General Debate 21 August 2011

August 21st, 2011 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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107 Responses to “General Debate 21 August 2011”

  1. iMP (2,386 comments) says:

    Don’t send a B Team…ever!

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  2. Nookin (3,352 comments) says:

    iMP
    Maybe, maybe not. Slade needed the time but, after yesterday, you’ve got to say that Cruden is back in the picture. The backs looked good but still need time on the field to sharpen up. Dagg, Toeava and Kahui were worth their place. The problem seemed to me to be the fact that some of the loosies were too slow to the breakdown and we lost too many turnovers. I think the test was sacrificed but in saying that they could have won.

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  3. Michael (910 comments) says:

    Don’t send a boy to do a mans job. And if TMOs are going to comment on a forward pass before the ball crosses the tryline…

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  4. dog_eat_dog (781 comments) says:

    Today reinforced why I no longer bother getting up to watch rugby in South Africa and haven’t since 1995. To have such a massive officiating blunder only three weeks away from the World Cup speaks volumes about Paddy O’Brien’s “living on a prayer” referee management approach. Heads should roll over that.

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  5. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    It’s all going off in Libya right now.

    Winds of change blowing hard.

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  6. Nookin (3,352 comments) says:

    Michael
    The TMO was wrong but he dis ask the ref if he wanted to know. Ref gets the biggest boot in the bum.
    DeD. I didnt think that it was Paddy’s parade anymore. Isn’t Lyndon Bray the head honcho?

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  7. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Transparent media spin or profound stupidity?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/5480025/Standards-stand-off-heats-up

    This long article gives two stats:

    Ministry figures show 2046 schools submitted charters and of the 1959 already analysed, about 80% comply with the requirements.

    And while it mentions the allegation that a quarter of all schools are refusing to submit a compliant charter about four times, never once does it give the total number of schools in NZ.

    Once upon a time a decent sub-editor would have torn the journo a new one and put them back onto court reporting until they learnt their trade properly. These days, it’s more likely the journo actually had the figure in the original article but the editor took it out since it “didn’t suit the tenor of the story.”

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  8. dog_eat_dog (781 comments) says:

    Nookin – Oh God, it gets worse! It should be obvious that the hands-off approach to refereeing isn’t working at all, and it has been for some time.

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  9. Nookin (3,352 comments) says:

    Actually, refereeing in the republic has been quite good since 1995. Remember that welsh git (Rowlands?) who did the cavaliers matches? He was so bad that people were convinced he was on the take. The 1970s tours were blighted with appalling decisions – some by ex players turned refs (Mans). Justice may have been done last night (it was a forward pass) but the error was so basic that the two involved should be banished to referee preschool.

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  10. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    reid – slightly off-post, but mrs kk works with a few school that have been ‘listed’ as objecting to National Standards but they’re quietly implementing them in any case. Most of opposed have found reasons not to attend training, yet when she takes invidivual teachers through the basic concepts there’s usually interest, and a bit of surprise at what all the fuss is about.

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  11. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    So; who played their way OUT of the RWC squad last night; Messam? Toeava? Slade? And can someone sit the selectors down in front of a replay of Manawatu’s demolition of Waikato!

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/08/all-black-review-sunday-21-august-2011.html

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  12. MT_Tinman (3,202 comments) says:

    A good referee will attempt to get things right.

    Last night’s fellow did exactly that.

    I2, the standard of last night’s Manuwatu/Waikato game was so far below test rugby reading anything into Cruden’s performance would be silly but I agree the boy has talent, just not that sure of his decision making.

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  13. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Yes I know kk. This is my point really. That the media is desperately beating up a non-issue and who knows why they’d do that? It’s not as if most journos, like teachers, are lefties, is it?

    If it wasn’t so critical I wouldn’t really care but on this issue fact is, lefties are wrong and we are correct. Human beings respond to competition, this is what created us biologically and evolution-wise and competition is what shapes our lives. There is nothing wrong with competition, at all. This doesn’t mean, as lefties believe, the world becomes a vicious, dog-eat-dog battle for existence. That’s fucking mental. But that’s really what they think it means. The fact you can point them to the world, right here right now and say, it’s not like that now is it and all we’re doing is recognising biological reality, means nothing to these profound idiots. But it is critical, for educational improvement, that children and taught how to compete and that means both understanding you don’t win all the time and that’s just part of life, it’s no big deal, as well how good it feels every now and then to have the occasional win. That’s not evil, harsh, unjust, or anything else negative, but fucking lefties, just refuse to look at it like that.

    And the worst part is, the idiots truly believe they’re doing the kids a favour. Talk about mental.

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  14. tom hunter (4,887 comments) says:

    Michael Ramirez gets brutal with Obama in today’s cartoon: Yoo Hoo Guys! Mind If I play through?

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  15. mattyroo (1,029 comments) says:

    If I was to actively downramp stocks in a listed company, with the intent of taking it over, and then went on to do so, I would be looking at jailtime.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10746463

    Hopefully these guys will have to live by the same rules.

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  16. tom hunter (4,887 comments) says:

    I pointed out the other day that sarcasm does not usually work in a blog environment. Still, I was tickled by this shot at it, which imagines an alternate present:

    And as far as the rest of the world goes, I still fondly recall candidate Obama’s spot on criticism of the way President Bush launched wars in a willy-nilly fashion, ignored the War Powers Act and ignored the powers of Congress, as well as the wishes of the American people. Why couldn’t we have elected that guy? Instead, we watched as President McCain launched an attack on yet another nation – Libya – sneering out of one side of his face that we would only be there for days. Right, Mr. President. It’s been nearly 200 of them so far.

    That’s why I’m calling on all good Democrats and progressives to continue the efforts which have been underway since 2003. Take to the streets with your signs and your bullhorns! In 2004 there were more than a million of you in Manhattan shaking the very pavement with your cries for peace. And this is no time to slack off in your efforts.

    So I’ll meet you all in Times Square tomorrow morning for the massive protest march against President McCain and his endless wars. And I’ll bring the donuts. See you there!

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  17. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    Cunners on Q@Arse,

    doesn’t like “rich,white ,old men……”
    wants to feed the “kids of South Auckland…”
    and isn’t even sure about what power company he’s with.

    This racist ,out of touch ,political class elitist and his party will never get my vote.

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  18. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    Reconditioning and rotation?

    Recondition my Zephyr and rotate my pigs, boys.

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  19. RF (1,402 comments) says:

    In his dreams Goof intends to form a new Govt after the election … I remember another Labour idiot wanting to do this after they lost an election years ago. The one and only Mike Moore !!!. Someone had to remind him that National won.

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  20. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It was probably a good move to send the second-stringers to SA. If that team played again next week I’m sure the combinations would work better. They were competitive at the least, and no one really played themselves out of contention for the RWC squad.

    There are still going to be a few players who could be considered unlucky come Tuesday. Who will be the unluck outside backs to miss out? The two main weaknesses remain back-ups for Carter and McCaw. I wonder if the selectors will see Weepu as genuine cover off the bench for fist five. He is a player I think you could rely on at the critical points.

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  21. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Someone had to remind him that National won.

    RF the point whether publicly acknowledged or not, is not and never has been to win this election. That prospect has never appeared all throughout this term. Der. The point is to minimise the loss, cause they would lose all the young blood cause most of the top listers are old has-beens that prevent any traction from being gained cause the public associates them with Hulun and apparently, they really didn’t like her govt much at all, once they saw what she really did to the country which they only saw once her constant propaganda barrage ceased after she left power.

    Lefties fail to see this themselves cause they think it’s biased media that’s the root cause of their polling difficulties, fucking idiots.

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  22. tom hunter (4,887 comments) says:

    Together with the rest of the collapsing soufflé that is AGW there is the ongoing failure of the Green Economy. Tim Blair covered some of this at this link.

    The only Australian company which manufactures solar cells is closing the operation. Silex Solar has announced it will stop making the cells at its western Sydney facility, with 30 jobs to be lost ..

    Silex has blamed a “very tough market” for the decision, but the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union is pointing the finger at the New South Wales Government. Union state secretary Tim Ayres says the Government’s decision to cut the state’s Solar Bonus Scheme is a major factor.

    Now Russell Mead takes a look at the US version in Feeding the Masses on Unicorn Ribs:

    Evergreen Solar Inc., which received unknown amounts of green stimulus funds on the hope that it would create “between 90 and 100 jobs” two years ago, filed for bankruptcy this week, $485.6 million in debt. Their Massachusetts plant once employed 800 people; in March it was replaced with a factory in Wuhan, China.

    Together with worse examples. He then makes a caustic, joking remark on potential Green jobs that might work:

    There are perhaps some green jobs that would be exceptions; we could eliminate all forms of welfare and food stamps and offer the unemployed minimum wage jobs pedaling stationary bicycles hooked up to electric generators, solving our budget, poverty, obesity and energy independence problems all at once — but these are not the jobs either the President or his supporters have in mind.

    Au contraire on that last point. In the comments section a reporter points out the awful truth in a piece he wrote in 2010:

    Detroit Non-Profit Opens Green Gym — DETROIT, Jan. 19 /PRNewswire/ –

    The Green Gym is the nation’s first workout facility created specifically for homeless men, women and children.

    In addition to standard fitness equipment such as two weight machines, boxing bags, and a treadmill, 10 Green Revolution Technology enabled stationary bikes will generate electricity to be redirected into Cass’ power grid. Over one year of four daily classes, a full class of 10 at the Green Gym can generate enough power to light 36 homes for a month, or three homes for a year!

    Then the writer just gets plain cruel:

    I try to acquire a cynical enough cast of mind to emulate the three-corner billiard shot of sheer lunacy necessary to come up with ideas like this, but I always fail. I guess that’s why I’m not sucking down a paycheck as a “community organizer.”

    Still, I’d love to have the video rights to filming the wretched of Detroit pumping frantically on stationary bikes like so many sweating hamsters in their wheels to light up those lucky three houses. I could sell it on the Internet right next to “Bum Fights.”

    The next step will be the thought that they could get more out of the homeless if they suspended a ham sandwich in front of the bars. After all, it’s for “the common good.”

    Dear god, the US is stuffed!

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  23. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    @Inventory2 – If the main objective of Henry & Co was to expose some second line All Blacks to the white heat of Test rugby to see if they could cope, then mission accomplished.

    But for my money, some were cruelly exposed – the ABs were slow to the breakdown and whilst Thompson is a good 6 or 8, he is certainly not fast enough to be used at 7. Messan was exposed at the back of the scrum – if the ABs were to attack from set piece, the scrum had to be solid (and not have the No8 moving around during the shunt). Slade’s poor performance will open the Cruden debate again – Slade came up short at a time when Cruden is back here leading Manawatu from the front to a record win against the (previous) premiership leaders. Toeava and Gear were absent – they got little ball to work with. The combination of Slade / Williams and Kahui lacked cohesion / patience and maturity. Finally, it was clear that the ABs lacked leadership and Mealamu wasn’t to be seen when the ABs needed to get together during a break and consolidate. I saw little evidence of any on field ‘leadership’ group. Not good.

    On the positive side, Dagg is clearly over his injury. The shortcomings within the squad have been exposed so there is time for deep thinking before the RWC Squad is named on Tuesday. Any sense of ‘arrogance’ within the team will have been removed. Several key players will return for the Brisbane game. At least that’s good news.

    But we should be worried if Carter / McCaw / Thorne / Nonu / Smith in particular get injured – our replacement options are very limited.

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  24. Sonny Blount (1,783 comments) says:

    Messam and Afoa played their way out.

    Dagg and Toeava played their way in at the expense of Guildford and Sivivatu.

    The game will be good for the squad come RWC time.

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  25. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Rumour has it the Mana and Minto are putting together a new slogan the has the powerful conitations that the “HART” brand had.

    HARL will be the new Brand.
    Stands for Halt all Racist Legislation.
    With that brand how could they not get elected.

    And note; the MM. Is that related to another MM we see here??

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  26. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee; I’m not so worried about cover for Brad Thorn; I thought that Ali Williams and Sam Whitelock were the pick of the forwards. Good point about the on-field leadership though. I think that Messam and Toeava played their ways out of the RWC squad; Toeava still struggles with his hands, and Messam just doesn’t get the go-forward needed. His ineffectiveness and that of Thompson really hamstrung Jerome Kaino.

    On the positive side, Tony Woodcock will be better for the run (but his nose might not be), Israel Dagg oozes class, and Williams and Kahui were pretty solid in defence. And the backline looked far sharper when Ellis and Weepu were paired late in the match; I think that this match will have dented Slade’s confidence significantly, and if he is selected in the RWC squad, he might find that he wears his suit more than his playing strip.

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  27. AlphaKiwi (683 comments) says:

    Why is the media ignoring Ron Paul?

    http://gawker.com/5831167/

    No wonder the Republicans are doomed.

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  28. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    The next step will be the thought that they could get more out of the homeless if they suspended a ham sandwich in front of the bars.

    That’s actually quite a good idea. It’s worth a try. Maybe we should deploy these bikes to every single unemployed person, who has to put at least 100 kw hours into the grid every week or so, lest their benefit get cut off completely. That ham sandwich deal could be part of the incentive program.

    I hope someone reading this has a word with Paula.

    Why is the media ignoring Ron Paul?

    Because while he’s got answers they’re not the right answers, AK. Not according to the media anyway.

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  29. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    @Inventory2 – given the current impasse between SBW’s manager and the NZRU, we shouldn’t rule out the possibility that Sonny Bill will be left out of the RWC Squad when its announced on Tuesday.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/5480385/Sonny-Bill-talks-hit-snag-over-sponsorship

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  30. Inventory2 (10,342 comments) says:

    I disagree Sonny; Dagg was in already as second fullback, as long as he proved his fitness. Toeava still has major ball control problems. Gear might squeak in depending on how many wings are selected, and whether Sivivatu is recovered. Jane and Guilford will be first choice. Agree about Afoa too.

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  31. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10746487

    How’s this for a crap law. Apparently you have a right to an uninterrupted 10 minutes while you decide if you want to take an evidential breath test and even if you do something yourself to interrupt it, like for example punch one of the coppers, you get off the charge.

    I mean c’mon. If the District Court can’t interpret the clear intent properly, then we’ll just have to change the statute, but why should Parliament’s time have to be wasted just because idiot judges couldn’t get the ratio decidendi right when they first started making rulings on it? Who were the idiot judges who started it, that would be good to know.

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  32. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/18/russia-china-fight-jet-technology

    Sino-Russian relations are alive and well.

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  33. backster (2,174 comments) says:

    The argument on Q & A this morning was on the partial sale of the Power Companies Holmes, Helen Kelly and Johansen in the red corner against Michelle BOAG. In general Boag won but at the end Holmes asked each of them which companies supplied them. KELLY said Contact, one of the two privately owned companies and the only one controlled by an International Corporation with a major overseas shareholding. JOHANSEN claimed he didn’t know but was so furtive I suspect he was also with Contact but ashamed to say so, Michelle was with Mercury. Apart from that Cunliffe vied with Minto for the vote of the underclass, a battle of like intellects and doubtful who had most street appeal. Cunliffe won the best dressed contest.

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  34. tom hunter (4,887 comments) says:

    Why is the media ignoring Ron Paul?

    Awwwwww. We saw this from Cha yesterday and now AlphaKiwi joins the fun. We’re also going to see a lot more of this from the left-wingers on KB as the months roll by.

    Still, if they’re simply going to roll out the one-line, one-link trolling points I won’t waste my time with anything more than cutting and pasting the following:

    2012:
    1.3% annual GDP growth (if he’s lucky). 8%+ unemployment. $1 trillion + deficit for the fourth year running. $15 trillion debt with $7 trillion more to be added as the plan, with higher taxes and increased government spending. Further credit downgrade.

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  35. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    reid, I nearly choked on reading that decision too. Sure 10 minutes is fine. What if you started to hang yourself or cut your wrists? Are the coppers supposed to watch and do nothing until the 10 has expired? If you chooses to make any requests or take any action your 10 minutes have still be uninterrupted by the officials. Any action by the offender must indicate they have finished their time of contemplation. I’m hoping the cops appeal. In the meantime I am going to consult previous cases and see how this precedent came about.

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  36. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Less us know who they were if you come across it Chris, I’d be interested.

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  37. kaya (1,360 comments) says:

    Apparently ripping off the system isn’t confined to lower socio economic dole bludgers.

    Health sector scammed for $35 million

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10746553

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  38. hj (7,031 comments) says:

    I heard Sir Paul Reeves on Chris Laidlaw; he is was disapointed with MMP as under FPP he could read the manifesto and make a choice but under MMP they go off, do deals and things come up that were never on the table. I think of MMP as being like one of those TV game shows where the winner has money to spend on what they want so while the thrust might be what they presented at election time by the time they go dancing with coalition partners the minor parties are bringing out their outlier position on things.

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  39. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    EVERYTHING YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE TREATY, BUT WERE TOO TERRIFIED OF BEING LABELLED A RACIST TO ASK —
    Part 1: Maori Ask British for Protection From Maori

    1771 — fighting with Frenchmen

    1820-30 — Maori slaughter 20-60,000 fellow Maori Northerner’s versus the Aucklanders.
    Of course Northland have never beaten them since sat the rugby)

    1831 — Waikato annihilate Taranaki, They kill one-third and enslave another third.
    The remaining third flees south to the Wellington area and they move on to slaughter the Moriori

    1835 – Declaration of Independence

    1831 – Northern chiefs ask King for protection ( You know those fellows that live in the FAR North.)

    What historians say about the Declaration of Independence

    1835 — Maori massacre Moriori in Chathams. Remember we mentioned that above.

    1837 – Call for better government.
    In 1837, inter-tribal fighting worsens in many parts of New Zealand.

    1837 – Call for better government

    With extreme reluctance, the Colonial Office sends out William Hobson, a highly ranked Officer in the British Navy.

    Hobson’s job is to negotiate a treaty with the chiefs that will give Britain sovereignty over the whole land.

    That treaty will give Britain the legal right to set up a government.

    A government will bring law, order and protection. It may investigate and settle land sales, titles and disputes.

    The government will act for all the people of New Zealand, settler and Maori alike.

    Much more detail here.

    http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-treaty-but-were-too-terrified-of-being-labelled-a-racist-to-ask-part-1-maori-ask-british-for-protection-from-maori/#comment-1604

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  40. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Anyone watching the “race” Any updates. or are the lefties running interference against the Whale and pushing Trev up the hills??

    They must be doin somthin as they are not at their computers today. Yet!!!! arghhh here they come.

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  41. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    V2

    What’s the agenda for Ansell’s potted summary of NZ history? Will we be going on to learned discussions of Good Governor Grey, Julius Vogel’s immigration schemes, the Liberal Government, NZ in WWI, the Depression, etc, etc? Any themes we should be paying attention to?

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  42. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    mm
    History that you don’t like is still history

    Modern interpretations as you believe in are propaganda to empower Maori and as such is racist

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  43. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    Here is what the leading text “Adams on Criminal Law’ has to say about the topic;

    (4)Undue interruption
    What happens during the 10-minute period can lead to disputes over whether the person has received 10 minutes of time, uninterrupted, to contemplate an election. In Butterworth v Police (2000) 18 CRNZ 122, the appellant argued that interrupting his conversation with his friend during the 10-minute period was unfair and meant he was not accorded a proper uninterrupted 10 minutes. Randerson J rejected that argument, considering that the appellant had in fact spent 2 or 3 minutes speaking to his friend, then spent the following time contemplating his position. There was no interruption of his contemplation, simply a termination of his discussion with his friend.
    Casual conversation does not of itself constitute undue pressure taking away the suspect’s opportunity to properly consider whether to request a blood sample: Baxter v MOT (1990) 6 CRNZ 445.
    In Stewart v Police 26/10/05, Heath J, HC Auckland CRI-2005-404-155 it was claimed that a Sergeant engaged the appellant in a 5 minute conversation during the 10 minute period. The appellant elected to give blood at the end of the 10 minute period. The High Court held that if a person elects to give blood he or she does not gain the benefit of the remaining period of time after communicating that election to the enforcement officer, see Police v Irwin (1990) 6 CRNZ 171. Once a blood test was requested the right to further time evaporated and it therefore made no difference whether the balance of the 10 minutes was all used in quiet contemplation of the election. In this case the appellant did have a period of time to contemplate the decision uninterrupted and there was no evidence that the appellant had been rushed to make a decision before he advised he wished to give blood and there was compliance with the 10 minute requirement. The appeal against conviction was dismissed.

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  44. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Griff

    I don’t ‘believe’ in interpretations. I read histories and think about the descriptions offered and the evidence provided. It’s not necessary to agree with what one reads. A good example, which I could recommend, is Stevan Eldred-Grigg’s ‘Great Wrong War’, which I am currently reading. Eldred-Grigg’s thesis is that the First World War was wholly avoidable for NZ, wholly unnecessary and almost wholly disastrous. I don’t agree with any of that and have many issues with his use of language and selected facts to present his argument. It is a great book, though, beautifully illustrated and with a wealth of detail. It points the way to a history of NZ in the First World War that has yet to be written.

    Just as you would argue that modern revisionist histories serve a political agenda, so it is legitimate to ask what is Ansell’s purpose behind his presentation of history. Without go all post-modern and asserting that history only tells us about the historian, there is a nub of truth there about what facts and arguments a writer deploys and what motives might be in play.

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  45. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Re the drink driving matter, the law is pretty clear that 10 minutes must be allowed. The Courts say, and have said for some years, that it must be uninterrupted. Thousands of people every year are tested and given their 10 minutes and it causes the police no problem at all- in fact it gives the officer a chance to do the paperwork. If the period is interrupted then most cops will start the time again. The times are recorded on the relevant form and it is very easy for anybody reading it to see whether the 10 minutes has been given or not.

    This is a pretty basic error by the testing officer, not a problem with the law. Of course, like always, an obviously guilty policeman, one who has probably told many people charged with offences to own up and take their medicine, doesn’t know how to apply the word ‘guilty’ to his own conduct. Typical.

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  46. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    This is a great analysis of the Craig Thomson affair in Australia:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwFql6oql_s&feature=player_embedded

    Background for those unaware:
    “Mr Thomson, the Labor member for Dobell on the New South Wales central coast, was accused in Federal Parliament and in Fairfax newspapers of using a union credit card to pay for prostitutes and for his election campaign.

    However, he said it was not him that used the card for prostitutes. He said another man – who he would not name – had paid money back to the union.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-16/gillard-defends-craig-thomson-over-escort-scandal/2842042

    And the Labor government has so far paid at least $90,000 for his legal fees to keep him from going bankrupt – which would probably bring down the Labor government as they only hold power by 1 seat.

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  47. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    MM. History is history no matter how you or others want to change it and develop it to fit your current theory. History wasn’t recorded for you to fuck with it.

    Why can’t you just accept it for what it is. If you did then you could maybe see the problem here.
    Why NZ is poor and why so many are leaving what should be the best place in the world to live.
    Analyzing history in your modern mind frame is patently wrong and will continue to lead you to the wrong answers.

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  48. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Re the drink driving matter, the law is pretty clear that 10 minutes must be allowed. The Courts say, and have said for some years, that it must be uninterrupted.

    FE if the law says the offender themselves can interrupt the 10 minutes and that’s OK, it’s a really stupid law.

    That’s the point.

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  49. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    This is the opening lines of the treaty according to Auckland city council http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/CnlSer/libs/research/treatyofwaitangi.asp

    The Treaty of Waitangi however, must be seen in the context of events that happened over a number of years before 1840 to best understand Maori/ Pakeha relations at this time and to comprehend why an agreement such as this would be made between Maori chiefs and the British crown.

    1831 Aotearoa: Maori Chiefs were becoming increasingly concerned at lawlessness by sailors, escaped convicts and adventurers from New South Wales. The fear of amoral sailors had augmented following the Elizabeth affair.

    As Maori were busy killing each other at the time to the tune of at least 25% of their population. Don’t you think it would have more importance than a few minor skirmishes by settlers? In the official histories that we are feed it does not

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  50. Christopher Thomson (376 comments) says:

    During the 10 minute period Mr Mead was supposed to be granted to think about the situation, he asked and was allowed to call his boss.

    So from now on during that 10 minutes keep coming up with spurious requests and as the 10 minutes resets eventually one would be sober?

    Would asking to do something – go to the toilet maybe – mean you can be like a Springbok forward and run down the clock?

    What about Butterworth where the offender was talking to a friend during the 10 minutes?

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  51. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Chris, the rate of clearing alcohol from blood is relatively slow, and in most situations the alcohol in the person’s system continues to increase for some time after they finish drinking. I don’t know the situation in this case, but for most people asking my advice I would not advise to choose a blood test as it generally takes about 45 minutes to an hour for the medical person to come in to the testing suite to take blood (unless they are already present, in which case even then it still can take a while). The exception is if the blood content could somehow be lower than for breath (which can happen but is unusual).

    Your hypothesis is correct re the constant interruptions, but the police are under no obligation to let him call anyone other than a lawyer. I cannot imagine why they let him call his boss at all.

    Your point about Butterworth is a good one. I wonder if it wasn’t applied because his boss is a police officer? He may have been on duty, and therefore would interrupt the 10 mins, but that is merely speculation. Any ideas?

    Reid, there are plenty of bad, or badly written, laws, but we still must follow them. This was a simple error by an officer who should have known better. Moreover, it is the alleged offenders 10 minutes, he can do what he wants with it. But the Police cannot.

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  52. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    F E Smith points out:

    This is a pretty basic error by the testing officer, not a problem with the law. Of course, like always, an obviously guilty policeman, one who has probably told many people charged with offences to own up and take their medicine, doesn’t know how to apply the word ‘guilty’ to his own conduct. Typical.

    Oh come on now FE, this is NZ, where one single outlier – e.g. the contemptible Weatherstone – can see the law changed to remove the protection of a defence which had been, and would have probably continued to be, relied upon by a great many people perfectly entitled to do so.

    So it stands to reason, one allegedly (but that in itself is an irritating distinction) drunk driver gaming the system is more than enough justification to wreak havoc upon the law.

    We don’t go in for reasoned contemplation and comparison against all the hundreds, or even thousands, of cases that have passed through the system without causing concern. We hurl abuse at judges for being “out of touch”, clamour for the law to be changed, and tuck ourselves in bed at night comforted by the belief our police are free of error and bias.

    We’re happy to let a mediocre suburban conveyancer overturn centuries of carefully wrought precedent, and have him over-rule and criticise jurists with vastly more legal experience than he, all on a whim and a poll.

    It’s inconvenient I know, but rest assured that it won’t be long before we reach that Nirvana so many seek, in which accusation by a fine, upstanding police officer is sufficient evidence of guilt. We can then throw away the law books and replace them with Kafka, who is becoming a far superior a guide to the way things are done in NZ.

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  53. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Rex, I think if you look at the changes made in the UK under Labour you will see what Simon Power wants to accomplish in NZ. His is a very authoritarian, pro-prosecution outlook.

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  54. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    my comment above had one other thing that did not come up-

    -Applauds Rex’s comment-

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  55. Nookin (3,352 comments) says:

    Except, Rex that Power is not intervening from a jurisprudential perspective but from a populist perspective. He is not saying that the judges are wrong. He is saying that those baying for blood want to law to say something else. You don’t need to be a lawyer to be a populist.

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  56. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Selection of Kohler’s graphs (he’s an Aussie).

    The history of US govt spending
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110804

    The US debt ceiling + see third one down – Washington we have a problem
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110726

    The Global Public Debt Problem
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110719#05:09PM

    Best performer
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110713#11:53AM

    Searching for a bottom
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110708#01:22PM

    US housing doesn’t matter anymore – imagine if that happened here
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110628#8:19AM

    What the professionals say about QE3
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110615#9:25AM

    A golden bubble, or not
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110607#9:57AM

    The real reason for the death of the US recovery
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110602#01:45PM

    Bank exposure to PIIGS debt
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110524#8:52AM

    Where those profits really come from – yeah McKinsey, BCG etc really did give all those US corporations good advice, just ask the US consumer…
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110518#8:36AM

    Where do banks make their money?
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110513#8:05AM

    Commodities and the Aussie/US cross – important indicator for China
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110421#02:07PM

    When the Fed stops, who will buy US bonds?
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110303#02:20PM

    Different ways of up – why Fonterra is doing very nicely right now
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110221#02:20PM

    Mining profits – the China effect (go Aussie)
    http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf/webkohlersgraphs?readform&publicationDate=20110209#02:20PM

    Yes, I am a bit bored, anyone heard the race result yet?

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  57. AlphaKiwi (683 comments) says:

    @ tom hunter

    Trolling? How was that trolling? I just thought it was an interesting fact about the media.
    BTW, don’t label me left wing. That’s the last thing I am. Would you like it if I called you a kiddy fiddler? I doubt it.

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  58. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Viking 2

    ‘History is history no matter how you or others want to change it and develop it to fit your current theory.’

    Sorry, I can’t really accept that. A view of history as nothing but the facts is very limiting. At the other end of the spectrum was have history as nothing more than the literary effort of the historian. As with many things, the ‘truth’ is somewhere in the middle and capable of being revisited and reinterpreted time and again.

    ‘Analyzing history in your modern mind frame is patently wrong and will continue to lead you to the wrong answers.’ This leads me inevitably to wonder whether there is a ‘traditional’ or ‘conservative’ mind frame to juxtapose with ‘modern’ interpretations. No modern historian would confidently assert that he or she has produced the whole truth. At best, evidence and argument will present the past in a way that has meaning for the reader. The debate is ongoing, the conversation endless. It brings to mind Zhou Enlai’s reputed comment when asked about the impact of the French Revolution – “It is too soon to tell”.

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  59. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Something funny for a lazy Sunday afternoon. Epic fail:

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  60. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @Nookin:

    Good point re populists… I worked for one for several years. Although come to think of it, he was a lawyer.

    Power may not be criticising the judge in this instance, but he clearly skipped the law school lecture on separation of powers as he was arrogant and condescending to the Chief Justice when she had the temerity to offer an opinion on sentencing (last year, IIRC).

    The role of Minister of Justice is not to accede to the will of the baying mob or, worse still, the petulant policeman. It’s especially sad that he feels the need to do so when those chances are not in any peril – it removes all doubt that he is, in fact, a desperate populist and confirms that he is instead a nasty little authoritarian.

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  61. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

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  62. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    History is written by the victors.
    Winston Churchill

    History is, strictly speaking, the study of questions; the study of answers belongs to anthropology and sociology.
    W. H. Auden

    History is only the register of crimes and misfortunes.
    Voltaire

    World history is a court of judgment.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

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  63. AlphaKiwi (683 comments) says:

    History would be judged very differently if the Nazis and Japanese had won.

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  64. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    have history as nothing more than the literary effort of the historian. As with many things, the ‘truth’ is somewhere in the middle and capable of being revisited and reinterpreted time and again.

    As you do, as you do.
    If the history is complicated and there are a number of history reports about an time involving hordes of people then of course but in this case the numbers are small, the time frame short and limited written observations that were written at the time. To come along 150 years later and collect up everything written since by people who were not even alive till half a century and more later and then dispute that history of the time smacks of rewriting history as the current author see’s it in his world view. Different from the person who wrote the history at the time in their world view.

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  65. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    anyway Who won the race or did they both collapse half way through.

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  66. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Feminist perspective:

    History is His Story

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  67. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    The history is deduced from the writings of the time. My interpretations are from reading these historic documents. Not from reading history books but by reading the history. It is obvious from reading the documents that the impact on Maori was not as purported in the modern interpretations. Which strongly support a different view of the treaty. The “principles” of the treaty are widely wide of the truth to the benefit of Maori not New Zealand as a whole. Apartheid and racist propaganda is taken as main stream History in this country.
    The next biggest myth about the times is the cannibal nature of Maori it is glossed over all but denied. When educated New Zealanders tell me that Maori only practiced cannibalism as a ritual to take on the mana of chiefs felled in battle I have to laugh. The eating of slaves woman and children was a widely held practice at this time.

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  68. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    V2

    Been following the “twitter” screen on Motella. They record a win by the Duck.

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  69. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Yep, the only protein available to them. No other mammals in NZ. Only birds, fish and sea animals.
    No meat as we know it at all.

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  70. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Aussies go to War.

    The Green War on our Primary Industries triggers the Convoys of No Confidence
    http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uplo … idence.pdf

    This battle against a tax on the gas-of-life (carbon dioxide) is approaching a climax.

    The Greens now control the Australian Parliaments – neither the ALP nor the Coalition can pass legislation without support from the Greens and their patsy independents.

    For years now the Greens have waged war on our primary industries – mining, grazing, farming, forestry and fishing.

    This war reached a climax recently with their unprincipled attacks on two industries – coal and cattle. Bob Brown wants to close all Australian coal mines and coal fired power stations and other greens want to stop all live cattle exports. That infamous economist, Ross Garnaut, seems to think we should eliminate our cattle and sheep and farm kangaroos instead. (Naturally the surplus cattle and sheep will all be euthanized humanely.)

    Every war is triggered by one dramatic event and the overnight banning of live cattle exports from Australia to its near neighbour Indonesia was the trigger for action across Northern Australia. The bush is now like an agitated meat-ants’ nest.

    Thus the proposal by one NT truckie, Mick Pattel, to organise a Protest convoy to Canberra has escalated into 11 convoys from all parts of Australia.

    Already the first convoy is heading south. For up-to-date details of all convoys see:
    http://justgroundsonline.com/

    If you can help or participate see this link:
    http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22CUHCJADW4/

    http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=702&sid=0e125fc664d8842ef36dc95e8e6e1b15&p=36971#p36971

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  71. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    V2

    Even in a country like NZ, where the written record is comparatively young and more limited we have endless material for ongoing historical disputes and revision. That’s not a bad thing. There are many areas of controversy where I doubt there would ever be much consensus on the ‘right’ version. With that in mind, I always like to consider the experience and motivations of the writer.

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  72. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls-men-jailed

    How come UK judges are allowed to step outside the normal sentencing guidelines for a one-off special event and if it’s affirmed on appeal which it probably will be, what does that then mean for legitimate protests organised via social media, especially when those protests are aimed at an extremely contentious govt policy?

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  73. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Cultural enrichment #257:
    Posted on August 21, 2011 by KG

    ‘..Of the 111 charged with rape in Oslo last year, 72 were of non-western ethnic origin, 25 are classified as Norwegian or western and 14 are listed as unknown.

    Nine out of ten cases do not make it to prosecution, most of them because police do not believe the evidence is sufficient to reach a conviction. Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen of Oslo’s Vice, Robbery and Violent crime division says the statistics are surprising — the rising number of rape cases and the link to ethnic background are both clear trends. But Larsen does not want to speculate on the reasons behind the worrying developments. While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo’s population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background…’ source
    Rape as a weapon in the war against the West–which is absolutely consistent with islamic doctrine.

    http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/?p=8156

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  74. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10746414

    When are “people” a.k.a. the MSM going to latch onto the fact that money is a commodity just like oil and just like oil, start complaining that when its cheap overseas how come it isn’t cheap here?

    This would do a significant service to the economy and they aren’t currently doing this, why?

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  75. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Maori Party gets into Acting.
    Taking a lesson from the Greens book no doubt. Suppose KcHughes will front up for them now.

    Maori Party choose candidate to stand against Harawira

    Sunday, 21, Aug, 2011 8:12AM

    The Maori Party has chosen an actor and broadcaster to stand against Hone Harawira in Te Tai Tokerau.

    Waihoroi Shortland will face off against the firebrand MP.

    He’s a former presenter of the current affairs show Te Karere.

    He also acted in Rain of the Children and Boy, and won Best Actor for playing Shylock in the Maori Merchant of Venice.

    Party president Pem Bird says Mr Shortland is an outstanding candidate who’s driven by a passion for Te Tai Tokerau, and a calling to represent his people.

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  76. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Griff

    I don’t know if you have read ‘This Horrid Practice’ by Paul Moon. It is , in my view, an excellent account of what is actually known about cannibalism in NZ. It has been attacked – I think there was a Listener article by an academic whose name I can’t recall – on the basis that ‘cannibalism’ is a purely western construct. That’s all part and parcel of debate. We can look at the arguments and the sources on which they are based and make up our own minds.

    Actually, here is the Listener piece:
    http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/close-to-the-bones/

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  77. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Of course it a western construct. The Maori’s called it meat hunting. :lol: 8O

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  78. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Reid, re your 4.35pm comment- it is the violence that is the determining factor, not the medium used to organise. Something that the UK political establishment is ignoring in their calls to place governmental controls on twitter, facebook, bbm et al.

    Although the UK does have an appalling approach to policing protests, the riot sentencings are based on good old principles established over many centuries- participate in riots, get the book thrown at you. They used to hang the ringleaders, even if nobody died…

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  79. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    When do cannibals leave the table?
    When everyone’s eaten.

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  80. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    I have read repeated accounts of cannibalism in early New Zealand enough to convince me that it was widespread and practiced for food not mana.
    As I said I find far more value in the accounts of the time than most modern history. I realize that each commentator had their own barrow to push. That is relatively easy to divine. The modern “spin”History from a left dominated Intelligentsia has warped the truth for the benefit of their world view. You repeatedly denigrate the history put forward by Ansell myself and others as not valid and as such show your biases in this debate.

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  81. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Griff

    I only point out facts that I think can be shown to be wrong or interpretations with which I disagree. Ansell seems to me to have a fairly obvious political motive in his blog posts, although I don’t really see a logical connection between decrying Maori savagery of 200 years ago helps his crusade against the so-called Maorification of everything.

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  82. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Because the Maorification is transferring these attitudes and reverting to a stone age type of culture which is paid for on the basis of the look what the whiteman did to us. In so doing they are attempting to own and control all of NZ including all the asset’s and income from them. Something that they clearly did not do prior to the Treaty.

    We would not object if they had a history of education, science and achievement and ownership but they don’t.
    Its resisting racial control of NZ by that group.

    10% ruling the rest.

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  83. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    Greens back to 6%.

    Excellent – maybe the population is slowly awakening to their deceit, lies and outright crap….. :P

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  84. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    The view point that the treaty was sighed to protect Maori from Europeans is central to the treaty industry it is the main thrust of the “principles” standpoint. If the history teaches that this is incorrect and the Maori signed for protection from them self’s this of course totally changes the “principles” of the treaty.

    Maorification is a apartheid system that states Maori are different from the rest of us and need special privileges this is racism and as such should not be tolerated in our society.

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  85. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Griff

    I don’t think the argument is quite so straightforward. The principles introduced in Treaty jurisprudence in the 1980s probably owe more to modern political and legal constructs than to the historical events of 1840. Apart from that, I don’t think it can be said that Maori sought the Treaty to gain protection from themselves. While but that’s certainly an argument that could be advanced, I don’t think it fits the evidence very well.

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  86. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    why not I can see no evidence for any other view point A group of tribes that had such destructive wars over the preceding forty years signed a treaty with a foreign power to enforce a system of law on them. The settlers relied on the local Maori for protection from other Maori. most Maori at this time were well armed experienced fighters or dead. This is not the history we are taught. We are repeatedly told the spin that Maori signed as protection from the settlers.

    The official line is
    1831 Aotearoa: Maori Chiefs were becoming increasingly concerned at lawlessness by sailors, escaped convicts and adventurers

    That Maori were and had been killing and eating each other for the last 30 years and would continue to do so in till British law was enforced is conveniently forgotten. The official line is a distortion of a gross magnitude.

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  87. reid (16,491 comments) says:

    They used to hang the ringleaders [of riots], even if nobody died…

    Well, we’ve certainly lost our way, haven’t we?

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  88. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Griff

    Firstly, I don’t think you can call fairly well settled scholarly opinion the ‘official line’.

    The background to the Treaty is pretty much found in English concerns to avoid uncontrolled settlement. The idea that Maori were seeking British protection is a bit far-fetched. At this stage the Musket Wars and associated migration were pretty much finished. Maori were seeking European settlers for the associated trade opportunities. Most tribes seemed to be fairly confident of their abilities to maintain themselves. In some areas, the Hutt Valley is an example, Maori saw European settlers as possible allies against their neighbours.

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  89. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Nah, reid, won’t agree with you there. They also used to hang you if you stole something worth more than 11 shillings (or perhaps it was 5 shillings), sometimes as young as 12 year old kids. That was in the 19th century, so not too long ago. Even though transportation led to a lot of reprieves, I really would prefer not to go back to those times.

    Binning them is much the better idea.

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  90. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    I see a official line that is at odds to history the English did not want to take on New Zealand they did to deny it from the French and Americans
    You have just contradicted yourself
    You have stated that the musket wars were over and then stated that they were not you have also stated facts that are incoherent to the official line as in 1 Maori could look after them self’s 2 Maori wanted more settlement
    The major battles had been fought yes but Maori were still forced to have arms ready to fight off raids and still lived in or near fortified pa
    The white renegades in the interior relied on the benevolence of local Maori if they did not have this they were soon overpowered and slaughtered. The “hell hole” that was the bay of islands was condoned by Maori

    The money we have spent on the treaty industry has had little benefit for those Maori most in need. It has only amplified the problem, increased the culture of entailment and alienation of the poorest of Maori. we can not afford to continue along the road to apartheid it will not benefit Maori or NewZealanders in the long term.

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  91. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    One day, the Lord decided to make a companion for Adam. He summoned St. Peter and told him of his decision. He told St. Peter that he wanted to make a being who was similar to man, yet was different, and could offer him comfort, companionship and pleasure. The Lord said he would call this being a woman.
    So St. Peter went about creating this being which was similar to man yet was different in ways that would be appealing and could provide physical pleasure to man. When St. Peter had finished creating this being who could now be called woman he summoned The Lord.
    “Ah, St. Peter, once again you have done an excellent job,” said The Lord.
    “Thank You, Great One,” replied St. Peter. “I am now ready to provide the brain, nerve endings and senses to the being, this .. woman. I require your assistance on this matter, Lord.”
    “You shall make her brain, slightly smaller, yet more intuitive, more feeling, more compassionate, and more adaptable than man’s,” said The Lord.
    “The nerve endings,” said St. Peter. “How many will I put in her hands?”
    “How many did we put in Adam? asked The Lord.
    “Two hundred, my Lord,” replied St. Peter.
    “Then we shall do the same for this woman,” said The Lord.
    “And how many nerve endings shall we put in her feet?” inquired St. Peter.
    “How many did we put in Adam?” asked The Lord.
    “Seventy five, my Lord,” replied St. Peter.
    “Ah yes, these beings are constantly on their feet, so they benefit from having less nerve endings there. Do the same for woman,” said the Lord.
    “How many nerve endings should we put in woman’s genitals?” inquired St. Peter.
    “How many did we put in Adam?” asked The Lord.
    “Four hundred and twenty, my Lord,” replied St. Peter. “Of course, we did want Adam to have a means of receiving extra pleasure in his life, didn’t we? Do the same for woman,” said The Lord.
    “Yes, my Lord,” said St. Peter.
    “No, wait,” said The Lord. “Screw it, give her ten thousand! I want her to scream my name!”
    Well……. now you know!

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  92. Steve (4,564 comments) says:

    Ancient Wisdom says that when you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
    However, in some organisations often many other strategies are tried, including the following:
    1)Changing riders
    2)Buying a stronger whip
    3)Falling back on: “This is the way we’ve always ridden”
    4)Appointing a committee to study the horse
    5)Arranging a visit to other sites to see how they ride dead horses
    6)Increasing the standards for riding dead horses
    7)Appointing a group to revive the dead horse
    8)Create a training session to improve riding skills
    9)Comparing the state of dead horses in today’s environment
    10) Changing the requirements so that the horse no longer meets the criterion of the dead
    11) Hiring an external consultant to show how a dead horse can be ridden
    12) Harnessing several dead horses together to increase speed
    13) Increasing funding to improve the horse’s performance
    14) Declaring that no horse is too dead to beat
    15) Doing a study to see if outsourcing will reduce the cost of riding a dead horse
    16) Buying a computer program to enhance dead horse performance
    17) Declaring a dead horse less costly than a live one
    18) Forming a workgroup to find uses for dead horses
    19) Changing performance requirements for the horse
    20) Promoting the dead horse to a supervisory position

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  93. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    The Famous Riddle Of Two Doors:

    There are two doors. You have to pick one door. One door leads to great happiness, the other leads to great suffering. But you don’t know which door is which.

    However, there is a person guarding each door. One of them always tells the truth, but one of them always lies. But, you don’t know which is which.

    You can only ask one question. What question should you ask in order to determine which door leads to great happiness?

    These two people can’t be moved. You must ask a question.

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  94. Steve (4,564 comments) says:

    Ask one of the guards ‘Which door leads to great happiness’

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  95. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Wasn’t this one in The Labyrinth? You ask one of the guards what the other guard would tell you to do?

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  96. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    A train hits a bus load of school girls and they all perish. They are all in heaven trying to enter the pearly gates past St Patrick.
    St Patrick asks first girl, “Karen, have you ever had any contact with a penis?”
    She giggles and shyly replies, “Well I once touched the head of one with the tip of my finger.
    St Patrick says, “OK, dip the tip of your finger in The Holy Water and pass through the gate.”
    St Patrick asks the next girl the same question, “Karina have you ever had any contact with a penis?”
    The girl is a little reluctant but replies “Well once I fondled and stroked one.”
    St Patrick says “OK, dip your whole hand in The Holy Water and pass through the gate.”
    All of a sudden there is a lot of commotion in the line of girls. One girl is pushing her way to the front of the line. When she reaches the front of the line, St Patrick says “Susan! What seems to be the rush?”
    The girl replies “If I’m going to have to gargle that Holy Water, I want to do it before Jackie sticks her arse in it.”

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  97. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    Could be to ask one of them “do both doors lead to great happiness?”

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  98. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Well done Mike.

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  99. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Nasska and Steve, yes, but you still won’t know which door. If you ask one guard, “which door will the other guard say is the path to happiness?”, if he lies he will tell you the wrong door, but if he tells the truth, then its also the wrong door, so you choose the other door.

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  100. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    At one point during a game, the coach called one of his 7- year-old soccer players aside and asked, “Do you understand what cooperation is?
    What a team is?” The little boy nodded in the affirmative.

    “Do you understand that what matters is not whether we win or lose but we act together as a team?” The little boy nodded yes.

    “So,” the coach continued, “I’m sure you know, when a foul is called, you shouldn’t argue, curse, attack the referee, or call him a shit-head.
    Do you understand all that?” Again the little boy nodded.

    He continued, “And when I take you out of the game so another boy gets a chance to play, it’s not good sportsmanship to call your coach ‘a dumb arsehole’ is it?’ Again the little boy nodded.

    “Good,” said the coach. “Now go over there and explain all that to your mother.”

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  101. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Little Johnny likes to gamble.
    One day his dad gets a new job so his family has to move to a new city.
    Johnny’s daddy thinks, “I’ll get a head start on Johnny’s gambling.”

    So he calls the teacher and says, “My son Johnny will be starting your class tomorrow but he likes to gamble so you’ll have to keep an eye on him.”
    The teacher says OK, she can handle it.

    The next day Johnny walks into class and hands the teacher an apple and says, “Hi, my name is Johnny.”
    She says yes I know who you are.
    Johnny smiles and says, “I bet you ten dollars you’ve got a mole on your butt.”
    The teacher thinks that she will break his little gambling problem so she takes him up on the bet.
    She pulls her pants down and shows him her butt and there was no mole.

    That afternoon, Johnny goes home and tells his dad that he lost ten dollars to the teacher and why.
    So his dad calls the teacher and says, “Johnny said that he bet you that you had a mole on your butt and he lost.”
    The teacher says, “Yeah, and I think I broke his gambling problem.”
    Johnny’s dad laughs and says, “No you didn’t, he bet me a hundred dollars this morning that he’d see your ass before the day was over.”

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  102. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Little Johnny opened the door to a salesman, the salesman asks “can I see your dad please?” Johnny replies
    “no he’s in the shower”
    “well, can I see your mother then?”
    “she’s in the shower too.”
    “oh, do you think they will be out soon?”
    “doubt it, when my dad asked me for the Vaseline I gave him Superglue.”

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  103. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    There are 3 Kiwis in a bar, the 1st one walks up to an Aussie and says, “John Eales is gay.”
    The Aussie says, “yeah thats nice.”
    The 2nd one walks up to him and says, “John Eales roots sheep.”
    The Aussie replies, “yeah thats nice.”
    At last the 3rd one walks up to him and says, “John Eales is a kiwi.”
    The Aussie turns around and says, “yeah I think that’s what your friends were trying to tell me.”

    Q. What do you call 15 guys sitting around the T.V watching the Rugby World Cup final?
    A. The All Blacks

    A lion in the zoo sitting there licking it’s hole.
    A visitor says, “He doesn’t look very vicious to me.”
    “Well he is.” Says the zoo keeper, “he just grabbed a aussie, pulled him through the fence and ate him all up.”
    “Is that right?” says the visitor, “he seems pretty casual, why is he licking his arse?”
    The zoo keeper replies, “He’s trying to get the horrible taste out of his mouth.”

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  104. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Little Johnny comes home from school with a note from his teacher, indicating that “Johnny seems to be having some difficulty with the differences between boys and girls,” and would his Nanny, “Please sit down and have a talk with Johnny about this.”
    So Johnny’s Nanny takes him quietly, by the hand, upstairs to her bedroom, and closes the door.
    First, Johnny, I want you to take off my blouse…
    so he unbuttons her blouse and takes it off.
    Ok, now take off my skirt…
    and he takes off her skirt.
    Now take off my bra…
    which he does.
    And now, Johnny, please take off my panties.
    and when Johnny finishes removing those, she says,
    “Johnny, PLEASE don’t wear any of my clothes to school any more!”

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  105. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    A couple months back there was this trial in the Northern Territory courts. A man was being tried for fornicating with a sheep, since that’s illegal an’ all. Anyway, the key witness was an old fella who was walking along the highway by the farm where the sheep was raised. The prosecutor asked the witness what he saw:
    ‘Well, I was walkin’ along, and saw this sheep just’a eatin’ grass. And then this fella walks up from behind the sheep, real quiet-like.’
    ‘And then what?’ asked the prosecutor.
    ‘Then he unbuckled his belt, and pulled the sheep close.’
    ‘And what happened after that?’
    ‘Well,’ said the witness, ‘they sorta shook for a couple of minutes. THEN, afterwards, the sheep turned around… an’ licked him!’
    Just then one of the members of the jury leaned over to the jury member next to him and said, ‘You know .. a good sheep’ll do that.’

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  106. Scott Chris (6,149 comments) says:

    Griff says:

    Q. What do you call 15 guys sitting around the T.V watching the Rugby World Cup final?
    A. The All Blacks

    Oh ye of little faith.

    Still, if there’s a 90 % chance of our winning the quarter-final, 70% chance of winning a semi and 65% chance of winning a final, then there’s still only a 41% chance that we will win the whole thing. Doesn’t mean we aren’t the best team, just that knockout tournaments are a bit of a lottery.

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  107. Griff (7,791 comments) says:

    15 Reasons to live in Auckland ….

    1. Satan worshipping residents of Auckland are spared unnecessary anguish and discomfort when they die because the
    transition to hell is hardly noticeable.
    2. Auckland has fewer syllables than Wellington so that Aucklanders can spell it.
    3. People who can’t get in to Wellington have to have somewhere to live.
    4. Economies of scale dictate that it is economically optimal for all pretentious posers with annoying inflections and stupid
    haircuts to be in the same place.
    5. Auckland has such a wide variety of social, economic and cultural groupings that you can fit in no matter what kind of dork you are.
    6. Aucklanders do lots of quaint self affirming things like calling their league team the “Warriors” and giving their otherwise
    staid lives a hint of danger by referring to Mt Eden, Mt Wellington,and Mt Hobson as “volcanoes” even though they have been extinct for 3 million years.
    7. Auckland’s town planners thoughtfully laid out Auckland over a large area so that when you are in Auckland the statistical
    chances of running into an Aucklander are as low as possible.
    8. Believing that City Life is a quality New Zealand drama and that Shortland Street is a showcase for up and coming New Zealand talent doesn’t seem so ridiculous when everyone else thinks so too.
    9. The Auckland Rugby Union names it Super 12 team after a colour just in case they had any deaf supporters.
    10. Auckland is the nation’s Prozac. People who don’t live in Auckland use that fact to ward off depression.
    11. Auckland is vital to New Zealand’s defence against alien invasion. Invading space monsters will go straight to our largest
    urban centre thinking it is actually important in some way. While the aliens waste their time assaulting our decoy the rest of us will have time to organise a counter strike. This aspect of Auckland has taken on added significance since the discovery of life on Mars.
    12. People form Kaitaia need somewhere to go for petrol on their way to Wellington.
    13. Aucklanders have recovered from their feelings of phallic inadequacy by erecting a 40 storey pole with a knob on top in the middle of the city.
    14. Auckland fulfils an important role in Maori mythology Maori legend has it that the North Island is the fish of Maui. Wellington is the head and mouth of Maui’s fish, New Plymouth and Gisborne are its fins and Auckland is its arsehole.

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