Ali Mau vs Woman’s Day
February 18th, 2010 at 1:27 pm by David FarrarI didn’t blog previously on Woman’s Day outing Ali Mau, as frankly I thought it was distasteful and didn’t want to publicise it further. I did comment on the Journz mailing list which discussed the issue, as follows:
I think the decision to out Ali Mau is regrettable, and part of a slippery slope which points the wrong way.
I accept that if someone is in the public eye as a celebrity, then who they are dating will make the media. But when that information doesn’t just reveal who they are dating, but a sexual orientation that is not yet public, I think it should not be published unless there is hypocrisy etc. I prefer people to reveal their own sexual orientation, not have the media do it for them – especially when they may have children etc. Her kids may now have to put up with teasing at school from classmates that their mum is a lesbian.
If Ali was going to come out anyway, then it is a different matter, but as Dean said I would not want to be an editor approving such a story unless I was certain.
A few people have said they broadly agreed with my stance.
Now since then Ali has hit back at Woman’s Day with force, as reported here by Stuff:
High-profile Television New Zealand presenter Alison Mau has struck out at a magazine editor she says hired a “creepy” paparazzi photographer to stalk her children, friends and family.
Today, on TV One morning show Breakfast, Mau addressed her recent tabloid coverage during a regular slot on the show dedicated to reviewing the weekly New Zealand gossip magazines.
Holding up the latest issue of Woman’s Day magazine – opened to a story titled “Alison Mau’s sleepover” – Mau questioned when the magazine’s editor, Sarah Henry, would leave her family alone. …
Mau then said some people had said she was “fair game” because of her public profile.
“But, here’s my question, now that they’ve run this story, I have a question for Woman’s Day editor Sarah Henry and her offsider Catherine Milford.
“Perhaps you’d both be kind enough to let me know when this, when this kind of thing, will stop?
“Just give me an idea when the dogs will be called off and me, my friends and my family can go about our business without having creepy guys in Corolla station wagons following us around?
“I hope that’s a fair question, if you’d like to comment at all, being our breakfast viewers, or pose the same question, drop us a line or send it direct to Sarah Henry at Woman’s Day, she’s on shenry@acpmagazines.co.nz”
The TV show then ran Henry’s email address on screen.
And below is the video of the Breakfast show:
Now I have no problem with Ali striking back. In fact I admire her for doing so, and all strength to her. Woman’s Day deserve to be called out for what they did.
But I do have an issue about whether TVNZ should be assisting Mau with her campaign. They not only flashed the e-mail address up on the Woman’s Day editor on screen (would they do that for anyone else) for people to fire hate mail off at, they also covered the story on Close Up that night. And again, I ask if they would have done that, if one of the protagonists didn’t work for them.
So again to be clear, I have absolutely no issues with Ali Mau hitting back, and wanting to use whatever opportunity she has. Good on her. But I do think TVNZ needs to be cautious about its role in this.
Related posts:
- Susan Wood keeps her job
- Paul Henry show axed in Australia
- Analysing the Henry decision
- Breakfast TV
February 18th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
I feel for the ex and all the barbs directed at him.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
The mag editor shouldn’t dish it out if she can’t take it. I’m not fussed that mau used TVNZ resources to hit back, their aim is to produce and entertaining show, they certainly succeeded with this…
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
The Auckland glitterati eating each other again.
Hey ho
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
“But I do think TVNZ needs to be cautious about its role in this.” – is there anything wrong with TVNZ “taking sides” ? A rather more trivial example of the NZ Herald campaign on the Electoral Finance issue.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
The NZ Herald is privately owned. It can do what it likes within the law. TVNZ, even in its SOE role, is an arm of government. Government has no business involving itself in this kind of issue.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
She can just thank her lucky stars that she doesn’t live in the UK or she would be reading the headline in the News of the World “Mau now plows fraus”
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Your blog, you decide what you want to do on it, you take responsibility for any repercussions.
TVNZ’s show, they decide what they want to do on it, they take responsibility for any repercussions.
End. Of. Story.
[DPF: I own my blog. TVNZ does not own TVNZ. It is crown owned and receives taxpayer contributions towards some programmes. So your analogy is rather stupid]
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
TVNZ’s show, taxpayers decide what they want to do on it, they take responsibility for any repercussions.
Fixed.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
i think its fine for Mau to hit back personally, and found the comments about when specific photos were taken an interesting insight to how these tabloid mags work, but…
Has Mau never ever used her job to discuss other celebrities? to discuss hollywood gossip or to pass judgement on others. as roarprawn pointed out, she has no issue with being all over the mags when she wants to be.
this (for me) may be a bit much of good for the goose, good for the gander, as what Mau is complaining about is likely to be much the same either she or shows she is on have done.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Agreed — this is junk news. They should’a run a followup on Robin Brooke instead.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
This spat will push up readership of the magazine. All the tut-tutters will be buying it or reading it at the checkout.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Redbaiter – while I sympathize with your point of view I think the reality is that TVNZ want to milk these kinds of issues as much as possible to drive viewer-ship numbers. The more viewers the more advertising revenue the less taxpayer burden I suspect. If TVNZ was entirely funded from the taxpayer and carried no advertising the situation would be different.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Ah yes, as opposed to that right way pointing slippery slope
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
handbags at 40 paces
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Sonny,
Vote:And there goes the flaw…
The taxpayer does not decide. At all. Ever. In just the same way that you don’t decide how any of your tax dollars will be spent.
You can influence, you hope, but you have no decision power at all.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Is there nothing more vile on this planet than the MSM?
Vote:What a pack of narcissists.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Alison should go smoke a cone with the close up team.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Next story PLEASE
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
It was actually the NZ Herald that ‘outed’ her first off. Which makes it far worse, a so called ‘serious’ paper splashing it on their front page. I mean who really cares???
Vote:What is more serious is the NZ media’s descent into tabloid, TVNZ included.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Don’t have a problem with TVNZ taking sides…. I just hope that Alison does an FHM shoot soon.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
I love how her clone just sits and nods while she rants.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Kind of hard not to reveal “who they are dating” without revealing the “sexual orientation” of the individual.
Why is it ok to reveal if someone is ‘dating’ if it’s a heterosexual relationship, but NOT ok if it’s a homosexual relationship just because the individual hasn’t ‘come out’. What a load of PC wankerism.
People who choose to live in glass houses shouldn’t get their knickers in a twist if their private ‘choices’ come into the public arena.
“Her kids may now have to put up with teasing at school from classmates that their mum is a lesbian.”
I guess Mau should have thought about that prior to hooking up in a lesbian relationship. Sadly, the kids, I feel, will be the ones that suffer most out of all this. I hope Dallow gets sole custody of them if and when this becomes an issue.
[Kind of relates to our Deception topic of yesterday about the merits of Lesbians (good looking or not) adopting kids.]
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Live by the sword, die by the sword. She was happy enough to whore her kids out to the wimmin’s mags in the past, she shouldn’t be surprised now. And can someone give Le Grand Fromage a beer for that headline? Wonderful.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
DPF, this is the second story in as many days featuring attractive lesbians.
Just saying.
Nice work.
[DPF: lol]
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
” The more viewers the more advertising revenue the less taxpayer burden I suspect. ”
Your points are quite valid. TVNZ should therefore be entirely privatized.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Kimble: Hahaha.
Vote:Redbaiter: Is making total sense, this is scary (although I would favour his original pitch that it is not the interest of a state broadcaster than the later but yes).
Kris: Thanks for proving yet again you are the biggest biggot on this website.
February 18th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
I have no sympathy for Mau or any of the other ‘celebs’ who piss and moan about storied appearing in the media that do not paint them in the best light.
Mau has appeared in these low rent magazines in the past, no doubt she was paid by them to tell her story, I imagine it would have had a headline like “share Ali’s pain” only to find out that the story is about an ingrown toe nail.
Once you let them into your life once they own you, people like Mau cannot then moan about stories that she does not agree with.
The hypocrisy of Mau’s stand will become clear in the next few days or weeks when she decides to tell her story to one of the other magazines.
I also find it amazing that a person in the media would object to be “stalked” or followed, I am sure Mau has “stalked” or followed some poor bastard in the past when she was a reporter, the real issue here is that Mau does not like receiving a dose of her own medicine.
If she wanted the story to go away she should have dealt with it in the same dignified manner as her ex husband.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
TVNZ Breakfast has a segment on their show called “what’s in the womens mags”. They’ve had it for ages and have been more then happy to use its gossip to support their ratings. They didn’t seem to care about all the other people the gossips mags were talking about, in fact they salivated over it. Now Ali is one of the stories she’s all up in arms as if she wasn’t exactly the same as the people she is accusing.
Silly bints all of them.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Bruv nails it! wonder if Mau had a “miracle baby” and picked up 20k for the pics?
apart from that, hot milf dating a dance teacher? thats news in ANY country.
Kris K – you concern me. the father should get sole custody because alison is dating a chick?!? jesus christ.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Jeff83 2:29 pm,
If pointing out that there are consequences to the choices we make earns me the title of “the biggest biggot on this website”, then I’ll happily wear it with pride.
What you may happen to think of me, Jeff, has about as much effect on me as does a fly farting in China.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
dime 2:43 pm,
As you raised it; I think Jesus Christ may actually share my view that Mau has shown herself to be an unfit mother by her choice to enter into a lesbian relationship.
Bottom line, Dime:
What’s best for the kids?
[DPF: I think Jesus should stay the eff out of it. Simon and Alison have worked out between them what is best for their kids, and frankly it is greatly offensive for you to label her an unfit mother.]
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
making sure you are never allowed near them to indoctrinate them in hate Kris K.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
“I think Jesus Christ may actually share my view that Mau has shown herself to be an unfit mother by her choice to enter into a lesbian relationship.”
Care to back that up with quotes? From Jesus, that is, not the likes of the raving loony who wrote Leviticus or the shrill frother Paul.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Once you let them into your life once they own you, people like Mau cannot then moan about stories that she does not agree with..
Big Bruv: The next time you want to run the ‘Mau’s a stinking hypocritical media whore who asked for it” line, could you post you full name and address so I can start stalking you and your family. In the interests of justice, I also reserve the right to insinuate you’re a downlow queer if you’re snapped even talking to anyone of the same gender.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
[DPF: I own my blog. TVNZ does not own TVNZ. It is crown owned and receives taxpayer contributions towards some programmes. So your analogy is rather stupid]
Stupid analogies are what M@tt is known for.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
As you raised it; I think Jesus Christ may actually share my view that Mau has shown herself to be an unfit mother by her choice to enter into a lesbian relationship.
What makes her less fit as a mother than a solo mum who’s husband recently passed away (or run off with the town tramp)?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
kris k – you’re the reason people give Christianity so much shit. you are down right offensive.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Bevan 3:14 pm,
While there may be other examples of unfit mothers/fathers, I believe (as a Christian) that homosexuality is wrong, and if a parent chooses to embrace a homosexual ‘lifestyle’ then they should forfeit their right to raise children (even their own). The lifestyle and values they promote in this regard is no longer in the best interests of the children in my humble opinion.
While others here may disagree with me; this is my opinion (and I believe supported biblically), and it has equal validity on the basis that we (still) live in a free society with the right of free speech last time I checked.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
“[DPF: I own my blog. TVNZ does not own TVNZ. It is crown owned and receives taxpayer contributions towards some programmes. So your analogy is rather stupid]”
Actually, it is not.
Ownership is irrelevant. I was simply pointing out they make the decision on what they show, not you. Just as you make the decisions on what happens on your blog, not me.
Of course as a stakeholder, whether it is viewer, reader or taxpayer, you have varying levels of indirect influence. As was illustrated with the flood of emails concerning Paul Henry and his insidious presence. Where is he again…
Anyhow, complain away. It’s quite ironic and fun to watch.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Give it a few months and the nice 5 page photo shoot and editorial will appear in the same magazine of how Mau and her live in Lesbian lover are getting on along with the extensive renovations carried out and how they deeply love each other and the kids have a new best friend etc etc (and wheres my 50 grand for the photo shoot).
or it could all be a BS and she doesn’t bat for the her own team. Poor old Simon and it’s got to impact on the kids.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Yawn.
Vote:Watch leftrightout ( James Sleep ) attack me first – then big blouse – then all the other deranged internet lickspittles. TVNZ run NZ don’t they?
February 18th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Look whose just arrived home with a rigger of Lion
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Kris
Mau does not go from being a ‘fit’ mother into an ‘unfit’ mother just because she has decided she likes the taste of Kippers.
While I agree it is not great for the kids to have mummy decide she would rather sleep with another mummy the point is that the kids should stay with one or both of their parents, if Mau has any sense of decency (and to protect her kids) she will not make a big issue out of her sexual preference.
This is not the same as gay adoption, that is a totally different argument altogether.
As Dime says, you do your religion untold damage every time you post here.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Dime a blouse lap poodle.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
D4J
Do you really believe that there are some of us who wait here all day for your arrival?
What an idiot you are.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Well Kris, my opinion is you shouldn’t be allowed to raise children, even your own. religion has and will damage a lot more kids than 2 nice people that happen to be gay.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
thats for your contribution D4J. cant believe your kids dont like you, such a winning personality.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
dad4justice (5874) Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Yawn.
Watch leftrightout ( James Sleep )
Fuck, you ARE a clever clogs. How ever did you work out I am really James Sleep. Up until now I wasn’t aware of my alternate identity.
But you’re right about one thing – yes, I DO work for TVNZ. I am a mole planted by TVNZ to undermine all rightwing and christian blogs.
Now you know who I really am, please provide me with your name and address so I can have you “offed” before anyone else finds out.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
dime, you’re kidding me. d4j has children? has someone told CYFS?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Haha, blouse got medication for your disorder yet?
You are the one with the pathological problem. Not me. Your fixation is becoming disturbing to say the least. Pull your Dugan dags back nutbar.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
bearhunter 3:03 pm,
As you asked:
Christ’s own words:
Christ Himself is referencing Leviticus and elsewhere in the Bible where what/who is abominable is defined.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
How about answering the question from last night D4J?
If a father is denied access to his kids unfairly should he still be forced to pay child maintenance?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
How about meeting face to face? Gutless wonder. Go on show everybody your balls have dropped. Yeah right wimp.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Kris, is this the same Christ who was so ignorant of medecine that he thought disease was caused by sin?
Is this the same Christ who was so ignorant of botany that he thought a fig tree had fruit all year round?
Is this the same Christ who thought nothing of stealing another’s property and throwing it over a cliff?
Yeah, I’m sure HE knows what he’s talking about. What a great moral compass.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
D4J
If a father is denied access to his kids unfairly should he still be forced to pay child maintenance?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
dime
Thank God your opinion is just that.
These folk disagree with you and they are all professionals in their thousands.
III. There is significantly greater medical, psychological, and relational pathology in the homosexual population than the general population.
Vote:http://www.narth.com/docs/journalsummary.html
February 18th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Ask me in person you cowardly creep.
Vote:End of story blouse.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
mike – do you agree with kris that a person like alison should lose custody because she is dating a woman? seriously?
oh shit, you think therapy can change someones sexual orientation? lol
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
dime, go to Mike’s link – it will leave you in no doubt as to his sharing of Kris’s warped ideas. In fact, Mike is probably more warped than Kris.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
hey bruv – D4J sounds pretty scary lol
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
LRO – just did. FREAKKKKKKKKKKKK
in saying that, youre on my shit list too for your tea party redneck comments
thank god the NZ right doesnt have a religious influence of any note.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
dime if you and blouse are right wing then I am a gold bar. Cowards on keyboard should join the real world. blouse should reach 20, 000 comments by Christmas. What a cess pit of freaks.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
He sure does Dime, he sounds like a pretty good reason to stay out of Christchurch.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
hey, come on dime, I NEVER use redneck as an insult; I get too much sun myself, at times.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
TNVZ has every right to go in boots and all. Ali Mau is one of their assets, just as Judy Bailey was until the Bilious Bitch destroyed her value.
What I’d like to see is (a) Ali MAu deny that she is lesbian and (b) TVNZ sue the arse of the gutter gossip rag and its slimy editor.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Cowards on keyboard should join the real world.
Pot, meet kettle…..
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
big bruv 3:48 pm,
That’s your opinion; I disagree.
Really – I don’t see it being that far removed actually.
You yourself admitted that you disagree that lesbians should be able to adopt/raise children (yesterday’s Deception topic). So why is it any more acceptable just because one of the (now) lesbians happens to be the mother of the kids? Is not the message being sent to the kids much the same in both cases?
I make no apologies for not compromising on a subject which I believe is made abundantly clear throughout the entire counsel of God’s word.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Kris K: YOUR BIBLE SAYS HOMOSEXUALS SHOULD BE EXECUTED!
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Fortunately for Alison Mau, it doesn’t say “if a female lies with a female as she lies with a man”. So Leviticus has nothing to do with her and you can stop quoting from it. However, since you have, do you support executing homosexual men? If not, why are you disobeying God’s Word?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
My sympathy is with Simon Dallow, now he must know how Ross(from friends) felt like when the love of his life left him for a female lover. Perhaps he should get a DVD of the series to see how to deal with it.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
D4J – im a fiscal conservative. deal with it. youre like an islamic fundamentalist thats wound a point of view and twisted it to match your own sick little mind.
id actually recommend to bruv that he meet up with you face for face, but then i realised you’d have that “retard strength” thing going on. maybe its best if he stays away.
that and its just too much fun watching you humiliate yourself on a daily basis like an angry 9 yr old.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
I must admit, I don’t see what the problem is with TVNZ here.
boil down the layers and layers of social crap, it’s entertaining for some people, which produces viewers, who will watch their rubbish advertisements, who pay TVNZ who then pay their dividends to the government.
The actual issue, I really don’t give a toss about. This has given some airtime and a few viewers. Because the government is involved in this is irreverent to me.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Actually, he’s a pussycat. I met him, oh, 4-5 years ago at a Male Survivors of Sexual Abuse Trust AGM. Ken Clearwater of MSST does some good work, I’m niot sure now what d4j does. I know he was a candidate for one of the loony fringe parties.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. If a woman layeth with a woman like she would a man – thats just fuckin hot” (Leviticus 20:13)
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
I believe (as a Christian) that homosexuality is wrong,
You have no right to dictate to others what is right or wrong based on your pious beliefs.
The lifestyle and values they promote in this regard is no longer in the best interests of the children in my humble opinion.
Are you afraid the poor children might be brainwashed into becoming gay as well? Reminds me of religious indoctrination….
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
I am not sure all of us Christians believe that lesbianism is wrong:
Of course, this does have relevance to the issue of female homosexual ity, as many lesbians do assume masculine roles and attitudes, adopt male clothing and mannerisms, and play the part of a male in their relationships with women. Women who fall into this cat e gory (“butch” les bians, or “bulldykes”) are indeed going against nature with regards to their sexuality. At the same time, however, there are many women who engage in lesbian or bisexual activity who never the less maintain a traditional feminine role and demeanor (i.e., “lip stick” lesbians). Since there is no specific prohibition against lesbian sex, as long as these women remain within the boundaries of the female role prescribed by Scripture, and submit to the authority of the men in their lives, we assume it is permissible.” – sexinchrist.com
By this logic Christ would approve of Ms Mau.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Craig Michael Ranapia – shouldn’t that be I also reserve the right to insinuate you’re a low down queer ?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Kris K, should homosexual men be put to death as prescribed in Leviticus 20:13?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
ISeeRed (156) Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Kris K, should homosexual men be put to death as prescribed in Leviticus 20:13?
No, because that would require him to act on his religion instead of just ordering everyone around.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Adolf
TVNZ have a right to demand that one of their staff should not be treated the same way that TVNZ staff treated Mark Todd?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
For those of you who think the Bible only makes comment on ‘male’ homosexuality being wrong/sin:
I guess Lesbians will get clipped with the same ticket as will their male counterparts.
Vote:I like to think I worship an equal opportunity God.
February 18th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Again, Kris K, other than you dislike homosexuals, you have failed to explain why it effects their ability to raise kids.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Kris -
Kris, is this the same Christ who was so ignorant of medecine that he thought disease was caused by sin?
Is this the same Christ who was so ignorant of botany that he thought a fig tree had fruit all year round?
Is this the same Christ who thought nothing of stealing another’s property and throwing it over a cliff?
those stories are all in your bible. Do you believe they are true?
And what about Kris K, should homosexual men be put to death as prescribed in Leviticus 20:13?
Or are you standing up to your bloodthirsty god?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
The Traditional Psychology position before the homosexual activists spat the dummy and the APA’s gave in in the late 70′s thought that Homosexuality of both types was a diverted gender/sexuality issue.
They were even on it either being a sickness/disorder or a twisting/deflecting of the process of imprinting.
http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzer4.html
Vote:http://www.narth.com/docs/hom101.html
http://www.narth.com/docs/bornthatway.html
http://www.narth.com/docs/nothardwired.html
February 18th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
MikeNZ, if you want credibility in a debate, quote credible sources, not those with an agenda.
Your sources are as credible on their side of the debate os GAYNZ is on theirs.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
ISeeRed 4:35 pm,
Many of the (Physical) death penalties for such things (homosexuality) in the Old Testament are paralleled with a *Spiritual Death Penalty in the New Testament. All unrepentant/unforgiven sin will result in *Spiritual Death.
So while the Physical death penalty (OT) was metered out in this life, the *Spiritual Death Penalty (NT) will be metered out when those without Christ stand before God at the judgement and have to serve sentence for their own unrepented/unforgiven sin.
[NB *Spiritual Death = Eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire.]
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
LRO
Sorry I can’t help that you will not find anything credible that doesn’t push your position.
These people are all professionals in their field (which is not ours) and Dr Spritzer greatly regrets the activist happenings of 1973 onwards.
http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf
Vote:http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Spitzer_%28psychiatrist%29
February 18th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Kris
I really don’t know who I despise more, a pinko or a religious fundamentalist who thinks that the only way to live our lives is by the “good book”
There is a world of difference between Mau deciding she is a lesbian and two committed Lesbians wanting to make a political statement by adopting a kid.
In case you have not noticed Mau is the birth mother of these kids, if you really think the state should step in and take them away just because she has declared herself a Lesbian then you are one fucked up unit.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Journalists deal in other people’s misery and embarrassment.
What do you think Ali does every time she reads the news, mentioning people’s names and their business, or mentions them in the Breakfast show?
So, she Aussie Queen of TV1 should decide what is news worthy and what is not? Who can be mentioned, who cannot?
She sold her story and pics many times to gossip mags, with the flavour that she was perfect and had the perfect marriage.
I think the whole thing is sickening hypocricy, especially with TV1 getting behind her.
Who do they think they are? Will they be supporting criminals from TV1 next?
The best comment I heard for a while was Helen Clarke describing NZ as a goldfish bowl.
Hey, Ali, you made your bed now lay in it or piss off back to Australia where you can be more anonymous and let’s face it belong.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Nice cooment Bevan real jellyfish, dime get a backbone and leftrightout stop with lies never been to Sexual abuse trust, but ask Kenny about me we went to school together. He has a backbone unlike you twisted cowards.
Vote:You nutbars are internet stalkers. Help me mum big blouse just threw a flower at me. What a disgrace you insane twits are.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
big bruv 4:58 pm,
I think you’ll find that fathers have lost access/custody to their kids, through the action of the state, for a whole lot less then a woman declaring herself a lesbian.
And just for the record, if we were talking of a man/father who embraced the homosexual lifestyle then I would have exactly the same view regarding him being an inappropriate custodial parent.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Kris K if you have brains you would ignore the insane foamings of big blouse and his wacko mates. He and dime can’t even agree on homosexuals. They are twisted liars that all should be in a mental ward.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Oh dear, here we go, pick and choose your bible quotation and then choose where it is meant literally or just metaphorically.
Very poor argumentation, Kris K., but that’s how you like to operate. When there is anything uncomfortable in the bible, it is purely metaphoric, when it supports your argument it’s of course literal.
I am grateful that we live in a society that is based on reason and rationality and not on the interpretation of some collection of abstruse and contradictory stories by some religious zealots.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Bevan 4:28 pm,
Why not? And who said?
The liberals/progressives/homosexuals/atheists/evolutionists et al have persistently told Christians that we are wrong, and have imposed their values on the world. You may not like it, but I will continue to tell you/unbelievers that your sin will take you to hell if you repent not.
God so help me, while I have breath …
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
The Kris K Christian view here is an epic fail.
First, proponents quote verses in Leviticus where the Lord God condemns homosexual male acts as an abomination when the topic is a lesbian. God mentions nothing about “woman lying with womankind” here. Why not if just as abominable?
(They may try to implicate Christ in this condemnation by referring to His use of “abominable” or highlight misogynist quotes from Paul in the New Testament, but let’s stick to Leviticus, the most oft-quoted book to condemn homosexuality.)
In their everyday lives, they ignore (disobey) other verses in Leviticus given with exactly the same divine authority, like not cutting your hair (19:27) or wearing clothes of different materials (19:19). There is no rational justification for this. None.
The nail in the coffin is they don’t actually advocate the death penalty for homosexual acts, also prescribed in the same book of Leviticus (20:13). They should but they don’t, because deep down they know it’s wrong.
Oh wait, now Kris K is talking about a “paralleled spiritual death”. Leviticus 20:13 is crystal clear in its meaning and he knows it. KILL THE QUEERS! You can’t take one verse on Leviticus literally and another figuratively and remain credible.
It’s really sad to see human beings capable of rational thought twisting their minds to breaking point with such illogic.
They say they are followers of Christ. In the New Testament, Christ never speaks against homosexuality or slavery. In the Old Testament, homosexuality is condemned while slavery is sanctioned by God. Christ is supposed to fulfill the old law (Matthew 5:17-18) and be [the son of] God. Yet almost all modern Christians think slavery is wrong (disobeying God/Jesus) while a subset think homosexuality is wrong? How is this scripturally justified?
These Christian/Biblical arguments and justifications are weak, selective, inconsistent and hypocritical. They strip some men and women of their dignity and worth as human beings and reduce them to acts of genital friction.
Even worse, this line of thought eventually leads to stoning of homosexuals like in Iran. It’s dangerous and must be vigorously opposed at all times. It is not rational or moral in any way whatsoever. The Good Book is anything but.
(Kris K, in all sincerity, you must know in your heart of hearts, there is a massive incongruity here. You don’t actually advocate the killing of queers because YOU are more moral than your non-existent deity.)
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Kris K, I don’t mind what beliefs give you comfort. I just mind when those who hold them wish to impose legal sanctions on a majority who don’t, or selectively on a minority that can’t defend itself.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
The Traditional Psychology position before the homosexual activists …
Oh, scrrew off MikeNZ. Why don’t you go stone to death an epileptic or three, because the “traditional” view of those poor bitches is that they’re possessed by demons.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
***But I do have an issue about whether TVNZ should be assisting Mau with her campaign. They not only flashed the e-mail address up on the Woman’s Day editor on screen (would they do that for anyone else) for people to fire hate mail off at, they also covered the story on Close Up that night. And again, I ask if they would have done that, if one of the protagonists didn’t work for them.***
Agree, it felt quite surreal seeing the Breakfast show being used for her personal revenge mission. I can understand they would be sympathetic to her as a colleague, but it seemed inappropriate.
In terms of Woman’s Day, I’m sorry but it is news. Mau has made a very good living as a high profile media figure, and inevitably was going to attract interest in her personal life.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
” You have no right to dictate to others what is right or wrong based on your pious beliefs. ”
He has actually. Its called freedom of expression, and Christians are due that right just the same as anyone else. You can reject his dictates or succumb to them as you wish, but there is no law that stops him from expressing his point of view.
There is no law that prevents him from saying “I think that what you are doing is wrong or immoral”. In fact Progressives do such things all day every day. Kris is merely the other side of the coin, and in either case, you are free to take or leave the criticism.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Progressives like big blouse and his motley crew of twisted creeps are far more dangerous to society than the left wing liars. The enemy within eh dime etc..etc..
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
I agree, Bob R. I feel sorry for Ali Mau, but it’s not exactly in TVNZ’s charter to act in this capacity. Besides, most people won’t care she’s lesbian except for a handful of Christian men who probably lust after her “natural use”.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Archival footage of Kris K attempting to convert the ungodly at Kiwiblog.
I’m the bloke that passes him the scotch bottle just before the end.
The rest of you heathens can work out who you are without any help from me.
Vote:
February 18th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
ISeeRed 5:33 pm,
I think your inability to discern who the intended target audience is is the real issue – as we’re talking ‘epic fails’.
And I think you’ll find that while Christians in the NT (versus Jews in the OT) aren’t instructed to ‘stone homosexuals’, we are still to preach that homosexuality is an (biblical) abomination. The fact that homosexuals (as are all sinners) are given a reprieve until they physically expire is actually the act of a benevolent God who provides opportunity to repent up until the point of death. After that the die is cast for all eternity.
But as you believe the God of the Bible is a “non-existent deity” then I guess you have no issues to be concerned with.
Vote:Good luck with that.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Alan Wilkinson 5:38 pm,
You mean like the secular progressives did when they changed the law back in 1986 with the homosexual law reform?
I have never talked about legislating morality – but I sure as hell will stand against legislating IMMORALITY.
Where’ve you been the last 40+ years, Alan, in a time capsule?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
The simple truth is quoting/following some verses in Leviticus and disobeying/ignoring others of equal divine authority is not credible. Fail.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
***ISeeRed (158) Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
I agree, Bob R. I feel sorry for Ali Mau, but it’s not exactly in TVNZ’s charter to act in this capacity. Besides, most people won’t care she’s l*sbian except for a handful of Christian men who probably lust after her “natural use”.***
Well, there is the fantasy aspect to it. Mau is arguably the most attractive tv presenter in TVNZ history so news of her being with another woman is likely to excite considerable interest.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Craig
please explain where on Narths website they state that epileptics are demonised and that stoning them is an acceptable behaviour?
oh you can’t, funny that.
If you can’t handle the view of the socio-political activist activity in the APA 1973 onwards then sit on your hands.
They changed the manual because of coercion and threat not through science, society is the worse for it.
Kinsey was a pedophile and sadist and had an influence because of the weakness of men and women who didn’t want to stand up for their positions and the traditional science.
http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf
I take it that as a matter of intellectual integrity, you have read the 24 pages.
You are the one who says things are not what they seem, well they aren’t.
http://www.narth.com/docs/spitzer4.html
Vote:Nothing has invalidated Dr Spitzer’s position to date.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
ISeeRed 6:03 pm
Talk about thick, mate.
I’ll try and s-i-m-p-l-i-f-y it for you:
Am I an OT Jew, or a NT Christian? (hint: it’s not the former)
Do I have to make animal sacrifices for sin, or did Christ die on the cross for my sin?
I’m sure this is “casting pearl before swine”, but I’ll try this one last time.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
“Well, there is the fantasy aspect to it. Mau is arguably the most attractive tv presenter in TVNZ history so news of her being with another woman is likely to excite considerable interest.”
Are you SERIOUS?
Even the Seagull kicks her butt.
Hey give me Renee the weather girl or Pippa any day.
When I see Ali it makes me think she belongs in a seedy bar somewhere, drinking cheap scotch and smoking her thirtieth cigarette for the night.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Kris I am sorry brother but you have made a right balls up of this one in my opinion.
Vote:There is no Christian justification for stripping a woman of her children because of her sexual orientation, you are just showing a particular intolerance for certain “sinners”.
The fact of the matter is that Alison’s “sin” is none of your damned business and neither is anyone else’s for that matter.
Christians have a right to participate and comment on societal actions that may affect them, but don’t have any biblical mandate to grab someone else’s sin and splatter it all over them.
You even claimed that Jesus probably agrees with you, stupid words in my opinion, I would be a tad more cautious before presuming upon the opinion of the almighty.
You are showing a fundamental lack of respect for your fellow man & woman, people are right to get angry at you.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Yes Kris. Your God is a very vindictive one. I don’t wish to be connected with him. You can stop praying for me now thanks.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Robert, Oh I wouldn’t go that far she is a very comely woman.
JohnBoy
Vote:Vindictive God, get real mate, He hasn’t changed and never will, it is us who must change, that’s why He sent Yeshua/Jesus to set the bar and show you His love in action.
If you don’t wish to spend eternity with Him that is your choice.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Johnboy 5:53 pm,
May your hovercraft be filled with dead eels, Johnboy.
But I do acknowledge a parellel of sorts – I guess I’ll have to grow my beard back.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Your God MikeNZ is obviously even more vindictive than Kris’s God.
To you I will just say fuck off and take your pathetic beliefs with you asshole.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Shunda barunda 6:21 pm,
If God condemns homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments in the strongest possible terms (abomination), why would you think that He would condone homosexuals raising kids – even their own?
I’m pretty certain I haven’t misrepresented either God or His word in this regard.
Vote:But your ‘opinion’ is noted.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
whatever happened to that judge not lest you be judged stuff?
i gotta be honest, this is the first time ive encountered intolerant religious whackjobs in a long time. watching kris rant, you can see how the church did some evil shit back in the day
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Repent dime and they will pray for you my son.
(If you are all wondering why I am smiling
so much its because I’ve cracked a bottle of gin. 
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Careful dime did you check with big blouse before you said that? ( naughty boy) Johnboy is on mothers ruin.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
MikeNZ 6:26 pm,
I think most of the individuals here are so used to namsy pamsy, luke warm, liberal ‘Christians’ who preach a social gospel, and say that God is a God of love, while ignoring that He is also just, that they just can’t cope when they are confronted by Christians who won’t compromise on the truth of God’s word, and tell it like it is.
Sad to say, this is to be expected when the world looks like the modern church, and the church looks like the world.
Vote:Laodicea be thy name.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Four more doubles and I will start praying for you Dad.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
No wonder i can’t be bothered watching TV1. That’s why I took up blogs. but fuck now you clowns are screwing them up as well. Leave the trash at the TV studio. Oh and then ask Dr Coleman to cut the shit out of the TV budget just likes happening to RNZ. Get rid of the nests of screaming socialists.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Johnboy – give a bottle or three to Miss Blouse and all the other progressive creeps mate I don’t drink the shit as petrol tastes better.
Viking just swing the axe into the lickspittle TV mate.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
are ya just lonely D4J? maybe you should join nzdating and find a chick.
just try and listen when on the first date, dont tell her all your problems, dont ask her to organise your medication, dont challenge her to a fight and dont call her a left wing loon. youll be right
dont aim too high for the first date, look for a middle aged fatty, date her, just till youre back in the game!
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Gotta love the god botherer froot loop nutbars like KK and MN – how they are so sure, I am going to piss myself on judgement day when nothing happens. Well, I wish I could, but there ain’t no god there ain’t nio judgement day, their grave will be as cold as mine. Dead. Nothing to see here, move along.
They cannot offer a single shred of evidence that their god ever existed, let alone that he is still around.
Maybe IF this world was created by a god, it was by a junior god as a science project and he’s long since forgotten about it.
I will say one thing, however, for our Muslim brothers – at least they ar honest in their condemnation of homos and their desire to kill them all.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Look dime feels leftrightout so blouse inserted you know what and where. Toni is hot and humid while Pipa is happy.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
And of course they are equally honest in their condemnation of their own raped women and their desire to kill them also.
Yep. Totally unbiased those Muslims.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Why don’t you guys who wish to explore and debate the biblical issues re: homosexuality do some independent research via google and leave the rest of us to debate the actual topic, to which my contribution is:
So Ali’s a lessie? Cor.
I always wondered why she broke up with Simon. Such a nice boy and what a great smile he has, all smarmy like… Bet he made a great son-in-law.
Seriously, celebs in general, but in particular the internal NZ lightweights that get that title without any talent whatsoever, bore the crap out of me. Who cares?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
This is the dyke capital of the world reid. Just ask Heather and co. oh and big blouse.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Lets face it reid a lezzie with a 15 inch strap on will always beat a bloke with 6 inches. Even if he is a pretty-boy.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Are all TVNZ males wind up PC Dolls? Lickspittle show pony type wimps. Bring back Buck, Billy T and Fred Dagg now and I buy a new TV.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Well as Elaine from Seinfeld said JB, it’s hard to compete with someone who has 24/7 access to the relevant equipment. No contest.
D4J, yes and no. The one that isn’t, is Paul Henry, in a class of his own, and yes to the spineless rest.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
OK reid, I took your advice, and look what I found.
Police in Mtwapa, just north of the Kenyan coastal town of Mombasa, say they have arrested five men whom they accuse of being homosexuals.
(…)
Bishop Lawrence Chai, of the National Council of Churches of Kenya, said: “This is immoral and we shall not allow it, especially here in Mtwapa.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8512928.stm
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
“K reid, I took your advice, and look what I found.”
Well done LRO.
Now why don’t you just think about it quietly to yourself because that’s not what this thread is about.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
“If God condemns homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments in the strongest possible terms (abomination), why would you think that He would condone homosexuals raising kids – even their own?”
Because Kris “but by the grace of God go I”
So what you are saying is because Alison is a sinner she should have her kids taken from her?
Vote:Where in the bible does it say that homosexuality is worse than other sin?
Why are you victimising certain sinners and not others?
You have opened the door wide for criticism from the likes of LeftRightOut, I suggest you stop digging.
February 18th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Yeah its no contest alright reid. Hell when you get to be 60 its $110 for four viagras to keep the 6 inches up and a lezzie can just go out and buy another strap on if hers goes limp.
You need to be earning MP’s wages to afford drug bills like that.
Anyone know what Trevs up to this week?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
“when you get to be 60 its $110 for four viagras”
Strangely JB you seem to have this at your fingertips…:)
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Are you calling me a wanker sonny?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
“Anyone know what Trevs up to this week?”
Doorman at Klarks birthday. He will king hit himself again and end up on the carpet.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
He won’t need any viagra then Dad. Or maybe he will and a sack as well.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
Kris K – you religious nutjobs are fucked in the head. I lived through 30 years of your shit, enough, and fuck the lot of you.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
It’s a backs to the wall party Johnboy.Dr Hook are playing the freakers ball song and village people are on toilet duties. The biggest freakshow of the century.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
No JB I was wondering if we need to start advocating for an allowance the next time they do a super review.
D4J, was that doorman or doormat?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Looking at the Labour line up Dad I suspect it will be bend over and brace your self with your hands against the wall.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Sorry reid, I meant doormat as Not So Clever Trevor is a well known carpet inspector
How long would Ali and Pipa last at Klark’s bash?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Viagra should be added to the Winston card reid. I think I might vote for him next time round.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Yes I imagine Winston sporting a hard-on might win him a few more votes than he has at the mo…
But we digress.
Perhaps it’s just one of those meandering threads with the occasional insight and incisive rapier-like point that no-one’s ever thought of before, or maybe not.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
“Johnboy – give a bottle or three to Miss Blouse and all the other progressive creeps mate ”
Said by a man who thinks it is the tax payers job to raise other peoples kids if the dead beat dad does not agree with the custodial order.
Do you have a job yet D4J or are you still bludgeing off those of us who work for a living?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Alison Mau. Sorry…who cares?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Get treatment blouse you twisted coward. Many people think you are losing it big time. You are very unwell.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
Anyway…
Back on topic.
This Mau wimin is really starting to piss me off, guess whose face is plastered all over the latest edition of the the NZ womens weekly telling the story of her great friendship with Pipa.
Fucking hypocrisy at its finest.
I hope the sunday papers really go after her now, she simply cannot have it both ways.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
“Perhaps it’s just one of those meandering threads with the occasional insight and incisive rapier-like point that no-one’s ever thought of before, or maybe not.”
Perhaps its just the gin and the viagra and the love and forgiveness that ooze’s from the carefree happy Christians that know they are on the way to salvation. Or perhaps its just that we have run out of vitriol on Alison Who?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
At least Ali knows her stalker. What’s big blouse’s real name?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
“Large Shirt” perhaps Dad?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
“Large Skirt” perhaps Johnboy?
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
“At least Ali knows her stalker. What’s big blouse’s real name?”
Adonis.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Needless to say dime is Aphrodite.
Vote:Get a life creep. Really, get professional help and do as Ms Rich told you to do, before you hurt somebody.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
I mean for God’s sake, here she is on Breakfast today, laughing and commenting about a “magazine” pic of Prince William that was photoshopped and showing another real pic of his thinning hair.
I mean, Woman’s Day are showing the real her.
What’s the difference?
The trouble with these celebs, especially in the lil old goldfish bowl country is that they start to believe that they are immortal and untouchable.
She is toast. Breakdown prediction, less than a month.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
I like Alison Mau and think she is a great newsreader. Whatever her preferences are sexually this does not affect her abilities to perform her duties professionally or as a parent. I also think there are more important issues to be reported on and I am forever hopeful that our news services will give these the attention they deserve.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
She is the one who brought so much attention to this my parading the issue, herself and the Woman’s Day article on Breakfast TV.
I mean, is she just stupid, or very sly and money savvy?
She is an Australian after all.
I mean even Tony Veitch got the message after a while and learned that if he stopped parading himself and his issues in front of TV then media will eventually forget about it and him.
Vote:February 18th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
“If God condemns homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments in the strongest possible terms (abomination), why would you think that He would condone homosexuals raising kids – even their own?
I’m pretty certain I haven’t misrepresented either God or His word in this regard.”
I have consulted with Christian friends: God condemns the sin, not the sinner. Are we not all sinners according to your God?
As such, you are assuming the role of judge (judged her sin as abomination as in the Bible, yes, but it is implied you have further judged her sin as worse than many others, as apparent in your comments that she, and other homosexuals, should not be allowed to raise children), and it appears if you could, you would assume the role of arbiter (re: legislating immorality: many things in the Bible are seen as immoral, few are, for lack of a better word, explicitly legilsated for i.e. the Ten Commandments).
Re: TVNZ assistance. Breakfast is a fluff show, and really is not one that needs to give an air of impartiality and I believe it makes no real attempt to do so. It aims at attention-garnering through its personalities. As such, I have no problem with TVNZ getting behind Mau in this case, as it serves the purpose of the show. If it was the news, mediocre as the reports often are, I would have a problem. Much as I often take umbrage with news stories. Hell, if it was a show that aimed at being more than personality-driven fluff, I might take umbrage, but it’s a show which looks at the week’s stories in the tabloids, so no problem with them taking a side there.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 2:00 am
To be honest, although I’d seen some of the story on Breakfast, I had no idea about Mau’s “outing” until I saw this post. It came as quite a surprise.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 7:48 am
please explain where on Narths website they state that epileptics are demonised and that stoning them is an acceptable behaviour?
MikeNZ: Nice attempt to change the subject, but if you want to make a rather weak appeal to historical authority there’s ample historical precedent for viewing what we’d now recognise as epilepsy, schizophrenia, even migraines as signs of demonic possession. Can’t have it both ways, petal — any more than you can cherry pick Leviticus to do down the fags while handwaving away the much more extensive verses on dietary restrictions, animal husbandry, the uncleanliness of menstruating women (who quite literally contaminate everything they touch), and personal hygiene.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 8:30 am
” I prefer people to reveal their own sexual orientation,”
I prefer to believe its no ones bloody business myself. As for the stalking of the kids… pretty sure we have laws about that sort of thing don’t we?
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 8:49 am
Craig, the quoting of Leviticus is not an accurate Christian position, the “new covenant” that Christ preached supersedes the old covenant established in the old testament.
Vote:The new testament makes it very clear that non believers are not to be judged by Christians.
In other words Alison’s sin is none of our business.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:51 am
“Talk about thick, mate.
Vote:I’ll try and s-i-m-p-l-i-f-y it for you:”
Kris, let me make this simple as you didn’t answer it the last time I asked: Where does Jesus say that lesbianism is wrong? What verse of any of the gospels has a quote from Christ saying that he dislikes homosexuals so much that their children should be wrenched from them immediately. And please don’t quote Leviticus, Acts, Revelations, the Epistles or any other book that doesn’t feature Jesus saying he hates homos. If you can’t come up with a quote then please stop claiming the support of Jesus Christ in your odd crusade against people you don’t even know.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Bearhunter
Logically Kris is being honest and true to his sincere convictions.
The bible OT clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination and therefore that it is not to be allowed or accepted in a biblical God orientated society.
Similarly the NT supports and validifies those scriptures even more so with Jesus stating that not one jot or tittle shall be struck (or some such) so the OT law stood as far as he was concerned for those who looked to it.
AND
He, Jesus actually raises the bar…………..
He states a man who looks on a woman with lust commits adultery (so dealing to the source of our actions). and that applies to all sin…..
Now logically if the OT was validified by Jesus then the OT on Homosexuality is too.
So Kris is being entirely consistent and honest in his dealings regardless if you agree or not.
Lastly
Bearhunter you are the one who is being thick whether deliberately or not I don’t know.
It follows that Homosexuality is not OK in Kris’s worldview, that will includes lesbianism as that is “like to like” as male to male is.
Both attack God’s plan for man and woman and society and that is the original reason for the OT prohibition.
But I suspect you are an educated person and know and understand that already merely attacking Kris to shut him down.
All in all whether you agree with him or not Kris was being true and honest with scripture and concepts and his stating them.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am
“The bible OT clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination and therefore that it is not to be allowed or accepted in a biblical God orientated society.”
No No No Mike, society is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! that is between them and God.
Vote:All of those scriptures are about dealing with the Jews in the old testament and Christian believers (or church) in the new.
You and Kris have no right or biblical mandate to interfere with the free will of non believers, ie removing Alison’s kids because she is a “sinner”.
Deal with the abundant crap in the house of God first and people may listen.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Shunda
When did I state that Alisons kids should be removed from her?
When did I state that I or anyone can interfere with the free will of non believers?
MikeNZ (1229) Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
lastly why did the OT and NT prophets speak out Shunda?
because God wanted to speak to society!
Why can’t Kris be a voice in the wilderness or are you the arbiter of what God can and can’t do now?
On the biblical mandate you are completely incorrect.
Christians have stood for positions and concepts in different societies in the past and we don’t have slavery in Western society for one thing.
Should they have kept quiet because others didn’t like what they were saying?
Kris has clearly and succinctly stated that God who created the world knows what He is doing.
Similarly he knows what is best for us as a society.
Kris K (1584) Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Kris has drawn a parallel between that concept and whether a homosexual is fit to be a parent.
That is his right and logical to his take on the position.
We all live in society and have a say on that society and it’s mores/laws/institutions and that is enshrined in the NZBORA whether we are the only one saying it or not.
Vote:Kris is exercising his right to comment on what is best for society however offensive you might find it.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Sorry Shunda
On rereading what you have written, I must deal to you on this as YOU are totally out of order.
No No No Mike, society is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! that is between them and God.
I am part of society as are us all, we all have input whether others agree with us or not.
Also if we think something is going wrong and we do not say anything then we are as responsible as the perpetrators (of whatever it is)
NZBORA clearly enunciates all of our rights to express and share our views on any number of issues as part of a healthy functioning society.
(For instance, I do not agree one whit with Steve Crowe and his worldview or actions in our society but defend his right to speak even as I oppose him.)
YOU are out of order.
As for the God society thing.
Ezek 33: covers that very clearly for a person trying to be honest with God regardless of what you think or say.
Your trying to shut Kris down is ugly.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 11:58 am
So Mike, what you’re saying is that there are STILL no quotes from Jesus condemning homosexuality. Thought not.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Replying to Bearhunter — homosexuality is mentioned in the Bible a number of times, always in a negative sense. Relevant passages in the Old Testament include Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. In the New Testament some relevant passages include Romans 1: 26 and 1 Corinthians 6:9. So the Bible does speak about homosexuality.
I think the comment about does Jesus say anything about homosexuality is a bit of a red herring really. Jesus was pretty firm on lots of things. He was the guy who said that not only the act of adultery was bad, but also thinking about adultery is sinful. “If your eye causes you to sin then pluck it out”, it’s better to live with one eye on this earth than to be condemned to hell in the next, is a sample of what Jesus said about sexual morality. That he didn’t speak directly about homosexuality is neither here nor there. When he spoke about sexual morality he was very firm, as the previous example indicates.
So as far as we can determine, homosexuality is outside of the will of God. God created us male and female, Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
BearHunter
Jesus said and did not say many things.
http://ldolphin.org/Homo.shtml
Jesus made no mention of homosexuality as a third option for those who might have been “born that way,” nor did He suggest that all have a right to choose their own “sexual preference.”
He did not give us the slightest reason to suppose every individual has a God-given “right” to his or her body, to do with it as one wills.
He clearly believed that marriage, though at times difficult and demanding, is the only relationship where sexual expression meets with God’s approval.
Those who prefer to remain single are to live as “eunuchs,” that is without expressing their sexual desires. This is consistent with the Old Testament norm—for example in Isaiah 56:
http://www.feedhislambs.net/outofheaven/
Scripture does pay attention to sexual behaviour for it shows the heart value underneath.
1 Corinthians 6:9 does say that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God, but it does not mean that homosexual people can’t be saved
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Bearhunter did Jesus say anything directly about rape, incest or domestic violence?
I thought not.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Mike it is not your or Kris K or any other Christians role to judge non believers, Kris suggesting Alison is an unfit parent due to the sin of homosexuality is a condemning judgement and is inconsistent with the gospel message.
Vote:Yes you are a part of society and yes you have a legitimate voice but there is NO mandate for you or any other Christian to start proclaiming judgement on sinners.
It is the holy spirit that convicts people of sin not you or I.
The problem with Christians in this country is they don’t know the difference between a mandate for the church and a mandate for society.
Christians can’t foster a “us and them” attitude to society and then want to be seen as credible participants, it is illogical and it is not biblical.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Shunda — it is an interesting viewpoint that you have, though not one I would agree with. Many of the most famous preachers of all time preached sin and repentance to non-believers. One of the most famous examples that I know is “sinners in the hands of an angry God” by Jonathan Edwards. The text of that sermon is available online. He definitely preaches sin and hellfire to nonbelievers. And his sermon is often seen as the beginning of the great awakening, where thousands and thousands of Americans were convicted of sin and came to Christ.
Regarding the specific example of Alison Mau, I probably would be cautious about saying, she is a lesbian so she’s not a good mother and is not fit to have custody of her children. That seems a pretty extreme stance to me.
However leaving her husband doesn’t seem right. Abandoning her marriage doesn’t seem right. Suddenly deciding she is now a lesbian, seems queer to me. One is reminded of the American actress Anne Heche, who presumably was heterosexual, then was involved in a lesbian relationship with Ellen Degeneres, then married a man, and the last thing I had heard is that relationship ended and presumably she has gone on to be a lesbian again, but who knows?
How is a stable marriage possible, if that is how people are going to behave? What about the children, often cast adrift in a sea of self-indulgent adults? I think the church should speak prophetically into these situations. It is right to get married and it is right to stay with your marriage partner. Although I appreciate your point that we don’t wanna be condemning every person in every situation — I think there is a place to respectfully articulate sound Christian principles — which are ultimately life-giving.
As William Wilberforce was a prophetic Christian voice on the issue of slavery, so there is room for prophetic voices in the incredibly vital area of relationships and sexuality.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
So Shunda
Vote:When did I state that Alisons kids should be removed from her?
When did I state that I or anyone can interfere with the free will of non believers?
MikeNZ (1229) Says:
February 18th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
February 19th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Shunda barunda [February 19th, 2010 at 1:28 pm],
It might be inconsistent with your ‘gospel’, Shunda, I’m pretty sure, though, it’s consistent with the gospel contained in my Bible.
So using your logic; a Christian has no right to say that a pedofile is an unfit leader of a scout club, or of a pre-school centre, etc? Or that a homosexual is unfit to fill the role of chief sensor, or lead the country and pass laws for that matter? Or that a mother/abortionist is in fact murdering one of God’s creations when they abort a child?
You live in a fantasy world, mate.
Are not Christians to model themselves upon Christ? And condemn sin as He did? And tell unbelievers to repent and “sin no more”; as He did? And tell them that if they do not repent they will spend eternity in hell; as He did.
The PRIMARY reason Christians remain on this earth is to spread the gospel message – which includes identifying sin, and telling people they are sinners, and condemning unGodly lifestyles and practices – as Christ did.
And the MAIN way the Holy Spirit speaks to the unsaved is through Christians, Shunda. We are to expound God’s word to them. Telling a sinner that they are, well, a sinner and that they need to repent and “sin no more” is actually how the Holy Spirit speaks to them. Ever heard of the term ‘witnessing’ to the unsaved? And by the way, that includes telling them that God is LOVE as well as JUST.
The church is mandated to be a watchmen on the tower [Ezek 33] and tell society of the pending destruction which will befall it if it continues in its unGodly, unrepentant ways.
Ever heard of Jonah the reluctant prophet? He went and preached to the heathen city of Nineveh – of their sin, their abominable practices, and their need to repent and turn to God. I guess you would condemn him as being ‘judgemental’ as well?
More social gospel according to Shunda.
God’s word disagrees with you:
It is you, Shunda, that does Christianity a disservice, and misrepresents God’s word.
Vote:You need to repent, mate.
February 19th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Shunda
Kris might have added that the church is not to judge the world but very definitely judge those who claim to be (1cor 5,6, matth 18) their brothers and sisters and also to judge themselves to make sure they are in the faith.
On the last day some or all of the saints will judge angels.
We never judge the world!
The world will be judged on their true hidden heart values and the words and actions out of that.
They and the nations will be judged on the way they recieved (or not) Jesus Christ and how they treated Israel and the Jews.
That means all the little words they txt, print and say, as well as the support they give to others covert or otherwise who attack the elect and the Jews and Israel.
In fact there is special judgement for nations who attack Israel or support that.
Who is more loving, someone who keeps their mouth shut and just lets them get on with it or someone who points out what is to come?
Clthiid asked on another thread show me one proof of God.
That proof is the Jews.
What were the first words Jesus would say to a community?
Vote:Go and do like wise.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
So tell me guys, why did Jesus stop the Pharisees from stoning the woman caught in adultery?
Vote:You guys need to drop your stones.
You have no right to condemn sinners, that is the exclusive domain of the almighty.
And before we try and address the sexual immorality in non believers, perhaps we should look at ourselves first.
“The judgement of God starts in the house of God”
I would suggest there is many years of work ahead before we so much as utter a single word against non believers.
February 19th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Any time there is a story on this blog about gay people the number of comments go through the roof.
I love it.
Homosexuality is just so potent.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
And as things are taking a peculiarly Christian bent, let’s explore the well known philosophical and theological problem of evil – and its implications for the existence of God.
That would be enormous fun.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
“So using your logic; a Christian has no right to say that a pedofile is an unfit leader of a scout club, or of a pre-school centre, etc?”
No need, society is not stupid kris.
“The PRIMARY reason Christians remain on this earth is to spread the gospel message ”
Then perhaps you could start preaching a gospel that actually offers some hope instead of a one sided judgemental version, it is supposed to be good news.
“Ever heard of the term ‘witnessing’ to the unsaved? And by the way, that includes telling them that God is LOVE as well as JUST”
Ever heard of being a credible witness? why do Christians think it is ok to circumvent basic integrity for the sake of “spreading the word” People don’t usually reject Christianity because of Jesus, they reject it because of Christians.
“Ever heard of Jonah the reluctant prophet? He went and preached to the heathen city of Nineveh – of their sin, their abominable practices, and their need to repent and turn to God. I guess you would condemn him as being ‘judgemental’ as well?”
Are you for real? Jonah is quite possibly the most judgemental person in the entire bible THAT IS THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THE BOOK!!!! Jonah didn’t want to go to Nineveh because he hated it’s inhabitants, when he eventually went he was furious that God wouldn’t waste the city. The guy was baying for the deaths of 120 000 people Kris!! sounds pretty damned judgemental to me!!
“It is you, Shunda, that does Christianity a disservice, and misrepresents God’s word.
You need to repent, mate.”
I know who my judge is.
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Co-incidentally a meta-analysis has just been released on studies showing the differences between kids raised by heterosexual and lesbian couples.
Here’s a wee summary in the NBR:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/no-disadvantage-having-two-mums-study-finds-117893
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
“And as things are taking a peculiarly Christian bent, let’s explore the well known philosophical and theological problem of evil – and its implications for the existence of God.
That would be enormous fun.”
The Question is, if God removed all evil tomorrow, how long do you think it would be before somebody brought it back?
Vote:February 19th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Any fool who thinks that righteousness comes from belief rather than deeds, is on a one way ride…. and the destination is not “heaven”. This nonsense that someone has to “tell” me about faith is an absolutely certain way to alienate me from ever agreeing with it. Shunda has it exactly right. You do Christianity a disservice.
Using religion as a basis for condemning people is fraught with dangers, and the cause of most religious conflict. Whether you like it or not, the nation’s laws and its society are based on secular considerations of fact and the broadest common denominator of morality…. not the words of some ancient scribbler whose notions happened to be included in your particular version of some sacred tome.
You have the right to assert your opinion of someone’s fitness, but when you base it on your specific religion it is worse than if you had never spoken. Provide facts. Provide evidence. Don’t drag Christianity into it.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:35 am
Wow.
A bit of TV celeb hypocricy and carpet munching has sure created a lot of religious posts.
Did you guys manage to write the new New Zealand Bible while you were at it?
Men are from the South Island, Women are from the North Island and the in betweens are from Stewart Island.
Does this mean there will be a new law making Ali move to Stewart Island?
Man, you God squadders have even made ME feel sorry for her.
At least she has survived in the WEIRD COUNTRY for a few years.
Just weird.
Good luck Ali!
You will certainly need it!
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 8:52 am
For those who want to see what it is like to be raised by a homosexual parent can be like see Dawn Stefanowicz has to say.
I am not saying this is a typical case but worth having a look or even reading her book.
http://www.dawnstefanowicz.org/
Common sense should tell most people not obsessed with liberal ideology that childen are put at higher risk on average when raised by homosexuals particularly male homosexuals. We see with marriage breakups that children are at higher risk of sexual abuse from mothers new boyfriends or live in lovers. This risk is much greater in the case of male homosexuals because of who they mix with.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Good question Shunda
if God removed all evil tomorrow, how long do you think it would be before somebody brought it back?
To remove all evil would mean right now to remove us , as we have evil inherently within us.
Vote:It is the giving in to that that is the problem as has been since the fall.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:45 am
After Jesus, Paul would seem to be the most important New Testament figure, as it was his view of Christ that spread to the exclusion of that of James, Jesus brother, who had adhered more closely to Christ’s teachings. And since Paul shaped Christianity as we largely now have it, it is worth considering that many indications are that he was a man repressing his own homosexuality – a man who is the fulcrum of the Christian belief, to which several in this thread refer.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 10:03 am
So Dawn Stefanowicz says she was brought up in a homosexual household in the 60s and 70s, the 60s and 70s when the only people who led wild, promiscuous lifestyles were gay people because certainly no straight couples used drugs and alcohol, molested their children or exposed them to inappropriate things.
And all same-sex couples raise their children this way so there’s no such thing as same-sex couples who believe in appropriate boundaries for children?.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 10:05 am
Shunda
Vote:When did I state that Alisons kids should be removed from her?
When did I state that I or anyone can interfere with the free will of non believers?
February 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am
cha, are you quoting Dawn or just making things up?
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Cha
I would be interested in understanding Alison Mau’s journey to lesbianism if that is in fact what has happened.
It may be that this is a phase as she has found succour with someone who has shown care and a willing heart.
It may be she has always thought that she has felt or been this way or even her first imprinting experience was with a female.
None of us know.
That she identified as a heterosexual for years and was part of a (I presume) monogamous married relationship is a fact and points to the fact that sexuality can and is a choice, no matter ones physical design.
None of that has any bearing on her love and evident pride in her children with Simon Dallow.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am
#Chuck Bird
That’s the impression her press release gives.
I’m asking you Chuck.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Chuck Bird:
Common sense should tell most people not obsessed with liberal ideology that childen are put at higher risk on average when raised by homosexuals particularly male homosexuals. We see with marriage breakups that children are at higher risk of sexual abuse from mothers new boyfriends or live in lovers. This risk is much greater in the case of male homosexuals because of who they mix with.
______________________
Where is the evidence for these astonishing assertions Chuck?
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 10:42 am
The Christians have not really railed at all against the ‘tabloid’ nature of TVNZ’s BREAKFAST which is a factor in the situation that Alison Mau finds herself. ‘Entertainment’ of this nature, viewers basically watching bad-shit happen to others, is not much different to reading women’s magazines about similar bad-shit happening to others.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Not quite Yvette, MikeNZ wants to know all about understanding Alison Mau’s journey to lesbianism
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Shunda barunda [February 19th, 2010 at 7:28 pm],
Are you for real?!
And you didn’t actually answer the question, either – too hard for you?
So based on your response (I won’t call it an answer) Christians should have no voice on any ‘moral’ issue because “society is not stupid”, and by implication will ALWAYS do the right thing? Unbelievable from someone that identifies themselves as a Christian. I think the OT prophets, NT apostles/disciples, and Christ Himself may disagree with you STRONGLY.
It would be most interesting observing you witnessing to someone. After telling them God is love, and Christ died for their ‘foibles’ (is that too strong a word? – I know the word ‘sin’ would be out of bounds) you wouldn’t have much left to say. I mean you couldn’t mention fully WHY Christ really had to die. And certainly not that without Christ all rejectors will suffer eternal punishment as a consequence.
Once again; unbelievable.
You do realise Christ preached more about hell than He ever did about heaven?
I guess Christ was just presenting “a one sided judgemental version” of the gospel – how unChristlike of Him (whoops).
And while you say that the gospel is “supposed to be good news”, it is only good news to those that embrace its message, and the One it speaks of. It’s pretty much ‘bad news’ for those who reject it. The gospel MUST mention what the consequence of sin is (eternal punishment), or else you cannot communicate why Christ needed to become a man and die for the sins of the world – you effectively cheapen His death, and do disservice to the hearers.
Examples please, of where I am not a “credible witness”, and where I have “circumvent[ed] basic integrity”.
Of course he hated them – they were sworn enemies of Israel – and that was part of the lesson God was trying to reveal to him and us. It’s a shame the book of Jonah stops where it does – I’d love to know what Jonah thought after his last exchange with God where he had more pity for the gourd than he did the inhabitants of Nineveh.
So while we may see that Jonah’s heart was not in it (and God rebukes him for this), the real message is that Jonah was eventually (reluctantly) obedient to the word of the Lord, and His command to go to Nineveh.
Jonah KNEW that if he went and preached to them to repent that there was a high likelihood that they indeed would:
The book of Jonah is actually a message to both the OT Jews and the NT Christians/church.
As a Jew Jonah is representative of the role the OT Jews were to fulfill – to be a witnessing nation to those around them.
In the same way the NT church is to be a ‘witnessing nation’ to those without Christ. We are to obey God’s call on our live to share the gospel; and like Jonah, “[Jon 1:2] Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.” We are instructed to tell the world that “their wickedness is come up before [God]“.
If we disobey then in reality we are condoning to the world falling under God’s judgement, and the blood of those we tell not is upon our hands, and God will hold us accountable for their fate. OT prophets and NT Christians are to be ‘watchmen on the tower’ (Ezekiel 33) and warn the world (Nineveh) that if they repent not of their sin God’s judgement will fall.
Bottom line:
Vote:In truth Christians judge the world when we keep our mouths shut; we condone God’s judgement falling upon them.
Pointing out the reality that someone is a sinner, and identifying their sin(s) and need to repent is the job of those that TRULY represent Christ on earth. Those that claim to be ‘Christians’ but keep their mouths shut have a big question mark over them regarding who they actually serve – for it is them that condemn the world to judgement.
February 20th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Who tells the TRULY mob that they’re the TRULY mob?.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Kris
“Pointing out the reality that someone is a sinner, and identifying their sin(s) and need to repent is the job of those that TRULY represent Christ on earth.”
Just who the fuck do you think you are?
You have NO right to tell the rest of us how to live.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Cha
I guess they notice the others around them picking up stones?
BB
Vote:What did Jesus say first wherever He went?
February 20th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
big bruv 12:16 pm,
If you have a problem with it take it up with God (your maker) – He’s the one whose instructions I am to follow.
If I don’t tell you that without receiving Christ (that your sins might be paid for) you will have to pay for your sins YOURSELF – the consequence of which is eternal punishment – then I am not only doing you a disservice and condoning your fate, but I am disobeying God’s instruction for me to tell you. And as a result your ‘blood’ is on my hands.
I’m just the messenger, BigBruv, what you do with the information is entirely up to you.
But word of warning – if/when you stand before God without Christ you will not be able to claim ignorance. I have done my job, the ball is now in your court.
And while you may disagree – Christians sharing the gospel with you is actually an expression of love, not judgement. We, like God, don’t wish that anyone should suffer for their sins in hell:
As I said; the ball is now in your court.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Cha, I quote Dawn.
“I grew up in a homosexual household during the 60s and 70s in Toronto, exposed to many different people, the GLBT subcultures, and explicit sexual practices.”
There seems to be problem with understanding certain concepts with liberals. Most liberals do not understand the concept of disproportionate. When I say something easily provable like a disproportionate number of homosexuals are HIV+ the liberals try to claim I said something ridiculous like all homosexuals are HIV+ when I have said nothing of the sort.
I cannot see how you can interpret her press release to say, “all same-sex couples raise their children this way so there’s no such thing as same-sex couples who believe in appropriate boundaries for children.
Try reading what I say and not claiming I said something I have not. Homosexuals are more likely to have HIV, live a promiscuous lifestyles, not have the same view of a 25 or 30 year old having sex with some 14 or 15 as heterosexuals. That is not to say all homosexuals are like I describe.
The same parallel could be drawn between de facto and married couples. The children of married couples on AVERAGE do better the children of de facto couples. Please take note I am not saying ALL children of married couples do better than those of de facto couples.
I think it is a shame that too many parents are putting themselves first instead of the children by ending a less than perfect marriage because they find someone they like better. This on average is bad for the children. When that other person is of the same sex it is on average worse for the children.
If I have care of a young teenage boy I would not let him spend a weekend with a couple of male homosexuals. That is not just because of the couple but their friends. I may be wrong but plenty of parents would share my view. This must not be good for boys with a homosexual father. I am sure the boys would be teased at school as well. That may be wrong but that is how society is and it is not going to change anytime soon.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Lutzie, for a start read Dawn’s book. When comes to sexual abuse figures it is hard to get them 100% accurate. Many estimates put the sexual abuse of underage girls at 1 in 4 and boys at 1 in 7. The majority of the girls are abused by a male. Probably at least 90% of the boys are abused by a man. Male homosexuals and bisexuals combined make up less than 3% of the population. One should not need a degree in mathematics or statistics to come to the conclusion that a disproportionate number of boys are abused by male homosexuals.
I have heard the claim that just because adult male has sex with an adolescent boy that does not mean that does not mean that he is a homosexual. That is playing with words. If an adult male has sex with an adolescent boy he is either an exclusive homosexual or a bisexual.
If this if not proof I doubt if there is any proof that would satisfy you. It is funny how many on this blog are happy to accept that Maori are overrepresented in child abuse statistics taking their numbers in the population but cannot or will not use the same logic when it applies to homosexuals.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
“It would be most interesting observing you witnessing to someone. After telling them God is love, and Christ died for their ‘foibles’ (is that too strong a word? – I know the word ’sin’ would be out of bounds) you wouldn’t have much left to say.”
I have no problem in calling sin for what it is: “to miss the mark” and I find most people can actually figure that out for themselves.
And as far as witnessing to people goes, the way we live our lives is the primary witness, a basic level of credibility and integrity is a huge issue for Christians in this country.
“You do realise Christ preached more about hell than He ever did about heaven?
I guess Christ was just presenting “a one sided judgemental version” of the gospel – how unChristlike of Him (whoops).”
And he preached about the Kingdom far more than hell, something almost completely neglected by the church in favour of “hell fire and brimstone” a Kingdom where people have abundant LIFE.
“t’s a shame the book of Jonah stops where it does – I’d love to know what Jonah thought after his last exchange with God where he had more pity for the gourd than he did the inhabitants of Nineveh.”
A shame it ends where it does? why? because it doesn’t quite fit your doctrine? For crying out loud, the book ends where it does for precisely the point I was making.
“Pointing out the reality that someone is a sinner, and identifying their sin(s) and need to repent is the job of those that TRULY represent Christ on earth.”
I repeat, it is not your or any other Christians duty to identify the personal sins of unbelievers it is the exclusive domain of the Holy Spirit to convict somebody of sin. Or do you have little faith in the Holy Spirit’s ability to do this?.
“Those that claim to be ‘Christians’ but keep their mouths shut have a big question mark over them regarding who they actually serve”
Who do you think I serve Kris? be careful brother.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Shunda barunda 2:26 pm,
Only you can answer that, Shunda:
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
It is funny that some Christians and Homosexual activists have so much in common.
The Gay radicals say any one that disagrees with ANYTHING they say are “bigots”, and the Christians say any opposition is “of the devil”
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Shunda barunda 3:11 pm,
And it’s ‘lucky’ that when Christians say that homosexuality is “of the devil”, that they have God’s word to back it up.
It’s the luke warm, liberal ‘Christians’ who essentially give the seal of approval to homosexuality that concern me as much as those who embrace the homosexual lifestyle and push the homosexual agenda.
Vote:This type of ‘Christian’ is little more than an enabler of such ‘lifestyles’.
February 20th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Did you support Destiny’s “enough is enough” parade Kris?
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Hear ye! Hear ye! Hear ye!
Next bout at the colosseum.
Luke warm, liberal ‘Christians’ V Really staunch ‘Christians’.
Winners to take on the Lions!
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
You did warn me Johnboy, but I didn’t listen.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
The second bout if you make it will be the easy one Shunda the lions are really just big pussy cats.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
” You have NO right to tell the rest of us how to live. ”
Funny how Progressives who profess to be soooo liberal, and are always telling others how to live, are never that way when it come to ideas different to their own.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Chuck,
Vote:While Wikipedia is generally not a totally reliable source, this article on the difficulty of measurement of homosexuality in society prevalence and the difficulty of any measurement (for instance of orientation vs incidence is quite a good read.
It also makes an ass of Kris’s obsessive assertions that homosexuality is somehow increasing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation
February 20th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Lutzie 4:02 pm,
The fact that you state that the article highlights “the difficulty of measurement of homosexuality in society prevalence”, and then go on to say, “It also makes an ass of Kris’s obsessive assertions that homosexuality is somehow increasing.”, reveals more about you than it does me.
Do you specialise in ‘idiocy’, or is it just a part time hobby?
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Lutzie
Vote:depends on what you mean by a good read.
The cities charts in US at the end don’t match the earlier figures in the article, they are almost double the census norms, which are not that easy to extrapolate?
People prefer visual chart and stuff in the main, maybe that was the intention of the entry?
here’s another good read perhaps?
http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/Kinsey%20Syndrome.pdf
February 20th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
No, but i’m a dab hand at grammatical errors and sloppy typing
What I SHOULD have typed was: that the article outlines ‘the difficulty of measurement of the prevalence of homosexuality in society, including incidence vs orientation’.
There are many studies mentioned in the article, here’s a wee quote on whether Kinsey’s original research (published in 1948) was affected by sampling bias:
“Paul Gebhard, Kinsey’s successor as director of the Kinsey Institute for Sex Research, dedicated years to reviewing the Kinsey data and culling its purported contaminants. In 1979, Gebhard (with Alan B. Johnson) concluded that none of Kinsey’s original estimates were significantly affected by the perceived bias, finding that 36.4% of men had engaged in both heterosexual and homosexual activities, as opposed to Kinsey’s 37%.”
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
“It also makes an ass of Kris’s obsessive assertions that homosexuality is somehow increasing.”
Lutzie, firstly it is not up to me to debate Kris’s opinions.
I judge whether a person is homosexual by there actions not how they identify themselves. If someone is married and is a closet homosexual they are still homosexual or bisexual. There is no way they they are heterosexual because they identify as being heterosexual.
I would suggest you look at
http://www.mygenes.co.nz/myths.htm
I will quote, ” Gays are 10% of the population. No academic would agree. Numerous surveys in many countries show that (including bisexuals) gays are 2-3% of the population and lesbians are 1-2%.”
Even if one doubles the figure to 4-6% homosexuals are overrepresented in the sexual abuse of underage adolescents.
I do not believe in being Politically Correct when it comes to reducing risk to innocent people be they adolescents or plane passengers. Not every Muslim is a bomber but they are far more likely to be than a Christian preacher wearing a dog collar.
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Love your reading matter Mike.
The census would be a particularly poor way to measure sexual orientation or behaviour. Dedicated research is always better.
It appears that ‘The New American’, which your article is from, is published by the John Birch Society.
And while we know we completely can’t trust Wikipedia, its content is at least moderated by the great mass of its users.
Here’s a little piece of what it says in the introduction to the entry on the John Birch Society:
“The John Birch Society is a far right[1] anti-communist political advocacy group that supports limited government and what it considers to be personal freedom.[2] It has been also described by various sources as an “ultraconservative”,[3] “radical right”,[4] and “extremist”[5] institution. It was founded in 1958 by Robert W. Welch Jr. in Indianapolis, Indiana, and it was named after John Birch—a United States military intelligence officer and Baptist missionary in World War II—who was killed in 1945 by supporters of the Communist Party of China.[6]
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Lutzie, do you think it fair to try and discredit Dr. Judith Reisman because her article appears in ‘The New American’? I believe she is Jewish as well. Does that discredit her research.
I suggest you read what Dr Reisman has to say about Kinsey. Have you reas about what this pervert had done to young children by pedophiles?
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
The elaborate rationalizations for trying to “bring people to Christ” (foist your religious errors on the rest of humanity) are pure sophistry. I have no doubt you believe them sincerely and THAT is a problem, because the lack of reasoning around the actual effects of having people running around proselytizing is the principle reason why Muslims, Jews, Catholics and Protestants have been blowing things up lately, and the principle reason for Crusades and Inquisitions. To you, because I am not “saved” (by your definition, and other CHRISTIANS will disagree with you about what makes someone saved or not) I don’t really have rights and my own opinion doesn’t really count.
Which is why the lack of thought is dangerous. You define things so that you must do things to other people. The moral consequences of THAT error are all too evident.
This is where my tolerance ends. I will not tolerate someone like you telling me what to think. Most Christians are tolerable and tolerant… as are most Muslims and Hindus and Budhhists and Vegans and Pagans and Nerds. Those who try to alter the faith (or lack thereof) of others without invitation, invite his infernal majesty to the conversion. It is a most unchristian thing.
You have a strong belief, but you DON’T know. Your proof is in your belief, not in evidence, in words that were written by men, not by a God.
Knowledge is another level entirely, and its absence means that you have NO right to push your belief anywhere but within yourself.
BJ
Vote:February 20th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
lutzie
I own his books and have read them
tell me how do you stimulate a child under 2 yrs to orgasm 20 times in a day?
kinsey claims to have done.
Today he would be locked up or killed as a peado.
are you condoning him?
Vote:February 21st, 2010 at 12:00 am
Hey Mike, reference for the above, please. Book title, date of publication and page number, otherwise we will know you are just making it up!
Vote:February 21st, 2010 at 12:02 am
And for the record, isn’t Ali just drop dead gorgeous? Getting unhitched was certainly good for her looks, if nothing else! And what she does in her private life is none of our business!
Vote:February 21st, 2010 at 6:59 am
Luc, Mike has already provided a reference.
http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/Kinsey%20Syndrome.pdf
Just Goggle “Was Alfred Kinsey a pervert?” and see how many references you get.
You cannot get around the fact that over half and many underage boys are sexually abused as girl and the vast majority of these are abused by men. These men are by defination are either homosexuals or bisexuals regardless of what they identify as. Therefore a disproportionate number of adolescent boys are sexually abued by homosexual men. That does not mean that all homosexuals abuse boys but a disproportionate number do and those that do so often.
If homosexual want have sex with each other they are free to do so but I object to them promoting their lifestyle to adolescents.
Vote:February 21st, 2010 at 2:57 pm
Chuck were those stats vetted by the department of home land political correctness?
Statistics have no place in a politically correct society!!
Vote:February 22nd, 2010 at 10:23 am
No Shunda
Vote:they would never ever allow her writings as they paint Porn and Homosexuality in a poor light.
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:24 am
LUC
Vote:I think shes looking a bit tired and old actually.
that doesn’t mean she isn’t a comely woman.
but.