Nasty Politics
When I talk on blogging, I joke how most people are calm and reasonable in real life, but put them behind a blog and they turn into a foaming abusive person but that the opposite effect has been seen with Trevor Mallard in that he comes across on the blogs as far more calm and reasonable than he sometimes does in the House.
Generally I have been full of praise for Red Alert, and Trevor’s contributions specifically. But sometimes he goes too far. Yesterday Trevor blogged:
In 1999 and 2000, and again in the few days he was deputy leader of the National Party, Nick Smith has shown an inability to cope when the pressure comes on.
Widely circulating Beehive rumours now indicate that John Key has overloaded him giving him Climate Change and ACC at the same time.
Now this is just nasty stuff. Sure criticise a Minister on issues, and point out areas where he or she may be under stress. But Trevor is either fabricating or spreading rumours designed to remind people that Nick had some stress issues during his brief tenure as Deputy Leader.
I know of a Labour MP who once had a similar issue. I would never ever keep harping on about that on the blogs. I think it is great it is all behind them, and don’t see it as a weapon to be used against him or her.
Anyway I commented on Red Alert:
I must remember to link to this post in 2011, when reminding people why not to vote Labour.
This is just a different version of you yelling out “Take your pills” in the House. I think you forget how deeply unpopular such antics are.
My second sentence was censored on the grounds it takes it beyond Trevor’s limits. In fact it got censored because I was explicit at point out what Trevor was trying to say implicitly.
I probably shouldn’t say anything, as letting people show their nasty side is unpopular. This is part of why Labour was thrown out – their attacks on Key and others did look nasty.
I hope this is the last time we see that sort of post on Red Alert.
As I said a post criticising specifics of Nick’s handling of either ACC or climate change would be quite legitimate. But as I said, this is just a cyber-version of yelling out “Take your pills” in the House – something that only declined in frequency after the media started to report on why Labour were doing it.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
It doesn’t strike me as that nasty to be honest. All in the nature of politics.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
its a shame you dont give Trevor a taste of his own medicine when he comments here
(but yeah – we know you’re bigger than that)
October 14th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I’m surprised Trevor would want to highlight the stress that other MPs are under. It would seem appropriate to point out that Mallard has been highly stressed in Parliament itself to the point he snapped, took another MP outside, and threw some punches at him.
Of course, Mallard was under stress at the time. He had a broken marriage, he was in a new relationship, and he was being taunted about it. So why would he engage in similar behaviour himself?
October 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
There is a comment once made about Al Franken which applies to Trevor too -
“he’s a human void, surrounded by a single, gigantic sphincter muscle”
October 14th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Seems like a bit of an old school relapse, hopefully that’s all. I think Trevor has come across as an ordinary bloke on blog as well, it’s good to have the contact opportunity. But as anyone knows it’s possible to rattle off key and post without thinking things through as well as you should.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Allot worse is said of MPs than not being able to cope under stress. To be frank those are two pretty large portifolios considering both are incredibly controversal at the moment, with the left and right both wanting the total opposite (increased cover vs privatisation / competition).
Also saying someone doesnt cope so well under stress is nowhere like saying they need to pop pills (i.e. in the UK at the moment).
I agree it was better to not have been said, as its a rumour and its something that doesnt need to be spread out of the inner parliament gossip circle. But its not as bad as many things that go on.
Quick Edit – Think Susi’s post is right on the money
October 14th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
There is one Labour MP who is suffers from bipolar disorder. Would Trevor be happy for him or her to be taunted in the House?
Let us not forget it was Trevor who taunted Dob Brash about his alleged affair?
Typical Labour – they like to dish it out but cry foul when there is a retaliation.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Someone actually said “take your pills!”?!
[DPF: Many, many Labour MPs have yelled this out on multiple occassions]
October 14th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Why the hell do we on the right hold back when it comes to sticking the boot in?
We are still playing by the rules Klark and co set, if it is OK for Trev to have a crack at Smith because of past mental health issues then we on the right should adopt the same tactics and start having a crack at the junkie on Labour’s back bench or the past drink driving deeds of Dyson.
We could also have a go at the openly gay ministers, I am sick of this “turn the other cheek” shit.
It is time that the gloves came off.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Red Alert has been quite interesting to watch since it started. At one stage there did seem to be some legitimate debate going on there and it seemed as if Labour may have started to learn from their mistakes in the past. Recently though it has become more of a forum for throwing mud at the Nats and is now nothing more than a circle-jerk of tribal sycophants.
It is clear from Red Alert that Labour have nothing, everything is about attacking National and hoping they can make some mud stick. I shudder to think how much debt they would have racked up on a stimulus had they been in power. They seem to be of the opinion that the best way for NZ to ride out the recession was to borrow billions and spend up large.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Someone ought to alert Mallard’s counsellor (or is it therapist?).
Sounds like he’s overdue for another course of anger-management training.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Trev the Mus, doesn’t give a s**t, he must have forgotten he ended up in court when he lost the plot (that struck me as a case of being mentally unbalanced). But I guess he’s already forgotten about that. The boots being put in big time over on Red Alert.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Would an MP telling another MP to “take their pills” be akin to someone here on Kiwiblog telling Philu to take another drag on his joint?
[DPF: The key difference is MPs should not act as anonymous posters on a blog]
October 14th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
BB – the gloves aren’t off on Kiwlblog?
Fair comment Kris.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Oh well, I guess by his own logic if Trevor gets to be a cabinet minister again, the return to a stressful role will mean that he will start punching people again.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Publicly announcing that [Woman's name] is receiving over $700 in benefits is cool, in the eyes of the right. Smithers, release the hounds!
Yet one old pro giving another stick and basically saying “you need to harden the f*ck up Nick” is somehow “nasty”?????
POT: Oh kettle, how black thou art.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
@ Stephen – indeed they did – and more than one Labour MP is guilty, one more than one occasion. In the dying days of Helen Clark’s government, it was a popular refrain from the government benches, during which time the PM and Deptuy PM sat grinning like cheshire cats, and the then-Speaker Margaret Wilson did nowt unless offence was taken. It was not one of Parliament’s finest periods.
October 14th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Meanwhile, Mallard seems to have develped a trigger-finger with the edit button. There was a comment on one of his threads on Monday suggesting that Smith and English were “throwbacks from the 90’s”. I dared to suggest that was rather an ironic comment on a post authored by one of the Rogernomics survivors, a comment to which Our Trev took affront! I would venture to suggest that Red Alert will go downhill very quickly if Mallard doesn’t learn to laugh at himself a little. It’s easy to toss insults around, but the measure of any man (or woman) is how they receive them.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Good point, Kris, though God help us all if NZ blogger comments are the standard by which MPs’ manners are to be judged.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
[DPF: Many, many Labour MPs have yelled this out on multiple occassions]
and
@ Stephen – indeed they did – and more than one Labour MP is guilty, one more than one occasion. I
On the one hand i’m appalled, but on the other I suspect that this has been almost normal from the Big Two in Parliament over the years.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
While I’m glad that National doesn’t stoop to the levels we saw exhibited by the then Labour government; especially by numbers one and two, I do have to empathise to a drgree with Big Bruv’s 1:33 pm comment.
People in glass houses really should refrain from stone throwing. And Labour would be wise in holding back on the personal comments and slurs.
And DPF, try and develop a sense of humour. If I met Philu in person, I’d still tell him to ‘take another drag on his joint’ if he behaved the way he does on your blog. I don’t alter my behaviour just because I post anonomously. And I resent your implication that I do. Rant over.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
^^^Seconded, except with the proviso that moral outrage on Big Bruv’s part is a bad joke given how well tolerated his homophobic bigotry is…
October 14th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
It was a cheap shot, carefully couched in language for those inside the beltway. While I agree with DPF that it was totally unnecessary, I also have some time for those who say that one gets as good as one gives. Ugly business, the creche we call Parliament. Takes me back to the book “Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarten”!
October 14th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Ryan Sproull 2:01 pm,
I agree Ryan. I think if all of us were more conscious of how we come across to others it would greatly improve both blogs and parliament.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
RRM 2:09 pm,
You better add me to that list you’ve got Big Bruv on then.
In fact there’s a large queue of Kiwibloggers gathering behind me …
Most of us are fairly intolerant of at least a few things in common, wouldn’t you agree?
October 14th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Yes – double standards and unwillingness to treat others as you would have them treat yourself are my favourite things to be intolerant of.
(Gay-bashing on Kiwiblog is a personal favourite, given how almost every other kind of personal freedom is championed. The “hypocrisy” of the left vs the “pragmatism” of the right is another. But we are getting way off-topic now…)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Nice arse Kris…..
October 14th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Of course, as we DO live in a (at least lnominally) Democratic society, and Kiwiblog is a reflection of this, perhaps it would be appropriate to invite Mr Mallard to a ‘right of reply’ – especially as we know he does blog and read what is written her-in.
So what about it Trev? Are you prepared to justify your actions and your words to your peers (both supporters and detractors) on Kiwiblog, and tell us why you wrote what you did – why the necessity of a personal attack on one of your fellow house-members?
I hope so, and look forward to your reply (and no doubt others do too . . .)
October 14th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Frog
It’s a bit early to be playing the “the Greens are above all this” card given the way you guys have been exposed as defrauding the tax payer don’t you think?
October 14th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Trevor is a coward. Thats the short of it. He cannot defend his actions despite how taseless they are (remember the Key killing babies thread).
He edits anything that he does not agree with. In the end Red Alert will be just a spouting ground for the same old lefties, with no debate, no depth and often a complete lack of common scene. Cant wait for it to die.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Have to agree with you on this one DPF. Actually I think at least half the time Trevor Mallard opens his mouth he seems to go too far.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
It is all unedifying, but the circle turns constantly. I, for one, was outraged, for example, by the Right’s deliberate, oft-repeated and unsubstantiated attacks on Helen Clark’s personal life, with all the nonsense and foetid imagination that required. I am not personally aware of any affliction suffered by Mr Smith, but, if there is one, I would sincerely hope that it would not become the subject of malicious comment. Equally, I would hope that political commentaries would steer clear of people’s private lives, and especially those of families and friends who find themselves suddenly in the limelight, be they Mr English, Mr Mallard or anyone else.
This is, of course, one area in which blogs and democratic commentary of this type might establish voluntary standards of behaviour, which in time might impinge on parliamentary practice.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I think everybody should calm down a bit…
Nick Smith’s portfolio responsibilities are fairly minor and irrelevant (strictly speaking he has been demoted since the Shipley Government) so this is hardly a ‘Thomas Eagleton’ scenario.. [look it up] ..where a potential ‘finger on the button’ situation required certain personal issues to be investigated because of legitimate concerns.
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
October 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I don’t care whether Nick is the coolest head in town.
I believe it is a mistake to put one Minister in charge of RMA reforms, Climate Change, and ACC.
These are all minefields and highly contentious and are growing more so by the day.
How can anyone, and I mean anyone, do justice to the RMA reforms and the ETS and its implications, and the ACC debacle at the same time.
Would anyone put their hat in the ring?
The PM could say that he did not foresee all of these coming to the boil at once but now that they have he should lighten the burden by lightening the load.
It’s just good manpower planning.
It’s a shame the real issue has been sidelined by smears.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Good point Owen.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
“We could also have a go at the openly gay ministers, I am sick of this “turn the other cheek” shit.”
Yip because that definitely effects someone’s ability to goven, like not being able to handle the stress of ones portfolio (which in fairness to Nick is a redicolously mine ridden portfolio. ACC + climate change with people with incredibly strong views on this and the other fence for both).
Fuck you are a retard at times Bruv
October 14th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Trevor can’t stand the truth and he hates being outwitted. Typical schoolteacher/bully. The Red Rag started off as something that allowed some debate and engagement with Labour MP’s, but rapidly declined into an echo chamber where Trevor is editing everything so it remains in accordance with his message. Waste of time to try to argue with the collectivists. It is very sad really that the people that are supposed to make law (or at least play some sort of constructive role in the process) are a bunch of tribal idiots without a brain, operating on simplistic dogma only.
October 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I’ve given up with Red Alert. I commented there for a while but strange schizophrenic things kept happening – they’d appear, then they’d be removed, then they’d reappear amended and soon after be removed again.
I agree with those who say Trevor and others need to have at least a semblance of a sense of humour, not to mention some flexibility in their comments policy. But then that’s how they governed, eh?
October 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
It is pretty obvious that the millions spent on tv advertising under Labour (and continued under National) telling us that 1 in 5 NZers have a mental disorder and we should all be nice to them – has been a complete waste of money when Trev MP can’t help himself when it come to jibes (that is jibes, not jabs, but he can’t help himself with those either apparently).
October 14th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I guess Trevor is now the country’s highest paid professional blogger.
October 14th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Trev has to take his pills everyday so he can perform too – Trev can’t do without his Viagra.
October 14th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I’m disgusted by personal attacks by politicians, and Mallard does it regularly.
October 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
I commented on Red Alert that a Labour minister had lied to me and that a certain ginga had lost a safe Labour seat because he ignored the voters. Trevor banned me for being obscene. What a tosser.
[DPF: Potentially defamatory stuff deleted]
October 14th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
I personally take offense at any gay bashing… The evidence it is genetic and hormonal is quite compelling, let alone the freedom anyone should have over their own sexuality and marriage arrangements stemming from that sexuality…
October 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
I posted this and wonder how long it will stay there.
Democratic Labour my arse.
“So Trevor you deleted some of DPF’s comment highlighting your nastiness towards Nick Smith.
Play the issue not the man you say when anyone brings up your personal issues.
How about some integrity from yourself on this?
Who had ACC for 9yrs lads??
You forget Labour were chucked out because of two things, nanny state arrogance towards us and your spending of our money and viciousness towards people who oppose you”.
October 14th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
frog:
It’s all very well to say “if you dish it out, you’ve got to be able to take it back”, but I don’t think its dirty pool to point out that while I’ve been observing politics there have been a number of Labour MPs with, shall we say, stress-related mental health or alcohol dependency issues. And Mallard would be the first to cry “point of order” — and rightly so –, if anyone on the Government side interjected “take your pills” or “who had a liquid lunch”. Or, dare I say it, “Calm down, Trevor, Helen gave Phil the taser before she left!”
October 14th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Jeremy
I too take offense at gay bashing and also the homophobic bashing by the GBLT lobby too.
Genetic, show me your sources? Sadly it remains your wish for it haven’t been proven by science as you well know.
Sexuality is both hard wired and software empowered.
Before the GBLT lobby overpowered the APA it was considered a choice that was not correct or the default design.
I look at the design of humans and that shows me what would be the default sexuality however much people get “angry/offended” with me.
When the design changes (by evolution perhaps?) then I would be more receptive to your position.
October 14th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Would that be missionary, cowboy or doggie?
October 14th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Brian there are more than three positions.
October 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
BB makes a fir point. The Nats. are not winners and don’t act like winners. Winners take all and they don’t appear to have enough supporters of caliber that they have the balls to boot out the lefties from all their posts supported by the govt tit.
Lefties in place everywhere and its past time many of them were sent packing.
As for Smiths posturing about how tough the decisions were today, well that’s what people in high places get paid for., making tough decisions and doing the tough stuff, so message is stop being a cry baby and looking for sympathy. Try having to lay off many staff, lots of whom have worked for you for years. Now that’s tough.
As for workload. He doesn’t need to do anything about the ETS . Not a thing.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Wasn’t impressed at all with Smiths whinning how it was tough making a simple announcement. What a cry baby. If that’s as tough as it gets on his salary he should try owning a company and having to lay off many loyal longterm staff.
But that’s what happens at the top.
As for his work load. HMMM well he doesn’t need to do anything with the ETS. Zilch, nada, nothing. We don’t need nor want another tax collection to give to some Russian zillionaire.
As fthe RMA, well he had 9 loooong years to figure out what to change and he wimped out on that as well.
Doesn’t earn nor deserve his Salary.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
National has some unfinished business with Mallard, maybe Whaleoil has something let us wait and see.
October 14th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I often wonder about those who gay bash, just how wide a stance do they take.
It seems that those who go on about gays have questions about their own sexuality.
October 14th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
“I often wonder about those who gay bash, just how wide a stance do they take.”
The stance really depends on the implement being used for said bashing. Anything with a bit of weight behind it is going to require a good solid base to swing from.
October 14th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
I’m not keen on gay bashing (Chris Cater an exception .. oh, I saw him in the house today, great tan) mainly because I am actually a lesbian in a mans body.
Great to see so many others having comments deleted or even being yellow and red carded .. I recently got a “once more and you will confined to Kiwibog forever” line. Felt honoured actually and I had said sod all.
David .. how about a open offer to Trev to front up .. dedicate a full post for him. I would suggest that we would crack the 200 club.
October 14th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Paul and Brian
Are there?
October 15th, 2009 at 12:02 am
@Mike NZ, well most of the studies (in fact almost all) have been done on homosexual men…
It is interesting you bring up the APA because I hadn’t heard what you imply and a few of the reports I read were by them… I’ve also read a few reports by the AMA mainly studying identical male twins and their sexuality (if one was gay 70% chance the other was) showing a genetic link to homosexuality… Also the link between having older brothers and being a homosexual male increases with every older brother you have, the study showed as a woman has male children her body produces less antibodies realising it is not a threat and in response the developing male produces less testosterone…
I read quite widely from a few (curiously) American organisations, it was about 2 years ago when my brother came out I decided I was going to look into all of this so I can’t really remember the links off the top of my head, there were plenty of other interesting tidbits of information that really changed my mind about whether it is choice or not, I am now convinced it’s not…
But to be truthful even if it is, it is someone’s choice as far as I’m concerned…
October 15th, 2009 at 5:09 am
Lockwood Smith is showing a great deal of restraint deling with Trev in the house at the moment. However, I think he is letting letting him go a little bit further yet and then I think the ever smiling speaker just may become a smiling assasin. Trev does not understand the first law of holes. When in one and you want to get out, stop digging.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:53 am
The “take your pills” crack, which Mallard of course did NOT sayis about an original as Smith’s favourite line” Get a life”.
Mallard’s insults are at least original.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Jeremy
http://www.narth.org
a friend is an analyst and accesses their professional entry options.