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May 30, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 May 2025

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General Debate

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Scott

The excellent Victor Davis Hanson gives us the inside scoop about the meeting between President Trump and South African president Ramaphosa.

https://youtu.be/ked3oZd42co?si=ny6X9A5lWlx1Nc42

Ramaphosa wanted the meeting. Trump was slapping 30% tariffs on south African imports and stopping the $500m of aid that America gave them annually. At the meeting Trump exposed on video the killing of white farmers, the laws discriminating against white people and a South African politician calling for the killing of white farmers.

Only Trump would do this. Stand up to a racist anti white regime. All other politicians around the world won’t touch this, it doesn’t fit with the woke narrative that only whites are racist and responsible for racism.

This was a boss move. Many on this blog criticise Luxon for being weak and woke. Well then you have to respect this move from Trump. This is the opposite of weak and woke. This is a boss move from Trump. And quite frankly calling out South Africa was long overdue.

The ANC has consistently cozied up to China and Russia and Iran and voted against America in the UN most of the time. Why should they get preferred trade treatment and $500m of overseas aid?
Another win for Trump. So much winning. 😎
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May 30, 2025 8:09am
- imalwaysright
  
  Well put Scott.
  
  As an aside, the South African government won’t give Elon Musk, a natural born South African , a license to deploy Starlink in SA because he isn’t black skinned.
  
  (Since Trump’s statements the SA government say this will be “reviewed”.)
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:39am
- Ian Boag
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Trump exposed on video the killing of white farmers
  
  We all know you are a Trumpy fan, except that one of the two videos was from the DRC and the other was a local protest …..
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:41am
  - Fender
    
    logically then, by your dismissal and belittling of the original poster and the “plain for anyone who lives in reality” intention of Trump in this instance, are you denying that there any problems in South Africa at all or are you just that obtuse
    [ Mod – stick to the issue ]
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:07am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Make what you will of this …
      
      https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-showed-videos-crosses-context-south-africa-genocide/story?id=122056100
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:10am
      - Gravelroad
        
        There are a number of South Africans living in this area- all top class professionals in their fields.
        They all have horror stories about what happened to white people, farmers, and women in their former country – some of them too horrific to repeat here.
        I believe them.
        
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        May 30, 2025 10:46am
      - Conservatarian
        
        ABC News actively covered up the vegetation of Biden’s brain, his terminal cancer, and the conspiracy of unelected advisors to manage the White House for four years from Jan 2021. All while Biden wore the skin suit of the US President.
        
        This is the largest scandal in US presidential history.
        
        All to demonise a particular person and later as a ruse in a failed attempt to dupe voters into voting against that same person when he was a candidate for POTUS.
        
        ABC News and its fellow legacy media outlets have destroyed their collective credibility. Most certainly each has no credibility as regards reporting on Trump.
        
        This is the standard that all such legacy news outlets should be judged against.
        
        Why would you possibly cite this corrupt and deceitful news organisation?
        
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        May 30, 2025 11:47am
      - Ra Henare
        
        a great example of the clash of propoganda.
        Trump trying to manipulate the South African President.
        
        ABC trying(again) to Trash Trump.
        
        Yawn
        
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        May 30, 2025 3:05pm
  - Scott
    
    Ian-the killing of white farmers has been going on for some years. It’s very dangerous to be a white farmer and not helped when leading political figures chant “kill the Boer” to stadiums full of people.
    I’ve spoken to south Africans who know what’s going on and it is going on.
    
    Now it’s hard to get accurate information right now because it’s Trump and the same legacy media that told us that Trump was a Russian stooge is now telling us, by reflex, that Trump is wrong.
    
    But outside the legacy media it is being reported and the plight of white South Africans is very real. They are being discriminated against.
    
    And when you can chant, kill this racial minority group, with impunity then it’s a very bad situation.
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:34am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Ramaphosa does not try to deny there is a crime problem in SA. My point was that the videos DT was showing were not what he said they were …..
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:04am
      - Gravelroad
        
        Hatred and distrust of a politician should not blind people to the reality of genuine issues elsewhere.
        Mr Trump was no doubt told by his staff that the videos were genuine. Or he just made it up for – reasons.
        Either way, it doesn’t alter the ongoing situation in South Africa for white farmers and their families.
        
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        May 30, 2025 11:16am
      - Local Miller
        
        One section, maybe two out of a 5 minute video had been incorrectly added. This doesn’t invalidate the rest of the 5 minutes.
        
        I’m an SA expat, and I can confirm that 95% of what Trump showed from SA. I can also testify to the racial discrimination in SA. One of the reasons I left to come to NZ was because of the anti-white racism and legislation implemented. I spent 2 years trying to get a new job because the company I was with wanted me to relocate from Cape Town to Johannesburg, and I didn’t want to stay near my family. I’m a specialist in IT and there are relatively few in my area of IT, particularly in SA, but EVER advert I responded to, the agent’s first comment was: “You are aware that this is an Affirmative Action position?” In other words we can’t hire you because of your skin colour!
        
        The murder of SA Farmers isn’t a “crime statistic”, it’s the systematic attack on white farmers.
        
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        May 30, 2025 12:03pm
      - Ghost
        
        Unfortunately this is what happens when his staff don’t do their job. The message is lost and the focus turns to the wrong photos and videos. He really needs to sort his staff out
        
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        May 30, 2025 12:14pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Murder rate in the US
        
        6/100k
        
        Murder rate in RSA 45 /100k
        
        Murder rate of farmers in RSA 165-170/100k
        
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        May 30, 2025 1:11pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Alloytoo yes SA is so messed up that even little old ladies carry a .45 when out and about.
        
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        May 30, 2025 8:41pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      In the UK, I’m pretty sure that chanting “Kill the (victim of preference)” would result in a visit from Mr Plod. Hell, I expect it would happen here also.
      
      But not in SA. See the difference?
      
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      May 30, 2025 12:53pm
  - Interested Party
    
    Classic Trump, uses hyperbolic language, gets a couple of facts wrong but directionally true – the train spotters point this out, but everyone now knows about the issue and even with inaccuracies everyone with a brain goes that Trump guy is broadly right. Taking past the sale, classic PR win
    
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    May 30, 2025 11:21am
    - Local Miller
      
      Except Trump wasn’t using hyperbole, the only issue was that 2 cuts in the 5 minutes were incorrect. 95% was from SA.
      
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      May 30, 2025 12:06pm
- sungsamning
  
  Yep, they don’t deserve the steam off a bowl of pangolin soup.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:42am
- Notsofast
  
  Dave Rubin interviews a guy called Rob Hersov in this wide ranging picture of the past to the present.
  49 minutes
  
  https://youtu.be/gCVENj_vyjM?si=PVFseXFsC67jb1bf
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:23am
  - Conservatarian
    
    Fantastic interview this one.
    
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    May 30, 2025 11:50am
- pb
  
  The WhiteHouse charade is a divide and conquer campaign.
  
  It has more to do with South Africa’s litigation of Bibi in international courts over the slaughter in Gaza.
  
  Flick switch, Black bad, white good. Flick switch, white bad, black good. On and on till the fuse burns out.
  
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  May 30, 2025 12:20pm
I remember when

I remember when I could watch, or read, the news and know what organisation, government department or lobby group was offering advice.
However, it seems, this sort of knowledge is no longer considered a requirement by those reporting.
Perhaps it is to demonstrate their superior worldly knowledge and Aotearoanness.
Is there such a word – never mind there will be another one along shortly – more regular than the bus service.
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May 30, 2025 8:19am
- R
  
  Yes, I am always surprised by the size of the ‘experts’ family, who are mentioned in most media articles; and the very widespread range of their knowledge. Must be a very large family, perhaps conceived before the advent of TV.
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:27am
Maggy Wassilieff

Odds on Sir Winston this weekend?
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May 30, 2025 8:27am
- CJames
  
  I think Sir Shane would be a lot more windup for the Opposition.
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:29am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggy: What, for services to himself?
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:30am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    David, you are suggesting his work several times on foreign affairs was simply a waste of time, I don’t give the man much credit, but you can’t rule out his work in foreign affairs, he seems very passionate about it.
    
    No I have not forgotten him asleep on stage in Turkey.
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:11am
    - David Garrett
      
      G: He is well paid for the job he is doing – as are the judges who in the majority of cases don’t dispense what most New Zealanders would call justice.
      
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      May 30, 2025 9:52am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Agree most judges, but he has been exceptional re-foreign affairs
        
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        May 30, 2025 9:57am
    - AitchW
      
      Even a stopped clock is right twice a day..
      Peters is only interested in what gets him the limelight.
      
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      May 30, 2025 12:17pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Be fair. Peters is a scumbag weasel, always out for himself, and a net negative on NZ political life – constantly appealing to the stupid and confused.
        
        However, he has been a bloody good Foreign Minister, probably the best we have had since McKinnon, and maybe even the best since WW2. This Deity never expected to say this, but he has been a consummate professional in the FA gig.
        
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        May 30, 2025 5:43pm
  - mogg
    
    Winston plays a very important roll, he will say in parliament what most people are thinking but will never put into words. He also neutralises. the rampant media criticism by turning their accusations back onto them, he makes it quite clear they he will not play along with their games.
    
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    May 30, 2025 11:57am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Knighthood for services to plain speaking.
      
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      May 30, 2025 8:09pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Not this year
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:39am
- Graeme Hall
  
  Order of the Grand Charlatan.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:24am
  - kowtow
    
    Or as per the orders from Yes Minister.
    
    Winnie would want the GCMG.
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:45am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      God calls me God
      
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      May 30, 2025 12:54pm
- RoboRob
  
  Zero chance. He will be knighted the moment he leaves parliament. Based on history, that may be never 🙂
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:35am
  - pdm
    
    Post humus Rr.
    
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    May 30, 2025 1:15pm
- rouppe
  
  Low. They wouldn’t do that until he retires.
  
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  May 30, 2025 12:01pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Shell Lane (The Terrace) bike rack report:

At 8.28am, null bikes once more.

But, it’s a Friday, and it’s a long weekend. Hardly surprising.

A cool, calm, dry morning in the Capital, ideal for cycling.
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May 30, 2025 8:28am
- imalwaysright
  
  Every weekend is a long weekend in Wellington.
  
  They use the Ardernian Calendar.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:44am
- Ford Prefect
  
  The motorbike park next to the bike rack is full once again. Be interesting to see how the Council intend to gather their daily parking tax from these Motorbike parks, and what affect it has. I dont suppose anyone would swap to unmotorised transport
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:46am
Master Mariner

I have been following this incident in NY , USA.

Who Is to Blame for the Allision between Cuauhtémoc and the Brooklyn Bridge?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0h0BL9li-o

Here’s my take ,
The Controlerable Pitch Propeller (CPP) and Gearbox “defaulted to full astern Pitch”, Some Gear boxes are notorious for this and as Master you must know. This is mainly due to loss of control signal to CPP and or Failure of Gearbox. etc

Another thing you must do in a Master /Pilot exchange is confirm which anchor/s is cleared in case of emergency for immediate release and let go at a moments notice. And also how vessels propulsion / steering system is configured by a Pilot Card.

In Maritime Law, You always Blame the other vessel and more so in USA where there is a high criminalisation of Mariners hence the Mexican Navy blaming the Pilot.
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May 30, 2025 8:31am
- Taieri
  
  The Controlerable Pitch Propeller (CPP) and Gearbox “defaulted to full astern Pitch”, Some Gear boxes are notorious for this
  ————
  
  Indeed. And it is not usually stated in the documentation. Crazy idea. It should default to Zero pitch.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:41am
- Dave
  
  A new word for me at 77 years old – ‘allision”! Not a word I’m likely to use every day but, all the same, thanks, MM.
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:18am
john1234

Winston and Shane are inevitable but it would be better to wait until they’ve retired.
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May 30, 2025 8:34am
Jack5

RFNZ?

WTF? Turned on Red Radio this morning and out came came This is the F-n News Paddy Gower!

He enlivened “Morning Report,” and by Red Radio norms was refreshingly cynical in interviewing someone unhappy with school truancy policy.

But how did RNZ’s Lefty audience react?
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May 30, 2025 8:34am
- RoboRob
  
  Perhaps this is an attempt to regain market share. not sure I would want to listen to Paddy Gower personally.
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:21am
  - pdm
    
    Paddy does have a face for radio though.
    
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    May 30, 2025 1:17pm
Paul Marsden

I vote Ruth Tipu New Zealander of the year for her stance over the obscene atrocity shown towards the New Zealand flag at the Suter Art Gallery, Nelson.
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May 30, 2025 8:34am
- imalwaysright
  
  It seems that the gallery and/or the Nelson council are bleating about the pushback from the public.
  (Platform interview with Nelson deputy mayor)
  
  The fact that they both enabled an offensive display which invited interaction from the public seems to have escaped their notice…
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:12am
  - pdm
    
    Just the Deputy Mayor I think. His next trick will be at number 6 on the Green Party list.
    
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    May 30, 2025 1:19pm
- kowtow
  
  She was interviewed by Plunket this morning.
  
  And yes, good on her.
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Below is a list of 35 current laws that officially reference Māori spiritual or cultural concepts. This list includes the specific terms used and the legal context in which they are applied.

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2025/05/insights-from-social-media_30.html#more
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May 30, 2025 8:35am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  If you are somehow trying to tie this to the legislation to remove the TREATY from law, then removing maori was not the police, it was removing the treaty from the law, not the word maori.
  
  Just sayin
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:41am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The article is mainly about Maori spiritual concepts that are now embedded in our Laws…
    
    “Things” like mauri, mana, wairua, tikanga,etc.
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:04am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      As long as the Treaty is not guiding laws and making woke judges making ridiculous conclusions then who cares, having the word Māori in the law does not give a judge some sort of right to let criminal Māori walk free
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:22am
- pdm
  
  Isn’t it that List that Winston was going to deal to instead of supporting the simpler and more effective method of the Treaty Principles Bill.
  
  Well from this weekend former Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has more time on his hands.
  
  So I say – off arse Winston and get on with doing what you said you were going to do in removing Maorification from Government Departments.
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:46am
  - Mike
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Not going to happen. Māoritanga is an inseparable component of our national identity.
    
    7 43
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    May 30, 2025 9:05am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Don’t talk crap, the bill to get rid of every word mentioning the treaty in law is going through the house, Tanga has nothing to do with it
      
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      May 30, 2025 9:59am
    - Dave
      
      You’re probably right – it’s not going to happen. But one does wonder –
      
      1) What exactly is the NZ identity? (And for that matter, in general terms, what is a ‘national identity’?)
      2) Who decided this for us all?
      3) What is the role of national identity in legislation?
      4) To what extent can spiritual terms of dubious scientific reality, or rejected by others of different spirituality, be imposed on everybody?
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:39am
    - Peter S
      
      Since a not insignificant number Maori were already Christians before the signing of the treaty including some Chiefs that were signatiories. Then Christianity must be considered Maoritanga.
      
      It would be ridiculous to infer that the Chiefs would be signing up for protection and promotion of what they had personally rejected (at least not without equivalent protection and promotion of what they now embraced).
      
      Which means that the current implementation of the principles are not fit for purpose anyway.
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:51am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Yes, according to lefty folklore Mike.
      
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      May 30, 2025 8:10pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    No it is not, the list that the agreement between Nat’s and NZF and agreed by Act was taking the word and any reference to the TREATY out of law, the word Māori being taken out of law is utterly ridiculous, I know people will down vote this post, but just stop and think what people are suggesting
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:14am
    - pdm
      
      G whatever it was they were going to remove National and NZFirst are slow starters.
      
      All could have been done if they had supported the Treaty Principles Bill and the whooo haaaaa would have been all over by now.
      
      11 2
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      May 30, 2025 10:59am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        +Sigh, it doesn’t matter, its going through the house, and it will happen, unlike Acts TPB which slowed this legislation up, it doesn’t matter a damn, because NZF were bitterly opposed, so no matter what Nat’s did it would have failed at second reading
        
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        May 30, 2025 11:29am
      - Colville
        
        pdm.
        Treaty bill would have ended up in Supreme Court surely had it got any further?
        and we know the SC didnt want the people being allowed to make up their own minds on laws!!
        
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        May 30, 2025 3:13pm
  - AitchW
    
    I suspect that Peters will shift into electioneering mode now. Wait for more and more bombast and posturing.
    
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    May 30, 2025 1:24pm
- sungsamning
  
  Thanks for that. All of these need to be taken off the books at once.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:45am
Biscuit

Heh heh, David…

But, predictably, the list of those honoured will almost certainly include:

Some reasonably-well-known arty/musico person
A rather-better-known sporting individual or two
A local body busybody
A judge/judgess
A hitherto-unknown-to-me Maori knight or dame
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May 30, 2025 8:35am
- MCōs
  
  Who would you like to see on the list.
  Presuming you are in favour of such things
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:39am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    HAHA, he wants no Māori, no woman, no judges, no religious heads, no sporting identities, no politician, shit perhaps he wants to arise himself as Sir. (SARC)
    
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    May 30, 2025 8:46am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      To all the down tickers, it’s a joke for once with good ole Biscuit.
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:31am
      - Biscuit
        
        I’d hasten to agree, G.
        
        Sheesh, people are SO quick to hit the downtick!
        
        Betcha even this post attracts a few!
        
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        May 30, 2025 12:45pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Good point, MCōs.
    
    I’d be inclined to overlook the groups I listed above (all of whom tend to be well-remunerated for their ‘services’) and only ‘reward’ volunteers within the community.
    
    Supporters of the Liverpool Football Club wouldn’t be excluded, of course!
    
    Do you have any preferences for awardees?
    
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    May 30, 2025 8:48am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      So Howard Webb then?
      (you really do make this too easy)
      
      6 1
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      May 30, 2025 9:03am
      - Biscuit
        
        Grrr, heh heh.
        
        And, G, re your point up above, I would hope that – in the (unlikely) event of anything such being offered to me that I would decline an honour.
        
        You?
        
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        May 30, 2025 9:27am
      - Paulus
        
        Who ?
        Is he a Maori too ?
        
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        May 30, 2025 9:33am
    - MCōs
      
      I’ve read autobiographies of British alcoholic drug addicted rockstars who have survived to late middle age hobnobbing with royalty and finally been invested with a knighthood
      
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      May 30, 2025 9:28am
      - sungsamning
        
        Hipsters with hip replacements. [Mark Steyn.]
        
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        May 30, 2025 9:47am
      - David Garrett
        
        MCos: Yes…I believe Her late Majesty was none too pleased having to invest Sir Mick Jagger with the Order of the Something or other.
        
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        May 30, 2025 10:15am
      - MCōs
        
        Apparently the monarch has the final say and she rarely took the opportunity to veto the government’s selections, but for years she held up Jagger’s knighthood. Might have been something to do with his intimate friendship with her sister . . . . .
        
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        May 30, 2025 11:14am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Celebrity/Hollywood “scumbags” as Matt Walsh would say.
        
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        May 30, 2025 8:11pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Re-Below, i hope you can see the capital letters in brackets saying (SARC) it was a joke FFS.
      
      Me not likely to get one now, but i was quite high up competitively in my sporting disciplines, and was a captain in my Sur Live Saving Club, so a possibility was there, some of my close mates had received them for SLS, and one actually got a Nobel prize for his work in SLS and other community work he did, he received an MBE many years ago as well.
      
      Does that answer the question?
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:29am
      - Biscuit
        
        Ah, yep, G, I ‘got’ the sarcasm!
        
        I give it, I expect to get it back!
        
        Your mate seems far better suited for a gong than the entitled (censored) (censored) (censored) types who will undoubtedly already be penning their ‘This isn’t for me, of course. It’s to reflect the excellence of (noble cause)” acceptance speeches.
        
        (Apologies if I rubbed you up the wrong way. Life’s too short for me to have a large South Island chap looking daggers at me!)
        
        Why not GIVE it to that cause then – rather than to an individual?
        
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        May 30, 2025 11:54am
  - Cassandra
    
    Less of “Services to Maori”.
    
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    May 30, 2025 8:50am
    - imalwaysright
      
      “Services to Maori”
      The ambiguity oozes from that one.
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:33am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Labour is gone, the last few honours lists have been spread fairly over the complete society since, if a Māori person does good for their community and is actively working at help young people to be brought up as model NZers, then they deserve their honour as much as a white person doing exactly the same i would have thought.
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:43am
  - Graeme Hall
    
    Yes, all of them doing good for the mythical “community”.
    
    Here are two suggestions: Sir David Tamihere – services to tourism. Sir John Tamihere – services to welfare.
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:32am
  - Cassandra
    
    But we don’t honour the Europeans “For service to New Zealanders of European descent”, do we? And if our honouree would restrict his or her efforts to Europeans only would he or she get a gong?
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:40am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  It’s never 1000’s
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:00am
- mandk
  
  If you are correct about the musico person, we could end up with Dame Lorde (not that I rate her).
  
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  May 30, 2025 11:02am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Why be gender biased?
    
    Lord Lorde has a certain Catch-22 ring about it.
    
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    May 30, 2025 12:59pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No offence, I was just joking, and I remembered my mate who got that small Nobel prize, they actually fly you to Sweden, I guess it is more of a deal than I even realised, he did a huge amount of other work to get that award, not that he even thought about it, someone latter nominated him, he did all sorts of other things like teach mentally handicapped kids to swim and several other things
  
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  May 30, 2025 12:57pm
Ipanema69

As a public service here is my advanced voting guide for the 2026 election.

If you want a government that is orientated to the right party vote ACT.

If you want Winston to decide what kind of government we will have party vote New Zealand First.

If you want any other kind of government party vote for anyone else.
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May 30, 2025 8:37am
Jethrod

There was discussion yesterday at 1.56 by David, concerning pedestrian crossings. Something about white diamonds before one didn’t ring true. Because it is important here is what I found on the internet:-
In New Zealand, a white diamond painted on the road indicates that a pedestrian crossing is ahead. It’s a warning to drivers to slow down and be prepared to stop for pedestrians who may be crossing or waiting to cross.
Here’s a more detailed explanation:
Purpose:
The white diamond is a visual cue for drivers to be aware of a pedestrian crossing and to give way to pedestrians.
Location:
It’s typically painted on the road before the actual pedestrian crossing markings (zebra crossing).
Importance:
It’s a reminder to drivers to be cautious and considerate of pedestrians, especially those who may be vulnerable like children or the elderly.
I wouldn’t want fellow bloggers to be responsible for wrong info and taking out a child or OAP.
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May 30, 2025 8:38am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That seems to have changed slightly from when i went for my licence, yes it does suggest a crossing is ahead, but from what i remember and i think one of my questions from the instructor was it also gives you the safe stopping time before entering the crossing, it may have changed as speeds have become variable these days, but that’s what it used to mean
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:17am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Same.
    If the car was already past the diamond then the car had right of way?
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:35am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Thats the one, I guess the rule changed when you had to stop for pedestrians on either side of the road, and that law changed made the other law not possible
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:35am
    - Jethrod
      
      So, if a child is not tall enough to see the white diamond, which can be 40 meters away(unsure of the required distance), does that bring the onus on to them , or a driver who has not a care in the world and thus ignores safety and responsibility?
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:37am
      - imalwaysright
        
        What?
        
        1 0
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        May 30, 2025 12:40pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        [Mod – deleted] read what we said, no one is suggesting a kid has to look at the diamond, you still must drive to what’s in front of you and to the conditions, that trait is coming out of leftie on FB, as soon as a speed limit goes back to what it was before Labour chopped all speed limits against our will, they say, oh well you are going to kill 1000s, even though when Nat’s were last in we seen the smallest road death for a very long time
        
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        May 30, 2025 2:54pm
    - rouppe
      
      What? That’s moronic.
      
      For the car to have the right of way over a pedestrian on the crossing, the pedestrian would also have to have a clear view of that diamond in order to make the complementary assessment.
      
      Patently stupid. The diamond is a signal to the vehicle there a pedestrian crossing ahead, to slow down and be prepared to stop. Simple as that.
      
      About 25 years ago I was crossing Courtney place, on a crossing. Was on the second half of the crossing and a bus, a bloody bus, blew past me missing me by about a foot. At speed.
      
      I chased it to the bus stop and berated the driver. He actually said “see that diamond, it’s to tell you to give way to the traffic”. Honestly, the guy was retarded.
      
      https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roads-and-rail/traffic-control-devices-manual/part-5-traffic-control-devices-for-general-use-between-intersections/pedestrian-facilities/pedestrian-crossings-zebra/
      
      S11 To inform approaching traffic of the presence of a pedestrian crossing, a road controlling authority, on each approach to the pedestrian crossing:
      
      (c) may mark a pedestrian crossing warning marking in the form of a diamond on the road surface.
      
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      May 30, 2025 12:21pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Also, the pedestrian must be standing adjacent to the crossing – not walking along the footpath to the crossing. There is usually a deliniated place for them to stand.
        
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        May 30, 2025 2:12pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Don yes.
        In no way do I advocate a pedestrian just jump onto a crossing expecting traffic to stop.
        
        Stand on the footpath clearly intending to cross, and make sure any traffic IS stopping before stepping out.
        
        In that bus example I’d already crossed half the road.
        
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        May 30, 2025 2:21pm
      - The Housekeeper
        
        Nope, as NZ kids we were always taught NOT to cross if the car was on or past the diamond. Years later, when my sister was hit on a crossing in Grey Lynn, the driver was found not guilty because CCTV showed they were just upon the diamond so my sister was not safe to cross. My sister did not have the right of way, case discharged.
        Road diamonds were a cheap, pragmatic solution to crossing accidents but everyone needed to know the rule. If the car was on or past the diamond your safety could not be guaranteed so don’t cross. I use the past tense because it’s ages since I saw road diamonds.
        
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        May 30, 2025 2:24pm
      - rouppe
        
        Point me to anywhere in the road code or legislation that specifies that. It does not exist.
        
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        May 30, 2025 4:49pm
Nukuleka

As a Cantabrian I am somewhat unsettled by the decision by Environment Canterbury councilors that they must all stick to an agreed set of policy viewpoints when speaking on topics such as farming, the environment and the Treaty of Waitangi. I recognize that this constraint is limited to forums, meetings etc when they are specifically representing Ecan but I still wonder about the ramifications in terms of free speech, particularly for councilors who are democratically elected and whose loyalties appear to be compromised- forced to spout the prescribed Ecan line rather than being free to speak on behalf of their constituents.
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May 30, 2025 8:54am
- sungsamning
  
  It sounds like groupthink has been embedded there. No need already, as they all probably believe the woke version.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:50am
CJames

Like Biscuit, the volunteer sevices to the community and a lot less of those who were in high paying jobs. Why do judges need knighthoods? They are insufferable enough as it is.
28 2
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May 30, 2025 8:58am
- David Garrett
  
  CJ: I am with you 100% there…they get paid a King’s ransom to dispense justice and serve the needs of the community…many of them do neither of those things.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:08am
- Mike
  
  I don’t have a problem with honoring the most senior office holders in the country. It’s appropriate recognition of the status and achievement of individuals.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:09am
  - Taieri
    
    It’s appropriate recognition of the status and achievement of individuals
    ———
    
    And what precisely did the latest Dame Grand Companion of NZOM achieved? Other than her own aggrandizement of course…
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:51am
    - R
      
      Facilitated the slide of NZ toward Marxist servitude and misery.
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:29am
  - Keith White
    
    Status is not the same as achievement.
    
    Status alone is not good grounds for recognition.
    
    Achievement is, for example, lovingly raising a disabled child to be the very best they can be.
    
    Achievement is is caring for a spouse with dementia around the clock for a decade or more until advanced age means you can’t, and then visiting them every day for the rest of your or their life, even when they do not recognise you.
    
    Status is a BS reason for getting a public honouring.
    
    Consistent honourable behaviour is a very rare achievement.
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:25am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Yep
      
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      May 30, 2025 3:40pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Even if they are useless sacks of it Mike?
    
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    May 30, 2025 8:14pm
Yvette

The Hauraki-Waikato MP told the Morning Shift podcast that she was shocked to be handed David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill, that had just been read on its first reading in the House on Thursday – days before it had been initially planned to be read.
“I wasn’t even supposed to do that,” Maipi-Clarke said of the haka on the podcast.
She said Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi was originally supposed to rip the bill and start the haka, but instead, the bill was handed to her.
“But I knew I was going to get landed with something on that day and we’ve been prepping for about a year or so.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/hana-rāwhiti-maipi-clarke-and-the-haka-that-s-been-seen-700-million-times-by-a-worldwide-audience/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Why exactly did Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi hand the honour of ripping up David Seymour’s Treaty Principles Bill to Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, and in what way was that in keeping with ‘tikanga’, or ‘rangatiratanga’ – the actions of a ‘chief’ or even co-leader?
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May 30, 2025 9:06am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Possible reasons:
  
  1. Hana Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke is of higher status in Maoridom than Rawiri Waititi
  
  2. TPM is desperate to keep Tainui-Waikato support
  
  3. Rawiri Waititi likes to get females doing all the dirty work
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:30am
  - Keith White
    
    Mutual Assured Stupidity is also a diagnosis that would be high on the differential list for that combo…
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:26am
  - pdm
    
    Most likely 3 Maggy.
    
    Rawiri likes the kudos but, it is evident he is not a man for doing `the hard yards’.
    
    So lets delegate to the Junior wee girl – she will get the most sympathy and lenient treatment.
    
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    May 30, 2025 11:05am
    - Yvette
      
      A video on Instagram refers to concern of possible bullying of the youngest membe,Hana Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, involved by the Privileges Committee. Since “we’ve been prepping for about a year or so” why did they not consider this before hand?
      https://www.instagram.com/reel/DH8FU3fyO3g/
      
      Bullshitometer lights up red
      
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      May 30, 2025 1:09pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Their antics are not genuine and are designed solely to gain attention.
  Rather like insecure kids in the playground.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:30am
  - kowtow
    
    Not genuine ! Check your ( insert here) privilige .
    
    Here’s a taste of ;
    “Metiria Stanton Turei is a senior law lecturer at the University of Otago and a former Green Party MP and co-leader” take on it , behind paywall in ODT .
    
    “When Judith Collins accused Te Pāti Māori MPs of a “lack of civility” for their haka in Parliament she drew 185 years of colonial racism down upon their heads.
    
    It was grotesque. And entirely expected.”
    
    ………
    
    “It was vengence, not fairness.”
    
    “Her public statements about Te Pāti Māori and the excessive sentence belong to a colonial bias that maliciously targets the Māori presence in the House.”
    
    “The government has well-signalled its intention to force a confrontation with Māori in the Parliament ”
    ……..
    
    “That single act of indigenous strength has led literally millions of people to support Māori cultural expression that challenges colonial violence.”
    
    “Without some change, the committee will continue as an arm of the state’s assimilationist agenda, punishing those who dare to be Māori in that place.”
    
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    May 30, 2025 11:01am
    - Gravelroad
      
      “That single act of indigenous strength has led literally millions of people to support Māori cultural expression that challenges colonial violence.”
      
      Any evidence or proof ? Apart from orchestrated marches in Wellington?
      Am not seeing such support where I live.
      I am one of “the millions of people “ though, who have concerns about the levels of unchecked violence – especially violence against women and children in some more special communities.
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:55am
- Clyde
  
  The Otago Daily Times has a regular column from Meteiria Turei – remember her? The past co-leader of the Watermelons, benefit fraudster and now a senior law lecturer at the University of Maoriness (also known as Robertson House). This morning’s column is a huge rant about the proposed sanctions against the racist party. What intrigues me – her rants certainly don’t – is just how a person with limited law knowledge gets to be a senior lecturer when the criteria for such a position have not been met. Could it be that amongst the other lecturers is Jacinta Ruru (author of He Puapua amongst other things). Wish I could post the offending opnion piece but it is paywalled.
  
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  May 30, 2025 11:33am
  - pdm
    
    Does Turei still owe Taxpayers for some overpaid DPB back in the days before she became an MP.
    
    Interest must be accruing.
    
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    May 30, 2025 1:31pm
    - Paulus
      
      Yes !
      
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      May 30, 2025 2:45pm
Ghost

My god, it was carried out by a former royal marine.

The alleged driver of a car that ploughed into a crowd at Liverpool’s victory parade and injured 79 people has been charged with seven offences against six victims.

Paul Doyle will appear in court for the first time on Friday and has been remanded into police custody after being arrested following the scenes of devastation that broke out on Water Street on Monday.

Article
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May 30, 2025 9:15am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Many soccer fans hate Liverpool with a passion, I would have thought it was not hard to realise this would have been a pissed off opposing fan, did you really think it would be a Muslim?
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:21am
  - Ghost
    
    No one has ever said it was a Muslim. The police were very fast to rule it out, and I’d suggest you follow their advice and not jump to conclusions now.
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:27am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      I realise this, but if it was not Muslim then what else did you think, it will be an opposing soccer fan, not hard to work out the minute it happened
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:03am
      - Ghost
        
        Unlike you g I always wait for the facts to come out. Perhaps you could follow the police request and not make up what you think is behind it
        
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        May 30, 2025 10:18am
      - plc
        
        Yet again you spout ill-informed opinion.
        
        The video evidence and police disclosure strongly points to a driver high on drugs who moved into the wrong place, was confronted and had his car attacked and then panicked.
        
        It was quite clearly not a premeditated attack, rather a rapidly escalating situation that got out of control with tragic circumstances.
        
        He was from West Derby…….so effectively “one of our own”
        
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        May 30, 2025 12:30pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        PLC get into a car high on drugs and you are entirely responsible for any evil that ensues from that fateful dickhead choice.
        
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        May 30, 2025 8:16pm
- David Garrett
  
  Ghost: Has to be a screw loose there somewhere…I’m picking an insanity defence…assuming they have correctly identified the driver, what else is there?
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:23am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    what else is there?
    
    Drugs, booze.
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:32am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Soccer hooliganism
      
      3 1
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      May 30, 2025 10:03am
      - plc
        
        Tosh
        
        4 0
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        May 30, 2025 12:31pm
  - Ghost
    
    suspicion of attempted murder and taking drugs
    
    Article
    
    7 1
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    May 30, 2025 9:35am
    - James Stephenson
      
      He hasn’t been charged with attempted murder. Wounding with intent, GBH with intent and dangerous driving.
      
      I’d also point out that nobody died, so he didn’t hit the crowd at speed, it appears he was in the crowd and then drove with people in the way. Wrong place, wrong time and panicked when his car was attacked? It’s as plausible an explanation as any.
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:59am
  - Graeme Hall
    
    Hoped for a short cut by following an ambulance up a street and got caught up in the crowd trying to get through? That was a supposition from a UK commentator on ZB. Traffic is so diabolical in parts of the UK people tend to take any risk to get somewhere faster.
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:40am
  - Jethrod
    
    PTSD?
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:44am
  - MCōs
    
    I don’t think there’ll be any doubt about the driver.
    Motivation may be difficult to pin down, but there’s some bad tempered people in this world. I expect it’ll all come out, but I’ve never seen anyone get so riled up over sporting tribalism in NZ.
    
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    May 30, 2025 9:48am
    - Skippytony
      
      I’d assumed on the basis of exactly no evidence that the driver had somehow found himself um, in the way of the parade, possibly as a result of following an ambulance in the traffic jam.
      
      In the ensuing chaos, if some of the liverpudlians had, in their uniquely charming way pointed out the errors the driver had made, the driver may have been making a poorly executed attempt at an escape.
      I saw a similar thing in Sydney once when a guy with flags of the opposing team on his car made the mistake of trying to inch through a pedestrian crossing as hundreds of opposing fans were crossing the road after the game. This escalated in seconds to dozens of people attacking the car, kicking panels and trying to break windows. The driver clearly panicked (as he thought he was about to get the crap kicked out of him) and floored the accelerator and bounced about twenty supporters as he tried to get away. Just luck no one was killed that day.
      
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      May 30, 2025 10:35am
    - Jethrod
      
      Oh don’t you remember 1981?
      
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      May 30, 2025 11:40am
      - Flossie
        
        That was more political than sport based.
        
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        May 30, 2025 12:40pm
  - mandk
    
    Yep, the driver is probably a deranged Tranmere Rovers fan.
    
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    May 30, 2025 11:08am
- Blog-aholic
  
  PTSD….its the go to in NZ.
  
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  May 30, 2025 9:31am
imalwaysright

We have kids arriving at college who can’t read and write.

Is there a department in the 4200 person Ministry that investigates why, and, in particular, who were the childrens’ teachers before college?

If we have deadbeat primary teachers passing these kids up the conveyor belt then surely they should be found and dismissed.
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May 30, 2025 9:29am
- Jack5
  
  Universities for a few years have hired remedial teachers.
  
  Some of their work is to help some students from countries that don’t have English as the dominant language. Also, even decades ago some of the best university maths teachers struggled with their English.
  
  New Zealand’s low maths standards worry me more than student writing skills.
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:48pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY38dBRbfjg
If You Laugh, You’re Conservative PT.37.
Today, we’re reacting to more hilarious non-woke videos, comedians, liberals, and memes that will make conservatives laugh. Are these videos actually offensive? Comment on which video made you laugh the most, and consider subscribing to stay posted when I release new videos! Have a blessed day!
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May 30, 2025 9:40am
sungsamning

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/trump-administration-to-cut-off-visa-access-for-foreign-officials-complicit-in-censoring-americans/
Trump Administration Cuts Off Visa Access for Foreign Officials ‘Complicit’ in Censoring Americans.
Secretary of State Marco Rubio on Wednesday announced new visa restrictions on foreign authorities who are found to be “complicit” in censoring Americans.

“For too long, Americans have been fined, harassed, and even charged by foreign authorities for exercising their free speech rights,” Rubio wrote in a post on X.
“Today, I am announcing a new visa restriction policy that will apply to foreign officials and persons who are complicit in censoring Americans. Free speech is essential to the American way of life – a birthright over which foreign governments have no authority,” he added.
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May 30, 2025 9:41am
vand

But we don’t honour the Europeans “For service to New Zealanders of European descent”, do we? And if our honouree would restrict his or her efforts to Europeans only would he or she get a gong?

Quite right- it is patronising to Maori -treating them as children who needed a special aunty or uncle to “do gooding” to his or her kin
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May 30, 2025 9:48am
- mandk
  
  It’s a manifestation of the fact that there is brown privilege in NZ.
  
  We also have budgets where, in addition to spending that is for all NZers, regardless of race, we also have funding that is reserved for services only to Māori.
  
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  May 30, 2025 12:38pm
Bridgenag

COVID-19: 51% Suspect Heart Damage From Vaccine (Rasmussen)
The Worm is turning.

“In my substack essay endorsing President Trump I had acknowledged that I was not aligned with his position on the genetic vaccine products, but believed that, on balance, he was by far the superior Presidential candidate. But I wanted to understand what would likely transpire regarding these gene therapy-based products that I had called to be withdrawn from the market years before.”……

“The Senator’s proposed strategy revolved around what he anticipated would be staged disclosure of key government documents and correspondences that would prove to (and move) US Citizens to support legislative reversal of the laws and policies that gave rise to the COVID crisis lies and travesties, and what he refers to as the COVID cartel.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/covid-19-51-suspect-heart-damage?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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May 30, 2025 10:08am
- Keith White
  
  Related: Japan’s health minister publicly announced that the Covid shots caused his cancer. That is the Ultimate Admission in that (Japanese) culture…
  
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  May 30, 2025 10:28am
  - MCōs
    
    I can find no indication that the current Health Minister, Keizo Takemi, or his predecessor has cancer
    
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    May 30, 2025 2:56pm
- newview
  
  Half of Americans think some people suffered damage from COVID vac.
  What does that even mean. Useful data. BS.
  
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  May 30, 2025 1:03pm
Sparrow

I see another member of the Podium of Truth is abandoning NZ. This time to Victoria. The members all seemed to have picked up well paid jobs after telling porkies to the NZ public.
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May 30, 2025 10:50am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Funny. Victoria is about as f’d up as NZ and is also heading down the S bend.
  
  But yes, plenty of cosy over paid jobs for quasi-Marxists there.
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:20pm
sirknz

It isn’t the law’s fault, it is their parents fault.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360706681/childrens-commissioners-concern-kiwi-kids-told-they-dont-belong-here

If your parents are overstayers, they are breaking the law and you do not have the automatic right to live here.

I still fall short in my hate for the MSM.
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May 30, 2025 11:07am
imalwaysright

Luxon pays tribute to a Kiwi killed in Ukraine.

Has NZ declared war against Ukraine or Russia ?
If not, why was a kiwi there, and why is the NZ Prime Minister giving credence to this person?
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May 30, 2025 12:05pm
- Eastlander
  
  As New Zealand is a party to the conflict, it is appropriate to honour our casualties.
  
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  May 30, 2025 1:56pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Its not a party, and “we” don’t have casualties.
    He’s an adventure tourist and he won.
    
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    May 30, 2025 7:07pm
    - Eastlander
      
      Supplying equipment to them and training their soldiers. Some of our troops could be in the country in an advisory capacity. The government could have stopped him from going but didn’t.
      
      We’re a party alright.
      
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      May 30, 2025 8:55pm
- DistantObserver
  
  What’s fascinating about this is he was turned to human mince a month ago.
  But MSM only running with it now as news.
  
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  May 31, 2025 11:32am
rouppe

About time charges flow from thuggery on the rugby field.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/auckland-club-rugby-player-elbowed-punched-in-head-by-opposition-police-investigate/NPVFKC7Q4FANZG3EY4TB6NOV3Q/
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May 30, 2025 12:35pm
sirknz

Prepare for a cold winter everybody, NIWA is expecting it to be warmer than average.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360707466/warmer-average-winter-forecast-niwa

I don’t trust Niwa to give me accurate stats on last winter’s averages just like I don’t trust the Met Service to give me yesterday’s weather with any accuracy.
11 0
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May 30, 2025 12:37pm
Pope Punctilious II

Overheard at MBIE:

“Back in a moment. Just going for a leak.”

(OK, I confess. I pinched it from The Daily Blog)
9 0
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May 30, 2025 12:41pm
BeaB

RNZ make a huge song and dance about people declaring their interests. If they are centre right. Their favourite go-to principal, Pat Newman, is a well-known Labour supporter and former candidate, a Labour party office holder in the north and a union activist. They never declare his ‘interests’.
But we are meant to swallow that he supported truancy fines under Labour and oppose them under National because in a few short years he has suddenly realised there may be underlying reasons for truancy. Nothing at all to do with his politics.
Pull the other one.
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May 30, 2025 12:53pm
Keith White

I think it has been asked before, in fact I’m sure it has, but it would be good if we were all identified when we uptick or downtick a comment. Perhaps “good” is the wrong adjective; – I think it would be hugely entertaining!

I’m quite happy that people know (if they can even be bothered knowing haha) if it is moi that downticked them or upticked them – but it’s too much extra work for the moderators to keep making a comment that “I upticked you” or “I downticked you.”
4 4
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May 30, 2025 2:01pm
Ra Henare

Regret to advise.
No weather report from the Kingdom of Wonder today.
I am spending a few days in a communist Country.

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, which is a crazy almost 1st world city(its the buildings that give the game away-Lots of older houses etc).

But the medical facilities are great.
Went to a hospital(walkup) 4pm Wednesday, 40 minute wait to see a doctor. Sore neck.

Recommended MRI scan.
Following morning SCAN done. Scanning starts at 6:15am.
Results, advisory consultation done by 8:30am
Meds prescribed. On our way by 9am

Cost. An eye watering 2,400,00 Vietnamese Dong.
Hang on…
$154 NZD.

PS. Locals could have all that for free if they bought Government health insurance at
$84 NZD pa for 1st person in family.
Reducing for each additional member until 6th member of family free.
Remember, family includes ALL living at one address. Grandma/Grandad

Think I will vote communism at next General Election. As long as it’s the Vietnamese implementation.

Communism at top/government level. Medical/Schools/Police

Capitalism everything underneath
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May 30, 2025 3:20pm
- greybeard
  
  “Went to a hospital(walkup) 4pm Wednesday, 40 minute wait to see a doctor. Sore neck.”
  There is something so wrong with this article I can’t articulate it: it just comes across as some sort of fairy story.
  
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  May 30, 2025 5:35pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Certainly a fairy story if you live in New Zealand
    
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    May 30, 2025 10:48pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Ra,
  
  Good info. Very interesting.
  Perhaps you could do a weekly post about life there. Thankyou
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:44pm
Ghost

Labour must be desperate, the cryogenic chamber has been opened again.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360708410/helen-clark-says-trump-and-musks-cuts-will-cost-millions-lives-and-yes-was-nazi-salute
6 1
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May 30, 2025 6:13pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360708428/cycleway-tacks-cause-havoc-among-wellington-bike-riders
Bike shop owners profit from cyclists whose tyres are punctured by tacks in the roadway………………
Lucky them.
Do “journalists” never think for themselves? Explore various scenarios? Let their imagination run wild and concoct all sorts of possible explanations ?
No.
4 0
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May 30, 2025 7:00pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Qui bono?
  
  3 0
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  May 30, 2025 8:10pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Some nasty nut in Melbourne was also spreading tacks on a popular road used by cyclists.
  
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  May 30, 2025 8:23pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360708430/police-recover-365-pieces-stolen-pounamu-west-coast

“While Ngāi Tahu members can fossick in rivers with a permit, the individuals involved did not have legal permission.”

I think we can reach the right conclusion here: someone has been trying to rip-off their own “iwi” !
5 0
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May 30, 2025 7:07pm
- Jethrod
  
  How amazing and unexpected!
  
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  May 31, 2025 8:36am

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