Trotter Says Vote National
In his IFR column yesterday hard core leftie Chris Trotter said:
New Zealand should probably hope for a National victory, too.
So does this mean Chris has seen the light and repented? Well, not quite. Chris goes on to explain:
A defeat for the Right in November would be all too likely to encourage conservatism’s most dim-witted and violent adherents to take Von Clausewitz at his word and “continue politics by other means”.
So Chris is just saying people should vote National, because if you don’t we’re all going to start rioting in the streets.
This is one of the reasons why People Power do harm beyond the odd smashed window. They allow Chris to paint a picture of thousands of violent rightists just waiting to go on the rampage if National should lose the election. It’s about as likely as Tame Iti voting ACT.
Earlier in the column, Chris covers the events of 2005 election reasonably fairly:
However, the Right’s conviction that they were robbed of victory in 2005 is not entirely fanciful. The money the Labour Party used to pay for Helen Clark’s infamous “pledge card” came from a public fund which at least two responsible state officials had warned it not to use. That arguably illegal decision freed-up the half-million dollars the party needed to bank-roll its South Auckland strategy. That Labour was able to edge past National in the final hours of election night was due, in no small measure, to campaign over-spending.
The Right’s rage was not abated when the final election returns showed a narrow majority of votes had been cast for the Centre-Right. The combined total of votes for the parties of the Centre-Left (Labour, Progressive, Green) was 1,082,281 (48.1%) while the Centre-Right (National, Act, NZ First, United Future) secured 1,115,257 (49.6%).
Chris hasn’t classified the Maori Party as Centre-Right or Centre-Left. Also I get slightly different percentages as there were a total of 2,275,629 valid votes. Maybe Chris is going off total votes for parties which made it into Parliament which is 2,245,801. Let’s see – that might be it as that gives the CR 49.7% and CL 48.2%.
Incidentially while I have heard many people rage about the illegal overspending of some $400K to $800K by Labour, I’ve not heard many claim that the CR got more votes than the CL. I certainly tend to regard the Maori Party as more CL than CR, which puts the CL marginally ahead of the CR. Even if you add Destiny into the CR vote that gives you 1,129,467 for the CR and 1,130,544 for the CL – almost a tie – only 1,077 votes in it.
February 28th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Isn’t it illegal to tell people who they should vote for??
http://www.votelabour.org.nz
February 28th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Trotter, on the pledge-card stolen money issue, a few months ago said something like “in politics, the ends can sometimes justify the means”.
Now he is railing against that approach because it would not be to his favour?
Really, every single day of every single week the left shows absolute and complete hypocrisy in some area or another. Their credibility is nil.
February 28th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Trotter has been viciously attacking his own side in the last 4 weeks or so.
And I struggle to see how he may be doing so simply because he is some sort of “journalist / commentator” who needs a bit of balance. He stood main stage at the labour conference singing hand in hand with clark et al recently. He’s a strange man, a strange man. Or maybe I am confusing that with a simply enormous ego.
February 28th, 2008 at 7:49 am
vto, I think he is just applying for the role of Cassandra to Helen’s Priam.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:11 am
The Stooges at The Standard will recoil in horror!
February 28th, 2008 at 8:16 am
The Stooges at The Standard will recoil in horror!
I expect he will get the same treatment as Owen Glenn. He will be labeled as a traitor and cast aside, probably called a right winger in socialist clothing.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:16 am
“continue politics by other means”.
means that people will ignore the law and it’s intent as often as possible. It doesn’t mean throwing bricks through windows.
It means, for example, that if an employer had their choice to choose who to hire removed by law, they would find other reasons and ways not to hire those they didn’t want.
It means, for example, that social law can be underminded by collective groups as long as they maintain a certain silence.
Sounds familiar, huh? Omerta? Well, now you know how the Sicillian mafia was born: The French went too far and the people took over. Or how about the various resistence groups during WW2? The historical examples are endless. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. The problem of course is that people don’t stop abusing power just because they are fighting an oppressive regime. Labour runs the risk of increasing organised opposition to central government the longer it ignores it’s core responsibilities. They of course will charge ahead because they are possibly the most obscenely arrogant, and ignorant of history, political force this country has ever seen. Quite ironic, given their background.
The message to the Left is clear though: get out of matters that do not concern you or you will be forced out – one way or another.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Have the People Power people “done harm”, or have they simply illustrated to Trotter and others that they could represent the tip of an emerging voter iceburg? Given the media coverage, and that the term “brick chuckers” has now entered the political lexicon, it seems like a pretty good return for a couple of bricks?
February 28th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Ive always thought the likes of People Power would more likely be elements from the Left trying to make the Right look bad, the easiest way to turn an arguement in your favour is to get someone to do something you know the majority of the public will be appalled by, then come out railing against what has happened – much like the whole daedulus_x = Sam Dixon affair, he came along to make the right look like a bunch of nutjobs, he tried to turn the arguements onto aspects that even most right wingers were appalled by – then by arguing against what he was saying, the likes of Tane, Nome et el got a free’r platform to spew forth their bile without the more moderate right wingers argueing with them as they didnt want to look like they were associated (or excusing) daedulus_x. If I was National, Id be looking out for over the top statements or actions by ‘right wing’ groups this election – I wouldnt be completely shocked if those ‘right wing’ groups turned out to be full of the likes of Tane, Dixon and Nome.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Calling Trotter a hard core leftie? He hunts with the hounds and runs with the hares.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:42 am
I laughed, Bevan. Doing something like that on a blog is one thing – going out and throwing bricks through windows and generally acting like an asshat? I can’t see even Tane doing something like that. “Blood in the streets” Millsy maybe. But not Tane.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Trotters comparison to the political carrying-ons to war is an interesting one and the accompanying photo to his IFR article has one actor dressed out of character. I don’t think he would wear that style of cap. Certainly lots of shots are being fired at the moment.
An important tactic in the conduct of military operations is the diversionary operation. Often these operations are conducted to encourage the opposing force to divert vital resources away from the main objective.
Is Cunnliffe’s current operation on the Hawke Bay DHB a diversionary tactic? He is certainly trying to divert attention from what seems more likely to be a more important and vital target for Labour to defend. The Hausmann affair with accompnaying players is a real problem that demands a ruthless defence operation. The oppositon need to exploit what is now a tactical weakness.
Concentrate their forces, pinpoint the enemy and deliver overwhelming firepower to destroy the opponent. But most importantly don’t lose sight of the aim and always retain the vital high ground.
Well thats how Trotter would write it up based on his new found military intellectualism.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Or is Trotter recognising that the economy is about to go so horribly wrong that it would be better, for the long term interests of socialism, if a right-of-centre administration were to have to sort out the problems, incurring the wrath of the populace as it does so?
National has already signalled its reluctance to overturn legislation of the past eight years, so the socialist “clock” is unlikely to be turned back.
The 2011 elections, or 2014 at worst, would see a return of a Labour-led Government (including Andrew Little) with a revitalised economy in place, ripe for the picking by the profligate left.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Yeah, Destiny would support a CR bloc, but to suggest Destiny (or its successor, the Family Party) is centre-right is to compare World War II to Operation Desert Fox.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Get the feeling that Gerry is right. The socialists have got all century to achieve their goals. They are willing to take one step back now to go forward 3 in the future.
They are well satisfied with their social engineering progress over the last 8 years. They have been extremely fortunate that the economy has been trucking along, but now as it turns to custard they are probably thinking that it’s better to bide their time. Hence people like Little holding off.
Clark and Cullen will be happy to take it for the team at the next election. Nothing like being a matyr to live forever.
Just as a leopard doesn’t change its spots, Trotter is merely planting seeds to be reaped some time in the future.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Sorry to threadjack but William F. Buckley died just a few hours ago. Will be interesting to see the commentary from all sides in the US and whether any media outside the US will take any notice!!
February 28th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Gerry and bwakile, agreed.
It seems to always be the way, those on the rightish will end up making the tough calls and doing the grind to bring in the dollars for all to enjoy (and fritter away). (There is near zero chance that those on the leftish would have the ability to do this role). Is it too much to suggest that this is merely a reflection of what happens in most people’s individual, community and family lives anyway? That’s our job. Bring in the bread. And stop moaning.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:29 am
you live in a very very strange ‘world’..don’t you bwalkie..?
and as for trotter..?
“..He’s a strange man, a strange man. Or maybe I am confusing that with a simply enormous ego…”
both..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am
So Chris is just saying people should vote National, because if you don’t we’re all going to start rioting in the streets.
Although I enjoy Chris’s work immensely, despite disagreeing with his politics, about one in four columns of his are about somebody or other rioting in the streets.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:35 am
your in luck..tom hunter..!
whoar is always ‘first’..!
(didn’t you know that..?..)
in whoar archives you’ll find vid footage of a young buckley debating a young chomsky..
i’m sure many of you gimlet-eyed righties will enjoy that..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 9:43 am
rob..(heh-heh..!..)
if it’s not wild-eyed vegans..it’s ‘foaming’ righties..
and one thing that amuses me about trotter..
is that he thinks he is ‘fooling us all’..(!)..
and that mess/mix of smugness/arrogance/outright ‘confusion’..
leads to his (often) hillariously funny ‘predictions’..
here’s my prediction..
come one year from now..
trotter will still be writing delusional/fantasist crap..
dpf will link to it..
i’ll say just how it is that ‘pile of crap’..
(thus the circle is completed..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 9:50 am
for tom..(ahem..!..link..)
http://whoar.co.nz/2008/conservative-spokesperson-william-f-buckley-has-died/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Looks like I was wrong, the knife wont come from the chaps at the Standard, ol Phil brought it along here! Whoar, no love lost between lefties eh?
February 28th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Yes Philu
I guess running my own business for 20 years would be a strange world to the likes of you.
However my thoughts are based on history and human nature, not drugs.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:58 am
bevan..repeat after me..
singing ‘the workers flag is deepest red ‘..
..on a stage with (rightwing) labour politicians..
..does not necessarily a ‘leftie’ make..
(look to his paymasters..)
trotter seems to have moved from an (idealistic?/opportunistic?) ’socialism’ of his younger years..
..into a cartoonish colonel-blimp-like figure..
..who seems ‘lost’/deeply confused..
..and not only in his ideologies..
as he fulminates against his greatest fears..
vegans..and (obviously now) young nats..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 10:02 am
I recall election night in 2005 and trotts was in front of the camera with tears in his eyes as the early results rolled in. It appeared that his beloved left were looking like they were in for a good old arse kicking. In a low serious voice he warned that should the right pick up the election the streets would “run with blood”. For fucks sake this man has not changed his spots, once again this slug is appealing to left that should the right win there will once again be blood in the streets. He is calling the troops to the front line in an epic struggle against the right (bad) and the left (good). All he really is trying to do is scare the horses. I think Mr Trotter has yelled “blood in the streets” to many times and the punters now hear “wolf”. He has no wish to see National govern to believe so is simply naive.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Could it be No it couldnt possible be that the 1077 vote difference was those in South Aucland who followed the old adage and voted early and voted often
Agree with the comments that CT and the Socialists have a long term plan Be in government when the global economys doing well and be in Opposition when its tanking.
Smart move That way you can blame the other side for what is in reality a global cause as most of your supporters are too think and stupid to know any different
February 28th, 2008 at 10:20 am
phil
Much appreciated link – thanks
February 28th, 2008 at 10:33 am
After reading whoar’s last comment I reckon his soy latte of this morning was spiked with some exotic oils and a few flakes of toasted hemp.
Be careful philu, even a connoisseur of the heady stuff like yourself should not overindulge this often.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Thanks for proving me right phil.
I expect he will get the same treatment as Owen Glenn. He will be labeled as a traitor and cast aside, probably called a right winger in socialist clothing.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:42 am
At least Philu has the common courtesy of using double line spacing so is comments are easy to spot and move straight past.
Big ups Phil
February 28th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Perhaps Trotter is trying to be clever and this is part of some elaborate ploy to fool those of perceived lesser brain than he.
If so then he is only fooling himself. This is a common trait of the ‘left’. They always always always complicate matters and think things are trickier than they are. The Keep It Simply Stupid principle flies over their heads. To their own detriment.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:28 am
# vto Add karma Subtract karma +4 Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 7:41 am
“Trotter, on the pledge-card stolen money issue, a few months ago said something like “in politics, the ends can sometimes justify the means”.
Now he is railing against that approach because it would not be to his favour?
Really, every single day of every single week the left shows absolute and complete hypocrisy in some area or another. Their credibility is nil.”
Right on, VTO.
Isn’t it strange how “The end justifies the means” for the Left, when the means is killing and starving millions, and the End is universal misery, yet for Libertarians and Lassez-Faire economics supporters, the “end” is massive increases in prosperity, yet they wouldn’t DREAM of ever killing for it?
February 28th, 2008 at 11:42 am
WOULD Kiwis take to the streets if the Clarkists won the next election?
You know, it’s a curious thing, but among the people I bump into in the course of MY life and livelihood, I find scarcely ANYONE who is a Helen Clark supporter.
Probably there is two separate “New Zealands”. It is a pity that there can’t be more clear distinctions in the world of nations, so that the lefties, the soft welfarists and the social engineers can all run one country THEIR way and the rest of us can get on with life in some other land. What about splitting NZ into North Island / South Island along these lines?
The results of this sort of thing usually are pretty stark.
It is a pity that so many Western countries have to have such a mixture of productive sector and strong society, with lefty political parties and their supporters dragging the overall wellbeing down.
But back to Clark winning the next election: I suspect she is morally capable of “rigging” it and also suspect that she has enough stooges in the right places to actually do so. Look at the number of times the NZ Plods have already gone “move along, nothing to see here………” when it was not looking good for the Clarkists…….
February 28th, 2008 at 11:46 am
On Trotter’s comment:”A defeat for the Right in November would be all too likely to encourage conservatism’s most dim-witted and violent adherents to take Von Clausewitz at his word and “continue politics by other means”.
I don’t see why Trotter wouldn’t be perfectly happy for this to happen, because then “legitimately elected” PM Helen Clark could call on her very, very, very good friends in the Chinese Government to provide the necessary to restore order…….
February 28th, 2008 at 11:56 am
The Secretary-General
United Nations
Dear Mr Ki-Boon
New Zealand is scheduled to hold a General Election later in 2008. Due to certain events at the last election in 2005 and subsquently I would urge you to consider sending Observers to ensure the upcoming election is both free and fair.
I would be prepared to assist the Observers to ensure that their efforts where directed to the most likely sources of disruption in particular The Labour Party of New Zealand.
I would appreciate you giving my request the utmost attention to ensure that New Zealand can be included amongst those countries who can demonstrate good governance principles
I remain yours etc
February 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
It’s very appropriate to bring up another of his past articles – “Dark memories of dynamite”. An interesting insight into his mindset – and amusing in a sick way, considering his recent ‘callout’ of Minto.
http://stuff.co.nz/4253425a1861.html
I made the comment in the “Trotter on Minto” thread that what we were seeing there was double think – whereas this article is Trotter projecting his inner fantasies onto others. What is the point of calling out a “far-left” radical and telling them that political violence is NOT OK, only to reveal his own violent fantasies of the past and recall disturbingly similar actual events.
As Trotter says of Pat McQuarrie – “what was he willing to do to stop the tour”. Well he was willing to threaten to crash a plane into a crowd of spectators for a bloody rugby game, and that threat was the key to achieving one of the objectives of the protest movement. In what way is the motivation different from the current crowd that Minto is running with? Presumably those people also have a cause that is going to make them, perhaps has made them, “do some very dangerous things”.
In twenty years time will a future Chris Trotter-type emerge from the current crop to talk of such things, absolve themselves as “good people” and “decent, caring New Zealanders” who were simply driven to desperate lengths by an oppressive state and the failure of their fellow citizens to heed the call?
It’s just the same old, ‘high-moral-ground’ bullshit that leftists cling to. Their civil rights were infringed by faceless men with batons and charges over ridiculous offences and it’s an outrage? Yes, it was. But now that it’s the police under a Labour government? Less outrage it would seem.
As for the idea that Trotter and co. trampled all over the civil rights of their fellow New Zealanders when they invaded that ground and relied upon a threat of massive violence to get a rugby game canceled?
Naaaah – the idea that that might be ethically unacceptable and outside the bounds of democracy never occurred to any protest group – either then or later. On the contrary, most were and still are proud of that particular effort, and Trotters latter-day thoughts hardly seem like a distancing. The gap-toothed rednecks had been lectured and fully informed about the bad ethical decision they were making in attending the game and they still went ahead anyway: outrageous! As a result, their civil rights would just have to take a backseat to a higher morality – and if those people chose to fight back about such a loss of civil rights such violence could simply be called a pogrom to denigrate and deligitimise them still further – as opposed to the other sides pure and virtuous violence and threats of violence.
Perhaps what Trotter should have addressed is the frequency with which left-wing true believers in some cause used the same rationale in the past, and the likelihood that they will do so in the future. After all, aside from the current kerfuffle, we have a steadily growing drumbeat from environmentalists about ‘climate criminals’ who refuse to listen: at what stage will it become necessary to ’stop’ them by appealing to a ‘higher morality’ than democratic ‘lawnorder’ – all for the common good of course.
February 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Tom
Um, actually you’re wrong. Trotter indeed has indulged the same paranoid fantasies that you seem to.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4248869a1861.html
February 28th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
PM
I tend not to hang on his every word so was not aware of that article. Thanks.
But it would be more accurate to say that I was half-right. He has indeed examined the possibilities of environmentalists using violence in future.
He has based that analysis on a lifetime of in-house knowledge and experience within the left and kept the focus on the long-standing political question of “exploring the case for armed struggle” – hardly a paranoid stance, especially in light of the fact that such people (and their fantasies) do exist.
You should note my use of the word ‘AND’ – he has not examined the left wing’s past employment of violence and threats of violence to get their own way, let alone how such tactics appear repeatedly within socialist and anarchist ‘movements’. In your implied confidence that the groups you run with could never do such things here in NZ, you don’t seem to have done so either.
…Trotter indeed has indulged the same paranoid fantasies that you seem to.
I’d be careful chucking the ‘paranoid’ tag around, even if it does seem to you like a winning debating tactic. Not only is it merely pejorative rather than an argument it can also rebound:
What am I doing this Sunday morning? oh I don’t know, freaking out about the fact that we are on the cusp of global recession yet no one in New Zealand’s blogsphere seems to have a clue about it
February 28th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Tom Hunter:
Context! It’s all about context!
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/07/what_are_you_all_doing_up_on_sunday_morning.html#comment-321974
February 28th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
I’m beginning to think philu’s denunciation of Trotter is all a smokescreen and in fact they’ve been spending their evenings sharing the vaporiser.
Such histrionics from Trotter are unsurprising – what continues to amaze me is the MSM dredging him up ad infinitum as a commentator when quite clearly he’s lost what tenuous grip he once had on reality.
Then again, perhaps Trotter has previously mistaken the sight of a few splashes of Pinot Noir for blood, as the bottom lips of distraught Young Nats quivered with sorrow at another loss.
I suspect, though, that he knows full well that “conservatisms most dimwitted and violent adherents” aren’t mainstream party supporters at all, and that a resounding victory of National over Labour at the next election would bring them little joy. Such people seldom vote – unless the National Front happens to field a candidate – and generally confine their violence to small helpless animals and their defactos.
To suggest such people will start looting and rioting over something like a Labour majority is fanciful in the extreme, and shows just how direly in need of a cool flannel and a lie down the poor man is.
February 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Helena Clarkus strode into the Senate pavillion on the Ides of March. Outwardly her presence conveyed a quiet air of confidence, but inwardly she was in a deep mental turmoil . Why she asked herself; for her successes were so great and so many: she had out flanked her pretenders in the legislature to occupy the premier position in the triumvirate of the sisterhood, she had pacified the plebians with he popular Working For Familia, she had silenced the Patricians with her controversial Electoral reforms and removed any possibility of a military coup by degrading the famous legions to a peace keeping militia and reducing the once proud navy to just two galleys. But all this was over shadowed by a dreadful foreboding of impending gloom.
A quick movement behind her indicated to mind so steeped in the nuances of politics that she was in immenint
February 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
is that a personal ‘best’..?
(i got seven thumbsdown last comment..!..)
is there an over-all rating..?..dpf..?
y’know..!
who got most thumbs up..?
(and my specialty..)..who got most thumbs-down..?..)
me..!..me..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Sorry accidentally submitted I’ll try again.
Helena Clarkus strode into the Senate pavilion on the Ides of March. Outwardly her presence conveyed a quiet air of confidence, but inwardly she was in a deep mental turmoil . Why she asked herself? For her successes were so great and so many: she had out flanked her pretenders in the legislature to occupy the premier position in the triumvirate of the sisterhood, she had pacified the plebeians with he popular Working For Familia, she had silenced the Patricians with her controversial Electoral reforms and removed any possibility of a military coup by degrading the famous legions to a peace keeping militia and reducing the once proud navy to just two galleys. But all this was over shadowed by a dreadful foreboding of impending gloom.
A quick movement behind her indicated to mind -so steeped in the nuances of politics- that she was in immediate danger. She spun around to hear a cry from the Auditor Generale “speak hands for me”. Her body guards had fled, the trusted Stevus Mahari and Magi Wilsona had slunk into the shadows. Philus Goffi looked on with a cruel smile but remained still while alas the great Clarkus was surrounded by the menacing knives of her enemies. Grannius Herald struck first, nursing 91 years of prejudice her dagger went in. Then the spear of Jean Tamiheri and the sword Pedro Dunni and then and only then all hope left her, it was the sight of the loyal Christopheria Trottae thrusting his poison pen at her slowing heart. Alas all was lost she fell whispering those immortal words ET TU TROTTAE.
February 28th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Sorry accidentally submitted early I’ll try again.
Helena Clarkus strode into the Senate pavilion on the Ides of March. Outwardly her presence conveyed a quiet air of confidence, but inwardly she was in a deep mental turmoil . Why she asked herself? For her successes were so great and so many: she had out flanked her pretenders in the legislature to occupy the premier position in the triumvirate of the sisterhood, she had pacified the plebeians with he popular Working For Familia, she had silenced the Patricians with her controversial Electoral reforms and removed any possibility of a military coup by degrading the famous legions to a peace keeping militia and reducing the once proud navy to just two galleys. But all this was over shadowed by a dreadful foreboding of impending gloom.
A quick movement behind her indicated to mind -so steeped in the nuances of politics- that she was in immediate danger. She spun around to hear a cry from the Auditor Generale “speak hands for me”. Her body guards had fled, the trusted Stevus Mahari and Magi Wilsona had slunk into the shadows. Philus Goffi looked on with a cruel smile but remained still while alas the great Clarkus was surrounded by the menacing knives of her enemies. Grannius Herald struck first, nursing 91 years of prejudice her dagger went in. Then the spear of Jean Tamiheri and the sword Pedro Dunni and then and only then all hope left her, it was the sight of the loyal Christopheria Trottae thrusting his poison pen at her slowing heart. Alas all was lost she fell whispering those immortal words ET TU TROTTAE.
February 28th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Trotter has a clear history of talking about violence and politics, in NZ’s past, present and future. It could be perceived that he is encouraging it in certain circumstances (one-sided of course). I think he treads dangerous ground.
He is clearly obsessed with violence as a tool.
February 28th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Sorry accidentally submitted early I’ll try again.
Helena Clarkus strode into the Senate pavilion on the Ides of March. Outwardly her presence conveyed a quiet air of confidence, but inwardly she was in deep mental turmoil . Why she asked herself? For her successes were so great and so many: she had out flanked her pretenders in the legislature to occupy the premier position in the triumvirate of the sisterhood, she had pacified the plebeians with he popular Working For Familia, she had silenced the Patricians with her controversial Electoral reforms and removed any possibility of a military coup by degrading the famous legions to a peace keeping militia and reducing the once proud navy to just two galleys. But all this was overshadowed by a dreadful foreboding of impending gloom.
A quick movement behind her indicated to her mind -so steeped in the nuances of politics- that she was in immediate danger. She spun around to hear a cry from the Auditor Generale “speak hands for me”. Her body guards had fled, the trusted Stevus Mahari and Magi Wilsona had slunk into the shadows. Philus Goffi looked on with a cruel smile but remained still while alas the great Clarkus was surrounded by the menacing knives of her enemies. Grannius Herald struck first, nursing 91 years of prejudice her dagger went in. Then the spear of Jean Tamiheri and the sword Pedro Dunni and then and only then all hope left her, it was the sight of the loyal Christopheria Trottae thrusting his poison pen at her slowing heart. Alas all was lost she fell whispering those immortal words ET TU TROTTAE.
February 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
i liked the first one better..colin..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Phil
Hey – I actually gave you a thumbs up for the link to the Buckley-Chomsky debate – reduced you to (-4) for that one.
I see I got a (-1) when I thanked you for the link! Boy, some people must really hate you!
February 28th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Tom, Phule is easily summed up.
In his own words – me..!..me..!
February 28th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Tom:
“But it would be more accurate to say that I was half-right. He has indeed examined the possibilities of environmentalists using violence in future.”
Nah – you said that he should talk about how environmentalists are going to start blowing up the country soon because they’re all crazy. Problem was Trotter had already voiced that paranoid and unsupported opinion. So you were wrong in assuming that he hadn’t expressed crazed fantasies similar to your own. Great minds think i suppose
oh and BTW, you would probably be wise to not dismiss the the very real threat that conventional oil scarcity poses to the global economy. Suffice to say, very few people who know anything about the global oil industry are so dismissive as you appear to be. Take this from the International Energy Agency (group of 150 researchers funded by the OECD) for example:
So we’re dependant on dictators for any increased oil supply after 2010. Yep nothing to worry about there. Move along….
February 28th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
tom..chicky is easily summed up..
in his own words..
..’little’…’chicken’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
February 28th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Whoa, Got me with that one Phule.
No wonder ‘whore’ gets, is it 2 million?, or 3 million hits a month? Razor wit and all…eh?
You should go back and read some of your comments, on this site, from a few years ago Phule. You appear to have stopped evolving.
February 28th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
GerryandthePM
A little too pessimistic –
Labour should be back in 2014 (while 2011 may be close, provided National manage MMP they should get back in).
The economy is not going to tank it, but it will be difficult in government because of rising food, fuel, power and rents. National will hand out the surplus by removing the top tax rate and handing out tax cuts to the middle class – leaving nothing to compensate lower wage workers. Labour will rebuild around them under Little outside of parliament. Business will claim the 4% into Kiwi Saver means there should be no increase in minimum wage. But workers on the minimum – cannot afford Kiwi Saver and they and other workers on lower incomes who cannot afford Kiwi Saver, will want higher wages because of rising costs.
February 29th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Nah – you said that he should talk about how environmentalists are going to start blowing up the country soon because they’re all crazy.
Oh dear – I’d forgotten about the PM style of debate: convert one set of words into something that is then so self-evidently extreme that no actual argument or thinking is required to respond. Key words and phrases for you to re-read:
- violence
- threat of violence
- past
- and
- likelihood
- future
- at what stage….?
- rationale
as opposed to:
- blowing up
- soon
- are going to
- all
- crazy
Problem was Trotter had already voiced that paranoid and unsupported opinion.
I introduce you to the following:
- PETA
- Pentti Linkola
- http://www.seashepherd.org/editorials/editorial_070504_1.html
- Wild Greens
So you were wrong in assuming that he hadn’t expressed crazed fantasies similar to your own.
Once again there is a danger in pejorative assertions bouncing back at you – I’d read that Sea Shepard article before throwing around the phrase “crazed fantasies”.
I note that Trotter is capable of putting forward an argument that pulls together actual historic events and movements such as New Jerusalem, The Weathermen, and Baader-Meinhof, with current Aotearoa Indymedia commentary and the self-evident “millenarian (and even apocalyptic) thinking” in both the Green and Maori movements, to demonstrate that people in those movements might reach the point where they think that armed struggle is necessary. He also notes that the presence in the Greens of ‘former’ Maoist and Trotskyist people mean the likelihood of a fair amount of sympathy for young guns like yourself.
By contrast you are only able to produce a thin gruel of pejorative assertions – “paranoid”, “crazed” – that imply that no such thing is possible from the far-left groups that you run with. We should trust your assertion when it does not even amount to a denial, let alone a reasoned opinion that refutes the points cited by Trotter?
No wonder his piece is centered around “exploring the case for armed struggle” while you simply indulge in a patella reflex of “crazed fantasies”.
Apart from this the more important point I was making with the reference to the ‘dynamite’ article (and the same deficiency applies to his “armed struggle” article) – is that Trotter never actually bothers to delve into the question of whether such violence is a natural outgrowth of far-left movements.
That is a question that apparently cannot arise. Evidently the causes they choose to fight for are just, the righteousness is just, the virtue is pure, the stakes are always the highest, and hence the only arguments remaining are around the actions needed to support the cause, with the final implication that violence will only be a regrettable last resort, and even then most likely still only a response to external factors such as state violence or an almost organic isolation of the just by the rest of society.
By contrast in this article the assumption applied to the right-wing by Trotter is that violence is quite natural and to be expected. Of course this is not delved into either.
It’s all very Manichaean and in that respect there is no daylight between you and Trotter at all. However, he at least has started thinking about where all this might be going. You are still denying, though whether that is the naivete of one who thinks he is among the virtuous, or the low cunning of a deceiver will only be known with time.
Great minds think i suppose
If you’re looking in the mirror you suppose too much.
March 1st, 2008 at 10:50 am
Tom Hunter –
To my knowledge Trotter has never been part of an environmentalist group, and is certainly not closely associated any on the present crop of “young guns” (as you put it) within NZ environmentalist movements. He just has no clue of what he is talking about, and I suspect you are in the same camp. Further to this, neither of you can produce one instance of an environmentalist committing a political murder in NZ. As such your musings about these social movements that you know next to nothing about, committing acts of guerrilla warfare are just morbid dreams, and wishful thinking (no doubt you would love to have a “terrorist” act committed by a left-leaning New Zealander so you could use it to smear the rest of the NZ left).