DBP should go squad
Idiot/Savant at No Right Turn concludes Beoson-Pope should go for three reasons:
- He has misled the public
- He claims that he would have made the call himself, and “reserves the right” to express such concerns in future.
- Benson-Pope is responsible for the conduct of the staff in their own office
Span also says Benson-Pope should go, mainly because he has become a distraction and liability.
I’m trying to think of something else that Idiot/Savant, Span and I would all agree on. Maybe Harry Potter 
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July 24th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
There is quite a dichotomy at work here. There is a great level of job security when your govt is in the minority and in danger of losing it’s job.
Look at how long it took Helen to act regading Taito Philip Feild.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
He has not misled the public.
Seems like this another harry Potter thread full of lots of fanatasy and make believe.
Remember the guy who was just a messenger but leaked the telecom unbundling decision, to ‘help a friend’
labour has been bitten before by these snakes .
And leaking is a fact of life now, much much more so than previously. How do you think they happen, people see things they shouldnt in both the public and private sector.
And as for some who give unsubstantiated ideas that partners can be in senior postions in opposing major corporates just indicate they low level jobs they are aware of.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Selma … you never cease to amaze me in trying to defend the indefensible even though your colleague bloggers from the ‘left’ are abandoning ship post haste.
I repeat again as someone who has worked for both Labour and National Cabinet Ministers … it is totally inconceivable that a ministerial staffer would take it upon himself to make the phone call without the direct knowledge and encouragement of the Minister.
DBP has, in the past, shown himself to be a lier. Whats changed?
July 24th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Selma:
You’re a running river of dumb analogies, aren’t you? Michael Ryan was (quite properly IMO) immediately sacked, and faced a full Police investigation which- for reasons that escape me – which did not result in charges being laid.
Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet CEO, Maarten Wevers, and Secretary to the Cabinet, Diane Morcom, immediately accepted responsibility for the breech of security on their watch and offered their resignations to the Prime Minister. She declined to accept them, as Clark was perfectly entitled to do.
Don’t see the comparison, Sewer. Wevers and Morcom actually believed they were professionally and ethically accountable for the actions of their staff. Apparently, nobody is accountable for anything where Mr Benson Pope is concerned.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Oh, and something else Ms. Sewer forgot to mention – Michael Ryan was sacked for something he admits he’d actually done, and the outcome of a properly conducted leak investigation that was referred to Police not because of who his partner is, or what s/he does for a living! Then again, I’m not surprised Sewer is so hot on the notion of presumed guilty by association.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
He should go. Before lunchtime preferably.
Third strike, but this wasn’t just a swing and a miss, but a thumping of the umpire with a bat.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Isnt it more clear. Both Helen and DPB said they would have made the same call as the staff member. So there is no misleading of anybody.
The only thing that is changed is that for the very few people involved in new government policy , who you sleep with does matter. She wouldnt be able to take any work home in case stray eyes see something ( press secretaries being the biggest eyes and ears of anyone)
Every journalist uses undisclosed sources, they being very particular about the right to keep their sources confidential.
just as Im sure DPF passes information to TV3s duncan garner, maybe not the crown jewels, the chance of keys press secretary seeing something he shouldnt is too great.
Journalists pump friends etc all the time for secrets so this is a special case and sets the precedent for the future
July 24th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Selma You well know they if the protocols required that no person in side the beltway was allowed to be employed if a partner or close relative worked “for the enemy” then there would be a huge number of vacancies. Mind you some would say thatw as a good thing and a saving to the long suffering taxpayer.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Selma
I told you that I know of two senior HR managers (one an executive) at opposing oil companies that are married – effectively they held the same job at competing global multinationals, and did so successfully. Indeed one so well s/he was promoted to the global head office. Those individuals and companies handled it and the conflict was well known.
I’d suggest that acknowledging and dealing with it publicly is far more effective a managment method than sacking someone after 3 days and with no evidence of a breach, especially after spending a year trying to fill the job.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Actually journalists pass far more information to me, than I do to them
It is fascinating to see the differences between the principled left and the party hacks who would defend the Government even if it set the Parliament on fire and blamed it on a communist.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Selma says: “Both Helen and DPB said they would have made the same call as the staff member. ” Then they should be fired because that involves breaking the law
July 24th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Selma damns itself with its own words.
“Isnt it more clear. Both Helen and DPB said they would have made the same call as the staff member.”
Which is one of the lesser understood parts of this whole saga.
That is that a Government Department’s communications strategy, policy and activities are so secret and politically sensitive that it would be a problem if any part of it became known to to those members of the Parliament who don’t happen to be in favour of those in power.
Since when did OUR Government become so much of a secret to the general public and so politicised that a Government Department becomes more a part of a political party than an arm of Government?
Bad management decisions can sometimes be expected but this is an absolute outrage that needs to be questioned for what it really is – the political capture of Government in all its ugliness. Yes, arms of government are required to implement a political party’s policy, yeas state employees will be instructed to do things that offend their own political (and possibly other) sensitivities but this goes waaaaay past the acceptable IMHO.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
David admits that journalists trade in information. Its what they do.
They are a special case. And if labour says no fair enough.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
I’m with Helen Clark on this. I also don’t see any issue with an advisor to the minister asking if a rumour about a conflict was true. He would have been negligent if he hadn’t, but only as long as it was purely seeking information with no overtones that the Minister was unhappy.
I think the key issue is that Hugh Logan did not fulfil his responsibilities under the public servant code of conduct and ensure the issue was managed appropriately – ie shifting Ms Setchell was not the right answer to a potential conflict, it was clumsy and unprofessional.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Selma … keep digging your hole. Fascinating to watch. Perhaps you don’t know how Ministerial offices actually work. Some of us have been there, done that. DBP continues to maintain the phone call was made without his knowledge. That simply defies belief and, coming from a proven lier? … look, I have no great love for your mob even though my father was staunch Labour but my honest advice is cut him loose before he does you even more harm.
The more rational members of Labour clearly think likewise.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
<i>It is fascinating to see the differences between the principled left and the party hacks who would defend the Government even if it set the Parliament on fire and blamed it on a communist.</i>
Surely ‘party hack’ is a bit rough – Selma is really just repeating the same arguments as the fair-minded, non-partisan Radio new Zealand political editor
[DPF: Yes that has been noticed, to put it mildly. Maybe he has to support Hurring as they are both EPMU officers! I just hope when National is in Govt I don't get as badly affected by the same disease of blind loyalty. I know it will happen to some degree, but I hope I can escape with the mildest strain]
July 24th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
David,
I think he should go too. I believe his attempts to blame Stephen Hurring are most unfair, as Ministers should be responsible for the actions of staff in their own office.
I don’t think Labour can be wholly blamed for the move towards politicisation of the public service. It started with the State Sector Act which National did not substantially amend. I regard the appointment of Christine Rankin by National as policy related politicisation – she got the job because she supported work for the dole.
I hope to get some time to do a post on this tonight.
Joe
[DPF:Joe - National did not appoint Rankin. The SSC did. I would be interested to hear how you think the 1988 State Sector Act politicised things - most commentators cite it as a world leading act for having a neutral public service]
July 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
I’ll never make it as a Labour supporter.
I would have initiated a full inquiry for each of these things, when they first came to my attention;
* Complaints by 14 year old girls that he was entering the camp ground showers (more than once)
* Complaints that he lined 14 year old girls up in their nighties and shone a torch on them.
* Stuffing a tennis ball into a students mouth and slapping a student.
* Investigate claims he was involved in sordid stuff with animals and under aged girls
* Apparently getting involved in a sacking for political reasons.
How much can the lefty supporters take, what new low will the left sink to so they can protect one of their own.
It’s a disgrace – such serious claims by so many people and not one single formal inquiry. Helen said it’s OK – just like she did with taito Field – should we move on now ?
July 24th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
No one of sane mind can defend the indefensible behaviour of the benson dope. This latest mishap so close to the rumours of a historic nature that indicated he had a panty slut boy fetish, and had a habit while employed as schoolteacher of administering tennis balls down the throats of frightened pupils is beyond belief. This man is a loose cannon, but so is the entire corrupt government, as New Zealanders expect nothing less !!
July 24th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
If this had happened under the Nats the 2 faced Socialists would have been screaming blue murder.And as for the limp wristed response from the PSA WTF They would have demanded resignations and had their members out on strike.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
D4J – missed ya. Really. Far too sane around here without you. Although I must admit this topic has brought out the looney lefties in their throngs. Been quite exciting. Such a silly bunch they are. Keep trying to defend the indefensible. I think maybe some of them actually believe the crap they write too! Who’d have thunk.
In case you need to catch up on anything, basically, as a country, we’re screwed. That about sums it up.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
David Benson-Pope says that Hurring made the call the CE without his knowledge, that Hurring will receive counselling, and he was disappointed that Hurring made the call.
I haven’t yet heard a journalist ask DPB: “At what point did you express your disappointment to Hurring?”
July 24th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Joe, Christine Rankin can’t have been a political appointee because everyone supports work for the dole, its just common sense.
July 24th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Dear Sir David Farrar,
I know my monthly ban sentence does not come up for parole until August 1st , I will not comment again to after punishment is up in full , however panty slut boy makes my blood boil and I am sorry for my postings on this thread . NZ$ = $81 US , God help US all .
Kind regards
d4j
July 24th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
National’s performance at Question Time was limp. I only hope they are playing a slow deliberate game and letting D B-P dig himself further into the mire as he has memory lapses as to what constructed answer he used on previous occasions.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Subject: Labour Re-election Strategy – Provisional Draft
Highly Confidential. Do not circulate
From: hsimpson
To: hclark; mcullen; phodgeson
cc: mwillians; kisung
This remains a rough draft with furthur details to follow. Any comments welcome.
1. Continue to make pointless stupid mistakes esp when we are just starting to claw our way back in the polls. Mistakes that alienate the press and keep our relationship with them as poisonous and disfunctional as possible are ideal.
2. Assure ourselves that these mistakes are ‘beltway issues’ that the public will not care about and refuse to take responsibilty for them. Assume that the media and the opposition will oblige us here by not drawing attention to our blunders.
3. React with fury when the media and opposition draw attention to our blunders. Assure ourselves that even though the mistake is now front page news it is still a beltway issue.
4. Carry out internal polling and discover that the mistake is not a beltway issue and that it effects negatively on polling. Continue to refuse any culpabilty anyway because backing down now means those bastards in the National Party win, and refusing to do our jobs properly because of meaningless political point scoring is what responsible government is all about.
5. Continue to nose-dive in the polls.
6. ????
7. Victory!
Although the details of some stages have yet to be finalised I have great faith in this course of action. Your thoughts please.
Juche!
Heather.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Danyl Mclauchlan: six is suspend democracy. Don’t think they wouldn’t do it if they thought the army would back them.
July 24th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
You have to wonder what dirt Benson Dope has on The Great Leader H Clark to be able to get away with all he has. Must involve animals.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Slashin Nashin – as far as I know, no animals were involved.