Cullen on Australian Tax Cuts
NZPA has an article which quotes Dr Cullen:
Dr Cullen said there was nothing in the Australian tax cut package for those earning under $30,000 a year and just $20 a week for those earning up to $74,000 a year, but $128 a week for those on $200,000 a year.
“Not the kind of programme you would expect to see from a Labour-led government,” Dr Cullen said.
Okay – someone earning $30,000 a year pays $5,730 tax in NZ. Before this announcement they were going to end up in Australia paying only $2,850 tax. Once this package is fully implemented they will pay only $1,500 tax on $30,000 of income – a 5% average tax rate. This is what Cullen calls nothing?
A worker earning $30,000 in Australia wil have a takehome pay that is a whopping $81 a week higher than under Dr Cullen. Now that is a huge disparity. And it is $26 a week more than before the announcement.
Someone on $70,000 a year pays $18,570 tax in NZ. Before this announcement they were going to end up in Australia paying only $15,600 tax. Once this package is fully implemented they will pay only $13,900 tax on $70,000 of income – a 20% average tax rate. And that is $32 a week more than efore this package was announced.
Someone on $30,000 in Australia will be keeping 14.1% more of their income than in NZ. On $70,000 they will be keeping 6.6% more of their income. On $200,000 they will be keeping just 4.4% more of their income.
Dr Cullen says that giving lower income workers a higher percentage of their income, than wealthier people, is something one would not expect from a Labour-led Government. Well not his one for sure.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
David, I’m not sure what your point is with all these posts. NZ is not a high tax country by OECD standards, and no amount of selective use of facts will change that. So a right-wing government in Australia is cutting taxes as an election ploy. What’s your point?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
And don’t give me your shit about low income workers. National is the reason we have so many low income workers and you know it. You even had a hand in the legislation that put them there David.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
I think Monseigneur Cullen needs to be called out on this one and shown up for being the ignorant, stubborn history teacher he truly is.
Sure, one has to compare apples with apples, but with ridiculous surpluses over the last three years, NZers are well due for a tax cut.
Tane,
National possibly had a hand in putting them there, fair call. But who has kept them there for the last 8 years?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
That’s right Tane, eat the rich. Lecture them, abuse them, increase their taxes, introduce new taxes. It’s such a good idea to promote a rhetoric that tells the most economically productive people that they are just greedy unwelcome leeches.
How do think that will end?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
SM: Wages for low income NZers collapsed under National. There’s no question about it. Labour put in the ERA and wages have risen significantly, plus the minimum wage has gone up by more than 60%. Of course, I’d like Labour to do more as I’ve said elsewhere, but it’s just the height of cynicism for a National Party lackey like Farrar to shed crocodile tears for the poor when his party not only created the problem in the first place but has voted against every piece of legislation that Labour has put forward to improve their lot.
(One correction: Farrar was involved in National’s campaign against the ERA, not for the ECA – same diff in practice)
October 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I love it how Tane whines and whines. I mean how dare I blog on a topic the great Tane disapproves of. How dare i point out that Dr Cullen is wrong. I mean Tane would never point out a politician is wrong.
Tane may not understand the point of the posts, but the vast majority of NZers do. Australia has a consistent record of giving people back some of their taxes, as conditions allow it, while this Government has not.
As for Tane’s whine about low income workers, well he is going to hate my other posts later this week.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Here’s a question: why put minimum wage up? Why not just put a – say, $10,000 – tax-free threshhold in place?
It effectively does the same thing – more cash in hand for the low income worker. Thoughts?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I’m not sure what the point is with these posts either…
Again the NZ economy is totally different to that of Australia.
And again Australian taxes are massive compared to those of say Monaco.
The Australian government could pay people to live there and I still wouldn’t go live there, and I’m not really concerned by those who would.
It only seems to be the dregs who go to Australia, because people with talent who want to live somewhere else go to the States or the UK or places with higher wages and lower taxes than Australia… However there’s a hell of a lot of people living in NZ who could live anywhere in the world but want to live here.
So who cares about the losers who leave?
Anyway isn’t that what the free market should be all about?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Nice spin David – “Tane whines”. What have you been doing for the last few years but whining about taxes?
The fact is the party and the policies you support have done more to harm low-income workers than anything else in the last 50 years, yet you have the audacity to pretend you’re looking after their interests. Honestly mate, you’re shameless.
[DPF: Tane - you seem unable to debate the issue and resort to the tried trick of attacking me, instead of my arguments. You do this almost daily. I've posted some facts on income tax in NZ vs Australia. Go away and see if you can find some facts to prove people are better off under Cullen than Costello. You also need to learn that just because you asssert an opinion, you are not God and it is not a fact.]
October 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Tane – you are an ignorant fool who cannot learn from experience.
You are quite right about the ERA, in my opinion. But part of the problem of that and the whole work planning reforms of the 1990s is that the National Government refused to recognise that we operate in an international labour market.
Now you, and the Labour Government, are making exactly the same mistake. The problem with your lecture-the-rich-greedy-bastards-and-make-them-pay-more approach is you refuse to recognise that we operate in an international labour market.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Tane,
Cullen told a bald-faced lie to the press. Bad form!
But don’t worry, he backed it up with a rock-hard, honest-to-Gog truth.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Here’s a question: why put minimum wage up? Why not just put a – say, $10,000 – tax-free threshhold in place?
SM, wouldn’t this basically amount to the taxpayer subsidising bad employers?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
The problem with your lecture-the-rich-greedy-bastards-and-make-them-pay-more approach is you refuse to recognise that we operate in an international labour market.
Milo: you don’t pay more. NZ has one of the lowest tax takes in the OECD.
SM: I frankly don’t care what Cullen says – he’s not my bro.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
I’m just wondering if Tane would like some cheese with the whine? The problem with you Tane is you suffer from victim mentality. Poor poor Tane.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
AGJ: Is that the best you can do?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Tax is a percentage of income right? so of course a tax cut will give, in weekly dollar amounts, more to someone on a higher income than a lower one.
BUT THEY STILL PAID MORE TAX
But Dr Cullen believes tax cuts do does nothing for people earning under $30,000 a year. He says a Labour-led government would be unlikely to adopt such a programme.
Ah Dr Cullen is confident that people earning under $30,000 would willing forgo a few more dollars in their pay packet if it meant someone on a higher income didn’t get anything either.
Bollocks
October 16th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Rickyjj: So who cares about the losers who leave?
I have to chuckle at your comment, I’m one of those who may well leave if they bring this in and Sullen does nothing next year. And who cares my company who spent 6 months looking for my south island counterpart and couldn’t – this economy cares and the wages that I won’t be paying tax on will care.
You must be a muppet to not realise that people in this country seriously care that there will be increasing numbers of people leaving.
What’s more I’ve a family so thats four people not paying into the basket.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Also David my understanding is that the Australian wage earner gets over and above his wages, an extra 9% (Thats an extra $2295.00 Net for someone earning $30,000) paid by his employer straight into his personal Superannuation account.
This added compulsory bonus is often left out when making Trans-Tasman comparisons.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Tane, you’re not really worth it. So yes.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
AGJ: Pathetic.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
SM, wouldn’t this basically amount to the taxpayer subsidising bad employers?
…and WFF isn’t?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Tane – the tax take has been going up in this country. I pay more due to the introduction of the 39% tax-rate, huge fiscal drag increasing my real tax rate, state-owned power companies doubling their petrol prices, new petrol taxes, to name a few.
How can you expect people to take you seriously if you twist the language like that? I don’t pay more because somebody else pays even more? By that logic, only one person in the world is over-taxed.
Bizarro …. does that really pass for reasoned justification where you come from. Hmmn, it could explain a few things …
October 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Poor Tane
October 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
I mean power prices (sorry)
October 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
So you’re saying that a student who works part-time at a cafe/McJob/intern/whatever, automatically has a bad employer?
Although you raise a good point. Subsidising people with my tax. Hmmmm, now why does that ring an oh-so-familiar bell?
Don’t forget to stay on topic though.
Topic = Cullen lying saying there was nothing in the Australian tax cut package for those earning under $30,000 a year.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
The problem Yeti, is that Helen knows that the 600 hard working NZers that leave every week are -due to their work ethic and desire to get ahead- mainly National voters.
Hence she has no particular vested interest in plugging the “Brain Drain”
October 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
milo,
Power companies are operating in a market, so you’re talking crap. And you’re paying a bit more of your post-$60,000 income in the 39% bracket? Cry me a river mate.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Here’s a question: why put minimum wage up? Why not just put a – say, $10,000 – tax-free threshhold in place?
SM, wouldn’t this basically amount to the taxpayer subsidising bad employers?
But you have no problem with WFF and Kiwisaver doing the same?
Hypocrite
October 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
High taxes punish the poor mr tane. Virtually no employer or person in busines I knnow wants to be an employer and does everything they can to avoid it. Why? – because its just too hard. And too much of that employers working life is ripped off them by the govt.
If you want to encourage employment then surely make it easier to employ. But no, like most this govt does, it gets it completely arse about.
Similarly, very few in business I know are running at their capacity because, again, too much of their working life is sacrificied to the facsists in helegrad.
NZ has the capacity (NZers that is) to actually step way out and do something exciting in business. Try completely slashing the tax rates. For everyone. As I have said before, in my opinion if that was done here business would launch into outer space. Most people I know would more than double what they get up to now.
NZ has led the way before (votes for natives, votes for women, non-nuclear, welafre, etc etc) and the NZ character still has that capacity in spades.
The dunces in govt now just need to get out of our way. Man they make my blood boil.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Tane – yet again you show your ignorance. Power companies operating in a market? Nooo – we have a monopoly in distribution, and a cosy oligopoly (near regional monopolies) in supply.
Don’t you know anything? Or do you just make it up if you’re caught out?
October 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
And who cares my company who spent 6 months looking for my south island counterpart and couldn’t – this economy cares and the wages that I won’t be paying tax on will care.
Well I’m not sure they do – if your company spent 6 months looking for your south island counterpart and couldn’t I rather think the market is trying to tell your company something…
You must be a muppet to not realise that people in this country seriously care that there will be increasing numbers of people leaving.
Because if too many people leave house prices will soar and our beaches will become overcrowded? Good argument.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Bevan,
Bzzzzt, I’m sorry that was the incorrect answer.
The correct answer is: Yes, I do have a problem with WFF. (Not so much with Kiwisaver. It has the right meaning – the solution/implimentation needs tweaking though).
And I’m so, so sorry that I do not put a disclaimer underneath _every_ _single_ post, that I like this or like that. Should I do it from now on, just to please you? Grow a brain.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Bev, I agree there are some employers who think WFF is an excuse to pay shitty wages, but in unionised worksites at least that kind of attitude doesn’t get very far.
What you’re missing is that there’s a huge difference between targeting tax cuts to help working people with the additional costs that families bring (you can’t expect employers to do that), and letting low-wage employers get away with paying their staff subsistence wages and expecting the taxpayer to subsidise their basic living costs.
The other point is that if the min wage was still around $6 an hour that’d still just be $6 an hour in the hand – far less than if you earned the current min wage of $11.25 and paid the minimum tax rate.
I don’t understand your point on KiwiSaver.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Cullen (and Tane) need to realise that we are in competition with Australia when it comes to attracting a good workforce. Right now both countries labor markets are tight, and more and more Kiwis are deciding Australia gives them the best deal, the better weather and the better life for them and their kids so they are moving there – cant argue with that Tane. We need to attract the good ones back and also attract the better immigrants from those looking to come to our part of the world, if we dont attract the best employees to this country, then it will slowly go down hill.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
rickjj
“It only seems to be the dregs who go to Australia” – proof of this is needed. Every Kiwi I know in Australia is either tertiary qualified or a well paying trade and ALL are doing significantly better financially than they did in NZ BEFORE the tax cuts of the last few years. Your comment about Kiwis in the US is true – all I have met are extremely talented.
Tane
It matters not a whit that the Australian economy is “different” to NZ’s nor where NZ sits in the OECD tax tables. Australia matters because it is geographically and culturally close and, for NZ citizens at least, a virtual common labour market. This makes migration of NZ’s labour force a huge issue for retaining needed skills in NZ. The growing standard of living gap between two such close neighbours has negative economic repercussions for NZ. The lowering of taxes in Australian plays a crucial part in that growing gap. The high tax OECD countries are not ones NZers commonly migrate to and the very low tax states are the same. Lower paid workers are better off in Australia because of lower taxes.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Virtually no employer or person in busines I knnow wants to be an employer and does everything they can to avoid it. Why? – because its just too hard.
vto, according to the world bank NZ is the 2nd easiest place in the world to do business and the 10th easiest to hire staff.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Rickyjj: Pretty cheap houses in Zimbabwe at the moment.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Oh, sorry. Thought that was aimed at me.
We have a rough idea about Tane’s thoughts on KS and WFF though.
(Tane, Kiwisaver is in effect a subsidy from Government and employers – work it out).
October 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Power companies operate in a market, sure. But plenty of non-state owned companies in China do too, and that doesn’t mean they aren’t dragged down by arbitary regulation… not to mention the additional ridiculous compliance costs of socialist enviromental policy.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Power companies operating in a market? Nooo – we have a monopoly in distribution, and a cosy oligopoly (near regional monopolies) in supply.
Milo, the prices are not set by the government are they? They’re set by the market, however flawed your mate Max Bradford may have designed it. You can’t count it as a tax.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
The correct answer is: Yes, I do have a problem with WFF. (Not so much with Kiwisaver. It has the right meaning – the solution/implimentation needs tweaking though).
When an employer has to start contributing to the employees Kiwisaver scheme, you can bet they will take it into consideration when deciding their pay increases.
And I’m so, so sorry that I do not put a disclaimer underneath _every_ _single_ post, that I like this or like that. Should I do it from now on, just to please you? Grow a brain.
OK, WTF is your problem? Like to know I offend you that much when this is the first time Ive noticed your login.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Tane: I can count it as tax, because it is a huge windfall profit for the government, and they haven’t returned it back to us through tax cuts. In fact, power price increases are a very regressive tax, as they take a disproportionate amount of the income of low income earners.
Power prices in Australia are roughly half what they are here.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Oh, sorry. Thought that was aimed at me.
We have a rough idea about Tane’s thoughts on KS and WFF though.
Well I was gonna say….
October 16th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Bevan, see above for the retraction and apology.
Pals? =)
October 16th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
Well Milo, if you want to fix it go lobby the government to fix the Bradford reforms. But it’s not a tax.
I’ve gotta run now – have fun guys.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
See you later Tane. Keep arguing tomorrow! It’s good for democracy.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Every Kiwi I know in Australia is either tertiary qualified or a well paying trade and ALL are doing significantly better financially than they did in NZ BEFORE the tax cuts of the last few years.
True but who doesn’t have a tertiary qualification these days? I’m not really sure it’s still a measure of ability. If we want tertiary qualifications then Indian MBAs are a dime a dozen.
Pretty cheap houses in Zimbabwe at the moment.
It’s got warmer weather than NZ too.
So what, you think everyone’s going to move there next?
October 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Tane
Do you run a business in NZ? Have you ever had to make a payroll and meet a PAYE deadline to the IRD where you paid your staff but not yourself. I did. You know it is slightly easier to set up a business in the NZ than the US but there’s not that much in it. The overall tax burden (even with Social Security, State and city taxes) is so much lower that it more than compensates for the more time consuming set up process. Hiring and firing staff here is infinitely easier than NZ. Constructive dismissal claims were a hassle – the Employment Tribunal would find in favour of claimants even if the their case was obviously a try on. It was next to impossible to take on young people on a trial basis to see if they worked out and in the end I gave up. That meant some young person missed out on learning the entry level of the industry I was operating in. In the past, I had mentored several young people and helped them get the experience to get well paying jobs.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Tane – 2nd easiest to do biz and 10th to employ. wooptie shit. I have these discussions very often with actuall business people and employers, including one this morning.
How close do you actually get to doing biz and employing people? Miles away I suspect. Hence the different planets that our types live on.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Rickyjj wrote: Well I’m not sure they do – if your company spent 6 months looking for your south island counterpart and couldn’t I rather think the market is trying to tell your company something…
Tane wrote: vto, according to the world bank NZ is the 2nd easiest place in the world to do business and the 10th easiest to hire staff
I have personally been trying to recruit for a replacement in my team for the last 9 months (international company that pays in upper quartile in NZ etc), and the job market is so tight that we can either take a hopeless employee (little relevant experience etc) or no-one – certainly not from New Zealand. Advertising internationally is ‘better’ (at least we get applicants!), but as we’re competing with Australia (and other locations), no-one really wants to come here. We used to sell NZ on the ‘lifestyle choice’, but now the money is so far behind that it doesn’t make-up for that.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Bevan, see above for the retraction and apology.
Pals? =)
Yeah why not…
October 16th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
KIA – too late bro – Tane finishes for the day at 4pm and he’s gooooooooone – the union will kick up a stink if he stays on and tries to argue in his own time. Gee, that reminds me…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9oA1LFoMw
October 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Spam – invest in employee training/upskilling ; )
October 16th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Is it just me or is Tane a ‘lone voice’ these days? I thought the Left were storming back into the blogosphere. Must be since Redbaiter left huh.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
What happened to Redbaiter? Did he get banned? (At least, I’m assuming he’s a he ….)
October 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Methinks labour have alienated ‘thinking’ or realist centre-left-wingers (who are now sounding centre-rightish) – leaving only the hysterical and the party apparatchiks to resonate on their own sorry blogs…
October 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
I read somewhere that Tane didn’t think our low paid were overtaxed…our low paid would barely be taxed at all if the thresholds were lifted…but that would also benefit the higher income earners and Cullen doesn’t want that.
Better to keep the low income earners dependent on welfare.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
how arrogant the finace minister is
He either has no concern about the elections next year or simply takes for granted Labour will romp in.
His statement that lower wage earners should not get biger cuts than the wealthy is comparing to segregation times when a hard working black man should not be seen to be doing better than lazy white trash.
He calls himself a socialist
his projectios are that of a fat cat capitalist who thinks he will come to the day when he says “let them eat cake.”
No wonder the Labour party are so keen on pushing the EFB
and Micheal Laws laughed at me that Labour would be pushing new laws b4 the next election. Him and Cullen would drink the blood of the peasants together
Judging from yesterdays arrests thats not far away
anyone going to call ma logic twisted ??
October 16th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
rickjj
“True but who doesn’t have a tertiary qualification these days? I’m not really sure it’s still a measure of ability. If we want tertiary qualifications then Indian MBAs are a dime a dozen”. That doesn’t even come close to proving your contention that the riff raff of NZ migrate to Australia. If it were true (which its not) then how do you explain the fact that NZers in Australia have higher than average incomes and have the lowest unemployment rate of any migrant group in Australia. People are voting with feet because raising a family is financially easier in Oz.
I love NZ but I am relieved that I left. The benefits of life where I am in the US far outweigh the lovely food, easier access to rugby and great Kiwi sense of humour. I visit NZ twice a year and have a great time but leave saddened by what NZ has become and what I know it could be.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Kiwi in America,,
The politicians won’t admit we’re just too small
We can’t keep up with the international Jonses next door and they should stop trying to compare us to them. Its all an out and out lie that we can be sen as new york’s londons, or paris.
We’re being deeply assaulted through our culture and livlihoods because of the traitorous policies within the Beehive that take away our souls and hopes as a nation.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
The Aussie earning $200,000 would pay over $50,000 in taxes. So he gets back $6,000 leaving Government with $44,000. I don’t see much wrong
with that.
Good discount for cash.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Oh what I could do with the extra money if tax takes were reduced. No it wouldn’t be spent on plasma screens or leather lounge suites, it would be reinvested in my businesses. I would have the confidence to take on staff and know that I could pay them and myself even though income can be very ‘lumpy’ from time to time.
It’s just too hard here to get ahead. All my siblings now live in Oz, the work they do maybe be hard at times but they can at least really enjoy their time off. I’ve forgotten what time off is. (Read: Need staff member but can’t afford the costs that go with one…) sigh…
October 16th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
we’re going to be taken over by Chinese business
where as American influence has dominated, the socialists now perfer Chinese ties. Cheap sweatshop poor quality goods, mass produced and flooding our market.
Think thats the future? See Stephen Tindall. Be one of the futures few business men surviving in this country.
Definitely does not need to expand internationally
and now we’re accepting Chinese warships into our ports
and some one said ma logic is twisted
Gotta be joking
October 16th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Spam – invest in employee training/upskilling ; )
I do. We take on graduates to upskill them, but its hard to replace a person with 8 years experience with someone with 2 years, even with upskilling and training – at least from a business continuity perspective.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Tane
If you are so convined that Dr. Cullen hasn’t been stretching the truth to match his ideological agenda of taxing low income workers hard – then post some comparisons on “The Standard”.
You come in here – shoot your mouth off about how DPF’s figures are wrong yet – no a whisper about the tax cuts on your blog.
Truth a bity scary for your blog Tane ?
October 16th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Tane,
The Aussie tax tables and David’s take on Cullen’s clearly uninformed commentary are wrong how?
Your statement “National is the reason we have so many low income workers and you know it” is supported by which argument you have put forward?
What is it with Labour apologists? 8 long years of Labour governance says the buck is stopping one place.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
note to self: Dr. Cullen can’t count. Some people should drag him to the “i’m not smarter than a 10 years old” and i bet 5 bucks Cullen would fail all the math question.
i work ~10 hours a day, often 6 days per week. i pay tax n student loan over $300 per week, and that’s 1/3 of my salary. every morning i’m working for the government (who does almost nothing for me, i pay petrol tax for the road i drive on). every afternoon i’m paying for my mortgage repayment. every mid day i’m paying for my food and petrol and if lucky, save a few bucks to pay my fixed term mortgage. yes i would like to have a few green notes back per week so i can save some money and raise a child!
October 16th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Cullen (and Tane) need to realise that we are in competition with Australia when it comes to attracting a good workforce.
Actually, it is the employers who need to realise this. 25% higher wages makes more difference than $20.00 per week in the hand from a tax cut.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
I’m not a National man, but I gave up on Labour years ago
If you can’t see the writing on the wall now it’ll be too late whan they put you against it.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Thrash
You have a very valid point. Wages are lower and taxes are higher. Both the employers and the Govt need to see that they are both not helping the situation.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
I have personally been trying to recruit for a replacement in my team for the last 9 months (international company that pays in upper quartile in NZ etc), and the job market is so tight that we can either take a hopeless employee (little relevant experience etc) or no-one – certainly not from New Zealand. Advertising internationally is ‘better’ (at least we get applicants!), but as we’re competing with Australia (and other locations), no-one really wants to come here. We used to sell NZ on the ‘lifestyle choice’, but now the money is so far behind that it doesn’t make-up for that.
So bite the bullet and pay the market rate. As people have pointed out, the labour force is an international market. If you aren’t willing to pay the market rate, ie. overseas rates, then you will not get the calibre of worker you want to hire. Common sense, I would have thought.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Thrash
Of course the likes of Tane will say taxes are just right – why just right – becasue they are as set by Labour. Labour are beyond question. Employers are bad, Labour are good and it’s always Nationals fault.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
so,,
the govts finally got to the point where clean, green NZ can’t attract competent, decent professionals.
what an indictment of a seriously criminal politburo
October 16th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Correct hinamanu
Nih over on the standard blamed National for the low state Dental Therapists salaries in todays market. 8 years of Labour Govt and they couldn’t see that it was possible to give them a pay rise to match the private sector.
Laughable.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Me. I left school to drive a truck for a second-hand firm. After lots and lots of hard work, risks (several business startups) and good advice I’ve seen my lot improve.
The life-style delta between NZ and Oz will only get bigger with this tax change. I love NZ but at some point one has to consider where effort is best rewarded. At the moment that’s not here.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
krazykiwi
There are lots of people in your situation. Myself included. However what is funny is that in todays market people are leaving Uni qualified and in their first job hitting the “rich bastard” threshold. Massive student loan, new job and high taxes…. Way to go Labour – and we wonder why people qualify and split the country.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Go away and see if you can find some facts to prove people are better off under Cullen than Costello.
How do we define better off? Happier? Healthier? Fitter? Friendlier? Fatter? Warmer? Or just wealthier?
October 16th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Andrew,,
At the end of the day its all about mental health and well being
none of us need to be wealthy for those qualities , but we do need to know secure lives, and this politburo govt is attacking our personal security and therefore our sanity
Ther’s not enough wealthy in this country to let that agenda continue unnoposed
October 16th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Andrew Bannister
I would suggest that on a thread about tax cuts in Aussie the question is about take home pay. But your question is a valid side issue all the same.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
kk & burt – in the same boat as you guys. I lasted two terms at varsity, and never got back there. But the education I’ve received in the “school of hard knocks” was way more beneficial than anything I could have learnt in a classroom with the likes of roger nome preaching at me!
October 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
DR Killem is destroying our country , WHY do we have a 8 billion dollar surplus, who is the barren witch and dr killem going to bribe to keep this party of SOFT handed labour????workers ????in power , i get it (not tami iti) the ex pat NZ aussie workers ,JOKING, they have jobs there HERE we have foriegn owners, and chinese cheap dangerous products.J
October 16th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Labour stands for “the poor”. Obviously, just the non-working poor. The working poor can just keep paying taxes to subsidise rich kids through uni.
October 16th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
“Labour stands for “the poor”. Obviously, just the non-working poor. The working poor can just keep paying taxes to subsidise rich kids through uni.”
DDDDDDDRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLl
October 16th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
2006 figures from stats NZ – Income New Zealand population over 15
355,899 kiwis in the $10k -15k ?
In Australia starting rate for vineyard worker is $18 per hour
In lickspittleland rate is less than $12 per hour .
Go figure , you don’t know how lucky you are Fredrick ?
October 16th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
And another point: Aunty Helen won’t want those non-working poor who depend apon her to decide that working and earning money looks more attractive once they get to keep more of their earnings.
I love your response roger nome. red baiter couldn’t have said it better.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Please Philbest to compare redbaiter to that wimpster nome rogered rabbit is hardly far !!
October 16th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
I am a Kiwi, living and working in Australia. My Kiwi fiancee and I live in our first home, with a mortgage at an interest rate about three-quarters that of a comparable loan in NZ. The Australian government gave us a cash grant when we purchased the house – not a huge one, but it covered some of the paperwork costs and we accepted it gladly. The government gave us a cash handout when our son was born, and we also receive the Australian Family Tax Benefit which helps with childcare expenses. We have comprehensive health cover and our son was born in a private hospital. Both of us earn above the average wage and we already have a combined (compulsory) superannuation fund well into six figures. Our tax bill goes down every year with the exception of those years when we’ve moved into higher tax brackets.
If you think I’m moving home any time in the near future, you are !@#$%^& DREAMING.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
One day the socialists will wake up to a country destoryed by failed ideology. As more of our best and brightest leave who do they think will pick up the tab or are they to stupid or blind to see this. If I wasn’t a farmer I would have returned to Aussie as this government is killing what use to be a great country. I love this country but I fear my children will have to leave or stagnate under these morons in power. Cullen can talk all the shit he likes the fact remains that until NZ becomes an attractive place to live and work more and more planes will leave these shores full. Leaving only the socialists waisters but of course by then we will be the socialist paradise of the long white cloud.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
I think the main point of this post is that Dr. Cullen either;
a) Is telling lies about the Aussie tax cuts and what they are worth.
b) Has no idea how to do simple maths or how tax actually effects an individuals income.
Sadly I actually think it’s “b”. Still things are looking up, at least he didn’t say it’s only $10/week.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
and I think the problem is;
c) Kullen is a moronic caustic lardarse nutbar with little knowledge of the economy .
d) He is a communist with a broken miscalculated circuit in his head .
October 16th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
In Australia starting rate for vineyard worker is $18 per hour
In lickspittleland rate is less than $12 per hour .
How long has the NZ govt. had cap on wages? I didn’t realise they were stopping employers from paying more.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
He is using the old trick of citing the tax cut in nominal terms to show that the tax cuts are simply tax cuts for the rich.
Except he fcked it up badly.
It is about time (over due in fact) that people accept that Cullen has no stomach for any discussion of a reduction in tax rates.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Just a random thought….if 700 Kiwis move to Aussie every year (35,000pa), they’ll still get to vote in Kiwi elections, but I guess the polling companies don’t ring Sydney, Melbourne & Surfers when they are doing the various polls. Does that mean that the left is EVEN FURTHER behind the right than polling figures indicate?
October 16th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Is there any other country in the world with such huge surpluses and the government who does not want to reduce taxes?
I simply do not understand why so many voters in this country approve what happens.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Whoops! 700 every WEEK!
October 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Only Kiwis who have been in New Zealand within three years of the election date can vote. (This rendered me ineligible in the last election.)
October 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Peter2715626: It’s called WFF and NCEA
October 16th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Maybe Kullen is paid by the Chinese to hold tax cuts forcing more people to leave our shores, so it leaves more room for the red army to start up para military camps ?
October 16th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
The spirit of Redbaiter lives on! (btw – I agree!)
October 16th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Yeah, where is redbaiter?
October 16th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Where is my mate redbaiter ? If he doesn’t come back then I’m off .
October 16th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
“Where is my mate redbaiter ? If he doesn’t come back then I’m off .”
Awwww, it must be love!
October 16th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Tane: “Power companies are operating in a market, so you’re talking crap. And you’re paying a bit more of your post-$60,000 income in the 39% bracket? Cry me a river mate.”
Yes! Got ‘em! Gone!
Tane – those power companies buy their power from……the Government. The same Government that has pushed up prices relentlessly, and needlessly, for eight long years. Don’t blame the market for this: blame the socialist pigs who sell the power into the marketplace. The filthy, socialist scum. The slimy brown stuff that’s left on the toilet paper after one wipes one’s backside. Your ilk.
And as for the ‘Cry me a river’ comment, you have just proved that your only reason — the only reason any socialist has — for not reducing taxes is envy….pure envy.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
For those of you who cheer (good riddance) to the Kiwis (losers, dregs) permanently moving across the Tasman, take a look here:
Every One Counts
Among the key characteristics of the survey respondents are:
* More than 30% of respondents aged 25-44 years earn more than NZ100,000 per year, which would put them in the top 3% of income earners in New Zealand, according to the 2001 Census.
* Over 80% of respondents have tertiary qualifications, compared with 35% of the adult New Zealand population, according to the 2001 Census.
And for those who love OECD statistics:
* Among developed countries New Zealand has the highest proportion (24%) of its skilled workforce living outside the country.
So, typically, when a Kiwi moves overseas, they decrease the average income (and qualification) in NZ and increase the average income of whichever place they call home. This assumes that the average immigrant in NZ earns less than the average expat NZer – not hard to imagine as I doubt that 30% of immigrants are in the top 3% of earners. More than half of them come from lower-wage countries.
To quote an earlier poster on this thread:
“So who cares about the losers who leave?
Anyway isn’t that what the free market should be all about?”
I say the Govt should care.
Yes, it’s what the free (global employment) market is about. Unfortunately the NZ government is bending over backwards to ensure that high salary earners are NOT on its goodwill list. Lots of New Zealanders cheer that policy and the govt gets great political milage out of it.
We can all see the result though: low wages for NZ and the skilled people leaving.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
“We can all see the result though: low wages for NZ and the skilled people leaving.”
Not to mention less investment in new jobs here in NZ.
Excellent post Jim. Thank goodness for my qualifications….
October 16th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
“Tane – those power companies buy their power from……the Government. The same Government that has pushed up prices relentlessly, and needlessly, for eight long years. Don’t blame the market for this: blame the socialist pigs who sell the power into the marketplace.”
Yes – and that system was created by National in the 1990s – before that residential unit prices were half that of retail – now that situation has reversed. Thanks National.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
And well done to Labour for being in power for 8 years and doing nothing
October 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Tane, it’s a shame the new moderation rules don’t account for sheer moonbat-like stupidity. Going through your efforts on this thread leaves me thinking that on occasion I’ve probably had more intelligent sandwiches than you.
I’ve probably just earned myself some de-merits; if so, it was worth it!
October 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Tane said,
“David, I’m not sure what your point is with all these posts. NZ is not a high tax country by OECD standards, and no amount of selective use of facts will change that. So a right-wing government in Australia is cutting taxes as an election ploy. What’s your point?”
By NEW ZEALAND standards we are obscenely overtaxed…..WTF has the OECD got to do with this………own the issue here Tane and fess up to the rort!
October 16th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Roger – so why has the govt continued to push up the prices that it charges the power companies for the power?
October 16th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
“By NEW ZEALAND standards we are obscenely overtaxed…”
By what objective measure?
October 16th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
“Roger – so why has the govt continued to push up the prices that it charges the power companies for the power?”
Because they’ve inherited a system from National which sees the prices dictated by market rates (In fact the government isn’t the only power producer – there’s also trustpower and a couple of others).
October 16th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
To turn the power market around would require Labour to buy back the power generation capital the National sold off in the first place – prohibitively expensive.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Rubbish, roger. Absolute rot. And you know it.
Liar.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
“Rubbish, roger. Absolute rot. And you know it.Liar.”
Hope you’ve got some proof for that little smear toby …..
October 16th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Jim
Great link. Excellent resource. The survey bears out the theory that we are a country of travelers and one of our main exports is university educated high earning people.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
hey that’s a really interesting point Inventory2. all those ex-pat kiwis… how do they vote? unlikey they vote labour if they’ve left in disgust at the lifestyle delta that’s grown over this Labour govt’s term.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Just migrate to Aust. asap…..
The world will become your multi coloured oyster.
You will not have to pretend you’re living in Manchester being run by Harold Wilson.
Dropping the socialist load is something you have to experience.
And here’s the rub….even if Aust Labor gets up on 24 Nov… nothing will change at the core.
Sure, they’ll screw about with IR law until the capitalist workers roll them from the inside out.
The new Aust tax system is incredible for individuals.
Come on over, your kids will thank you forever.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
roger nome
Yes roger, the profitable ones that have been putting up prices for 8 years. The ones National made Labour make profit from.
You don’t get this do you. National have not been putting the prices up and taking dividends from them – Labour has.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
A special note to all builders. Anybody working on a house for roger nome should remember that high standards of workmanship are not required. If shoddy work causes roger injury he will blame the architect not the implementation.
Roger…. Work it out. National may have provided the levers – but it’s Labour who have been pulling them.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Does any one know how many Kiwis living in Australia bother to vote in NZ elections?
Could be fertile ground for the Nats to work, These people have experienced the fruit of good economic management and feel may feel pangs of sympathy for those stranded in the “Motherland”.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Reg
It would be a good job for the EB to do in time for 2008. Slap up posters around the place advertising familiar messages…
Did ya leave NZ for a tax cut ?
Help out a mate and vote National in the NZ elections so your mate can afford to have a holiday and visit you for a change.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Thrash Cardiom: no, the govt doesn’t control wages. But as a low wealth, low productivity and low GDP per head country, you can’t just put up wages and everything is good. Do you think that all the employers in the country can just put up their prices, or do you think that they are all getting obscenely rich at the moment and can afford to pay more?
The reality is that increased wages are a result of increased productivity. Increased productivity comes from people working harder and smarter, and from them educating themselves. That in turn comes from incentives, which this government is going out of its way to destroy.
The prescription of the right is that we reduce taxes (without reducing services, because we have a massive surplus). We work through marginal tax rates and other disincentives, so that people will see the benefit in getting paid more, instead of it all disappearing to the govt. This means that people take the initiative to be more productive, thereby increasing their income.
The prescription of Tane, Nome and the union boys is that we just all join a union, and the union pushes up wages. No need to increase productivity, no need to stop the govt taking all that increase, we just take it out of the excess profits the evil capitalists are making.
I know it is a valid philosophical viewpoint, but when you spell it out like that, it sounds rather silly. I didn’t realise there were still people out there who believed it. And definitely, as others have noted, reputable economists who don’t work for unions don’t believe it.
The bottom line is that over the last 10 years Australia has taken the first path, and NZ has tried to take the second path. The results speak for themselves. The Labour apologists are attempting to convince themselves and ourselves that actually NZ is completely unable to be successful due to the nature of our situation. I just don’t believe that, and I think that people that believe that shouldn’t be in control of our destinies.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Burt,
Yes, definitely a country of travelers; and I don’t begrudge that. There will always be NZ emigrants and many of them will be well educated.
I can’t help but wonder if a fair proportion have left for the wrong reason though. NZ can be a great place to live, and certainly a lot better than many of the places that expats end up.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
DDD ejaculates “Awwww, it must be love!”
Are you from the roger rabbit coward socialist weasel club ?
All nomes welcome to the lickspittle farm for the insane .
October 16th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
D4J
Ignore DDD, I think he’s Chris Trotter. Could be wrong… but evidence in argument style strongly suggests.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Part Maori NZ immigrants to Aust function outstandingly in this economy.
Where victimhood isn’t rewarded….guess what happens?
The number of victims greatly reduce.
Personal responsibilty shapes their lives….and they therefore prosper.
Try running some of the unemployable face painted welfare wankers from NZ on a tour over here…..Aussie Maori will be rolling in the aisles.
And now they have massive tax cuts as well…….it’s almost enough to create a new generation of capitalists from the failure of NZ socialism.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Paull,,
wow, magic word, incentives.
Been lost to the Kiwi vocabulary for so long.
When was the last time any govt gave this country incentives
Can anyone on this blog left or right produce a statement of any governmental incentives in the last ten years. If you can do that you can flat out shut up all you critics on kiwi Blog for a long time.
so,, who wants to start……
October 16th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
DDD – Chris Trotter well I’d be ? Talk about a cowardly leftist media . It cannot happen….Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas….socialist thieves in gummint could not allow the press in to report their corrupt and irregular practices.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
“To turn the power market around would require Labour to buy back the power generation capital the National sold off in the first place – prohibitively expensive”
A little dated but generation proportions don’t change fast:
http://www.stats.govt.nz/analytical-reports/business-activity-1999/bus-activity-stat-1999-electricity-industry-in-nz.htm?print=Y
You will note figure 1.03, which identifies the Government SOE’s with a total of 59% of the generating capacity in NZ.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
hinamanu
How about WFF – gives a great incentive to work less and have more kids!
October 16th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Any one got the actual stats of NZ citizens over 18 living in Australia?
October 16th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Nominal,,
I’ll tell ya what,,
If any family people on this blog say Wff works
I’ll give you head contender for incentives,,
See if Labour Tane backs you up
October 16th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Interesting quote from the former prime minister of Iceland, Davíð Oddsson, in 2004:
“In 1995, Treasury debt in Iceland was equivalent to more than 50 percent of GDP. Next year it is forecast to be down to 15 percent of GDP. The Icelandic Treasury is in a solid position and Iceland’s international credit rating has never been better. This success has been achieved not in spite of extensive tax cuts but, to a great degree, because of them.”
October 16th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Does Australia have a scabrous Kangaroo government jumping from rort to scandal week after bloody week ? Its gives me the screaming shits , but then again, what do I expect as Australia had the decency to treat mothers and fathers as equal parents in the United Nations declaration on the family . What a disgrace this Labour government is . Snap election please , pretty please , oh the agony of this feminazi cultist regime is unbearable for any sane man to take for a prolonged period . Talking about periods, do childless reptile’s have them ?
October 16th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Pommie socialist, our own cloth capped Mickey Cullin, is a true believer in the standard Labor cant that says the money you earn is better appropriated from you by govt than kept by you as wealth.
You either agree or disagree.
If you think he’s full of bovine faeces……then Aust beckons.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
feminazi,,
I’m impressed,,
I know thats not your word
October 16th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
well,,
he’s not full of bovine faeces,,
thats exactly what he says and means
October 16th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
I called Hillary Clinton a feminazi bitch a couple years back and she blocked my comments on her blog snog bro .
Good night .
October 16th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
D4J.
Are you hopeing Bill will increase your benefit if Natioonal gets in.
I would suggest, fat chance, so may be you should move to Aust, they may pay more there to be a bludger and live care of the Govt.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
And here we have the complete list of Nationals policies for election 08
tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts
May 2008 “fuck”
October 16th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
This thread is proving the old saying.
New Zealanders. Over taxed or overseas.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
… or Over Labour
October 16th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Look guys….
If you let failed Pommie socialists who might make a local council over there ,absolute max ambition, come to the colonies and fall on their feet in a very small pond…..you deserve what you get.
Aust has 21st century adult management…..either party.
Your wealth deserves no less.
Poor Kiwis.
Only the takers will reamain.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Tina
Yep, already onto the exit plan.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Wow, disappear for a few hours and there are a dozen or so questions for me. Sorry guys, but I’m going to have to pass on those and go to sleep. Happy to be your figure of hate though.
As for IV2, who said “Tane finishes for the day at 4pm and he’s gooooooooone…”, it was actually 5 o’clock and I was off to a meeting that finished at 10 o’clock. But hey, live in that fantasy world if you wish bro.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:11 am
Reminder – All Kiwis in Aussie and other countries, please vote. Several posters seem to think that Helen is glad to have people leave, as if they then can’t vote. They can and should.
I’ve never missed a vote… the last two elections I’ve voted from Moscow and the UK.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:40 am
“I can’t help but wonder if a fair proportion have left for the wrong reason though. NZ can be a great place to live, and certainly a lot better than many of the places that expats end up.”
Student loans.
We put the highest debt burden on young people with very limited ability to pay them back on NZ wages.
Once overseas there is little incentive to pay them off.
October 17th, 2007 at 2:22 am
Swampash
NZ citizens can vote in NZ elections even when living overseas. You do need to be on the Electoral Roll which means being listed at a NZ address somewhere which is easily done via relatives in NZ.
All NZ Consulates hold copies of the latest electoral rolls and you can cast an overseas special vote at the consulate for the electorate where you maintain your enrolment back in NZ. I have voted in Australia when I lived there a while back and I’ve voted twice in the US. It is a hassle if you don’t live in a city with a US Consulate as you do need to vote in person.
October 17th, 2007 at 2:26 am
” I have voted in Australia when I lived there a while back and I’ve voted twice in the US.”
You need to have been living in New Zealand within the last three years or some time frame like that.
October 17th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Labour lies — your wallet dies.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:39 am
Labour spies – your freedom dies .
October 17th, 2007 at 5:17 am
Kiwi in America – I voted last time by fax. I downloaded the appropriate form from the web and faxed it in. That may have been new, as I did vote from a consulate the time before.
Natural Party of Govt – Almost, but not quite that strict. You only have to have visited once in the last three years. I think many expats would meet that criteria. I also don’t think they check.
More on both those points here: http://www.elections.org.nz/voting/how_vote_overseas.html
Again, I strongly urge all expats to vote. I especially urge those who left because of something they didn’t like about NZ to vote for the party they think is most likely to fix that problem… you owe it to those still there.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:30 am
“….I was off to a meeting that finished at 10 o’clock.”
Tane, were you attending a hui (kai provided, of course)? Do you call that work?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:35 am
I am one of the tertiary educated young people who has gone overseas. It it not just the fact that the money is bad in NZ it is that even in supposedly lucrative professions like engineering, law, medicine, dentistry, at the age of 30 the young people who made the massive investment in time and money to get their qualification are a long way behind their non-tertiary educated peers in the race for financial security. We are not valued here so we leave, in droves, and we feel a little sad that we were never told that one of the preconditions of making our educations payoff was leaving the country. The most annoying thing is that everyone then says “Well, typically NZ’ers do an OE, that is just the way it is.” That BS. It is the tertiary educated NZ’ers who leave for periods of time and we leave because we can’t get ahead here. We come back because we are NZ’ers but we can’t come back until we have made enough money to be comfortable. The reason people are going for longer is because they are being required to go further into debt, that is a fairly simply equation that even Cullen should be able to understand.
The danger for NZ is that many of these people may never come back. Perhaps being forced to stay overseas for 4 or 5 years to get ahead financially pushes people past the tipping point such that they lose any vestigal loyalty or nostalgia for NZ. But it is looking like we may all return to Australia so we can come and visit you guys!!
October 17th, 2007 at 5:37 am
We do have a massive problem with skilled people leaving, and the government knows it.
You may remember that last year they boasted they were having a big push to get “skilled migrants” in. A little detail they did not tell us however is that they had changed the definition of a skilled migrant. Earlier, a skilled migrant had 180 points (typically a UK trained doctor or similar). The government lowered this to only 100 points (an dubious engineer trained in the back blocks of bombay), and they bought lots of them in.
So we have a serious problem, our government does not seem willing or able to face up to the urgent question, why don’t skilled, highly paid people want to come here, and how much damage are we doing to NZ long term with current policies?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:39 am
“Tane, were you attending a hui (kai provided, of course)? Do you call that work?”
Tane is your classic socialist suckhole , that is, a lazy bastard that wouldn’t work in an iron lung !! Just look at the state of the liarbour Minister of Maori Para Military groups , he is fatter than that triple chin Cindy Kiro bitch !!
October 17th, 2007 at 5:58 am
We are doing a sh*tload of damage to NZ with the current policies. I can only see it ending two ways: Either we will see the wage and salary range stretch out more (in NZ skilled / qualified labour does not attract the premium it used to) so that skilled and qualified people are once more adequately rewarded and fewer people able to afford good quality professional services or we will see the dumbing down and fragmenting of (mostly professional) service markets (classic example is the recent comment by Pete Hodgson that our doctors are overtrained compared to many countries and that they could be educated in a shorter time – expect to see that idea quietly pushed along with increasing responsibility for Nurse practitioners). What is surprising is that a lot of non tertiary educated / unqualified people really don’t know how little highly qualified people get paid ( I have a friend who is a civil engineer, very bright, started on roundabout 40K made it up up to 60K after four years where it has sort of plateaued), as for how doctors and dentists are screwed over in NZ, the amazing thing is that any stay at all!
October 17th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Burt
Chris Trotter?! Hilarious!!!
D4J – you’re pathetic. Not funny. Not clever. Not a man. About as far from a role model as you could get.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:14 am
Oh forgive me DDD, as I confused you with a communist writer, however you are a circus performer in a cage , aren’t you , roll on up folks and see a DDD on sulphuric acid . Have a good day, please don’t forget to take a pill and fume all day weirdo !! What a country of twisted cowards . Helen Clark has a lot to answer for as she has destroyed all decency in our country .
October 17th, 2007 at 7:26 am
D4J: Helen Clark has a lot to answer for as she has destroyed all decency in our country
Coming from you that is very, very rich. Go read your own posts, but imagine somebody wrote them about you. Then come back and talk about decency again.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:38 am
When it gets around the world that we have a “terrorist” problem who’s going to want to come here to contribute in a positive way.
NZ’s greatest exports are now protein and brains.
Taxation is about taking fairly to provide adequate services for all, it has nothing to do with maintaining some kind of sick control over people.
Did Cullen really say we are too poor to afford tax cuts.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Did you know that treasury have a working paper called An Analysis of Tax Revenue Forescast Errors; Keenen and Thomson, March 07. It provides some solutions to the constant under estimating of the surplus’s. Maybe, just maybe, if he read a the report (Ask Winston how to read reports…) he might realise that he has more money AND that he can give some back.
(Yes that’s right, Treasury have released a report on how Treasury gets it wrong…sigh)
October 17th, 2007 at 8:06 am
Tane, were you attending a hui (kai provided, of course)? Do you call that work?
So, you assume that because I’m Maori I’m off at a hui eating kai? What the fuck is wrong with you people?
October 17th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Has anyone got figures for the proportion of citizens of a range of countries that are expatriats? NZ with 1mil out of 5mil must be one of the worst if not THE worst.
The socialists just never get it, do they? They won’t be able to find a tradesman to fix their leak or their power outage, soon. Not to mention not being able to find a doctor when their kids are crook. But they’ll never make the connection with their stupid ideology and what it does to a nation.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Oh they will always be able to find a tradesman or a doctor, just not one that does the job safely or to a professional standard.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
RossK I have a daughter moving from Sydney after 2 years to london and a son looking to join his sister. My wife and I did our OE in the 70s and returned to NZ Sadly I fear our children will not return certainly not until this country has a government that values people with a good work ethic instead of rewarding the lazy the drunks the druggies and all the no hopers in society.
We have had governments of all persuasion over the past 3 decades that have treated the hard working citizens like a pile of shit and an ATM to take money out of.
They have showed us nothing but arrogance and contempt and so we must show them the same Until they learn to show us the respect we deserve I say treat them like a dog turd on the soles of your shoes.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Putting the topic of tax aside, but not entirely off the main gist of this thread. I worked for 12 weeks in 2001 in South Australia as a pharmacist. Most of the medicines I was dispensing I had never heard of. I hit the books and realised that they were generations ahead of the medicines available in NZ. So another area where our Australian cousins are better off. If labour are succesful in 2008 I will go back to dispensing medicines I have never heard of and hit the books once again. Very little in the way of new medines have hit the shelves in NZ in the past six years. I bet there are plenty in OZ.