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October 20, 2026 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 October 2026

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Given the likelihood that TOP, a party with zero parliamentary experience, will exceed 5%, I wonder whether the Right Block should consider entering a confidence & supply agreement with them.

The purpose of this is to buttress the Budget vote.

Would TOP consider this, ie no representation in Cabinet? I think that they might, given their stunning lack of experience. They would be free to hold fast to their principles while learning the ways of government. It would give them the opportunity to demonstrate that they could swing either way, always important for a minor party seeking the kingmaker’s mantle. And, it would mean that they wouldn’t be bound to the odious individuals in the current Left Block.

From Chris Luxon’s perspective, he’d be able to say that in not going into coalition with TOP, he’s kept his word to rule them out of government.
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October 20, 2026 8:05am
- septic skeptic
  
  Sorry but that sounds like a particularly daft idea to me. TOP has core policies that place it about on par with the Greens – just short of communism. It will be very bad indeed if this party is able to embed itself into some sort of kingmaker role. Far better to let LGTPMT form a government and then the complete muppets that voted for the catastrophe can enjoy the full benefit. Sadly, they will take us with them – unless we head offshore at least temporarily. But just maybe, then we will elect a government prepared to roll back all this crap and an electorate prepared to give them a couple of terms to do so.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:35pm
- Paulus
  
  I cannot find their List potentials before subjecting that ?
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:35pm
- Paulus
  
  Lees-Galloway former failed Labour Minister wants a job, besides being the only paid Opps Party one, and that he wants back in Parliament and will be if th Opps Party get over 5%.
  It is suggested that as only paid Executive he is not at all popular.
  
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  October 20, 2026 2:10pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Look at the possible TOP MPS.
  Then tell me they will go with National.
  yea right. (No yea definately left)
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/361047378/six-new-faces-qiulae-wong-could-bring-parliament-opportunity
  
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  October 20, 2026 5:06pm
Yvette

Two MMP votes: one for an Electorate MP, one for a ~~Party~~ Coalition
If Election results give a Labour Coalition just enough seats to govern, perhaps by a margin of two seats, and the Maori Party win four Electorate Seats as many anticipate, but by the latest poll are at only 2 percent party vote, will that mean the Labour Left will win on a feature of MMP to accomodate an unusual circumstance, but not a planned creation of that circumstance?

And to take advantage of the Maori Party taking advantage of the MMP system, how much of Maori Party policy will Labour concede, willingly or not?
What will either party progress without an actual mandate to do so?

________________
Google answer to “Maori Party policy on the Treaty for the 2026 Election?” –
Key policy components of the Maori Party are an independent Te Tiriti Commission (able to halt Cabinet decisions that seriously violate Treaty principles), binding Waitangi Tribunal findings (a change from advisory rulings to legally binding upon the Crown), Te Tiriti entrenchment (enshrines and entrenches Te Tiriti o Waitangi directly into New Zealand’s lawmaking and constitutional framework), and Mātike Mai Fund (a $220 million fund over four years to resource constitutional transformation work and properly implement the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, UNDRIP, within the party’s first 100 days in government)

• On last week’s poll, Labour, the Greens and Opportunity would have 62 seats combined. In the scenario above, that would leave them two seats short of an overall majority.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2026/10/20/analysis-could-extra-seats-in-parliament-decide-the-election/
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October 20, 2026 8:14am
- septic skeptic
  
  Apparently National had by far the most money for their election campaign. Aside from the tired old billboard campaign, I have seen almost nothing from them. Maybe it has mostly gone to broadcast TV which I don’t watch. Literally zero.
  Are they shifting towards focusing on their marginal electorates and turning off this traditional “two ticks blue”?
  My guess is that they are not and are happy enough for Labour to take their turn – so long as the uniparty duopoly is maintained. I hope someone can correct me??
  
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  October 20, 2026 8:49am
  - Prince
    
    In Wellington there are a succession of tired, boring radio ads for National candidates who have no chance of winning.
    Promising ‘bedder Health, bedder communidy, blah blah’ Could be any party. Just a waste of money.
    
    National need a clear stance around 2 things:
    Economy – move to surplus in next 3 years, then pay down debt, salvage the country from the mess Labour left.
    Education – continue the rescue job. More charter schools, better teachers, a syllabus that works for our kids. Get them back in school and learning.
    
    Tie them together as future-focussed.
    Be determined, be positive, be aspirational. We are turning things around where it matters. Don’t step back 3 years.
    
    Oh, and ‘cost of living crisis ? Here are annual food cost increases over the last 6 years.
    • September 2026: +2.4% (annualised rate)
    • 2025 (December 2025): +4.0%
    • 2024 (December 2024): +1.5%
    • 2023 (December 2023): +4.8%
    • 2022 (December 2022): +11.3%
    • 2021 (December 2021): +4.5%
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:46pm
    - RoboRob
      
      Interesting. I’m in Christchuch and I hear Labour, Act and NZF adds on Newstalk ZB through I heart radio, I assume I hear the Auckland station. I also see those three parties adds online and hear them during podcasts. I listen to and from work (~12 min bike ride) and sometimes when I go out walking in the evenings. I also listen to the Sunday sports show when gardening. I have yet to hear a single National add. My wife says she has seen one on TV (I haven’t) and says she sees a lot of them online she thinks on ticktok.
      
      Maybe I am just unlucky / lucky, as the only National adds I have seen was a youtube link sent to me from a friend, and a glimpse of one at half time in the rugby. The youtube add was well produced but it was essentially ‘vote for us to stop Labour’. As I continually say, a campaign based on ‘vote me to keep the other guy out’ rarely works, see the Dems campaigns against Trump.
      
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      October 20, 2026 4:42pm
      - RoboRob
        
        Breaking news. Heard a national add on the radio on the way home! It was positive too!
        
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        October 20, 2026 6:41pm
- Damocles11
  
  Nothing to stop the right Coalition from winning, just rusted-on habitual ‘2 ticks National’ voters who can’t do the math or refuse to change their fixed routine.
  Some people now suspect that National would rather lose the election than give up any more leverage in Coalition negotiations. Unfortunately many of us cannot escape to Hawaii or the continental USA, we will be stuck here with the most far left government this country has ever seen.
  
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  October 20, 2026 10:02am
  - Ra Henare
    
    escape to Cambodia, where life is good, warm, and sunny.
    Waaay less expensive than USA!!!! (or NZ or Aus)
    
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    October 20, 2026 5:12pm
- Paulus
  
  Bloody Frightening !
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:36pm
Scott

Will Kieran MacAnulty get back into parliament? DPF in his list of Labour Party candidates has MacAnultys chances as “leans”, not “safe” , not “likely” but “leans”.
Now for my own part I wouldn’t shed too many tears if the Wairarapa chose to elect another candidate to represent them.

But I think I may have a sign? A sign that MacAnulty is going to be reelected.
Last week I was driving in my car and stopped at a T intersection. Right in front of me were not one but two posters of Kieran. One by himself saying how he fought for the trains and he fought for the hospital and he is fighting for you. The other had Kieran with his best mate ever Chris Hipkins.

But it did not end there. No sirree. Just then a car come up to the intersection to turn right. And it was a car with Kieran MacAnulty’s picture on the side! And driving the car was Kieran himself!
So not one, not two, not three, but four MacAnultys at the same time at one intersection! What are the odds of that?
So is this a sign? A portent, an omen?

Is MacAnulty going to be reelected? Does this also mean that Labour will be elected? Nooo!! 😧
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October 20, 2026 8:29am
- Boy Geoff
  
  Not with my vote!
  
  I know the Wairarapa, being resident near two consummate – but different variant – Chardonnay socialists.
  
  Both are middle-aged women; one in an immaculately and expensively renovated suburban home with pristine garden—even refers to her tradies as the ‘hired help’ without any hint of self-awareness.
  
  The other one desperately tries to model herself on Dame Anne Salmond, down to the black outfits and long grey hair. She refuses to shop anywhere but Moore Wilson for her groceries (be interesting to see how she’d cope with the Greens’ supermarket policy if it came to fruition).
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:55pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    They sound like complete wankers.
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:09pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The four riders of the Apocalypse?
  
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  October 20, 2026 2:54pm
Quail

Another item of interest today is the unexpected two billion $ trade deficit that has just been released.
( expected was 0.8 bn)
Post election the effects of this could mean substantial austerity for all NZ. Increased interest rates etc and all that goes with that.
Maybe this would be a good election to lose?
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October 20, 2026 8:52am
- RW Capitalist
  
  70% rise in price of oil import costs???
  Maybe we could have continued exploration?
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:00am
- Tarquin North
  
  Hipkins, Luxon, the Greens and TPM appear to be giving that their best shot.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:01am
- Yvette
  
  Quail – Maybe this would be a good election to lose?
  
  Maybe for the Nation Coalition – good to loose – but what about general New Zealanders?
  Already part of the economic problem is unwarranted Labour Bloc covid spending and what would a combination of struggling to put food on the table and gas in the tank do with the social division the possible kingmaker Maori Party and Labour (they made us do it) foist upon us?
  Be careful of what ~~you~~ National wish for.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:02am
  - R
    
    The obstinence of the MARXIST Labour orientated Public Servants, drawing the chain and in many cases dimple ignoring the will of the Coalition has delayed the progress towards a better lifestyle and lower cost of living for ALL NZ’ers
    
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    October 20, 2026 9:26am
  - Quail
    
    Yvette,
    You are absolutely right,
    NZ and it’s people can not afford to take that attitude.
    Politicians ,on the other hand, it is hard to put much past some of them.
    
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    October 20, 2026 9:28am
  - Gravelroad
    
    @Yvette-
    No matter what happens at the election, National will be blamed for the current state of the economy.
    People who are “struggling to put food on the table”etc don’t care about what damage was done by Labour during the Covid situation- that’s in the past when they were looked after by kind Jacinda.
    That was then, this is now.
    I dread the thought of being manipulated and ruled over by a Labour coalition of racists, fanatics and activists.
    But the left is promising to dish out more coin and free stuff – and many, many people do not know or care where that is going to come from, so long as they receive it.
    And National seems to have no understandable answer to that.
    
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    October 20, 2026 9:33am
    - Blog-aholic
      
      Socialism is fantastic until you run out of other peoples money……
      
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      October 20, 2026 9:56am
    - Mr Nobody NZ
      
      What amazes me is how easily people forget that, aside from international factors, many of our current economic challenges stem from the previous Government’s erratic economic policies and excessive spending. Equally surprising is that so many voters now seem to believe that the very people who helped create these problems are the ones best placed to solve them.
      
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      October 20, 2026 10:08am
    - Handyman
      
      Labour in government will still be blaming National at the 2029 election. ” 3 long years”.
      
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      October 20, 2026 11:01am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      National are trying to land a few punches but Hipkins is doing a good* job of distancing himself from the mistakes of the past. The latest being the $2.75m payment from the victims of crime pool to the Mongrel Mob rehab program – it was Jacinda, Grant, Kris etc – not my mistake and we definitely won’t do that next time.
      
      * good = winning over the gullible, short of memory voters with a soft spot for laser.
      
      National need to have a list of the mistakes of the past to wheel out, perhaps Kiwibloggers can help add to the list:
      
      1. Better healthcare under labour, yeah right. $1billion created an additional 2 beds under labour.
      
      2. Labour tough on crime, yeah right . They funded the gangs and demoralised the police.
      
      3. Labour driving education standards into the ground and promising to do the same if they win the election.
      
      4. Labour recklessly printed money and caused runaway inflation leaving our cupboard bare to soften the impacts of current international issues.
      
      5. Labours trustworthiness on the economy is like the scorpion and the NZ voter the frog. They will promise to be better next time but when we are halfway across the river they will sting us to death and we will all go down together.
      
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      October 20, 2026 12:52pm
      - KKNZ2025
        
        “National need to have a list of the mistakes of the past to wheel out,”
        
        Here you go:
        https://laboursfailures.com/
        
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        October 20, 2026 1:30pm
    - Philview
      
      The media are putting out stories about the health system that headline as if they happened this week but in the fine print were years ago. “Healthcare Crisis: Man walks into hospital with sore elbow and has leg amputated” I bothered to read the story and near the end it happened in 2021.
      
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      October 20, 2026 1:26pm
- Boy Geoff
  
  Just the situation for economic maestro Swarbrick and her suite of policies, I would have thought.
  
  Marama will be given the perfect platform to say ka kite to Aotearoa’s greedy business people!
  
  Party vote Green!
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:02am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Is that annually or month??
  
  Was there a large item imported in that month like an aircraft???
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:15am
- RW Capitalist
  
  $2.3b increase in oil import cost. factored in, ap[pears to be the discrepancy.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:55am
- Burtland
  
  the effects will be “substantial austerity for all NZ”
  
  no one can sell more austerity to NZ – there will only be more money printing
  
  more austerity will only come after the collapse
  
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  October 20, 2026 10:50am
- imalwaysright
  
  The blokes and blokettes, who run the Superannuation fund, just made a 14% gain.
  Shouldn’t we elect them to Government?
  
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  October 20, 2026 2:12pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    7.1%// of that is the fall in NZD/USD.
    Remembering a lot of the super fund INVESTMENTS (50%) is in USD.
    
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    October 20, 2026 5:20pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      The 7.1% fall in the NZD also makes it 7.1% harder to repay our debt…?
      
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      October 20, 2026 5:37pm
RW Capitalist

I see from Hipkins on TV3, that they will continue with Nationals R16 re social media.
EXCEPT they don’t have a good record with this follow through.
I call it the “me too”, Labour movement.
Take the last time I heard it.
Melling over bridge.
Ginnie Anderson PROMISED that Labour would build it, after Chris Bishop made it an election issue.
It did not progress one inch under Labour, but is now being built.
Action and words Chippie…action and words…
So this time lets vote for the organ grinder, instead of his monkey (Chippie).
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October 20, 2026 8:58am
- Philview
  
  The reported ban is slightly misleading as they have indicated that woke social media platforms like Bluesky are still ok to use.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:30pm
RoboRob

Election 2026 live: New poll puts Opportunity and Parliament on a knife-edge
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/politics_election-2026/2031337/election-2026-live-new-poll-puts-opportunity-and-parliament-on-a-knife-edge

Lead story on our state owned media. So I go looking to see the poll results and find….. Nothing. This is the entire story … ‘A new poll has Parliament on knife-edge, with the Opportunity party narrowly making it in as kingmaker.

The Post/Freshwater Strategy poll out this morning has neither a National nor Labour coalition with enough seats to govern.’

So this is just more pushing TOP plus the total uselessness of not actually giving the actual poll results, just their biased summary. WTF is going on? 1News was just as bad, they have https://www.1news.co.nz/2026/10/13/poll-hipkins-and-luxon-now-neck-and-neck-opportunity-on-track-for-10-mps/ So a week old poll.

Had to go searching for the actual results…

Labour: 28.7%
National: 27.6%
Opportunity: 5.4% (just above the 5% threshold)
Greens: 14.3%
NZ First: 11.8%
ACT: 9.0%
Te Pāti Māori: 2.0%

From ODT
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October 20, 2026 9:25am
- KKNZ2025
  
  “Asked about the possibility of coalition talks dragging past Christmas, McCulloch noted the irony of Luxon being quite happy to put new restrictions on voting in order to speed up the process, and yet not willing to put any limits around his own negotiations.”
  
  McCulloch is the RNZ deputy political editor. That is a politically anti Luxon biased comment wilfully ignoring the close election outcome uncertainty he’s directly referring to in this article & the likely extended negotiations required of multiple parties to form a govt under MMP.
  
  He should be sacked.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:45am
  - RoboRob
    
    An appalling statement to make. Of course political negotiations cant be restricted. They depend entirely on the makeup of parliament as chosen by the voters. Then you get to the clear anti National part of the attack, sadly par for the course.
    
    I will add, National had an opportunity to deal with this, the decided not to. It’s not as if Winston or Seymour love the MSM and were blocking them. Actually I think Winston has openly raised getting rid of state owned media.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:13pm
  - Isobar
    
    To be fair, NZ was kept waiting far too long last time for the negotiations. Everything went on pause for weeks.
    
    Personally i do think it is a fair question to ask, because last time it was a joke.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:15pm
    - KKNZ2025
      
      The 2023 negotiations took ~7 weeks, 3 parties. The 1996 negotiations took 2 months, 2 parties. In neither did the sky fall due to the time it took, it could be a +ve given how much a mess govts make when they actually start work.
      
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      October 20, 2026 4:29pm
      - Isobar
        
        Did the sky fall in in, no. Did important economic and political decisions get delayed and did opportunities get missed, absolutely.
        
        Business and the general public want to get on with life after an election. They dont want to be held to ransom by highly paid politicians deciding how to hand out the chocolates to themselves.
        
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        October 20, 2026 11:18pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yes, I heard that on Morning Report and thought the same as you, KKNZ.
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:57pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  My view
  So Opportunity are actually falling and could be below 5% by the election at this rate.
  This poll is taken by a rabidly Labour organization in a “safe” labour area.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:49am
  - RoboRob
    
    Agree. I expected this poll (like what used to be Talbert Mills) to have Labour and TOP higher. That they don’t is very telling.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:14pm
  - Isobar
    
    Sure, we can tell ourselves fiction about how the poll was conducted if it makes us feel better.
    
    But it doesnt for a second change the situation the coaltition have found themselves in. They should be well ahead at this point. The fact they even have to rely on the hope TOP might drop below 5% is telling in itself. They should never have gotten themselves in this place to start off with.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:20pm
- Colville
  
  National at 27.6%… so 33 seats in a 120 seat house.
  How many more electorates than that should they win?
  
  Unless its 6 I dont think they will get there.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:51am
  - RoboRob
    
    Maurice Williamson has national winning 40, so thats 7.
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:43pm
MCōs

The Maori Party will never be king makers or powerbrokers, because their votes in parliament will never align with the current coalition of Nat/Act/NZ First for obvious reasons.
They’ll vote with a Labour lead coalition because that’s what’s expected of them, even if they’re not part of that coalition
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October 20, 2026 9:28am
imalwaysright

Odd timing that Brian Tamaki, who publically criticized Modi, appears in court for it the day before the Indian trade agreement is activated.
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October 20, 2026 9:38am
Paulus

Am I wrong in that I see from an extensive Herald article that the Opportunity Party is in one contentious disarray in that they have no real policies and have the Confucius saying “If you do not know where you are going any road will take there”.
It also appears that Lees-Galloway – former disgraced Labour Canbinet Minister is desperate to have a real job, although being paid by the so called Party, wants to return to Parliament.
If they get over the 5% then he will certainly making sure to get back there as part of the Maori controlled Left Coalition.
Who else ?
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October 20, 2026 9:39am
- Frank the tank
  
  Nah a bit of a beat up. Sounds like a couple of precious people weren’t in the ‘cool’ crowd.
  
  That said if anyone thinks TOP isn’t like any of the other establishment parties in New Zealand then read the article. Sounds suspiciously like a landing ground for white corporate liberals that didn’t get selected on Labour/National/Greens party lists…….
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:58am
- cmm (semi-retired edition)
  
  We all know that the vast majority of journalists are going to be Green supporters.
  
  This makes me wonder whether the TOP hype up has been a sort of bait and switch to try to enhance Green votes.
  
  How this would work:
  * Get TOP out there to appeal to a bunch of disillusioned people who are otherwise non-voters.
  * Get them all keen on the idea of voting for change etc.
  * Then shank TOP in the media.
  * Those people will now be excited to vote and will vote Green because that’s the most appealing (most TOP-adjacent) option.
  
  Maybe I’m just bitter and twisted and see too much skulduggery – though if you look back on many historical events you end up realising you were naive and should have been far more skeptical.
  
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  October 20, 2026 12:01pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    “Then shank TOP in the media”.
    Better get on with it, time is passing by.
    And, people still claim in the polls that they are going to support TOP even though their vote catching “policies” of UBI, taxing old people out of their homes and “citizens assemblies” seem to have bitten the dust.
    What is left for them in the TOP manifesto (if they have one) to vote for?
    
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    October 20, 2026 12:35pm
- David George
  
  Confucius says “Man going nowhere is certain to get there”
  
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  October 20, 2026 2:34pm
- Steve Todd
  
  If they get over the 5% then he will certainly making sure to get back there as part of the Maori controlled Left Coalition.
  
  That is just nonsense, Paulus. Just as the election of List MPs is governed by law (see my response to pdm last Friday night, here, https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2026/10/tops_founder_opposes_their_own_tax_policy.html/comment-page-1#comment-3889525), so, too, is the filling of vacancies of seats of members elected from party lists.
  
  The process is set out in section 137 of the Electoral Act 1993. (See https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/87/en/latest/#DLM309474).
  
  Iain Lees-Galloway is not one of the forty candidates on the Party list submitted to the Electoral Commission by the Opportunity Party. Therefore, he cannot fill a future vacancy in a list seat won by Opportunity at the upcoming election.
  
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  October 20, 2026 3:08pm
MCōs

That TPM 2% is meaningless
So is the Nat 27.6%
It’s a measure of party votes, at least I suspect it is, and that’s thrown into chaos if they win a bumper number of electorate seats
Could conceivably be a monster sized parliament with several national MPs forced to resign to bring Willis, Lee, Goldsmith, Gerry, Bishop back in via by elections
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October 20, 2026 9:42am
- Frank the tank
  
  You really think a National MP will sacrifice their seat for any of those MPs silly enough to go list only or fight left-leaning seats…….
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:55am
  - MCōs
    
    Probably not in NZ, but something similar happened in Canada when Pierre Poilievre lost his seat and won a by election when someone in a uber-safe resigned.
    Mind you in NZ previously safe seats might not be so safe in such circumstances
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:59pm
- Colville
  
  Could conceivably be a monster sized parliament with several national MPs forced to resign to bring Willis, Lee, Goldsmith, Gerry, Bishop back in via by elections
  
  Bishop is the only one worth more than a pinch of goatshit.
  
  Can you imagine getting told you have to quit to get Gerry back in? LOL There would have to be a CEO job on $half mil in some QUANGO somewhere for that to happen..!!
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:56am
  - RoboRob
    
    Bishop has been pretty good around his portfolios, easily the second most productive Nat MP (after Stanford). He also seems a nice guy. However he is about as wet as they come and could easily be a Labour MP. I imagine he is also partially responsible for National lurching away from their core principles.
    
    I heard an interview with Ex Nat Andrew Bayly yesterday. https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/taxpayer_talk_bayly_superannuation. Another one who is anything but right wing. He actually argues that government is better with your money then you are (around savings). The Nats seem infested with them.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:22pm
- PeterTrentham
  
  If they are electorate seats they resign from you need a by election! Ain’t going to happen. I’m sure Willis has her CV out there already.
  
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  October 20, 2026 9:58am
- David Garrett
  
  MCos: an electorate MP cannot be forced to resign.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:16pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    A bit of arm-twisting from head office – “for the good of the party” and all that …. anything can happen. Betcha someone will resign for Willis …..
    
    1 6
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    October 20, 2026 1:35pm
    - MCōs
      
      The best outcome would be for Luxon to resign and Willis to lose the by election to Chris Penk
      
      2 2
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      October 20, 2026 3:09pm
cmm (semi-retired edition)

The Kyle Whorrall murder is absolutely shocking. It is really a step up from a normal murder.

I would say this is even a step up from Graeme Burton and Bailey Junior Kurariki and his accomplices murdering Michael Choy

5 teens, armed with machetes, with history of life-threatening violence, rob the guy then, for no reason other than “fun” hack him to death. Real Rwanda-genocide style butchery.

All these “kids” need to join Tarrant and Burton in the forever box. (Yes, I know that Burton is technically in a position where he might get paroled, but practically that is unlikely).

Our judicial system was really not designed to cope with this sort of criminal activity. It makes me wonder whether MPs actually consider the worst of the worst when they construct the legal system. Or do they only think about people that have lost their way and can be put back on the streets with a hug?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/kyle-whorrall-homicide-auckland-trial-begins-for-teens-accused-of-murdering-us-phd-student-at-meadowbank-bus-stop/TETIMMH6GVHAFKBXJQNVAASWQE/
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October 20, 2026 11:24am
- imalwaysright
  
  One good thing is the prosecutors insisting that all of the scumbags are guilty of murder because of their “joint plan to commit a robbery”.
  
  Maybe this could go some way to establishing a precedent to charge everyone in a house where an infant is tortured and murdered.
  
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  October 20, 2026 11:43am
  - cmm (semi-retired edition)
    
    I hope they don’t fold.
    
    Of course the common purpose doctrine should apply here. They all (or at least most of them had violent history). They were armed with machetes. They all got in the same car together to cause mayhem together.
    
    It might be different if 5 kids with a history of mugging went out to rob someone and, unbeknown to the others, one had a concealed knife which he whipped out and stabbed someone with. Then one might argue that they did not all have a common purpose to endanger life. But a machete? And not just one machete but many.
    
    And hacking someone to death with a machete is a special kind of brutal. Shooting someone, or even stabbing someone, is relatively clinical and civilized. Heck, even a swing with a baseball bat. But chopping someone up with a machete is just African-level savagery.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:33pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      The scenario in your second paragraph occurred in England, and they all were charged with murder.
      
      They call it ‘common enterprise’.
      
      Goldsmith’s electioneering proposal to remove the right to silence for kid killers would be better replaced with a Common Enterprise law applied to all crimes.
      
      It would also help destroy the gangs, assuming the State ever decided not to continue sanctioning domestic terrorism.
      
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      October 20, 2026 1:41pm
      - cmm (semi-retired edition)
        
        Here in NZ this is covered in Section 66(b) of the Crimes Act. aka Doctrine of Common Purpose
        
        “Where 2 or more persons form a common intention to prosecute any unlawful purpose, and to assist each other therein, each of them is a party to every offence committed by any one of them in the prosecution of the common purpose if the commission of that offence was known to be a probable consequence of the prosecution of the common purpose.”
        
        Not used enough, IMHO. It really does not matter which of the alleged scrotes actually swung the machete. They were all in this together.
        
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        October 20, 2026 1:58pm
- cmm (semi-retired edition)
  
  PS: Please sprinkle on “alleged” to taste.
  
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  October 20, 2026 11:54am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Will we ever find out their ethnicity?
    
    5 1
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    October 20, 2026 12:08pm
    - Colville
      
      Or tribal affiliations…?
      
      1 1
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      October 20, 2026 4:44pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Seems hard to believe 5 teens would hack up a random stranger just for kicks. Was that the requirement to gain their gang membership?
  
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  October 20, 2026 12:40pm
- Ian
  
  How come with a history of life threatening violence were these criminals were not dealt with harshly in the justice system before?
  
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  October 20, 2026 12:49pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    ‘Each defence lawyer urged jurors not to assume their client must be guilty based on past offences. Borich described the previous cases as “totally unrelated”.’–Article
    
    I thought previous offences weren’t referred to in a trial.
    
    Saying that, it is bizarre that a lawyer is asking the Jury to think his stabby, screw drivery, slashy, client wasn’t intending to take part in a murder…
    
    This should be a one day trial.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:20pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      The lawyer is doing his job – his personal views (like yours and mine) don’t come into it. That’s how it is and has always been …..
      
      1 3
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      October 20, 2026 7:06pm
- Philview
  
  I get the impression the media played down the violent brutality of this murder early on. Were the full facts not released back then?
  
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  October 20, 2026 6:40pm
Chris2

More evidence today of the NZ Herald’s obvious political bias. In reporting this morning on the massive injuries suffered by an attack on an Australia MP it quotes various other Australian MP’s.

It described the Liberal Party leader thus: “Conservative opposition leader Angus Taylor ..”.

And it described One Nation Leader Pauline Hanson as: “far-right Senator Pauline Hanson…”

The Herald just can not help itself with its bias, it can not even bring itself to truthfully and accurately use the two MP’s correct leadership titles and party affiliation, instead describing them as “conservative” and “far-right”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/winston-peters-addresses-attack-on-australian-mp-helen-haines-violence-has-absolutely-no-place-in-politics/ZJTOA2YYNVEL3BNW26UF2RARJI/
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October 20, 2026 11:48am
Scooter

I still don’t understand with today’s light sentencing how Scott Watson cannot get parole after 27 years in prison. Put all facts aside even if he did it surely 27 years is excessive in today’s sentencing. Plus the fact bodies have never been found so there can never be absolute proof of how, why, where or even if they were killed.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/crime-and-justice/2035867/scott-watson-s-appeal-being-heard-in-supreme-court
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October 20, 2026 11:54am
- David Garrett
  
  Oh dear…Watson hasn’t been paroled because of his continuing bad behavior in prison, and because he is still deemed to be a threat.
  
  As for no bodies being found, a body or bodies hasn’t been necessary for a conviction for murder since 1944
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:23pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Watson hasn’t been paroled because of his continuing bad behavior in prison, and because he is still deemed to be a threat.”
    
    Who decides he is a threat, and how do they do it?
    Genuine question, not taking the piss.
    
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    October 20, 2026 1:47pm
    - cmm (semi-retired edition)
      
      “Who decides he is a threat, and how do they do it?”
      
      The parole board.
      
      They look at the prisoner’s record and want to see signs of rehabilitation (including good behaviour). Wilson is not showing those, so he bets to stay another cycle.
      
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      October 20, 2026 2:11pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Ticked boxes can tell a different story from reality. Its easy to write his name on a conflict report and to basically set him up as a participant.
        
        The cops have set many people up, so why not the Corrections Department on the coercion of interested parties?
        
        It doesn’t take many people to run this country. We shouldn’t forget that.
        
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        October 20, 2026 2:23pm
      - cmm (semi-retired edition)
        
        imalways: Is it possible that Watson is being screwed over by the cops, the judiciary, corrections and (maybe) even the parole board?
        
        Yes, of course it is possible. Buy likely? No.
        
        Maybe, just maybe, it is time to give it a rest and accept the teenie, tiny possibility he’s just a very manipulative person who is exactly where he belongs.
        
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        October 20, 2026 5:13pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Rest is only possible when the truth is known.
        Balancing possibilities and probabilities is what we do when the truth is hidden.
        
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        October 20, 2026 5:43pm
- RoboRob
  
  An interesting point. I imagine if the same crime was prosecuted today at most he would get 5 years and be out on parole well before that.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:25pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Grounded for eleven months and signed on a benefit…
    
    1 2
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    October 20, 2026 1:44pm
  - MCōs
    
    The guy was convicted of double murder
    The mandatory minimum non-parole period increases to at least 17 years if aggravating factors are present such as multiple victims
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:45pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  He hasn’t got paroled because he is an arsehole in prison, which might be indicative of his character.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:30pm
  - Razork
    
    I believe he is an arsehole, but also believe he was not guilty. So probably shouldn’t be in prison (for the murders) anyway.
    
    2 2
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    October 20, 2026 3:38pm
    - Hugh Jarse
      
      We all choose to believe what we want to.
      
      2 1
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      October 20, 2026 4:11pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    So are all of the parolees amicable, well behaved people, suitable for reintegration to society?
    
    Where do recidivists come from then?
    
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    October 20, 2026 5:46pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If the bodies ended up in the sea in or around Queen Charlotte Sound, they would have been eaten up by sea lice and other sea creatures within a few days.
  
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  October 20, 2026 4:08pm
herb1

Those who still support Trump , take a look in today’s Kyiv Post and see the slumped dead body of Angelina, a one year old toddler , murdered by Putins Russian terrorists. The same Russian terrorists Trump is now funding , trying to force Ukraine to submit to and now stopping Ukraine defending Angelina and other Ukrainian children and civilians. Down tick for as much as you like but think how you’d feel if it was your child , your niece or nephew or grandchild. If that’s ok with you that’s sad
9 15
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October 20, 2026 12:05pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Why blame only Trump ? The EU is still importing Russian fuel, as it has been all along since & before the war started.
  But our news media don’t want you to know that.
  
  14 4
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  October 20, 2026 1:30pm
  - Taieri
    
    The EU is still importing Russian fuel
    ————
    
    Most of that is imported by Hungary, a landlocked country with no pipelines connecting it to the countries other than Russia. They simply have no choice. The other country in the similar position is Slovakia.
    The largest importers of Russian LNG are France, Spain and Belgium. While Spanish imports are decreasing and Belgium’s are static, French imports of Russian LNG appear to be increasing.
    Other EU countries, either don’t buy Russian fuels at all, or do so in very negligible amounts.
    
    8 4
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    October 20, 2026 2:03pm
    - David George
      
      The Europeans have spent over $US200,000,000,000 on Russian oil and gas since the invasion and have done bugger all in military support but it’s all Trump’s fault?
      
      6 3
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      October 20, 2026 2:43pm
      - herb1
        
        Clearly maths is not your strong point. The amounts of money spent by Europe and America are easily obtainable as is the fact that America has not put a cent into Ukraine since January 2025 but have made lots of money selling weapons to Europe who pass them on free to Ukraine. Sad how some of my fellow right wingers care so little for innocent children and other civilians
        
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        October 20, 2026 3:26pm
      - Taieri
        
        have done bugger all in military support
        ———-
        
        Are you living in a parallel reality?
        
        Since the beginning of conflict the EU member states provided approx. USD226 billion in financial, military and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine.
        
        Since the beginning of conflict the US provided approx. USD195 billion in financial, military and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine.
        
        1 0
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        October 20, 2026 5:27pm
  - herb1
    
    They’re not withholding star shield for Ukraines defensive drones
    
    1 2
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    October 20, 2026 3:23pm
- kowtow
  
  As a poster who considers Trump’s domestic agenda to be very good . Border , manufacturing , re constituting the miltary , deportations , drug enforcement etc , and on foreign policy taking out the Mullahs ( hopefully) ;
  his and the rest of the WH’s treatment of Zelensky ( and Ukraine) has been and is appalling and now this!
  
  Dreadful, and I fear the administration may go further , blame the Ukrs for driving up diesel prices or sinking diesel tankers with ‘US fuel” and use that as an excuse to cut them off entirely.
  
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  October 20, 2026 3:15pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Great amount of emotive rhetoric and misdirection there, Herb1.
  Love the Russian Terrorits tag. hilarious.
  But Ukrainians bombing civilian buildings within Russia are what? I assume you are not calling them terrorists?
  Reuters: “Ukrainian Drone Slams Into Skyscraper Near Central Moscow” (May 2026)
  
  Trump is not arming Russia; he is trying to dig himself out of a hole that he started digging in Iran 28th February
  
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  October 20, 2026 5:34pm
- imalwaysright
  
  There would have been plenty of ‘Angelinas’ in Gaza.
  But its all about the politics.
  
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  October 20, 2026 5:52pm
imalwaysright

Britains top soldier is saying the military, instead of training soldiers to fight in the 400m to 4 km range, should prepare to fight in the zero to 40 metres range.

That sounds like civil control rather than war.

Any soldiers here have an opinion?

https://youtu.be/5-6VWsBD5YM?si=DnaUcYg1uE3CtXyD

(About 6 minutes)
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October 20, 2026 12:17pm
- cmm (semi-retired edition)
  
  Times change – equipment changes, weapons change, …
  
  It depends on terrain, but generally you would like to be able to deal with your enemy with stand off weapons with minimal exposure of your own forces.
  
  For example in Angola the South African forces used the G5 gun with a typical usage range of 35km or so – placing them just outside the range of the Cuban & Angolan artillery. Three or four air bust 155mm rounds or shots from a multiple rocket launcher can shred an entire rubgy field size area and render 50% casualties.
  
  However these days there are so many stand off weapons available – including drones that can operate well in the 500metres to few km space. That has shrunk the role of infantry in that space. Thus it makes sense to train up infantry for roles where they can still be more effective. That’s mostly the sub-100m stuff.
  
  But it’s a long time since I was in the army and my infantry-level training was somewhere between zero and minimal.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:48pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    That makes sense.
    I’m a conspiracy theorist, with a very good track record and a healthy distrust of anyone on the public tit, but your explanation of the modern theatre of conflict explains his speech.
    Bugger!
    
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    October 20, 2026 2:05pm
Ian

So Hipkins now says that granting money to the gangs for meth rehabilitation purposes under the Ardern government was a mistake. From Newstalk ZB. Was he not Deputy PM at the time?
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October 20, 2026 12:55pm
- imalwaysright
  
  She’s in aussie, safe and sound. Chippy has carte blanche to shove it back to her, and she is obliged to take it, otherwise the income streams might dry up…
  
  12 1
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  October 20, 2026 1:23pm
  - Ian
    
    Yes, correct. What I was trying to imply, that Chippy being Deputy PM, why didn’t he push back harder at the time not to do it. Maybe he didn’t have the gumption. And why now say it was a mistake without outlining his part in it, or what he did at the time to try and redeem himself…
    
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    October 20, 2026 3:01pm
- cmm (semi-retired edition)
  
  Yes, it was the wrong thing to do. Giving resources to people who sow only misery in society was arguably even an evil thing to do.
  
  But “mistake” is a deliberately chosen word to minimise blame and backlash. Oopsy, we all make mistakes even when we try our best.
  
  No, it was not a “mistake”. It was deliberate. It was wrong.
  
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  October 20, 2026 1:52pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/361048380/australian-mp-helen-haines-attacked-serious-incident-outside-electorate-office
This self-absorbed loser decided to murder an Australian MP – for what?
Apparently he has issues with Israel, climate change and Jeffery Epstein – And maybe local forest logging.
So killing someone is going to solve all those serious personal problems?
No doubt “mental health” will be mentioned as nauseum at his trial.
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October 20, 2026 1:27pm
- Colville
  
  Shall we hold our breath waiting for the media to label him as a far left extremist? LOL
  
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  October 20, 2026 3:44pm
Hugh Jarse

All good bro, I have a facial tatt. Just another PC appointment.

Interesting how the Herald has tagged this as ex-cop, he maybe now but he wasn’t when he stole the Glock but nice attempt at diversion. No comment where the pistol went, presumably to a gang.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ex-cop-steven-karehana-admits-stealing-a-police-issued-glock-in-whanganui/VQBZMEJJNJCZ7BDZLY3HKS2ONQ/

And another one.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/cop-tried-to-impress-relative-with-lights-and-sirens-146km-h-speeds-in-police-car-hn5pdc2f.

While on the one hand it’s good to see there people being identified and prosecuted you have to wonder at the recruitment standards.
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October 20, 2026 1:28pm
- cmm (semi-retired edition)
  
  His advice to recruits was to “bring your authentic self”.
  
  Yup, you did that alright!
  
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  October 20, 2026 2:12pm
KKNZ2025

Some debate yesterday about the right to silence had opinions supporting the Police PACE caution, on the basis of subsequent Court explanations being questioned if not offered initially.

Why would / should anyone trust the Police?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/crime-and-justice/2037593/police-officer-who-stole-police-issued-firearm-starred-in-police-recruitment-series
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October 20, 2026 1:36pm
- newview
  
  Kk what are we having to trust the police for specifically in this situation.
  
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  October 20, 2026 3:12pm
- Ra Henare
  
  This is an interesting review of the Nats proposed removal of the right to silence.
  
  So maybe its a straw-horse electionering when looking at the practicality
  
  https://substack.com/@halfling
  
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  October 20, 2026 5:40pm
Jethrod

I have just seen this article put up by the Herald at 0500 this morning. Written by Tracy Neal it just seems far to convenient to come out during and election process for something that happened in 2021 under Labour’s watch.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hdc-delayed-diagnosis-led-to-leg-amputation-and-mans-death-in-dunedin-hospital/5SIY2EABH5GVBOEZ7MBAEDCIWE/
I tried to find a website for Kiwiblogs associates like the Taxpayers Union to review it , but couldn’t.
Just totally dishonest journalism even though she puts the correct date but a big headline completely distorts the truth.
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October 20, 2026 3:08pm
- SoloView
  
  @ Jethrod
  
  Which part of “released today” did you miss?
  
  “In findings released today, Deputy Health and Disability Commissioner Vanessa Caldwell said the delays were the result of a “series of failings involving multiple staff”, including inadequate documentation and communication of Senior Medical Officer concerns.”
  
  How does the headline distort the truth??
  
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  October 20, 2026 6:20pm
Ian Boag

Some interesting thoughts about maths teaching using Khan Academy ….

https://chatgpt.com/share/6ad6fc87-b250-83ec-b127-f9f4b78a5ce7
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October 20, 2026 6:33pm

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