National on the Maori seats
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 am by David FarrarBen Thomas at NBR quotes Pita Sharples:
Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples says his party receives signals “privately” that the National Party is not too committed on its position of abolishing the Maori electorate seats.
Host Martyn Bradbury put to Dr Sharples right wing commentator Matthew Hooton’s view that “the desire to dump the Maori seats was simply window dressing for the more meat-eating National fringe than genuine policy,” and asked whether the announced policy suggested National were more serious about abolishing the seats.
Mr Sharples replied: “No, I think Mr Hooton is pretty close. That’s the same message we’ve been getting privately, that in fact it’s well off.”
I’m not surprised by the story. But one has to be careful about what it means.
I have no doubt the vast majority of National MPs think that the Maori Seats should be abolished. As do I for that matter.
However they are also aware that abolishing them would be difficult, to put it mildly.
And it is not a burning issue for most National MPs. There are many things they would like to do, and some are more important than others. Abolishing the Maori seats probably ranks a long way below higher economic growth, better standards in education, welfare reform and a better performing health system.
So if the price of a deal with the Maori Party is to agree not to abolish the Maori seats (amongst other things), then that is not going be much of a dead rat to chew on. It would be what is called an easy concession.
Related posts:
- Maori Seats policy not a bottom line for National
- Thanks to Helen, the way to entrench the Maori seats is to have Maori Party go with National
- Sharples wants special seats for Maori in Auckland
- The Maori Seats
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 am
The meat eating fringe of National supporters? Gee, what next. The “shoe wearing” fringe of National supporters? The horror!
National will get rid of the race based seats just as easily as Labour gets rid of things that stand in it’s way.
Vote:Sharples has to realise that in order to reduce instituionalised racism in this country to neglible amounts, (among other legislative changes) his party has to go to. Maybe he should join National if he feels he could work with them via coalition. Why muck around?
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:39 am
Not everyone on the right opposes the Maori seats -some see me as part of the VRWC. I support the Maori seats. They are democratic, they are the only means of guaranteed political representation for Maori. Guaranteed parliamentary representation is a fundamental right of New Zealand citizens. This includes the right of indigenous Maori to be “fairly and effectively represented in Parliament by members of the Maori community ( RCES).
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
“So if the price of a deal with the Maori Party is to agree not to abolish the Maori seats (amongst other things), then that is not going be much of a dead rat to chew on. It would be what is called an easy concession.”
No, if a party makes high-profile promises to the electorate that it has no intention of carrying out, it’s called lying to the voters.
[DPF: How is it high profile? Are there billboards pledging it? Prominent place in brochures? ]
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 10:09 am
BUt National is not doing that with the Maori seats, so you point is …..
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
You obviously need to clean your ears out, Dave.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 am
National will get rid of the race based seats just as easily as Labour gets rid of things that stand in it’s way.
I certainly hope not! I should think all New Zealanders would hope for more principled, more ethical and more democratic behaviour from National than we have seen from Labour!
To simply pass Act of Parliament abolishing them (against the will of a large minority in Parliament – Labour, the Greens and the Maori Party will never go for it) would be an appalling abuse of power, even if their existence is not covered by the entrenched provisions. It would be far worse than the Electoral Finance Act and would do huge damage to New Zealand’s international reputation.
The alternative would be to hold a referendum. But a referendum of mostly pakeha voters on whether to abolish Maori seats would stink pretty badly – especially as the Maori minority would vote overwhelmingly against. It would be seen around the world (rightly or wrongly) as appallingly racist.
I agree that there is a reasonable case for abolition, even if I think the balance of arguments goes against it. However, the only respectable way to abolish those seats is if Maori themselves agree.
Given all the above, I suggest a compromise:
Co-opt the existing enrolment process to be a five-yearly referendum on the Maori seats. If at any time less than 50% of those who identify themselves as of Maori descent chose to go on the Maori rolls, the seats get abolished.
I don’t see that happening any time soon. But it could happen in time.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Peter, it is very easy to promise now to do something in 2014 – after three elections. So how do you know National has no intention of carrying it out? You don’t. No voters are lied to in 2008, or 2011 because the Maori seats wont be abolished before then and that’s National’s policy. So agreeing not to abolish the seats and get a deal with Maoiri Party in 2008 is still in line with the Nats policy – so how is that a lie to the voters?
Its not “High profile”, either
Ears cleaned out. Always were. Perhaps you could see whats blocking your ears sometime? This is not the 2014 election, it is the 2008 election we have this year.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Agree with DPF there are far more imporant matters Maori than getting rid of the Maori seats
First up is to get the heads out of sand of those who havent figured out that Maori and PIs feature at the wrong end of the wrong stats.
IMHO the Maori Party the Nats and ACT are the best combo to get to grips and fix this problem.
Its the old top 2 inches The Maori party can go to its people and say things that whitey cant.They can ask and demand changes in attitudes that whitey cant do.
The Maoris have gotta take ownership of the problem and stop blaming my great grand father for all the current woes.
just chucking money at a proble aint the total solution as the pollie sand the civil servants think it is.
Its what you do with the money thats more imporatnt than the size of the settlement cheque
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm
It’s high profile in the sense that National knows the abolition of Maori seats and retention of Foreshore & Seabed Act are just the sort of red meat their punters want to hear from them — and there’s little enough red meat anywhere else for them to chew on, isn’t there.
Just the sort of red meat that, as Hooton essentially points out, is just there as cynical window dressing.
But you know that, don’t you — your objections are just for the sake of form.
Or do you think this is the sort of mendacity that’s ‘okay by you’?
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Your comments are racist, but you obviously adhere to the “only whites can be racist” type mentality that precludes seeing your comments clearly.
Maori are humans are they not? They live and work in NZ? In a (mainly, roughly, close enough to… ) capitalist society? They contribute as anyone else to society? Then in the new world of no racial boundaries, they are equals with all men, as far as real equality can go in our nation.
Initially the whole point behind “equality” was that men were men regardless or the colour of their skin. Now it seems moari and others aren’t humans, they’re a different species, but they award themselves that title – not as a slur by some good ol’ boys from the South. Nowadays the “equality” movement actively pursues “more equality” for those it supports. So now instead of having to sit at the back of the bus, or walk in the gutter, or not be served, or lynched even, or shot on sight with legal immunity, indigenous people want an extra handout or hand up regardless of merit and to tilt the playing field in their favour. No one else gets such favouritism. All else is either 1) privately funded or 2) based on merit. So what’s behind their reasoning The colour of their skin or family tree mainly, then past grievences, then because of their own badly made choices. This is not equality and it works against any community that embraces it – turning out people who cannot stand without a crutch.
All through history tribes and peoples have been wiped out from wars, disease, wrong decisions. It’s only recently that people started to usurp the position of nature and say, “no, we shall preserve these people as pets. The laws of nature will not move them on, we won’t let them evolve naturally, or adapt through hardship, and we shall hold them here in static race based perpetuity. They shall become a parody of themsleves,a parody designed by us.”
It’s racism. Plain and simple.
National could be called a race based party too, but in a more indirect sense. They were formed during a time when racism was acceptable and would have integrated those attitudes through its members and supporters and had them develop naturally with the times. But they were formed as an anti-socialist party, not a race based party. Now they concentrate (mainly) on creating a environment where anyone can do business regardless of race. Even the rise of “Asian” candidates in immgrant suburbs don’t create the “Chinese Party”. They join ACT, or National and sometimes even Labour. They do it because they realise that in capitalist societies, he who has the gold gets to eat. A chinese businessman turning down a lucrative deal because the buyer is not Chinese? Not very likely. That’s how we come to have FTAs.
The last vestige of blatant racism is when a party waves its racially diverse selections of candidates around as if it means something. It does, it means they’re slipping into the “almost tolerable fun and harmless” part of racism in NZ. Where Tojo the bloke from Japan is teased about eating rice all day, or Sergio is teased about his eating pasta and waving his hands around while he speaks…
The Maori party and the maori seats exist on the premise that maori cannot be represented any other way. But the thing is they can – as humans. Why they want to hold onto a racist view of themselves can only now be through fear of standing as men, or fear of losing a handout they have not earned. Anyone who says they are maori first and human second is lying to themselves. A white man can not claim to be Celtic first and human second. His spirituality is inextricably bonded to his mortality – and any real spiritual leader will attest to that. Our spirits live within these mortal bodies. Only an activist will lie. Neither can spirituality be stolen. Maori do not lose their life spirit by removing themselves from the moari roll.
As far as the government is concerned we must become one nation under trade. Religious beliefs, racial tiltings must be an agreement between private persons. The state would do well to stay right out of it. It can’t do the job better, it can’t understand beliefs from its isolated collective position. Racism will die away once both sides of the equation embrace their inherent equality, givning up their crutches and feuds, unrealistic outlooks on life and hard feelings. Swinging from one extreme to the other is not a progression towards equality.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Look Peter you have got to realise breaking election promises to do deals with left wing parties is not a problem, it’s only a problem if they are ‘high profile’ promises.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Racism will die away once both sides of the equation embrace their inherent equality.
I agree. And as I have suggested, I think that in time Maori may cease to feel the need of the Maori seats.
But what you seem to be advocating is for pakeha to announce to Maori: “Good news! There is no more rascism! So you do not need the Maori seats to ensure that Maori cultural perspectives are respected.”
The problem is that Maori do not agree with that, YET. And so it becomes pakeha dictating to Maori once again and suppressing a Maori viewpoint that THEY do not believe is unneeded.
When New Zealand IS all one happy family that understands cultural differences and has no problem with them, then Maori seats will be as unnecessary as seats for left-handed people. But we are not there yet.
If it is your opinion that having Maori seats is racist, then is it not provincialist to have special seats for people living in Canterbury? Is it not divisive for parties with variant views to have seats in Parliament?
And I stand by my opinion of how a move to abolish Maori seats against Maori wishes would be perceived by a large section of the New Zealand and international community.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
So the policy exisits solely to be traded in the event that the Maori Party support a centre-right coalition; that’s really clever, lets hope neither they nor the electorate who’d vote for it work it out too soon.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
It doesn’t much matter that a few maori or pakeha do not agree. It doesn’t alter the truth. Racism dies everytime we let it go. It comes back to life evrytime we use it for our own gain or against another person or group. Just let it go and walk away is the message. You gain a future, and lose a millstone round your neck. Maori perspective is a private concern as is my heritage. Respect is not gained by saying right, here is your culture, your perspective, it’s static and that’s the way it stays. That’s what we have now. The government cannot support a culture that wants to die, be born or evolve. The people living the culture must do it. The people holding the perspective must demonstrate it. Certain unrealistic ideas must be let go. Like I said, we are a capitalist nation, it is 2008, we are not going to back feudalism anytime soon.
As with most things in life, you have to leap the final part. It’s clear that the time is now. There will never be that perfect time you wait for when everyone understands and tolerates everyone else. There never is. The international community’s “perception” is irrelevent. We are a relatively isolated community. They don’t care what we get up to. They can squeal all they like. It will piss them off that we could reach racial harmony in our relative infancy. But when push comes to shove, they’ll still trade with us. Being a nuclear free zone has attracted more unofficial sanctions than any racial issue here has. Australia beats us at racial errors hands down and they’re miles ahead of us economically with better international relationships. End of the day, human issues just get brushed aside when faced with international trade concerns.
Variant views are only devisive once they are polarised. NZ politics runs like this: Pick a view, take it to the extreme, polarise it, debate it against everyone else and never give in. No exploration is made, no adaptive methodology, customisation for locality, or evolution of thought occurs. It is completely possible that a government could arrive at a best fit for NZ. Completely possible. But we have a fascination with ideologies – that’s what ruins our nation. No one here needs an ideology imported from elsewhere. We could have NZ flavoured everything, but instead we try to recreate East Germany circa 1980, just so a politician and a party can have an indentity. How stupid is that. The closest I’ve seen to adaptive thinking is in Rodney Hide’s views (this is not an endorsement for the party, merely an example) – on the one hand he is part of a liberal party and has some right wing economic views, on the other he is quite happy to have a state/council run bus company when it can be done better than a private company. It contradicts the right wing view, but it’s common sense and it works. It’s this display of common sense and thought that is lacking in ideologically run parties. NZ for NZders – people living here, not for the convenience of a politicians career.
Vote:October 2nd, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Jeez, that is a hell of a lot of dead rats that you nats are trying to swallow at once.
Vote:Come on Nats, have some balls, have a pakeha only vote to get rid of the
Maori seats.
Or is their none of your principles you will not dump to get a seat in one
of those flash cars ?
If you believe the Maori seats are racist fine, but at least have the courage
for a simple majority vote to get rid of them in the first month of the house
sitting.
I am sure the cops would be happy to drag those ex hori MPs
out of the house.