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November 26, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 November 2024

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General Debate

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Maggy Wassilieff

I remember a fellow teacher telling me that it would be 25 years (1 generation) before the NZ Education Department would admit that their NCEA qualification was NOT a world-leading way of assessing a pupil’s learning.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/534796/ncea-level-1-not-working-ero-calls-for-another-overhaul
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November 26, 2024 8:07am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Surely the answer is to simply licence an overseas qualification system that works well. Maybe from the UK, Victoria Australia, Singapore, whatever. Then sack everyone at the Ministry responsible for the current mess.
  
  BTW I would do exactly the same with the curriculum. Why on earth does New Zealand need it’s own maths curriculum? Pay Singapore a licence fee. Or Estonia. There are probably ten to choose from.
  
  I don’t understand why the government does not deal to this outfit.😩
  
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  November 26, 2024 8:24am
  - Cassandra
    
    There’s a lot the Government could do. Why do we have a Ministry of Maori Development? Women’s Affairs? And as for funding the Royal Society and the Marsden I’m speechless. But as you recommend, a start with Education should have happened on Day One.
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:30am
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Bang on Benedict.
      
      An alternative would be to recruit someone from the UK, who was responsible for implementing their education system, to do the same here, no need to pay royalties.
      
      Then sack everyone in the MOE!
      
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      November 26, 2024 8:40am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        An alternative would be to recruit someone from the UK,
        
        I recall that a UK import was responsible for much of the constructivist approach to the NZ science curriculum introduced in the 1990s. He seems to have been blighted by his experience of not getting into a grammar school upon sitting the 11+.
        
        He had no awareness that NZ’s schools (at that time) did not run on the same social class-competitive system.
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:30am
      - kowtow
        
        MW
        
        As I recall ncea is a Scottish import , designed to give everyone a piece of paper to show they’ve had an education .
        
        Because under the old system up to 20% were ‘failures’, now even more are!
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:47am
  - Taieri
    
    Surely the answer is to simply licence an overseas qualification system that works well.
    ———-
    
    And not just that. The way NZ health system is being managed is scandalous. The colossal waste there is simply unbelievable. Yet, there are comparable countries that do it well; why don’t we use their experiences?
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:33am
    - EssenX
      
      Because we’re different… except every country that has rapidly modernised, industrialised or improved the way they do things (whether that be Japan or Poland) looked offshore and copied what worked. Unfortunately, in NZ whether we’re building houses or teaching kids, we try to do it bespoke, which we simply don’t have the scale to do.
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:26am
    - Ra Henare
      
      We have a world leading Health Systems expert in NZ.
      
      Why not listen to him.
      Dr Des Gorman.
      
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      November 26, 2024 1:32pm
  - Paulus
    
    Because over the years Helen Clark decided who to appoint to run her Education Department – now they are as big as any Mafia, who have no intention of listening to anybody with whom they disagree, and their senior staff are scared stiff of not accepting from the top as to what is actually happening – and they are paid more than in the Privare sector.
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:42am
    - Taieri
      
      Helen Clark has been gone for 16 years or so by now…
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:52am
      - Paulus
        
        So what has changed from what Helen Clark set up ?
        
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        November 26, 2024 2:39pm
  - Grunter
    
    The existing Government monopoly of NZ schools has failed just like all other Government monopolies that have existed. Until we get rid of the Ministry of Education completely we will continue to see failure.
    
    Fund the pupil not the school is how successful countries operate schools. Let the market decide. It really is as simple as that.
    
    Of course, that solution will never be adopted in NZ. If you want a proper education for your children they need to live somewhere else.
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:57am
    - Flossie
      
      I would seriously like to know how funding the pupil would work.
      Does the Tax Payer give money to the child’s parent/guardian and the child is sent off to the best school possible. Or do certain adults add the funds to their drug/drink pot and forget to send the child to any school at all.
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:17am
      - EssenX
        
        It’s not that hard. Effectively, the parents have a voucher that can be redeemed at a school. The parents then have choice where to enrol. School gets funds by cashing enrolling the student.
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:28am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes what EssenX says.
        
        You need to be prepared to let the dud schools shut down. Even more critically you need to let the successful schools quickly expand. Do whatever it takes.
        
        Let’s assume that Wellington Girls College is over subscribed. It needs to be able to quickly establish new branches in, say, Upper Hutt and Porirua.
        
        Yes there would be much detail to work through but it could be done.
        
        I have worked at the Ministry of Education. More than once. It is a cross betwen the State Planning Committee of the former Soviet Union and the mafia.
        
        No matter how bad and damaging you think that the Ministry is, I am telling you that it is ten times worse than you could possibly imagine.
        
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        November 26, 2024 11:08am
      - gravedodger
        
        Your scary notions will require a monetisation of the Voucher that the Child carries to be handed to the chosen school, that would require provable fraud would it not.
        Is there trading of grocery vouchers issued by welfare agencies?
        
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        November 26, 2024 2:28pm
      - Grunter
        
        gravedodger
        It wouldn’t be a physical piece of paper. A simple bank transfer to an approved school. No other transaction would be allowed. Each pupil has their own ‘education fund account’ under their own name. A few simple rules and regs around it.
        
        It’s a decent first step away from the central govt controlling the entire life of a pupil.
        
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        November 26, 2024 3:23pm
      - Jack5
        
        Grunter’s … The existing Government monopoly of NZ schools ….
        
        What about Catholic schools? Presbyterian schools like St Andrews, John McGlashen? The (Seventh Day) Adventist schools from Auckland to Invercargill? The Islamic schools from Auckland to Dunedin – for example:
        
        https://iqra.school.nz/
        
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        November 26, 2024 4:54pm
    - Taieri
      
      The existing Government monopoly of NZ schools has failed
      ———–
      
      Education system, both public and private, in Singapore is managed by their ministry of education.
      Scandinavian education systems are being run in a similar way.
      All these countries are at the top of educational achievement rankings.
      
      NZ problem is the wrong people in the wrong place and no one willing to bring them to account.
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:57am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Te Tiriti…?
    
    (And maths (and Buddha knows any number of other subjects) is racist).
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:59am
  - GazzaW
    
    Many Catholic primary schools have been using a Singapore maths curriculum for some time. I’m not sure what the contractual details are or for how long the Singapore system has been in place but I assume that the initiative was taken during the Ardern years.
    
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    November 26, 2024 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That would mean the Education Department would lose control.
    Can’t have that in the Aotearoa socialist utopia. Rely on another Country to do things properly? No way.
    
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    November 26, 2024 9:19am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “That would mean the Education Department would lose control.”
      
      That’s how stupid they are, they don’t want to lose control of a train wreck…
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:50am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Desperation isn’t it?
        
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        November 26, 2024 2:53pm
  - RoboRob
    
    With regards to the MOE. They have announced that the text books for the new curriculum will be delayed. Apparently demand was high and they will be unable to supply books to some schools until mid term 1.
    
    Comments
    
    1. Demand is not unexpected. The MOE knows exactly how many students did NCEA L1 maths this year. Apparently there will be less dioing it next year as schools pull out of NCEA L1.
    
    2. We are talking about printing text books. There are dozens of NZ print shops that could print a few thousand books within weeks (and be happy for the business). There are Chinese (and other) print shops that would be happy to print 100,000 or so text books and would ship before Christmas.
    
    So what is the real reason why some text books cant be supplied?
    My money is on either mismanagement at the MOE where some pleb ordered from a supplier who cant supply on time OR budget constraints. I suspect more likely its mismanagement. Either way, heads should roll and I am talking at the top level. Where is the normally awesome Erika Stanford on this?
    
    p.s. Before people say ‘the minister cant just sack the CEO’, that’s right wing ass covering BS. If the minister cant directly sack the CEO they can certainly sack the Board and replace them with one that will sack the CEO.
    
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    November 26, 2024 9:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Good stuff Rob. You are correct, sack the board and get the CEO sacked!
      Get Elon and Vivek in there.
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:56am
    - Paulus
      
      The Education Department are telling us that they remain totally in charge on all things that they want, despite what Government are in power.
      I assume they cannot wait until Labour get back in so that they will continue to destroy the education of children of New Zealand in their Marxis (and Maori) belief.
      
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      November 26, 2024 11:06am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The Ministry of Education does not have a Board. Just saying. Only person who could dismiss a CE is the Public Service Commissioner.
      
      BTW the position of CE of education is currently vacant. Will be interesting to see who gets it. If one of the current second tier managers gets it we are doomed.
      
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      November 26, 2024 11:13am
      - RoboRob
        
        Ha, was sure you would respond 🙂
        
        Seems to me my point remains.
        
        If the minister is unhappy with the CEO, or in this case the acting CE, they can have the board or in this case the Public Service Commissioner sack them.
        
        Heads need to roll in the MOE for such an epic failure of basic duty. We need to have repercussions for failure.
        
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        November 26, 2024 11:26am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “If the minister is unhappy with the CEO, or in this case the acting CE, they can have the board or in this case the Public Service Commissioner sack them.”
        
        That might be what you wish for. However it does not currently apply. In no scenario can any Minister direct the Public Service Commissioner to terminate the employment of a public service chief executive.
        
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        November 26, 2024 2:02pm
      - Paulus
        
        But to have one who is not directly aligned to what the Education Department is currently doing will not be difficult, as there are many so aligned to do so and will be supported by the second, third, fourth etc levels of the 4,000 people in the Department.
        They are all well attuned to their own well paid things.
        
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        November 26, 2024 2:44pm
  - EssenX
    
    Great suggestions from both of you. You two could be the Musk and Ramaswamy of NZ and make some simple but very effective changes.
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:25am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Boy that needs a lot of upticks.
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:57am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Try Aus, just about every state has a different curriculum.
    
    Easy answer is to use an overseas qualification, ie GCSE or Baccalaureate.
    
    Problem is that most teachers would not be able to pass it themselves.
    
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    November 26, 2024 6:16pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, after listening to Luxon speaking with Hosking this morning I have kind of lost hope that this Coalition will make any sweeping changes. The PM is full of ‘you knows’ but is very reluctant to be nailed on any issue. He keeps harping on about NZ being deep in debt but won’t slash any areas wasting taxpayer money.
  
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  November 26, 2024 8:49am
  - Sacha
    
    I’m surprised you could hear the PM under the continual shouting from Hosking.
    Excitedly repeating the same question, more shrilly and with increasing volume doesn’t make for good listening.
    Not to mention that it’s bad manners to shout at your guests.
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:22am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Perhaps he has got tired of the PM ducking and weaving without answering a direct question?
      
      Old “straight talking leader Christopher” seems to have been replaced by ol’ Chris from middle management.
      
      …But its complicated, I have developed another 100 day plan… etc etc
      
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      November 26, 2024 1:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He is scared.
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:58am
    - pdm
      
      I think more he has realised he is making conflicting/incompatible statements in too many areas.
      
      “I mean” “I mean” The PM job is not as easy as he thought.
      
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      November 26, 2024 7:27pm
- Burtland
  
  Labours Oscar contenders for “who can create the biggest mess” has a new front runner 🏆 MoEd – Tinetti/Hipkins 🏆
  
  Current leaders
  MoHealth – Clark/Hipkins/Little/Verrall
  MoPolice – Nash/Hipkins/Woods/Williams/Andersen
  MoMaori – Mahuta/Jackson
  MoFinance – Robertson
  
  The contenders are so numerous we may need new special categories
  – biggest fiscal mess, biggest individual mess, most communities affected
  Mother of all fxxkups is already awarded to Cindy
  Lifetime fxxxup award to Geoffery Palmer
  
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  November 26, 2024 8:51am
  - RoboRob
    
    Dont forget the awfull Megan Woods who has left us with a dire energy shortage and up coming massive power bill price rises.
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:12am
  - pdm
    
    Burt – do you not mean:
    
    Tinetti, Hipkins, mummy Hipkins.
    
    In saying that I assume Chippies mother remains in the upper echelons of the Education Department.
    
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    November 26, 2024 7:29pm
- Colinxy
  
  Does anyone know who were the “brains” behind NCEA or were they faceless and unaccountable bureaucrats?
  
  It would be interesting to know if Paulo Friere’s (Neo) Marxist thoughts got injected into it. It would explain why it is so poor at educating children (it isn’t supposed to, Friere’s pedagogy is turn students into Marxists).
  
  There have been Frierean idiots in NZ long before NCEA got off the ground – people like Sue Bradford and Catherine Delahunty amongst others. Where being actually educated is considered Bourgeoisie.
  
  We sought inspiration and guidance from the teachings of Paulo Freire and educators like Frs Filip Fanchette and John Curnow who brought the tools of Freirean structural analysis to Aotearoa in the 1980s.
  
  Bradford’s own words.
  
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  November 26, 2024 8:57am
  - Burtland
    
    introduced under Trevor Mallard and Clark starting 2002
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:17am
    - Colinxy
      
      My fault for not being explicit enough. I meant the people who actually came up with NCEA and what it would contain…not the rubber stamping of Mallard.
      
      I’m sure Mallard helped direct it, but he lacked the brainpower to undertake anything of that matter.
      
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      November 26, 2024 11:15am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The NZQA was tasked with coming up with a new qualification system for NZ.
        
        I don’t know who the “brains” behind the NCEA was, but it was pushed hard by the folks who leaped into new positions created by the Min of Education to act as advisors and assessors and writers of the achievement standards.
        
        NCEA – Bane or boon
        https://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/2292/25142/ACE_Paper_7_Issue_15.pdf?sequence=1
        
        This chap was the first head of NZQA (and also head of NZCER at times)
        https://nz.linkedin.com/in/david-hood-b836135b
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:17pm
      - Colinxy
        
        Thanks Maggy. From skim-reading the material and what else I could find, NCEA doesn’t appear to have baked-in Critical Theory components at its inception. This appears to have changed with Ardern-Hipkins involvement, especially with Maturangi Maori being used as a trojan horse for Friere’s Critical Pedagogy.
        
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        November 26, 2024 1:36pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    When I turned up for secondary teaching in the 1990s (after working as a scientist and scientific editor) I kept encountering “constructivism”… and we were meant to explore the concepts children/pupils already had in their heads about a topic before we introduced new material.
    
    Seems the grand idea was that children “construct” their own framework of knowledge based on their prior knowledge.
    
    It meant, of course, that a lot of class-time was wasted as kids contributed their (usually false) ideas/speculations about a new topic.
    
    (i.e. — Let’s explore what we mean by ENERGY)… you can be damn sure that no-one in Year 9C science is going to shout out “the ability to do work”.)…..
    
    I never came across Friere, Critical Theory etc until I started reading Kiwiblog (long after I left teaching).
    
    However, One of my Science Tutors at Training College was Rose Hipkins.. (I liked her.)_
    She left for the NZCER soon after…and became very influential in pushing Critical theory into the science curriculum. and was very influenced by Latour.
    
    https://commonroomnz.com/rose-hipkins-and-the-refreshed-science-curriculum/
    
    My experience of coming into Science Teaching after having worked as PhD researcher, and a consultant ecologist , is that the science tutors at Training college were disconnected from everyday Science practitioners…(let alone builders, engineers, nurses, cooks etc)…and were more interested in the philosophy and sociology of science.
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:59am
    - Colinxy
      
      Oh great “Constructivism”. That’s very post-modern and more mystic crap ~ basically nothing exists before perception.
      
      While it is feasible for Constructivism not to be Critical Theory, the two are inevitably intwined. Of course, Woke is Critical Constructivism, though I believe it should more formally be called Critical Constructivist Standpoint Epistemology.
      
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      November 26, 2024 11:28am
- Dave
  
  NCEA is just one more example of NZ educators’ credulous and naive search for a magic bullet which would end failure, their reluctance to sceptically assess programmes with empirical evidence and then acknowledge, ‘Oh no, fooled again!’
  
  As a former teacher (31 years in NZ, 10 overseas) I’m with BY @ 8.24. We should stop thinking how special we are and stop trying to reinvent the wheel – instead start using what can be shown to work overseas in fact rather than in (critical) theory.
  
  Edit: this was intended as a reply to MW’s 8.07 comment.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:31am
  - Fedup oldie
    
    I was a secondary school principal when NCEA was about to be introduced. I attended a meeting with other school principals in Auckland where we were guaranteed that at least 50% of all assessments in each subject would be by external assessment, ie examinations.
    Many were skeptical but had no option but to accept the situation.
    Over the years the assessment process has been watered down to where students can “pass” and avoid any external examinations.
    
    Hence the move by many schools to move to international qualifications.
    I am not surprised to read ERO’s recommendations
    
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    November 26, 2024 1:22pm
Simon

Just vote / support ACT. National well on the way to becoming Pre-Trump republican party or even much worse the UK Conservative party. Its over.
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November 26, 2024 8:10am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You can stick act where the sun don’t shine
  
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  November 26, 2024 8:29am
  - sirknz
    
    Dunedin in winter is still a Labour town.
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:38am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Well Taieri only went Labour this time by a 1000 votes, last time by 13000, if Act and NZF stood aside Nats e we oils have romped
      
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      November 26, 2024 9:40am
      - gravedodger
        
        And Luxon would do exactly What, manage the NZLP policies better?
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:41am
      - geoff3012
        
        There was ZERO campaigning in the city portion of the electorate…..no signs or canvassing…..MIA….didn’t try very hard…at all.
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:44am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Gravedigger, Luxon would do his normal act – sit on the fence.
        
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        November 26, 2024 11:08am
  - Grunter
    
    G – you’ve never explained why you are so anti-ACT (maybe Ive missed it?). Is it their free-market policies? Their freedom of choice policies? Or do you just dislike Seymour’s quirky/annoying personality?
    
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    November 26, 2024 8:59am
    - thirteenstars
      
      It’s a tenet of faith amongst Nat stalwarts that every vote ACT gets is a vote stolen from National. It’s pathological with many of them.
      
      ACT Derangement Syndrome.
      
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      November 26, 2024 9:46am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        It’s not ADS that is utter bullshit, I have stated clearly to others asking why my point, stop with the utter rubbish
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:10pm
      - carlsbad apple
        
        I would say ACT picked up a whole lot of votes from ex-Labour voters who didn’t want to see Te Pati Maori in government.
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:33pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I am not anti Act this is the problem, I have given my party vote to act before. The problem is fools demanding we vote Act, I am do dick of people not realising the election is won in the centre, centre voters or voters that can go either way will never vote act. And as for his ridiculous comment that Nats are like Trump is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, if anyone is close yo Trump it is Seymour.
      
      I hope this makes you understand my point of view, as I said I don’t dislike Act, it’s arrogant people telling me who to vote for.
      
      The alternative, is Labour, Greens and TPM all in cabinet
      
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      November 26, 2024 9:50am
      - RoboRob
        
        Voting National OR Act works equally well to prevent a left wing block.
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:15am
      - john1234
        
        As long as the party achieves 5% or an electorate MP then taking a vote from NAT to ACT isn’t a problem for a centre right voter. It is simply a small nudge to the right. It doesn’t benefit the LAB/GRN/TPM axis of evil.
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:17am
      - Don Beckett
        
        What does’ ” I am do dick of people” mean ? 😆
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:32am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        “…centre voters or voters that can go either way will never vote act.”
        
        I voted 90% Labour since Kirk – & I voted 2 ticks ACT in 2023. So did some of my older long Labour voting friends
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:49am
      - OlderChas
        
        Apologies for my “Report” on Don Becket. Mods please ignore – fat fingers missed “Reply”!
        Intended to say (tongue in cheek) – Well the s is right next to the d – but missing d two words in a row? lol
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:59am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I know that , older chas. I just wanted to point out how the failure to edit his comments makes what he has to say lose credibility, or just seem stupid.
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:15pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Johnny1234
        
        I understand all that, the I understand the election is won in the centre, the centre will not vote for more to the right, say it as much as you like, but we seen it last election Act support got from 18% at one stage to 7% on the night, letting NZF instead, as I said, the centre will never allow a harder right vote.
        
        And my point about sticking the act party is because arrogant act supporters are always trying to tell me to vote Act, I make my mind up about that as an ex act party voter
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:18pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Steve Otto
        
        No they will not, last election seen Act polling at 18%, Seymour opened his mouth about crazily sitting on the cross benches then he dropped the party support to 7%, letting Peters in that most never wanted to see again, really good intelligent well thought out plan that one. The poll last week which led right up to the hikoi suggests Nats are higher than election night just with Act down 1% if you think for one minute the TPB will make a scrap of difference then you are sadly wrong
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:24pm
  - rouppe
    
    Any specific reasons for that view?
    
    For example, I refused to vote NZ first last election because it was Winston that gave us Jacinda, and there was a candidate that thought the COVID vaccine made you emit 5G signals.
    
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    November 26, 2024 9:07am
    - peterwn
      
      By refusing to vote, you effectively give half a vote to the party you least want in power. So vote for the party which you think is the least of the evils. For example if you hate Labour but want to teach National a lesson then vote ACT.
      
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      November 26, 2024 10:39am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        2026 National will get a large surprise from Act.
        
        9 3
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        November 26, 2024 11:16am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        The teaching Nats a lesson bullshit back fires all the time. Can yo imagine Peters dirty tactics if Nats were weakened?
        
        0 6
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        November 26, 2024 12:19pm
      - rouppe
        
        I didn’t say I refused to vote, I said I refused to vote NZ first
        
        3 0
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        November 26, 2024 4:17pm
  - Yabster
    
    dumb comment of the day? National need a strong ACT as it has bugger all coalition partners- esp when Winnie pulls stumps.
    
    By all means stand up for National but don’t be politically naive.
    
    Voted National all my life except last election party voted ACT and voted for the National candidate. National in my opinion are too soft on many issues- so I voted ACT to give them more backbone!
    
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    November 26, 2024 9:15am
    - RoboRob
      
      Exactly the same story. I am glad I voted Act becuase this iteration of National seems to lack any kind of back bone. I will be voting Act next election at this rate too.
      
      I voted National for my local MP but I am considering voting Labour next time. I dont give a F who they put up, if you are not going to represent your local electorate I will punish you.
      
      14 0
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      November 26, 2024 9:31am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        You said it all ffs, vote Labour next time, how utterly delusional, this crap of Nats keeping all Labs policies is bullshit, they have dumped virtually every Labour policy introduced last term
        
        1 5
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        November 26, 2024 12:29pm
      - pdm
        
        Why not the ACT candidate for the electorate vote?
        
        2 0
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        November 26, 2024 7:39pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Not a dumb comment, I understand the election is won in the centre, I am so sick of people dictating my vote, I don’t do it to them, as I said above I use to give my party vote to Act which was a waste of time, and centre NZers will never vote Act. I am entitled to my opinion, I am just do sick of the arrogance of the new act voter, where were they when I was wasting my party vote?
      
      2 9
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      November 26, 2024 9:53am
    - leoj
      
      Luxon’s stance on the Treaty Principles bill will come back to bite him in the arse.
      
      Two thirds of voters are in favour of Seymour’s bill.
      
      All we want is a referendum but maori activist Luxon is proving that he is out of touch, not to mention gutless.
      
      14 2
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      November 26, 2024 10:45am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Utter rubbish, everyone was well aware of Nats policy and NZFs policy on the treaty principles bill since the election, last weeks poll showed absolutely no one has swapped
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:35pm
      - Colville
        
        Two thirds of voters are in favour of Seymour’s bill.
        
        Bullshit.
        
        Not even two thirds of National voters are in favour.
        
        2 6
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        November 26, 2024 1:02pm
    - Paulus
      
      I expect to do that, vote current National MP, whom I like, and Party vote ACT
      
      8 0
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      November 26, 2024 11:11am
  - pdm
    
    Is that because they have the motivation and commitment to get things done and a monopoly on good legislation G?
    
    Jealousy?
    
    24 0
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    November 26, 2024 9:17am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No, it’s simply because the election is won in the centre, not on the right
      
      1 8
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      November 26, 2024 9:54am
      - leoj
        
        Stand in the middle of the road: Get run over.
        
        The Nats deserve the tag namby-pamby.
        
        6 1
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        November 26, 2024 12:25pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Jealousy? Are you for bloody real?
      
      0 3
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      November 26, 2024 12:36pm
  - David Garrett
    
    G: Perhaps you could explain your reasons for that harsh statement?
    
    20 0
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    November 26, 2024 9:18am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Simply because I am sick of people telling me who I should vote for. I use to give my party vote to Act, it turned out to be a waste, yes I did party vote Act when you went in on the list.
      
      I hope this helps you understand my point of view, I d as m over arrogance of people dictating what I should think.
      
      0 6
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      November 26, 2024 9:56am
      - Quail
        
        Most of the above shows MMP in all its glory.
        The end result , as has happened elsewhere, people just won’t bother to vote.
        A Bureaucratic delight
        
        5 0
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        November 26, 2024 10:59am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “I hope this helps you understand my point of view..”
        
        No, I am none the wiser.
        
        I don’t see anyone “telling you how to vote”.
        
        I support ACT because their policies match my views by an overwhelming margin.
        
        I cannot support ACT because their policies on important issues like climate change, education the Treaty, and fiscal policy are not much different to those of Labour. Yes they are less wasteful, much less wasteful.
        
        However being “better than the Ardern government” is hardly an achievement. If you look at the big policy areas I just cited, and several others, National policies merely halt or slow the decline of the nation. It is not enough to stop New Zealand ending up like a cross betwen Argentina, Fiji and Zimbabwe. That might take another 30 years, but it will happen without radical reform now.
        
        10 1
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        November 26, 2024 11:23am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Benedict Yu
        
        My point is I refuse to be dictated by anyone who I vote for, and definitely not why.
        
        As I said the election is won in the centre, Act will never straddle the centre. If you can’t understand that then that’s your problem, it’s rather simple I would have thought
        
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        November 26, 2024 12:39pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Just a small point. G.
        
        If you are an adult, you have the ability to IGNORE things you are not interested in or supporting.
        
        Ergo, no need to rant about being dictated to (hint, you are not being dictated to).
        
        You are seemingly over reacting to some fools using the words “”Vote”” ….. in a blog??!!!!
        
        9 0
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        November 26, 2024 1:50pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        As per usual you refuse to address any part of my comment. Who is “dictating” anything to you?
        
        6 1
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        November 26, 2024 2:05pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Sorry G. But you always seem to be blind to what the Nats are doing – or in fact NOT doing. You seem to have blinkers on, regularly.
        
        1 0
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        November 26, 2024 6:48pm
- peterwn
  
  So all the Hikoi has done is to give David Seymour a high and make him look even better. Perhaps the Treaty can be ‘interpreted’ to allow David to be kicked out of his hapū.
  
  31 1
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  November 26, 2024 8:30am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Where did all the we rent a mob go?
    
    18 2
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    November 26, 2024 8:32am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Home?
      
      5 1
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      November 26, 2024 11:24am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Dont be surprised if the Maori Party dig up their dead to make submissions against the Treaty Principles Bill.
    
    21 1
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    November 26, 2024 8:58am
    - pdm
      
      Ah – the fellow at Te Puna as per the following.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360492909/no-winners-3-year-dispute-between-hapu-and-landowners
      
      10 0
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      November 26, 2024 9:20am
      - Dave
        
        Burial places are special to many cultures and superstition is rife but:
        
        “He told the court that Pirirākau viewed Tahataharoa as a living tupuna (ancestor) that was essential to the mauri (life force) of the hapū, and without knowing where paramount chief Tutereinga was buried, all of the area was wāhi tapu (sacred).” (My emphasis.)
        
        9 0
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        November 26, 2024 9:47am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I fully expect them to try and vote for the dead
      
      5 2
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      November 26, 2024 10:43am
    - OlderChas
      
      Oh yeah Lastman- that’s right! The dead Maori have a vote now too! So why not a submission as well? //
      
      7 1
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      November 26, 2024 11:02am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Seems the NZ Supreme Court have given dead people “”rights””
        
        https://www.russellmcveagh.com/insights-news/whakamaramatanga-series-supreme-court-considers-place-of-tikanga-in-the-law-judgment-on-continuation-of-ellis-appeal/
        
        5 0
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        November 26, 2024 1:53pm
      - pdm
        
        On that basis how many votes do rivers, lake beds and mountains get?
        
        1 0
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        November 26, 2024 7:44pm
    - Paulus
      
      All Maori is hearsay as there is no proof of any old time religeous facts, just shouting, violence in the
      haka, and whatever, singing and dancing.
      But remember Bullshit baffles Brains, as we will see.
      
      7 3
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      November 26, 2024 11:15am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Oh Maori had a religion alright. It is a pagan religion, much like all stone age cultures, who saw the sun as a god – Ra – and various other gods that controlled various aspects of nature. Also ancestor worship, which we see emerging more & more very recently.
        
        9 2
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        November 26, 2024 12:21pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Paulus, this is racist BS.
        All Maori??????
        
        4 1
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        November 26, 2024 1:54pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    The hikoi, hakas and the media sponsored tub thumping by Tamihere’s Funding Fodder has done nothing for their cause, whatever it is.
    
    All it has done is expose how coddled and entitled they actually are.
    
    16 2
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    November 26, 2024 10:21am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Agreed, and Hipkins has joined himself to the wagons, talk about not reading the room
      
      10 2
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      November 26, 2024 10:44am
      - hookerphil
        
        In the same room as Scott Robertson.
        
        5 0
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        November 26, 2024 12:45pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The cause is to get on te news, and that is all we heard all week.
      
      9 2
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      November 26, 2024 11:28am
Fisiani2

On Friday 29th and Saturday 30th November Bats Theatre Wellington presents at 6.30pm a one hour play followed by Q and A with 8 older actors playing Just Before We Go. Tickets are just $15
6 6
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November 26, 2024 8:20am
- Flossie
  
  If anyone is into theatre I thoroughly recommend the current production of Nell Gwynn at 16th Avenue in Tauranga. Excellent show!
  
  5 1
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  November 26, 2024 8:39am
  - Bridgenag
    
    The blokes at bowls reckon the ASB theatre in Auckland has gone woke and do not go after decades of subscribing. Peter Pan was so bad…..Captain Hook was a grey headed female. He said the only good thing was the crocodile. Vowed never to go again
    
    13 2
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    November 26, 2024 9:21am
    - Sparrow
      
      Tell the blokes at bowls that traditionally the male lead in pantomimes has always been performed by a female. Tell them not to spill their G&T,s
      
      7 2
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      November 26, 2024 9:35am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Sure but a big black beard and hair would have maintained the image
        
        3 1
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        November 26, 2024 1:13pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Are they renaming it Old Bats Theatre for the event?
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:01am
kowtow

I’m convinced NZME Herald has someone from the Maori Party writing their editorials on any matters Maori .

Today they have a go at the police minister over that march ,because he’s rightly concerned about police neutrality .

They tell us anyone concerned about images of police painting protest banners etc are “ugly racists” .

Concludes by saying essentially that police engaging in political activity at the march are upholding the treaty etc

All the more reason for a referendum . Let the people decide .This has gone too far.And the editorial is simply more evidence of exactly what Seymour says about our constitution being determined and interpreted by Elites .
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November 26, 2024 8:39am
- RoboRob
  
  As I said yesterday with regards to TVNZ and RNZ, these organisations are infected with progressive liberal elites and Maori activists. You will never see a story critical of the Maori side of a dispute in any of the MSM.
  
  I know that Maori are / were great pacifists and really cared for the environment before the evil white colonists arrived with the wheel BUT I am pretty sure they are human and not right about everything.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:37am
  - Paulus
    
    Bet you do not know what a Maori tastes like either !
    
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    November 26, 2024 11:16am
- keepcalmcarryon
  
  Also was it an editorial written by a human or another AI job?
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:45am
Swifty

Lately I’ve seen and read numbers of people on the Left bemoaning ACT’s influence in the current government – that their influence outstrips the 8(?) percent of people who voted for them.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/534800/act-wielding-disproportionate-influence-in-government-seymour

I wonder how many of these people are MMP supporters and how many actually voted for MMP? I’d say most if not all.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Not only was this widely discussed as a potential feature of MMP when we were talking about moving from FPP – it was lauded by MMP proponents as a major reason for bringing MMP in – that minorities of people could have their voice heard and represented in Parliament! Something that FPP denied them.

What I’m increasingly now sure of though is that these proponents only had in mind a gaggle of left-wing minority parties, like far-left, Green or ethnic parties etc coming in under MMP – they didn’t conceive of right-wing parties coming in and thriving – and now that they have to both see and endure it they have realised they don’t like it one bit!

Well, suck it up luvvies. You wanted it and now you’ve got it. Good and hard.
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November 26, 2024 8:45am
- Gussy Fink-Nottle
  
  Those bemoaning ACT’s apparently outsized influence will be heartened to know that their most contentious policy – The Principles of the Treaty Waitangi Bill – is subject to a referendum.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:57am
- Paulus
  
  I remember in fact that it was the then Greens who heavily persuaded the media to back MMP.
  
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  November 26, 2024 11:18am
  - Swifty
    
    Exactly and now they’re among the biggest whingers and whiners.
    
    Them and more than a few TPM supporters.
    
    Heh.
    
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    November 26, 2024 11:57am
- slijmbal
  
  @Swifty – you mean the 3% who voted for the People’s Front of Judea don’t have excessive influence?
  
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  November 26, 2024 12:09pm
Grunter

Listening to Nicola Willis last night on Heather du Plessis-Allan made me gag a bit. I have always thought Willis might be part of the common-sense solution crowd – but nah, she is “one of them”.

She was explaining why our increasing debt and increased Govt spending was so much better than the last lot, some girl maths logic about “we are increasing spending at a slower rate than Labour….”

It just reinforced to me that NZ has few chances remaining to thrive. Big Govt is here to stay.
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November 26, 2024 8:51am
- kevn
  
  Grunter… Indeed.
  https://www.downtoearth.kiwi/post/finance-minister-willis-challenges-downtoearth-kiwi-to-give-her-ideas-about-how-to-break-monopoly
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:52am
peterwn

“A Ponsonby chief executive accused of bashing a pensioner in an alleged road rage incident involving a $430,000 supercar says he is not that wealthy, has finance to pay on his car, and is suffering severe stress at the prospect of being publicly identified.”
Oh diddums. He should have thought of that before he used his fists. The consequences he is going to suffer are no different from what any ordinary person is going to suffer. If he is stressed at the prospect of being identified he should seek appropriate professional assistance. If he is ‘not wealthy’ a good start would be to sell his supercar and buy something more modest. He will also probably claim that the sky will fall unless he is discharged without conviction.
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November 26, 2024 8:57am
- Blog-aholic
  
  He could borrow against his mortgage for an appropriate cultural report……..
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:02am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Picked on a pensioner just because he lost his rag.
  Would he have tried the same with a fit 25 year old?
  Coward. Name him.
  
  28 2
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  November 26, 2024 9:27am
- RoboRob
  
  The guy is scum.
  
  With that out of the way are all the comentators down on this guy becuase he is rich?
  
  Sure he should pay the price for his actions but what price would it be if he was the usual gang member lowlife doing this? Certainly it wouldn’t be selling his Harley to pay a fine and being publicly named would be bonus street cred.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Down on this guy because he is an arsehole who beat up an old man.
    
    9 1
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    November 26, 2024 11:42am
- Bobba Fret
  
  If he is that broke, maybe he shouldn’t be leasing a super car. He could lease a nice brand new Toyota for far less. That would save him some money.
  
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  November 26, 2024 11:42am
Yvette

Then, this month Hauraki Waikato and Te Pāti Māori MP Hana Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke interrupted the first vote on the Treaty Principles Bill in Parliament house by launching into the haka ‘Ka Mate’.

More recently, departing All Black half-back TJ Perenara, reignited fiery debate around ‘haka’ in sport and the role it plays in the political spectrum after leading ‘Ka Mate’ in the teams match against Italy.
As he launched into the haka, Perenara said “Toitū te mana o te whenua, toitū te mana motuhake, toitū te Tiriti o Waitangi,” a statement which affirmed Māori sovereignty and the enduring significance of Te Tiriti o Waitangi.
_____

Some may wish to explain the difference between these two – while others, like the vast audience in Milan, may be blissfully unaware of either.

Abbiamo il nostro problema, il rugby è una via di fuga
we have our problem, rugby is an escape route
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November 26, 2024 9:00am
- pdm
  
  My complaint to the NZRU.
  https://nominister.wordpress.com/2024/11/25/my-complaint-to-the-new-zealand-rugby-union-re-the-haka-and-flag-incidents-on-sunday/
  
  Link to complaints form is here:
  https://www.nzrugby.co.nz/about-nzr/complaints-management-service
  
  Get into it – the more the merrier and the more likely someone at NZRU will take notice.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:37am
  - RoboRob
    
    Not likely. The NZRU is woke as F. Remember they are the ones who wanted female and Maori quotas on the board.
    
    Get woke go broke. Is it a coincidence that rugby in NZ is on a slow and consistent downward trend?
    
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    November 26, 2024 9:44am
  - Burtland
    
    NZRU seems to like apartheid
    – supported it in the 1980s with the Springbok tour and now with Perenara
    
    does Dame Patsy support racism?
    
    14 1
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    November 26, 2024 10:05am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Is she still there? I thought she was stepping down because she didnt get her way on the constitution!
      
      Apparently more diversity on the board has made the NZRFU stronger….. who can tell?
      
      6 0
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      November 26, 2024 1:13pm
  - hookerphil
    
    To NZRFU:
    
    I am appalled at the actions of the All Black team at the beginning and the end of their game against Italy.
    
    It is obvious that being enclosed in a camp atmosphere for a period of time has removed Scott Robertson and his Management team from being able to read the room in regard to the pro Maori movement in New Zealand.
    
    I would trust that the very public reaction of dissatisfaction would give all involved a reminder that the damage done to the All Black brand will be perhaps equal to the marketing epic failure of Budweiser beer. They have not recovered their top of the table market share and I suspect they never will.
    
    By the same token I suspect rugby has lost many followers who will not return but if the NZRFU do not acknowledge this woeful political statement made by the team the whole trust and respect will be lost for many, forever.
    
    Remember in 1967 the NZRFU promoted No Politics In Sport – nothing has changed to that reasoning.
    
    I am a former player, Club Official, Senior Referee for 15 years and lifetime supporter of rugby.
    
    My late Uncle, former NZRFU Councillor for a number of years, said after the advent of professional rugby that it would be the beginning of the end of rugby as we know it. Nothing I have seem in the 30 years since has led me to doubt his words – the removal of the elite group of players further away from public, the loss of crowd support, the loss of club teams and now you have condoned the actions of the current team by your silence.
    
    Funnily enough no response – yet.
    
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    November 26, 2024 12:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How to speed up deportation in the US.

https://babylonbee.com/news/tom-homan-introduces-family-size-immigrant-trebuchet-to-speed-up-deportation-process?
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November 26, 2024 9:03am
In Vino Veritas

Arrogant, ignorant prick. If he can’t hold his temper in a car incident, then he won’t be able to do so in his job. Name him, and perhaps he will get fired.
19 1
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November 26, 2024 9:10am
- kowtow
  
  People who react criminally in driving situations are not fit and proper to be licensed .
  
  Driving is a privelige , not a right.
  
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  November 26, 2024 10:54am
  - peterwn
    
    The cops also booked him for reckless driving, so he will lose his licence for several months anyway.
    
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    November 26, 2024 11:58am
rouppe

Kim Dot Com has had a stroke.

Now we’ll never get rid of him, and he’ll cost the health system bigly.

Our governments couldn’t even do that right.
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November 26, 2024 9:11am
- RoboRob
  
  Yup. The last Labour govt sat on their hands for a couple of years and didnt sign the extradition docs. The current govt did finally sign them earlier this year but our legal system is such that the guy is still here now and probably gets another 3years or so before the process restarts now.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:48am
  - imalwaysright
    
    From memory I think his crime was designing a website that attracted 4% of internet traffic.
    This upset the major providers of the same services, such as Bill Gates etc, as Kim’s service was better, so they used their influence to get the Feds to get rid of him.
    
    8 3
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    November 26, 2024 11:43am
    - RoboRob
      
      I dont care what he did or did not do. An extradition request was put through, it was valid so NZ should send him t the US to face trial.
      
      We proceeded to botch the police raid, botch the court case and then Kim used his money and our system to drag the process out for more then a decade.
      
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      November 26, 2024 1:13pm
    - peterwn
      
      There is far more to it than that. The site indirectly promoted an illegal movie sharing service. See
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fbi-releases-evidence-against-dotcom/5CQUXCUOSX7UVUA5DJZXHZHUWU/
      
      5 0
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      November 26, 2024 1:31pm
    - rouppe
      
      No, it was because he had a hosting website where people were sharing ripped movies, breaching copyright.
      
      He tried to say “but I’m just the host, I don’t know what the customers share” but that didn’t work
      
      4 0
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      November 26, 2024 4:20pm
- Matt Long
  
  If KDC hasn’t private health insurance, I don’t know who will, it might cost a few million a year in premiums but I can’t see him lining up in Public A&E for the use of a standard sized bed.
  
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  November 26, 2024 10:33am
  - geoff3012
    
    Private hospitals don’t do acute….thats for public/A&E….
    
    5 0
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    November 26, 2024 10:54am
  - RoboRob
    
    Emergency services (like a stroke) are all public as is recovery afterwards. I dont believe private insurance allows one to move to a private hospital for recovery from a public procedure. I guess he will have specialists for his recovery although he likely wont want to fully recover as that would allow extradition.
    
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    November 26, 2024 11:03am
    - Paulus
      
      Agreed, my wife six months ago had a stroke, and albeit occurred following a Private Hospital hip opertion, was immediatly taken into the Public Sector and even Helicopted from Tauranga to Auckkland at six in the morning for a four hour plus brain operation.
      Back to Tauranga for 2 months hospital and now convalesing at home with me as care giver (after 60 year marriage).
      All I can say how wonderful every part of the operation for my wife has been.
      Thank goodnes we live where we do, as all the people have all been wonderful despite that fact that after the stroke life will never be the same again.
      Not easy to adjust so we can expct DotCom to be similar – not the best, but wish him well, as he will never be the same again.
      
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      November 26, 2024 11:27am
      - Keith White
        
        All the very best to you and your lady, Paulus, for continuing and successful convalescing.
        
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        November 26, 2024 7:49pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Timing is very suspicious. What chance that this is faked (or exaggerated)?
    
    And why should it impede extradition? US federal prison system has facilities to treat stroke victims.
    
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    November 26, 2024 6:14pm
    - Keith White
      
      Very, very difficult to fake asymmetrical paralysis after a stroke – if that is the presentation (which is the commonest).
      
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      November 26, 2024 7:46pm
- kowtow
  
  Stroke of genius. To evade deportation.
  
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  November 26, 2024 10:55am
Burtland

Looming crisis in gas industry – no gas – who would have thought halting exploration had consequences – thanks Megan thanks Jacinda

Vector wants the government to use regulatory tools or some other method to help it recoup its pipeline investments and afford to maintain gas services, even if there’s an exodus of users.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/environment/534807/gas-supply-shrinkage-sparks-fears-of-suburban-shortages
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November 26, 2024 9:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Should be in jail but she ran away. No penalty whatsoever for what she did to NZ.
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:31am
  - kowtow
    
    She had no gas left in the tank , and left us without any too.
    
    Fossil fuels matter.
    
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    November 26, 2024 10:56am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Excellent!
      
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      November 26, 2024 3:10pm
Bridgenag

What Kennedy Must Do to Defeat Regulatory Capture
By: Bretigne Shaffer

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/what-kennedy-must-do-to-defeat-regulatory?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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November 26, 2024 9:13am
Bridgenag

The blokes at bowls reckon the ASB theatre inn Auckland has gone woke and do not go after decades of subscribing. Peter Pan was so bad…..Captain Hook was a grey headed female. He said the only good thing was the crocodile. Vowed never to go again
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November 26, 2024 9:20am
- Bridgenag
  
  sorry somehow got here twice Was in reply to F and F
  
  Maybe delete Mods
  
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  November 26, 2024 9:28am
trout

HDPA at 1zb pointed out to the ‘up – himself’ Chris Finlayson that his much vaunted Tuhoe settlement was more of a takeover by Tuhoe than co-management of Te Urewera. She reminded him of the (unlawful) demolition of huts and general lack of (paid for) maintenance. Finlayson’s response was to tell us the DOC had a member on the Board. A good example of how DOC has become subservient to iwi wishes. In other parts of the North Island access once promised (and legalized by way of easements) is now being denied; locked gates, vandalism, etc. DOC just lie down and watch it happen. If foreshore is vested in Maori public access will be maintained – yeah right!
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November 26, 2024 9:44am
- kowtow
  
  Hey National , thanks for nothing.
  
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  November 26, 2024 10:58am
kevn

I don’t want the Mods deleted.
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November 26, 2024 9:54am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

What are “different rights?” Then she says “separate rights”
I read that as racist rights.
Video, interview with Jack Tame. Packer is getting almost as good as Ardern by deflecting answers with word salad.
Next it will be “I grew up in a middle class………….”

https://centrist.nz/debbie-ngarewa-packer-admits-maori-have-different-rights/?
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November 26, 2024 10:02am
- Yabster
  
  Jack Tame being lame again- his interview style changes when he interviews the left- way more confrontation with the right- part of TVNZ’s political biases.
  
  Packer is nuts- but we shouldn’t under estimate her- they have an agenda and are executing it- sign up the plebs on the Maori roll and get more seats and more influence.
  
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  November 26, 2024 10:32am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember the media will give Packer and her mob all the publicity support they can, to ensure that the media are funded in support of their agendae.
    
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    November 26, 2024 11:30am
  - MCōs
    
    The number of Māori seats is not calculated from the size of the Māori roll.
    It’s a factor of the number of all eligible Māori voters divided by 1/16 of all the South Island eligible voters.
    As it happens about half of eligible Māori voters choose to be on the Māori roll.
    This means that each Māori seat has about half the voters of each of the ordinary seats.
    Currently the Māori Party has 6/7 of the Māori seats. If Act, for example, are unhappy about that they should encourage their Māori supporters to switch to the Māori roll and vote for someone else i.e. stop moaning, organize and use the system to their advantage
    
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    November 26, 2024 11:57am
    - Conservatarian
      
      Of the electorate votes (EV) cast in 2023, 182k were cast in the Maori electorates (6.9% of the total EV of 2.84m) and TMP received 95k of those votes (52.2%). TMP beat Labour 52-37 in the EV in Maori seats.
      
      The TMP candidate received between 39-76% of the votes in each Maori electorate.
      
      It lost Ikaroa-Rawhiti to Labour by 54-43, and narrowly won Tamaki-Makarau by 40.1-39.9 (Greens took 11.6%) and Te Tai Tokerau by 38.8 to 36.9 (Greens took 15.6%). The Greens contested just those two maori seats, so effectively TMP beat Labour in two seats despite having the far left vote cannibalised by the Greens.
      
      National contested 2 of the 7 seats (getting about 5% of the EV in each) and neither Act nor NZF contested a maori seat.
      
      https://archive.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2023/statistics/candidate-votes-and-turnout-by-electorate.html
      
      https://archive.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2023/statistics/percentage-candidate-votes-for-registered-parties.html
      
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      November 26, 2024 2:18pm
    - Paulus
      
      Maori seat system too complicated for them to understand !
      
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      November 26, 2024 2:52pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      You continue to be quite wrong about this, MCōs. Yabster is correct. The more people registered on the Māori roll, the greater the Māori electoral population and potentially, the greater the number of Māori electoral districts.
      
      Both the Māori electoral population (MEP) and the General electoral population (GEP) are defined in section 3 of the Electoral Act 1993, here, https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0087/latest/DLM307525.html.
      
      “General electoral population” means total ordinarily resident population as shown in the last periodical census of population and dwellings with the exception of [my bold] the Maori electoral population
      
      Put simply, the “Māori electoral population” means—
      
      a figure representing both the persons registered as electors of the Māori electoral districts and a proportion of Māori persons who are not registered as electors of any electoral district and a proportion of Māori persons under the age of 18 years,—
      
      which figure must be fixed by ascertaining a proportion determined by dividing the total number of persons, on counting day, registered as electors of Māori electoral districts by the total number of Māori persons, on counting day, registered as electors of Māori electoral districts or [my bold] General electoral districts, and—
      
      by applying the proportion [so] ascertained to the total number of ordinarily resident Māori persons on census day.
      
      For example, taking the latest figures (see https://www.stats.govt.nz/methods/the-mathematics-of-electorate-allocation-in-new-zealand-based-on-the-outcome-of-the-2023-census-and-maori-electoral-option/),—
      
      the “Māori descent usually resident population count (d)” is 1,009,590.
      
      The number of “Māori on [the] Māori electoral roll (m)” is 303,561.
      
      The number of “Māori on [the] general electoral roll (g)” is 285,164.
      
      The “Percent of Māori choosing [the] Māori electoral roll (Māori electoral ratio, r)” is 51.56%, i.e., r = m/(m  g), which is 303,561/(303,561  285,164) = 303,561/588,725 = 51.56% — Stats NZ round that to 51.6%).
      
      Consequently, the newly calculated MEP is r × d = 51.6% × 1,009,590 = 520,948. (I can’t explain why Stats NZ get 520,969.) Therefore, it can be seen that the more people registered on the Māori roll (m), the greater the Māori electoral ratio, meaning the greater the MEP.
      
      As we all know, the number of Māori electoral districts and North Island General electoral districts is based on the South Island General electoral quota, which is 70,037, i.e., 1,120,593 / 16 = 70,037. (See sections 35 and 45, respectively, of the Electoral Act 1993.)
      
      Therefore, the number of Māori electoral districts is 520,969 / 70,037 = 7.43 = 7 — no change from 2018. The number of North Island General electoral districts is 3,353,982 / 70,037 = 47.89 = 48. Consequently, for the 2026 election, there will be 71 electoral districts, down from the current 72.
      
      Now, what if all Māori were registered on the Māori roll, meaning the Māori electoral ratio, r, was 100%, rather than 51.6%? That means the SI GEP would be the usually resident population of 1,185,690 less the SI Māori descent population of 160,588 = 1,025,102. That figure, divided by 16, gives a SI General electoral quota of 64,069.
      
      The NI GEP would be the usually resident population of 3,808,323 less the NI Māori descent population of 848,570 = 2,959,753. Consequently, the MEP would be 160,588 (SI) plus 848,570 (NI) = 1,009,158.
      
      Given that the newly calculated NI MEP is 454,047, then 394,523 people (848,570 less 454,047 = 394,523) would be transferred from the current 49 NI General electoral districts to the current seven Māori electoral districts. The three populations, being SI 1,025,102  NI 2,959,753  Māori 1,009,158, sum to 4,994,093.
      
      The NI GEP of 2,959,753 / 64,069 = 46.19 = 46. The MEP of 1,009,158 / 64,069 = 15.75 = 16, for a total of 78 electoral districts.
      
      If all Māori were to transfer to the Māori roll, the number of South Island General electoral districts would need to be reviewed.
      
      As Stats NZ state in the explanatory paper linked to, above, “The proportion of enrolled Māori descent electors who choose the Māori electoral roll is of critical importance in all these calculations.”
      
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      November 26, 2024 3:31pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        The squares are supposed to be plus (+) signs.
        
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        November 26, 2024 3:44pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “All Maori” Define who is Maori and who has NO Maori.
        We can wait Steve.
        
        2 1
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        November 26, 2024 5:56pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Steve Otto(North Shore) @ 5:56PM
        
        That’s pretty boring, Steve, but, just for fun, I’ll bite.
        
        For electoral purposes, ‘Maori’ is defined in section 3 of the Electoral Act 1993 (see my comment, above) as “a person of the Maori race of New Zealand; and includes any descendant of such a person”.
        
        Don’t like it? Not my problem.
        
        I made reference to “all Māori” because Hana-Rāwhiti Maipi-Clarke told the crowd in front of parliament after the hikoi that if all Māori registered on the Māori roll, there would be 20 automatic Māori seats. A slight exaggeration, as I pointed out at General Debate on Saturday, and showed with calculations today.
        
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        November 26, 2024 6:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If the person Tame interviews is not left then Tame interviews himself. Nobody else gets a word in.
    
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    November 26, 2024 3:19pm
Swifty

DPF – my sincere condolences for the news today.

I know how far you guys go back.

Best wishes.
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November 26, 2024 10:21am
- alex Masterley
  
  Agree.
  My sympathies as well.
  Too young.
  
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  November 26, 2024 10:57am
MCōs

Nikki Kaye has died of breast cancer
That’s really sad. She was only 44yo
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November 26, 2024 10:56am
- Paulus
  
  Very sad, as I enjoyed what she stood for in Politics.
  
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  November 26, 2024 11:31am
Jack5

Artificial intelligence (AI) computer centres seem an ideal industry for the far south of NZ. They are greedy, very greedy, for electricity, and for water.

The Wall Street Journal, explaining the demand is created by the need to power processing chips and cool the heat they emit, says data centres are projected to consume between 11 and 2 per cent of total United States electricity in 2030, mainly for AI.

Meanwhile researchers estimate that by 2027 water used by world data centres could be equivalent to half the total amount of water demand in the UK.

Google’s data centres last year used more than 6 billion gallons of water.
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November 26, 2024 11:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  But Jack, did that water just disappear? Gone forever?
  Here it is going to rain tomorrow.
  
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  November 26, 2024 6:00pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN2Ae0iroRI
Why Islam Won’t Survive the 21st Century: A Quiet Collapse.
In this video, I explore how the internet is transforming Islam in ways that mirror the historical impact of the printing press on Christianity. As an ex-Muslim, I share my personal journey of questioning religious dogma and how platforms like Reddit, YouTube, and TikTok have become powerful tools for fostering critical discussions about Islam. From its rigid enforcement of beliefs to its colonial and moral contradictions, Islam is now facing unprecedented scrutiny. [Could take a while.]
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November 26, 2024 11:42am
- Don Beckett
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud3rRnVaGXc
  
  Iranians converting to Christianity.
  
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  November 26, 2024 3:13pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDx2YsTBEPo
The DOGE Project Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep968.
Musk and Ramaswamy have a big task to achieve if they want to shrink the Federal Government. There will be resistance. Some agencies that were never authorized by Congress might be vulnerable. [I hope the flamethrower, shredder, and woood chipper are in full working order.]
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November 26, 2024 11:42am
imalwaysright

Jack,

The 6 billion gallons isn’t much. Assuming US gallons, that’s less than 24 billion litres, which equates to the volume of a cube of sides less than 300m length.

Then, considering that the only effect of the use of the water was to temporarily increase its temperature, this seems to be a non issue.
In fact, if there were more water being used, it may become viable to harvest the heat from it.
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November 26, 2024 12:10pm
- Colville
  
  There is around a billion cubic km of water in the world IIRC. So yes that is SFA water really. a 1/100th of a billionth?
  
  If anyone can crack how to focus and harvest low grade heat efficiently …it will be a world changer.
  
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  November 26, 2024 1:19pm
Jack5

Perhaps AI-data centre water consumption is just another Greenies’ worry, then IAR (12.10 post).

AI potential is getting much attention.

It took half a century from the US Defence Department’s ARPA network pioneering in 1969 to reach the Internet of today. Was there as much popular talk in the 1970s about what was coming as there is now about artificial intelligence?

In the days of steam and new iron-making techniques, was there even speculation about the coming vast expansion of heavy industry and transport?

Is AI being oversold to us?
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November 26, 2024 1:05pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Jack
  Apparently AI evolution is slowing.
  Mainly because its only talent is deduction and it can’t deduce anything if the relevant facts don’t exist.
  They thought it would make physicists obsolete, but now it is being realised that the physicists research is the lifeblood of AI.
  
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  November 26, 2024 5:06pm
Jack5

Thomas Tekanapu Rawakata Perenara, commonly known as TJ Perenara, gets a broadside for the haka debacle.

From Sean Plunket, On The Platform, in a short video.

A bonus: Laurie Mains on the Italian game, and praise for Sam Cane, whose last big game was overshadowed by the Perenara debacle.

Mains on the haka protest: “A measure of P.J. Perenara, and not of the All Blacks team.”

https://youtu.be/gfTeA6FAhqU?si=Pm5Ceh2evwY_UcWp
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November 26, 2024 1:26pm
Swifty

Margaret Thatcher Off Camera – Pre-Interview Footage Reveals Another Side of the Iron Lady (1984)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9eoeR5bS91M

My dream girl. 😃
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November 26, 2024 2:11pm
gorse

Hipkins and capital gains tax. Why is it because other countries have it we must too? That is a feeble argument. Other countries report that it doesn’t generate much revenue. It will be a boon for accountants.

All Labour understand is how to tax more. Pathetic people.
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November 26, 2024 2:12pm
- marcw
  
  It seems to have kept real estate prices for first home buyers down in major Australian cities. //s
  
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  November 26, 2024 3:31pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  It’s also worth noting re Business Goodwill that just about every other country allows for amortisation for the buyers (so no net tax gain for the Government). I don’t think they’re being dishonest. I think they’re just that out of their depth.
  
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  November 26, 2024 3:51pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Capital gains are income. Money in the bank and all that. Most forms of income are taxed and have been so forever ….
  
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  November 26, 2024 4:43pm
  - Conservatarian
    
    No. In taxation “capital” and “income” are literally opposite things.
    
    4 1
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    November 26, 2024 5:12pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      In taxation “capital” and “income” are literally opposite things.
      
      Money in the bank. A dollar is a dollar…..
      
      3 3
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      November 26, 2024 5:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Lucky we have a good Taxation system that PAYE, GST and other sundry Taxes collect is enough and we don’t need a CGT
        Aren’t we fortunate.
        Or are you saying that EVERY dollar we spend is necessary and nothing could be cut?
        Feel free to make that argument
        We’ll wait.
        
        3 2
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        November 26, 2024 6:45pm
      - Jack5
        
        For the two hundred and tenth time on Kiwiblog: New Zealand already has capital gains tax, even though it’s mild.
        
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        November 26, 2024 9:03pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Still waiting for an answer Ian
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:08pm
  - AitchW
    
    In that case why are Lotto and TAB wins not taxed?
    
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    November 26, 2024 5:33pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      I wouldn’t care if they were taxed. But they don’t amount to a hill of beans in the total income scheme of things …. still income ….
      
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      November 26, 2024 5:53pm
    - Quail
      
      Capital gains must be adjusted for inflation.
      Otherwise it is just an incentive for Governments to steal more tax from the populace.
      Milton Friedman postulated inflation is a tax and it is.
      So in fact a GGT can double taxpayers liability.
      
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      November 26, 2024 6:08pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Capital gains must be adjusted for inflation.
        
        PAYE and GST should be adjusted for inflation then as well I spose?
        
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        November 26, 2024 8:18pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Most Capital Gains are a function of inflation not of actual genuine increase of value due to say, an increased PE ration
        True or false
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:04pm
  - Taieri
    
    Capital gains are income
    ———
    
    Only when they are realised.
    
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    November 26, 2024 5:57pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Of course. Too hard to do it any other way. It’s how the rest of the OECD do it.
      
      Now give me “tax on on inflation” line and explain why we don’t figure inflation into PAYE or GST …..
      
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      November 26, 2024 6:06pm
  - Graeme Hall
    
    Perhaps you mean realised capital gains should be taxed?
    
    Capital gains taxes have a flip-side and usually mean capital losses will generate tax refunds on losses at the most inconvenient time for the Government – during a recession.
    
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    November 26, 2024 5:58pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Sure. Realised capital losses ring fenced deductible against realised capital gains would work fine.
      
      I think that’s the way most OECD countries do it but I don’t really care. Convenience for the gummint not an issue …. I’m a bit surprised that you would care.
      
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      November 26, 2024 6:13pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Of course convenience for the Govt is an issue
        If it isn’t you just end up with admin costs soaking up all the tax taken
        Say, I’m starting to think that your zealotry over CGT is not really about Tax but just punishing people who have done well…
        
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        November 26, 2024 7:13pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        your zealotry over CGT is not really about Tax but just punishing people who have done well…
        
        Nope – just taxing income …. I guess any tax is “punishing people” …
        
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        November 26, 2024 7:53pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Its not income earned or usually genuinely created.
        Tax it and people lose pace against inflation
        Just look at how inheritance taxes will set farmers BACK in the UK
        And you push it again and again and again and again
        Like I said, zealotry
        Smacks of envy to me
        Its also very boring
        
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        November 26, 2024 10:08pm
  - Eastlander
    
    You make this same circular argument every time the subject comes up, scorn is rightly poured upon it, and a month later we rinse and repeat.
    
    Get new material.
    
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    November 26, 2024 7:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Don’t work, then you pay ho Net Tax.
  
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  November 26, 2024 6:04pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    You are a net taxpayer Steve?
    
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    November 26, 2024 7:55pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No, I am retired on Super. I was a Net Taxpayer, meaning I manufactured a product.
      
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      November 27, 2024 10:00am
Philip Hart

Willie Jackson is going to debate David Seymour on the Treaty Principles Bill.

Surely that’s taking a knife (a very blunt one at that) to a gunfight. Or perhaps a mere….
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November 26, 2024 2:38pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  That is a debate I won’t want to miss.
  
  I’m guessing that David Seymour will humiliate Willie Jackson.
  
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  November 26, 2024 3:59pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Has David Seymour been invited to Debate at the Oxford Union?
  
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  November 26, 2024 4:55pm
- AitchW
  
  Rational, reasoned, and articulate argument against racist, illogical, and inarticulate slogans. What a waste of time.
  How long till Jackson loses his cool and starts shouting ad hominem and offensive lies?
  
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  November 26, 2024 5:36pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 3.25pm, null bikes.

A sunny, warm, still afternoon in the Capital, ideal for cycling.
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November 26, 2024 3:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Email today from Don Brash – Hobson’s Pledge.
“Don’t listen to the Prime Minister. He may say that he has made his mind up and the Treaty Principles Bill will be voted down after select committee, but it isn’t over until it’s over.”
“It is crucially important that as many New Zealanders as possible share their thoughts on the Bill with the select committee via a submission.”
“The odds of changing the Prime Minister’s mind may be slim, but a show of strength from a large number of New Zealanders will send a very strong message, which then can be built on for the next election or possibly even for a Citizens Initiated Referendum.”

As promised, we have created a Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill submission tool. We want to make it as easy as possible for you to get your thoughts on the record. Our tool allows you to build a submission by choosing the key points that you agree with and then adding your own if you wish.

Here is the link. Make your choices with the submission builder.
This is the best I have seen so far. Feel free to make your own submission without this tool.
https://www.treatyprinciplessubmission.nz/
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November 26, 2024 3:26pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Submitted.
  
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  November 26, 2024 4:39pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Ditto!
    
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    November 26, 2024 7:45pm
- Ian Boag
  
  He may say that he has made his mind up and the Treaty Principles Bill will be voted down after select committee, but it isn’t over until it’s over.
  
  He may say that’s what Seymour agreed to in the coalition negotiations. He would be right.
  
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  November 26, 2024 8:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So now Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset (spy)?
Top Democrat says so.

https://patriotpulse.net/tulsi-gabbard-got-hit-with-one-awful-hoax-from-a-democrat-to-sink-her-nomination/?
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November 26, 2024 3:32pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360499538/what-prat-tractor-drives-flooded-uk-street-amid-gasps-outrage
Sounds like something Jeremy Clarkson would do….
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November 26, 2024 4:40pm

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