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November 15, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 November 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

DoC are consulting on introducing parking fees in selected national parks. I see that “no change” is not one of the options.

This country is going to the dogs. Once upon a time it was a New Zealander’s birthright to be able to visit the great outdoors without let or hindrance. Not any more.

And if you want to know why DoC need the money, address your concerns to

G Robertson
University of Otago
Dunedin
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November 15, 2024 8:01am
- rangitoto
  
  Catching up with Bali. Back in the 1980’s I recall riding a motorcycle up to Kintamani to view the Mt Batur crater. They were charging to park at the best lookout. Not sure if this was official or just enterprising locals. I didn’t begrudge them anyway.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:05am
  - Colville
    
    we went to Batur earlier this year as part of an organised trip… masked thugs stopped our mini bus and collected a fee for letting us past…. all very organised and we certainly were not getting in any other way. Not a lot different to the border guards in Chile losing our passports until we came up with some cash so they could “find” them again!
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:40pm
  - Paulus
    
    For many years Auckland Zoo had a car park for which a small fee was paid to the gentleman there.
    Many years later it was found that he was doing the whole thing alone, and collecting the money, whereas it was thought he was an Auckland City Council employee.
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:54pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Many stories around that. It was before the days of EFTPOS?
      The fees were paid to the Zoo, and the guy picked up the money each day or week by someone who the Zoo people thought was a Council collector. He wasn’t!
      Well that’s what I read a long, long time ago.
      
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      November 15, 2024 3:35pm
- sirknz
  
  Wonder if the charge would apply to people from Aotearoa?
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:45am
  - pdm
    
    Probably not because people from that mythical place get all of the perks.
    
    New Zealanders of course will definitely have to pay.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:59am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It’s free. Everything in Aotearoa is free.
    The Net Taxpayers of New Zealand pay for it.
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:38pm
Benedict Yu

“The Hīkoi mō te Tiriti rolled into Kirikiriroa, the city at the centre of regional dairy powerhouse, Waikato….”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360486715/hikoi-mo-te-tiriti-arrives-hamilton-war-words-arrives-capital

With journalism like this, we are doomed. Clown 🤡 journalists cheering on a circus 🤹‍♂️.

The marchers are simply caught up in hysteria. How many of them have read the Bill?

As for the National MPs, it is a disgrace. How many National MPs privately agree with David Seymour? The best we get is Chris Luxon saying the Bill is “divisive” and Louise Upston saying that it is “simplistic”. Well thanks a bunch. How insightful. 😩

I hope that the Select Committee process engenders informed debate. I would like to read reasoned submissions on both sides of the argument.
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November 15, 2024 8:05am
- imalwaysright
  
  Correct on all points.
  NZ has to transition from their bewilderment at Luxon’s position and realise that it is real and, unfortunately, National policy.
  Maybe, instead of changing Deputy PM, we should change PM.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:12am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    What a waste of a post, unless there is a leadership vote there will never be a a change be of pm, it’s utterly pathetic even suggesting.
    
    You lot blame Luxon all the time but simply ignore the fact that Peter’s and NZF are bitterly opposed to the law.
    
    Nats yesterday have clearly stated they are taking all mention of the treaty out of law, every person is to be treated as equal. The treaty principles bill is aimed at the judiciary which means taking the treaty out of law will in fact do exactly what Seymour’s bill is trying to state.
    
    Why do people on here act just like the hate filled left when they are not getting their way.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:54am
    - Colville
      
      Luxon is doing exactly what he said he would do pre election.
      I for one cant criticize him for that.
      If all politicians did exactly what they promised to do the world would be a lot better place!
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:03pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        It amazes me the amount of people who think he is doing the opposite of what he promised
        
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        November 15, 2024 1:51pm
      - judith8409121
        
        i absolutely can criticise him. He’s acting like a fool. Clearly he could say that nz should be equal before the law and the government but luxon and national would rather have a 2-tier society where one group is treated like cash cows for the other and thats because luxon and national like the idea of starting a maori monachy. that would be luxon speaking the truth. until he does that then hes a failure
        
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        November 15, 2024 8:12pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Apparently I’m not allowed to reply to you G.
      Maybe the censors think you aren’t up for a reply.
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:59pm
    - leoj
      
      That’s what the Principles Bill states but your buddy, the woke, weak Luxon has also stated that he doesn’t find one thing he agrees with.
      
      Why can’t WE the people have a referendum on this?
      
      I know why. The Nats are too chicken and spineless Luxon is leading the retreat.
      
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      November 15, 2024 1:07pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Peters is opposed only to this Bill!
      Maybe because he didnt author it?
      
      You seem to have forgotten NZFs attempt to do a treaty bill 2005…
      
      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/47HansS_20050608_00001024/peters-winston-principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-deletion
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:27pm
  - Tricati
    
    The fact Goldsmith put out a release yesterday to National Party supporters trying to explain their position is ‘ explaining is losing’, and I fear National have lost the plot on this.
    For all their noise prior to the election of ‘turning back’ the Maorification of the public service, health and education; apart from removing the Māori health authority, there is still a great deal of Māori influence over many areas in NZ – even to names of the State entities.
    I really commend David Seymour for his fortitude in the face over overwhelming opposition, and standing his ground.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:01am
    - Colville
      
      I got that email.
      Made me want to puke.
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:41pm
      - leoj
        
        The namby-pamby Nats to the rescue, er… defeat.
        
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        November 15, 2024 1:09pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        You mean you were reminded they are taking a different approach from ACT to get the exact same result, don’t come back saying it is not the same result, because Seymour has stated this bill is all about treaty in legal parts of the society, what is underway and promised by Nats and NZF is taking all aspects of the treaty out of law, my all means puke away.
        
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        November 15, 2024 1:55pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Not true, what he said was their policy at the election, they are not explaining, they are saying what they promised they would do, and once again he is ridiculed.
      
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      November 15, 2024 1:52pm
    - Paulus
      
      It would appear that few if any of the Public Service organisation have taken any notice of what the Government has required.
      But that is not surprising as was said yesterday one third of the Coalition has passed so only two thirds to go, so we will continue to do what we have always done, as Jacinda let us, as a law unto ourselves.
      Only the PSCommission can sack us no Minister has that power.
      Good luck Brian Roche, the waterfall is greater than you will ever see, as has been allowed to develop since Helen Clark’s time.
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:02pm
    - judith8409121
      
      i;m drafting a reply which is basically unless you come out and state that a 2-tier society is not acceptable i will never ever vote for you and your racist positions ever again. goodbye natiuonal
      
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      November 15, 2024 8:13pm
- BananaLlama
  
  What if you called it a Hikoi and nobody turned up.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:16am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Imagine how many would be on the hikoi if the TV cameras had stayed away.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:55am
    - AitchW
      
      Fat chance. It’s a lazy easy story guaranteed to get eyeballs. Tv equivalent of click bait.
      The ‘journalists’ report breathlessly what the viewer can see and lap up and parrot the racist rhetoric espoused by the uninformed marchers.
      Bring back Perigo, Holmes, and Edwards. Yes, I’m old.
      
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      November 15, 2024 10:02am
  - JackRabbit
    
    What if you called it a Hikoi and nobody turned up.
    
    What if you called a Hikoi (walking) and everyone arrived by cars / vans / buses?
    
    Oh Wait….
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:33pm
    - Colville
      
      Well cold southerlies and rain here in Hawkes Bay…that will thin them out a bit tomorrow 🙂
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:42pm
      - Jethrod
        
        Yes, and hopefully it will pour down until at least at least Tuesday.
        
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        November 15, 2024 1:47pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Apparently the hikoi has swelled to 10000 today after saying it was 30000 on Wednesday
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:56pm
- Souvlaki
  
  Upston was a patronising , condescending ,” born to rule”, airhead I thought in the house yesterday.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes. She reminded me of someone.😩
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:21am
  - Rintintin
    
    She should hope that the other 80 percent do not wake up one day
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:30am
- Surely Knott
  
  How many NZers will feel free to make an honest submission for equal rights? Like the unvaccinated, will equal rights advocates be subject to social consequences in their jobs and society. Will government staff and academics , doctors and real estate agents who don’t support race based privilege be looked over for promotion or funding. You betcha.
  
  A referendum or private polling is needed
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:22am
- Cassandra
  
  There’s a photo of the protesters walking across Auckland bridge in this morning’s UK Times. BTW King:is 76 today. (14th in UK).
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:24am
- sirknz
  
  How do people who are supposed to be walking, roll?
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:28am
- nathie
  
  “The Hīkoi rolled into… “. They sure did “roll in” as in via their cars and vans!
  
  Popping up at one city one day and then another city the next. Clearly little walking is involved!
  
  How come the MSM doesn’t mention this? Geez don’t they care about the unnecessary CO2 emissions anymore?!! Where are the pictures of the Hikoi cars all parking up en-mass? Bet the protesters won’t be paying into any parking meters eh bro!
  
  It was left to Shane Jones to alert the public about this the other day on Jamie Mackay’s show when he called the Hikoi a Ka-koi (car-koi)!
  
  Surely the likes of Dame Whina Cooper would not be amused about this unauthentic “Pop Up Hikoi”!
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:29am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    hīkoi
    
    1. (verb) (-tia) to step, stride, march, walk.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:41am
    - imalwaysright
      
      hīkoi
      
      1. (verb) (-tia) to step, stride, march, walk, something to do, why not, nuthin’ else on, cops can’t do me for the ankle bracelet, get on da’ telly, something to say, departure from my miserable existence to go and save Hone Tamahere’s access to millions of free dollars that I will never see a single one of.
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:05pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    We are supposed to believe it is some kind of Trail of Tears. In fact it’s a slow-motion Sunday drive that leaves in its wake towns where not a drumstick of KFC can be found.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:21am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Some random thoughts and observations from yesterday.
  
  At one point I thought a cooking pot was going to appear with a fire under it and poor old Gerry boiled up for dinner.
  That young Maori girl is a pretty little thing. Pity about the anger. She needs to take a chill pill and relax,
  Christopher Luxon is the Neville Chamberlain of our time and like Chamberlain his enemies can smell his weakness and lack of ability to take swift decisive action. Unless Luxon gets a grip on The Maori Problem and quickly it will all end in tears.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:37am
  - oldpark
    
    Watching a report from overseas on a Television News Channel on just what was being enacted and carried out in NZs alleged shredded Democracy Parliament by a young 22 year old female .
    
    The commenters said people like that belong more on TikTok .Go figure .
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:55am
  - cmm
    
    I think that is extremely unfair on Chamberlain.
    
    Chamberlain is often painted as a whimpy appeaser, but he needed to do that to buy Britain time to arm up and get Britain on a war footing. Particularly noteworthy was the ramping up of production of Hurricanes and Spitfires. Every week of delay helped to even the odds.
    
    Strategically speaking, Chamberlain did exactly the right thing.
    
    Here, Luxon is just whimping out with no strategic plan.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:10am
    - David Garrett
      
      cmm: Yours is largely a revisionist take on Chamberlain. You conveniently forget that right up to the time he was appointed PM on 10 May 1940, Churchill was being ridiculed, and painted as a warmonger. Chamberlain wanted Halifax as PM, and he was a committed appeaser – even at that late stage. There isn’t a shadow of a doubt that if he had become PM “peace negotiations” with Hitler would have immediately followed – Halifax made that quite clear that that would be his intention.
      
      It is equally clear that Hitler would have quickly run roughshod over any such agreement, just as he had with all the others he had made. He is on record as referring to Chamberlain as a “worm” after the Munich agreement in September 1938.
      
      It is true that other British polis were finally walking up to the threat in the later 1930’s – after ridiculing and mocking Churchill as “yesterday’s man” and “a warmonger” for more than ten years, and comparing him unfavourably to Chamberlain, who was promising “peace in our time” after being humiliated by Hitler in Munich.
      
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      November 15, 2024 9:58am
      - cmm
        
        DG: I think Britain was between a rock and a hard place.
        
        The people of Britain didn’t want another war while still feeling the effects of WW1.
        
        There is no way they were ready for war and they needed the phoney war period to tool up.
        
        If the Brits had tried to make a stand they would have been smashed and not have been able to recover.
        
        Just as with politics today, we should not confuse what is said publicly with what was going on.
        
        The “peace in our time” talk clearly does not match what was going on on the ground.
        
        Aircraft production was being ramped up and was quickly exceeding German production. Troop training and arms production went through the roof. By the time the Battle of Britain happened (July 1940 – just 2 months after Churchill took over), Britain was largely ready.
        
        So clearly the “peace in our times” words did not match reality.
        
        If you think that Churchill was responsible for tooling up Britain in 2 months then you clearly have little understanding of what it takes to build factories etc.
        
        Churchill was certainly the right war leader – having the right bluster and character to be a war leader. But the build up required someone more like Chamberlain.
        
        Chamberlain was an accountant and businessman by training. He was a good planner. Those are exactly the skills needed for an efficient build up.
        
        Historians are people of words and tend to take words seriously. I think it is far more instructive to look at action.
        
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        November 15, 2024 10:19am
      - David Garrett
        
        cmm: No, Churchill could certainly not have ramped up aircraft production in two months. But with respect, it is quite incorrect to say the Brits were “ready” for the Battle of Britain: when it started, the Luftwaffe had three or four times the number of aircraft the Brits had – and many of their pilots had years of experience from the Spanish Civil War, and the smashing of Poland from the air as well as on the ground.
        
        Every reputable historian I have ever read ascribes luck, radar and Sir Keith Park – possibly not in that order – as the reasons the RAF was able to hold the bastards off until the weather turned in September 1940.
        
        You are suggesting Chamberlain was playing a clever double game: talking about “peace in our time” for public consumption, but simultaneously putting a cracker up the armaments and aircraft factories to increase production. I have never read any evidence to support such a theory.
        
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        November 15, 2024 10:32am
      - gravedodger
        
        That is the history as I have understood it David,
        Appeasement was the way forward as Halifax, Chamberlain ( and many others it must be said) desired it, hoping the Crocodile would eat them last. They just failed to understand that Hitler never held to a pledge.
        It was Churchill leaving the war cabinet meeting that might have voted four to one to open peace talks through Mussolini, and going to the wider Cabinet actually running Britain where, after a speech from WSC, gave him a standing ovation in support of fighting on, thus ending Chamberlain’s support for Halifax who folded like a hired suit.
        Possibly where WW2 was decided.
        The League of Nations had been exposed as the Faux Peace outfit it was.
        Alsace-Lorraine, The Rhineland, Austria, The Sudetenland, the rest of Czechoslovakia, did not satisfy Hitler, neither did Poland.
        He wanted the entire lands west of the Caucasus, then who knows what next.
        
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        November 15, 2024 10:57am
      - cmm
        
        DG: I agree 100% that the Brits were not in an optimal position for the Battle of Britain, but they were sufficiently ready in that they managed to win.
        
        If the Battle of Britain had happened a few months earlier it is unlikely they would have done nearly as well.
        
        Remember that at that stage they were producing over 1000 aircraft a month and were still ramping up. They were also training pilots etc. Every week of delay significantly moved the needle in their capability.
        
        On the ground they were building radar stations, training staff to man them and developing the doctrines that were used in the defence of Britain. All that took time.
        
        While the Germans did have a numerical advantage, the British had a few things on their side to tilt the field a bit. As you say, radar was a huge factor. So too were their methods and tactics they had built.
        
        One of the larger factors was also the defender’s advantage. As a general rule of thumb in military, an attacking force needs three times the strength of a defending force. Of course that number would be skewed by radar etc which would likely make the number higher.
        
        I served my military time in logistics. This is very boring when compared to the adrenaline-fueled heroism of battle. However the boring logistical/accounting stuff is incredibly important in winning wars. The heroes can’t do their work without ammo, food and weapons.
        
        That past gives me a tendency to look at wars through a logistical lens – one often not considered in the history books.
        
        In 1935, Britain produced only 893 military aircraft (pretty crap underpowered aircraft too). It was in October 1936 that they really started to ramp up the factories to produce the key aircraft of the Battle of Britain: Hurricanes, Spitfires etc and by 1939 production was almost 10 fold (7940 aircraft).
        
        Most histories focus on the exciting stuff, but there’s often a very different picture in the boring stuff of logistics.
        
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        November 15, 2024 11:07am
      - David Garrett
        
        cmm; Those comments on logistics provide a genuinely interesting perspective – no sarcasm intended. As as a person who has served in the military you have a significant advantage over me.
        
        We could go round and round in circles endlessly on this post mortem 80 years later. So I will just leave it to Sir Charles Portal, Chief of Air Staff from 1940 until the end of the war (speaking of Sir Keith Park, who being a a SAFA, you may not have heard of):
        
        “If any one man could be said to have won the Battle of Britain he did”
        
        Park, a New Zealander who had distinguished himself in WW I, was commander of 11 group, which defended London and the South East in the Battle of Britain.
        
        It is beyond doubt that many in the RAF could see what was coming and ramped up aircraft production; obviously Chamberlain’s government would have had to approve that expenditure. But that doesn’t change the fact that he was at his core an appeaser, who thought Hitler could be reasoned with.
        
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        November 15, 2024 11:44am
      - Colville
        
        Interesting comments on the Battle of (or for) Brittan.
        
        Remembering also that at the time of the air war the Allies were also getting absolutely smashed in the Atlantic by German U Boats. 300,000 tonnes a month lost? 50 whole ships and crews.
        
        Hard to build or arm planes with all the materials at the bottom of the sea.
        
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        November 15, 2024 12:52pm
      - Dave
        
        DG @10.32: “luck, radar and Sir Keith Park”.
        
        Yes, except radar was just the front end of the world’s first integrated air defence system created by Dowding (who deserves as much credit as Park for victory) from May 1936 with trained observers, effective telephone and radio communications, a central data filtering centre, AA guns and barrage balloons, which was tested and improved through operations research as problems emerged. The observers were important because the radar was outward looking only and could not detect any course change by Luftwaffe bombers after they crossed the coast.
        
        The result was that interception rates increased from 50-60% in mid 1930s practice to 90% plus.
        
        One has to say also that while the RAF won the BoB through its superior preparation, the Luftwaffe also lost it through inferior preparation. Bf 109s plumbed for a drop tank did not go into production till September 1940, thus limiting operations over Britain to 15 minutes; Luftwaffe intelligence was abysmal – unable to determine the effectiveness of different tactics, unable to identify weak points in RAF Fighter Command, its loss and resupply rates; and Luftwaffe leadership was poor – pre-war Luftwaffe doctrine focussed on first attaining air superiority by sustained attacks on enemy airfields and proved highly effective in Poland and the USSR, but instead vacillated in the BoB, partly in response to pressure from Hitler.
        
        It’s to the RAF’s shame (and probably Churchill’s as well) that both Dowding and Park were shabbily treated after victory.
        
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        November 15, 2024 3:14pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        It is equally clear that Hitler would have quickly run roughshod over any such agreement, just as he had with all the others he had made.
        
        This triggered a thought.
        Copy this sentence with the word Netanyahu for Hitler and replace agreement with UN Resolutions
        
        It is equally clear that Netanyahu would quickly run roughshod over any such UN Resolution, just as he had with all the others they had made.
        
        History repeats in so many different ways. 🙂
        
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        November 15, 2024 5:10pm
  - muzled
    
    That young Maori girl is the same one who claimed her house had been ram raided in the leadup to the election.
    
    When the police were later asked what the outcome of the investigation was they said something along the lines of – there is no investigation.
    
    ie – it was all a bunch of lies.
    
    Of course there was a huge media outcry about racism at the time and it seemed to very much tip the scales enough to get her elected.
    
    And as Haimona Gray said about TPM – it will end in tears, just not theirs.
    
    They’ll get someone else to do their dirty work and sit back and play the victim. Yet again… It’s all they know after all.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:06am
    - Paulus
      
      She beat Mahuta in the election !
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:06pm
      - muzled
        
        Indeed, and quite possibly because of the publicity she got from her ‘story time’…
        
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        November 15, 2024 4:16pm
      - Greenbanana
        
        Was it due to the backlash against Labour maybe.
        
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        November 15, 2024 6:59pm
      - judith8409121
        
        between mahuta and this screamer – people voted for the girl that created he bigger lie – and thats the te pati maori supporters – they love a good lie
        
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        November 15, 2024 8:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        That’s deliberate..
        
        Nanaia is well over any affinity to Labour.
        
        Nanaia Mahuta’s allegiance is to Waikato-Tainui…as is Hana Maipi-Clarke’s.
        
        And Waikato-Tainui are currently linking up with TPM… or at least playing TPM off with Labour.
        
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        November 15, 2024 9:54pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    It’s only going to end in tears for Labour. The anger at labour MPs getting involved in the haka is breath taking, to hear HDA yesterday read out a text from a life time voter saying I am going to vote a coalition party, I will never vote for these soft c…s (roosters) like Jackson ever again. The attack on Luxon for not being here is utterly a pathetic petty argument, the APEC date has been on the PMs calendar for years, and even Ardern was penciled in on this date some years shot
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:37am
    - cmm
      
      I expect the lifetime voter will get over it, especially when they realise that Luxon won’t do anything different.
      
      I suspect the lifetime voter won’t lurch all the way to Act.
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:09am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        The life time voter was disgusted how Labour MPs joined TPM on the floor, f….this Luxon bullshit, the Nats have yesterday stated clearly they have begun the process of taking anything to do with the treaty out of law, issue by issue, they said they would do that at the beginning, it is backed by NZF who would vote the Seymour bill down even if ants supported it, but yeah it’s s as lil Luxon fault. Seymour is to bl-me for the mess right at the begging, he refused at the begging to rule out lies by the left about the treaty being changed, right there was the problem.
        
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        November 15, 2024 11:23am
      - Bevan
        
        I suspect the lifetime voter won’t lurch all the way to Act.
        
        They dont need to, they just need to replace the long time National voter who has gone to Act – makes a stronger National and stronger Act.
        
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        November 15, 2024 12:01pm
      - Paulus
        
        Correct, but only the Party Vote may change !
        No longer Double Blue.
        
        3 0
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        November 15, 2024 2:08pm
- peterwn
  
  Kirikiriroa – Is this Morrinsville?
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:40am
  - pdm
    
    Maybe more like Kihikihi’s sister town.
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:48am
    - Countrygirl
      
      And a cuzzie of Katikati
      
      7 0
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      November 15, 2024 9:00am
      - Jethrod
        
        All west of Phuckarewarewa
        
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        November 15, 2024 1:55pm
- Eastlander
  
  There really are no reasoned arguments on other side. Even Baron Cooke’s discourse in the state-owned enterprises case is astonishingly vacuous. Since there is no sensible case for appointing the worst people in the country as a supervening fourth branch of government, the ‘te Tiriti’ position leans heavily on the argument that this is already required as a matter of law. That necessarily also entails gross falsification of history to hide the actual treaty and replace it with what maori nationalists and liberals think it should have been. You’ve heard Modlik’s line, that’s about as reasoned as it gets.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:44am
- John Loveridge
  
  I caught a promo for One News last night in which they referred to the wee young thing from Te Party delivering a “spine-tingling” haka in Parliament. I’ve often said that journalists should have their adjectives surgically removed: that single example told me everything I needed to know about One’s bias in this particular matter.
  
  All I saw was a very young woman behaving appallingly rudely, interrupting her peers and betters, acting provocatively and aggressively, bulging and rolling her eyeballs, and poking her tongue out.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:45am
  - Eastlander
    
    The haka looks stupid, doubly so when performed by a silly young woman who thinks being descended from a string of bungling cannibal bandits makes her an aristocrat.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:54am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      The biggest dope was the cowboy, waving his hat around, and Hipkins must pull his misbehaving MPs into line after joining in from the floor
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:37am
      - Eastlander
        
        Yes, that man is without a doubt the biggest jackass ever seen in the New Zealand Parliament. As for Chippy pulling them in? You’d have more luck asking Swarbrick to do it.
        
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        November 15, 2024 4:17pm
  - AitchW
    
    Nasty tremor in her left hand too. Early onset Parkinson’s perhaps?
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:04am
  - muzled
    
    I unfortunately saw it via utoob and against my better judgement watched 1 news for the first time in about 15 years.
    
    I guess that’s what you do when you have no reasoned response.
    
    It was pathetic.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:19am
  - Flossie
    
    I stand to be corrected here but I always thought hakas were a Man thing. Didn’t think the females were involved much less leading one.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:33am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes, and only certain women are allowed Mike as well, some even paint them on and don’t always have them, pretty sure that Green no that looks and sounds like she belongs in the TPM rabble has had it before, but she didn’t have Mike this week, that Mariano Forbes I think doesn’t always have it
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:43am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Should have read Moko
        
        3 1
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        November 15, 2024 1:59pm
    - jon
      
      Yet another HAKA, yet another YAWN!
      
      2 1
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      November 15, 2024 3:53pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Joined by several MPs from Labour , yesterday was an utter disgrace from the left, the right, and centre right conducted themselves as a member of the Kings representatives with decorum.
    
    Great to see Mani-Clark was not just kicked out for the day, but she was expelled from parliament, and she will not be paid while expelled.
    
    Big Jerry was quite grumpy
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:35am
    - Scooter
      
      Big Jerry is an understatement, looks more and more like Jabber the Hutt.
      
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      November 15, 2024 7:38pm
  - Paulus
    
    I know I cannot call her a Silly Little Girl !
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:09pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  On Sky News last night Andrew Bolt showed the shambles in Parliament and then commented that the 17% were dumb thinking they could take on the other 83% and win. I thought his comments were interesting coming from an outside observer. Often its the sideline that sees more of the game.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:46am
  - lifesgood
    
    Well, yes, but the 17% are a bunch of ignorant hot heads who are being more and more emboldened. Who knows what they’ll do next. It’s high time the speaker of the house brought back dress codes and behaviour codes to the house, i.e. no silly cowboy hats, no Palestinian scarves etc. Wasn’t there a big fuss over Seymour wearing an ACT badge. Ye Gods, it’s all good for the Maori but not for anyone else. Brownlee is weak and pathetic and the rabble know it.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:54am
    - Ghost
      
      Make a submission next time the standing orders committie review the dress code
      
      7 3
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      November 15, 2024 11:15am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No 17% are not, I would guess 5%
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:44am
  - Inandout
    
    last, many of those fleeing this country see this debating chamber circus by a minority as a further reason to leave.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:05am
    - Eastlander
      
      Where are they going to go? If they’re expecting to avoid this sort of thing in Australia or Canada they’re in for a rude awakening.
      
      9 2
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      November 15, 2024 12:06pm
      - julesnzuk
        
        UK. We have problems here of course but it’s quite nice living in the Imperial Motherland, with no Treaty of Waitangi crap, no nonsense about “de-colonisation” and no insane talk of some people being “in partnership” with the Crown.
        
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        November 16, 2024 3:45am
    - Ghost
      
      Do they? I know several that have recently left. The only reason they left was for better money. Also I can’t think of a single one of those I know who have left who have ever been interested in parliament or would know what takes place in the house.
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:14pm
      - julesnzuk
        
        It’s all tied together. Without a functioning legislature and judiciary we won’t have an economy capable of paying people decent wages and salaries. The Maori crap is the biggest thing holding NZ back and is certainly putting me off ever returning.
        
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        November 16, 2024 3:47am
  - Swifty
    
    The Maori Party is currently polling at 2.3%.
    
    That’s a bit over one in fifty voters.
    
    The majority of Maori and the overwhelming majority of everyone else want nothing to do with them.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:35am
    - PurplePen
      
      It’s estimated that 16% of maori voted for TPM. The remaining 84% spread across all the other parties.
      
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      November 15, 2024 1:42pm
      - Swifty
        
        Indeed.
        
        3 0
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        November 15, 2024 2:19pm
    - Flossie
      
      This Maori is ashamed to admit to being of that ilk!
      
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      November 15, 2024 6:35pm
- artemisia
  
  I’ve been wondering what the ongoing impact will be as some funding for specific Maori purposes is being wound back, stopped, stricter outcomes required to continue. No hosepipes, more accountability, fewer chances to ‘redirect’ to noncontracted purposes.
  
  Across the board there is a truckload of $$ at risk, some race-based, some not washing its face, some policies have changed, some ‘there’s a cost of living crisis’.
  
  One example of changed policies – school lunches where some say up to 2,000 jobs will be lost. Some will be transferred to the new supplier/s under the vulnerable employee policy but by no means all.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:36am
- zulumonster
  
  Another angle taken up by our esteemed 4th Estate is that during yesterdays debate “the Prime Minister was nowhere to be seen.”
  A little disingenuous considering he was off to attend APEC, a summit so important that he was roundly criticised by the same media luvvies for not attending last year, because he was trying to form a coalition!
  He obviously needs to work on his bilocation skills to allow him to be at both events simultaneously.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:41am
  - Paulus
    
    APEC more important to New Zealand against the Maori Pantomine ensuing now.
    Who cares what these many deadbeats do ?
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:11pm
- Paulus
  
  I believe that Luxon will not understand at the next election why National’s share will drop and ACT’s will go up.
  Peters’s health will preclude him leading the NZ First Party, despite the excellent job he is doing as Foreign Affairs and Deputy PM, which Seymour takes over until the election.
  Can bover boy Shane keep the NZF votes up – possibly, but nevertheless he is also doing a good job !
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:28am
  - Colville
    
    Well its not working that way currently.
    National is up and ACT is down from ’23 election result.
    
    …and I am an ACT voter!
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:13pm
  - AitchW
    
    Jones talks a good game. I believe he sees himself as a great orator but I wonder if he can walk the talk. I think not.
    Peters is NZF.
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:59pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Peters is standing at the next election
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:06pm
  - kowtow
    
    Bover boy?
    
    He’s all blather .
    
    Never forget those clowns put Ardern in . And backed the oil and gas ban.
    
    NZF are just taking the piss.And well paid for it.
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:29pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Utter rubbish. yesterday’s poll has Nat’s at 38.8%, slightly up on election night, don’t try and suggest an issue they have told the country from day one will change any bloody thing, if so, it would have shown up by now, this crap about Nat’s dropping at the election is utter crap, who dropped last election? let’s not forget Act were polling at 17% 4 months before the election, until Seymour’s mouth stated he could sit on the cross benches, middle voters will never forget that smug arrogant threat.
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:05pm
    - julesnzuk
      
      He was being principled. If “middle voters” see that as a “smug, arrogant threat” then they are a soaking wet, pathetic lot.
      
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      November 16, 2024 3:52am
  - julesnzuk
    
    I hope you’re right! My fear is that the electorate is wet and will stick with National because they’re establishment. There’s also not yet quite enough depth in the ACT team. (I am an ACT voter).
    
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    November 16, 2024 3:50am
- Philview
  
  I had the National Party email this morning explaining their position. It is obvious they don’t understand the wider implications of what is happening in the country. Waiting in the wings in Opposition is an extreme Government who are going to push through a version he puapua. The only way to stop this is to seek a proactive mandate from the people now that says NO to separatist governance.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:37am
  - Ghost
    
    Futire governments don’t have to respect the result of a referendum. Labou, greens and maori will not respect it and will repeal it
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:04am
  - pdm
    
    `The only way to stop this is to seek a proactive mandate from the people now that says NO to separatist governance.’
    
    Tell them that pv.
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:17pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    What they are doing is creating the very same state as the treaty principles bill, taking at mention of the treaty out of law is why Seymour brought in the bill, its the very same result, and they were not explaining, they were reminded the deluded what their policy plus NZFs policy has been from day one
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Democrats Warn Abolishing Department Of Education Could Result In Kids Being Too Smart To Vote For Democrats. Heaven forbid they learn math.
Applies to Labour as well I guess.

https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-warn-abolishing-department-of-education-could-result-in-kids-being-too-smart-to-vote-for-democrats?
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November 15, 2024 8:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just think. Chris Luxon could have been a trailblazer. He could have abolished the New Zealand Ministry of Education and its more than 4,000 staff.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:14am
  - Scott
    
    Umm, Luxon didn’t run on abolishing the Ministry of education. There would have been very little support from the electorate on that idea.
    
    Luxon is doing well. National is dealing with race issues and has repealed much of the previous government’s policies such as 3 waters and Maori health authority.
    
    For some reason many here on the right want Luxon to head up a one term govt?
    
    Luxon and Peters are heading in the right direction on race. Erica Stanford is doing well on righting the education ship.
    
    But there are some on the right for whom nothing this govt does will ever be enough? Sad 🤔
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:53am
    - leoj
      
      [Mod – deleted]
      
      The namby-pamby Nats are going down in the polls while ACT are going up.
      
      Luxon is both weak and woke. Too much like Key and we are only too aware that the Nats are do-nothings when it comes to hard decisions.
      
      The maori seats should have gone in 08 but Key chickened out. Luxon has a buck-buck problem also.
      
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      November 15, 2024 10:11am
      - Ghost
        
        No, National are up 3% in the latest poll, act, nz first, greens, maori all down. Around 16% think the treaty is a main issue
        
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        November 15, 2024 11:12am
      - leoj
        
        [ Mod : We do not enter into discussion. If you persist there is a holiday in your future. If unhappy with this notion take it up with DPF ]
        
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        November 15, 2024 1:14pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Curia poll shows you are wrong, Nat’s up 3.9% yesterday, Act down 1%, no one is interested in the one issue rant of people on here, and most understand taking the treaty out of law as they are now doing one by one does exactly the same thing as the treaty principles bill
        
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        November 15, 2024 2:13pm
      - Sacha
        
        Yes. We can blame Key for the state of parliament.
        He should have kept his word.
        But the current Nats are displaying their naivete by apparently believing that words on paper will control the current rabble occupying the Maori seats.
        I would have more faith in the Coalition if they all agreed to remove them before the next election – and deal effectively with the resultant disruption.
        
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        November 15, 2024 5:50pm
    - Interested Party
      
      Slowly slowly catch the monkey, the referendum option is one way. Let’s hope the Nats and NZF do progressively wind back / modify all the bad laws of the last 4 decades
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:19am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Thats what the email from Nats was about, it reminds voters they have begun what they said they would do and take each mention of the treaty out of all law, one by one, giving exactly the same result as the treaty principles bill does
        
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        November 15, 2024 2:14pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      What does the electorate know about the Ministry of Education? Try finding 1 in 100 people that could explain what those 4000 people do. Can you tell me what they do?
      
      Abolishing import licencing was unpopular in 1984.
      
      It is the role of Prime Ministers to lead.
      
      12 3
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      November 15, 2024 12:17pm
- All_on_Red
  
  “Applies to Labour as well”
  Indeed, its not too much of a stretch to get this;
  
  ‘Education experts concur that empowering parents to run their own schools could result in unapproved, non-Communist ideas being taught to susceptible young minds. “The impact on our loyal future electorate could be devastating,” said Education Consultant Rosemary Hipkins. “Children might learn terrible National things, like math. Voters knowing math would be an existential threat to the Labour party and the Teachers Unions.”
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Labour just don’t understand numbers. Never will.
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:46am
    - nathie
      
      Sorry but Ardern and Robertson “refute” that! 😉
      
      (Isn’t it great that that word no longer appears in the once-daily word soup waffle that MSM journalists lapped up uncritically)!
      
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      November 15, 2024 10:23am
      - Hugh Jarse
        
        That would be “refude ”, and yes agree with the rest of your msg
        
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        November 15, 2024 11:44am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Mrs Hipkins is Hipkins mother, the very same woman who wanted to take chemistry and biology out of science, she is just another nutbar leftie, close to flat earth society if she does not believe in chem or bio
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:17pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The Earth is flat. Just put a builder’s level on the ground.
      Is the bubble in the middle? The Earth is flat.//
      
      5 1
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      November 15, 2024 4:43pm
- PaulP
  
  Steve, you do realise that Babylon Bee is a satirical website eh? Their byline is “fake news you can trust”
  
  They are very clever though. The number of times their articles are picked up by main stream “repeaters” is very amusing.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Of course I know it is satire, but a few here don’t. My comment about applying to Labour as well sort of diverted the comments, but it is true that our kids are not learning. Education dept is dumb.
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:12pm
imalwaysright

It will be interesting to see how many public servants will be allowed paid leave to attend the hikoi when it drives in to Parliament.
18 2
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November 15, 2024 8:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Public servants don’t need to give a reason for applying for leave.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:48am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    They do if it’s not annual leave.
    
    But, they won’t waste their leave on this. No, they’ll be “working from home”, and no one will call them out on that point.
    
    11 3
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    November 15, 2024 9:53am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I can assure you that you can’t work at home and be out protesting. The myths about working from home here are astonishing.
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:14pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        [ Mod – debate the topics, don’t make it personal]
        I’m also astonished at your astonishment that people in the real world believe the reality that these lazy bastards who were lazy bastards in the office won’t be lazier bastards laying in their pit at home.
        (I’m not really astonished, as you know I’m a big fan)
        
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        November 15, 2024 12:29pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Silly me, I thought they were honest. Thankyou.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:04am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Censor wont allow a reply.
    Apparently questioning an assurance is now a personal attack!
    
    [Mod – if you cannot reply without the abuse then no. time you actually consider how you word your posts]
    
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    November 15, 2024 4:05pm
WaynelSexton

What is the point of Seymours Bill if it isn’t going to pass its second reading and thus become law?
Could it be to hide the fact that Maori are about to lose even more political power, by becoming even more of a minority?

Asian population about to overtake Maori population
https://centrist.co.nz/have-asian-new-zealanders-just-overtaken-maori-new-zealanders/

They push stories out that a Maori future is on it’s way, that a third of children will be Maori.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/third-of-children-to-identify-as-maori-in-2040-stats-nz/D6HZO22MDQUCRC4HSL45RZAO4A/

But how can the future be Maori when they are only having about 18,000 children a year, while we import anywhere from 70,000 to 120,000 immigrants a year?

These hikoi are to pump Maori up to make them believe they are gaining power, by overthrowing a bill that will never pass. While literally being recolonized again.
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November 15, 2024 8:06am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  “What is the point”? Try this. The next election will require National to have at least one coalition partner. The bill will have been rejected after its second reading. Act will likely have more votes and more seats (and National fewer of both). Seymour will have more influence. And that bill, in some form or another, might just rear it’s head again and get passed. Can you imagine Luxon and National not agreeing to it and having a Labour|Lunatic|Moron coalition take power?
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:46am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Rubbish, Act were sitting at 17% before the election, some of the things Hipkins said before the election collapsed Acts support like saying he could sit on the cross benches, or even once suggesting he could look at going with Labour, these comments scared the centre away from Act for ever
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:27pm
- Paulus
  
  Old Question !
  What is a Maori, as there are no actual ones only numerous derivations – or as Winston said a couple of years ago to be Maori you can be 1/512
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:31am
- Jack5
  
  I thought that one point of getting a bill to this initial stage was that then there is a committee hearing and people can make submissions.
  
  That would have been a helpful review of firearms control after the mosques massacres.
  
  Wasn’t that what Seymour wanted then, and failed after a vote was taken when he was out of the chamber talking to reporters?
  
  Help please from someone knowledgeable on Parliamentary procedure.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:44am
- PurplePen
  
  “What is the point of Seymours Bill if it isn’t going to pass its second reading and thus become law?”
  
  I think one of Seymour’s tactics is the Bill through the 6 month Select Committee process might change minds sufficient for it to pass. Suspect this would not be the case with NZ First. But, nonetheless, it at least enables us all to have a public discussion about the subject which we haven’t really had the opportunity in decades.
  
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  November 15, 2024 1:50pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And creating a side show as the taking out of law the treaty is sneaking through under the radar
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:24pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No, they have carried on with the process so the gutting of the word treaty is sneaking through bit by bit under the radar, you may well find this has been the plan from day one, because both policies give the exact same result
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:23pm
Yvette

Jackson
Since the Speaker warned “Sorry to interrupt you, but don’t go down that track” and “Mr Jackson, think about what you’re saying” with the response, “Oh, I have very much, Mr Speaker, but thank you for that”, Speaker “I know, but not very clearly, obviously”, but after his accusation David Seymour is a liar – after three demands he retract, Willie Jackson: “No, that’s a message from the hīkoi” – so that, unless Jackson himself is a liar, he was conduit of a message from outside Parliament, given to him the day before, so his “saying something that is so blatantly unparliamentary” was then obviously and by his own account: premeditated.

So, as a possible Conspiratorial Theory, was Jackson’s accusation and ejection – like the earlier Party Maori dramatics – also the result of a premeditated plan? – a premeditated agenda in action?

Jackson often mentions the “tyranny of the majority” – yesterday he was all tyranny and little majority
_____________
Hansard quotes – https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20241114_20241114_40

October 22, 2024 – Willie Jackson taking a practical approach to the raging debate over whether Māori ceded sovereignty in 1840 when signing the Treaty of Waitangi.
“I know in my heart, of course, that it’s not the case. There’s no way Māori ceded sovereignty; only a fool or a race provocateur like David Seymour would say otherwise,” Jackson, the leader of Labour’s Māori caucus told LawNews.“However, in reality – in a pragmatic, everyday sense – that has to be the case because otherwise, if you go down that track [Māori sovereignty], then what next? We’ll have Rhodesia and people will be moving out of Paritai Drive.
… “[David Seymour] He’s the one, along with his party, who’s telling lies about what the treaty means … I said right from the start that if the Treaty Principles Bill is passed, you’ll see race riots. I have no doubts about that.
https://lawnews.nz/treaty-maori/labour-maori-caucus-leader-willie-jackson-i-just-accept-the-crown-is-sovereign/
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November 15, 2024 8:07am
- zulumonster
  
  “There’s no way Māori ceded sovereignty; only a fool or a race provocateur like David Seymour would say otherwise”
  Were Sir Apirana Ngata and David Lange fools or race provocateurs?
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:52am
  - Swifty
    
    That was merely an assertion from Jackson.
    
    An assertion without evidence.
    
    Even he doesn’t believe it.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:40am
- imalwaysright
  
  It seems to be a bigger offense to call someone a liar in the house, than it is to lie to the house.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:08am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    When someone lies in the house they must correct info, then opposition parties have every right to complain to the speaker and call for the committee to look into the lies
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:31pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Whether it was premeditated or not, it is a schoolkid tactic:
  
  “It wasn’t me, sir… it was Johnny what said it first”.
  
  Too afraid to own his own shit!
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:10am
  - Swifty
    
    Mentioning the hikoi made him look weak.
    
    Like a weasel.
    
    Be a man and take responsibility. He knew damn well what he was doing.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:45am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Before he was sent out when he questioned a minster in question time with the same vitriol he resumed his seat, he then sat with a face like thunder, i think he knew exactly what TPM mongrels were going to do
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:33pm
- thirteenstars
  
  These people are activists and wreckers. Conflict is the currency they deal in, which is the core Marxist tactic.
  
  Being expelled from the chamber or being named and suspended makes these people martyrs, which is a political statement. The avoidance of violence when the ka-koi reaches parliament will not be a high priority.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:32am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    She is docked her time being expelled from her salary
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:34pm
- Jack5
  
  Willie Jackson hasn’t always been hot under the collar about the Treaty of Waitangi. Here’s his former wife, Moana Jackson:
  
  Back then, Willie had a short attention span. No idea about the Treaty either. I tried to break it down for him once, as we drove from Rotorua to Auckland.
  
  “Repeat back to me what I just said.” He’d give me a blank look, shrug, then laugh. Hopeless.
  
  But Willie has an interesting background – Auckland union activist and from a politically active family.
  
  https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/moana-maniapoto-the-willie-jackson-i-know/
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:00am
  - Swifty
    
    Hahahahhahaha!
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:41am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Jackson was lying, because he continued to tell the house this bill changes the treaty
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:29pm
G the giant from Dunedin

If I have said it once, I have said it a 1000 times.

Good luck labour getting back in with nutbar greenies and. Crazies corrupt racist TPM in cabinet. Yesterday shows exactly what problem Labour has, and probably the very reason why McKunulty is non committal on knifing Hipkins.

The hatred, the vitriol shown my TPM was utterly disgusting, I note high ranking Labour MPs took part, that right there should scare the shit out of Hipkins, because until he can distance himself from TPM and the greens Lsbour are done.
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November 15, 2024 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “.. because until he can distance himself from TPM and the greens Lsbour are done.”
  
  I disagree. The next government will be a Maori Party – Green – Labour government. As early as 2026. I stress that this is not my hope but my fear.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:44am
  - rockape
    
    Not so sure. The future may well be a National/ Labour Government with the minor parties being the opposition.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:48am
    - rockape
      
      The other option may well be an ACT led government.
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:56am
      - Ghost
        
        You will never have a right leaning government where national aren’t the main party.
        
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        November 15, 2024 12:01pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Don’t come at that crap Rocky, you know damn well that will never happen
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:36pm
      - rockape
        
        It may take a couple of election cycles but if Nationals partners don’t get their way and we are faced with a Labour green Maori Govt or a National Labour govt it could well happen. Personally I think Act may overtake National a couple of elections from now. The more angry the Greens and Maori get the more ACT will come to the fore. Reactions get an equal reaction and ACTs rise will be an unintended consequence or Green and Maori party belligerence increasing.
        
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        November 15, 2024 4:26pm
- wsk12345
  
  You’re wrong G.
  
  Look at the UK – several terms of so called conservatives doing very little to address the key issues of its constituency eg immigration.
  
  Fed up, the people on the conservative side don’t bother voting. And you get a labour govt that only 20% of the adult population voted for.
  
  Could easily happen here.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:50am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Maybe, but not until TPM are lanced like a boil, and yesterday may well see them lose much of their support, let’s not forget the labour party has three times in mmp elections lost all or nearly all of the Māori seats. once to NZF that everyone forgets about, and secondly to the Māori party in the 2000’s, and they lost 5 seats this time, in the first two instances they came back and won all Māori seats next time, if that happens this time, then the 3 seat over hang will be gone, and TPM will be out of the [picture, don’t be too sure about this, when Hipkins is lanced early next year after the barbeque season, then it will only take a stronger Labour leader to see we will not go into the election with TPM, end of, why intelligent people cant see what is happening is beyond me
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The left MPs are not just the crazy, hating ones. Their voters are the same.
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:31pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Thats why they are out of parliament, the centre would need to return to Labour, and after yesterday the centre are gutted
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:44pm
graham

There’s a story on the Herald, posted this morning, about the so-called “4B movement”, where women are apparently refusing to marry, have children, date, or have sex with men.

Young women across social media are sharing information about the movement as a reaction to many of their male counterparts voting for a candidate who was found liable for sexual abuse and whose appointment of three conservative Supreme Court justices led to the overturning of national abortion rights protections.

Leaving aside for the moment that support for Trump from women actually increased from when he won in 2016, it does seem to me that refusing to have children as a protest against what they see as the right to an abortion, is kind of a daft way to try and make this particular point …
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November 15, 2024 8:13am
- Don Beckett
  
  I would propose that most of those women could not attract a man anyway. They will be old spinsters by the time they are 40.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:06am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Several years ago my two youngest were lucky enough to do a high school course on “The Ancients” so brought home several of the famous Ancient Greek plays, including Astrophanes play, Lysistrata.
  
  Great stuff. Someone should send a copy to these idiots.
  
  BTW, according to this commentator the ?original South Korean movement is dead:
  
  What I find funny about this is the Korea’s cultural issues are such that this 4B thing couldn’t gain any traction there. It was like dumping a bucket in the ocean and saying there was more water there now. Some US feminist found an old video from 2021 when it was on its last gasp as a “movement” in Korea and reposted it while commenting on it like it was something new and exciting and managed to make it go viral here, so now it’s got the “foreign cachet” that makes it somehow more appealing…. despite the fact that it’s not a thing in Korea at all.
  
  More Copium bullshit in other words. The comment was from a blog post that linked to a NYT article that (amazingly) argued that a sex strike was a losing strategy for American woman. I don’t suppose that argument appeared in the Herald article?
  
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  November 15, 2024 4:16pm
- julesnzuk
  
  Who cares what people get up to (or not) in the bedroom? This is boring and shouldn’t even make the news.
  
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  November 16, 2024 3:57am
Right of way is Way of Right

If I, as a New Zealander of paler hue, walk on to any Marae in New Zealand, I am keenly aware that as manuhere, there is a certain kawa, or protocol, that I am expected to abide by in order to respect tikanga.

I must walk in a certain order, to a certain place. I must stand, respect and receive the wero. I must allow the orators to speak uninterrupted. I must remove my shoes on entering the Whare Nui. I will always have a waiata ready to tautoko our speakers.

I do this out of respect, and because this is the way things are done on a marae in order to ensure that all the speakers are heard, and that nothing can be done if only one group observes the rules.

It is therefore especially galling that the one party in our parliament who appear to believe that the protocols in the House apply to everyone else but them is the one who should be most familiar with tikanga, and should also be aware that choosing to ignore or disrespect that tikanga does nothing but reduce your mana.

The display by Te Pati Maori was an insult to our democracy, and an insult to Maori.

If you want to debate, debate. If you want to grandstand, go somewhere else.
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November 15, 2024 8:13am
- David Garrett
  
  Right of way: A very impressive piece of virtue signaling there; it would be even more impressive if you correctly spelled all the Maori words sprinkled through that piece.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:03am
  - Mike
    
    So why would that pedantic reply omit the macron in the word ‘Māori’?
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:23am
    - graham
      
      Did you understand what was written?
      
      If so, what’s the problem?
      
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      November 15, 2024 12:17pm
    - grumpy
      
      A macron is not part of “spelling “
      
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      November 15, 2024 3:33pm
    - julesnzuk
      
      If macrons are a critical, established part of the Maori language why have they only appeared in recent years?
      
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      November 16, 2024 3:59am
  - Right of way is Way of Right
    
    You may call it ‘virtue signalling’ but I call it respect.
    
    The fact of the matter is that Te Ao Maori, and the customs and protocol that are linked to that, exist in no other place in the world than our country.
    
    Conducting yourself in a manner that is respectful to others is a basic human virtue.
    
    One that, by extension, was conspicuous by it’s absence in how Te Pati Maori chose to conduct themselves yesterday.
    
    I am sorry you chose to ignore the message in favour of pedantry.
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:15pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Remove my shoes? i have been to Waitangi twice and do not remember being told to remove my shoes, because i would simply walk out if asked to
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:46pm
Anthony Melchett

Elon musk reckons the public service in USA is so bad, that you could sack them all with a 5 year severance payment and it would cost less less than them continuing to operate inefficient, unnecessary functions.

Going to be an interesting couple of years
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November 15, 2024 8:13am
- nz_aj
  
  But only a couple, as the DOGE is supposed to be finished it’s task of saving $2T by 4 July 2026, and then disband. For starters, affirm you want a job by turning up to work 5 days a week. Cut spending where authorisations have lapsed.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is it the same in NZ, with all of the deadwood who have been there for decades?
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:37pm
Cassandra

Like many followers of CR politics I got an email from Paul Goldsmith last night. He argues for a softly/softly approach to Maori. My response:

Dear Mr Goldsmith The problem with your approach is that it does not address the elephants n the room – partnership and sovereignty – while simply permitting the next CL government to incrementally move the dial, as has been happening ever since Doug Graham started his campaign. I remember that well – Doug and I were in 3B at AGS in 1955 – and I remember the fiscal envelope too, and how well did that turn out? Inch by inch we have this perpetual slide down the slippery slope of separation. At some stage NZ will have to have a debate and there’s only one way it can end. We can’t keep going downhill.
You heard Helmut Modlik argue for the Native American approach. Next it’ll be a Maori Upper House or a co-parliament.
I’d like to research Hansard to see what MPs said about the Principles in 1975. I suspect not much. As I understand the conversation at the time Palmer said to Bassett and Prebble that adding them would have no effect. Perhaps he should have a chat to Cooke.

National’s broad church approach has got us here and it’s only going to get worse. Time to stop it. In the nicest possible way, of course, but you’ve got to stop it.
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November 15, 2024 8:21am
- Damocles11
  
  Signing up to UNDRIP was ‘moving the dial’ was it Mr Goldsmith? Moving the dial alright, in favour of the racial separatists who are hellbent on our destruction. Appeasers. Weak, woke appeasers caused this. ‘Weak men create hard times’.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:26am
- pdm
  
  My reply to Goldsmith last evening:
  
  `You, Christopher Luxon and National as a party are making a big mistake.
  
  This is one of the big issues New Zealanders voted to have properly sorted out on 17 October 2023. You people are not listening and will not receive my Electorate Vote in Tukituki in 2026. Catherine Wedd had it last year.
  
  I see this week a Senior National Party Member and former National Party Office Holder is losing faith in the party because of the way this is being handled.
  
  I urge you to change your stance and support the bill to referendum.’
  
  I sent variations of the same email to Christopher Luxon, Todd McLay, Tim Costley and my local MP Catherine Wedd, last evening.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:27am
  - pdm
    
    Note: National have only had my Party Vote once (2014) since the advent of MMP.
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:35am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yes, so they should take your reply with a grain of salt
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:49pm
  - Yvette
    
    New Zealand abandons Labour and shifts to the right as country votes for wholesale change
    New Zealand voters have delivered a forceful rejection of the Labour government as a surge in support for the National party delivered what analysts described as a “bloodbath” for the government and a new right-leaning era for politics in the country.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/new-zealand-election-2023-results-national-party-labour-
    
    … and gets a Leader who follows in the footsteps of Jacinda Ardern, better “direct registering” than Chris Hipkins on the Treaty.
    How did New Zealand get it so wrong … again
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:41am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yet polling has them slightly ahead of where they were on election night
      
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      November 15, 2024 2:50pm
    - PurplePen
      
      Yes and no. The alternative, and the only alternative would have been to make Hipkins PM.
      
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      November 15, 2024 3:24pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    But you have refused to realise their policy of removing every utterance of the treaty from law gives the same result, this is going on under the radar as the activist show anger and hatred
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:48pm
- John Loveridge
  
  I wrote to Christopher Luxon the other day asserting that David Seymour’s bill is the bottom line concerning whether I’ll ever vote for National again. I got a very similar reply.
  
  Well, bollocks. This needs to be sorted decisively, once and for all, otherwise we’ll never be able to progress as a nation.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:51am
- David George
  
  This is very funny and probably, and unfortunately, not too far from the truth.
  “Every Time The TREATY PRINCIPLES BILL Comes Up At The Coalition Meetings.”
  https://x.com/i/status/1856587019583140175
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:56am
  - muzled
    
    gold 😆
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:23pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Winston would suit an eye patch
    
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    November 16, 2024 8:11am
- Phronesis
  
  My response was to unsubscribe from the emails.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:12am
- Mike
  
  Sounds like you have some research on your agenda. Do report back, please.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:26am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Cabinet picks ‘Unqualified?’

https://babylonbee.com/news/trumps-cabinet-picks-are-unqualified-says-party-of-pete-buttigieg-rachel-levine-kjp-sam-brinton?
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November 15, 2024 8:21am
imalwaysright

Headline on tv1 breakfast : “worlds largest coral found in Pacific”

Dumb fuckers
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November 15, 2024 8:22am
kowtow

Claire Trevett calls it an “eventful day” , but notes the whole thing was premeditated and planned .Including those in the public gallery who NZME notes included reps from Ngati Toa .

As such the insult to the House and the voters of NZ and the principles of representative democracy is closer to what Barry Soper calls it ; a disgrace . And he says in 40 years covering the house , this was unprecedented and he’s never seen such hatred.

We can’t start to begin to understand how we’re on such dangerous ground now , coming from these fringe extremist radicals , but along with the extremist Maori Labour MP’s .

Labour voted not to censure Clark , that’s an insult to the Speaker and the House .

btw I also think we’ve hit “peak haka” and it symbolises , what it always has done , hatred and violence , and should be consigned to the rubbish heap it belongs on .
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November 15, 2024 8:23am
- artemisia
  
  IMO the Maori Party is facing down a governing party Last Stand. There is no way the current coalition partners are going to bring it into that governing fold, and Labour / Greens will be having a big think about the same.
  
  Even if they win all 7 Maori electoral seats they are quite likely to be outside the tent. (We are not the US but some similar issues and sentiments.)
  
  Plus the gravy train is leaving the station and not heading their way.
  
  Gotta get the headlines where they can, but are those headlines working for them?
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:30am
- Paulus
  
  Am I allowed to say that Clark – the new young tats Waikato one should be ashamed of her youthful stupidity in hindsight – bet she is not !
  Better still a Silly Little Girl,
  But that is the way we are seeing the so called product of our education system, and she is by no means alone in her so called aspirations, to make herself known to the media, particularly so they can laud her.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:40am
  - imalwaysright
    
    You can’t make it personal. Apparently
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:12pm
  - Groggy
    
    Far better for a young woman to be seen and not heard the way the old farts on this blog like it eh?
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:35pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Tats? i didnt see too many tats on Clark, are you sure you are not talking about the young greenie mp with tats on every area of her body you can see including part way up her neck
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:54pm
  - Individual Responsibility
    
    Paulus – I describe Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke as “an attention seeking, poorly educated, brat.
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Peak Haka” has now become a joke.
  A ‘haka’ can happen spontaneously for almost anything.
  
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  November 15, 2024 4:52pm
Damocles11

‘A $20 access fee for some of our most iconic destinations?
The Government is floating the idea of charging visitors – including New Zealanders – as part of two discussion documents, which Conservation Minister Tama Potaka calls the biggest potential changes in conservation in more than three decades.’

Get stuffed. Get stuffed. Charging New Zealanders to visit iconic places in our own country? This is what they mean by ‘growing the economy’ and ‘getting back in track’: ordinary New Zealanders are to get their heads down, shut up, and work hard to pay the ‘Koha’ to our Maori overlords. A backlash is coming.
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November 15, 2024 8:24am
- imalwaysright
  
  Dam,
  Damn right. How dare these bastards even think about charging the people who own the country for accessing the country.
  If they want money they can use the cash they extorted from Meridian and Genesis for agreeing not to fuck their RMA for water rights .
  
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  November 15, 2024 1:18pm
Surely Knott

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness….”

Universals truths that also apply to NZ. All men are created equal. We need to review the principles of government which are continually undermining that.

Because “it’s not democracy as would be understood in a purely academic sense” Kieran mcanulty. In fact it’s not democracy at all
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November 15, 2024 8:25am
- Paulus
  
  Nah, nah, in New Zealand not all men are equal – some are more equal than the very large majority of others.
  I believe this so called march is a wakeup call for many people who just see it as a Pantomine – but who is the Widow Twankey in it ?
  Must be a person with the name Jackson I think.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:44am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Get your point Paulus,
    All men are created equal.
    In this country all men are equal. Unfortunately they are all well down the list of equality with other citizens.
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

NZCPR. Muriel Newman.
Guest commentator, US journalist David Samuels.
Nov 6th was a dat of reckoning for the US.

https://www.nzcpr.com/a-day-of-reckoning/#more-40146
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November 15, 2024 8:26am
Hugh Jarse

It seems the TVNZ Senior manager for news content, Nivak Rodgers has taken leave to attend the carkoi. Likelihood of getting unbiased news reporting from TV One – not high
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November 15, 2024 8:32am
- SoloView
  
  @ Hugh
  Nevak Rogers is not the TVNZ Senior for news content.
  
  From NZONSCREEN –
  Nevak Rogers has headed the content commissioning team at both Māori Television and TVNZ. Rogers began in journalism, then moved into directing and producing Māori and Pacific Island stories. She has presented popular reality shows like Marae DIY and produced doco Ngā Tamatoa – 40 Years On.
  
  From TVNZ site –
  Nevak Rogers is the Chief Content Officer.
  Phil O’Sullivan is the Executive Editor – News and Current Affairs.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:06am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Ok thanks, my mistake.
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:57pm
- sirknz
  
  Why would TVNZ start now with being unbiased?
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:05pm
Chuck Bird

The stunt yesterday is a good reason why the racist Maori seats should be abolished.
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November 15, 2024 8:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Gerry Brownlee needs to HTFU.
  This is Parliament, not a rugby league clubroom.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:54am
  - Paul Marsden
    
    Too late. He does not have the respect of the House and never will. The omni-shambles called Parliament will continue, until he is replaced with someone who sets rules and standards from the start, and enforces them.
    
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    November 15, 2024 9:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Bring back Trevor Mallard. Even though he is a leftie prick, he did control the House. Sometimes too much control!
      
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      November 15, 2024 5:30pm
      - kowtow
        
        No , a lot of the lowering of standards started under him .
        
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        November 15, 2024 6:45pm
nathie

So noticed when TPM “violently” insulted the protocols of the House yesterday, the Labour Party MP’s stood up in support of them!

Yep noticed the likes of Ginny Andersen and Ingrid Leary joining the far-left radical “thugs” in amongst the Labour rabble (simply because their colorful clothes stood out).

Can’t wait for Chippie and Andersen to be asked by the MSM about this and how a future Lab/Green/TPM coalition will pan out, bothe for the sake of unity of their coalition and the unity of NZ?

Also wonder if Ginny will be a “no-show” again on Hosking’s show next Wednesday morning to avoid the only “MSM” prepared to ask that question? 😂
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November 15, 2024 8:37am
- PurplePen
  
  Would be interesting to know who in the labour party sat quietly through it all.
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:30pm
Yvette

GOON SHOW-type Thinks: If the nation is to be decolonised, why is a deeply flawed colonial treaty not a primary target?
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November 15, 2024 8:43am
- PurplePen
  
  Yes. Wouldn’t part of decolonisation be ripping up the treaty.
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can it really be true that some of our MPs are incapable of rising to the challenge of debate in the debating chamber and must resort to a war dance?

https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/11/14/david-seymour-on-the-maori-mps-haka/
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November 15, 2024 8:43am
- John Loveridge
  
  It’s like the thugs’ veto. Completely without respect for others, and incapable of rational debate, they resort to aggressive displays and standover tactics to try and shut the other side down. They’re despicable.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:55am
- AitchW
  
  Has any of them annunciated in any way how the bill is racist or will reduce Maori rights in any way?
  They don’t understand the bill, I’d wager that none of them has read it.
  The very definition of dog whistle politics.
  The disgraceful stunt trampled on the mana and kaupapa of the house and the blatant intimidation of Seymour was contemptible. The haka was clearly preplanned, and for the Maori party to stack the gallery with its stooges was cynical if not sinister.
  Sadly it will play well with a small number of activist thugs.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:56am
  - artemisia
    
    Parliamentarians are the county’s lawmakers.
    
    Well they used to have a bit of a clue about their job.
    
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    November 15, 2024 1:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I would wager most can not even know what the 3 Articles are – let alone the 3 Principles David Seymour has in the Bill presented.
    But hey, protests get you on TV! mews.
    
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    November 15, 2024 6:06pm
- cmm
  
  A war dance it is. And that should be taken at face value – a threat of insurrection.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:13am
  - MCōs
    
    In this particular case it was a challenge
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:35pm
    - Jack5
      
      A challenge. More like an indigenous break-out of St Vitus’ Dance.
      
      Club neck-chops and flickering tongues – beyond quaint in an age of drones and atomic bombs.
      
      6 1
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      November 15, 2024 1:51pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No it was not. the haka was Ka Mate, go and look at exactly what it means, it is a haka of war
      
      4 2
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      November 15, 2024 3:04pm
    - kowtow
      
      Not a challenge.
      
      An insult to the House and to every New Zealander who believes in the principles of democracy and basic good manners and decency.
      
      4 1
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      November 15, 2024 4:06pm
    - graham
      
      I see that Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, said “The significance is actually challenging the Crown …”
      
      Maybe Ms Ngarewa-Packer should take a few minutes to reflect on the oath she swore at her swearing-in (the real oath, not the made-up one she tried to make some bizarre point with initially).
      
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      November 15, 2024 6:26pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Worse than that, they made gun shooting gestures to Seymour, and they ranted similar in Māori, this will have to be mentioned the next sitting day, very interesting to see if Brownlie gives an ultimatum or not, the gun hand gestures were a criminal offence
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Where did they get those imaginary guns from?
      Didn’t Ardern buy back the bad guns?
      Surely the imaginary guns are bad guns?
      And don’t call me Shirely.
      
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      November 15, 2024 6:18pm
Bridgenag

dear washington DC
you have no idea what’s coming. bold predictions by gatodear washington DC
you have no idea what’s coming. bold predictions by gato.

“look on my plans ye mighty and wet your pants.”

“there is no human on earth today who can bring the circus like elon can bring the circus.”

Very exciting and so wish we had this happening here

https://open.substack.com/pub/boriquagato/p/dear-washington-dc?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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November 15, 2024 8:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wonder if they could visit NZ for a few months?
  
  6 4
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  November 15, 2024 9:27am
- Mike
  
  Perhaps he could find some stairs to push someone down.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Explain Mike. Push down the stairs? Is that a Mike code?
    
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    November 15, 2024 6:32pm
I remember when

Is there a degree of irony in Maori use of a hikoi when demonstrating against perceived wrongs?
Sadly, walking is something that many would benefit from.
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November 15, 2024 8:47am
Bridgenag

New Data Exposes the Corruption Behind the COVID Response
It’s time for COVID accountability so this can never happen again

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/new-data-exposes-the-corruption-behind?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Donald Trump has only been elected for 2 days and RFK Jr is already working on making America healthy again.

https://x.com/magaresource/status/1854539766492262817?s=48&t=KfK3FEL6udYDD-HY_CkQNA
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November 15, 2024 8:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I agree with his views on nutrition. Shame about the anti vaxx idiocy..
  
  But what is going to do? Has any government in the history of mankind changed the eating habits of a population? Short of engineering a famine I guess.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:39am
  - bennerg
    
    Benedict, anyone who does not see the undue influence of Big Pharma (also “Big Food”) on America and the world is deluded. Bill Gates entry into the industry is well documented, and it ain’t about being philanthropic. Protected by the ex employees of Big Pharma placed in Government positions, he has made more money than what he ever did with his “computer” business. As an IT person I’ve spend a good part of my career fighting the damage his company did to technical innovation and fair play. So as he moved on to the health sector, he has tried the same ploys – and now his, and the likes of Fauci, time is up.
    
    All power to RFK to bring the power of justice down on these individuals, and the cabal that surrounds them. By ousting Trump in dubious circumstances in 2020 the left has not realised they firstly identified themselves as the target for elimination, but also allowed the forces of good to identify who they were, so they could coalesce together to swing the pendulum back to a place of sanity and normality.
    
    Finally, regarding pharmaceuticals, there is no doubt that there have been many good products developed within that industry, but when greed and excess are allowed to become profligate, then external checks are required, and this is NOW happening. Wu HOO!! (pun intended).
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:25am
    - Bridgenag
      
      100 ticks
      
      4 2
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      November 15, 2024 12:33pm
  - Local Miller
    
    I believe RFK Jr wants to legislate what can be added to foods rather than what people eat.
    
    4 3
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    November 15, 2024 11:41am
  - Jake Dee
    
    “Has any government in the history of mankind changed the eating habits of a population?”
    Of course they have, don’t be foolish. Agriculture and the food supply has been at the center of Government since the beginning.
    Some specific examples,
    Antoine-Augustin Parmentier 1737-1813 did massively important work with potatoes and bread with support from Napoleon Bonaparte who gave prizes for useful food inventions.
    Louis Pasteur is a literal household name for his work on food technology, he also worked for government commissions.
    And that is just two Frenchmen I came up with off the top of my head.
    Canned food was a government invention, mechanically separated meat was another government invention, both have massively changed eating habits, and on a whole, for the better.
    I don’t know why people insist that it is free enterprise that is the fountain of creation when it is government, not the merchant class that has been at the center of the human community since the beginning. And government can survive without free enterprise but not vice versa.
    
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    November 15, 2024 6:56pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Also; I am waiting to hear from RFK jr what it actually is that RFK jr believes about vaccines. So far all I have heard is what the MSM has said RFK jr believes about vaccines and that is far from good enough.
    The MSM has an appalling record when it comes to accurately reporting the specific positions of their ideological opponents and when it comes to reporting on the scientific and medical positions of their opponents it is even more appalling than usual.
    I recommend for your consideration, what was reported about Trump’s position on household bleach and Joe Rogan’s position on Ivermectin during the Covid hysteria.
    I each case be sure to compare the actual statements from their own mouths with what was reported and editorialized about those statements.
    
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    November 15, 2024 7:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  RFK jr’s Democrat relatives must be spitting tacks!
  Melting down?
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:49am
  - MCōs
    
    RFK jnr wouldn’t be where he is today if it wasn’t for his relatives
    He’s not even known by his own name
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:39pm
oldpark

I did hear that the National /NZ First Partys idea to support the first reading of David Seymour Bill was just a tit for tat idea emulating a similar situation performed by Helen Clark Labour Government in 2005 .Just Saying .
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November 15, 2024 8:48am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Utter rubbish, it was stated from day one, or we would not have got a coalition, everyone is well away of the stance of both parties
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:06pm
Clyde

No matter which side you are on and what you might believe in, yesterday’s charade in Parliament was an utter disgrace.

Willie Jackson is largely an uneducated simpleton racist who spits and slathers. But he is the first man up to put Labour’s case. That says it all. The Greens are no better. They can’t figure out whether their main support base are some people living in Gaza or maori gangs.

But the Maori Party are nothing other than vile racist thugs who have reverted to the sort of behaviour seen during the musket wars. They represent division, anarchy and the rule of the violent.

National have not had the courage to reverse the nonsense started by Palmer in the 70’s and this can only lead to one of two things. National supporters leaving in droves to support ACT and violence coming from the radical maori rabble, OR National continue to weaken their response to separatism thus enabling the radical maori rabble to take further steps to divide the country.
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November 15, 2024 8:55am
- cmm
  
  “No matter which side you are on and what you might believe in, yesterday’s charade in Parliament was an utter disgrace.”
  
  That was the point – to appeal to the racist people on the Maori roll.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:58am
- Countrygirl
  
  Sorry, that was meant to be an up tick.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:16am
- leoj
  
  Key had the mandate and the opportunity in 08 but blew it.
  
  Instead, he cozied up to the Maori Party.
  
  The Nats are pathetic.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:24am
  - rockape
    
    That was a very different Maori party.
    
    11 1
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    November 15, 2024 11:54am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They are wiping the mention of the treaty from law as we speak, no courage needed [Mod – deleted]
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:08pm
- Ghost
  
  He is what the government is doing at the moment Clyde
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/27/govt-moves-to-replace-or-repeal-treaty-principles-clauses-from-laws/
  
  Last month they released a list of legislation now under review
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:18pm
iMP

I watched the disruption of our parliament live, then again on bbc news, as this extremist racist minority Māori interest group that call themselves a “political party,” disrupted (yet again) Parliamentary debate on a bill.

There is plenty of time for debate yet these people choose to disrupt our protocols, disrespect our highest Marae and ignore the interests of the members of the house representing New Zealand. There are a greater number of Māori outside this group in the house and they were disrespected.

I’m tired of this group disrupting our process, Disrespecting our collective culture and acting like spoiled brats. I hope Gerry takes severe action as the speaker of the house to restore order. We can’t have this every time TePati Māori disagrees with something and throw their toys out of the cot.
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November 15, 2024 9:01am
- Keith White
  
  Gerry lacks the testicular fortitude and has lacked it right from when he started in the Speaker’s position.
  
  10 1
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  November 15, 2024 9:09am
  - Sacha
    
    I am disappointed in that I have to agree with you. He has turned out to be ineffective in controlling behaviour in the Chamber, and everyone who attends it is at risk of amused contempt.
    Perhaps MPs should have to wear a uniform when attending the Business of the House or be denied entry –
    
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    November 15, 2024 6:17pm
- AitchW
  
  I wonder if it will get to the point where every timethe Maori party perform like poorly trained seals that the rest the world simply rolls its eyes and treats the tantrum as a slightly irritating sideshow.
  “There goes the Maori party again, the grownups will carry on once they’re finished their little tanty”.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:14am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  I think Brownlee named the immature, unfit for the office Maori lass. As for the others, Brownlee said to Seymour that he would have to lay a privilege complaint regarding their intimidating behaviour. Outrageously, all of Labour voted against naming the immature, unfit for office Maori lass.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:17am
- imalwaysright
  
  Apparently the rabble mimicked pointing a pistol at Seymour and pulling the trigger.
  
  That’s a death threat but, in the great NZ tradition of shoulder shrugging, it will be quietly ignored.
  
  11 3
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  November 15, 2024 9:17am
- Mod88
  
  Gerry Brownlee is part of the problem not the solution. He lost control of the House the day he let the Maori Party turn up in “Fancy Dress”. To prove the point look at the 100% participation rate in the “Haka Event” from the Labour and Green Party members. They knew there would be no meaningful punishment for such behaviour. Brownlee has one chance to restore Order & Respect. At the next sitting impose Dress Standards and start kicking miscreants out for any infraction of the Rules. Alas he won’t so stock up on Popcorn, it’s going to be quite a ride.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:28am
  - Ghost
    
    Be sure to make a submission next time the Standing Orders committee reviews it
    
    4 6
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    November 15, 2024 10:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      [Mod – deleted]
      
      There is no need to amend standing orders, they already prohibit this behaviour, especially the racist death threat to the ACT party which should be a police matter.
      
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      November 15, 2024 11:06am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Ghost,
      Stale and unoriginal
      
      2 2
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      November 15, 2024 12:35pm
      - Ghost
        
        If you don’t want to make a submission then don’t whinge. That’s the problem with some people on here like you, you spend all day having a bitch, but you won’t get off your lazy butts and do something about it
        
        5 9
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        November 15, 2024 12:37pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Ghost
        I called your post about making a submission trite and I got censored.
        Yet you can engage in a tirade of invective towards me and be published.
        
        I have no problem with you being published, that’s a good thing. But why am I censored for writing a word, and subsequently allowed to write the definition of the word?
        
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        November 15, 2024 12:53pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  disrespect our highest Marae
  
  But Parliament is NOT a marae.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Parliament
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:43am
- Swifty
  
  Parliament can’t be a marae, because women can’t speak on marae, only men.
  
  Think of all the Maori women who speak in our Parliament – they can’t do that on their own marae.
  
  And they say that our Parliament is not a good place for Maori women……
  
  FFS.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:53am
- MCōs
  
  “disrupted Parliamentary debate on a bill”
  I didn’t watch watch, but my understanding is the the haka took place at the conclusion of the debate.
  Btw
  What do you mean parliament is our “highest marae”?
  It’s nothing like a a marae. It’s as British as you’ll get.
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:07pm
  - kowtow
    
    ‘It’s as British as you’ll get.’
    
    Lots of Froggy though. Inky pinky parlay vous .
    
    2 1
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    November 15, 2024 1:40pm
John Loveridge

I really do wonder just who is spreading the fear and disinformation:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-4b-movement-grows-in-popularity-why-us-women-are-swearing-off-men-the-front-page/UAD6AU64ORGKBEUS3FXSYX7Z4I/
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November 15, 2024 9:10am
- rouppe
  
  At least it helps the blokes identify the bat shit crazy ones.
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:05pm
Quail

There are too many NZ politicians in parliament.
Half of them have not been elected, just selected or appointed by the bureaucracy that is the NZ political parties.
MMP has disenfranchised voters power to the degree that politicians just do as they wish.(An example is Minister Sage who received less than 18% of her electorate vote yet gained a ministerial portfolio.)
All politicians must face the ballot if democracy ( and NZ ) is to survive,
Mr Luxon, Hipkins, and friends would have to listen to the people or be retired by the ballot
The.present MMP choice ,one person one vote or one person two votes clearly devalues the vote.
NZ must have a binding referendum on any constitutional change, and particularly the Seymour bill.
MMP won’t deliver either the much needed certainty or real change!
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November 15, 2024 9:14am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  MMP is like socialism.
  Vote it in, but shoot your way out.
  
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  November 15, 2024 6:38pm
The Feed

This has gone far enough.

After that display in the house, the line has been crossed. There now must be a debate for all New Zealanders , so National need to change their stance and support this bill through to referendum.
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November 15, 2024 9:30am
- kowtow
  
  Interesting contrasts .
  
  Just now on The Country , David Carter former Speaker expressed his outrage at the behaviour , rightly.
  
  And yet Finlayson seems to have sympathy .
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533817/treaty-principles-bill-will-greatly-damage-national-s-relationship-with-maori-former-minister
  
  Carter says parliament is the highest court in the land and this behaviour cannot /should not be tolerated .And of course he’s right.
  
  I wonder how the msm would take to people not following protocols in marae etc
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:40pm
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    Finlayson was on ZB claiming that if it had been his choice between power and the deal over the bill or not, he would have chosen the not.
    I do not believe him. And if he believes supporting the Bill initially is worse than Labour/Greens/Maori Party then he was clearly unfit for office. And unfit to be listened to as a supposed expert.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:56pm
cmm

I will paraphrase what I said yesterday:
* Anyone on the Maori roll is a race activist who thinks they deserve more than the general NZer.
* TPM understand this. Willy Jackson also understands this. If you want to appeal to Maori roll voters then you need hype up the radicalism.

Unfortunately as Maori get fed the special message more and more (through general wokeness and the modern school system), we can expect more and more Maori to radicalise.

We can also see this in the effective voluntary segregation of the country. Maori in largely white areas and more prosperous areas are less militant, while those in less prosperous and with a higher Maori population are more militant.

If we cannot get rid of the ToW – or at least the Maori roll – then we’re on a path to destruction.
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November 15, 2024 9:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The Media is keeping very coy about the close relationship between TPM and the Hikoi.
  
  https://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2024/11/14/maori-party-recruitment-march/
  
  Gisborne/Eastcoast is over 50% Maori, but it is not a hotbed of TPM activism.
  
  TPM seems on a mission to increase its base from the Auckland Urban-Tainui- Whakatoa coalition ….(trying to bring in Ngati Kahungungu and Ngati Toa).
  
  Time will tell how successful the militant TPM approach will be.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:53am
  - nathie
    
    A good read … demonstrating the MSM is being very selective in what they report (or more like, are deliberately leaving out).
    
    More media (mis)trust in action?
    
    Also wouldn’t it also be “funny” if the likes of the Waipareira Trust or TPM supporters have a side hustle going on printing protest tee-shirts in bulk?! 😉
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:34am
  - Swifty
    
    Thank goodness that’s been picked up.
    
    I raised that issue here on the 11th, having not seen it mentioned once anywhere else, but I saw no subsequent mention of it anywhere.
    
    I see Seymour has tweeted about it, on the 12th, it’ll get legs now.
    
    Maybe he, or one of his staff, reads KB?
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:36am
  - cmm
    
    Around two thirds of Maori in the East Coast region are registered on the Maori Roll. That is either the highest in the country, or close.
    
    Certainly it is in the major cities where the Maori roll registration is least and therefore there is the largest opportunity for the Maori Roll (and thus TPM) to grow.
    
    For example, in North Shore and Selwyn only one third of Maori are on the Maori Roll. In Epsom it is only 30%.
    
    If they can get people in the cities radicalised, then more Maori roll votes and more TPM votes too.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:40am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s been discussed on HDPA I believe and certainly on the Platform , both when interviewing Seymour .
    Beyond that I’ve not seen it in print .
    
    The organiser is a parliamentary staff member and relative of a Maori Party MP ( according to those reports) . That in itself appears to be questionable and I get the feeling Seymour will follow that up ( cos sure as hell te meedia paahti won’t , as it doesn’t involve people from the ‘right’)
    
    as a matter of interest there was a photo of Waititi in yesterday’s Herald and he had a red check shirt emblazoned on one side with the crossed pistols .
    
    And no doubt as per Peeni Henare being given a free pass for his violent rhetoric , there’ll be no condemnation from the media luvvies about this overt display of violent symbolism.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:50am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That person is also just 2 spots away from being in parliament off the list
      
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      November 15, 2024 3:13pm
    - Ghost
      
      Organiser is https://profiles.auckland.ac.nz/eru-kapa-kingi
      
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      November 15, 2024 3:22pm
Benedict Yu

A question for Parliamentary historians.

In all of history, has any New Zealand Government introduced a Government Bill, with the expressed intention of defeating the Bill?
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November 15, 2024 9:35am
- Yvette
  
  Christopher Luxon: “You do not go negate, with a single stroke of a pen, 184 years of debate and discussion, with a bill that I think is very simplistic.”
  If Luxon actually believes that, why – with his Christian beliefs, which should come into play sometimes – did he allow himself to agree with his own Coalition Agreement?
  
  With much of the Treaty “debate” (another dysfunctional Ardernment) is two words – partnership and sovereignty – Luxon’s participation seems limited to “We will kill Seymour’s bill” – an incredibly narrow-minded simplistic response – especially when “The Truth will [supposedly] set you free”
  
  Seymour: “The task is all the harder when you have an assumption that people have a different role in society based on ancestry.”
  If Luxon wants complexity, let him implement Seymour’s simplicity.
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:43am
  - Taieri
    
    184 years of debate and discussion
    ————
    
    184 years of the ever expanding coverage which the original signatories couldn’t even have started to imagine in their wildest dreams…
    
    Are the resolutions of the Congress of Vienna still relevant? Is the Covenant of the League of Nations still in force? Is there a tribunal considering the results of the Yalta Conference? Or its Potsdam equivalent?
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:30am
    - Groggy
      
      Interesting if completely irrelevant strawman there. The Magna Carta is still in force, and the American constitution, both better proxies than wartime agreements between Participants that no longer exist. The Congress of Vienna became moot when the various Empires involved – Austro Hungarian, Russian, Prussian all disappeared. The League of Nations was wiped by WWII although arguably resurrected as the equally useless United Nations. Yalta/Potsdam also moot now that there is no more Soviet Union. Why not bring up the agreements between Canute the Great and Harold Hardrada while you are clutching at straws.
      
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      November 15, 2024 1:48pm
      - Taieri
        
        Just to make the strawman a little bit less straw…
        
        Yalta and Potsdam are not “moot”. Yalta and Potsdam resulted in shifting borders and transferring hundreds of thousands of square kilometers between a number of countries. Millions of people have lost their homelands. And their lives…
        
        The three clauses of Magna Carta still remaining on statue in England and Wales are about as relevant to the lives of modern inhabitants of these countries as the Treaty of Waitangi is to 21st century New Zealanders.
        
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        November 15, 2024 3:45pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        You bring up an interesting point about laws and treaties but you do it in a very poor way.
        Maybe three clauses of the old Magna Carta are still in effect in the form of later legislation because they are good framings of important points, the rest have fallen into irrelevance because the need for them has vanished.
        A few days ago I mentioned that border between France and Spain is still basically at the line established by the treaty of the Pyrenees in the 16th century.
        The reason for this is not because of some deep respect for 400 year old treaties but because the border works fine the way it is and there is no need to change it.
        This is the important point about old laws and treaties, we do have a natural reluctance to break rules and agreements, BUT they are there to do a job of work, if they don’t they are gone. Old laws are full of a lot of old mumbo-jumbo and woo-woo but they are there to make things WORK.
        
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        November 15, 2024 7:24pm
- kowtow
  
  It certainly appears to be a very cynical ploy and indeed I’d opine it’s contrary to the principles of democracy .
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:43am
Swifty

Any accountability to be shown by the politicians and officials who let this deranged individual into the country?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hamilton-man-chit-ko-ko-jailed-for-killing-neighbour-guy-thompson/WP7M4NKBZNFIJHNWO7PDDF6CD4/

“He said Ko had struggled to integrate after arriving in New Zealand which had exacerbated his mental health challenges.”

And/or who failed to give him the necessary support once here?

Green and Labour MPs want to burnish their virtue by increasing refugee numbers but don’t care a jot when New Zealanders die or are otherwise harmed as a result.

Let’s see them front up to the Thompson family on bended knee and offering their profuse apologies and commitments to reduce refugee numbers.

“ If we can prevent one death then it’ll all be worth it…” isn’t that the Left’s refrain?

BTW – did we know he had HIV before we allowed him entry?
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November 15, 2024 9:49am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Gilbert agreed but said Ko was frightened and pointed to his background, which saw him raised in Burma before spending time in a Thai refugee camp and then coming to New Zealand.’
  
  This can’t be right .
  I’ve read articles where the govt here has stated we get the pick of the very best ……..
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:39am
cmm

Oh dear, the humiliation of the NZ Navy continues…

A “major factor” in the survival of the crew of the Manawanui was an islander in kayak!

So not the awesome leadership then?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360487721/kayaker-major-factor-safe-rescue-all-crew-stricken-manawanui-navy-ship
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November 15, 2024 9:53am
- imalwaysright
  
  Don’t forget that the lady who drove the ship that no longer floats did a fantastic job of asking someone to press the “Get off the boat, we’re fucked” button.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:14am
  - Individual Responsibility
    
    imalwaysright – brilliant summary.
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:36pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘An independent King’s Counsel legal review into the report will now take place, with the defence force set to release some of the information about what happened to the ship later this month.’
  
  What does a KC bring that say a senior experienced naval officer from the RN or USN might have brought .
  
  I would have thought that with the very long experience that HM’s navies have in these matters that the old tried and tested methods wold have /should have stood the test of time .
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:25am
  - Taieri
    
    the defence force set to release some of the information
    ————–
    
    Set to release SOME of the information? Why not FULL information?
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:12am
  - imalwaysright
    
    That’s correct Kow,
    
    Not sure what a KfC knows about boats and the sinking thereof by lady luvvin’ ladies.
    
    The navy are the qualified personnel on deck.
    
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    November 15, 2024 11:22am
  - cmm
    
    Well the Dutch Boy in the folklore knew what to do.
    
    Put your finger in the dyke.
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:08pm
Benedict Yu

The Auckland mayor should do something.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360484968/grieving-husband-devastated-after-council-rejects-request-fulfil-wifes-last-wish

One guy wants to plant one native tree in a park to remember his wife because that spot was special to her.

No against the rules. 😩
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November 15, 2024 10:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  How easy would it be for ACC to have an area they are regenerating with natives (e.g. Mt Albert) to include a remembrance grove planting area where folks could either partake in planting a native tree (as directed) in remembrance of a loved one , or donate a native tree to the plantings?
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:21am
  - John Loveridge
    
    I think so too Maggy. A happy medium could be achieved with a minimum of fuss.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:31am
    - muzled
      
      Rotorua did this over 20 years ago (up behind the poly tech at the southern end of town), land was donated by Carter Holt Harvey if my memory is correct.
      
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      November 15, 2024 1:47pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Stop all that common sense stuff! //
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:58am
- imalwaysright
  
  Stuff missed a sitter.
  Headline should have been
  “Right wing Mayor deals blow to Climate Change”
  
  Never mind a single tree, the poor bloke would have ended up with a memorial copse to his dear wife.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:22am
- cmm
  
  Clearly we can’t just have trees put anywhere because it was some dead person’s favourite spot.
  
  I think Maggy’s suggestion is the best: have an area where this can be done.
  
  It might not be a loved one’s favourite spot, but they can surely live with that.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:11pm
Yvette

Willie’s FACEBOOK
November 13
Magnificent day. 10,000 plus at the Hīkoi . Back at parliament, ready to take it to David Seymour tomorrow in the House as he introduces his bill that nobody wants, not even his boss Christopher Luxon. Stay tuned.

November 14
Today I was ejected from the house for my response to the first reading of the Treaty Principles Bill. I just want to clarify something.
I will not apologise for what is the truth. David Seymour has continually misrepresented the Treaty. End of story, Kia Ora and Good night. – tuned out

Before the Election Willie Jackson indicated he was standing again to be in Parliament to the challenge ACT’s Treaty policies.
But you surely can’t do that when you have ejected yourself from Parliament.
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November 15, 2024 10:11am
Swifty

Waititi’s latest foam-flecked bile in the House:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr1Oom5tavQ

His speech has become demented – he likens ACT MPs, some of whom are Maori, as ‘The KKK with swipe cards.”

(Read the comments from Maori New Zealanders.)

He also likens ACT MPs to “those in the cheap seats.”

I see the latest Curia polling has the Maori Party at 2.3% support nationwide – approximately one third of ACT’s support.

Just who is in the cheap seats?

Just who is unable to get much over one in fifty New Zealander voters to support them? Which party gleefully took hundreds of thousands of dollars of unlawful charity money to fuel their political aspirations and lied about it before agreeing to pay it back? Which Maori Party President and his wife take a good million dollars a year in salaries from Maori charities and live in a $4.5 million Auckland mansion?
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November 15, 2024 10:16am
- Quail
  
  Simple ,these people should not be in parliament.
  They are not supported by any voting majority
  They are the result of MMP in action , creating division and privilege!
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:18pm
  - cmm
    
    “They are not supported by any voting majority”
    
    They are not there to represent the majority.
    They are there with the support of their voter base.
    Maori roll voters vote for extreme radicals. That’s what they get.
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:13pm
In Vino Veritas

In September, Elon Musk’s SpaceX was fined $3750 USD for using it’s launch pad deluge system and having “industrial waste water” go into a wetland. The water is potable. This is just one of many fines that are racking up on SpaceX. Musk spoke to a couple of them when he said that he applied for consent to build his rocket, and the consent was still not in place by the time he finished it🤣 . Is it any wonder he want’s to have a go at improving Government efficiency!!
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November 15, 2024 10:22am
- cmm
  
  I’m fairly sure that if you discharged potable water into a NZ river you’d get pinged too.
  
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  November 15, 2024 8:14pm
Conservatarian

Some official stats from the 2023 general election from https://archive.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2023/statistics/index.html

These demonstrate why the Maori Party ‘s (TMP) existence depends solely on race-based seats and is one reason why they’re so viciously opposed to any hint of a race-blind democracy in this country.

TMP holds six seats in Parliament because they won six of seven maori seats by getting 95k electorate votes (52% of the electorate vote) in those seats. TMP received 107k of the total electorate vote (3.89%) and 88k of the total party vote (3.08%). Their six seats gives them one seat per 15k party votes (the average is 23k party votes per seat for other parties in Parliament.).

Total party votes cast were 2.88m (Maori roll 197k or 7% of total votes cast)
Total party vote turnout was 78.2% of the 3.69m voters enrolled (Maori turnout was 68% of 290k on Maori roll noting that 567,000 Māori were enrolled on both rolls in total per https://elections.nz/media-and-news/2023/official-results-for-the-2023-general-election/)
Total informal or disallowed party votes were 33k or 1.1% of votes cast (Maori roll 5.7k or 2.9% of votes cast).
In total the maori roll accounted for 6.7% of all valid party votes and 17% of total informal or disallowed party votes
Of the 191k valid party votes cast on the Maori roll, 58k (30%) were for the Maori Party (TMP), 85k (44%) were for Labour and 49k (25%) for all other parties.
TMP received 88k party votes (3.08% of the party vote) with 58k (Two-thirds) of its party votes for TMP coming from the Maori roll. TMP received 30k votes from the general roll (1.1% of the party votes cast on the general roll.
TMP candidates received 107k electorate votes (3.89% of all electorate votes) of which 95K (89%) came from the Maori roll. TMP received 12k electorate votes from the general roll (0.5% of the votes cast from the general roll.
Voters in the maori electorates cast 182k valid votes (6.6% of total electorate votes) of which 95k (52%) went to the TMP candidate, 66k (37%) went to the Labour candidate and 20k (11%) to candidates from all other parties.

Labour received one-ninth of its total party votes from the Maori roll and 44% of the party vote from the Maori roll.
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November 15, 2024 10:26am
- rouppe
  
  noting that 567,000 Māori were enrolled on both rolls
  
  Isn’t it illegal to be on both rolls?
  
  What is Election NZ doing not removing from a roll when they register on the other?
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:48am
- Ghost
  
  No, the figure is not Māori on both roles it is on either
  
  567,000 Māori were enrolled on the Māori or general roll – an increase of more than 31,500 on 2020.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:59am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Yes, thanks for the pointing that out Ghost. 567k Maori on either of the two rolls, with slightly over half (290k) now on the Maori roll. After a generation of targeted campaigns from our government to fill up the Maori roll.
    
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    November 15, 2024 12:33pm
leoj

Why are WE not allowed to have a say via a referendum.

What are YOU so scared of?

Losing? (Losing all the rorts).
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November 15, 2024 10:26am
- Swifty
  
  That’s one of the major features of our debates on a number of issues in NZ today – the Treaty, decolonisation, the introduction of tikanga into our legal system etc – the number of people essentially saying that this is a given, ‘we’ will decide, and that the people should have no say in these matters of critical importance to them.
  
  Quite anti-democratic wouldn’t you think?
  
  Almost dictatorial.
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:22am
Yvette

And just for good measure –
Human Rights and Te Tiriti o Waitangi
Although there are areas of disagreement between the English and Māori texts of the Treaty, there are important areas where the texts do agree. Article 1 is essentially about the Crown, Article 2 is about rangatira, and Article 3 is about all citizens and residents (including Māori, Pākehā and other subsequent migrants). These Articles give each party both rights and responsibilities and invest them with the authority to act. These rights and responsibilities include:

• the rights and responsibilities of the Crown to govern (Article 1 – kāwanatanga/governance)
• the collective rights and responsibilities of Māori, as Indigenous people, to live as Māori and to protect and develop their taonga (Article 2 – rangatiratanga/ self-determination)
• the rights and responsibilities of equality and common citizenship for all New Zealanders (Article 3 – rite tahi/ equality)

– their layout:
https://tikatangata.org.nz/human-rights-in-aotearoa/human-rights-and-te-tiriti-o-waitangi#.

Look familiar, Christopher Luxon? – in all its simplicity?
If you wants complexity, try implementing Seymour’s and “Human Rights and Te Tiriti o Waitangi” simplicity.
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November 15, 2024 10:33am
bennerg

I’m so liking some of the folks Trump is picking for his team. Gaetz for example when questioned by a reporter that something he said would cause offence … his instant reply … “then be offended”.

When you see side by side Trumps “border czar” compared to Biden’s (Harris), you get to realise why the USA has just got itself into such a mess of late.

Now the Democrats will be dragging out every bit of dirt they can on each of the nominees, and that sadly is their way, and their future. But if you reverse the view, you cannot help but see each of them as sad, deluded individuals, about to be served their comeuppance.
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November 15, 2024 11:04am
- Groggy
  
  To be fair the dirt on Gaetz doesn’t need digging for it’s right out in the open.
  
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  November 15, 2024 1:54pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    That was a democratic hit job
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:17pm
Paul Marsden

Even Helmut Modlick is now backing and calling for a full, public debate on all things Treaty.
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November 15, 2024 11:10am
- muzled
  
  That’s great.
  
  What is so frightening about debating it?
  
  Modlik had some really interesting things to say in the debate with Seymour.
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:05pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    Nothing. Talking is the pathway to resolving any issue.
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:04pm
- Colville
  
  He(lmut) is smart enough to know that Māori are better to be part of the discussion rather than take the childish, “performative narcissistic” route as per TPM. !
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:47pm
Paul Marsden

I am very surprised that a bunch of KC’s would come out publicly and express their support on such a contentious issues as the Treaty Principles Bill, arguably putting themselves in harms way of any nutcase that might disagree with them. What on earth were they thinking?

They have also elevated themselves above any middle ground and reasonable thinking New Zealander, who’s views might differ from theirs. Their position in this matter reminds me of Hillary Clinton’s pejorative phrase from the 2016 US elections describing “half” of the supporters of her opponents, as a ‘basket of deplorables” . Crikey, even one of these KC’s describes the matter as ‘evil’.

It might not have occurred to this erudite bunch of KC’s, that most New Zealanders (I believe), support the demand for a public debate on all things Treaty and that like Luxon, they are all going to be on the wrong side of history.
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November 15, 2024 12:13pm
- Colville
  
  They are not taking a side for the sake of popularity.
  
  The proposed principle 2 “retrospectively limits Māori rights to those that existed at 1840”, they said, and the bill states that “if those rights ‘differ from the rights of everyone’, then they are only recognised to the extent agreed in historical Treaty settlements with the Crown”.
  
  The lawyers said that erased the Crown’s Article 2 guarantee to Māori of tino rangatiratanga.
  
  “By recognising Māori rights only when incorporated into Treaty settlements with the Crown, this proposed principle also attempts to exclude the courts, which play a crucial role in developing the common law and protecting indigenous and minority rights.”
  
  They also explained the proposed principle three did not “recognise the fundamental Article 2 guarantee to Māori of the right to be Māori and to have their tikanga Māori (customs, values and customary law) recognised and protected in our law”.
  
  They said it was not for the government of the day to “retrospectively and unilaterally reinterpret constitutional treaties”.
  
  “This would offend the basic principles which underpin New Zealand’s representative democracy.”
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:54pm
Swifty

Seymour reporting that yesterday in the house the Maori MPs were pointing their fingers like guns at him, and making shooting noises.

All captured on parliament’s filmed coverage he says.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vI1ibH1fVI0

Bloody wankers.

I can’t find myself getting too upset about the odd haka in the house, I have to say, but anything even hinting at violence or which may encourage others to violence must be instantly jumped on strongly in my view.

These people just go too far.

My biggest worry is that one day we’ll have to stop people viewing Parliament in the gallery because of safety concerns.

A rare and wonderful tradition lost.

And it’ll be the pricks in the Maori Party that will be responsible for it.
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November 15, 2024 12:15pm
- kowtow
  
  As I said earlier .
  
  Peak haka .
  
  Politicised .Even at the rugby , bollocks.So’s the double anthem , it’s woke virtue signalling . I’m over it .
  Bin it .
  
  To use their language , it’s offensive .
  
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  November 15, 2024 1:08pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Debbie Ngawera-Packer wears the 3 white feathers of Parihaka symbolising peace, yet delivers threats of violence!
  
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  November 15, 2024 1:11pm
DeepBlue

Is it tikanga to launch into a full scale haka inside a meeting house? I think not. Parliament is the highest meeting house in the land.
Haka is for outside: speech is for inside.
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November 15, 2024 12:17pm
- Swifty
  
  Tikanga is not set in stone – it will be what ever the Maori Party need it to be, in any given set of circumstances and at any point in time.
  
  It’s their shield of sanctimony.
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:27pm
hookerphil

Could not see the bike rack report today but would like to give my north to south trip through Dunedin one way system complete with bike yellow cycleway which does appear to have removed car parking in many places. As at approximately 1.45 pm yesterday there were 0 bikes, no scooters but there was one young walking by herself female, complete with a mask. During my fairly infrequent drive throughs I think the maximum I have seen is about 3, cyclists that is, there have been a substantial higher amount of masks.
And as a Dunedin PS, it looks like one part of the hospital is well on its way. The other part hasn’t really started. Thought it was all going to be finished well within Labour’s second term.
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November 15, 2024 12:36pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That one way system is state highway 1 in both one way streets, the bike lane was put on state highway 1 by Labour and Ardern via the [deleted] greens, at least 2 people have been killed by turning trucks on the stretch from the railway station to the hospital.
  
  the building you see is the outpatients building separate from the hospital promised by Labour 6 years ago and promised by Ardern to be finished next year, there has not been any above groundwork down by Labour on the old Cadbury site
  
  [Mod – calm your posts down]
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:23pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Dear Moderator,
    
    I am unable to see anything in G’s post above that needs to be “calmed”.
    
    I am guessing that you mean G is making too many posts or is it that G used an unacceptable word to describe the Greens?
    
    I am trying to learn so I do not make the same mistake.
    
    [Mod – your posts are fine so don’t worry. G just gets a bit over passionate at times with his wording]
    
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    November 15, 2024 6:32pm
- Taieri
  
  The cycleways along SH1 (Cumberland St etc) are a poorly patronised waste of time and money and should have never been put where they are.
  The Otago Harbour Cycleway is well used though. Plenty of walkers and riders there everyday.
  
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  November 15, 2024 3:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Debbie Ngarewa-Packer denies that she or any TPM person made gun shooting finger threats at David Seymour
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018964268/te-pati-maori-co-leader-debbie-ngarewa-packer-on-treaty-principles-bill
(at 2min 40sec)

Check out the hand signals around 30sec in this video clip of yesterday’s haka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4F49zMhZn0

Definitely not the usual hand movements made during this haka.
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November 15, 2024 12:38pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Packer can deny all she wants the video evidence before our eyes does not lie.
  IMO this is an absolute and outright encouragement for and to violence.
  
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  November 15, 2024 12:57pm
  - Conservatarian
    
    That is a clear and obvious shaping of Packer’s hand into a handgun. Directly at Seymour and at Nicole McKee on Seymour’s right and probably also at the minister to Seymour’s left.
    
    Packer is essentially saying to McKee “you might be the Minister of Guns, but I’m allowed to point my gun right at you.”
    
    This is playground bully sort of stuff, except with a multi-billion dollar gravy train at stake.
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:48pm
- kowtow
  
  Thanks for posting.
  
  This is something that every NZer should view.
  
  Such disrespect for the House .
  Packer was also mouthing off at the Act MP’s by the look of it, on her way out and it didn’t look polite.
  
  btw every single oppostion MP was on their feet , and quite a few shouting and gesticulating . Surely they too are in contempt .
  
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  November 15, 2024 1:05pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Looked remarkably like gun shooting finger gestures to me!
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:29pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    And Seymour also confirms what she yelled out when gesticulating.
    
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    November 15, 2024 2:44pm
- Jack5
  
  Looked like the Maori Party MP Debbie Ngarewa-Packer simulated a hand-gun sweep across, and nearly in the faces of, David Seymour and Nicole McKee.
  
  Even her left hand on hip – a typical pistol-shooting stance.
  
  28 to 30sec into the video clip:
  
  https://youtu.be/R4F49zMhZn0?si=5QgzvKSeDpuS3V0Z
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:38pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    Perhaps the PPS should take a look at it and determine if any charges should be laid under the new provisions of the Hate Speech Laws?
    
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    November 15, 2024 3:18pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Seymour also alerted to words spouted that meant the very same thing
  
  7 1
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  November 15, 2024 3:24pm
Paul Marsden

That should read of course ‘express their opposition’
7 1
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November 15, 2024 12:38pm
lifesgood

Ha ha, the teachers took yesterday afternoon off for a “paid union meeting” and then all today for a teacher only day, in essence gifting themselves a three and a half day weekend. And the weather is foul, jolly good show, serves them right.
12 2
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November 15, 2024 12:58pm
Ghost

This is sad that we are at a point where lawyers need name suppression for their own safety. But sadly because of the case I believe they likely need it.

Name suppression has been given to the lawyers representing the mosque terrorist in a highly unusual court decision.

The shooter filed a notice of appeal against his conviction and sentence in November 2022 and his counsel were appointed the following year.

Article
7 3
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November 15, 2024 2:13pm
- sirknz
  
  Interesting that they don’t explicitly identify which group or groups that they are likely to face violence from.
  
  It must be both of the far right white supremacists in the country…
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:46pm
Conservatarian

The popular vote for President Donald J. Trump in the 2024 US presidential election has now exceeded 76m. Trump of course recently won his third consecutive US presidential election, and his 76+ million votes make him the most popular US president of all time.

Per NBC News, California has counted 90% of its votes, and has an estimated 1.53m votes to count.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/california-president-results

Trump could win another 500k of those 1.53m as he currently has 38.2% of votes cast in California and trails Harris (58.7%) by 20.5 percentage points. Looking back on my notes from tallying some stats as at 8am last Friday 8 Nov, Harris led by 17.2 points (with 60% of votes counted IIRC). The mail-in votes are breaking strongly for Harris.

In 2020, Biden received 81.3m pieces of paper which purported to have a signature of a “voter”. Remember Biden “won” 65% of all mail-in “votes” and won the mail in “vote” by at least 22m but the popular “vote” by 7m.

Remember, the percentage of mail-in “votes” skyrocketed to 46% in 2020 from 24% in 2016.
They called it “fortifying the election”
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-absentee-voting-looked-like-in-all-50-states/
Please be aware that 538 was purchased by ABC news in 2023. ABC is owned by Disney and so is unlikely to be objective or reliable about politics from that date.

In 2024, about 42m (48% of 88m) votes counted so far have been cast by mail.
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November 15, 2024 2:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So the Dems could not cheat enough to get 90 million votes for Kamala?
  Sad, sad, sad.
  Swing States – BOOOOOMM
  
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  November 15, 2024 6:49pm
Surely Knott

Herald Headline : “Dressing Fragile Masculinity In A Trump Era”

I don’t want this negative messaging about Masculinity being given to my young men. No wonder men’s suicide rates are so high. I want them to know that Masculinity is amazing and the world values it.

The Herald and the left are so toxic. They are dividing society. And it’s everyday, a constant barrage of negative attacks on people’s identity.
10 4
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November 15, 2024 3:28pm
- kowtow
  
  And on the country’s identity and integrity as a nation.
  
  7 2
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  November 15, 2024 3:59pm
- Inandout
  
  SK, NZME is hurting financially and are closing many rural papers. Expect to see layoffs from the Herald before long as readers flood to the blogs.
  
  5 2
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  November 15, 2024 4:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“The View” is canceled.
Final episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVY3ut9q6wI
2 3
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November 15, 2024 4:18pm
Ra Henare

Interesting how woke crap is sneaking in to so many aspects of life.

I belong(dont know why) to Kea New Zealand.
An organisation who (I thought) was setup to connect Kiwis working/Living overseas in an effort to make connections to grease the wheels of progress by hooking kiwis up to solve problems.

Today I get a Survey request starting.

This is the final opportunity to take part in this year’s Kea Community Survey and share your insights to help us shape the ways in which we can best support our offshore community.

Bullshit. Its all about climate change
The wording of the questions suggests it will be used for some Climate Change action Bullshit.

What do you think?

https://survey.keanewzealand.com/zs/4nClVN
6 3
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November 15, 2024 5:17pm
Bridgenag

Gotta love Lefties losing It

https://youtu.be/2rF7G1tZPX0?si=jJeHt5w-dd9FRVcQ
7 2
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November 15, 2024 5:24pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Wish we had reporters like this here…..so funny
  
  6 2
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  November 15, 2024 5:41pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Um, we don’t have reporters – NZ has repeaters…..
    
    4 2
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    November 15, 2024 6:52pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  times 10!
  
  2 3
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  November 15, 2024 6:51pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360482888/mapua-boat-ramp-faces-opposition-hearing

This sort of thing goes on all the time in NZ.

A few well-heeled people bring pressure to bear on locals and councils in order to get ratepayer funds for their pet projects.

“The Māpua Boat Ramp Community Trust declined to comment.”

A real reporter would have found out who the members of this “Trust” were and published their names.
4 2
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November 15, 2024 7:15pm
- Mike
  
  I found their names within 2 minutes. Furter googling will no doubt provide earlier news articles reporting on the trust’s plans.
  
  3 2
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  November 15, 2024 7:32pm
  - Jack5
    
    “I”?
    
    But Mike/Milky, you’re not real.
    
    We know you’re a Bot.😄
    
    2 0
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    November 15, 2024 10:14pm

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