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November 21, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 November 2024

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General Debate

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Yvette

Perhaps just read the bits in bold typeface –

And here we have accumulated over nine days an affirmative call to action that landed and was realised at Parliament yesterday.

■ Hikoi – “For what?”

Helmut Modlik, the head of Te Rūnanga o Toa Rangatira, said the energy created around the Māori rights movement should be harnessed. He said iwi leaders were actively working to set up their own institutions, such as “Te Whare o te Rangatiratanga”.

The idea to form Te Whare o te Rangatiratanga had come about through the hui-aa-motu.
Those hui were called by the late Kiingi Tūheitia Potatau Te Wherowhero VII, at the start of this year, in response to Māori concerns about the coalition Government’s policies;

Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke told the crowd outside Parliament, “If every single Māori person registered on the Māori roll, we would have 20 automatic Māori seats here in Parliament.”

… Winston Peters and Shane Jones have accused Te Pāti Māori of exploiting the Treaty Principles issue for their own political campaign. In Parliament on Thursday, Peters tried to downplay the significance of the hīkoi by saying it was not “grassroots” and pointing out that some of the organisers are relations of te Pāti Māori MPs and party staffers.

Ngarewa-Packer said iwi had “every right to rise”, “be angry”, and “deeply hurt”.
“This Government has betrayed te iwi Māori. It has unleashed a wrecking ball through te iwi Māori. The Prime Minister has traded the mana of Te Tiriti, he has exposed our mokopuna to harm, to harm for a bill that he doesn’t even intend to support.”

Hansard, Winston Peters: What most in the mainstream media are not reporting is that the organiser of the hīkoi is the son of sitting Māori Party MP Kapa-Kingi. He’s employed by the Māori Party and stood as a candidate for the Māori Party before. The company that fund-raised and coordinated the hīkoi was incorporated in September by the wife of Rawiri Waititi and the daughter of the Māori Party president, John Tamihere. This was a total commercial jack-up. Driving and flying to Parliament in their “car-koi” was nothing but a recruitment and fund-raising tool for the Māori Party, and the Labour Party ignorantly joined them at doing it.

I had wondered why the late Maori King seemed to studiously avoid David Seymour at Waitangi, so instead of any intelligent exchange between the two, there was a concentration on Unity.
‘For what’ may now becoming more obvious.

May be Unity of te Iwi Maori (the Maori Nation) and Te Whare o te Rangatiratanga to push on with He Paupau, could be also obvious modeled on North American Indian politics (recent iwi seminar) – and if te Pati Maori was a force as Winston claims, will it be a force in a Whare o te Rangatiratanga – with the guidance of Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, Helmut Modlik, and John Tamihere and Rawiri Waititi?
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November 21, 2024 8:01am
- Grunter
  
  A little ironic to say the least…… A march promoting separatism, better known as Apartheid, has a catch cry of “Unity”.
  
  These clowns now have 50 years of momentum and will be difficult to stop.
  
  We now all have the choice of fight, flight or freeze.
  
  Luxon has clearly chosen freeze.
  
  Personally, my “fight mode” is currently sending emails to the PM & various National MPs (probably pointless). And soon a Submission on the Treaty Bill (probably pointless).
  
  Seymour is the ONLY leader with any chance of fixing this mess.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:33am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Principal at college where better half works started the staff meeting yesterday with a big thankyou for “everyone’s” support of the hikoi.
    
    Quite sinister when you think about it.
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:24am
    - 7kiwi11
      
      I wonder how many staff were sitting there thinking “But I don’t support the hikoi’ but daren’t speak it for the fear of being ostracized and potentially hurting their career.
      
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      November 21, 2024 11:28am
      - imalwaysright
        
        7, exactly.
        That’s the sinister part.
        The fear of saying what you think and knowing that even those who agree with you will also vilify you.
        
        We used to see this crap in ww2 movies and say “why don’t they all group together and overthrow the guards” Now we know
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:34pm
- kglm
  
  Maori are part of the Crown (now a term for the Government of New Zealand) – Maori MPs and Maori Minsters are in the Government.
  Maori are “partners” of the Crown – according to Luxon and many others.
  Maori are subjects of the Crown – they are citizens of New Zealand.
  How can any grouping simultaneous be the Crown, partners of the Crown and subjects of the Crown?
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:46am
  - Scott
    
    KGLM – totally agree. The whole idea there was a partnership when the Treaty of Waitangi was signed is nonsense of the highest order. However in the age of “trans women are women” there seems to be no end to the nonsense the over educated liberal elites will push on the rest of us.
    
    In 1840 the British empire were the most enlightened people in the world and colonised NZ by consent and granted the local people the rights and protections of British subjects.
    
    However the idea that there was a partnership is ludicrous. Partnership implies equality. As I’ve often said, the idea that Queen Victoria would enter into a partnership with 100,000 illiterate tribes people on the other side of the world is simply ludicrous. 😎
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:45am
    - Paulus
      
      Wasn’t it more like 50,000 Maori at the time of the treaty, and some 40,000 non Maori ?
      
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      November 21, 2024 1:53pm
- kowtow
  
  Ngati Toa are reported to have been part of the gallery noise makers during the maori party haka outrage .
  
  Helmut Modlik , Ngati Toa , addressed the crowd after the march to parliament.
  
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  November 21, 2024 10:34am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Kamate belongs to Ngati Toa.
    
    For those not au fait with the background, it tells the story of Te Rauparaha cowering in the long drop dunny pit while someone’s arse blocks out the view of him by his enemies.
    
    Rather inglorious, and not really very edifying either.
    
    I suspect if Kamate was delivered by the All Blacks in English, the Opposition would roll around the paddock laughing.
    
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    November 21, 2024 6:38pm
- wsk12345
  
  That Hana girl is thick as two short planks. Why would 90% of Maori want anything to do with that bunch of losers. She seems to think they own all the Maori votes despite the other parties in parliament having more Maori MPs (if they were the measure) than the Bro Party.
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:01pm
- goNZ1
  
  Helmut Modlik sounds like a German immigrant, how did he transition to the Special People ??
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:36pm
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Father, Austrian, came to NZ in the 50s to build state houses. Married a Māori lass and fathered a child.
    
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    November 21, 2024 1:55pm
    - Cantabrian
      
      And I thinnk I have heard him say that Ngati Toa allow those who marry into the tribe to be regarded as blood members!
      
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      November 21, 2024 4:23pm
Scott

Winston Peters speech in parliament was a classic and much needed takedown of the Hikoi and the Maori party –

“Yesterday’s hikoi wasn’t grassroots – it was a Māori Party astroturf.

What most in the mainstream media are not reporting is that the organiser of the hikoi is the son of the current sitting Māori Party MP Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, is employed by the Māori Party, and stood as a candidate for the Māori Party.

The company that fundraised and coordinated the hikoi called “Toitu Te Tiriti” was incorporated in September by the wife of Rawiri Waititi and the daughter of the Māori Party president John Tamahere.

Driving and flying to parliament in their Car-koi was nothing but a recruitment and fundraising tool for the Māori Party – and the Labour Party ignorantly joined in.

The Māori Party just used and manipulated thousands of Māori yesterday for their own pointless political stunt. They staged a protest against a piece of legislation that they already knew is not going to pass into law.

The faux outrage is obvious for all who see it for what it was. Their aim was to gather anyone and everyone no matter what their cause – including patched gang members.

It’s the same reason they conducted a sham haka in the House last week. It was a disgraceful pre-planned and coordinated stunt that served only to intimidate and undermine the running of the House and grab as many headlines as they could.

They are a bunch of extremists and middle New Zealand has had enough.

New Zealand is a democracy whether the Māori Party like it or not. And using ‘Māori culture’ as an excuse for their disgraceful behaviour is an insult to Māoridom.

No ordinary kiwi, Māori or non-Māori, should accept the behaviour and intent of this Party of Extremists.

They don’t want democracy, they want anarchy.

They don’t want one country, one people, one law – they want separatism, division, and laws based on race. They state it specifically.

Since 1867 Māori have been elected to Parliament with just four winning a general seat until the introduction of MMP when we saw the exponential growth of the number of Māori MPs.

Right now, we have the record number of Māori in Cabinet of any government – more than all the Māori Party MPs combined.

All the Party of Extremists want to do is act with utter contempt and ignorance at the progress that has been accomplished.

They are trying to tear that all down for their own ignorant misguided political gain.

They are trying to tear down our country along with them.
We are not going to concede or yield to these separatists, these people who spew an anthem of hate against other people.

We will not be bullied by these cultural elitist extremists.
We stand for one people, one country, one flag, united as one – Māori and non-Māori.

It is the only way our country will ever succeed – and we will never give up fighting for that.”

He’s not wrong! 😎
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November 21, 2024 8:02am
Anthony Melchett

A snapshot into the world that the 20,000 odd protestors want

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/death-of-off-duty-northland-cop-gail-shepherd-left-huge-gap-in-lives-of-wh%C4%81nau/

Maoris to run their own separate society free from white man’s rule.

They literally try and blame this guys drunk and stoned driving in an un warrantable car on racism and system inequality. It’s beyond clown world
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November 21, 2024 8:02am
- wsk12345
  
  I’m I think it’s a stretch to say that’s what the protesters want. From listening to Sean Plunketts interviews there it seems that most of them were there to protest ACT taking away their existing rights.
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:03pm
  - sirknz
    
    Which rights might they be?
    
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    November 21, 2024 2:26pm
- DimChappie
  
  That article makes no mention of racism or system inequality. Can you provide a link to another article which does?
  
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  November 21, 2024 5:22pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

What a topsy turvy world we live in. On Tuesday Maoris and friends crowded Parliament against colonial outcomes. On Wednesday, Samoans and friends crowded Parliament in favour of colonial outcomes.

http://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/534339/685-s-to-the-world-restoring-citizenship-bill-passes-with-unanimous-support
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November 21, 2024 8:03am
- wsk12345
  
  Samoans are not Māoris. Even though they are often grouped together, for the most part they are less indigenous than whiteys. Thus do not expect the same “rights” as those that they no doubt share DNA with.
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:04pm
  - Paulus
    
    Pacific Island people are only grouped with Maori when it suits Maori.
    All their children speak their Island’s speech, wheras Maori are some 2%, and we are having to learn that because they say so.
    
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    November 21, 2024 1:56pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Any anti Trumpers with the courage of their convictions can put their money where their mouths are (and even for long pocketed / short armed Democrats, $1 is surely affordable) and head off for sunny Sardinia. Ollolai!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360494152/italian-village-offers-us1-homes-americans-upset-election-result
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November 21, 2024 8:03am
- Allan
  
  Fair call, but who will run Kiwiblog when Mr Farrar heads offshore?
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:57am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Gang of Lefties criticise government spend reduction policies but deny bias.

Who, us? Biased? It’s a side issue, nothing to see here.

Members include Ganesh Nana, Rob Campbell, Susan St John, Craig Renney, and economists from Auckland, Victoria and Massey universities.

Tui billboard time, eh?

http://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/534365/govt-s-fiscal-policy-dragging-out-recession-economists-say
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November 21, 2024 8:04am
- JimBobJoe
  
  without reading their demands/plan in the article I will guess they are demanding the Government spend more …
  
  Its an easy conclusion as no Left Wing economist ever argues for less state control of the economy and less government spending (debt funded of course) and much higher taxes
  
  To quote the Nobel Laureate Forrest Gump on Left wing economics: ‘Stupid is as Stupid does’
  
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  November 21, 2024 10:04am
  - Paulus
    
    To spend more money firstly you have to get more money.
    There are too many people in New Zealand who are net tax recipients – I believe some 60% receive money, rather than pay taxes.
    Our Social Wefare, great in the right place, as needed, must be held responsible and until changes are made, which will not happen, we will remain moribund and useless in the ability to pay for anything after repaying huge Debts.
    Remember people like Cullen, Ardern and Robertson all joined and destroyed the economy in tht name of socialism
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:45am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Cullen?
      
      The bloke who ran surpluses and refused to give tax cuts. Used the money to pay net debt down to buggerall, which provided useful borrowing headroom for the Key government when the GFC came along.
      
      Introduced Kiwisaver and the “Cullen fund” to smooth out pension costs in the future. Obviously both of these socialist things should be repealed ….
      
      Credit where it’s due ….. 🙂
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:04pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Cullen the bloke who left NZ in recession and with structural deficits by spending every dime and introducing business subsidies in the form of Working for Families….
        
        Cullen wasted a great economic position and left the country totally exposed to external shocks – he is no saint of finance
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:17pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        You for got the negative things he did, but the old socialist trick – give only half the story.
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:41pm
      - pdm
        
        Michael Cullen – the man who stupidly bought back NZ Rail and left the cupboard bare for the incoming Government.
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:48pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Don
        
        Up till then all we got was the old righty trick of being a bit selective …. 🙂
        
        So you think Kiwisaver should be cancelled and the Super Fund wound up ….. ?
        
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        November 21, 2024 1:58pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        JimBob
        
        introducing business subsidies in the form of Working for Families….
        
        This historical fingerpointing can be a lot of fun. Yes Cullen was part of how it came about and the Key government had 9 years in which to get rid of it. Didn’t happen. Go figure.
        
        There was also a long term subsidy to landlords from the Nats known as the “accommodation supplement” … 🙂
        
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        November 21, 2024 5:39pm
      - AitchW
        
        Pdm, not only did he strip the cupboard bare for the incoming National government he gloated about it. A truly loathsome little man.
        
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        November 21, 2024 8:50pm
  - Quail
    
    What is stupid is to regurgitate the export led mantra recovery for NZ.
    Commodities trading is still in decline.
    Meat and offal , farming manufacturing etc all regulated out of business and a quarterly balance of payments deficit balance of payments GDP deficit of 6.8%.growing by the month.
    Annual deficit $33,8 bn
    Commodities are in free fall.Wool in particular
    About the only increase was oil believe it or not!
    With the new uncertainty around the constitution driven by hikois and the balance sheet. ==NZ will not now be attractive either for foreign investment .or exporters.
    
    Buckle up for a rough ride!
    
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    November 21, 2024 1:17pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Readers check for yourselves as Quaail doesnt leave a link.
      
      https://www.worldbank.org/en/research/commodity-markets
      
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      November 21, 2024 1:56pm
imalwaysright

Cops say they have had over 500 meetings with gangs about banning patches.

That, in itself, gives these criminal gangs legitimacy as organisations.

I wonder what they said…
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November 21, 2024 8:06am
- cmm
  
  No doubt a huge quid pro quo was negotiated.
  
  Cops: We need to do something to look tough.
  Gangs: Sure, but we can’t have you stuffing up business that much.
  Cops: Ok how about setting things up so we can arrest someone at 3 minutes past 12.
  Gangs: Ok, we have this one loser who’ s a pain in the arse and we were going to shank anyway. We’ll set him up.
  Then what do we get out of the deal? Will you stay away from our meth ops for a couple of weeks?
  Cops: Deal.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:27am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Policing by consent.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:35am
    - cmm
      
      Aka policing by KFC.
      
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      November 21, 2024 2:20pm
cmm

How long before the MMob test the gang patch ban?

How long before the police capitulate?

As much as I dislike gangs, there really are more important issues to address.
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November 21, 2024 8:08am
- Blog-aholic
  
  I’ll give it about 24-48 hours.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Police have to get more and more on home D for meth dealing and murdering.
  NZ is a basket case.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:15am
  - pdm
    
    Steve that is the Judges – not the Police.
    
    Judges still seem to want to do anything but lock criminals up.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yes I know, but why aren’t the Police pushing the Judges? Why isn’t the Govt and the Police Minister on the Judges case?
      
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      November 21, 2024 8:47am
      - fernglas
        
        It’s called judicial independence. If Parliament wants judges to sentence more vigorously, it can legislate. That’s its job. It clearly doesn’t want them to. Have a word to your MP.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:07am
      - pdm
        
        Protocols?
        
        Paul Goldsmith has never struck me as a `get up and get things done’ type. Maybe someone needs to give him the equivalent of a bloody good kick in the posterior.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:07am
      - redeye
        
        Paul Goldsmith served as a speechwriter and press secretary for Phil Goff, who was a Labour Party minister at the time. Goldsmith worked in this capacity during the late 1990s before transitioning into public relations and eventually entering politics himself.
        That should tell you everything you need to know about this politician.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:12am
    - Hugh Jarse
      
      The public has expectations on what they want in the way of sentences for criminals, parliament takes submission on laws and probably provides a sensible limit on what the minimum or maximum sentence is. Police then in the main carry out the prosecutions in the public interest and for public protection. They place those charged into the vastly inaccurately named Justice system and the judges do whatever feels right.
      
      Once police charge an offender, the rest is out of their hands, police appeals against judicial decisions/sentences are frowned upon and I am not sure they can appeal decisions, only sentences that are seen as manifestly inadequate or insufficient and let’s face it virtually anything coming out of a district court is manifestly inadequate these days.
      
      Home visits to people on home D must place an impact on Police resources though as the numbers go up.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:31am
    - Ra Henare
      
      Judges tend to reflect the “”trend”” of Parliament.
      6 years of lefties would have signalled “”be kind””.
      
      Now, when the PM grows a pair, they will get the harden up feel of parliament.
      
      Well I can dream cant I.
      
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      November 21, 2024 1:59pm
  - Flossie
    
    A couple of cops of my acquaintance are equally frustrated that their efforts to apprehend and charge these criminals just result in that slap with a wet bus ticket “sentence “.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:26am
  - fernglas
    
    SteveOtto “home D for ……. murdering” Really? People convicted of murder get life. Sounds good though.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      When does manslaughter become murder? Both the same to me when someone is dead after a fight.
      
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      November 21, 2024 11:33am
      - sirknz
        
        When it is clearly premeditated. The person planned it ahead of time, stated that they were going to do it, then actually did it. The brought the device with them.
        
        Manslaughter is ‘accidental’ or not on purpose.
        
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        November 21, 2024 3:00pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Well just this week a guy got home D for premeditated manslaughter of an old man in Christchurch – who was looking after his kid after Dad ditched him as punishment.
      
      Last month a man got home D for repeatedly raping his Neighbours 12 year old daughter.
      
      So not hard to see home D for murder, if it hasn’t already happened.
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:10pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I’d say the govt can see this problem (the judiciary, that is) sticking out like a dog’s proverbials. I wonder if they have any levers to pull to restore sanity. If not then yes, truly a basket case.
    
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    November 21, 2024 2:05pm
- AitchW
  
  According to the new commisioner, cops in Gisborne picked up 2 gang members in a car just after midnight this morning and they’ve been charged under the new law.
  He sounds like a real breath of fresh air after Coster.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:19am
  - pdm
    
    Hastings AW.
    
    Southampton Street which is a main arterial street through the City.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:41am
    - AitchW
      
      Pdm I beg your pardon.
      
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      November 21, 2024 8:53pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A cuddle would have been nice.
    
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    November 21, 2024 11:34am
- Burtland
  
  midnight last night when the law came in
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/534382/mongrel-mob-member-charged-3-minutes-after-patch-ban-begins
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:19am
- smttc
  
  Did it already last night at 5 minutes past midnight in Hastings.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:20am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Mongrel Mob member charged 3 minutes after patch ban begins
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/534382/mongrel-mob-member-charged-3-minutes-after-patch-ban-begins
  
  Just hours before the Government’s gang patch ban came into force, dozens of Mongrel Mob members met at a community hall in Ōpōtiki to discuss how to respond.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360494246/inside-opotiki-mongrel-mob-eve-patch-ban
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:20am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Mongrel Mob members met at a community hall in Ōpōtiki’
    
    Good thing that it was an organised crime gang using the hall , had it been free speech or women’s rights advocates they’d have been excluded.
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:42am
- Chuck Bird
  
  The first arrest was 3 minutes after midnight.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:21am
  - pdm
    
    Seems a bit over the top – even for a gang member.
    
    Mind you as the old saying goes – `not much good happens after midnight’.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:24am
  - cmm
    
    A quick, token, show of force.
    My standard bet of 50 cents and a servo pie say they have all but given up my the new year.
    
    It is going to be like driving while using a cellphone. On the books, but not really enforced.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:25am
    - Colville
      
      The cellphone enforcement will come soon enough. Cameras on the streets and instant fines. $1050 in Oz , as my daughter found out! Camera in an overpass on the highway driving to Sydney.
      
      Same for no seatbelt.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:08am
      - cmm
        
        We have had the law for at least 10 years now. In the beginning they enforced it. Now hardly ever.
        
        I hope you told your daughter she’s a silly (inaudible) and deserves the fine twice over.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:31am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I drive a lot. It’s mostly the usual young
        & dumb and SUV drivers texting while driving. Probably also ute drivers as they tend to generally drive like absolute lawless f-wits for some reason. Saw one entitled a-hole driving (a luxury child-killer tank) at 110km (110km zone) with her phone held by both hands resting on top of the steering wheel while texting.
        
        Never a cop to be seen anywhere in 99.99% of those cases. Plenty of speed cameras though to f you over for just missing an orange light by .5 of a second or going 3km over the limit!
        
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        November 21, 2024 2:13pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    This is going to show us who:
    
    A) actually believes in freedom of expression for everyone; or
    B) just wants it for people they agree with.
    
    Click the green button below for A and the red one for B.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:56am
    - cmm
      
      I see Judith Collins expressed the point of view that a gang patch ban goes against the BORA and freedom of expression etc.
      
      She has a bit of a point there.
      
      She then proposed that the patches only be outlawed when they are intimidating (eg. at the beach or playgrounds). That would seem extremely difficult to enforce because it is so subjective.
      
      I think the focus should be off the patches. Rather just target the gangs entirely. They are criminal organizations. I suspect we already have laws about being a member of, or associating with, organised crime syndicates.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:03am
      - fernglas
        
        We do, and have had for years. But the Police have been hamstrung in using them for two reasons. First, the Courts have been restrictive in interpreting them, which has made them hard to use. And second, the Police have been reluctant to use them against the ethnic gangs for fear of being accused of racism.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:11am
      - PurplePen
        
        The Gangs Act 2024 does more than outlaw gang patches. But everyone’s focus, MSM, us, opposition govt and other groups’ focus is solely on the patches.
        
        Herald reports Goldsmith saying “the free ride for gangs was now over”. Good. They’ve been molly coddled for too long and across all sectors of criminal behaviour there’s been little to no consequences which is the main issue. Sure, some of it is the courts, but also it is the Police such as painting protest flags and helping protesters carry flags. That sort of mindset shouldn’t be anywhere near any police.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:15am
      - PurplePen
        
        And I’ll add, Herald also reports opposition MPs are concerned about the reaction from gang members. Really!?! I have no sympathy whatsoever for gang members reaction. If they can’t control their emotions like anyone else in civil society and they get violent, well .. they will be dealt with as they should.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:18am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “I suspect we already have laws about being a member of, or associating with, organised crime syndicates.”
        
        Of course we do but it’s been activist woke cops and courts that have failed to enforce and convict. The huge roundup of Comancheros recently proves that all the police need do is actual police work.
        
        The patch ban is an admission of failure and a typical bureaucratic response to a problem created by the bureaucracy in the first place. Collins is correct, and I suspect the courts will find that, too, and so they should.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:33am
      - cmm
        
        The problem is not the icing. The problem is the cake.
        Patches really don’t matter. It is the gang crime.
        
        The cops’ bluff will be called the first time they have one of those huge state funerals. Cops won’t stop the wearing of patches or other intimidation.
        
        Then it will be back to business as usual.
        
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        November 21, 2024 9:57am
      - Taieri
        
        In the course of my life, apart from NZ, I’d been living for prolonged periods in 3 other countries. And visited many many more. Don’t recall ever seeing a gang patch in any of them. I don’t know whether gang patches were legal or illegal there, but they were just not there, at least not in the public places. Why is it such a problem in NZ then?
        
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        November 21, 2024 10:49am
      - MCōs
        
        “Why is it such a problem in NZ then?”
        Would that be the gangs or the patch’s?
        I think you’ll find most countries have gangs and they can be extremely brutal. If you’re not a local you’re likely not too aware of them. They just don’t necessarily advertise their presence, unless it’s by way of a police uniform
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:20pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      Nigel,
      Good point.
      What we now have is a list of organisations whose members aren’t allowed to wear apparel that relates to their organisation.
      We all know what happens when a public servant is given access to a list.
      It gets longer.
      
      How about, instead of targeting the clothing , perhaps target the criminals wearing them.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:46am
- Ghost
  
  Today, the gangs have a protest, wearing their patches outside parliament
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:09am
  - Inandout
    
    Ghost, The Maori recruitment drive on Tuesday started the ball rolling on disruption, but with Police holding their hands. I expect similar Police softness today. I think even Hosking has realised this Coalition talks a lot but very little gets achieved.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:23am
peterwn

So TPM is upset at the Speaker’s response to the Hikoi. Firstly there was no question that Mr Speaker was going to ban the protesters from Parliament grounds. However he was obliged to ensure that the House could carry on its internal business as usual and in particular that it was not going to be invaded. TPM people complained about not being able to go in and out of the House. It is unbelievable that the Speaker would imprison MP’s in the House nor lock them out. More likely the Speaker closed off entrances that TPM people would have liked to use and restricted visitors to only those that could be accompanied by MP’s or their staffers (who would need to take responsibility for their actions). As far as WiFi was concerned, the Speaker would have had no intention to provide WiFi to those outside and in the light of recent circumstances was not going to risk TPM members providing WiFi credentials to outsiders.
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November 21, 2024 8:12am
- pdm
  
  wifi – was that available at Waitangi and around New Zealand in 1840?
  
  I have not heard of that before.
  
  Now if they had complained that Big Gerry would not let them use the dunnies within Parliament Buildings they might have very, very small grounds for a complaint.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:17am
  - Blog-aholic
    
    The pre 1840 maori did not have starlink per se but the did have Matarikilink……
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:32am
    - imalwaysright
      
      IWi Fi
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:48am
    - AgainstTheFlow
      
      Pre-1840 Maori used the mauri (or lifeforce that flows through everything) as comms by tuning it in an early form of radio transmission.
      
      Then the white man arrived and destroyed all the equipment and threw it in the rivers to remove evidence of advanced Maori tech.
      
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      November 21, 2024 10:03am
      - Blog-aholic
        
        Sadly I have heard some people state that with quite some conviction……
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:34pm
  - peterwn
    
    They were probably able to use the toilets in the Cathedral across the road.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:45am
    - Graeme Hall
      
      Toilets for Maori? Bourgeois colonialism.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:37am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I read somewhere that portaloos were brought in for the occasion.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:08am
    - Flossie
      
      Courtesy of the tax payers?
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:14pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        You have to ask?
        
        To be fair, the hikoi was an expression of democracy, whatever your view of it. It’s reasonable for toilets to be provided (consider the alternative); & if the hikoi promoters were to be sent the bill, then TPM would simply flick it on to Parliamentary Services anyway.
        
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        November 21, 2024 6:46pm
- cmm
  
  There really needs to be better control on the Wifi in the bee hive and handing over credentials should be a crime.
  
  I would hope that the parliament networks are secure and have a DMZ/guest network for untrusted devices.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:23am
  - Local Miller
    
    Control of WiFi is easy. At least one company I’ve worked for never provided the WiFi password to staff. Your WiFi connection was configured through a utility that set the password with no visibility of the details. Except for the System Admins, no one knew the WiFi password.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:37am
    - cmm
      
      Some also filter by MAC address which tightens things up further.
      Let’s hope parliament has secure wifi access systems and policies.
      Of course policies only mean something if they are properly enforced.
      
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      November 21, 2024 8:42am
  - peterwn
    
    It was probably the guest network that was shut down and TPM people probably habitually use devices not controlled by Parliamentary Services.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:40am
    - pdm
      
      I saw somewhere Debbie Ngarewa-Packer saying that The Maori Party staff in Parliament could not do their daily work.
      
      Seems to be stretching it a bit because surely they were all part of the mob outside to help get the numbers up.
      
      Besides if there were any in offices inside would they not be hooked up to the main Parliamentary network?
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:14am
- kowtow
  
  Amazing really te amount of promotion te meedia paahti is giving to all things Maori Party around this political party demonstration.
  
  Funny too how it’s only at the end of this party orchestrated event that the msm are prepared to begin to allude to the Maori Party’s central role in this.
  
  Meanwhile where is the msm commentary on the real political story here , how the Speaker is now dealing with their outrageous behaviour in the House.
  
  The coverage by the media has been very much at the level of emotional appeal , as such it is literally propaganda.
  
  There’s plenty of material they could cover re the finances and the actual organisers .
  
  But they won’t.( Unlike the crusade they launched against for example Uffindel) Compare and contrast.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:28am
  - PurplePen
    
    I’ve not seen anywhere in MSM anything that explains what the protestors issue is with the Treaty Principles Bill, nothing. Nothing yesterday, nothing in editorials, nothing today. Herald today has a yuge article all about how the estimate for how many attended the protest. So what. No one has interviewed TPM co-leaders and published their rationale for their protest.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:33am
  - pdm
    
    As far as the Speaker is concerned Maori Party MP’s have until 1pm today to plead their case.
    
    The big question then is:
    Will Big Gerry deal with them at 2pm and let us know who, if anyone, has breached privilege and/or who, if anyone, is being named (and shamed).
    
    Or will we have to wait a week or two or even three until Parliament sits again.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:49am
- graham
  
  I’ve been avoiding all the media reporting about the hikoi, so not really up with the play. But of all the issues and concerns, they’re worried about no free WiFi? Seriously??
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:49am
  - pdm
    
    Entitleitis Graham.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:50am
- igm
  
  MSM are really over the top. No mention of an upheaval in Porirua on Wednesday morning, police everywhere, and sirens going for ages in eastern suburbs. Seems the carkoi refuse must have done something wrong, but as we know, they are the love of MSM, with them possibly indirectly supporting the likes of “Stuff” with financial support through TPM.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:02am
  - Paulus
    
    McD’s in Porirua had to get more supplies and staff as the marchers arrived I expect.
    I believe this was the first McD’s in New Zealand !
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:51am
    - MCōs
      
      I remember when it opened
      Forced some of the hamburger joints and pie carts to clean up their act. No smoking while they were flipping patties and shaving more.
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:26pm
      - pdm
        
        Chris Faa’foi was at the opening too – so he said.
        
        Was that in his maiden speech because I think it had – I’ve bin everywhere man connotations.
        
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        November 21, 2024 12:55pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Me too. Run by an Ex Policeman if I remember correctly. But that was early 70s when I was working at MOD in the then town Centre, so 50 year old memory can not be relied on.
        
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        November 21, 2024 7:01pm
    - goNZ1
      
      KFC Porirua had to impose a limit 50 pkts of large fries per customer on Monday night
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:53pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      1st NZ McDs opened in the late 70s if I recall correctly.
      
      KFC came a few years before and was a real treat back then for normie kids.
      
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      November 21, 2024 3:01pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Early 70s. Certainly before 1976.
        
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        November 21, 2024 7:02pm
Yvette

Follow the dots –

• Waitangi in February, ignore David Seymour or any discussion with him.
concentrate of Iwi Unity – Kotahitanga

• te Parti Maori (President John Tamihere) organises Hikoi – Kotahitanga

• International star Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke told the crowd outside Parliament, “If every single Māori person registered on the Māori roll, we would have 20 automatic Māori seats here in Parliament.”

• Helmut Modlik, the head of Te Rūnanga o Toa Rangatira
proposes “Te Whare o te Rangatiratanga”

• prospect of resurrection of He Paupau and other matters (like, Waikato water)
Te Parti Maori vehicle which Labour may need next Election

There are not that many dots really
( chocolate fish for kiwiblog reader who connects the Tukoroirangi Morgan dot )
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November 21, 2024 8:16am
- pdm
  
  Yvette – does the Tuku thing involve underpants?
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:52am
  - Yvette
    
    Not directly I think, Pdm, but certainly messing in Foundations
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:16am
Flossie

Being of mixed heritage I am so annoyed at the racial division in NZ. If the voices of Maoridom, such as the Maori Party leaders amongst others, were not so spiteful and venomous I might be able to consider their position instead of almost dismiss it. I have both natural and step children and grandchildren – some with Maori blood and some without a drop – and everyone gets on famously. I just hope they are not going to grow up in a world which has become more “them v us”.
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November 21, 2024 8:21am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Flossie they are because Ardern created the environment to enable these self styled ‘leaders’ to demarcate New Zealanders into the us and thems.
  
  Ardern did this with the vaccine and created a society where race, wealth, health, culture, politics and identity are at war.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:36am
- Paulus
  
  Hope you are right but that is not what the noisy media supported minority of Maori want.
  Division is all they see and we all will pay foir it.
  I see that some over 200,000 Maori now live overseas.
  Most do not want anything to do with the noisy ones which is why many left, plus Gangs and Drugs.
  Australia 180,000 I believe, less the 501s who all have long criminal convictions, before coming back here many to jail.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:50am
  - PurplePen
    
    Agree. TPM have an estimated 16% of the Maori vote. Thats all. Don’t forget that the govt cabinet has more Maori MPs than TPM, and its a Maori that has introduced the Treaty Principles Bill.
    
    Also he needs to be said, Maori aren’t one singular nation of people with one voice. They are tribal each tribe and in some cases collection of tribes with their own rules, protocols and ways of living. Some tribes still dislike each other from the way they were treated by another tribe.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:29am
    - pdm
      
      PP – The Maori Party have less than 3% of the Party Vote but won 6 seats last election causing an overhang.
      
      My understanding is Maori as a race make up somewhere around 15/17% of New Zealand’s population.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:55am
      - Sacha
        
        Can a population/group of people with ‘mixed blood’ call themselves a ‘race’?
        
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        November 21, 2024 7:03pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Absolutely, Flossie. And, remind yourself that only 18% of Maori voted for TPM and that 82% didn’t. You’re in a vast majority.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:10am
- Quail
  
  Schizophrenia in racism is rife.
  How do people of mixed races deal with their ancestors of different races? Are they allowed to look after the grand children or not?
  And how can these people look in the mirror and decide which part of them belongs to which race?
  What is the criteria they use when choosing to self identify?
  Simply it should ,no must, be that we are all New Zealanders!
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:27am
- cmm
  
  Flossie, I would argue that any Maori who goes onto the Maori roll is already a divisive activist. Any that vote for TPM are definitely so.
  
  Unfortunately a growing number of Maori are signing up for the Maori roll and division.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:35am
  - Jethrod
    
    Is there any indication of the percentage of maorl roll enrollees, that actually voted, and across the spectrum too?
    
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    November 21, 2024 12:35pm
    - cmm
      
      You can look that up on the election website. They have full stats of the number who are enrolled in each electorate and the number that voted.
      
      Over half of people that identify as Maori are on the Maori roll. In some ares it is over 80%. The only reason to be on the Maori roll is because you think you are special and should thus be treated differently. ie. racist activists.
      
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      November 21, 2024 2:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Infowars Website Vanishes: Alex Jones’ Studio Taken Down.
“While they were patting themselves on the back for taking down Infowars.com, what they failed to comprehend is that Jones is like a cockroach in a nuclear disaster.”
“Amidst the grand delusion, the left is acting like they’ve handed the final blow to a heavyweight when in fact, they’ve just punched themselves in the face.”

https://politicalactionalerts.com/infowars-website-vanishes-alex-jones-studio-taken-down/?
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November 21, 2024 8:22am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden Announces $1.4 Billion Climate Spending Amid Economic Concerns.
He is emptying the cupboard, isn’t he?

https://conservativeadvocacy.com/biden-announces-1-4-billion-climate-spending-amid-economic-concerns/?
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November 21, 2024 8:28am
- sherp
  
  Seem Ardern was teaching the dems a few lessons on how to f your own country when she was at the DNC.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:36am
- cmm
  
  $1.4bn is paltry in USA terms.
  
  The US federal debt is increasing at around a trillion dollars every hundred days or $10bn a day.
  
  $1.4bn is just a touch over 3 hours of national debt increase.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is small, but Joe is just wasting money to piss people off.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:59am
    - Jethrod
      
      Has to show he did something!
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:37pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes – Ardern did something too!
        Imagine if kackling Kamala had have won. Ardern would take credit for it, she is that deranged!
        
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        November 21, 2024 3:00pm
- Local Miller
  
  The cupboard is already empty, he is scraping out the bottom of the bowls.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:39am
  - cmm
    
    The cupboard is worse than empty. They have dug themselves a $36 trillion hole called federal debt. That is $273,000 per taxpayer.
    Interest on debt is costing them almost a trillion a year.
    
    Then the unfunded liabilities are over $220 trillion – about $1.3 million per taxpayer.
    
    I don’t think you walk that off.
    
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    November 21, 2024 8:47am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Remember that the difference between a million and a billion is three zeros, and as zeros have no value there is no extra cost.
      AOC.
      
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      November 21, 2024 9:02am
    - Jethrod
      
      And to think the US had NO deficit when Bill C left the WH!
      He did something right.
      
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      November 21, 2024 12:39pm
- Im Right
  
  I think the US public will be shocked when they see how much savings, cutting the excess fat in the thousands of govt departments that get a shit ton of funding from taxpayers and layers and layers of double/triple handling of work.
  Musk will find billions of savings…and it’s all open and transparent, so when the Democrats complain and the reason why certain programs are retired/closed the voting public will be on the side of the savings.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Elon Musk is just the man to do it. He sorted Twitter out big time.
    NZ is a small Country with a small Public Sector by US standards. Can we borrow Elon and Vivek just for 2 months, please?
    
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    November 21, 2024 3:05pm
    - Sacha
      
      Gosh – imagine the uproar if people found that they had to live within their incomes, that they were expected to work a full week, or take a comensural pay cut.
      Those two could sort New Zealand out in a couple of weeks.
      
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      November 21, 2024 7:12pm
- Paulus
  
  Like Ardern and Robertson, assisted by Orr.
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:51am
- AitchW
  
  Obviously learned from Cullen….
  
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  November 21, 2024 8:59am
  - Jethrod
    
    Cullen wasn’t too bad until 2008 when the GFC struck, he didn’t know what to do!
    
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    November 21, 2024 12:42pm
- igm
  
  Must be a disciple of Michael Cullen and Helen Clark . . . par for the left-wing course.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:03am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Mr Magoo also appears to also be trying to trigger a major conflagration in Ukraine while knowing Trump is vowing to get the sides together to make a peace deal. Seems criminal to me. Shouldn’t they just be holding the fort quietly until the new crew takes over???
  
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  November 21, 2024 3:07pm
  - Ghost
    
    they want a war, they want to hand over one huge mess. I wouldn’t be surprised if china takes Taiwan before jan 20th. Currently reports that Putin and his people have shifted to the bunker. Mobile missile trucks deploying in Russia. Embassies evacuating from Kyiv
    
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    November 21, 2024 3:22pm
Yvette

■ Same, without the Treaty –

At what point will disharmony and confusion – as a result of the Treaty Principles Bill, or that statements of mis- and dis-information about it – necessitate quite apart from the direct context of the Treaty, a restatement (wherever the original statement is) that

• the Government has the right to govern – albeit presently doing that [1]
• that all life and legally held property is protected – as it currently attempts to be, stretched as Police facilities are [2] and
• that all New Zealanders have equal responsibilities and rights – again: the current condition, with a handful of exceptions [3]

Also • that the New Zealand Government should be secular – not a current condition, one racial religious world-view is exceptionalized – Aryan-like – above all others [4]

_____________
[1] except for unapproved dancing in the House
[2] I put ‘life’ in there as it seemed perhaps a needed prerequisite
[3] Only Maori may appeal claims to the Waitangi Tribunal, chainsaw the jaws out of stranded Cetacea | dolphins, whales, and porpoises, or (far as I know) wander around the Waipoua Forest, where the relics of an earlier New Zealand inhabitants are hidden.
[4] At Waitangi, 1840, the “4th clause” apparently orally uttered before the signing, but unrecorded, was “E mea ana te Kawana ko nga whakapono katoa o Ingarani, o nga Weteriana, o Roma, me te ritenga Maori hoki e tiakina ngatahitia e ia”, that “The Governor says that the several faiths (beliefs) of England, of the Wesleyans, of Rome and also of Maori custom shall alike be protected” and the only solution allowing alike is that: the Government be religiously neutral.
But it isn’t – see, recent new appointments to the Maori Advisory Council to the Water Regulator, Taumata Arowai. Why no Islamic Water Advisory Council?
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November 21, 2024 8:35am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  “where the relics of an earlier New Zealand inhabitants are hidden”
  
  Don’t clutch at straws. Nobody lived here before the arrival of the Polynesian ancestors of Maori.
  
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  November 21, 2024 6:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Homebuilders Expect Major Growth Under Trump Presidency As Confidence Index Beats Forecasts.
”
The surge in homebuilder confidence is just the beginning. When this industry thrives, it has a ripple effect across the entire economy. More homes mean more jobs—not just for construction workers, but for electricians, plumbers, landscapers, and countless others who contribute to building a home. It also boosts demand for materials, appliances, and furnishings, creating opportunities for small businesses and large corporations alike.”
Paying dividends and he hasn’t taken office yet.

https://pjnewsletter.com/homebuilders-growth-trump-index/?
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November 21, 2024 8:43am
- MCōs
  
  That would be American home builders
  What is of concern to us out here is Kiwi home builders particularly as all the signs are America will be entering a period of enforced self sufficiency with increased trade restrictions
  Ironically an improving economy in China is more to our advantage and I’d expect the PM to place a higher priority on visiting Xi than Trump.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:13am
Observant Octagenarian

Has anyone thought about the impact the United Nations is having around the world?
Their UNDIP (Declaration of Indigenous People) which John Key signed up to seems to be having a lot of effect.
In Canada the Eskimos, in the USA the Indians, in Australia the Aborigines and in NZ the Maori are all causing political uproar.
Would this all be happening without the UN poking its nose into local affairs?
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November 21, 2024 8:44am
- MCōs
  
  Apart from the word Eskimo being an Alaskan colonial construct rather than Canadian, it has become offensive to the people it describes.
  
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  November 21, 2024 10:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Offensive in Alaska as well. We were told that at a Native Alaska presentation we went to. They prefer the Tribe name be used. Mostly Athabascan.
    
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    November 21, 2024 11:46am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Or Inuit ?
      
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      November 21, 2024 1:02pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes. Many different people. Inuit is a broad term meaning Artic Natives, even Greenland.
        5 in Alaska,
        Inupiat and Yup’ik Eskimos: Live primarily along the northern and western coasts, and to some extent inland.
        Aleuts: Inhabit the Aleutian Islands.
        Coastal Indians: Primarily Tlingits and Haidas.
        Athabascans: Live in the interior portions of the state.
        Eyak, Haida, Tsimshian, and Tlingit: In the Inside Passage.
        That is all from the google machine AI person, who I am not sure about.
        
        Athabaskans are the ones that visitors and tourists meet the most. Some of our host families there are part Native Alaskan blood.
        
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        November 21, 2024 3:20pm
Burtland

why NZ is so fxxked – no one with STEM skills will stay

https://www.spacex.com/careers/jobs?program=starship
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November 21, 2024 9:00am
Maggy Wassilieff

Struggling to get your head around things like unconscious bias, equity issues, cultural sensitivity, critical theory etc ?

Then this may be the book for you…

The Counterweight Handbook
Principled Strategies for Surviving and Defeating Critical Social Justice Ideology – at Work, in Schools and Beyond

Author: Helen Pluckrose

A copy has just turned up in my local library…..
I’ll try reading it over the weekend….

https://www.thenile.co.nz/books/helen-pluckrose/the-counterweight-handbook/9781800751088?
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November 21, 2024 9:00am
- cas
  
  If you find yourself struggling with that for your weekend reading, see if your library can get you The Golden Road by William Dalrymple. It is about how Ancient India transformed the world and is fascinating reading. We might think we are more advanced but the levels of sophistication thousands of years ago were stunning.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:12am
  - cmm
    
    … and then what happened?
    PS: It wasn’t British colonialism.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:37am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Until the early 1700’s, India and China were the two biggest economies in the world.
    
    By 2050 the status quo will have returned, and they will be the two biggest economies.
    
    The EU is going downhill and after 5 years of Starmerian Govt the UK will be stuffed.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:38am
    - Groggy
      
      The UK is already stuffed from 14 years of austerity and stupidity, Starmer will not be worse than the Truss and Sunak disasters.
      
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      November 21, 2024 11:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    yep, it’s on my reading list.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:50am
  - mogg
    
    ‘The Anarchy’ also gives amazing insight into The East India Company.
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:12am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Anything by William Dalrymple is a good read
      
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      November 21, 2024 10:33am
      - mogg
        
        Try Thubron, over 80yrs and still travelling the border between Russia and China in ‘The Amur River’.
        
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        November 21, 2024 11:35am
  - kowtow
    
    No doubt past and diverse civilisations etc were advanced etc , no one denies that.
    
    And that’s all well and good .
    
    The question is how are people faring today .
    
    Much of rural India still does not have indoor toilets , connected to a sewer system ( indeed much of urban India doesn’t either and ‘Untouchables’ collect it by hand (( give that a moment’s consideration)) in rural areas sex attcks on young women going to the toilet in fields is at plague proportions , today.
    
    As to how China and India will be in 2050 who’s to say . Neither country is particularly stable , unified or peaceful .Anything can happen.Anywhere.
    
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    November 21, 2024 10:59am
- nathie
  
  Sounds interesting, please give us a review in due course if you are able to! 🙂
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:39am
Yvette

■ Without the Treaty –

Various sources –

• … the most profound constitutional question of all has been asked on the floor of parliament: did Māori cede sovereignty when they signed te Tiriti in 1840?
… Labour leader Chris Hipkins accepts there was no Māori cession of sovereignty, but that somehow the Crown has sovereignty now.

• During Question Time, Green Co-Leader Chloe Swarbrick pushed him on the issue multiple times, asking “does the prime minister believe that Māori ceded sovereignty?”
Luxon responded saying “our position is the Crown is sovereign.”

• “It’s absolute nonsense. We have always said, that we’re not interested in owning the water assets. What we’re interested in is the proprietor rights over water, and that is a discussion to be had with the Crown, not with councils.” https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/29/iwi-involvement-aims-to-further-safeguard-water-assets-robertson/
There is no power in pipes – they are only provision, maintenance, expenditure and headache.
Power is in what is in the pipes. Real power is “proprietor rights over water”
Not just what comes out your kitchen tap, or goes off down the toilet, but what surges through Benmore, and the limb of the Waikato. the tupuna, mauri which Auckland drinks.

• Beyond parliament, inflammatory and easily discredited disinformation about te Tiriti has circulated widely, backed by those who also advocate for the Treaty Principles Bill and its aim to cement into law a fundamental rewriting of te Tiriti.

• Early Waitangi Tribunal reports confirmed there was no cession of sovereignty, and derived the relevant “principles” from te Tiriti.

• Maybe ACT can be thanked, after all, for exposing the chimera of Treaty principles to proper scrutiny, and opening the door to engaging with the fundamental constitutional challenge of what honouring te Tiriti o Waitangi means for Aotearoa New Zealand today.

While Govt is to change or remove Treaty of Waitangi provisions in 28 laws the same should be done to David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill – in advance.
Just pass something that says the Government can govern, life and property is protected, and everyone has equal responsibilities and rights.

When will all this confusion demand a restatement of constitutional rights – Government has sovereignty, personal property rights, and of equal social responsibilities and voting rights – irrespective of the Treaty, to be made to anchor some sense, direction and social reassurance in it all?

Something that is a little constitutional, is not just a treaty between one ethnic group and the Crown, but an all-inclusive foundation to a nation?
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November 21, 2024 9:04am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  If Maori did not cede sovereignty, can we have the billions back that they have been given over the centuries???
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:40am
Cassandra

Radio NZ website: headline reads “Government policies dragging out recession, economists say”. Then when you open the article you see that the economists are Ganesh Nana, Rob Campbell and Susan St John. And the MSM wonder why I think that they’re a lot of rubbish. If RNZ had inserted “left-wing” before economists (although is Campbell really an economist?) then I’d be praising them. A little bit of honesty helps. Our MSM has never learned that.
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November 21, 2024 9:09am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yeah, and they’d like a meeting with the Minister of Finance.
  
  $100B of extra debt during 2017-23 just wasn’t enough, huh.
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:12am
- MCōs
  
  Here is the letter complete with a full list of signatories. You can please yourself what you think of the letter by who put their name to it or by its content https://ganeshnana.substack.com/p/economists-call-for-immediate-suspension?utm_medium=email
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:25am
  - Cassandra
    
    It’d be a useful debate. While it’s true that NZ has a more favourable ratio than some OECD countries, being less of a basket case still leaves you as a basket case. Spending money badly may well help some people in the short term but it’s still money that’s badly spent. And diverting a whole lot of government staff from achieving very little into the private sector where they’d have to work for a living will be a great boost to the economy.
    
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    November 21, 2024 9:46am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    The content is basically “you’re shrinking the economy by not wasting taxpayer money” and “we need to increase the value of our exports” but they still want to tax the life out of the exporters.
    
    However, Nana and Renney are heavily linked to the political Left and should always be ignored.
    Nana did a report a few years ago for the Greens saying their farmer tax would only destroy about 10% of dairy farm businesses if the dairy payout dropped to $6. It dropped to about $3.50.
    
    The idea that they think they know anything is astounding.
    
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    November 21, 2024 11:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Such a pity they didn’t share a bit of their economic wisdom with Jazzy and Robbo 6 years ago ….
  
  or maybe they did!
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:55am
I remember when

Why Oil Companies Are Walking Back From Green Energy: NY Times.
“As leaders gather for a global climate summit, investors are rewarding oil giants like Exxon Mobil that did not embrace wind and solar.”
“..,Darren Woods, Exxon Mobil’s chief executive, said in an interview with The New York Times last week at a United Nations climate conference in Baku, Azerbaijan.
“I had a lot of pressure to get into the wind and solar business,”
“Instead, the company invested in areas like hydrogen and lithium extraction that are more akin to its traditional business.
Wall Street has rewarded the company for those bets.
The company’s stock price has climbed more than 70% since the end of 2019, lifting its market valuation to a record of nearly $560 billion in October, though it has since fallen to about $524 billion.”
The American oil giant’s performance stands in contrast with BP and Shell, oil and gas companies based in London that embraced wind, solar and other technologies like electric-vehicle charging.
BP’s stock has fallen around 19% in that time, based on trading in London, while Shell has climbed about 15%.”

What people risking their own money think!
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November 21, 2024 10:09am
Allan

The U.K. has cancelled the purchase of naval assault ships to save money on defence spending.

The need to keep spending more on socialism is disarming Britain just as Putin wants to ramp up his war effort.

You would have thought the poms would have learnt the lessons from their last European war.

Don’t appease a tyrant and expect peace in our time.
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November 21, 2024 10:09am
- kowtow
  
  Hilarious , if it weren’t so serious .
  
  NATO Arctic “exercises” , meanwhile actual hybrid warfare in the Baltic with submarine cables being cut .
  
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  November 21, 2024 11:04am
- cmm
  
  What they really need are high speed patrol boats with 50 cal or 7.62 machine guns to shoot up the “immigrants” invading from France.
  
  That’s where the real danger is coming from.
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:39pm
Matt Long

We know WWE wrestling is fake, but fortunately boxing…
https://x.com/proxcee/status/1858946269127041408
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November 21, 2024 10:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yes, there was an open way – but put apparently putting Paul on his arse meant $0. I think.
  Some think Hollywood is fake LOL!
  
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  November 21, 2024 4:02pm
Matt Long

Brian Tamaki has charges dropped over covid protests.
But but but what about all the millions who died because the protesters didn’t say locked inside as the clown princess ordered?
It sets a dangerous precedent when politicians can’t use quisling directors of health, police and judiciary to intimidate political opponents, Fortunately we have Starmer to uphold a two tier rule of law.
https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rnz.co.nz%2Fnews%2Fnational%2F534316%2Fpolice-drop-covid-related-charges-against-brian-tamaki-lawyer&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4
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November 21, 2024 10:21am
rouppe

Civilian disarms offender

Give that man a DB.
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November 21, 2024 10:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He will probably be charges with interfering with Police business.//
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:01pm
cmm

Calling a kid Kaoss might not be a good thing, but it is likely indicative of the environment this bloke was raised in and the expectations set on him for the future.

The IPCA found that the police were not justified in shooting an “unarmed” man.

Bullshit. He was trying to start a vehicle. A vehicle is a multi-ton weapon. He had moments previously used a different vehicle as a weapon and would likely have done so again.

To say he was unarmed is absurd.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-shooting-of-kaoss-price-unjustified-says-ipca-in-rare-decision-against-police/DKK4ETQLRZGWXEURXBLRWBAV5Y/
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November 21, 2024 10:44am
- rouppe
  
  Here’s another one of those names…
  
  Rickah’Shae
  
  Only he’s another victim, “killed in suspicious circumstances”.
  
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  November 21, 2024 2:07pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsYXyCivYLg
Trump to Shutter Department of Education as Musk praises idea.
Robby Soave and Amber Duke react to Donald Trump’s reported plan to shutter the Department of Education/Indoctrination. [It’ll be the responsibility of the 50 states. Leftists are losing their minds.]
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November 21, 2024 10:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those types of leftists have no minds to lose!
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:06pm
  - sungsamning
    
    True. They’re definitely behaving like spoilt kindergarteners though. Pity that can’t be done here.
    
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    November 21, 2024 2:38pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ8kv1hUxpw
The UK Tries to Summon Elon Musk.
They don’t like X. Allowing both sides to express their opinion is decidedly threatening to ‘democracy’. The recent killing of three children brought the issue to the fore. If the globalists don’t agree; its ‘disinformation’.
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November 21, 2024 10:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They can summons Zuckerberg too then.
  Really they want someone to blame. How about blaming the rioters?
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:09pm
  - sungsamning
    
    That wouldn’t fit the narrative.
    
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    November 21, 2024 2:39pm
Ghost

Perhaps the police could offer this piece of shit a seat in the prison van to bring him down. I hope no schools in Christchurch have employed him and his wife

A man who knocked a student off a scooter in Timaru is continuing his bid to avoid appearing in the town for his sentencing.

Matalei Samuel Mohuanga admitted charges of assaulting a person with a blunt instrument and failing to stop to ascertain injury or death in the Timaru District Court in September.

article
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November 21, 2024 11:13am
- Jack5
  
  Mohaunga should be deported, but the wide a-Woke Immigration and Protection Tribunal would probably over-rule that.
  
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  November 21, 2024 11:20am
  - MCōs
    
    Deported to where?
    Maybe he’s a kiwi of Tongan heritage.
    
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    November 21, 2024 2:59pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Tonga
      
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      November 21, 2024 6:52pm
Chris Nisbet

Well, isn’t this nice? The cost of electricity will be going through the roof over the next few years.

“From 1 April 2025, the distribution and transmission component of a monthly electricity bill is estimated to increase by $10 ($120 annually) on average per household for the first year of the five-year regulatory period, exclusive of GST, at a national level. This is equivalent to an increase of about 5% in the average household’s electricity bill. After the first year, consumers can expect monthly bills to increase by an average of $5 ($60 annually), in each of the four remaining years.”

https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/media-releases/2024/consumer-benefit-key-as-comcom-allows-increased-investment-in-electricity-network
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November 21, 2024 11:49am
- Blog-aholic
  
  If you ever wonder why New Zealand has an electricity supply problem it is because we have a demand problem.
  The fact that data/server centres produce large amounts of heat energy that is not recycled probaby because it is too expensive but in using that electrical energy these ‘centres’ also use ALOT of electricity.
  The standard Google search uses about 0.29-0.3Wh of eletricity….. the comparible AI search request like a ChatGPT one uses about 2.9Wh of electricity in that single request.
  
  This is 10 times more power consumed everytime…..and with AI gowth through Google the outcome of demand exceeding supply is obvious…..
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:33pm
- cmm
  
  This is for distribution and transmission – essentially the wiring.
  
  This does not cover generation so we can expect increases there too.
  
  It would seem to be a bit of a porky saying that this is a 5% increase in the electricity bill. Our line maintenance charge is about $38 a month, so a $10 increase to that would be 26%.
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:37pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Non residential lines charges are about $130 a month around here and our house is about $80.
    
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    November 21, 2024 1:49pm
    - cmm
      
      Bloody hell! $80 is rather high. Are you out in the wops?
      
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      November 21, 2024 2:26pm
      - Dougal10
        
        Not really our closest neighbour is only 3.5 km away and its only 37 km to a shop that sells milk and things.
        
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        November 21, 2024 5:17pm
- Matt Long
  
  Someone has to pay for the Australian’s sweetheart deal at Glenbrook.
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:39pm
- Burtland
  
  well we all knew this was coming – someone has to pay for network upgrades for the electric economy and more subsidies for electric cars
  
  maybe Rod Carr should be a bit more transparent on what all this will cost and whos going to pay
  
  $US69T to go carbonzero globally – who pays? it will require massive transfers to the third world – the G20 3rd world socialists says the ultra rich should pay – they just happen to be mostly in the US
  
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  November 21, 2024 12:40pm
- Dougal10
  
  They have to reverse engineer the grid to allow electricity to be able to enter it from everywhere and almost anywhere.
  This is a cost of going down a renewables path where almost anybody can be a generator but you still need to get power to the user.
  
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  November 21, 2024 1:46pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    For a good book about managing the grid, try “The Grid” by Gretchen Bakke. It’s a bit more complex than just stringing a few wires here and there ….
    
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    November 21, 2024 4:18pm
    - Taieri
      
      It’s a bit more complex than just stringing a few wires here and there
      ——–
      
      It is indeed.
      Particularly when the expert’s expertise is underwritten by PhD in cultural antropology. And in sovietology and photography in her first degree. A true Polymath that one…
      
      “The Grid brings anthropological sensibilities to a study of the immense
      infrastructural, historical, technological, legislative, and fiscal complexity of the US electric grid.”
      
      https://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/sites/default/files/2021-04/bakke_cv_0.pdf
      
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      November 21, 2024 5:30pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Jeepers!
        
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        November 21, 2024 6:53pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Presumably all the extra transmission lines to unreliables sites, plus the mandatory extra backup for the unreliables, plus mitigation devices to handle wrong-direction electron flow from home solar in a system designed for one way flow.
  
  The cost of energy underpins the cost of everything. Instead of learning from Germany, the UK and other renewables economic destruction cases, (poor and middle class) NZ will have to learn the hard way.
  
  I guess once NZ is turned into some seriously sad mess like South Africa, a leader prepared to turn everything on it’s head to restore sanity will arise.
  
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  November 21, 2024 3:35pm
Burtland

the most reviled NZer gets another f’ing award

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dame-jacinda-ardern-to-be-given-united-nations-leadership-award/EFQEKR3HM5DGHFRYPBNDT3CX5I/
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November 21, 2024 12:11pm
- nathie
  
  The citation said it recognised her trailblazing and empathetic leadership, her commitment to championing the rights of women, combatting climate change and fostering of unity and peace.
  
  Well after reading the citation awarded it’s clear the UNF are just as deluded as the recipient!
  
  But then, who in their right mind would accept such an embarrassing (let alone questionable) accolade?
  
  Then again look further down the article to see who they have awarded previous citations to (mostly themselves).
  
  Which surely any reasonable person would be totally embarrassed to be associated with these “awards”?!!
  
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  November 21, 2024 1:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Saw my f ing whatever off.
  Does her nonsense and those giving it to her never stop?
  
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  November 21, 2024 6:47pm
Tauhei Notts

Godzone.
Here was me thinking that Richard J. Seddon had put a trademark on that term. But no. Kerala state’s official tourism campaign is “God’s Own Country”
WTF is Kerala you may ask. Kerala is in the south west of India. Vadakkenchery is a Brahmin neighbourhood in Kerala that is the home town of Vivek Ramaswamy, co-leader of The USA’s Department of Government Efficiency.
Some of my friends tell me that I am a font of utterly useless information.
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November 21, 2024 12:23pm
- MCōs
  
  Tell them to read the newspapers
  3-0
  
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  November 21, 2024 1:15pm
Sparrow

The [Mod – abuse delete] often found on this blog and others regarding the use of Aotearoa has always fascinated me. New Zealand is named after a Dutch province which is apparently acceptable.
Started to read Elsdon Best book The Māori he mentions Aotearoa numerous times in a book written 100 years ago. I realise that there is controversy regarding the history of Aotearoa and apparently was not used by Māori. Forgetting all that I looked at my old passports and found the following. Passport issued in 1995 had Te reo, my 2005 renewal had New Zealand- Aotearoa on the first page. So to my knowledge our passports for over 20 years have proudly carried the two names. They are interchangeable. What’s wrong with using either one to meet the particular circumstance.
I don’t believe anybody is calling for the use of Aotearoa only, could be wrong. Aotearoa is now on cover of paassport
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November 21, 2024 12:53pm
- MCōs
  
  My first passport, issued 1972, is bilingual. English/French. It also contains personal information not included these days e.g. Visible Peculiarities. We had a laugh over that one in the family the other day.
  The photos were much more jolly in those days!
  
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  November 21, 2024 2:24pm
- Burtland
  
  aotearoa is a pakeha fraud …
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300417289/aotearoa-nu-treni-new-zealand–its-a-complicated-issue
  
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  November 21, 2024 2:48pm
- cmm
  
  Of course New Zealand is named after somewhere else. New anything is. Australia was once called New Holland. New Plymouth is named after – I’ll let you guess.
  
  No, the names are not interchangeable. New Zealand is on the maps the world understands. There is an NZ dollar.
  
  The issue is not the word. The issue is the set of ideas and attitudes that it has come to convey.
  Those that want unity etc talk of New Zealand. Those who want division and Maori supremacy talk of Aoteroa.
  
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  November 21, 2024 3:36pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Of itself it’s not really a biggie. But it’s now part of the woke war on sanity so automatically grinds the gears of the anti-woke.
  
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  November 21, 2024 3:38pm
- Jack5
  
  Tasman may have named New Zealand after his Dutch province of Zeeland, but I’ve met Danes who think it is named after their biggest island, Zealand.
  
  The English language, which is dominant in this part of the world and in slabs of the rest of the world, is in the West Germanic branch of the Germanic family of languages.
  
  The name “New Zealand” translates into some other Germanic languages like this:
  
  German, Neuseeland; Dutch, Nieuw-Zeeland; Swedish, Nya Zeeland; Icelandic, Nýja Sjáland; Frisian (said to be English’s closest linguistic relative), Nij Seelân; Afrikaans, Nieu-Seeland.
  
  They all mean “new sea land”.’ That’s not a bad name for one of the most isolated countries in the world, a country that’s an archipelago in the world’s greatest ocean.
  
  The “new” is apt for the last land area in the world to be settled by humans.
  
  We have the digital suffix — the internet domain — “.nz”. The “Aotearoa” equivalent would be “.ao”, but that belongs to Angola.
  
  Renaming the country would be a an expensive and long international “re-brand”.
  
  “Aotearoa” lamb, or “Aotearoa reme”? In business online currency talk, the spot rate of “tāra o Aotearoa”?
  
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  November 21, 2024 9:05pm
MCōs

Dance, dance, dance to my Trump guitar
https://gettrumpguitars.com/products/donald-j-trump-gold-electric-guitar
Dance, dance, dance to my autographed Trump guitar https://gettrumpguitars.com/products/american-eagle-electric-guitar-autographed
3 2
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November 21, 2024 1:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You want a signed red MAGA hat, don’t you?
  
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  November 21, 2024 6:49pm
Ghost

Kill an elderly man that is trying to help the child you abandoned at the park, home detention. Don’t kill a man 6 years jail

A world champion rower and New Zealand Olympian has described the horrific aftermath of being smashed into by an enraged, speeding driver while he was working in a road works crew.

Dave Rodger’s voice broke when speaking about his concerns for his children and his wife Dianne, as he read out his victim impact statement in the High Court in Hamilton on Thursday.

Meanwhile, the man who had deliberately driven into him, Finn Alexander Higgins, 29, sat in the dock staring dully straight ahead as his fate was determined: Six years and one month behind bars.

Article

This is horrific and deserve the jail time, but we need to seriously ask questions about some of the lack of sentences people are getting from some judges
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November 21, 2024 1:58pm
- Yabster
  
  obvious poor old “Finn” didn’t have a bad up bringing, no cultural report etc-
  
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  November 21, 2024 2:18pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  And I wonder if the perp was a meth user. So often is the case with these rage driven violence cases. So elsewhere on this blog today we have a meth dealer given all these “kindness” discounts in sentencing to the point where she gets home-D. Things are seriously messed up to the point of insanity.
  
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  November 21, 2024 2:22pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Yes, exactly, you beat me to it.
    
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    November 21, 2024 5:59pm
Sparrow

Have a question for the moderator if it’s allowed.

[Mod – When you start off a post calling people on this blog a name, just debate topics without that]
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November 21, 2024 2:08pm
kevn

Robert on the button as usual…
In our own little clown circus.
https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/nz-descends-into-a-s-show-on-the-world-stage-mps-mock-judges-legal-royalty-mock-mps-other-mp
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November 21, 2024 3:00pm
Chuck Bird

FYI

Family First BREAKING NEWS – Puberty blockers review

https://www.youtube.com/live/El2EIy__q9U
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November 21, 2024 3:25pm
- mandk
  
  This is excellent news.
  
  Given puberty blockers to minors is gross child abuse, especially when it is the case that gender dysmorphia in adolescents is often transitory.
  
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  November 21, 2024 4:41pm
  - Keith White
    
    But will the previous reckless woke criminal prescribers and dispensers be called to account? Doubtful.
    
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    November 21, 2024 6:09pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I am glad to hear HDPA is discussing this.
  
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  November 21, 2024 4:45pm
Jack5

Strong Eagle plucked …

A Canadian Cabinet Minister has resigned after being accused of faking his alleged indigenous ancestry.

Randy Boissonnault, the Employment Minister, had described himself as a “non-status adopted Cree”, one of the biggest Canadian “Indian” tribes and that his great-grandmother was a “full-blooded Cree woman”.

The Telegraph reports Boissonnault once claimed his indigenous name was “Strong Eagle Man”.

He has subsequently said his great-grandmother’s family had Métis descent rather than being Cree.

The Metis are Canada’s third official indigenouse group (the others are the “First Nation” (“Indians”) and the Inuit.

The Metis, who are mainly in Canada’s prairie provinces, are of mixed “Indian” and White fur trapper descent, and number 600,000 or 700,000.
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November 21, 2024 3:26pm
- kowtow
  
  I see the Canadian Globe and Mail newspaper uses a capital I for indigenous .
  
  I wonder if using the lower case i in indigenous is offensive these days , as per the US progressives insisting on a capital B for blacks.
  
  So hard to keep up these days and can’t stop giving offense.
  
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  November 21, 2024 7:05pm
Jethrod

Hello cmm,
I have just had a look at the Maori seats 2023 electorate returns, it makes interesting reading especially the Act and NZFirst totals, followed closely by National.
https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2023/statistics/percentage-candidate-votes-for-registered-parties.html
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November 21, 2024 4:03pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360495357/labour-claims-erica-stanford-has-been-calling-mps-stupid-b

well, she’s not wrong…..
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November 21, 2024 4:06pm
- Inandout
  
  slight, the standards have fallen so low I am not surprised.
  
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  November 21, 2024 5:03pm
zulumonster

Surely the truth is still a valid defence?
Stanford accused of calling Labour MP’s hurty names …
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360495357/labour-claims-erica-stanford-has-been-calling-mps-stupid-b
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November 21, 2024 4:27pm
- nathie
  
  Go Erica Stanford … she is spot on!
  
  The Labour Party (who I used to support a long time ago but no more, never ever again) are a disgrace and deserve all the mocking they get for being totally useless, fixating on the wrong issues, destroying the economy during their time in Govt and undermining those doing their best to uplift the country and its citizens.
  
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  November 21, 2024 5:03pm
- Ghost
  
  Interesting the difference a few days makes huh.
  
  Last week outrage at a minister being called a see you next Tuesday. This week people supportive of a minister calling someone a bitch. Surely if we want the standards upheld in parliament we should demand it from all and not support this behaviour from anyone.
  
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  November 21, 2024 5:10pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Ghost, did Stanford get up off her chair go over to Jan, dance proactively in front of her and scream in her face the words complained of ?. If not I think we are talking about degrees of offending and while you may be technically correct to raise the point i still think there is world of difference in intent and Scope.
    
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    November 21, 2024 5:32pm
  - Keith White
    
    Alinsky Rules 4 and 5 I believe…
    
    “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
    
    “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
    
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    November 21, 2024 6:11pm
Hugh Jarse

How come Erica Stanford is apologising for making statements of fact ?
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November 21, 2024 5:02pm
- nathie
  
  Erica Standford has (and continues) to achieve better outcomes for education.
  
  In contrast Labour’s Jan Tinetti (and her predecessor Chris Hipkins) oversaw a decline in educational outcomes and standards. Shame on them!
  
  If anything, Erica Stanford was being rather restrained in her criticism of Jan Tinetti!
  
  Tinetti (and Hipkins) should crawl back under a rock … and stay there. NZ would be a better off place without their gaslighting!
  
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  November 21, 2024 5:21pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360495742/bill-clinton-says-first-us-female-president-will-be-conservative-republican

And he hopes that she will wear a dark blue dress to her inauguration…..
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November 21, 2024 9:28pm

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