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November 14, 2024 4:54pm by David Farrar

What Labour voters think of Willie

On my Patreon, I reveal exclusive polling data on what Labour and Green voters think of Willie Jackson.

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Rumblestrip

Meanwhile David Seymour responds to every provocation in a calm, level-headed demeanour. Nothing gets to him.

Just witness his recent interview with Jenny-May Clarkson.
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November 14, 2024 4:59pm
- surfing
  
  I’m really impressed with Seymour and think he is seriously underrated by many.
  
  I’m not going to agree with everything he says necessarily, but his ability to argue his case is unmatched by anyone else in NZ politics. Unfortunately for him his political opponents are thick as shit and resort to insults which appeals to a large number of similarly thick New Zealanders.
  
  It’s becoming more of a problem as the NZ education system failure results in a larger proportion of the population being unemployable ne’er-do-wells who pop out welfare babies faster than any other demographic.
  
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  November 14, 2024 6:02pm
  - Swifty
    
    Quite the contrast between Seymour and his opponents isn’t it?
    
    Jackson and the Maori Party people are going to have their work cut out for them appeal to a majority of voters with their unhinged hysterics.
    
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    November 14, 2024 6:52pm
    - Rumblestrip
      
      One side seems to prefer insults, disruption, hyperbole and caterwauling.
      
      The other side seems to prefer reasoned, non-emotive debate with facts and logic.
      
      Both sides are appealing to their typical voter base.
      
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      November 14, 2024 8:09pm
- KH
  
  Here is that interview. It’s how this discussion should be had.
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-seymour-interviewed-by-jenny-may-clarkson-on-tvnz-breakfast-about-the-treaty-principles-bill-i
  
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  November 15, 2024 4:22am
Ra Henare

Why am I not surprised.
Willie is a shock Jock with low intellectual/reasoning skills.
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November 14, 2024 5:14pm
- Swifty
  
  He learnt his trade in freezing works lunch rooms and he hasn’t stopped with his union schtick since.
  
  It’s all he knows.
  
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  November 14, 2024 6:54pm
  - G152
    
    He is his fathers son.
    There is a meat works in Nauranga Gorge where I worked one season.
    Enough said
    
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    November 15, 2024 8:39am
cmm

Without reading the poll, I put it to you that every person on the Maori roll is something of an activist in that they at least believe they are entitled to be treated differently from everyone else. If they did not think that then they would go on the general roll.

And such activists are going to love TPM-style rabble-rousing. The more the better.

These fit with what we see in the 2023 election results. Maori voted in 6 TPM electoral candidates out of a possible 7.

Labour didn’t do well, probably because they were a bit more restrained.

In Waiariki, the very militant Rawiri Waititi won around 75% of the cast votes.

So I can’t believe that yelling at Seymour would do anything but enhance Willie Jackson’s support amongst his target audience.
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November 14, 2024 5:21pm
- PurplePen
  
  To a certain extent the Speaker is to blame for this behaviour. Brownlee has not pulled TPM nor Greens up for standard of dress, nor for disrespectful behaviour which only encourages those to go further each time.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:22pm
  - Ghost
    
    If you don’t like the dress code make a submission next time the Standing Orders committee reviews it
    
    2 13
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    November 14, 2024 8:34pm
    - PurplePen
      
      There is a dress code. I don’t care what it is, but what’s the point of having standards and rules if they’re not enforced. If not, chaos would ensue .. like this …
      
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIxMC4lgDDc
      
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      November 14, 2024 8:38pm
      - Ghost
        
        The dress code was relaxed under the previous government. If you don’t like the current dress code make a submission next time it is reviewed. It’s that simple. Make your voice heard.
        
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        November 14, 2024 8:42pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Willie called David Seymour a liar,

Addressing Seymour directly, he said: “You should be ashamed of yourself, and you are a liar”.

Does anyone have any clue as to what this accusation of lying refers to?

Or did Willie just want to be thrown out of the House today for show?
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November 14, 2024 5:33pm
- NK
  
  Who cares. Let’s stop giving Willie Jackson airtime. He’s vermin.
  
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  November 14, 2024 5:41pm
- cmm
  
  That’s still pretty tame compared to his November 2023 statement that Maori would go to war over a treaty referendum.
  
  I doubt he cares whether there is truth or not, or even the slightest whiff of a justification.
  
  Willie is largely the well-known face of the Maori Labour Party. After their spanking in 2023 he fully understands the need to be more radical to attract Maori roll votes.
  
  This is what the Maori roll gives us: Willie Jackson and Rawiri Waititi trying to out-extreme each other.
  
  Is that what they thought would happen in the 1860s when they made this mess, or in 1879 when they failed to clean it up?
  
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  November 14, 2024 5:48pm
- Ghost
  
  Reading Hansard he claims it was a message the hīkoi Wanted him to pass on
  
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  November 14, 2024 5:49pm
- AitchW
  
  What about Waititi telling Seymour at the end of his speech “I’ll see you next Tuesday”?
  Egregious disrespect for the kaupapa of the house.
  TPM is a disgrace aided and abetted by the Maori faction of Labour.
  
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  November 14, 2024 5:52pm
  - nathie
    
    I wonder if the likes of Jackson and Waititi would be true to their selves and accept traditional Maori (“de-colonised”) punishment being issued to them for disrespecting the House and its “elders”?
    
    Like if someone was to disrespect Tribal leaders pre-colonisation on the Marae?
    
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    November 14, 2024 6:14pm
  - James
    
    See you next Tuesday is a polite // way of calling some one a CU&T
    
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    November 15, 2024 7:50am
- PurplePen
  
  I wonder if Willie realises he was talking to his own kind, tangatawhenua.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:23pm
Chris Nisbet

Willie is the guy who thinks democracy has changed, isn’t he?
What he wants (i.e. some sort of partnership), isn’t democracy. It’s the opposite of democracy.
As for ‘partnership’, it’s more like a partnership where one of the ‘partners’ constantly abuses the other. It sounds like Willie just gave a good example of how it will work.
To make matters worse, Luxon shows all signs of being on Willie’s side.
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November 14, 2024 5:42pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Yes. Luxon and by extension, National, are the real problem.
  
  Carmel Sepuloni asked some very germane questions of Nicola Willis (per Luxon) in the house today, and she was correct to do so from an Opposition perspective, and actually, from an ACT-supporter perspective.
  
  Luxon agrees with the Opposition. As Luxon has said, he thinks the bill is “divisive”, “simplistic” and trashes “184 years of debate and discussion”.
  
  If the Nat stalwarts here think the Maori Party and the whole woke-industrial complex is getting out of hand, don’t blame Seymour, blame your own leader and party.
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/11/14/treaty-principles-bill-passes-first-reading-amid-haka-interruption/
  
  No matter, the whole purpose of this is to set the stage for a CIR which will show Luxon, et al. to be on the wrong side of history.
  
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  November 14, 2024 6:23pm
  - Damocles11
    
    Luxon has basically given Seymour a right kicking in a quite disgraceful way, the bill may be simplistic but only in the sense that it provides a clear vision and better pathway for a brighter future than the ‘we must negotiate with the terrorists for the rest of this countrys existence’ situation that we are currently in. It is a disgrace, an absolute and unmitigated disgrace, that Luxon would purport to negotiate a Coalition agreement in apparent good faith and then lambast the bill with some of the most disparaging comments that anyone has made about it – comments IMO more extreme than those made by the left and the separatists themselves. Luxon is a snake in the grass, his comments are totally beyond the pale, and I think Seymour will see this man for the duplicitous individual that he is. Luxon is sowing the seeds of the coalitions destruction through his own actions and words.
    
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    November 14, 2024 7:43pm
    - The Veteran
      
      Some OTT rhetoric here. This is an ACT Party Bill pure and simple. The coalition agreement required National to support it at its first reading … promise kept. An alternative POV is that Seymour has opened a Pandora’s Box and has allowed radical Maoridom to divert attention from the things that really matter and need fixing … the economy, health education and infrastructure. Seymour is playing dog whistle politics and he knows it because at the end of the day the coalition never had the numbers to pass it with NZ First taking a similar stance to that of National.
      
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      November 16, 2024 5:21pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Luxon says the bill is “divisive”, “simplistic” and trashes “184 years of debate and discussion”.
    
    The principles have only been in legislation since 1975. There has been no debate on the principles since they were introduced in 1975. Only discussion. And then that discussion hasn’t been in public.
    
    My understanding is the principles came about because there wasn’t agreement between Crown and all the Maori tribes on the meaning of the ToW. So someone suggested, well … what’s the underlying principles. Oddly enough, it seems no Maori raised an eyebrow at the insertion of the principles into legislation, nor the definition of the principles that’s gone on since 1975.
    
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    November 14, 2024 8:32pm
nygr

This is all a test run. Maori have shown how organised they are at a grass roots level. They’ve gathered the troops on mass. They’ve disrupted the roads and the lives of law abiding citizens. Today they managed to shut down parliament. Next week my guess is that we’ll see parliament raided by the activists on this so called hikoi. All part of a pre-op plan (a dummy run). And meanwhile the police and National hold their hands.
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November 14, 2024 5:43pm
- AitchW
  
  Their organisation will fall apart the moment the free kai stops.
  
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  November 14, 2024 5:59pm
- Jim
  
  I’m looking forward to aggressive Police baton charges like they did with the Freedom Protestors. Somehow I think this response will be quite different.
  
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  November 14, 2024 6:17pm
- Ghost
  
  Have Māori shown that? I’d say some, a very small percentage of Māori and the usual non maori rent a mob. They will turn up, do their protest, and move on. Protests disrupt. The anti mandate protests did, the groundswell did, the climate change protests did.
  
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  November 14, 2024 6:25pm
  - Swifty
    
    A very key point Ghost – this mob is small in numbers and don’t speak for nor represent the majority of Maori.
    
    Rent a mob is entirely correct.
    
    29 0
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    November 14, 2024 6:57pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Talking to (part) Maori in Aus I get the impression they think the prominent TPM people claiming to represent Maori are shonky.
      
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      November 14, 2024 8:32pm
  - RichardF
    
    I’ve been wondering how far some of them will be willing to go. It would not surprise me to see things get a little out of hand when they arrive at Parliament. But long term I wonder if a true separatist movement will emerge, a nz version of a Basque/ETA type of political movement and terrorist arm. The Maori party will only get more radical and demanding from here on. But who would they be fight? Fellow kiwis? I’m not sure.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:25pm
    - GJM
      
      Already have the terrorists, some were 8n the Ureweras
      Shame the police stuffed up, as usual. Convenient though.
      
      2 0
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      November 15, 2024 7:57am
- Kiwibeezelbub
  
  And all being indirectly funded by the taxpayers. TPM is effectively funded by John Tamihere Enterprises, which in turn is fed by taxpayer funding
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:46am
Chris Nisbet

Not much of a punishment (kicked out for the rest of the day).
Why not kicked out until he withdraws and apologises?
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November 14, 2024 6:26pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  Being kicked out used to be a serious enough punishment, back when people had a sense of honour and fundamental respect for the House.
  
  TPM seem to be devoid of honour and ironically have total contempt for the democratic system that put them where they are.
  
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  November 14, 2024 7:43pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  And for the time they are kicked out, they should lose pay.
  
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  November 15, 2024 10:32am
  - Rumblestrip
    
    I believe that automatically happens – she loses one day’s worth of pay.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:37pm
Hugh Jarse

I can’t help but think this increasing rhetoric and threatening behaviour is a prelude to the future unless some cooler heads in maoridom are able to assert some authority over the hot heads, but I suspect that bird has flown. The message this behaviour is sending internationally is not much better than that from some of the more unstable Pacific Islands.

It will potentially make people thinking about investing in New Zealand think again, make NZ unattractive to high quality immigrants and increase our already record numbers of migrants.
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November 14, 2024 6:29pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  I have to agree, it is a worry. People in leadership positions are stoking Maori resentment and getting people fired up, when they should be calling for calm.
  
  A great advantage of living in little old NZ is almost all our politicians live amongst us as literal equals, with no security at all — for instance I bumped into Shane Reti the other day at my corner dairy.
  
  The downside of this is our MPs can be relatively soft targets: for instance see the unhinged assault on James Shawn back in 2019. I do hope that Act MPs have taken some advice on security.
  
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  November 14, 2024 7:55pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Again, the news media have a lot to answer for as well. They keep stirring the pot with their wall to wall coverage of anything disparaging to pakeha & the government, and praise evrything Maori – including their ancient pagan religion.
    
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    November 15, 2024 10:43am
- PurplePen
  
  Or parliament turns into this, Taiwan parliamentary brawl, or similar that occurred no so long ago in Italy.
  
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIxMC4lgDDc
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:35pm
- julesnzuk
  
  I think you mean “increase our already record high number of emigrants” (ie people leaving). Otherwise totally agree. (Long term expat here by the way, living in the UK and cringing at what my home country has degenerated into).
  
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  November 15, 2024 9:48am
SmokerGuy

Well I’ve made a decision that I will vote ACT next election regardless of their policies, out of pure spite towards the left. I hope many people do too to show these animals that their behaviour has consequences. Never seen a more disgusting display in parliament than that by the Maori Party today.
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November 14, 2024 6:43pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I imagine most people find a haka interesting/exciting/alarming the first time they witness one, but after 70 years of seeing various haka, I’m totally underwhelmed by the performance.
  
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  November 14, 2024 7:12pm
  - Swifty
    
    Familiarity breeds contempt.
    
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    November 14, 2024 7:52pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I really don’t see why THAT is a centre-piece of Maori culture. Personally I find it cringe-worthy. Maybe because it’s just been done to death and I don’t see why we should be so amazed by it. Watching macho chest-beating doesn’t do much for me, in general. Plenty of absolute tossers over here who like to imagine they are big time bad boys.
    
    22 1
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    November 14, 2024 8:40pm
    - julesnzuk
      
      Agree – it’s an overdone display of willy waving these days.
      
      1 0
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      November 15, 2024 9:50am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Indeed, also, isn’t it considered poor form to use Te Rauparaha’s Haka?
    
    Ngati Kahungunu and Ngai Tahu have a serious issue with that sociopathic dude.
    
    0 0
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    November 15, 2024 6:31pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  Interesting to see Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke disrupted the vote with a haka. I thought that traditionally women were not allowed to participate in the haka… or is it another case where everyone has to bow down to traditional protocol, except for them?
  
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  November 14, 2024 7:40pm
  - julesnzuk
    
    Female soldiers do it in the NZ army (albeit with different actions) – one of the rare circumstances where it’s not overdone and cringeworthy and kind of works.
    
    1 0
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    November 15, 2024 9:51am
jon

Interesting to note in today’s Taxpayer poll how the Treaty has appeared as an issue by 17%. This issue has legs, six months of Select Committee hearings will awaken the masses. Nats likely to end up with egg on their faces. Seymour is a man of substance.
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November 14, 2024 7:24pm
- NK
  
  If Luxon believes the Bill is “simplistic” he, and his MPs, can fix that during the select committee process.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:12pm
Damocles11

The stunning moral cowardice and intellectual dishonesty of Luxon shocks me more than anything Jackson could do, as I expect immature and uncivilised shenanigans from Jackson but I hoped Luxon was made of far better stuff than he has displayed. For Luxon to heap derision on Seymours bill the way he has just fills me with disgust, and he has repeatedly mis-categorised both the substance and intent of the bill in such a way that I can only conclude he is a fundamentally dishonest person. And for National MP’s to stand up and say that Seymours bill ‘does nothing’ or is ‘too simplistic’ is to my thinking just weasel words. Affirming every New Zealanders equal rights and universal dignity – that is worthy and laudable: the ideals are simplistic only in the sense that they should be absolutely fundamental, and National should be the party fighting tooth & nail for such ideals – not running away from them. I think the PM and those who support his viewpoint are disgraceful, and are needlessly supporting so-called ‘complexity’ which only bogs our nation down in the soul destroying process of feeding a gravy train and pandering to an entitlement and grievance mentality. I am ashamed of Luxon and the National party.
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November 14, 2024 7:34pm
- goNZ1
  
  Luxon pushed total maorification when he was boss of air nz so is consistent there. The safety videos were sickening ,also JA had him onboard in his earlier career.
  If maoridom really want to run their own affairs, and live in the past, that means slavery,cannibalism, and only the taxes available are from their own.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:07pm
- Rintintin
  
  I wish I could put words together like that – but must say they express exactly how I feel.
  
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  November 15, 2024 7:45pm
Hollyfield

I’ve received an email from Paul Goldsmith tonight, setting National’s objection to the bill. I now have a greater understanding of National’s position.

However he has lost me in his final sentence when he says “improve outcomes for Maori and non-Maori”. I strenuously reject the label “non-Maori”. That final sentence would have been far less divisive as “improve outcomes for all New Zealanders”, or “improve outcomes for New Zealanders of all races”.
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November 14, 2024 7:39pm
- Damocles11
  
  I don’t know how Goldsmith managed to soft soap you but my experience of such exercises in explaining away obviously poor conduct is that they start to wear thin as your brain subconsciously goes to work on the fallacies and flawed logic. You’ll feel differently in a couple of days. Luxon and the National party have shamed themselves.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:21pm
  - Hollyfield
    
    I perhaps wasn’t clear in my comment. I didn’t say I agreed with National, just that I now understand their position.
    
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    November 14, 2024 10:15pm
Swifty

Sorry, who is the liar Mr Jackson?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/533792/watch-labour-s-willie-jackson-ejected-from-house-for-calling-david-seymour-a-liar-during-treaty-principles-bill-reading

Jackson claims the Treaty Principles Bill is costing taxpayers $4 million dollars.

That is a gross misrepresentation of the reality.

$4 million is the estimated cost of running Parliament for the time it is estimated the bill will take to go through – but that is a cost that the taxpayer will have to bear with or without the Treaty Principles Bill. You could take out the TP bill and replace it with another bill and the taxpayer will still be on the hook for the cost of running Parliament.

I say Jackson is lying. Deliberately. He knows this but is deliberately attempting to slander Seymour and the bill anyway he can.

It is also the hugest irony that Jackson is whinging about a few millions of taxpayer dollars being spent – when he was a senior Minister in the last Labour government which pissed away tens and tens of billions of our money and with little or nothing to show for it.

I used to like Willie Jackson in a rough and ready kind of way – now I revile him as a one of the worst and most dangerous Labour MPs I’ve seen.

He openly misleads, he would have tribal rule because ‘democracy has changed’, he abuses and name-calls (all the time) rather than debate – and he is clearly one of the greatest private benefactors of government largesse in recent times via Waatea, Whanau Ora and other initiatives he is involved in – and all while Maori measures stagnated under Labour.

Jackson is in it for himself. Just like his mate Tamihere.
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November 14, 2024 7:48pm
goNZ1

TPM made it clear today that they want a separate Parliament and special rights,plus today completely trampled on any respect for the democratic system in this country.

Seymour is trying to force the issue of Separatism and democracy onto voters , and fair enough, but the cost of doing so may jeopardize the overall aim of Luxon to get NZ back on track and is a distraction from that.

Think about the huge numbers of NZers still moving to Australia ,even after the change in govt ! I think They have made the right decision,which is to abandon NZ to the Tangata Whenua who seek to return NZ to pre-European days plus KFC and Lotto
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November 14, 2024 8:28pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Luxon needs to explain himself a lot more thoroughly on this. Currently not good enough.
  
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  November 14, 2024 8:50pm
- Damocles11
  
  ‘Get NZ back on track’ is just hollow sloganeering, code for ‘get your heads down, bury them in the sand, while we deliver New Zealand to Maori activists on a plater’.
  
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  November 14, 2024 9:23pm
- JackRabbit
  
  TPM made it clear today that they want a separate Parliament and special rights…
  
  Auckland Island is in about the same condition as New Zealand before colonisation. I’d chip in money for a one way ticket for TPM to move there and set up their own parliament. And they can take the luddite Greens with them.
  
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  November 14, 2024 11:38pm
- NK
  
  The passing of this Bill is entirely necessary in order to get NZ “back on track” (whatever that means).
  
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  November 15, 2024 2:26am
greenjacket

If Jackson and TPM are the leadership of Maori, and they believe that Maori have special rights and privileges, that Maori are not NZers subject ti the same laws as the rest of us, and that their hysterical and threatening behaviour is appropriate leadership, then NZ has a major problem.
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November 14, 2024 10:04pm
- Terry Dalee
  
  “This bill seeks to give Māori rights and indigenous rights to everyone” – The Dishonorable Willie Jackson
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20241114_051660000/jackson-willie
  
  Yep, thats pretty clear that the special people think they are more special and exclusive rights and think your better than everyone else.
  
  NZ has a major problem, its just that most NZers don’t see it or are too apathetic to care.
  
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  November 15, 2024 6:37am
Dave Winefield

Let’s stop with the ridiculous Maori terms for everyday things. There is no Aotearoa. There is no tikanga. There is a New Zealand, we do have customs. To have the Maori term respected, Maori need to show a little respect to the rest of us. Until then, go to the naughty step, and stay there.
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November 15, 2024 8:17am
- Libertysparks
  
  To have Maori respected, Maori need to start performing and contributing to NZ rather than bleeding tax paying Kiwis for every cent they can bludge in the name of the Treaty of Waitangi.
  NZ’s lowest perfoming demographic group demanding the largest slice of the economic pie. contemptible!
  
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  November 15, 2024 11:12am

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General Debate 04 June 2026 4 June 2026
Meet the Greens – ACC 4 June 2026
Democrat says lock up the Jews 3 June 2026
Another British policing scandal 3 June 2026
General Debate 03 June 2026 3 June 2026
A win for democracy 3 June 2026
$600k on a website for a building! 2 June 2026
Set housing outcomes not outputs 2 June 2026
General Debate 02 June 2026 2 June 2026
Of course GP wait times will skyrocket under Labour 2 June 2026

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Links

Parliament fails to defend transparency
No Right Turn
"The principal view of human laws is, or ought always to be, to explain, protect, and enforce such rights as are absolute, which in themselves are few and simple."
Not PC
To be fair – nothing manages to celebrate the sham 250 year democracy of a neofascist regime quite like Vanilla Ice
The Daily Blog
Daily review 04/06/2026
The Standard
Word of the day
Hompaddock
The response to Budget 2026 has been unusually muted
Point of Order
We Are a Country That Decided Housing Was The Economy
No Minister
My Opening Statement for the UATX Caplan-Jones Immigration Rematch
Utopia
Playing with numbers.
Kiwipolitico
Another non-tariff barrier
Offsetting Behaviour
Rugby Premiership Predictions for Round 18
Stats Chat
Budget 2026
NZCPR
UK Conversion Therapy Ban, Digital ID, Rallies, Elections
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
A central banker’s fiction
Croaking Cassandra
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Get Vaccinated Tomorrow Or Shut Your Pie Hole
Cactus Kate
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

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