The moderation experiment
July 31st, 2009 at 7:43 am by David FarrarThe moderation experiment has ended. Note this does not mean anything goes – the existing comments policy and demerits scheme still applies.
Feedback is sought and welcome on what you thought of the change during the four days – the pros and cons, any suggestions for future etc.
July 31st, 2009 at 7:45 am
only that 90% of the abuse comes from the rightwing/the farrites..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
[DPF: Wow Phil just proves himself wrong by starting the very first comment with abuse]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:03 am
I didn’t notice moderation working for example:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/mps_expenses.html#comment-590696 is a clearly homophobic statement.
[DPF: And this is a perfect example of why I don't want to start moderating - the unreasonable expectation. I deleted several comments from that thread but that comment was made at 10.30 pm at night and Ferdinand is complaining about it at 8 am the next morning. People expect a 24x7 service for free which is nuts]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:09 am
Ferdinand – that was so gay pointing that out.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:09 am
Trouble is, you cannot give demerits to Cameron for taking the piss out of you on his Whaleoil site (Farrar’s troll farm – I like it!).
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:11 am
how many comments did you delete?
I did notice the absence of the usual “….eh..?” comments on many threads.
was that a result of the moderation?
[DPF: I deleted 20 - 30 comments I would say. Can't recall if any were from Phil U. Most of his comments were in the unmoderated general debate thread]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:15 am
Brian – lol.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:16 am
Only that phool is such an obnoxious offensive bludger that he attracts 90% of the abuse and labels everyone not as mentally impaired as him “rightwing”.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:21 am
The only thing wrong with the moderation experiment that I see is that phil ure is still here.
Althought to be fair to him, you can get demerits here without even knowing it. Apparently I had 20 for offensive language. I went back and looked at all the posts made around the time the demerits were handed out and the only thing I found was a comment on a post about a polar bear eating a woman at Berlin Zoo and part of the caption contest where I used the words ‘What a stupid Cnut’ – a reference to the bear named Cnut at the zoo – and the woman’s lack of brains of course.
[DPF: Having looked back it seems you got the 20 by mistake - you quoted someone else getting demerits and when I did an update I applied them to you by mistake it seems. Mind you you came close anyway for comparing Cullen to Beria!]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:22 am
I dont know if it worked or not. I know that people like myself get pretty short with some of the commenters here, but MNIJ is getting really nasty. I realise that his misogynistic and racist comments is to provoke and that he is trolling, however racist comments is never a joke.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/general_debate_30_july_2009.html#comment-590433
His comments about asians and agent orange.
Great fodder for journalist to come out with statements like “sometimes rabid comments on right wing blogs..”
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:23 am
We don’t know what we don’t know. One of the things we don’t know is what got deleted (if anything), and whether or not people merely behaved better to avoid being chopped. A sort of placebo effect?
Did Phil post fewer “..eh?” lines or did you delete some?
The week in hindsight seems to have been marginally less abusive, but that may be wishful thinking. If it cost a lot of your time. I wonder if the effort was worth it, given the (from my perspective) marginal diminution in the levels of blog rage.
What’s your own perception of what happened?
[DPF: I'll post in detail next week. Initial thoughts are that most threads were better and stayed on topic. However heated threads like the Bennett/DPB was near impossible to rein in even with deleting the worst comments. I thought leaving general debate unmoderated was useful. I also noted that for moderation to be effective it has to be quick - to occur before a thread gets hijacked - and that is impractical for one person to do unless you spend all day and night watching the threads]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:26 am
The thing is Phil ‘s abuse is not that bad. I realise it is because of the mental handicap, however, it is only slightly annoying having to scroll past hist verbal diarrhea. The likes of Jack and the other little trolls are far more disturbing.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:33 am
“..but MNIJ is getting really nasty..”
and bok/the safari-suited-one.. said that..?..
..whoar..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:34 am
Bok “rabid” is leftist code for anyone not a socialist saying that something thats is a load of crap is in fact a load of crap. Just as “racist” is leftist code for I’m losing this argument.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:35 am
I think probably a good start. Obviously it isn’t time effective to keep doing it comprehensively, but ongoing a few pertinent reminders wouldn’t hurt. Even in General Comments. If enough posters get the message – don’t have to be nice to each other, but no need for nasty – then it could work itself out.
There will be some who may never learn. They can either be ignored or taken to task. And all of us can slip up at times, if it isn’t excessive then I think it has to be accepted.
We have to keep remembering, it is a form of a community, with community responsibilities, but it is in DPF’s blog so he ultimately can call the shots. We don’t own it nor have the right to do whatever we want, but we can be a part of it and make it work.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:35 am
I wonder if you can setup the karma system that if a post gets enough negative karma it is deleted?
[DPF: I tried to put in a plugin that would allow people to hide (just for them) comments below a certain karma. But it killed the server on a system with 450,000 comments]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:39 am
I just wish people wouldn’t feed the trolls. They soon die if they are neglected.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:46 am
Given how counter productive they are to the the left Greg I’m sure Phil Goof agrees with you.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:50 am
As one who has had both his fair, and his unfair, share of demerits, I still prefer the demerits to the moderation. Deleting a post in the middle of a thread can lead to all sorts of misunderstandings and disjunction to the communication.
Forget the moderation, only delete a post if it may have legal implications for you, and continue with the demerits.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:51 am
How counter productive is it when those who have assigned themselves a label (eg right/left) have to keep applying an opposite label to anyone they disagree with? I know it’s a bit of sport to some, and it can’t be moderated, but the simplistic stupidity gets very boring.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:52 am
Suggestions. You asked.
I think that at the end of every month, the person with the most NET thumbs down is banned for 1 month + another month for each of any previous bans suffered.
I have found the people here RUTHLESSLY fair. Apart from one or two who seem to “thumb” along ideological lines no matter the argument in the comment, I have found people here to be anti-negativitity. I allow myself a nasty joke at time, where the humour cuts like a razor blade, and I get more thumbs down because it is negative than thumbs up because it is a funny, apt or clever observation.
Based on that, I have faith in this community to be able to find balance. It also gets rid of the obvious pests. They either adjust the way they present their feedback, or they find themselves at the bottom of the list at the end of the month.
Of course, I am thinking of one commenter in particular who I do not think adds ANYTHING positive to this discussion, but isn’t that just what we are setting out to achieve?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:57 am
Wow… overall this is probably the most balanced, reasonable and positive thread I have ever seen! Well done everyone…
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:01 am
I would consider the “moderation” exercise a feeble attempt at political correcteness and a dismal failure.
DPF deleted a couple of my comments because he considered them too harsh and excessive for his taste, i.e., I called leeches the two beneficiaries that complained about their “entitlements”.
I’ll say it again, that’s akin to ban tackling in rugby.
[DPF: Actually it was not my taste. I have found that allowing extremely abusive language just leads to the debate changing from the issue at hand to flaming each other. It is not to do with my taste, but trying to keep the threads useful]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:05 am
I don’t think you can take action on thumb scores. They are used for different purposes. I sometimes post trying to gauge what people think, and expect a few down thumbs. It doesn’t necessarily make it a negative or bad post.
Karma seems a strange term to use for the thumbs, but I think some see them as earning brownie points amongst their fan club. Sort of like gang prospects trying to get approval.
I’d like to see a third option. Something like a frown, so you can disapprove of the post, separate agreeing or disagreeing – I often disagree with a point but think it is a reasonable post.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:05 am
@ MNIJ 8.50am – Flippin’ heck – the world must be about to end! I agree with your second paragraph
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:07 am
“..Of course, I am thinking of one commenter in particular who I do not think adds ANYTHING positive to this discussion, but isn’t that just what we are setting out to achieve?..”
and who is that..?..petal..?
..not that one you love to hate..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:08 am
I’ll say it again, that’s akin to ban tackling in rugby.
Vote:No, it’s like eye gouging in rugby.
July 31st, 2009 at 9:09 am
round of applause for manolo..!
..he managed to get through a comment..
..without saying i am a ‘p’-cook..!
..well done..!..that troll..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:11 am
Did I miss something?
Did someone mention profriteroles?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:18 am
philu, with respect to your first comment – you alone have already contributed to about 50% of the abuse on this thread
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:23 am
And attracted the rest of it to himself.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:30 am
DPF I think from reading some of the left blogs that made comment about your moderation experiment that there is some truth to what Redbaiter was claiming about them trying to silence kiwiblog. I understand you need to be pretty careful about what you allow to cover your own butt, but really the feeling I got from places like the standard and kiwipolitico is that they’re actually pissed off with your open debate and the fact that kiwiblog is still number 1 (and of course while they might deny the two are related I wouldn’t).
I think they’re afraid of letting everybody have a say, and the fact that they can’t win an argument here through bullying (per the standard) or moderate dissenting views.
[DPF: Certain left blogs will whine about people having free speech here regardless of what I do. My focus is more on havign threads remain relevant to their topic than not allowing people to express their views]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:37 am
My suggestion:
Set up an ignore function.
[DPF: I tried to do a plugin that lets you ignore anyone with a karma score below x. But it was too memory intensive. A simple ignore plugin though I will have a search about for. If anyone knows of one for WordPress let me know. I know I would use it for a few people]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:41 am
Yes yes, an ignore function!
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:43 am
Agreed.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:45 am
starr..abuse..?..where..?
..the nearest i got was to note it is kinda funny bok complaining about someone being nasty..
..and that manolo managed to get thru a thread..without claiming i am a ‘p’-cook..
..that’s a very low abuse-threshold you are running there..eh..?
..(are you still hurting/smarting at me laughing at yr ancient/corny ‘jokes’..?..over on general thread..?)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:46 am
If I could ignore Philu life would be grand, and if I could choose when I wanted to read RB that would be nice to.
Found it fine, but not exactly your core audience am I.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:08 am
“..If I could ignore Philu life would be grand..”
didn’t realise i effected you so much..darling..
..have you tried just .. ‘ignoring’..?
..c’mon..!
..give it a go..!
..try for that sweet sweet ‘life would be grand..”
..eh..?
..don’t let me get in the way of yr ‘dreams’..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:11 am
IMHO, the whole moderation experiment was something that should not have happened.
It is pandering to leftists. Worse, it is falling for their ruse.
Leftists/ Labour are extremely irritated by Kiwiblog’s influence on the political debate in NZ. They have tried to discredit it and failed. They have tried to counter that influence with blogs of their own, but they failed again. The blogs they set up (Kiwipolitico, Red Alert etc) are all just left wing echo chambers run by sneering elitists.
They bring nothing new to the debate, and of course socialists never will. Heavily moderated by the same old same old left wing drones the sites just do not work as blogs should work. Unless you buy into their socialist worldview, you don’t exist, and you cannot comment. There’s no fire. They’re damp and flaccid.
So as a counter to Kiwiblog, the left wing “blogs” have failed miserably. Unable to compete fairly with Kiwiblog, they needed another strategy.
First they sent legions of leftist drones here to suffocate the comments section. They sent other drones who wrote deliberately provocative comments. Some of these drones even pose as having right wing views on some issues and purposefully make comments designed to provoke complaint.
While this was going on, they launched a public relations campaign where academics, left wing media sycophants and other self appointed commissars of “good taste” started a muttering campaign and made public comments that caused Mr. Farrar, who is after all only human, to feel shame about his blog.
Mr. Farrar’s “experiment” no doubt pleased the leftists no end. And during it, they did what they could to influence the outcome by driving up the hit count with numerous fake visits intended to convince Mr. Farrar his moderation experiment should be continued. (I think this may have been countered by the RW staying away)
Kiwiblog should continue as before, but Mr. Farrar should take steps to weed out the leftists sent here to purposefully destroy Kiwiblog. MNIJ is one. There are others. Mr Farrar can do it through the use of his demerits system, which is probably about the most useful system in the blogosphere and one he deserves some credit for. Compares so well to arbitrary post deletion by Castro like posturing leftist thugs who attempt to substantiate their censorship with lies and false allegations.
Socialism is all about control, and especially control of the culture. The left hate Kiwiblog intensely because it is one of NZ’s most effective counters to their attempts to control the culture. I hope Mr. Farrar wakes up to how he is being manipulated, and does not give any further oxygen to the totalitarian scum who plot to neutralize this site.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:15 am
I repeat: an ignore function.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:21 am
Hey, will you guys who complain about Philip Ure wake up.
Ure is primarily motivated by narcissism. Its a mental disease he suffers from.
Every time you write a response, or refer to him in anyway, you are feeding that narcissism. Encouraging him to write more.
The most effective way to counter Phil Ure’s presence here is to completely ignore everything he writes.
Without the oxygen of attention he will wither and die.
Shut the fuck up about Phil Ure. He’ll disappear if you do that.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:23 am
I have had to build an ignore function in – whenever I see a random collection of punctuation and words I skip to the next post. Makes it faster and more efficient.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:26 am
One thing i do agree with Philu on,is several commentators have commentated in the past about his son.Like most of you i do not like Philu’s politics/views ,but to bring his son into the debate is unwarranted and personally i think,below the belt.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:27 am
“I repeat: an ignore function.”
Why??
Are you uncontrollably compelled to read posts you don’t want to read?
if so, maybe you should see a shrink.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:30 am
Fair comment sbk – although phil does use his status as a parent to justify his refusal/inability to get a job, so there’s an element of quid pro quo
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:31 am
How about instead of a thumbs up/thumbs down, you have thumb left/thumb right buttons, as that seems to be how the majority of people around here gauges everyone else.
As for banning based on karma, as Cerium says, people use it for different reasons. Want to stifle dissent? Go ahead.
An Ignore button would be excellent though.
As a final note, DPF can do as much technologically and from a policy viewpoint to address the problems, but it comes down to whether we all really need to be such pricks to each other, doesn’t it?
Yeah I know, bad karma incoming. CGAF.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:34 am
““I repeat: an ignore function.”
Why??
Are you uncontrollably compelled to read posts you don’t want to read?
if so, maybe you should see a shrink.”
Mouse wheels wear out to fast, clicking once just seems more efficient
“Mr. Farrar should take steps to weed out the leftists sent here to purposefully destroy Kiwiblog. MNIJ is one. ”
So you support censorship, but only when its of the left.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:35 am
They just get in the way. Not having to scroll past Philu’s atrocious experiments in unreadability would be helpful. Yes, I can scroll past, and then also scroll past all the people encouraging him by arguing with him, but it’s a hassle to pick out the interesting posts from the “..eh?..” and the “Philu, get a fucking job” all the time.
Also, when someone complains about someone else, the response is simple: “Just put the person on ignore.”
Reduces the need for moderation, because people can effectively ban people they don’t like from their experience of the blog.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:36 am
“Shut the fuck up about Phil Ure. He’ll disappear if you do that.”
Tried that with you, but you’re still here.
(object lesson: funny-ish, but negative. let’s observe results)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:39 am
Ok, here’s an experiment.
A poll: Who wants philu banned pemanently?
Thumbs Down for No
Thumbs Up for Yes
(is this non-leftish enough for some of you?)
Vote:(please note I can not vote!
July 31st, 2009 at 10:41 am
can i vote..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:44 am
of course! we couldn’t have a unanimous result!
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:50 am
“are you still hurting/smarting at me laughing at yr ancient/corny ‘jokes’..?..over on general thread”
laughing at jokes? who would have thought….
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:52 am
“A poll: Who wants philu banned pemanently?”
That’s right. Give him oxygen you dumbfuck.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:52 am
Red, has it ever occurred to you that you try to do exactly what you accuse the “conspiracy of the left” of trying to do.
You seem to want Kiwiblog to be an uncontested pulpit for what you believe.
Of course I may be wrong – when scrolling past all the dots in Phil’s posts they might be interpreted by the brain as binary instructions to shut down the right hemisphere. Or should that be the left, doesn’t the left control the right and the right control the left?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:57 am
“That’s right. Give him oxygen you dumbfuck.”
It’s not about oxygen for Phil. It’s about DPF growing a set and taking care of the bleeding obvious. Someone had to just ask the question.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:59 am
sbk, phule uses the excuse that he is looking after his son to justify his laziness. Meaning by implication (and it has been said explicity by him as well) that anyone who does work is a bad parent.
He takes our money, doesnt say thank you, and then spits on the very system that enables his laziness, all using the excuse that he is trying to be a good parent.
It is his only justification for bludging off the rest of us, and he hopes that because being a good parent is something we all agree should be aspired to that we will give him a free pass.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:02 am
I reckon at any one time there’s only about two or three trolls responisble for the vast majority of nonsense posts – currently MyNameIsJack and Mickey Savage, ban those two each time they reappear under new names ( what happened to Sonic, is he still around ?) and the signal-to-noise ratio would be improved massively. Phool I suspect is not a troll but is genuinely as stupid as he appears – what sane person would devote years of their life typing “..eh?” in 4917 posts when they know that everyone just scrolls down as soon as they see the retarded layout.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:03 am
Mr. Farrar, can you please ban all these miserable little wankers who cannot write about anything but Phil Ure?
FFS…!!!
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:10 am
You cannot “ban” people for the completely subjective and arbitrary reason that they are “trolls”.
People who write and think this way are merely acting in a mirror image of the left wing sites they don’t like.
The word “troll” is constantly abused. To the point where it is totally ineffective as a criticism.
MS and MNIJ are not “trolls” per se. They are here to deliberately discredit Kiwiblog, but they should be dealt with no different to any other writer here. The demerits system, if Mr. Farrar applied it, would get rid of these losers.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am
stand well back..!..red’s gonna blow..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:18 am
“You cannot “ban” people for the completely subjective and arbitrary reason that they are “trolls”.”
Don’t you agree that this blog operates under the rules imposed by its owner/operator? You may choose to do differently on your own blog, but I do not see any law that removes the choice DPF has to allow anyone access at all.
He could make it a members-only blog tomorrow and hand-pick 200 people.
So yes, subjective and arbitrary reasons are totally in play.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:23 am
Would be interesting to work out, of the current list of demerits, how many of those people with high scores would be considered ‘drones of the left’, and therefore whether using the demerits system would actually have the effect you desire, Red. I honestly wouldn’t know the answer, but does the evidence stack up?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:26 am
Well I am in two minds over the moderation experiment
On one hand, moderation tries to makes this place more sane ,less rabid and less abusive aka public address
sorta more National radio then talk back Radio .. which is to be admired as I think the right wing blogosphere needs such a place
And on the other side his place that is widely seen by most moderates , as a vile and unsavoury place and is thus a great advert against righting politics and the attendant nutjobs that it attracts eg Mr Garrett .
So when one gets tired of the fight against” the right “and lacks the motivation to get out there and deliver leaflets (or something as exciting)
here is a bloody good place to come to rekindle that will to carry on. It perfectly illustrates what we(the left) are fighting against
Let the abuse begin…
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:39 am
“Well I am in two minds over the moderation experiment”
Well that’s funny, because on your writing here, there’s never been any evidence that you possess even one.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:46 am
sigh
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:48 am
@ Redbaiter ROTFLOL
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:59 am
DPF,
Maybe what you’ve got here is not so much a blog as a message forum in which you are the only thread-starter. Perhaps trying to implement changes to the blog is a bit like fitting a square peg in a round hole. Have you considered installing forum software instead of a blog, or attached to the blog?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Ryan. Its working for fuck’s sake. You want to see something different, start your own damn blog.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Red,
DPF trialed changes and asked for feedback. I gave him some.
I agree that Kiwiblog works okay, though I still think being able to ignore some people would be helpful, and a good non-authoritarian alternative to constant moderation.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
“Well that’s funny, because on your writing here, there’s never been any evidence that you possess even one.”
Russell: I think that sentence illustrates why moderation is so important.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pm
“And on the other side his place that is widely seen by most moderates , as a vile and unsavoury place and is thus a great advert against righting politics and the attendant nutjobs that it attracts eg Mr Garrett .”
Kapital: as long as you remember that not all supporters of economic rationalism are “angry white men” just as all socialists are not”sandal wearing hippies”.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm
“and a good non-authoritarian alternative to constant moderation.”
Ryan: the best approach to moderation is to ban the worst offenders (e.g. Mr Fletcher): it tends to keep everyone else in check with little further intervention.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:15 pm
What you think Mr Spondre, hardly matters, as you are marked for all time as the treacherous swine who, while trusted as a site owner, broke that trust by deliberately posting the IP addresses of people commenting there. No going back from crossing that line. Not ever. As long as you exist, you’ll never amount to anything more than dogshit on the information highway.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:19 pm
“As long as you exist, you’ll never amount to anything more than dogshit on the information highway.”
Fantastic, another excellent illustration Russell of why a strong moderation policy is essential. Surely Mr Fletcher you know that IP addresses can be spoofed so that for example: a person from Tauranga could look like they were sitting in Australia ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:29 pm
It seemed that while the moderation experiment was in effect, my thumbs up’s or down’s didn’t add to the totals. Unsure if it was related to the moderation experiment or not, but it seems to of fixed itself now.
Anyone else have the same problem?
EDIT: no it seems to still not work, now that I’m logged back in DPF could you look into it please?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Anyone else have the same problem?
Yes. Still broken. Refresh your browser.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:31 pm
“a strong moderation policy is essential.”
Mr. Spondre, you have never ever, not once, managed to underpin that belief with anything but bigotry and weak subjective crap, so uninteresting and unhelpful to the original point that all it proves is the dullness of your own intellect.
Redbaiter was banned from Chris Trotter’s site because Chris Trotter objected to the name. No other reason. On every other occasion you have described posters as trolls or “offenders” or whatever, you have never been able to support those allegations with real evidence.
Your opinions a just opinions, and in your case, made all the more uninteresting by dint of the fact they are the words of an addle brained low IQ dumbfuck who can’t ever string together one logical sequence of thoughts. Every post you make is a confused litany of bluster and irrationality that often defeats some point you made a few posts before.
You post endless drivel Mr. Spondre. Especially when you’re telling Mr. Farrar how to run his site.
Just run your own site, the way you want, and be grateful that “dangerous” posters like myself choose never to visit such empty infantile mindless places. You stick with your own low IQ audience, and shut the fuck up about what other site owners should do.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Red, you’re not dangerous. You’re hilarious. And kind of embarrassing.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/gordon-mclauchlan/news/article.cfm?a_id=4&objectid=3544039
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:42 pm
red..that’s you..!
..you are russell fletcher..
..from tauranga..no less..
(that haven of white lower midlle class flight..eh..?..)
..and hey..!..that piece is from 2004..
..but yr polemical has changed not abit..
..eh..?
whoar..!
…can i call you russ..?
..and..i reckon hubris is spondre..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Having read and been rather disheartened by the comments on this thread I’ll make a comment.
I quite enjoy Kiwiblog and while my political leaning is far to the right of Redbaiter I often read, and sometimes even agree with, some of the left-orientated posts.
I did like the experiment, kept things closer to the thread and stopped (or seemed to) whole piles of abuse being sent back and forth which is simply boring for those of us not inclined to join in.
With one exception – the exception being one who pollutes this blog with unintelligible rubbish that makes my finger sore scrolling past it – I’d hate to see people banned just for their views nor would I want to see posts deleted simply because others don’t like what they say (the negative thumb thingy).
Mr Farrar, if you start banning people just for stating their views start with me – I’ll go quietly.
I won’t want to stay.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:47 pm
.and..i reckon hubris is spondre..
You can reckon what you want. Unless I have a good twin that I don’t know about, I am not he and he is not me.
Perhaps your confusion is due to the fact that we both punctuate appropriately?
And I’m sure he doesn
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Gosh, that’s a good article. How sad that Mr. McLauchlan doesn’t write for the Herald anymore. Why would that be I wonder?? Could it have anything to do with his rabid addiction to left wing political doctrine and his inability to seperate political advocacy from the profession of journalism?
Why was Mr. McLauchlan dropped??
Could it have been that even in a contemptible left wing rag like the NZ Herald, Mr. Mclauchlan’s rabid leftism was an embarrasment??
I believe that because of his uncompromising approach, the Herald editors thought he might be threatening to blow their cover. The Herald likes to pretend to be mainstream, and they couldn’t do it while promoting the writing of such an outspoken leftist.
Nowadays they continue the deception of objectivity by including in their opinions section some writers perceived as “right wing”, but in reality these are often the most wet weak lamers. The Herald only uses them as a cover to allow them to promote the garbage of extreme leftists like Matt McCarten.
If the Herald was seriously interested in diverse political opinions we would see Mark Steyn or Ann Coulter or their like.
No way. The NZ Herald wants to ensure the political debate in NZ is confined to the limits its considers most useful to promotion of the Progressive agenda its editors and staff subscribe to.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“Russell: I think that sentence illustrates why moderation is so important.”
Go away, establish your own blog and stop telling DPF what to do.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:50 pm
…’t not finish his sentences
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 12:55 pm
I think you are very fair DPF, with the current system.
Vote:Perhaps an occasional warning to get back on topic could keep some threads more focused.
July 31st, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Redbaiter: and shut the fuck up about what other site owners should do.
Hmmm, who else tries to tell site owners what they should do?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I think it worked a bit in a behaviour change sense – I think for a while many people tried to moderate some of the name calling and off topic stuff. But that wore off reasonably quickly.
In a benefit for time spent sense, I saw a number of threads that still went off track. As you’ve noted, you need to be there when the thread goes off track to nip it in the bud – if you’re not there, it still goes off track.
Arguably, once you had a few weeks of watching every thread like an eagle, people would get used to it and start to stay on topic. I liked some of the threads this week that did that, and it was worth my time to read them and add to them. But I very much doubt you can afford that amount of time, and I doubt you want to go with the team of moderators approach again.
All that leaves you with is to tighten up on demerits a bit more, and those who consistently derail or abuse will end up banned. That makes the threads much more pleasant for the rest of us. The usual suspects will howl about free speech and how you’re giving in to the left, to the evil UN, to political correctness, to commercial pressure, to the weak willed people who don’t have time to scroll over the drivel of others, or to our insect overlords. The thing is, they’re the people you don’t care about, so I’m not sure why you’d be interested in their whinging.
The advantage of this approach is that you don’t have to be there every minute of the day, you just gradually get rid of the people who are abusing your hospitality. People eventually learn some standards, or they go away. Either is fine with me. There is a lot of truth in the old adage that you wouldn’t come to visit someone and then piss on their carpet. Filling up your blog with drivel, abuse, off topic rants and all manner of idiocy is directly comparable, and I don’t see why you’d worry about upsetting people who behave like that. And, of course, once you replace the carpet with some that hasn’t been pissed on 50 times already, some of the people who currently behave badly will notice that you’ve got new carpet, and they’ll decide not to piss on it. They’ll probably go piss on Whale’s carpet instead, but since he seems to like that it’s all fine.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:11 pm
red..are you russ..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Well, my observation is that threads go south after two people start attacking each other – though this thread seems to have recovered from that.
One idea to throw into the mix would be to have only say, 3 comments allowed from anyone on any given thread – one to make comments on the post, and two more to answer people who respond to that (and the third can be used to point to their own blog for further discussion!)
Not a perfect idea, but just throwing it out there.
Oh, and why on earth do people find it so hard to ignore Phil U? Reading his screed is more effort than it’s worth.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:14 pm
And, of course, once you replace the carpet with some that hasn’t been pissed on 50 times already, some of the people who currently behave badly will notice that you’ve got new carpet, and they’ll decide not to piss on it.
Replace it with a high voltage carpet and it’ll only happen once.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:27 pm
The way you moderate the site works well, a light handed approach with the ban stick is what makes this such a popular place to debate an issue, increased moderation might have a short term effect but i think it will just end up creating a sausage machine.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:43 pm
karma buttons still not working
Agree with Banana llama, the way it is is pretty cool. I have days when I just read and don’t bother posting, especially if philu is having a busy day. Sometimes the BS gets a bit much but then I just leave and come back tomorrow…
I don’t think there is a perfect formula. My only opinion is , the more you tinker, the more you will have to continue to tinker and before long the blog will be unrecognisable, which would be sad.
When I hear of people wanting to implement rules, I always remember (I’m paraphrasing ) that the 10 Commandments have say, 100 words. The law in California for growing oranges has 100,000 words. Tinkering usually ends up turning things to shit.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 1:45 pm
redbaiter gives me far more credit than i deserve “Kiwiblog should continue as before, but Mr. Farrar should take steps to weed out the leftists sent here to purposefully destroy Kiwiblog. MNIJ is one”
I have been sent by no one. I am here of my own free will. I do not hang out in the “leftist blogs” as there’s no point only talking to people with the same basic philosophy. I have no desire to “destroy kiwiblog”, let alone that I lack the power to do so. I enjoy being here, kicking over the odd ant’s nest…
The trouble with people like redbaiter is that they equate oppression with difference of opinion, a general trait of far right extremists. He seems to suffer the same delusions as his grande dame Sarah “No Ticker” Palin; thinks it fine to attack others, runs away whining when the attack is returned in kind.
It is interesting to note that the comments on this thread calling for this one or that one to be banned are all from the hard right.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 2:00 pm
CraigM (517) Vote: 2 0 Says:
July 31st, 2009 at 1:43 pm
karma buttons still not working
They are, just do a screen refresh
When I hear of people wanting to implement rules, I always remember (I’m paraphrasing ) that the 10 Commandments have say, 100 words. The law in California for growing oranges has 100,000 words. Tinkering usually ends up turning things to shit.
please provide a citation for this Californian law. I think you may be mistaking it for the 26,911 word US government regulations for growing cabbages. or not.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
“I have been sent by no one. I am here of my own free will. I do not hang out in the “leftist blogs” as there’s no point only talking to people with the same basic philosophy. I have no desire to “destroy kiwiblog”, let alone that I lack the power to do so. I enjoy being here, kicking over the odd ant’s nest…”
ha -same – but apparently we are part of the conspriracy.
On an odd unrelated topic I dont think I can Khama people anymore, ha.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:08 pm
ha -same – but apparently we are part of the conspriracy.
Hah! That’s precisely typical of what the vile and execrable members of the Left Wing Conspiracy would say!
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Just to buck the trend, I thought it was funny.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Just to buck the trend, I thought it was funny.
Funny ‘ha ha’ or funny ‘peculiar’?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:33 pm
DPF: And this is a perfect example of why I don’t want to start moderating – the unreasonable expectation. I deleted several comments from that thread but that comment was made at 10.30 pm at night and Ferdinand is complaining about it at 8 am the next morning. People expect a 24×7 service for free which is nuts.
Thats crap… You removed all my comments about Garrett being a pisshead and Act dealing away its list seats posted just afterwards.
Is there one standard for shit thrown at left wingers and another for shit thrown at right wingers.
[DPF: And 20 demerits for calling me a liar. I don't recall what time I made other deletions but I do not read every thread all the time. Again you prove my point about the unreasonable expectations that because I may have read one thread at 10.30 at night I should have read every thread at the same time.
And as it happens I deleted way way way more comments from right wingers over the last four days]
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:42 pm
haha redbaiter, honestly, you must gain an ulcer everyday. you make me laugh and cringe at the same time. Do you re-read your comments????
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
“Funny ‘ha ha’ or funny ‘peculiar’?”
….[Well that’s funny, because on your writing here, there’s never been any evidence that you possess even one.]
it was without a doubt the gem slapdown of the week
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
[DPF: And 20 demerits for calling me a liar. I don't recall what time I made other deletions but I do not read every thread all the time. Again you prove my point about the unreasonable expectations that because I may have read one thread at 10.30 at night I should have read every thread at the same time.]
It was on the same thread, 3 posts below the one about Carter and his boyfriend. If the shoe fits…
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:20 pm
“..and..i reckon hubris is spondre..”
@PhilU …alas no I am not “hubris” , nor am I “Gordon McLauchlan” or “Russell Fletcher”:
“Strange political obsessives like Russell Fletcher are present in small numbers throughout the country, but they do seem to be disproportionately represented in Tauranga.” http://bit.ly/2MjRz
I think Gordon is being a little mean about Tauranga, sure it spawned Winston but it has a lovely coastline.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:24 pm
@PhilU …alas no I am not “hubris”
..but will he believe that we are not each other/the same/one?..
..perhaps we are him also..
..eh?..
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:25 pm
@ernesto: are all lefty trolls as stupid as you are? You call DPF a liar and he gives you demerits. So you call him a liar again? What exactly are you expecting to happen now? FFS, at least people like PhilU and RedBaiter are capable of tiptoeing along the line, you appear entirely unaware that a line even exists.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:29 pm
“..# philu (4929) 5 46 Says:
July 31st, 2009 at 7:45 am
only that 90% of the abuse comes from the rightwing/the farrites..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
[DPF: Wow Phil just proves himself wrong by starting the very first comment with abuse]
um..!..’Wow” back at you dpf..
..that is ‘abuse’..?
..i thought it was more a statistical fact..
..one that you yourself confirmed..
“..And as it happens I deleted way way way more comments from right wingers over the last four days]..”
(just what is the statistical definition/equivalent of ‘way way’..?
..is it anywhere near that ‘abusive’ 90% figure i cited..?
meh..!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:29 pm
“red..are you russ..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)”
Russell I believe that Phil is still waiting for your answer. Would you prefer that he called you Mr Fletcher ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Chill out, Ure, you weren’t moderated for your lunacy.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:44 pm
and isn’t it hilarious..how some righties..(disgusted/ashamed (?) by what their compatriots say..?..perchance..?
..are now claiming the high levels of (rightwing-troll) putrescence here..
..is a direct outcome of a plot from those ‘nasty’ lefties..(co-ordinated at the highest levels of leftie-h.q..)
..to come here and incite what are really very very ‘nice’ righties..into saying these”tewwible’/'nasty’ things…
..face up to it..
..it’s all their own work..
..by their words..
..know them..
..and i know..!..hard to believe the vileness of some of them..
..but it does fit with the whole nasty/class-riddled/oppressive/exploitive ethos imbuing (what passes for) all rightwing political ‘thought’..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:51 pm
“..alas no I am not “hubris” ..”
then just who are you .. at the moment .. spondre..?
..how many troll-aliases are you currently using/running..?
(in attempts to disrupt others’ sites..and promote your own..?..)
thus confirming your reputation as a ‘class-act’..
..eh..?
(and i reckon you are way part responsible for the/any slurring/staining of the rightwing pond..eh..?
..a list of your previous troll names wd b handy..eh.?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Phil, are you perchance Mr Fletcher?
Just thinking about that fevered imagination of yours.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:55 pm
whole nasty/class-riddled/oppressive/exploitive ethos imbuing (what passes for) all leftwing political ‘thought’..
FTFY.
You know, you and Naomi Klein are just made for each other.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:57 pm
“..it was without a doubt the gem slapdown of the week..”
patrick does like the old ones/the classics..eh..?
he is a virtual walking encyclopedia of them..
..(are you very ‘old’..?..starr..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 5:59 pm
@PhilU..fair enough question Phil. My real name is “Bryan Spondre”
I am the Community Manager over at http://www.interest.co.nz , http://www.agridata.co.nz and http://www.interestratenews.com.au (and of course the now dead policy.net.nz/blog where I banned you and redbaiter).
My personal blog is http://www.linkwhore.co.nz and my twitter address is http://www.twitter.com/bryanspondre
I have gone under several aliases; Elvis Christ, MAWGXXXIV, Link Whore & Redbaiterbaiter.
Any more questions Phil ? Feel free to Google me if you wish. My life is an open book.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:00 pm
nah..!..hubris..do keep up..!
spondre has ‘outed’ redbaiter as being a russell fletcher ..
..from taurange..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:04 pm
“The Herald only uses them as a cover to allow them to promote the garbage of extreme leftists like Matt McCarten.”
Come on now Russell, you are forgetting your history. It is barely 18 months ago that Helen Clark was raging against the NZ Herald for it’s “partisan” opposition to the Electoral Finance Bill. Perhaps you can be excused as it may not have been covered in the Bay of Plenty Times.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:04 pm
You might not realise you’re him.
I saw it in a film once. I think.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:07 pm
“You might not realise you’re him.” @hubris – stop please – I am about to laugh myself off my chair.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:07 pm
what other ‘aliases’..have you used/are currently using..
give us a full list..if you are being so ‘open book’..
and more importantly..why do you do that..?
..if not to be a definition/benchmark of a ‘troll’..
..i can understand high public profile people using aliases..
..there is no excuse/need for a nonentity such as yourself..
..save for trolling..
..eh..?
..and yet..you ‘ban’ people..for not abusive trolling..
..but for having the cheek to dare question the pontifications from yr ‘stable’..?
..you really are a benchmark for all that is wrong with the alias-system..eh..?
..and you boast of your abuse of others’ websites..using these troll aliases..
..i’ve said it before..
..you really are a ‘case’..aren’t you spondre..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:11 pm
“..(are you very ‘old’..?..starr..?..)”
from Boks description of you (old man with a gaunt and scabby face walking on a gammy leg) i’m just a boy by comparison
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:12 pm
“..Feel free to Google me if you wish..”
why the fuck would i want to do that..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:13 pm
.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:14 pm
were you one of those who is ‘young-old’..?
..y’know..!..
..ready for dotage by about 35..?
(‘it’s all over..!’..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:19 pm
philu (4935) 1 1 Says:
July 31st, 2009 at 6:00 pm
nah..!..hubris..do keep up..!
spondre has ‘outed’ redbaiter as being a russell fletcher ..
Hang on, if I am Brian Spondre, I should have known that, shouldn’t I?
Perhaps I don’t know he is me and I am him. As per the film I saw. The one with the bees eating the man’s eyes.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:23 pm
“Redbaiter was banned from Chris Trotter’s site because Chris Trotter objected to the name.”
Russell, from memory you were banned because we considered your alias “redbaiter” fitted the definition of flaming.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:24 pm
@hubris … if you were me you would know it is spelt “Bryan”.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:34 pm
@hubris … if you were me you would know it is spelt “Bryan”.
But aaaaaaah, that’s just the sort of trick I would pull If I was me.
And you were me.
Your mind playing tricks on me, as it werre.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:35 pm
oh..!..right..!..they don’t even have to troll..
just have an’offensive’name..
..f.f.s..!
..are you for fucken real..?
..(and..(ha ha..)!..where exactly does ‘elvis christ’ fit..?..
in your list of ‘offensive commenter-names..?.
you/trotter banned redbaiter..’cos he calls himself ‘redbaiter’.?
could you be more ‘precious’..?
..more of a ‘joke’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:37 pm
“spondre has ‘outed’ redbaiter as being a russell fletcher”
Spondre (who has apparently clawed his way up the social scale from “blog producer” to “Community Manager” wow!) deserves no credit for repeating a rumour that is years old and bears no more weight than any other such rumour. I do not respond to allegations concerning my identity. The ideas are what is important.
Its why the contemptible and cowardly knuckle dragger Spondre uses so many aliases, it makes up for his complete lack of ideas. If he hasn’t read it somewhere said by someone else, he’s got nothing to say. Chris Trotter’s lickspittle yellow backed yes man and servant.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I do not respond to allegations concerning my identity.
Kind of like The Stig of Tauranga, then.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:43 pm
“..I do not respond to allegations concerning my identity…”
so you are russ fletcher then..!
remember me..?..from years ago..?
yes..!..i am that ‘phil’..!
..(isn’t it a small world..eh..?
..all these years later..
..and we meet again on kiwiblog…eh..?
..you were a bit stuffy/conservative/reactionary way back then..
..but you have really cranked it up..with age..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 6:55 pm
“.but you have really cranked it up..with age..eh..?”
Damn boy, look who’s talkin.
Vote:I read a post by you in the ancient archives and you were actually understandable back then.
July 31st, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Bryan,
Have you ever seen yourself and Hubris in the same room at the same time?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Also, who gives a shit what Redbaiter’s real name is? What is achieved? Redbaiter is actually someone who says very similar things to Redbaiter, except with a surname? Not much of a revelation. Until someone exposes Redbaiter for being Sue Bradford or Nicky Hager, real names aren’t terribly exciting.
This thread exposes the real problem with both moderation and an ignore function: there’d be very little left to read.
In answer to your question, DPF, I did a little looking around and I couldn’t find an ignore function for comments as a plug-in for WordPress. More’s the pity. Perhaps collapsible comments would be another avenue to consider.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:19 pm
what exactly is ‘the problem’..there..ryan..?
what are you trying to ‘solve’..?
as admitted by dpf…the rightwing trolls are the ones using the (slanderous) bile/abuse..as their ‘given right’..
..all dpf has to do is demerit a few of them..
..and that would stop..
..and political arguments could surface..
..instead of..the usual crap..
..it’s like a fucken groundhog day..
(oops..!..here’s manolo..!..i’ll betcha he says ‘phil is a ‘p’-cook..!’..)
..y;know..!
i repeat..where is the problem..that you are searching for complex solutions to..
..a coupla ‘p’-cook-demerits for manolo..
..would send him whimpering to his corner..
..problem solved.
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:23 pm
“..walking on a gammy leg..’..
wot..?
..like dustin hoffman in the graduate..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Ryan Sproull (2290) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
What is achieved?
Comedy.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:31 pm
There’s no huge problem, Phil. Kiwiblog’s not broken.
One small problem for me (or you) is that your surely intentional style of posting is cumbersome to read, and I’m almost certain I’ve seen you post comments with perfectly legible and well-formed English. If you made the effort to use paragraphs, a capital letter here and there, your content wouldn’t be so often ignored or tarred with the mad-rambling brush.
DPF demeriting is not an efficient answer to the problem of abuse. It’s still an answer – an inefficient answer – but I would prefer everyone having the power to effectively “ban” whomever they like by ignoring them. Then, when Manolo says you cook meth, you can respond and/or ignore him. When someone abuses me, I can respond and/or ignore them. When someone’s style of posting causes a series of back and forths about which I do not care, between people to whom I can’t be bothered listening, I can ignore all of them too.
Then, for me, reading Kiwiblog would become less a matter of prospecting for the occasional gem and more a forum for dialogue with people with whom I choose to engage. I don’t care that most – if not all – of the people here disagree with me about almost everything. I enjoy that. I like having my ideas challenged and I like having the opportunity to do the same for others.
In short, I don’t want the noise to stop and I don’t want DPF or anyone else to be working around the clock to ban it from Kiwiblog. I just want to be able to mute it for myself and let other people muck around in it while I talk to the grown-ups – all of whom disagree with me, but are respectful about it.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Anyway, I’m leaving work now. Have a good and safe weekend, all.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:51 pm
“Kind of like The Stig of Tauranga, then.” Yeah sort of hubris. Only the Stig is good at what he does
“I do not respond to allegations concerning my identity. The ideas are what is important.” Agree with that Russell,but it would be nice if you had some.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Kiwiblog is fine the way it is. I applaud it for being so robust, open, and free, even if this means sometimes putting up with rubbish such as Philu’s frothing.
I agree with Redbaiter that because of its roaring success and invigorating freedom, DPF’s Kiwiblog has been under attack by jealous leftists, especially boofheads such as journalism school lecturers sour that their sinecures are in danger; such as media commentators with audiences small enough to be counted on four hands; such as MSM pundits scared for their pay source; such as lawyers who resent the non-litigious freedom of the internet; and such as broadcasting twits who hate being relegated to yesterday’s medium; such as leftist bloggers whose political obsolescence stands out starkly in the creative, innovative milieu of The Net.
Stay staunch DPF. Full ahead and damn the slow, red torpedoes.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 7:59 pm
“Also, who gives a shit what Redbaiter’s real name is? What is achieved?”
Well Ryan it is good to know that Redbaiter is Russell Fletcher of Tauranga and not Nicky Hager or Trevor Mallard or Sue Bradford or Metirei Turei or Jenny Michie or Clinton Smith or Rob Egan. If someone is not prepared to be honest about who they are then how can we judge their motivation ?
Russell Fletcher himself has made the comment further up this thread that he believes there is a conspiracy by left wing interests to get right wing points of view suppressed on Kiwiblog. Perhaps he is right or perhaps he is just a conspiracy theorist: we cannot judge without knowing the identities of those who post.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:06 pm
“DPF’s Kiwiblog has been under attack by jealous leftists,” surely if you and Russell Fletcher aka Redbaiter were correct on this point then David could simply ban or block them ?
Really I think you chaps need to get out more. Helen Clark & Michael Cullen are gone. New Zealand is not a fascist state ruled by jack-booted feminists, it is is safe for you take the tin foil hat off.
Then again “Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they are NOT out to get you”.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:07 pm
“Have you ever seen yourself and Hubris in the same room at the same time?”
I can say a clear NO to that.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Re Bryan Spondre’s 7.59 post…
You can generally tell posters’ politics from their posts. Conspiracies are something else. If a swag of posters jump on a bandwagon set rolling by a couple of posters that may appear a conspiracy to some, but it may well be just be a mob reaction like a flock of starlings turning. Does it matter?
Newspapers generally require those who write letters to sign their names, with postal addresses, and sometimes phone numbers. But they clearly don’t check these because sometimes the names are bogus. At least pseudonyms are usually clearly anonymous.
I think DPF’s doing a good job and has the right formula. Kiwiblog’s success is evidence of this.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Bitch fight!!!! Yeah! Fuck the moderation!!! Yeah!!! I had something important to say…..yeah!!!!! That’s irrelevant, my ego is intact……yeah!!!
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:30 pm
and does anyone remember ‘yes minister’..?
the site that moderated/censored itself out of existance..
..at one stage there..they had the potential to challenge kiwiblog for the top of the rightwing-heap..
..and then they unleashed the moderators/censors..
..the site turned into a rightwing echo chamber..
..everyone yawned..
..and turned away..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Phool,
Vote:Don’t forget to pick out all of todays shiny bits for your American contacts.
Just a reminder in case you forgot
July 31st, 2009 at 8:39 pm
The leftists really want moderators to put the bridle on Kiwiblog all right. Kaya’s 8.26 whine supports the view that moderation of Kiwiblog is a call by desperate leftists.
Socialists love control almost as much as they love committees and inquiries and plans (anyone remember the five-year and ten-year plans as the Soviet Union went down the gurgler?).
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Haven’t had a lot of time to frequent Kiwiblog much this week, but personally, I think a more aggressive approach for the demerit system could be considered as an alternative. For instance, more frequent rain-of-terror on people who stray off topic outside general debate might help keep things on track.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:41 pm
sheesh steve..!..i don’t come here for ‘shiny bits’..
..eh..?
..have you ever seen any here..?
..see what i mean..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Cerium suggests:
Cerium, I have to thank you for making my day with that comment, or rather the mental images it conjured up. I can see Redbaiter as Bill from “Gangs of New York”: “I don’t give a ten-penny fuck about your moral conundrum, you meat-headed shit-sack”.
Philu, however, I imagine more in the role of Man Stoner, from the Cheech & Chong movies: “Yeah, my dog ate my stash, man. I had it on the table and the little motherfucker ate it, man. Then I had to follow him around with a little baggie for three days, man, before I got it back.”
And DPF, well he brings to mind Kristin Scott Thomas, of all people: “At school, I always wanted to belong to a gang, and no one would have me. So I made my own gang, but with everybody else’s leftovers.”
Feel free to add to the meme…
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Brilliant Rex, absolutely brilliant.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 8:55 pm
In my most humble opinion, Ignore functions tend to create a breakdown of community.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Yea and hows your blog going phil?
Vote:Got any comments in 4 years?
July 31st, 2009 at 9:06 pm
“In my most humble opinion, Ignore functions tend to create a breakdown of community.”
And the left wouldn’t want that now would they
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:13 pm
DPF said in a footnote at 9.30: “…My focus is more on havign threads remain relevant to their topic than not allowing people to express their views…”
Does it really matter? Kiwiblog threads are a quick read. If something looks off topic it’s easy to flick past and ignore. If the whole thread veers off-topic, it’s easy to flick on to the next thread, unless the new direction is an interesting read of course.
As one reader, I find the anarchistic free-wheeling, unmoderated nature of Kiwiblog one of its main attractions.
The only drawback I have noted was one astonishing, outrageous, off-topic, unsubstantiated, allegation against a senior politician that stood for a time before someone drew it to DPF’s attention.
Instead of moderating, would it be possible for DPF to have a separate cheap cellphone whose number we posters and readers could text him on in the case of such posts, which are fairly rare. DPF could ask for volunteers and appoint a panel of say 30, if he feared saboteurs would wreck this alarm system with a flood of bogus texts.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Surprise, surprise, Rex, you do have a little culture… what other little secrets are you hiding?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:14 pm
roger douglas as clarke gable:.(c.f…travel expenses)..
.”frankly my dear..i don’t give a damm..!’
simon ‘all the way with bush!”power .. as audie murphy:..’don’t shoot ’till you see the whites of their eyes..!’
john key as michael douglas:..’greed is good!”..
tony ryall:..as ‘hal’ the computor..from 2001 space odyssey..”i can’t let you do that”..
cunnliffe..as the dog from the famous five..’woof!’..
rodney hide as billy bunter..(it’s the yellow jacket..that does it for me..)
phil goff as ‘harry potter:..(vol 53)..the really old years’..
judith collins as ‘dennis’..(from the beano comics)..’i'll crush ya..!’..
paula bennett..as ‘dora the explorer’..(‘is it over there..?’..)
garrett..as any 70′s porn-flick actor..(it’s the mo’..)..’hi..!..i’m the window-washer”..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
bill english..as that giant kokodo lizard from ..’the land that time forgot’..
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Philu from Signs- Mel gibson sitting in his living room with a tinfoil hat, to protect him from aliens, meat, and the evils of capitalism
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:22 pm
“I do not respond to allegations concerning my identity.”
Ummm…you just have, haven’t you Russell ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Ha ha.
Teabag Party in Tauranga anyone.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:26 pm
spondre..i think we are all over redbaiter being some old reactionary from taurange..called russ..
..eh..?
(check the use-by date..eh..?..)
i mean..meh..!
now..had reddy been ‘strewth’ richardson..?..whoar..!
..but..
..y’know..!..(yawn..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:33 pm
“..Yea and hows your blog going phil?
Got any comments in 4 years?..”
bugger all..only about 1300..but it is a ‘newspaper’..eh..?
..not talkback-blog..
and hey..!
..you’d be pleased at technorati having whoar in the top 0.87% of blogs..globally..eh..?
..(that’ll keep me getting up in the morning..for a little bit longer..)
..and..
..thanks for asking..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:40 pm
The poster who uses the pseudonym Bryan Spondre has been rabbiting on about one “Russell Fletcher”.
If it is the person or one one of the persons referred to below on the web “Russell Fletcher” doesn’t sound like a bad bloke at all…
1. The only teacher I ever had was Russell Fletcher. He was a wonderful teacher and the “composite class” (std 4, 5 an 6) was something very special.
2. Russell Fletcher was a fine loose forward for Waikato from 1946 to 1948.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Bryan Spondre might note that if Kiwiblog was moderated his “Russell Fletcher” post would have been eliminated before it led us off-topic.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:46 pm
spondre..
..were you called spongy’..at school..?
(y’know..life as ‘open book’..and all that..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Why should posting on a forum like this involve an obligation to declare personal details – name or otherwise? It doesn’t anywhere else on the internet. Knowing someone’s real name – if they’re not the kind of political player you’re talking about – has no particular impact on their motivation. Arguments should be judged on their own merit anyway, regardless of their source.
Of course we can. You just judge an argument on its own merit. If this conspiracy is secretly blowing us all away with reasoned arguments that stand up to questioning, more power to it.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 9:53 pm
@Jack5: or maybe this Russell Fletcher :
thing wrote:
> Geopelia wrote:
>> Is this the Redbaiter that used to post here some time ago?
>> Geopelia
> I would assume so given the rant…I thought they had finally got him
> committed…guess not.
> regards
> Thing
Redbaiter moved to Queensland.
R
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:29:49 +1200, Me
wrote:
>Geopelia wrote:
>> Is this the Redbaiter that used to post here some time ago?
>> Geopelia
>No
If it’s Russell Fletcher then it is.
Vote:–
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
July 31st, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Link from here: http://groups.google.com/group/nz.general/browse_thread/thread/087a1540f3d9cb68/5e151f0c9039673e?lnk=raot&fwc=1&pli=1
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:01 pm
“with reasoned arguments that stand up to questioning” – true but Russell Fletcher doesn’t use rational argument does he ?
“Knowing someone’s real name – if they’re not the kind of political player you’re talking about – has no particular impact on their motivation. ” – Who had heard of Kees Keezer until he was outed by Cameron Slater as the Labour Party mole who infiltrated Nationals election conference ? Knowing someone name allows to research somebody and discover what may motivate them. It also forces people to take responsibility for what they say. They are unable to hide behind a putative anonymity.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:05 pm
“Bryan Spondre might note that if Kiwiblog was moderated his “Russell Fletcher” post would have been eliminated before it led us off-topic.” – fair enough. Happy to play be the rules.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:08 pm
The Virtual Redbaiter? – Page 2 ” Re: The Virtual Redbaiter?
Adder wrote:
In article 41c7aea3$ in nz.comp on Tue, 21 Dec 2004
18:03:27 +1300, thing says…
Interesting that he covers his tracks so well. I can but assume he has
been in grief with previous ISPs and is now hiding where he comes from.
Probably running out of ISPs who will take him.
yawn…who cares…it is astounding the obssessiveness of some people
They are curious about Redbaiter because he has a lot to say…..yet goes to
great lengths to hide who he really is.
Cowards do stuff like that. Liars do, too.
Red is both. Russell Fletcher must be one serious scumbag.” http://bit.ly/2h83Pc
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Oh geezus philu, Garrett as a 70s porn star.
That’s an image I didn’t need… given I see him in a prison guard’s uniform, the whole thing plays in my head like a Max Mosely epic. The uniforms… the interrogation… the whips…
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:20 pm
FFS Bryan, you are way off topic here. And getting monotonous with this. Why don’t you start up your own blog to do it?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Or perhaps this Russell Fletcher:
True Blue NZ “And so many people, ordinary people, joined in with him. That’s what New Zealand as a country needs. More ordinary people to stand up and yell out “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this bullshit anymore” Do it, it will make you feel so much better. Others will hear you and join in. Cripple the power of the statists and socialists in New Zealand by standing up to their thieving, confronting their lies, their false claims and most of all their bullshit. Click on the links top left. Once you’ve read these articles, you’ll realise the truth that the Emperor has no clothes…..
Editor- Redbaiter” http://bit.ly/NAbPg
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:23 pm
“FFS Bryan, you are way off topic here.”
The topic is moderation. Russell Fletcher aka redbaiter appears to be a person who is in frequent need of moderation. Seems reasonable to explore why that might be so.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Hell, how pitiful that the poor petty little obsessive wack job Spondre has nothing better to do on Friday night than smugly congratulate himself on his perceived monumental “discovery”. Rumours from ages ago that were never substantiated and all based on a newspaper article that has no proven connection to anyone.
That aside, every one of his multiple posts is a sad example of hate, derangement, failure of logic and failure to face up to reality. A truly small minded, stupid and obsessive personality. Never more so when he alleges all kinds of nasty things about anonymous posters when he himself has tried on numerous occasions to post anonymously here on Kiwiblog, and even blatantly denied who he was when sprung.
Everything you say about anonymous posters is true of yourself you pitiful coward, for if you had not been sprung, you’d still be posting here under one of those numerous pseudonyms.
You’re not only an astonishing hypocrite Mr. Spondre, you’re an unbelievably dumb hypocrite too.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Then his arguments can be judged on that.
Doesn’t have any effect on the judgement of their comments on a blog. Motivations don’t matter. A person can produce a fine argument with the most demented of motivations and a person can produce a shitty argument with the most virtuous of motivations.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Bryan, I think it is great you are throwing a tantrum like this, Red must have really fucked you off.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:36 pm
who is bryan spondre?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:37 pm
“Everything you say about anonymous posters is true of yourself you pitiful coward, for if you had not been sprung, you’d still be posting here under one of those numerous pseudonyms you irrational wack job.”
Russell, you clearly think that posting under pseudonyms is wrong. So what is your real name ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Exactly nickb, who is this Spondre fuckwit ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:39 pm
“Red must have really fucked you off.”
Yes, so true, but only by exposing him for what he truly is. Real name or pseudonym, Mr. Spondre comes across as one of the most scatter brained, odious, hypocritical and cowardly personalities in the blogosphere.
He deeply resents Redbaiter for making those personality defects so glaringly apparent, and like most psychos, refuses to acknowledge the actuality that it is really all his own work.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:41 pm
“Motivations don’t matter.”
Really Ryan ? So when Mike Williams posted as “Batman” on The Standard last year about the H-Fee ‘scandal’, his motivation wasn’t relevant ?
A statement only makes sense in the context that it sits including the identity of its author.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:43 pm
“He deeply resents Redbaiter”
You appear to be talking about yourself in the third person Russell.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Come on Russell how hard can it be to share your real name ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:51 pm
You’ve just made about twenty post obsessively declaring that you know Redbaiter’s identity yet now your asking what that is?
What a complete and utter fool you are Mr. Spondre.
Make whatever assumptions you wish you pitiful bore. Knock yourself out. Nothing is going to change, and certainly not the overwhelming contempt you generate in anyone who cares to observe your cowardly twisting and turning.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:55 pm
You are talking about yourself in the third person again Russell.
So why is it so hard for you to come out of the closet ? What are you afraid of ? What will people discover if they know who you really are ?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 10:57 pm
who is he RB?
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Personally I would prefer everyone to post under real names. Their own one would be best of course
But the internet is a haven for people to shout anonymously. I belive that if you are not prepared to put your name to a statement, it’s value is somewhat diminished. That goes for those posters here who I like, as well as those who I don’t.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:12 pm
“who is he RB?”
I don’t know who he is. I only know he gained considerable infamy as being the moderator on Christ Trotter’s blog, where I was banned because Trotter objected to my posting name. Spondre became an unwitting figure of fun for his habit of self importantly signing off all his comments with the officious title “Blog Producer”.
Spondre gained notoriety as one of the most dumb ignorant cowardly and repulsive moderators in the blogosphere, and capped of his jack booted behaviour on Trotter’s blog by posting all of the IP addresses of posters he had banned.
He suffered serious criticism on Kiwiblog for his irrational behaviour and then turned up here posting under numerous pseudonyms until he was exposed as the Bryan Spondre from Trotter’s blog.
I guess he hold Redbaiter responsible for the fact that he is now held in contempt by a large part of the blogosphere, whereas, as I said above, its all really down to his own repugnant and cowardly behavior.
It really doesn’t matter who he is. To me, he’s just one more internet wack job with no argument worth jackshit on any issue, and with such a grasshooper approach to politics, he doesn’t know himself whether he is left right or in some other dimension. Just another boring fuckwit that I shouldn’t even be responding to, (but it is interesting to observe just how much he is willing to degrade himself.)
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Do a quick search through my comments for the words “political player”. Redbaiter is not Mike Williams.
Nonsense. 1+1 is or is not 2 whoever says it. Statements about the world can be judged on their own merits. When people make statements about themselves, you can start worrying about context to judge the veracity of the claims.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Asking a masked man who he is
Vote:
July 31st, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Is this him ?
http://www.flickr.com/people/mawgxxxxiv/
His profession – visual artist and blog producer. In other words he’s on the DPB, like phil u – an attention seeking narcissist.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:26 pm
“He suffered serious criticism on Kiwiblog for his irrational behaviour and then turned up here posting under numerous pseudonyms until he was exposed as the Bryan Spondre from Trotter’s blog.”
So he’s not too unlike Billy Borker / Fugley / MyNameIsJack / Quentin Tubb / Alex Burns [d4j's daughters name] / Stan Zemanek then !
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Not at all unlike. Same kind of sick weirdo loser.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Yep. This site has suffered an infestation of them in recent months.
Vote:July 31st, 2009 at 11:49 pm
RB. Oh yeah, I thought you’d find some mild sense of amusement/bemusement in this (you weren’t around at the time)
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/07/general_debate_17_july_2009.html#comment-584519
Such sanctimony, such self-indulgence – almost brought a tear to my eye.
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 12:04 am
Wow, wonder what we could do to get the poor mistreated little guy to reconsider??
Yeah right.
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 12:17 am
“Ignore” needs no function – it occurs intrinsically and is the ultimate moderation tool
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 12:47 am
“Wow, wonder what we could do to get the poor mistreated little guy to reconsider??”
I was wondering where he went.
Vote:Whats the bet his new name is hubris.
August 1st, 2009 at 7:13 am
Bryan Spondre aka The Link Whore July 31st, 2009 at 10:23 pm
“FFS Bryan, you are way off topic here.”
The topic is moderation.
You have been far from moderate here.
DPF: “Feedback is sought and welcome on what you thought of the change during the four days – the pros and cons, any suggestions for future etc.”
You have not even tried to stay anywhere near on topic. You have flooded this with a repetitive repetitive repetitive personal vendetta. At best you have given DPF a practical example of why moderation, demerits and banning may improve the quality of the blog.
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 7:51 am
What do I think?
I think you should stop channeling Peter Griffin from Family Guy. Otherwise you’re likely to get comments like this thrown at you “Hey! This guy`s a big phony! A big FAT phony“.
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 7:55 am
errrr, I think some of you need to get out more.
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 9:50 am
# Shunda barunda (657) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 1 Says:
August 1st, 2009 at 12:47 am
“Wow, wonder what we could do to get the poor mistreated little guy to reconsider??”
I was wondering where he went.
Whats the bet his new name is hubris.
Oh come now, Shunda, that’s an unnecessary barb, and incorrect. I thought we were getting on so well (since we stopped responding to eachother’s posts, that is.)
Whatever you believe, that person is not me. It’s actually quite obvious (to me at least) from the style of writing.
I turned up here for the first time just over a week ago. I soon became fascinated (and a little creeped-out, admittedly) with some of the ‘personalities’ posting here. 90% of you seem to be Garth George posting under many, many aliases.
But I enjoyed the slow-motion car crash so much, I thought I’d stay and watch for a bit longer, as is my privilege as long as I don’t transgress the Commandments that our overlord DPF has laid down for us.
I hope that helps to clarify things, and put your mind at rest.
Always,
hubris xxx
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Instead of content based moderation maybe restrict posting privileges by age. I recently asked how old posters were and no-one responded because they knew they would be exposed as know-it-all students filled with the simplistic certainty of youth.
It’s easy to see things in black in white when you are young and full of hormones. It is not their fault as their brains are still developing.
Now where is my walking stick …
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 12:33 pm
I’m 29, Gumby. Don’t think I’m quite empty of hormones yet. However, I don’t think any particular age group has a monopoly on know-it-all-ness.
Vote:August 1st, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Um… I know this is very exciting, but I’m quite sure the names were changed to protect the innocent.
Vote:August 2nd, 2009 at 6:59 pm
I thought Redbaiter was Russel Watkins not Russel Fletcher?
Vote: