower Hutt Central. His broker told him to expect a 60% premium increase this time. His building is not inside Tsunami or any flooding risk lines.
      
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      December 21, 2023 1:10pm
      - MCōs
        
        Lower Hutt Central isn’t a million miles from the Hutt River
        
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        December 21, 2023 3:23pm
      - mogg
        
        There are historical flood markers on the Hutt river.
        Even the mighty flood in 1976 didn’t get anywhere near to flooding High Street, the two major floods which are still well below the flood banks were approx 1820 something and another just a bit later.
        There are also lines painted onto the roads in Alicetown and Woburn showing the worst possible case for Tsunami flooding.
        Why the need for insurance policy increases now?
        
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        December 21, 2023 4:28pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Its the underwriters who cough up the cash.
      With NZD down(until last month) the cost to underwriters in their real currency would be down when they pay out south sea rubles.
      
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      December 21, 2023 5:55pm
Libertarians are right

Can someone please explain how anti-Zionism isn’t anti-semitism?

I get that there are legitimate criticisms to be made of the settlors and the Israeli government but they aren’t the totality of Zionism.
Zionism, simply put is the want for a home. All people want this. So why is a Jewish want for a home seen as something that’s evil if not for anti-semitism?

As I said, I get that there are issues with what’s been done in the name of Zionism but the outright declaration that all Zionists are evil is fundamentally wrong. The only reason for believing Zionism is evil that I can think of is the belief that Jews are evil/don’t deserve a home.

Can someone please explain why it’s ok to treat Zionism as a great evil?
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December 21, 2023 10:55am
- miltonF
  
  The opposition to Zionism is because most people do not think race and religion should determine one’s place in society. It is counter to the west’s “colourblind” society which is based on meritocracy.
  
  We are seeing the same thing play out in NZ with the Māori supremacy movement, where your race and spirituality determine your rights and privileges.
  
  Typically these kinds of artificial divisions in society are frowned upon, but for some reason Zionism gets a free pass. I’m still not sure why? I think it is a kick-back guilt thing from WW2.
  
  Here is another example. The Sikhs in India are currently trying to form their own autonomous region and govt in Punjab. The religion of Sikhism is only 500yrs old. Most people would consider this a radical violent separatist movement, but if we are to be consistent in our support of religious separatism then we must support the Sikhs as this is their religious homeland which they are entitled to through their religious texts…
  
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  December 21, 2023 2:20pm
  - mogg
    
    Surely Zionism is about the original need for a homeland state and the establishment of Israel in what was called Palestine, and before that Judea.
    The reason that the progressive left hate. Zionism is because they now see it as Colonialism and racist. Identity Politics as you say wants people to be classified by the colour of their skin, or their sex, gender, religion, race or any possible way they can claim victimhood. That is why Palestinians can commit disgusting acts of barbarism but still be given a free pass because they are seen as permanent victims of Israeli aggression.
    
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    December 21, 2023 3:12pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Simple
  Zionism is a political construct
  Semitism is religious grouping
  
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  December 21, 2023 5:56pm
Chuck Bird

Anyone listened to ZB with Tim B discussing whether Luxon is right about banning nuclear powered ships forever.
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December 21, 2023 10:57am
- Blog-aholic
  
  IIRC at the time the nuclear ban was not so much a ban on the nuclear powered ships it was because Uncle Sam would not confirm or deny whether said ships carried nuclear weapons….
  
  I doubt Luxon wants to go there just at present but I certainly believe that the discussion around nuclear power for NZ should be had.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:01am
  - kowtow
    
    It was /is cos Labour and the rest of the left hate ‘America’ .
    
    This is something we need to have a national “conversation” about , not ducking out constantly.
    
    I think it’s actually cowardly for a country , like New Zealand , to sit on its hands , knowing other countries like the US and Oz are on the front line and we’re cowering behind them , knowing we’ll be next.
    
    Or will the Left here , when the balloon goes up , jump up and shoot the Americans and Aussies in the back , if they see the future is Red .
    
    I wouldn’t put it past them. Their hearts were in Moscow and are now in Peking .
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:23am
    - Handyman
      
      Totally agree kowtow. It is as silly as driving an ICE car to a “stop oil” demo or Clark declaring “New Zealand exists in a benign strategic environment, so we don’t need the Americans.”
      The left just hate all things American especially their navy. There was a protest organised for the American destroyer as part of the NZ navy celebrations but it detoured to Kaikoura to be the first ship in the scene after the big earthquake, complete with medical and water supplies. I didn’t see any “go home yank” protests there.
      
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      December 21, 2023 1:45pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Uncle Sam was not going to race back to the US to lock and load a nuclear weapon.
    
    And yes, we need to start talking about nuclear power, especially for all of the trendy EVs. Why should my electricity be rationed just for the trendsetters?
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:56am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Wouldnt worry too much.
    Media is news scarce over christmas.
    So they resort to trying to wind up pollies to create some controversy.
    
    Luxon should just respond with what a stupid question during the season of goodwill
    
    Bet they dont try that with Winston
    
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    December 21, 2023 5:59pm
- Cantabrian
  
  Missed it. But nuclear powered ships are incredibly safe. The ban is more around the hysteria of nuclear weapons. The two should not be conflated.
  And we must be prepared to consider modern nuclear power generators if we are serious about the mythical ‘net zero.’
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:13am
- NoFax
  
  Mr. Luxon cannot ban nuclear ships and/or weapons forever – only while he is PM. However, the policy was always anti-American and, unfortunately, too many NZers are anti-American. It seems we cannot have a rational debate on the policy and whether it has worked or not – I say it’s failed.
  I think at this stage of our military rebuilding, after decades of decline, we are quite there to face reality. China wants to build a nuclear powered aircraft carrier by 2040, so perhaps when it starts poking it’s nose in the South Pacific we will be ready to acknowledge that our security is almost totally dependent on the US.
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:33pm
  - MCōs
    
    On the one hand our security has always been based on isolation. Since colonial times and 1840 one could argue France was our greatest military threat when they sank the Rainbow Warrior. Japan were never in a position to invade
    These days the threats come from different quarters. Malware, spies in parliament & tictok, would you believe . . .
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:12pm
Gravyman2

Happy Gravy day!
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December 21, 2023 11:06am
thirteenstars

The insurgency (insurrection?) continues with Te Papa choosing to leave the vandalism of the Treaty display in full public view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI3LXbsM1JY

The report talks about iwi “bringing the two sides together”. What two sides would that be? The vandals and Te Papa, that’s who, as if they were opposing forces. They’re not. Te Papa is paddling the same ideological waka. It’s all theatre.

Leaving the exhibit on display is a political statement and the vandals will be over the moon. Perfect outcome and probably engineered from the get-go.

After 9/11 there was some discussion that the destruction of the WTC, the imagery of planes piercing the dark heart of the enemy, the horror and pain, was akin to a work of modern art, replete with all the nihilism, anti-intellectualism and vacuity that such “art” exhibits.

Make no mistake, the scar left upon the walls of Te Papa is now such a statement, like a charred corpse screaming the intended message.

I suggest emailing the new Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage. Paul Goldsmith, who’s responsible for Te Papa.

paul.goldsmith@parliament.govt.nz

At the very least the exhibit can be covered up, though no doubt Te Papa could take it down if it chose to.

Note: the Secretary of the Ministry is Leauanae Laulu Mac Leauanae, the former Secretary of the Ministry of Pacific Peoples who was blasted for his $40,000 farewell before doubling down on the profligacy by being welcomed to his new Ministry also with an expensive powhiri.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/ministry-of-pacific-peoples-blasted-for-40-000-farewell-by-public-service-watchdog.html
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December 21, 2023 11:16am
- Ghost
  
  It’s being left there because they do not have the ability to remove it
  
  The defaced panel will remain on display at the museum over the summer as specialist equipment is required to remove it.
  
  Article
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:24am
  - kowtow
    
    Tui ad.
    
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    December 21, 2023 11:25am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “At the very least the exhibit can be covered up”
    
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    December 21, 2023 12:05pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    What is this special equipment they need? A cherrypicker? Why not the equipment used to put it up there?
    Te Papa are just fucking around.
    
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    December 21, 2023 12:06pm
    - Ghost
      
      It’s not something that can just be lifted of the wall.
      
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      December 21, 2023 12:24pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        Oh, please.
        
        “At the very least the exhibit can be covered up”
        
        There, done. But no. The activists and their enablers and accomplices, including Te Papa, leave it exposed because it’s far more effective as a propaganda tool.
        
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        December 21, 2023 12:53pm
      - Paul
        
        Stick a coreflute woodgrain copy on top with some adhesive and Bob is your Uncle!
        
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        December 21, 2023 8:33pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Why can’t it just be lifted and brought down? What is so special?
        Not passing the sniff test sorry.
        I have seen some very large and heavy things moved such as 30 ton boats (concrete horrors we called them) back in the days of heavy boat haulage.
        
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        December 22, 2023 7:49am
    - Paulus
      
      Do I not see that many of the top employees in many sections of Te Papa are Maori ?
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:16pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    If the Maaori version had been vandalized, do you think Te Papa would leave the resulting mess on view over summer?
    
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    December 21, 2023 1:49pm
    - Ghost
      
      I don’t really care what they do with it, doesn’t interest me. Keep it, remove it, means nothing to me looking at the size of it removing it isn’t going to be an easy job
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:06pm
  - Keith White
    
    I could do it with a ladder. FFS.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:37pm
    - Ghost
      
      I doubt that you could. It’s 30ft high. Not a quick removal.
      
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      December 21, 2023 6:01pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Or read it as.
    The contracted removers are on the NZ holiday from work….. that extends from 1st December to after Auckland Anniversary day.
    
    Except of course owner operated business who are flat out
    
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    December 21, 2023 6:03pm
- kowtow
  
  They were quite happy to insult / offend Christians with Virgin in a Condom , masquerading as “art”.
  
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  December 21, 2023 11:25am
  - rouppe
    
    100%. The media love comparing things, but not this time
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Te Papa say they are working on a long term solution.
  They need to come to grips with the Littlewood Draft – but Maori don’t want that displayed. The truth will stop the Gravy Train.
  
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  December 21, 2023 12:03pm
  - cmm
    
    Te Papa need to decide whether museums should display history or wokery.
    
    I think they likely have figured out which side they want to be on.
    
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    December 21, 2023 12:20pm
stiff cheese

Economic Underperformance | croaking cassandra

Where was the “rock star economy” that John Key allegedly created?

As a bare number, GDP is used to fool people. What really matters is Real GDP per hour worked. The first number can be manipulated higher by importing migrants. The second number reveals the affect on the prosperity of each worker.

Look at the second chart. Compare late 2011 to late 2017 (the last 6 years of the Key/English government). A measly 2.38 % increase in ‘Real GDP per hour worked’ after six years had passed. In other words, it grew at 0.39% per year. . . Not even HALF A PERCENT — just pathetic from Key and English, considering they had a policy of cramming more migrants into our country.

Even worse than that, now we’re actually going backwards: GDP per capita is negative . . . That was Labour’s parting ‘gift’ to us.

Will Luxon fix our productivity woes? I suspect cramming in more migrants will be his plan. Taking a look at Hansard last week, I couldn’t see any discussion of immigration numbers. Do any MPs think the number is “too high”, “too low”, or just right? . . . Nope, no discussion. Must be ‘verboten’.
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December 21, 2023 11:44am
- cmm
  
  “What really matters is Real GDP per hour worked”
  
  I somewhat agree that that is a far more import measure than what passes for GDP.
  
  GDP minus debt, then divided by population would be a good measuer.
  
  What is most problematic is debt-fuelled growth. It’s like partying on your credit card – very easy to feel rich until you wake up and realise you need to pay it all back.
  
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  December 21, 2023 1:50pm
  - Paulus
    
    I was always taught it was not the Hours worked but what do you achieve in those hours.
    Alien to New Zealand though as our many ethnic division will tell.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:18pm
    - cmm
      
      That’s the productivity number: GDP/hour.
      
      But it’s really bollocks because “productivity” doesn’t mean anything.
      
      Going to the movies and buying popcorn is $30 of productivity. Counts the same as actually making something useful.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:56pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        The margin on popcorn is a good part of what keeps the cinema open and the (probably) minimum wage staff in a job, so I wouldn’t dismiss such an activity as unproductive or non-useful. Perhaps productivity should be “Export GDP/hour”, eliminating internal “swapping labour and money between ourselves” stuff – surely we want to measure internationally tradeable activity.
        
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        December 21, 2023 4:25pm
      - Jack5
        
        The “rock star economy” term, mentioned by Stiff Cheese in his 11.44 post above, was created by Paul Bloxham, HSBC’s chief economist for Australia and New Zealand.
        
        His rock-concert scale enthusiasm was reported gleefully by news media at the time. It was and is rubbish.
        
        The CIA World Factbook currently rates NZ’s GDP at 64th in the world on real (i.e. inflation adjusted) purchasing power parity, and 127th in the world on real GDP growth rate.
        
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        December 21, 2023 4:31pm
- thirteenstars
  
  “What really matters is Real GDP per hour worked. ”
  
  True, and for the very reason that the success of capitalism hinges on the amount of capital invested per worker which raises either directly or indirectly that worker’s productivity and therefore their incomes.
  
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  December 21, 2023 2:04pm
- greybeard
  
  I have struggled for some time to understand the concept , and apparent importance, of “GDP”.
  
  In my opinion the only important measurement of the country’s wealth is the amount of money coming into the country from exports: agricultural goods, manufactured goods, tourism, education of overseas students, technical knowledge etc.
  
  The more money we get from overseas customers and the less money we spend on imports is surely the key to success. The less we spend on imports implies a greater degree of self-sufficiency than at present: this was shown in a dramatic fashion during the Covid epidemic when there was a critical shortage of wall-cladding for new housing, and everyone waited for ages then paid through the nose for it.
  
  Everything else is just moving an ever-decreasing amount of money around and counting the same $$ many times.
  
  It includes a whole lot of transfers of money from one New Zealander to another, which does the country no good at all.
  
  e.g I spend $1 at the dairy: the government takes a percentage of that in GST.
  What is left of that $1 is then divided between the dairy-owner’s suppliers and the dairy-owner as income, after the government gets income tax from the dairy owner.
  
  All of these steps are included in GDP.
  
  That $1 of mine would have been better-off in a bank account gaining interest, as far as I am concerned. Or that $1 could have joined many others in financing an export-earning company.
  Or a NZ wallboard manufacturer !
  
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  December 21, 2023 3:25pm
  - Jack5
    
    International credit agencies are among those who take an interest in GDP and its direction.
    
    These agencies ultimately decide how much New Zealand pays for its overseas borrowing, and even if we can raise money overseas.
    
    International companies considering investing in NZ or marketing to NZ will also be interested in the direction of the country’s GDP.
    
    But I agree with Greybeard that as whole we show far too little interest in our balance of payments.
    
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    December 21, 2023 4:18pm
mandk

and National only care about their rich white buddies …

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301030470/nz-politics-live-govt-announces-50m-mori-immunisation-scheme
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December 21, 2023 12:12pm
- cmm
  
  So $100 per Maori to bribe them into getting kids vaccinated?
  
  What would achieve more (and cost less) would be to tell Maori to start acting like adults and take some responsibility/agency in their lives.
  
  Perpetuating this victim culture hopes nobody – least of all Maori.
  
  If that’s “acting white”, well so be it.
  
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  December 21, 2023 1:46pm
  - rouppe
    
    I guess we need to know whether the $50m is going to be spent on “incentives” to come get vaccinated, or on mobile clinics so that access is not an inhibiting factor.
    
    Be happy for the latter, that’s at least “infrastructure” that can be utilised for other things in between vaccination waves.
    
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    December 21, 2023 2:22pm
    - cmm
      
      I doubt it really needs thought. And I doubt it needs $100 per person either.
      
      Mega Classic Bucket $61.99 should do it. (Really only $53.90 because the government gets the GST back, even less when you consider the tax they will get back). I bet KFC would give you those at well under $50 each if you ordered 500k of them.
      
      Yeah, I know that’s a stereotype, but not nearly as bad as what the government is doing – saying that you have to bribe Maori to get them to do anything good for their kids.
      
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      December 21, 2023 2:52pm
Maggie Pie

ZB have got Francis Cooke filling in today on the Noon – 4 Show.
She actually sounds really really excellent. And quite unwoke.
Shame they can’t give her a permanent slot to replace either of those other two lefty arsehats…. Rocksblah or Rowmannn. I don’t know anyone who can STAND either of them?
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December 21, 2023 12:42pm
- Steve Todd
  
  That would be Frances Cook, Maggie.
  
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  December 21, 2023 1:35pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Do you know her Steve? She sounds like one of us 😎
    
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    December 21, 2023 1:41pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I gave up on ZB long ago. The number of ads is infuriating enough. Then you’ve got the lefty airheads!
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:20pm
Clyde

If you ever need to understand why people like little Willie Jackson need to be removed from the public tit, then have a look and listen to his speech in the House this morning. Not only does he fail to listen to the Chair’s ruling, but he is a f’ing looney. Look and weep. https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=237551
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December 21, 2023 1:23pm
MCōs

I’ve been watching some cricket from the Basin and in the background could see traffic at a standstill running up to the Mt Vic Tunnel
I looked up the history of the wretched thing and found the 2.5m dia pilot for a 2nd tunnel was built in 1974. So that’s fifty years construction has been on hold due to financial constraints
On the other side of the CBD is the three lane Terrace Tunnel, which has been under size for years too
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December 21, 2023 1:49pm
- virtualmark
  
  MCos, as a Wellington resident and ratepayer this article was very interesting … https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350128530/new-cheaper-faster-wellington-transport-plan-piques-interest
  
  I am sceptical a 3km long tunnel could be built for $1b, but I don’t think it would cost $7b either. But it seems a more practical plan than anything I saw from LGWM.
  
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  December 21, 2023 2:15pm
- cmm
  
  A fitting metaphor for central government.
  
  And the Basin was supposed to be underwater. 170 years ago…..
  
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  December 21, 2023 2:36pm
mandk

Either this was crap sub-editing, or it was one hell of a family BBQ:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2023/12/dunedin-couple-just-about-fell-over-after-realising-they-d-won-8-25-million-at-family-bbq.html
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December 21, 2023 2:08pm
- cmm
  
  Normally noteworthy family bbqs end up with someone falling in the fire and grill marks on their face. Winning 8.25M sounds like a step up from that.
  
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  December 21, 2023 2:42pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjuJ94Rg25Q
Buddy Mikaere: Is the Government really racist?
Oh no! The gravy train is losing passengers! Being non raycist is raycist. Where’s my brown priviledge?
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December 21, 2023 2:52pm
- cmm
  
  It is surely racist to say that Maori need to be treated like children and require hand outs to survive.
  
  Until we expect Maori to step up and be equal members of society this tyranny of low expectation will continue to be a self fulfilling prophecy.
  
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  December 21, 2023 3:33pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0pw8A4aMuc
David Seymour Promises to fix Over regulation.
Lots of useful work for this department to do. They need a Face Book page where people can post examples and suggestions.
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December 21, 2023 2:52pm
Swifty

Some very mixed revenue forecasts down on the farm:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/301027258/food-fibre-export-revenue-predicted-to-drop-5-per-cent
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December 21, 2023 2:58pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/301030684/two-men-charged-with-bribing-auckland-council-project-manager
Oh Boy, I can’t wait to see their identities.
Place your bets, folks.
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December 21, 2023 3:19pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  All under Labors watch of course!
  
  Meanwhile, Chippie’s biggest concern still remains whether PM Luxon will pay back 2-grand in Tuition Fees for his Te Reo lessons.
  
  From what we’re hearing, the SFO has $hundreds-of-millions in rorts under investigation due to surface next year. Watch this space.
  
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  December 21, 2023 3:40pm
MCōs

The anti woke police are having a fine time criticizing the judges of the Miss France extravaganza because the winner, who was not the people’s choice, has short hair.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/bizarre-backlash-against-miss-france-winner-due-to-woke-short-hair/news-story/cd1469e505ebc0b51d174331c3792612
I stopped by a cafe on Mt Albert Rd a couple of years ago and Miss NZ walked in. I knew she was Miss NZ because she was wearing the sash.
I said hello & she said hello. I think she was having promo photos taken.
I never knew such competitions were still held here
For those of you who like to classify everyone by ethnicity she was Māori
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December 21, 2023 4:00pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Diamond was Tongan actually Cossie.
  And it would have been longer than…. ‘a couple of years ago’
  
  Just saying.
  
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  December 21, 2023 4:09pm
Swifty

People must be very hungry up north:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505290/duo-charged-over-solar-panel-thefts-at-far-north-telecommunication-sites

Perhaps Efeso Collins can shoot up there in the holidays and run some vegetable gardening workshops – I’m sure it will make a great difference to crime levels.
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December 21, 2023 4:12pm
Maggie Pie

What about all the Labor losers calling into ZB complaining about…. ‘the 90 Day Trial Period’

You can ACTUALLY tell just by the sound of their voice they’d be useless unemployable morons!

LOL!!
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December 21, 2023 5:38pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, the lefty losers come out of the woodwork when the usual hosts are holidaying, probably either retired or unemployed. I sometimes listen for a laugh.
  
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  December 21, 2023 6:04pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    ME TOOO!
    You get all the lefty retards like ‘Chris’ and ‘Housing Sue’ et al, who would never DARE call Heather or Kerry 😀
    
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    December 21, 2023 6:43pm
Swifty

Here’s Martyn Bradbury’s latest if you need a laugh:

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/12/21/government-attack-on-trans-community-unacceptable-culture-war-bigotry/

It’s funny, I didn’t hear a peep from him when the Labour government brought in rules to deny public funding for sports bodies who did not meet their gender and race quotas at governance levels.

That policy had exactly the same effect as that he’s having a cry about today. It denied people positions purely on the basis of their race and sex.

The bloke’s positions are incoherent.
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December 21, 2023 6:21pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Certainly blown Shaneel’s chances of ever getting an All-Black trial 😀 😀 😀
  
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  December 21, 2023 6:53pm
Paul

Why oh why didn’t Maori just farm the Moa instead of just wiping them out, they could have had an endless supply of giant chicken!
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December 21, 2023 8:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Moa were slow breeders.
  
  A more interesting question, I reckon, is why didn’t East Polynesians bring chickens or piggies with them when they headed for NZ?
  
  https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1320412111
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9495175/#:~:text=Domestic%20pigs%20(Sus%20scrofa)%20were,speaking%20people%20out%20of%20Asia.
  
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  December 21, 2023 9:17pm
  - Swifty
    
    Fascinating, isn’t it, to think about what happened and when, and what didn’t happen and why etc.
    
    And isn’t it wonderful to be living in the time of DNA analysis and being able to use it to trace population origins and movements.
    
    I just love science.
    
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    December 21, 2023 9:27pm
  - greybeard
    
    Because they didn’t “head for NZ”. They didn’t know NZ was here, how could they ?
    Their arrival here was totally fortuitous, a “suck it and see” event.
    
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    December 22, 2023 7:28am
NZer In Exile

According to The Australian newspaper (a reasonably sane rag) today Luxo has told Albo that NZ will NOT be allowing AUKUS nuke vessels to visits to NZ ports.
Can anybody tell me what this silliness is all about? Is NZ on the whole still that pathetic and precious?
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December 21, 2023 8:46pm
- MCōs
  
  Allowing nuke powered/armed vessels into NZ would require a law change, as you know and right now that would be political suicide no matter how silly you think that might be
  
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  December 21, 2023 10:18pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    And why would a law change be political suicide if the majority are OK with it???
    
    More about lefties bluffing that their (minority) boots are bigger than they really are?
    
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    December 21, 2023 10:21pm
  - Drone
    
    There will come a time in the not too distant future when the “Green Lobby” push for the banning of fossil fuels on container ships and they adopt nuclear power like the navy ships. At that point, we accept nuclear-powered ships or we shrivel up and die..
    
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    December 22, 2023 6:51am

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