The anti-Glenn line
August 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pm by David FarrarMy God. The line being pushed around to smear Glenn is so awful it is embarrassing.
They are saying his meeting at Karaka was well after midnight, that Glenn was pissed, and he was in fact talking to Howard Morrison, whom he confused for Winston Peters, because he can’t tell those Maori boys apart!
Related posts:
- Labour consulted Owen Glenn on GG
- Glenn also offered Sir Howard money to stand
- Glenn donated $100,000 for Peter’s legal expenses
- Why Winston is very lucky Owen Glenn blabbed
August 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I fully encourage them to crap on their largest donor.
They’re all class.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Jeez these bozos just dont know when to stop digging the hole. If Helen calls the election date and that shuts down the PC then I reckon Glen will go to the MSM and tell them all.
And that I reckon will see others being investigated by the SFO and right to the very top.
Methinks Helens finger prints are all over the dirt deeds and that this time rather than having a clean break between her she actually got her hands dirty and dealt directly with Glen The revelations by her rather suggest this.
So has Glen got the evidence to put her away and will he use it Damn right he will
There is nothing so venomous as a jilted New Zealand Consulate for Monaco
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I thought Peters wasn’t even AT Karaka.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Holy Moly Batman, so he gave $100K to Howard Morrison as well ! Perhaps to get him to stop singing ?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
WOW.
Interesting tact from labour, I assume they have their facts straight.
If it came down to defamation – I know whose cheque book I’d rather have.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Being the great Labour supporter that he is, no doubt Sir Howard will back this story……………
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Tuku Morgan, John Tamahere, Dover Samuels, Winston Peters – you know sometimes I have difficulty with that as well!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I’m not sure Sir Howard is stupid Ramsay and labour would need to be pretty slow on the uptake to buy a slice of this sandwich of shame.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Folks, we’re wallowing in trivia here. Over at The Strangled they are reporting on this week’s really big news…
Steve Pierson: It’s all been on this week. Maurice Williamson promising $50 tolls …
Eddie: Hundreds of Australian journalists walked off the job yesterday…
all_your_base: Here’s National’s Wellington Central candidate Stephen Franks giving his view on Civil Unions…
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Sounds like when a Labour MP (Mallard?) couldn’t keep all those blonde National females straight…
when he couldn’t tell which one is which, I mean.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
So Sir Howard Morrison thanked OG for a $100,000 donation? Whatever was it for???
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
If I’m allowed a moment’s scepticism, could I ask where this line is being pushed? And by whom?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
To piss of a billionaire once is folly.
Twice is just unfuckingbelievably stupid!
Turkeys voting for christmas, how strange.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Oh course they will trot out the line about how OG likes young blondes and more than one at a time So lets get this all out just like H did yesterday. Blah Blah Blah
Trouble is when OG fronts up it will be to expose the PRIME MINISTER as a LIAR CORRUPT and who PIMPS FOR HER POODLE
Just cant wait to see it all come out
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Peters saying Karaka was in 2007 not 2006 is irrelevant. Whether it was January 2006 or January 2007, Peters was and is deeply disingenuous when he says he couldn’t disclose donations he didn’t know about and held up a No sign.
The Howard Morrison thing is just ridiculous – isn’t Peters on record as saying that he did in fact have a conversation with Glenn?
And how incredibly shortsighted of Labour. They will have real trouble raising money in future if they turn on their donors like this.
This is what happens when you believe ends justify the means. Nothing is off the table, including smearing your most generous benefactor.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Owen Glenn is a proven liar. He’s contradicted Winston’s changing story too many times to be taken seriously.
Anyway, aren’t we all supposed to be talking about how Labour saved us from the menace of the Exclusive Brethren and managed to hold the Hollow Men out of power for 3 more years?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“Sir” Howard Morrison is a uniquely vain and arrogant individual with a born-to-rule air about him and his own car park at the Springfield Golf Club.
Can’t for the life of me think how you’d confuse him with our Winnie!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Yep, looks like a wheel has come off Labour’s turnip cart.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
What the media should be doing is reporting not the allegations about Karaka, but who is making them and why.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I suppose that the next line they peddle will be that Owen Glenn is secretly the Elect Vessel (or Man of God) in the Exclusive Brethren!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
It is vile but someone has to ask the dusky old crooner if he was at Karaka checking out the ponies….
all speculation must be eliminated.
Roarprawn.blogspot.com
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Did you just crack a joke RRM?*
* ( sorry to ask that question but after the surreal week in politics we’ve just experienced the world has taken on a Dali-ish slant and I believe its prudent to be assume nothing )
If so -
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
oh and i was meaning howy not winnie
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
OFF topic but you Mr Farrar has never bought it up HOW MUCH LAND AND MONEY has cullen given to the first nation the maori in the last 2 monthes billions of dollars and land FREEHOLD any thing for votes ,as a non interlectual i think red face cullen is given New Zealand away, , opps i still own my land BUT FOR HOW LONG ,, never a subject on the sesiure and giving back of our land to the maori.money for NOTHING,airports schools land ,anything, VOTES VOTES , its your future TOUGH, its going back to gorse
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Hmm. A sort of clever stitch up.
Back in Feb 2007 Howie stood up for Glenn when he (Glenn) said Clark had offered Minister of Transport. Howie reckoned Glenn might have had a glass or two of plonk when he said it.. that’s the pisshead bit. And back in 2005 Glenn donated $100,000 to one of Howies (Maori) education charities.. thats a nice tie up with Winnie’s $100,000.
However, the dangerous bit is to gloss over the fact that Howie and Glenn have been friends since 2003, stayed in contact, Glenn donated to the charity in 2005, was present at Howie’s mother’s 90th birthday celebration, offered Howie a million to go into politics and so on. I hardly think Glenn would make a mistake between Morrison and Winston, even when pissed. Glenn has a demonstrated affinity to Maori, well known friendship with Howie and his foundation has also donated to Indian charities in India, so the racist bit won’t fly either. Howie also says he nominated Glenn for an honour three times..
JC
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Another question to put on the shelf for later:
What has Labour been planning that requires first the EFA and then the elimination of their own sympathetic donors?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
# Chicken Little (338) Add karma Subtract karma +1 Says:
August 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
“Did you just crack a joke RRM?*
* ( sorry to ask that question but after the surreal week in politics we’ve just experienced the world has taken on a Dali-ish slant and I believe its prudent to be assume nothing )
If so -
Hahahahahahahahahaha”
Yes, RRM has surprised us a couple of times with some quite witty and astute comments, I sometimes wonder if someone else has cracked his password, I didn’t think a lefty was capable of a comment as good as that!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Winston’s just offered to stand aside as a minister due to SFO investigation
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
He has gone – stood done – more like sacked – because the gun was to his head – shame she did not pull the trigger – she must have been tempted
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Nooooo! Damn! I hoped that he’d last another three negative poll points!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
yay!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Clark will be Minister of FA and Racing….wonder if that includes taking on WP’s credit lines wiht the industry
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Blogging on it as it happens!
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/08/peters-steps-down.html
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
What about the concrete evidence?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
But Peters has REQUESTED that Clark take over his portfolios – even in disgrace, he’s calling the freaking shots!! What does he have on her?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
“What does he have on her?”
Evidence that Clark and Williams referred Peters to Glenn, with authority to grant a gong and a consulship
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Peters stands down. Damn. Best of a bad deal for the govt. Focus in the House on Tuesday has to be on how Clark spent six months saying “I have to accept his word unless I have evidence to the contrary” when she did have evidence to the contrary.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Mr Snack (4:07pm) – a karma point is not enough…v good!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Now, lets apply the blow torch to HC, as to why she kept knowledge of Glenn’s donation secret?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
So Winnie has gone from Minister Of Foreign Affairs to Minister of FA.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
So, is this on full pay? Keeping the baubles?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Clark: “I’ve never known Mr Peters to lie… to me.” With strong emphasis on ‘to me’, after a pause. Awesome.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Key is right . This makes Clark look weak. Tamihere was right. She can’t deal with stress
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
What is the difference between being stood down and being sacked. Does stood down mean you keep the ministerial flat, travel perks, expenses, and limo and ministerial pay, whereas you lose the lot if you are sacked.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
one maori mongrel mob member looks like another maori mob member ????
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Just look at the body language; the words she spoke and how she spoke. You don’t even have to be a student of psychology to see that Clark has plenty to hide. Its clear that she realises she’s in deep doo-doo’s.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
You’re right there Paul, even her face looks like she is the recipient of a bad smell, or is that her natural expression?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Chicken Little and Phil;
We lefties are people too, and less vile than you might imagine…
The sooner your lot also learn to see your own side as occasionally a laughing matter, the happier the battle-lines here will be for everyone
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
That’s the last shred of principle leaving her body… it’s a natural reaction.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Jeez, how many different ‘lawyers’ does it take to defend Peter’s?? Why has Peter’s Williams just been brought into the loop? Is it because he dosen’t know too much?? Why isn’t his ‘blood brother’ representing him?? Oh thats right..I forgot already. Interesting that Peter’s knew nothing of the Spencer Trust a few weeks back, now he’s gonna show all the paper work is hunky-dory. Good boy Winston, you’re the man, alright. Maybe Peter’s has spun so much bullshit, everyone is having trouble keeping up. Except us lot here, perhaps??
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Just had a squizz at Clarks transcript… Gawd, is she ever SUCKING Peter’s dick. When he says’s faster, she quickly replys..YES Master. And shall I suck harder too?? Sickening.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Ah Paul, I believe Mr Henry is quite busy at present with the SFO, IRD, Law Society, managing Tommy Gear and Brian Deadman into the boot of his car, not to mention the three large swarthy chaps wearing sunglasses who just arrived on the last plane from Monaco…
Here’s hoping hell hath no fury like a billionaire scorned
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Buggerlugs, so much I guess then for the bro’s-in-arm’s mantra….’United we stand, together we fall’, huh??
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
JC suggests:
And besides all the differences you’ve cited, JC, there’s the obvious one.
When you see Howard Morrison, he’s the one doing the singing. When you see Winston, it’s the people he’s surrounded himself with who are singing – like canaries.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I also had a wry smile on my face, when I heard Peter’s kept Clark waiting for around half an hour, for their meeting. Now, I’ll wager you my grandmother (and two pet goldfish), that was deliberately orchestrated by Peter’s.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Anyone talked to roger mcclay lately?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
why would anyone want to? he’s a coiffed *&^%.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Man, this is a cool thread, Insider was speechless and still got negative karma.
I, in fact, empathise with Insider. Has Winston actually been caught with the doo doo’s in his own bed?
well, this is what I wrote in ma blog 24 hrs ago
http://wikiriwhi.wordpress.com/
I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on this situation. I voted for New Zealand First twice. Firstly as a huge alternative to the socialists -which has not panned out- and secondly because I cannot bring myself to vote National. At election time my pen hovers over the National candidate, then veers sharply to another alternative. Now my problems are solved. I am in the correct seat to vote for the Libertarianz. I have met with the local candidate, Tim Wikiriwhi, and conversed with him on several occasions.
But back to Winston. He is now being investigated by the very body the Labour government has been considering closing down, (so they won’t be investigated over donations because of their Electoral Finance Bill) the Serious Fraud Office. Winston has denied receiving large donations from multi millionaire Owen Glen. This same individual has gone public saying he made the donation, which Winston has denied thanking him for. He even denied being at the place where the gratitude was expressed.
Hullo! 21st century! Digicams!
That’s right. He was photographed being where he said he wasn’t. And vague memories are not going to help, too much money at stake. You don’t forget where you were when you thanked some one for thousands of dollars. But remember, this is the man , who as racing minister, has only vaguely heard of one of this countries wealthiest racing families. The patriarch of whom has also donated to the Winston cause.
I guess we could be reminded of the last America’s cup Dennis Connors was involved in against NZ. He was 5-0 behind and there were still commentators who believed he had tricks up his sleeve. He didn’t. I’m willing to bet neither does Winston.
The PM has finally come out and spoken publicly on the matter. The SFO is involved, she had to. Winston is now her main ally in an election race she is lagging behind in heavily. There are those predicting a snap election. We are so close to November, it shouldn’t happen. An SFO investigation has to carry through past November. Winston may win back his seat only to be cast from the chamber.
The only aspect I can see in his defence is that the allegations are from before the Electoral Finance Bill concerning party donations came into effect. Yet Winston is still in denial.
But the strongest signs are already manifesting. His allies are distancing themselves. No man is an island.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
I can see Clark and Pooh are lining up the NZ public on this SFO thing. If the enquiry remains narrowly focused on Vela and Jones donations finding their way from then Spencer Trust back to NZ First, and this is shown to be true, then the Politburo will launch a noisy and vicious counter-attack designed to down out the evidence of Pooh’s lying, mis-leading parliament, failure to declare donations and accusations of untruthfulness against the media etc etc.
Key did a good job of reminding NZ that there is more to this business than simply a SFO enquiry into the alleged mis-use of donated funds. He needs to keep the broader issue of Pooh’s systematic dishonesty squarely in front on the public, despite the MSM’s inevitable flip-flop back to supporting Clark so as to keep topic newsworthy and saleable.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
The PM said in her press conference that she has to deal with these issues and that she does not ask for them. It could be argued that by sitting on the information that she got from Owen Glenn in February, she was asking for this to blow uo in her face.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
We lefties are people too, and less vile than you might imagine…
The sooner your lot also learn to see your own side as occasionally a laughing matter, the happier the battle-lines here will be for everyone
RRM – I have no problem laughing at myself, or any other idiots around me, whatever their political persuasion.
I know Lefties are people too, I sleep with one every night. My wife is a mid left Leftie, we have learned over the years to keep politics out of our relationship.
Last night, when the TV news was playing Helens confession I was watching my wifes face. It was not a good look. After the item was over she turned to me and said ‘She’s a liar’.
That was it. That’s all she said.
Another vote lost to Labour.
I imagine that same scene or one similar was played out in a lot of Kiwi homes last night and today.
The thing I find most sad about it is that HC and WP appear to be playing games with the integrity of our country.
That’s not good for anyone, left or right.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Even if Winston can show that all the money given to the Spencer Trust went to NZ First, that still leaves the rather awkward question as to why it was never declared in an election return. Check mate Winnie.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
DPF – has Peter Dunne paid back his money to Parliamentary Services from the last election?
Also, isn’t it time also to revisit whether Winston did in fact donate any of the $158,000 to a charity? Everything he has been saying over the last six months turns out to be a lie, so why wouldn’t the charity payments also be a lie? Can the Speaker be required to divulge who the money was purportedly donated to?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Peter Williams is familiar with getting donations for his efforts even though this is far less oriental – more like just “Mr Tauranga”
(I wonder if he’s cheeky enough though to try sending Winnies final costs to owen.glenn@otslogisticsgroup.com)
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
freedom101 – No he hasn’t. I’d love the SFO to widen their enquiry to include other challengeable points of honesty/dishonesty.. like the charity thing. Get the Speaker to hand over ‘the list’ and then audit payment transactions……AND he still needs to pay the $158k back to parliamentary service.
Pooh is a pathological liar… so we can be sure that there is an aircraft hanger filled with skeletons waiting to be shown the light of day. The SFO needs to swing the doors back and let the sunlight in!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Paul Marsden – Re your 7:35pm: Thanks a lot, I feel …unclean, now!
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
So Labour are saying that they were supportered by a racist redneck, that’s discracful
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Wonder whether that 100k Interest Free loan is still outstanding to Labour? OG might just need it for a solid legal rumpus?
Good Jollies. Turning your biggest benefactor over is a real warning to anybody else tempted to help.
The ETS will provide loads of spare cash anyhow. Plus Speeding fines could be doubled to cover any shortfall.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Does the SFO have the power to investigate and reveal details of Peter’s psychiatric history? I saw his ” train crash” coming years ago and said so, for what it was worth. What I didn’t foresee was the huge colateral damage to occur when it happened.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
I guess with Peter Williams being an advocate for prisoner’s rights, he’s just getting in some early practice with Winston.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
And BTW…if Williams et al, thinks for one moment, this is all going to be resolved tomorrow, then he’s a bigger dick than I already give him credit for.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Winston Peter’s Peter Williams …
not so much Blood Brothers as Possible Palindromes
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Could be he’s going to stick poor old WNS (Viagra) Winston in the Howard league for penis reform
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Maybe OG will ask for his 500k back from Labour? and the 100K from Winnie?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Waterboard. Winstone. Now.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
I can actually see a vivid picture of Doug Woolerton shaking his head and shedding no tears.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Will Winstons story be available for $20k?
http://www.nznews.net.nz/hardnews/1997/19970606.html
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
The Simpson’s is no fun anymore, NZ politics has upstaged it to well.
Vote:I err, did not errr, take that money.
August 29th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
“The Simpson’s is no fun anymore, NZ politics has upstaged it to well.”
From my blog on Aus/NZ gaining US journalists
http://wikiriwhi.wordpress.com/
I find this particularly peculiar in the US where journalists are slowly becoming a rare breed as major print organisations are down sizing staff and we may see a flood of them on this side of the Pacific. I suspect Australia will feel the first affects.
Vote:The question is, how will American journalists adapt to lower hemisphere politics. Can they understand the Westminster system and even then, which politics would they prefer, Australian or New Zealand?
if we are talking financial reasons, let’s just cross the Tasman. If we want to talk personalities, New Zealand has them in bulk. From tennis balls stuffed into childrens mouths to court appearances for a leading politico nick named ‘the duck’, Kiwi politics just can’t be beaten for flavour.
Kiwi Blog has picked up on this personality factor spectacularly and there are many high calibre bloggers who would be delighted in being recognised financially for their lay insights and political speak easy.
The Americans may be very insightful and enlightened analysts, but add the humour factor very intelligently inserted into political articles and we understand why the Labour government is proposing a ban to poltical speech on the internet.
Religion maybe the opiate of the masses, but humourous, cutting, incisive vernacular awakens the masses back to attention.
August 29th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
John Key has unfortunately showed his political inexperience by ruling out W P. If the serious fraud office find no problems which I suspect will be the case. Then Winston will play the “they are all out to get me card” and probably sneak above 5%
Vote:(Yes I know there are idiots about) and then National would have ruled out a coalition partner.
We need to make sure that we have every option available to us in post election negotiations.
The gap WILL narrow, a small but significant group people are suspicious of National and the result is going to be close
We must not underestimate Clarke
John Key has made a dangerous and possibly costly decision I think that we may have cause to regret.
August 29th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
There is a really important point that everyone seems to be overlooking slightly. The email that was leaked between Glenn and his PR firm seems to indicate that there was a conspiracy to defraud the public.
(Sorry, i’m not sure how to do all the hyperlink postings and pretty quotes, but here goes)
“Steve Fisher: Our plan worked well. There is nothing new about you in here Owen. Note that Winston says you have never made a donation to NZ First, so at all costs you must stick to that line. It was definitely the right thing to do to deny the Maori party offer as well.”
- The bit that should be emphasised is: “Note that Winston says you never made a donation to NZ First” – so even at that point (by which time we now know that Helen Clark also knew), the PR flack knew that there was a conflict in the stories and told OG to “stick to that line”.
Why would he say that? It appears to me that the intention by all concerned (how many others were in on it) was to sit tight, say nothing and hope that it all died out, never to see the light of day. Surely the SFO or privileges committee now need to investigate if there is any connection between Steve Fisher and Helen Clark, or Winston Peters. And why is it that Steve Fisher was aware of the conflicting stories yet Helen Clark was unable to act on them until AFTER John Key declared that he couldn’t work in coalition with Winston Peters?
AND, it also shows that Owen Glenn thought he’d given to NZ First. Surely if he’d given the money to Peters’ election petition it would have been clearly spelt out to him at the time – obviously Steve Fisher had been in contact with Peters to have known what Peters was saying.
The email also further appears to imply that Glenn’s version of events was the true one, but not the right one (for public consumption). Given that there was a six month hiatus in this coming out, one can only presume that Owen Glenn got a bit miffed at what was going on, has plenty of other details that he’s keeping for a privileges committee hearing sometime soon.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Am I the only one wondering what happened to Farrar? Biggest political news in years and he is offline. Did he choke on champagne?
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 8:23 am
“John Key has made a dangerous and possibly costly decision I think that we may have cause to regret.”
Disagree. Winston turns any coalition he joins into a stinking pile of manure. Key made the sensible choice – a calculated risk assessment. If there is a next time for Winston, Key knows he can’t control Winston’s tendencies and they only get worse. To bastardise what I recall is a Lyndon B, Johnson quote: Any party would be wise to have him pissing his pants outside the tent, rather than inside the tent pissing everywhere. In the unlikely event that a Labour coalition wins this election, and as long as Labour do not abolish free voting, the next one will return National Party for a very long time. Better to have Winston die with his corrupt friends than be a one term government brought down by Winston once again.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Like many NZ’rs, I really think Peter’s has ‘lost-the-plot’. His bizarre utterances (especially of more recent times), are more attuned to that of a raving lunatic. The guy is a ‘nutter’ and he has no place in NZ politics.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Standard Socialist Policy innit? If you can’t attack the message, attack the messenger!!
I am in Tauranga at the moment, and from a few conversations I have had with some of the people here, and they are in the ‘grey hair’ department, there is actually quite a lot of support for Winston, and a perception that there is a media beat up along the lines of what happened to Tony Veitch.
Accordingly, I beleive there is something in the water in this city, and have resolved to drink nothing but beer until I leave!
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 8:53 am
OK, here’s a thought I’ve been having since seeing the “we will produce the statement showing where it all went” performance by Peter Williams. What if they do? What if they planned to all along? What if the refusal to produce any evidence so far has been carefully orchestrated to extract maximum media exposure? So that when they produce the statement that gets the SFO off their back, they can turn around on the biggest political story of the year and say “See, they *are* all out to get us, and if you’re not careful, they’ll be out to get you, too”. (Which was pretty much what Winnie said to Grey Power yesterday.)
Crossing the 5% threshhold, anyone?
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Two points
John Key made a judgement call on Winston Peters which he acknowledges could cost him and National. It was a principled decision based on his assessment that Peters can’t be trusted. Clark doesn’t have the same standards so she is welcome to him. So from hereon in a vote for NZF is a vote for Labour … end of story.
Peter Williams has made a career and I dare say a lot of money in defending criminals. Good choice Winston (but I don’t think you can rely on OG coming to the rescue with the dosh this time)
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:01 am
It is not possible to clear this matter up, in a few minutes, ‘or, a couple of hours. The ‘statement ‘ of affairs from Peters’ bro means absolutely ‘zilch’. Peter Williams is acting like a complete prat in this matter also and he should know better. Does anyone here have a grasp of the time taken to thoroughly reconcile payments coming and going from various bank accounts? They’re all trying to take us for a ride.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Penelope, given a choice between conspiracy, and a cock up.
I choose cock-up.
Sure they will try and re-write history, or send a Terminator back in time to erase a certain Mr Hide.
They are bunnies in the headlight. Klark has pulled so hard in one direction with her tag/tug team of fellow Comfy Shoe wearers. That
according to the laws of Physics it always had to swing the other way at speed!
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Penelope … even if the Jones and Vella monies made it to NZF via the Spenser Trust (and I don’t accept that is a given either) then Peters is still in the deep do do for his failure to declare that in the NZF election return.
Point is Peters has double standards. One for him and the other for the rest of us.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:11 am
It’s a series of cynical moves, by Helen and Winston indeed. The question is, will the people swallow it?
I wonder how Winston feels now that Helen has him by the baubles? Or is it the other way round?
It may depend on how much Helen and Mike Williams knew about the Owen Glenn/Winston issue before the actual payment of the money, to Winston mightn’t it?
It has already taken since February for Helen to fess up about the Owen Glenn donation ‘Because nobody asked me’.
Would it be worth asking her in the House if she, Williams and Simpson knew that Owen Glenn was going to back Winston BEFORE February, because they were complicit in the coalition arrangement, and the ‘carrot’ of a consulship for Glenn?
Does she reall imagine Owen Glenn is finished on this matter? Or is the only course left now to smear Glenn and attempt to completely discredit him?
I await with interest.
lee.monkeywithtypewriter.clark@gmail.com
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:12 am
I wanted to add a lot more, but didn’t ‘have permission to edit comments”. Anyone else having same prob?
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Fascinating, I propose what could be an interesting alternative scenario, not in any way indicating I want this to happen, and end up with negative karma for it!
Paul, no, I know it’s not possible to clear things up in a few minutes or a couple of hours. But here’s the thing (and I’m not saying my scenario will play out, just that it’s a possibility – and would be a very interesting one). Many people have been saying “If he has evidence to clear himself, why doesn’t he produce it?” The answer from everyone here has been “Because he doesn’t have the evidence”. But what, just what, if that isn’t the answer? What other credible answers could there be?
And although there are several issues lining up against Winnie at the moment, it’s not sophisticated, politcally savvy voters he has to win over. He doesn’t care if, say, the SFO and PC eventually exonerate him on technicalities that will leave the politically savvy saying “But that still doesn’t explan X, Y and Z”.
All he’d care about would be having official bodies saying he wasn’t guilty so he could play on his image as a maverick and a martyr and win enough support back from the politically unsophsticated to cross that threshhold.
I seem to remember that everyone was writing Winnie off last election as well, and he made an impressive sprint for the finish. Personally, I hope he’s a gone-burger this time. But I would not be remotely surprised if his management of this issue was not the incompetent bumbling of a has-been, but rather carefully orchestrated for maximum media exposure.
Those are the only two scenarios that make sense, and I’m not ruling either of them out right now.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am
“Does anyone here have a grasp of the time taken to thoroughly reconcile payments coming and going from various bank accounts? They’re all trying to take us for a ride.”
Even Peters knows it will take more than ten minutes. So does Peter Williams, it’s just media game they’re playing. Peters said Helen had looked at the Spencer Trust “evidence” briefly, but for longer than ten minutes, but had not “analysed it as an accountant would”, and found Winston to be innocent. So who on the SFO investigation would take ten minutes over it?
They’re not called SFO for nothing. Serious and complex fraud is what they unravel. In which case, a document suggesting everything is peachy is not accepted at face value. In this case it is just a media word game from a lawyer protecting his client. I’m certain NZ First voters are polarising themselves over such statements though.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Penelope. You omitted a third scenerio. His rantings and ravings of late, are those of a lunatic. He’s lost the plot.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:31 am
GM, I agree – usually the explanation for such things is cock-up rather than conspiracy. But sometimes it’s not. And there’s a little voice in my head that’s been saying over the past 18 or so hours “what if it’s not this time”. I don’t know. But I’m intrigued.
And yes, Paul, that is a third scenario, which is really “incompetent bumbling of a has-been” on steroids.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:33 am
NeillR
Here’s a quick HTML markup guide. Replace the ['s with less-than characters and ]‘s with greater-than characters and you’ll be away.
This is a link This is the [a href="http://www.blah.com/story"]Blah Story[/a]
[b]BOLD TEXT[/b]
[i] italics text[/i]
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Here you go folks Audrey Young is touching on this at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10529703&pnum=0
“Timing of the conclusion of the inquiries will be critical. If the SFO finds evidence of fraud, the inquiry could take a long time, probably beyond the election, and suspicion could hang Peters. But if there is a clear paper trail on the Jones and Vela donations to secret trusts and they were merely legally “laundered” in amounts to avoid statutory disclosure thresholds, Peters could be cleared quickly.
“That would help him to rebuild the conspiracy brand that he has already been polishing up on the hustings – that the SFO was politically motivated against him because of his attacks on it over its failures in the Winebox.”
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Penelope, think most of us are still confused as to how WRP can be credible about all the stuff he has railed against, when ‘all’ he did was ‘Launder’ his donations to avoid declaration.
Isn’t this called Avoidance?
Frankly I find the whole situation distateful. Karma will apply. Unless the NZ public have been VERY naughty!
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am
GM, here’s the thing: Peters hasn’t been credible for years. He doesn’t have to be. He just has to convince 5% of people he is. And every normal curve has 5% of people who will believe the ridiculous!
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Helen Clark is really desperate to ensure that Goff doesn’t have two dollars to rub together to get Labour elected to government in 2011.
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 10:32 am
My pick is that Helen asked Glen to stump up the 100K to avoid Bob the Build bankrupting Luigi over the unpaid Court costs Remember Bob threatened to do so and the money was paid over less than a week before Bobs deadline.
Helen promised Glen the Gong for the donations to the Socialists and to Luigi. But she never promised him the Consulate.
I suspect Glen asked Luigi for that when they spoke about the donation and Luigi said yes expecting that Helen would agree.
When Helen said NO Luigi was left wityh egg on his face and very unhappy Glen as this was the big prize for him.
The PR flack was musculed to tell Glen to stick with the line. By who? My pick is H2 after consultation with Helen.
As others have said they all hoped it would go away over time but it hasnt
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Actually gd, Bob Clarkson has had many accusations thrown his way by the erstwhile Luigi, and without exception has managed to refute them. He will be feeling most vindicated today I am sure!
Vote:August 30th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
“He will be feeling most vindicated today I am sure!”
On ya Bob, you retire with dignity intact. and with the knowledge winston will certainly lose Tauranga.
To National! that’s gotta hurt.
Vote: