An MP told a joke – shock horror
September 8th, 2010 at 10:00 am by David FarrarStuff reports:
Building Minister Maurice Williamson cracked jokes about Muslims at an awards ceremony – just days before he accused Kiwis of racism over foreign ownership.
So what. First of all learn the difference between a religion and a race. Secondly cracking a joke about a race does not mean you are a racist.
I hate this desire some people seem to have, to turn MPs into bland robots that never show any personality or sense of humour.
Mr Williamson climbed on stage to present two awards and asked MC Oscar Kightley, the Samoan star of Sione’s Wedding, if his “papers were in order”.
Heh.
He went on to tell jokes making fun of Islam. One asked: “What is the difference between Muslims and Kiwis? Muslims get to commit adultery and get stoned, Kiwis get stoned and commit adultery.”
Some jokes can be hateful, or nasty. This was not one of them.
Mr Williamson also quipped about the weather being “Shi’ite in the morning and Sunni in the afternoon,” a reference to the two main denominations of the religion.
Heh. Personally I regard it as a good thing when one can tell jokes about a religion.
I once told a joke about how in heaven you get a better car, if you have never committed adultery, and the punchline was about Father McDonald rolling along on a skateboard. Does that denigate Catholics – of course not.
Kightley, a member of the comedy group Naked Samoans who write the animated series bro’Town, said he thought the remark directed at him was “a bit fresh”.
“I guess me, as an MC, was a natural target. He said it on stage. It didn’t really offend me. The last person you’d expect it from is the minister.”
Kightley said Mr Williamson’s performance seemed to go down well with the crowd. “As I recall he was very funny and the crowd liked it. I doubt he would have made those jokes in another setting.”
Of course, you choose your setting. In celebrity debates, almost anything goes. If you are an MC at function, you get to push the limit a bit. If you are the graduation speaker at a capping ceremony, then lave most of your jokes at home.
At the time, he didn’t think Mr Williamson had been drinking. “Someone told me later he’d had a few, but I didn’t think he was stumbling or slurring or anything. He was in fine fettle. But he was definitely in a nice and relaxed and jovial mood.”
I wasn’t at that event, but have been at many debates and the like with Maurice, and I can testify he does not need a drop of alcohol to let loose with a barrage of jokes.
Mr Williamson refused to comment last night. “I’m in a meeting about the Christchurch earthquake with a whole lot of people and can’t actually talk to you,” he said.
When approached later by a reporter and asked repeatedly about the remarks he walked away.
As he should. MPs should front up and answer questions on policy, on issues of substance. But why give any credibility to such a nonsense story.
Other guests said they believed Mr Williamson was drinking at the ceremony.
One said he thought the remarks were “not appropriate”.
“To be honest he was trying to be a bit of a lad.
“I couldn’t tell you he offended anyone. It was a load of builders. It was right at the end of the night and there was quite a lot of alcohol.”
So, no one actually claims they were offended. The worst quote they can find from someone is Maurice was a bit of a lad, at a conference of builders.
The problem with stories like this, is they turn MPs into dull automatons, who never say or do anything.
Related posts:
- Apology demanded for jokes
- A joke I was told today
- Shock horror: SST turns on PM
- Shock horror – no law broken
September 8th, 2010 at 10:06 am
“The problem with stories like this, is they turn MPs into dull automatons”
The reporter seems like they are the dull automaton. Another non-story, yawn.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Totally correct. Let us fight for the right to laugh!
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:10 am
I’ve just blogged about this (linked at the GD thread) – what a beat-up! Williamson is a very funny speaker when he ad-libs. I heard him do the same thing here in Wanganui at a Pharmacy Guild conference years ago where he got stuck in to Bolger, Shipley and Peters, and had the after-dinner crowd rolling in the aisles. Had he delivered his prepared speech to that audience, it would have gone down like a lead balloon.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:12 am
You don’t want to make muslim jokes. It is a matter of personal safety.
Theres are few rules in this world, don’t cheat on your taxes, don’t say bomb at an airport, and don’t make muslim jokes if they will be made public.
These extreme muslims will come at you with samurai’s, cut off your head, and dance on your corpse.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:14 am
If you think that Muslim citizens are not Kiwis, there’s no problem.
If you think that a government Minister should think that way, there’s no problem.
If you think the international media reporting this “joke” (and they will) does no harm to New Zealand, there’s no problem.
But I disagree on all three counts.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Two problems here.
1. We expect people to lead by example. What example does this send? Sure you, I and some readers of this blog will see this for the harmless joke it is but other fringe elements take it as justification for their more obnoxious actions.
2. Williamson should have been well aware that if this got into the media it would not be ‘a good look’. Zero points for smarts from someone who I have previously had more respect for.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Maurice sounds like the sort of guy I’d like to go drinking with.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:16 am
This is desperation spin, DPF. While one person’s joke is another person’s insult, and while Morrie’s jokes are amusing, you are drawing a very long bow in playing this down. For example, when the North Shore mayor invoked a Jesus comparison in an Easter email to other councillors, the righteous outrage and indignation spewed from the right wing. However, when a right wing minister makes ‘muslim jokes’ and ‘coconut jokes’ the ‘non-story’ line spews out with the same alacrity.
[DPF: The Mayor seriously compared his persecution to Jesus. He was not joking - that was the problem.
He did not make a coconut joke. If he had used that term, then you may have a point.]
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:25 am
I found it offensive, seriously thats the funniest Muslim joke he could find?
And it was more offensive to kiwis refering to our serious drug problems paiting us to the world as a nation of addicts. Not a mention of that.
Rightnow, I’ll join you, I have a few jokes that he could use… not in ear shot of the precious little petal of the PC media though.
What a fraken non-moment this is.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Tom – who cares.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:29 am
If you say so, David. I thought we were a few decades on from making illegal immigrant jokes about brown folks.
I wouldn’t say I was offended either, but the routine seems lame and irrelevant.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:32 am
The US military is concerned about a pastors determined cause to burn Korans citing un needed pressure on troops abroad.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/4096997/Quran-burning-riles-Muslims
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Hey look you’re wrong again then Russell.
Should be getting used to it. This is western civilisation, taking the piss out of everyone is a way of life and you’d laugh if Billy T said it.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:34 am
True Russell
Overstaying Samoans is so lame and old to publicly comment on.
Just goes to show how old our troughers are.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Can I remind the panty wetting Tom and Russell brigade that DPF also defended David Fane’s jokes at a celebrity roast.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/it_was_a_roast.html
Sensitive wee petals aren’t you? It may shock you but sometimes people deliberately tell jokes. Unfortunately some people prefer to look for a malicious motive rather than get the joke.
Don’t watch this if you’re a sensitive PC petal:
Vote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W4RmZ-C8cU&feature=related
September 8th, 2010 at 10:38 am
I’m still trying to figure out if the Muslim/Kiwi joke is more offensive to Muslims or to Kiwis?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Its only bad when conservatives do it Right.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Russell – Your comments hit at the heart of this story
If you did not like the joke – Don’t laugh
But you can’t offended by it surely
Media is running around looking for someone to take offence. I am sure they will find someone
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:44 am
That’s a joke?
It would appear to be more a statement of fact to me.
Or is that where the humour is?
Can you help me understand please Pete?
Should I be offended or should I seek government advice?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I’m disgusted at that Kiwiphobic bastard
Vote:Someone call the race relations commissioner
September 8th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I don’t think it’s even that Murray, it seems to be a state of mind for some people that they look for anything that might be possibly offensive to somebody (usually somebody else). I doubt that any ‘moderate’ Muslims would even be offended by those jokes. Perhaps some Islamofacist types might want to cut Williamson’s throat from ear to ear but we don’t have them in NZ do we?
Vote:And while Oscar said the joke to him was ‘a bit fresh’ he has probably made many more ‘fresher’ jokes himself. Who’s complaining about the characterisations on Bro’ Town?
September 8th, 2010 at 10:49 am
I can’t really be bothered with the details. But the fact it’s a joke isn’t moral magic. People should be prepared to stand by the jokes they make.
He asked Oscar Kightley if his papers were in order? Seriously?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:49 am
I posted earlier on the potential of the unimportant bible bashing book burner in provoking mayhem in the world.
In this case the the catalyst moves a little – to the reporting. It would be far from impossible for some harmless joke telling (doesn’t matter if it’s really funny or not) to be reported and promoted to the world and stirring up a hornet’s nest. In the modern world it’s become the norm for little things to be blown right out of proportion.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:52 am
If Oscar Kightley thought the jokes were a “bit fresh” what double standard does he apply to analysis of the race-based humour he delivers via BroTown?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:54 am
“What is the difference between Muslims and Kiwis? Muslims get to commit adultery and get stoned, Kiwis get stoned and commit adultery.”
It is put more concisely, and, I think, better, in Yes, Minister, in the episode The Bishop’s Gambit, where Sir Humphrey notes (I think in his journal) that “in Arab countries women get stoned when they commit adultery. In Britain, they commit adultery when they get stoned.”
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Well, he’s dead. But there are good jokes about Pacific Islanders that aren’t nearly 40 years old. Oscar Kightley tells them, about himself. Maurice apparently didn’t have any of those, or any great lines about white files from Pakuranga. That might actually have been funny.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:56 am
It’s the staleness that’s putrid.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:56 am
The leftard fun censors have arrived.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Yes, the same Oscar Kightley who’s a Member of the New Zealand Order of Merit. Nothing like a reminder that he’s still a foreigner, eh?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:04 am
3-Coil said
Indeed 3-Coil; it isn’t racist when the brown fella tells the joke, only when it’s from the white fella. I wonder what Jeff da Maori would say – probably not even, eh!
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Do you have to try hard to be so uptight, or does it come naturally?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Inventory2 – if the joke had been at the expense of Christians rather Muslims would you have been as tolerant ?
Ignoring religion, stoning is a particularly offensive thing to be making jokes about: it is barbaric and cruel.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Russell, its not ok to be a humorless bore, but you keep doing it. Its not ok.
Has a left politician ever said a dodgy joke that got wussell so uptight? or is the problem that lefty pollies just are not funny anyway?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:15 am
“Nothing like a reminder that he’s still a foreigner, eh?”
He’d probably be more offended by a snivelling pasty-faced “liberal” like you desparately trying to demonstrate your racial virtual by pretending to take umbrage on his behalf.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Mr Williamson climbed on stage to present two awards and asked David Farar, the Jewish blogger, if his “papers were in order”.
Heh.
He went on to tell jokes making fun of Judaism. One asked: “Why are Jewish men circumcised? Because Jewish women won’t touch anything unless it’s 20 percent off!
Some jokes can be hateful, or nasty. This was not one of them.
Beauty/comedy/offense is in the eye of the beholder, eh? Sense of humour is required at all times.
Also – love this (from your Wikipedia entry);
Farrar is an honorary life member of the Young Nationals, due to his many years of service to the organisation.
He survived some media calls for his resignation as National Secretary when he was arrested for his part in a joke press release, along with fellow Young National Michael P Moore, announcing that maverick National MP Michael Laws had been assassinated and that the Prime Minister was one of over 10,000 suspects. The joke press-release was made with the New Zealand Police logo. Farrar and Moore were subsequently arrested, but not convicted of any crime as they chose to participate in a diversion scheme for first time offenders of minor crime. The infamous fax and related media items are now displayed at the Backbencher Bar on Molesworth Street in Wellington, across the road from the Parliament.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:30 am
“What’s the difference between muslims and kiwis”
That is the offensive bit, right there. Are kiwis and muslims mutually exclusive groups? I suppose as an MP, Williamson doesn’t feel the need to represent all people in New Zealand, only the ones he considers kiwi enough.
If he had said “what is the difference between muslims and bogans”, that might have made the joke funnier.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Maurice Williamson just made me appreciate Paul Henry …..so much more.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Whoops – I like it a lot, I pity the fool who hasn’t cultivated a robust sense of humour. PS – did you read DPF’s post about David Fane’s potentially anti-semitic remarks?
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/it_was_a_roast.html
ephemera – up to you if you think that bit is offensive, I see it more of a technical error.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:46 am
This is as much about taste as humour. I fully agree that politicians should be allowed to be human. I did not personally find the dig racist or offensive but I’m not Samoan. I did find it unfunny. The stoning joke is another matter. Considering what is going on in Iran at the moment, this is in extremely bad taste. If nothing else, it calls Williamson’s judgement into question.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:46 am
I reckon Monty Python got it spot on with this little gem
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:50 am
db ” The stoning joke is another matter. Considering what is going on in Iran at the moment, this is in extremely bad taste.”
Oh poor you, you got your panties in a bunch. What exactly makes it bad taste? If it helps raise awareness that some barbaric morons on the other side of the world still think it’s appropriate to torture someone to death then I’m all for it.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:57 am
db…what sanctimonious crap..Right Now..hear hear.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
db has it in a nutshell. I don’t want to see a humour police but I do expect our elected representatives to recognise certain standards of taste.
Making jokes about stoning has all the good taste of making jokes about stillborn babies or the Nazi holocaust. Would have hoped the Minister was classier than that, obviously not.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
I’ll repeat it.
Vote:That Act of God on Saturday morning destroyed churches and left brothels intact.
I am revising my thoughts on religion.
September 8th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Oh dear, Muslims might be offended. How sad. I would burn a koran myself if I hadn’t already thrown it in the pig pen.
I also didn’t mind Piss Christ or the Condom Virgin Mary either. If Gods existed I figured seeing as they are all powerful they wouldn’t get hung up on that sort of thing from their pets.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
People who don’t like humour tend to like hate speech laws.
It helps them control the populace,keep them silent and in fear and makes them feel good about themselves.
A priest,a rabbi and a vicar walk into a pub……..
Vote:And the publican says………..
You bunch of bastards ,where’s the imam. (I just made that up)
September 8th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Finance Minister: What’s the difference between a Jew and a bread roll?
Health Minister: I don’t know, what is the difference between a Jew and a bread roll?
Finance Minister: A bread roll doesn’t scream when you throw it in the oven.
Both: haw haw!
[DPF: My God you really are smearing Maurice to suggest that is within 1 million miles of the joke he told. ]
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I agree that those jokes aren’t racist but it isn’t racist to strengthen foreign ownership laws either like this sad excuse for a minister professes. That’s similar to what these reporters are doing, politicians use sensationalism as well as the press. It’s like when everyone calls you a racist when you want less immigration, which I do. Saying that you want less immigrants isn’t discrimination to any race, all it is wanting to keep New Zealand’s interests our own, and developing a culture uniquely New Zealander, which already includes multi-cultural values, a great thing. Economic independence is paramount in a world where a new world order seems more and more likely.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
How sick is the joke that is sharia law where the female gets stoned (to death) while the man gets lashed again. Those Muslims know how to treat a sheila when they wake up.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
The sickest joke is how many people are more upset that a joke is made about barbarians than they are about the poor woman being brutally murdered by them.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Sigh …
Your reading comprehension appears to be roughly on a par with your ability to write a sentence in English. I did say I wouldn’t have been offended.
I said it was a lame joke. It was.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Oh hell — my humble apologies. I hadn’t realised we’re now benchmarking Ministers of the Crown on the same scale as drunk stand-up comedians. Good to have that cleared up. Thanks.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Now I know why the left is so seriously fucked up, it’s in their genies, they missing a humour chromosome.
But seriously all the bullshit about this joke is the left trying to dictate the conversation, screw the a holes. We need more of this not less, all the crocodile tears are simply attempts to silence those who don’t bow the progressive brainwashing program.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Speaking of jokes that fall flat, here’s Time: Why Israel Doesn’t Care About Peace
I especially liked this bit on the peace process:
Cut us, do we not bleed cash?
But perhaps it’s only a lame joke by an international magazine and therefore unworthy of more than five comments by concerned left-wingers.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Thank fuck we live in a fair, open democracy where our ability to speak our minds are not governed. Well, apart from the Electoral Finance Act that was so proudly supported by the same loons that are now upset about this. Wait. That makes me reconsider this.
Are we actually living in a fair, open democracy when so many fucking socialists want to control what we’re allowed to say?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
RightNow’s on to it: socialists puffing themslves up with faux outrage at one joke at the expense of the Muslim faith, while remaining curiously silent as evidence of Muslim-initiated atrocities comes to light every day.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Oh poor Russell, skewered by your own poor reading comprehension immediately after criticising someone else for their own shortcomings. Hypocrisy really is the forte of your ilk isn’t it?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Pascal – who’s saying anything about control?
It was a sh!t comment, some people are condemning it as such. No-one is talking about controlling free speech or people’s thoughts. Except you. Where’s that strawman taking you exactly?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
RRM:
Yeah?
There was some dispshit earlier in the thread saying “I don’t want to see a humour police but I do expect our elected representatives to recognise certain standards of taste. ” That person seemed to be heading down that track by wanting to set standards of taste for an MP’s behavior at a function he was invited to.
Maybe I am drawing a long bow here, but the inference seems clear to me. MP must behave to a certain standard. Controlling? I think so.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Well, clearly, parsing irony clearly isn’t your strength. Dude, that was awesome.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Not at all. I found that sentence highly amusing. My genie laughed his ass off too.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Oh it was irony? You actually meant the opposite of what you said? Brilliant! I haven’t been so impressed with your literary endeavours since you stopped writing the computer column in the listener.
Vote:Mind you, I still think you didn’t understand the comment.
September 8th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
No, Pascal.
To expect more from our elected representatives -and for them to recognise decorum- is not an issue of ‘control’.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Y’know, I don’t think “MPs must behave to a certain standard” is an altogether crazy idea …
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Is this a facebook support page for Maurice Williamson
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Thank you. I’ll be here all week*.
*No, actually, I won’t
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Yeah, but expecting that that standard to be the same when addressing a roomful of lubricated builders as say, opening a new hospital is batshit insane.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
* well can you at least recommend the veal?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
“Maybe I am drawing a long bow here, but the inference seems clear to me. MP must behave to a certain standard. Controlling? I think so.”
Of course they bloody have to be acheive a certain standard. Otherwise we’d have them giving free money out to their mates’ finance companies.
Hospitals/dunk builders = different audiences? Sure, but unless the Chatham house rule is in play then they should all know any comments are game. Makes them dull robots? Perhaps – if they’re thick they should keep to the prepared script. If they’ve got the balls and the brains to back them selves then they should be as free as they like to go off.
Williamson has balls, but I’m not sure about the brains.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Oh Dear the anal retentives are out in force. Poor little petals all offended and looking to be offended.
Well We of the RIGHT are the right place for them. I just love to tell the most offensive jokes and watch their thin lips curl and their noses go up in the air like you just farted in their holy presence.
The LEFT and the MSM are a target waiting for incoming. They deserve everything they get so heres to Maurice and everone else who will prick these little pompous pricks balloons
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
“Williamson has balls, but I’m not sure about the brains.” – that’s a pretty fair question.
Vote:While I will defend these jokes I also recall his performance in the house when questioned about expenditure for new IT systems for Building and Housing. He didn’t seem to have been particularly well advised for his response, and it did cause me to think he’s one of yesterday’s men.
September 8th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Beyond the righteousness which is bleeding out everywhere is it not true that virtually ALL jokes are made a someone’s (human or animal) expense?. It is fair game to take the mickey. I bet there are many ‘offensive’ jokes going around Christchurch right now as people seek to relieve the tension and get humour back into their lives. One of the Kiwi’s best attributes is not having a thin skin; perhaps this has changed after a decade of the fun police.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
If the left are “missing a humour chromosome” then the right are missing the ‘integrity’ one over this issue. DPF, the mayor was no more literally comparing himself to Jesus than Morrie was seriously suggesting Oscar is an illegal overstayer. Both were clearly jocular. Williams was attacked and pilloried and by the right wing. Williamson is defended and excused by the right wing. Only the media condemned both. The issue for me is not the subject matter of the humour, simply the blatant and self-serving inconsistency of the response.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
“Well We of the RIGHT are the right place for them. I just love to tell the most offensive jokes and watch their thin lips curl and their noses go up in the air like you just farted in their holy presence.”
Speak for yourself.
I tend to consider that sort of behaviour disgraceful whom-ever it’s from. Just because there are political disagreement doesn’t mean there must be an intention to cause offence just for the hell of it – or – in your case it seems for some sort of warped self-image/compensation effort.
..
..
..
Oh wait a second, I forgot I’m on teh internets.
As you were, you brave, brave man.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Jack McDonald:
What Jack said, and then some. I don’t care whether Williamson thinks cribbing from decades-old “Yes Prime Minister” episodes (thanks, FE Smith, I knew I’d seen that “stoning” line somewhere) is “funny”.
I do care that he called me, and thousands of other patriotic NZers, racists for wanting to protect our country from exploitation by foreigners of any hue, religion, sexuality or anything else. And I also care that our increasingly dopey and ineffective PM is “relaxed” about that.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Tom G – wrong mayor. Oh wait, my bad, I get those two confused with their carry on. Williams wasn’t making jokes for an audience though, he seriously compared himself to Jesus
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Television New Zealand is in discussions with Maurice regarding his post political career and there has been talk of a Saturday Night Live Show starring Maurice.
Vote:Tvnz are confident of attracting a reasonable size audience considering the outrageous cost of staging the show but are sure that Maurice’s style of humour has a following.
September 8th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Rex; “And I also care that our increasingly dopey and ineffective PM is “relaxed” about that.”
Damn right, what the hell happened to his ‘ambitious for NZ’? Useless.
No plan + no clue + supported by numpty’s like Brownlee + hobbled by clowns like Hide = failure.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
RightNow 1:33 pm,
… heard the one about the Imam who buys his pork from the local Christian butcher?
When asked why he replied, “I just don’t like the taste of kosher pork … and we were fresh out at the local halaal butchery.”
PS Apologies to all Jews and Muslims – I don’t need to apologise to Christians as we eat pretty much everything.
Vote:PPS Apologies to all the Catholics – by inference
September 8th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
trout 1:56 pm,
Since when have animals been elevated to the state of personhood?
I must have missed the memo.
You gweenies really do live in an alternative universe.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
As a Kiwi Muslim, I thought it was funny and not at all offensive. Context is everything when it comes to humour – if he had told the same joke at a mosque, it might be a bit different.
The joke about Oscar was a bit unnecessary. Just because someone is of a different colour doesn’t make them less Kiwi than anyone else. I have had many instances of people asking me how long I’ve been in NZ, and it turns out that my family has been here for more generations than them…
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Good to get your perspective Cobra. I agree about context, and also the manner in which it is delivered.
The Oscar joke was old and unfunny, not surprised if Oscar wasn’t amused or was offended, but it’s easier to just “laugh” things like that off.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
Rex Widerstrom said
Ah Rex, I think the PM is just a tad preoccupied just at the moment
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
I thought it was only old Stoneface Clark who banned jokes. Lighten up. Anyone’s jokes taken out of the context of the speech, the food and drink etc would fall flat. What a prissy society we are becoming when we need commissioners to tell us what we can say and think – and hordes of people from the IHC to ethnic groups to churches all panting to be offended. As long as they don’t bug my house I guess I am still free to laugh at any human frailty or foible however un-PC. Naughty me.
Vote:And Rex, you seriously need a lie down when you froth at the mouth over a political natural like John Key. Have you had your eyes closed all weekend?
September 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
No, part of Key’s appeal is that he doesn’t come across as a “natural” politician, he seems more normal.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Having seen Oscar on TV describing how he has a laminated card in his car, with the pre-printed answers to questions police ask him every time they pull him over, I am left wondering if he died a little inside when that crack was made about his “papers”.
I’d have though a longstanding MP would have better sense.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Inventory2 suggests:
Well he took enough time out from whatever the hell it was he was doing to think about the question he was asked about Williamson’s insult (the calling those against foreign ownership “racists” one, not this storm-in-a-teacup one) to say he was “relaxed” about it. It would have taken just as much time to conclude he wasn’t so relaxed, and that many (indeed most) of those who protest foreign ownership do so not from any racial bias.
The quake is providing Key with handy cover for all sorts of things, I2. But in reality there’s not much he (or any PM) can practically do unless he’s going to don overalls and pick up a shovel, so let’s not be cutting him slack with the “preoccupied” excuse, hmmm? He’s still PM, he still has responsibility for the entire country, not just one part of it.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@Cobra Kai
As a kiwi muslim, how do you feel about the joke being framed by Williamson, about the difference between kiwis and muslims?
Surely you would feel offended by someone who thinks you can’t be both?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Maurice Williamson – “Are your papers in order ”.
Oscar Kightley – “Go fuck yaself ya cracka ass bitch before i fuck you up something chronic ”
pause for effect…
Oscar Kightley – “Chillout Morrie ya humourless twat, I’m only kidding, I’d only fuck you up a tad”
cue uproarious laughter…or not ?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
And you dumb fucks wonder where stereotypes come from?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Perhaps it’s an age thing and we boomers have brought up a generation of over-sensitive ninnies who have to have their delicate little hands held in case someone says something nasty.
Vote:I have loved listening to the oldies in ChCh who are stoical, matter-of-fact and sorting themselves out. The voice of what I thought was the true NZ character not all these dainty flowers who can’t even dig themselves a hole to poop in unless someone ‘official’ tells them what to do.
And words fail me when I read about the 31 members of the same whanau in one of the support centres so I can’t even raise a smile much less think of a joke.
Now, what can I find to take offence at? There must be something to piss off a 60-something old duck.
September 8th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Talking of humour.
Apparently the players at Manu Utd are having a Cars are the Stars event amongst the full Adult Squads. There are 3 full squads.
Quite a lot of folk. To be inclusive they have each to turn up for a car treasure hunt in an old car from the 80′s.
According to Fanzine. Ryan Giggs has got hold of a lovely Citroen GS, Rio Ferdinand has chosen a SRi Cavalier, and Wayne Rooney is apparently thinking of coming in an Escort.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
ephemera,
In case you hadn’t noticed, it was a joke, not some sort of policy statement on behalf of the government stating that kiwis cannot be muslim. The joke was told to a limited audience, many of whom would have drunk enough that they would not remember it the next day. If he had told an Irish joke comparing the relevant intelligence of an Irish and kiwi character, should all kiwis of Irish descent suddenly be offended?
There are a lot more issues to be worried about as a Muslim than a joke like this.
CK
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Guy Fawkes 4:32 pm,
Boom, boom
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
I wonder when Nanny McKey will tell him off for this and say he was just trying to tell an unfunny joke.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Freedom of speech has to include the right to tell bad jokes. This is far preferable to the Islamic approach of killing cartoonists you don’t like.
Hurtful jokes reflect poorly on the teller, so there’s an incentive to be careful there.
The overstayer joke could be said to be in that category. If enough people think so, then it will hurt Maurice more than it hurts Oscar. If not, not.
That’s the beauty of free speech – it’s self-regulating.
But as for hurting the feelings of those who brutalise others (like Iranian Islamist morons who stone women to death), I’m all for it.
If that joke helps to highlight a barbaric regime’s cruelty, then it serves a useful purpose.
Cobra Kai’s comments are a useful reminder that it is possible to be Muslim and have a sense of humour and proportion.
None of this would be an issue in the UK, where humour and satire are better understood and lefty bedwetters get short shrift.
To make the front pages over there your taste needs to be far worse than Maurice Williamson’s – like Prince Harry going to a party dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper or his dad wanting to be a tampon.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
A joke’s a joke, fair enough. Although I think Maurice the Minister is perhaps letting his hair down a little too far, but that’s just my opinion.
As contributors to Sakineh Ashtiani’s legal defence fund, we have access to an organisation who has her son’s email address, so we have sent the details of Maurice’s little joke to that organisation and asked them to pass it on to her son.
We also provided Maurice’s email address so he can express his appreciation at the support Maurice has offered and invite him to contribute to her defence, as well.
If I was her, on death row, I would think it funny.
But will Maurice now contribute to her cause with some jangling stuff?
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
The other thing is that it takes a certain amount of courage to tell a joke. You don’t know if it’s going to get the response you want, but you have a go anyway.
Far better to try and occasionally fail, I reckon, than play safe and be thought a bore. As any speaker knows, it’s very hard to please every member of your audience, but if 90% laugh you’ve done OK.
If the other 10% includes a bedwetting lefty journalist, that’s life.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Hey John, can I hit you up for a bit of gold for Ashtiani too?
Come on, you can afford it, and it might just save her life!
I can send you the link.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Fascinating to see Luc grandstanding on this single instance of a woman’s mortal plight. Commendable in itself, but conspicuous in its isolation. A while back I challenged Luc on his total silence on the matter of Islam’s barbaric treatment of women, and in particular stoning. It took a couple of threads, but this was the result (emphasis mine):
Perhaps Luc has seen the light. It’s possible – I believe in miracles.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
This tweet says it all, really.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Luc, I usually think you’re on a different planet but in this instance I’m on the same page. Post a link and I’ll chip in.
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
P.S – the empirical evidence says you’re still wrong on climate change
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Which is good news…
Vote:September 8th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Luc, I’ll be giving any spare money to a place where I can be confident it will have some effect. Right now that’s Christchurch, not Teheran.
I’d hope poor Ashtiani’s plight will cause you to come out and say that all cultures are not created equal.
Nothing will change until the rest of the world stands up and says loudly and clearly that Islam is and will remain GROSSLY INFERIOR to other cultures for as long as the minds of large numbers of its members remain in the Middle Ages.
I say this as someone who has walked open-mouthed around the Alhambra Palace in Granada in awe at the magnificence of a Moorish palace that was constructed in said Middle Ages.
In other words, there’s no doubting the intelligence of those early Muslims and their wondrous achievements in architecture, mathematics, science – as far as I could see vastly superior to the achievements of my British forefathers and other Europeans of the age.
But the slavish adherence of so many Muslims to a barbaric’Old Testament’-style book (not to mention founder) does them no credit and it is totally appropriate and necessary to say so and keep saying so until they change.
Otherwise your laudable legal appeals will be money down the drain.
Have the courage to say, “I believe in tolerance, but I will not tolerate those who are intolerant. I regard your religion, as practised in Iran, as an affront to the human race.”
If we say that loudly enough, we will save millions of Ashtianis, not just one.
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 12:08 am
Obviously in the keen as mustard Lefty assimilation programme, calling a group “Haters and Wreckers” is a huge laugh.
Socialists the World over. Communists with a new Logo and USP. Still the same old, same old.
Stalin was never known for any lighter moments. Just a nasty killer.
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 3:13 am
The other thing is that it takes a certain amount of courage to tell a joke. You don’t know if it’s going to get the response you want, but you have a go anyway.
not really…
…all it takes is a huge sense of entitlement and privilege from being a gov’t minister whose snout is firmly planted in the public trough and having swilled a few bevvies, courtesy of the taxpayer, decides to grow a pair, show their disdain for the public at large and spew forth their true opinions
it’s fairly obvious this williamson fucker has a low opinion of coconuts and ragheads and the fact Key supports him on this issue in trying blow over it maybe hints at some sort of deep seated anti muslim bias John Key harbours ?
Not to mention, we already know Key’s views on Pasifikans, inclusive of Maori, with his oh so hilarious cannibal joke of recent times and the renegement on the Tuhoe Urewera reparation claims.
So do any of you jonkey fanboys here know if his ‘Lazar’ bloodline, through his mother, is of Jewish ashkenazi or semitic origins, bearing in mind that one’s views on the zionist occupation of Palestine and ones affinity/tolerance towards arabs from a jewish perspective can be coloured by the perspective of whether you’re essntially a colonist ( ashkenazi) or have claims to indigenousity through being semitic with ancestral ties to native bedouin culture ?
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 6:41 am
GROSSLY INFERIOR to what?
I think that is the wrong approach. It’s more likely to have a similar affect to telling all Catholics they are GROSSLY INFERIOR, or telling all Protestants they are GROSSLY INFERIOR, or telling all lefties or righties or Maori or Irish or parties that have very public internal spats or any group they are GROSSLY INFERIOR – people tend to get defensive and retreat more into their own group when someone acts all SUPREMELY SUPERIOR.
If you come across as SUPREMELY SUPERIOR you will reinforce memories of colonial oppression and arrogance and exploitation.
It is difficult to force people to change the beliefs they have grown up with and always lived with.
What should be done is more people should stand up and say loudly that some archaic barbaric practices have no place in modern societies or in modern religions. And more importantly, more people should demonstrate by example that they won’t stand for poisoning to death or electrocuting prisoners. And they won’t stand for supplying and using things like clusters bombs. And they won’t stand for firing missiles at wedding parties and family homes. And they won’t stand for indiscriminate firing of crude missiles over the fence that shouldn’t have been built. And they won’t stand for making up excuses for invading countries that are not an immediate or real threat.
People should also stand up and say loudly that democracies with a clear separation from religion result in better governance and are fairer for all people, when all those in government will work together rather than bitching and fighting and undermining each other.
It is far better to show what is better by example than to look down your nose preaching about inferiority.
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 8:22 am
At the end of this, what about his comments about Muslims weren’t true?
John
Have the courage to say, “I believe in tolerance, but I will not tolerate those who are intolerant. I regard your religion, as practised in Iran, as an affront to the human race.”
hear hear
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Mike, if I say to you that your religious beliefs are based on nothing but hearsay and multiple generations of interpretation I have said nothing untrue, but it’s not going to change your beliefs, is it?
“I believe in tolerance, but I will not tolerate those who are intolerant. I regard your religion, as practised in Iran, as an affront to the human race.”
I agree with this. I also think some religious based campaigns frequently pushed here smack of intolerance too, are are an affront to human decency.
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 9:17 am
I seem to recall Farrar have a “shock horror” moment of his own a few years back when a newspaper cartoonist depicted John Key with a big nose. I guess for Farrar it depends on the religion.
Vote:September 9th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Pete, you’re right – it’s better to stress the positive than the negative.
But those who make excuses under some notion of cultural relativism for cultures or religions that entrench barbarism as normal just help to entrench those beliefs.
Vote:September 26th, 2010 at 5:07 am
yes this minister needs to be shut down, totally wrong of him to suggest new zealanders get stoned and then commit adultery, outrageous!
Vote: