The left’s view of earning
November 24th, 2010 at 4:46 pm by David FarrarA commenter on Red Alert on Monday commented:
As for John Key in the state house; no, his getting out doesn’t prove that everyone can do it. It does prove that it’s possible, not impossible as socialists argue, to do it without the government giving you a hand out. No, not everyone can do it, some people are stupid, uneducated and lazy, and (again) that’s life. Why should I give my hard earned money to those people? They don’t deserve it, they didn’t earn it. Left wingers are very generous with other people’s money, and if statistics on who donates the most to charity, lefties or righties, are anything to go by…not very generous with their own.
Colonial Viper responded:
Its not your money. When you go to work and earn an income don’t make the mistake of thinking that you are doing that for yourself either, you are doing it on behalf of your communities and your country.
I hope that is clear to everyone. Your money, is not your money. You don’t work 40+ hours a week in a job to earn money for yourself and your family – you do it for your country.
Related posts:
- Earning less by being in work
- Why not pay-per-view?
- A critical view of KiwiSaver
- ANZACs most generous
November 24th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
and who is this mysterious Colonial Viper …????
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Clare Curran said he/she/it was very intelligent. so there
But I would venture the suggestion that s/he/it wasn’t born in NZ
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Just to point out that you are pretty much the last person in the entire country to be in a position to point fingers at the comments thread of someone elses blog.
[DPF: Danyl - I'm attacking the views expressed, not where it was expressed.]
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
fuckin socialist scum…societies cancer.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
She must have been taking the piss when she said that. Or perhaps she was comparing it with the quality of post made by mallard – which continue to be a constant source of hilarity.
I wonder if goff ever reads red alert?
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
@tankyman
Someone with way, way too much time on his/her hands, given how regularly comments are made.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@ Danyl Mclauchlan – at least he has the ball to let them stand and not moderate / delete the hell out of anyone he disagrees with.
Censorship is alive and well on red ablurt comrade.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
@ V – well its not like anyone with a job will ever agree with CC and co is it. (min wagers dont count)
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Yeah, DPF, I wouldnt do that if I was you. Lord knows the last thing you need is for D4J to become your unofficial spokesperson. The Standurrred has tried that line of attack for ages, and they fail each time. Best you not legitimise their mud slinging technique.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Well why do you put yourself amongst that group if you have a problem with it?
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Well why do you put yourself amongst that group if you have a problem with it?
Your logic is flawless.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I find red alert pretty nauseating, but come on David, I thought that you were better than this. Your post would be like me taking some of the raving abusive madness that is sometimes put in the comments here and claiming that it summarises the right’s thinking. Hardly realistic.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Ah, I see that Danyl has already made this point!
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
the Viper isn’t the only reader of redablurt who thinks that way either .. at least he/she has finally come out and said it
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Just to point out that you are pretty much the last person in the entire country to be in a position to point fingers at the comments thread of someone elses blog.
The difference is Danyl, DPF typically only responds to comments on here and in fact I have only seen him remove a part of a post (which typically consists of a small edit) when the comment is defamatory. Red Alert on the other hand routinely removes the entire text of posts that they don’t agree with and threaten bans on those posters.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
When you think about it, that is all a socialist thinks about, “the power over you and your money”. They even admit it themselves. Very sad.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Hmmm. So what is being inferred by some here is that ordinary contributors to a discussion should be ignored and the dialogue should be restricted to just those who run the various media sources.
If somebody makes an interesting point then discuss away as far as I am concerned, whether or not the point is of interest will obviously be perceived differently.
So if say, Rex was to make an interesting point in the comments then DPF should go ahead and address it. Doing this does not obligate him to consider a comment by D4J in the same way, or even to compare it.
In saying that, this comment by Colonial Viper is not surprising or particularly revelatory.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
This is a bizarro world norightturn post. Very unbecoming DPF.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Just wait, sooner or later Colonial Viper and most of the remaining RedAblurt contributors will be demanding that their brain and personality-transplants be publicly funded.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
Colonial Viper,
The word you’re looking for is “slavery.”
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
I think we can now all agree that Redbaiter speaks for the right in this country.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
So, anything I buy with the money I earn on behalf of the community must, by definition, belong to the community.
This neatly explains why someone broke in to my father in laws car last week, to recover some community property!
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
I wonder which MPs in parliament agree with this statement. Certainly no MP on red alert came back and expressed disbelief at this statement. Certainly Cullen and Clarkula would have endorsed this socialist stupidity .
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Heh, just looking down the thread – the idiot tried to tell someone raised in east Germany he didn’t know what communism was.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
That was a commenter on a blog. That’s not the same as the official opinion of people who own the blog. It is possible to find comments as bad here (and not deleted either).
Maybe what the commenter meant was that we owe something to the society in return for the society being cooperative in upholding a system that allows to earn and keep money – while people here take it for granted, there are places where doing business in an honest way is next to impossible. I myself feel much better about paying taxes in NZ than when I lived in a place with a worse Transparency Int. rating.
But “Not owing any of one’s earned money” is extreme. Frankly, as a newcomer, I do not know if Red Alert is Labour’s mainstream or just populated by its far left. I hope it’s the latter. I always was “moderate left”, but on RA you get called a “rightie” for saying that you like the 90-day trial period because it helps people like you – and I do not mean by another commenter, you get called that by an MP.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
My opinion is that Colonial Viper is the old roger nome. But say the name fast after a few pints of beer and the real meaning becomes clear; Colon wiper !
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
The word you’re looking for is “slavery.”
Correct, and the socialist Colonial Viper momentarily let the mask slip to reveal the true intent of the socialists, and that is to force us all into poverty and dependence on the government whilst the power is held in the hands of the few. Everything else is smoke and mirrors, this is the outcome that the liberals desire.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Colonial Viper said the following in response to Mr Infinity:
Also I suspect you don’t understand communism very well since you seem to be throwing labels around left and right like there’s no tomorrow.
Mr. Infinity then replied:
I grew up in East Germany in the 1970s, my family made it through the wall and came to New Zealand after the for a better life. I understand the mentality of the communist very well, thank you very much. And the idea that it’s not your money, it’s everyone’s, falls right in line with their teachings.
I believe my kids would describe this as pwned.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Well why do you put yourself amongst that group if you have a problem with it?
Your logic is flawless.
Danyl….for awhile now its been obvious that you are an appeaser of what is objectively evil and destructive.You are akin to a priest of the Catholic church who doesn’t molest kids himself but stands a little way away with pursed lips saying nothing when others do it.Shame on you….
Colonial Viper’s post is dripping with the poison of altruism…the anti human, collectivist dogma of self sacifice and slavery….and the rest of us are moral licensed to avoid, and if nessessary destroy such a person if they act against us….our rights to life and liberty and just our basic humanity allows us no other choice if we are to live and prosper as human beings in the fullest sense.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Surprised? Nah. This has long been mainstream left-wing thought. It allows them to rationalise it after they seize control of everything not nailed down as economic “policy.”
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
I’m almost the same age as John Key, we grew up in the same suburb and were at high school together. I’m not as wealthy as him now and I’ve no reason to begrudge him his wealth (though I suspect I’d support changes to financial systems that would make his particular path to wealth a harder track).
I am in the top 5% of NZ earners.
While I’m very much a supporter of the common interest and cooperative efforts I’m not so ignorant as to believe the idyllic nonsense of the much soaked in intellectual fantasy socialist this opinion of communal ownership of all wealth proclaims.
There are good sane arguments supporting progessive tax rates but denying people have a claim on the fruits of their particular labour and exploitation of opportunity is as sane as believing a dog can be a Vegan and is as stupid for much the same reason people hold such foolish ideas.
Ideologies are demands that reality conform to personal plan, they are a wail that the world be as one describes it not as it is.
Dogs are carnivores, people are largely self interested. It is not unreasonable to demand concessions that improve communal conditions from people but it is absurd to demand people subsume all their interests in the communes.
Communism, Jingoism, Fascism, all demands that we disconnect our brains from our spines and let our ill fitted same size boots lead our steps.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
I can’t work out if this is honestly held belief or seriously kick ass satire
Holy smokes that’s good. No wonder you quit, Danyl. You simply cannot compete with that!
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
The people direct the government. The government does not direct the people.
The society that allows a person the opportunity to earn an income is created by the people, not the government.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
My main question is why the fuck would anyone read what the Labour party has to say?
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
And that points to the nub of it really. Viper, and like minded, don’t actually preach that the fruits of labour belong to all. They preach that the fruits of the labour of the designated poor, belong to each of those poor, but that the fruits of the labour of those who are not designated as poor belong to society to distribute to the poor. By any objective definition, that is hypocrisy.
(Having commented, along with others, on the lead posting, I find it hard to get too emotionally incensed by Viper’s comments tonight.)
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
I wonder what National’s view of our earnings is?
Tax cuts! Yippee! Oh wait, “revenue neutral”??. WTF kind of tax cut is “revenue neutral”?
National and Labour; two sides of the same coin.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
I love it that Danyl thinks he speaks from a higher level than this blog. I remember when Danyl blogged with pure joy and ecstasy when Sir Ron Trotter died. Danyl is the last person who should be pointing any fingers back at anybody. I wish DPF stopping giving this oxygen thief the time of day.
Vote:November 24th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Danyl….for awhile now its been obvious that you are an appeaser of what is objectively evil and destructive.You are akin to a priest of the Catholic church who doesn’t molest kids himself but stands a little way away with pursed lips saying nothing when others do it.Shame on you….
Colonial Viper’s post is dripping with the poison of altruism…the anti human, collectivist dogma of self sacifice and slavery….and the rest of us are moral licensed to avoid, and if nessessary destroy such a person if they act against us….our rights to life and liberty and just our basic humanity allows us no other choice if we are to live and prosper as human beings in the fullest sense.
Brilliant!! Well said James!
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Look at all the 3 and 4 post posters leaping to defend Red alert.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 8:00 am
David this is such a pointless post.
Obviously this idiot doesn’t represent The Left. He’s an extremist. Which funnily enough exist on the right and left (and everywhere else in human culture: basically any belief or activity has em religion sport drugs food etc)
I vote “left” because I disagree less with their policies than those of the “right”. Why can’t people be more level headed and not so devotional to their beliefs?
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 9:12 am
PJS123
The problem is that it’s not Colonial Vipers belief, the state owns his belief and he’s stupid enough to believe socialism works even though he can’t name a single country where it hasn’t ended in economic ruin.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Tanky man said…
Who is Colonial Viper?
Tanky CV is the idiot resident at Red Alert. There is no surprise there as his idiotic and dumb comments are tolerated by the RA bloggers, since they can’t argue with logic & knowledge, so they let him do their job.
I had exposed this idiot Colonial Viper (aka Loota) at Red Alert many times in debates on a variety of topics, from economics, science, engineering, global warming, etc,… That was when I used to post comments there – now I had been told by Clare Curran that I am a troller at RA in which I doubt she knows what a troll is – ahem Spud.
He posts many messages on just any blog post at Red Alert and used to knocked him over in just about every debate I had with him (he ended up gone quiet and not replied to my counter-arguments on a specific blog topic). The funny thing was, that he got knocked down on many occasions, but he still wanted to come for more knocks from me similar to what Mike Tyson did to Trevor Berbick in their classic heavyweight championship fight. He thinks he is a McGyver when he debates @ Red Alert, but he is just full of sh*t, but RA bloggers are too dumb themselves to see that. They like a barking dog on their side.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 9:43 am
I think we can now all agree that Redbaiter speaks for the right in this country.
touché!
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 10:06 am
I think we’re all missing a far bigger story here.
Instead of focusing on a random commenter’s idiotic statements about income not belonging to individuals, how about an **MP** who doesn’t believe that one’s health is not the business of the state?
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/11/24/food-uk-govt-gets-multi-nationals-to-write-policy/
HT to Liberty Scott!
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 10:32 am
scrubone
From that link;
OMG, I wonder if I tell her that next time I’m sick I’ll make myself wait so long before seeing a doctor that I die… will that convince her that personal responsibility is acceptable.
How stupid can people get – health is absolutely a person responsibility…..
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 10:47 am
Perhaps Colonial Viper would like to comment on the fact there is a relief fund established for people to donate to the people of the west coast. We have welfare and the glorious state and this fund must be massively repugnent to him because individuals are being asked to spend the govt’s money on things the govt is here to take care of.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 10:54 am
A Colonial Viper, in case you’re wondering, is the defence craft from the tv series Battlestar Galactica. I can understand why that commenter likes the handle as everyone in that tv series is told what to do by a military commander and paid nothing. It’s their duty to humanity to keep the Battlestar running.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 11:15 am
umm this is a personal blog. DPF posts things he finds interesting.
this isnt the blog of a political party (standard/red alert).
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 11:24 am
dime
I think this blog belongs to the state and DPF is risking having his access rights revoked if he continues to claim it is his own.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
All those folk saying that the commenter on RedAlert does not represent the Left in NZ… seriously?! You can say that with a straight face?!
I think it is perfectly representative of how extreme the Left in NZ has been allowed to become. Just because most Leftists would not be stupid enough to express these sentiments so bluntly doesn’t mean it is something they do not believe themselves. I believe most of them in fact do believe that “Its not your money. When you go to work and earn an income don’t make the mistake of thinking that you are doing that for yourself either, you are doing it on behalf of your communities and your country.”
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
BlairM
I agree, it is evident when they start talking about tax cuts: The rich were given a tax cut….
No, the people who pay the most tax were given some relief….
They just don’t get the concept that tax is taking money from people and they insist that a tax cut is the govt giving people money…. They will never get it though – if they were smart enough to comprehend the fundermental difference they wouldn’t be lefties.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
I have a nice firearm that originates from a communist state. If that stinking piece of commie shit would care to visit I would be more then happy to demonstrate the operation of said firearm. I mean after all one must share the joys that communism has fostered upon the world.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
I wonder if the left realise the fact that higher earning people that pay income tax pay proportionally more of their money in tax than lower earning PAYE people.
This view gets distorted however when you take into account the shear complexity of the tax system we have now. Due to the rediculously complex tax laws, we often find that the richest pay proportionatly less tax as they have the money to pay for accountants and lawyers to structure their affairs best to beat the tax man. Therefore the biggest proportionate tax burden falls on those earning about 20 to 50% above the average wage. And John Key and his nasty nats appear to be making the tax laws even more complicated with more exceptions being added.
If we wanted to get the fairest tax that is also the most efficient, we would be best to introduce a simple, no exemptions flat tax rate, preferably on consumption. If we aren’t brave enough to do that, then we should at least look at a complete restructure and simplification of the current tax regine… not just dicking (or tinkering as John Key would say) around the edges.
An example of the most rediculous aspect to our tax/welfare system is working for families. We have scenarios where you earn less money after tax if you earn more money before tax. This is not just diminishing returns, it is f&ckign retarded. EG, If my family earns $74000 before tax and I have one child I am entitled to a $5 a week payment, if I earn $74001, I get nothing.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Just read the post. I want to find out who that Colonial Viper fellow is and Shawshank him in the ass for that comment. Makes me RAGE!!!!!! I’m lost for words that there are people out there who actualy say stuff like that out loud.
Vote:November 25th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
One can read about Colonial Viper’s comments @ Red Alert on this blog post.
The reality for one West Auckland solo mum
His comments are shocking and typical of an uneducated person. His economics understanding is exactly the same as his Labour lefties comrades, very poor & always wrong.
Hehe, I didn’t know that toilet cleaning & rubbish collection university degress (or post-grad/post-doc) and qualifications are being taught in this country. There is no doubt in my mind that Colonial Viper (aka Loota) graduated with such degrees , Masters or even PhD. I wondered if such toilet cleaning & rubbish collection qualifications are being run in secret by one of our 8 Universities.
Vote:November 26th, 2010 at 8:29 am
I’ve had many a debate with CV, he loves to tell me that my crazy ideas that a fiscally responsible, small, liberal government based on a system of capitalism backed by sound money is, well, crazy..!
Vote: