Melissa’s mistake

May 14th, 2009 at 8:28 am by David Farrar

Just been on TV3’s Sunrise this morning and we talked about the reported comments of Melissa Lee that the motorway would be good, because it would stop criminals from South Auckland coming into the suburb to commit crimes.

I actually first saw the comments on Not PC and sort of hoped he had it wrong.

The comments are of course a mistake. A politician should know not to repeat something they have been told (even if it was from the Police) if it is going to stereotype entire communities. The same thing applied for Lockwood’s comment pre-election. Like Melissa, he was repeating something that may (or may not) be true, but that doesn’t make it sensible to repeat.

And in this case, it is bizarre to say that a motorway will somehow affect numbers. I think criminals know how to use a bypass. I was tempted to joke on air that if it was that easy to prevent , we’d just build a motorway around the Hutt Valley :-)

So a pretty bad blunder by Melissa, who should apologise to put the controversy behind her. It’s a real lesson about the difference between being a general election candidate and a by-election candidate.

There is also the issue of the video produced by her before the election, placed on You Tube. I haven’t covered that in detail yet because so far I can’t see anywhere what Melissa has done wrong – my stance will change if such details emerge. However mud sticks, and the timing of the video story and her comments last night mean that what was always an uphill battle, has just got quite a bit steeper.

However there is still a month to go.

UPDATE: Melissa has put out a statement of apology:

today reiterated her apology for comments made at a public meeting on Wednesday night.

“I apologise unreservedly for the comments I made regarding South Auckland and the linkage that I drew between the planned extension and crime.”

“I was wrong to have implied that crime is solely a South Auckland problem, or that the new motorway would reduce crime.”

I sincerely regret my remarks.

Kudos to her for doing this, which allows the by-election focus to move back onto the real issues.

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130 Responses to “Melissa’s mistake”

  1. Tuija (218 comments) says:

    There is a month to go ? if Lee can fuck her campaign up so much in a week, imagine where she will be in a month
    Where is Ravi when you need him ?

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  2. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    I’m calling time of death on Lees campaign.

    Never underestimate the capacity for people screw up a win with their own mouths.

    I’ve oftern woundered if the best campaign would involve a thoughtful looking cadidate who never actually VERBALISED anything. (Plenty talk but SAY nothing) Shame we’ll never know.

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  3. Michaels (1,318 comments) says:

    So in politics you can’t face facts?
    The fact of the matter is most crime in Auckland is committed by those who live in South Auckland.
    My self when I lived in Epsom 3 years ago was burgled. The offenders were caught 3 months later, all lived in South Auckland. Two friends of mine, one in Remurea and one in Saint Johns, both burgled over the last 5 years, offenders caught, both from South Auckland.
    How often do we here of serious assaults on in the east or on the North Shore, offenders come from South Auckland.
    This is a fact.
    (and sometimes from West Auckland).

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  4. Buggerlugs (1,592 comments) says:

    it would stop criminals from South Auckland coming into the suburb to commit crimes.

    as opposed to the criminals currently living in Mt Albert? Oh, that’s right…one of them has already shifted out. To New York apparently.

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  5. david (2,557 comments) says:

    New Tui Billboard
    “Annette King says Lee accusations just Dirty Tricks”

    Why are we seeing headlines such as “accusations have surfaced that ……” instead of “Trevor Mallard accuses Mellisa Lee ….”?

    Surely the media in general are not totally complicit in such election-time mudslinging. Talk about making the news!!!

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  6. budgieboy (113 comments) says:

    They only ‘make the news’ they want david… imagine if Lee had gone on record as advocating private armies???

    How big of a story would that be?

    No the hysteria is always reserved for the centre right candidate and lefty gets a free pass.

    Mind you, I do think she has done her self no favours at all and will struggle like hell.

    Hope she can come back though.

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  7. goodgod (1,348 comments) says:

    Melissa lee making racist remarks? Ironic yes, but hardly the type of thing to destroy a campaign.

    There’s a hierachy to racism in NZ and talking about South Auckland’s crime, and by omission and association the large amount of maori/P.Island population, is perfectly acceptable – a cliche almost – even to white environmentally friendly left voting liberals.

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  8. Mike78 (80 comments) says:

    I heard someone on the radio (russel norman? not sure) describing her comments as Racist. Funny I didnt know South Auckland was a race. What is he actually thinking… perhaps he should be a little careful with the connections he is making with certain races and crime given he is referring to the most multicultural part of NZ with practically everything you can think of represented.

    Whilst hearing them all bleat on thou about who said what, and how many 100’s of millions out each other is out with calculations (not amounts of money that are real to to the man on the street) – you have to wonder the vast majority of people on the street listen or care about such silly things and whether its all just hot air and people will go vote along party lines on the day.

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  9. Trevor Mallard (248 comments) says:

    David asks:- Why are we seeing headlines such as “accusations have surfaced that ……” instead of “Trevor Mallard accuses Mellisa Lee ….”?

    Because TV3 got the story. Good research and great source. Only came to me as former Minister.

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  10. Trevor Mallard (248 comments) says:

    And DPF watch out or the good people of the Hutt will make you have a passport to visit and you certainly won’t have access to our motels.

    [DPF: I already joke to my Hutt friends (yes I have them) that when I visit I bring a passport and get a rabies shot :-)]

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  11. Michaels (1,318 comments) says:

    No Trevor, it’s because TV3 are as far bent left as you are.

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  12. virtualmark (1,528 comments) says:

    One side-effect of a bye-election is that the local candidates get a lot more media attention and scrutiny than they ever do in a general election, where the media focus is mainly on the leaders.

    So bye-elections give plenty of scope for ill-prepared local candidates to put their foot/feet in their mouth. Melissa just showed us how not to do it.

    If she carries on for 3 more weeks like she’s done this week then I’m with Murray in calling time of death on her campaign.

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  13. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    Melissa is a liability in much the same fashion that Trevor is.

    Lippy and unleashed.

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  14. Mike78 (80 comments) says:

    your right, they also have both spent time talking to the police in the last year or so it seems.

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  15. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    I see the hate driven left are up to the same old Bolshevik strategies in Mt Albert.

    Its Don Brash lied to the Brethren all over again. Once again the left raise weakly based smears that as usual are enthusiastically supported by their stinking cowardly media plants who dare to call themselves journalists.

    Same old Bolshevik methods. The politics of personal destruction and to hell with the issues.

    That’s because the left never have any ideas on issues other than to raise taxes and increase regulation.

    As an aside, I see that contemptible organisation NZ ON Air is “investigating” Miss Lee.

    How about some “journalist” investigating NZ On Air and the extremely close links to the Labour Party of some of its senior personnel?

    It won’t happen with NZ’s utterly politically corrupt mainstream media.

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  16. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    Trev doesn’t have an annoying CCN ‘merican accent though. Just an annoying bogun hutt accent.

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  17. Buggerlugs (1,592 comments) says:

    “Good research and great source” – oh, the one you flew to Wellington at the taxpayers’ expense? http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/content/mallard-lying-lee-attack-labour-stitch

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  18. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Oh yeah, Not PC, who also wrote this-

    “The one candidate who did mean what he said was Libertarianz candidate Julian Pistorius. (Disclosure: I was there carrying his pamphlets.) And ironically the one group with whom he made the strongest connection were the chaps from the Socialist Aotearoa grouping. ”

    Enough said about the Libertarianz.

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  19. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “No Trevor, it’s because TV3 are as far bent left as you are.”

    Dead right. Partisan disgraces to the craft of journalism and bent as a fucken boomerang. The epitome of the poisonous left wing media outlet.

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  20. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    Get it, Lippy?

    huh huh.

    Come on people, get with the program.

    Run with it.

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  21. tvb (4,422 comments) says:

    Let the bully boys including Mallard round on Melissa because she is a woman. But all candidates have had their problems. Russell Norman is advocating breaking the law on protest, and Labour’s Soldier of Fortune candidate has his problems too. Yes the pressure is on. But Melissa is holding her ground and good on her.

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  22. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    You made of the “no beanies” sign at Cobb & Co as well DPF.

    Even though you could use one most days.

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  23. glubbster (344 comments) says:

    Isn’t this by-election a big media beat up? It counts for little, Labour will win comfortably and the only question is by how much and how will the Greens do. Lets face it, National is never going to win Mt Albert (a tough seat to start with) with the Waterview motorway. The motorway is a big issue and the way Melissa should be dealing with it (and National as well) should be to focus on giving generous compensation (not too generous though) to those affected. This would be effectively dealing with the politics of the issue.
    The key point though is so long as residents are properly compensated, why should a couple of hundred residents stand in the way of progress and something Aucklanders and the economy desperately needs. I would not be surprised if their titles identified this issue at the time in any event although I could be wrong on this. Worth checking out though.
    As for the other storm in a teacup, I was listening to Radio NZ this morning on the way to work and Melissa maintains that no public money was used to help with her election campaign. It was volunteer time and the equipment was owned by her company. Sure the company also received public funding for many years, but it is drawing a long bow to claim that the use of the equipment was use of public money, given that Melissa herself had a substantial investment in the business.
    You got to love how Labour throw stones though!

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  24. Whaleoil (767 comments) says:

    Trevor you are being disingenuous.

    Labour paid for Ms Guruanathan to fly to Wellington and she met you in your office BEFORE she gave interviews. http://bit.ly/XHRek

    Since when has Labour been the researchers for TV3?

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  25. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    And thats called a headshot where I come from.

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  26. Vinick (216 comments) says:

    Melissa Lee has been am embarrassment.

    She clearly can’t win now, even if Norman gets a decent vote. I’ll be supporting ACT’s John Boscawen now (who I like more anyway).

    If Boscawen beats the Russel Norman it’ll be an embarrassment for the Greens they hopefully won’t recover from.

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  27. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    Since Liarbore lied about the following:

    1) EFA
    2) Waterfront stadium
    3) next contributor please

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  28. Whaleoil (767 comments) says:

    3) American Bagmen
    4)H Fee

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  29. libertyscott (359 comments) says:

    No, Melissa appears to be a flake. The lack of judgment in that comment is mind boggling.

    There is little point voting National in Mt. Albert, she’s there anyway. Shearer might even be the better centre right candidate, although Labour has been so utterly facile in its attempts to buy this electorate with money that doesn’t exist. Russel Norman will do well, thanks to Shearer’s background, and he can cleanly campaign against the motorway. John Boscawen can’t pretend to add anything, as he is already in Parliament and soiled his small government credentials with the gang insignia bill vote. So funnily enough, Libertarianz DO have a reason to stand.

    Besides, by-elections are a good chance for voters to send messages knowing they wont affect the government. Labour will deliver nothing, the Greens will bleat and protest but deliver nothing, National will at best mean a second rate voice in a backbench seat, ACT will deliver nothing, Julian Pistorius for Libertarianz would give Helen Clark the biggest headache.

    Just imagine Helen Clark’s reaction when she receives the news in New York that her seat has gone to Libertarianz, and be expected to offer congratulations. That alone should be a good reason for National and ACT supporters to tick Pistorius.

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  30. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Welcome to the shark tank Trevor.

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  31. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    Oh, Labour have paid for TV3 reporters to compile a story?

    I thought they only flew te standard/EPMU gimps to AU to rifle through old trading chits

    (before they appointed A.Little to be the arse of P.Goffs pantomime horse).

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  32. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Well thanks for THAT little mental picture Rainbow.

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  33. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Just imagine Helen Clark’s reaction when she receives the news in New York that her seat has gone to Libertarianz, and be expected to offer congratulations.”

    I’m sorry. I’ve got a reasonable imagination but it doesn’t extend to that kind of childish fantasy. Was Julian outspoken on his pet issues of homosexual marriage and drug liberalisation, or would that have been a bit too much “honesty” for the middle class voters of Mt. Albert?

    As usual, all the sanctimonious preaching Libs can do is attempt to make capital from sneering at others rather than promoting their own ideas.

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  34. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    or should I say ass?

    barrels, fish, labour.

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  35. mike12 (183 comments) says:

    Lee is an unfortunate side effect of the new inclusive national party.

    Can you imagine a middle class white man geting in trouble like she has?

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  36. Pat (76 comments) says:

    A Mt Albert resident just phoned Radio Live to say they went to a seminar organised by the community board about 3 weeks ago in which the Police made a presentation. Apparently they spoke about Mt Albert being targeted by criminals outside the area and the motorway would divert some of this criminal activity.

    This seems to back Lee’s story up, but certainly her message has got lost in the translation.

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  37. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    Lee is just a lippy redneck.

    And before you bleeding hearts get all PC on me – its a side effect of a nation at war for the past few decades, like the Israelis.

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  38. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    “Can you imagine a middle class white man geting in trouble like she has?”

    Yes I can Mike. Today we call him “Trevor”.

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  39. bharmer (687 comments) says:

    Trevor Mallard (77) Vote: 5 7 Says:
    May 14th, 2009 at 8:48 am
    And DPF watch out or the good people of the Hutt will make you have a passport to visit and you certainly won’t have access to our motels.

    [DPF: I already joke to my Hutt friends (yes I have them) that when I visit I bring a passport and get a rabies shot :-)]

    So you damn well should … we don’t have it here and don’t want you Wellingtonians lowering our health standards.

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  40. voice of reason (490 comments) says:

    Well if criminals are using existing roads to drive from South Akl to Mt Albert, then surely they must be sitting ducks in the traffic jams that the new motorway is going to solve apparently.

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  41. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “This seems to back Lee’s story up, but certainly her message has got lost in the translation.”

    No the message has got lost in the political manipulations of Labour’s media flunkies, and as usual the National Party are too constrained by their devotion to political correctness and too damn gutless to stand up for their candidate.

    (Ironically, Lee is utterly crippled by her own devotion to the poisonous concept of political correctness)

    (get rid of that progressive lamer Hooten as a fucken advisor.)

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  42. mike12 (183 comments) says:

    Muzz, I said “middle” class – Trev is mutt valley battler from struggle st.

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  43. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    I was using a broad brush I admit.

    He does fit the foot in mouth profile though. Way to pay for “news” stories Trevor.

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  44. RainbowGlobalWarming (288 comments) says:

    no mike12, he is not.

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  45. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    So is South Auckland a crime hot spot, or not? I was under the impression that South Auckland crime stats were significantly higher than the rest of the country. Or is that just me being prejudiced against South Aucklanders and the place is actually no more dangerous than other bits of NZ?

    I think the idea that a motorway will lower crime rates is pretty dumb. If the Police told that to Lee then they need to get a grip, and if Lee repeated it then she needs to show some critical thinking. But if South Auckland IS a high crime area, then something should be done about it rather than pretend everything is okay there.

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  46. Rebel Heart (249 comments) says:

    This blog would be so much better if you weren’t such a Nat hack David. I can’t stand the Left-wing but I equally hate reading National party apologetics.

    [DPF: SO fuck off you moron. Incidentally I have today done one TV and two radio interviews criticising Melissa, so how that makes me an apologist for National I leave to your bizarre fantasies]

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  47. Mike S (229 comments) says:

    Lee seems to have a death wish.
    Good – she’s not that smart or competent, another nat MP who really doesn’t have the credibility to be there.

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  48. Inventory2 (10,341 comments) says:

    So there’s no truth to the allegation that a certain Labour MP, recently elevated to the front bench, has been trying to peddle this story to the Press Gallery for two weeks then?

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  49. libertyscott (359 comments) says:

    Redbaiter you have no sense of humour, why don’t you ask Julian himself whether homosexual marriage is a pet issue for him? Libz policy is to remove the state from marriage, leave it as a private contract between consenting adult, but feel free to distort it to fit your own personal issues. You wouldn’t need to marry a man, since it obviously scares you so much that men might marry each other. Yes it is for drug legalisation, not ashamed of that, know anyone who has taken drugs? You dobbed them into the cops yet?

    I think you’ll find Julian is promoting ideas – private property rights and opposing a grotesque mega city for Auckland with the leftwing power of general competence is a good start, since neither National nor ACT show much sign of standing for either at the moment. The left are an easy target, Labour wants to waste more taxes and the Greens are reality evaders. I have no illusions, Julian’s chances of winning Mt Albert are extremely slim, but still – it would be fun to see how Libz doing well would frighten all those who believe in big brother nanny state, which is most those in Parliament.

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  50. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    Melissa, Melissa, Melissa, you pill!
    Now that bloody Russel Norman will WIN!

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  51. Kimble (4,440 comments) says:

    What an idiot.

    Drop her and put someone in who is going to THINK before they blather.

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  52. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    Sorry, I’m a bit slow (as you know) – cunning plan National! Labour will fall for this trap also! John Key is the Great Strategist after all!

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  53. Terry J (31 comments) says:

    Trevor Mallard has as much creditability as the myth that is spouted by some in the media that he is a Hard Man.This as most in the Hutt know this is bullshit and generally speaking whenever his name is mentioned it is accompanied with the saying “Trevor Trevor Jelly meat for Dinner” He is just a pussy

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  54. Luke H (73 comments) says:

    it would be fun to see how Libz doing well would frighten all those who believe in big brother nanny state, which is most those in Parliament.

    Not to mention most of those here, no matter how much they claim otherwise! :-p

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  55. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    It might be a stupid and inaccurate statement but no more stupid and inaccurate than other arguments Labour and the Greens have been pushing in recent weeks

    Such as
    At large seats will all be won by rich white men from Remuera
    A super city will inevitably lead to privatisation
    Abolishing Maori council seats that never existed is undemocratic and racist
    Motorways divide commuinities
    Doing nothing and allowing ten of thousands of cars a day to spill out into suburban streets is delivers positive social and environmental outcomes
    Paying people above market prices for their houses is somehow evil

    and the list goes on …
    Please feel free to add to it

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  56. spector (180 comments) says:

    In a perfect world Shearer would be the National candidate and Lee would be the Labour one. Unfortunately we don’t live in a perfect world. And even though I don’t like Labour, Shearer is obviously a better candidate and I’d prefer to have him in parliament then Lee who, apart from being a bit thick, I can’t see as changing NZ in any way what-so-ever. Sad but true.

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  57. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Redbaiter you have no sense of humour”

    Maybe its just a bit too obtuse for sanctimonious Libertarians.

    BTW, Rod Hide has been the leading objector to council’s “general competence” powers in NZ.

    “it would be fun to see how Libz doing well would frighten all those who believe in big brother nanny state,”

    Yeah well it will never happen while you make peripheral issues your priority and put things that really matter to NZ’s punished and pummeled middle class to the side. Small government, less regulations and lower taxes is all you need to promote. Put all the doctrine and religion and Ayn Rand bible bashing aside and keep it simple.

    ..and for God’s sake try not to sound so sanctimonious all the time..!!!

    ..and tell that low IQ pompous fool LGM I’m on Kiwiblog most times, and if he ever wants to come out from under the protection of the skirts of the censoring Mother Cresswell, and really debate an issue, he knows where to find me.

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  58. burt (8,271 comments) says:

    I’m starting to form the conclusion that the opposition are the only effective part of govt. It’s just great to see Trevor Mallard suddenly concerned about spending public money. Hell this is the same guy who voted to validate 14 years of an unknown amount of money because it was mainly his party that spent it. We have no idea how many millions were spent illegally on election advertising over that 14 year period because the likes of Mallard made sure we would never find out.

    Now it’s al a bit different isn’t it. Mallard is suddenly concerned that process should be followed and MP’s should be accountable. It’s OK when Labour do it eh Mallard.

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  59. lilman (959 comments) says:

    Trevor,dont take things so seriously.

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  60. lilman (959 comments) says:

    Trevor,dont take things so seriously.

    Remember when you were a teacher, my Aunt does, she taught at your school and to be honest she would mark you a not achieved.

    Im blue collar, work in a timber mill, but the fact that you WERE Minister of Education still stuns me.

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  61. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Trevs not here man.

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  62. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    Thanks alot Miss Korea! Perhaps the Nats are right to keep their women in the background – look what happens when they let them see the light of day! The ‘Rankin Government’ will be brought to it’s knees by it’s ditzy chicks.

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  63. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    She wasn’t stereotyping an entire community. She was reporting what had been said to her by an expert on crime in the electorate.

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  64. Jeff83 (745 comments) says:

    Hehe its all the media’s faul, those darn liberal pansies using things like facts, and statements and objectivity to smear the country loving right. If only we could have Fox replace and show true non bias and debate with passion and inference that would be awesome.

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  65. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    The ‘Rankin Government’ will be brought to it’s knees by it’s ditzy chicks.

    I heard that Rankin doesn’t even know the difference between “its” and “it’s”.

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  66. burt (8,271 comments) says:

    Thinking about ditzy chicks on their knees… Yes sounds like a good idea to me – let me interview the next one please.

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  67. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    I heard that Rankin doesn’t even know the difference between “its” and “it’s”.

    Stupid Rankin!

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  68. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    It’s all her fault!

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  69. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Hell look at the inclusive left go all spastic on the women today.

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  70. Ratbiter (1,265 comments) says:

    Oh dear. At least she didn’t question whether they can wipe their own arses in South Auckland!

    National – keeping the good people of Mt Chowbert safe from Sth Akl Maoris, Islanders and “other criminal underclasses” since 1936???

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  71. Ratbiter (1,265 comments) says:

    “I was tempted to joke on air that if it was that easy to prevent crime, we’d just build a motorway around the Hutt Valley :-)

    PS: I heard somewhere that the construction of Berlin’s Avus expressway in the 1930s impacted the local communities massively. Suddenly here was a new barrier even more impregnable to foot traffic than the river, swept clear by high-ranking nazis as they roared past at huge speeds in the Mercedes 500k staff cars with little or no warning.

    Fortunately, in this day and age poor people can have cars too, so the effect of motorway=fence to keep poor people out has been lost…

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  72. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    Aside from the outrageous prejudice inherent in her comments, I’ve been pondering all moring the logic of exactly how building a motorway will keep South Auckland’s criminals out of Mount Albert. The intuitive reasoning would be that it would do the opposite. But I think I might have finally worked it out. Clever Melissa! Seems she secretly agrees with Russel Norman’s analysis of the Waterview connection after all.

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  73. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    This is one of the biggest problems NZ faces The Socilaists and Communists have F…ed over our society so much we arent allowed to speak the truth.

    I mean if I say a red car is red than even if one arsehole says that is offensive to them then it is and I must apologise\

    We have a weak kneed weak willed unprincipled unethical immoral son of a bitch attitude running thru our society

    Well aresholes As one who aint PC and culturally correct and wont be cowered by the tosser brigade i say to my fellow citizens who feel likewise let us rise up and piss the arseholes off as much as possible

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  74. tvb (4,422 comments) says:

    Labour have decided to do negative and dirty. What does that tell you?? This by-election means more to Labour than anyone else. If they lose they are in deep trouble. If they win narrowly almost as bad. National has nothing to lose and much to gain. Labour have everything to lose and no much to gain except for a repeat of Ms Clark’s 10,000 vote majority. So they get good old Trev to go dirty. I expect Labour to win.

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  75. Kimble (4,440 comments) says:

    “National MP Melissa Lee’s comment that a new motorway could stop criminals coming from South Auckland and committing crime in Mount Albert was “stupid”, Prime Minister John Key says.”

    Nice to have a PM who’s first reaction is to call the statement stupid.

    How would HC have handled this?

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  76. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    BTW Trev is like all so called bullies Full of piss and wind When they come face to face with someone bigger or in his case more powerful than them they just go all pussylike
    Their like a seagull All noise Swop in shit all over everyone and then fly off

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  77. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    Kimble – She would have called it ‘stupid’ too, given that it was said by a Nat MP.

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  78. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Okay, someone explain to me what she said that was wrong or stupid. To do so, point out to me which of the following statements is incorrect.

    1. The local police commander told her that criminals driving from South Auckland to Mt Albert to burgle homes is the biggest problem facing local police.
    2. The local police commander was not lying to her.
    3. The local police commander is an expert on local policing.
    4. She should trust people who are experts in their field to be right about matters in their field.
    5. She is under no obligation to hide such expert opinion from the public.

    It seems to me that if you don’t disagree with any of those statements, you’re left with a woman reporting the honest and accurate expert opinion of someone who she can rationally believe knows more about the matter than she does.

    Even if you think the local police commander is wrong about it being the biggest issue facing local police, you can hardly fault her for relying on his opinion on the matter over yours. And if he is right about it, it’s not prejudiced, it’s simply stating a fact. If you don’t like the statement, you don’t like the fact, and the problem is with you, not her.

    The closest thing I can find to fault here is her saying something that people would leap on, misinterpret and blow out of proportion.

    In other words, the stupid thing she did was apparently saying something that people would say was a stupid thing to say.

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  79. village idiot (748 comments) says:

    Ryan – correct.

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  80. Ratbiter (1,265 comments) says:

    Ryan
    – the main mistake was not beginning that statement with a solid appeal to authority e.g. “Local Police Commander ___ informed me that over ___% of burglaries in this area are committed by Sth Auckland Residents. That is a significant portion of total crime in this area.”

    Neglecting to give this reference leaves the casual observer with the impression that this is just her vague, baseless opinion of Sth Akl in general.

    Obviously, the second mistake is failing to explain how, if the route will speed up travel for honest citizens, why exactly should it act as a barrier to crims?

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  81. bchapman (649 comments) says:

    Didnt realise burglars were so time sensitive when deciding where to rob. Surely the key thing is to reduce crime not try and shift it about by building roads.

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  82. burt (8,271 comments) says:

    I think her biggest mistake was to not say “Move on” when challenged. The good people of Mt Albert love that line and respect anyone who threats the truth with complete contempt.

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  83. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    Ryan
    – the main mistake was not beginning that statement with a solid appeal to authority e.g. “Local Police Commander ___ informed me that over ___% of burglaries in this area are committed by Sth Auckland Residents. That is a significant portion of total crime in this area.”

    Neglecting to give this reference leaves the casual observer with the impression that this is just her vague, baseless opinion of Sth Akl in general.

    But she did actually say that the local police commander told her this. She didn’t phrase it exactly as you’ve suggested, but she did say that he was the one who told her.

    Obviously, the second mistake is failing to explain how, if the route will speed up travel for honest citizens, why exactly should it act as a barrier to crims?

    That’s lost on me too, but not explaining further (and was she asked to explain that further?) hardly warrants the response I’m seeing.

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  84. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    DPF said: There is also the issue of the video produced by her before the election, placed on You Tube. I haven’t covered that in detail yet because so far I can’t see anywhere what Melissa has done wrong…

    Can you spot an authorisation statement anywhere in it DPF? It’s at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULbLhn7Y9MI

    [DPF: Nope I can't. And yes it should have been. So Melissa joins Jim Anderton, the Greens, NZ First and several in Labour to have breached the EFA if she was indeed the promoter of the Ad]

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  85. local jokel (2 comments) says:

    Rule 1: never trust anything you read, see or hear in the media
    Rule 2: never trust the media
    Rule 3: never trust a politician especially when they are talking about crime
    Rule 4: … you got it

    All I heard was a one sound-bite. I was flabbergasted. It made me laugh, people talked about it at morning tea as well as the old crone they just appointed to the Family Commission.

    Melissa Lee just hasn’t got the finely developed double-speak one expects from our natural born leaders. Surely there is a finishing school where she could brush up on the latest forked tongued platitudes we have come to expect from the Auckland ruling class.

    Your gonna love your super city. Politicians and the media are unanimous on this, so they are obviously working for your best interests (see rules above). Head-office will only have to deal with one big cigar, one super-sized spaghetti junction snarl-up and one big crime problem. As they said when Auckland got to 500,000 “We’re a great big city now!”

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  86. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull got it in one

    See you are all idiots. You are critcising a person who is speaking facts Known provable facts

    How dumbarse can you be

    You have been suckered into the Orwellian world of the Socilaistst and Communists where facts are only facts if the elite say they are facts.

    People like Trev. If Trev says it is so then to many of the idiots who inhabit this site it must be so

    Never mind that there are irrefutable facts that disprove it.

    So now dumbarses Melissa states some facts and JK says that is stupid

    Welllllllllllllllll JK when facts are stupid then you have just totally disqualified yourself from being a real true leader

    Instead you have sunk to the PC culturally stupid level by defending the PC culturally stupid and grossly insulted myself and every thing citizen.

    Wise up JK there are some of us with an IQ higher than a gnats nuts.

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  87. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Got a link to these “facts” gd or should we just take your word for it?

    Also would a motorway not make it easier for people from South Auckland to get to the area?

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  88. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    National MP Melissa Lee’s comment that a new motorway could stop criminals coming from South Auckland and committing crime in Mount Albert was “stupid”, Prime Minister John Key says.

    Says it all, really.

    Now, waht’s key got to say about Bill English attacking private property rights by browbeating banks in to lowering profits and thus shareholder dividends and share value? Or maybe he’s waiting for Melissa Lee to speak first.

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  89. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    sonic said: Also would a motorway not make it easier for people from South Auckland to get to the area?

    No, sonic – you obviously missed my reasoning why not.

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  90. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    sonic Dont be disengenious old bean See Ryans list and tell me which one you dispute and why sunshine

    My argument centres on the PC culturally sensitive who must deny the undeniable

    Like there is a crime problem in Sth Auckland but for God sake dont talk about otherwise you will upset Russel ( with one L) Gormless who would rather stick his head up his arsehole than admit there is a crime problem in Sth Auckland/

    Why Because then Russel(with one L) wont actually have to confront and front up to this matter as he prefers to hug the trees than find solutions to problems because the solutions heaven forbid just might upset the criminals.

    And Russel (with one L) couldnt possible upset the criminals cause it aint their fault

    Its the fault of the rich pricks

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  91. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    You ask for facts, what do we get from gd, gibberish. Yes there is a crime problem in parts of South Auckland, the poor parts. Poverty=crime in South Auckland as in anywhere else on the planet.

    I would venture to suggest that the solution is to start to do something about poverty, not to try and cage the whole population of Manukau city into some sort of ghetto.

    However thats probably over your heard gd, I’ll leave you to your spittle flecked rants about some imaginary communist conspiracy in NZ.

    (btw, like it Toad!)

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  92. tvb (4,422 comments) says:

    I guess Melissa made the mistake of voicing what everyone in Auckland thinks – they look South and see trouble – welfare dependancy, crime, immigration problems. I do not think her comments will be all that unpopular.

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  93. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    sonic old bean have I upset you. So sorry. I will immediately go to the poor parts of Sth Auckland and spread whats left of my meagre earnings amoungst the poor.

    Mind you most of them probably have a tax free income greater than mine from the proceeds of their (cough) endevours.

    But back to the main point sonic. You shouldnt be so upset when confronted with the undeniable

    Remember remember the eighth of November.

    Former leader has now ridden off one broomstick.

    So now speaking the truth and facts is mostly allowed. I will forgive JK his ideology burp in almost but not quite emulating the former leader in looking to shut down a colleague when their sin was to state the obvious but JK will have to learn to curb his instinct to supress open opinion.

    He now has a significant church of citizens who are mature enough to accept an expression of open honest held opinion.

    He does not need as the former leader did to crush debate that she and her flunkies did not agree with.

    So please JK when the idiots like Trev and Russel(with one L) Gormless make dicks of themselves just tell them what they are

    Remember the vast majority will agree with you

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  94. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “Poverty=crime in South Auckland as in anywhere else on the planet.”

    A rank socialist lie, used to justify their thieving and lust for power.

    All over the globe there are civilisations where poverty is dire yet crime is negligible.

    Socialism, with one of its major planks being the destruction of private property rights as pushed by amoral animist knuckle draggers like you Sonik, is what causes crime.

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  95. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    “mature enough to accept an expression of open honest held opinion.”

    Something you should perhaps try on occasion mate.

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  96. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    “All over the globe there are civilisations where poverty is dire yet crime is negligible”

    Name 4.

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  97. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    You saying you don’t know of one? How fucken ignorant can you get?

    How about Bedouin in the Middle east, Subsistence farmers in Indonesia, Tuareg in Northern Sahara, Sri Lankan villages. I lived there and I know you sad commie propagandist.

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  98. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    There is some truth to what she said sadly.

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  99. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    Her statement it’s not that unpopular – the stuff poll has support/understanding versus offensive and inappropriate running at 59-41%
    Toad, your reasoning is based on a 2 lane road – 3 lanes will not be packed by 2015

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  100. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Laughable ratbiter, utterly laughable.

    Just to take on of your examples, the Bedouin

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negev_Bedouins#Crime

    Or the happy peaceful Tuaregs, crime free, well except when they are killing solders

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6982266.stm

    The wider point of course is not absolute but relative poverty, inequality if you like. You can of course point to some mythical pre-industrial subsistance farmers and go “where is the crime” but trying to use that in relation to a modern urban society is about as stupid as it gets.

    Try again, name 4.

    Oh yea and you lived in all of those places, I believe you so much.

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  101. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “trying to use that in relation to a modern urban society is about as stupid as it gets.”

    Yeah of course. Piss weak, but what else could you say? Poverty does not cause crime. The amorality fostered by power obsessed commies like you is what causes crime.

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  102. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    WOW!!! redbaiter names 4 places, but NO stats to back his idiotic claims. Still, we always new red was idiotic, now we know by how much.

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  103. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    I swatted your points ratbiter, I’m off to work now so I’ll give you time to get on that google and try and find a decent example.

    xxx

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  104. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    sonic I have always excepted your expressions as being an honestly held opinion Misguided most of the time but honest

    And I have always forgiven you your mistakes I realise you just cant help it.

    However we of the enlightened RIGHT whose party is now the GOVERNMENT ( trying to be subtle old bean) wish to re educate you ( sorry probably wrong choice of expression but know you lot understand this stuff)

    See unlike your lot we (I) actually critcised my leader in public and know I will not be flogged or expelled for doing so.

    And that is the fundemental difference between us. WE of the RIGHT are quite comfortable in calling our leaders out when we believe they have strayed from the path of rightenous

    Your lot on the other were so timid of “her thats now gone” that you couldnt.

    And of course the stuff poll is the proof positive that we are RIGHT.

    The people have spoken sonic

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  105. local jokel (2 comments) says:

    Re: Redbaiter, gd and other apologists for insecurity compounds and poor bashing.

    Crime is an equal opportunity employer. Just as many crooks on the North Harbour, only they know how to work the system much better than poorly educated South Auckland. Of course, you already know that and are in fact posturing.

    The biggest crooks, embezzlers and con-artist pass themselves of as the crème de la crème and these groveling and posturing fools praise them and their imperial pipe dreams and sparkling new clothes, in the hope that some of the golden effluent will dribble down to them.

    Wake up and get real you prissy ideologues. It’s time to quietly slip the Ayn Rrand into the recycling bin, you can be sure Alan Greenspan has done so already. Try this on for a new theory: The scum rises to the top, the sediment sinks to the bottom. The scum employs the sediment to herd the middle classes. That seems to be where the Super city highway to hell is headed.

    Speaking of scum, Mr Madoff is high class scum but he is but one crook of many. Apparently you guys wouldn’t know a real crim if he served you with an eviction notice for yet another penis extension off-ramp. But seriously what good is poor bashing when all it does is increases the chances that you will be bashed back?

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  106. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    ????

    Hey Loco, try it again, with coherency.

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  107. adc (595 comments) says:

    what a cretinous remark she made!

    firstly, why would a motorway prevent people from going to Mt Albert?

    I was amazed she actually tried to justify the statement later as well. Incredibly stupid. The herald also has mention of murmurings around NZOnAir funding used to fund her political campaign.

    She might be toast soon if that one has legs.

    As for remarks about referring to Sth Auckland as being “racist”. That IMO simply infers to me that the person making the claim of racism believes living in Sth Auckland is a racial issue. How the f*ck does that work? That surely makes the person making the racism claim a raving racist themself?

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  108. adc (595 comments) says:

    JK needs to get rid of her, she’s obviously trying to torpedo National’s chances in Mt Albert.

    Please John get someone in there with some credibility before it’s too late!

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  109. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    “If Lee can fuck her campaign up so much in a week…” – Tuija

    “I’m calling time of death on Lees campaign…” – Murray

    “Melissa just showed us how not to do it…” – virtualmark

    “Melissa Lee has been am embarrassment…” – Vinick

    “Lee is an unfortunate side effect of the new inclusive national party…” – mike12

    “Melissa appears to be a flake. The lack of judgment in that comment is mind boggling…” – libertyscott

    “…Lee who, apart from being a bit thick, I can’t see as changing NZ in any way what-so-ever…” – spector

    “She’s not that smart or competent…” – Mike S

    “What a cretinous remark she made!…” adc

    And that’s just a sampling from Kiwiblog, hardly a forum known for robust support of evil left-wing (or, as tvb seems to think, paternalistic) plots.

    The woman is clearly unsuited to the role of MP, by virtue of complete lack of nous and regardless of whether or not the latest gaffe has overtones of racism.

    Now normally that wouldn’t be a problem – voters are smart enough to spot a waste of space (unless they live in Ohariu, it seems) and vote accordingly. But she’s already an MP, and one that National was parading before the media and public prior to the election as representing the cream of its candidate intake.

    There seems to be only three conclusions possible:

    a) No one with aptitude greater than that displayed by Ms Lee has any interest in standing for the National Party; or
    b) Her elevation was based on something other than aptitude and possibly represents cynical tokenism; or
    c) National’s list selection and ranking process is deeply flawed.

    I suspect a combination of b & c. Of course National are by no means alone in this, and people unsuited to the task of representing us have always got into Parliament. But at least it used to be restricted to a handful of safe seats.

    MMP – or at least that part of it surrounding list selection – is flawed and is giving us a Parliament filled with a large number of people who really ought not to be there (e.g. every single NZF MP in the last Parliament), and in whose elevation we had no say. Melissa Lee is but one of them.

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  110. Murray M (455 comments) says:

    I think Goff and his fellow labour chronies are picking on Melissa cause she’s Asian. Under Helen they were afterall in bed with Winston. Members of the Maori party have made worse public racial comments than what Melissa said. Is the outrage due to an element of truth in Melissa’s statement?
    Or is it that your not allowed to criticise an area that contains a large population of Maori and PI’s, despite the fact that the crime statistics lead some credibility to what Melissa said.

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  111. Trevor Mallard (248 comments) says:

    Buggerlugs :-“Good research and great source” – oh, the one you flew to Wellington at the taxpayers’ expense? ”

    For the record on this blog – already on Whale and mine, I’ve never met the woman, she has never been to my office, I first knew she was the source when the programme went to air, she has not been financed through either Labour Party or Labour parliamentary funds and I’m happy to answer further questions.

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  112. Trevor Mallard (248 comments) says:

    Inventory2 (2953) Vote: 9 2 Says:

    May 14th, 2009 at 10:00 am
    So there’s no truth to the allegation that a certain Labour MP, recently elevated to the front bench, has been trying to peddle this story to the Press Gallery for two weeks then?

    There is no truth to the allegation. I first knew of the story last week, and knew who the source was when it went to air.

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  113. bwakile (757 comments) says:

    Am I the only person who thinks that Trevor Mallard showing up here is basically a sign that he has given up the aspirations of ever being taken seriously again as a politician. I suspect he is resigned to his fate. Helen used him and the rest of his party as a stepping stone.

    [DPF: Actually I take it as a sign that Labour realise engaging in conversations with voters is a good thing to do]

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  114. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    I say this as, among other things, someone who is proud to consider himself very left-wing and an anarchist. That means I have no love for political parties in general, and for centre-right and right parties in particular.

    Most (all?) of the comments listed by Rex Widerstrom are in this thread, about Lee’s comments about South Auckland.

    They are undeserved.

    No one has answered my points about her referring to the expertise of someone who she can reasonably believe knows more about policing in Mt Albert than any of her detractors. All she has done is say something that enough people have leapt on that it’s considered an act of terrible foolishness.

    Sure, I don’t get how the proposal is supposed to impact burglars coming into Mt Albert, but the majority of criticism seems to be about mentioning South Auckland by name, rather than the technicalities of the claim. She hasn’t been given a chance to explain how the proposal is supposed to impact those burglars.

    How about giving her that chance before jumping on this train?

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  115. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Why Lee ? why a carpet bagger ?
    If the Nats wanted to go down the PC route beside being female and Korean she would also need to be in a wheelchair, and be a gay solo mother.
    Still the company she has ties with is getting it’s snout into the tax payer trough so silk knickers could be in the plan.

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  116. s.russell (1,642 comments) says:

    So Lee thinks South Auckland is full of criminals. What a disgraceful and politically incorrect attitude. She will be punished severely by Mt Albert voters, who of course do not share this belief. Pull the other one, please.

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  117. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    So Lee thinks South Auckland is full of criminals.

    She didn’t say that.

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  118. tvb (4,422 comments) says:

    Trev just loves bullying women

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  119. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    “someone who is proud to consider himself very left-wing and an anarchist.”

    Yeah well that about says all that needs to be said don’t it. Only a complete bimbo, (and there’s plenty of them around), could imagine that the extreme left (absolute government control) and anarchy (absolutely no government control) had anything in common. (forget it Ryan, I don’t really want to know)

    That said, I haven’t answered your points because I agree with them. (more or less) This is just more of the same old same old. The left beat up a non issue, their media plants run with it, and the dimwits at National, encouraged by unprincipled public relations advisors, immediately go into apologise mode.

    National needs to grow some balls and some brains and come back at the left. Especially their scum mainstream media allies posing as journalists.

    They need to stand by Melissa. Silly little PC twit that she is, sucking on the taxpayer tit for years, and drinking the pseudo liberal kool ade by the bucketful, she’s National’s pick and they should go to the mattresses for her.

    What do the other right wingers want here? The do good with other people’s money parachute candidate or Melissa??

    Its that simple.

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  120. Steve (4,563 comments) says:

    Melissa,
    Just keep telling the truth. The rent-a-mob will always be there digging dirt.
    Everyone in Mt Albert has a choice to vote for any candidate. Will they just be complacent and think safe Labour seat, or will they vote?
    Forget south auckland, they steal from their own.
    You don’t just battle Labour, you battle MSM to create news, which is another form of reporting only what Labour voters want to hear.
    Turn off the TV and Radio and compain for your upcoming win.

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  121. Southern Raider (1,830 comments) says:

    A guy on NewsTalk just rang up and said he is a stauch Labour supporter, but going to vote Melissa because of her honesty.

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  122. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    (forget it Ryan, I don’t really want to know)

    A common affliction.

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  123. bwakile (757 comments) says:

    The day we make our politicans only say politically correct things is the day we will have finally signed over our right to freedom of expression.
    The day we expect our politicans to apologise for expressing an opinion is also a sad day.

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  124. Tuija (218 comments) says:

    Obviously as Helen’s old seat it is a very important byelection and National would have put one of their best candidates forward.
    A campaign in tatters in just a week Surely National could have fielded a better candidate then Lee she is hopelessly out of her depth
    Don’t get me wrong I want National to do badly but really, put up a fight for gods sake

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  125. adc (595 comments) says:

    the new motorway stopping people going to Mt Albert….

    is that like the Alaskan oil pipeline stops the migration of caribou?

    puh lease.

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  126. NoCash (258 comments) says:

    I wonder how many posters here are from Mt Albert… not many if at all is my guess.

    If Ms Lee wins the seat, how many here will eat the pie…

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  127. burt (8,271 comments) says:

    I actually think a tunnel is a great idea. It might be interesting to re-cost the tunnel project now the construction industry isn’t holding the same cards it was a year or two back. Big jobs making small profits is better than no jobs if you run a construction company.

    Edit: I’m not from Mt. Albert – I don’t think I’ve ever been there.

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  128. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    burt said: I actually think a tunnel is a great idea. It might be interesting to re-cost the tunnel project now the construction industry isn’t holding the same cards it was a year or two back.

    Hey, burt, the costs have dropped dramatically now we have Melissa Lee on the job – she’s so good at digging holes she could dig the tunnel single-handedly in a few weeks, and the only cost would be her Parliamentary salary.

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  129. burt (8,271 comments) says:

    toad

    lol. I’m gob smacked to tell the truth. I’m not a fan of Norman so I kinda hope he takes a hammering on the day but WTF are National doing?

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  130. reid (16,467 comments) says:

    “WTF are National doing?”

    They’re flying kites to gauge depth-of-feeling across the wider Auckland region.

    Fiendishly clever.

    Either that or Lee is insane.

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